Robert Chae

Summary

True Crime All The Time — Episode 494: The Murder of Robert Chae

Hosts: Mike Ferguson & Mike Gibson
Release Date: May 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this intense episode, Mike Ferguson and Mike “Gibby” Gibson explore the tragic 2009 home invasion and murder of Robert Chae, a successful and beloved Korean-American businessman from Philadelphia. The hosts break down the case, from Chae’s inspiring immigrant journey to the investigation and the shocking betrayal at the center of the crime. Listeners are guided through the events of the crime, the police investigation, and the resulting trials and sentences, as well as the complex familial dynamics that led to such a heartbreaking outcome.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Robert Chae’s Background and Legacy

• (03:53) Robert Chae was born in South Korea in 1950, moved to the U.S. seeking the American dream, and became a successful business owner of a Korean beauty supply store in Philadelphia.
• (06:28) He was deeply respected in the community, had no known enemies, hired people in need, and led the Pennsylvania Korean Beauty Supply Association.
• Quote — Mike Ferguson:

  "He was well liked. He was highly respected by everyone who knew him. He had no known enemies." (06:10)

• The Chae family settled in North Wales, a Philly suburb. In 2009, his children were adults.

The Crime: Brutal Home Invasion and Murder

• (08:35) On January 9, 2009, at 5 a.m., as Robert and his wife Janice left for work, they were ambushed by three gunmen.
• (09:53) Janice and the adult children were forced to the basement and bound. The robbers demanded the location of a safe; Janice complied to protect her family.
• (09:55) Janice made a daring escape, alerting a neighbor and calling 911.
• Quote — Gibson:

  "It's a risk, but I think if you feel like you can get away and get to a phone or to somebody that can make a call, that's the way to go, because...you don't know what their intentions are.” (11:03)

• The robbers fled, but left Robert beaten and suffocated—his head wrapped in duct tape, hands zip-tied, left to die in the garage.
• (12:26) Autopsy revealed Robert asphyxiated on his own blood after his nose was broken and covered by duct tape.
• Quote — Ferguson:

  “They used an entire roll of duct tape, according to one detective.” (11:47)
  “He was beaten so badly that investigators thought he'd been stabbed.” (12:28)

The Investigation and Discovery of the Conspiracy

• Police quickly suspected the crime was planned, as the robbers wore no masks and knew the family’s habits (14:28).
• Evidence and statements indicated the attackers knew what would be found and exactly when to strike, suggesting inside information.
• (17:19) Police learned that Robert’s nephew, Angelo Shin, had lived with the family and recently started associating with a "bad crowd."
• Quote — Ferguson:

  "Here's a guy related to the family, but also lived with them for about a year...he most likely knew they had the Safe." (18:01)

• Burner cell phone records tied Shin to the crime and unveiled the circle of conspirators.
• Shin quickly confessed to police that he tipped off his friend Joseph Page about the money in the Chae's safe, hoping to “impress” him (19:00).

Co-Conspirators and the Botched Robbery Plan

• The plan spiraled as Page spread the information to five others: Amitati Latham, Robert Eatman, Khari Pitts, Julius Wise, and Sybil White (19:39).
• The group’s plan: three would invade the home, others were lookouts/getaway drivers.
• Quote — Ferguson:

  “That's a lot of people for a job.” (20:13)

• The robbers used cell phones to communicate inside the home during the invasion (17:19).
• Memorable exchange:

  Ferguson: “Can we also talk about how this guy, like, literally caved immediately?”
  Gibson: “No backbone. I mean, I’m glad he caved.” (21:28)

The Arrests and Charges

• Three numbers linked to burner phones implicated Shin and his circle.
• All but Angelo were charged with second-degree murder; Shin, who did not enter the home, was charged with third-degree murder (25:02).
• Sybil White, the teenage getaway driver, was paid $500 to drive the group but claimed to know little about the true plan (32:29).
• (22:07) Prosecutor Reza Vetri Fuhrman:

  “Angelo is a traitor to his family, his people. His treachery is the lowest kind ever seen. He got $2,000 to betray his family.”

The Trials: Evidence, Testimonies, and Sentences

• Powerful evidence: DNA links, cell phone geo-fencing, eyewitness identifications.
• (34:09) Confessions and police informants, as well as detailed testimony, exposed the network of planning (one meeting even required calling Shin for directions).
• Sybil White and Angelo Shin pleaded guilty to third-degree murder. Eatman, one of the getaway drivers, admitted his role and later testified (32:29, 43:32).
• (39:08) Dramatic courtroom moment:

  "He came right up to me and put a gun to my head." — Janice Che, about her confrontation with Latham.

• Amitati Latham confessed late in the trial, but tried to exonerate Page and Pitts by blaming Eatman and a new “O” character, muddling the narrative (48:44).
• Minna Che, Robert's daughter, shared the horror of finding her father and the terror they felt in the basement:

  “I really thought in the basement that we were all going to die.” (46:20)

• Verdict (52:41): Page and Latham convicted of second-degree murder, Pitts acquitted (due to lack of evidence). Shin and others sentenced to varying prison terms.

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Notable Quotes & Critical Moments (with Timestamps)

• On betrayal:

  “We all know who the real bad person is. ... He’s the person who started it. We believe that if it wasn’t for him, everything would be normal.” — Richard Che (Outside court, 54:16)

• On the brutality:

  "He was beaten so badly that investigators thought he’d been stabbed.” — Ferguson (12:28)

• On family betrayal:

  “That he did all this for $2,000.” — Gibson (23:26)

• On the cruel rationalization from the killers:

  “He was screaming and kicking, so they had to hurt him a little bit.” — recounted from Joseph Page (24:13)

• On the mastermind’s fate:

  "Angelo is a traitor to his family, his people. His treachery is the lowest kind ever seen." — Prosecutor Fuhrman (22:02)

• On justice:

  “There can be no justification whatsoever for what occurred. This defendant is not capable, in my judgment, of rehabilitation.” — Judge at sentencing (55:04)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 03:53 – Chae’s early years, immigration, business legacy
• 08:35 – Crime details: the home invasion and Janice’s escape
• 12:26 – Autopsy & brutality of Robert Chae’s murder
• 14:28 – Police theory of inside job, evidence of casing
• 17:19 – Focus on nephew Angelo Shin, his betrayal
• 19:39 – Expansion of the conspiracy to six more perpetrators
• 21:28 – Shin’s confession and attempt to avoid responsibility
• 22:07 – Stark condemnation from the prosecution
• 25:02 – Details of the hunt for the suspects, their arrests
• 32:29 – Testimony of teenage getaway driver Sybil White
• 34:09 – Guilty pleas and critiques on the planning/execution
• 39:08 – Courtroom confrontation: Janice identifies her attacker
• 46:20 – Minna Chae on finding her father and fear for their lives
• 48:44 – Latham’s in-trial confession and its complications
• 52:41 – Trial verdicts
• 54:16 – Family’s emotional reactions; Shin’s central role discussed
• 55:02–56:12 – Sentencing: life for Page & Latham; severe sentences for the rest

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Reflections & Analysis

• The hosts repeatedly highlight the absolute devastation that inside betrayal causes, especially within immigrant families who have sacrificed so much ("Nothing happens without [Angelo Shin]" — 54:19).
• The contrast between the outwardly respectable lives of the Chae family and the hidden resentment and envy harbored by Shin is discussed in-depth.
• The technical aspects of the investigation (cell phone triangulation, DNA, eyewitness IDs) are broken down to show the thoroughness of modern policing.
• The sentencing is contrasted with Canadian sentences, leading to reflection about what true justice and closure mean for grieving families.

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Final Thoughts

The hosts close the episode with a somber reminder of the real loss behind true crime stories. Robert Chae’s hard work, kindness, and family legacy were all destroyed in one brutal act—set in motion by a loved one’s betrayal. The detailed discussion showcases how personal choices, opportunism, and peer pressure can explode into tragedy, and how the justice system seeks to piece together the truth in the aftermath.

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For more lesser-known stories and deep dives into how and why these tragedies unfold, subscribe to True Crime All The Time.

Transcript

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[Mike Gibson]

Foreign.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 494 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

I'm doing okay, man. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm doing great. Having a good week. Although, you know, I normally have a good week.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you are a good week kind of type of guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

I kind of like my life, to be honest with you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you got a good life, you know, good family, good kids. Part of your family.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I am blessed. I am blessed.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Natasha Jones.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Natasha?

[Mike Ferguson]

Tony Mathis.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, that's like the kung fu praying man, this.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, it's Mathis, but if you want to say Mantis, you can.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's the. That's the short version of that before they changed it. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yana.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Yana.

[Mike Ferguson]

Don Birch.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Dawn?

[Mike Ferguson]

Lulu.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Lou. Thank you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Justine.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on? Justine?

[Mike Ferguson]

Brianna. Michelle.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, thanks, Brianna.

[Mike Ferguson]

Suzanne. Jackson.

[Mike Gibson]

There it is. Jackson.

[Mike Ferguson]

Dana Stark.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey. Dana Stark. I feel like that's like related to some Stark industries.

[Mike Ferguson]

You think she's part of a fictional multi billionaire family?

[Mike Gibson]

Do you think it's fictional?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I believe it is. So if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Stephanie Gulik.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Stephanie.

[Mike Ferguson]

So we appreciate all the Patreon support that we get. Gibbs. We have an episode out right now on True Crime all the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Cecilia Devine. She went missing from Newcastle New south Wales in September 2018. Her remains were found six months later in a dam near Katoomba, where. Which was quite a bit aways from her home. So we'll get into all the details. That's out now. Check it out. And then on Thursday's TCAT, we talk about 18 year old Brittany Gargle, who was found dead on the side of the road in Saskatoon, Canada in March 2015. And this is a fascinating case because police used social media to solve her murder and they really focused in on a selfie taken with her friend on the night she died.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it was an interesting case.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime?

[Mike Gibson]

All the Time I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We are discussing Robert Che. Robert Che was a successful Philadelphia businessman who was murdered during a home invasion. The brutality of the crime left his close knit community on edge as investigators work to identify multiple suspects. Robert Che was born on March 10, 1950. He grew up in South Korea. He came from a low income family and he wanted to move to the United States to pursue the American dream.

[Mike Gibson]

That's awesome.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, so many people want that, have done that and many have been very successful. He was married to Janice Che. They had two children, Richard and Minna, who were adults at the time of his death. The family settled in the Philadelphia area. In 1989, Robert and his family moved to North Wales, which is a suburb of Philadelphia. And we talked about it on Patreon, but I've never been to Philadelphia and I'm ashamed to say that.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you need to go and get yourself some of that good Philadelphia food.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would go just for the history. Yeah, I'm a history buff. And that would be, that would be great. So Robert owned his own business for 25 years. In 1994, he was one of the first to open a Korean beauty supply store in Philadelphia. Before that, he owned a cafe in the same location. The restaurant industry was tiring and he wanted something that was a little bit slower paced. Robert still went to work every day

[Mike Gibson]

to sort inventory and think about it. Korean beauty products are like big time now. It's a few. If you're into like skin care and stuff, I guess the Korean beauty products are the ones to have.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay. Did not know that. So as you can tell, I'm not into skin care at all. Probably should be maybe a little bit more than I am, but I could understand, you know, like a cafe, a restaurant, man, that, that would be, I think, a lot of hard work. I mean, any business is hard work. But you think of, like, the food service industry, it's go, go. I could see how that would be

[Mike Gibson]

very tiring, maybe tough for you to have something like that, because I think you. You would eat the profits.

[Mike Ferguson]

I would. So it'd be no profit.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Robert and Janice left their home at 5am to drive into the city. Robert worked long hours to provide for his family. And he was known for hiring people experiencing homelessness.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like a good guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, sounds like a guy who really wants to help people out with when they're having a hard time. Robert was one of the most successful individuals in the Korean beauty supply business in that area. From 2005 to 2007, he was president of the Pennsylvania Korean Beauty Supply Association. He more than tripled membership and began a program of awarding college scholarships to the sons and daughters of customers. So, I mean, it was said Gibbs in every article by everyone that Robert was well liked. He was highly respected by everyone who knew him. He had no known enemies.

[Mike Gibson]

And we hear that a lot in some of these cases. Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which you have to imagine can make it a little tougher for police. Right. In trying to solve someone's murder. Be easier when a person has one, like mortal enemy or a couple of people who really dislike them and would want to see them dead.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, he was known to be a real asshole and he did this and that to these people. And, you know, at that point, the police could, you know, focus in on that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but they. But with a person who has no known enemies, I mean, who do you start to focus in on? On January 9, 2009, Robert and Janice were up early and out the door at 5am to go to work as they always did. Man, 5am I have barely hit my rim cycle. I just climbed into bed about an hour or two.

[Mike Gibson]

I was gonna say you started. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

5:00am is early. Now, I did have a job one time where I had to be at work at 4am but that was a long time ago.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. No, thank you.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's my younger days.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

As soon as Robert opened the garage door to go to his car, he was attacked by three gunmen. While Robert was tied up and badly beaten, Janice and Richard and Minna, who were sleeping in their rooms, were forced down to the basement and bound. I mean, this is a nightmarish situation. We talked about Robert wanting to take care of his family, as most husbands, fathers do. Well, okay, part of that is, financially, you want to be able to provide, but you also want to ensure that your family is safe.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And this is A situation where he's not going to have control over that.

[Mike Gibson]

This is a really scary situation.

[Mike Ferguson]

The robbers demanded that Janice tell them where the money was. One of the robbers watched Richard and Minna while Janice led the other two to a safe and. And opened it for them. They took cash and other valuable items. And I don't know how you don't do that in that situation. I mean, it's the same thing. They tell, like, you know, bank tellers or convenience store workers just give them whatever they want. Right? Money's replaceable. Your life is not.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. Just go with the flow.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think for Janice, that decision had to be very easy because her son and daughter are there. She has to try to protect them. And at this point, she probably has no idea what's going on with Robert. Janice was soon able to escape out the basement door. She ran to her neighbor Pam Lambert's house, ringing the doorbell frantically. When Pam answered, Janice said, Call 9, 1 1. Call 9 1, 1. My husband. My husband. Three men. When the robbers discovered Janus was gone, the they also fled through the basement door and drove off in a dark colored suv. The police arrived minutes later, but the suspects were gone. So I think we have to break this down a little bit. You know, this is, I think, a very tough decision for someone in Janice's position. Number one, you want to get away so that you can call for help to try to save your family. But on the flip side, Gibbs, you're leaving your kids and your husband there while you escape.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, it's a risk, but I think if you feel like you can get away and get to a phone or to somebody that can make a call, that's the way to go, because you don't know what their intentions are. After they got that money, what were they going to do with you and the kids?

[Mike Ferguson]

Right? It may be the only way to save anybody. Richard and Minna were alive and still bound with duct tape, but Robert was dead. His hands were zip tied behind his back. His head had been wrapped in tape, leaving only his nose exposed. Robert's head was wrapped so many times, it looked like the killers used an entire roll of duct tape, according to one detective.

[Mike Gibson]

I guess they want to make sure it was all wrapped up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, any. Anybody that's had a big roll of duct tape. There is quite a bit on a roll.

[Mike Gibson]

There is.

[Mike Ferguson]

So let's assume that it was a new roll. You are wrapping that around somebody's face quite a few times to use up that whole thing. Robert was so badly Beaten. That authorities thought that he'd been stabbed. But it was determined that Robert died of asphyxiation from his own blood. Clotting blood from his broken nose sealed the small hole through which he had been breathing.

[Mike Gibson]

Wow. Suffocated well.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I said this was a very brutal attack. He was beaten so badly that investigators thought he'd been stabbed. You just got to let that sink in.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Janus described how the three unmasked robbers attacked Robert and forced their way inside. One man beat Robert and held him in the garage. The others forced her into the house and demanded access to the safe. Investigators determined that the robbers left with $20,000 in cash, jewelry, and purses. Investigators wondered why the robbers exposed their faces and how they knew the family had a safe. And this, for me, goes back to, you know, if you're Janice, do you make the decision that if you can, you bolt out of that door? To me, the fact that these people weren't wearing masks would make me think that I got to do whatever I have to do, because how can they leave us all alive when they're not covering their faces?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, they don't, because they're not going to want to leave any eyewitnesses. No.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's almost like, did they not cover their faces because they weren't expecting to leave any witnesses alive? Police immediately suspected the robbers had been casing the house and waiting in the driveway because they knew what time Robert and Janice left for work. It was highly unlikely for three robbers to be lurking around a peaceful suburban neighborhood at exactly the moment his garage door opened. A garbage collector soon reported seeing an SUV with three people circling the blocks days before the murder. And I think that's a good observation. Right. What are the chances that you've got a roving gang of robbers just kind of going around, and then all of a sudden, they see this garage door open, and they. They see it as an opportunity.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, that's so unlikely.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's like they knew what time that garage door was going to open. They knew what time Robert and Janice left the house. They knew a lot about this family, including the fact that they had a safe with a lot of cash and valuables.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, they felt pretty confident about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I think if you're the police, knowing all that, it has to inform the direction that you take. Right. These people either knew the family, knew someone in the family, or were given information by someone who knew the family. This was not a complete stranger robbery, murder.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. They got information somehow.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Janice recalled. The intruders were talking to each other on their phones from different floors of the house. Detectives analyzed phone records in the area and a sketch artist created composites of the suspects faces. After the murder, Janice, Richard and Minna stayed with Robert's sister, her husband and Robert's nephew, 25 year old Angelo Shinn. Angelo spent a year living with the Chase after he moved to the US he eventually moved out but remained in North Wales. Recently he had fallen in with a bad crowd. Okay, again, if you're the police, that has to pique your interest.

[Mike Gibson]

It has to. I agree.

[Mike Ferguson]

Here's a guy related to the family but also lived with them for about a year, meaning he knew their habits. He most likely knew they had the Safe, he would have had quite a

[Mike Gibson]

bit of information and maybe he knew that they kept a substantial amount of money in that safe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators got a break in the case when they they identified three numbers linked to burner phones that were in regular communication around the time of the murder. One of those numbers belonged to Angelo Shin. When Angelo was called in for questioning, he appeared devastated and he immediately came clean. Angelo revealed that he had recently befriended 24 year old Joseph Page, a Philadelphia local. He tried to impress Page by telling him he knew where they could find $100,000. He believed his uncle kept the cash in his safe.

[Mike Gibson]

It's a weird way to try to impress your friend, right? Or this guy. You want to be your friend, but

[Mike Ferguson]

is it if these people are in what was described as kind of the bad crowd or however you want to say it, well, it probably means they're doing some illegal stuff already. Maybe they're into drugs, maybe they're looking for money. So he's like, hey, I know where we can get our hands on some money.

[Mike Gibson]

But once you open that door, you know that they're gonna want to go down that route. It's not like they're gonna be like, yeah, 2,800 grand. We're not gonna mess with it, man, and it's your uncle. We don't want to do that to him.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, Angelo tried to tell the police that he wasn't real serious right around about the robbery. But it was too late because Paige had already told five of his friends about it. 25 year old Amitati Latham, 33 year old Robert Eatman, 18 year old Kare Pitts, 32 year old Julius Wise, and 17 year old Sybil White. The idea was that three would go inside the house while the others would act as lookouts and getaway drivers. Everyone would split the money.

[Mike Gibson]

That's a lot of people for a job.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. But $100,000 is a lot of money. And let's say everybody's getting 20 or 15 or whatever it is. That is a boatload of money to

[Mike Gibson]

many, many people for a short amount of work. I get it in and out kind of quick.

[Mike Ferguson]

And let's not forget they have the inside knowledge.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

So he's feeding them this knowledge that, hey, they leave at 5 in the morning, be easy, tie them up, go in. My thought is they weren't planning on killing anybody. Let's just say that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So to your point, kind of in and out, tie people up. I'm not excusing it. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but from their way of thinking, 20 grand or 15 grand, for what, 30 minutes? An hour, max.

[Mike Gibson]

Yep. It's good money for criminals.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's hard to pass up. Yeah. Angelo identified Pitts and Joseph Page from police photos and said they were with him at a planning session. Can we also talk about how this guy, like, literally caved immediately?

[Mike Gibson]

No backbone. I mean, I'm glad he caved.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. But I just wonder if he thought that by laying it at the feet of all these other people, it was going to somehow absolve him.

[Mike Gibson]

I think he thought it was going to help him somehow, but I don't know how he would think he would be let off the hook.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because when somebody dies in the commission of a crime and you were involved.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You helped plan it, there's going to be some serious repercussions for you.

[Mike Gibson]

And I doubt his family's going to want anything to do with him after that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, that's a great point. Now, maybe he thought that he would get the sweetheart deal. Right. If he was the first one to cave and kind of roll over on the other individuals and testify against them. That's always possible. He said that no one was supposed to get hurt. Angelo maintained that he did not participate in the actual robbery. When Angelo asked Paige why he killed Robert, Page suggested it was Robert's fault for fighting back. You want to talk about the ultimate victim blaming?

[Mike Gibson]

Man, some nerve there.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was his fault for fighting back. No, it was your fault for taping him up with a thousand yards of duct tape so that he couldn't breathe. On February 4, 2009, Angelo Shin and five others were charged with murder. Prosecutors revealed that Angelo helped plan the robbery, which Paige and the others then carried out. Montgomery county prosecutor Reza Vetri Fuhrman said at a press conference, angelo is a traitor to his family, his people. His treachery is the lowest kind ever seen. He got $2,000 to betray his family.

[Mike Gibson]

Man, that's really sad. It really is.

[Mike Ferguson]

That.

[Mike Gibson]

That he did all this for $2,000. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now I get it. He didn't think anybody was going to be killed. I understand that part.

[Mike Gibson]

And he thought there was gonna be more money in the safe.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's true. He was telling Everybody there was 100. It turned out there wasn't anywhere near that much in there. But still, 2,000, 15,000. To betray your own family. Ah, we've seen people kill for a lot less than that. But it's still hard to believe. According to a Report by the Philadelphia Inquirer. After the robbery, Paige called Angela to complain about not getting enough money. And it was hours later that page gave Angelo $2,000 for his participation. When he asked why his uncle had been killed, Page said he had been screaming and kicking, so they had to hurt him a little bit.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, they did more than just hurt him a little bit.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, that's for sure. Police also learned of Angelo's involvement, not just through cell phone records, but also because an informant told them Kari Pitts had been overheard talking about a two car, seven person robbery crew. And that was my other thought, Gibbs. How in the world did these people think that five, six, seven people being involved, nothing was going to get leaked? That's a lot of people involved in a job.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was also reported that Robert Eatman told detectives he was the lookout and that Amitati Latham called him from inside the house to say that Joseph Page went crazy and he kept hitting and hitting Robert Che. So they had Angelo and three others. And all four of them were arraigned, but Page and Pitts remained at large. All but Angelo were charged with second degree murder. Angelo was charged with third degree murder. Pitts turned himself in the following day. On February 19, 2009, U.S. marshals found Joseph Page in a woman's apartment near Wakefield park in the Logan neighborhood of Philadelphia. He showed them a fake ID with the name James Mears. But his neck tattoo and fingerprints gave him away.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, See, he thought he was going to be able to be sneaky.

[Mike Ferguson]

And this is why I always say, you know, you got to watch out for those neck and face tattoos. Even if Mike Tyson wasn't famous, do you know how easy it would be to describe him because of that crazy tattoo he has around his eyes and his face?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Yeah, you can't hide that kind of stuff.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, it's hard. I guess you could wear a ski mask or something like that, but they weren't even wearing masks, so obviously they. They weren't trying to cover up their. Their necks or their tattoos at all.

[Mike Gibson]

I just wonder, if Janice didn't get out of there, what would have really happened?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Again, I go back to planning the robbery and planning to take all of these people hostage or, you know, at least bind them, but make the conscious decision not to cover your face. To me, that screams that there were plans not to leave anyone alive. Yeah. Now, it doesn't necessarily absolutely mean that, but I know I would be thinking that if I was in that position, hey, I got to do whatever I can because These people decided not to wear masks for a reason.

[Mike Gibson]

And maybe they went into this thinking they weren't going to kill anybody, but once he died, they could have changed

[Mike Ferguson]

their way of thinking.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, because I think.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think.

[Mike Gibson]

Hate to say it, but you almost kind of have to because now you just murdered somebody and people have seen your face. Right? She's seen their face.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, I could understand that, too. How maybe their way of thinking could have changed after, you know, Robert dying. At the preliminary hearing, Richard Che testified that on the morning of January 9, he was shaken awake by two men, one of whom pistol whipped him. He was dragged from his bedroom into the basement where three men bound him with duct tape. They wanted money from the safe. The family agreed, but it seemed that they weren't satisfied and that they thought that we had more. Well, yeah, they thought that because Angelo Shin told them there would be at least a hundred thousand dollars.

[Mike Gibson]

That's right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Richard and Janice freed themselves from their restraints while the men were upstairs looking for more money. She ran outside and he ran upstairs and barred himself in his bedroom. Then called 91 1. And I get it, Gibbs, this would be a very chaotic, you know, situation. You're trying to get free. But it did seem like kind of mom and son left the daughter slash sister kind of there by herself.

[Mike Gibson]

Kind of sounds like it. It also sounds like these weren't the best robbers.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. Obviously they didn't do a very good job of restraining these people. They were able to get out pretty easily. Robert Eatman appeared as a witness against Paige, Pitts and Latham, who were the three defendants at the hearing. Eatman testified that Angelo Shin set the stage for the home invasion in late 2008 when he told them Robert Che had a safe containing cash and other valuables. Joseph Page talked to Eatman about a sting they could do in early 2009. Eatman drove page to case the neighborhood. They got lost and had to call Angelo for directions. On January 8, the day before the crime, all of them met at a home in Philadelphia. Angelo went through the details of how to get inside, where to go, where the safe was at.

[Mike Gibson]

He was really kind of like the ringleader.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, I get it. He wasn't there when the crime occurred, but it's hard for me not to say that he was the mastermind. Right. None of it happens without Angelo Shin.

[Mike Gibson]

It kind of reminds me a little bit of the case we did think just last week where the guy pointed at this duplex and said, the marijuana is in the house on the left. You know the door on the left.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, yeah. So he didn't participate in the crime, but he's the one that told the other people about it. He pointed it out. And so I think you can make the argument just like here, none of what ultimately occurs would have happened without the person who sets it up.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

On the day of the crime, Eatman was alone in one getaway car. 17 year old Sybil White testified that she was the second driver and drove the others in her mother's vehicle. She was paid $500 to drive and all she knew was what Joseph Page told her. He was going to get some money and he wanted me to drive. I get it. You may not be in on the full particulars of what's going to happen, but do you at least have to question why somebody is paying you $500 to drive them to get some money.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Unless you just know that they're not upstanding guys and they do bad stuff and you're going to make some money by driving them around and you kind

[Mike Ferguson]

of know whatever it is is going to be criminal, but you don't maybe exactly know what it is.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

She dropped them off near the home. She waited at a nearby convenience store, then started driving around. She picked them up when she got a cell phone notification to do so. During the drive home, the men discussed whether they took too long there and whether there were cameras in the house. On September 25, 2009, Angelo Shin pleaded guilty to third degree murder, robbery, burglary, and other counts. His attorney said at no point at all did he ever contemplate that any of his family members would have been hurt. And that probably is true. But here's the thing. If you're the mastermind of a crime where somebody dies, yeah, you're going to get charged. There's just no way around it.

[Mike Gibson]

As you should.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you should. I also thought it was interesting that these guys are talking about whether they had stayed there too long, but they're also discussing whether there were cameras in the house because obviously they weren't wearing masks. But I would have thought that that would have come up in the planning phase.

[Mike Gibson]

I would have thought Angelo would have said, hey, by the way, there is a few cameras. Let me, you know, draw them in here on the map. So you guys know, were to avoid going.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would have thought that. Sybil White also pleaded guilty to third degree murder and other charges that same day. On December 24, 2009, Robert Eatman was sentenced to 20 to 40 years in prison after pleading guilty to third degree murder, robbery and conspiracy. And that's interesting because on the episode that we have coming out on Thursday, we talk about a murder committed up in Canada and the person only got seven years.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, big difference.

[Mike Ferguson]

And they were let out on day parole in two years. You know, so we struggle with that a little bit. Part of that is because we're used to US sentences. 20 to 40 years in prison for what happened to me, I'm totally fine with. On January 12, 2010, the trial for Pitts, Page, and Latham began. In opening statements, prosecutor Todd Stevens told jurors that a mountain of evidence connected the three defendants to the home invasion, including cell phone records, DNA linking Paige and Latham to the crime scene, as well as Angelo Shin's confession. Page learned Robert Che's routine and the layout of his home from Angelo Shin. So there is some evidence. Right? I mean, it's not just the word of Angelo Shin, but I'm sure that that is a big part of it. You have the cell phone records, you have DNA, which is huge. Right. Linking at least two of the individuals to the crime scene.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think they thought they were just going to go in, do this, and get out quick with $100,000, and then quickly found out that that's not how it was going to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I believe they thought that maybe they didn't need the masks because they had no connection to the family. So they had no idea who they were. They had no idea they were working with Angelo Shin. So there was never going to be a connection. Or is my other theory, which is they were planning on killing them anyway, but everybody says that wasn't true, so.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but I think, you know, it could have been true. And they just got spooked when she fled the scene, and they knew it was just a matter of time before

[Mike Ferguson]

the cops got there and they had to get out quick. The three defense lawyers countered that prosecutors didn't believe the correct story. Robert Eatman, who was thought to be a getaway driver, was actually the violent intruder. The defense argued that early descriptions of a large attacker and a sketch of a suspect matched Eatman more closely than any of the three defendants.

[Mike Gibson]

Boy, if you knew you were going to be pulled into this, I mean, that's the way to go. Just to say I was the getaway

[Mike Ferguson]

driver when you were really, like, part of the. The violence that happened inside of the home. Yeah, yeah, but it's also a pretty good tactic for the defense. Right. They're trying to muddy the waters, and they're saying, hey, police, yeah, I know you were told this story, but this isn't what happened. Testimony showed that Joseph Page's DNA was found on the fingertip of a black latex glove. Amitati Latham's DNA was found on duct tape left behind at the crime scene. There was no DNA evidence linking car pits to the home invasion.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, really, if you think about it, these guys are kind of idiots, you know, using duct tape. What. What did. What you think was going to happen?

[Mike Ferguson]

No fingerprints on duct tape. I mean, it's like a duct tape magnet, right, with all that adhesive. Yeah, I think you're right. I don't think we're talking about, you know, criminal masterminds here. Janice Che testified that in the early morning darkness, it was difficult to see everything except for the man who accosted her while the others duct taped and beat Robert. She gestured towards Amitati Latham and said, he came right up to me and put a gun to my head. And I think if you're a juror, that's a pretty powerful statement.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You have the victim directly identifying her attacker.

[Mike Gibson]

In court, she just painted that image in your head.

[Mike Ferguson]

And let's not forget there's DNA that puts him at the scene. So I think that's a. That's a big one, too. Janice cried as she recounted the attack. She said Robert was dragged back into the garage seconds after opening the door to go to their car. The attacker who took her upstairs stayed behind her and hid his face while ordering her around. She testified that from what they were saying, they clearly knew what was in the house and where it was.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, we now know the reason behind that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Once again, civil White testified that she used her mother's car to drive the three defendants to Robert Che's neighborhood before dawn. They got out carrying duct tape and a gun and were wearing latex gloves. Okay, maybe you throw that in a bag. I'm just saying, I'm not. I'm not trying to tell you how you. How to do your job, but walking around, I get it. It's five o' clock in the morning, and there's probably not many people up at that time. I'm certainly not. But walking around with duct tape and a gun is a. Not a great look.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sybil was told via pay as you go phone when to pick them up. During the ride back, Pitts asked Paige, why'd you have to kill him? Paige responded that he had to do what he had to do. During the drive back, Latham used his phone to talk to a woman. And those phone calls were key evidence in the case.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, how upset are you if you're the other guy saying you really. You had to call your woman, you know, and that's being used against us, you couldn't wait until you got home later?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think there's this misconception, right, that these kind of burner phones or pay as you go phones are untraceable. The problem is, and we've seen it in a number of cases, the authorities have the ability to just look for any cell phone calls made in that area during a specific time.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And once they get those, then they start working them. They can figure. Figure it all out. That that's been used to crack a number of cases that geo fencing or. Yeah, we talked about it. I think in a Recent episode, FBI Special Agent William Shute showed jurors a map tracking the use of several cell phones from the Frankfurt neighborhood of Philadelphia to the area around the crime scene on the morning of January 9th. There was no record of a phone connected to Caray Pitts making the trip. However, cell phones linked to Page and Latham were used in the vicinity of Robert's home at the time of the home invasion. So there is one thing that's kind of standing out to me here. Page and Latham have quite a mountain of evidence against them, but the prosecution doesn't have near as much linking pits. No DNA, no fingerprints. They don't even have the cell phone data that they have for the other two. Robert Eatman testified that he would not have been the ringleader of the robbery because he. He weighed more than 400 pounds and used a cane to get around. Because he was shot eight times in 2007.

[Mike Gibson]

Eight times. That's a story right there.

[Mike Ferguson]

That. That's a lot of times to be shot. But, you know, also, I think if you weigh in excess of £400, it does make more sense for you to be a getaway driver as opposed to someone going inside the house in what will likely be kind of a scenario where the need for some agility may arise.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, if you're £400 and you're on a cane, are you really going to be going inside?

[Mike Ferguson]

I would think you'd be quite a liability. I would think so, too, in a situation like that. But again, let's not forget the defense is trying to paint him as the violent intruder.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Eatman named Joseph Page, Amitati Latham and Khari Pitts as the attacker, saying, my whole role was just to follow the car up there and watch their back. Joseph Page approached him about the robbery. He knew that there was a safe with a couple hundred thousand inside. Eatman went along to buy supplies for the raid and provided the duct tape used to restrain and suffocate Robert. Instead of going into the house, he drove around the neighborhood and communicated by cell phone. Afterwards, he met the attackers in Philadelphia. Eatman recalled that Latham and Page were bloody from head to toe from beating Robert. Yeah, I mean, a savage beating like that. Again, we talk about it a lot. When you beat someone to a pulp up close, when you shoot someone at close range, it's very hard not to get blood on you.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, this Eatman, he's kind of an interesting guy because he is definitely putting himself in this job. Right. If you want to call it that. This plan to rob the house. He's very involved in it. He's just saying, I did this and this and this. The one thing I didn't do is go inside the home. But he still played a role.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, he supplied a lot of

[Mike Ferguson]

the materials they used and was a getaway driver.

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[Mike Ferguson]

The defense sought to discredit Eeman by pointing out inconsistencies in his account and his record for theft and cocaine dealing. He admitted that he sold marijuana while on federal parole and took disability payments, saying, I hustled, man Mine testified about seeing her father's body. She said, I turned the light on and saw this pool of blood and my dad just laying there. She also said, I really thought in the basement that we were all going to die.

[Mike Gibson]

That's because I think that might have been the plan.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. And even if not, I could see how the victims would have thought that. And they're being bound. You have intruders inside the home. That thought has to go through your mind. We're all going to be killed. She saw two of the attackers and identified Amitati Latham in court. She earlier identified Robert Eatman from a photograph, but prosecutors said she had confused him with Joseph Page. And that's interesting, right, because the defense is trying to put Eatman inside the home.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

And here you have at least at one point, Minna identifying him from a photograph.

[Mike Gibson]

And the prosecution saying, no, no, no, no, no, you got the wrong guy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, maybe it was just a headshot and had it been full body, that would have been a different story. I don't know. Pathologist Paul Hoyer testified that Robert was beaten and cut with a knife while his head was taped. And that clotting blood from his broken nose sealed the small hole in the tape through which he had been breathing. He described it as a slow, painful death.

[Mike Gibson]

I bet you know you're not getting much air at all. And it's slowly, as minutes tick by, closing up, closing up until there's no way to get any air.

[Mike Ferguson]

It'd almost be like drowning. Yeah, or something, you know, along those lines. Joseph Page's friend, Rosemary Evans testified that he was sleeping on her couch while the robbery occurred. Her brother Alfonso Fralin also testified that Page was at their home the evening before, but he did not see him until late the following morning. A defense DNA expert testified that the DNA analysis linking Page to a glove fragment revealed a third unknown profile as well. Ahmatati Latham surprised the court with a confession towards the end of trial. He testified, I was present and seen everything that transpired inside the house. He said he and two others went into the home, pulled guns on Robert Shea and duct taped the family before robbing the safe and fleeing. But he said Page and Pitts weren't the other robbers. It was Robert Eatman and Eatman's friend, whom he only knew as, oh, a bearded, broad shouldered man. Latham said, I was pretty much following Osley. Okay, well, number one, he just all of a sudden, towards the end of it, decides to confess, but then he kind of turns everything on its head by saying, yeah, I was there, but Paige and Pitts weren't.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, talking about muddying the water.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was eat men and this other guy who has never been brought up before, named O as this his way

[Mike Gibson]

of trying to save his buddies.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know, it seems strange, doesn't it, because normally by this point at trial, it's everybody for themselves. You know, you're trying to save yourself. He's not really trying to save himself. That's, that's the strange part about it.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe he felt like he was going to go down regardless and he thought, well, I really don't like this guy and this other guy, but I like these guys.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'll give, I'll give them a fighting chance. Yeah, maybe. Pitts wasn't mentioned in Latham's account, and he claimed that he only saw Paige briefly when he went to a house for a planning meeting on January 8th. Page was walking out as he was going in. Latham testified that Angelo Shin told a guard at Robert Che's retail shop about the safe and the guard relayed that information to Eatman and Julius Wise, the other suspect who was still awaiting trial. While Wise was recovering from hip surgery and couldn't go along for the robbery. Latham had walked away from a halfway house on a drug sentence weeks before. And he wanted the money. He testified at the time, being a fugitive on the run, I didn't see what was wrong with it.

[Mike Gibson]

I believe him. He thought, I'm a bad guy, I'm on the run, I need some cash. This is an easy way to get it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they are. I'm already wanted, so what, am I now going to be more wanted? But he said things went wrong quickly. Eatman pistol whipped Robert, then hit him smack dead in the face. After O obsessively wrapped his head in tape, Latham testified, I never touched Mr. Che. Oh, and E did all that? And you use the phrase, Gibbs, muddy the waters. They are really muddy at this point.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, they are. But I'm guessing 400 pound man can do some damage to somebody's face.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I. I guess I don't. But here's the thing. And I don't want to focus so much on this guy's weight. But you're not gonna blend in.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

At £400, you are really going to stand out to, to anyone that is there at the home. Right. Victims, all of that. Now I get it. If you didn't see them that great, and maybe police are only showing you a mug shot. Okay, maybe you get that wrong. But it's at least in my thought. Would be kind of hard to misidentify one of the attackers who weighs 400 pounds.

[Mike Gibson]

And walking with a cane.

[Mike Ferguson]

And walks with a cane. The prosecutor pressed Latham about his call to Civil White for a getaway ride, which Latham said was placed before they realized that Janice had escaped. According to Latham, oh, was the one who said he had to do what he had to do, not Joseph Page, as Sybil White had testified. So again, man, he is really throwing everything towards Eatman and this guy, Mr. O. While also incriminating himself. But he's basically saying these other two guys, they weren't there. They didn't. They didn't have anything to do with it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but what type of credibility does he have?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I don't really know that any of them have a ton. On January 29, 2010, Joseph Page and Amitati Latham were convicted of second degree murder. Khari Pitts was acquitted of all charges. And that really doesn't surprise me. Right. We talked about it. They didn't have the same type of evidence against Pitts that they had against Page and Latha. Now you also have Latham basically saying Pitts wasn't there. I could understand how the jury would have a hard time convicting him.

[Mike Gibson]

It'd be a stretch.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it would be. ADA Todd Stevens said we had somewhat overwhelming scientific evidence against Page and Latham. My guess is that the jury wanted to see that against the third guy. And I think that's true in a lot of cases. Juries want that, you know, very compelling evidence. Well, you have it against these two, why don't you have it against the third guy? Maybe it's because he was there, but way more careful than the other guys. Or maybe he wasn't there. I don't know. Outside court, Richard Che said the verdict brought some closure, but they were more concerned with the fate of Angelo Shin. He said, we all know who the real bad person is. He's the person who started it. We believe that if it wasn't for him, everything would be normal.

[Mike Gibson]

I think he's absolutely correct.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, me too. Because like we said, right. He, meaning Angelo Shin, put everything in motion. None of this would have happened, I don't think, without him.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, he's the catalyst here.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's a great word.

[Mike Gibson]

I know you're surprised.

[Mike Ferguson]

Khari Pitt smiled as he was led away from court to await his formal release from jail. He said, I've been saying since day one, I'm innocent. On April 13, 2010, Joseph Page was sentenced to life in prison, plus 40 to 80 years for robbery and other counts. The consecutive sentence will make it impossible for a future governor to commute Page's life sentence.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, we know where he'll be.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, he's not going anywhere. The judge called the crime cold blooded, saying there can be no justification whatsoever for what occurred. This defendant is not capable, in my judgment, of rehabilitation. He should never see the light of day again. When asking for consecutive sentences, the prosecutor referred to Page's record showing he was previously accused of other violent crimes in Philadelphia, including murder and assault charges, all of which were either withdrawn or dismissed. Page insisted he was wrongfully convicted and was never at the robbery. He told the judge, at the end of the day, I was railroaded through the whole trial. Everything was fixed.

[Mike Gibson]

Joe should have said, well, I had to do what I had to do.

[Mike Ferguson]

That would have been poetic. But again, like I said, right.

[Shopify User]

They.

[Mike Ferguson]

They had a lot more evidence against Paige and Latham. DNA, cell phone records. Latham was sentenced to life in prison on April 27, plus consecutive sentences totaling 32 to 64 years for conspiracy and robbery.

[Mike Gibson]

Some healthy numbers there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, again, we know where he's going to be. He's not getting out.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Julius Wise's trial started on June 7, 2010. The ADA argued that wise was part of the planning, some of which occurred at his home in Philadelphia. A gun that was used also came from his home. Wise was portrayed as a strategist of the attack, despite never going to the house because of his hip surgery. Wise previously testified in January 2010 that he had no role in planning or carrying out the robbery, but did admit to discarding evidence and keeping some of the robbery proceeds. Why are you getting some of the proceeds if you weren't involved in it at all?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, you getting paid that you're getting those proceeds because you got rid of some evidence?

[Mike Ferguson]

Sounds a little fishy. Prosecutors alleged that Wise provided his cell phone to car a Pitts for use during the home invasion. Pitts was not at an afternoon planning meeting on January 8, 2009. But Wise previously testified that Pitt showed up at his home later that night and took his phone, which he intended to use to communicate with the other robbers. Wise previously testified that Pitts, carrying a duffel bag of loot from the robbery, returned to his home about 6am on January 9 and told him the other conspirators wanted him to dispose of the items he kept watches, purses, a jewelry box and $1,500 in cash before dumping the bag in a wooded area. Wise's attorney argued the accusations were overblown and that he would testify that he had a minimal role. On June 8, 2010, one day after his trial began, Julius Wise pleaded guilty to third degree murder, avoiding a more serious second degree murder conviction and a potential life sentence. Before trial, he had rejected a plea deal for third degree murder. He had no explanation, but his attorney said that Wise seemed at peace with his decision. On August 10, he was sentenced to 16 to 32 years in prison. He told the court that he felt left out when he couldn't go to Robert Che's home, but he believed he could have prevented the murder if he had been there. He played a small role in the crime and asked the judge to have mercy on him.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like he might have got less if he would have went with a third degree.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I just wonder if this guy looked at, you know, some of the other outcomes and was like, oh, life plus consecutive years. I don't want to roll the dice on that.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, yeah. I want at least have some time outside prison eventually.

[Mike Ferguson]

On October 1, 2010, Robert Eatman was sentenced to 24 and a half years in prison plus four and a half to nine years for a robbery charge. Eatman told the judge he was sorry he and made a stupid mistake and was horrified at the result of the crime. Prosecutors said he participated in planning and cover up and he loaned his cell phone to the other defendants and allowed one of them to take a gun from his home. On October 12, 2010, Angelo Shin was sentenced to 20 to 40 years in prison. On November 5, Sybil White was sentenced to four to eight years in prison and 20 years of probation, marking the end of the legal proceedings.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, so you think Angelo got off okay, light, or do you think Angelo should have got more?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, 20 to 40 years is no joke. No, let's be honest about that. But I, again, I think he was also the mastermind, the catalyst. Nothing happens without him. But he also wasn't there. So I don't know how that all works out in the grand scheme of things. It does make some sense to me that the people who actually killed Robert Che are going to get the most right, and maybe 20 to 40 is the right amount. I don't know. The family's probably going to say no, he should have got life, too, right? Because they felt extremely betrayed by him and they're right to feel that way.

[Mike Gibson]

But like you said, 20 to 40 maybe ends up leaning more towards the 40, who knows? But that's a long time away. It is. He'll be a old, old man.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I. I think, you know, whether he does 20, 30, 40, you would have to say, okay, at the end of it, whatever it turns out to be, he paid for his crime. Losing 20 or 30 years of your life or 40 years of your life, that's really hard to imagine for anybody, I think. I can't imagine it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't know what type of life he would have after spending 40 years in prison. Coming out, what's that going to look like?

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, he's going to be a felon. He's going to have all the difficulties of that felons have once they get out of prison. So his life's not going to be easy even after he gets out. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, Robert Che was known for being a very kind, hardworking person. When his nephew first came to the us, Robert opened his door to Angelo and allowed him to stay for a year. Angelo Shin betrayed his family's trust and set the stage for a violent robbery that ended in his uncle's death. All because he wanted to impress his friends and was what many papers describe as a gangster wannabe. And as one prosecutor put it, it's just, again, hard to imagine. I'm sure he never thought that this was going to end up with somebody being killed.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but how do you do that to your family, you know, I mean, here's somebody, Robert and his wife that worked hard for their money. And you think, okay, I want to get in with this crowd. I want to be cool like these gangsters. So I'll tell them about how my uncle holds this amount of money in his safe and they'll elevate me up in to this circle of people.

[Mike Ferguson]

But even if you don't believe that someone's going to get hurt and how do you take that chance? Because you never know when you're sending four or five, however many people are going, right. Known criminals, what's going to happen. You're really taking a chance with your loved ones lives.

[Mike Gibson]

You really are. And he did.

[Mike Ferguson]

He did. And he's paying the price for it. But that's it for our episode on Robert Che. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Monica Benford]

Hey, this is Monica Benford in Buffalo, New York calling to correct Gibby on the Liddy Adami episode. When he said sir mix a lot started, the baby got back. It was actually, it was sir mix a lot, not Tom Loke. He said sir. He said oh loke that. It's actually sir mix a lot. So I had to call and correct Giddy. Love you guys, team. Both of you guys have a great day.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, man, did I mess up?

[Mike Ferguson]

Did I do that?

[Shopify User]

Did I do that?

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, not Gibby being wrong. No. Thanks, Monica, for the voicemail. I actually also got a lot of emails.

[Mike Gibson]

Did you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I didn't tell you about them because I know how much it hurts your ego.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Huh.

[Mike Ferguson]

You hate to be wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

I do. But you were slightly.

[Mike Ferguson]

And Monica pointed it out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes, Monica did. In Buffalo, New York.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Shopify User]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Start your free [e-mail].