Long Island Serial Killer Part 1

Summary

True Crime All The Time Episode 500: Long Island Serial Killer Part 1 Date: May 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this milestone 500th episode, hosts Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (“Gibby”) begin a special four-part series on the infamous Long Island Serial Killer case, also known as the Gilgo Beach murders. The duo dives deep into how an investigation into one missing woman, Shannon Gilbert, unfolded into the discovery of multiple murder victims—an event that exposed one of the largest and most publicized serial murder cases in the US. In classic TCATT fashion, the hosts balance their serious, detail-oriented approach to true crime with their signature camaraderie and banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of the Case and Initial Discovery

• Shannon Gilbert’s Disappearance

  • On May 1, 2010, 23-year-old Shannon Gilbert, an aspiring actress and Craigslist escort from New Jersey, called 911 in a panic, stating, “there’s somebody after me… these people are trying to kill me,” (09:32).
  • Despite her frantic call, police could not pinpoint her location, and by the time they arrived, Shannon had vanished.
  • Initial searches for Shannon led to the shocking discovery of another missing woman in December 2010, and, soon after, three more women—later known as the "Gilgo Four"—were found nearby (05:02–05:56).

• Quote:

  • Mike Ferguson: “The case of one missing woman led the police to multiple bodies on the south shore of Long Island.” (05:02)

2. How the Investigation Unfolded

• Serial Killer Fears & Public Concern

  • The grim discoveries prompted both public fear and investigative urgency: “If you’re investigators, you’re concerned... If you’re the public... who’s next?... Is he living right next door to me?” (07:31)
  • Notably, a female toddler and her mother were among the victims, indicating the killer’s broad targeting and deepening the community’s fear.

• Connections to Prior Cases

  • Some victims’ remains dated as far back as 1996, reflecting a potentially long-active killer (07:47).
  • Suffolk County Police referred to this as “one of the most consequential homicide investigations in the history of Long Island.” (07:47)

• Breakthrough & Modern Forensics

  • In 2022, law enforcement identified Rex Heuerman, an architect, as the alleged Long Island Serial Killer, based on DNA, cell phone data, and further evidence (07:47).
  • The development was likened to the unmasking of other infamous figures, such as the Golden State Killer: “It kind of exploded the true crime world.” (08:42)

3. Deep Dives into Victims’ Stories

• The Gilgo Four: Maureen Brainard-Barnes, Melissa Barthelemy, Megan Waterman, Amber Costello

  • All worked as online escorts, were young (early 20s), petite (most around 5ft and 100 lbs), and were last seen alive after arranging meetings via Craigslist (09:09, 58:50–60:13).
  • Notable Quotes & Moments:
    • Mike Gibson: “I mean, I think he probably had to make them feel comfortable for them to do some of these things.” (63:09)
    • Mike Ferguson: “It’s a scary thought... on an online ad, it probably has all of that—height, weight, eye color.” (60:14)
  • Their bodies were found together, wrapped in burlap and left close to Ocean Parkway, indicating a “dumping ground.” (35:48–37:46)
    • “Not far apart from each other. Not far off the road.” (37:43)

• Shannon Gilbert’s Final Hours

  • The retelling of her last night, her frantic attempts to find help, and the failure of police to reach her in time, are described in vivid, harrowing detail (11:27–13:54).
  • The confusion, her mental health background, and the possibility of drug use or a psychotic break are weighed:
    • “She sounds not very coherent, not very rational.” – quoting former Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone (19:12)

• Victimization of Sex Workers

  • The episode discusses how sex workers were, and often are, dismissed or deprioritized by law enforcement, increasing their vulnerability to predation (22:56–26:41; 46:51).
    • “Historically, police used to not really put in the effort for sex workers as… somebody else… that’s part of the community.” (26:08)

4. Early Suspects & Odd Local Figures

• Joseph Brewer (Client), Michael Pack (Driver), and Dr. C. Peter Hackett (Retired Doctor)
  • Both Brewer and Pack were investigated and cleared via polygraph; Pack’s remark, “You shouldn't have done that” (regarding calling the police), is dissected for possible meanings (28:52–29:25).
  • Dr. Hackett’s contradictory accounts and phone call to Shannon’s mother are highlighted, raising questions about his involvement (30:22–33:02). Hackett was ultimately not considered a suspect, though labeled an “exaggerator” who liked to involve himself in cases (34:22).

5. Killer Profile & Methods

• Psychology and Tactics
  • Authorities sketched an offender who specifically targeted petite escorts via detailed online ads, “scroll[ing] through online ads on Craigslist to find his preferred victim type.” (59:19)
  • His knowledge of investigative techniques included making calls from crowded locations, using burner phones, and avoiding being easily traced (44:12; 51:54).
  • The killer’s sadism is illuminated by his taunting and threatening phone calls to victims’ families, particularly to Melissa Barthelemy’s 15-year-old sister, Amanda (48:30–53:24).
    • “Do you know what I did to your sister? Well, I killed Melissa.” (52:41)
    • “Sexually explicit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda.” (49:41)

6. Policing Failures and Family Determination

• Accounts of police suggesting missing women “just ran away” or did not “care about their kids” (44:12; 46:51), with families left to organize their own searches.
• Attorney Steve Cohen relayed: “She’s a hooker… We’re not going to assign a detective to this.” (47:14)

7. Other Notable Moments

• Banter and Reflective Commentary
  • The hosts directly explore and question their own sympathies, attitudes about trust and dangers in contemporary society, particularly for vulnerable people (16:33–17:34).
  • Mike Ferguson, on trusting a person at your door: “Can I completely [trust them]? And I think the answer is no, not today.” (17:21)
• Meta and Milestone Reflection
  • The hosts take a moment to celebrate their 500th episode milestone, expressing surprise at their longevity and podcast growth (04:37–05:01).

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 05:02 | Ferguson | “The case of one missing woman led the police to multiple bodies on the south shore of Long Island.” | | 07:31 | Ferguson | “If you're investigators, you're concerned… If you're the public… who's next?” | | 13:00 | Ferguson | “It's such a strange kind of interaction. Right. Who is she afraid of? Who is she saying are these people…” | | 19:12 | Dominic Verone (quoted) | “She sounds not very coherent, not very rational.” | | 26:08 | Gibson | “Historically, police used to not really put in the effort for sex workers…” | | 34:22 | Verone, via Ferguson | “He’s an individual who likes to get involved. Some call him a storyteller, an exaggerator.” | | 37:43 | Gibson | “Not far apart from each other. Not far off the road.” | | 49:41 | Cohen (quoted by Ferguson) | “Sexually explicit things as to what he had done to Melissa… as to what he was going to do to Amanda.” | | 52:41 | Ferguson | “Do you know what I did to your sister? Well, I killed Melissa.” | | 59:19 | Ferguson | “And his type was very petite, you know, short women who didn't weigh much.” |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:40 – Hosts begin episode content (skip sponsorships/ads)
• 05:02–09:09 – Initial case summary and beginnings of the Gilgo Beach murders
• 11:27–17:34 – Recounting Shannon Gilbert’s final hours and immediate aftermath
• 22:56–26:41 – Discussion of police treatment of sex worker disappearances and family reactions
• 35:48–38:09 – Discovery of the Gilgo 4, forensics, and patterns in body disposal
• 44:12–47:14 – Police resistance to family calls for missing persons cases, especially involving sex workers
• 48:30–53:24 – Killer’s phone calls to family, victimology, and psychological insight
• 58:50–60:21 – Escalation into victimology, digital selection of victims, and criminal profiling
• 63:26–64:43 – Preview of upcoming episodes and investigation extension into 2022

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Tone and Language

The hosts maintain their recognizable, conversational tone—mixing dark humor, candid skepticism, compassion for victims, and frustration with institutional failings:

• “I want to trust people… [but] can I completely? And I think the answer is no, not today.” (17:21)
• “He’s getting something out of it, some kind of sexual gratification. But… hearing from this person that she believes killed her sister… I don't know how this poor girl slept at night.” (50:44)
• “It's just a big blunder. Why make the call unless you're 100% positive?” (36:15, regarding police error)

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Looking Ahead

The episode closes with a preview:
“In part two of the Long Island Serial Killer episodes, we’ll cover the discovery of additional bodies… the links among the victims, and follow the investigation through 2022. So, like we said… it’s going to take four parts because there’s just so much to this case.” (63:26)

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Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

You know folks, when Gibby and I first started this podcast, we had no idea what we were doing. We had so many worries. Would anybody listen? Would we just make fools of ourselves? But now we know we were right to go ahead and try it because look, we're 10 years later. But it also helps to have a partner on your side. Like Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Gymshark to True Crime all the time to brands just getting started. You can get started with your own design studio. They have ready to use templates that help build a beautiful online store that matches your brand style. Shopify helps you get the word out. Like you have a whole marketing team behind you. You can easily create email and social media campaigns. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24. 7 customer support. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.comtcat go to shopify.comtcat that's shopify.comtcatt. ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront

[Mike Gibson]

payment of $45 for 3 month plan

[Mike Ferguson]

equivalent to $15 per month required intro

[Mike Gibson]

rate first 3 months only, then full

[Mike Ferguson]

price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms at Mintmobile do. Hello everyone and welcome to episode four, 500 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you doing?

[Mike Gibson]

Good man. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

For those watching on video, you can see our our new sign in the studio. Very nice that a lot of people have been asking for. Finally figured out a good place to do it that could replicate kind of the logo font that we have.

[Mike Gibson]

It's okay. You can say I handmade it in my garage.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah. Gibby blew it. He blew all that glass in his garage. Oh. All right, buddy, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Brianna. Jeanette, what's going on?

[Mike Gibson]

Jeanette.

[Mike Ferguson]

Aaron Groff.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Zaron.

[Mike Ferguson]

Lindsay Chandler.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Lindsay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Megan and Teddy.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Megan, Teddy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ainsley.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Ainsley.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Robin Jennings.

[Mike Gibson]

The Jennings.

[Mike Ferguson]

The Jennings. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Don Park.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, dp. Love some dp.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. We have a brand new episode out right now on True Crime all the time Unsolved, where we're talking about 18 year old Justin Gaines. He was last seen outside of a bar. He was just a few months into his freshman year of college. And this is a. A fascinating case because there are multiple people who have kind of said that they were involved in his murder in some way or another.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it's almost like so many people have inserted themselves. The water is too muddy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is what it makes it seem like.

[Mike Gibson]

But I feel like it's all going to get connected.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

And come together here.

[Mike Ferguson]

I do, too.

[Mike Gibson]

Sooner than we think.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think this one will be solved for sure. All right, buddy. So we're doing something a little different. Doing a big case for 500. Gilgo Beach, Long island serial killer. It's known by many names and it's a huge case that, that most people know about, but there's a lot of info. It's going to take us four parts.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're doing them all on both audio and video and we're putting them out Sunday. Thursday. Sunday, Thursday. So people don't have to wait as long.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's how we roll.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's how we're rolling now.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So let's dive right in.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Are you ready to get into this 500th episode of True Crime? All the time.

[Mike Gibson]

Let's think about that for a second.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's hard.

[Mike Gibson]

500 episodes we've been doing this.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's hard to believe that we, coming from where we did when we started, that we are now on episode 500.

[Mike Gibson]

Think how long it took you to finally pull your weight.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And start doing my part of the show.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So the case of one missing woman led the police to multiple bodies on the south shore of Long Island. The investigation started when a woman named Shannon Gilbert called 911 in the early morning hours of May 1, 2010. Shannon was panicked, telling the operator that someone was after her. But by the time police arrived, she was gone. In December 2010, an officer was searching for Shannon on Long Island's Gilgo Beach. He didn't find Shannon, but he did find the body of a woman who went missing in July 2009. And then just days later, three more missing women were found. They became Known as the Gilgo 4. You know, we talk about this from time to time where police are searching for one thing.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they find something else. They're searching for a car in a body of water. They find four more cars.

[Brooke (Voicemail Caller)]

Not.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not the one they're looking for exactly, but four other cars. And you got to figure out, okay, what are these cars doing here? This is a little different, because they're searching for a woman, and they find another woman dead.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And then they find a few more bodies.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. Searches of Gilgo beach and the surrounding area continued in the spring of 2011. Six more bodies were found, and none of them were Shannon Gilbert.

[Mike Gibson]

So now we're up to 10 bodies,

[Mike Ferguson]

but still haven't found the person they initially set out to find, who just happens to share the. The name of my wife.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

And spells it exactly the same. And I hardly ever see it spelled this way. Two A's, an A at the end instead of an O, and that's.

[Mike Gibson]

That. That is unique.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And that's exactly how my wife spells her name. But it turned out, Gibbs, that one of the victims was a female toddler, and her mother's remains were also found that spring. So I think, you know, if you're investigators and if you're the public, as some as all of this starts to come out, if you're investigators, you're concerned. Right. That you have a. A possible serial killer, and you got to figure out what's going on. I think if you're the public, it's the same, but for a different reason.

[Mike Gibson]

I think you're going to be scared.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You know, and rightfully so, because who's next? And who is this serial killer? Supposed serial killer. Is he living right next door to me?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Is he terrorizing what part of the community?

[Mike Ferguson]

Disturbingly, some of these victims, partial remains, had already been found before 1 as early as 1996. The Suffolk County Police have called the Gilgo beach case one of the most consequential homicide investigations in the history of Long Island. In 2022, a task force identified an architect named Rex Heuerman as the Long Island Serial Killer, based on DNA, cell phone and a mountain of other evidence. Yeah, and again, like I said, this is a very well known case. People have heard of Go Go beach murders. They've heard of the Long Island Serial Killer for the longest time. It was, you know, up there as far as the most recognizable unsolved cases.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then obviously, when they identified this Rex Herman guy, it. It kind of exploded the true crime world because people had been talking about this case, studying it for so long, it was almost like Joseph d' Angelo being caught as the, the east area rapist, Golden State Killer. It was just front page news.

[Mike Gibson]

Big time news. Still is big time news.

[Mike Ferguson]

So in part one of the Long island serial killer episodes, we'll cover how the investigation began. The discovery of the bodies on Gilgo beach, the lives of the Gilgo 4, and the early suspect profile. 23 year old Shannon Gilbert was an aspiring actress from New Jersey who did escort. Escort work via Craigslist.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay. The old Craigslist.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm assuming Craigslist is still out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think it is. I do not think they have the same sex ads, if that's, if I'm saying that term correctly, that they used to.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, in the past it was a big place, I think, for escorts to advertise. And there was a lot of meat, you know, male looking for female. I don't think they do all that stuff anymore.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay, tone it down now, I guess.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, because I think it started out as more of a, you know, I have something for sale or yeah, you know, I got a job or, you know, something like that. But it's slowly, or maybe not slowly. Quickly probably morphed into 97% sex, I think.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay. Sex classified for sex.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But I think they've gotten away from it. I don't know. I haven't been on there in a long time. On April 30, 2010, Shannon left her home in New Jersey to meet up with her driver Michael Pack in Manhattan. Michael drove Shannon around the city that night. It was slow until midnight when Shannon got a call from a client named Joseph Brewer who lived on Oak beach in Long Island. It was a 90 minute drive, but Brewer wanted to hire Shannon for a few hours, which would make it worth the long trip.

[Mike Gibson]

I would. That's a long trip to go for just a couple hours of work. But it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

But if you're making what I. I have no idea what an escort could or did charge in 2010.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

500, a thousand dollars an hour.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know, maybe whatever she was getting was worthwhile for her.

[Mike Ferguson]

For 90 minutes each way.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Shannon was in Brewer's house for a few hours while Michael waited outside. At 4:51am Joseph Brewer tapped on Michael's window, telling him Shannon wouldn't leave. Michael said in a 2011 interview that Shannon looked paranoid and scared. He told her they should go back. Michael reported that Joe grabbed Shannon and she freaked out. She made a frantic call to 911 from inside Joseph Brewer's house just before 5am and the following is a partial transcript of that call that was published by 48 Hours. So you have the operator saying, state police. Shannon said, yeah, there's somebody after me. These people are trying to kill me. According to NBC, Brewer was heard saying at one point, come on, let's go. We'll all go outside. Shannon said, please get me out of here, Mike. Shannon couldn't specify where she was, but she did say she was on Long Island. Shannon fled from Joe's house during her call, and her screams drew the attention of neighbor Gus colletti. Clutty told 48 Hours. It was like five in the morning. I was in the bathroom shaving. All of a sudden, I heard screaming out here and banging on that door, yelling, help me. Help me. Help me. He opened the door and asked Shannon what was wrong, but all she would say was, help me. Help me. Help me.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. Scary.

[Mike Ferguson]

And it's such a strange kind of interaction. Right. Who is she afraid of? Who is she saying are these people who are trying to kill her? And then at one point she says, mike, get me out of here.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And we just said, michael's out waiting in the car. There's a lot of strangeness going on.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of moving pieces with this.

[Mike Ferguson]

So she goes next door. She's trying to get the. This neighbor's attention. And Shannon was still on the phone with 911 when Coletti opened the door. So this interaction was recorded. He also called 91 1, according to Coletti. He said, when I said to her, I called the police. Sit down in that chair. They're on their way. She just looked at me, and then she just ran out the door.

[Mike Gibson]

Very strange.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. This whole thing is strength. It's almost as if one, she is either really scared that someone has threatened her or is going to kill her, has said they were going to hurt her, or she's on drugs.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which is a possibility.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or I think the third possibility is she's experiencing some kind of mental health issue. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Scary either way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, all three are scary just because of the way that. That she's acting. He noticed Shannon's driver, Michael Pack, driving a black SUV in the area. He said, I could see a car came and stopping, coming a little bit and stopping. He spotted Shannon hiding under his boat. And then all of a sudden, she ran out from under it. The driver followed her. Coletti yelled at him to stop. But he followed her. Shannon ran to the home of Coletti's neighbor Barbara Brennan, who also called 91 1. Brennan said someone woman is knocking on my door. She says she's in danger. I'm not letting her in.

[Mike Gibson]

So you have a lot of activity going on there with the neighbor in the neighborhood. Right. And then you have, I'm sure the police are, are on the other side going what is going on in this

[Mike Ferguson]

neighborhood mean on the other end of the call. Yeah, yeah. Well, but also, you know, let's look at it from her perspective. She doesn't know any of these people.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

So she is going to random individuals houses and knocking on the door and the first guy says, hey, come on in, sit down. I've called the police. I mean he, he seems to have been very non threatening, very inviting as far as, you know, like a safe person that you could trust. But for whatever reason she bolts and then she runs to another neighbor's house. At one point she's hiding under his boat. It's just hard to make sense of really is. And that's why, you know, it kind of takes me down the path of drug use or a mental health issue because I mean, let's face it, some of this stuff just doesn't seem normal. When the police arrived at 5:40am Shannon was gone. They assumed she left the area with her driver, Michael Pat. And let's talk about this. This woman who said, hey, I, I'm not letting her in. I don't blame you. First of all, it's between 5 and 6 in the morning.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So you better have a, a damn good reason of knocking on my door that early. First of all, I'm probably not going to wake up. My wife is and then she's going to say, hey, somebody's knocking on the door. You better go check it out. I am not going to be a happy camper.

[Mike Gibson]

No, you will not be.

[Mike Ferguson]

But on the flip side of that is it's going to be hard for me to really take a chance that someone is telling me the truth and that they need saving. Because how many times have we seen like a real ploy being used in that manner to get into somebody's house and then, you know, things go sideways in a hurry.

[Mike Gibson]

Mean like the movie Strangers.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a great example. Again, I've said it a million times. I want to trust people.

[Mike Gibson]

Of course.

[Mike Ferguson]

I want to trust a person who's broken down on the side of the road. I want to trust A person who knocks on my door. But can I completely. And I think the answer is no, not today.

[Mike Gibson]

Not today.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe in 1950s Pleasantville, maybe, where nothing went wrong, you know, but today, the world is. It can be a brutal place, a sinister place. But in total, Shannon's 911 call lasted over 21 minutes. But portions of that, they were silent, like nothing was going on. According to former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone, the police could not respond to Shannon's call because she couldn't tell them where she was.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, they need a location to know where to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, I've always thought that they could kind of trace where the calls were

[Mike Gibson]

coming from, but I always thought so, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe that wasn't possible at this point in time. It's 2010, though, it's not 1990. So I. I really don't know. Maybe it differs from place to place, what type of, you know, equipment they have.

[Mike Gibson]

Not sure how long you're on the phone with them. Maybe, I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, 21 minutes, I think, is long enough. That is a long time if you have the ability. Yeah, because like in the movies, it's like, just keep them on the line for what, 30, 60 seconds, something like that. That's what we need. And the person always knows that they got to hang up before that amount of time. Barone told 48 Hours, the complaint operator is asking, well, where are you? And she just kind of ignores that where are you? Question and keeps saying, someone's after me. She sounds not very coherent, not very rational.

[Mike Gibson]

Fair statement.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. But what does that statement again, kind of lead you to? And to me, it's thinking drugs, mental health issue.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's what you think of if someone's not coherent, they're not acting rational. It could be like one of those things. Right. Verone added, it almost seems like she's in some type of psychotic state or in some type of drug induced stupor.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I think he's. He's thinking the exact same thing.

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[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Probably talking to two different operators. And if it's all kind of happening at the, you know, same time, maybe the connection's not made, I guess.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe the location, the call centers is too big. You know, maybe they're not in the same.

[Mike Ferguson]

Even if they were right next to each other, maybe they don't put it together.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, maybe someone stands up, say, I got something really crazy going on over here.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I, I think everything they handle is on the chaotic side of things. Now, it may not, not everything's like this, but I'm sure it's, it's not a dull job, let's put it that way.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I mean, we used, you know, we, we do. We have a, a couple listeners that are.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, dispatchers.

[Mike Gibson]

Dispatchers. And they had some pretty good stories.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure they have a lot of good. Probably some they can't legally tell us.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is my, is my thought. According to 48 Hours, Shannon's call was transferred to the New York State Police when she couldn't give her location. And it took almost a month for police to link her call to the missing persons report because it was filed in New Jersey.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

So, I mean, I, I think, you know, that that's just a jurisdictional thing. I don't know that there's any malfeasance or bad police work there. It could just be, you know, how things worked back then. Shannon's sister, Sherry Gilbert, didn't learn she was missing for two days when Shannon's boyfriend called her to say she didn't come home. Shannon's sisters, Sherry and Sarah had been worried about her ever since she told them she was doing escort work.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not the safest job, that's for sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's not. And it is obviously a profession that you and I talk about frequently. Right. It comes up in many cases because sadly, sex workers are often targeted and have been targeted for a very long time by killers and serial killers. Because they are in a vulnerable situation.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In a lot of ways. Number one, sometimes they're getting into cars with people they don't know, which is just almost. I hate to say it, but a perfect scenario for a predator to strike.

[Mike Gibson]

They're vulnerable. They are a vulnerable target.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. There's just no doubt about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Shannon had also been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and struggle with depression and mood swings. When her sisters expressed their worry, she said nothing would happen. Well, let's face it, nobody thinks anything's gonna. Bad is gonna happen.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, on the flip side of that is you don't want to walk around all day constantly thinking something bad is going to happen to you.

[Mike Gibson]

You don't want to manifest something.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. And you don't want to ruin your life by just being so worried about it all the time. Sherry Gilbert told 48 Hours that Shannon was trying to make a better life for herself, saying, my sister had other dreams. You know, she wanted to be a singer, an actress. She was pursuing that. And she was also going to school to be a writer.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, she's heavily involved in bettering herself and wanting to go to that acting profession. Singing, entertainment.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. It's like what we call the Mike Gibson route.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

AKA Rex West.

[Mike Gibson]

I, too, have started writing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But, you know, this is the thing. And I. I understand the illegal part of sex work.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And why a lot of people look down on it. But it is also true that there have been people, mainly women, that have used it to get through a period in their life.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

To get on to bigger and better things.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't think there's any doubt about that very much like stripping. I mean, there. There are people who have stripped to put their way to make their way

[Mike Gibson]

through college, and some that still strip at senior facilities. Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Even though they don't have to. They just like it.

[Mike Gibson]

They just like it.

[Mike Ferguson]

But. Yeah. So I. I try not to be too judgmental about stuff like that. Now I get it. Some things are illegal, and they just are illegal. Shannon's family filed a missing person's report as soon as they found out, but they didn't receive any news, so they drove to Oak beach to start looking for themselves. Shannon had been missing for eight days at this point.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a long time.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is a long time. And I think if you're the family and. And this is something that. That you and I go back and forth with, you know, at a certain point, you're going to do whatever you have to do.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's. Start your own searches. Hire a private investigator. Especially if you. If, you know, police aren't really communicating or you may not feel as though, A, they're doing what they should be,

[Mike Gibson]

or B, they're getting anywhere and really think about it. Historically, police used to not really put in the effort for sex workers as a, you know, somebody else, you know, that's part of the community.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, that's. I. I think it's been pretty well documented.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, not every jurisdiction or every department, but over the years, I think it's been pretty well documented.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That. That has happened. So the family, you know, they spoke to a dozen people just trying to put together a timeline, and they learned that Shannon and her driver left the city shortly after midnight on May 1, 2010, to go to a gated community in Oak Beach. The police did search for Shannon, but months passed with no sign of her. Investigators looked into the man who hired her that night. This guy, Joseph brewer. Joseph told 48 Hours he solicited Shannon online, but not for sexual. He also didn't know why Shannon became afraid, because he never harmed her. He just wanted her to leave his house and brought the driver inside to get her to leave. The last time he saw her, she was running out of his house to his neighbor, Gus Coletti.

[Mike Gibson]

He's like, hey, I got her out of the house.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm.

[Mike Gibson]

I was done at that point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I'm also, you know, I always like the. I did solicit Shannon online.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it wasn't for sex. You know, that's the whole escort.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Part.

[Mike Gibson]

I just wanted some company.

[Mike Ferguson]

Nobody pays that much money for company.

[Mike Gibson]

Just want to have some conversation, you know, because I'm a talker.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh. I don't know. Do you need somebody to escort you to a dinner? Yeah, maybe. If you're lonely. Are you going to pay thousands of dollars for that? Most people don't. Yeah. So he can say that. And maybe that's the truth. I. I can't dispute it. 100. But I would be shocked if there wasn't sex in the. In the planning of that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I mean, it definitely would be the minority of that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson]

Scenario.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now I get it. He can't just come out and say, yeah, I solicited her for sex, because that is a crime.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

So much better to say, yeah, I just lonely. I need an escort, Quote, unquote.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

When Coletti saw Michael Pack, he said he was looking for Shannon. When Coletti told Pac he called the police, Pack said, you shouldn't have done that. And that's an interesting statement. You can take it a couple of different ways, right?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is he worried that she's going to get in trouble because she's an escort?

[Mike Gibson]

Probably.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she's technically doing something that's illegal, or is it more sinister than that? Does it have another. Is there another reason?

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, could. It could.

[Mike Ferguson]

In a text of 48 hours, PAC said he never touched her and had nothing to do with Shannon's disappearance. Both Pack and breweries past polygraphs and were not considered suspects. So you can make of all of that what you will and especially the polygraph part, depending on how much stock you put into polygraphs. But I always like it when people say, well, I didn't have anything to do with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

What else are you going to say?

[Mike Gibson]

We certainly are going to raise your hand, say, well, I had something to do with it, but I'm not telling you anything more.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, it's. I get it. They have to report it that way because that's what he said. But it's like, it's. So what's on the nose? I guess. But he did pass a polygraph, and police said they neither he nor Brewer were considered suspects.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, that's somewhat telling, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm sure they looked into it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

There just wasn't anything there. Dr. C. Peter Hackett, a resident of Oak beach and a retired emergency services doctor, inserted himself into the case when he called Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert, on May 3, 2010. He ran a halfway house for people who wanted to get off the street and claimed that Shannon was there. She left with her driver, and he said he was worried about her. However, when Shannon's sisters came to Oak beach, he denied calling Mary and said he'd never seen Shannon.

[Mike Gibson]

That's so bizarre.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, everything is bizarre right from her actions. And now you've got this doctor allegedly caught making the call and then later saying he didn't make the call. In letters to 48 Hours, Hackett admitted that he called Mary Gilbert, but said it was later in the week. And he did so at the request of friends who were searching for Shannon. He wrote, at no time did I suggest I had ever met her or render medical care of any sort to her. He also denied seeing Shannon when speaking to the press.

[Mike Gibson]

Why would Mary say that's what he said?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. I don't know what would be in it. Like, what would be her motive?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

For saying he said that? I have no idea. She had a friend record her confrontation with Dr. Hackett who claimed, I never saw her, I never met her. All this stuff about a rehab or something. I don't have a rehab. I don't do rehab. 48 hours obtained her phone records which confirmed that Hackett did make a call to her on May 3, 2010. So, I mean, it's not making him look great. No, because most of the evidence is kind of backing her story up. 48 hours went to Hackett's home to get answers about why he called Mary Gilbert and then changed his story. He said, because I couldn't remember my story. Seriously, a person gets a lot of phone calls.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You know what though? I would think you would remember this story.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm with you. I think if it's just a run of the mill, everyday kind of phone call, easy to forget. If it's a phone call that is attached to something that is then front page news and all over the media, you're probably going to tend to remember that. Yeah, that's what I think.

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[Mike Ferguson]

If you know you verbo terms apply. See vrbo.com trust for details. Former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives Dominic Verone noted that Hackett wasn't a suspect. Yeah, the calls were strange but not out of character because Varrone said he's an individual who likes to get involved. Some call him a storyteller, an exaggerator. We certainly believe that he may have called to offer his assistance.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, clearly he wanted to insert himself into the case, right or wrong.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

But he also should probably be more straightforward on what that conversation was and how it went.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, a lot of people like to insert themselves into cases, right? I mean, that's, that's just a fact. Sometimes killers like to insert themselves into cases that they're responsible for. Yeah, I'm not saying that's him, but there's also people who just want to be in the thick of it. Right. Because it's fascinating or it's interesting. It's just strange for me to, you know, you know, for kind of a medical professional to get involved and then get caught in this lie, because then you have to answer the question, well, why are you lying? Yeah. You know, is it just because you wanted to be kind of in the mix, or is there, you know, a more sinister reason for it? Searches continued throughout the summer of 2010, but were unsuccessful. On December 11th of that year, an officer and his canine were conducting another search for Shannon Gilbert along Ocean Parkway at Gilgo Beach, Long Island. The dog gave an indication off the shoulder of Ocean Parkway and it turned out to be an intact skeleton wrapped in burlap.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh.

[Mike Ferguson]

At first, everyone assumed it was Shannon Gilbert. In fact, police called Mary to tell her they had found Shannon according to the Gone Girls docu series. But that assumption turned out to be wrong. Shannon had a titanium plate in her jaw due to past injuries from an abusive boyfriend. It was soon determined that the human remains were not Shannon.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a big mistake to, you know, call a loved one saying, hey, we've got her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. Without getting the confirmation first because you talk about getting someone's hopes up and not hopes that they're dead, but hopes that I guess there, there's now finally a resolution. Yeah, I'm with you. It's just a big blunder. Why make the call unless you're 100% positive? The remains were identified as 24 year old Melissa Barthelemy, who went missing in July 2009. On December 13, Suffolk County Police found three more sets of human remains within a quarter mile of the first discovery, about 22 to 33ft from the edge of Ocean Parkway. The victims were identified as 25 year old Maureen Brainard Barnes, 22 year old Megan Waterman, and 27 year old Amber Costello. These victims became known as the Gilgo 4, their cause of death, all was listed as homicidal violence. Now, let's take a step back. Right. All found within a quarter mile of the first discovery. 22 to 33ft off the edge of this roadway.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Not far apart from each other.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. And not far off the road.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

So there's a couple of things that, you know, kind of jump out to me. Number one is I think police stumbled onto somebody's dumping ground.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But number two is it seems like if you were really trying to be careful. And I always have to be careful. I'm not trying to give tips to, like, want to be serial killers.

[Mike Gibson]

Right, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But just kind of thinking logically, do you want to go a little bit further off the road?

[Mike Gibson]

I would. I would want to go further off the road. I'd want to space then, you know, the bodies further apart from each other. And I certainly wouldn't want them, you know, that close to the. Up on the road.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that was my thought. Now, we do know that a lot of times killers, they like to stay in the same kind of geographical region for whatever they feel comfortable in that area, maybe that they've done it before, they weren't seen. They're not going to be seen this time. Just seems like very close to the road. 20 to 33ft. That's not. That's not a long distance.

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe, you know, it's. It's a. An area that they feel like they can go back and revisit easy without looking suspicious.

[Mike Ferguson]

Possible.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You know, maybe they felt that was another reason why the bodies had to be dumped there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, it's absolutely possible. Maureen Brainard Barnes was the first of the Gilgo four who was murdered. Maureen was a single mother of two who lived in Norwich, Connecticut. Her family said she was smart, creative, and loved being a mother. Maureen posted escort ads on Craigslist and other websites to meet clients. At the time, her family didn't know she was doing this.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I don't think a lot of escorts are broadcasting that to family members.

[Brooke (Voicemail Caller)]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I'm sure there are some whose family know what they do, but that does seem to be something that maybe is kept hidden.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think more often than not, maybe it's because the. They don't think their family will approve. Maybe it's just because they're not happy with that, but they feel like they got to do it to make ends meet. I really don't know. Yeah, could be a number of different reasons. But it is somewhat interesting that we kind of have this Craigslist connection, at least between two different people that we've talked about. And then also obviously the escort connection.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maureen's sister Melissa can told CBS she was getting evicted from her house. She needed to get some money. It was her last resort. These are all the jobs she called and applied for. Call center, data entry, and the list goes on and on. She didn't turn to Craigslist because she wanted to. She turned to Craigslist because she felt there was no way out. No one would give her a job.

[Mike Gibson]

Something she had to do out of necessity.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And you know, sadly, I think there are a lot of people maybe who turn to that out of necessity. I don't know what the percentage would be. Yeah, I don't know how many people go into that as like first choice. I'm sure there are some, but probably. Yeah, I don't know if it would be the overwhelming majority.

[Mike Gibson]

I would think not of people.

[Mike Ferguson]

On July 6, 2007, a burner phone contacted Maureen Cell. Between July 6 and July 9, there were 16 interactions between the two phones.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay, so some, definitely some conversations going on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And about a three day period of time. I don't talk to anybody. Sixteen times in three days. No, on the phone. I believe that I talk to you maybe once a week. Maybe Sometimes we just text.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, once.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sometimes we don't even text. I know, you just show up and we record. I talk to my wife every day. It's only because she calls me on her way home from work.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

She could wait, but she's got nothing else to do so she just calls me in the car.

[Mike Gibson]

I want you to know I talk

[Mike Ferguson]

to my mom maybe once a week, My dad once a week. Other than that, you know, friends here and there. I do not call people a lot.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I don't think you have 16 interactions in a month with everybody. You know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe not. No, maybe not. Now, if it's work related or whatever, I have a lot with listeners who email in and I respond to them and things like that. But just to call and talk. No, it's not my, my favorite.

[Mike Gibson]

Here's, here's how our conversation would go. Hey, man, how you doing? I'm okay. Okay, it sounds good. So I'll see you tomorrow night. Yep. Okay, see you. Bye.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, if we do talk, that's about what it would be. So the number of interactions is something to take a look at. But then the, the other thing is that it's a burner phone.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I think we have to, you know, Keep that in mind as well. On July 8, Maureen's sister Melissa spoke to her for the last time. She received a call from Maureen late at night from Penn Station in Midtown Manhattan. Maureen said she was going to take the midnight train. She never saw or heard from her sister again. You ever been to Penn Station?

[Mike Gibson]

A long, long time ago, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I've actually never been to New York City.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, really?

[Mike Ferguson]

Never. My wife keeps saying she wants to go. We've talked about going.

[Mike Gibson]

They have good picante sauce in New York City now.

[Mike Ferguson]

You and I had Penn Station for dinner, but it's not. Not the same thing.

[Mike Gibson]

No, it's not.

[Mike Ferguson]

So Maureen was last seen alive in New York City on July 9, 2007. She checked into a Super 8 motel in Manhattan and disappear. Maureen's family reported her missing in Norwich and told the police she was an escort. They were told, maybe your sister just ran away. Maybe she doesn't care about her kids. Wow, man, that's tough. That's tough. I wonder how much of that was right after they found out she was an escort.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, back to your point earlier, did they think, okay, yep, we're done with this because we don't care. I hate to say that, but we know it's happened.

[Mike Gibson]

I think that's probably what did happen because I can't imagine someone being so insensitive to say something so stupid.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now, not to say it's not a possibility, but is that the first thing you're going to tell the family?

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe she don't care about her kids.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. Like you, I. I think insensitive for sure. At the very least. Similar to the Shannon Gilbert case, Maureen's family felt like no one took them seriously, so they started searching themselves. Officers later told Missy that someone used Maureen's cell phone to make a call from Long Island. Both Long island and Midtown Manhattan would become central locations in the investigation. The second of the Gogo Four went missing almost exactly two years later. After graduating from beauty school, 24 year old Melissa Bartholomew moved from Buffalo, New York to New York City to work as a hairdresser. She also did escort work. Melissa was last seen alive in New York City on July 19, 2009. Lynn Barthelemy became worried after she didn't hear from her daughter for several days. She called hospitals and she called the NYPD to file a missing persons report, but according to her, they didn't want to hear anything. They said she's 24, she's not on any psych meds. She's not missing. She's where she wants to be. And she said that happened for three consecutive days.

[Mike Gibson]

See, I just find that so wrong. It's like we don't have time to deal with this. She's 24. She's where she want to be. Don't worry about it. You know, she'll get ahold of you when she wants to talk to you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now I understand, right? An adult has the right to go missing or to go and do whatever they want.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But is that the first, I guess, right off the bat conclusion to most missing persons reports? I don't know.

[Mike Gibson]

But it's also her, her mom that knows her. Not like they have a bad relationship. I feel like the mom saying my daughter is missing.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

She normally contacts me whenever and I haven't heard from her and we need to find her.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just wonder again how much of that had to do with whether or not they knew that she did some escort work. Yeah. Family attorney Steve Cohen contacted the police and was allegedly told she's a hooker, she's a prostitute. She was. She's an escort. We're not going to assign a detective to this.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, just that right there. We're not going to sign any detective to this because she's this, this and this. Okay. So because she's these things that makes her less of a person, that she doesn't deserve the same respect and same courtesy that you would give anybody else missing. I don't get that.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, because you shouldn't get it. It's wrong. Now obviously it's this guy saying that. That's why, you know, we use the word allegedly. But I don't know why this attorney would have a, you know, any reason to make this up. Exactly.

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[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

That's the good stuff right there.

[Mike Ferguson]

So if your business is in it to win it, win with Shopify. Start your free trial [e-mail]. win A week after she went missing, Melissa's 15 year old sister Amanda received calls from her sister's phone. Amanda answered and said, melissa, where have you been? A man responded on the other end of the line saying, oh, this isn't Melissa. According to attorney Steve Cohen, he was soft spoken and had a very controlled and comfortable manner of speech which made horrific messages all the more devastating.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

This guy began to toy with her and for the very first time, she heard the voice of the killer. Wow.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, this guy's got some, you know, what on him to, to do something like that. Right. To make those calls into toy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But he's getting something out of it.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, for sure, right? Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not doing it just for the heck of it. Yeah, he's getting something out of it in a, a sick, twisted way.

[Mike Gibson]

He's getting his jollies off.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, sure.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

There were eight calls total traced to midtown Manhattan. And in one call, the killer spoke to Lynn. He said he was with the NYPD and wanted to know if she filed the missing persons report. Steve Cohen told cbs, and the killer said some pretty horrible things to Amanda. Sexually explicit things as to what he had done to Melissa. Sexually explicit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, it goes to what you were saying that, you know, most likely he was, you know, being very bad in that conversation to her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And he was obviously, like we said, getting something out of it, some kind of sexual gratification. But I want to talk about Amanda and, and, you know, Lynn for that matter. But Amanda hearing from this person that she believes killed her sister, and he's talking about what he did to her, but then he's also saying what he's going to do to Amanda.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Scary.

[Mike Ferguson]

You talk about being scared. I mean, I, I don't know how this poor girl slept at night. She had to have been terrified. Based on his voice, the police believed he was a white male in his late 20s to late 30s.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know how you can determine someone's age by their voice, though. Well, that's hard to do.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. People have always misjudged our age.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Before they've seen us. They don't misjudge it once they see us, but I think a lot of people, before they got to see us on video thought that maybe we were a little bit younger.

[Mike Gibson]

They did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Than what we were. Yeah. But also a white male in his late 20s to late 30s, for some reason I feel is how every FBI profile starts.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's a white Male? Yeah, in his late 20s to late 30s.

[Mike Gibson]

Like I could have wrote that.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it seemed like the caller knew about investigative techniques based on the way he made calls in busy locations and how long he stayed on the phone.

[Mike Gibson]

Don't want to be tracked.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, and we were just kind of joking around about that earlier, right? In the movies, it's like people know exactly how long they can stay on the phone before the other side, law enforcement can trace the call. Yeah, well, they're. They're kind of saying this about this guy. How's he know this? Is he a cop? Does he have some kind of inside knowledge? Amanda received the final call on August 26, 2009. The man told her, do you know what I did to your sister? Well, I killed Melissa. He warned Amanda that he knew where she lived, and he threatened to come after her. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I feel for her on so many different levels.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Obviously, being told that her sister was killed by the man who killed her firsthand, or saying that he. He's the one who killed her, and then threatening her in a way that I think few threats would ever rise to the level of. Right. Because number one, you're already thinking, this guy's a killer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not a crackpot. No, not someone just making idle threats. This is someone who's claiming to have already killed your sister, who you know is missing and is saying, I know where you live and I'm going to kill you, too.

[Mike Gibson]

And you have to believe him because he's giving you some really strong details of what happened to your sister.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and not just kill you. Of also basically saying, I'm going to sexually assault you with all the nasty things that I've said in previous calls. So feel horrible for her as well. 22 year old Megan Waterman was a mother from Scarborough, Maine. Megan's family said she was a creative woman who loved fashion. She was devoted to her daughter. But she also had a troubled life. Like the other victims, Megan did escort work. On June 5, 2010, a burner phone that was activated that day contacted Megan. At 1:31am on June 6, the same burner phone contacted Megan. Security footage captured her leaving a Holiday Inn Express in Hopage. I hope I'm saying that correctly. It's a hamlet on Long Island. Around that same time, this was the last time Megan was seen alive. Megan normally had someone with her when she went on client calls, but this time, she was alone. Cell phone records placed Megan's phone in a Long island neighborhood called Massapequa Park. 27 year old Amber Costello lived in West Babylon, Long island, just seven and a half miles from Massapequa Park. She also did escort work. A client asked Amber to meet him at the Holiday Inn Express in Hopage a few weeks before she went missing. But Amber refused. And now I'm almost certain I'm saying that incorrectly, but a lot of people will tell me how wrong I am.

[Mike Gibson]

They will.

[Mike Ferguson]

Amber's roommate, Dave Schaller said she was an amazing person. Amber struggled with addiction and she did sex work to pay for drugs. According to Dave, Amber used to say she was better off. Debt. She hate that. She hated that she struggled with addiction and she didn't like her work. He told 48 Hours. She knew what she was doing was just like degrading, just despicable. She absolutely hated it.

[Mike Gibson]

But she had an addiction that she had to feed. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think she was very honest about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

She was doing it to get money to pay for her drugs. On September 1, 2010, Amber was contacted by a burner phone. On the second she left her house to meet a client and never came back. Dave Schaller told the police about Amber's clients. He said one of them looked like an ogre and drove a first generation Chevrolet Avalanche.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay, an ogre, what are we talking about?

[Mike Ferguson]

Shrek? Yeah, just a.

[Mike Gibson]

A big ugly guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ugly dude. The client had called Amber three to four times on the day she went missing. He offered her fifteen hundred dollars for the night, which was about six times her hourly rate.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a heck of a amount to be offered if that's six times what you typically would get paid.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean that, that's kind of hard to turn down.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But here's my thought. If you're a serial killer, you can offer whatever you want.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely. You're never going to pay it.

[Mike Ferguson]

You don't have any plans of ever paying that money. And if you do pay it, you're eventually going to get it back.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean it's a sad thing to say, but you have to believe that that goes through a person like this is mind that, you know, I'm going to make an offer that there's no way someone can refuse and I can do it because it doesn't matter. I'm not paying it.

[Mike Gibson]

But for Amber, this is, this is like I can make all this money and I won't have to do this for X amount of days or whatever because I'll get all this money up front and think about all the drugs I can.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's just Too good to pass up. Yeah, right. From her perspective. In 2011, Dave spoke to CBS and said this guy was so relentless. He called several times. He was on the phone with her for quite a while. Quite a while. Each time, this client convinced Amber to do something she never did, which was leave home without her purse or phone, and meet him in his car. Dave walked out the front door with Amber as she left to meet her client. She hugged him, said she loved him, and left. It was almost midnight. He saw her walking down the street and never saw her again. Dave told 48 Hours he didn't see the client's face, but he thought he had seen the guy before. After the bodies were found on Gilgo beach, police began the hunt for a suspect who became known as the Long Island Serial Killer, or LISK for short. You always have to abbreviate things. We always do. Investigators noted similarities between the Gilgo 4. Not only were they found close together, they were all young sex workers with petite builds. The victims, excluding Megan Waterman, were 5ft tall or less, about 100 pounds, all in their 20s and working as online escorts. Megan Waterman was 5 foot 5.

[Mike Gibson]

What would be the advantage of having a petite escort? Because maybe you can control them. You can have.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I actually have a couple of theories.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

One is, is that if you're going to attack someone, is it going to be easier to subdue someone that weighs 100 pounds? Yeah, probably. But also, is it possible that the killer just had a type?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, very, very much so.

[Mike Ferguson]

And his type was very petite, you know, short women who didn't weigh much. Dominic Verone, former chief of Detectives, believed the killer square scrolled through online ads on Craigslist to find his preferred victim type. He said if he desires a particular height and weight and eye color, he can do that. And I think if you look at the Gilgo 4, they're very, very close with unique characteristics. Very petite, 5 foot or under 100 pounds, hazel green eyes. And I think he's right on the money. Yeah. Because if you're driving around looking on street corners, can you size up someone to see. Yeah. How tall they are? Sure. You're not going to see eye color.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But on an online ad, it probably has all of that. Height, weight, eye color.

[Mike Gibson]

You're going to save a lot of time. Right. You can sit there in your office or on your living room, scroll through, see what you like.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's a scary thought, but you're absolutely right. It is scary, though. The bodies were wrapped in burlap and Found in similar positions, bound with belts or tape at the head, midsection and legs. Vroom believed the killer was familiar with the area along Ocean Parkway and chose it as his dumping ground. At the time, the area was covered in brush. There has since been a new bike path constructed, but in 2010, few joggers and cyclists went to this area.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, I think you had to be comfortable, right, to take a body out of your, out of your vehicle, you know, and, and throw it or roll it or carry it 20 to 30ft off the road. You got to feel pretty comfortable. No one's coming by.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Varrone wondered if the killer chose small victims who would be easier to overpower and transport.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, that's a good thought there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because you hit on the overpower part, but now we're talking about transport. And not to be morose, but a lifeless body I'm sure is hard to transport. I have no firsthand knowledge of it,

[Mike Gibson]

why they call it dead weight.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. But 100 pounds, much easier than 150 or 200 pounds. I mean, that's just a fact. Instead of burying the bodies, he just tossed them into the brush. Investigators also suspected the killer might have posed as a hunter, a private trash hauler, or someone else who would have had a reason to be on the beach. The killer might have been someone who was charming or persuasive. For example, he convinced Amber Costello to leave behind her phone. And Maureen Brainard Barnes was at Penn Station about to get on a train when she disappeared. So I think that's a good observation because what does that mean? Who are we talking about here is a potential killer? Are we talking about Henry Lee Lucas who would scare the. You know what. Out of anybody who, who saw him, whether they knew he was a killer or not, he was just a scary looking dude. Or are we talking about possibly a more normal. I hate to use the word normal, but Henry Lee Lucas wasn't normal. So I'm okay with it. But more of an everyday type of guy. Not shabby, dressed, shabbily dressed, or, you know, wears nice clothes, speaks well, maybe

[Mike Gibson]

made them feel comfortable. Yeah, I mean, I think he probably had to make them feel comfortable for

[Mike Ferguson]

them to do some of these things. I think that's what the, the investigators were saying. The killer was also brazen and sadistic, as evidenced by the disturbing phone calls, you know, that he made to Melissa, Melissa's family. I mean, those are nasty. We talked about them.

[Mike Gibson]

What things that he said to Amber.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, Amanda.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, Amanda.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, the Police continued searching the beach on December 16, 2010. Throughout the spring of 2011, investigators continued searching for Shannon Gilbert. And I mean, that's who we started the episode talking about. They end up finding these other victims, but not Shannon. But really, this is just the beginning of the Long Island Serial Killer case. More horrifying discoveries would be made on Gilgo beach that spring in part two of the Long Island Serial Killer. Episodes will cover the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo beach area, the links among the victims, and follow the investigation through 2022. So, like we said, right, as we wrap up this first part, it's going to take four parts because there's just so much to this case.

[Mike Gibson]

There's a lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

There really is. I mean, if you did it back in the day as an unsolved case, it would have taken three episodes, probably.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, no, you're right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you know, now, obviously with the discovery of. Of who the perpetrator was and even more recently, him pleading guilty, then we. We just got a lot to get into.

[Mike Gibson]

We do.

[Mike Ferguson]

But that's it for the first part. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Mike Ferguson]

People on the video are not used to seeing or hearing voicemail.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

But this is what happens on the regular podcast, so it is. They're seeing it for the first time.

[Brooke (Voicemail Caller)]

Hey, guys. My name is Brooke. I live in South Mississippi, and I've been listening to y' all for years. I had to start completely over because I got a new phone in Las Vegas, what Apple had saved for me. So I started all over again and now I'm about halfway through again. But I just wanted to let y' all know I absolutely love Yalls podcast. I. I listen to it while I'm working, while I'm driving, while I'm going to bed, everything in between. And also there is a very little known serial killer that most people don't know about. His name is Robert Dale Henderson. I actually had to do a project on him back in college. He. I found out about him because I went to interview as a 911 dispatcher in my hometown. And the guy who interviewed me knew my family name because he was the lead investigator on the case of my cousin who was killed in 1982. Turns out she was the 13th victim of a serial killer named Robert Dale Henderson. Y' all should look him up and see what y' all can figure out, because a lot of people don't even know he existed. But y' all have a blessed day and keep your own time of ticking. Bye.

[Mike Gibson]

All right.

[Mike Ferguson]

We love you.

[Mike Gibson]

We do.

[Mike Ferguson]

We appreciate the voicemail. We'll definitely look into that. Yeah, thanks, Brook, because it sounds like it. It could make for a very interesting episode. All right, buddy, that's it.

[Mike Gibson]

It.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H VAC and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time

[Mike Gibson]

left on the clock.

[Mike Ferguson]

So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.