Long Island Serial Killer Part 4

Summary

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True Crime All The Time: Long Island Serial Killer Part 4

Episode 503 – June 4, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson

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Overview

In this gripping fourth and final installment on the Long Island Serial Killer (LISK), hosts Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (Gibby) cover the latest developments and resolution of the Gilgo Beach murder cases and the trial of Rex Heuermann. Focusing on new evidence, additional charges, and the emotional impact on families and survivors, the hosts detail the prosecution’s meticulous use of forensic science and the investigative work that brought decades-old mysteries closer to closure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Identification and New Victims

• Karen Vergata Identified (03:00):
  Authorities identified "Jane Doe #7" as Karen Vergata, who vanished in 1996. Her severed remains were found years apart, highlighting the long gaps in solving these cases.

• Others Awaiting Identification:
  DA Raymond Tierney predicted imminent identification of additional victims—including an Asian male and a woman and child—through genetic genealogy.

• The Belt Evidence:
  A belt with "WH" or "HM" initials was tied to Maureen Brainerd Barnes’ remains—the initials belonging to Rex Heuermann’s father.

  “Grand jury investigation is important, but you really need to contact the family and go through all of that.” – Mike Ferguson (04:11)

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Digging Deeper into the Case Against Rex Heuermann

• Interviews and Witnesses (05:24):
  Post-arrest, women identified Heuermann from photos shown by the Human Trafficking Unit. Multiple sex workers recalled violent encounters with him.

• Distinctive Appearance:

  “Six, four, great big dude... ogre, the ogre one is the one that really cracks me up.” – Mike Ferguson (06:40)

Forensic & DNA Evidence

• DNA Links and Techniques (08:00):
  DNA from a pizza box and a cheek swab helped match hair evidence found on the victims.
  Odds for a match: as high as 8 trillion to 1.

• Family Members Cleared:
  Investigators confirmed Heuermann’s wife and children were out of town; their DNA on victim evidence was deemed incidental transfer.

  “He was committing these murders while his wife and kids were away.” – Mike Ferguson (09:48)

Defense Strategy

• Blaming Corrupt Police (14:53):
  Defense cited ex-Police Chief James Burke as a possible alternative suspect, arguing police corruption could cast doubt on prosecution evidence—though this was seen as a “good defense tactic,” if not convincing.

  “I’m casting, like, a little bit of doubt...but, you know, we don’t know that it wasn’t this guy.” – Mike Ferguson (15:27)

New Charges and Evidence

• Additional Murders (18:23, 19:37):
  In June 2024, Heuermann was charged with the murders of Sandra Castilla (1993) and Jessica Taylor (2003); both were linked by DNA—excluding 99.96% of the North American population, but not Heuermann.

  “It goes up exponentially. The idea that it is him.” – Mike Ferguson (24:06)

“Blueprint for Murder” Document

• Discovery of Step-by-Step Murder Instructions (25:23, 29:01):
  Investigators found a document on Heuermann’s counting over 350 electronic devices, outlining supplies, prepping, dismemberment, DNA concerns, and disposal. The file was edited over years, showing methodical and adaptive planning.

  “The document contained instructions for how to select and kill victims and dispose of bodies.” – Mike Ferguson (26:15)
  “Now, isn’t that funny, though? What he had listed as the top problem is... his top problem.” – Mike Gibson (26:44)

The Pornography Connection

• Violent Fantasies Turned Real (36:19):
  Heuermann’s devices stored torture/bondage porn consistent with his crimes.

  “I don’t know what that does to somebody’s brain.” – Mike Ferguson (36:19)

• Fantasy Progression:

  “It starts as fantasy...But then at a certain point, it stops being fantasy to them and they make it reality.” – Mike Ferguson (36:43)

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Victims, Family, and Community Impact

Family Reactions & Dilemmas

• Asa Ellerup’s Statements (11:55, 38:52):
  His ex-wife released thoughtful statements: She would listen to all evidence and “withhold judgment until the end of the trial.”

  “I have given Rex the benefit of the doubt, as we all deserve.” – Asa Ellerup, via Mike Ferguson (11:59)

• Survivor’s Guilt and Public Perception:
  The hosts discuss the difficulty for families who never saw warning signs:

  “You don’t want to believe it to be true because it changes everything you ever knew.” – Mike Gibson (14:48)

Notable Quotes from Victims’ Families

• Melissa Cann, Sister of Maureen Brainerd Barnes (51:10):

  “There’s finally a sense of relief. Today is not about the person responsible. Today is about the women’s lives who were stolen, about their voices, their future, their families. They are the reason we are here.”

  She also encouraged families of unsolved victims:

  “Keep going. Your loved ones matter. They’re not forgotten. And one day, answers can come.” – Melissa Cann (51:59)

Living in the “Kill Room”

• Asa Continues to Live in Home (52:54):
  Even knowing the basement’s dark history, Asa stayed in the home, haunted by “dreams every night.” The hosts express sympathy but question how she copes.

  “I just couldn’t do it.” – Mike Ferguson (53:54)

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Final Legal Resolution

Rex Heuermann’s Guilty Plea

• Plea Details (46:01, 49:15):
  On April 8, 2026, Heuermann pled guilty to the murders of seven women and admitted to an eighth. Plea meant dismissal of some charges; families accepted to avoid retraumatizing trials.

  “There was no negotiation for a reduced sentence. It was Heuermann’s decision to plead guilty, and the families were asked if they wanted to accept the plea or go to trial.” – Mike Ferguson (47:29)

• Sentencing Forthcoming:
  Life without parole expected; sentencing scheduled for June 17.

  “He knew he was caught.” – Mike Ferguson (49:46)

Motive, Remorselessness, and the Mind of a Killer

• No Remorse or Motivation Explained:
  During private confessions to family, Heuermann explained he didn't see his victims as human, but as prey; the first murder was unplanned, subsequent ones were premeditated.

  “He responded that he didn’t really think of the women as human beings.” – Mike Ferguson (55:31)

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Notable Cold Case Developments

Peaches and Her Daughter Identified (57:48)

• “Peaches” – Tanya Jackson, US Army Vet, and daughter Tatiana Dykes were identified, solving a major mystery. Their killer was not Heuermann, but Tatiana’s father, Andrew Dykes, who was later arrested.

The Asian Male Victim Remains Unidentified (60:36)

• Challenges of genetic genealogy for underrepresented groups.
• Case still unsolved; believed to have been a sex worker.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “So you’re telling me there’s a chance?” – Mike Ferguson (22:46), joking about the statistical odds in DNA evidence.
• “I just don’t think they think they’re going to get caught.” – Mike Ferguson (28:44), on killers’ confidence.
• “You might as well just hand this thing to the jury and say, convict me now.” – Mike Ferguson, on the murder blueprint (30:20).
• “I have to believe that they thought for quite a while that he was involved in most, if not all of these.” – Mike Ferguson (35:29)
• “I really believe he’s probably killed more.” – Mike Gibson (64:02), discussing the likely extent of Heuermann’s crimes.

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Key Timestamps

• 02:47 – Recap of suspect identification & new evidence
• 03:36 – Karen Vergata identified as “Jane Doe #7”
• 08:00 – DNA evidence links Heuermann to the crime
• 14:53 – Defense focuses on police corruption
• 18:23/19:37 – Heuermann charged with two additional murders
• 25:23 – Discovery of step-by-step murder planning document
• 35:27 – Implication in more victims, evidence analysis
• 46:01 – Heuermann pleads guilty, family impact
• 51:10 – Victim’s family statements & encouragement
• 57:48 – Peaches & daughter identified, new suspect named
• 60:36 – Asian male victim remains unidentified
• 62:39 – Discussion of psychological motives
• 64:08 – Likelihood of more victims

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Tone & Style Highlights

The tone is a mix of serious, investigative, and conversational, peppered with humor and empathy. The hosts maintain respect for victims and their families while providing accessible explanations of forensic and legal intricacies. Occasional levity arises in banter and light-hearted skepticism, but the gravity of the crimes and their impact is always front and center.

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Summary:
This concluding episode covers the arc of the investigation, legal prosecution, and lasting trauma arising from New York’s most notorious serial killing case. Bringing together forensic breakthroughs, digital sleuthing, the emotional resilience of families, and the dogged work of law enforcement, the episode highlights how persistence—both scientific and human—ultimately brought truth to light, though haunting questions remain.

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Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Foreign. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 503 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. As always, I'm Mike Ferguson and with me is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

One and only. The real Mike.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're the one. You're the one and only. Boy, you're full of yourself today, aren't you?

[Mike Gibson]

The real Gibby. No,

[Mike Ferguson]

please stand up. All right, buddy. So we are coming to the final part, Part four on our Long island serial killer case. Are you ready to get into it?

[Mike Gibson]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

So in part three, we covered how a Suffolk county task force. Right. Identified the suspect as well as his arrest, his background. Now in part four, we'll cover additional charges and evidence uncovered throughout the investigation and how prosecutors sought resolution and justice for the victims. On August 24, 2023, authorities announced they had identified Jane Doe number seven, who was found on Tobay beach in 2011 as 34 year old Karen Vergata. As we mentioned in part two, Karen severed legs were first found in a garbage bag on fire island on April 20, 1996. Her skull was found over 20 miles away in 2011. That's a big gap.

[Mike Gibson]

It is a big gap.

[Mike Ferguson]

Fifteen years later, at the time of her disappearance in February 1996, Karen was living in Manhattan and working as an escort. Her identity was confirmed in October 2022, but authorities first wanted to contact her family and initiate a confidential grand jury investigation. Authorities didn't say at the time of the announcement whether or not Karen was linked to Rex Heuermann. And you know, I get it, the grand jury investigation is important, but man, you really need to contact the family and go through all of that. At the news conference, DA Raymond Tierney also said authorities believe that they would soon identify three more victims, the Asian male and the woman and her daughter, who were found in April 2011. Those identifications would be made by the FBI using genetic genealogy. Tierney also revealed that the distinctive belt with the initials WH or HM, which was first shown to the public in 2020, was used to bind Maureen Brainerd Barnes remains. WH are the initials of Rex Herman's father.

[Mike Gibson]

Here we have it.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, it's amazing work. Right. Obviously, if you think about it now, the fact that they had DNA and all that helps, but, you know, the burner phones, tracing, all of this evidence, it's a lot of work, but it's also really good police work.

[Mike Gibson]

It is, yeah. They did a really good job getting to the point where they're at.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. On August 28, 2023, CBS reported that two women in the Suffolk County Jail claimed they had violent and aggressive encounters with Heman over a decade ago. Since his arrest, the Suffolk County Human Trafficking Unit had been interviewing sex workers and showing his picture to women. Five women had come forward with helpful information.

[Mike Gibson]

Not surprised.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm not surprised at all, because you were talking about a man here and he hasn't been convicted in the story. Right. Yet, as we go through it, but we're talking about a man who killed a large number of. Of women and also I think, hunted or tried to set up encounters, had encounters probably with people and where in which maybe there was violence, but he didn't kill them. But when you. You do that much and interact that much with sex workers over a long period of time, then there's bound to be people who remember you, of course.

[Mike Gibson]

And he's not somebody you're not going to remember either, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Six, four, great big dude.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Ogre looking ugly as. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, ogre, the ogre one is the one that really cracks me up. Yeah, it really does. The following month, it was reported that investigators were looking into Heuerman in connection with the death of 29 year old Carmen Vargas, who was killed in 1989 in Freeport, about seven miles west of Heuerman's home in Massapequa. At a court hearing on September 27, 2023, prosecutors said that DNA from Heuermann's cheek swab matched the DNA from the pizza box linking him to a hair found on one of the victims. Defense attorney Michael Brown told CBS when asked about Heuerman's mood and demeanor. Well, he's somebody who has from the beginning said he's not guilty. I made it a point to tell him, just get through this, Rex. Get to the point where we can go to trial and don't show emotion. He's a fellow who was working, has never been arrested, has a wife and children. Okay. Those are all facts. I don't know what they mean in relation to whether or not he's guilty of these crimes. On January 16, 2024, Rex Herman was indicted for the death of a fourth victim, Maureen Brainard Barnes. And he kind of felt like it was just a matter of time.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. That they were going to get him on that one.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, you know, they were working hard to link it. He was linked to the murder via DNA from a female hair found in the buckle of a belt used to bind Maureen's ankles, feet and legs. The odds were 8 trillion to 1 that the hair matched Asa Ellerup or Victoria Heuermann. Authorities followed Victoria on a train and watched her throw out a drink. You know, again, I. I feel like that would be. I don't want to say fun, because I don't. I don't know that police work is fun, but in the grand scheme of things, you know, it's like a spy movie, right? You're following someone, you're waiting for them to. To discard something that you think might have DNA on it. Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

It's not like you can go up and ask him at that time because you're trying to build a case, so you kind of got to be, you know, secretive about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, if they know you're there, they're probably not going to throw anything away that they think they might have left their DNA on.

[Mike Gibson]

But, I mean, 8 trillion to 1,

[Mike Ferguson]

that's what we're used to hearing. Right. These numbers in the trillions, it's really to the exclusion of all others at that point. Prosecutors believed all hair transfers were made from Heuerman to the victims. His family was out of town during the murders of the Gilgo Beach 4. So I think, you know, when you go back to us talking in the last episode about, you know, his wife's hair or, you know, things like that being found. Well, they knew that she wasn't a part of the murders. Right. She wasn't even anywhere near town. He was committing these murders while his wife and kids were away.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ace's attorney, Robert Macedonio, told the media Asa Ellerup and her children were not involved, not even in the jurisdiction when these murders took place in March 2024. Herman's former neighbor, Etienne Devillier. I don't know why that's. It's fun to say, but I'm also messing it up almost every time.

[Mike Gibson]

Like, you noted that.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't even know if that's how you say it, but it's fun. Said that Asa told him she didn't think Rex was guilty.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but why wouldn't she? She's going to say that because if she thinks he's guilty, then she's like, I've. I've been with this monster. Monster all this time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. No, it doesn't surprise me because I don't know that he was a monster to her.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, there are a lot of killers who treat their significant other horribly. Right? Right. They're perpetrators of physical, emotional abuse, things like that. I'm not sure that this guy was. So. I think in a case like that, wife, children, they're even more shocked that he could be involved in all this,

[Mike Gibson]

you know, and when they were home, he probably was spending time with them. It was when they went away for the summer that he was, you know, doing these things.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

And they weren't there, so they didn't know what he was doing. They just assumed he was probably working.

[Mike Ferguson]

CBS quoted de Villier saying, that house is a mess and he was spending a fortune on hookers. I told her face to face, and she said, no, he wouldn't do that. I said, yes, he would. He was spending a fortune on call girls and wouldn't drop a dime on that house. I mean, people were really upset that he would not fix up this house. Dude.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe even more upset once they found out that he was spending what money they thought should have been used to fix up this house on sex workers.

[Mike Gibson]

Like, hey, you could have fixed that house up and made it look better in the neighborhood for all of us.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right? Which would have benefited us. But you were selfish and wanted to spend all your money on sex workers. Oh, and by the way, you killed a number of those sex workers. ASA issued a statement at that time saying, I will listen to all the evidence and withhold judgment until the end of the trial. I have given Rex the benefit of the doubt, as we all deserve. And I don't. I really don't blame her for that. No, I don't. Because again, I think up until, you know, it's proven, she believes that, you know, he's this good husband, the person that. That she thinks she knows.

[Mike Gibson]

I just can't see many wives just. I think I can see them walking into the. To the jail, you know, meeting their husband and saying, you know, what's this about you hiring all these sex workers and this other stuff, you know, Tell me now. You better tell me the truth. I already know the truth. So go ahead and tell me the truth. You know, just kind of like getting into their face like an investigator would, but more.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, well, you scared me. I feel like you've done that before.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Like you've literally delivered that line in a jail at some point.

[Mike Gibson]

I just feel like, you know, a wife would not just, he's innocent. I, you know, I'm sure she. She had to have a conversation with him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but what's he gonna say, yeah, yeah, I did all that or no, honey, you know me, I would have never done that.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You'll see at trial, all the evidence is going to come out. I have to imagine. Although, I don't know, but I have to imagine that he probably said, you know, something like that. Aces attorney also said, you can go forward with the divorce and still not believe that Your spouse of 27 years is capable of being a serial killer. And that's the thing that I think we have to keep in mind. Right? It's not like they'd been married two or three years. No, 27 years is a long time.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

I said it. I just had my 30 year anniversary. Do you know how shocked my wife and kids would be if it came out that I was a serial killer?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, they would be very shocking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. If it came out that you were my wife would be like, I told you that. I told you that years ago, 10 years ago. And she has told me that a number of times. I think Gibby is a serial killer.

[Mike Gibson]

The fact that she keeps telling you Again and again, I have to talk to her about that.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, 30 years is a long time to be married. And again, I. I think you kind of hit on it, but, you know, what does that say about you?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or what do you think in your mind? That's. That people are going to think about me. I've stayed with this man for all these years who may be a killer if it. If it turns out to be true. Well, what are they going to say about me?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You don't want to believe it to be true because it changes everything you ever knew.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And it's going to change your life. Right. Dramatically. It appears that Herman's defense would focus on corrupt former police chief James Burke. At a hearing in April 2024, defense attorney Michael Brown suggested the real killer might have eluded arrest when Burke was running the investigation. He even suggested Burke might have been involved in the four murders. He said there were numerous leads alluding to Burke's involvement, but he didn't offer more details. Okay. I think that's a good defense tactic, Right?

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm. I'm casting, like, a little bit of doubt. I don't have any proof. I'm. I can't give you anything. But, you know, we don't know that it wasn't this guy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Because, you know, he was into some strange things.

[Mike Ferguson]

After the hearing, Brown referred to reporting from the Washington Post that suggested in 2021, investigators focused on a retired police officer who lived near Heuerman and planned to arrest him. Now, this was disputed by former DA Tim Sini. However, bringing up Burke's corruption would allow Brown to question how evidence was obtained and handled, which could lead to reasonable doubt at trial. And I have always said it, but you write trials are like a chess match. Each side's making moves and countering moves and, you know, things which on the surface may not seem to make a lot of sense have. Do make sense once you learn the. The overarching goal. Yeah, I guess, for lack of a better term.

[Mike Gibson]

Correct. That show, the Lincoln Lawyer kind of.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which is a great show.

[Mike Gibson]

It really is.

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[Mike Ferguson]

See full [e-mail] James Burke's lawyer, James O', Rourke, said that Brown was exploiting a giant conspiracy theory. And Jimmy Burke has a lot of things. Some of them are less than admirable. But he's not a killer. That same month, investigators used cadaver dogs to search a remote wooded section of Manorville close to where partial remains were found. In the early 2000s, neither of the Manorville victims had been linked to Rex, and officials wouldn't say what prompted the search. But on June 6, 2024, Rex was charged with two more murders, the 1993 murder of Sandra Castilla and the 2003 murder of Jessica Taylor. Now, Castilla's death had not been previously linked to the Gilgo beach serial killings. Sandra was from Trinidad and Tobago, but was living in New York City when she disappeared. On November 20, 1993, two hunters near Old Fish Cove Road in North Sea. The Hamplet hamlet. Yeah, almost said Hamnet.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know what I said you're thinking of.

[Mike Ferguson]

Didn't come out.

[Mike Gibson]

You're. You're thinking of Hamlet's son, Hamnet.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but it's a hamlet in Southampton. They found her remains. This is about an Hour east of Gilgo Beach. Sandra was found lying on her back with her arms outstretched over her head. There were indications of sexual assault and she had multiple sharp force injuries. She was last seen the day before November 19th. Now, her death was originally linked to convicted killer John Bitroff, who authorities mentioned as a potential suspect.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

In the Gilgo beach killings back in 2017. We talked about him in a previous episode, but the three male hairs found on Sanders body did not match Bitroll. And we actually talk about it a lot. You know, when you have convicted killers, known killers, especially serial killers, does it not make sense to try to link some unsolved cases to these individuals? You already know they're capable of murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I think it happens quite a bit. The DNA just kind of here disproved that. It was bit Rolf. The Lab determined that 99.96 of the North American population could be excluded as a contributor of the male hair found on Castilla. But Rex Herman was not a part of the group that could be excluded.

[Mike Gibson]

So there you go, you know, you can lock him in on that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now it is a. It is a far cry from the number that we talked about. The 6 or the 8 trillion to 1.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

99.96% of the North American population is a lot of people. There are what, 330 or 340 million now? I don't know what the number is.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, there were 30 million in Canada. So, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, that's right. You gotta include Canada.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right.

[Mike Gibson]

Close to 400 million.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. That's all there is in all of Canada.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I think it's only like 30 some million. I don't know. It's not that much. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That doesn't seem right. Canada's huge.

[Mike Gibson]

Whether it's huge, it's got a lot of land.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does. Right. I know it's densely sparsely populated in certain sections, but.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

30 million.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Could I be off?

[Mike Ferguson]

I think you could be. I don't know what the number is. You could be spot on. You do spend a lot of time in Canada, so I'm surprised you don't know the answer. So much so that I think you're getting free health care at this point, which they might want to look into.

[Mike Gibson]

They probably want me to pay some taxes when I cross that border.

[Mike Ferguson]

Exactly. But it's still. It's still a really high percent, Right. That he. The hair belongs to him.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But if you're a defense attorney, you can still argue that It's. There's, there's 0.04%. It's not him.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah. You can hang on to whatever you want to.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

I feel like. Like there was a show we watched. I don't know if it was Seinfeld, but it was like. But there's still a chance, you know?

[Mike Ferguson]

So you're telling me there's a chance?

[Mike Gibson]

Yes. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

DNA evidence from Sandra's case was compared to DNA from the gilgo case. In 2014, another lab independently confirmed the DNA testing. A male hair was found on a surgical drape under Jessica's body. That hair was tested in 2023, and once again, 99.96% of the Northern North American population could be excluded. Ex. But not Rex Herman.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I think, you know, prosecutors are ecstatic. You know, they're like, okay, another slam dunk. We already know what the defense is going to come back and say. You know, they're going to try to play on this.04%, but we're not concerned.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Because. Okay, look at it as one case. Right. All this huge percentage is excluded. He's not. Yeah, but then you have another body, and then you have one case that's 8 trillion to one. And then you. You know, you have all these that are stacking up. So it's not just one. So now what's the. What are the odds that he can't be excluded from all of these different ones?

[Mike Gibson]

It's kind of compounded against him.

[Mike Ferguson]

It goes up exponentially. Right. The. The idea that it. That it is him. Also, Rex worked in the same area as Jessica at the time of her murder. He was also in Midtown on July 25, 2003, the day she disappeared. He also would have been in possession of a vehicle matching the description from a witness at the scene by the dump site. So now let's. What are the odds that he can't be excluded? He's in the same vicinity from where she disappeared, and he's also in possession of a vehicle. The numbers get crazy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. It's starting to stack up even more

[Mike Ferguson]

and more at a certain point that how could it not be him? Right. Prosecutors noted that Heuerman accessed a Newsday article titled cops seek help in IDing Manorville body, about the discovery of Jessica's remains. After Jessica's body was found, he allegedly tried to cover up an Internet search for a new truck, despite the fact that his vehicle was just over a year old.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but he probably said, I got to get rid of this thing, because they.

[Mike Ferguson]

Somebody. Somebody might have seen me.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The latest indictment also Revealed that Herman kept a planning document that was described as a blueprint for murder. The document was found on one of 350 electronic devices seized from his home. It was created in 2000 and modified over several years.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, a playbook, really.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now I feel like I own a lot of electronic devices. 350 is a boatload.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. You have. Are you counting all your little tiny ones that you use?

[Mike Ferguson]

No.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay. But you do have a lot.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now, he also had, like, 300 guns. So I don't know what's going on with this dude. He won't fix up his house, but he's got a vault with 300 guns and he has 350 electronic devices.

[Mike Gibson]

But, you know, to have something on there that basically is the blueprint for

[Mike Ferguson]

a murder and to revise it over the. The years, it's not going to be good evidence. It's going to be good evidence against you. It's not going to be good for you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's not going to bode well for him.

[Mike Ferguson]

The document contained instructions for how to select and kill victims and dispose of bodies. It contained headings such as supplies, problems with DNA listed as the top item under the problems heading.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, isn't that funny, though? What he had listed as the top problem is turned out to be his top problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, well, I mean, he. I don't think he was a dummy. I think he was a fairly intelligent guy. So he knew that DNA was probably the. The thing that he really needed to worry about the most. My thought is, though, you can take all the precautions in the world, but as we talked about earlier, how do you know that one of your wife's hairs is clinging to your coat or your pants or something like that and is going to get transferred?

[Mike Gibson]

Unless you're stripping down naked, shaving every piece of hair off of your body?

[Mike Ferguson]

No, it's just a disturbing image that I now have in my head. I wish you wouldn't. And you're acting like a. Like an ape or something. I don't. Please don't do that.

[Mike Gibson]

And then go through some type of machine that washes you and blow. Dries you off, and then put on a. Like the hazmat suit and then go out and do your business in a car that was never yours, that nobody you knew ever was in it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Where are you getting this machine from? Do you have one of these machines?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm just saying that it's going to be almost impossible.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it's a lot harder than people think. I really do which is a good thing, because we don't want these people to get away with these crimes. The supply list included items such as booties, lie, acid and a police scanner. Yeah, okay, I get it. Some people are list makers. My wife is a list maker.

[Mike Gibson]

She is.

[Mike Ferguson]

But she's also not a serial killer. So, yeah, no harm, no foul. If you are a serial killer, probably not a great idea to keep this evidence, this type of evidence, just lying around. But my thought is, and I have the same with a lot of killers, almost every killer, I just don't think they think they're going to get caught.

[Mike Gibson]

No, I don't think so either. But, I mean, if anything, at least, you know, I change the words up. Like, put the. The. The last letter of the word at first and, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, because nobody could crack that code at the FBI. They have people that literally do this for a living. They can't crack that simple.

[Mike Gibson]

They're like, what is this word?

[Mike Ferguson]

We.

[Mike Gibson]

We don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

This is like the. The Zodiac cipher. We're never going to figure this out. What are you thinking? There was a section titled Body Prep, which contains steps to clean, clean and dismember bodies, and the packaging for. Of bodies for transport. There were notes about removing tattoos and other identifying marks.

[Mike Gibson]

And we know he removed at least one. At least one.

[Mike Ferguson]

At least one we know of. But, you know, this is so specific, Gibbs. I mean, this. It's not like you could even argue that this is a list that you were going to go buy for some construction work or a camping trip or something like that. You were literally talking about cleaning or how to clean and dismember bodies.

[Mike Gibson]

And, you know, they're saying it's getting updated throughout time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sure.

[Mike Gibson]

Okay. I mean, can't maybe. I don't know if they can. Can they go back and see when it was updated and see if it correlates with maybe, you know. Okay, so you changed your list here because you. You came across something new with this victim, and you want to make sure the next victim, you were prepared.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's entirely possible. Another section titled Post event listed tasks such as burning gloves, disposing of pictures, changing car tires, and setting up an alibi. I mean, this guy, you know, you might as well just hand this thing to the jury and say, can convict me now.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, here's everything I did.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

The pre prep section included steps such as checking the weather, setting up staging area, and checking an area for surveillance cameras. You're also really ramping up the premeditation here.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh for sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

You're not going to be able to argue that this was a spur of the moment, heat of the moment act when you're checking for surveillance cameras and all that.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean it seems like he's being really thorough.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well again, he's an architect. Yeah, I think they're very detail oriented. This reminds me of somebody in a profession like that. The prep section outlined tasks such as building a table with a crossbar underneath to support heavier objects. The document had specific sites for disposal of physical evidence. Then there was this section, Things to Remember and it included lessons learned from previous murders such as the use of heavier rope since lighter ones broke under the stress of being tightened.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean as a prosecutor I'm like, I'm Liking this right here when it

[Mike Ferguson]

might be part of the modifications. Yeah, right. It's the after action report or whatever you want to call it. He's going back and saying what went wrong with previous encounters. The document had a note about the importance of sleep to avoid problems and to increase playtime. Believed to be a reference to sexual mutilation and acts against victims.

[Mike Gibson]

Make sure you get good quality sleep so you can not have any problems and increase your play time. Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

And problems was capitalized. So was the play and playtime. And I just wonder if problems, and I think they're trying to argue this does refer to maybe not being able to, you know, get an erection. I. I don't know. Yeah, I think that they're trying to make that. That argument.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

As. As maybe that being part of it. The document also referenced the 1996 book Mindhunter by John Douglas. Other books by the same author were found in Herman's house. I have all those books.

[Mike Gibson]

They're right over there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep, they're right over here. And they're good, Right. John Douglas, famed FBI profiler. The show is also very good.

[Mike Gibson]

The show is very good.

[Mike Ferguson]

I want it to come back.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

At a news conference announcing the charges, DEA Raymond Tierney said Herman was the lead suspect in the death of Valerie Mack, whose remains were found near Jessica's in Manorville.

[Mike Gibson]

That's not really surprising, though.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. I have to believe that they thought for quite a while that he, he was involved in most, if not all of these suspected, you know, Gilgo slash Long island serial killer cases.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, we did that unsolved this, you know, this, this week. And in my mind, I'm like, maybe he drove on down to Atlantic City.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe. We. We don't know. Tierney noted that an analysis of humans seized devices showed a significant collection of violent bondage, torture related pornography dating back to 1994. And I don't know. I don't know what that does to somebody's brain.

[Mike Gibson]

Not going to be good. I mean, if you're looking at violent torture pornography and that's what gets you off, how long can you look at that stuff before you need to actually experience?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and, and that's kind of what we've heard from a lot of serial killers. And you can see it in their backgrounds, right. They progress. It starts as fantasy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe peeping, stealing underwear off the clothesline, you name it, Right. It runs the gamut of what people do. But then at a certain point, it stops being fantasy to them and they make it reality. Tierney said it's alleged that the pornographic images that were accessed by Heuermann are consistent with the crime scenes of both Sandra Castilla and Jessica Taylor. So not only is he watching all of this when he does commit his murders. I hate to say it, but it's almost as if he's using. This stuff is a playbook for, you know, what he's going to do.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, these are his fantasies.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tierney said about the planning document. We allege that this document evidences the defendant's intent in committing the charge crimes, that his intent was specifically to locate these victims, hunt them down, and to bring them under his control and kill them at the time of the charges. And ASA Ellerup released a statement saying she had not Met Rex in 1993 and did not believe he's capable of any other alleged crimes.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, what else is she going to say at this. At that time?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. The statement said, today's indictment further illustrates that ASA Ellerup has no involvement in any of the alleged crimes that her estranged husband, Rax Heuerman, has been charged with. Ms. Ellerup married Rex in 1996. She was not residing with him in the Massapequa park domicile in 1993, the year Ms. Castillo was murdered. Moreover, according to the government, at the time of the death of Ms. Taylor, Ms. Ellerup was, once again, not in this jurisdiction.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't think people are thinking she had anything to do with this.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. I think that's what she's trying to make sure of, though, with this statement.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Distance herself.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't. I don't know if she's saying, oh, my husband didn't do this. Now, at this point, I think she's just making sure everybody knows, hey, I hadn't even met this guy. Yeah. In 1993. But it did say, after 27 years, she maintains the belief that her estranged husband is not capable of committing these heinous acts.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. Why? You don't want to believe it because you were with somebody for that long. Like we said earlier, once you. Once you acknowledge it, what does it say about you as a person?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, and I literally. I'm not blaming her at all.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Assuming she didn't have anything to do with any of the criminal acts, which I don't believe she did. I don't even think she was anywhere near the places where these occurred. I think it would be natural for a lot of spouses to just not be able to believe that their partner was. Was capable of this. According to cbs, Herman was living with another woman at his Massapequa park home before Sandra Castillo was killed. His wife and children were in Vermont when Jessica Taylor was killed in 2003. On December 17, 2024, Rex Heuermann was charged with the murder of 24 year old Valerie Mack, who was working as an escort in Philadelphia in 2000 when she went missing. Heuerman told the judge, your honor, I'm not guilty of any of these charges. And this marked the first time he had spoken in court since his arrest in July 2023. According to court documents, hairs found near Valerie severed wrist were linked to Heuerman's estranged wife and Asa Ellarup and his daughter to the exclusion of, again, 99.65, this time, of the North American population. But here's the thing, right? We talk about how his wife and kids weren't really anywhere, even at home at the time of most of these murders. But the other thing is, his daughter would have been a very young child at the time of the murder. And there's no one that's going to believe that she committed this murder.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

With her mom or however you want to spin it.

[Mike Gibson]

All three of them went out together and did this as a group.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. Or that they went with him or anything like that. Court documents also noted that pornographic images of sexual torture found on Heuerman's electronic devices showed bindings similar to rope ligatures found on Valerie's remains. Heuerman also reached out to a plumbing company for draining. Draining of his home's pipes after the murder. That's pretty interesting.

[Mike Gibson]

That is interesting. What was he flushing down those pipes?

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know. Now, a lot of people, you know, have been caught from blood in their drain. I don't know if that. If it was something like that or if he was trying to get rid of something and something got caught.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

No idea. Court documents further allege that in his planning document, he referenced the dump site as Mill Road. Valerie's remains were found near Mill Road in Manorville. I think it's hard to overstate how big a deal this planning document was.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it's a huge discovery for the prosecutor.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you're on the jury and they lay out this planning document and then they're able to tie it to different murders. You got that, you got the DNA, you've got the. The burners, the cell records, it would be hard for anybody to say, oh, I think. I don't think this guy did it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

It really would be. There's just a. There's a lot more evidence here than a lot of the cases we talk about.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think that's pretty easy to say. DA Raymond Tierney said that all this evidence was consistent with the murders occurring in the Massapequa park home. Valerie's tattoos were removed, and a similar cutting instrument was used to dismember Jessica Taylor. And I do find that to be very interesting as well. All the forensic type evaluations, you know, when. And this is kind of morbid, but, you know, they can go as far as is looking at some of the remains in the tool marks. Right. And macro microscopically matching them to another set of remains and say, oh, the same tool was used on both. That is unbelievable to me.

[Juan Naula]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

How they can do that again.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's my whole thing about how is anybody getting away with anything these days?

[Mike Gibson]

Very difficult.

[Mike Ferguson]

But they. They still are.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's the scary part.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, look, he was able to do this for a long period of time.

[Mike Ferguson]

He really did. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, that's. That's the sad thing about it, you know, but once they were able to get on his trail, then that's when it fell apart for him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. It all kind of started to fall together pretty quickly, I think. Or pretty well, you'd have to say.

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[Mike Ferguson]

On April 8, 2026, Rex Heuerman pleaded guilty to killing seven women between 1993 and 2011 and admitted to killing an eighth. In exchange for his guilty plea, he wouldn't be charged with the murder of Karen Vergata, who was identified in 20, 23. He originally faced 10 murder charges for seven murders. Three of those cases were charged as both first degree and second degree murder. Three double upped. Charges were dismissed with his plea. So, I mean, I guess he got out of some charges, but in the grand scheme of things, he ain't never seen the light of day.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. So why not go ahead and admit to it? If you did it, why not admit to everything you did? Why? What's why? Hold back.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know. I can see why. Maybe he just went ahead and. And wanted to plead guilty because by this point, he had to know the mountain of evidence.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Against him. There's just no way that he was getting around it.

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe. I doubt this is why, but maybe he didn't want to put the victim's families. Maybe he didn't want to put his, you know, his wife and his kids through, you know, these long trials.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I. I would say maybe his wife and kids.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know if he gave a, you know, what about the victim's families now, maybe he could have. Maybe there were some things he just didn't want to come out in open. He didn't want to come out in open court.

[Mike Gibson]

That could been very, very much true,

[Mike Ferguson]

you know, because there was more gruesome details to come out that, you know, he just said, I'm going to be convicted anyway. Let's just wrap this thing up. I. I really don't know. At a news conference, Suffolk County DA Raymond Tierney apologized to the families and commended the authorities, saying he thought by killing them, he could silence them forever and get away with murder. He tried to present himself as the harmless father next door, but he was wrong. There was no negotiation for a reduced sentence. It was Heuerman's decision to plead guilty, and the families were asked if they wanted to accept the plea or go to trial. They agreed to accept the plea. And I don't blame him. I mean, justice is going to be done. Right. He's never getting out of prison ever. We haven't talked about his sentence, but, you know, he's never getting out of prison. And the family doesn't have to hear some of the details. Yeah. Which, you know, would be very hard for them.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, you also look at it. It with the plea. It's a slam dunk. It's done. Oh. Don't have to worry about anything going wrong at the trial. Even though it looks pretty solid. Could something come out at the trial that ends up backfiring?

[Mike Ferguson]

Could the other thing that prosecutors Talk about a lot is what that does as far as appeals later on.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which is a. Is a really big deal. So I. I could understand why everybody involved thought the. The plea deal was. Was a good idea. So he admitted to meeting all eight victims, strangling them, and dumping their bodies. He also agreed to cooperate with the FBI as part of his plea. His sentencing is set for June 17th. Yeah, so as of right now, we're in May. It's. I don't know when this comes out, but when we're taping this, it's in May, so it's a. About three weeks away from where we sit right now. I mean, I think there's no doubt he's expected to receive life in prison.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Without parole, a bunch of consecutive life sentences, maybe a number of sentences of something like 25 years to life. Heuerman's defense attorney, Michael Brown, told reporters outside court that the guilty plea brought a sense of relief for Heuerman. He said, when you have that type of stuff in your head and on your body, I think by admitting it, it's cathartic to some extent, maybe.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. I just think he knew he was caught.

[Mike Gibson]

I think he. The gig was up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I really think he probably had conversations with his attorney. I'm sure he had a really good idea of all the evidence that was, you know, against him, and he just thought, there's no way. There's no way a jury is not going to find me guilty. Let's get it over with and we'll move on. When asked whether his client has expressed remorse, he said Heuerman is likely to have something to say in Court on June 17th. So that. That will be interesting. Right. It's still yet to come. We'll have to see. He said that Herman will not provide details of how he committed the crimes. At the sentencing hearing, Brown added, he certainly wanted to save the families of the victims. The ordeal of going to trial coupled with saving his family from that. So I think you said that. I mean, it could be. Or the defense attorney just could be saying that. Heuerman's ex wife, Asa, and their daughter attended the hearing. Asa and her attorney briefly addressed reporters, saying, my thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Their loss is immeasurable, and the focus should be on them at this time in the moment. Melissa can, the sister of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, said, there's finally a sense of relief. Today is not about the person responsible. Today is about the women's lives who were stolen, about their voices, their Future, their families. They are the reason we are here.

[Mike Gibson]

Well said.

[Mike Ferguson]

Very well said. I mean, you've got to put this guy away. Right. He has to be held accountable for his actions, but they're not there for him. Everybody is there for the victim.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

She also addressed other families going through something similar, saying, keep going. Your loved ones matter. They're not forgotten. And one day, answers can come. And that's a very powerful statement as well, because we, you and I, do an unsolved podcast, and we're always talking about how, you know, these families, they just don't. They won't give up.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they shouldn't, but they. They say it. We're never giving up.

[Mike Gibson]

They're troopers, man.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think this is proof. And we see a lot of cases like this where even 20, 30, 40 years later, some of these cases can be solved and the victims can get justice. Luckily, in this case, he was still alive to face justice. But after the guilty plea, it was reported that Asa Elup was still living in the Pass Massapequa park home and even sleeping in the basement, which has been called the kill room.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know about that.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's a tough one.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I. Is there not a Motel 8 down the road? I get it. Motels are, you know, expensive. But I. I don't know that. That I want to live. Now. She did live there for, what, 27 years?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or so.

[Mike Gibson]

It's the home. She knows.

[Mike Ferguson]

She does know the home well, but she now also knows that most likely people were killed inside that home.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So that's got to factor in a little bit, Right. When you lay your head down on

[Mike Gibson]

the pillow putting that home on the market.

[Mike Ferguson]

But who's gonna buy it?

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know. There's probably somebody somewhere that says, I want to buy that home.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, somebody will probably turn into some wacky museum maybe or something. Asa said she constantly relives the horrific things that happened in the home. Yeah, that's what happens if you're still going to live in the home.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In an episode of the Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets, Asa revealed that she's redone the basement where Rex told her he murdered and dismembered victims.

[Mike Gibson]

Listen, you can redo it all you want.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, this is an HGTV Rock the block.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. It still happened. Redoing it doesn't take away what happened there.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I'm not putting her down.

[Mike Gibson]

Not at all.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't want to be negative against her. I don't think she had anything to do with this. I just think, man, I don't. I couldn't do it. No. She was asked what she wanted people to know about why she moved into the basement. She said the brutal truth is that Rex Herman said he dismembered the bodies in this room. That is the brutal truth. Okay. Now, there's me. I'm in this room, and I'm here because I do feel spiritual. I'm trying to say spiritually, in my own way, that I'm really sorry for what these victims went through. I'm haunted by dreams every night. It will never go away. It will follow me for the rest of my life. Okay. I'm not sure I understand that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't either. I. I think. I think it's going to. It's haunting you because you are in the area that the horrific things happened,

[Mike Ferguson]

and not just in the area, in the house. I just wonder if maybe she's also feeling some survivor's guilt, because we know that can happen as well.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just don't know. I really don't. As a condition of his guilty plea, Herman was allowed to meet one on one with Asa and their daughter Victoria to confess to them before doing so in court. It's got to be tough. They asked him to explain his motives, but he didn't explicitly state what pushed him to kill, Victoria recalled. He said that his demons got to him. She asked her father if he ever stopped to consider that the victims were someone's family. And he responded that he didn't really think of the women as human beings.

[Mike Gibson]

There you go.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think that is pretty telling.

[Mike Gibson]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

And also pretty consistent with serial killers.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I don't think that they see their prey, and I'm using that word on purpose, as human beings. I think they see their victims as prey, and therefore, maybe they. They are able to kill. Most of us can't or wouldn't kill because we do see other people as human beings, and we don't want to take someone's life away. Heuerman revealed that he choked the first victim to death inside his truck in November 1993. This was the only murder that wasn't planned, he said. It just happened.

[Mike Gibson]

Was the catalyst for everything that happened after that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Could have been. But he did say the other victims were all planned and were killed in the basement when his family was away. Again, not a place that I want to sleep. No, not at all. Although the Long island serial killer has been identified and multiple victims have been to Link to Rex. There are still additional cases of victims found on the beach that remain unsolved. Shannon Gilbert's cause and manner of death are still listed as undetermined. Police still believe that based on the evidence, she wasn't murdered. Yeah, and her death was most likely non criminal. But obviously there are people that don't believe that. Perhaps one of the biggest developments is that the Jane Doe that we talked about called Peaches and her daughter have been identified. In April 2025, with the help of genetic genealogy, Peaches and her daughter were identified as 26 year old Tanya Jackson, a US army veteran and her two year old daughter Tatiana Dykes. And we mentioned it earlier, right. Tanya was found in Hempstead Lake State park in Lakeview, New York on June 28, 1997. Tanya's daughter was found 20 miles away along Ocean Parkway near Gilgo beach in April 2011. Tanya, originally from Mobile, Alabama, served in the army from 93 to 95. She and her daughter were living in Brooklyn and were estranged from their family at the time of their deaths. They were identified in 2023. Law enforcement developed investigative leads pointing to Tatiana's father, Andrew Dykes as a suspect. Dykes was a married father of two and met Tanya when they were stationed at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio. He was listed as Tatiana's father on her birth certificate. He was transferred to Fort Hamilton in Brooklyn in 1995. Tanya and Tatiana soon joined him there. Before they went missing, Tatiana had been honorably discharged from the army and was a single mother living in Brooklyn Sunset park neighborhood. She was possibly working as a doctor's medical assistant. She might have had a female friend or neighbor watching her baby. Dyke served in the army until 2001 as a military instructor specializing in anatomy and physiology. He then worked as a Florida State Trooper.

[Mike Gibson]

Busy guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, he. After identifying the bodies, investigators surveilled Dykes in Tampa and recovered a cup and straw he threw in the trash. His DNA was linked to DNA from Tanya's remains.

[Mike Gibson]

You know what I have learned is that I am not going to throw my trash anywhere public. I'm taking it home with me and then I will burn it inside my home.

[Mike Ferguson]

What does it matter? You just said, you've said a million times, your DNA is all over this place.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true. It really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'll just have them come down here and swab your chair. Yeah, they'll get you.

[Mike Gibson]

They'll get me.

[Mike Ferguson]

He was 66 years old and was arrested on December 3, 2025 and then indicted on December 18, he was charged with second degree murder for Tanya's death. There wasn't enough evidence to move forward with a murder charge for Tatiana's death, but he is believed to be responsible. The case is currently proceeding. So that's interesting in that again, you kind of just maybe assumed, or many people assumed that it was human. What did strike me as being so different in that one is the, the, the very young child, two year old. So now that could have been an outlier, but turns out it wasn't him at all.

[Mike Gibson]

Do you think, you know, at one point maybe dykes was thinking, I think I'm in the clear.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, I guarantee it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Either they're never going to catch me because it's been so long, or they're going to pin it on this guy.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, they're going to group it in

[Mike Ferguson]

with this guy and I'm going to get away with it. And now, finally, as we wrap up this case, we have to talk about the identity of the Asian male found on gilgo beach on April 4, 2011. His identity is still unknown. The victim was found wearing women's clothing. It's possible that they identified as a woman or were known by others as a woman. Investigators believe the victim died in 2006 or earlier from blunt force trauma. The victim was between 17 to 23 years old, about 5 foot 6, and wearing a blue ribbed short sleeve shirt, women's pants and a bra. The victim may have been a sex worker and spent time in New York City. One challenge in this particular case is that Asian people are underrepresented in the genealogy database. And I did not know that. I did not either, but there were a number of articles that talked about it. So the Long island serial killer case is coming to a resolution right in the courts, but there are still a lot of questions remaining. The public doesn't really know many details of Rex Heuerman's motivations for killing sex workers. And I don't know if he's going to give them. It's possible that maybe one day he'll be willing to give a detailed public confession or that additional murders could be linked to him in the future. And I think that is a tough part of the case, you know, and the motivation could just simply be that he was addicted to pornography. He wanted to experience those things in real life.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And he felt as though this was the only way he could do it. I really have no idea. It could have been sexual in nature. I, I mean, I think it was.

[Mike Gibson]

I do too. I think it had Something. A combo nation.

[Mike Ferguson]

A combo combo nation. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Had a, you know, something to do with his. How his mom and him. His relationship with his mom.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Because that was strange.

[Mike Gibson]

It was. And I think that had something to do with it along with his, you know, fetish fantasy. Whatever you want to say about the type of pornography that he liked.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. The bondage, the torture.

[Mike Gibson]

And I think it just kind of, you know, steamed. Rolled from there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, you and I have covered so many serial killers, and the one thing that, you know, never ceases to mystify me is how these guys can somehow gain sexual gratification from murder. Yeah. Sometimes, you know, we've heard people talk about it. The striking of blows is somehow sexually gratifying.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. I'll never understand it. But I also, Even though we're not surprised we've been doing this for 10 years, I still don't understand how people can make the decision to kill people. I just can't.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I don't understand it either.

[Mike Ferguson]

So.

[Mike Gibson]

And. And with him, you know, they have their victim count, but I. I really believe he's probably killed more.

[Mike Ferguson]

I guarantee it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I guarantee. With a guy like Herman who was operating for that many years.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And doing it the way he was doing it. Because he's not going to volunteer. No. Right. Additional victims that they don't know about. But I'm sure that at some point they will link additional cases to him. I bet you anything. But that's it for our entire series on Rex Heuerman, the Gilgo beach murders, the Long island serial killer. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Sa.

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[Ryan Reynolds]

Halt.

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