Louisa Dunne

Summary

True Crime All The Time – Episode 471: The Louisa Dunn Case

Hosts: Mike Ferguson ("Ferg") and Mike Gibson ("Gibby")
Release Date: February 9, 2026

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode delves into the brutal 1967 rape and murder of 75-year-old Louisa Dunn in Bristol, England—a cold case that went unsolved for 58 years before forensic advances led to the conviction of 92-year-old Ryland Headley. Ferguson and Gibson break down the investigation, discuss societal and legal themes, and offer insight into how advances in forensic science finally brought justice for Louisa and her family.

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Case Overview & Historical Context

• Victim: Louisa Dunn, born 1892, England. Twice married, known as a well-liked resident in her Bristol neighborhood; estranged from family but close to neighbors (06:59–10:08).
• Timeline:
  • June 28, 1967: Louisa’s body is discovered by neighbor Violet Allen. She had been raped and strangled in her home (12:00–13:10).
  • Initial investigation fingerprints 19,000 men, collects 1,300 statements, and finds an undentified palm print but no lead (13:42–16:19).

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Louisa Dunn’s Life & Family

• Married to Teddy Parker, a union leader and local Labor Party politician. Their home was a hub of political activity.
• "She must have been in the position of a lot of women, where she ran the house and looked after the children while he went on with his career." — Mary Dainton, Louisa’s granddaughter (08:10).

Discovery and Crime Scene

• Louisa was seen as a ‘people watcher’ on her doorstep, mirroring anecdotes from the hosts about their own families (10:08–11:41).
• After not seeing Louisa, concerned neighbors checked on her. Violet Allen found the body; authorities determined rape and asphyxiation (12:00–12:42).

Initial Investigation Challenges

• A large-scale but ultimately fruitless operation: "Investigators fingerprinted over 19,000 men in the area, and they took 1,300 statements. That’s a big chore." — Mike Ferguson (13:42).
• A palm print at the scene didn’t match anyone local; technology limitations meant manual, time-consuming checks (14:27–15:52).

Preservation of Evidence

• The case was re-examined in 2009 and 2013 but again without a breakthrough.
• "That’s one of the things it always comes down to ... what was collected, how was it collected, and then how was it stored?" — Ferg (06:32).

Breakthrough & Forensic Advances

• 2023: Crime Review Officer Joe Smith reopens the case: "When I saw that it was dated 1967, I knew we were only going to solve this through forensics." (17:07)
• Evidence was not stored in modern forensic bags, prompting skepticism about usefulness.
• By spring 2024, Louisa’s skirt and hair samples were lab-tested; semen was discovered and yielded a full DNA profile (21:42–22:02).

Identification of Ryland Headley

• DNA matched to Ryland Headley, a 92-year-old man in Ipswich. He fit the MO: in 1977, convicted of raping two elderly women (23:19).
• Notable: Headley had been convicted of the 1977 assaults but only served two years after his sentence was reduced due to doctors’ claims that sexual frustration caused by his marriage led to his crimes—a decision deeply critiqued by the hosts (24:32–26:14).

Notable Quote:

“How many of us aren’t [sexually frustrated]? How does it make it okay?” — Mike Ferguson (25:19)

Building the Case

• Fingerprints and palm print analysis confirmed Headley’s presence at Louisa’s home.
• Records showed Headley lived a mile and a half from Louisa in 1967 but was outside the original search area (28:56–29:15).
• By the time of his 2024 arrest, most direct witnesses from the 1960s and 1970s had died, so prosecution leaned on contemporaneous statements and forensic evidence.

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The Trial

• June 2025: Headley stood trial; the prosecution presented his violent past as evidence of character.
• Jury’s task articulated:
  “It would be perfectly natural…for you to feel that after 58 years someone should be found responsible…But that would be revenge and not justice.” — Jeremy Benson, defense lawyer (44:05).
• Verdict:
  • Guilty of rape (unanimous) and murder (10–2 majority) (44:58).
• Sentence:
  Life in prison, minimum 20 years: “You will never be released. You will die in prison.” — Judge (49:42).

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Impact Statements & Societal Reflections

The Victim’s Family

• Granddaughter Mary Dainton recounts intergenerational trauma; family withdrawal; the stigma around rape and murder (50:58–53:00).
• Quoting from her statement:
  “I don’t think my mother ever recovered from it. The anxiety clouded the rest of her life. … There’s a stigma attached to rape and murder in my experience, so I have rarely talked to anyone about this until now.”

Reflection on Justice & Misogyny

• Hosts sharply criticize the legal system’s treatment of sexual violence against elderly women, especially the leniency shown to Headley in 1977 (56:43–57:44).
• “What are you saying to women? We don’t value you. We don’t value your rights, your safety.” — Ferg (57:13).

Remaining Questions

• Women’s advocacy groups demand further investigation into Headley’s potential crimes.
• As of January 2026, no additional offenses have been linked to him, but the hosts doubt he “did nothing” between the known attacks (59:24–60:12).

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Notable Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On cold case closure:
  “Better late than never. You’d have to say that.” — Gibby (60:39)
• On discovering the past of ‘friendly neighbors’:
  “You might think you do, but nobody really knows their neighbors all that well.” — Ferg (33:10)
• On intergenerational pain:
  “They had to carry this for 50 plus years.” — Gibby (53:00)
• On sentencing and justice for the elderly victim:
  “You committed a heinous crime. You deserve to spend your last days in prison. You actually deserve to spend a lot longer than he will.” — Ferg (49:43)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Case Introduction: [05:28]
• Victim’s Background: [06:25–10:08]
• Discovery of the Body: [12:00–13:10]
• Early Investigation & Challenges: [13:42–15:52]
• Forensic Breakthrough: [17:07–22:02]
• Identification of Headley: [22:44–24:05]
• Legal Lapses in Rape Sentencing: [24:32–26:14]
• Confirmation of Suspect’s Location & Evidence: [28:56–30:11]
• Trial Details: [35:52–45:29]
• Victim Impact Statement & Family Impact: [50:58–53:00]
• Broader Reflections on Justice & Gender: [56:43–57:44]
• Ongoing Investigation & Unanswered Questions: [58:05–60:12]

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Tone & Presentation

• Ferguson and Gibson balance seriousness around the crime with conversational asides, dark humor, and personal anecdotes— keeping the tone engaging yet appropriately somber and critical when necessary.
• The hosts are openly critical of past legal leniency and societal indifference, especially regarding crimes against elderly and female victims.

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Summary

This episode shines a spotlight on the devastating, long-term impact of violent crimes, the persistence of investigators, and the profound advances in forensic technology that led to long overdue justice. The hosts thoughtfully discuss not only the facts of the case but also broader questions around societal attitudes to violence against women, justice delayed, and the emotional toll on victims’ families across generations.

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For listeners, this episode offers a comprehensive, empathetic, and thought-provoking examination of a historic UK cold case.

Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Foreign. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 471 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good, how about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I am doing amazingly. I'm so excited. We talked about it on Patreon but the studio is is coming together. I've had a few hiccups with not having what I needed, having to go out order things, but I believe next week we will be in the new studio.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, just remember I said measure twice before you cut. You did, but you decided to measure once and cut and so now you need more material.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that was my problem. I misunderstood you. But I am excited about it. It's coming together nicely and I think it's going to look great.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it's going to look really good.

[Mike Ferguson]

And, you know, that helps us out with putting some video on YouTube. But also that's the second episode every week.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I know people have been clamoring for more content, so they're going to get it. Hopefully everybody's ready for it. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jabin Hussein.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey. Jabean.

[Mike Ferguson]

Noah Nixon.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, hey, thanks. And Square.

[Mike Ferguson]

Laurie Smith. Laurie. Genevieve. Roland.

[Mike Gibson]

Genevieve. I love that name.

[Mike Ferguson]

Genevieve. Joe.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Joe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Debbie Klein.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on?

[Mike Ferguson]

Debbie and Stacy Oishi jumped out at our highest level. Yeah. I'm saying it different ways to hopefully keep changing it, encompass the correct version.

[Mike Gibson]

Could you say, hey, Stace?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you can. I have to say the whole name, though.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a lot of pressure on you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Everything's a lot of pressure on me. And if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Gia Pico.

[Mike Gibson]

Ada Gia.

[Mike Ferguson]

So appreciate all the support we get. We have an episode out right now on True Crime all the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Angelica Gandera. She went missing in 1985 while making this relatively short walk from her grandmother's house to her home in Temple, Texas. And this is a little bit different as far as Unsolved goes, you know, we're 40 plus years on, but authorities have identified what they've called two very strong suspects. But as of right now, no arrests have been made. So I, I think for people who normally can't handle unsolved, this one, you know, is fairly close, I believe, to being solved. So check it out, give it a listen. Also wanted to remind Everybody, you know, CrimeCon's coming up quick. I actually can't believe how soon it's we're going to be there.

[Mike Gibson]

Going to be there before we know it.

[Mike Ferguson]

If you haven't made your plans and you haven't bought your tickets and you're going to go to crimecon.com just make sure you use our promo code, TCAT. That'll save you a little bit of money off your standard badge. Yeah. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson]

You know I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

In June 1967, 75 year old Louisa Dunn was murdered inside her home in Bristol, England. The murder became one of the oldest cold cases in modern UK history. 58 years later, advancements in forensic technology helped authorities identify the killer. And we love advances in forensic technology. Right. We talk about a lot of cases where know that's how they're solved or on unsolved, we talk about that's probably what it's going to take, right, to solve some of these really cold cases. Now, more often than not, we're in the US Talking about US cases, but the same holds true for cases all around the world. And this is just another example of a case solved after almost six decades.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's a long time, but thank goodness. Right. They kept really good care of evidence.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And we'll get into all the particulars, but, you know, that's one of the things it always comes down to. Right. First of all, what was collected, how was it collected, and then how was it stored. And based on all that, are they able to get, you know, a viable sample when it comes to DNA? Louisa Dunn was born in England in 1892, when Queen Victoria was still on the throne.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's very British. Queen Victoria.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, the. Yeah, I don't know what that last accent was, but actually this whole episode is going to be very British because we are in England.

[Mike Gibson]

In England, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In 1915, Louisa married Teddy Parker, a union leader and Labor Party counselor. They had two daughters named Edna and Iris. Teddy and Louisa were involved in local politics, and their home was said to have been a hub of political activity.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like it was a lot of fun. Maybe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not sure how you're equating a hub of political activity with fun, but maybe, maybe that was fun to them.

[Mike Gibson]

Got all those players coming and going, you know, just watching, sitting back, taking it all in, learning from them.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and I can't help but think about, you know, one of our favorite TV shows, Peaky Blinders. Right. Takes place a little bit later than where we are in the story right here. But, you know, there is a lot of political things going on in the show.

[Mike Gibson]

There is.

[Mike Ferguson]

You have a lot of people who are into communism in England at the time. Louisa's granddaughter Mary Dainton, told the Guardian, mom said Gran used to join in with the political chat that went on in the house. My grandmother supported my grandfather. She must have been in the position of a lot of women where she ran the house and looked after the children while he went on with his career. And, and, you know, let's face it, I. I think that was the model for a lot of people, a lot of families going back into the early 1900s all the way up to what Gibbs, 1950s, 1960s, until things started to change a little bit, where more women were entering the workforce. And then it all. To me, it almost became like you had to have two incomes.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, exactly. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Unless you had one person who was making a boatload of money. I mean, you think about today, for so many people, it takes two incomes.

[Mike Gibson]

It does.

[Mike Ferguson]

To make it. Teddy was considered a potential mayoral candidate, but he suffered a stroke and was hospitalized in the early 40s. He died in 1945. In 1952, Louisa married John Dunn, a night watchman. John died in 1961. So she was married a couple of times. Her husbands Both died in 1967. Louisa was living alone in her home in the eastern neighborhood of Bristol. She was estranged from her family for unspecified reasons, but she did have a good group of friends in her neighborhood whom she saw regularly. She was a well known figure in Easton. Neighbors often saw her on her doorstep watching people pass by.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I love watching people passing by.

[Mike Ferguson]

It reminds me of my grandfather. I've probably said it on this podcast before, but he was the ultimate people watcher.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, if he wasn't outside kind of scoping things out, he was in his, like, living room window, you know, looking through the blind.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

He was so curious about what everybody was doing and it was almost like a hobby. He didn't have a lot of hobbies.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'll be honest with you. So that was kind of like his hobby.

[Mike Gibson]

I used to, you know, back in the day when I'd go to lunch. Well, we used to work at the old location. There's a place down there I would go to eat lunch some, a lot of times by myself by the time I was able to get lunch.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Because nobody else wanted to go with. I get it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I didn't want to say that, but thank you. But I go down there and I was eating, I'd be watching other people eating together and I'd be like making up what they're talking, talking about, you know, I just make up my own mind.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. As you were thinking to myself, man, I wish somebody would come eat with me. I will say my wife used to love to go to the mall.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I feel like nobody goes to the mall anymore. But back when the mall was a big deal, she used to love to go to the mall and we would walk and she would just. People watch or we'd sit on a bench and eat a hot pretzel. But she was mostly just people watching. Louisa lived a simple life. According to the Guardian, she supported herself with her pension and her prized possessions were her books.

[Mike Gibson]

Do you have a prize book in your collection?

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, I guess I'd have to say, you know, living on the edge. The Mike Gibson Story.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a pretty good book.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ghost written by Rex West.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it was like 500 some pages. It's a pretty deep read.

[Mike Ferguson]

Deep. Yeah, deep is not a word I would use. On June 28, 1967, Louise's neighbors were worried when they noticed that one of her windows was open and they hadn't seen her outside. Neighbor Violet Allen climbed through the open window and found Louisa's body in the front room of her home. Louisa had been raped and died of strangulation and asphyxiation. And you and I always talk about people finding a dead body. Sometimes it's a loved one, a family member. That has to be horrible. Sometimes it's a stranger. I still don't think that can be all that great. Right. For that person.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Here you have a neighbor who has some familiarity with the victim. That has to be very tough.

[Mike Gibson]

I think my greatest fear would be, like, what if no one noticed I was missing? How long would I be laying there before being discovered?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, unfortunately, it would probably be about a week before I checked up on you. You know, you're. You're here the same night every week.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And sometimes we talk in between recording sessions, but not always. And, you know, a whole week could go by before I would miss you. I mean, I'm not saying that to be mean or anything. It's just if you didn't show up, then I'd be. I'd start to get worried.

[Mike Gibson]

You text. But then would the text stop after I don't reply? Or would you take it to the next step and be like, reaching out to one of my kids, like, hey.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would probably do that. I don't think I'd drive up. You live pretty far away, actually.

[Mike Gibson]

But that's good to know.

[Mike Ferguson]

I would definitely try to maybe reach out to one of your brothers or your kids, something like that. So this is a violent scene. No doubt about it. Right, right. Rape and murder. Authorities launched a large scale effort to find the killer. Investigators fingerprinted over 19,000 men in the area, and they took 1300 statements. That's a big chore to fingerprint 19,000 people. Yeah, yeah, because this is the 1960s. Right. There's no technology where you can just put your fingers on a fingerprint reader. They. They would have had to have rolled them, you know, the old school with the ink and all that.

[Mike Gibson]

I'm thinking, are they just grabbing people off the street as they pass by?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I don't know what the criteria was, other than being a man. I guess if you were A man you were being fingerprinted. Now, 1300 statements, that's, that's going to take quite a while, too. Again, I don't know how they came up with the people who were going to be asked to do each of these. Investigators had a palm print on file that was found on a window at the back of Luis's home, but there was no match. So I'm assuming when it said they were fingerprinting 19,000 men, they were also taking the palm print too, because that's what they had. Now, does that mean that they then had to try to match all 19,000 of these?

[Mike Gibson]

It sounds like it to me because.

[Mike Ferguson]

That is taking even more time. It was just last week, right. We talked about the state of Oklahoma not having a computerized way to search for fingerprint matches. So obviously in the 60s, they definitely wouldn't have had that. So you're, you're, you're back to the old reviewing the person's prints against the lifted print. And that's a very manual process.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, very time consuming.

[Mike Ferguson]

The case was reviewed in 2009 and 2013, but there were still no hits in the national fingerprint database. So obviously by that point, quite a bit of time had gone by. Right. The case was cold to some degree, probably a large degree, but also by that time, computer systems and databases and all of that were a thing.

[Mike Gibson]

And you wonder if the suspect in the case was thinking, I'm good, I don't need to worry, they're never going to find me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I always wonder that because I think it's probably a mix. I think there are some people who are scared to death as time goes by and they're seeing on tv, Right. That this technology or that technology is coming online. You know, how worried are they that they're gonna finally catch me? Yeah, I think after a certain period of time goes by, there's probably a big sigh of relief and, you know, you're not worried about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

But then when the technology starts coming online, that's got to change it for you.

[Mike Gibson]

Then you're wondering, man, did I leave a print? Did I leave anything there that could come back and bite me?

[Mike Ferguson]

And then does it become kind of that waiting for the knock on the door? And if it is, to me, that's a really tough way to live. Now, you earned it, you deserve it because of what you did. In June 2023, Crime Review Officer Joe Smith with the Avon and Somerset police was asked to take a look at the case. Smith was formerly a police officer. Her role as a crime review officer is classified as a civilian job. Avon and Somerset's major and statutory review team has been looking at cold cases since 2008. Smith went to the police archive to retrieve 17 boxes of paperwork and evidence from the Louisa Dunn case. She told the Guardian. When I saw that it was dated 1967, I knew we were only going to solve this through forensics. So I went to the archive to look at the exhibits boxes. I opened the first one and put the lid back on again immediately. Most of our cold cases are in forensically sealed bags with barcodes and case reference numbers. These weren't. They just had brown cardboard luggage labels saying what they were. It meant that they'd never been subject to modern forensic examinations.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, how strange would that have been to see that though?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, strange but also maybe promising because they haven't been tested. So you might think, oh, okay, we could get a hit. Yeah, but at the same time, you know, they're sitting in what is essentially probably like what your mom used to send your lunch with with you in back in elementary school, a brown paper bag or something like that.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, brown bagged it.

[Mike Ferguson]

So you got to wonder, right, if there's something in here, are we going to be able to use it? Did it hold up? How was it collected all that stuff? Smith and her colleagues spent the rest of the day bagging items for testing. You know folks, I got really tired of standing in the grocery aisle and looking at labels trying to figure out what's good for me. That's why I have a membership to Thrive Market. Thrive Market is a membership based grocery service where you can shop from wherever you are. All you got to do is hop on their app. The membership breaks down to $5 a month and it gives members access to weekly sales, personalized shopping with filters, autoship and save, free gifts and peace of mind knowing there's no junk in any of the products they carry. Instead of paying fees on every grocery delivery order, you pay once for the year and benefit from it every time you shop. My wife and I order a lot from Thrive Market. Her favorite is the Smash Foods Raspberry Superfood Fruit Spread. She loves it. Now my favorite are the crisps from the Good Crisp Company, specifically sour cream and onion. They're amazing. The simple fact that I can shop specifically for high protein or low sugar through filters makes the membership a no brainer for me. Thrive Market gives you versions of all the foods you love with less sugar, fewer sketchy ingredients and more nutrition. Ready to make some healthy swaps and become a member. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com tcat for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. Nothing happened for the next eight months. Smith said, I was excited, but it wasn't met with a huge amount of enthusiasm. Let's just say there was some skepticism as to the value of submitting something so old to forensics. It wasn't seen as a priority and I get that. Right. You're talking about something that at that point is, you know, 50 years old. Plus there are obviously cases happening daily, weekly, yearly. Many of them would take priority over this.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. The urgency is just not going to be there.

[Mike Ferguson]

In the spring of 2024, authorities sent a blue skirt Louisa was wearing at the time of the murder and sample of her hairs to a forensic scientist for testing. They found semen on the skirt and a full DNA profile was developed in late August 2024.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. You think they were like high fiving each other?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think they were very excited, for lack of a better word about this finding. But I also go back to the perpetrator. Right. We talked about it. You asked the question, a question that the perpetrator would probably ask themselves over the years. What did I leave behind? We already know she was raped. We said that. Now, in 1967, there wasn't a lot you could do with semen, but once DNA came online and then obviously through the years as it advanced. Well, there was a lot you could.

[Mike Gibson]

Do with it, of course. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So if I'm the perpetrator and I'm sitting at home, I'm worried, I think.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you'd have to be.

[Mike Ferguson]

The DNA was put through a database and a match was identified. 92 year old Ryland Headley, a widower from Ipswich. In addition to the DNA match, Headley's criminal record made him a strong suspect. He was arrested for raping two elderly women in Ipswich in, in 1977. The victims were 79 and 84 years old.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, all rapists are terrible people.

[Mike Ferguson]

But yeah, I don't think there's any good ones.

[David Taylor]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

As far as I know, no.

[Mike Gibson]

But what I don't like about this guy is that he's targeting elderly women because they're vulnerable.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly why.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, could somebody have, I don't know if this is the right term, but, you know, a fetish for older women? I guess so. But I think by and large people target elderly women in these types of cases for the exact reason you just said. Right. They're they're vulnerable, they're less likely to be able to put up a massive fight.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But you talk about DNA and then you talk about kind of the. His M.O. this is a person who attacked women in their late 70s, 80s, and we said it, right. In 1967, Louisa was 75 years old. So she kind of fits into that pattern.

[Mike Gibson]

So for the authorities, they have to feel really good about what they have here.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, the DNA match alone. Right. Has them feeling really good. Headley was convicted and jailed for life. But at an appeal hearing, doctors told the court that the rapes occurred due to sexual frustration from Headley's marriage to what they described as his ambitious and demanding wife. So the sentence was reduced and. And Headley spent only two years in jail. All right, please make that make sense to me. You go from convicted and jailed for life to two years. Why? Because he was sexually frustrated. Right. How many of us aren't?

[Mike Gibson]

How does it make it okay?

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. How does that mitigate or make better in any way what he did or not? Not excuse it, but you know what I'm saying? I just don't get that.

[Mike Gibson]

And if. If your partner is ambitious and demanding, I mean, that's describing a lot of partners out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, sure. Let's face it. Does everybody get as much sex as they would like? I would say if people were being honest, the answer for many would be no. But in no way does that excuse or form the basis of it being less wrong no. To rape these elderly women.

[Mike Gibson]

You don't get a lesser sentence because according to your doctor, you're sexually frustrated.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, apparently you do. The guy just did.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

You said you don't, but he did not. You should not. Yeah, that's for sure. Forensic scientists determined that the DNA from the Dunn crime scene was 1 billion times more likely to belong to Headley than anyone else.

[Mike Gibson]

Those are pretty solid odds.

[Mike Ferguson]

They are. And, you know, we see that kind of number all over the place. One in so many trillion. Now we're seeing one in so many quadrillions or. I don't know. These are numbers I can't even really understand. But basically what you're saying in a lot of these cases now is there aren't as many people on the entire planet as the odds are of this being anyone else, if that makes sense now. One in a billion. Obviously, there are more than a billion people and were and have been for some time, but it's still a very, very strong piece of evidence.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I would say you'd have to feel really good about the fact that you got your killer with that DNA.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because there's three times less people in the United States.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And that's not even factoring in how many males. So. Yeah, it just doesn't. It doesn't seem likely. Right, that it's anybody else but him. Now, Headley's DNA had been in the system since 2012, when he was arrested but not charged over an unrelated matter. After identifying Headley, investigators knew they needed to work quickly because of his advanced age. I said it right. The guy was 92 years old.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, that's up there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, the average age of a male is. I don't know what it is, but it's probably not 92. I'm assuming it's less than that.

[Mike Gibson]

78, I think.

[Mike Ferguson]

Quite a bit less than that. Before they could make an arrest, they had to prove he was in Bristol at the time of the murder. In the 11 weeks between the DNA match and the arrest, the review team read all 1300 statements and police records to see if Headley was part of the original inquiry. He wasn't. Former Detective Sergeant Barry Fraling spent days at the Bristol City archives looking up electoral roll and rate payment records to prove Headley and his wife were living in Bristol in 1967. Records showed Headley was a railway worker and lived a mile and a half from Luis's home.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I'm sure they were smiling ear to ear on that one.

[Mike Ferguson]

But his name didn't come up in 1967 because he lived outside of the search area. So apparently the search area was not all that big if he only lived a mile and a half away.

[Mike Gibson]

So maybe they were looking at things within a mile.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe. After the murder, Headley left southwest England with his family and may have spent time in London before moving to Ipswich. In Suffolk, the review team also found former officer Bobby Day, who was involved in the original investigation, and Norman Taylor. The doctor called when Louisa's body was found. The vast majority of witnesses in this case, though, had passed away by 2024. And you're going to have that on a case that's over 50 years old. It gives you figure even people who were new to their jobs, who would be in their 20s, they would still be in their mid to late 70s at this point.

[Mike Gibson]

That's true. That's one of the problems with older cases, right?

[Mike Ferguson]

It is.

[Mike Gibson]

Unfortunately, time takes its toll.

[Mike Ferguson]

It does. On us all.

[Mike Gibson]

On us all. Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's why, you know, DNA has been such a game changer. The Suffolk police also provided the statements from the Ipswich rape victims. They described how Headley snuck into their room and threatened to kill them if they did not comply. I'm still upset that this guy got two years for being convicted of raping two women aged 79 and 84 after initially essentially receiving a life sentence. There wasn't a ton of details around it, but it's a head scratcher.

[Mike Gibson]

It's just really insulting.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I think for the victims and the victim's families, that's a really tough one. Ryland Headley was arrested on November 19, 2024. When he was told why he was being arrested, Headley said, I don't know what you're talking about. Very strange, very strange. The first part doesn't surprise me, right. I don't know how many people who, if they were confronted with this type of horrible crime right off the bat say, oh, yeah, you got me. Right. I don't think that's the norm. Most people say, I don't know what you're talking about. Wasn't me, wasn't me. Now, later on, they might ultimately cave, but I don't think, by and large, most of these people cave right from the get go. The part that got me was the very strange. Very strange.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like just plain denial to me.

[Mike Ferguson]

Why? Couldn't figure out what was very strange, that they were coming and asking him about it. They were accusing him of it. They were arresting him. After the arrest, four fingerprint experts concluded the palm print found at the crime scene matched Headley's palm print, further proof that he was inside Luis's home on the night of the murder. According to the guardian, Headley's neighbors in Ipswich didn't know about his past and considered him a friendly guy who doted on his family and even recently adopted a kitten.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, when you hear about somebody like this and how they used to be, and maybe they're not like that now, but do you think how you feel about them now changes, like, quickly, or is it something that takes over time as you think about it, more and more like he did what to who?

[Mike Ferguson]

I think for probably neighbors, that change happens very quickly because, you know, you. You don't really know these people. Yeah, you might think you do, but nobody really knows their neighbors all that well. Not like a family member would.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. You're not in the house all the time. You're not seeing fights and you're not seeing them at their worst. Most of the time you see your neighbors at their best unless they're Real a holes.

[Mike Gibson]

Well that's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which I've had a few.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you have.

[Mike Ferguson]

But also Gibbs. He could have been a friendly guy by this point. You think about him being in his 70s, his 80s and then in his 90s. I can't imagine that he was out doing any of this at that advanced age. But that doesn't change what he did right in the 60s and 70s when he was a younger man. You know folks, a well built wardrobe is about pieces that work together and hold up over time. That's what Quince does best. Premium materials, thoughtful design and everyday staples that feel easy to wear and easy to rely on even as the weather shifts. Quince has the everyday essentials I love with the quality that lasts. Organic cotton sweaters, Polos for every occasion, lighter jackets that keep you warm in the changing seasons, and the list just goes on. Quince works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, just quality clothing. Plus they only partner with factories that meet rigorous standards for craftsmanship and ethical production. And that's a big deal for me. I am hooked on their flow knit performance wear. I just got a long sleeved hoodie in the mail the other day and and it's all I want to wear. Everything we've ordered from Quints has been top notch and the prices are amazing. Refresh your wardrobe with quint. Go to quint.com tcat for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com tcatt free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com tcat Ryan Headley's murder trial started on June 16, 2025. In opening statements, prosecutor Anna Vickers KC told the jury, as quoted by the Guardian, what we are talking about is the murder of an elderly and vulnerable lady in her own home. She was in no state to defend herself. Whether it happened 58 years ago or 58 days ago, the murder of any person is a matter of concern to the rest of us. The fact that time has passed doesn't make the killing of any one of us less significant. And I would agree, wholeheartedly, absolutely, perfectly said. With that statement, the jury heard how advances in DNA technology led to Headley's arrest. They also heard a description of Louisa's injuries. She was only 5 3.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, that's tiny.

[Mike Ferguson]

Described as a petite woman, there is no way she would have been able to defend herself against an attacker. Louisa had abrasions on her face and bruises to the back of her head and her right thigh. A pathologist concluded a hand was forcibly held over her mouth and a bruise across the back of her neck was caused by a scarf found under her body that was violently tightened. A vaginal swab tested positive for semen and we talked about it earlier. Right, but. So even though semen was found, DNA testing, as we know, did not exist in 1967. But because Luisa's skirt was preserved for decades, it was able to be tested. A forensic scientist found what was described as a large quantity of semen on the fabric. And I don't know what is meant by large, I mean, that's subjective, but.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, clearly it was noticeably large and we mentioned it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right, but the match ratio meant it was a billion times more likely to be Headley's DNA than anyone else. The jury also heard that after the murder, Headley and his family moved to Ipswich and that in 1977 he raped two elderly women. He broke into their homes and threatened to strangle or smother them if they did not follow his orders prior to trial. The Crown Prosecution Service argued that Headley's two previous rape convictions formed an important part of the case and they were allowed to present that evidence to, to the jury. And that's an important part. Right. We talk about a lot of cases and there are times when a defendant's other acts, other convictions are not allowed to be shared with the jury.

[Mike Gibson]

But in this case I'm glad they did because it's kind of setting the stage.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right, well, you're showing the character of someone, you're showing that this person has a propensity for sexual assaults, violence of elderly women. Of elderly women. That's a good point because Louisa was an elderly woman. The accounts of the attacks were read in court. Headley threatened to strangle the 84 year old victim. He told the 79 year old victim he, he had a gun and warned her that he would smother her with the pillow if she didn't follow his instructions. According to the Guardian, Headley admitted to both rapes and asked for a further 10 offenses of burglaries of homes where his prints were found between 1973 to 1978 to be taken into consideration.

[Mike Gibson]

So you think on the 10 other robberies, does he say that to like set the stage? Like, hey, I didn't rape anybody during those?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know what is meant by he wants those to be taken into consideration, but I do think you're probably on the right track. But here's the thing, right? All but one witness had died by the time of his trial. Meaning the prosecution's case relied primarily on written accounts from the 1960s and 70s. Under current legislation, witness statements must be verified by a statement of truth signed by the witness. Because the witnesses weren't available to give evidence in court, their statements had to be treated as hearsay.

[Mike Gibson]

So lesser value.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And you know, a lot of times hearsay is not allowed here in the US the prosecution read statements from Luisa's neighbors who heard screams and moans on the night of her death. However, they didn't think the noises were coming from Luis's home and they went back to sleep.

[Mike Gibson]

Which is kind of bothersome, right? You wake up, you hear these types of noises and you're like, eh, not next door. I'm just going to go ahead and go back to bed.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, we talk about it quite a bit. I mean, this is, you know, much different than the case in New York, right. The famous case that we did where a bunch of people witnessed somebody being attacked and they didn't do anything. This happens, I think, more often where someone, or in this case, a couple hears something in the middle of the night, but they're not sure what it is. Okay, are you going to get up? Are you going to investigate it? Are you going to call the police? I think a lot of times people don't because they don't want to be wrong and they don't want to be seen as the person who kind of cries wolf. Right. Calls the police when nothing is really wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that is a good point.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, in hindsight, it's pretty easy. I'm sure they would have said, hey, I wish we would have called or we would have done something. Alice Clark described Louisa as her best friend in her statement. She last saw Louisa on June 27. When Louisa visited her around 7:30pm she was in good spirits. Louisa's neighbor, Violent Fortune, went to bed at 11:45pm she told the police, I was awakened suddenly by what sounded like a scream. It wasn't a long piercing scream, but a crying out. It sounded muffled and I thought it came from the street outside. Violet did look outside, but she didn't see anyone. And so she went back to bed. Her statement continued, I had been in bed for about two minutes when again I heard someone cry out. I could distinguish it was the voice of a woman. The cry lasted for two or three seconds and I was aware at the same time of another voice. I cannot say if that one was a man or woman, but she didn't think either that the noise came from Louisa's home. Neighbor Harold Hodson said, I hear a loud scream. It was a frightening scream. It was an adult woman. It sounded as if someone was being attacked. After the scream, there was a sound of moans or as if the sound was being muffled. He thought it was a man he knew beating his wife. The noise stopped and he went back to sleep.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, it's just Fred or Edgar just beating his wife. I'll go back to bed now.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's so strange. It is strange right now. Maybe this was during a time when people didn't intervene or pry into other people's business. I don't know. I know today if you thought someone was beating their wife, I would hope that person would call the police.

[Mike Gibson]

I would hope so, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Neighbors were worried the next morning when they didn't see Louisa and saw that a window was open. And this was when neighbor Violent Allen climbed in and found Louisa's body in the front room. And she told the police that Louisa was cold as ice. In closing statements, Headley's lawyer, Jeremy Benson, told the jury, any loss of life is tragic. It would be perfectly natural and understandable for you to feel that after 58 years, someone should be found responsible for the death of Louisa Dunn. But that would be revenge and not justice. Your task is to consider the evidence dispassionately. You must put aside any sympathy or prejudice and only convict Ryland Headley if on the evidence the prosecution has presented, has made you sure of his guilt.

[Mike Gibson]

Dispassionately?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, I think that's kind of a big part of it. Now, is it possible for everyone that I don't know. He also noted that Headley had no recollection of visiting Luisa's home or having intercourse with her and did not rape or kill her.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, he is 92, so maybe he just doesn't have the memory that he used to. That could be one thing. Or he's just lying.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, how many people admit to remembering that they committed a heinous sexual assault and murder? But to your point, he could have some memory issues as well. On June 30, 2025, Rylan Headley was convicted of rape and murder. The murder verdict was a majority, 10 to 2. The rape verdict was unanimous.

[Mike Gibson]

That DNA kind of sealed that deal.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Now, that is interesting to me, because logically, you would think if he was the person who raped her, he was the person who killed her as well.

[Mike Gibson]

But I guess if you don't feel confident that no one came in after he raped her and killed her.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but what are the odds of that?

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, it's like so minimal, but now.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe there was an argument that there was more than one person there. He raped her, another person killed her. Yeah, I didn't see that in the research, but that could be a possibility. Or at the very least, something that the defense offered up. But the following day, he was sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 20 years. Now, I'm not sure it matters what you really make. The minimum. The guy's 92 years old, Gibbs.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

He's not living to be 112.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't think at that point, you're thinking he's going to die in prison.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. Now, if it was like his other conviction and they turned around and gave him two years, he might make it two years and get out. I also wonder what it's like to be 92 years old heading to prison.

[Mike Gibson]

What kind of attitude you go in there with. Can't really act like a tough.

[Mike Ferguson]

I was going to say, what attitude can you have? You can't back anything up at 92 years old.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, probably have a bad hip, knee, shoulder. Well, everything.

[Mike Ferguson]

I have that at 52.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I can only imagine what it would be like at 92. The other thing that is. I don't know if ironic is the right word, but he preyed on elderly women pretty hard. Not to think that there might be some guys in prison who might want to prey on him. Being elderly, probably. If they're. If they get a chance. If he's not segregated or something like that.

[Mike Gibson]

An easy target.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much he could fight back. If you're tired of the run of the mill banking experience, you got to check out Chime. Chime is changing the way people bank. It's smarter banking built for you. You know, the old school banks, they charge you overdraft fees, monthly fees. Not Chime. Chime isn't just another banking app. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, giving you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime, and getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Chime makes your everyday spending work harder by delivering real rewards and financial progress. It's rated five stars by us today for customer service. And you get real humans 24. 7. I so wish chime would have been around when I was younger. Man this is the type of banking that I really could have benefited from. And the Chime card is a great way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day. No annual fees, no interest, no strings attached. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. You head to chime.comtcat that is chime.com.

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[Mike Ferguson]

During the hearing, the defense noted that Headley was going to turn 93 in September and asked the judge to take into account his behavior since he was released from prison in 1980. And I'll be honest with you, I have a real problem with that. First of all, this is a guy who got to live the majority of his life a free man.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure he did.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now he spent a couple of years in prison, but that was for something completely different. If he had been caught in 1967, he would have spent however long in prison. But he didn't. So if I'm the judge, I would have a hard time really taking that into account. I get it, you're about ready to turn 93. But you should have been in prison for many, many years already. So I don't really feel that bad.

[Mike Gibson]

I wouldn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

And your behavior over the last 40 some years to me doesn't really have a bearing on it either. You committed a heinous crime. You deserve to spend your last days in prison. You actually deserve to spend a lot longer than he will. The judge said during sentencing that Headley showed a complete disregard for human life and dignity. Louisa was a vulnerable elderly woman who lived alone. Although he was sentenced to a minimum 20 year term, the judge told Headley that given his age, you will never be released. You will die in prison. And I think if you're making bets, that's kind of a no brainer.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's pretty solid.

[Mike Ferguson]

The judge also noted that the rape and murder had an intergenerational impact, which was a powerful aggravating factor and we mentioned it. Right. But this was one of the oldest cold cases to ever be solved in the UK and Headley is believed to be the oldest person in the UK convicted of murder. I don't know how many people get convicted of murder at 92, I would.

[Mike Gibson]

Think it'd be pretty slim.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Louisa's granddaughter, Mary Dainton released a statement after the conviction which was published by the Avon and Somerset Police. It read, the death of my grandmother, Louisa Dunn has had a far reaching impact throughout my family. I was just 20 years old when my grandmother died and now I'm almost the same age as she was when she was killed. I only have one memory of meeting my grandmother due to family circumstances. I was 14 at the time and visited her in the hospital. My mother told me that Louise's house in Britannia Road was a place of social and political activity. My grandfather, Edwin Parker, was a member of the Early Labor Party and he loved my grandmother dearly. Sadly, he died in 1945 and the social and political elements of my grandmother's life went with him. Louisa's brutal death had a big impact on my mother and her wider family. I don't think my mother ever recovered from it. The anxiety clouded the rest of her life. When people found out about the murder, including friends, they withdrew. There's a stigma attached to rape and murder in my experience, so I have rarely talked to anyone about this until now. Since Ryland Headley was charged with. I've struggled emotionally in many ways I did not anticipate and it falls to me to speak for people who are no longer here. It saddens me deeply that all the people who knew and loved Louisa are not here to see that justice is being done. And it's an emotional statement, but it's also so very true. She talks about how many different people were affected by what happened to her grandmother. Not just her, not just her mom, but, you know, people in the family, people who knew Louisa and they had.

[Mike Gibson]

To carry this for 50 plus years.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Mary Dainton also spoke to the Guardian after the trial in 1967. She was a 20 year old art student, but she didn't know Louisa well. Right. We mentioned it early on. There was a family rift. She met her grandmother just once. She told the guardian, I remember my grandmother being very keen to be friendly with me and she held my hand Very, very tightly. Mary learned about her grandmother's death from an obituary in the Bristol Evening Post. Her mother didn't want to talk about the crime, according to Mary. She told me, basically, dad and I will handle this. You go away, Live your life. Mary talked about how her mother was affected, saying, my mother had a breakdown. I think she suffered from depression. Later, she found it very hard to make friends. We weren't a very close family in the first place, but what there was in the family fell to pieces. And I think that's a scenario that can occur in a lot of families where a family member is murdered. It changes the family dynamics. We've seen it, Gibbs, with parents of a murdered child, they ultimately divorce. It's too painful to live with each other, to look at someone who resembles your child. We've heard that.

[Mike Gibson]

And in some cases there's resentment.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you should have done this or you should have done that. If we would have only done this. Mary eventually accepted that the murder would never be solved. She recalled the moment police told her they found the suspect. She said, I said something to the effect of, my goodness, how old is he? They said, 92. I asked the police, was he married? Did he have children? All they could say was, he's had a life. So I presume that meant he was and he did have children. All I could think was, his poor family, too. I don't think anybody could do that unless they had a very distorted view of what is right and what is wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a good point. You know, what about his family members? They got to say, what the hell? Dad, Grandpa.

[Mike Ferguson]

Everything they thought they knew about this guy, in some respects, is kind of a lie right now. He might have been a good guy later on in his life. Doesn't change the fact that he was a rapist and murderer.

[Mike Gibson]

Kind of cancels that out.

[Mike Ferguson]

And how would you feel if you found out that your dad, your grandpa, your great grandpa, was a rapist and murderer?

[Mike Gibson]

I would think it would change how you felt about it, about him.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe everything you thought you knew, your whole world, maybe, would be turned upside down. Although the murder of Louisa Dunn is now solved, many suspect that Ryland Headley committed other crimes that have not yet been linked to him. Women's groups in the UK have called for the investigation into Headley to continue. The group, Women Against Rape, issued a statement that said, in part, we're glad the appalling crimes against Louisa Dunn are finally recognized. But how many other women has this man raped and murdered? Solving cold cases doesn't atone for continuing refusal by authorities to treat violence against women and girls as a serious crime.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, it is a serious crime.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well. And I can't help but go back to, you know, what he was accused of and ultimately convicted for in the 1970s, and what was his ultimate punishment? Two years.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's so sad for raping two women. I mean, number one, what are you saying to him? If you get out and do it again, maybe your punishment won't be that bad. It wasn't this time.

[Mike Gibson]

But.

[Mike Ferguson]

But also, what are you saying to women? We don't value you. We don't value your. Your rights, your safety. It's just a. It's a bad thing all the way around how. How women have been treated in a lot of aspects. But I'm talking specifically about this one. Right, right. Crimes of sexual assault and that nature and the punishment that people ultimately received.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it's almost laughable to think, why would women even come forward? It's hard enough to confront your victim of something like that, but to know that if you do, if they use one of these excuses, they'll probably get out in a year or two and then you're gonna have to deal with that.

[Mike Ferguson]

The fact that this person's out. The fear. Yeah, all of that retaliation. In July 2025, the Guardian reported that the National Crime Agency was working with the Avon and Somerset police to identify whether Headley committed other offenses. A spokesman said at the time the Joint Norfolk and Suffolk Major Investigation Team, or mit, will carry out extensive inquiries into Ryland Headley's activities since he moved to Ipswich in the early 1970s. He will not be a consideration in several unsolved case reviews across Suffolk. And as of January 2026, Ryland Headley has not been linked to any additional crimes. Now, does that mean he didn't commit any? No, obviously it doesn't. If he was committing crimes in the 60s and 70s, which we know he was, but I meant more crimes. Did they collect something that could be used now, mainly DNA? Well, there's no guarantee they did because, let's face it, they didn't know what DNA was in the 60s and 70s.

[Mike Gibson]

Very true.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if they were collecting things and putting them in paper bags and how did they store them? Maybe things were lost. That happens quite a bit in cases we talked about. Or even if they did collect something, there's no guarantee that a viable sample could be derived so many years later. But the one thing I will say is it's hard for me to believe this Guy didn't commit additional crimes. Very tough to think he sexually assaulted and murdered Louisa. And then we know he raped two other elderly women in the 70s. You're telling me all those other years he did nothing? That's tough. It's tough to believe.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, at least her family gets some answers.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, those that are left, right? I mean, a lot of them have died, but yeah, her surviving family members get answers, and that's always a good thing. I think what people, I guess I'll say have trouble with is the fact that it took almost 60 years. But better late than never. You'd have to say that.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, at least there's some form of closure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes. Now, in a perfect world, you would have want this. You would have wanted this guy caught sooner, you know, committed to jail time. Much sooner than 92 years old, because he's not going to do that much time. He's. He doesn't have long to live.

[Mike Gibson]

And I know it's impactful to his existing family.

[Mike Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Gibson]

But you know what? When you do something like that, it could catch up to you. Should catch up to you. And you're going to have to deal with the consequences.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but you can still feel sorry for them, right? They didn't do anything wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I feel sorry for them, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But that's it for our episode on Louisa Dunn. We got a voicemail, Gibbs. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[David Taylor]

Hey, Mike and Gibby. I'd like to give you guys a call. Oh, this is David Taylor from El Paso, Texas. Hey, you know, I'm listening to August, sometime in August 2020, and you're making, you know, you're talking about the unrest in the United States and, and Facebook and social media and all the idiot dumbasses on social media. And here we are today, the 29th of January, 2025, and we're still in the same spot we were five years ago. I know, running a Facebook page. And like you said, your group page and your personal page, you can't tell just because of the name. And that probably was the furthest thing from your mind when you started. So I'm sorry you had to put up with that B.S. but anyhow, keep, Keep it up and keep your head on a swivel, you know, especially these days. But take care. Have a great night. Talk to you later. Thanks.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I appreciate the voicemail. I mean, I. I think when it comes to social media, right, you got to take the good with the bad. You have to, you know, we have a lot of amazing fans who interact with us on social media, different platforms, but not everybody is going to like us. And so you're going to get people who write in nasty things. That's just part of it.

[Mike Gibson]

We have got thicker skin over the years.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, you develop thicker skin. No doubt about it. You have to, or it would drive you up the wall. Yeah, but that is it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sa.