The Idaho College Murders Part 1

Summary

True Crime All The Time

Episode 466: The Idaho College Murders Part 1
Release Date: January 5, 2026
Hosts: Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson ("Gibby")
Podcast Network: Emash Digital / Wondery

---

Overview

In this intense two-part series opener, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson begin a deep dive into the 2022 Idaho College Murders that shocked the nation. Focused on the murder of four University of Idaho students in Moscow, Idaho, Part 1 details the victims’ lives, the events of the night, and the initial stages of the investigation, while introducing suspect Bryan Kohberger and examining his disturbing background. The tone balances their signature conversational style—occasionally bantering—with a strong respect for the gravity of the crime.

“This is a case that scared the you know what? Out of me, because at the time I had a couple of kids in college and it's always scary.”
— Mike, [12:08]

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Victims and Their Lives

(06:55–12:52)

• Ethan Chapin (21): A triplet from Conway, Washington, sports management freshman, Sigma Chi fraternity member, loved social life and sports.
  • “Since attending the University of Idaho, Ethan lived his best life. He loved the social life, intramurals, and tolerated the academics.” – Mike, [07:59]
• Zanna Kernodle (20): From Post Falls, Idaho, athlete (gymnastics, volleyball, track, soccer), marketing major, Pi Beta Phi sorority, worked at Mad Greek restaurant.
  • “She was so positive, funny, and was loved by everyone who met her.” – Mike, quoting Zanna’s sister Jasmine, [09:06]
• Madison Mogen (21): Grew up in Northern Idaho, close friends with Kaylee Gonsalves, senior marketing major, Pi Beta Phi, worked at Mad Greek, planning to move after graduation.
• Kaylee Goncalves (21): Born in 2001, Alpha Phi sorority, aspired to be a teacher, described as highly social.
  • “Kaylee and Madison were so close, they were described as more like sisters than friends.” – Mike, [09:40]

Timeline: Night & Morning of the Murders

(12:52–25:16)

• November 12, 2022 Night:

  • All four roommates plus Ethan (Zanna’s boyfriend) return home by 2am.
  • Kaylee posts final Instagram photo around 9pm.
  • Zanna takes a 4am DoorDash order.

• Early Morning (4–4:30am):

  • Strange noises, dog barking, and voices are heard; two surviving roommates (Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk) become worried as texts and calls go unanswered.
  • Security cam at 4:17am records dog barking, "voices or a whimper," and a loud thud.
  • Roommates exchange frantic texts, with escalating fear described:

    “Like he had something over his head and mouth. I'm not kidding. I'm so freaked out.”
    — Dylan (via text), [17:14]

  • Dylan reports seeing a masked man; eventually, she and Bethany meet up, terrified.

• Delay in Calling 911:

  • Despite their fear and evidence something is wrong, no one calls police until nearly noon.
  • Podcast reflects on generational differences: texting and waiting felt normal, but defense later uses this gap to cast suspicion.
  • After calling 911 at 11:56am, police arrive to an "absolutely horrific" scene.

The Crime Scene

(25:16–31:59)

• Brutality:
  • Victims found with extreme injuries (multiple stab wounds, head/facial trauma, defensive wounds); blood seen pooling and seeping out of house.
  • Madison and Kaylee found together on bed, covered in a bloodied blanket.
  • Zanna suffers over 50 stab wounds—most defensive.
  • Murder weapon: KA-BAR knife (never found), but a leather knife sheath with DNA is left on Madison's bed.

    “If that doesn’t paint a chilling picture, I don’t know what does.”
    — Mike, [30:27]

  • Investigators recover shoeprint and extensively bloody evidence.

Investigation Breaks

(31:59–36:05)

• Surveillance:
  • A white Hyundai Elantra is observed circling the area repeatedly near crime time.
  • Police match the car to Bryan Kohberger, a PhD criminology student at nearby Washington State University.
  • The vehicle’s proximity (just 7–8 miles between the universities) accelerates focus on Kohberger.

Bryan Kohberger’s Background

(36:05–58:23)

• Early Life & Personality:

  • Born 1994 in Pennsylvania; academically bright but socially awkward, with reported drug use and issues relating to women.
  • Posts online reflecting deep depression and detachment:

    “I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self worth. As I hug my family, I look into their faces. I see nothing. It's like I'm looking at a video game, but less.”
    — Kohberger's forum post, [35:15]

  • Describes suffering "visual snow" (vision condition), experiences suicidal thoughts.

• Descent and Addiction:

  • Transitions from overweight and bullied teen to dramatic weight loss and self-destructive behavior, including heroin use.
  • Claims eventual recovery: “I only used when I was in a deep suicidal state. I have since really learned a lot. Not a personal life could convince me to use it.” [42:03]

• Interest in Criminology:

  • Studied psychology and criminology, eventually working toward a PhD at WSU.
  • Asks on Reddit for participants in a survey about "emotions and psychological traits influence decision-making when committing a crime."
  • Professors, staff, and peers note his fascination with the criminal mind and increasingly disturbing behavior.

    “He tried to come across as the strongest, smartest, most important person in the room.”
    — Mike, [49:38]

  • Multiple female students report stalking and unwanted attention; staff considered pulling his scholarship.
  • Professor: “That's the guy that in many years when he is a professor we will hear is harassing, stalking and sexually abusing his students.” [54:17]

Police Focus Tightens

(58:23–65:56)

• Final Stages of the Manhunt:
  • Police zero in after DNA from knife sheath matches a discarded q-tip at his parents’ home.
  • Kohberger and his father drive cross-country after the murders; Kohberger is eventually arrested in Pennsylvania.
  • Interviewed by police—Kohberger acknowledges knowing about the Moscow murders but quickly asks for a lawyer.

    “Do you know what happened in Moscow? Yes. Do you want to talk about it? Eh, I think I would need an attorney.”
    — Interrogation scene, [63:41]

  • Family issues a statement supporting due legal process and expressing condolences for the victims.

The Lingering Impact and What’s Next

(67:24–End)

• Mike and Gibby reflect on the nightmare scenario for any parent: the vulnerability of college-age children, the terror of targeted home invasions, and the lifelong scars for the two surviving roommates.

  • "Take the college atmosphere out of it... The thought that a stranger could enter your home where you have, you know, let's say multiple people in the home sleeping, and then start viciously attacking and killing people. That is a very frightening thought." — Mike, [67:07]

• Promise to cover further revelations, legal developments, the plea process, and the ever-elusive motive in Part 2.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the impact for survivors:

  "I'm thinking about the two young ladies that luckily survived and how that has... changed their life, their world."
  — Gibby, [67:24]

• On the pace and horror of discovery:

  “Some of their faces were so badly damaged, they were unrecognizable.”
  — Mike, [27:29]

• On the social media age and crime:

  “This is a case, Gibbs, that played out, you know, where social media was very prevalent.”
  — Mike, [12:41]

• Peer warnings about Kohberger:

  “It's like the writing is on the wall right now... Did they think he was going to be a killer? No, probably not. But they knew something was going to happen.”
  — Mike, [54:58]

• On the brutality of the wounds and crime scene:

  “Blood was found on the third floor stairwell... if that doesn’t paint a chilling picture, I don’t know what does.”
  — Mike, [30:09]

---

Important Timestamps

• Victim Backgrounds: 06:55–12:52
• Timeline of the Night: 12:52–18:46
• Survivors’ Texts and Reactions: 16:35–19:37
• Discovery and 911 Call: 23:20–25:16
• Crime Scene Details: 25:16–31:59
• Early Investigation (car, knife, DNA): 31:59–36:05
• Kohberger’s Background and WSU Behavior: 36:05–58:23
• Police Narrow In / Arrest: 58:23–65:56
• Reflection on Impact and Series Forward Look: 67:24–End

---

Tone, Language, and Style

• Casual, conversational, with respectful asides and personal reflections.
• Mike’s paternal concerns and Gibby’s directness offer a listener-friendly balance.
• Frequent, sensitive pausing for the real-life horror and impact on the victims and survivors; sympathetic but unflinching in describing the brutality and psychological unease.

---

Summary

This first installment provides a rich, emotionally grounded overview of the Idaho College Murders case, meticulously laying out the timeline, the personalities lost, the unfolding tension within the house, and the complex portrait of the accused. The hosts’ natural, unhurried discussion, absent sensationalism, makes this episode essential listening for true crime followers and newcomers alike. Part 2 is teased as offering new details, a look inside the months after the arrest, and exploration of enduring questions about Kohberger’s motive.

Transcript

[A]

You know, folks, everyone in my family, and I'm including myself here, has a bad habit of signing up for things subscriptions with the intent to cancel at some point. We just never do. So we end up with a lot of subscriptions that we're not using, and that adds up to a lot of dollars. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. And who doesn't need that? Their dashboard lays out your total financial picture, including bill due dates and paydays, in a way that's very easy to digest. You can even automatically create custom budgets based on your past spending. Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone. Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. And I've been using Rocket Money for years now. I know it has saved me a bundle of money. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com tcat today. That's RocketMoney.com tcatt RocketMoney.com tcat. Foreign. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 466 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me, as always, is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[B]

Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

[A]

I'm doing great. You know, last week was. Was nice to take a week off and, you know, spend time with the family and now we're back at it. A little refreshing.

[B]

Yeah, it's always nice to have a week off.

[A]

It is. You know, we don't get a lot of them, but especially around the holidays, like to take at least a week off. So we hope everyone's having a great holiday season. We're recording right before the first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So by the time this comes out, it'll be 2026.

[B]

You all had a happy new year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I hope 2026 is a good one. I'm not going to make any promises though, because that got me into trouble last time.

[B]

Yeah, you kind of quit doing that for the last two years now.

[A]

Yeah. No more, you know, prognostications from me.

[B]

Definitely don't do anything that starts with pro.

[A]

Don't even try that. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Catherine Carpio.

[B]

Hey, Catherine.

[A]

Ricky jumped out at our highest level.

[B]

Hey, thanks Ricky.

[A]

Sherry Billett.

[B]

Well, hi, Sherry.

[A]

Spring Pierce jumped out at our highest level.

[B]

Oh, thanks, Spring. Awesome.

[A]

Angela Rogers.

[B]

Hey, thanks, Angela.

[A]

Ally Perry.

[B]

There's Ali. Terry R. Oh, Terry R. Yoma.

[A]

Creative 16.

[B]

Well, keep being creative.

[A]

Nick Smith.

[B]

Hey, Nick.

[A]

Jasmine Hauk.

[B]

Well, thanks, Hauk.

[A]

And last but not least, Emily Macrinos. And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Melissa Beebe.

[B]

Hey, thanks, Melissa.

[A]

Yeah, we appreciate the new Patreon support, the continued support. We, we also had an amazing PayPal donation from our good friend Melinda Wargacki.

[B]

Hey, Wargacki. Appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah, we've met her and her husband at CrimeCon.

[B]

They're awesome.

[A]

They live pretty close to us. So, Gibbs, we have an episode out right now on True Crime all the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Dorothy Kilgall. She was a journalist and a TV personality, really known for covering high profile murder cases. She was even on game shows and other shows. She died at the age of 52. But at the time of her death, she was investigating the assassination of John F. Kennedy, which has led to a number of conspiracy theories, if you want to call them that.

[B]

I think it could always be kind of touchy when you do an investigation into like jfk.

[A]

Well, you know, people have their theories. People are entrenched, some of them. And you also have the fact that if some of the theories are true, then there would be people who would not want certain things to come to light.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

So we'll get into all of it. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time?

[B]

I am.

[A]

We are tackling the Idaho College murders. On November 13, 2022, four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death in their off campus house at 1122 King Road in Moscow. The victims were 21 year old Kaylee Gonzalves, 21 year old Madison Mogan, 20 year old Zanna Kernodle and 20 year old Ethan Chapin. Two other roommates in the home survived that night. And you know, it's so hard for me to believe that this has been over three years. It really is shocking since these murders occurred because I remember them on the news like it was yesterday. Yeah, but this is also a case that scared the you know what? Out of me. Sure did. Because at the time I had a couple of kids in college and it's always scary. The victims were killed by Brian Kohberger, a grad student at nearby Washington State University in Pullman. Kohberger appeared to stalk them for Months. But even today, his motive is kind of unknown, and prosecutors have no definitive link between Kohberger and the victims. Now, in part one, we'll discuss the lives of the victims and how the early stages of the investigation unfolded. Ethan Chapin was born on October 29, 2002. He was a triplet, born minutes before his siblings, Maisie and Hunter. You ever known a triplet?

[B]

You know, actually, I went to school with some triplets, and they were a lot of fun, but.

[A]

Okay, you might want to add some context to that before people take that the wrong way. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I mean, just, you know, they. They were just very energetic and it was difficult to know who was who.

[A]

Okay, so they were very. Yes. Identical.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Ethan was from Conway, Washington. All three siblings enrolled in the University of Idaho in August 2022. Ethan was a freshman sports management major and a member of the Sigma Chi fraternity. He had previously played basketball in high school, his obituary said. Since attending the University of Idaho, Ethan lived his best life. He loved the social life intramurals and tolerated the academics. He also continued to play sports. And that kind of sums up my college experience right there. Yeah, obviously I've talked about it. I love the social life too much. You did, but I also did like playing intramural sports. We had our own, you know, team with made up shirts and everything.

[B]

Even continued doing that after you left university. And I remember you at the place that we used to work together.

[A]

Oh, yeah, we had a team there, too. Yeah, we played basketball. Zanna Kernodle was born on July 5, 2002. She grew up in Post Falls, Idaho. She was a gymnast and played volleyball, track and soccer. Zanna majored in marketing at the University of Idaho and was a member of the PI Beta Phi sorority and the Vandal Solutions sales team. She also worked part time at Mad Greek restaurant in Moscow. Zanna's sister Jasmine said about her, you rarely get to meet someone like Zanna. She was so positive, funny, and was loved by everyone who met her.

[B]

Sounds like she had an outgoing personality.

[A]

Yeah. It also sounds like she was into a lot of different things, especially sports. Zanna and Ethan were friends before they started dating, and Zanna spent time with Ethan's family over the summer. Zanna was roommates with Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonzalves. Madison Mogan was born on May 25, 2001. She grew up in Northern Idaho and was close friends with Kaylee Gonsalves, whom she met in middle school. Kaylee and Madison were so close, they were described as more like sisters. Than friends. Madison was a senior marketing major at the University of Idaho and a member of the PI Beta Phi sorority. She also worked at the Mad Greek restaurant with Zanna. Madison had plans to move to Boise after graduation in the spring.

[B]

Ever been to Boise?

[A]

I have not. I don't actually. I don't think I've ever even been to Idaho in.

[B]

At all in Idaho. Driving through, but never, like, you know, staying over, anything like that. But it looks like it could be a nice place.

[A]

Like, why did you laugh when you said that?

[B]

Because I didn't. I didn't really.

[A]

It almost made it sound like you were being insincere.

[B]

No, it has, like, the mountain ranges in the wilderness, and it looks like it could be, like, a good place to vacation, you know, or maybe even live. Or maybe live, you know, but I didn't stop to experience the Rockies in Idaho.

[A]

Okay. I almost feel like you're digging yourself a hole here that, like, I dug myself out, though, is going to get you in trouble.

[B]

I'm okay now.

[A]

Kaylee Gonzalves was born on June 8, 2001. Kaylee joined the Alpha Phi sorority and was studying to become an elementary school teacher. She was described as a social person who made friends wherever she went. On November 12, 2002, all of the roommates at 1122 King Road went out in Moscow. Ethan Chapin attended a formal with his sister and then went to his Sigma Chi frat house with Zanna. Kaylee Goncalves posted an Instagram photo carousel around 9pm showing herself and her roommates with the caption, One lucky girl to be surrounded by these people every day.

[B]

Seems like a very sweet post.

[A]

It does. And you know me, I'm not a big social media person, especially when it comes to posting things about myself and what I'm doing. That's just not something I'm into. But this is a case, Gibbs, that played out, you know, where social media was very prevalent. Right. These are younger people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They have a social media presence like most people their age do. And so you can tell a lot about someone or, you know, see how they lived their lives in certain ways through their social media. Kaylee and Madison went out together that night. All of the roommates were home by 2am Madison and Kaylee were together on the third floor. Zanna and Ethan were together on the second floor. And two other roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk, were also still up. Dylan's room was on the second floor with Zanna, and Ethan and Bethany lived on the first floor at 4am Zanna accepted a doordash order. Now, you know, Gibbs, here, we doordash a lot. We always doordash when you come. You do for recording night. But 4am to most of us is not doordash hours.

[B]

No, that's pretty, pretty late.

[A]

Or pretty early, depending on how you look at it. But when you're in college on the weekends, you know, 4:00am is maybe not that big a deal.

[B]

Might be prime door dash time.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure they. There's some door dashers around some of these big colleges that make pretty good money.

[B]

We're delivering those insomnia cookies and things like that.

[A]

Those are good. Shortly after 4am Dylan was woken up by strange noises in the house. Police believe the murders occurred between 4 and 4:25am the killer went up to the third floor and fatally stabbed Madison and Kaylee. Dylan heard what sounded like Kaylee playing with her dog in one of the third floor bedrooms. A short time after that, she heard who she thought was Kaylee saying, there's someone here. It's possible this was Zanna on her phone because records showed she was on TikTok at about 4:12am at 4:17am security cameras less than 50ft from Zanna's room picked up the sounds of Kaylee's dog barking and distorted audio of what sounded like voices or a whimper followed by a loud thumb. Investigators believe Zanna was still awake when Kaylee and Madison were killed. And as the killer was either coming down the stairs or leaving, he encountered Zanna, and he ended up killing her. He then killed Ethan, who was asleep in Zanna's room. Just before 4:30am the surviving roommates were texting back and forth and appeared to grow frightened as their calls and texts to the victims went unanswered. At 4:20am Dylan started calling her roommates Zanna and Kaylee and had a brief 41 second call with Bethany before calling Zanna again. She called Madison, then texted Bethany. No one is answering. I mean, I just want to take a minute, Gibbs, and, you know, know, kind of break this down. And there are a couple of things that jump out at me. Number one, these two roommates who end up surviving this, you know, unbelievably horrible attack and series of murders. They're scared. Yeah, they're hearing things. But like we always talk about, they don't know exactly what they're hearing. But then I think as they're trying to get in touch with their roommates, nobody's answering. Okay. They start to get more and more Worried. But the other thing that jumps out at me is the perpetrator and how bold this person is. I mean, how many people are in this house exactly? And are we talking one person, multiple people? I mean, these are all questions, obviously, that the police are going to have to ask, but to go into a house with, let's say, six people in there, that really either takes some incredible planning or you just don't care about what could happen to you and.

[B]

Or confidence too, right?

[A]

Yeah. And maybe overconfidence. Who knows?

[B]

I'm just thinking how frantic that situation had to be for Dylan and Bethany. Trying to figure out what is going.

[A]

On and what noises are we really hearing. Bethany tried calling Madison, Zanna, and Ethan. Dylan texted, kaylee, Kaylee, what's going on? Bethany replied, yeah, dude, wtf? Dylan described seeing someone in like a ski mask almost. They continued texting back and forth. The following messages were published by cnn. Bethany to Dillon, stfu. Now, I don't use a lot of these abbreviations, but having younger people in the house, my kids, you know, about this same age. I've come to know what all this stuff stands for. Dylan texted back to Bethany, like he had something over his head and mouth. I'm not kidding. I'm so freaked out. And then Bethany texted back, so am I. Dylan indicated her phone was about to die. And Bethany texted, come to my room, which was on the first floor. She texted, run. Dylan texted to Bethany, I'm scared, though. And then Bethany said, yeah, I know, but it's better than being alone. So Dylan ultimately went to Bethany's room. But you can put yourself in their shoes, Gibbs. Dylan is scared to death and unsure if she should try to make this move to Bethany's room or not. She ultimately does.

[B]

It's like a scene from a horror flick.

[A]

Yeah, you're in the house, someone else is in the house. It seems like something bad might be going on, but you don't know what and you don't know where they are. You know, folks, for most of my life, banks have been pretty much all the same, sometimes a little stuffy. You know, they have their fees. But Chime is changing the way people bank. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, and their app is amazing. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and allows you to get paid up to two days early with direct deposit. You can also earn up to 3.5% APY on savings. That's eight times higher than a traditional bank and they're rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. If you need to talk to someone, you're going to get a real human 247 this is the way that banking should have been all along and my younger self really would have benefited from Chime Chime is not just smarter banking, it's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comtcat that is chime.comtcatt Chime.

[C]

Is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services A secured Chime Visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+status only. Otherwise 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for detail.

[A]

Simple terms you know Healthy doesn't have to be perfect Thrive Market makes it easy with small swaps, trusted ingredients and personalized shopping that fits your lifestyle. It really is the easiest way to make better choices without feeling overwhelmed. All delivered straight to your door. Instead of the struggle of trying to figure out what foods fit your health goals, Thrive Market does the hard work for you. You can easily shop over 90 diet and lifestyle filters to find exactly what fits without second guessing. Whether you're into high protein meals, Low Sugar Treats, GLP1 Friendly Options or Gluten free staples. Thrive Market ensures the food you eat has the highest quality and is free of over 600 sketchy ingredients, so every choice is vetted by experts. My wife and I love the Smash Foods Superfood Raspberry Fruit Spread. We've ditched all jellies and jams for this. It's amazing and so much better for you. Join Thrive Market with our link thrivemarket.com tcat for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. The girls made another round of calls at 4:27am Dylan texted Kaylee, please answer at 4:32. Bethany accessed Snapchat at 4:34 and Instagram at 4:37 before all phone communication stopped for about three hours. Prosecution filings previously asserted that Dylan and Bethany Woke up around 10:23am to discover their messages were unanswered, but the transcript shared by the defense shows phone activity more than two hours before they started reaching out to their roommates, in more than four hours before calling 91 1.

[B]

Well, that's a long time to wait before you call 91 1.

[A]

Well, I think what it's possibly doing or what the defense. Right. Would want to show is that maybe they're not being 100% truthful in what they've said. Maybe they know more than what they have told. Bethany's phone activity started with a call to her dad at 7:30am Dylan accessed several social media apps. Bethany talked to her dad and took photos. Dylan was on Instagram for over two hours and spent time on Snapchat and. Indeed. But my question is, how unusual is this? Have you ever lived with roommates before? Yeah, I have too. And it wasn't unusual, let's say in a bigger environment, a bigger house, to not see that person for hours and hours at a time. Especially in the morning, you're like, okay, they're still sleeping.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They were obviously up at 4 or whatever time. So, you know, college kids sleep in when they can.

[B]

You're not going to go in the room and check and things like that.

[A]

No. But you do have to look at it in contrast with the fear. Right. From earlier. Not to mention the fact that, okay, there's a guy in a ski mask and you know what the defense is going to say. So what, you see a guy in a ski mask and then you just get up and you get on Instagram.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you don't go check on anybody.

[B]

You don't make a phone call.

[A]

Well, and that's where the 10:23am kind of mark comes in. Because that's when Dylan began reaching out to her roommate. She texted Kaylee, please answer. And wrote to Madison, are you up? She texted kaylee, again, are you up? They continued using their phones for the next hour, including messages and calls, until Bethany called 911 at 11:56am to report Zanna unconscious. Now, pre cell phones, pre texting, you'd have no choice, really, but to get up and go check on somebody. Sure. But that's not how kids kind of operate today. No. You know that you have kids that are in their 20s. And the one thing that I have really noticed is even though we're in the same house, a lot of the time, instead of just walking down one floor or into another room, I'll get a phone call or a text and. Okay. It's just the way things are, I guess it is.

[B]

It used to Bug me like, can't you just come here, talk to me real quick?

[A]

Yeah, but now my wife's doing it, and she's of my same age, so what are you going to do? Two other friends could be heard with them on the call. Friends were called to the house because they thought one of the victims had passed out because she wasn't waking up. One of the roommates said, per abc. One of our roommates who's passed out and she was drunk last night, and she's not waking up. Oh, and they saw some man in their house last night. And let's be honest, right out of the gate again, some of this information is strange.

[B]

It seems so.

[A]

If you saw a man in what you described as a ski mask, do you get up, investigate it? Maybe not because you're scared, but then do you just fall asleep? All questions that are going to be asked. Responding officers found the four victims. Dylan Mortensen told authorities that in the middle of the night, she saw a man in black clothes and a mask walking past her in the house. She had opened her bedroom door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Zanna's room. She heard a male voice say something to the effect of, it's okay. I'm going to help you. She opened her door again and saw the masked figure. She described him as at least 5 foot 10 and not very muscular, but athletically built with bushy eyebrows. She said she stood there frozen and in shock. She didn't recognize the man who walked toward the back sliding glass door of the home. She locked herself in her room. Now, Dylan acknowledged that her memory was a bit blurry since she had just woken up and may still have been drunk.

[B]

That's a probably a strong possibility.

[A]

Yeah. If you were in college with me, it's almost a certainty. Police found a horrific crime scene. They found blood pooled on bed comforters. It was on the walls, the floors. Some of the victims had so much blood on them, officers at first could not see additional injuries. Some of their faces were so badly damaged, they were unrecognizable. Kaylee and Madison were found in one of the beds on the third floor. They were covered by a pink blanket that was covered in blood. A knife sheath was found on the bed next to Madison. There was a large pool of blood near Kaylee's midsection and blood on the walls. The bodies appeared to have lost a significant amount of blood. And I would say so. I mean, we're describing what sounds like just a horrific scene where Blood is everywhere. Madison had wounds to her forearm and hands and a gash under her right eye that went from the corner of her eye to her nose. Kaylee was struck in the face by an unknown object. According to a report, Kaylee was unrecognizable, as her facial structure was extremely damaged.

[B]

That's so brutal.

[A]

It is, and it's hard to talk about, but you have to get into the weeds, right, to paint the picture of what type of monster we're dealing with here. The murder of four young people would be bad no matter how it happened. Yes, but these were very savage, horrific murders. They both suffered stab wounds to the liver and lung. Kaylee had two brain bleeds, a stab wound behind her clavicle that cut the vein and artery, and injuries connected with asphyxiation and blunt force trauma. So two girls who, you know, everybody described as wonderful had nothing but glowing things to say about them. They're in college. They're trying to prepare for the next chapter in their life. They have families at home who love them, and they are just savagely murdered. And again, I think it's one of the things that scared me so bad when this information started to come out about the murders.

[B]

Well, obviously, whoever did this is an absolute monster.

[A]

Yeah, there's no doubt about it. Kaylee also had unique injuries, described as a horizontal pattern. It's not clear what caused those injuries. Zana's body was on the floor. Ethan was found on Zana's bed. Zana had over 50 stab wounds. Most of them were defensive. There was evidence of a struggle in her room. Her fatal injuries were stab wounds to her lung and heart. Investigators believe Zana was still awake when Kaylee and Madison were attacked. She was most likely eating the food she had ordered. She possibly heard something and started going upstairs to check it out. Blood was found on the third floor stairwell. Ethan Chapin's fatal injury was a stab wound under his clavicle that severed his subclavian vein and artery. His jugular vein was also severed. Officials confirmed that Ethan's blood seeped out of the side of the house before his body was found out of the house. And I do remember this when the news broke that it was reported at some point, but it's hard to fathom now. The body does hold quite a bit of blood.

[B]

It does.

[A]

But to travel along the floor and reach a point where it can escape to the outside of the home, man, if that doesn't paint a chilling picture, I don't know what does.

[B]

It's scary. That's all I can keep thinking in my head how scary this event had to be for those individuals.

[A]

The murder weapon was a KA Bar knife, which has never been found. However, DNA was recovered from a tan leather knife sheath left on Madison's bed. A shoe print, believed to be from the intruder, was found outside one of the survivors rooms. Now, you and I have talked about K bars quite a bit.

[B]

We have.

[A]

That is your kind of favorite knife.

[B]

It is.

[A]

You bought me one for Christmas. I love it. It's something that, you know, the armed forces, especially the Marines, I think have used for a very long time. But it's also a very dangerous knife.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It can do quite a bit of damage. It's got a longer blade. Authorities reviewed surveillance from the area and saw white Hyundai Elantra passed by the victim's house three times before entering the area a fourth time at 4:04am the car came back into view at 4:20am speeding off. So, I mean, I think you'd have to say, Gibbs, that you know, police very early on, they have some things to work with.

[B]

They do.

[A]

They know what type of weapon was used? They don't have it. But the killer apparently left behind a sheath for the knife that had his DNA on it. They also have some shoe prints, and they have this White Hyundai Elantra. Moscow police asked authorities to look for white Elantras. On November 29, a Washington state University police officer searched cars matching the description at the university and found one registered to Brian Kohberger, a PhD criminology student.

[B]

So the murders take place at the University of Idaho, but they find this vehicle and then the visual at Washington State University. But really, that's what, seven, eight miles apart?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's just a little over seven miles apart. Maybe a ten minute drive or so. It's not far at all.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which does explain why Washington State University police officers would be looking out for a white Elantra.

[B]

Sure. I'm assuming they're thinking if that happened there, it could happen here.

[A]

Yeah. And we're not very far apart. Brian Kohberger was born on November 21, 1994. He was raised in a working class town near the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. His father was a maintenance worker and his mother worked in the school system. He has two older sisters. Brian was described as awkward and withdrawn. He did well in school, but faced personal challenges, such as allegedly using drugs in his late teens. He struggled in social situations and had limited success in relationships. Some classmates described him as creepy towards women, and others said his feelings of isolation and rejection by women were similar to those who associate with incel like ideology. This is according to aetv. And you know, the whole incel thing comes up in more and more cases, especially, you know, involving men killing women for this very reason. You know, the rejection, the lifelong problem with the opposite sex, leading to what? A hatred of women and revenge? Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's all kinds of things around it. Kohberger allegedly wrote on forums during his youth about experiencing depression. He posted on the forum Tapatok, previously known as UCOO. According to the New York Times, 16 year old Kohberger wrote in 2011, I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self worth. As I hug my family, I look into their faces. I see nothing. It's like I'm looking at a video game, but less. Okay. Doesn't seem like the typical writing of a 16 year old boy. No organic sack of meat. He wrote about feeling disconnected from society and experiencing anxiety, depression, depersonalization, a lack of emotion and the constant thought of suicide. Now some of those things unfortunately are not all that uncommon. A lot of people have anxiety, A lot of people experience depression. Sure do. But I don't know how many people feel that when they're looking at their family. It's like looking at a video game, only less so literally, their family is less to them than a video game.

[B]

Pretty distant.

[A]

Kohberger commiserated with others about suffering from a little understood neurological condition called visual snow, in which a person's vision is obscured by scattering dots. Okay, I have never heard of that before. It sounds like it would be awful to live with now. I've seen stars, you know, I've had weird things happen to my eyes, but they've gone away. Yeah, if you had something like that that was constant, that would be problemsome. That would be very problematic Now. He didn't use his name on the website, but the post included a reference to his birthday. His username xr, matches an email address for Coburger that appeared in a 2009 leak of account from an online payment company. That account listed his location as Effort, Pennsylvania, and that's where he grew up. And some of the posts also contained details that friends said matched their recollections of his behavior and struggles at the time. In one post, Kohberger wrote that when he looked in the mirror, he felt he did not deserve to live. Nothing I do is enjoyable. I'm blank. I have no opinion, I have no emotion, I have nothing. Can you relate? And it was said that These feelings started around the same time as his visual snow symptoms, and that was in September of 2009.

[B]

Kind of like how we were talking earlier in the Patreon episode about the Manchurian Candidate. I feel like these would be some of the symptoms a Manchurian Candidate would have.

[A]

Well, at the very least you'd have to say that it doesn't seem as though life is going well for him. He's not doing well.

[C]

No New Year energy is all about resetting routines, feeling healthier and starting fresh. Why not give your dog the same reset? From daily walks to better habits at home, our dogs are always right there with us. Ollie helps you start the new year with intention, beginning with your dog's bowl with fresh protein packed meals crafted from real human grade ingredients. Your dog can start the year feeling their best too. Choose from five recipes and get a personalized plan for your dog's needs. Meals arrive perfectly portioned with a scoop and storage container so serving is fast and mess free. And with Ollie's in app on demand health screenings Tap real experts whenever you need peace of mind. Visit ollie.com crossover and use code crossover for 60% off your first box weight.

[A]

Loss is hard and aside from people being judgmental, many people say it's just a matter of willpower. Which is not true. Your doctor may not know much about weight loss or GLP1 medications and if you manage to get weight loss medications, it will be expensive. Mochi Health is out to fix all that. They'll match you with a doctor who is an expert in weight loss, someone who has access to state licensed pharmacies that provide weight loss medications at an affordable price and knows how to be empathetic. You have unlimited access to your doctor and unlimited visits with a nutritionist, dietitian. And it works. On average, Mochi members lose 36 pounds in their first year. All told, over 100,000 Mochi members have lost over 4 million pounds. They have over 12,000 reviews on Trustpilot and a rating of excellent. It's so easy to get started. Go to joinmochi.com and take a two minute questionnaire to see if weight loss medications may be right for you. Get signed up, choose a doctor and schedule a telehealth appointment for a time and place that's convenient for you. You and your doctor will then craft a personalized weight loss plan and any medications would be delivered directly to your door. Just think about it. Three minutes from now you could be set with an appointment and on your way to a weight loss journey that works. Go to joinmochi.com that's J O I N M O C H I.com his friend Thomas Arnst recalled about this time. I know it was something that really bugged him. He was basically to the point where he was neurotic about it. Kohberger wrote that he tried anti migraine medication, visited a neurologist and went on a strict diet to resolve the problem. By 2012, it appeared he was learning to live with the condition. He wrote that he had accepted it and was coming to terms with it. Kohberger graduated from high school in 2013 and he started using heroin around that time. Now I don't know if he went straight to heroin, but most people do not.

[B]

It's a pretty big jump.

[A]

I mean it's very powerful. Not that you couldn't, but I think a lot of people who use drugs maybe work their way up to heroin. Two high school friends, Casey Arentz and Brie, who asked to keep her last name private, told CBS that Kohberger was overweight and bullied until his senior year when he lost about £100.

[B]

Well, £100 is a lot of weight to lose.

[A]

It is a lot, casey recalled. He was real thin. It was after that weight loss that a lot of people noticed a huge switch. Her brother, who was Co Burger's friend, said he was bullied by him. When Brian would get kind of angry with him, he would gaslight him and get physically aggressive. Kohberger would sometimes put her brother in chokehold. Brie also claimed that Kohberger started using heroin, saying, you just saw him becoming more self destructive. He really stayed secluded, Kohberger wrote in May 2018 to his longtime friend Jack Bayless via Facebook. I only used when I was in a deep suicidal state. I have since really learned a lot. Not a personal life could convince me to use it. So by that point he claimed he had been off heroin for two years.

[B]

Sounds like to him he had a purpose to use it when things were really, really bad. But he also learned from it and hasn't used it at that time for.

[A]

Two years, according to him. Yeah, now I don't know what heroin does to you. I will freely admit and happily admit I've never tried it. I just know it's not good. To me it's one of those really scary ones that can kill you if things go wrong.

[B]

Yeah, you get a bad batch or take too much and can be addictive.

[A]

In an October 2018 message, Kohberger wrote that he was interested in studying criminals and would like to be involved in capturing violent criminals. But it could be difficult to get a job like that. And we said it right. He was studying criminology. I think that's the other very fascinating part of this story to many people. Here you have a person studying criminology in the hopes, as he put it, to someday help catch violent criminals, but who ultimately becomes a violent criminal.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And we'll talk about it, you know. But did he use his knowledge, what he learned studying criminology in the commission of the crimes? Brian's friend Casey last saw him in 2017 at a friend's wedding. She hugged him and told him he looked good, and she was proud of him. His friend Bree recalled that he was focused on earning a criminology degree because he wanted to change the world and do something positive. She added, people were not his strong suit. And I think through his criminology studies, he was really trying to understand humans and trying to understand himself. In 2018, Kohberger completed an associate's degree in psychology at Northampton Community College. He earned his bachelor's at DeSales University in 2020, and then he did further graduate studies at DeSales and completed those in 2022. In the summer of 2022, Kohberger moved across the country to begin a PhD program at Washington State University in Pullman, which is, like we said, less than 10 miles from Moscow, Idaho.

[B]

So, like you said, he's developing the knowledge of all this criminology, and that's what gets him out to just across the border from Idaho.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's a pretty long move, right? He's moving all the way across the country. But the other thing that. That I want to talk about is, right, this is a guy who had some issues. You'd have to say that we, you know, detailed out some of them. But doesn't it seem Gibbs, like he's putting his life on track? According to him, he's not doing drugs. He gets his associate, then he gets his bachelor's, and he starts working on a PhD. That's, you know, some pretty heady stuff.

[B]

It looks like you said he said it in the right direction.

[A]

He took classes in forensic psychology and was interested in the antisocial behavior of famous killers. He. He watched videos and read articles about how killers think and act. You know who else does that? You. Me. A lot of people interested in true crime. Now, you can look at it on one hand as trying to figure out how these people can do what they do, which is, I think, the way that most of us consume true crime right we're appalled by the killer's actions, but we're also fascinated because how can somebody do this? What led up to this? But I just wonder if that's how Bryan Koberker is looking at it or if he's almost in some ways revering some of these killers and studying them for different reasons.

[B]

Well, what we know now, pretty sure he was probably doing the latter.

[A]

Yeah, I would agree with you. I think most people would as well. His former DeSales professor, Dr. Katherine Ramsel, later noted to NewsNation he had a fascination with the criminal mind. She worried that what he learned may have informed or inspired his actions. So it does kind of go with what we were just talking about. Also, Dr. Ramslin is a pretty well respected person within her field. Yeah, Morph. And I actually had her on an episode of Criminology, but she also comes up in many of the cases that.

[B]

We do because of her knowledge.

[A]

Yeah. So I mean, to have her as a professor, that would be kind of amazing. Kohberger posted what appeared to be a university approved survey on Reddit, asking participants to provide information to understand how emotions and psychological traits influence decision making when committing a crime. According to later released documents, students and professors at WSU told investigators that Kohberger seemed creepy and intense, with one predicting that he could become the type of professor that harassed and stalked students.

[B]

That's a pretty profound observation of him.

[A]

Well, obviously, you know, these students and professors who said that they're, they're going to turn out to be right. Prosecutors would later say that Kohberger spent hours scrolling through through social media accounts of young women at WSU and the University of Idaho and may have become fixated on the victims living in the off campus house. Because that's a big part of this case. Right. Why did Bryan Kohberger choose to attack the residents of this house in Moscow?

[B]

Out of all the places that he could have chose, why this, why this.

[A]

One, and why the people in this house? But it also sounds like he's stalking right through social media. One student who was in class with Kohberger told police he acted aggressively and stared at classmates when he wasn't dominating group discussions. The class often sat through Kohberger's lengthy verbal sparring with professors. He tried to come across as the strongest, smartest, most important person in the room. The student had a bad feeling about Kohberger from the moment she met him at orientation in the fall of 2022. Kohberger would trail her after class, block her path when she tried to leave conversations and Stare at her with such intensity. She started keeping a tally of their encounters. She caught him aggressively staring at her up to nine times in one class. He also followed her after class.

[B]

That's so creepy.

[A]

You know, it's bad when it gets to the point where you have to keep a tally of how many times this is occurring every class. Police documents stated Kohberger always seems to want to be in the general area of her and others in the program that didn't want to have anything to do with him. You know why? Most likely they didn't want to have anything to do with him? Because he was creepy. Yeah, they all said it. Right. This guy is staring at women, and I think this is where, you know, some of the incel talk comes in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, when he goes through high school and, let's say, doesn't have girlfriends and things like that, he doesn't know how to. To talk to these women. He might like them, he might want to go out with them, but what does he do? He just sits there and stares at.

[B]

Them, making everybody very uncomfortable.

[A]

Well, it's not the way to get a date, that's for sure.

[B]

And then if they did talk to him, he would. Sounds like, from what her accounts were, he'd block them from leaving. You don't think that's going to creep them out? You're not going to let me leave this conversation?

[A]

Other accounts shared similarities, Mainly that Kohberger's presence kept people on edge. You ever been around somebody like that who you just felt like something was off and they were on the verge, like they could go either way? Yeah, they could go off at any minute.

[B]

Yeah. Been around somebody like that.

[A]

He was known on campus for his unblinking stares, which his colleagues described as his attempt to. To assert dominance. Because everyone knows the most dominant person is the one who can hold a stare the longest.

[B]

That's right. Just do a blink contest or a.

[A]

Staring contest, as it's most commonly referred to. One faculty member said he had a keen interest in her undergraduate assistant. Coburger would stand by the assistant's desk, looking over her shoulder as she worked. Another professor was asked to walk the assistant to her car after work just because of Kohberger's behavior. One student said that whenever she looked up, Kohberger, who was a TA in her class, was always staring. However, he rarely spoke to students. She also felt he would time his exit so he could leave when she did and follow her to her car. A new year, colder days. This is the moment your winter wardrobe really has to deliver. If you're craving a winter reset, start with pieces truly made to last season after season. Quince brings together premium materials, thoughtful design and enduring quality so you stay warm, look sharp and feel your best all season long. Quince has everything you need, from Mongolian cashmere sweaters to wool coats and amazing denim that holds up to daily wear. And all of it just looks amazing. By cutting out middlemen and traditional markups, Quince delivers the same quality as luxury brands at a fraction of the price. And my wife and I have been ordering so much stuff from Quince, but now she is on to their jeans and she loves them. She says they're the best jeans she's ever worn and she's had some that have cost four or five, five, six times as much. Refresh your winter wardrobe with quints. Go to quint.com teacat for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Quincom TCATT free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com TCAT professors and faculty receive several complaints about him Multiple WSU staff met before Christmas of 2022 to discuss their students, but discussions about Coburger dominated the meeting because he was said to be highly problematic.

[B]

That is not good, no?

[A]

And how can he not be if he's getting all these complaints right levied against him? Apparently. They swapped stories and debated pulling his funding and his TA position. One of the teachers said at the meeting, as quoted by cnn, mark, my work, I work with predators. If we give him a PhD, that's the guy that in many years when he is a professor we will hear is harassing, stalking and sexually abusing his students. And this is the one thing that just keeps jumping out at me. People in his life, or not even in his life, but people around him, they are seeing all kinds of signs.

[B]

It's like the writing is on the wall right now.

[A]

Did they think he was going to be a killer? No, probably not. But they knew something was going to happen. It was just a matter of time. One professor claimed Kohberger tried to prevent him from leaving his office. He described this as power tripping. Kohberger stood close enough to students to trap them at their desks. He also physically blocked female students trying to leave a professor's office. Students and professors described instances where they had to step between Kohberger and others. One faculty member wouldn't leave a female student alone in an office with him.

[B]

Sounds like no female student should ever be left alone with him no.

[A]

And even he had problems with some of the males, too. Right. Or they had problems with Him. In August 2022, a University of Idaho student said she met Kohberger in an apartment lobby and directed him towards a pool party. She became uncomfortable with this staring and awkward conversation. And that goes back to my thought. Right. I don't believe that this is a guy who ever was comfortable talking to women. And so what did he resort to, like, staring them down, walking after them, stalking them, basically.

[B]

It's interesting about the abundance of information about him coming out.

[A]

Yeah. Now, I don't know how much of this was known ahead of time by everyone. I'm sure certain people knew certain things, but obviously after the murders and after he's identified, then it's all gonna, you know, come pouring out.

[B]

I mean, we've done cases, and I've heard people come forward like, oh, yeah, he was like this, or she was like that, but not on the level of this.

[A]

This is almost like everybody he encountered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Had something to say about him, and none of it was good. In another instance, a male coworker at a bookstore on WSU described acting as a buffer between his female co worker and co burger who frequented the store. Police also learned that Kohberger applied for an internship with the Pullman police in the fall of 2022. In an essay, he wrote that he wanted to help rural law enforcement agencies with how to better collect and analyze technological data in public safety operations. Kohberger's WSU classmate Benjamin Roberts told 48 Hours that Kohberger seemed comfortable around other people. He was very quick to offer his opinion and thoughts. He would describe things in the most complicated, perhaps academic way possible. It was like he was trying to convince people that he knew what he was talking about. And I'll be honest, I've known a lot of people like this.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

They want you to believe that they're smart, and they're trying everything in their power to make you believe that whether they are or not. Some of them aren't that smart. But they're talking in a way that might make you think they are.

[B]

But it also comes off the exact opposite they're hoping for.

[A]

A lot of the times it does. One of Kohberger's neighbors in Pullman recalled speaking to him about the murders. He said he brought it up in conversation. He asked if I had heard about the murders, which I did. And then he said, yeah, seems like they have no leads. Seems like it was a crime of passion. At the time of our conversation, he it was only a few days after it happened, so there wasn't much details out. Police learned that Kohberger registered his car in Washington State on Nov. 18, five days after the murders, and received a new license plate. The car had previously been registered in Pennsylvania, and his Pennsylvania plate was set to expire on November 30. His phone was tracked heading to Moscow before the attack and returning to Pullman. All right, so they already are looking at him. Right. He owns a white Hyundai Elantra, but let's face it, there probably are quite a few of those.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Around. But when you add in all of the strange things people have said about Brian Kohberger, okay. That would make police want to look at him further. And then obviously, the phone tracking, I mean, once they learn that, he's got to be really high up there on their list. Meanwhile, on November 30, 2020, two families and classmates held a candlelight vigil at the University of Idaho. Ethan Chapin's mother, Stacy, said, per abc, we are eternally grateful that we spent so much time with him. That's the most important message that we have for you and your families to make sure that you spend as much time as possible with those people, because time is precious, and it's something you can't get back. And that is absolutely true. You can't buy time. You can't, and you can't get back. Moments that you miss.

[B]

Wish we could.

[A]

We all do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kaylee's father, Steve Gonsalves, noted that Kaylee and Madison died together in the same room in the same bed on December 7th. Police revealed to the public that they were looking for the driver of a white 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra seen near the victim's house on November 13th. Bryan Kohberger was stopped by the police in Indiana on December 15th for traffic violations. After his semester ended in December, Kohberger and his father drove across the country together in the Hyundai Elantra to get to Pennsylvania for the holidays. The Hancock County Sheriff's Office and Indiana State Police said there was no information at the time on the suspect in the Idaho crimes or specific information on the white Elantra. The state police added, the trooper having learned the two had been stopped minutes before by a deputy from the Hancock County Sheriff's Department who he knew was working just down the interstate from him, used his discretion and released the two men with a verbal warning.

[B]

So at this point, there's no reason to retain this guy?

[A]

No. I mean, as far as the police in Indiana I don't think they know anything. I mean, it would be different if there was a warrant out for his arrest, but that would come up right in any quick, easy lookup. On December 27, police recovered a discarded Q tip from Kohberger's parents house in Pennsylvania. The Idaho state lab determined the DNA from the trash belonged to the father of the person who left DNA on the knife sheet. Bryan Kohberger was arrested in Pennsylvania on December 30, 2022. At the time, police declined to say when he became a suspect or what brought him to their attention out of, you know, all the thousands of tips that they had received. After he was arrested, Kohberger was taken to a state police barracks to be interviewed by Moscow officers, the Idaho State Police, and the FBI. They chatted about the WSU football team, his studies, and his TA position. He said he understood they were engaging in small talk, but he would appreciate it if they told him what they wanted. A detective told him it was because of what happened in Moscow. When asked if he knew what happened, Kohberger said yes. When asked if he wanted to talk about it, he responded, well, I think I would need a lawyer.

[B]

Well, at least he's smart about that. I'm sure he learned that in his studies.

[A]

Oh, yeah, I would think a criminology major, he's got a few degrees going for a PhD would understand the value that an attorney would bring.

[B]

But.

[A]

But what are you thinking if you're the police? Do you know what happened in Moscow? Yes. He knows people were murdered. Do you want to talk about it? Eh, I think I would need an attorney.

[B]

Yeah. Kind of would feel like, hey, we got our guy.

[A]

Yeah. And that doesn't mean a person's guilty, but police tend to lean that way. I think you're not getting off radar, let's put it that way. He asked what questions they had for him and if his parents and dog were okay. He finally said he wanted to speak to an attorney and his interview ended. Public defender Jason Labar shared a statement on behalf of Kohberger's parents on January 1, 2023. It read, first and foremost, we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them. We will continue to let the legal process unfold as a family. We will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown Facts and make erroneous assumptions. We respect privacy in this matter as our family and the family suffering laws can move forward through the legal process. I thought that was a very well written statement. I mean, I think if you were Bryan Kohberger's family, what else are you going to say? Now, obviously you feel for the victims, the victims families, but you probably also do not believe that your son is capable of having committed these, you know, vicious, horrible murders.

[B]

You just really hope not. Right.

[A]

Well, don't you have to stand by him? Yeah, unless and until it's proven, and then even after it's proven, you know, parents will still stand behind. Doesn't mean they agree with what their.

[B]

No.

[A]

Their kids have done. But they're not going to abandon them. Some of them.

[B]

I think that's another nightmare right there. When you, you know, your kid did something unbelievable and it's proven.

[A]

Yeah. Beyond a doubt. Yeah. That. That would be extremely tough to. To live with. No doubt. Coburger was extradited to Idaho on January 4th and was charged with four counts of first degree murder and one count of burglary. Police also searched his apartment and found a reddish brown stained pillowcase, a black glove and hair strands. Okay, so, you know, they had some stuff to work with. They started to zero in on him to the point where they went to Pennsylvania, Right. To get some DNA. It turned out to be his dad's, but they knew that somebody in that family left that DNA on that knife sheath. And then they find some, you know, compelling things in his apartment. But I think that's it for the first part of the Idaho college murders. You know, like we said, Gibbs, this is a. It's a scary one to think about, you know, whether you have kids in college or not. Maybe more so if you do, because it is something that does worry me. But take the college atmosphere out of it. The thought that a stranger could enter your home where you have, you know, let's say multiple people in the home sleeping, and then start viciously attacking and killing people. That is a very frightening thought.

[B]

It is. And I'm thinking about the two young ladies that luckily survived and how that is probably not. Probably how that has changed their life, their world.

[A]

Oh, scarred them. Yeah, no doubt about it. Because you're always going to have the, you know, why did I live? The others didn't. There's going to be survivor's guilt, things like that. But in part two, we'll cover additional information about the crime that was released in the months after CO Burger's arrest. His plea deal and speculation on a potential motive. Because like we said up front, right, That's a big thing in this case. What was his motive? And why did he select the victims? He did. Yeah. So that's it for part one, but we got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[B]

Let's hear it.

[D]

Hey, Mike. Thank you. This is Val from Delaware. I've been listening to you guys for a few months now. Started listening to the old stuff and the new stuff, so I switched back and forth, but I just wanted to call a text. Christmas Day, it's the first year. My two kids, who are 21 and 19, are doing their own thing for the rest of the day. So I'm going home, going to listen to True crying all the time and reminisce about my fiance. You all have gotten me through some hard days with him and my dad being gone here at the holidays, so I just wanted to thank you guys and wish you a Merry Christmas because you're really gay getting me through, so. And I also hope you all have a happy New Year. But have a great one. Bye.

[A]

Oh, thanks so much for calling in. We appreciate you. We love you.

[B]

We do.

[A]

And glad. I'm glad the. The podcast can help. I know that, you know, the holidays are a really tough time.

[B]

They're emotional.

[A]

They are.

[B]

And if we can help out in any way, we're glad we can.

[A]

Makes us feel good. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime all the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sa.