Transcript

Mike Ferguson (0:00)

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Mike Ferguson (1:43)

of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms at Mintmobile do. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 488 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true cr, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

Mike Gibson (2:34)

Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself?

Mike Ferguson (2:36)

Excellent. Having a great week.

Mike Gibson (2:38)

That's good.

Mike Ferguson (2:39)

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Sandra.

Mike Gibson (2:42)

Hey, what's going on? Sandra.

Mike Ferguson (2:43)

Casey.

Mike Gibson (2:44)

Summary

True Crime All The Time – Episode 488: Patricia Rorrer

Release Date: April 13, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson

Episode Overview

In this week’s episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson (Gibby) examine the headline-grabbing case of Patricia Rorrer, who was convicted of the 1994 kidnapping and murder of her ex-boyfriend’s wife, Joanne Katrinak, and Joanne’s infant son, Alex. The hosts dissect the evidence, trial, and subsequent appeals, highlighting the intricacies and controversies that continue to divide those who follow the case.

Major Topics & Discussion Points

1. Background: Victims and Disappearance

Victims: Joanne Marie Katrinak (born 1968, Bronx, NY) and her 3-month-old son, Alex.
Pre-Disappearance Life: Joanne ended a short-lived first marriage, met Andrew Katrinak in Pennsylvania, married him in 1993, and had Alex in August 1994. She was described as happy in her new life ([06:03]-[07:03]).
Disappearance: December 15, 1994, Joanne and Alex vanished after Joanne planned to pick up her mother-in-law for shopping. Initial clues included a pried basement door, a cut phone line, and Joanne’s car (with car seat) abandoned near home ([07:29]-[08:53]).

2. The Investigation

Initial Theories: Police did not immediately suspect abduction, considering possible voluntary departure ([09:19]).
Husband/Ex-Husband Cleared: Both Andrew and Joanne’s ex were considered and cleared ([09:46]).
Family’s Perspective: Andrew speculated on the possibility of an abductor being "infatuated" with Joanne ([09:55]).

3. Discovery of the Bodies

Found: April 9, 1995, in rural Pennsylvania. Joanne had been bludgeoned and shot; Alex likely died from exposure or suffocation ([13:07]-[14:05]).
Andrew's Whereabouts: He was searching out-of-state on advice from a psychic when the bodies were discovered, which raised suspicions among some observers ([13:15]).

4. Connecting Patricia Rorrer

Rorrer’s Background: Former girlfriend of Andrew; their relationship ended in 1989, but Rorrer called Andrew’s home three days before Joanne went missing ([16:03]-[16:23]).
Suspicions Mount: Investigators noted Patricia’s phone listing was still connected to Andrew’s home, and she made several calls around the time of the disappearance ([16:43]).
Possible Motive: Prosecution suggested anger over being told not to call Andrew was the motive ([31:05]).

5. Key Evidence

Hair and DNA: Eight blonde hairs – six in Joanne’s car, two at or near the crime scene – matched Patricia in mitochondrial DNA tests. Blood on some originated from Joanne or Alex ([20:51]-[21:12]).
Firearm Evidence: Patricia was linked to ownership of a .22 caliber handgun, the same caliber as the murder weapon ([25:17], [26:17]).
Alibi Issues: Patricia’s statements and behavior (asking acquaintances to confirm false alibis) signaled possible concealment ([43:44], [44:05]).

6. Incriminating Statements and Witness Testimony

Notable Statements:
- "Baby, why did I do this, Nicole? If I had known I would get caught, I would never have brought you into this world." – Patricia, to her daughter as police arrested her ([22:38]).
- "I'm sorry for doing this to you." – also to her daughter during arrest ([41:23]).
- "I'm not worried about my clothes. I'm never going to see my daughter again." and "I'm going to kill myself. I can't live like this." ([42:00]).
Prosecution’s Narrative: They highlighted Patricia seeking alibi help, possessing a gun, knowing the area, and lying about key facts ([40:26], [40:44]).
Defense’s Challenges: Argued much evidence was circumstantial, questioned DNA reliability, and pointed to possible bias or mistakes among witnesses ([29:16], [31:28], [51:32]).

7. DNA Limitations & Controversies

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA): Only an exclusionary tool in the 90s; couldn’t conclusively match hair to Patricia ([28:56]-[29:16]).
Statistical Weight: One hair had a 1 in 37,000 chance it belonged to someone else ([34:39]), which is less definitive than modern nuclear DNA testing.

8. Trial & Conviction

Trial: Circumstantial case presented. Jury had to weigh many small incriminating details rather than one "smoking gun" ([33:06], [60:26]).
Guilty Verdict: Patricia found guilty in March 1998 and sentenced to two life terms ([53:48]).
Appeals: Multiple appeals based on DNA evidence have been denied; defense and supporters maintain her innocence and campaign for new testing ([53:48]-[56:56]).

9. Ongoing Debate & Unanswered Questions

Support for Innocence: Patricia and her advocates highlight flawed evidence, lack of motive, and alternate theories (flowers in shoes, mystery witnesses, polygraph results, planned separation, etc.) ([56:43]-[57:09]).
Legal Hurdles: Modern retesting blocked by courts; hosts ponder why, if the technology now exists to be conclusive, authorities won’t permit new DNA analysis ([58:32]-[61:02]).
Hosts’ Reflections: Acknowledge circumstantial cases can be challenging; jury had to weigh many small pieces rather than a clear, objective proof ([60:26], [63:09]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Weight of Circumstantial Evidence

Mike Ferguson [33:06]:
“When it's that circumstantial, then it's just like you're having to put bricks on top of bricks, hoping that the structure is strong enough to convince the jury.”

On the Defendant's Behavior

Mike Gibson [44:05]: “If you didn't have anything to do with this, why are you worried about it? Why would you need to have this airtight alibi?”

Key Incriminating Statement

Sergeant Pearson’s account via Mike Ferguson [22:38]: "Baby, why did I do this, Nicole? If I had known I would get caught, I would never have brought you into this world."

On the DNA and Science

Mike Ferguson [28:56]:
"And it's come a long ways. You know, back in the day, they used to say it looks microscopically similar. Well, we now know that a lot of that was kind of junk science."

On the Problems with Motive

Mike Ferguson [31:27]:
"Now, could somebody be so upset about being told not to call again and being hung up on that they drive 500 miles and kill a woman and her infant son? Seems very extreme, but it's possible."

On What Still Haunts the Case

Mike Ferguson [58:32]:
"Are you telling me that we can't prove this now in 2026?"

Key Timestamps

04:48 – Introduction of Patricia Rorrer and background to her connection with Andrew
07:29 – Details of Joanne and Alex’s disappearance
13:07 – Discovery of Joanne and Alex’s bodies
16:03 – Focus turns to Patricia, her history with Andrew, and her calls to him
20:51 – Discussion of the hair/DNA evidence
22:38–22:59 – Patricia’s incriminating statements at arrest
29:16 – Discussion of limitations of mitochondrial DNA evidence
31:05 – Examination of alleged motive for the crime
34:39 – Explanation: DNA evidence and 1-in-37,000 chance
40:26 – Contradictions in Patricia's knowledge of the area, gun ownership, and timelines
53:48 – Verdict, sentence, and the beginning of the appeals
56:43–57:09 – Ongoing debate, efforts for new evidence, and supporters’ arguments
58:32–61:02 – Hosts speculate why no further DNA testing has been done in the modern era

Conclusion

The episode offers a nuanced, thorough look at the Patricia Rorrer case, highlighting the power—and limitations—of circumstantial evidence. Ferguson and Gibson keep their tone conversational, occasionally humorous, yet always respectful of the subject matter, asking hard questions about the justice system and the friction between scientific certainty and courtroom proof.

Memorable Closing Thoughts:

“There was no slam dunk.” – Mike Gibson [63:09]
“Everything points to her… But there isn’t that one thing that conclusively says 100% yes, she did it.” – Mike Ferguson [63:09]

For those wanting to understand a controversial and compelling true crime story—this episode is essential listening.