The Idaho College Murders Part 2

Summary

True Crime All The Time (TCATT)

The Idaho College Murders Part 2 (Episode 467)

Hosts: Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson
Date: January 12, 2026

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Overview

In the second and concluding part of their deep dive into the Idaho College Murders, Mike Ferguson and Mike Gibson dissect new information following Bryan Kohberger’s arrest, unraveling the prosecution and defense strategies, exploring troubling pre-murder behaviors, and detailing the wrenching impact on the victims’ families. The hosts evaluate the plea deal arrangements, scrutinize potential motives, and emphasize lingering unanswered questions—particularly the “why” behind the tragedy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Case Recap & New Developments

• Episode Focus: Details emerging post-arrest, Kohberger’s legal moves, plea deal, motives, and aftermath.
• Highlights from Part 1: Previously, the hosts reviewed the victims’ lives and the early investigation.

2. Kohberger’s Pre-Crime Behavior and Evidence

• Cell Phone Data:
  • Kohberger’s phone was near the victims’ house 12 times before the murders and the morning after, often late at night ([06:39]).
  • Red Flag: Phone turned off between 2:47–4:48am during homicide window—“a big red flag” ([08:07] Mike Ferguson).
• Court Documents & Arrest:
  • Kohberger, criminology major, entered a not guilty plea via silence on May 22, 2023 ([09:19]).
  • At arraignment, judge entered "not guilty" for him; hosts see it as possible control tactic.

3. Legal Strategy & Defense Tactics

• Kohberger’s Alibi:
  • Claimed he was driving alone, but provided no specifics or witnesses ([11:05] Ann Taylor, defense attorney).
  • Host Commentary: An “ironclad alibi” would need independent corroboration; “if you’re just out driving, who can help corroborate your alibi?” ([12:40] Mike Ferguson).
• Demolition of Crime Scene:
  • Victims' home demolished in Dec 2023; families were divided ([13:37]).
  • Pros: Helps community heal ([15:31] University President); Cons: Families felt it destroyed evidence before trial ([15:00]).
• Change of Venue:
  • Trial moved to Boise due to publicity ([16:28]).

4. Key Courtroom Battles

• Motions Lost by Defense:
  • Death penalty not dismissed; DNA evidence remained admissible ([16:32]).
• Bushy Eyebrows Evidence:
  • Dispute over a selfie and survivor’s memory—unique focus on physical trait ([17:43]).
• Challenging Survivors:
  • Dylan Mortensen’s account targeted by defense for inconsistencies.
• Amazon Purchases & Knife Sheath:
  • Kohberger researched and purchased K-bar knife months prior; sheath found at the scene had his DNA ([18:46]).
  • Defense floated possibility it was planted ([23:20]); hosts skeptical.

5. Mental Health & Death Penalty Debate

• Autism Spectrum Diagnosis:
  • Defense cited diagnosis as reason to avoid death penalty; prosecution saw no decreased culpability ([24:21]).
  • “He wasn’t a dumb individual…he was pretty intelligent” ([24:45] Mike Ferguson).

6. Technology and Digital Forensics

• Digital Footprints:
  • Kohberger searched for info on sociopathy, pornography with disturbing keywords, and news about the murders ([26:49]-[27:30]).
  • 23 visits to cell tower near victims’ home in the months prior—“seems like stalking” ([27:47]).

7. Plea Deal and Family Reactions

• Guilty Plea:
  • Just before trial, Kohberger pleads guilty to avoid death penalty; sentenced to four consecutive life terms ([30:52]).
  • He agreed to waive right to appeal. Plea spared families a traumatic trial, but not all were satisfied with the terms.
  • Goncalves family demanded more—confession, murder weapon, answers—felt excluded; “Our family is frustrated…” ([32:30] Goncalves family statement).
• Prosecutor’s Rationale:
  • Sought closure and avoidance of decades of appeals ([56:03] Bill Thompson).

8. Impact Statements & Emotional Fallout

• Sentencing Hearing:
  • Zanna Kernodle’s father: “You would have had to deal with me” ([41:25]).
  • Kaylee’s mother: “Hell will be waiting. You are nothing. …your fellow inmates are anxiously awaiting your arrival, homeboy.” ([41:50]).
  • Survivor Dylan Mortensen: “Kohberger took away my ability to trust the world…my body reliving everything over and over again. I was barely 19…” ([43:57]).
  • Kaylee’s sister Olivia: “They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence. They’re everything you could never be.” ([46:01]).
  • Zanna's aunt forgave Kohberger because “I could no longer live with the hate” ([48:49]).
  • Kohberger declined to address the court ([49:12]).

9. Stalking, Motive, and Unanswered Questions

• Victims’ Prior Concerns:
  • Kaylee mentioned being watched and suspected a stalker ([51:21]).
  • Multiple WSU students reported Kohberger stalked them—showing up daily at workplaces, peeping through windows, knowing personal details, repeated unwelcome contact ([68:15]-[69:39]).
• No Clear Motive or Connection:
  • Investigators found no evidence Kohberger knew the victims; no social media links, pictures, or communications ([62:59]).
  • Hard for families and public to understand “why.”
  • Prosecutors and investigators highlight possible serial predator motives, psychological gratification.

10. Reflections and Unresolved Issues

• Technology’s Role:
  • Hosts emphasize modern tech (cell data, DNA) made solving the case possible; contrast with pre-digital era.
• Ongoing Debate:
  • Despite resolution, questions about motive, target(s), and full details remain.
  • Host Mike Ferguson: “Anytime you have that, even in a solved case, you’re still going to have people debating it” ([75:28]).
• Family Disappointment:
  • Frustration at plea deal terms and lack of full disclosure ([76:06]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cell Phone Evidence:
  “When they find a situation like this where the person’s phone was turned off during the time that the murder occurred, it’s a big red flag.”
  — Mike Ferguson ([08:07])

• On Defense’s Alibi:
  “If you’re just out driving, who can help corroborate your alibi?”
  — Mike Ferguson ([12:40])

• On Kohberger’s Courtroom Silence:
  “Maybe it’s the, ‘I’m taking control. I want to be the center of attention.’”
  — Mike Ferguson ([09:49])

• On DNA Evidence:
  “This knife sheath is a real damaging piece of evidence for your client.”
  — Mike Ferguson ([23:07])

• On Family Frustration:
  “The county should be ashamed of its prosecutor’s office…given families just one day to coordinate and appear at the courthouse for a plea after more than two years. This is how it concludes, with a secretive deal. And a hurried effort to close the case without any input from the victims families…”
  — Goncalves family statement ([32:30])

• On Impact of the Crimes:
  “He tried to take everything from me. My friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives, but I will continue trying to be like them, to make them proud. Living is how I honor them.”
  — Dylan Mortensen ([43:57])

• On Olivia Goncalves’ Statement:
  “They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence. They’re everything you could never be — loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave and powerful.”
  — Olivia Goncalves ([46:01])

• On Lingering Uncertainty:
  “He’s the only one that has the why, and oftentimes that why, it may only make sense to him.”
  — Lt. Darren Gilbertson ([54:12])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [06:39] – Kohberger’s phone activity and crime scene proximity
• [09:19] – Kohberger’s plea and courtroom behavior
• [11:05] – Defense's vague alibi claims
• [13:37] – Demolition of the victims’ home
• [16:28] – Change of trial venue due to publicity
• [18:46] – Knife purchase, Amazon activity, and K-bar sheath
• [23:20] – DNA on the sheath, defense’s counterargument
• [24:21] – Autism spectrum arguments over the death penalty
• [27:47] – 23 prior visits near victims’ home; “seems like stalking”
• [30:52] – Kohberger pleads guilty, plea deal details
• [32:30] – Goncalves family’s public statement of disappointment
• [41:25] – Victim impact statement from Zanna’s father
• [43:57] – Dylan Mortensen’s survivor statement
• [46:01] – Olivia Goncalves’ powerful address
• [51:21] – Kaylee’s suspicions of being stalked
• [54:12] – Law enforcement’s reflection on motive
• [62:59] – Investigators fail to find links to victims
• [68:15] – Reports from WSU students about Kohberger stalking them

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Tone and Style

The hosts maintain a serious yet conversational tone, often inserting dark humor or sarcasm, but always returning to the gravity of the crime and respect for the victims.

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Conclusion

TCATT’s meticulous coverage in Part 2 lays bare both the forensic case and the human wreckage left behind. While Kohberger’s conviction brings technical closure, the motive and meaning behind the horror remain shrouded—a fittingly grim reality that underscores the hosts’ assertion: “True crime reminds us of one thing. Life can change in an instant.” ([38:06])

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For more from Mike and Gibby:
Visit [True Crime All The Time's website / podcast players] for past episodes, and join their Patreon or social channels for extra content.

Transcript

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[Mike Ferguson]

Foreign. And welcome to episode 467 of the True Crime all the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, I'm doing good. How about you?

[Mike Ferguson]

I am doing great. We just talked about it on our Patreon weekly previews. We're in the process of sitting setting up a new video studio here and we're Going to do more videos, more YouTube, and an extra episode that's going to come out sometime during the middle of the week.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's going to be nice.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. People have been asking for more. More content. We're going to try to give it to them. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Jennifer Field.

[Mike Gibson]

What's going on, Jennifer?

[Mike Ferguson]

Mark.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, Mark.

[Mike Ferguson]

Alice.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, Alice.

[Mike Ferguson]

Corey.

[Mike Gibson]

L. What's happened?

[Mike Ferguson]

L. Cindy.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, there's Cindy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Rayla Padilla. Mana Torbett.

[Mike Gibson]

Manna.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, like manna from heaven.

[Mike Gibson]

I don't know that, but okay. Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

DB0789. What's up, DB Talia. Water.

[Mike Gibson]

Hey, thanks, Water.

[Mike Ferguson]

War Doll.

[Mike Gibson]

What's up, Wardle?

[Mike Ferguson]

Valerie Hicks jumped out at her highest level.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Hicks.

[Mike Ferguson]

And last but not least, Vicki Lloyd.

[Mike Gibson]

There's Vicki.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then if we go back into the vault this week, we selected Jessica Cruz.

[Mike Gibson]

Thanks, Cruz.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. So we appreciate all the Patreon support that we get. You know, I was speaking about some of these new things that are going to be rolling out early this year. Now would be a good time, if you haven't already, to, you know, subscribe to our YouTube channel, get on Instagram with us.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because that's where a lot of the stuff is, is going to be coming out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Do that, Facebook, all that stuff.

[Mike Gibson]

And if you're feeling really good, join our Patreon.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. Because everything. Every week you're gonna see something from the new studio. We have an episode out right now on True Crime all the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about Cheryl Warner. Cheryl was murdered after opening her door to someone whom she thought was a stranger in need of assistance. And now, 20 years later, the case remains unsolved.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like one of those horror flicks you see, you know, where you go to the door, it's late at night, and you see somebody that's, you know, saying they need help. And what do you do? You decide, let's open the door and help?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah, in a horror movie, that decision always turns out to be wrong.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

But you and I talked about it on Patreon. You know, what do you do in some of these situations where you want to be a nice person?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

You want to help someone out, but there's an inherent danger in doing so. And I'm sure we'll talk about it more in the Unsolved. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this second and last part on the Idaho murders? I am. In part one, we covered the lives of the victims and how the early stages of the investigation unfolded. In part two, we'll cover additional information about the crime that was released in the months after Coburger's arrest, his plea deal, and speculation on a potential motive. You know, another thing we talked about on Patreon is just this week, people were sending us links about things that are just coming out.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

One of them was an article about Coburger's sister.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Who apparently told him, hey, when you're going out, you need to be careful. There is a lunatic, a serial killer on the loose. The whole time, she had no idea she was talking to the killer.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

Who happened to be her brother.

[Mike Gibson]

How scary to learn that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Court documents were released in January 2023 showing that the suspect's phone was near the victim's house at least 12 times before the murders, going all the way back to August 2022. All of those times, except one, were late at night or early in the morning. The morning after the murders, Kohberger's phone was near the house between 9:12am and 9:21am According to his cell phone data, Coburger's phone was tracked heading to Moscow before the attack. And at the time the driver of the Elantra returned to Pullman, the phone was off from 2:47 to 4:48am, which is consistent with Coburger attempting to conceal his location during the quadruple homicide. And, you know, this is a case that's not that old. Although I did say it's hard to believe that it's been as many years as it has since this occurred. And let's not forget, right, he was a criminology major, or, you know, he had studied and even obtained some degrees in criminology. You got to know that the cell phone data is important.

[Mike Gibson]

It's going to be one of the first things they look at if they.

[Mike Ferguson]

Can figure out a suspect.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe he just thought, well, they're never going to figure out it's me because I. I don't really have a connection. And we'll get into some of that. But, you know, when they find a situation like this where the person's phone was turned off during the time that the murder occurred, it's a big red flag.

[Mike Gibson]

How else can you look at that? Right?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, yeah, because first of all, how many of us turn our phone off? Probably not many, because, you know, how you gonna play your little bedazzled games or whatever? You know, I don't know what my wife's playing on her iPhone, but how are you gonna play those games when your phone's off and there's really no reason to turn it off unless you're trying to save the battery or, you know, even if you're taking a nap, you can just put it on silent.

[Mike Gibson]

I say my phone only really goes off anymore when it runs out of a battery. When the battery dies out, my phone, that's the only time it goes down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. You are supposed to charge them on a consistent basis.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I know. Apple and Samsung and other makers prefer you not do that. That way you go through the phone quicker and have to get a new one.

[Mike Ferguson]

At his arraignment on May 22, 2023, Kohberger chose to stand silent, and the judge entered a not guilty plea on his behalf. So kind of interesting, right? Normally you see, how do you plead? The person says, not guilty, guilty, whatever. He just didn't say anything. So the judge had to enter a not guilty plea for him.

[Mike Gibson]

Sometimes I think there's a sense of.

[Mike Ferguson]

Courtroom drama, you know, on the part of the perpetrator. Yeah, yeah. And maybe it's the I'm taking control. I want to be the center of attention. A lot of times I think these people have lost all control at this point. Once they're locked up, they have very little control. They're told when to eat, they're told when to go here, go there. And so maybe they feel the need to act out and exercise whatever control they can. Sometimes that's in the courtroom. The court filing on August 2nd revealed Kohberger's alibi. He claimed he was out driving alone that night. His lawyer argued that the defense couldn't be more specific about what witnesses would say to back up that claim at the time. But that would emerge amid examination of the discovery materials and at trial.

[Mike Gibson]

Is that like saying, we have an alibi? We really not done putting putting it together and trying to figure out what kind of stuff we can make up. So we're going to say this for now and then, you know, come back later.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think you could look at it like that. You could also look at it as they don't want to lay all their cards out on the table right ahead of time. Coburger's attorney, Ann Taylor, wrote, Mr. Kohberger has long had a habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12th and into November 13th, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time. At this point, there's Not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment of the hours between late November 12 and early November 13, 2022. He was out driving during the late night in early morning hours of November 12th through the 13th of 2022. And you know, when you talk about an alibi. Yeah. Sometimes people have pretty ironclad alibis. They were a thousand miles away, and they were with 50 people, and all of those people can vouch for them. Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Pretty solid.

[Mike Ferguson]

Pretty solid. But. And I think you and I have talked about this before, if you're just at home by yourself, that's not really a great alibi, because who can corroborate it? And I think it kind of goes along with this. If you're just out driving, who can help corroborate your alibi?

[Mike Gibson]

And for somebody like me, you know, I'm alone a lot, so that's a problem for me. If something ever would happen and someone would try to accuse me, I would have a hard time getting somebody to validate my alibi.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, you would. Yeah. And when you say happen, you mean happen again.

[Mike Gibson]

Well.

[Mike Ferguson]

The prosecution had asked whether the defense would claim Kohberger had an alibi and the specific location where he claimed to be. This is because Idaho requires the defense to present the prosecution with notice of an intent to run an alibi defense. The Victim's home at 1122 King Road was demolished on December 28, 2023, after the property owner donated the home to the university.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I don't know what you're going to do with it after that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's probably going to be tough. You're. Are you going to be able to get four, six, eight kids to rent that out for the semester? Probably not. But, you know, it's also, I think, a good thing that this person did, because then it could be demolished, which to me, is important. I think to a lot of people. What you really don't want is this symbol of where something happened to stand.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, one of the ones that jumps out at me is the apartment complex where Dahmer lived. There was such a push to demolish this place where, let's face it, a lot of young men lost their lives.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

Not to mention the fact that he kept parts of those young men in his freezer, his fridge, barrels that were inside the apartment. It's hard to forget that stuff. But even harder, I think, if the place where it happened is still there.

[Mike Gibson]

Oh, I agree. I remember when they finally tore down the House. When they finally tore down the house Gacy operated out of.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, that's a big one.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

The Gonzalves family was against demolishing the house, arguing it would destroy one of the most critical pieces of evidence in the case before a trial date had been set. And I actually get that normally, you know, the demolishing of the place where it happened kind of occurs down the road. After everything is said and done.

[Mike Gibson]

Right. You feel good about the case. Things are wrapped up. Okay.

[Mike Ferguson]

Sentences passed, all of that. So, yeah, now that is a little strange. University president Scott Green said, while we appreciated the emotional connection some family members of the victims may have to this house, it is time for its removal and to allow the collective healing of our community to continue. So I see both sides of it now, as far as it, you know, being critical to the trial. I mean, they've gone through it with a fine tooth comb. They've gotten everything out of there. I assume that they possibly could. Right. On September 12, 2024, a judge ruled that the trial would be moved to Boise, siding with the defense that Lata county was tainted by pretrial publicity. And to be honest, this was a case that was covered extensively.

[Mike Gibson]

It really was. So I get that. I understand why they wanted to do that.

[Mike Ferguson]

In October, the trial was pushed back from June to August 2025. Defense attorneys sought to toss out the death pony and get DNA evidence excluded, but they lost both motions. And those are two pretty big motions to lose, right? The death penalty and the DNA evidence. The DNA evidence probably being one of the biggest things that could get your client convicted.

[Mike Gibson]

So it's a big win for the prosecution.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely. In March 2025, prosecutors sought to have a now infamous selfie taken by Kohberger shown at trial because it could help a jury determine whether he has bushy eyebrows as described by one of the surviving roommates. And it was said that this selfie was taken just hours after the murders. The defense argued that evidence referring to bushy eyebrows was. Would be unfairly prejudicial. I don't know that I've ever heard so much fighting back and forth in court regarding bushy eyebrows.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it's one of the things that was brought up.

[Mike Ferguson]

One of many. Right. There are a lot of things brought up in trial. It's like a chess game. Chess match. Each side kind of positioning and then attacking, countering. I kind of liken it to a chess match. The defense also questioned Dylan Mortensen's recollection of events and inconsistencies in her statements, noting several weeks after the murders, DM thought that the person she saw was a fireman. In her mind, DM thought that the intruder went out of the backsliding door, but she doesn't know if he actually went out the back door. Now the defense is going to have to question try to poke holes right in the survivor's account or accounts of what happened. It's a sad fact, but it's true.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, they're going to try to discredit her every which way they can.

[Mike Ferguson]

Which a lot of times comes off as, you know, really mean. But, you know, they are trying to do their job. Some of them can go overboard. Investigators obtained a search warrant that allowed law enforcement to seize Kohberger's customer Click Activity pertaining to knives and accessories from Amazon. Prosecutors argued that Kohberger's Amazon activity showed he purchased a K bar knife eight months prior to the murders. The knife sheath left at the crime scene had K bar, USMC and the Marine Corps eagle globe, an anchor insignia stamped on the outside of it. And the knife sheath is a big part of this case. Right. We said it. They found DNA on this thing.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I love the knife. You know that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I have multiple versions of that K bars, right? You bought me one for Christmas a few years ago. It's a great night.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

I wish someone would get a search warrant for my wife's Amazon activity because I think it's bordering on criminal.

[Mike Gibson]

I think she has a problem.

[Mike Ferguson]

I, I don't know what the exact charge would be, but I'd like to see something done.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, the fact that they have a Amazon driver and a UPS driver solely for your house alone, it's over the top. It is, it is.

[Mike Ferguson]

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[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, it is. So you have to find a way to try to discredit it. But I don't know if the way they're going about it's going to work.

[Mike Ferguson]

In April 2025, his lawyers revealed that he had recently been diagnosed with Autism Spectrum disorder. And we mentioned it. Right. Kohberger was facing the death penalty, but his lawyers argued he should not be put to death because he's on the autism spectrum and he has ocd. And his reactions at trial may be misinterpreted. His flat affect was attributed to Autism spectrum disorder and I think that is something that can happen sure can. It can also be something that psychopaths, I think, or sociopaths exhibit a flat affect because they just really have no emotions, some of them.

[Mike Gibson]

But at the end of the day, if you're found guilty of doing what has happened, then this or not this, you deserve the death penalty in this state.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think the prosecutors agreed with you. They responded that Coburger was diagnosed with the least severe form of autism that comes without accompanying intellectual or language impairment, and that he failed to show his diagnosis would in any way make him less culpable for murder.

[Mike Gibson]

He wasn't a dumb individual.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. From what I've seen of him, I would not consider him to be low functioning.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

I mean, let's face it, this is a guy who got an associates and then a bachelor's and then a master's. I think he was going for his PhD. So, I mean, he was pretty intelligent. Now, that being said, some individuals with autism can be very intelligent, but then have problems in other areas of their life. In May 2025, the public learned that Kohberger's browsing history showed dozens of pictures of female students at Washington State and the University of Idaho. Some of them were close friends with or followers of the murdered students. According to NBC, Kohberger was invited to a pool party in Moscow on July 9, which was verified by three witnesses. His phone data showed he was in Moscow that same day after dark. Over the next month, he took multiple trips to Moscow, and his phone connected with a cell tower, providing coverage to within 100 meters of the victim's house.

[Mike Gibson]

Fairly close.

[Mike Ferguson]

It is. And it does make it seem you have these pictures of people who are friends with the victims. Now, it seems as though on a number of occasions he was near the victim's home. But what was he doing? Was he casing?

[Mike Gibson]

Most likely.

[Mike Ferguson]

I think if you're the prosecution, you would try to make that argument. In late September 2022, Kohberger made the following search, sociopathic traits in college students. In October, he searched for pornography containing the keywords drugged and sleeping.

[Mike Gibson]

Clearly must have been something he fantasized about.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I would say that's 100% accurate. On October 14, Kohberger was pulled over for a traffic violation. It was the second time he'd been stopped in seven weeks. Five days later, he searched. Can psychopaths behave pro Socially? So, I mean, you know, some of these searches, obviously you have the pornography searches, but some of the other ones seem to point to the fact that he thought that he was a sociopath, a psychopath or that he knew he.

[Mike Gibson]

Was and he wanted some answers.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, maybe. Six days before the murders, Kohberger's phone connected with the same cell tower close to the victim's home. In total, Gibbs, he visited 23 times over a four month period.

[Mike Gibson]

It seems like stalking.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know what else you would call it. Stalking. Casing. Now, could it be that he's just in that area looking for victims? Or is it specific to this house and each and every time he's trying to gain more information?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, only he knows that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I don't know that for sure, but 23 times over a four month period, that's a lot when you go to a different school.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I mean, it's almost six times a month.

[Mike Ferguson]

I like the math you're doing there.

[Mike Gibson]

Some people struggle with that.

[Mike Ferguson]

After the murders, Kohberger's phone connected with a cell tower south of Moscow. At 4:48am 90 minutes later, a call was made in the Pullman area to. To a phone registered to an account belonging to Kohberger's father. At least three calls were made to that same number that morning. After briefly traveling to Moscow just after 9am Kohberger returned to his apartment in Pullman and took a selfie at 10:31am with a thumbs up pose in the bathroom mirror. Okay. You know, people take selfies. I am not one of those people.

[Mike Gibson]

You are not.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't know why you would take a selfie of yourself with a thumbs up pose in the mirror.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe he felt good about what he just did and being a psychopath, thought it would be cool to do a little thumbs up selfie.

[Mike Ferguson]

Maybe. Maybe I, you know, I. I can't make sense of some of this stuff. After the murders, Coburger searched University of Idaho murders. He also searched for a program about Ted Bundy and watched a YouTube video about the Idaho victims. So, I mean, that or those things in and of themselves don't make you guilty. But I think when you're adding it all together, the timing of his phone being turned off, all the times that he traveled within, you know, a very small radius of the house where these people were murdered, and then he's making some of these searches. On June 30, 2025, just weeks before his scheduled trial, Brian Coburger agreed to plead guilty to all charges. Four counts of first degree murder and one count of burglary. He would be spared from the death penalty and sentenced to four consecutive life sentences for murder and 10 years for burglary. He agreed to Waive his right to an appeal. Prosecutors met with the families three days before the plea was signed and called it a sincere attempt to seek justice for the families. What do you make of the plea deal, Gibbs?

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I do think it spares the family from going through a full blown trial.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

And reliving the horrific night.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

As long as they're okay with that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think that's the big question, you know, are they going to be okay with him spending the rest of his life in prison, probably, you know, never getting out, he's going to die in prison, or do they think that's too good for him? We want him to get the death penalty.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, I'd be torn on that because I would think in one way, him having to live every day in a restrictive prison is going to be harder on him instead of giving him the easy out.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, people have very differing opinions on that. Kaylee Goncalves parents accused prosecutors of rushing. They contacted prosecutors the day after the plea was signed, asking for the terms to be amended to include additional requirements such as a full confession and the location of the murder weapon. Prosecutors turned down the request, explaining that an offer already accepted by the defendant could not ethically be changed.

[Mike Gibson]

But I understand why they would want that. Right? I mean, go ahead and have him tell us that he did it, why he did it, and why we're at it. Let's get the actual murder weapon. That way we can seal this whole thing up nice and pretty before we allow him to get this sweet deal for himself.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, if you're taking the death penalty off the table and that's what the perpetrator wants, you would think at the very least you would require that person to give a full confession and then also the location of the murder weapon. I don't think that's too much to ask as part of the plea deal. The Gonzalez family said in a statement published by abc. They vaguely mentioned a possible plea on Friday without seeking our input, and presented the plea on Sunday. The county should be ashamed of its prosecutor's office. Four wonderful young people lost their lives. Yet the victims families were treated as opponents from the outset. We weren't even called about the plea. We received an email with a letter attached. That's how Lata County's prosecutor's office treats murder victims families adding insulted injury. They're rushing the plea, giving families just one day to coordinate and appear at the courthouse for a plea on July 2 after more than two years. This is how it concludes, with a secretive Deal. And a hurried effort to close the case without any input from the victims families on the plea's details. Our family is frustrated right now and that will subside and we'll come together as always and deal with the reality that we face moving forward.

[Mike Gibson]

I understand. And they are frustrated, rightfully so. I think it's wrong to send an email. It's so impersonal. I mean, you're the prosecutor's office up until this point. I'm sure you've been, you know, contacting them by phone, having conversations with them. What's the rush? Why can't you go ahead and have that conversation with them on a Monday? Or have them all come in and say, this is what we're thinking? How do you feel about it? This is what we're going to do. But instead, just to move forward with it. I feel like it's. It's the wrong way to go. And I know we've joked about in the past that. That movie where that Scottish actors in it. I forget his name.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, you mean that one Scottish actor.

[Mike Gibson]

That one Scottish actor. Gerard.

[Mike Ferguson]

Gerard Butler.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

Okay.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Where he plays the dad that's upset.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, law abiding citizen. Yeah. Okay. We'll get to it eventually.

[Mike Gibson]

We always do. But I can, you know, it kind of reminds me a little bit like that, like, you know, you didn't give us the opportunity to voice how we would like to see this go down.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, my thought is, and I don't know if I'm correct or not, but there's a reason why they just got an email. They didn't get a call because it sounds like they were just trying to push this thing through.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure they were.

[Mike Ferguson]

And a call would have muddied the waters with opinions that they probably didn't want to hear. But I'm with you. I think this bush league right, to not reach out to the families and say, hey, here's what we're thinking about doing. What are your thoughts now? At the end of the day, they don't have to do what the family wants.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

But to not even give them the courtesy of a call or even better, an in person meeting. Yeah, to me that's kind of chicken shit. I'll be honest.

[Mike Gibson]

You owe the family that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yes, I agree.

[Commercial Announcer]

Not.

[Mike Gibson]

And not just rush, just because you want to get this case out of the media and get life back to normal and you're in your county.

[Mike Ferguson]

On July 2, 2025, Bryan Kohberger admitted to the murders at his change of plea hearing, marking the first time that he spoke. During court proceedings since his arrest, Judge Steven Hippler asked if he killed and murdered each of the victims. Coburger responded, yes, each time. He was also forced to say that he was guilty for each count of murder. After the plea, the prosecution presented an outline of evidence that would have been used at trial and revealed that they still did not know if Kohberger intended to kill all four students when he entered the home. Kohberger entered the home through a sliding glass door to the kitchen at the back. He went to the third floor and killed Madison and Kaylee, leaving behind the knife sheath. As he was coming down the stairs or leaving, he encountered Zanna and killed her. Then Ethan, who was asleep in her bedroom. As he sped away from the area, he almost lost control of his car. According to cnn, Prosecutor Bill Thompson said, we will not represent that he intended to commit all of the murders that he did that night, but we know that that is what resulted in that. He then killed intentionally, willfully, deliberately, with premeditation and with malice aforethought, Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Ethan Chapin, and Zanna Kernodle. And my thought is, Gibbs, unless he comes out and says, yes, I intended to kill these four people, there's no way for the authorities to know. No, the only thing they do know is that he did it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, all we know is he went there that night and what happened, happened.

[Mike Ferguson]

And I think that's one of the things that people are still trying to figure out and grapple with. You know, was there one person? Was there two individuals that were the targets? But, you know, other people were killed because he encountered them or. Or he thought he needed to leave no witnesses behind. True crime reminds us of one thing. Life can change in an instant. And while we can't control everything, we can make things easier for the people we love if the unexpected happens with the Knockbox, the next of kin box Most families spend over 500 hours trying to untangle an estate. And after someone passes, all while grieving, the Knockbox was created to remove that burden. It makes organizing all of your documents simple, so you can leave behind memories, not a mess. Proper planning is a gift of love, and the Knock box helps ensure your will. Financial info, even plans for your pet is in one safe place, ready when your family needs it Most. Go to thenockbox.com and use code TCAT today to to save 16% on the knockbox of your choosing. That's the nokbox.com code TCATT at checkout to save 16%. You know folks, for most of my life, banks have been pretty much all the same. Sometimes a little stuffy. You know, they have their fees, but Chime is changing the way people bank. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees. And their app is amazing because they unlock smarter banking for everyday people with products like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and allows you to get paid up to two days early with direct deposits. You can also earn up to 3.5% APY on savings. That's eight times higher than a traditional bank and they're rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. If you need to talk to someone, you're going to get a real human 24. 7. This is the way that banking should have been all along, and my younger self really would have benefited from Chime. Chime's not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.comtcat that is chime.comtcatt Chime.

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[Mike Ferguson]

The families delivered victim impact statements at the July 23 sentencing hearing. Jeff Kernodle revealed at sentencing that he almost went to the house that night, but he had been drinking and Zanna told him not to drink and drive. He told Coburger, you would have had to deal with me. And I feel like this statement by Jeff is something you or I or most ads would say.

[Mike Gibson]

Absolutely.

[Mike Ferguson]

You know, that is if they weren't trying to jump over the railing to get to Brian Kohberger. Kaylee's mother, Christy Gonzalez, told Kohberger, Hell will be waiting. You are nothing. May you continue to live your life in misery. You are officially the property of the state of Idaho, where your fellow inmates are anxiously awaiting your arrival, homeboy.

[Mike Gibson]

And were they ever. I think a few of them already made him their personal puppet.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, That's a disturbing picture, but I like what she says because she basically is coming out and saying that really bad things are going to happen to him in prison without coming out and saying it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

They're anxiously awaiting your arrival, but we can all read between the lines, and what she's saying is, you're in deep trouble.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I think it's her way of saying. And I don't cuss often on here, but I think it's her way of saying, fuck you.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, you don't drop the F bomb a lot, but I think it's kind of warranted here. I mean, what this guy did was so incredibly heinous. Right. There's no way around that. Dylan Mortensen described the debilitating panic attack she suffers, saying, sometimes I drop to the floor with my heart racing, convinced something is very wrong. It's my body reliving everything over and over again. Kohberger took away my ability to trust the world around me and shattered me in places I didn't even know could break. I was barely 19 when he did this. I should have been figuring out who I was. I should have been figuring out the college experience. Instead, I was forced to learn how to survive the unimaginable. I couldn't be left alone. I had to sleep in my mom's room because I was too terrified to close my eyes. She called Kohberger a hollow vessel, something less than human. A body without empathy, without remorse. She said, he tried to take everything from me. My friends, my safety, my identity, my future. He took their lives, but I will continue trying to be like them, to make them proud. Living is how I honor them.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, that's really tough to hear.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. It's also very emotional.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Because you really get a sense of not only what this young woman went through that night, but what she's going through now and will go through, most likely, Gibbs, for the rest of her life.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, unfortunately. But it sounds like she has the right thought, you know, she's going to try to live her life the best she can and move forward, and in.

[Mike Ferguson]

Doing so, you know, will honor her friends. Bethany Funk's friend, Emily Allant, read a statement on her behalf. Bethany described the guilt she feels over not calling 911 right away. She said, I was so frantic that morning and scared to death not knowing what had happened. And when I made the 911 call, I couldn't even get out the words. The crime left her terrified and fearful that someone will try to hurt her and her family.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, I remember Talking about the 911 call, you know, and the delay behind that. And unless you're in her shoes, we don't know what we would do in that same scenario. Would we wait a little bit? Would we jump right away and make the 911 call? I don't know what I would do.

[Mike Ferguson]

No. I don't think anybody does. Unless you're in that exact situation with those exact people in the house and those relationships. Because there's different dynamics in every relationship, friend group. There's just so many variables that go into it. But I can also understand how there would be a lot of guilt there.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. And it would weigh on you 100%.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, absolutely. Kaylee's sister, Olivia Gonzalves, memorized her speech so that she could look co burger in the eyes when she delivered it. She later told abc, I was fueled by seeing the rage on his face. Man, was he mad. That was obviously a big point of why I did what I did to make him feel small.

[Mike Gibson]

Love it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Olivia said in court, my sister Kaylee and her best friend Maddie were not yours to take. They were not yours to study, to stalk, or to silence. They're everything you could never be. Loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave and powerful. She concluded by saying that if Kohberger hadn't attacked the students in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked your fucking ass. And you said, love it. I would have to echo that sentiment. I mean, first of all, you only get one shot at this. Delivering this victim impact statement. It sounds like Olivia spent a lot of time, and I'm sure a lot of victims, families do, but she spent a lot of time crafting this very carefully, also memorizing it so that she wouldn't have to break Bryan Kohberger's gaze. Almost as if I'm staring you down, I'm staring through your soul as I tell you what I really think of you. What I thought was powerful was when she said they were everything you could never be. Loved, accepted, vibrant, accomplished, brave and powerful.

[Mike Gibson]

Do you think these statements are somewhat therapeutic?

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, I think they're very therapeutic for the victim's families.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Unfortunately, my honest thought is that I think for most of the perpetrators, this stuff kind of goes in one ear and out the other. You know, I think they probably try to shut it out. And if they are truly sociopaths or psychopaths, it probably doesn't bother them. They're not losing any sleep at night.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe they should play it 24 hours a day in their cell non stop so they have to hear it again and again and again. For the rest of their time, they're in prison.

[Mike Ferguson]

Either that or the Rex west album that you put out, because that is excruciating pain. It might be deemed cruel and unusual punishment, to be honest with you.

[Mike Gibson]

I have heard that some interrogation units have used it for other purposes then instead of just listening to it for.

[Mike Ferguson]

Enjoyment, to try to make people cry.

[Mike Gibson]

Especially the I'm a little bit country, I'm a little bit rock and roll duet that I do between me and Rex, you know, Gibby and Rex going back and forth.

[Mike Ferguson]

You playing both parts. Yeah. But, you know, getting back to these victim impact statements, I, I do think, you know, these, these young people who lost their lives, they were amazing people. Right. We talked about it. They had a lot of friends that had a lot of loved ones who did. Bryan Kohberger have nobody. And Olivia, she is really giving it to him to tell him just how insignificant she thinks he really is. Now, he may not care about that one bit and probably doesn't, but kudos to her because I do think it's very important for these family members of the victims to be able to say what they want to say. Zanna's aunt, Kim Kernodle, told Kohberger she forgave him because I could no longer live with the hate. She added, anytime you want to talk and tell me what happened, I'm here. No judgment. Kohberger said, I respectively decline when asked if he wanted to make a statement, and I don't know what statement he's going to make, he could turn around, he could say he was sorry to the family members of the victims, but I think it would be a lie, and I think they know it would be a lie and it wouldn't mean anything to them. Additional documents were released within hours of sentencing, revealing that in the weeks before the murders, Kaylee Goncalves thought she was being stopped. She told her roommate she saw a man she didn't know staring at her when she took her dog outside. Kaylee mentioned having a stalker to a friend on September 11. She said something about receiving something in the mail and getting a strange message on Facebook. On November 4, the residents of the house came home at 11am to find the door open and loose on its hinges. Kaylee was away at the time, and Zanna's father fixed the door for them. Now, it's still unclear whether these events were connected to the murders in any way, but kind of hard not to think they are. Yeah, you know, is it one of those cases where at the time you don't make a ton of stuff out of it. But obviously, knowing what you know later on, things seem a little more sinister. Now, Kaylee mentioned that she thought she had a stalker before this even happened.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

So that definitely could have had something or some connection to the murders.

[Mike Gibson]

You know, I really didn't have a good understanding of stalking until that case that happened with the actress Rebecca Schaefer.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. And we did that very early on in the podcast. And I'll tell you, there have been a lot of stalking cases with celebrities. Right. Celebrities are more likely to get stalked than regular people, I think. Well, I don't know if they are or not, but a lot of people get attached to celebrities because they think they know them from seeing them on TV or in movies. But that was a very scary case.

[Mike Gibson]

It really was.

[Mike Ferguson]

And she was such a young, beautiful, up and cominging actress that it was just horrible.

[Mike Gibson]

So I'm not really surprised that we see more stalking cases with the amount of social media out there. I think people. Stalkers find these individuals on social media and feel like they know them more than they really do.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and that's a great point. Right back when Rebecca Schaefer was killed, there was no Facebook.

[Mike Gibson]

No.

[Mike Ferguson]

So who was putting themselves out there? The most People on television, people in movies. You would see them in magazines. But now you're seeing everybody's lot. Yeah. On social media except for mine, because I don't get on social media. That is true, but I think you're. You're really hitting on something that's important. Now, I'm not sitting here and saying, get off of Facebook. Don't do Facebook. Facebook is the devil. But there are some inherent dangers to putting a lot of your information out there.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, yeah. We have seen cases come over where Instagram influencers have been murdered because somebody thought they were closer to that person than they actually were.

[Mike Ferguson]

And then maybe they tried to reach out to them. They got rejected.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's a lot of things that can happen. After the sentencing, Idaho State Police Lt. Darren Gilbertson and Prosecutor Bill Thompson spoke to ABC. Lt. Gilbertson said about the motive. He's the only one that has the why, and oftentimes that why it may only make sense to him. Prosecutor Thompson noted there was evidence that Kohberger had been deleting things from his devices, trying to sanitize his devices. So we don't know if there was something there he got rid of. And this goes back for me to the plea deal. Why not make that a part of it, the motive and the full confession. Why did you do this? Why did you target these individuals?

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, I feel like the plea deal was handled wrong.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I do, too. Now Thompson believes either Kaylee or Maddie were the target, saying, I personally feel that for whatever reason, he targeted one of the young women on the third floor. The fact that he found them together, whether that was planned, we'll never know. It's more likely that he didn't expect to encounter Zannah and the others up and out. And it was, as we mentioned in the first episode, very early in the morning. 3, 4 o' clock in the morning.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, I mean, that's when most people are at their deepest sleep.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, unless you're me or somebody who's been out partying in college. Gilbertson provided his theory on Kohberger's final trip to Moscow. Hours after the murders. He said, my hunch is that it was curiosity. I think he had to be wondering, why is nothing happening? Why is there no news? Why is there nothing? Why are the police not there? Why am I not hearing anything about this? I think this goes Back to no 911 call being made, and then the survivors don't alert the police until later on in the morning.

[Mike Gibson]

And his ego wants fed. Why am I not hearing something about this?

[Mike Ferguson]

Thompson added that he was empathetic towards the Gonzalves family, who wanted a trial, saying, I respect and recognize that not everybody agrees with the decision we made. We considered what all the families had to say before we decided to make the resolution that we did. They were heard. We had something that a trial would have never given us or the community or families. We had his sworn acknowledgment that the charges are true. That would have never occurred after a trial. If he would have been found guilty, we would have been engaged in literally decades of appeals with him maintaining his innocence. We have the closure of avoiding those appeals. We have certainty.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, there's something to be said about that, too. But again, I think there probably was a better way to go about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Now, what I'm hearing from him, which is different than I think what I originally thought was that they did hear from the families, but maybe all the families didn't agree. Yeah, that's going to happen and that's going to happen. It could have been that the Gonzalez family wanted something, the other families wanted something else. And, you know, the prosecutors made the decision that they made. A new year, colder days. This is the moment your winter wardrobe really has to deliver. If you're craving a winter reset. Start with pieces truly made to last season after season. Quince brings together premium materials, thoughtful design and enduring quality so you stay warm, look sharp and feel your best all season long. Quince has everything you need, from Mongolian cashmere sweaters to wool coats and amazing denim that holds up to daily wear. And all of it just looks amazing. By cutting out middlemen and traditional markups, Quince delivers the same quality as luxury brands at a fraction of the price. And my wife and I have been ordering so much stuff from Quince, but now she is on to their jeans and she loves them. She says they're the best jeans she's ever worn and she's had some that have cost four, five, six times as much. Refresh your winter wardrobe with quinte. Go to quinte.com teacat for free shipping on your order and and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com tcatt free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com tcat when asked why prosecutors didn't push for a full confession or the location of the murder weapon, Thompson said there was no legal way we could have compelled those in. And quite frankly, there's nothing that he could have said that I think would have been credible or believable. He's manipulative.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, but why not ask?

[Mike Ferguson]

And maybe they did. And maybe he said, I'm not going to tell you that. I don't know. Prosecutor Thompson said there was no evidence there was any sexual component or sexual assault on any of the victims. I want to make that clear. So there's no speculation. However, Steve Goncalves shared during an appearance on NewsNation's Banfield that he strongly disagrees with the prosecutor's remarks based on information he got from individuals involved in the investigation. According to Steve, people got so angry at what was happening in that courtroom that they would literally pick up their phone and call us and say, this is what's on Brian's phone. This is what he was searching. This was sexually motivated. I don't care what Thompson said. So, you know, from my way of thinking, there is a difference between a sexual component and a sexual assault. You know, we have learned, Gibbs, over the years, that killers can derive some sort of sick sexual gratification merely from the killing.

[Mike Gibson]

Yes.

[Mike Ferguson]

So that would be, in my way of thinking, a sexual component to the crime without what we would traditionally think of as a sexual assault occurring. And maybe that's what Steve Gonzalves is talking about since the gag order has been removed Steve alleged that someone informed him of Kohberger's weird, weird porn fetishes, which allegedly included drunk passed out girls and gagging girls. Steve said those are two things that were part of that crime scene. So for Thompson to say that there was no sexual assault, of course there wasn't evidence of sexual assault. He didn't have enough time. Somebody came up there again. Maybe sexual assault was not his ultimate goal. Maybe he derived sexual gratification from the killing alone.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah, maybe. Or maybe sexual assault was his plan, but got interrupted and wasn't able to get to that.

[Mike Ferguson]

Heard people walking around, something like that. CNN did an interview with Idaho State Police Lt. Darren Gilbertson and Moscow Police Chief Anthony Dollinger that shed more light on the investigation. Gilbertson said everything lined up for them once they started looking into Kohberger as a suspect. By the time the FBI linked his DNA to the knife sheath, it had been several weeks and they had thousands of tips. Although cell tower evidence put Kohberger in the area of the home for months leading up to the murders, there was no connection between him and the victims and no evidence he knew them. Investigators learned that after the murders, Kohberger fixated on news coverage and began paying items in cash. He often wore gloves and and avoided the area of the murders. He stopped using his debit and credit cards. He also started erasing data from his devices, but kept several screenshots and pictures of news coverage of the killings. There was no evidence on his devices that he had known the victims. Debunking reports that Coburger had photos and the social media accounts of some of the victims on his phone. Gilbertson told cnn. To this date, we have never found a single connection, anything between any of the four victims or the other two surviving roommates with him. No pictures, no texts.

[Mike Gibson]

It doesn't mean that he didn't go on to social media and look them up. And, you know, yeah, maybe he didn't.

[Mike Ferguson]

Do it on his phone. Maybe he did it at the library. I don't know. Gilbertson said Kohberger was very consumed with criminology and the psychology of murder. He confirmed that investigators received hundreds of tips about Kaylee Gonzalves possibly having a stalker. He said somebody had followed her, and I know Kaylee absolutely felt that it was real. We investigated that heavily. We tracked down every bit of it. Fortunately, it was not what we would term or think of as stalking. According to Gilbertson, it ended up being an instance where somebody saw a very pretty girl and was hoping to maybe be able to talk to her or maybe be able to get a date or something. So from that I'm taking. Okay. It wasn't coburger or they would have come out and said that.

[Mike Gibson]

Right.

[Mike Ferguson]

It was someone who saw Kaylee and she was a very attractive girl and thought, okay, I'd like to get to know her. Maybe I'm gonna execute a meet. Cute.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or like a run in and then I'll get a chance to talk to her. Is that stalking? Not probably the, the way that we would think of it.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. I get what you're saying. It's just trying to find an opportunity to have a little face to face time without being creepy about it.

[Mike Ferguson]

Like if you were attracted to someone and you wanted to figure out a way to meet them and you knew that they took a walk every day at 6:00'. Clock. Yeah. And you knew their route, maybe you leave at six going the opposite direction, hoping that a conversation will strike up. Is that technically stalking? I don't think you'd be charged with.

[Mike Gibson]

That unless you do it every day from that point on attempting the same thing. It might be a little bit too much.

[Mike Ferguson]

It could be at a certain point, I mean, in that situation, there's no ill intent, there's no ill will.

[Mike Gibson]

Maybe we'll just come across a little creepy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm not advising to do it. I'm just kind of asking the question. In December 2022, investigators identified an incident from October in which two men were seen at a business and one appeared to follow Kaylee inside. And as she exited to her car, the man did not make contact with her. Investigators spoke to both men and learned that they were trying to meet women at the business. Detectives believed this was an isolated incident and not a pattern of stalking. And you know, let's face it, Gibbs, women have to put up with a lot being hit on. Sure, they do cat calls, things that they really shouldn't have to put up with. But, you know, some men will try anything they can think of to meet a woman. And some men are just pigs. I don't know how else to say it. I hate to denigrate my, my gender, but I think that's a pretty well known fact. I don't think I'm letting anything out of the, the bag there.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, you, you know, you do have two daughters and I'm sure they've told you stories where they were at college. So, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think they tend not to tell me a lot because they don't want me to go all Lisa Liam Neeson down There start a ruckus.

[Mike Gibson]

I. I can see their concern.

[Mike Ferguson]

Who's this guy? Where is this guy? In September 2025, the public learned that the Idaho state police spoke to two WSU students who said Kohberger stalked them. He showed up at their workplace every day. Both women said they later heard or were informed of someone watching them through a window outside their homes. Okay, now we're definitely in the area of stalking, that's for sure. You cannot be peeping through people's windows.

[Mike Gibson]

Ill advised.

[Mike Ferguson]

You also can't show up at their workplace every day. Now, what does every day mean? For what duration? I don't know, but it doesn't sound good.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, if it's a restaurant, coffee shop and you're actually buying something, but if it's like a dentist's office or there's only.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's only so many times you get your teeth clean.

[Mike Gibson]

Exactly.

[Mike Ferguson]

The first woman worked at the WSU bookstore. She noticed that Kohberger seemed very used to being put off by women. And this kind of goes back to what we were talking about in episode one, where many people believe there's a real kind of incel vibe to Bryan Kohberger. In August or September 2022, she was home alone one night, changing in her room, and someone knocked on her window. She called her husband, and the person ran off.

[Mike Gibson]

What's that person thinking at that moment? I'm going to knock on the window because I think maybe you're turning around and be like, hey, hey, you know.

[Mike Ferguson]

Open the window and let you in.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, what are you thinking?

[Mike Ferguson]

It happened again, she said another time, after she had started working, she heard someone moving around on her porch. At approximately seven in the evening, her husband came home again and saw a white car leaving the area. And we know that Kohberger drove a white Elantra. Now, also, there are a lot of white cars, so there is. Could it be him? Sure. Kohberger also seemed to have researched her because he knew personal details about her that she never volunteered. He once came in and asked for her by name, and she was certain she had never told him her name. And she didn't wear a name tag. Kohberger also knew what hours she worked and made remarks about her schedule.

[Mike Gibson]

So that's definitely stalking right there.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah, I think we're into the area of it for sure. The other student was an undergraduate who worked in the criminology department with Kohberger. She declined his advances and told him she was attracted to women. And. But that didn't stop him from seeking her out almost daily. According to the police report, she was told that she was not the first person to have problems with Bryan Kohberger.

[Mike Gibson]

Sounds like it was a consistent thing at the university that he was located at.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and the police knew about it. We know of one other woman for sure. We just talked about her. She recalled one night when she was working late that she saw Coburger outside as she was locking up. She said he made eye contact with her when she looked out, which seems strange because you would have to be looking directly at the window where she worked to make eye contact. She ran and hid in a bathroom to avoid him when she saw him enter the building.

[Mike Gibson]

Now, that's creepy.

[Mike Ferguson]

Well, and I think her reaction tells you how creeped out she was. One day, she received a call from a neighbor who said they saw someone very close outside her window and to make sure to lock the door. Soon after this, she learned that she lived near Brian Coburger. Okay. Does your level of fear go up? I think it has to.

[Mike Gibson]

Yeah. Your spidey senses are on high alert.

[Mike Ferguson]

Or tingling. Tingling, as most people would say. Anybody that knows anything about superheroes, which you do not. A fellow classmate of Kohberger's recalled an incident when she felt someone was outside her window, and soon after found snow footprints leading to the back window of her apartment. The classmate noted that whoever had left the footprints had backtracked within the tracks. And that's a scary thought, right? That's a real kind of sophisticated move to go back through the same tracks that you made.

[Mike Gibson]

That's somebody that's a professional stalker.

[Mike Ferguson]

You could say that. Or. Gibbs, let me put this out there. Somebody who knows a lot about criminology. And who do we know that knew a lot about criminology? Bryan Kohberger. Yeah. She told police that another classmate heard someone trying to open the door to their home a few weeks prior to this incident. I mean, I could understand why these women were scared of him. This is not somebody who is attempting a beat. Cute, right? To meet someone, say hi, maybe ask them on a date. This is someone possibly trying to see if, you know, a woman's door is locked. Peeping through their windows, knocking on their windows when they see them showing up at their workplace repeatedly making eye contact in a creepy way.

[Mike Gibson]

I mean, I think these two individuals were lucky.

[Mike Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. Really could have been. Is it possible that he was fixated on them and could just have easily killed them? I would say the answer is yes. So, as we wrap this case up, Gibbs The Idaho college murders case has been in the national headlines for three, four years now. Although the case is now resolved, there still are a lot of questions left unanswered. We don't know why Brian Kohberger targeted the house at 1122 King Road, why he appeared to stock the area for months beforehand, and why he chose to enter the house on November 13, 2022. Did he intend on killing one of the residents or all of them? We don't know his motive, although it appears that he did show an interest in high profile killers. It's possible he studied them because he wanted to become a serial killer or to commit a murder without getting caught. And it seems he used some of his knowledge from his criminology studies to conceal his crimes.

[Mike Gibson]

Well, having all that knowledge didn't keep him from getting caught, did it?

[Mike Ferguson]

No, no. And, you know, I think especially when you're talking today with the technology that's out there, it has to be harder and harder to, to get away with some of these crimes. Would they have caught Bryan Kohberger in the 1970s? I don't know. You know, cell phone tower data played a big part.

[Mike Gibson]

Sure.

[Mike Ferguson]

In this case, DNA. Yeah, DNA played a huge role. Now, they could have gotten there, possibly some of these women coming forward saying, hey, this guy, you know, he's been stalking me. And maybe they put two and two together, together. But, you know, you, you had the WSU and then the University of Idaho, granted only seven, eight miles apart. But would they have put it together back then with agencies maybe not able to communicate with each other as much? I don't know that they would have.

[Mike Gibson]

I think it would have been a challenge. But in that scenario, would it have been difficult for him to learn about those victims? Would he have known about them if.

[Mike Ferguson]

He got all of his information through social media? I would say yeah, he wouldn't have had that access. But the one thing I will say about this case is that it captured people's attention all over, and it continues to, because like I just said, there are still questions that we don't have the answers to. And I think anytime you have that, even in a solved case, you're still going to have people debating it. You know, it's not like he came out and said, you know, I killed these people. And here is exactly why. You know, I saw one of the girls, one of the women, I started casing the house. I went in thinking she was there alone. I'm just making something up here. My intent was to do this, this and this. Things went wrong. I ended up killing four people. Right. He hasn't said any of that?

[Mike Gibson]

No. And probably won't now.

[Mike Ferguson]

There's no reason for him to.

[Mike Gibson]

No, he's never going to get out.

[Mike Ferguson]

He already has the plea deal, so. And I think that's why the Gonzalves family and others are, you know, somewhat upset that they didn't get more out of him for taking the death penalty off the table. But that's it for our episodes on the Idaho college murders. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

[Mike Gibson]

Let's hear it.

[Sarah from Florida]

Hey, Mike and Gibby, this is Sarah from Florida. Just calling to wish you both a very happy 2026. I hope you've been enjoying this holiday season with your families and loved ones. I wanted to say thank you for a great year in 2025 with TCAT, TCAT unsolved and of course, Patreon. I finally joined Patreon this year. I've been loving it. And I called also with a case suggestion for the new year. It's about these two hackers who actually located a website on the Dark web where you can hire Hitman if you look up on YouTube, DEFCON 33 kill list. It's a 30 minute video. Pretty short, little bit of hacker babble in there. So you kind of have to be patient with that. But arrests have been made and it is just a fascinating story. So I hope you have a chance to look into it. If not for the show, just for your own entertainment. So thanks for everything again, happy New Year. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

[Mike Ferguson]

Oh, awesome. Thanks for the voicemail and thanks for the case suggestion. I hope that site on the Dark web was not hire rexwest.com Listen, I.

[Mike Gibson]

Have gained a lot of business for my Dark Web activities.

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm sure you have. I'm sure you have. You know what they say, what happens on the Dark Web stays on the Dark Web.

[Mike Gibson]

There's a reason why it's called the Dark Web.

[Mike Ferguson]

I don't understand the Dark Web. I'm not trying to get on the.

[Mike Gibson]

Dark Web, but definitely some corners of the Dark Web. You want to stay?

[Mike Ferguson]

I'm staying out of the whole thing because I. I can't imagine there's anything good that happens on this there. Yeah.

[Mike Gibson]

Besides Rex West.

[Mike Ferguson]

All right, that is it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sam.