Susan Monica

Summary

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True Crime All The Time – Episode 516: "Susan Monica"

Hosts: Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson ("Gibby")
Air Date: July 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mike Ferguson and Gibby delve into the chilling case of Susan Monica, a reclusive ranch owner from Oregon whose crimes were uncovered in 2014. The hosts explore Monica’s background, the mysterious disappearances of two handymen, and the grisly fates that befell them on her property. The case stands out for its rural setting, disturbing details involving pigs, Monica’s unusual justifications for her actions, and lingering suspicions about additional unconfirmed victims. As always, the hosts balance their signature dark humor with a thorough, respectful exploration of the facts.

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Case Background and Susan Monica’s Life

• Early Life and Transition:

  • Born Stephen Buchanan in California in 1948, Monica served in the Navy before transitioning to live as a woman.
  • After an honorable discharge, she became a successful engineer working on submarines in San Francisco – a job requiring great skill and intelligence.

    "Kind of cool to work on submarines, though... I feel like you have to be really smart." (Mike Ferguson, 05:12)

  • Dreamed of a rural life and in 1991 purchased a 20-acre ranch near Wimer, Oregon, raising pigs and chickens and starting a wrought iron fence business.

• Living Off the Grid:

  • Monica embraced an isolated lifestyle, even living at first in a shack without electricity.
  • Occasionally hired drifters and handymen for ranch help.

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The Missing Handyman: Robert Haney

• Life and Characteristics:

  • Robert Haney, born 1957, was a quiet, hardworking tradesman, described as a loner who loved his dog.
  • After divorce and a nomadic period, he answered Susan Monica’s ad for a handyman who could live on her property (2013).

    "He enjoyed the peaceful, quiet environment out on the ranch... For him, kind of a dream scenario." (Mike Ferguson, 12:06–13:10)

• Disappearance:

  • Last seen around September 2013. Family grew worried by December after no communication.
  • Haney’s children visited the ranch; Susan claimed Robert quit and left, but his dog, trailer, and tools remained — raising suspicions.

    "Robert always took care of his tools... It wasn't like him to leave them just laying around." (Mike Ferguson, 14:13–14:50)

  • Missing persons report filed, but case hampered by Haney’s cash-only lifestyle and months-long delay in reporting.

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Police Investigation and First Discovery

• Initial Interview:

  • Monica appeared helpful and courteous, giving a plausible story (Robert left with another man in a white sedan), but with no details for police to verify.

• The EBT Card Breakthrough:

  • Investigators checked Haney’s EBT card – it had been used after his supposed departure.
  • Walmart surveillance video revealed Monica using the card, contradicting her account.

    "Authorities went out, they asked for the security footage... It showed Susan using Robert's card." (Mike Ferguson, 24:40–25:04)

• Second Search and Shocking Evidence (26:01–29:51):

  • Police returned with a search warrant, found Monica nervous.
  • The property was filthy and full of debris. An officer spotted what appeared to be a severed human leg in a catchment pond.

    "It was a human leg that was severed mid femur. And that just seems like extremely painful." (Mike Ferguson, 27:19–28:04)

  • Monica was asked to come to the station before being informed about the discovery.

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The Grisly Confession

• Monica’s First Story (29:53+):

  • Claimed that she discovered Haney being eaten alive by pigs; moved by compassion (as for animals), she shot him to put him out of his misery.

    "I do that for my animals. And this was the first time I did it for a human being… If it had been one of my pigs suffering out there, I would have done the same thing." (Susan Monica interview, recounted by Mike Ferguson, 29:53–30:54)

  • She left his remains in the pig pen, cleaned up after several days, and later scattered parts due to animals pulling at refuse bags.

• Motivation for Concealment:

  • Stated fear authorities would euthanize her pigs if they knew they’d eaten a human.

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The Second Victim: Steven Delacino

• New Revelation (35:22–38:57):
  • Confronted with more searches, Monica drew a map and indicated another body: Steven Delacino, a prior handyman missing since 2012.
  • Her new story: Claims a gun went off during a struggle, wounding Delacino in the back of the head; she fled, and then shot him again; pigs subsequently consumed his body.

    "She shot him in the head again, and he died in the barn... The pigs had gotten to Steve and were beginning to eat his body." (Mike Ferguson, 37:20–38:23)

  • The hosts mock the implausibility and consistency of her explanations.

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Chilling Admission and Search for More Victims

• Possible Serial Murders (40:29–...):

  • Monica allegedly told Detective Henderson, "If I told you about the 17 others, I would spend the rest of my life in jail." (40:29–40:56)

    "You found the two or 17 more?" (Gibby, 40:57)

  • Despite a massive dig (over 130 holes, including one as big as an Olympic pool), no additional human remains were confirmed.
  • The property hid piles of personal belongings and shoes, hinting at possible further crimes.

    "What does that mean? Is that all Robert and Steven's stuff? Or is this where she put the belongings of a bunch of other people she killed?" (Mike Ferguson, 43:04–43:41)

• Animal Remains and Ranch Conditions:

  • Over 400 animal bones recovered; no more human bones.

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Forensic and Legal Developments

• Forensic Evidence:

  • Both men died from gunshot wounds to the head. Animal gnaw marks supported Monica’s story in part, but her explanations strained credibility (45:38+).
  • The thigh bone from Haney’s leg was axed and gnawed—suggesting Monica herself dismembered him.

• Trial and Behavior in Court (50:58–58:15):

  • Monica claimed mental health struggles; tried to fire her lawyers.
  • Her defense relied on her stories of mercy and self-defense, but she contradicted herself repeatedly.
  • She disrupted court proceedings, even jesting about feeding a detective to her pigs.

    "She jokingly threatened to kill and feed to her pigs." (Mike Ferguson, 54:16)

  • Confession video:

    "I do not value human life very much. My feeling is the only thing wrong with the planet is there's people on it." (Susan Monica, trial video, 51:54)

  • An ex-cellmate testified Monica admitted to shooting Haney and later sent a card identifying herself as “the sweetest murderer in Jackson County.” (55:53)

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Sentencing and Aftermath

• Conviction:

  • In April 2015, Monica was convicted on all counts and sentenced to a minimum of 50 years.

    "You shot two people and fed them to your pigs. I don't know how else you or I can put it. You valued pigs more than you value people. It may sound harsh, but you are a cold blooded killer." (Judge, sentencing, quoted by Mike Ferguson, 59:00)

• Aftermath & Lingering Questions:

  • Despite Monica’s implication of up to 17 additional victims, none were found on her land.
  • Detectives believe her admission may have truth, given patterns and other circumstantial evidence.
  • Notably, Monica requested donations for her pigs (to be slaughtered for meat for charity), a request denied due to both USDA regulations and the disturbing circumstances.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Bizarre Justifications:

  "I knew it was wrong, but if it had been one of my pigs suffering, I would have done the same thing." (Susan Monica to police, 29:53–30:54)

• On Valuing Animal Life:

  "During your interview, Susan said she valued animal life more than human life, and I think that's very apparent." (Mike Ferguson, 40:22–40:28) "I do not value human life very much. My feeling is the only thing wrong with the planet is there's people on it." (Susan Monica, 51:54)

• On the Implausibility of Her Stories:

  "These stories are always fascinating... There are things that could be true, but are they more likely to be true or false? This one doesn't have a great likelihood to me that it rings true." (Mike Ferguson, 37:47–38:23)

• On Courtroom Antics:

  "When you're on trial for killing two men and feeding them to your pigs, maybe you shouldn't joke to the detective on the stand that you're going to kill him and feed him to the pigs." (Mike Ferguson, 54:52–55:02)

• On Case’s Enduring Mystery:

  "My take on what she told me about the possibilities of 17 other people being there was that it was true. I believe 100% that there are more people out there." (Det. Eric Henderson, as quoted by Mike Ferguson, 60:13–60:42)

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Key Timestamps

• [04:13] – Main episode starts: Susan Monica background
• [13:10–15:25] – Robert Haney’s life and disappearance
• [24:26–25:04] – EBT card break and Walmart footage
• [27:13–28:46] – Discovery of human leg on Monica’s property
• [29:53–30:54] – Monica’s confession, “putting Robert out of his misery”
• [35:22–38:57] – Revelation of Steven Delacino as second victim
• [40:29–41:02] – Monica’s “17 others” admission to detective
• [43:04–43:57] – Dig and discovery of animal bones
• [45:38–47:46] – Forensic evidence and aftermath for Monica's pigs
• [50:58–58:15] – Trial, Monica’s conduct, and confession video
• [59:00] – Sentencing and judge’s remarks
• [60:13–61:45] – Detective’s belief in possible additional victims
• [63:23–63:39] – Recap: “She killed two people and fed them to her pigs… and maybe a lot more.”

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Engaging Moments & Signature Banter

• Riffing on "Pass the Mustard" vs. "Muster":

  "Is that the saying, passes mustard with a D? Because how does that. How do you pass mustard?... I always thought it was muster." (33:06–33:22)

• On Pig Stereotypes:

  "Are a lot of pigs man eaters? I was not aware of this... I knew they do it in movies." (39:42–39:53)

• On Rural Property:

  "I mean, if you don't have three or four cars that don't run, then you ain't got a rural property." (21:27–22:09)

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Takeaways

• Monica’s Justifications: Her stories, blending notions of animal mercy and self-defense, frequently contradicted themselves and the forensic evidence.
• Atmosphere of the Ranch: Described as filthy, isolated, and teeming with neglect — contributing to the covering up of crimes.
• Possible Serial Activity: Detectives and hosts both suspect the count of Monica's victims may exceed the two confirmed murders.
• Value of Human Life: Monica herself admitted to the police and jury her heightened respect for animals over people — an attitude echoed throughout her confessions and actions.
• Bizarre and Macabre Details: Pigs were used not only in covering up the crimes but as central elements in Monica’s motivations and post-hoc explanations.
• Final Sentiment:

  "She killed two people and fed them to her pigs... And there's a good chance she fed a lot of other people, maybe animals, other things to her pigs as well. It's a strange and pretty disgusting story." (Mike Ferguson, 63:23–63:39)

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For New Listeners

This episode provides a riveting and disturbing look into the Susan Monica case, balancing forensic detail, psychological insights, and the hosts’ trademark dry banter. The case remains haunting partly due to Monica’s confessions, the possibility of more victims, and the unsettling role her pigs played in the crimes.

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Transcript

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Ferguson]

Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 516 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Hey, I'm doing okay, man. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

He doing just okay.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Just okay?

[Mike Ferguson]

I know you got a little troubles going on.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Me too. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

With a kidney stone the size of Texas.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I know it's big.

[Mike Ferguson]

Trying to make its way out of your body. It's invaded your body.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's not going to make its way out.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. They're going to have to break it up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

They are.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's like Armageddon. They got to send a team in there to drill through it and then they put an explosive down in it to blow it up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

They're going to shrink them down like honey, I shrunk the kids.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

All right, we got to go into Gibby's. You know what?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Part.

[Mike Ferguson]

Exactly.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Take care of this thing.

[Listener/Caller]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Exactly. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Laurel.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Hey, Laurel. Julie P. What's going on, Julie?

[Mike Ferguson]

Denise Walker.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Hey, thanks, Denise.

[Mike Ferguson]

Roscoe, the rescue.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Aw, I love some rescue.

[Mike Ferguson]

Paul Parmley.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Hey, Parmley.

[Mike Ferguson]

Josian gc.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

What up, gc?

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Whitney Lindsley.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, thanks, Whitney.

[Mike Ferguson]

And if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Don Black.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Thanks, Don.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Appreciate all the new support and the continued support. So we have a brand new episode out right now on Unsolved where we're talking about 10 year old Adrianna Jackson. She disappeared while walking to school and then months later, her remains were found in a vacant lot. Her cause of death is listed as undetermined, but investigators are treating it as a homicide. And then on Thursday's TCAT, we're discussing the 2006 death of 29 year old Bernadette Vandermeer. She fell to her death at the top of Angel's Landing in Zion National Park. Now, her death was ruled an accident at the time, but nearly 20 years later, her husband David came back in focus for very good reason.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Very good reasons.

[Mike Ferguson]

Hi, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the Time?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I am.

[Mike Ferguson]

We're talking about Susan Monica. Susan Monica came onto police radar in January 2014 when authorities were notified that her handyman Haney had been missing for over three months. When authorities searched her ranch in rural Oregon, they discovered Robert's remains on the property. Susan revealed the horrific truth about how he died and shared what other secrets were hidden on the ranch. Other secrets Susan Monica was born Stephen Buchanan in California in 1948. Susan served in the Navy during the Vietnam War. After receiving an honorable discharge, she began living as a woman. Susan was a successful engineer and worked on submarines in the San Francisco area. But she dreamed of a quiet life away from the city. She wanted to have a farm and raise livestock.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Kind of cool to work on submarines, though.

[Mike Ferguson]

I would think so. I feel like you have to be really smart to do so. Or, you know, very well trained.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

There's a lot of risk there if you mess up. I mean, it is underwater.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Intense pressure.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's a couple of things where there's very little room for error. Submarines would be one. Anything that flies into space would be another. I would think there's just no tolerance for error.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And if you're my kidney doctor tomorrow, that as well.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's no room for error.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

But I do think there's a lot of people, let's say, working in a big city, who have good jobs, demanding jobs, who maybe long to get out in the country somewhere with maybe some land. And I think that's what happened with Susan.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

There's something to be said about getting out into the country, getting that fresh air or that manure smelling air, which

[Mike Ferguson]

is where you live.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

In 1991, Susan purchased a 20 acre ranch in Weimer, Oregon, where she owned a herd of pigs and raised chickens. She also started her own company making custom wrought iron fences and gates.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's cool.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, she was an engineer, so, you know, probably not a stretch for her to go into something like that. When Susan first bought her property, it was undeveloped woodland. There was a time when she lived in a shack with no electricity.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That would be roughing it.

[Mike Ferguson]

It would. And you know, I do want to have some land someday. That is kind of a dream of mine. You know, right now I live in a suburb. There's houses everywhere. I would love to have some acres where there's nobody right next to me.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Then you would come out of the basement.

[Mike Ferguson]

Probably not, but it would still be awesome.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

No, I'd still be down below.

[Mike Ferguson]

I might come out more. But you know, what I don't want to do is live like the Unabomber for a number of years while the house is being built or whatever. I'm saving up money to build it. I don't want to do that. Have you ever seen how the Unabomber actually lived once they got into his cabin?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, pretty rough.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was not good. Not good.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I've seen people with that doing the van life. Living better than that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, he had no running water. He looked like, you know, he was just dirty from head to toe.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not to mention the fact that he was constantly trying to figure out ways to kill people.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And he was educated, though.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, he was extreme. He was a genius.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, we joke about you being a genius. He was a certified genius.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, you gotta say that. Who you think certified him?

[Mike Ferguson]

Probably Mensa.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I was on that board that did that.

[Mike Ferguson]

And probably like him, you were also involved in some of that MK Ultra stuff. It's part of the reason why you turned out the way you did.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

In her spare time, Susan made improvements to the property. She started off by building a large barn and then began working on a house. She was mostly isolated unless she needed to go into town for something. She occasionally hired people to work on the ranch. In 2013, Susan decided to hire a handyman to build the house. She posted ads in local stores and even posted on Craigslist. 56 year old Robert Haney, a handyman and carpenter, responded to that Craigslist ad. Robert Haney was born on June 26, 1957 and it was said Gibbs, that he did not have an easy life. According to his former sister in law, Debbie Almeida Pendry, Robert didn't get many dates and he wasn't very popular in school. He didn't have a large friend group and he was a very quiet person. Pretty much a isolist or isolationist. I don't think isolist is a word, but we'll go with it since you are in Mensa. Allegedly. But Robert never finished high school. Instead, he and his brother Don left home together and they began working. Robert began working in plumbing and construction and learned how to build houses and yeah, let's face it, you can make a boatload of money in plumbing.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You can.

[Mike Ferguson]

I had some people I went to high school with who, you know, went into that trade. They ended up making really good money.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, the trades, you get in the right trades, you can make some really good money.

[Mike Ferguson]

Robert eventually met a woman named Thalia Larson at a party. They got married in the early 1980s and had five children together. Robert worked six days a week to provide for his family. He and his wife argued often because of this. Robert's son, Jesse Haney said that Robert worked to drown out his feelings. Okay, that's, that's interesting.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It is, but I think a lot of people, I say a lot of people, I think there's people that do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That I agree. Choose to work, then go home and deal with the situation they need to deal with.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, especially if they, they think their situation at home's not good.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right, right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You can have people who drink. You can also have people who just work a ton.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because they don't want to go home.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. I better run this TPS report again because I think there's some. It could look better. Honey, I'll be late. I have to run the TPS report again for Bob.

[Mike Ferguson]

Robert got divorced in 2003. He and his kids moved to Medford, Oregon for a change of pace. Jesse, who was 10 at the time, recalled that it was a fresh start for Robert. In 2012, after the last of his children moved out, Robert decided to downsize. He bought a dog and a camper.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's really downsizing. It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

But you know, I think there's an old saying, all you need is a good dog.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

A dog is A big plus.

[Mike Ferguson]

And a camper. I don't know if that is the saying dog is, but I don't know if it is. Then he found the ad on Craigslist for a handyman job where he could live on a remote ranch. So when you break it down, you know this Craigslist ad, All right, it might not be for everyone, but it sounds like it was hitting Robert at like, the most perfect time. You know, he sold his house, he bought a camper. Now he's found a job where he could probably take his camper out there and just live.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's like the perfect for a nomad life.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. According to Robert's son, Jesse, my dad and Susan Monica had a deal. My dad would get park cash and be able to stay on the property. My dad agreed to build a house from the bottom up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's a good deal for both parties,

[Mike Ferguson]

but depending on how much cash he's getting, I'm hoping it's a good deal of cash, but who knows? So Robert moved onto the property in 2013. When he spoke to his family in the summer, he seemed happy. He enjoyed the peaceful, quiet environment out on the ranch. I don't know why he wouldn't. It sounds like at least for him, not for everybody, but for him, kind of a dream scenario. He'd already bought this camper, Gibbs. What was he going to do with the camper? Yeah, travel around, maybe pay to live on it somewhere. Well, now he has a place that he doesn't have to pay for. And on top of that, he's getting paid to, you know, build this woman's house.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's a win win for him, I think.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. He's got his dog. What else do you need? He obviously didn't have a good marriage. Right. We didn't dive into it too much, but, you know, if you're working to stay away from the house, well, your marriage is not good.

[Ryan Reynolds]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, whose fault that was, we don't know. But even his son said he was a lot happier afterwards. Yeah, but By December of 2013, Robert's family was growing concern because they hadn't heard from him for a few months. On January 1, 2014, Robert's children met in Medford to talk about their dad. And they decided to drive out to the Rants to check on him. That makes sense, right? I'm assuming he's having somewhat regular conversations with at least some of his children, if not all of them. And now all of a sudden, there's no communication. So they're worried. Well, we Better go check on dad.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, something's up.

[Mike Ferguson]

They talked to Susan, who said she hadn't seen Robert since September when he quit and left the property. She asked them to collect his belongings. When the kids got to Robert's trailer, they knew something was off. Robert left behind his favorite leather jacket. His dog was just roaming the property, and his tools were left behind. Robert always took care of his tools because he needed them for work. It wasn't like him to leave them just laying around right as the kids found them. Jesse recalled that the scene at the trailer made the hairs on the back of his neck stand up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And I get it, you know, those are your dad's tools of his trade. He's just not going to let them rot on the ground like that. He's going to keep them clean, keep them collected in an area that he can grab them when he's ready to go to work the next day.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, the whole scene, to me seems just extremely odd. First of all, you're going to quit and leave, but you're not taking your trailer, you're not taking your dog, and you're not taking any of your stuff, including your tools, which is how you make your living. I mean, what part of that sounds believable?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

None of it.

[Mike Ferguson]

None of it.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Unless you hit the lotto. And I still don't think you'd leave your dog behind.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you'd at least take your dog.

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[Mike Ferguson]

Unless you didn't like your dog. But there was no indication of that. The kids were also surprised to hear Robert would want to leave because they thought he was happy on the ranch. And this is the. You know, the thing about when you have someone who goes missing that does have regular communication with their family. Well, you find out a lot about their state of mind, what they were going through in that period of time before they vanish. You know, we've covered many cases where victims don't talk to their family or really talk to anybody. And so when they do go missing, oftentimes it's quite a while before anyone notices because they don't talk to the person, and they just don't know much about what their life was like. But that's not the same here with Robert.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

So you would have to believe that he's telling his kids how great it is there, and then all of a sudden decides that he wants to up and leave and leave everything behind.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Which makes no sense. No.

[Mike Ferguson]

And you can see why the kids don't believe it does, either. They filed a missing persons report that same day from the beginning. It was a challenging investigation, especially because Robert had been unaccounted for for a few months. And that's what happens when you know someone is not reported missing early on. There's a good reason for it here. I don't think anybody knew he was missing, but it does make the investigation tougher.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Always does.

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[Mike Ferguson]

e n It was difficult to track Robert's movements because he only used cash and the kids didn't even know if he had a bank account. However, they knew Robert had an EBT card. And I get it right, some people use cash. I think it's less and less nowadays than it was. You know, you think about like the 80s. A lot of people use cash in the 80s.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, big time.

[Mike Ferguson]

You always needed cash on you. Now I can go months without ever hitting atm.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

A lot of places prefer that you don't use cash.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, now they're getting rid of like the penny.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

So I'm surprised they didn't get rid of the nickel at the same time, that's probably next.

[Mike Ferguson]

But then you have this EBT card, and if that's not being used to me, that would throw up some red flags.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because that means you're getting government assistance, whether it's SNAP or whatever it is. Who doesn't want to use that money? It's like free money.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, technically.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You buy food with it and stuff. The kids also noted that ever since they moved out, Robert had been living a nomadic lifestyle. They would sometimes go a month or two without talking to him. I think that's another problem for investigators. You know, when you talk about someone who's got a very specific pattern, they do the same thing every day, and then all of a sudden, they go missing. Well, that's a big deal. But if someone lives a very nomadic lifestyle and all of a sudden nobody can find them, is it as big a deal? Because they pretty much do it quite a bit.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Maybe this time they decided to take off for a few months to go out west or up north or down south or whatever.

[Mike Ferguson]

Any other directions you want to talk about?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Over there east.

[Mike Ferguson]

Over there east. Well, he was in Oregon. I don't know how much farther north he can go.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, you can go more north.

[Mike Ferguson]

He can go to Canada.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

He can go more north than he can west.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, well, that's true. When asked about Robert's behavior around the time of his disappearance, his kids noted Robert was deeply affected by a recent traumatic event in their family. According to Jesse, someone in the family was assaulted. According to Sean Lemanis, a former employee of Susan's, Robert was distraught and angry and wanted to seek revenge. The stress of the situation led him to drink more. Lamanis recalled that Robert would sometimes shout to himself, why, God? Why? According to Susan's former neighbor, Karen Denman, Robert was likable when he wasn't drunk, but when he was drunk, he was hard to deal with.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, man, We've had that conversation before. And some of these people, they're just nasty drunks.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yep. Both about the podcast and just about our own personal lives.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And people we know. Detectives drove out to Susan's ranch to ask her questions. Right away, they noticed how the property was cluttered with vehicles, debris, and makeshift structures. Susan was cordial and seemed like she wanted to help with the investigation. That seems like every rural property here in Ohio. I mean, if you don't have three or four cars that don't run, then you ain't got a rural property.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Now you're making rural. How look bad, man. But there is some that do have the. Multiple vehicles got the, the. The couch on the porch. Not even on the porch. They, like, dragged it near the porch.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe it's out in the front

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

yard, front yard somehow.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, I just always think if you have more cars that don't run, than do run. That seems like, like an issue now. Maybe you fix them up or something. That would be different.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Maybe you're parting it out over a long period of time.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe. Susan told detective Eric Henderson that Robert had lived and worked on the farm for about six months. But things took a turn in the fall. Robert got a call from a family member who was assaulted, and he was upset. He began drinking heavily and behaving erratically. She decided to confront Robert about his drinking on September 9, 2013. But Robert approached her first. He handed her some money and asked her to take care of his dog because he was going away for a while. She assumed he would return. Eventually, he got into a white sedan driven by another man.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, now we know what she says happened.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think if you're investigators, right, you go out to talk to Susan. It said that she was cordial. She gives this story. I mean, do you believe it? Do you not believe it? What do you have that would contradict her story at this point in time? And I don't know that you would really have a lot that does seem weird that he just gets into a white car driven by some guy and he never comes back. Detectives returned to the station and attempted to track down Robert, but they didn't have a make or model for the vehicle, so they couldn't even put out a bolo. The only lead they had was Robert's EBT card. On January 9, 2014, investigators contacted the state agency to see when and where the card was last used. The last activity was in December 2013, after Susan claimed Robert disappeared. The card was used at a Walmart and in Grants pass, Oregon, about 20 to 30 minutes from the ranch.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, you used to be a Walmarter.

[Mike Ferguson]

I did. I worked at Walmart for a number of years. Worked my way up from pushing carts to being assistant manager to the assistant manager, assistant to the assistant manager.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I'm sure they had cameras, though.

[Mike Ferguson]

They did have cameras. And this Walmart had cameras. I mean, obviously it was, you know, what, 2013ish timeframe. And authorities went out, they asked for the security footage, and the store still had it. And what it showed when they reviewed it was Susan using Robert's cart.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, how interesting is that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I just got done saying. Right. How do you not believe her story? You don't really have any information to dispute it. Well, now you do.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Sure you do.

[Mike Ferguson]

On January 10, 2014, officers arrived at the ranch to arrest Susan for identity theft and to execute a search warrant on her property. This time, Susan seemed nervous to talk to Detective Eric Henderson. She claimed she had permission from Robert to use the card because she needed to feed the dog. She stopped using the card because it was expired and had no money left on it. Now, I know that these cards, I think, differ from state to state. I know in some states you cannot use these types of government assistance to get pet food. Maybe some you can.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

They're definitely limited to certain things.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, but maybe in Oregon that that's not the same way. While she talked to Henderson, other officers began searching the property. The search team was taken aback by the filthy conditions of the ranch, which included piles of garbage, rotting food, and industrial waste.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Who lives like that?

[Mike Ferguson]

Apparently this woman, Susan. Monica. But isn't it interesting? The first time they talked to her, she's cordial, she's calm, she's collected. Now they come out with some proof that she was doing something she shouldn't have been doing. Now, she says she had permission, but she's very nervous this time around. Well, why is she nervous? Because she's worried that she's about ready to be caught. Yeah, the first time she wasn't nervous because they didn't have anything on her. As they continued searching, officers took videos of the property. One officer came to a catchment pond type of area and saw what he thought was a leg. Okay, that's going to change the tenor of the search real quick.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, you see a leg bobbing up and down right there, you're like, I better call the guys over here.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, let's get everybody over here. And the officer turned out to be right. It was a human leg that was severed mid femur. And that just seems like extremely painful. Now, I know most of these types of things happen post mortem, but my family and I were watching the last Saw movie the other night because my daughters and I, we like scary movies. My wife hates the Saw movies, hates them because they're so graphic. But in this one, you know, as always, he's making them do things to themselves, essentially. And my thought in all those movies is no way you get through hardly any of that before you pass out.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because there was one part where a lady saw her own leg off.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

There is no way you're sawing your Leg off without passing out.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Because all. It's all under a time, right? You have to get done by a certain time. Sure, yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Another detective approached Detective Henderson and whispered in his ear that a leg had been found. Henderson didn't want Susan to know what they had found yet, so he asked her to come to the station for an interview. I don't even know how he stayed so kind of calm and collected at that point, but obviously he did, and it was a good thing. Right. You don't want to let on to her that you just found a leg in her pond.

[Listener/Caller]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

You don't want to give her any time to come up with a story.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

When I hit her with a surprise.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. At the station, Susan was asked if anyone had ever died on her property. She said no, and then she was confronted with the finding of the leg. And this is always fascinating to me. It's why I love to watch interrogation videos. You know, when you see the police kind of setting people up. And I don't mean setting them up as in planting evidence or anything like that. Setting them up in these conversations where they already know some very damning facts. But they're not throwing those facts out there. What they're doing is asking questions which cause people to paint themselves into a corner, and then they confront them with the facts, and it's like, oh, you just said, you know this, and now we have evidence to contradict that. That's when they usually pivot. They change their story, they come up with something else. But to me, that stuff is always

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

fascinating when the check. Checkmate comes into play.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Susan then told a disturbing story to detectives. She claimed that about a month after Robert went missing, she found her pigs in a feeding frenzy. She looked at what they were eating and realized it was Robert. Susan said in her interview, I saw that, you know, he was laying there with his guts all over the place, but he was being eaten. What I believed to be alive. I thought that I saw his arm move, and I did hear a little moaning. When I was unable to get the pigs to move, I went up to my house, I got my gun and shot him. I put him out of his misery. I do that, you know, I do that for my animals. And this was the first time I did it for a human being. You know, I knew it was wrong, but if it had been one of my pigs suffering out there, I would have done the same thing. Okay, we got a real silence of the lambs, pigs eating humans situation going on here.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. Feeling that vibe. Also feels like A little bit of. Was it Robert Pick? Pickman picked him. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, that was a gruesome one.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Man, oh, man, I'm glad I was never invited to any of those barbecues.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot. People ate some of. Some of that. But, you know, here's the thing that. And you do see it sometimes where someone says, I put someone out of their misery. And they always equate it to an animal.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. If you hit a deer and the deer was dying, if someone had a gun, let's say they were a hunter or something like that, would they put the deer out of its misery? Yeah, they probably would. You think of it with animals, or at least a lot of people do, as being kind of a humane thing to do. But you don't really think about that with humans. Now, I understand from the scenario she's painting, this guy's not going to make it. Yeah, his guts are out. He's being eaten alive. And she says, well, I just decided to put him out of his misery. That's what I would do with one of my pigs. But I don't think law enforcement really looks at it that way.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, especially if you're going to put him out of his misery and then

[Mike Ferguson]

cut him up and throw him in a lake.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And not call the police and say, hey, terrible thing happened. This is what I did, because it was not good. But now I need you to come get the body and I'll give you a statement. Blah, blah, blah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Isn't that the thing? If you actually did it that way, even if it wasn't right, but you thought it was right at the time, wouldn't you call the authorities and just be honest and explain what happened? What would be the purpose of hiding it at that point? Because if you thought you were going to get in trouble, you wouldn't shoot him. No, you just let him die and then call the police and say, I don't know what happened, he got in the pig pen, they ate him. I don't know. But that's where everything always falls apart. These stories, they just don't line up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I just don't think it passes the mustard.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is that the saying, passes mustard with a D? Because how does that. How do you pass mustard? Like, I mean, you can pass it around the table.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I always thought it was muster. Now, I could be wrong.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

No, maybe it is mustard. But what is muster?

[Mike Ferguson]

Muster, that's like you muster off of a ship or into a spot on a ship. I don't know. There's a muster station when I go

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

on a cruise, so doesn't pass the muster.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know what that means.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Take it past the station.

[Mike Ferguson]

It could be mustard or mustard, but I'm leaning away towards mustard for obvious reasons. Number one, you said it. Number two, it just doesn't seem to make sense.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I know somebody will let us know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, they will.

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[Mike Ferguson]

Amazon.com she said she left the body in the pig pen until the pigs were done eating. After a couple of days, Susan picked up the rest of the remains and put them in trash bags. However, an animal, possibly a coyote, smelled the remains and tore open the trash bags and pulled the leg out to the pond area. Boy, she got an answer for everything.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

He really does.

[Mike Ferguson]

Susan said she didn't call the police because she was afraid her pigs would be shot by authorities because they ate human. Yeah, maybe we don't care about this guy Robert and the fact that he's dead and now a coyote is eating his remains and taking his bones all over the place. She's really worried about her pigs, though.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, yeah, because now she won't be able to put them on the market

[Mike Ferguson]

or feed them any other people she might decide to shoot.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, that's true, too.

[Mike Ferguson]

Susan was told that investigators were going to search every inch of her property and they asked her what else they might find. Susan asked for a piece of paper. She drew an outline of the barn and pig pens. She then drew an X and said there was something worse in that location.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Oh, my.

[Mike Ferguson]

Worse than Robert being eaten and having his guts torn out in a pig pen?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. These guys are probably like, these officers are probably like, what is going on out here?

[Mike Ferguson]

They're probably on the radio saying, can we get some backup? I don't know how many units we have, but let's get more. She then told them that this was where they would find Steve. And Steve was Steven Della Ceno, a handyman who worked on the property in 2012. Like Robert, Stephen moved off. His children had no way to get in contact with him and hadn't heard from him in years. But they didn't think he was dead. Susan Claimed that in the summer of 2012, two of her guns went missing. She found them among Steve's belongings and confronted him. They got into a physical altercation. During the struggle, Steve grabbed the rifle and grabbed her legs. The gun went off, and Steve was shot in the back of the head. But the shot didn't kill him. Instead, he. He got up and chased Susan to the barn where she picked up a rifle. At one point, he was down on his knees and she was above him. She shot him in the head again, and he died in the barn. All right, let's dissect this story a little bit. Yeah, I understand that in a struggle with a gun, a gun could go off. Right. And someone could be shot. It did seem a little strange to me that he grabs this rifle, they're kind of in a struggle, and he shot in the back of the head.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Seems bizarre.

[Mike Ferguson]

It seems like a weird place. I'm not saying it couldn't happen. It doesn't seem like the most likely place that a person in a struggle over a gun would get shot. And then he chases her to the barn. She's up, let's say in the loft or wherever, he's on his knees and she just, what, zeros down on him and shoots him right in the. In the head?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's what it sounds like.

[Listener/Caller]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

These stories are always fascinating and, and you know, I always say it, There are things that could be true, but are they more likely to be true or false or a made up story? This one doesn't have a. A great likelihood to me that it rings true. I'll say that Susan went on to say that she was distraught and she went into another room to think. A while later, she went back outside and found that the pigs had gotten to Steve and were beginning to eat his body. What kind of pigs are you raising here, lady?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, magically they found Steve's body and started eating it while she was, you know, having a moment to think.

[Mike Ferguson]

To think. She's reflecting.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right after she shot and killed this man, the pigs dragged the body back into the pigsty area. She said she left the body out there for a number of days, and when she returned, all that was left were the skull, spine, and some other bones. And then two weeks later, she buried what was left behind the barn. I mean, it's getting to be like this is a Tuesday for her.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It really is. I mean, I'm thinking this happened. She went back out after thinking and said, oh, the pig's got him. Well, I'll just let it Be for a little bit, you know, wait a day, two days, whatever, and I'll come back out. I mean, no sense of urgency to, like, let me try to at least keep the body intact.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, no, because that would be just less she has to bury.

[Listener/Caller]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I just cannot even imagine being a police officer listening to these stories. I felt like my meter is just. It's off the charts.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's just going off like crazy.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

One thing I will tell you is I have no desire to lay down with the pigs.

[Mike Ferguson]

I. No, no.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Someone ever says, hey, Ferg, we need you to just play hide and seek. Go lay with the pigs and play dead.

[Mike Ferguson]

Are a lot of pigs man eaters? I was not aware of this.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I was not. I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

I knew. I knew they do it in movies, right.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

But they always say pigs will eat anything that's tr.

[Listener/Caller]

True.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

So I'm guessing this is that anything.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm sure we have folks who have pigs and they're going to call or write in and let us know.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, Susan said she didn't call the police in this instance because again, she was worried authorities would put her pigs down.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, yeah, because they ate a human. So most likely they would put them down.

[Mike Ferguson]

During your interview, Susan said she vowed animal life more than human life. And I think that's very apparent.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right, sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Even through these stories that she's giving police, whether they're accurate or not, even the way she's telling them, she values animal life more than human life. Detective Eric Henderson asked Susan if there were any other bodies on her property. He recalled her chilling response in his interview with the show. Snapped. She told me that if she told me about the 17 others that she would spend the rest of her life in jail.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

17 others?

[Mike Ferguson]

17 others.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You found the two or 17 more.

[Mike Ferguson]

And why is that? Because she doesn't have the same type of stories for the 17 others. She thinks the stories that she has for these two are going to be okay and she's going to get off.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know if you're in a rural location, and I get it, you have a lot of other police or deputies around you, but I would think a kind of chill would go down your spine when a woman says, yeah, you know about these two, but if I tell you about the 17 others, I'm really in trouble.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I mean, that's. That's 19 people on a 20 acre farm.

[Mike Ferguson]

That's almost a body an acre.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. And you didn't qualify for mensa.

[Mike Ferguson]

I can't Believe it.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I know it.

[Mike Ferguson]

I can't believe that you could figure out that two plus the 17 more was 19.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That was. Did you see me, you know, having a hard time?

[Mike Ferguson]

I saw smoke. Yeah, I saw a little bit of smoke. On January 14, 2014, Susan was charged with two counts each of murder and first degree abuse of a corpse and one count of identity theft. I get it. You got to charge her with that. It seems like almost anticlimactic at this point, right, that she used his EBT card. After the arrest was announced, a former tenant of Susan's came forward to say that she killed three of his animals. 49 year old Patiphon Pana rented a room at the ranch for three years. Susan shot two of his dogs and one cat and fed them to the pigs. Gibbs, I'm starting to believe that this woman didn't want to spend money to feed these pigs.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Didn't have to. She was feeding them everything but pig feed.

[Mike Ferguson]

For the next three weeks, dozens of crime scene investigators searched the property. Crews dug 136 holes. One of those holes was said to have been the size of an Olympic swimming pool.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Wow.

[Mike Ferguson]

Investigators had to wear respirators because they encountered raw sewage and had to enter buildings that were deemed unfit for humans. Several deputies got sick. During the search. Investigators found the remains of both Robert Haney and Steven Della Ceno. They also found a section of the barn that contained a large pile of shoes and personal belongings. Okay, what does that mean? Is that all Robert and Steven stuff? Or is this where she put the belongings of a bunch of other people she killed?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Why hold on to that? Why not burn it and bury it so it's not there to incriminate you

[Mike Ferguson]

later on down the road? 400 bones were found on the property, but they were determined to be animal bones, not human.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Still a lot of bones.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is a lot of bones. The search ended on January 31st with no additional bones found. And that's kind of interesting because, you know, she alluded to these 17 other people. Well, it doesn't mean that she buried the 17 other people anywhere on her property.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

She could have disposed of them in other places. She may have lived somewhere else, possibly when she killed 17 other people. Although she was kind of talking about her place when she mentioned the 17 other people. So it's a little strange that they didn't find any additional bones. The examination of the remains of Robert Haney and Steven Della Ceno confirmed they died from gunshot wounds to the head. There were also marks on the bones that Indicated consumption by animals. This partially supported Susan's story, but authorities questioned if she was telling the full truth about her altercation with Stephen or finding Robert Haney already fatally wounded in the pigpen. And how could you not question it? The fact is, both of these men were handymen, right on her property. Both of them had little or sporadic contact with their families. I guess my question is, what would be the odds that two different handymen, One falls into the pig pen and is eaten by your pigs, and you have to shoot this person. The other, you say stole your guns and then tried to attack you when confronted about it, he's accidentally shot in the back of the head.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

During this struggle. And then you shoot him from a perched position while he's on his knees.

[Listener/Caller]

Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, if you're taking bets, I would think the odds on those two things both happening are pretty astronomical. Susan pleaded not guilty to the charges and asked for donations so her pigs could be slaughtered and the meat given to the Rogue River Community Center.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Why?

[Mike Ferguson]

First of all, who's asking for donations after they've been charged with two murders? Second of all, who's eating up at this community center once all of this comes out in the media, that these pigs ate apparently two men and possibly some dogs and other pets.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Do you. Do you really want that bacon that bad?

[Mike Ferguson]

I do not. And you know how much I love bacon.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Director Sue Smith said Susan was a regular visitor at the community center where she picked up food for her pigs. Her visits were less frequent over the past year. Smith also said the center could not accept meat donations unless they were processed and certified under USDA guidelines. Now, I don't know a lot about the usda. I have a strong suspicion that the USDA is not big on animals eating other people.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I don't think they would be.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then, you know, being processed for human consumption. Is it also interesting, Gibbs, that she was a regular visitor, but then in the last year, she didn't come by as much to get food for the pigs?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It is interesting. Is that because she was occupied with everything that she did out at the ranch?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I was thinking she didn't need the. The food because her pigs were getting plenty to eat over that last year.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

The different bodies that she kind of claimed to be. Yeah, she claimed to have out there. Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's sickening to think about, but, I mean, you kind of have to talk about some of these things. Ultimately, authorities euthanized Susan's picks, and that's sad, but I don't know how they Couldn't, right. Nobody's going to take these pigs. Nobody's going to eat these pigs.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Who's going to care for them?

[Mike Ferguson]

Who's going to care for them? I don't know what could be done with them. On May 26, 2014, Stephen Frank Delino was identified as the second victim found on the ranch. Up to that point, he had been unidentified in court documents. As she prepared for trial, Susan attempted to fire her defense attorneys, but the judge denied her request. She argued that one of her attorneys seemed more interested in her mental health than the case itself. I have a strong suspicion that maybe this attorney had a reason to be. Maybe this attorney thought, you know, she's not operating on all cylinders.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Doesn't seem like she is.

[Mike Ferguson]

At a hearing, she claimed that Robert left her property alive and that she wanted her attorneys to look at his cell phone records to track his whereabouts before his death. The judge told Susan he would not let her represent herself on two murder and abuse of corpse charges and reminded her she was innocent until proven guilty. She replied, as quoted by the Bend Bulletin, I realize I'm guilty of a couple of things, but I'm not guilty of murder. Always fascinating when people want to represent themselves in a murder trial, man, big, huge mistake. Yeah, everybody says it. I mean, your life is hanging in the balance. Now it would be one thing if you were an attorney, had gone to law school, had passed the bar, you know, any of those things.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But you know, not. I'm sure that she was smart, she was an engineer after all. But she wasn't an attorney.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, it's one thing to be smart, the other thing is you have to be versed in the law.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You know, you have to know what you should say, shouldn't say, what you can do, can't, you know, can do, can't do and can't do, can do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, because yeah, if not you just run into a real cousin Vinnie situation.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, when you got the two Utes, then that's it. That's all you need.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I mean, love when he cross examine that old lady with the glasses. Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

You think it's time to maybe get a thicker pair of glasses? Susan's trial started on April 14, 2015. The prosecution argued that Susan killed Steven Della Ceno and Robert Haney during heated arguments and fed their remains to her pigs. The defense argued that there was no concrete evidence to refute Susan's claims that she shot Steve in self defense or to show that Robert was alive when she shot him. Now there Might not be concrete evidence, but that last part came out of her own mouth.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

Right. She essentially said that she put him down. Susan broke down when the jury saw her confession video, telling the judge, I can't bear to watch. In her interview, she seemed to blame her sense of humor for the murder, saying, I see my stupid sense of humor become a reality. She also said that the thought she had in her head for 10 years became a reality. All right. I don't even know what to make of that. My stupid sense of humor became a reality.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah. Bizarre statement.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. You killed two people because you were too funny. You had this, you know, strange sense of humor. None of that makes sense. And then you've got, you know, thoughts that were in her head for 10 years. Does that mean she had thought about killing people for 10 years, or had she been killing people for 10 years? I don't know.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I mean, if there's 19 people out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

The jury also heard Susan say in the video, I do not value human life very much. My feeling is the only thing wrong with the planet is there's people on it. If not for us, all the other animals, even dodo birds, would be here. Okay, dodo birds is a strange one, but.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

But I get what they're saying.

[Mike Ferguson]

Did we wipe out the dodo birds or did a big comet wipe out the dodo birds? I. I don't really. I don't know.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I think we wiped out the dodo birds. Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Is the dodo birds a newer species than, like, dinosaurs and stuff? I don't know when dodo birds were around. I really don't.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Most dinosaurs are birds. Even like, Tyrannosaurus rex has feathers.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay, none of this has anything to do with my question. I actually don't know what a dodo bird is. I'm just throwing that out there.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You remember stepbrothers when they were walking around like they were dinosaurs?

[Mike Ferguson]

I love step brothers.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I was just picturing you walking around like a. Try whatever. Tyrannosaurus rex.

[Mike Ferguson]

Tana. Tanosaurus rex.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's the pills, I'm telling you. Oh, my goodness, the medication.

[Mike Ferguson]

State police forensic anthropologist Veronica Vance testified that Robert's legs were chopped off with an ax, and the thigh bone showed signs of being gnawed by an animal. She couldn't determine if the axe blows came before or after he died. Steven Delacino suffered three to four gunshot wounds to the head.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Well, this is it Tells you right? The lay was cut up by her, not the animals. And the animal, you know, the One animal dragged it over to the pond. She did that. She cut the leg with the axe.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

And then she probably tossed it into the pond.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Also now we've got three to four gunshot wounds to this man's head when before it sounded like in her story, there was one accidental shot to the back of the head, which I still think is strange. And then she shoots him in the back of the head. Ones I thought is what she said from kind of a high position.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And now it's three to four. Susan pushed the judge to allow her to cross examine witnesses, arguing it was her Sixth Amendment right to be an active participant in the trial. The judge repeatedly had to stop her for asking inappropriate questions or not following the rules of the court. On day three, she questioned Detective Eric Henderson, who she jokingly threatened to kill and feed to her pigs. Maybe this is what she's talking about with her stupid sense of humor. Yeah, as she called it. When you're on trial for killing two men and feeding them to your pigs, maybe you shouldn't joke to the detective on the stand that you're going to

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

kill him and feed him to the

[Mike Ferguson]

pig and feed him to the pigs.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Probably a big. Don't do that. Ever.

[Mike Ferguson]

The prosecution called on Susan's former cellmate Jordan Farris as an 11th hour witness. According to Oregon Live, Ferris testified that Susan told her what really happened to Robert Haney. According to Ferris, Susan said she and Robert got into an argument because he was drunk and trying to come onto her. She shot him and pushed him into the pigpen. Ferris also testified that a few days after Susan confessed, she gave her a birthday card signed the sweetest murderer in Jackson County. Oh, I'm starting to wonder how smart this lady really was. Or if she wasn't suffering from some type of mental health issues because she's doing a lot of things, Gibbs, that do not seem to make sense.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

They're out there.

[Mike Ferguson]

The defense argued that the birthday card was just a joke, noting that Susan had a strange sense of humor and made inappropriate comments at times.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I kind of getting a feeling for that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Inappropriate might be not strong enough of a word. Michael Bales, who lived with Susan for about three years, testified she had always been nice. And then I noticed a change in her. She started acting differently when Robert disappeared and became real irritated. All right, was this guy thinking after he finds all this stuff out that maybe he dodged a big, big time bullet?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Huge.

[Mike Ferguson]

Shawn Lemanis, a former worker of Susan's testified that she and Robert didn't get along. He said when she got angry, she would yell at him. Not really a yell, more of a scold. Longtime neighbor Karen Denman admitted she had a strained relationship with Susan. She didn't know who was arguing, but she often heard yelling coming from the property. In closing arguments, the prosecution noted that Susan's statements didn't match the forensic evidence. She claimed that Stephen shot himself in the head and then that she shot him in self defense. She said Robert disappeared in the summer of 2013 and she found him being eaten by her pigs a month later. She later questioned if he was alive when she shot him again. Just stuff that just doesn't make sense, right?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It really doesn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

As the judge addressed the jury before deliberations, Susan stood up, raised her hand, and asked to give jurors another demonstration on how she shot Steven Della Ceno. She said, I'd like to demonstrate how I shot him. For 10 seconds, the judge ignored her. Then she put her hands in the air and said, I held the gun like this. I mean, they're like literally right before deliberations, you know, where the judge is giving all the instructions.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she's standing up saying, hey, can I just show you again how I shot this guy?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It's like she rethought her story. Like, wait a minute now. If I, if I say I held it like this, it might be better because I think they feel like I did it this way, so I got to make sure I tell them.

[Mike Ferguson]

But it's funny to think of the judge just ignoring her and going on with their instructions to the jury. Susan was ordered back to jail. On April 21, 2015, Susan was found guilty on all counts. She was immediately sentenced to a minimum of 50 years in prison. When handing down the sentence, the judge said is quoted by ksl. You shot two people and fed them to your pigs. I don't know how else you, I can put it. You valued pigs more than you value people. It may sound harsh, but you are a cold blooded killer. I guess it doesn't even sound that harsh to me, to be honest with you. I think it's just factual. I think it's more of a statement of fact, in my opinion.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I think 50 years is pretty light.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I'm not mad about a minimum of 50 years. Right. Could be more than that. I mean, we talk about cases in other countries where people kill more people and they're walking around the streets in two or three years.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's true.

[Mike Ferguson]

So I'M good with that. I don't think this is a woman who needs to be out cohabitating with other people.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

No, not at all.

[Mike Ferguson]

And those people in prison are probably lucky that she doesn't have pigs.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You know, you know, if you're good, after you're in there for a little bit, you get to maybe help train dogs or you can, you know, get a cat sent to yourself. Play with or. Yeah, whatever. I'm sure her request will be pigs. Can you get me a pig, please?

[Mike Ferguson]

I just need one pig.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Just one.

[Mike Ferguson]

But, you know, probably now, maybe not today, could be today. But I'm sure throughout time some prisons have had pigs. They probably raised pigs to help feed the prison population. It's possible, but they sure as hell aren't going to let her around any

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

of these pigs because she should not be.

[Mike Ferguson]

But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, you know, to this day, investigators still aren't sure if Susan killed any other victims on the ranch. Detective Eric Henderson told the producers of Snapped. My take on what she told me about the possibilities of 17 other people being there was that it was true. I believe 100% that there are more people out there. And I would have to agree with that. Why would she say that?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah, it's a bizarre thing to say if it's to make up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, because she crafted these stories, right? That, you know, one was an accident, kind of, and then the guy was chasing her, so then it was self defense. But then she's going to come out and say, but if I tell you about the 17 other ones, then I'm really going to be in trouble.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

It's like that is either just a wild claim meant to throw people off, but I don't. That doesn't make any sense. So to me there's got to be some validity to it.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That or you lend it to a really bad joke telling skills or what

[Mike Ferguson]

she called her stupid sense of humor. Yeah, but it is also strange that they did so much digging and didn't find a single human bone. So I, I don't know, but this is a wild case. I mean, I think anytime you have pigs on a repeated basis eating humans, that that is just naturally going to make for a strange case.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It is.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then, you know, like most people, she has to concoct stories to kind of explain, you know, what happened to these people. But her stories just don't make any sense. I mean, Robert Haney goes missing and then he comes back a month later and he just happens to be found being eat by pigs. That makes no sense. How in a struggle does Steven Della Ceno get shot in the back of the head and then make his way to the barn?

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

It doesn't add up.

[Mike Ferguson]

Where she then is, you know, basically in a sniper position and picks him off. And what do you think? Do you think that these people, when they're telling these stories, really think that they are going to get them out from under the trouble they're in? Because we're sitting here, we analyze it, and everybody listening is probably saying the same thing. None of this makes sense, but in their mind, it must. Right. Why would you craft this and tell it if you didn't think it was going to make sense to the people you were talking to? Unless you're just not that bright. And that's a real possibility as well.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That is a possibility.

[Mike Ferguson]

But don't forget, she was an engineer who worked on submarines.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes, but we all know people that did really well in school, Right. With their educational degree, whatever degree, or.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, but had little common sense. Is that where you're going with. Yeah, I know. I know a lot of people like that, actually. But I don't know what is true of Susan Monica other than she killed two people.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she fed them to her pigs.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yep.

[Mike Ferguson]

And there's a good chance she fed a lot of other people, maybe animals, other things to her pigs as well. It's a strange and pretty disgusting story, to be honest with you.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

So if you're eating a BLT right now, we apologize.

[Mike Ferguson]

No, I would. I'd love to have one right now, and it wouldn't bother me at all.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

You're like, extra bacon.

[Mike Ferguson]

Bacon for me, please. I'm like Ron Swanson. Did you ever watch Parks and Rec?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Ron Swanson's my favorite character on there.

[Listener/Caller]

And he.

[Mike Ferguson]

He goes into this place and he says, give me all the eggs and bacon you have. He says, I don't mean bags. I mean all the eggs and bacon.

[Mint Mobile Ad Voice]

You

[Mike Ferguson]

all right, buddy? That's it for our episode on Susan Monica. We got a couple of voicemails. You want to check those out?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Let's hear them.

[Listener/Caller]

Good morning. I'm Jessica from Clarkville, Indiana. I just wanted to call and say that you are the best podcaster. Is. Love it. I recently just found it. And yes, I listen to you guys all day long. It's amazing. I think I'm on number 117. Anyway, keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, thank you so much for the wonderful voicemail. She's got a lot to go against.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

She does. But it's awesome that she thinks of us that way.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Why'd you say it like you were almost sad about it?

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Because it's. She's got a long way to go.

[Mike Ferguson]

We think her opinion's gonna change as she goes on. It might.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

We don't know. Never know.

[Listener/Caller]

Hello, my name is Jamie. I sent an email to you guys way back in 2022 regarding whether or not you guys were covering the case of David Grunwald in Alaska. Just waiting to see when that one's coming up. I hope you guys are doing well. Love the show. Talk to you soon.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

That's interesting. I actually have this email right here. It says, dear Mike and Gibby. Gibby. We, meaning her and her friends.

[Mike Ferguson]

Love you, hate Mike. Please. David Grimm.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes. How'd you. You actually. It's like you got the. Oh, you probably got the same email.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I probably did.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Listener/Caller]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I don't know.

[Mike Ferguson]

I have to look on the list and bump it up.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

I'm sure it's on there. If you told us about it, we put it on.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, we usually put all of them on there. It's just there's so many things to choose from.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, so. But I. I'll try to make it a priority.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Yes, he will.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime all the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Gibson (Gibby)]

Sam.