0702 | In Blood

Summary

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True Crime Bullsh** – Episode 0702 | In Blood

Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Josh Hallmark
Main Theme:
This episode delves into the final days and suicide of Israel Keyes, examining the FBI’s last efforts to draw information from him, the logistics and frustrations of the investigation, and the stunning aftermath in both the prison and official inquiry that followed his death.

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Episode Overview

• Central Focus: The investigation into serial killer Israel Keyes reaches its climax as the FBI attempts to extract final confessions and discover the locations of his undisclosed victims. Just two and a half days after his most revealing FBI interview, Keyes is found dead in his cell, throwing the case—and agency responses—into chaos.
• Narrative Arc: The episode intertwines audio from Keyes’ final FBI interviews, the technical logistics of the investigation, and the consequential internal inquiry into how Keyes was able to die by suicide under the watch of prison authorities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. FBI’s Final Interactions with Keyes (03:28–16:14)

• Escalating Pressure: Agents intensify pressure on Keyes after eight months of stalling.
  • "It seemed to becoming clear to Keys he was running out of both bargaining tools and time." (03:48, Josh Hallmark)
• Plans to Recover Remains: Focus on the search for Debra Feldman’s remains near Tupper Lake, NY.
  • FBI prepared live satellite feeds and GPS mapping to guide Keyes.
  • Highly detailed logistical planning intended to jog Keyes’ memory in the field.
  • Notable Quote:
    “In all fairness, I never set up a specific day, but it actually would have worked because my attorney didn’t show up till that afternoon.” (06:09, Keyes)
• Keyes Withholding Information: He discusses caches of weapons and evidence, bargaining over which to reveal.
  • Suggests some caches are unrelated to murders but ultimately admits they all hold evidence.
  • Notable Quote:
    “They're all related to stuff.…I just have to think about it.” (11:35, Keyes)
• Stalemate and Resignation: Keyes gets cagey and frustrated; agents counter with the urgency of time.
  • “Keep thinking that I’m not working, trying to work with you. I am, but from my perspective, you know…we’ve been sitting here. I’m aware of the months clicking.” (14:19, Keyes)

Timestamps:

• FBI-Keys Bank Robbery/Tupper Lake planning — 05:29–08:27
• Caches and negotiation about evidence — 10:17–14:31

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2. Keyes’s Death and Prison Investigation (16:14–44:55)

Finding Keyes’s Body (16:14–17:38, 27:28–29:56)

• Suicide Details:
  • Keyes slit his wrists, used a sheet to strangle himself, wrote several messages on the cell walls in blood, and left a bizarre suicide note.
  • Blood pooled on floor, on bedding, and on the cell walls (notably inscribed with “Caracol,” numbers “5” and possibly “54,” and other cryptic symbols).
  • Notable Quote:
    "I have photos of Keyes' cell, and there is a significant amount of blood... inches directly above where Keyes' head was in his bed was 'Caracol' written in large block lettering in his blood." (28:30, Josh Hallmark)

Administrative Lapses & Infuriating Interview (20:42–37:17)

• Corrections Officer Jacobson’s Laxity:
  • Claimed half-hourly cell checks, admits possible deviations.
  • Despite extensive blood and evidence, he insists:
    "I never saw the blood… I mean, I don’t really look at the floor when I’m looking in there." (26:12, Jacobson)
  • Investigator Bartlett’s frustration:
    "If I can see that from a video across the mod … I kind of find it hard to imagine that you wouldn’t be able to see the pool of blood." (25:30, Investigator Bartlett)
  • CO’s poor explanations, focus only on confirming an inmate is present, not on full observation.
  • Potential Cover-up or Gross Negligence:
    Officers didn’t see (or ignored) blood, writing, and Keyes’s deteriorating state even when there was a large, obvious blood pool.
  • Jacobson asserts impartiality in treating inmates:
    “My job is to protect everybody and whether no matter what they’ve done, right, wrong, indifferent, I look after everybody the same way.” (33:02, Jacobson)
• Evidence mishandling: Razors and pencils returned to Keyes after suicide watch removed, potentially facilitating suicide.

Timestamps:

• CO Jacobson’s cell check routine and defense — 21:29–26:27
• Bartlett outlines inconsistency, points to blood evidence — 26:27–36:29
• Description of Keyes’s cell, suicide scene, and messages — 37:28–42:23

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3. Aftermath, Internet Privileges, & New Leads (44:55–49:33)

• Keyes’s Final Internet Use:
  On last night, Keyes accessed the prison law library with unmonitored Internet access—potentially tracked news of himself and left further digital traces.
• Cold Case Updates:
  New potential lead in Port Angeles, WA—private residence near “Little Oklahoma,” previously associated with a Keyes friend, flagged by cold-case detectives.
  • Quote (FBI Special Agent Ted Halla):
    “We’ve been invited to go out and take a look at the area in the future and just check it out for whatever may become significant from that.” (48:01)
• Reflections:
  Keyes’s last acts, focus on himself, and the chilling lack of closure only fuel continued investigation and intrigue.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker / Description | Quote / Moment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:28 | Josh Hallmark (Narrator) | “These are the final words that Israel Keyes would ever utter to the FBI.” | | 06:09 | Israel Keyes | “In all fairness, I never set up a specific day, but it actually would have worked because my attorney didn’t show up till that afternoon.”| | 11:35 | Keyes | “They're all related to stuff.…I just have to think about it.” | | 14:19 | Keyes | “I’m aware of the months clicking. I’m just having new appreciation for things being done at a different spot speed, that’s all.”| | 25:30 | Investigator Bartlett | “I kind of find it hard to imagine that you wouldn’t be able to see the pool of blood when you walked right by the cell.” | | 28:30 | Josh Hallmark | “Inches directly above where Keyes head was in his bed was 'Caracol' written in large block lettering in his blood.”| | 33:02 | Jacobson (CO) | “My job is to protect everybody and whether no matter what they’ve done…I look after everybody the same way.”| | 37:28 | Josh Hallmark | Detailed description of the scene: “Keyes was laying face down…sheets saturated with blood…”| | 48:01 | Ted Halla (FBI) | “We’ve been invited to go out and take a look at the area in the future…” |

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Structural Timeline

• 03:28 – Josh Hallmark sets the stage: Keyes’ final days, mounting FBI pressure.
• 05:29–08:27 – FBI plans for Tupper Lake; technical setup and scheduling issues.
• 10:17–14:31 – Keyes discussion of caches, negotiations with agents; stalls for leverage.
• 16:14–17:38 – Keyes’s suicide and the immediate aftermath.
• 21:29–36:29 – Extended, tense interview between Investigator Bartlett and CO Jacobson exploring staff accountability and the procedural failings at the prison.
• 37:28–42:23 – Detailed description of the suicide scene and what was discovered in the cell.
• 44:55–49:33 – Keyes’s final Internet use, and new investigative leads.

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Conclusion

The episode pulls listeners into the chilling and frustrating reality of Israel Keyes’s final manipulations, the technology-driven efforts by the FBI to uncover the remains of his victims, and the staggering breakdowns in correctional supervision that allowed Keyes’s suicide and final “statements” in blood. It underscores continued questions—about the true extent of Keyes’s crimes, the possibility of more undiscovered victims, and the lingering mysteries in his cryptic ominous writings.

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Transcript

[Bowen Yang]

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[Bowen Yang]

I knew it was the jacket he was after giving up the jacket in.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

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[Bowen Yang]

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[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Consider supporting studio both and on Patreon. Patrons have access to ad free and early episodes, bonus content, file access, event discounts and more. And all Patreon support goes directly into our investigations. To support the show go to patreon.com studiobothand. This is a studio both and production.

[Bowen Yang]

From my perspective though, even if they were to officially charge me at this point, it's not like it would be.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Real breaking news anyway.

[Bowen Yang]

I think, you know, in some ways it would be because no law enforcement person has ever confirmed that right? So it would just be confirmation of everyone's current speculation. He sacked us all in a session. So I, I, I don't, I'm not interested in it from that point.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

I was just interested in it from.

[Bowen Yang]

A logistics point like where do they have to fly me to Vermont if they're going to charge me or those are some of the questions, but not to get there. Is it warmer in Vermont? We talked to them Monday and it just snowed. They told us they got More snow than us then. Yeah. You gotta take a leak or anything for me? You're not gonna eat this?

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

These are the final words that Israel Keys would ever utter to the FBI. On November 29th of 2012, unbeknownst to the FBI, they would conduct their final interview with Keyes. It would be perhaps his most revealing interview. But just two and a half days later, he'd be dead. This is true crime bullshit. The serialized investigation Into Israel Keys Season 7 Episode 2 in BL. In the weeks leading up to Keyes's death, the FBI was escalating things in the interview room. And it seemed to becoming clear to Keys that he was running out of both bargaining tools and time. He'd given the FBI enough that they knew where and how to put pressure on him. Over the course of eight and a half months, he'd given up as little information as possible, presumably as a means to maintain the relationship while getting what he wanted. But over time, those little bits of information had piled up. The FBI knew that Debra Feldman was buried near Tepper Lake at an S shaped curve in the Rackette River. In fact, one week before Keyes died by suicide, he was supposed to guide the FBI from the Tupper Lake bank robbery to the area that Deborah's remains were. But he didn't show up. He stayed in his cell. But the FBI weren't rolling over anymore. In his final interview, they pressured him to try again the following week.

[Bowen Yang]

So, talking about other crimes. So we wanted to kind of pick up where we left off on some things, give you any information that you might be thinking about over the last few weeks related to that. And I think we had some updates on the New York search and things like that. So why don't we start there?

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

Okay. And also though the live feed, I wanted to jump into that because I know we came over on Tuesday, we had it set up. We had a couple guys up in Tupper Lake to go over the bank, to go over the bankrupt.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, it was a three hour drive.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

In all fairness, I never set up a specific day, but it actually would have worked because my attorney didn't show up till that afternoon.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

All right, well, it didn't work that day, but we had hoped to have it set up today. Since when? We thought you were gonna work for today, but Albany had some other stuff come up. But I have to say it was pretty cool. We tested it and the way that. Just so you have an idea of what it looks like and what to expect. Because we'll try to set something up for next week. But we did two laptops. One of them was essentially like a tracker. So you had an over an overhead GPS Google Map kind of view. And then the other one was the live feed actually from the camera and then the plant we had speakerphone. So then you can say go right.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Here, go left here.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

And our plan plan was just to use. Because Tupper Lake is a little more remote than doing it in a city. We wanted to use Tupper Lake and just tackle the bank robbery because that.

[Bowen Yang]

Was make sure we had cell reception.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

Or wherever the ally signal because depending on where they. Where they're at they have to use. Sometimes they'll use satellite sometimes. So we're going to use different types of things in order to bring them.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Wow.

[Bowen Yang]

Fancy.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

It's kind of.

[Bowen Yang]

See I assume some of these places we're going to go are going to be cell phone only finally living up to people's expectations. All those CSI shows, they still can't usually get the thing solved in 20 minutes. Yeah. Really it's an hour show. But I'm picturing the Google Earth car driving around right here.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

She'll get one of those.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

So we'd like to still do that.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

And I don't have a day yet. I don't know specifically there's snow there yet. There wasn't if there. There wasn't much.

[Bowen Yang]

I mean it wasn't something east coast. But typically the morning works for you. Right. Because that's for the four hour time.

[Matt Rogers]

Typically.

[Bowen Yang]

If we could get that. Yeah. Discounter wanted. Don't want to drive three hours again. Maybe we could just do it in Albany or. But we thought the memory lane trip Tupper Lake would be more interesting. Maybe for both of us. Yeah, well I spent a lot of time. I'm sure we can find our way over. So you think it next week?

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

Yeah, I don't have a specific date yet. We'll work on setting up a date next week and we'll do it like we did this time. Early enough that if you've got other stuff.

[Bowen Yang]

Right.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

Try not to make a conflict with that so that we can get you back there by mid morning even.

[Dan Morgan]

Right?

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

I didn't realize you guys had went all out on the Tupper Lake thing. You had agents up there with the cameras but you just wanted to talk about the bank robbery or were you?

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Well we.

[Bowen Yang]

What we had set up was we just had them at the bank robbery parking lot to show you the light feed that we could do.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

We can talk about whatever you want to talk about.

[Bowen Yang]

We didn't have any expectations, but we thought the natural progression, because of what we've been talking would be in that general area. So we wanted to get things moving there. Right. You know, and if you wanted to just, like, pull out of the parking lot and then take us to the riverbend, all the better. But, yeah, you would be driving. Yeah, it would be like you'd be driving because we thought maybe that's how it's going to have to be eventually. Maybe is that you might have to be in the driver's seat, so to speak, to see landmarks or whatever you need to see.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

It had been clear early on that Keyes didn't want the FBI to know anything about Debra Feldman, her abduction or what he did to her. He got cagey. He got mad. He lied whenever they asked about her. And now the FBI were closer than ever to finding her. But Tupper Lake wasn't the only area that they were putting pressure on Keys. In that final interview, they also started talking about digging up the Port Angeles cache.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, the other caches aren't related to any. I mean, that one in New York was the only one directly related to the murderous part of my house. The guns, some of the guns stuff. Well, that would give us something to go on. If there was a catch that they could go and retrieve, That would keep. I think that would keep the FBI busy. Yeah. I'll have to think about which ones I want to part with. If you thought it all still belongs to me, have a candy bar. If you thought one that you wanted to give up, that maybe we might be able to work something out with our video.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

Oh, yeah, that's a good idea.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, that's another issue.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Is there the others?

[Bowen Yang]

I can't find just the satellite map. So I can give you a general area. Yeah, well, if you gave them a general area, they could probably get some of them. We just have to have enough information to get a hold of, you know, to attack the person that covers that area. Right. So, again, you know, be a cash. It's not related to anything. So you're really not giving up any of your cards to trade with. Well, that's the issue. They're all related to stuff.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

They're just.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I just have to think about it. Well, they want to try and remember what's in. Yeah. Yeah, but it's sort of interesting for you, too. You'll get to see what's in there, and you'll get to see them again. Yeah, one of those oh, shit. Moments it up and I See what's in there. Israel, there's been too many oceans. Yeah, well, I've had enough. I've had my share for the year. Oh yeah, this is just the way. What about a cash that they can work on for next week? Well, the easiest would be Washington, so know my way around there a little better. The agents are ready, but I have to, I have. Trying to remember what's in it. Do you want them to line? Do you want them to line it up? That's the thing. It can't be. We can't make the decision that day because they won't have time to. Yeah, they won't have time to line it up. You think about it over like. Yeah, but you think about it over the weekend or something. Yeah.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

And if there's anything you want, like.

[Bowen Yang]

It'Ll give me like an hour on the Internet maybe. Before, before we do this. You want an hour on the Internet? Do a little research. I've been an info blackout for too long. I think that's, you know, you can think about that. If there's anything you want short term in terms of. I was joking, I wouldn't do that anyway. No, I'm not talking about the Internet. I'm talking about like, yeah, if you want some sort of. All right, I'm going to do. But you wouldn't do that on the Internet. If we set a computer down here, you're just going to go, right? See, everywhere I went, I wouldn't do that to you. But yeah, no, anything, you know, to kind of satisfy any short term goals you have, even if it's just food or coffee or you know, whatever. Obviously a coffee anyway. But you know, again, it's sort of a situation where I think you're not giving up anything. Giving us help with whoever we need to persuade.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Right.

[Bowen Yang]

I think it, you know, no, I, I can see your, I, I see your point of view, I do on this, but at the same time I have my own frustrations right now as well, so. But, but even like this is productive, this will be viewed as productive, you know, I mean you, you said you came over, we got stuff and so it's only productive from a non prosecuting attorney appointment. It's productive. First Elvis, you already got me on enough stuff. It's okay, it's okay. You know, I'm getting out of the mail anytime. Keep thinking that I'm not working. Trying to work with you. I am, but from my perspective, you know, Israel said he's going to do a lot of things in a short Time frame. And we've been sitting here.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Collecting the months away. And believe me, I'm aware of the months clicking. I'm just having new appreciation for things being done at a different spot speed, that's all.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

So let me just make sure I clear on the cash. Do you have a general area now that you can give us or do you want to think about it?

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Washington.

[Matt Rogers]

Right.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

But I mean even there's State. We have. We have offices in a bunch of places. So we have to figure out which.

[Bowen Yang]

Office we're working with.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

Is there anything close to Neabay or area.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, not near Neabe, but in that.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

That area.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Okay.

[Bowen Yang]

Outside of Seattle. Between Seattle and. Yeah, right. You already met those agents already, so.

[FBI Agent / Investigator]

That'S how I bring it down. Okay, so do you want me to try to set that up for next week? I don't know. I'm obviously not going to know what day into Port angel is there somewhere?

[Bowen Yang]

Port Angel? Yeah, I don't. Don't set up a time yet. I gotta try and remember. Once you get the computer, you can look right now if you want. Is that going to help Google? You can look at Google right now if you want. I'm trying to remember what's in it. He's trying to remember what? That's probably not going to be on Google. No, we can tie that together. We'll just open it up and be like Al Capone's boss. It's not that impressive. I'm more concerned about the little stuff that might be in the. Well, well, well. Things you never thought you'd be talking about.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

At 6:23am the day before he was scheduled to meet with the FBI again, Keys was found dead in his prison cell. And what he left behind would create absolute chaos in both the prison and the investigation. I have learned that the best way for me to master the holiday season is to start shopping well before December. Because when you're not in a rush, you can actually have fun finding just the right gifts for everyone in your life. Uncommon Goods makes holiday shopping stress free and and actually joyful with thousands of one of a kind gifts that you can't find anywhere else. Here's the deal. Uncommon Goods looks for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade or made in the US and many are crafted by independent artists and small businesses. And because they're made in small batches, the best vines can sell out fast. I really love Uncommon Goods because they carry everything you want and a bunch of stuff that you didn't know you wanted. As an example, I went on looking for gifts and ended up buying a gift for a friend and a gift for myself. For me, I bought this sleek and modern cast iron iron potato baker which I did not know was even a thing. I eat an ungodly amount of baked potatoes. Ask me for my recipe, I promise it'll change your life. But what was more exciting was what I bought for a friend. I love buying experiences as gifts. They create long lasting memories and don't pile up in someone's attic or basement. And Uncommon Goods has an entire category dedicated to experiences. I bought my friend a hotpot kit so she and her kids can make a few different hotpot recipes. But they've also got tarot readings, mixology classes, cooking classes, tasting classes. There's a coffee and chocolate tasting class that looks incredible. So whether you're looking for that perfect gift or a unique experience to create wonderful memories, Uncommon Goods has it. And when you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Shop early, have fun and cross some names off your list today. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommongoods.com that's uncommongoods.com tcbs for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon Goods. We're all out of the ordinary.

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[Bowen Yang]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod.

[Matt Rogers]

Say hi Dan.

[Dan Morgan]

Hey, how's it going today?

[Bowen Yang]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Bowen Yang]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently. It said 20 billion one. 20 billion is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.

[Bowen Yang]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan?

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

What.

[Bowen Yang]

What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 24. 7 365.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Wow.

[Bowen Yang]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[Investigator Bartlett]

All right. It's December 13, 2012. It's about 17, 16 hours. Investigator Bartlett and co. Lauren Jacobson.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Following Keyes suicide, an investigation was conducted by the Alaska Bureau of Investigation and Department of Public Safety Officer Scott Bartlett to find out how exactly Keyes was able to slit his wrists, write multiple messages in his own blood on his cell walls, strangle himself, and slowly bleed out without anyone in the prison noticing. And their primary focus was on Lorne Jacobson, the corrections officer on patrol during those early morning hours of December 2nd.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Why don't you tell me about your checks? Like, how often do you do checks?

[Bowen Yang]

Approximately every 30 minutes.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Are you like, are you like, is there a mandate or is there a rule that says you need to do it every 30 minutes or every half hour or twice an hour?

[Bowen Yang]

That's like twice an hour? Yeah, yeah, about every 30 minutes, give or, you know, depending on. They don't want you to do it exactly on the minute. If you just, you know, because people can, they know routine on it. But I mean, a lot of times if you don't get some kind of rhythm going, then it's easy to. Now I didn't want to do it at 30 minutes and now the phone's rang and something happens and you go long. I guess I try and do it at 30 minutes, but, I mean, things do happen.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Yeah. Okay. How many checks do you think you made that night?

[Bowen Yang]

Let's see, I would imagine around 20 something checks because, you know, I get broke out. They do checks then. So I GUESS there's like 24 checks in an hour or in a shift.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Okay.

[Bowen Yang]

Two times 12 was 24 or so.

[Investigator Bartlett]

So the first few checks, he was probably still up and about oh, yeah?

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Because I had him out for law library somewhere around 1900 hours to somewhere around 2100hours in there. So he was basically chained to a desk or bench that folded to the floor while he. Computer thing at the.

[Investigator Bartlett]

The Public Defenders.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Investigator Bartlett]

After you said that, lights out, he went into his bed and covered up. At any point after that, during your checks, did you notice him moving at all or anything?

[Bowen Yang]

Not that I recall, but he was kind of one of those guys that didn't move around. I mean, other nights he didn't. You know, some guys are up looking out the window, but he kind of stayed pretty still. I guess, for a better word, most of, you know, the other nights, you know, it all looked about normal. Yeah.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Okay. When you do a check, do you look in every cell every single time?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Investigator Bartlett]

You do?

[Bowen Yang]

Mm.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Okay. And what are you looking for when you look in the cell?

[Bowen Yang]

I'm looking to see that, you know, basically, since it's lights out, that they're in the bunk, but there's somebody in the bunk and you know that they're there.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Okay.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Did you notice anything out of place the entire time?

[Bowen Yang]

No. You know, that's one of the, you know, things that, you know, I've thought back about it like, I never noticed anything different.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Bartlett interviewed Jacobson for close to three hours, and it is one of the most infuriating interviews I've ever listened to. And I've listened to more than 40 hours of keys being interviewed by Russo, Feldes, and Bell.

[Investigator Bartlett]

And I want you to understand that I'm not here on behalf of Doc or anything like that.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, sir.

[Investigator Bartlett]

I don't know what they're doing.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Right.

[Investigator Bartlett]

I don't know the reasons you're on administrative leave. I have no idea. I haven't spoken to them about that. So I'm just here for my case. But, I mean, I think it's. I looked at the video, and you walked by it several times, and I was able to see into the cell, and I was able to see a pool of blood. And if I can see that from a video across the mod. That's up in the ceiling or up on the wall, high up on the wall. I kind of find it hard to imagine that you wouldn't be able to see the pool of blood when you walked right by the cell. And I think you walked by it after I was able to see it. You walked by it at least eight times.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Investigator Bartlett]

@ least. I would.

[Bowen Yang]

Say. I don't know. You know, and I've thought about that. Too. And I know.

[Investigator Bartlett]

That like, some.

[Bowen Yang]

Of the cells are missing paint off the floor. So like there's patches of floors. And I honestly, I never saw the blood. I mean, I don't really look at the floor when I'm looking in there. I know he's on the bunk, so, you know, you go, okay, he's on the bunk. Yeah, there he.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Is. I think if you looked in that general area, you'd probably have to see the blood though, because there it's a dark reddish. I mean, it's blood. And then you got the light blue floor, gray floor, whatever it is, it would stand.

[Bowen Yang]

Out. Sure, I thought about that a million times and I did not see it. Well, only thing I can say is I don't know if it happened when. I don't know when it happened. I don't know if the other guy that broke me out, he could. Or if it happened during, before or after that. I asked the day shift officer who found it. I said, did you see the pool of blood? He said, I didn't see anything until we turned the lights.

[Investigator Bartlett]

On. Well, he didn't do any checks until they turned the lights.

[Bowen Yang]

On. Yeah, but like you're saying you could see it from the camera, but it, I mean, it.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Wasn'T. I can see it from the camera in the dark and I can see you walking by it and I can see you looking into the cell and it looks like your head's like right at. Looking right at.

[Bowen Yang]

It. Well, I. I'm looking right at him. I guess that's my only, you know, thing I can say. I'm not looking at a pool of blood and going, eh, I don't see that. I mean, I'm not that way. I mean, I mean, I don't operate that.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Way. Is there any reason that CO Smart would tell me that you told him you saw a pool of something.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

There?

[Investigator Bartlett]

No. And that you didn't necessarily say it was a pool of blood, but you said that there was a pool of something. And I didn't think it was a big deal or something to that.

[Bowen Yang]

Effect. The only thing that I ever talked to him about is Mrs. Miller showed me the picture of it and I said, then I could see the blood on the floor. And I said, you know, it didn't in the picture, to me, it didn't look like.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Blood. I sat and watched it like slow motion. And you can just see the thing getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. I mean, if I'm able to see that from the video from that crappy video. That's not a good video. That video is horrible. It's grainy. It's poor.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Video. It.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Is. And I'm able to see that with that poor video with the dark and everything. And it's huge. The blood stain's like this.

[Bowen Yang]

Big. I don't know what to.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Say now. I want to cut in here to say that I have photos of Keyes cell and there is a significant amount of blood, blood all over the walls, all over his bed, all over the floor. In the specific area that Bartlett keeps bringing up is where prior to dying, Keyes seemed to be hanging over the side of his bed for a prolonged period of time where he was bleeding into a puddle on the floor, which grew larger and larger over time and eventually began to stream and pool near the cell door directly where the CO is meant to be walking past. Throughout the interview, CO Jacobsen says he generally only did a head check at night where he checked to see if a prisoner's head could be seen in their bed. So giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was so focused on these head checks that he completely missed the blood all over the floor. However, inches directly above where Keyes head was in his bed was Caracol written in large block lettering in his blood. And that's overlooking significant other artwork Keyes had done in his cell prior to dying. But it seems unlikely that anyone would miss both the blood on the floor and the blood directly above Keyes's head on the cell wall. So Bartlett made the obvious.

[Bowen Yang]

Assumption. The clock's running out on December Deal drops at Lowe's. But there's still time to wrap up something they'll love. Shop great gifts under $50 like the Dewalt Elite Series 100 piece bit set. Plus if you order by 2pm you get same day delivery by 8pm Shop December deal drops while you can. Lowe's we help you.

[Matt Rogers]

Save Tis the season for identity theft. This time of year most of us are checking off our holiday gift lists. But guess what? Identity thieves have lists too and your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with lifelock. Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself. Even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements. If your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. And all plans are backed by the million dollar protection package. The last thing you want to do this holiday season is face drained accounts who fraudulent loans or other financial losses from identity Theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not Identity theft. With LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code IHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms.

[Bowen Yang]

Apply. I've got Dan Morgan here on the.

[Matt Rogers]

Pod. Say hi.

[Dan Morgan]

Dan. Hey, how's it going.

[Bowen Yang]

Today? It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you.

[Dan Morgan]

Do. I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law.

[Bowen Yang]

Firm. That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many.

[Dan Morgan]

Cases? The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our.

[Bowen Yang]

Clients. Are insurance companies like actually afraid of you.

[Dan Morgan]

Guys? We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large.

[Bowen Yang]

Verdicts. Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an.

[Dan Morgan]

Accident? Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

365.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow. Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the.

[Dan Morgan]

Show. Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near.

[Bowen Yang]

You. If there was blood on the floor, I would have called for.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Rovers. I would think he would. Unless you just didn't care about this guy. No, I guess he's not. I mean he's someone that I can understand people not caring for. Well, this guy's.

[Bowen Yang]

Crazy. And you know, and you know.

[Investigator Bartlett]

He'S probably where he should be and he did horrible things to a ton of.

[Bowen Yang]

People. Yeah, I mean what they've come out with after the fact is like, wow, you know what I've seen on the news and they think there's more.

[Investigator Bartlett]

People. This guy is an evil, evil.

[Bowen Yang]

Person. But you know, my job is to protect everybody and whether no matter what they've done, right, wrong, indifferent, I look after everybody the same way. I'm not vindictive. I never had any special problems with him. I mean, I mean, some inmates are problem inmates. They push your buttons, you know what I mean? And they're, they're trying to get a response. I mean, he never did any of that stuff like say he asked me to Go to the law library. I accommodated him, I put him out. I, you know, I.

[Investigator Bartlett]

I. Okay, well, I think you saw it. I think. I don't know if you thought it was blood. You may have thought this is. I'm just, I'm just telling you what I think, okay. Because I don't know how someone could miss that. It's humongous. I mean, I went to the scene, I worked the scene, I documented it. That's a huge blood.

[Bowen Yang]

Stain.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Huge. I mean, just a drip pattern alone is like a foot and a half in diameter. It's huge. And then you got the big blood flow coming off of it. The big blood flow pattern that's probably three feet long, if not more.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Actually.

[Investigator Bartlett]

So. And it's. It's not like it's blood on, like, a cherry wood floor. It's blood on, like, a really light blue or gray or whatever it is floor. They contrast so much. There's nothing else in that cell that's that dark other than the blanket. But it's away from the blanket. Well, yeah, yeah, it's on the floor. And I don't know how a person could, A reasonable person, especially someone whose job is to look into cells and make sure that nothing's weird in there could miss that. I can understand missing it once, maybe missing it twice, maybe three, four. I don't know how you could miss it. Eight, nine, whatever times it was. I can go back and I got them all logged in, but I didn't put. I didn't number them, but there's several times you walked by there and looked. And when I can first see the blood stain within a minute after the bloodstain pools, and it gets, like, towards the end where it stops. A minute later, you walk by and you look right in there, and it looks like your head doesn't just go like this. It goes down and you see it, and then your head whips back and keep on going. And then for some reason, you don't do another check for like an hour and like 15 minutes. And you're supposed to do checks every hour or every twice an hour. And you almost went. You basically almost. You basically skipped two checks. So, I mean, these are things that are, you know, when I went back to look at this video, I'm like, that's not right. That's not right. This isn't adding up. And then that check that you go after, you miss other two, when you walk by it, you cover your.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Face.

[Investigator Bartlett]

What? Yeah, you put. Well, you put your hand to your face. I don't know if you're covering it, but you put your hand to your face as you're walking. Like as soon as you get to it, you put your hand up. As you walk past, your hand drops. And you don't do that any other time in the video. So I think that might be a subconscious thing that your mind's doing because you don't want to see that there. I think you think you saw something and then you're basically trying not to see it because you don't want it to be blood. Because I don't know if. Because, you know, it is dark. I don't know. It looks like a pool. It could be a.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Pool.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Whatever. He could have threw up, I don't.

[Bowen Yang]

Know.

[Investigator Bartlett]

But it's not just that. I talked to other people.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

And.

[Investigator Bartlett]

I was told that a couple days later at like 3 o', clock when.

[Bowen Yang]

Smart was.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Leaving, when, after he broke you out or whatever, as he's leaving, you guys converse right there at the door and you say, hey, I. I saw a pool of something. I didn't know what it was. I didn't, you know, I just saw a pool of something. I didn't think it was a big deal and. And that's what it.

[Bowen Yang]

Is.

[Investigator Bartlett]

No. Well, I've got people telling me this and it kind of lines up with everything else that I see on the video. And it's kind of hard for me to ignore what I.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

See. Here's what was found in Keyes's cell the morning that corrections officers discovered that he was dead. Keys was laying face down in his lower bunker bed, a concrete slab with a mattress pad on it. He was completely covered by bedding, which were almost entirely saturated with blood. He'd used a bed sheet to tie a ligature around his neck. His hand was slightly outstretched, covered in blood, next to two coffee cups and three milk cartons which had all been filled with blood. Directly above the mugs and cartons on the wall, Keyes had handwritten caracol in about 3 inch block lettering. Adjacent to that, on the concrete divider which connected his bed to his desk, Keyes had written in four lines of three inch lettering, if only the blood was mine, I would spill it. But that's not all that Keyes wrote on the walls to the left of Caracol, Keyes had written several other things before trying to wipe them away. You can even see blood smears where he had clearly been leaning against the wall to write. There are multiple writings which are smeared in and by blood. The most legible is the number 5, which appears to be followed by the number 4, as in 54, as in so let me understand this viewer found out to be one of our famous American serial killers who had killed say 50 people. Something keys wrote using the screen name is it just months before he was arrested while arguing in the comments section of an Al Jazeera article. On another section of the wall, there's crew drawings. Next to them you can see what is very likely the word fuck. If I'm being honest, for the most part, it's basically a Rorschach. For now, you can see whatever it is you're looking for. The only crystal clear words are the ones you already know and the number five, maybe the number 54. But since receiving these, the FBI has had them in half enhanced. And Agent Hala told Joshua from somewhere in the pines that we'd be very excited with what they found. And yes, we've already put in a FOIA for these newly enhanced images. Below Keys's body was his suicide letter. The nonsense stream of consciousness scribblings you've heard a couple times before. Crumpled up and completely soaked in blood. So much so that it's amazing that they were able to transcribe 98% of it. Keyes had used miscellaneous paperwork to cover the drain in his cell, presumably so the blood would pool. His murder weapon, a makeshift knife made out of a razor blade attached to a small pencil and then extended with a rolled up card. The card was from Kimberly. It read, I thought you would like a card from the pugs letter from the human to follow soon. Xxxx Kimberly. In the trash can was a printed out picture of Sarah kissing Keys on the cheek. It had blood stains all along the edges. Keyes's causes of death were deemed to be a combination of blood loss from the cut to his wrist, strangulation from the ligature made out of bed sheets and asphyxiation from being face down in the pillow. According to an interview with Another corrections officer, C.O. nelson Robinson, he had allowed Keys to have a razor on his last shift day prior to the suicide, which he thought was either November 27th or 28th. So before Keys final FBI interview. And although Keyes had been on suicide prevention for quite some time, Robinson says that he was told that Keys had been taken off suicide watch, which meant Keyes could now access both pencils and razors. But Robinson swears that he made Keys Keyes check the razor blade back in after shaving. He doesn't believe that the razor he allowed Keyes to use was the razor that Keyes used to kill himself. Other than CO Jacobson receiving administrative leave, it's unclear whether he or Robinson were ever.

[Bowen Yang]

Penalized. The clock's running out on December deal drops at Lowe's. But there's still time to wrap up something they'll love. Shop great gifts under $50 like the Dewalt Elite Series 100 piece bit set. Plus if you order by 2pm you get same day delivery by 8pm Shop December deal drops while you can. Lowe's. We help you.

[Matt Rogers]

Save. Tis the season for identity theft. This time of year most of us are checking off our holiday gift lists. But guess what? Identity thieves have lists too. And your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss by yourself. Even if you keep an eye on your bank and credit card statements. If your identity is stolen, your own US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. And all plans are backed by the million dollar protection package. The last thing you want to do this holiday season is face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or other financial losses from identity theft all alone. Make this season about joy, not identity theft. With Lifelock, save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off terms.

[Bowen Yang]

Apply. I've got Dan Morgan here on the.

[Matt Rogers]

Pod. Say hi.

[Dan Morgan]

Dan. Hey, how's it going.

[Bowen Yang]

Today? It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you.

[Dan Morgan]

Do. I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law.

[Bowen Yang]

Firm. That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many.

[Dan Morgan]

Cases? The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our.

[Bowen Yang]

Clients. Are insurance companies like actually afraid of you.

[Dan Morgan]

Guys? We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Verdicts.

[Bowen Yang]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an.

[Dan Morgan]

Accident? Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

365.

[Bowen Yang]

Wow. Dan Morgan from Morgan & Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by.

[Dan Morgan]

The show. Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Office near. The night before Keyes died by suicide, he had been using what's referred to as the law library, a room in the prison where Keyes was chained to the floor and could use a laptop provided to him by his public defender for discovery purposes. According to interviews, Keyes time in that law library wasn't generally monitored. The laptop wasn't monitored at all as it was considered privileged material. What this means for us is that Keyes had Internet access while in prison. He could read news about himself or his cases and presumably continue commenting on stories, message boards.

[Bowen Yang]

And blogs. Instead of going directly into to the crime that you're accused of and things like that. If you could just visit with myself and my lieutenant so we can learn more about you from your perspective, I'd appreciate it. Where you want me to start? Wherever you want to. Let's just communicate here. Let's just talk. They got coffee and. You.

[Investigator Bartlett]

Got time. And I.

[Bowen Yang]

Got time. You.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Got time.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm good. We'll be here as long as you want us here. But we want to know who you are. You've already read a lot about me. Well, I've read what other people have written about you, and I've read blogs and I've looked on the Internet, but I haven't heard. From your perspective, you're talking to me about what's on the Internet. This is a pretty big deal. What, so my name's out there now, attached to this? Yeah. Anchorage did a press release. Who? When? Anchorage PD A couple.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Days ago, When Keyes was first arrested, he was terrified at the idea that people would know who he was and what he did. That clip from a March 17 interview is the most emotive I've ever heard him. And just hours before he ended his own life, he was essentially Googling himself, reading stories about himself, looking up the progress in his case. He had nothing left to gain and nothing left to lose. The world knew who he was or was about to. He had given enough, and so there was nothing else that he was willing to give. Fortunately, the FBI found more. We found more. We all continue to find more. And that's just what Halle gave me during our interview last year. One more bit of information to send us out into.

[Bowen Yang]

The world. There's a. It's a private residence, but it's near Little Oklahoma, which I never heard about until this particular time. But it's an area in Port Angeles, so you can find it on the map to kind of get an overview of like, okay, it's this area and reveal the address or anything like that. But some of the cold case detectives were following up on some leads and stuff and found this particular residence. It was associated with a friend of Keys. And so and so we've been invited to go out and take a look at the area in the future and just check it out for whatever may become significant from that. But that was something new that we learned from this cold case. It's been working on this. Thousands of ghosts in the daylight Walking through my hometown square Thousands of faces you touched on Thousands you lost in the fire Knock knock on the door of the house sitting you the air grows cold round me and you when it's cold you know that he's there. Night. Thousands of ghosts in the darkness Lost in a.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Strange neighborhood. This episode was written, researched, edited and produced by me, josh hallmark, with additional research by jordan taylor and research assistance by shayna walensky and michelle tooker. This episode featured FBI special agent ted halla and it was made possible by the following patreon, amy basil, kendall c. Heather horton, whedon, sherry dee d, dale axton, stephanie taylor, lydia rodarte, quayle, shelley, drew vipond, amelia hancock, christina sisson, nicole and dennis henry, jillian natale, lana holliday, Tuesday woodworth, zach ignatowitz, warren, kathleen studer, annette l. Casey jensen richardson sc benjamin chopa, fong, tristan, nicole ashfish, becky c. Pink, jen j, corey deatley, robin carol, lisa, jordan m. Kate luzier, john comrie, kathy nation, carrie jordan t, bethany heintz, lauren ferry, emily payne, tori meyer, sabrina abbott, megan inman, ashley couplin, michael randall and duane c. Thank you to true crime bullshit's newest patreon supporters, ryan s. Brooke s. Dr. Badasse, tori w, sarah j, misty c, jacob f, tom m, tracy d, harley o, kaylee b. Ll zeal and eva. To support the investigation, go to patreon.comstudiobothand this episode included music by radical face, sero, helve, creed and nocturne with featured music.

[Bowen Yang]

By starz. I died so I could have you I died so I could hold you I died so I could have you I died so I could hold you I died so I could have you I died so I could hold you. Sad so I could have you I thought yeah I died so I could have you I died so I could have you I died so I could want you I died so I could hide you Thousands of ghosts in the daylight One day we all disappear we'll walk till we get to the harbor. They'll never know we.

[Matt Rogers]

Were here. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and.

[Bowen Yang]

Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and.

[Matt Rogers]

Bowen Yang. Hey, Bowen, it's.

[Bowen Yang]

Gift season. Ugh, stressing me out. Why are the people I.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

Love so hard to.

[Matt Rogers]

Shop for? Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired. Except for the guide we.

[Bowen Yang]

Made in partnership with Marshall's, where Premium Gifts Meet.

[Matt Rogers]

Incredible Value. It's giving gifts with categories like Best Gifts for the mom whose.

[Bowen Yang]

Idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto, or Best Gifts for Me that were so thoughtful I really.

[Matt Rogers]

Shouldn'T have. Check out the guide on.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

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[Matt Rogers]

At Marshalls. This time of year, most of us are checking off our holiday gift lists. But identity thieves have lists, too, and your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with LifeLock LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, LifeLock will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Make this season about joy, not Identity theft. With LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year at LifeLock.com iHeart.

[Narrator / Josh Hallmark]

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