← True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation
True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation
Israel Keyes Interview: June 1, 2012
02:02:51
In this interview, Keyes meets with Detective Murtie from Essex PD to discuss the Currier's double-murder. He also offers insights into his strategies, his home abductions, his MO, his time in Vermont, and more. 10th Anniversary Retreat...
Loading summary
Transcript746 lines
- [00:01]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
What's going on everyone? It's bluff here. And you know what's more American than America's 250th birthday? Supporting American owned companies like Spinquest, America's number one social casino with over a thousand games like live dealer, Blackjack and craps. They're offering new users a 30 coin
- [00:18]
Israel Keys
package for just $10. Go to spinquest.com and sign up today.
- [00:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.
- [00:31]
Mary Morrissey
When you're a maintenance engineer in a beverage manufacturing plant, you keep production lines
- [00:36]
Israel Keys
moving and quality on track because there
- [00:39]
Mary Morrissey
is no room for slowdowns. With Grainger's vast selection of high quality motors, sensors, belts and hard to find parts, you can get what you need fast and all in one place so
- [00:49]
Josh (Podcast Host/Advertiser)
nothing gets in the way of getting the job done.
- [00:52]
Mary Morrissey
Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by
- [00:57]
Israel Keys
Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [01:01]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
This is one of the most spectacular venues with all kinds of character and hospitality scenery.
- [01:08]
Israel Keys
These people in this Kittedas Valley, they love when you come to see what they have to offer.
- [01:13]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I'm J.J. harris, an Ellensburg Rodeo Clown and I want to invite you to the rodeo. Come hang out with us in Ellensburg. Great rodeo, Great time. Two performances on Saturday. One is the Extreme Bulls of the Year event. Do not miss The Ellensburg Rodeo August 2020 29th through September 1st. We'll see you there.
- [01:40]
Josh (Podcast Host/Advertiser)
This is a studio both and production. As you know we are celebrating my 10th year in podcasting and we're capping that celebration off with a three day event here in the Berkshires over the weekend of September 25th. There will be studio sessions, live shows, a Bravo Town hall, Berkshire activities like foraging, wine tasting, museum visits and more and tons of special guests. We'll do the Karen and Ellen letters live starring Amanda Jacobson from Wine and Crime, Tawny Plattus, famous renowned voice actress and Chris Brayton from the More Gooder Than Podcast. I'll be doing a very special first time ever live show of the Pact with special guest Patrick Hynes from True Crime Obsessed. We'll do a panel discussion on Unsafe Spaces featuring me, Kaz, Charlie Worrell from Crimelines and Justin and Aaron from Generation Y. There will even be a live episode of our Americana and a very cool playlist by TCB episode featuring me and the entire research team. Guests will get to check out my new speakeasy the Green Room, tour the studio and get elbow deep in the research process. This is a once in a lifetime event where you'll get to enjoy the Berkshires, share fun activities with the podcast hosts you love the most and really dig into podcasting and all the shows I have produced along with my friends. Book your tickets today by clicking the link in the show notes and if that doesn't work for you, why don't you think about if not now, when, for example, we are going to the Galapagos Islands January 11th through 17th. Haven't you always wanted to go? And if not now, when will you go? And wouldn't you rather go during the winter here in the States to escape to the warmth with like minded new friends who love true crime bullshit as much as you do, but also love the experience of travel, seeing animals and getting away from it all these trova trips have made me lifelong friends. They are such a great way to meet new people, get out of your world and shake things up. And like I said, if you're not going to go to the Galapagos now, will you ever book your trip today by clicking the link in the show notes
- [04:06]
Special Agent Frank Russo
the Special Agency Payne with the FBI Today is Friday, June 1st times approximately 9:15am by my watch. Following will be a interview with Ariel Keys at the FBI office in Anchorage with male btfo Jeff Bell, USA Frank Russo, Israel how you doing this morning? All right, Israel, we're going to run through kind of what's become our standard stuff here.
- [04:50]
Israel Keys
Great.
- [04:50]
Special Agent Frank Russo
You may know it better than I do. Let me know if I mess anything up. I know we covered some of this
- [04:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
stuff at the jail, but we're gonna
- [05:00]
Special Agent Frank Russo
run through it again quickly here. When we came over and picked you up this morning, did we interrupt a meeting with your attorney?
- [05:06]
Israel Keys
No.
- [05:07]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Okay. And you're here voluntarily, is that correct?
- [05:10]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [05:12]
Special Agent Frank Russo
You understand we can't discuss anything to do with the Samantha Conan case, and if you do, then we'll have to stop the interview and we'll have to take you back to jail. You understand that?
- [05:20]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [05:23]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Run through your Miranda rights. I know we've done this a number of times. Before we ask any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, we will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. And if you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering Any. Do you understand these rights as I've explained them to you?
- [05:52]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [05:53]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [05:53]
Special Agent Frank Russo
And with that explanation in mind, are you willing to waive these rights and talk to us here today?
- [05:57]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [06:00]
Special Agent Frank Russo
I know you've got at least one, possibly two standby attorneys appointed in this matter, that being Rich Kirtner and Jacqueline Walsh. Do you want either of those two attorneys or any other attorney present today?
- [06:11]
Israel Keys
No.
- [06:13]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Are you on any medications or other substances?
- [06:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
No.
- [06:17]
Special Agent Frank Russo
And are you having any difficulty understanding where you're at or what's going on?
- [06:20]
Israel Keys
No.
- [06:21]
Special Agent Frank Russo
All righty. I think that covers it. Unless I miss something.
- [06:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
No.
- [06:24]
Special Agent Frank Russo
All right. Okay. Israel just wanted to touch base before we call Vermont in on this. Jeff called and expressed that, you know, obviously, you're not prepared to talk about the New York victim. Victim, New York. Right. And you had some questions that, you see still you cleared up on your end.
- [06:45]
Israel Keys
Right.
- [06:45]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Is there any questions that we can answer for you about that before we go into Vermont?
- [06:52]
Israel Keys
No, the main issues I'm dealing with on other things that, you know, the other victims that we haven't really talked about is some things I was having my investigators look into and, like, still waiting to hear back on my status with the marshals, but that's. Yeah, it's all still pending at this time, as far as I know.
- [07:23]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
So.
- [07:24]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Okay.
- [07:25]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I just. I don't know. I. I'm still trying to. To. To figure out if there's anything that can be done about any of that, I guess. And then, you know, I mean, one way or the other, it's gonna. We'll be able to talk about that stuff. But I just want to find out what my options are as far as a couple other things. First, a couple things on that.
- [07:52]
Special Agent Frank Russo
I understand. You know, you certainly have a right and can and should consult with whoever you want on this. If there's anything you. If you have any questions about things that we can sort of get answers to, we're happy to do that. Especially, like you're saying there's something about the marshals, and, you know, we can obviously ask them whatever, you know, questions you have.
- [08:17]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
So that's number one.
- [08:17]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah.
- [08:18]
Israel Keys
And I. I mean, I don't. I'm hesitant to go that route
- [08:27]
Special Agent Frank Russo
as
- [08:27]
Israel Keys
far as, like, trading information for what status they put me on, because,
- [08:35]
Mary Morrissey
I
- [08:36]
Israel Keys
mean, I will if I have to, if I think it'll work, but for now, I'm waiting to hear back.
- [08:43]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there's anything we can do about that kind of stuff, quite frankly, because the Marshals are very, you know, they're very territorial about security, as you probably can guess. And then it's even worse. It's a little more complicated than that because the marshals literally just rent space from the state right in the facility Department of Corrections. So in some senses, they have their own rules, but then they also have to live in the Department of Corrections rules. And so there's a couple entities that,
- [09:11]
Israel Keys
you know, that's the impression I'm getting. And I just. I haven't heard back from all the parties involved yet.
- [09:17]
Special Agent Frank Russo
So I can just tell you just from having dealt with inmate situations before, that it's a headache, and there's really not a lot we can do about it. If they have real security concerns, they basically say, butt out. This is our business. But you never can tell. So if there's anything you need from us with respect to that, we can certainly try to get answers. The second part of that is. Yeah, I mean, I understand what you're saying is, look, you just need to kind of dot your I's and cross your T's on the New York thing. Correct?
- [09:51]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Right.
- [09:51]
Special Agent Frank Russo
And, you know, I think I can make that clear to Vermont. I mean, I told them basically, when they relate to me, he didn't want to talk about anything else because they always want a status of where are you? On other things? Because that's part of their letter. You know, they get a little bit antsy, so to speak, and they have their own reasons for that. Maybe they'll express it to you on the phone. So I don't want to speak for them, but, you know, just. Just know that they obviously have some concerns in that regard. I can do my best to reassure them that it's, you know, you're going to live up to your end of the deal.
- [10:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Right.
- [10:24]
Special Agent Frank Russo
But, you know, just sort of as a word of warning, when we talk to them, that may keep. That may come up.
- [10:30]
Israel Keys
Right. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what they're going to ask. I do have. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this, you know, some. Since we discussed having this conference call with them. I have some concerns as to why they would even want to talk to me about the courier case, considering that we've already had extensive interviews on it with FBI and it's all been recorded. So I'm a little bit leery about what their motivations are in asking me additional questions and
- [11:02]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
what they plan to
- [11:02]
Israel Keys
do with that information that they get. So I just. I'm not I don't know. I know we're dealing with, like, different jurisdiction issues here, and I don't know, like, what. What the rules are. Rule game rules are going to be as far as the information that they get off of this conference call versus the information they got from you, you know, like secondhand information. So ask them.
- [11:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I mean, what I can tell you one.
- [11:26]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Let me. Let me tell you exactly, because I've had this conversation with them, too, because, you know, I'm concerned about that because we don't want to mess up things. We're working on other crimes, right. So the first thing, you know, they said is, look, you know, we have to give this house back to the Currier family because it's, I don't know, somehow in foreclosure, and they're paying on it, and they've been maintaining it as a crime scene. And so they're just incurring an enormous amount of debt that they're gonna. It's going underwater.
- [11:53]
Israel Keys
Right.
- [11:53]
Special Agent Frank Russo
So from that perspective, they want to, you know, make sure. I think primarily, like, you know, they all want to have comfort that you're the right guy on this so they
- [12:03]
Israel Keys
can release the house and they don't have to.
- [12:05]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah.
- [12:06]
Israel Keys
Worry about continuing their investigation.
- [12:08]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Exactly. And hearing it from us is one thing, and even listening to tape is another thing. But asking, you know, questions yourselves, I think that helps them. Number one. Two, you know, I mean, and their perspective is, you know, they don't know what's gonna happen with this. And, you know, certainly if things go sideways and things go down the tubes, they want to just sort of make sure they've confirmed what you've said, you know, right now they're on our side on this. I have no doubt about that. But, you know, just in case they never, you know, they never, you know, can be careful enough. And number three, let me tell you, this other thing I think I touched on it once is it's one thing, you know, when I guess you hear about, oh, you know, this is what happened in your case. These investigators, they've been working it, they've been wondering, and it haunts them, you know. It does. I've had a case like that, always have the wonder, you know, what happened. And I think it helps them, even psychologically, to kind of ask the questions themselves that they've been wanting to ask since day one, since they've been trying to, you know, theorize what happened here. So sometimes it's just like, you know, hey, let's all play together type of thing. I Think it helps keep them, you know, on board when they get to ask these questions. They feel like they're engaged. They feel like they're more part of the team, which they are. You know, as long as we're going with that letter.
- [13:25]
Mary Morrissey
Right.
- [13:25]
Special Agent Frank Russo
I have no concerns about them. I've been talking to the attorney over there, Mary Morrissey. I talked to her right before we got in here. The people in that room, I think we can even clarify, are all going to be sort of bound by that letter. And you can make that clear if you want. At the outset, you figure out who's in the room, but everybody in there, we've been assured that they're not going off the deep end. Otherwise we'd never be doing this. We don't want to screw up anything that works.
- [13:53]
Israel Keys
Yeah, no, I can understand, like the house, the crime scene and releasing that. That makes sense to me. The rest of it I'm a little bit leery about. Like, if they're going to ask me specific questions, they're basically going to have me recap the crime, the motive, and, you know, what happened blow by blow. I don't. I don't know if I want to get into all that. I. Because I don't know if I trust them with that information. But if they just want. If they just want confirmation that I'm the right guy, if they just want details on the house or the crime scene of, like, the house itself without going into what happened in there and
- [14:31]
Special Agent Frank Russo
stuff the vehicle with certain other things, describe the vehicle, that kind of thing, like colors in the house. It just kind of helps them, I think. And I know Officer Bell talked to them just to make sure, because they gave us an outline. You know, we basically said, here's what we, you know, here's what we think is probably relevant for you, and here's what we think Israel would be uncomfortable with. So it's not like they're just going off on their own and doing this. And we told them quite frankly, hey, you know, you can ask the questions all you want. You may not get all the answers right.
- [15:02]
Josh (Podcast Host/Advertiser)
Hey, it's Josh and I am here to talk to you about skincare. So much goes into it. Serums, treatments, facials. We spend so much time and money on what we put on our skin. But the thing touching your skin for eight hours every single night is your bedding. Bole and branch bedding is incredible for your skin. From their organic cotton sheets to their breathable pillows and comforters, it's made with ultra clean materials that are gentle on your skin and free from harsh chemicals. The fabrics are breathable, soft and temperature regulating so you're not overheating or tossing and turning. And when your bed is made with better materials, it supports a kind of sleep that actually helps your skin recover overnight. A lot of people, including me, started with the signature sheets and then added the matching pillowcases and a waffle blanket, also including me, because that combination makes the whole bed feel softer and cooler. In fact, I was using linen sheets before, which I love, but during the summer they are so hot they don't breathe and you just wake up feeling gross and sticky. But these new signature sheets from Bol branch keep me cool throughout the night and feel so nice on my skin. Sleep cooler this summer with Bole and Branch during their annual summer event. For a limited time, get 20% off site wide at bolandbranch.com TrueCrimeBS with code TrueCrimeBS that's BULL and Branch B O L L A N D branch.com TrueCrimeBS code TrueCrimeBS to take 20% off bolandbranch.com TruecrimeBS code TrueCrimeBS exclusions apply studio both and is sponsored by BetterHelp. We talk about mental health openly now quite a bit. But asking for help can still feel really hard. And BetterHelp's latest research confirms that. BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report surveyed 2,000Americans and revealed that 85% of Americans believe that getting support is wise, and yet 74% say society discourages people from doing so. And I can say I've seen this reflected in my own life, with my own friends. So many talk about how they should see a therapist or want to see a therapist, and yet so few actually do take those steps to see a therapist. I cannot recommend betterhelp enough. I've talked about it a lot over the years. It has made my life better, easier, less complicated. It's made me a better communicator. It's given me way more patience. I could go on and on and on. We talk about how important mental health is. Everyone agrees we should see a therapist. So why aren't you? Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com TCB that's better. H E L P.com TCB okay, that's fine.
- [18:13]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I just wanted and we told them that you're pretty clear if you
- [18:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
don't want to answer something you're pretty much going to say, yeah. So they don't have any expectations of, you know.
- [18:24]
Israel Keys
All right.
- [18:25]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Doesn't mean they won't try. I mean, we've tried.
- [18:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Right. The investigator just wants some ownership in his own investigation.
- [18:32]
Israel Keys
Has the investigator had heard all the interviews?
- [18:38]
Special Agent Frank Russo
He's listened to one, I think, in its entirety, which is one that we
- [18:42]
Israel Keys
did several weeks, just you and I. And so they know.
- [18:47]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I don't think they're going to ask you detailed questions because they know them.
- [18:50]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah.
- [18:50]
Mary Morrissey
Okay.
- [18:51]
Special Agent Frank Russo
And some of the other things. And that's why if they're asking questions that are, you know, things you talked about before, they may not have heard the other ones because you talked about a bunch of different things. And those right there, I don't know what they have access to over there. I think I know they had access to this one because, you know, that was sort of at the time when we got into this.
- [19:07]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
But they don't.
- [19:08]
Mary Morrissey
All of them.
- [19:09]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
They basically had to sit there with an FBI agent and they would let them listen to that one. They don't have access to anything else right now, so.
- [19:14]
Israel Keys
Right, right.
- [19:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
That's why.
- [19:16]
Israel Keys
Okay. All right.
- [19:17]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right.
- [19:17]
Israel Keys
Makes sense.
- [19:18]
Special Agent Frank Russo
So who is. Lieutenant Murty is the guy who's gonna be asking the questions? We can call.
- [19:23]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I think it's M U R T I E Murky.
- [19:25]
Special Agent Frank Russo
So, yeah, we can identify. Do you have a number?
- [19:28]
Israel Keys
I don't.
- [19:30]
Special Agent Frank Russo
It's 802.
- [19:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You have to.
- [19:33]
Israel Keys
91.
- [19:33]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah.
- [19:39]
Special Agent Frank Russo
65 2.
- [19:42]
Israel Keys
I guess you don't have to do 9 1.
- [19:43]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, you do.
- [19:48]
Special Agent Frank Russo
652-0390.
- [19:51]
Mary Morrissey
There you go. Hi, Hughie's Mary Morris to the State Attorney's office. I'm not available to take a call right now. If you want to leave a message, I'll try to get back to you as soon as I can. Thank you very much and have a nice day.
- [20:06]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I was going to leave one saying. Okay.
- [20:08]
Israel Keys
This was Anchorage. You missed our call.
- [20:18]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Hey, Mary, it's Frank. We're trying to call you on the desk line. Okay, we'll call right now.
- [20:29]
Israel Keys
Okay.
- [20:30]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Be that lucky.
- [20:34]
Mary Morrissey
Mary Morrissey.
- [20:35]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Hey, Mary, it's Frank Russo. Jeff Bell, Steve Payne and Israel Keys here.
- [20:42]
Israel Keys
We're calling from.
- [20:43]
Mary Morrissey
Thank you. I'm here in my office in Vermont with Lt. George Murty, who is in charge of the Courier investigation for the Essex Police Department.
- [20:55]
Special Agent Frank Russo
And just to clarify One thing that Mr. Keys was concerned about before we got in here. He just wanted to confirm that basically the, you know, the letter that he saw last Meeting. I mean, that applies to Lieutenant Murty, too. You guys are all under one umbrella, so to speak.
- [21:12]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
That is correct.
- [21:14]
Mary Morrissey
The letter that I sent or that I provided to you, that I believe you've given to Mr. Keys, but would bind Chittenden county, including all of the departments within Chittenden County. How our system works is that we don't have town prosecutors, we have a county prosecutor. So my office is the prosecutor for Chittenden County. There's nobody else to file charges in Chittenden county but us and the Attorney General's office. In limited circumstances. But they're not part of this investigation. They don't know. They're not aware of this.
- [21:44]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Okay. Fair enough. Israel, do you have any questions before we get started?
- [21:50]
Israel Keys
No, I'm good.
- [21:52]
Special Agent Frank Russo
One thing you should know is that obviously Lieutenant Murty also has been. Spends the majority of his time at the dump site. He could probably give you a better picture of what's going on there if you want. At the end, you know, he sort of knows what he's dealing with out there.
- [22:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And maybe you guys just introduce yourself to him and let him know who you are.
- [22:10]
Mary Morrissey
My name is Mary Morrissey. I'm a prosecutor in Chittenden County. I'm the Chief Deputy of Major Crimes. I've been working on this case with Lt. Murty since the morning that the couriers were reported missing last June. So I've been assigned to this case since that day, and I've been in the office for over 15 years.
- [22:34]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Mr. Keys. Should I call you Israel, or would you rather I call you Mr. Keys?
- [22:40]
Israel Keys
Israel is fine.
- [22:41]
Mary Morrissey
Okay.
- [22:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Call me George. I'm. I'm the Detective Lieutenant at the Essex Police Department in charge of the Criminal Investigation Unit. Our police department is, as you might imagine, a small town. We have 27 officers in our police department. I've been there 28 years, and frankly, I've never seen anything like this. So if you. If I don't appear to have everything totally at my command, please understand that I have been the case manager of the courier case since June. And I have some questions regarding the house and the car that, from what I understand, and communicating with Frank and Jeff and Steve, they tell me that you're willing to help me corroborate some details and get some information from you that will let me know that obviously you are the person who has been in the house and in the car, and you know things that nobody else would know unless they had been in that position. Is that correct?
- [23:59]
Israel Keys
Yes, that's correct.
- [24:00]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, thank you. I mean, do you want to start out by hearing about Coventry, or are you interested in that?
- [24:10]
Israel Keys
Yeah, that's. Yeah, we can start with that.
- [24:12]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, let's see. Today will conclude our fourth week up there. They, as you probably know, they demolished the house that you had referred to in late October. And obviously it wasn't until April that we found out that this had been the. I guess the place where those people were left. So, fortunately, the landfill in Coventry, which is gigantic, has kept. They keep engineered records of where all their trash goes. And, I mean, this is stuff I never thought of when I thought of a dump. But they take aerial photographs, they do gps, so. And the dates, the probable dates that that trash were dumped had been recorded and placed in record as to a specific area where they would be. Now, having said that, they keep good records. The area that's possible is at least the size of a football field. And it is. It is probably a good six feet deep. They mix in all sorts of nasty stuff to help decomposition in that area. And what we have to do is we have to rely on heavy equipment to dig all this stuff up, lay it out on a flat area, and we have to go through it with rakes, basically. And it's a very, very. It's like an archaeological dig, sort of. And it kind of is, in a lot of ways. We had a. We had a forensic anthropologist who works for the Smithsonian Institute up there advising us on the best way to go about this. And we, at this point, to date, after four weeks, have probably cleared from like 20 to 25% of that area. So, I mean, could we find those people tomorrow? Well, I mean, next Monday. Yeah, but it could also take another six weeks. So, you know, if you can just picture, it's not a great job to have, but, you know, obviously it's something that needs to get done.
- [26:50]
Israel Keys
All right, I appreciate that.
- [26:52]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Any questions about that or anything else that. Before I start asking you about the house and stuff, how many people do
- [27:00]
Israel Keys
you have working sorting through the trash that's dug up and who are. Are they with your local police department or are they specifically trained for that or what? I'm just curious how many people know what's being searched for?
- [27:17]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
We have people from my agency probably at any given time. I have two people that I can put up there. Usually it's myself and another person, and we have one person that I can rotate in and out. The Vermont State Police usually puts about five people into that mix, and the FBI puts in about 20 people. So we have probably 25 people going in a line through the trash that's been laid out. What they are told at the briefing is that they are searching for the remains of the couriers. You know, that's. That's basically it. So they're not given case details specifically. You know, occasionally some of the folks have been involved from the FBI and may have been involved in other aspects of the investigation. So they, you know, they might have more detail, but I think everything's being kept pretty quiet. My understanding from talking to Jeff and Steve is one of your major concerns about your name coming up in the media or anything to expose you to, you know, to the connection to this. So I think we're certainly well aware of that here in our office, but I think the FBI is trying to keep a tight lid on that even in their own office as well.
- [28:56]
Israel Keys
All right, I appreciate that, and I don't have any other questions about it.
- [29:00]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Now, I did listen to your interview that was recorded on May 8, where you go into most of the details about going into the house and taking those people away and going up to the farmhouse. But, you know, I guess every time you hear something, it sparks another four or five questions. So please bear with me if I ask something that you feel you've already answered. Now, you mentioned in your interview that you said you checked out the neighborhood where the house was prior to. I guess, to gaining entry to that. Can you explain a little bit more about what you meant by checking out the neighborhood? And was it in daylight or was it just before you actually made entry?
- [30:00]
Israel Keys
I was walking around the general neighborhood and getting a layout, and it was. It was just prior. It was probably between the hours of about 9pm and the time that I actually went into the house.
- [30:18]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, so it sounds. Probably was just getting dark or was it dark at the time?
- [30:23]
Israel Keys
It was dark.
- [30:25]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Do you remember the weather?
- [30:27]
Israel Keys
It was raining. It was raining really hard that night.
- [30:30]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, was it raining when you checked it out? Because
- [30:35]
Israel Keys
I believe the. At the time that I had chosen that neighborhood, the rain had stopped and it was just really damp out, really wet.
- [30:48]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. And you knowing that neighborhood, it's. I don't know. I guess it was a little surprising to me how little room, you know, between houses. Did that concern you at all?
- [31:10]
Israel Keys
Well, it did concern me. I was. After I had picked out that house, I stayed in the backyard for several hours, probably at least a couple hours waiting till the rest of the neighborhood had gone to sleep.
- [31:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now, had you seen those two people at any time? When you were checking out the neighborhood or anything, Anytime before you entered the house?
- [31:46]
Israel Keys
No.
- [31:47]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. So like when you were okay, no means no. So I guess you didn't see them at the, like the pharmacy or that home? Well, actually it wasn't a Home Depot, it's a Lowe's. But you know, these are, they're some of their favorite places to go to. So I didn't know if you'd seen them then and connected them to the house.
- [32:10]
Israel Keys
No, it was the, the house was picked on the basis of the design of the house, not on my assumption of who might be inside. Really?
- [32:22]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [32:23]
Josh (Podcast Host/Advertiser)
What I love most about summer is how easy everything feels. The days are more relaxed. I find myself reaching for the same comfortable go anywhere pieces again and again. And that's why I love coming back to Quints. They focus on well made essentials that naturally become those everyday staples you live in all season long. And I have been coming back to Quince again and again. I've now purchased several of their 100% organic cotton mesh stitch button up polos for $44.90. They look great. You can wear them around the house or out with friends. They feel good and they're breathable. I've also purchased now several of their Japanese Lotus tees for just $29.90. They have a really good weight to them, the material feels wonderful and they are timeless. Quince's 100% European linen pants and shirts are breathable, they're easy to throw on and the summer upgrade that your rotation needs. And they start at just $34. Everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for exceptional quality and not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. As we've discussed, Quints has become a trusted favorite for everything from home to to travel to everyday essentials. So make your summer wardrobe easier. Go to quince.com tcbs for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.com tcbs for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com tcbs what's up everybody?
- [34:07]
Israel Keys
It's Bretzky and America is turning 250
- [34:10]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
and I can't think of a better
- [34:12]
Israel Keys
way to celebrate that than playing on an American owned social casino. Spinquest.com with all of your favorite games.
- [34:20]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Live craps, bubble craps, live blackjack.
- [34:23]
Israel Keys
There's no better Place to play for free and win real cash prizes.
- [34:27]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Spinquest.com Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. And I know you've been in Vermont at least one other time. Had you ever started formulating your plan back as early as then? Or is this something that I wondered if you were familiar with the neighborhood from your prior visit to Vermont?
- [34:56]
Israel Keys
I had never been in that specific neighborhood before. I'm familiar with the entire area in general, but not that neighborhood specifically? No.
- [35:09]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Do you have family or friends in the Essex area?
- [35:13]
Israel Keys
No.
- [35:14]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, let's see. When you're in the backyard, you mentioned a swimming pool. Are there other items in the backyard that you could tell me that would. That you remember that would corroborate that you knew this backyard?
- [35:34]
Israel Keys
There was a storage shed in the back left hand corner of the yard. There was a. It was a pretty secluded backyard. I believe it had either an alley or road access on the back, and it was fairly well secluded from the neighbors on either side. There were, I believe it was plastic patio furniture that was. On the back deck was an above ground swimming pool. So they had a pretty elaborate deck setup and sliding glass door in the back. And I used one of the plastic patio chairs to. To get into the garage window.
- [36:27]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Oh, okay. So you moved it around to the side of the house where the garage window is?
- [36:33]
Israel Keys
Yeah, there was a fan, A fan running for ventilation in that window, and that's how I got into the garage.
- [36:40]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now do you remember what you did with that fan? Did you put it inside the garage or did you put it outside? What did you do with it?
- [36:48]
Israel Keys
I believe I set it. I think I turned it off and I set it inside. And then I believe when I left the house, I put it back in the window and pretty much had everything set up the way it was when I found it.
- [37:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Yeah. Now in the garage. Well, let me see if I've got this straight. You were in the backyard for second, a couple of hours or a fairly lengthy period of time, just kind of waiting to see what happens at some point in your interview, you mentioned neighbors coming or a neighbor coming out. Was that when you were in the garage or when you were in the backyard?
- [37:36]
Israel Keys
I was in the backyard, I believe when I started noticing that that neighborhood was awake and that they were coming out.
- [37:45]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now is it. Is it the same side of the street on the. The house on the same side as the garage?
- [37:55]
Israel Keys
Right. Yeah.
- [37:56]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right, gotcha. Because I know that did you see anybody else in the neighborhood or is this like the only person at the
- [38:04]
Israel Keys
time that was the only person I saw.
- [38:07]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
They,
- [38:09]
Israel Keys
they had motion activated security lights and they had a large dog that was being let out of the house from time to time. And I believe it was a golden retriever or something. And there was a younger, middle aged guy who was coming out to smoke every now and then. And I had already decided that I was going through the garage window, but I was concerned about him coming out when I was actually going in there that way. And so I remember I timed it so that either went in through the garage either right after he had gone back into the house after a smoke break, or I had timed it to where it seemed like he had gone to bed, wasn't up anymore.
- [38:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I know, don't.
- [38:59]
Israel Keys
I don't remember exactly when I first went into the garage, but I remember once I was in the garage and unlocked the back door. I held off for quite a while before actually breaking into the house. I unlocked the back door to the garage, the man door that went into the backyard. And after that was that I was able to come and go from the garage without having to go through the window.
- [39:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now when you're in the garage, there are cars there, right? Yeah. And did you notice anything unusual in the garage itself?
- [39:45]
Mary Morrissey
No.
- [39:45]
Israel Keys
I mean, it was dark in the garage. It seemed like a pretty typical garage.
- [39:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
There was.
- [39:53]
Israel Keys
I had a light with me, but I wasn't using it that much because there are still people up around and I don't know.
- [40:02]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Now, could you see out the garage door?
- [40:06]
Israel Keys
I don't remember if it had windows in it or not.
- [40:13]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
So you mentioned a crowbar that you took off a hook to smash the window leading into the house. Is that correct?
- [40:25]
Israel Keys
Yeah, it was about a 24 inch crowbar. I think it was hanging on the back wall of the garage to the left of the man door.
- [40:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Were there any other crowbars there that you recall?
- [40:39]
Israel Keys
Seems like there were a few other tools around. There may have been another crowbar, hammer
- [40:44]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
or something, I don't know. All right, did you try to pry the door at all to gain entry, or did you just use the window?
- [40:55]
Israel Keys
Well, it had a storm. It had a storm door that was locked on the exterior of the standard door. And I was able to. To pry the lock of the storm door with my knife. And I was thinking that I was actually surprised that the other door was locked as well. But it was a deadbolt lock, so I knew there wasn't any way I was going to be able to jimmy that lock without breaking the window.
- [41:31]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. So that's something a little new to me that you. I thought that when you got into the wind, in through the window, into the garage, that you were able to just unlock the door going out into the backyard.
- [41:50]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [41:51]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, so I don't understand which door you pried with your knife.
- [41:56]
Israel Keys
There was a storm door between the kitchen and the garage.
- [42:03]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, that's the one you were able to pry with the knife?
- [42:06]
Israel Keys
Yeah, they had it locked. It was a pretty low quality lock on those storm doors.
- [42:12]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Gotcha. Okay, now I understand what you're telling me is you're able to pry the doorknob lock, and then it was also a deadbolt lock attached to that.
- [42:23]
Mary Morrissey
Right.
- [42:23]
Israel Keys
And once I discovered that there was a deadbolt lock on the kitchen door and I knew I would have to break the window, I knew it was going to be loud, so I decided to wait another hour or two until make sure that all the neighbors were asleep or inside. And that's why I ended up unlocking the back door of the garage and just hanging out in the backyard for a while to. Until it got a little bit later.
- [42:52]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And. All right, so you get into the house, you put the light on, like as you're going into the house, or do you, like, I'm wondering, can you see things at that time or do you just make a rush down the hallway?
- [43:12]
Israel Keys
I had my headlamp on.
- [43:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You mentioned that you were wearing a mask.
- [43:20]
Israel Keys
I probably was just over my mouth. Yeah.
- [43:23]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. I'm just a little curious as to. I guess knowing what your intentions were, why you felt you needed a mask.
- [43:37]
Israel Keys
I mostly had the mask on for the time that I was in the backyard in case, I don't know, someone spotted me or someone had cameras. I don't know. I just. I just. Once I decided to.
- [43:52]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Now can you tell me what you. What you recall about the house? Just kind of describe the inside.
- [44:03]
Israel Keys
Yeah. There was immediately through the door from the garage into the kitchen. I believe there was a refrigerator right there. And then you had to take a little bit of a left to go through the kitchen. And then I knew it would. I knew it would be pretty much a straight shot down the hallway to the bedroom. I already knew what bedroom they were in, so. So I was only checking briefly, like looking left and right into the rooms as I passed them on the way to the bedroom to make sure there wasn't anybody else in those rooms. I believe it was a three bedroom house.
- [44:52]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Which bedroom Were they in.
- [44:56]
Israel Keys
Well, as you were, if you're standing on the street facing their house, they were in the bedroom in the front right hand corner.
- [45:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Now you mentioned that it's a three bedroom house and you're correct. So were they both in the same bedroom?
- [45:18]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [45:18]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Because after you tied them up or date and whatever, whatever, you mentioned that you go through the house. Is that correct?
- [45:32]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [45:33]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Did you go into all the other rooms?
- [45:36]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [45:37]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And did you go downstairs?
- [45:39]
Israel Keys
No.
- [45:40]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. So you never even looked into the basement?
- [45:46]
Israel Keys
I honestly, I was not even aware there was a basement.
- [45:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Do you recall going in the bathroom?
- [45:56]
Israel Keys
I'm sure I went in the bathroom.
- [45:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I don't really remember anything. Now that I'm kind of recalling you to the bathroom there. Anything stick out about it that seemed a little unusual?
- [46:14]
Mary Morrissey
No.
- [46:15]
Israel Keys
No.
- [46:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You remember color by any chance?
- [46:18]
Israel Keys
No, I don't remember the color of the bathroom. I believe the only reason I looked into the bathroom was I may have checked the medicine cabinet or something, but I don't.
- [46:30]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. Remember in your interview you mentioned that they might have had some prescriptions like Vicodin or Percocet or something like that. I mean, does that ring a bell with you? Yeah. And you take that, you take those medications?
- [46:48]
Israel Keys
I don't take them personally, No. I took some from the house. Yes.
- [46:53]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Would you sell them or what? I guess it doesn't really matter, but would you mind telling me.
- [47:01]
Israel Keys
I don't really. I guess my thought was that I might sell them. I don't know. I don't really do that kind of. Of stuff. I just grabbed them because I. Because they were there and I mean, I was grabbing a lot of different stuff, so.
- [47:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And when you're. Never mind that. Okay, so let's. So they're in the. They're in the far bedroom and so now they're. You mentioned that they were on the bed in your interview and they're I guess trussed up with. With these cable ties. Yes. Okay. And so at this point you feel comfortable to go through the rest of the house. And you mentioned grabbing some suitcases. Do you recall where you got those suitcases from? About.
- [47:59]
Israel Keys
I believe they were in the bedroom directly adjoining the bedroom that they were sleeping in. I believe they were in a closet and there was a chest of drawers and a lot of other miscellaneous household items in that room.
- [48:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You remember there was one item there that was fairly large and I wondered if you remembered what that was. Next to the bed.
- [48:32]
Israel Keys
Next to the bed in the room they were sleeping in.
- [48:35]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
The other room?
- [48:37]
Israel Keys
No, I don't. I'm not. I remember it was a crowded bedroom and.
- [48:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, but tell me this. You mentioned finding military documents from Bill Currier. Is that the room you found him in? Yes. Okay, and where were they?
- [48:55]
Israel Keys
They weren't documents, but I think I did see some uniform patches or maybe some insignia and metals that were in chest of drawers there that I went through.
- [49:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. All right. And that's the same. You're telling me that's the same room where the suitcases were, right?
- [49:12]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I believe so.
- [49:13]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now, Lorraine's lingerie, that is. Where's that?
- [49:20]
Israel Keys
I believe I got that from a couple different spots in the house. I know I got some of it from that same chest of drawers in that adjoining bedroom.
- [49:30]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [49:31]
Israel Keys
Anywhere else possibly from the room they were sleeping in as well.
- [49:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And you put those in the suitcase?
- [49:41]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I put everything in suitcases.
- [49:43]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right.
- [49:46]
Israel Keys
Forget whatever plans you have this weekend
- [49:48]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
because you're staying at home and playing on Spin Quest.
- [49:51]
Israel Keys
And there's never been a better time to sign up than right now. New users get $30 coin packs for just $10.
- [49:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All the table games you love with
- [50:00]
Israel Keys
hundreds of slot games and real cash Prizes.
- [50:03]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
That's at spinquest.com S P I N Q U-S-T.com Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Let's see. Bear with me for a minute. There's a room, the room on the other side of the hall.
- [50:27]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah.
- [50:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Tell me what you remember about that room.
- [50:32]
Israel Keys
There was a bird came cage in it with a blanket over it.
- [50:37]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Was there a bed in there?
- [50:38]
Israel Keys
I don't remember if there was a bed or a large desk. Again, it was a crowded room. It seems like there were quite a few, quite a bit of stuff in it. And I just did. I remember I got a quick idea of what might be in that room and I didn't really go through it that much. I didn't really figure there would be anything in there.
- [50:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, so tell me this. It sounds like, I mean, you've already got this worked out in your head and you know what you're looking for when you go into the house. So I mean, by the time you go through these other places, have you already found what you wanted to find or are you exploring for things that might interest you or do you already know what you're looking for?
- [51:29]
Israel Keys
Well, everything else that I took was pretty inconsequential. Anything else I was looking for was I already had an idea of the things I might find in the house, which is why I didn't really go through it that thoroughly. If I had had the impression that there were more things of value in the house, I would have gone through it more thoroughly. But everything I found pointed me to the direction that I wasn't going to find anything else of interest to me. So the main reason I was there was for them. So that's not.
- [52:10]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. Okay. Now I know you're a carpenter. Do you build houses?
- [52:15]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [52:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. So I mean, you know, basically style of house and what you can expect to find from a construction aspect and all that stuff. So it sounds to me like nothing in the house really surprised you?
- [52:34]
Israel Keys
No, I don't remember seeing anything unusual. It seemed like a pretty typical ranch style house to me.
- [52:39]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. And in your interview you mentioned that you got jewelry that didn't look like valuable jewelry. You got a couple of cell phones, is that right? Yes. And did you take like the guy's wallet or the woman's handbook or pocketbook or anything like that?
- [53:06]
Israel Keys
Yeah, there was a large. It seemed like a. All of their financial cards and. Identifications and everything. It seems like all that was in one wallet.
- [53:21]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, and that's the one that you took away with you?
- [53:24]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [53:25]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did you ask them about how much money they had in the wallet and PIN numbers and all that stuff?
- [53:32]
Israel Keys
Yes, I did.
- [53:34]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And what did they tell you?
- [53:37]
Israel Keys
I got my main objective, my main concern wasn't with how much money they had in their accounts. It was to make sure that they had given me the correct PIN number for their card.
- [53:51]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Did you ever try to access that?
- [53:52]
Israel Keys
No, I don't think so.
- [53:56]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Is that one of the things you got rid of? Was it New Hampshire or did you get rid of that in the dumpster at the place you were staying?
- [54:03]
Israel Keys
No, the card. The card and the phones I didn't get rid of till New Hampshire.
- [54:09]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, well, let's talk about their car, if you don't mind. You need a break or anything?
- [54:18]
Israel Keys
No, I'm fine.
- [54:19]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Am I? You got. Are you okay with it so far?
- [54:27]
Israel Keys
Yeah, this is fine.
- [54:28]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Good. So, you know, obviously they weren't driving a Bentley. You mentioned that It's a Saturn and two door, four door.
- [54:45]
Israel Keys
I believe it was a four door sedan.
- [54:48]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And I think you mentioned accessing the trunk. So did you do any preparation to the car before you put them in or had you already checked out the car?
- [55:04]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I checked out the car pretty thoroughly before I even decided to break into the house.
- [55:10]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Now, did you adjust seats or anything like that? I'm assuming that you knew where you wanted to put the woman, where you want to put the guy?
- [55:20]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [55:22]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did you. Did you adjust the seats to make that happen or.
- [55:27]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I did have to adjust the seats, I think.
- [55:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And so these people are tied up and I'm assuming hands and feet. Do you cut their feet. Feet loose or something to make it so they can walk out to the car?
- [55:51]
Israel Keys
Their feet weren't tied when I walked them out to the car? No.
- [55:54]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Did they have anything on their feet?
- [56:00]
Israel Keys
Not until I had them in the car.
- [56:04]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. No, I don't mean tying. My thought is you broke the window to get into that house, and now you gotta take these folks out to the car. Did they just walk barefoot across this broken glass?
- [56:20]
Israel Keys
No, I think I let them put on some slippers.
- [56:22]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. And so, I mean, am I corrected that their feet were tied up and that you must have had to untie them to enable them to walk to the car?
- [56:35]
Israel Keys
No, their feet. I don't think their feet were ever tied when they were on the.
- [56:38]
Mary Morrissey
The bed.
- [56:39]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Oh, okay. Just their arms.
- [56:42]
Israel Keys
Yeah, there was. I went through the house really fast. I would go from room to room. Once I had them tied up, I went through the house pretty quickly to make sure I hadn't missed anybody.
- [57:01]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Now, you mentioned taking the laundry out away. Any other items like makeup or stuff like that. Did you take any of that stuff?
- [57:12]
Mary Morrissey
There were.
- [57:13]
Israel Keys
I mean, there was quite a bit of things. Quite a few things I threw into the suitcases,
- [57:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I guess. I don't know any other way to ask questions, but to be blunt, I'm assuming that those particular items play into what your intentions are towards these folks sexually. When you get to where you want to go. Am I on track with that, or are these just souvenirs?
- [57:50]
Israel Keys
No, that's pretty much the gist of it. Yeah.
- [57:54]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. Do you mind if I just. I'm kind of curious. Do you dress Lorraine in her lingerie or do you have some other purpose for it?
- [58:11]
Israel Keys
I don't know if I want to go into that.
- [58:13]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right, fair enough. Hey, anything you want to tell me about is great, so we'll move on. Thinking about the car, you get into the car, you put them in the car. You get into the car, and in your interview, you say you drive to the place you're staying at where you get some stuff out of your car, and then you get back into their car. Then you say that you drive up to that abandoned house, you take them out of the car. And then whenever, when it's morning, when you're finished, you get back in their car, you drive back down to the Lowe's parking lot. Am I correct so far?
- [59:04]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [59:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And then you go to the hotel in the car that you've rented, and then you come back and you get in that car again and drive up Route 15 and you talking about looking at banks and stuff like that. And then you turn around and you drive back down and you go back to your car after. After leaving that car in the apartment complex. Do I have all that right? Yes. Okay, so in those four times that you were in and out of that car, is there any chance that you ever touched anything in the car with an ungloved hand?
- [59:47]
Israel Keys
Not that I recall.
- [59:50]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Is it possible? I mean, because, I mean, you're in and out of that car a lot, and I just wonder if it's possible that we might be able to lift a fingerprint or access some DNA or something like that from the car.
- [60:08]
Israel Keys
If I left a print on that car, that would be pretty serious oversight on my part. I had gloves on the entire time. I was concerned about DNA the car. There is a good possibility if there's fairly long, dark hair that you found on the seat, there's possible DNA match to me. But. But other than that, I seriously doubt you're going to find DNA or fingerprints anywhere.
- [60:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
What type of gloves do you wear when you're doing this?
- [60:41]
Israel Keys
I usually wear leather baseball gloves.
- [60:46]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Do you have rubber gloves, too?
- [60:51]
Israel Keys
No, I usually don't wear rubber gloves.
- [60:54]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Do you recall? I mean, you might have been perspiring or something like that. Is that possible?
- [61:01]
Israel Keys
Oh, yeah. That was a concern I had, especially at their house, because my gloves were wet and, you know, I was sweating and it's possible some of my perspiration got through the gloves and got on who knows how many items, but I wasn't. I wasn't overly concerned about that.
- [61:25]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right. Did you eat or drink or anything? Did you go into the refrigerator while you're at the house?
- [61:33]
Israel Keys
I may have looked in the refrigerator. I didn't know. I didn't.
- [61:38]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Yeah, I know they were pretty big beer drinkers, so I didn't know if you found any beer or anything like that in the refrigerator. And just curious.
- [61:49]
Mary Morrissey
Okay.
- [61:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. So you mentioned that you've adjusted seats to put them in the car. Did you find that you had to adjust the driver's seat to get in it?
- [62:01]
Mary Morrissey
Yeah.
- [62:01]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [62:03]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And how Tall are you?
- [62:08]
Israel Keys
I'm about six, two.
- [62:10]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Did you get a sense for who drove the car last? By the seat, yeah. And who'd you think it was?
- [62:19]
Israel Keys
Well, it's she. I'm guessing it was her, Mrs. Currier that did most of the driving? For a number of reasons, yeah.
- [62:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
What reasons are that?
- [62:36]
Israel Keys
Well, for one, I think that's what they told me. But yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't in any shape to drive, it seemed like. So what's going on everyone?
- [62:46]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
It's bluff here and we're driving through
- [62:47]
Israel Keys
the states in the Bluff Mobile and
- [62:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
the best thing that we can do is play our favorite casino style games. On Spin Quest they have over a
- [62:54]
Israel Keys
thousand games including live dealer blackjack and craps.
- [62:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
With tons of slots and unlimited options. You can get a 30 coin pack for just $10.
- [63:03]
Israel Keys
For new users sign up today.
- [63:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Go to spinquest.com right now Spinquest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. Did you notice anything peculiar about either of them as they walked or moved around?
- [63:29]
Israel Keys
Aside from. No, I mean, aside from the fact that they weren't in the best of shape. I mean, I don't know either of
- [63:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
them walk with a limp or anything like that. I know you mentioned that Bill is a pretty heavy guy. Anything else about him that led you to the conclusion that he wasn't in great shape?
- [63:54]
Israel Keys
Well, I knew he had diabetes and they told me that after I. Shortly after we left their house.
- [64:02]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, give me a second. I'm fumbling through my notes to find the important questions to ask you. Now tell me about this abandoned farmhouse. I know in the interview you described quite plainly how you get the guy into the basement through kind of the storm door that leads down into the basement. Is that correct?
- [64:42]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [64:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And once he's tied up in the basement, you. You, after your little chase with the woman there, do you bring her in the same door or a different door?
- [64:58]
Israel Keys
No, I brought her in through the front door.
- [65:01]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, and can you describe the front of that particular house?
- [65:10]
Israel Keys
There was a. It was either a screened in or a Glaston porch about probably 6 by 12 or 6 by 20. On the front of the house there was, I believe, a screen door you had to go through to get into the porch area. And then there was a standard entry door that led into the living room of the old portion of the farmhouse.
- [65:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now when you were scoping that place out earlier, did you go inside it and go through it?
- [65:42]
Israel Keys
I did.
- [65:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, so you Knew what? You knew exactly where. Where things were and where you wanted to place them and all that stuff. I. One thing I didn't get. Now, with. With her. You bring her in the front door. There's an upstairs there, right?
- [66:00]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [66:01]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You go upstairs, or are you on that, like, ground floor?
- [66:06]
Israel Keys
No, I took her upstairs.
- [66:08]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And then what's up there? Furnishing wise or anything?
- [66:15]
Israel Keys
There was. Most of the interior doors were off the hinges. There was. I think there were some old heating appliances, either boilers or something in the rooms, and there were several old mattresses upstairs. But for the most part, that was it. Just larger pieces of furniture was the main thing that was in the house. Most of the household items had been removed.
- [66:45]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. And not in the basement, but on the ground floor. Were there a couch or anything like that?
- [66:55]
Israel Keys
There was a couch in the living room. There was many. Maybe a recliner and there was a old freestanding wooden TV.
- [67:04]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Oh, okay.
- [67:05]
Israel Keys
Circa 1960s.
- [67:09]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
So you're a. Did it ever concern you that, I mean, there's two floors that separate you between him and her? You might. You know, it would seem like a lot of stuff could be going on when you're upstairs that you don't. You don't know about. And the other way around, when you're downstairs. Are you that confident in how secure you have these people?
- [67:45]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I was. Well, that's. Things didn't go as exactly as planned, so.
- [67:52]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, I kind of gathered that. I wish at some point you'd tell me what exactly his plan meant, but, you know, that's. Any interest in telling me that?
- [68:09]
Israel Keys
No, all I can say is that, you know, I had specific things that I wanted to have happen in mind, and because of actions taken by them, there were, you know, it just frustrated me to the point where I, you know, I still was going to go through with it, but I was. I just didn't. It didn't go exactly as I had had planned.
- [68:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And you had plans for both of them, you mentioned, is that correct?
- [68:46]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [68:46]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I mean, he wasn't just like collateral just being there. You had plans for him as well?
- [68:53]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [68:54]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, now, when you're talking about raping the woman, you mentioned going outside after a while and then coming back in again. Are you like a smoker? Do you go out and smoke or believe any cigarettes or. I know you smoke cigars because they talked about you having cigar breaks. Is that what you do when you step outside or are you just getting some air?
- [69:25]
Israel Keys
No, that's what I was doing.
- [69:27]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You were smoking?
- [69:28]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [69:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did you Take the butts with you or.
- [69:35]
Israel Keys
There isn't really a. But I was. I smoke them down to where there's not much left, and then I step on them until they look like just another pile of leaves on the ground.
- [69:48]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right, so are we talking cigarettes? Is that the deal, or is it.
- [69:54]
Israel Keys
No, it's a cigar. It's all tobacco.
- [69:56]
Mary Morrissey
It's.
- [69:56]
Israel Keys
No, Yeah, I think I smoked a couple of them in their backyard, too.
- [70:02]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. Well. And you'd say they're smoked down so fine that they would be almost impossible to even recognize as being part of a cigar.
- [70:15]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I mean, once you step on them, it's just tobacco leaves. So once you step on them and they're not in the shape of a cigar anymore, they look just like any other bit of leaves or vegetation you might step on.
- [70:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right. Yeah. Feel free to interject if you think there's anything else I need to know that. I'm not asking.
- [70:43]
Israel Keys
Well, it sounds like you've already heard major interviews, so.
- [70:47]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Well, you. You talked about having a Glock handgun with you, right?
- [70:53]
Israel Keys
It was a Smith and Wesson, but. Yeah.
- [70:55]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Oh, okay. Is it a semi,40 cal.
- [70:59]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [71:00]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. What happened to that? I mean, I know what happened to the 1022, and I know what happened to the gun you took away from the house, but I don't know about the Smith and Wesson. Semi.
- [71:15]
Israel Keys
Smith and Wesson was. I was actually arrested with that in Texas.
- [71:21]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Oh, okay. All right. You say that you hit the guy with a shovel a few times downstairs. Is that your shovel? Is it a shovel that was in the basement or. And did you take that away?
- [71:37]
Israel Keys
No, it was a shovel that was already in the house. House. And I didn't take it away. I think I actually left it in the basement.
- [71:44]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
There have been any blood on it or anything?
- [71:46]
Israel Keys
No.
- [71:47]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right, let's see. Let me back up a second. Is there. Is there anything. Anything else about their house that you remember that maybe I forgot to ask you about?
- [72:11]
Israel Keys
I'm sure there is. I don't really know what you're looking for, though.
- [72:14]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
It strikes you as like, why didn't you ask me that?
- [72:19]
Israel Keys
No,
- [72:25]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You remember I already asked you about the garage. You said you didn't see too much, so. And you didn't go in the basement, right?
- [72:35]
Israel Keys
No.
- [72:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Anything else that you mentioned? Windows upstairs. And you actually mentioned seeing a cop car down the road?
- [72:47]
Israel Keys
Yeah, there was. I believe there was a business of some sort. Directly. Pretty much directly across the road from the farmhouse and then. And further down to the right. It seems like there was either a. Yeah, it seems like it was another farmhouse, and there was. I remember there was a. It looked like a sheriff's car. I think it was a sheriff's car. I don't know. I don't know if he lived there or what.
- [73:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
The other side of the road, right?
- [73:17]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [73:18]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't think it was a sheriff, actually. I think it was a local cop for another town who took the car home. But. But, yeah, you're right. There was a. There was a other cop living down the road. Said something about locking out the windows upstairs where the woman was. Is that.
- [73:42]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I had. I took a couple of the doors and maybe a mattress and put them over the windows so that people wouldn't see the light.
- [73:51]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And she was on a mattress. That. One of the mattresses that it was laying on the floor when you checked the place out?
- [73:58]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [73:59]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You cover it with anything that you brought with you or just that old spooky mattress that was there that was
- [74:05]
Israel Keys
in pretty good shape.
- [74:06]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Oh, really?
- [74:07]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [74:08]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did it look like anybody had been, like, squatting, hanging out in there recently?
- [74:13]
Special Agent Frank Russo
No.
- [74:14]
Israel Keys
Well, maybe there was one portion of the house. The back portion of the house had an addition on it, and it was pretty clearly the last area that had been lived in. They had a makeshift kitchen set up, and seems like there were even still some appliances in that portion of the house. So. Yeah, maybe they were squatters. I don't know. It looked more like somebody who was just living in that section because the rest of the house wasn't that livable anymore. So.
- [74:45]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. When you finally get out of. Decide to get out of town and you're going to Maine, how do you get there? I mean, I know how. I usually go to Maine, and it's by getting on 89 and heading south. Is that how you go, or do you go a different way?
- [75:12]
Israel Keys
No, I think I went the northern route on the way there.
- [75:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And you mentioned a state or state forest in New Hampshire where you got out. Was that off a local road or was that off the interstate?
- [75:33]
Israel Keys
I think that was off of a highway. I don't remember if that. Honestly, I don't remember if that was an interstate or not. I would have to look at a map.
- [75:40]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right. Okay. I'm winding down here, so just bear with me a couple more minutes. Okay?
- [75:51]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [75:53]
Mary Morrissey
While he's looking at his questions, is it okay if I ask a question?
- [75:56]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah.
- [75:58]
Mary Morrissey
It sounds like you had some conversation with the couriers. You talked about them telling you that he was a diabetic, that she was the one who primarily did the driving. I think you said in your May 8 interview that he talked to you about his military history or background.
- [76:14]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [76:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Hey, everybody. Lady luck here.
- [76:17]
Mary Morrissey
And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long, I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com which
- [76:25]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
is an American owned social casino.
- [76:27]
Mary Morrissey
It obviously features over 1000 slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.
- [76:39]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Spin Quest is a free to play social casino.
- [76:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.
- [76:45]
Mary Morrissey
All right, can you remember any other specific things that you spoke with them about?
- [76:53]
Israel Keys
Well, obviously their main concern was what was going on at the time. So that was primarily what we were talking about.
- [77:02]
Mary Morrissey
What kind of questions were they asking you?
- [77:05]
Israel Keys
What's going on?
- [77:07]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And did you.
- [77:08]
Mary Morrissey
What was your answer to them?
- [77:11]
Israel Keys
I told them it was kidnap for ransom.
- [77:15]
Mary Morrissey
Did they talk to you, anything about their own financial history when you mentioned that that might be your motive?
- [77:20]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [77:21]
Mary Morrissey
What did they tell you?
- [77:22]
Israel Keys
They told me they didn't come for money.
- [77:27]
Mary Morrissey
Did they tell you anything about, like, the types of jobs they did or.
- [77:30]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I asked them all those questions.
- [77:33]
Mary Morrissey
And do you recall what their answers were?
- [77:35]
Israel Keys
She told me she worked in a hospital, and I believe she said he worked at a animal hospital or something.
- [77:42]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. Did they tell you anything about their specific family history, whether or not they had children, whether or not they had, you know, kidnapped for ransom thing? Did you explore it further with them in terms of who you would be contacting for the ransom money?
- [77:58]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [77:58]
Mary Morrissey
Can you tell me what you recall about that part of the conversation?
- [78:03]
Israel Keys
I was asking them where their family primarily lived and how many members there were around.
- [78:12]
Mary Morrissey
And do you recall what they said?
- [78:15]
Israel Keys
They told me they had recently moved to the area from Winooski and that they had several family members in the area. Still.
- [78:30]
Mary Morrissey
Find out whether or not they had children.
- [78:32]
Israel Keys
It seems like I did ask them if they had children, and I believe they had said no.
- [78:39]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. Do you recall anything else specifically from the house that you remember seeing either in the kitchen, whether it was photographs or wall hangings, light fixtures, anything that you can recall distinctively?
- [78:56]
Israel Keys
Nothing distinctive. It was. Seems like for the most part, it was pretty standard furnishings, and I don't remember seeing anything that really stood out to me. I do remember they had fairly new televisions. It seemed like in every room. Like large flat screen TVs or something.
- [79:15]
Mary Morrissey
Okay, what about the kitchen? Did you notice anything about the appliances? Whether or not it looked like a newer kitchen, an older kitchen?
- [79:24]
Israel Keys
I don't recall. I don't. Yeah, I wasn't. I wasn't really focused on that, I guess.
- [79:31]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. All right.
- [79:34]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I had a couple more questions for Israel about the car.
- [79:37]
Israel Keys
Okay.
- [79:38]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
In the trunk of the car, there's a black trash bag. When. When we recovered the car. Do you recall if that's. If that's something you brought or it was, or it was something that was in the car when you got.
- [79:54]
Israel Keys
Depends how big of a trash bag it is, I guess.
- [79:57]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, so you don't have any specific recollection of leaving a trash bag in the trunk?
- [80:03]
Israel Keys
I would be surprised if I had left a trash bag. It's possible that I did.
- [80:09]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
But if you did, it would have been a newer one.
- [80:13]
Israel Keys
Yeah, it would have been fresh off of the roll. And like I say, they were very large trash bags, so they're pretty distinctive.
- [80:19]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Were they heavy duty?
- [80:21]
Israel Keys
They were, I believe, contractor bag.
- [80:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Or were they just big?
- [80:25]
Israel Keys
I think they were 2 or 3 mil. They weren't super heavy duty. They were just very large.
- [80:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Did you get into Lowe's by any chance?
- [80:35]
Israel Keys
I don't think so.
- [80:37]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right, there. Were you mentioned that the car overheated or you saw coolant containers in the car, is that right?
- [80:50]
Israel Keys
Yeah, there was. When I got in the car to put the seat back, it wouldn't go back all the way. I think there were a couple gallons of antifreeze.
- [80:59]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, and did you remember anything else that was in the car?
- [81:08]
Israel Keys
There was like, some seat cushions, like lower back support cushions and something like that.
- [81:16]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
A pillow? Do you recall a pillow being in the car?
- [81:18]
Israel Keys
Yeah, yeah, there were several. Several pillows or like I say, like back support or something.
- [81:27]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You didn't put them in the car? Like, I mean, when that wasn't part of stuff you took away from the house that was already in the car?
- [81:34]
Israel Keys
Right. That was. That was something that they. You could tell they habitually drove with those things.
- [81:41]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, one thing we did notice that we took from the car, which seems strange. It looked like a couple of packages of women's underwear that was. Looked unopened to me. I don't know. Do you recall that?
- [82:03]
Israel Keys
It's possible. I don't know if they were. If it was in the trunk, it's possible they fell out of the suitcase or something. But I mean, unless. No, I don't recall putting those in There? No.
- [82:14]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. And you don't recall seeing them in there, though, just as you were checking out the car?
- [82:22]
Israel Keys
Yeah, it seems like there was a bag of something in there. I don't remember. Like I say, I checked out the car. I was only. I was looking for specific things when I checked out the car, so. Anything else? Inconsequential. I probably just pushed under the seat or something.
- [82:38]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, what were you looking for? Like things of value or.
- [82:44]
Israel Keys
No, I was trying to figure out who lived in the house.
- [82:47]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right, so most of your intelligence gathering about the house and the car and all that stuff is to determine who lives in the house. Am I right there?
- [83:03]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I just wanted to know what to expect. When I went in. I was looking in the car for dog hair and was trying to find out the ages and how many people there might be living in the house by going to. Through all the paperwork in the car, things like that.
- [83:21]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, well, I mean, that makes sense to me. That's similar to some of the stuff we do when we're looking to gain entry to a house. Now, I must. But apart from who's going to be in the house when you get in there? I mean, does that really matter to you? Because, I mean, do you have, like, a plan A? If it's. If it's, you know, what you expect, a man and a woman and it's. But it doesn't matter if it's, you know, three people or two people or, you know. You know what I mean? Would you have, like, if you saw something that you didn't expect to see, would you have walk. Walked away from that place and gone somewhere else?
- [84:13]
Israel Keys
If there had been three or four people in the house, then I would have just tied them up and left.
- [84:19]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And you got any feelings about kids? I mean, are they, like, something you want to stay away from?
- [84:28]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I try. Yeah. Try to avoid it. I mean, I already had pretty strong suspicions that if there were going to be kids there, there were probably grandkids or something, and I didn't think that was very likely. Like I say, I checked out the garage and the backyard, and I was looking for signs of that. I didn't see anything, so.
- [84:53]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right. Okay. Is there. Do you have any questions for me right now? No. All right. I'm trying to. I'm trying to think for a minute if, you know, because I'm probably never going to get a chance to do this again. If there's anything else that I want to ask you. I mean, there are millions of things I want to ask you, but, you know, I understand the ground rules and I want to respect, you know, at least the level of cooperation I'm getting from you. Now, Do you mind if I ask you about why Vermont and why Essex Junction? It just seems kind of off the beaten path from, you know, your, the areas you've been to. Well,
- [86:02]
Israel Keys
off the beaten path, that's kind of like what I like to do. So.
- [86:06]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, and I was with the recovery team at the reservoir and I mean, it's a beautiful area. Certainly that's off the beaten path about as far as you can go. You mentioned that your. I think your plan was to say that you would come to the area to do some fishing, is that right?
- [86:34]
Israel Keys
Well, not so much a plan. That is actually what I was doing. I was fishing. I mean.
- [86:41]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Where'd you fish?
- [86:43]
Israel Keys
I was fishing along the. I don't know what you call it. Like there's a breakwater that goes out into Lake Champlain. I think I was there right after the flooding. There was a big flood and there was a lot of damage that was done to the parks along the water waterways there. So I was driving around out there looking at all that, all the flooded campgrounds and damaged trees and there were quite a few people fishing. So I stopped and asked them what they were fishing for and if they had any luck and decided that I was going to stop. Originally, I wasn't even planning on staying in Vermont. I was planning on going on to New Hampshire and maybe staying there for a couple days,
- [87:35]
Mary Morrissey
but.
- [87:35]
Israel Keys
But yeah, I just decided I wanted to try fishing there and I already had all my fishing gear with me. Not really, no.
- [87:44]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did you have a license?
- [87:45]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I think I got a three day license or something.
- [87:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Yeah. I don't want you to get jammed up for fishing without a license.
- [87:53]
Israel Keys
Yeah, they're after me for poaching already,
- [87:56]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
so I mean, that's a serious offense in Vermont. Yeah. But anyway. So you're. I mean, are there other areas in Vermont that you're. That you are familiar with or is it just because this is off the ferry route kind of that you decided to stay in Essex?
- [88:20]
Israel Keys
No, I've been all through Vermont on various occasions. I don't, I don't always stay in like Burlington area. It's kind of on the way to New York though, from the route I take, so I don't know.
- [88:37]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. And. Oh, I just thought of a question. Do you eat at restaurants when you're in town?
- [88:45]
Israel Keys
Not usually.
- [88:47]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Do you recall when you were this Visit here in June, if you ate at any restaurant or go through McDonald's or. What do you do about food?
- [89:00]
Israel Keys
I don't remember on that last trip, it seems like. I'm sure I did eat a restaurant at some point. It must not have been very memorable. Sorry.
- [89:10]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. Okay. Well, that's all right. Just give me one more thing to look at. All right. Like I said, I'm one winding down here. I'm spinning my wheels, trying to make every advantage of.
- [89:25]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Let me ask a quick question. This is Frank Israel. Do you bring your cigars with you or you buy them there?
- [89:31]
Israel Keys
I usually buy them wherever I am.
- [89:33]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Where do you buy your cigars? In Vermont?
- [89:39]
Israel Keys
Well, on that trip I had them with me. Oh, I bought them in Chicago. Chicago or Indiana. I don't know, somewhere down there.
- [89:50]
Special Agent Frank Russo
It's that same brand you usually smoke?
- [89:52]
Israel Keys
Yeah. I mean, it's not as they're kind of a little more difficult to find certain areas, but.
- [89:59]
Mary Morrissey
Mr. Keith, I just have a couple other questions as well. I think that the folks out there told you that one of the reasons that we're having this conversation with you is because the courier house has been sitting vacant. I mean, we held it as evidence for the past year, and the family would like it back at some point here because they want to put it back on the market. And there's a chance it's going to end up going to foreclosure unless we do something pretty quick, which is why we're having this conversation so we can verify that it was you and only you that were involved in their deaths. And I. And so that's the focus of my questions. And was there anything about Mrs. Currier? I understand that you spent. It sounds like more time with her than you did, Mr. Currier. Anything about anything observed about her body, birthmarks, anything like that, while you were involved with her?
- [90:58]
Israel Keys
Nothing I really want to talk about, no.
- [91:02]
Mary Morrissey
Well, obviously for us, that would be critical to show that it was you and only you that could have committed this crime, because nobody else would have that information. So to the extent that you're willing to share even a portion of that, it would be very helpful for us in order to give the house back and close out this aspect of our investigation.
- [91:22]
Israel Keys
Well, I mean, I would think at this point in the interview, it's pretty obvious that I was in the house and. And considering that I had no ties to them prior to that night, there's really no other way I could know as much about that house as I do, unless I was the one who took them out of it?
- [91:43]
Mary Morrissey
Is there anything. Can you give me a general. If you can't be specific about what it is you recall from her, can you give me a general idea about what part of her body you saw? Something distinctive or anything like that?
- [91:56]
Israel Keys
No, I can't. I can't really go into that. Ugh. I have had no luck lately.
- [92:02]
Mary Morrissey
Wait. Lady Luck Bretzky.
- [92:04]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I got you. I've had so much luck on spinquest.com
- [92:08]
Mary Morrissey
they have all of my favorite games, slot games, live blackjack, craps, and bubble craps.
- [92:13]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You can even get a 30 coin
- [92:15]
Mary Morrissey
pack for just 10 bucks.
- [92:17]
Israel Keys
10 bucks for 30. I'm headed over to spinquest.com right now.
- [92:21]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Spin Quest is a free to play
- [92:23]
Special Agent Frank Russo
social casino void where prohibited.
- [92:24]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Visit spinquest.com for more details. Okay, did bring a question that went in my head and out of it. All right, well, never mind. Oh, yeah, that's. That's what I wanted to ask you. This guy Bill, spent a lot of time on the Internet. I mean, do you spend a lot of time on the computer?
- [92:58]
Israel Keys
I have periodic. From time to time, yeah.
- [93:02]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Is there any chance you guys could have ever crossed paths on the Internet, either chatting or anything like that?
- [93:12]
Israel Keys
Oh, anything's possible, but I doubt it. Just statistically it seems improbable.
- [93:17]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. But certainly that would not have been a conscious thing that you ever communicated with this guy on the Internet? No. Okay. All right.
- [93:30]
Mary Morrissey
Is there Anything else, Mr. Keith, you can think of that was personal that they spoke to you about? Obviously, the information about them having. Or family members having moved here from Winooski is personal to them. Is there anything else you can talk about or recall that they told you that was sort of personal to their lives?
- [93:50]
Israel Keys
No, I. For the most part, the only time I was letting them speak was to answer questions that I asked them. So I don't. I. Yeah, I wasn't. It wasn't a typical conversation, I guess you could say. It's not. It's not like I.
- [94:13]
Mary Morrissey
Did Mr. Currier say anything to you about his. The military? I know you talked about, and I may be getting the wording wrong on this, but the branch of the military or the infantry or something like that that you were both a part of or had some similar history with?
- [94:26]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [94:27]
Mary Morrissey
And did he tell you anything about specifically what he did in the military or his experiences, where he been, anything like that?
- [94:36]
Israel Keys
No, he just said it was a long time ago.
- [94:39]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [94:40]
Mary Morrissey
And what was it again about the two of you that you had in common in terms of the Military. Was it the same branch of military?
- [94:48]
Israel Keys
It was the same division, I believe.
- [94:50]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. Which was what?
- [94:53]
Israel Keys
25th.
- [94:55]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And I'm sorry, I don't know a lot of the military that's part of the army or.
- [95:00]
Israel Keys
Yeah, it's the Army. Well, they call it. They call it the electric strawberry. That's what caught my eye. It's a. It was the shoulder patch on his uniform. It was the same as the one that I had worn when I was in the military.
- [95:11]
Mary Morrissey
Does it say electric strawberry or is that like a slang term for whatever you saw?
- [95:16]
Israel Keys
It's a leaf. I don't know what kind of leaf. Maybe an oak leaf or something with a lightning bolt through it.
- [95:22]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And you saw that in. On somewhere on the insignia or the documents? Where did you see that?
- [95:28]
Israel Keys
I saw it in the dresser. It was a unit patch. It was either on a uniform or it was separate. In a bag. I think it was in a bag of his other military medals or something.
- [95:40]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And that was in the. I'll call it the spare room, for lack of a better word.
- [95:45]
Israel Keys
Right. It was in the bedroom adjoining theirs.
- [95:48]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And do you call if there was actually a bed in that bedroom as well?
- [95:51]
Israel Keys
Well, there was either a bed or a couch. Yeah, I think there was a bed.
- [95:56]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. Okay. And I know that you said in that May 8 interview that Bill Currier had on shorts that looked similar to you to maybe swim trunks or something like that.
- [96:09]
Israel Keys
Right.
- [96:09]
Mary Morrissey
And do you recall what she was wearing, Lorraine?
- [96:13]
Israel Keys
She was wearing really lightweight, like sleeping trunks, shorts, and a T shirt.
- [96:19]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [96:20]
Mary Morrissey
It looked like they weren't some. They looked like sleepwear, like something you would buy as pajamas. Right. It's not sleep.
- [96:27]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. Israel. Are you Native American or anything?
- [96:34]
Israel Keys
No.
- [96:35]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I noticed you spent several years out on the. On the west coast working for the Maca tribe. Is that. Is that correct?
- [96:43]
Israel Keys
The Makah tribe? Yes.
- [96:45]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And then from what I understand from looking at the media, you might have had. You might have some property in upstate New York near the St. Regis tribe, is that correct?
- [96:59]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [97:00]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Is that just coincidental or do you have any affinity for the Native American or. I mean, is it. Is that significant in any way?
- [97:12]
Israel Keys
I've had. I don't know how significant it is, but, you know, our paths have crossed for a long time, so.
- [97:23]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, but, I mean, you view these people as victims or people you have respect for?
- [97:31]
Israel Keys
I have respect for everybody. I just.
- [97:37]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Anything in particular? Well, I guess not, from the sounds of things. Well, I guess you like the outdoors. Sounds like you're kind of very comfortable in wilderness surroundings. And I just wondered if that was any part of your heritage.
- [98:01]
Israel Keys
That's just the way I was raised. No, But I'm not a Native American that I know of. No.
- [98:10]
Mary Morrissey
And if I can just ask. And I know that you've said that you've provided a lot of detail, and you have. And I'm just trying to, I guess, answer to some questions that are still lingering out there. I think you said in the May 8 interview that when you went into their bedroom, that you tore or brought all of the covers off of the bed. Is that right?
- [98:26]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [98:27]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And did those covers stay off the bed?
- [98:31]
Israel Keys
Probably.
- [98:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [98:33]
Mary Morrissey
And then after you restrained them, it sounds like just with their wrists. By their wrists, Is that right?
- [98:40]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [98:40]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And did they stay on the bed or did they go somewhere else?
- [98:45]
Israel Keys
No, I told them I had them roll over on their stomachs and,
- [98:51]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
you
- [98:52]
Israel Keys
know, I told them to keep their faces down on the pillow, not look. Look at anything or talk or anything. And. And after they had done that, I told them to put their hands behind their backs, and that's. I restrained their wrists and just told them to stay there.
- [99:08]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. So basically you were able to control them, at least initially, just by the fact that they. They knew you had a gun.
- [99:21]
Israel Keys
I don't think they knew that I told them I had a gun.
- [99:23]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. And, well, they obviously got the message that you meant business, right?
- [99:30]
Israel Keys
Not really. That was kind of the problem.
- [99:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I mean, I'm trying to, you know, picture this in my mind, and I imagine when you go in there, you are, you know, kind of like when I kick a door in and I tell people to get on the ground. It's obvious just from the tone of my voice that you don't want to mess. You don't want to not do what I'm telling you to do. I mean, is that a similar thing?
- [100:06]
Israel Keys
Yeah, you know, initially, that's. That's the way it went down.
- [100:12]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
But
- [100:15]
Israel Keys
once the. I guess once they realize what's going on, what's really going on is that, you know,
- [100:25]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
did they ask if you were going to kill them? I mean, like, it was that big thing. Or was it more like. What. What. What's going on?
- [100:34]
Israel Keys
I. I think they were incredulous of the whole situation, and that was part of the problem, is they didn't realize how serious the situation was. I think they thought that they could talk their way out of it or negotiate their way out of it.
- [100:53]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Were they trying to build rapport with you?
- [100:56]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [100:57]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay, gotcha. Did you get the sense that they had been drinking before they went to bed? Like, I mean, did you smell alcohol on your breath or anything like that?
- [101:09]
Israel Keys
No, I didn't notice. I think I knew that there were somebody had been drinking in the house because I remember seeing something to that effect, and I knew that she smoked. And beyond that, I didn't notice anything about them personally, no.
- [101:27]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You let her smoke?
- [101:29]
Israel Keys
I think I did let her smoke a time or two, yeah.
- [101:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right.
- [101:34]
Mary Morrissey
When did you do that? When they were. You were still at their house or when you went to the farmhouse?
- [101:38]
Israel Keys
When we were at the farmhouse.
- [101:39]
Mary Morrissey
So did you unrestrain her during that time?
- [101:42]
Israel Keys
No.
- [101:43]
Mary Morrissey
So did you hold the cigarette up to her mouth for her?
- [101:46]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I mean, I. She wasn't in restraints the whole time, but initially she was, yeah.
- [101:52]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And it was during that time that you let her smoke?
- [101:56]
Israel Keys
I let her smoke a couple different times.
- [101:58]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. After her initial attempt to get away, did she try to get away again?
- [102:06]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah.
- [102:07]
Mary Morrissey
And when did that happen?
- [102:10]
Israel Keys
That happened when I was dealing with the situation with Mr. Currier in the basement. I think she. I mean, she could hear. What was that? There was something going on, and I think I already had her tied up pretty well by then, but I could tell when I got back up that she'd been trying to get away.
- [102:31]
Mary Morrissey
Okay, and was she successful in any way in trying to get away?
- [102:35]
Israel Keys
Not really, no.
- [102:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay.
- [102:37]
Mary Morrissey
Did you tell her that Bill was dead?
- [102:41]
Israel Keys
She. Well, no, I never told her that.
- [102:46]
Mary Morrissey
But you think she knew it?
- [102:48]
Israel Keys
I don't know what she thought. I mean, she. She knew that there was definitely an altercation in the basement, and
- [102:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I.
- [102:59]
Israel Keys
She may have suspected that there were. I don't. I don't really think. I think she knew that I came up and got a gun, but I don't know if she knew that I had shot it because she probably wouldn't have recognized it as a gunshot.
- [103:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. Does it make more of a clicking noise when you had that silencer on it?
- [103:20]
Israel Keys
The only. I mean, with that silencer on it, the only thing you could hear was the sound of the bolt going back and forth. And of course, you can hear the bullets hitting.
- [103:31]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, but from bumping here, it's probably not especially. I mean, is it raining at this time?
- [103:38]
Israel Keys
I think it has started raining again at some point. I remember there was a hole in the roof and there was a lot of water pouring down through one portion of the house.
- [103:50]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You mentioned something like a hole cut into the floor for a pipe to go through or something like that. Because I know you said something about your camp stove falling down through it or something.
- [104:03]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [104:05]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did you get the feeling that there was a was for a wood stove pipe or something like that?
- [104:10]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I think that's exactly what it was.
- [104:12]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. And from the sounds of things, she was pretty intact. I mean, physically, until. Until like the last time you were done with her upstairs and you mentioned strangling her and she had kind of given up or something like that. Am I right? Is that accurate? Or did you. Did you injure her or rough her up or in any way before that?
- [104:48]
Israel Keys
Well, it sounds like you heard the description I gave of.
- [104:53]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Well, I understand. Yeah, I did. And I just. I don't have a full understanding of what you were explaining. And maybe it's because, you know, I listened to it over a week ago and heard it once, but. But it sounds like you may have roughed her up a bit when she tried to escape the first time.
- [105:15]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I had to be a little more assertive after that point.
- [105:21]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Did you slap her around or punch her or are you choking her? What's the.
- [105:27]
Israel Keys
I didn't hit her. I think I grabbed her by the hair and maybe by the back of the neck to take her into the house.
- [105:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. And now you bring her downstairs to finish her off. But you mentioned that she's kind of out of it as you bring her downstairs. Had you choked her out before? Or is this just a result of all she had been through?
- [106:00]
Israel Keys
Well, I'm sure it was a combination. I mean, I had choked her.
- [106:07]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Is choking, I guess. Is that a part of what you do? Because I know you. You mentioned that the. The whole tying up bondage thing is. Is important to you, I guess. For no other. For lack of a better term, is choking a big element of this whole thing too?
- [106:31]
Israel Keys
Yeah.
- [106:32]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right.
- [106:33]
Israel Keys
You know what?
- [106:34]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
It sucks to be bored. But when I get on my phone phone and play real casino games on spinquest.com the time flies by. That two hour wait at the DMV
- [106:44]
Israel Keys
seems like 10 minutes.
- [106:45]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Play your favorite slots, live blackjack, live craps with a live dealer. New players, $30 coin packs are on sale for 10 bucks. Play spinquest.com and you'll never be bored again. Spin Quest is a free to play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.
- [107:07]
Mary Morrissey
So.
- [107:12]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Telling you, I mean, you're pretty angry that things didn't go exactly the way you wanted them to. Would this have had any different conclusion? I mean, you never had any intention of letting These people live. Did you?
- [107:25]
Israel Keys
No.
- [107:26]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. All right. I can't think of anything else right now. Anybody else or Israel. If you have any questions, jump right in.
- [107:41]
Israel Keys
No.
- [107:43]
Mary Morrissey
Mr. Keith, this is Mary Morris again, obviously, and I had written a letter to the folks out there that I think you've seen a copy of.
- [107:53]
Israel Keys
Yes.
- [107:54]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. And obviously we appreciate your willingness to give us information today because it helps us close out this aspect of our case. And as you know, this case is a very big deal in this state. We don't have people go missing very often, and when they do, they're normally found fairly quickly. In this case, the one anniversary is coming up here in just a few days, and we expect there to be a lot of media attention on this, and we expect them to be painting the police in a fairly unfavorable light about the fact that we've not made an arrest in this case. And obviously we have information right now as to who did it. And we have made a commitment on our part to not attach your name to this case. And we agreed to not charge you in Vermont without specific permission from the federal authorities. But that's based in wholly in part on you providing information about this victim in New York. And I understand that you're reluctant or hesitant to give. To give that information. Is that correct?
- [109:09]
Special Agent Frank Russo
If I can jump in Israel, I would just marry. This is frank. Just to let you know. Know what we had a discussion of beforehand. You know, I think Israel just needs some questions sounds like, answered about the letter or about the situation. But my understanding is, you know, he's never. He's never wavered from the fact that he is going to tell us about New York. And obviously Israel can correct me if I'm wrong.
- [109:34]
Israel Keys
Correct. That's, you know, that's prior to everything up to this point. The main specifics of what I've been discussing with investigators here have all been things that took place within the last year, with the exception of a trip that Vermont was also involved in. I believe they said it was 2009. So, I mean, I've given them some information on that trip. I'm just hesitant to reveal too much more about what happened on that trip until I find out what my options are as far as potential agreement or negotiation we can come to regarding whether or not not I'm charged with it for number number one, and at what time that information becomes public that I'm. That I'm responsible for not just the things that have happened within the last year, but things that happened prior to that. That's what my concern is at this point.
- [110:49]
Mary Morrissey
Right. Well, I mean, I don't. I understand you've got lawyers out there that you can, you know, consult with if you'd like. And I just want to address one thing, because in the beginning of this conversation, you asked, I guess it may have been through Frank, whether or not Essex was found by that letter.
- [111:08]
Israel Keys
Right, right.
- [111:09]
Mary Morrissey
And I mean, I'm not sure if you're looking at this letter and trying to pick it apart and see if there's some, like, wiggle room or whatever there for us. And, I mean, I'm kind of. I'm pretty straightforward. This is the commitment we've made because we're very interested, obviously, in closing out other cases if we can. I mean, my focus right now is Vermont and New York, and that's it for right now. And our commitment is entirely dependent on that information being provided. And I understand that, you know, you've got questions, and I'm sure they're legitimate questions that you want answered, but I'm just trying to be direct and forthright with you, that that's the linchpin of the agreement for.
- [111:49]
Israel Keys
Well, I mean, in my mind, I don't feel that I owe you anything, per se, because as far as the couriers are concerned, the only thing I've asked is that my name not be attached to it. You have all your information. You should have come to the realization by now that this crime is completely solved and wrapped up and.
- [112:11]
Mary Morrissey
Right, but we're not arresting anybody for it. You know, we're doing that based on our agreement with you.
- [112:15]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah, I mean, they obviously, you know, they're not going ahead and charging you.
- [112:21]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, we're dealing with the public fallout of that, which. Which isn't. Isn't great because, you know, as far as they're concerned, we haven't solved this thing.
- [112:31]
Israel Keys
Well, I mean, the public knows you're looking for the bodies, which is more than you had a few months ago.
- [112:38]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Don't get me wrong. It's. It's. I. I've lived with this case for. Well, probably going on a year now, and. Yeah. And since April, I. Yeah, I'm in a different place. But, you know, I guess it's not my issue to speak about the agreement and stuff like that, so I'll just leave all that stuff to Mary and the other attorneys. And I just. I appreciate you giving me additional details, which you have. And if you don't mind, I want to ask you a personal question. I went on your website. Did you do all that carpentry that the photos are all about?
- [113:27]
Israel Keys
Yeah, yeah. I mean, everything that was on the website. Yeah.
- [113:31]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Where did you learn to do that?
- [113:33]
Israel Keys
Well, practice makes perfect.
- [113:36]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
What's that?
- [113:37]
Israel Keys
I said practice makes perfect. I've been doing it, you know, since I was 17.
- [113:41]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
So, I mean, you're amazing. You're an amazing carpenter. I wish you would have stayed that.
- [113:48]
Israel Keys
I've always been that.
- [113:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You know what I mean? But. Okay. Well, thanks for your time.
- [113:55]
Mary Morrissey
Are there questions I can answer, Mr. Keith, in terms of the letter or not?
- [114:00]
Israel Keys
I do have some concerns about the way the letter's worded, but I don't have an issue with your commitment. It's all things that I think we can work out from this end.
- [114:10]
Mary Morrissey
Good. And that's obviously, I'm encouraged to hear that. And like I said, that's why I wrote it. So I guess I just wanted to reassure you that to the extent. To the extent the concerns may exist, there certainly weren't intentional. I'm telling you right now that the commitment we made was in order to get this information, and the commitment stands.
- [114:33]
Israel Keys
Well, I mean, I always said, I feel, I know that right now there hasn't been a lot of new information you have on things that happened prior to within the last year, but I'm still pretty confident that it can be worked out to where investigators get everything that they want and need to close the rest of these cases. But, yeah, it's not going to happen overnight because I have some concerns about my long term, my fate, if you will. And those are the last cards I have to play, and I know that. So, you know, it's not anything personal that I'm withholding information. It's just there's some other unresolved issues that I'm dealing with right now that I want to make sure I have an understanding of before I jump in with both feet on some of these other things.
- [115:37]
Mary Morrissey
Okay. Well, it sounds as though those issues have nothing to do with us directly then. So.
- [115:42]
Israel Keys
No, I think I, frankly, I've been pretty impressed with the. The lack of media attention on, you know, what's been going on in the Courier case. I. There was. Yeah, there's. I mean, I know that it can't be easy from your perspective to keep this thing under wraps at this point. And so I have been impressed that it's been that my name hasn't been attached to it yet. And if it can stay that way, that will definitely speed up the process. I realize it's not going to be that way indefinitely, but.
- [116:21]
Mary Morrissey
Right. Well, and you're right. I mean, it hasn't been easy because as George described to you, I think early on, when people heard that the dump site had been able to focus or, you know, limit where we would have to search to a pretty specific area, I think we thought it might be a lot smaller. And it's not. It's a big, big area. So it requires a lot of people to go through it. And so there's a lot of people working on it. So to contain that information is a lot of effort, and it's hard because, as I said, you have not only, you know, the pressure from you in the sense that if this gets out, then you may not give information. So. So that's obviously a real factor for us, but also we've got a lot of public pressure because this is a big deal here, and people want to know what happened. They know we're looking for bodies. They assume, I think, that we're looking for bodies based on credible information that we. That the bodies are there. And, you know, you don't put the huge amount of resources into this search without some credible information. I think people understand that. And, you know, there's going to be a lot of pressure on us to do something about that, to respond to that. And I'm hoping that when you say that our silence and attaching your name to it can speed up this process is true and we can, you know, move forward, because it is.
- [117:38]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
It's hard for us.
- [117:39]
Mary Morrissey
So.
- [117:40]
Israel Keys
Yeah, well, yeah, I think. I think it will.
- [117:44]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Israel, is there ever. Do you ever see a time that you. You might feel like you're willing to discuss the more intimate details about what happened to Bill and Lorraine? And the reason I'm asking that is, you know, just as a cop, and I am very curious as to, you know, the whole method of this. And, you know, it sounds to me like you're. You're a very organized guy, and maybe this is something better for, you know, the FBI, you know, shrinks to weigh over, but is that something you're gonna carry to the grave, or is there some point where you might enlighten some of us about that?
- [118:44]
Israel Keys
Well, there's, for now, a lot of the details that happen between. Well, for example, in the couriers, you know, those details I've given you your bottom line. You know, you know what my basic motivations are. And as far as my specific motivations, That's something I can't answer your question. As far as when or if I might be able to talk about that.
- [119:20]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
I imagine I Mean, you're gonna have. You obviously have a lot of time to reflect on your own life. And if I'm assuming correct correctly, you didn't wake up one morning and decide that this is what you wanted to do with your life. You know, as to whether you have any regrets or anything, or feel sorry or anything like that. That's not what I'm talking about. But as. As somebody, you know, who's. Like I said, I've been. I've been in this business for 28 years, and I'm very interested in people and why they make the choices that they do. So, I mean, I think that would
- [120:07]
Mary Morrissey
be
- [120:10]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
a lot of value, not just to me personally, but to all of us, to, you know, to explore that at some point. And I understand that's not now, but, you know, at some point, I certainly be interested in that.
- [120:26]
Israel Keys
Well, I think the short answer to what you're asking me specifically, the way I think of it, I don't really consider myself all that different or all that special from hundreds of thousands of other people. All you have to do is type in a word search on any given porn site. And, you know, there's all kinds of people who have fantasies about rape and bondage and, you know, the kinds of things that I take to another level.
- [120:57]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, And I get that. And from what, as it was explained to me, is, you know, people early. Early in life who, through neglect or abuse, feel that they don't have any control over their life, develop control fantasies over their life. And some of them involve the violence and inflicting pain. I mean, so it's. I mean, I don't. But the other side of the coin is you're not. I mean, you're not 100,000 other people. You're you. And, you know, you've got specific reasons why you chose to do the things you did. You get where I'm coming from.
- [121:46]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I see what you're saying, but I still disagree that there's. I think with me, it's a combination of things. It's not, you know, it's not just about the sexual fantasies, and it's not. It's definitely not just about the money, and it's not just about the adrenaline, but it's all of those things together, and that's what I get out of it. And once I started doing, you know, once I did it, the practice makes
- [122:18]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
perfect, like you said. Right.
- [122:20]
Israel Keys
Yeah. Well, not so much that it was more. Once I started, you know, there was nothing else like it, so.
- [122:29]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah, I bet. Are you Familiar with this guy Hanson from up in Alaska that. That was labeled a serial killer. They used to capture people. And I mean, it happened right around this late Matanuska. I mean, is this a guy that. I mean, do you ever look into any of that stuff about other people like that?
- [122:52]
Israel Keys
I probably know every single serial killer that's ever been written about. It's kind of a hobby of mine.
- [122:58]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Are you familiar with the Hanson guy? Yeah. Okay. Is he still alive by any chance?
- [123:03]
Israel Keys
Yeah, I think so. He was a little before my time, but yeah, he's in Seward up here.
- [123:08]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Okay. I was just curious. I mean, I'm a curious guy, I guess. So once again. Once again, I'll say finally. And I appreciate your time.
- [123:20]
Israel Keys
All right.
- [123:20]
Mary Morrissey
And just to wrap up from my end of things, you know, our commitment, the letter. It's. The commitment that we put in. The letter is valid and is concrete and is solid. So long as you are cooperating. I mean, it doesn't. It's not like earlier when I said our focus is obviously Vermont and New York, which is what it is right now. It's not like if you give New York that suddenly we're saying, okay, well, we're ready to charge. Obviously, if you're cooperating out there, the commitment in the letter remains intact.
- [123:49]
Israel Keys
All right, I appreciate that.
- [123:50]
Mary Morrissey
Okay.
- [123:51]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
You did give us a little scare when you, when you tried to bolt out of the courtroom.
- [123:57]
Israel Keys
Us too.
- [123:58]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [124:01]
Mary Morrissey
Okay, guys, well, thank you very much for your time.
- [124:04]
Israel Keys
All right.
- [124:05]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Appreciate it. Bye.
- [124:06]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Bye.
- [124:09]
Special Agent Frank Russo
All right, so I think that at least helped them.
- [124:15]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah.
- [124:16]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Any thoughts?
- [124:17]
Israel Keys
Oh, I. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I had some concerns, but I don't, I'm not, I'm not worried now. It sounds like they had already had the main interview, so. Yeah, if they wanted to charge me, they could have charged me already.
- [124:30]
Mary Morrissey
Exactly.
- [124:31]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
And that just gives that, you know,
- [124:33]
Israel Keys
that Murdery, the tenant that you were talking to, is the one who's been tormented for 10 months with this. Being responsible for this case and not having answers and just taking a little bit of ownership in the investigation and get to talk to you and satisfy his investigation.
- [124:49]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah.
- [124:49]
Special Agent Frank Russo
I mean, that being said that, you know, they are. When I, before I got in here, I talked to the prosecutor there and, you know, she did, you know, express some concern about the heat that's going to be on them. I don't know if you've seen these cases, you probably have, but they, they start looking at, oh, the one year anniversary and basically trying to make the cops look like fools after the one year and now they're running around the dump doing nothing. So they do have, have some specific concerns about that and they just kind of in their mind and certainly otherwise they just want to be assured that they're doing it and they're taking the heat for good reason. And that's what she made clear to me. And I think that's valid. I mean obviously if we were in the same position we'd be.
- [125:24]
Israel Keys
Oh, I don't blame them for wanting to. I mean the easy thing up on their soapbox now and say we've got it solved. That'd be the easy thing for them to do.
- [125:33]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Right.
- [125:33]
Israel Keys
And I understand that. But you know, my point is if, you know, at least they know at some point now they'll get to do that. Whereas before I gave them the information, they may never have been able to do that.
- [125:47]
Special Agent Frank Russo
There's that, but there's always. People are very territorial and they kind of want to, you know, sort of bring charge to themselves and that's a lot for them to give up being a whole different sovereignty.
- [125:56]
Israel Keys
I get that.
- [125:57]
Special Agent Frank Russo
So I think, you know, they are making a sacrifice here and I understand that obviously it came from your mouth but at the end of the day, you know, they, they, they want to have closure themselves.
- [126:07]
Mary Morrissey
So.
- [126:07]
Special Agent Frank Russo
But I think, you know, I think it's working out as well as can be expected. You know, that being said, they're going to get some heat, whatever it is, next week. Is that when the anniversary is a week from today?
- [126:19]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
So.
- [126:20]
Special Agent Frank Russo
But you know, hopefully we'll have made some progress by then. You've had some time to answer your questions about the letter.
- [126:27]
Israel Keys
All right.
- [126:28]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
All right.
- [126:29]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Any other questions for me?
- [126:32]
Israel Keys
No, I don't think so.
- [126:33]
Special Agent Frank Russo
I think Kevin will be back next week and I'll be gone. So you know, he may want to kind of chat with you a little bit about the thing.
- [126:41]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah. So
- [126:43]
Special Agent Frank Russo
that's okay with you? We'll probably schedule at that point.
- [126:47]
Israel Keys
All right. Yeah.
- [126:50]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Bless your family, be out of town.
- [126:52]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Yeah.
- [126:55]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Schedule will open up soon as being. All right. Thanks to hit the restroom.
- [127:04]
Israel Keys
Yeah. If I could.
- [127:23]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Hey everybody, lady luck here.
- [127:25]
Mary Morrissey
And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble crafts.
- [127:42]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
Head on over to spin quest.com.
- [127:44]
Mary Morrissey
get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.
- [127:48]
Special Agent Frank Russo
Spin Quest is a free to play Social Casino Void.
- [127:50]
Detective Lieutenant George Murty
We're prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details.