Mike Ferguson (1:40)

Well, whenever you come up with it, we'll put it on your nameplate.

Mike Gibson (1:42)

Until then, I'll remain Gibby, though.

Mike Ferguson (1:44)

Okay. All right, you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

Mike Gibson (1:47)

I am.

Mike Ferguson (1:48)

We're talking about Pearl Bruns. On August 11, 1991, Pearl Bruns disappeared after an intense argument with her husband, who did not report her missing for several days. And that's always kind of a sticky situation.

Mike Gibson (2:05)

It's not good. No.

Mike Ferguson (2:06)

It doesn't make you look good. Right. And from the beginning, rightfully so, her husband was considered by police as the prime suspect.

Mike Gibson (2:16)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (2:16)

But it. It took some time, right, to figure out who actually murdered her. Pearl Ann Drown was born on December 14, 1943, in Bidford Maine. She grew up in Saco and moved often as an adult. You ever been to Maine?

Mike Gibson (2:33)

I have not been to Maine.

Mike Ferguson (2:36)

I'm not either. I have wanted to plan a trip up through the Northeast.

Mike Gibson (2:40)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (2:41)

For a long time, but we just

Mike Gibson (2:43)

haven't done it so there. When the leafs are changing colors, I

Mike Ferguson (2:46)

don't care about no leaves. I want to get a lobster roll, some clam chow. Know, just try.

Mike Gibson (2:51)

Okay.

Mike Ferguson (2:52)

I'm more about the food, you know.

Mike Gibson (2:53)

All right, well, you should plan that trip one of these days.

Mike Ferguson (2:56)

Yeah, we will. Pearl had three adult children, two daughters and a son from her previous marriages. In 1986, she married Bill Bruns and moved to South Portland, Maine. According to the Journal Tribune, it was Pearl's sixth marriage and Bill's fourth.

Mike Gibson (3:14)

Wow. I mean, that's a lot of marriages.

Mike Ferguson (3:18)

I mean, that's two people who were looking for love multiple times.

Mike Gibson (3:23)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (3:24)

And obviously, you know, the situations that they were in didn't work out for one reason or another.

Mike Gibson (3:30)

I mean, that's.

Mike Ferguson (3:32)

But they didn't give up. You'd have to say that six times.

Mike Gibson (3:35)

My aunt. My one aunt was married five times, and I was like, how do you do that? How do you do that?

Mike Ferguson (3:41)

Well, you just stand up in front of a preacher or you go down to the clerk. Oh, you mean, like, how do you do it emotionally?

Mike Gibson (3:49)

Or that's just a. I don't know. It seems like a lot.

Mike Ferguson (3:52)

Yeah. I tell my wife all the time, well, first of all, I tell her, my next wife's not going to treat me like that.

Mike Gibson (3:58)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (4:00)

That doesn't go over well.

Mike Gibson (4:01)

Say my next wife won't be like my current wife.

Mike Ferguson (4:04)

But. No, I've told her I. I don't think I would get married again.

Mike Gibson (4:07)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (4:07)

I really don't. I love being married. But. And that could change, you know, if you met someone and if, you know, God forbid, something happened to my wife.

Mike Gibson (4:19)

I'm glad you went that direction, because I was like, wait a minute, where's he going? This.

Mike Ferguson (4:23)

No, I just. I love being married, but I don't know if I would do it again. I really don't.

Mike Gibson (4:30)

Because nobody can ever compare to your wife is what you're trying to say.

Mike Ferguson (4:34)

Yeah, let's go that route.

Mike Gibson (4:35)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (4:36)

Because she's listening. Yeah. She'll hear me editing this.

Mike Gibson (4:39)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (4:40)

So Bill owned Belko Trucking, which transported fish products.

Mike Gibson (4:47)

Okay. Well, they are in Maine.

Mike Ferguson (4:49)

Yeah, they are in Maine. Might be a little smelly. The two met at their local vfw, where Pearl enjoyed spending her Free time. At first, they seemed happy and said they were lucky in love. Now, did they say that with all their previous marriages as well? Probably.

Mike Gibson (5:09)

I'm assuming there's a good odds that they said at least one or two of those marriages.

Mike Ferguson (5:14)

Yeah. I mean, you know, I've said it before. Nobody goes into a marriage thinking, oh, no, this ain't gonna work, because why would you get married?

Mike Gibson (5:22)

That's true.

Mike Ferguson (5:23)

Everybody's happy. And then there's a honeymoon period. Sometimes that lasts for a very long time. Sometimes it doesn't. You know, if you're a celebrity, it could be like, 70 days. That's all those celebrity marriages last. Sometimes there's potential.

Mike Gibson (5:38)

Maybe it only lasts one night through honeymoon night. That's it, you know, it's over.

Mike Ferguson (5:43)

Especially if you don't know each other's names and you met in Vegas. Something like that. For many years, Pearl worked as a certified nurse's assistant and activities director at the Elms residence home. Most recently, before her disappearance, she worked as a fish packer at Stinson Seafood in South Portland.

Mike Gibson (6:03)

All right, well, someone's got to pack that fish.

Mike Ferguson (6:05)

I mean, I get it, right? You just said there in Maine.

Mike Gibson (6:09)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (6:10)

Is there a lot of jobs that kind of revolve around the. The fishing industry? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. A lot of people make their livelihood in. In that way. But, you know, I talked about this honeymoon period. I don't think it was all that long that their marriage started to deteriorate. According to Pearl's friend Deanna Ser, they were constantly fighting. Pearl started drinking more and became depressed. She also told Deanna, per the Southern Maine Community College Beacon, there's one thing I want you to know. If anything should ever happen to me, tell them Bill did it.

Mike Gibson (6:51)

It's always alarming.

Mike Ferguson (6:52)

It is. And it's not the first case that we have talked about this where someone has said, hey, if anything ever happens to me, my wife, my husband, my significant other, most likely did it.

Mike Gibson (7:08)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (7:09)

And my thought is always the same, if you think that way, what are you still doing in this relationship?

Mike Gibson (7:15)

And it's not like she's in this relationship for a long time already.

Mike Ferguson (7:19)

Yeah. Again, I don't know how long they were actually married before it started to go downhill, but they were no stranger, either one of them, to getting divorced. So, I mean, if you seriously thought your partner was potentially going to hurt or kill you, that seems like a pretty good reason to get out of a relationship.

Mike Gibson (7:44)

Yeah. I'd say go ahead and exit now instead of waiting till that moment Comes around.

Mike Ferguson (7:49)

Pearl's daughter Elaine was aware that the couple fought often. When he was angry, Bill would sometimes throw things or he would rip the. The phone out of the wall. But as far as she knew, it didn't go beyond that. And so I'm taking that to mean, as far as Pearl's daughter knew, it never got physical.

Mike Gibson (8:13)

Yeah, right.

Mike Ferguson (8:13)

He got upset. He threw tantrums. He threw things around the house, and. But she never saw him strike her or be physical with her. But as we've said. Right. If you're not living there day in and day out, and sometimes even if you are, do you know everything that happens behind closed doors?

Mike Gibson (8:38)

But who would want to live in that environment, though?

Mike Ferguson (8:41)

Oh, throwing things, ripping phones out, you

Mike Gibson (8:44)

know, I mean, come on, you know, how old are you? You got to rip the phone out of the wall because you're upset because somebody called or I called somebody or what? You know, ripping the phone out of the wall.

Mike Ferguson (8:54)

Yeah. I'm assuming that happens a lot less these days. Maybe they just take your. Your phone and stomp on it. Your cell phone. Because a lot of people are getting rid of their landlines. We haven't had a landline here in many, many years.

Mike Gibson (9:09)

Same year I haven't had a landline since. I can't even tell you the last time I had a landline.

Mike Ferguson (9:13)

Family friend Judy Dickinson spoke to Pearl in June 1991. She recalled to the Bidford Journal Tribune, she wasn't happy. She told me that she had been drinking a lot. When I asked her why, she said she didn't know. I said, a lot of times, it's because people are unhappy. And she said, how'd you get so smart? So a couple, you know, maybe tongue in cheek, but also maybe she is saying it without saying it. You're hitting the nail on the head. Right. I'm not happy. That's why I'm drinking. Dickinson said Pearl didn't talk much about Bill and had expressed interest in improving her life. And I'm taking that to mean life without Bill would be an improvement.

Mike Gibson (9:57)

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like Bill. Life with Bill's dragging her down. Right.

Mike Ferguson (10:03)

I think that's what she was trying to relate to other people. On August 11, 1991, Bill and Pearl got into a heated argument about money. Bill claimed that he grabbed his keys and left the house for a couple of hours. When he returned, Pearl was gone. He went to bed, assuming Pearl was at the VFW or perhaps somewhere else in town. And so let's break down that scenario.

Mike Gibson (10:31)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (10:32)

People get into arguments. Right. Couples get into arguments. It happens. Now, this one was about money, which is probably one of the main things that most couples fight about.

Mike Gibson (10:44)

I would say it's got to be, if not the number one thing, and it's got to be right on the heels of the number one thing.

Mike Ferguson (10:49)

And I would think for you, as cheap as you are, it probably is number one.

Mike Gibson (10:53)

I argue with myself every day. Mike, what are you doing?

Mike Ferguson (10:57)

Don't buy it. Don't buy that dollar cup of coffee at McDonald's. We cannot afford that.

Mike Gibson (11:03)

You can get it cheaper. You know, you can look around, drive around a little bit longer, but then

Mike Ferguson (11:07)

you have this scenario, right, where one person leaves the house, in this case, Bill, after the argument, he comes home, and Pearl's not there. Okay, what does he think? Well, she left too. Yeah, she went. I went to go cool off. She left to go cool off. She's probably at the vfw, if not somewhere else in town.

Mike Gibson (11:29)

Sure.

Mike Ferguson (11:30)

So maybe because of that, Pearl wasn't reported missing until August 13th. But even then, she wasn't reported by Bill. She was reported by her daughter, Elaine. And Bill hadn't even said anything to Elaine.

Mike Gibson (11:46)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (11:47)

It was really just Elaine kind of knowing in her heart that something was wrong.

Mike Gibson (11:53)

I mean, I get it. If you have a spout with your wife and, you know, you come home, she's not home, but you think, well, she's just down in the vfw, probably drinking. She'll get home eventually. I'm gonna go ahead and go to bed. But when you wake up and she's not there, normally, that's your should be like, hey, I need to figure out what happened to her.

Mike Ferguson (12:13)

Well, and. And especially if more than one day goes by.

Mike Gibson (12:16)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (12:17)

Because that would be out of character for most people. And it was for per Pearl as well. She had a pretty steady routine.

Mike Gibson (12:25)

Right. Right.

Mike Ferguson (12:25)

She liked to get her daily coffee. She liked to get her lottery ticket from the local Quick Mart, and she liked to drink at the vfw. So I think she was a regular there. She also talked to her daughter Elaine, several times a day, But Elaine hadn't heard from her.

Mike Gibson (12:42)

And to me, these are all red flags.

Mike Ferguson (12:45)

Yeah. In both unsolved and TCAT cases. We talk a lot about people's patterns. Right. When they go missing. I think patterns really matter a lot, because, let's face it, most of us are, you know, creatures of habit. We like our routines.

Mike Gibson (13:05)

We are.

Mike Ferguson (13:05)

I do the same thing every day. I get up, I have to make my coffee. Start to drink my coffee before I do anything else.

Mike Gibson (13:12)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (13:13)

I don't want to take on any tasks. I don't want to talk to anybody on the phone.

Mike Gibson (13:18)

Yeah, that. That is 100% true.

Mike Ferguson (13:21)

Yeah. Even when we go to, like, CrimeCon and stuff. I need to get my coffee.

Mike Gibson (13:26)

You need to be left alone because

Mike Ferguson (13:28)

I. I'm not fun. I'm not a good, nice person to be around until I get a little bit of pickme up a little caffeine. Yeah.

Mike Gibson (13:36)

And then, you know, at that point, you're just, you know, all type of fun to be around. Oh.

Mike Ferguson (13:41)

Even then, I'm just so. So.

Mike Gibson (13:43)

But yeah.

Mike Ferguson (13:44)

Elaine noticed something unusual when she went to the house to check on her mom. She told the Journal Tribune. My mom used to buy a newspaper every morning. This was Tuesday, and the last paper in the house was from Sunday.

Mike Gibson (13:58)

Oh, okay. That's a tell, tell, tell, tell, tell. That's a TT sign.

Mike Ferguson (14:04)

Yeah, we. We all know what you mean. So, you know, elite. Elaine called the police, and Detective Linda Barker came to the house to talk to her. He. Detective Barker walked through the house and found all of Pearl's belongings, including her beloved Cadillac, still there. And again, something that always crops up in these cases. People seemingly leave. Right. Or we would say disappear. But you don't know at that point. What makes it seem more likely than not that they just didn't willingly leave is that they leave a bunch of stuff behind that most people would take.

Mike Gibson (14:41)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (14:42)

If they were just going to up and leap.

Mike Gibson (14:44)

Just doesn't make any sense.

Mike Ferguson (14:46)

No. Now I see. I can see a woman wanting to just get away from her husband.

Mike Gibson (14:52)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (14:53)

But you don't call your daughter. My wife and her mom talk at least once a day, if not multiple times a day.

Mike Gibson (14:59)

Well, like you said, that's. That's what they did. Multiple times throughout the day. They would have conversations to go from that down to zero.

Mike Ferguson (15:07)

Yeah, that's. And you're gonna leave and not take your car. You're this Cadillac that.

Mike Gibson (15:12)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (15:12)

She loved. I guess.

Mike Gibson (15:13)

Sounds like it was a Ford Fiesta.

Mike Ferguson (15:15)

No, things just, you know, they just don't make sense.

Mike Gibson (15:18)

Right, Right.

Mike Ferguson (15:18)

And when things don't make sense in a case, there's usually a reason why.

Mike Gibson (15:22)

Sure.

Mike Ferguson (15:23)

And detectives are, you know, they're not dumb. They. They can see all that stuff as well. On the bedroom floor was a partially packed suitcase, which had a light amount of blood spatter on it. There was also light blood spatter on the bureau and sink. So. Okay, what do we make of that? Sounds like maybe Pearl was in the process of packing.

Mike Gibson (15:50)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (15:51)

To leave. Something happened because we got blood spatter.

Mike Gibson (15:56)

What does that mean? Right. I mean, we don't know what.

Mike Ferguson (15:59)

That somebody was bloody.

Mike Gibson (16:00)

Yeah, yeah. But we just don't know.

Mike Ferguson (16:02)

Or had a wound to the extent. Yeah, we don't know what. What the extent was.

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Mike Ferguson (16:29)

Detective Barker asked Elaine if there were any other places they hadn't looked. Elaine took her outside to the entrance to the cellar. And Barker saw what appeared to be blood stains on the stairs leading down. I mean, I'm thinking if you're this detective, you're starting to get really worried.

Mike Gibson (16:46)

Yeah. I think all your spidey senses are going off.

Mike Ferguson (16:50)

You say senses because I have a scentsy. I think it's plugged into this wall right here.

Mike Gibson (16:57)

It puts out a spicy scent.

Mike Ferguson (17:00)

Scentsy. You crack me up, man. But you know, I'm just thinking. I'm not a detective, but if I was.

Mike Gibson (17:09)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (17:09)

Okay. I got some blood spatter here in the house. Now I'm seeing it leading down into the cellar. I'm starting to think to myself I might find something not so good.

Mike Gibson (17:20)

Exactly.

Mike Ferguson (17:21)

If I go down into this seller,

Mike Gibson (17:23)

I think we're on the trail or something.

Mike Ferguson (17:24)

Yeah. And it was said that it was roughly around a 500 square foot cellar.

Mike Gibson (17:30)

Okay.

Mike Ferguson (17:31)

And when she got down there, the detective, she found a cement floor and an opening that led to a dirt crawl space. Some of the soil looked like it had been disturbed. She called for backup to bring shovels.

Mike Gibson (17:46)

We're going to do some digging.

Mike Ferguson (17:48)

Yeah. First of all, there's a. There's a few things I don't like. I'm not big on sellers.

Mike Gibson (17:54)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (17:55)

I'm not big on crawl spaces.

Mike Gibson (17:57)

Most people aren't.

Mike Ferguson (17:59)

Mainly because of John Wayne Gacy. He messed up crawl spaces for everybody.

Mike Gibson (18:03)

He ruined it.

Mike Ferguson (18:03)

But, you know, I. Again, I don't know what this exactly looked like, but I'm picturing like scary movie type stuff here.

Mike Gibson (18:13)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (18:14)

Like, this is not. You're not walking down into someone's finished basement.

Mike Gibson (18:18)

Right. Right.

Mike Ferguson (18:19)

You're walking into a. A cellar. When you say cellar, it kind of denotes a certain atmosphere.

Mike Gibson (18:27)

I'm picturing spider webs and what's up

Mike Ferguson (18:30)

with you and spiders today. Spider spidey sensei. We got. We got all kinds of stuff. So detectives got down there and they dug up the crawl space, but they didn't find anything. The South Portland police chief declined at the time to call in homicide investigators from the state police and declared Pearl a missing person. And it was the following day, after all this happened, that Bill finally reported his wife missing.

Mike Gibson (18:59)

Okay. Seems like a little bit late.

Mike Ferguson (19:03)

It does. But I also want to go back and I'm like, okay, so the police chief doesn't want to call in homicide investigate.

Mike Gibson (19:11)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (19:12)

Why? Maybe it was the. The amount of blood spatter. They just didn't think it was significant enough to kind of lean homicide again. I don't know, but it doesn't seem good. Is it possible somebody cuts themselves? Yeah, absolutely. And. But most people don't just leave it there or, you know, you're dripping on a suitcase into the bathroom and then down by. In the cellar. Okay. That again, it's not all adding up to me.

Mike Gibson (19:47)

Yeah. But for whatever reason. Right. The police chiefs just didn't feel it was warranted enough to make that call.

Mike Ferguson (19:51)

Yeah. I mean, there wasn't really much explanation as to why. Now, Bill explained that he waited because Pearl would sometimes leave home for two to four days at a time to stay with a relative, but she always came back. And he did admit that they had an argument before she went missing.

Mike Gibson (20:11)

Okay. I mean, if that's the case, I get it. You know, if it's something that happened frequently. Kind of surprised, though, that he wouldn't have said something to her daughter. Yeah. Elaine, we got in one of those fights again. Your mom probably went old Aunt Betsy's for a couple days, and hopefully she'll be back soon.

Mike Ferguson (20:34)

Yeah. I think he has to explain. Right. Why he didn't report his wife missing until a number of days later. That's going to be a question that detectives are going to ask him. Bill remained the primary suspect for Detective Linda Barker, but her superiors thought that Pearl ran off with an ex husband and she did have five of them.

Mike Gibson (20:59)

Well, that's.

Mike Ferguson (21:00)

So I don't know which one they. They thought it was.

Mike Gibson (21:02)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (21:03)

Now, they did think it was concerning that Pearl didn't tell her children.

Mike Gibson (21:09)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (21:09)

That she was leaving. And we touched on that, especially Elaine, because, I mean, a lot of the reporting did center around Elaine and their relationship, but she had other children as well. And it was said she was in regular contact with all of them and she enjoyed spending time with them. So it wasn't like, you know, they were strange.

Mike Gibson (21:28)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (21:29)

Because that would be a different situation.

Mike Gibson (21:31)

Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, if she didn't typically talk to, you know, Elaine or any of her kids for periods of time.

Mike Ferguson (21:39)

Yeah.

Mike Gibson (21:39)

Then that would make sense. But that's not the case here.

Mike Ferguson (21:41)

Right. So it seems even that much more strange. Right. That she's not contacted any of them. Even if she was going to do this thing where, as her husband said, go to a relative for a few days and stay, maybe decompress after the argument and come back, you would still think she would talk to one or if not all of her children and just say, hey, want to let, you know I'm at Aunt Betsy's.

Mike Gibson (22:10)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (22:10)

I got my spidey senses and I'm good to go. But that lack of communication, to me just really jumps out.

Mike Gibson (22:19)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (22:20)

You know, in some of these cases. Over the next few weeks, Detective Barker pursued every avenue, but there wasn't a whole lot to be done. She eventually told Elaine that her hands were tied. Elaine could tell that Barker was frustrated with how the investigation was progressing. And I, you know, it's something we don't talk about a lot, but I. I think it would be very frustrating to be a detective because we know they don't solve every case.

Mike Gibson (22:50)

No.

Mike Ferguson (22:51)

So those ones that drag on and they're not solved, I mean, I would imagine there's a great deal of frustration there.

Mike Gibson (22:59)

I wonder if they, you know, have like, yearly reviews and they have, like, you know, baseball players have batting averages.

Mike Ferguson (23:06)

Well, they have. I'm sure they have clearance rates and things like that.

Mike Gibson (23:09)

I wonder how.

Mike Ferguson (23:11)

I don't know if. If their raises and things are affected by that. Probably. Yeah.

Mike Gibson (23:17)

Would be. Seem like a little bit unfair though, too, Right? I mean, you can only. Unless you're not a really good detective.

Mike Ferguson (23:23)

Yeah. I mean, if it was 10 and everybody else's was 80.

Mike Gibson (23:29)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (23:29)

Then, yeah, we're gonna have to let you go. I mean, you're.

Mike Gibson (23:32)

You're not.

Mike Ferguson (23:33)

All you're doing is sitting around eating donuts. You're not clearing any cases. But I. I do understand what you're saying. It's not like some jobs or a lot of jobs where you can get the job done.

Mike Gibson (23:47)

Right there.

Mike Ferguson (23:48)

There are some cases that just can't

Mike Gibson (23:50)

be solved, as we know, because we do many of them.

Mike Ferguson (23:53)

Yeah. Detective Patrick Lehan also believed that Bill was a suspect. Lieutenant Detective Michael Herriman agreed that Bill was matter of fact when answering questions. When the detectives expressed their worry that things had gotten out of hand and something Happened to Pearl. Bill maintained that he would not hurt his wife. Okay, what's he gonna say?

Mike Gibson (24:19)

Right?

Mike Ferguson (24:19)

I always kind of look at that. Means he's gonna say, I'm the kind of guy who, if it went too far, I'd probably hurt her.

Mike Gibson (24:28)

No, it's not gonna happen, guys.

Mike Ferguson (24:30)

Yeah, people aren't gonna say that. Detective Lehan noted that Bill said, I would never hurt my Pearly. I loved her so much. And that's when he began to question his use of past tense.

Mike Gibson (24:45)

That's a little strange to say.

Mike Ferguson (24:47)

It is. And I think some people trip themselves up with that.

Mike Gibson (24:51)

Right, right.

Mike Ferguson (24:52)

Present tense, past tense. We don't know at this point what has happened to Pearl. Bill says he doesn't know he didn't hurt her. So why in the world is he using the word loved and not love? It could be a real, as you would say, tall tale, telltale, whatever sign. TT.

Mike Gibson (25:16)

TT. It's a TT sign.

Mike Ferguson (25:18)

It's a TT sign. On August 28, 1991, Elaine called WMTW 8, Channel 8. She spoke to reporter Christine Young and shared more information about the case, such as the blood on the suitcase and cellar stairs. Young called an assistant attorney general. She recalled that when she told him the situation, he uttered a profanity.

Mike Gibson (25:43)

Oh.

Mike Ferguson (25:44)

And very quickly, the state police got involved in the investigation.

Mike Gibson (25:48)

Okay.

Mike Ferguson (25:49)

So for me, this kind of goes back to what was the police chief saying? Yeah, we don't need, you know, homicide investigators to get involved. Now we have the assistant attorney general kind of hearing about this and saying, what is going on? We need, like, somebody to. To look into this, Because I think he's viewing it kind of how we were, which is you've got blood spatter in different areas and down in the cellar. To me, at the very least, it warrants kind of a homicide type investigation.

Mike Gibson (26:30)

Sure. And so use those state resources and, you know, look at that.

Mike Ferguson (26:34)

Yeah. On September 28, 1991, a hiker in the White Mountains near Carroll, New Hampshire, found Pearl's purse. This is about 200 miles from her home.

Mike Gibson (26:46)

It's a healthy hike. Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (26:48)

I mean, it's not, you know, close really at all. Inside the purse was her driver's license, her pocketbook with cash inside, several loose diamonds and more blood spatter.

Mike Gibson (27:01)

I mean, who carries loose diamonds anymore?

Mike Ferguson (27:04)

Maybe somebody trying to get away from a very, very bad relationship.

Mike Gibson (27:08)

That's true. They're, you know, know, exchangeable for a good amount of money.

Mike Ferguson (27:12)

Yeah. I'll take your word for that. Been a while, but, yeah, I've Never fenced loose diamonds. Yeah. As you have.

Mike Gibson (27:23)

Not as easy as you think it is.

Mike Ferguson (27:25)

No, I'm sure it's not.

Mike Gibson (27:26)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (27:27)

Investigators noted that the area where Pearl's purse was found was close to Bill's trucking route, which to them, kind of raised two possibilities.

Mike Gibson (27:37)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (27:37)

Bill left the purse there as a red herring, or he dumped both the purse and Pearl's body in the woods.

Mike Gibson (27:44)

You know, and I'm just thinking, you know, why would she have these diamonds? Or why would. If. Why would. If it was him, why would he place those diamonds there? But I'm thinking, what if she was planning to leave, he came home, did what he did, and she already had those loose diamonds on her as a form of. As you mentioned, as currency to use at a later time.

Mike Ferguson (28:08)

Yeah. I mean, the suitcase kind of made me think, well, maybe she was packing up. Yeah, but the suitcase is still there.

Mike Gibson (28:19)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (28:19)

She didn't take it. There's blood spatter on it. She didn't take her Cadillac. So it doesn't really seem as though she left on her own. Yeah, but it could be that she was in the process. And maybe somebody, possibly even Bill, saw it, came home, whatever, and got upset. On November 21, 1991, state and local police set up a command post at Pearl and Bill's residence. A search dog was brought into the cellar and alerted to the scent of human decomposition. Police dug again, but again, they didn't

Mike Gibson (28:58)

find anything so bizarre.

Mike Ferguson (29:00)

It is, especially now, because at first, we had the disturbed soil in the crawl space.

Mike Gibson (29:07)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (29:07)

And I think a lot of people would look at that and say, okay, why is there. Why is the soil disturbed? Other than somebody's been digging and putting something down there, and now you have the dog hitting, but they're still not finding anything. Go ahead.

Mike Gibson (29:24)

No, sorry. I was thinking, you know, when they went and looked prior to this, maybe that was enough concern for the person, you know, him, if he did have her in that crawl space to remove her.

Mike Ferguson (29:40)

Yeah. And that's. That's exactly what investigators started to believe. Right. That perhaps Bill had hidden her body in the cellar initially, but then decided to move it. Detectives brought Bill in for questioning, but he maintained his story that Pearl was gone when he arrived home, and he never noticed any blood in the house. And I think. Yeah, I mean, you have to weigh that right on the. The plausibility meter. Did he not go into that room? Did he not go into that bathroom? Because most people are going to see that.

Mike Gibson (30:16)

Sure they are.

Mike Ferguson (30:17)

According to an affidavit on The November search. Detective Lehan told Bill that he thought he killed his wife. Detective Leanne wrote, while I said this to him, he was nodding his head in the affirmative. And then I asked him, am I wrong? And he replied, I just don't know. Which is, to me, one of the strangest replies to that question that someone could ever have.

Mike Gibson (30:43)

It really is.

Mike Ferguson (30:44)

First of all, now I get it. Some people just nod their head when other people are talking.

Mike Gibson (30:47)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (30:48)

Even if it's, like, something that they're not agreeing to. It's just maybe a habit.

Mike Gibson (30:52)

Like acknowledging what you're saying.

Mike Ferguson (30:54)

Yes.

Mike Gibson (30:55)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (30:55)

But when, you know, if you're a detective. Right. And you bring me in, you're questioning me.

Mike Gibson (31:02)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (31:03)

And you say, I think you killed your wife. Am I right? And what do I say? No. Hell no, you're not Right. I did. I didn't do anything to my wife. I would never hurt my wife. What I wouldn't say is, you know, I don't know.

Mike Gibson (31:17)

I don't. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to say that.

Mike Ferguson (31:21)

I mean, you're not. I don't expect people to admit to it because most people don't, but this I don't know type of answer is like, how could you not know you either killed your wife, did something to your wife, or you didn't?

Mike Gibson (31:35)

It's like saying no contest in front of the judge. Right. Do you plead innocent? Guilty. No contact contest. You. You figure it out. What do you think?

Mike Ferguson (31:44)

No. Doesn't no contest mean you're guilty?

Mike Gibson (31:46)

I guess.

Mike Ferguson (31:49)

I mean, I. I don't know. I'm not the master of Spidey senses, but apparently you are. I'm pretty sure when you plead no contest, that means you're guilty. You're not contesting it.

Mike Gibson (32:00)

I go neutral. I'm neutral, judge. Neutral. I don't know. You figure it out.

Mike Ferguson (32:07)

You are a true crime podcaster, right?

Mike Gibson (32:08)

I am.

Mike Ferguson (32:09)

I'm just formerly known as Gibby. I'm just checking. But, I mean, I. I don't think there's any doubt. Right. That Bill is suspect number one.

Mike Gibson (32:20)

Oh, absolutely.

Mike Ferguson (32:21)

And first of all, how could he not be? He is the husband. So even if they wouldn't call him a suspect, he's going to be the first person looked at. They're going to have to vet him and either rule him in or out. Pretty hard to rule him out based on all the things we know so far.

Mike Gibson (32:41)

No, I don't think you're checking that box off yet when you answer.

Mike Ferguson (32:45)

I don't know.

Mike Gibson (32:47)

You're not.

Mike Ferguson (32:48)

You're not ruling yourself out. Despite all of this, on November 25, the main Department of Public Safety spokesman, Stephen McCausland said state police were not treating the case as a homicide. This kind of blows me away. Yeah, I get it. They might not have at that moment. Right. The type of evidence where they could conclusively say this is, in fact, a homicide. But it just seems to me that why wouldn't you treat it as such, given what we know.

Mike Gibson (33:23)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (33:24)

And do the investigation the way you would in a homicide case if it turns out not to be a homicide? No harm, no foul, right?

Progressive Insurance Announcer (33:32)

True.

Mike Ferguson (33:33)

I think the other way around, you can cause irreparable harm. We've seen that in cases, you don't treat it as a homicide. You treat it more as an accident or the person just up and left. Later on years down the road, it turns out it was a homicide, but you have less to work with because you didn't do all the. The things you would have normally.

Mike Gibson (33:57)

Yeah. Yep. I don't want to say they got at that point. They're lazy on it, but it kind of feels like that. Right. Why wouldn't you want to do all your due diligence?

Mike Ferguson (34:07)

Yeah. I just think it's strange to me to say now we don't want, you know, homicide investigators or, you know, now they're saying, you know, even the state police, we're just, at this point, we're not treating it as a homicide. Also on the 25th, New Hampshire state troopers brought a search dog to the hiking trail where purses. Pearl's purse was found, but discovered nothing. And it was kind of a long time between the purse being found and then making the decision to bring the dog out. Yeah, they. They were questioned about it, but they declined to say why they waited so long to search this area.

Mike Gibson (34:49)

Yeah, sometimes I think if you wait too long, it just doesn't do any good.

Mike Ferguson (34:54)

Well, let's go back to your theory. Is it possible that she was in the cellar but later moved? Is it possible that if her killer knew that they found the purse, that person thought, oh, they're close to where I buried the body. They go out and get the body and bury it somewhere else. Possible.

Mike Gibson (35:17)

Very possible.

Mike Ferguson (35:18)

A few days later, Pearl's daughter, Elaine Woodward, spoke to the Journal Tribune expressing her belief that police mishandled the investigation, causing delays that may have prevented the case from being solved. Early on, Elaine couldn't understand why the police didn't share her belief that Pearl was dead, Saying, I felt like the police Were brushing me off when I knew so many things were wrong.

Mike Gibson (35:43)

I mean, I feel like she's getting frustrated.

Mike Ferguson (35:46)

Well, and let's face it, in a lot of the cases that we do, family, they're often frustrated with the police.

Mike Gibson (35:54)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (35:55)

Number one, because maybe they're not getting as many updates as they think they should be getting. They don't know everything the police is doing, but they don't think they're doing enough. Right. That's pretty common, I think, on the part of family members. But in this one, I can kind of see where the frustration comes from. Yeah. It's not like it comes out of thin air. You know, the signs to me are pointing to at least it being more likely than not that there's some sort of foul play involved here. So when you're not treating it that way. Yeah, I think people are going to. The family's going to be frustrated. Elaine claimed that Police Chief Robert Schwartz told her, the mere fact someone is missing does not mean that there is any foul play. And that's an absolutely true statement. The problem I have with that statement is it's not just the mere fact that she's missing. Add in, she didn't take her car. Why is her purse found in the woods? Why. Why is the blood spatter found? You know, it's.

Mike Gibson (37:03)

You got.

Mike Ferguson (37:03)

You have to take it all into

Mike Gibson (37:05)

consideration, add it all up and see what you have.

Mike Ferguson (37:09)

Yeah. So I. I think that statement is, while true, it's misleading in this. This the case.

Mike Gibson (37:17)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (37:18)

With the. The circumstances we've talked about. Elaine also noted that an investigating officer, quote, told me point blank that with a trail of blood like that, without a pool of blood or a body at the end of the trail, the blood means absolutely nothing. And I have a problem with that as well.

Mike Gibson (37:38)

Yep.

Mike Ferguson (37:39)

Does it mean that she was hurt or killed? No, not necessarily. Like I said, she could have maybe cut herself, could have walked around, maybe even gone down in the cellar. Maybe she didn't know that she cut herself and was dripping blood. But to say that it means absolutely nothing in conjunction with somebody disappearing, their purse being found, I think that's a little off base as well.

Mike Gibson (38:07)

Yeah. I mean, I've cut myself pretty good shaving, you know, bled for a little bit, you know, and.

Mike Ferguson (38:13)

Yeah.

Mike Gibson (38:13)

Can't get it to stop, so. Face manscape, I was going to say.

Mike Ferguson (38:18)

And that's not even to mention, like shaving your face. On December 30, 1991, police publicly acknowledged that Pearl may have been murdered. So it did really take them a little bit.

Mike Gibson (38:32)

It did.

Mike Ferguson (38:33)

Right. To at least acknowledge the fact that she may have been murdered. Detectives returned to the house with the search warrant, and. And they spent eight hours looking for evidence. Investigators sprayed luminol throughout the house, which revealed a trail of blood.

Mike Gibson (38:49)

I'm sure it did.

Mike Ferguson (38:51)

So. But, you know, it all goes back to kind of this point of, why not treat this as a homicide investigation from the very beginning? Because then you're probably doing the luminal test.

Mike Gibson (39:04)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (39:04)

Very early on.

Mike Gibson (39:05)

And you'd be much further along in this case.

Mike Ferguson (39:08)

Absolutely. Inside the cellar was an imprint of blood that was approximately the same length of Pearl's body, indicating that at some point it was resting there, possibly while someone was digging. So they questioned Bill again that night. He was informed that blood was found throughout the house. But again, he said he didn't recall seeing any blood. And now it's not just a few droplets or some spatter.

Mike Gibson (39:39)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (39:39)

This is a trail of blood. So you either didn't go anywhere near where this trail was, or you're just oblivious. Or you're lying.

Mike Gibson (39:50)

Or you're lying.

Mike Ferguson (39:51)

There's really only about three different scenarios in play here. He maintained that on August 11, he left to get dinner, and Pearl didn't want to go. He went to Dunkin Donuts and then came home. Pearl wasn't there. When he returned, he insisted he didn't know what happened to her. Now, I love Dunkin Donuts as much as the next person, but I don't normally eat dinner at Dunkin. No, they have, like, dinner, I think donuts. I mean, I know they make a bunch of different specialty drinks because that's what my kids are always going there for. Specialty coffee drinks. Obviously they have donuts.

Mike Gibson (40:33)

I think they might have, like, maybe some Danish for type sandwiches or something like that.

Mike Ferguson (40:39)

I would think if they have sandwiches, it's probably breakfast sandwiches, but I think so, too. It just doesn't seem like a dinner spot. But, hey, maybe, you know, he wanted donuts for dinner. More power, too.

Mike Gibson (40:49)

I always went to Dunkin to get those little donut holes. That's what I went there for. That's it.

Mike Ferguson (40:55)

You were a donut hole guy? Yeah, More of a Krispy Kremer.

Mike Gibson (41:00)

Are you?

Mike Ferguson (41:00)

If I can get them.

Mike Gibson (41:01)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (41:02)

With the light on, ain't nothing better.

Mike Gibson (41:04)

I like the ones that you can just, you know, pick up that bowl and just pop it in your mouth and go, good.

Mike Ferguson (41:09)

You know, you're heading down a really.

Mike Gibson (41:11)

I was worried there. I think everybody knows I'm gonna Leave it alone. I like the chocolate glaze donut, too.

Mike Ferguson (41:18)

That's where you lost me. Now you and my wife. Two peas in a pod. Yeah, I'm a glazed. I don't like chocolate as much as most people do.

Mike Gibson (41:27)

I mean, I like the glit, but

Mike Ferguson (41:28)

I really love the, like, even chocolate cake. It's not my favorite. I would rather have, like, a vanilla or.

Mike Gibson (41:34)

Yeah. How about pie? You a pie guy?

Mike Ferguson (41:37)

I do like pie, yeah. Not chocolate pie. Oh, but so that. I mean, that struck me as strange, but, I mean, if you're gonna lie about something, that seems like a strange

Mike Gibson (41:50)

thing to lie about, it sure does.

Mike Ferguson (41:52)

You could have picked something different. Maybe he just wanted donuts for dinner. I don't know.

Mike Gibson (41:55)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (41:55)

Despite the lumenal evidence, prosecutors still felt they needed to find Pearl's body to support a murder charge. In January 1992, police searched the area across I95 from the Bruns household with a specially trained dog. But nothing came of this search. On September 11, 1992, 13 months after Pearl went missing, police searched the house again, focusing on the seller and. Why wouldn't you, right, Gibbs?

Mike Gibson (42:26)

Yeah, I mean, I think that makes

Mike Ferguson (42:27)

good sense that something happened in that cellar.

Mike Gibson (42:30)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (42:31)

I don't know exactly what it was.

Mike Gibson (42:32)

I mean, it's a reoccurring place to visit.

Mike Ferguson (42:35)

Well, I. I thought about that when there was blood spatter.

Mike Gibson (42:39)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (42:39)

Now we find out that there was blood the length of her body, as though she had been resting there at some point. Most likely while someone was digging a hole to put her into.

Mike Gibson (42:51)

Yeah. And the dog hit there, too, right? Yeah, so.

Mike Ferguson (42:54)

And the dog hit there. But this time, investigators brought in a geophysicist who used ground penetrating radar, and they detected an anomaly in the crawl space. And you know, that ground penetrating radar is used quite a bit. This technology, though, fascinates.

Mike Gibson (43:14)

Sure.

Mike Ferguson (43:14)

Is mean technology in general, but especially as it relates to the. The world of true crime and cases. Obviously, you got the DNA and, and that type of forensic stuff, but you also have things like, you know, ground pen penetrating radar just to be able to see and. And they use it for stuff other than true crime, but to be able to see what's under there without first generation jackhammering or digging it up.

Mike Gibson (43:42)

Yeah. So you're not destroying the whole area. You're like, okay, let's do this and see if we can find a void that makes sense for us to dig in.

Mike Ferguson (43:49)

Because how many cases have we done where a wife has gone missing and it turns out that the husband Poured a patio right after that.

Mike Gibson (43:58)

Conveniently.

Mike Ferguson (43:59)

But, you know, can you just go and dig people's patios up if you're not sure? No, but could you run a machine over it and maybe tell if there's something under there? Yeah, possibly.

Mike Gibson (44:11)

Saves. Saves the county or city some money

Mike Ferguson (44:16)

from having to replace it if he

Mike Gibson (44:17)

didn't need to tear it up.

Mike Ferguson (44:18)

Yeah. Police only had to dig up a couple of shovelfuls of dirt before they hit something. It was a head wrapped in a garbage bag. The body was wrapped in bags and buried under just about a foot of soil. The victim was immediately identified as Pearl Bruns, based on her shoes and monogrammed watch.

Mike Gibson (44:43)

It makes you wonder how they missed it.

Mike Ferguson (44:45)

Exactly. It's almost shocking.

Mike Gibson (44:47)

Yeah. Right.

Mike Ferguson (44:48)

They. They were down there multiple times you mentioned it. Right. The dog hit down there. They searched the crawl space, but they couldn't find her. And she's only under about a foot of dirt.

Mike Gibson (45:03)

Unless she was moved, brought back.

Mike Ferguson (45:06)

Yeah, I get that. It's possible.

Mike Gibson (45:08)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (45:09)

Bill was arrested in his kitchen while he was eating spaghetti. Okay. He insisted that he be allowed to finish his meal.

Mike Gibson (45:18)

Yeah, let me finish my spaghetti, then I'll get to you guys. Okay.

Mike Ferguson (45:21)

But they ignored his demand.

Mike Gibson (45:24)

I'm sure they did. They probably. No, you're. You're gonna go with us right now.

Mike Ferguson (45:28)

Put that damn meatball down and put your hands behind your back. Many people question why it took investigators so long. Right. To find Pearl if she had been in the cellar the whole time. Kind of the question that we were just talking about. The journal Tribune reported that the cellar was as wide as the house, but the crawl space was only about 3ft high. And that's right. Crawl spaces are usually cramped.

Mike Gibson (45:57)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (45:57)

Why they call them crawl.

Mike Gibson (45:58)

Yeah. You're normally on your hands and knees if you're in them.

Mike Ferguson (46:00)

That's why I don't like them not getting under. There could be all kinds of animals and Raccoon, skunk. I'm not messing with no raccoon, spiders, spidey sense, or sensi. Yeah, that's gonna go down in history because

Mike Gibson (46:18)

I'm sure you won't let me forget it.

Mike Ferguson (46:20)

Now, that and other people won't either. According to state police Sergeant Michael Harriman, it would have been impossible to dig up the whole cellar by hand. And they were faced with removing the house from the foundation and excavating or just isolating a particular area and digging. So I think maybe that helps, kind of say. Or make it a little more reasonable as to why police didn't find her body beforehand.

Mike Gibson (46:51)

Right, Right.

Mike Ferguson (46:52)

This crawl space, although not very tall, it's as wide as. As the house.

Mike Gibson (46:58)

Yeah. It's a pretty good area to cover.

Mike Ferguson (47:00)

So there's quite a bit of dirt there. And they probably did do some digging, but never found the first few times or whatever. But you could see why people will question it. I get that. At Bill's arraignment, it was announced that Pearl had been struck in the head three times by a fist, causing her to bleed to death. Specifically, she died from blood loss from fractures to the nose and left side of the face.

Mike Gibson (47:30)

Pretty powerful punch. Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (47:33)

I mean, vicious, Right? Most of the time we're talking about blunt force trauma, but from some type of object. This is blunt force trauma solely from this man's hands.

Mike Gibson (47:46)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (47:46)

And he killed her.

Mike Gibson (47:48)

Pretty powerful hit.

Mike Ferguson (47:50)

Sounds like it. She suffered a fracture of the left orbitable bone. Orbitable orbital bone.

Mike Gibson (47:58)

Gonna correct you, but I didn't want to do it in front of everybody.

Mike Ferguson (48:01)

Well, you can. Makes it seem like you didn't catch it when you don't. It was said if treated, this injury would probably not have been fatal. Prosecutors believe that the argument between Pearl and Bill got physical. She was likely knocked unconscious when he hit her and left to. Left her to bleed to death. Medical records also showed that Pearl had been recently diagnosed with terminal cancer and she actually had less than six months to live.

Mike Gibson (48:29)

Really?

Mike Ferguson (48:30)

Police chief Robert Schwartz defended the investigation and. And said his department, quote, did everything possible. However, two state police investigators said the first observations of bloodstains at the home could have intensified suspicions earlier in the case. And I don't know how someone couldn't agree with that. You've got blood stains. Maybe we should treat this as a homicide investigation.

Mike Gibson (48:59)

That's kind of burnt you, this whole episode.

Mike Ferguson (49:01)

It has. You know, it has. Because we've seen it so often. Why not air on that side? Because for me, there's really no downside other than more work. But if you go the other way there, there are ramifications. Yeah, negative ramifications. Schwartz noted that a detective was assigned to the case full time before state police took over in the late fall. And the blood found in the home was a couple of blood drippings. That's all. So you got two sides to the story. He added, there was not copious amounts of blood that anyone would suspect was any more than cutting your finger or a bloody nose. It wasn't a puddle of blood, but there was a puddle of blood. Yeah, they're a trail of blood. They Just couldn't see it. Right. If they had gone just a step further and done the luminal earlier, then

Mike Gibson (49:55)

they could have put that picture together.

Mike Ferguson (49:57)

Yeah.

Mike Gibson (49:57)

Yep.

Mike Ferguson (49:58)

So I get both sides of it, but I, I'm, I'm sticking with my assertion that, that, that they could have erred on the side of foul play. Something wasn't right there. State Police Sgt. Michael Herman said he didn't want to discredit the local police. But when assessing the initial handling of the case, he said certainly blood found at the scene should raise suspicion. A determination of where the blood came from is important. It's a judgment call on the part of the police department and I get that. I think what he's saying is they just made the wrong judgment call. Chief Schwarz maintained there was no reason to suspect foul play in the beginning. He said, if you look at this logically, you've got a woman who was divorced a few times or a woman with alcohol problems. She's left before. She has another daughter in Florida. Who's to say she wasn't just leaving him? They had money problems.

Mike Gibson (50:58)

I mean, it's possible, it's possible.

Mike Ferguson (51:01)

There's also some victim blaming there though, too. Right. He's trying to cover his ass, but at the same time kind of blaming the victim.

Mike Gibson (51:09)

Right.

Mike Ferguson (51:10)

She's been married a bunch of times. She's got problems with alcohol. Yeah. Okay. Does that mean that you shouldn't have done a little bit more investigating? I don't think so.

Mike Gibson (51:20)

Are you saying because she's a divorcee and a five time divorcee and an alcoholic that we really shouldn't put the effort behind it?

Mike Ferguson (51:29)

Yeah. Making the assumption that somebody ran away, I, I think that's, that's part of the problem. On April 4, 1994, Bill Bruns agreed to plead guilty to manslaughter because a jury would have convicted him of the same charge, according to his lawyer. Before trial, prosecutors acknowledged much of the evidence was circumstantial, but it all pointed to Bill. And I get the circumstantial evidence part, but you know, when the person, the victim is found in your crawl space.

Mike Gibson (52:02)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (52:03)

In bags. That's a lot of circumstantial evidence.

Mike Gibson (52:07)

That's pretty strong evidence.

Mike Ferguson (52:08)

Yeah. It's going to, it's going to sway the jury, I think pretty heavily.

Mike Gibson (52:12)

I think so.

Mike Ferguson (52:13)

On September 30, 1994, Bill was sentenced to 15 years in prison. The Journal Tribune reported that the events surrounding Pearl's death remained a mystery. The judge also noted that Bill had not Chosen to reveal the circumstances behind Pearl's death, the defense read a statement on Bill's behalf expressing his regret. He wrote, I never intended for any of this to happen. I loved Pearl and I miss her very much. And that could be true, right? This could have been a crime of passion or a heat of the moment thing. Could have been they got out of control. But he still did kill her.

Mike Gibson (52:54)

Yeah.

Mike Ferguson (52:55)

And by the sounds of it, if treated, she would have lived. So there's that factor as well.

Mike Gibson (53:04)

He just didn't get her help because he didn't care.

Mike Ferguson (53:07)

I don't know what the answer is because he hasn't said. Bill was 63 at the time of sentencing. Taking into account two years he had already served and time for good behavior. Bill was likely to be released by the time he turned 71, but couldn't really find too much out about Bill.

Mike Gibson (53:28)

Kind of a man of mystery.

Mike Ferguson (53:30)

Yeah, I mean, that was what, 30 years ago? So obviously Bill's not alive probably at this point.

Mike Gibson (53:38)

Pretty and pretty.

Mike Ferguson (53:40)

Pretty doubtful he would be, you know, 90 some years old.

Mike Gibson (53:44)

He could be alive, most likely not,

Mike Ferguson (53:48)

but 15 years in prison, I get it. It was manslaughter. And it could very well have been, as we wrap this one up, that he didn't mean to kill her, but he did kill her. And, you know, his actions killed her. So.

Mike Gibson (54:06)

Exactly.

Mike Ferguson (54:07)

You got. You. You got to live with that. And you got to pay the price for that.

Mike Gibson (54:10)

You do need to pay the price,

Mike Ferguson (54:12)

but that's for another episode of True Crime all the time.

Mike Gibson (54:16)

Okay.

Mike Ferguson (54:16)

You got anything you want to say? No.

Mike Gibson (54:18)

That we just love you guys.

Mike Ferguson (54:20)

Yep. We love you as always. And we'll come back at you next week with a brand new episode. Yeah. So until then, for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

Progressive Insurance Announcer (54:33)

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