Israel Keyes - March 17, 2012 / TCB Announcement

Summary

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Podcast Summary: True Crime Bullsh** - "Israel Keyes: March 17, 2012 / TCB Announcement"

Release Date: March 9, 2026
Host: Josh Hallmark

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Overview

This episode of True Crime Bullsh** pivots from the regular investigative narrative to deliver two key experiences for listeners:

• Personal Update from Host Josh Hallmark: An honest look at the toll deep true crime investigation can take, as Josh addresses the show's recent hiatus, his struggle with burnout and depression, and a promise for the upcoming season finale.
• Israel Keyes' First Post-Arrest Interview (March 17, 2012): The majority of the episode features Israel Keyes’ first-ever interrogation after his arrest in Texas. The raw interview includes candid exchanges between Keyes, Texas Rangers Steve Raybourn and Kevin Pullen, and his attorney, revealing insight into both Keyes’ psychology and the mechanics of police interview tactics.

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1. Host Update: Burnout and Hiatus Announcement

Timestamp: 01:32 – 02:54

• Josh Hallmark bravely discusses his personal struggles:

  • Shares he’s experienced “major burnout, which is largely due to a pretty bad depression I've had over the last few months… at times crippling and debilitating, and it's been very challenging to give what little parts of myself I have to Keyes.”
  • Apologizes for the hiatus and missing episodes, expressing gratitude: “I know you guys have stuck with me for many years and many seasons and so I do feel like I owe you an explanation.”
  • Announces the timeline for content: “We will be back in October, but unfortunately I've had to take a couple weeks off because I just haven't been able to put this show together in a meaningful way without compromising my mental health.” Promises a satisfying finale next week.

  Notable Quote:

  • Josh: “I do feel like I owe you an explanation and I want to make sure I can deliver a satisfying season finale next week and we will be back in October…” (01:46)

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2. The Israel Keyes First Interview: Methodical Breakdown

Begins at 02:54, continues through episode

a. Setting the Scene, Miranda, and Self-Disclosure

[02:54 – 06:17]

• Interview begins with introductions and Miranda rights.
• Israel Keyes is reserved but compliant.
• Detectives try to build rapport, emphasizing, “We want to know who you are from your perspective.” (06:12, Steve Raybourn)
• Keyes, when told about Anchorage PD’s press release:
  • “What, so my name’s out there now, attached to this?” (06:32, Keyes)
• Repeats that his reputation was solid:
  • “I’ve never had anybody say anything bad about me that I didn’t know of.” (07:13, Keyes)

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b. Israel Keyes’ Background and Family

[06:17 – 13:07]

• Occupation: Carpenter (“Mostly residential; last couple years, yeah, I stay busy…”) (09:38, Keyes)
• Education: Homeschooled (one of ten siblings, both parents involved); GED before joining the Army.
• Military: Served three years, Fort Lewis and training in Egypt. Left military due to impending fatherhood:
  • “Infantry and kids don’t mix.” (12:53, Keyes)

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c. Discussion of Keyes’ Daughter and Alaska Life

[16:17 – 19:33]

• Conversation about Keyes’ daughter:
  • “She likes animals…” (17:23, Keyes)
  • Discusses her writing in journals and being a “teacher’s pet.”
• Detectives evoke personal connection, referencing his daughter’s journal and family life, attempting to “humanize” Keyes and foster empathy.

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d. Transition to the Crime Investigation: The Card, Phone, and Pressures

[20:39 – 26:36]

• Police urge Keyes to “tell your own story”:
  • “If somebody else tells your story, they’re not going to get it right. And right now I think we’re kind of in that.” (19:42, Kevin Pullen)
• Keyes acknowledges possession and use of a suspicious debit card, but claims not to have used it in Alaska:
  • “I didn’t use that card until I was down here [Texas]. …never used it when I was in Alaska.” (26:25, Keyes)
• Describes how the card and phone came into his possession, maintains confusion about their origins.

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e. Details about the Card, Timeline, and Keyes’ Travel

[29:29 – 50:44]

• Describes finding the bag with the card and phone in his truck (Anchorage).
  • Claims it may have been tossed into his truck, mentions “weird stuff happening around the house.”
  • “There was somebody in the driveway who I didn’t recognize… they kind of walked out of the driveway when they saw me.” (32:55, Keyes)
• Details trip: Found items on Feb 4, 2012; flew to Vegas Feb 5; details logistics on storing and moving the card, phone, and associated items.
• Expresses paranoia about using the card, considers how to avoid leaving a paper trail.

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f. The Card’s Use: Actions and Admitted Withdrawals

[47:23 – 50:13]

• Keyes admits to using the card during his drive from Vegas to Texas, at small town ATMs (likely Arizona or New Mexico).
  • “Maybe two or three times [used it]. …the first or second time…I got some money out.” (47:23, Keyes)
  • “I was just really paranoid about it… almost trying to think of a way I could find out without, you know, like, leaving a paper trail.” (41:09, Keyes)

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g. Police Challenge Keyes with Forensic and Video Evidence

[55:17 – 79:14]

• Investigators tie physical evidence (the ski mask, clothing, truck, phone, ATM card) to the crime.
• Keyes is shown evidence recovered from his car—he is visibly agitated and alternately defensive or dismissive.
  • “You want to show me pictures of what was in my car? I know what was in my car.” (76:42, Keyes)
• Arguments about the significance of circumstantial evidence continue, e.g.,
  • “How many people driving through Texas in 80 degree weather have a cell phone that belongs to the victim, an ATM card that belongs to the victim’s boyfriend, a ski mask in 80 degree weather…?” (78:37, Kevin Pullen)

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h. Timeline Reconstruction & Brandings

[80:19 – 84:44]

• Detectives note a suspiciously torn photograph was attached to a ransom note; the torn section would have exposed Keyes’ unique “brand” (cattle-brand style burn) on his arm.
• Keyes is evasive, offers noncommittal responses.
  • “For all I know, you cut the corner off and you already know I have brands. You already asked me and took pictures of them all.” (82:18, Keyes)
• Conversation shifts between practical evidence and appeals to emotion/personal narrative.

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i. Detectives Confront Keyes on Vehicle and Surveillance Evidence

[84:44 – 89:54]

• Police explain how a combination of surveillance, analysis in Quantico, and diligent local work allowed them to identify Keyes’ truck, despite initial doubts based on toolboxes and vehicle detail mismatches.
  • “Analysts… can take a grainy photo of surveillance footage of a vehicle, and have means to find out the make, the model, the year… dead on accurate.” (70:52, Steve Raybourn)
• Discussion of cash withdrawals in specific Texas towns, tracking Keyes' movements.

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j. Keyes’ Resistance, Interview Winding Down

[96:00 – end]

• Detectives attempt emotional leverage: “What would you do if you received this? …if that was your daughter?” (95:58, Kevin Pullen)
• Keyes refuses further cooperation, becomes increasingly closed off:
  • “I’m not talking to you guys anymore … I’m just not going to talk to you about anything in Anchorage because you’re not in Anchorage." (97:18, Keyes)
• Ending on a tense note as Keyes signals shutdown; police note: “If he does want to talk… you know how to get a hold of us.”

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3. Noteworthy Quotes and Moments

• Josh on burnout: “It’s been at times crippling and debilitating…” (01:38, Josh)
• Detective on evidence-building: “It’s not fair to you. It’s not fair for anybody that reads that press release. Do you agree with that?” (20:53, Kevin Pullen)
• Keyes on guilt: “There are some things that I did. Obviously caught red handed.” (25:40, Keyes)
• Detective attempts empathy: “If somebody else tells your story, they’re not going to get it right.” (19:42, Kevin Pullen)
• Keyes’ resignation: “I’m not talking to you guys anymore.” (97:18, Keyes)

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4. Key Insights

• Police Interview Tactics: The detectives oscillate between empathy, confrontation, appeals to emotion, and barrages of forensic evidence, seeking to elicit confession or deeper detail.
• Keyes' Contradictory Nature: Keyes admits to anxiety and paranoia, is willing to discuss some aspects (logistics, timelines), but is evasive and defensive when pressed about the crime.
• Forensic Breakthroughs: The role of surveillance image specialists and forensic analysts (Quantico, VA) in matching grainy photos to vehicles proves critical.
• Emotional Tactics: Detectives repeatedly try to “humanize” the victim and connect to Keyes’ experience as a father.

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5. Episode Structure & Tone

• Language: Realistic, procedural, often tense; the tone vacillates between technical, colloquial, and emotionally resonant.
• Authenticity: The raw, long-form police interrogation offers a rarely heard, sobering window into both suspect psychology and detective methodology.

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6. Timestamps for Important Segments

• Host Josh Hallmark’s update: 01:32 – 02:54
• Beginning of Keyes Interview: 02:54
• Discussion of Keyes' childhood/family: 06:17 – 13:07
• Life in Alaska and daughter: 16:17 – 19:33
• Transition to crime details (credit card, phone): 20:39 – 26:36
• Detailed travel/card timeline: 29:29 – 50:44
• Physical evidence & confrontation: 55:17 – 79:14
• Crime scene/surveillance unraveling: 80:19 – 84:44
• Emotional/psychological appeals: 95:58 – 97:18
• Keyes’ interview termination & closing: 97:18 – end

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This episode is invaluable for those wanting the full context of Keyes’ early post-arrest state of mind, the procedural mechanics, and the realities—both human and forensic—of a high-profile serial case.

Transcript

[Josh]

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[Josh]

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[Podcast Host]

I wanted to pop in because obviously the show has been on an unexpected hiatus the past few weeks while we've been delivering bonus content. And while I like to keep my personal life personal, I do feel like I owe you guys an explanation. Essentially, I'm in major burnout, which is largely due to a pretty bad depression I've had over the last few months. It has been at times crippling and debilitating and it's been very challenging to give what little parts of myself I have two keys, but I know you guys have stuck with me for many years and many seasons and so I do feel like I owe you an explanation and I want to make sure I can deliver a satisfying season finale next week and we will be back in October, but unfortunately I've had to take a couple weeks off because I just haven't been able to put this show together in a meaningful way without compromising my mental health. I've slowly been working on a new season finale and as I said, that will be available next week. Thank you for your understanding and your support. True crime bullshit will Be back after this season finale in October. Thank you so much. And now, here is Keys very first interview upon his arrest in Texas.

[Steve Raybourn]

I'm Steve Raybourn with the Texas rangers. It's Saturday, March 17, 2012, 11:05pm Everybody in the room, please state their names.

[Israel Keyes]

John McElroy, the Assistant Federal Defender with the Eastern District of Texas. I'm Mr. Israel Keys, attorney Israel Keyes.

[Kevin Pullen]

Kevin Pullen, Lieutenant, Texas Rangers Hospital.

[Steve Raybourn]

Israel, you know, we've talked to you. I've talked to you a couple times before. I do want to talk to you about why you're in jail right now and because you're in custody, just like before. We can't talk to you or visit about this unless you waive your rights. And so I have to read your Miranda rights. You understand?

[Israel Keyes]

Yep.

[Steve Raybourn]

Before you're asked any questions, it's my duty to advise you of your rights and to warn you of the consequences of waiving these rights. You have the right to remain silent, not to make any statement at all on. Any statement you make may be used against you at your trial. Do you understand that?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

Any oral or written statement you make may be used as evidence against you in court. You understand that?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

Okay. You have the right to have a lawyer pressed to advise you before and during the questioning by peace officers or attorneys representing the state. You understand that?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

And if you're too poor to hire a lawyer, you have the right to have a lawyer appointed by the court to advise you before and during any questioning. Do you understand that?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

You have the right to terminate an interview at any time. You understand that? Yes. Are you willing to waive those so that we can visit about what we need to visit about?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes. Okay.

[Kevin Pullen]

If y' all don't mind. Israel, I don't know anything about you. Could you. Could you help me get to know you a little bit before we start talking? What do you do for a living?

[Israel Keyes]

You haven't read anything about me.

[Steve Raybourn]

This is my lieutenant that's out of Huntsville, and he's not being directly involved in this investigation. I've not submitted any reports to him. Okay. Obviously, I've come to know you pretty good by reading about you and studying you and, you know, searching the car that you were in and reading the reports. And I've been talking every day with Mickey Bleed Detective over in Anchorage. She knows that I'm here. They've already flown back to Anchorage. They come down here to talk to you. You chose not to talk, and they had to go back and keep working. And myself and Agent Gannaway have been keeping working here. We went through the car this morning, found all kind of stuff. But instead of going directly into the crime that you're accused of and things like that, if you could just visit with myself and my lieutenant so we can learn more about you from your perspective, I'd appreciate it.

[Israel Keyes]

Where you want me to start?

[Kevin Pullen]

Wherever you want to. Let's just communicate here. Let's just talk. They got coffee. And. You got time. And I got time. You got time. I'm good, Mr. McElroy. I'm good.

[Steve Raybourn]

We'll be here as long as you want us here, but we want to know who you are.

[Israel Keyes]

You've already read a lot about me.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, I've read what other people have written about you, and I've read blogs and I've looked on the Internet, but I haven't heard from your.

[Israel Keyes]

Tell me about what's on the Internet.

[Steve Raybourn]

This is a pretty big deal.

[Israel Keyes]

What, so my name's out there now, attached to this?

[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah. Anchorage did a press release.

[Israel Keyes]

Who? When?

[Steve Raybourn]

Anchorage PD A couple days ago. Israel, I hadn't lied to you at all. I'm shooting you straight up. If you want to know something, you ask me. I'll tell you if I know the answer. If I don't know the answer, I'll text somebody and find out. Okay? All I can. I told you, I'm, you know, I'm just a truth seeker here. But we want to know who you are from your perspective. I just don't believe what people tell me, you know?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know who's telling you anything. I've never had anybody say anything bad about me that I didn't know of.

[Steve Raybourn]

And you know what I haven't read in the blogs where anybody say anything bad about you. They call you a loner. They say you're good at your job. They say you're an excellent father.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, that's really all there is to say. Anyway.

[Kevin Pullen]

What do you do? What is your trade?

[Israel Keyes]

I'm a carpenter.

[Kevin Pullen]

Framing, trim work. I don't know which one. Everything.

[Israel Keyes]

Mostly residential.

[Kevin Pullen]

What do you like the best in the trade?

[Israel Keyes]

I like interior carpentry, mostly. What I've been doing last couple years,

[Kevin Pullen]

the cabinetry or trim work or what. Floors?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, everything.

[Kevin Pullen]

Wood floors, tile floors. Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

It's a little warmer on the interior, too, than it is on exterior in Alaska.

[Israel Keyes]

Makes it easier in the winter, that's for sure.

[Kevin Pullen]

Kind of an artist with your work.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know.

[Kevin Pullen]

Yeah, you do.

[Israel Keyes]

I like my work. If you like what you do, it's not work, right?

[Kevin Pullen]

Exactly. Do you stay busy?

[Israel Keyes]

Last couple years, yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

Who taught you how to do all that stuff?

[Israel Keyes]

I started when I was, I don't know, 17. Been doing off and on ever since. Mostly self taught, I guess, but no, I did have. I did have people who taught me when I was, you know, really young. Like the basics and stuff.

[Kevin Pullen]

Who taught you?

[Israel Keyes]

A guy named. In Washington.

[Kevin Pullen]

Friend of yours or relative?

[Israel Keyes]

He was a friend involved in the church we were in at the time.

[Kevin Pullen]

How did you get hooked up with him? Doing work

[Israel Keyes]

through the church thing.

[Kevin Pullen]

Doing it for people that you went to the church or belonged to the church or just.

[Israel Keyes]

No, he did it for a living.

[Kevin Pullen]

What'd you do?

[Israel Keyes]

He hired five or six. He usually five or six guys working for him.

[Kevin Pullen]

What did you start out doing with them? What was your first? Construction. Hey boy.

[Israel Keyes]

Yep,

[Kevin Pullen]

been there. I do understand from talking to Steve that you were homeschooling and you have numerous brothers and sisters.

[Israel Keyes]

Yep.

[Kevin Pullen]

You're one of nine or ten or more?

[Israel Keyes]

Ten, ten.

[Kevin Pullen]

How many brothers? How many sisters?

[Israel Keyes]

I have three brothers.

[Kevin Pullen]

Three brothers. Are you the oldest, Youngest, Oldest President. And you were raised in Alaska or down over here?

[Israel Keyes]

No, I was raised in Mount Saint Or Washington.

[Kevin Pullen]

Washington. Homeschooled. I understand. Who was your. Your parents? Did the home school? Parent or parents?

[Israel Keyes]

Both, I guess. Both.

[Kevin Pullen]

What did you think about that?

[Israel Keyes]

It's the only thing I ever knew.

[Kevin Pullen]

How does that work up there? It's kind of similar to the Texas. You. You got the study guides and you go back to the public schools to test. You test at home? No, there was no testing, no proficiency. You had to do

[Steve Raybourn]

so. Did you get a diploma of any kind?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, before I went in the army, I got a ged, but. But I didn't. There was never any official curriculum or testing for our home school.

[Kevin Pullen]

What year did you go in the table?

[Israel Keyes]

You might say.

[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

What year did you go in the army?

[Israel Keyes]

Either 99 or 2000. I don't remember. Had to be 99 or 98.

[Steve Raybourn]

I don't know. How'd that happen?

[Israel Keyes]

How to go in the Army? I got tired of living on the farm.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, I mean, did you see a commercial on TV or.

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'd always wanted to go in the Army.

[Steve Raybourn]

What was. What attracted you to the Army?

[Israel Keyes]

I'd read World War II books from the time I greed and thought it was all so great and wanted to go in.

[Kevin Pullen]

How long did you serve?

[Israel Keyes]

Just three years.

[Kevin Pullen]

Three years. Whereabouts did you serve?

[Israel Keyes]

I was stationed in Fort Lewis, Washington. I did training missions down here in Fort Hood, in Fort Irwin, in California, six months in Egypt. That was pretty much it.

[Steve Raybourn]

What made you leave the army?

[Israel Keyes]

I had a kid on the way.

[Kevin Pullen]

That'll do it.

[Israel Keyes]

Yep. Infantry and kids don't mix.

[Steve Raybourn]

You couldn't have changed jobs in the army and stayed in?

[Israel Keyes]

Maybe I could have. I don't know. I didn't really try that hard.

[Steve Raybourn]

Your only kid?

[Kevin Pullen]

Yep.

[Steve Raybourn]

From what I understand. Talking to folks that's talked to her. She's pretty sure.

[Podcast Host]

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[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah, I think she goes to public school.

[Kevin Pullen]

Yep.

[Steve Raybourn]

What grade did you say she was in?

[Israel Keyes]

Fourth.

[Steve Raybourn]

Does she write journals because she wants to, or is that something that she does on her own? Is that a part of a school assignment?

[Israel Keyes]

Not really.

[Steve Raybourn]

She just does it because she enjoys it.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, she, you know, needs a little coaxing.

[Steve Raybourn]

You encourage her to write in the journal?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, her teacher does, too.

[Steve Raybourn]

What's your teacher think about her

[Israel Keyes]

teacher's pet? Oh, really? Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

What she want to do? What does she want to do when she gets out of school?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know if she thinks that far ahead.

[Steve Raybourn]

I know a lot of girls want to be nurses and teachers and.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I don't know. She talks about a lot of different stuff, but yeah, she does.

[Steve Raybourn]

Does she like living in Alaska? Yeah, I know. She likes animals.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

You know what we've talked to. I haven't personally talked to, but I mean, they've shared with me other investigators have. About her journals and her poems that she puts in her journals and things like that. I did bring a part of her journal I wanted you to look at, if you wouldn't mind. It's something she wrote in her journal. I'll show it to you.

[Israel Keyes]

You took her journal from her?

[Steve Raybourn]

No. We got a search warrant on the car and there was a journal in the car. This ain't got nothing to do with the crime that you're accused of. It's just something that I want you to see if I can find it. Hang on a second. I don't know if you've ever seen this, but I thought you might enjoy it. Can you read that?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Steve Raybourn]

You can't just. A kid can't have a day like that anywhere except Alaska. They don't have moose that runs around in Texas. I also brought you something that you're welcome to keep. You can have both of them if you want them,

[Kevin Pullen]

if they'll let you have.

[Steve Raybourn]

If not, we'll put them in your property.

[Israel Keyes]

That's fine either way.

[Kevin Pullen]

Israel, I've always looked at things the way my daddy told me and my mama. You don't always. We don't always do things the right way, by the rules you're raised with, by society's rules. But anytime I got in trouble, Daddy, it was very abrupt, and he said, you can tell your own story or you can let somebody else tell it. If somebody else tells your story, they're not going to get it right. And right now I think we're kind of in that. I noticed you were shocked when Steve mentioned about the press release. I would be, too. I wish I knew more about you before we came over here, just so I'd be able to communicate with you better.

[Israel Keyes]

But

[Kevin Pullen]

it is what it is. That's the hand we're playing, we're dealt tonight. I don't know what's in the press release in Alaska, and I don't care.

[Israel Keyes]

That's because it's not you in it.

[Kevin Pullen]

And you're right. I didn't know until Steve said something that they had made a press release. So. I'm here. I drove several hours tonight to get here, and I'm here. As long as you want to talk to us and visit with us, I think it's best that you tell the story. Not for anybody else, but for Israel. I think that is some questions need to be answered. If that. If the press release doesn't have all the. The facts. Sometimes evidence doesn't tell the whole story. It just tells this, this, this and this. It doesn't tell all the facts. And that's not fair to you. It's not fair for anybody that reads that press release. Do you agree with that?

[Israel Keyes]

I haven't seen it so well.

[Kevin Pullen]

I don't either, but I can. Can you imagine that if only one side of the is telling the story,

[Israel Keyes]

it doesn't matter what the story is. I've been following the story from day one, and some of the things people say have nothing to do with what the facts is.

[Kevin Pullen]

Can you help us with what your perspective is on that? You said you don't know what the facts are or they don't know what the facts are. Can you help us with that?

[Israel Keyes]

Oh, I have a perspective on it. I honestly didn't think I'd be up this close and personal. My opinion about what's going on doesn't matter because, I mean, like I say, honestly I thought I was going to be talking to the detectives from Anchorage or that they would at least be here tonight because they're the only ones who gave me any insight into what might actually be going on. And I don't even know if that was real, what they showed me.

[Kevin Pullen]

So what did they show?

[Israel Keyes]

She showed me some kind of. It looked like a ransom note or something.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, I have it. Do you want to look at it again?

[Israel Keyes]

No, go ahead.

[Steve Raybourn]

Do you want to look at what was on the other side of that ransom note?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't want to know anything about any of this.

[Kevin Pullen]

Well, here's what. Here's all I know. I saw something on the news several weeks ago about a kidnapping. That's the last I heard of it. And about a week ago, the FBI office out of Bryan, Texas, I was talking to them about another matter and they had mentioned about a debit card that was being used along Highway 50. And the reason I'm telling you this is because you told me about your life and I'm going to tell you about this. This is what I know. And I asked the agent to send me the information and I looked at it and I said, hey, we need to look into this right now. I called Steve. He's one of the 10 Rangers I oversee. I said, get on this and see what you can find out from that point forward.

[Israel Keyes]

Forward.

[Kevin Pullen]

I have kept up with this and the circumstances related to this investigation. So I do know. It's not like I'm coming in here and don't have any idea. I don't. I don't know much about you, but I do know about this investigation and I just want to visit with you about it. I want. I want to know how you want to visit. If you want to visit. I think it's to your benefit to clear the air if things seem one sided based on the evidence that's been presented. I would like you to have that opportunity. I didn't have to come over here. It's not my job. My job is to sit at the house and call Steve or call someone else. But I just wanted to hear it from you. I haven't been in an interview room with anybody in over five years. That's not my job. Something about this. I wanted to come over here. I told Steve when he called me, I said I'd like to go. Well,

[Israel Keyes]

I mean, there. There are some things that I did. Obviously caught red handed. And that's mostly what I came in here to talk about was the credit card or debit card or Whatever it was, feel free.

[Kevin Pullen]

And you know,

[Israel Keyes]

there are some things I've only seen the

[Kevin Pullen]

complaint or whatever

[Israel Keyes]

that has me in here a couple times. There's some things on it I don't agree with.

[Kevin Pullen]

Let's get it out, let's get it open.

[Israel Keyes]

No, it's pretty simple. I mean, I didn't use that card until I was down here. I never used it when I was in Alaska.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay. Do you know who did?

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

No. Okay.

[Steve Raybourn]

And

[Israel Keyes]

that bag.

[Josh]

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[Steve Raybourn]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Israel Keyes]

That the cell phone was in. I'm sure you guys found that the cell phone in my gun case. I think that's where it was. That Ziploc bag is. The card was in there too. And the. I don't remember what happened to it, but there was a piece of tape, like blue painters tape on the front of the card. And I don't remember, I remember the gist of it had like some notes on it. But the one thing that was obvious, it had where the number was scratched on the card, it had a. An arrow pointing to it that said pin. And that's mostly what I wanted to talk to the Anchorage detectives about because that. Whoever made sure I got that bag is in Anchorage. That's where I got it.

[Podcast Host]

And.

[Israel Keyes]

If that piece of tape, when I took it off the card, I folded it in half like the two sticky sides together or whatever. So if it's not in that bag, that's what I was going to tell them is it might be in my truck. There's a box behind the seat that I throw garbage in and it might be in that

[Kevin Pullen]

where did you get the bag?

[Israel Keyes]

It was in my truck.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay, you see where you've gotten in a position here? Israel, you've got the phone.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I know.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay. How can. I'm here to help you. I'm here to offer you the opportunity to help yourself.

[Israel Keyes]

You're not here to help me.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm telling you, I don't interview people. There's something about this case doesn't make sense to me. It just doesn't make sense.

[Israel Keyes]

Anyway, that's all I have to say about it. You know, I'm sure you already did everything. You know, whatever, fingerprint, the bag or the phone or. I never even turned the phone on. I didn't recognize the name on the card.

[Podcast Host]

I do.

[Israel Keyes]

I do have a lot of clients, but I still didn't recognize the name.

[Kevin Pullen]

I thought maybe the name on the card.

[Israel Keyes]

You didn't recognize name on the card? Yeah, I had never heard it before. It was just a day or two before I was coming down here. And I didn't really think too much about it. But I did throw it. I threw it in my bag.

[Kevin Pullen]

You said it was in your truck. The bag, the phone, the card.

[Israel Keyes]

It was all in the bag.

[Kevin Pullen]

The clear plastic baggage. Okay, where was it in your truck?

[Israel Keyes]

It was on either the seat or the floorboards.

[Kevin Pullen]

Which one?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember. I think it was on the seat. And I remembered. Well, first of all, obviously a little

[Kevin Pullen]

weird,

[Israel Keyes]

but my truck, I remember, was locked. But I always had my. In the wintertime, my smart cigars out in my truck. And I leave the driver's side window down about that much. And it was down. And so it looked like someone might have just tossed it in. And there was some weird. I don't know, like 2020 hindsight. There was weird stuff happening around the house. And I didn't think anything of it at the time I even mentioned it, Kimberly, that there were some people. I was out. I was walking back from school after walking Laney to school. And I'm. There was somebody in the driveway who I didn't recognize. And I'm really paranoid because I have lots of tools in my work trailer. So I'm always paranoid, especially the neighbor kids, that they're going to try and run off with some or something.

[Kevin Pullen]

Can you describe the people that were in your driveway? No.

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was really cold out. Whoever it was, they were all bundled up. And I. You know, I didn't really think much of it. I thought maybe they had lost the dog. I mean, that stuff happens all the time. People Walk dogs. But they were standing by my trailer, and then they walked. They saw me coming around the corner about 200 yards away, and they kind of walked out of the driveway and then down the road, and it's a dead end road. And I never saw them again, so I assumed they were a neighbor. But I don't know that they were a neighbor.

[Kevin Pullen]

In relation to when you found the bag in your truck?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember when. I remember it was after I got back from Texas. Last time I got back into. I had to change my tickets. I think I got back into anchorage on the 17th maybe. I think originally it was supposed to be the 14th or something.

[Kevin Pullen]

From the time. Do you know about what day it was when you found that in your truck?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, like I say, it was about two days. I flew out on the fifth. Yeah, it was early. Early morning. I was sitting all day in Seattle. So it was the morning before that early morning when I went out to smoke.

[Kevin Pullen]

The fourth.

[Israel Keyes]

The fourth?

[Kevin Pullen]

Give or take or. Pretty sure it was the fourth.

[Israel Keyes]

It had. Well, it was third at the. No, it was the fourth.

[Kevin Pullen]

It was the fourth of February because

[Israel Keyes]

I was already packing.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay, so on the 4th of February, you found that baggie in your truck. You think it was on the seat?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was on the seat.

[Kevin Pullen]

It was on the seat.

[Israel Keyes]

Okay.

[Kevin Pullen]

And you were flying out on the fifth to where?

[Israel Keyes]

Las Vegas.

[Kevin Pullen]

Las Vegas.

[Steve Raybourn]

Okay.

[Kevin Pullen]

And what did you do with the card? Did you take it with you to Vegas, leave it in your truck or what?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was like I say, I threw it in my bag.

[Kevin Pullen]

The bag that you took.

[Israel Keyes]

I took the card out of the. I was sitting in the truck. I took the card out of the bag. I took the tape off. But then I put the card back in the bag, and I put the whole bag in my suitcase. I went to Vegas. We had a hotel room.

[Kevin Pullen]

I took the.

[Israel Keyes]

I had the guns in my case. I took the guns out of the case. I put them in the hotel safe at the Riviera. I took the phone, it was our whole bag, and stuck it in the safe. I don't know why I stuck it in the safe. But the next morning I lost quite a bit of money. Money lasted that night on the slots, probably like 3 or 400 bucks,

[Steve Raybourn]

which

[Israel Keyes]

I, you know, wasn't terrible. I had planned on losing maybe 100 or 200, but I, you know, I still had money. And I took, you know, took the guns out of the safe the next morning, put them back in my case,

[Podcast Host]

and

[Israel Keyes]

I took the card out of the bag, and I stuck it in my wallet and I took the phone. And. There was the chip. There was the SD card in with the phone. And for some reason, I was thinking I could get a new card. I was afraid. I don't know.

[Kevin Pullen]

I was.

[Israel Keyes]

I was super paranoid.

[Kevin Pullen]

About what?

[Israel Keyes]

About turning the phone on or putting the card in or whatever. Because I didn't trust the whole situation. So I was thinking I could get a new SD card or something or sell the phone to somebody or just dump it somewhere.

[Kevin Pullen]

I don't know what I said.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you.

[Kevin Pullen]

Did you have a phone?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

Why would you need a card for that phone if you had a phone?

[Israel Keyes]

No, I was thinking just getting rid of the phone, the one that was in the bag.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay, let's. Let's move. So now we're on. We're on the 6th, right? No, you flew out on the 5th, the 7th.

[Israel Keyes]

Okay.

[Kevin Pullen]

You were there for two days in Vegas?

[Israel Keyes]

No, We were stranded in Seattle for 14 hours. We got to Vegas on. We picked up the car on the 7th. I forgot. Pretty sure it was the 7th.

[Kevin Pullen]

So the layover in Washington might have put you a day up to the seventh.

[Israel Keyes]

I guess. I don't. Yeah, I don't remember. It seems like I'm missing a day somewhere. No, but we only stayed one night in Vegas, so whatever day it was. No, I'm pretty sure it was the seventh.

[Kevin Pullen]

What hotel? What hotel?

[Israel Keyes]

Riviera.

[Kevin Pullen]

Riviera. Okay. So then what happened? You've got the card now is in your wallet.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

And the phone still.

[Israel Keyes]

I stuck it in the gun case.

[Kevin Pullen]

In the gun case?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. I don't know why I threw it in there. Like I say, it was in the safe.

[Podcast Host]

And

[Israel Keyes]

the little chip thing, I was gonna toss it, and then for some reason, I was thinking, well, I might not be able to get another chip for it or something. And I stuck it in the CD case or something. But, I mean, I almost threw it away. I don't know. Like I say, I was thinking I would just throw the whole phone away, but I don't know. I hadn't decided what to do with any of it yet. And then we went and got the car. We got a. Got a cab from the hotel, went and got the car, and. I think we headed straight out. Straight out of Vegas after that.

[Kevin Pullen]

2.

[Israel Keyes]

While I was heading down

[Kevin Pullen]

towards Hoover

[Israel Keyes]

Dam, because that's where, like, all the main routes to get to Texas were. There was, like, I40 and there was I10. And I don't know, like, there's Only a couple different ways to go. So we. We started heading out of Vegas, and I just. I started thinking that, you know, like, maybe I should. I had the card, and I was. I guess I was just curious. I was, like, wondering if there was actually any money on it. Almost trying to think of a way I could find out without. Because I knew something was fishy about it.

[Steve Raybourn]

I didn't.

[Israel Keyes]

I didn't. So I was just trying to figure out a way to find out without, you know, like, leaving a paper trail or whatever.

[Kevin Pullen]

So did you use the car in Vegas? No. Did you try.

[Steve Raybourn]

No. Okay.

[Israel Keyes]

No, I stopped. Not far. Like, right on the outskirts to Vegas, there's a big Walmart. I think it's in a place called Henderson. The receipt might have even been in the car somewhere. I don't know. But we stopped at that Walmart and I got a bunch of stuff. I got snacks and stuff for the road. And I also picked up a bunch of stuff sinking in the back of my mind that I might try and, you know, like, put on a disguise and see if there was any money on the card. And so I bought some gloves and.

[Kevin Pullen]

Well, you guys.

[Israel Keyes]

You guys know what was in there. I bought gloves and a T shirt and some glasses and.

[Kevin Pullen]

What else did you back.

[Israel Keyes]

I already had the sweatshirt. I don't know where I got that sweatshirt. It was way too big. Yeah, I think that was it. Just, like, gloves and a T shirt.

[Steve Raybourn]

How long have you had the sweatshirt?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't. I think that sweatshirt I must have brought from the house. I don't normally wear sweatshirts, but. No, it was in my. In my big bag where the gun case was, and I think it was in the basement. I was cleaning up at the house, and there was, like, a bunch of clothes around, and I think I just threw some stuff in there, like around the gun case. I think that's where that sweatshirt came from, because I didn't. I don't think I've ever worn it before.

[Kevin Pullen]

So then what happened? Did you. Did you pay for that stuff with that card or your own money?

[Israel Keyes]

No. No, I. I didn't use that card at all. I was. I was super paranoid. I didn't want to use that card anywhere.

[Steve Raybourn]

Was that cord making you miserable? That card and that phone, was that causing you grief?

[Israel Keyes]

I wouldn't say it was making me miserable. I was just really paranoid about it. But at the same time, I was thinking the thing on the card said something to the effect of, like, for some of the money I owe you, or Something really fishy like that, you know, and it sounds stupid, but I have had a lot of clients over the years who didn't pay me. And so I think in the back of my head I was thinking, well, gee, maybe this is like a present from a client. Even though I knew that wasn't the case, I'm. I mean, I, I think I knew. I don't know.

[Kevin Pullen]

Whatever.

[Israel Keyes]

I did it.

[Kevin Pullen]

All right, so the seventh about stuff at Walmart.

[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah, we're talking about March, right? Or is it February?

[Israel Keyes]

No, this just. Yeah, like a few days ago.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay, so March 4th, is that when you're saying that was in your car?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

And the fifth, you fly out,

[Josh]

go

[Kevin Pullen]

to Vegas, you lose a bunch of hours in Washington trying to remember if

[Israel Keyes]

it was the fifth or. Yeah, I don't know, it was one of those red eye flights.

[Podcast Host]

So

[Israel Keyes]

I can't remember if it was like early morning of the sixth or early morning of the fifth. Yeah. But we got. Anyway, there was an 11 hour layover in Seattle and then our flight got delayed for another four hours or something like that. So we were there for a while. Itinerary was in the car. I'm sure you guys probably found it.

[Kevin Pullen]

So you leave Vegas, you leave outside of Vegas, from the. To Walmart, you head, take I10 south.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. We stopped at Hoover Dam for a while. There's pictures on that camera that was in the car.

[Kevin Pullen]

Did you overnight anywhere else between Vegas and.

[Israel Keyes]

No, I drove straight through,

[Steve Raybourn]

like an

[Kevin Pullen]

hour and a half.

[Israel Keyes]

I slept somewhere. I don't even remember where.

[Kevin Pullen]

And you get to Houston. Do you remember what day, what date or day that you get? The Houston area.

[Steve Raybourn]

Where did you go?

[Israel Keyes]

What do you mean?

[Steve Raybourn]

Where did you go? When you, when you woke up from your. You said you slept. What was, what happened next?

[Israel Keyes]

Oh, I don't, I don't remember where it was. It wasn't far. I think we only had about six hours to go. Six hours of driving to go. And I just, I was too tired, so I just stopped. Slept for like an hour and a half. No, at that point I had already used that curtain or tried to use it. I don't know. I was really tired. Like the second or third time I tried to use it, I think so I don't even remember where it was.

[Kevin Pullen]

How many times did you try to use it?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember that first night. Maybe two or three times.

[Kevin Pullen]

Did you try to use them to make purchases or. No. Atm?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

Were you ever successful?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, no, I did. I got Some money out. And it said there was. I think the first or the second time I used it, it said there was like two or three thousand dollars on it. So I was thinking I would just.

[Steve Raybourn]

Israel, I know a lot of times when things happen repeatedly you do something a whole lot something. Sometimes it's hard to remember every time. But generally people can remember the first time and the last time that they did something. They may not be able to remember all of them. Can you tell me about the first time? I mean, surely you got to remember the first time that you tried to use it. Can we talk about just the first time?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

Can you describe that to me about where you were and how happen.

[Israel Keyes]

It was at a bank and I was really nervous and there was nobody around, but I was still really paranoid or whatever.

[Steve Raybourn]

And

[Israel Keyes]

I like, I can remember thinking after I. There was something that went wrong at the atm, like it wasn't. It wouldn't. It didn't work the first time. And I almost just turned around and walked away. And then I think I put in like a lower amount or something and tried again and it worked.

[Steve Raybourn]

When was the first time that you tried to use it?

[Israel Keyes]

I just told you.

[Steve Raybourn]

You said it was at a bank.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. On the drive from Vegas.

[Kevin Pullen]

How many days did it take you to drive from Vegas?

[Israel Keyes]

It's 20. I think it was supposed to be like a 22 or a 23 hour drive. So that was. It would have been about. It was late. It probably would have been about 12 hours into the drive. I don't know, halfway there maybe.

[Steve Raybourn]

Where was the bank located at?

[Israel Keyes]

In a little town, I don't know, somewhere off the freeway.

[Steve Raybourn]

Can you tell me what state?

[Israel Keyes]

No, no. Well, I think the. I think in the paper you had it said Arizona, which sounds right. I don't know in the paper I had. Yeah, the criminal complaint against. Oh, and the complaint, I think it said Arizona. It seemed like it was New Mexico to me, but I don't know because it seemed like I was in Texas not long after that. But I don't know

[Steve Raybourn]

where was at during this attempt.

[Israel Keyes]

She was asleep in the back. Back of the car.

[Steve Raybourn]

What kind of car were you in?

[Israel Keyes]

You know what kind of car I was in?

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, I mean, I know what I think I do, but you tell me, were you in that car?

[Kevin Pullen]

Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

That same car?

[Kevin Pullen]

Yeah. Okay.

[Steve Raybourn]

Same license plate and everything?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

Okay. Was with you, but she was asleep in the back seat?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, well, yeah, I think she was asleep.

[Steve Raybourn]

What were you wearing?

[Israel Keyes]

You got the video?

[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah, but I want to Hear it from you.

[Israel Keyes]

I already described what my whole get up was like, my whole plan. And I remember thinking after I got in the car, I was like, oh, man, I forgot to put on my disguise or something. I don't remember what I was thinking. I remember thinking, I was like, if it was a stolen card. I remember thinking I was busted because I thought I had forgot to put on my mask or my glasses. It was really late and I was already getting tired. And I remember thinking I screwed up or something.

[Steve Raybourn]

Were you intoxicated or anything?

[Kevin Pullen]

No.

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Steve Raybourn]

Because you told me, I guess on the day we picked you up, you told me you've never been in trouble with the police except for shoplifting, but you have a dui.

[Israel Keyes]

Dui? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I forgot about that.

[Kevin Pullen]

Your. Your truck that you spoke of, that's your work truck?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

You told. You said it have a trailer that has tools in it. Yeah. Excuse me. You keep both of those at the house?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. Well, not all the time, but most of the time they're there.

[Kevin Pullen]

Is anybody else. Who do you work? Do you work with other people or you pretty much work by yourself?

[Israel Keyes]

No, but I. I work by myself. No, I do work with other people sometimes.

[Podcast Host]

I've.

[Israel Keyes]

I've hired on other people on big jobs, but for the most part it's just me. I'm only licensed to work with just me, put it that way.

[Kevin Pullen]

License is a lot strict. More strict up there, I guess, than down here for residential construction?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. I have to have, you know, you

[Kevin Pullen]

have to have a list of everybody.

[Israel Keyes]

I. I'm just saying technically, to have anyone work for you, you have to have workman's confidence. And it has to be listed on your business plan and all that. And I'm not supposed to have people work for me, but I do hire like day labor sometimes.

[Kevin Pullen]

Sell them out, sub stuff. Okay. Who all drives your truck?

[Israel Keyes]

Only me.

[Podcast Host]

Just you.

[Kevin Pullen]

I don't trust anyone, Anybody ever. You ever come home and notice it's not where it's supposed to be, or maybe somebody used it or. Anybody ever stolen your truck?

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

No. Do you live by yourself?

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

Who you live with?

[Israel Keyes]

Her name's Kim.

[Kevin Pullen]

Does Kimberly have a key to your truck?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Kevin Pullen]

Does she drive it?

[Israel Keyes]

No. Well, she has, very rarely.

[Kevin Pullen]

She doesn't like to drive a big truck?

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Steve Raybourn]

Does she have her own vehicle?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

What does she have?

[Israel Keyes]

She has a Nissan Xterra.

[Steve Raybourn]

What color is it?

[Kevin Pullen]

Silver.

[Steve Raybourn]

What kind of truck do you have?

[Israel Keyes]

A white Chevy Silverado.

[Steve Raybourn]

2500 you got like a sign on the side of it for your business?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, I have my number. And, I mean, it's got like big toolboxes on the back and a lumber rack and. And it's got my number. And anytime I have my trailer, there's like a really big sign on the back of the trailer. So, I mean, a lot of people around town know me. I've been working there for a while.

[Kevin Pullen]

How long have you been working up there?

[Israel Keyes]

Five years.

[Kevin Pullen]

Five years. How many sets of keys do you have to your trip?

[Israel Keyes]

I have one set.

[Kevin Pullen]

One set.

[Israel Keyes]

And there's an extra key underneath the truck.

[Kevin Pullen]

One of those magnetic things?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it's wired to the frame somewhere. I don't even remember where at this point. But there is one under there somewhere

[Kevin Pullen]

in case you lock yourself out.

[Israel Keyes]

Right.

[Kevin Pullen]

Anybody else know that's under there?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know how.

[Kevin Pullen]

You don't know how or.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know how they would.

[Kevin Pullen]

You're discreet about it. If you ever.

[Israel Keyes]

I never told anyone. And the only way anyone would know is if they were crawling around under there.

[Steve Raybourn]

Does that key. This is a Chevy. So does that key unlock just the doors or does that also start the engine?

[Kevin Pullen]

It's.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, it's just a key. I mean, it'll do everything.

[Steve Raybourn]

It does the doors and the ignition.

[Israel Keyes]

It's not electronic. It doesn't have the chip.

[Steve Raybourn]

It's a one key for both.

[Israel Keyes]

Right. Okay.

[Kevin Pullen]

And what kind of car does your girlfriend or your housemate.

[Israel Keyes]

Nissan Xterra. Oh.

[Kevin Pullen]

Little SUV with compact four wheel drive. Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

In Alaska.

[Kevin Pullen]

Has to be.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

They got, like, moose in their backyard.

[Kevin Pullen]

And it's.

[Steve Raybourn]

What color celery?

[Podcast Host]

Silver.

[Kevin Pullen]

Silver.

[Israel Keyes]

Okay.

[Kevin Pullen]

And yours is white.

[Israel Keyes]

Hers is silver.

[Steve Raybourn]

Do you drive hers? I know I drive my wife's.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, well, I do, but, I mean, she's. If she's home, she's. She works longer hours than me.

[Steve Raybourn]

But when y' all go out to eat, go somewhere, do y' all take your truck or do you take her car? Her steer?

[Israel Keyes]

Oh, usually hers.

[Steve Raybourn]

Do you drive or does she drive when y'. All.

[Israel Keyes]

Either or.

[Kevin Pullen]

50.

[Israel Keyes]

50.

[Steve Raybourn]

Do you have keys to hers?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

You pay for insurance for hers and yours, or do y' all keep, like, separate?

[Israel Keyes]

Separate.

[Kevin Pullen]

Now, let me ask you. I understand the car. I understand that there was some curiosity. You're not sure why it was there. Maybe somebody wanted you to have some money that they owed you from prior construction.

[Israel Keyes]

Beliefs that. But. Yeah, we'll go with that.

[Kevin Pullen]

But it was an option, right? Made you feel better about you Right, but the phone was making you nervous. I think you had said that both

[Israel Keyes]

of them were making me nervous. The phone was making me nervous because I knew if I turned it on, I might learn more about where the card came from. And the card was making me nervous because I knew if I used it and it was stolen, then it would be pretty much just like I stole it. So, yeah, they were both making me nervous.

[Kevin Pullen]

The SIM card in the phone, when you found it in the truck, you took it out?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was all in the bag. It was all taken apart.

[Kevin Pullen]

So the SIM card was out of the phone in the bag? In the bag. Was the battery in the phone?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was all taken apart. I mean, yeah, with the exception of the little card, it was. I didn't mess with the phone. Should have been just like it was when you guys found it in the gun case.

[Kevin Pullen]

You know, depending on where you are, whether you're in a rural area or in a metropolitan area, on the average, this was like five years ago, on the average, a study was done that we're on video camera eight times a day and that, you know, of course that's going to. If you're in a metropolitan area, it's going to be many more times versus a rural area. I'm sure that technology, with traffic cameras, red light cameras along the interstates where they're monitoring traffic, I'm sure it's increased. Would you agree with that?

[Israel Keyes]

Oh, yeah, sure.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm trying to figure out some things that I just can't. I just can't complain. Up with the answer.

[Israel Keyes]

And.

[Kevin Pullen]

I think it would help you if we could figure out the answer. We can change a press release, possibly remove some doubts in people's mind, family, friends. Because right now we're looking real good. We leave Washington, fourth or fifth, maybe the sixth, depending on how long you laid over. Well, it would be the fifth or the sixth. Go to Vegas, lose $300. You did pretty good. If you only lost 300 bucks, you go to Hoover Dam somewhere in Arizona, you think, possibly a small town, you stopped.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't seen it on that paper about. I take the paper's word for it.

[Kevin Pullen]

I think your words were halfway. Somewhere around halfway.

[Israel Keyes]

Right.

[Kevin Pullen]

So 12 hours, 12 hours into it. Somewhere between 11 and 12 hours into it. Did you take that nap before or after you used it?

[Israel Keyes]

After.

[Kevin Pullen]

After.

[Israel Keyes]

I was. Like I said, I was six hours out. When I took a nap

[Podcast Host]

after you

[Israel Keyes]

use the cord, I was six hours out from Here or from Wells?

[Kevin Pullen]

From Wales. So Wales is what, three hours, three and a half hours. From Houston?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. No, two and a half.

[Kevin Pullen]

Maybe two and a half. So you must have been in the Houston area.

[Israel Keyes]

No, I was outside. I don't know how far. I think I let. I wasn't keeping really close track. I was going to. Going by the timer on the dash, how many hours it had said I drove. I think it said I had driven, I don't know, like 16 or 17 hours. And that's when I stopped.

[Kevin Pullen]

Do you have a gps, is that what you're saying?

[Israel Keyes]

No,

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

Where did you park when you used the ATM cord the first time? Well, be able to start with the first time you guys got a good

[Israel Keyes]

picture of it right by the thing. It was funny too, because as I was leaving I saw that camera and I was like, oh, crap, you. I was thinking that they didn't work at night or something.

[Kevin Pullen]

So where'd you park it?

[Israel Keyes]

Right. Right behind the bank.

[Kevin Pullen]

Behind the bank. Was it a drive up ATM or was it.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, but I didn't drive up. I was thinking that if I parked far enough away from the bank that if there were any cameras that they wouldn't see the car. I don't know.

[Kevin Pullen]

Now, when did you first hear. You said you had followed this case or you knew something about this young lady's abduction?

[Israel Keyes]

No, I read. I read the Anchorage news all the time, especially when we're out of town.

[Kevin Pullen]

And forgive me, but I took you forward from there. You said you had some ideas about this thing.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, I don't know. I read all the stories. Let's put it that way.

[Kevin Pullen]

Was there. She's 18. 18 year old?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

She have a boyfriend?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

Was his name. Was he ever a suspect or a person of interest? A person of interest.

[Israel Keyes]

Honestly, my whole impression of this whole thing has been that there hasn't been any new news on it, at least in the media, since the first week. I've read all the stories since then, but there hasn't been any. I haven't read anything that I was like, oh, wow, this is something new. It was pretty much like the same thing over and over. I still read everything. I just wasn't.

[Steve Raybourn]

How did you read it? Do you get the physical newspaper or do you read it online? What news outlets are there up there that follow this thing?

[Israel Keyes]

Oh, I mean, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of news up there. It's not all that good, but there's two or three that are pretty good.

[Steve Raybourn]

TV channels or newspapers.

[Israel Keyes]

There's two TV channels that cover the news pretty well. And then there's the newspaper. Newspaper, the adn Anchorage Daily News, I guess.

[Steve Raybourn]

So there's one newspaper and a couple of.

[Israel Keyes]

There's more than one newspaper, but yeah, that's the only one that has all

[Kevin Pullen]

the

[Steve Raybourn]

Would you say that this girl's disappearance is a big story in Anchorage, Alaska?

[Israel Keyes]

The biggest one I've ever read about since I was up there.

[Steve Raybourn]

Did you get any ideas when you were reading about what might have happened to her? Did you have any ideas from reading all the stories? Did you form any conclusions or do you have an idea what might have happened to her?

[Israel Keyes]

I know what I read. I mean they were pretty clear about what they thought had happened. And like I say, the, the theory never really changed from. I mean if you read everybody's opinion on what happened, then there are lots of other theories. But as far as the police and the media was concerned there, their reporting never changed on it as far as what they thought happened.

[Steve Raybourn]

Now when you're talking about hearing everybody's opinion, what how did you think. How did you know whoever.

[Israel Keyes]

What everybody's opinion Comments like comment bulletins. It's a lot more entertaining than the news store on the online. Yeah.

[Steve Raybourn]

Did you ever make any comments?

[Israel Keyes]

I think I may have commented. I don't really comment much anymore. I used to comment a lot and then I realized that only the biggest assholes make comments on the news stores up there. So I quit commenting because it's like beating your head against a brick wall. But I did, I think I did maybe comment once or twice.

[Steve Raybourn]

What did you say?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember. It was early, it was a while ago. It was shortly after it came out and since then I've just checked for updates and I don't really spend as much time reading about it.

[Steve Raybourn]

Do you remember what news outlet it was that you commented on?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, it would have been on adn.

[Steve Raybourn]

And how many times did you come?

[Israel Keyes]

Like I say, maybe once or twice.

[Steve Raybourn]

Do you have a name that you go under when you comment or do you go into your name I Z. I T. I Z I T.

[Israel Keyes]

What? That's my screen name.

[Steve Raybourn]

That's your screen name. Do you ever comment under Israel? No, never.

[Israel Keyes]

I honestly, I don't even remember setting that thing up. It just asked for a name and I just typed that in and then it just started posting my comments. So I never got that into it. But there were a couple stories on mostly like I say in the past that I got in pretty heated debates with People on and yeah, that was my screening.

[Steve Raybourn]

Did you see the. On a humorous note, did you see the story about the guy you'll find this interesting about the guy that owned the strip club where dancers dance nude. They do that in Alaska. And the guy that owned the club was going to award his business for anyone that had information about the disappearance of this girl. And he gave them 10 days. If somebody come up with a club that led to this girl, he was going to give away his dance hall, his strip club.

[Israel Keyes]

I thought that was kind of weird.

[Steve Raybourn]

Did you comment on that?

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

But you followed the story?

[Israel Keyes]

Yes.

[Kevin Pullen]

And for how long? Till

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember when the last time I.

[Kevin Pullen]

During your trip?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't think I checked on it on this trip. I'm sure I checked this. I wasn't checking specifically on that story anymore. I mean I was just checking news headlines or whatever. So I probably checked, I don't know, checked the news before I left. I don't remember exactly.

[Kevin Pullen]

Did you ever wonder following that story as closely as you did? The young lady's boyfriend's name was mentioned numerous times. First and last name.

[Israel Keyes]

No, it wasn't.

[Kevin Pullen]

It wasn't.

[Israel Keyes]

They kept it very like they kept everyone around except for her dad. I don't remember reading any names.

[Kevin Pullen]

Rim.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, it seems like they didn't release any information about anyone. Oh no, the guy. The guy who they suspected, who everybody

[Kevin Pullen]

was

[Israel Keyes]

bad mouthing at first they had his name up all over the place, but I. I don't know. Her boyfriend's name may have been in there. I don't remember. Certainly not reading his full name.

[Kevin Pullen]

When Ranger Rayburn contacted you at the hotel.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, at the parking lot of the restaurant.

[Israel Keyes]

At the parking lot.

[Kevin Pullen]

The reason that your vehicle was found. We were looking for a white Ford and Ranger Rayburn got the highway patrol and the local police and all interested and they were checking hotels and motels. And just over 24 hours after I assigned the case to him, a highway patrolman said, well, there's a car like that. Of course go to check once you. The traffic stop was made

[Josh]

and I

[Kevin Pullen]

don't want you to get inked up here. I'm just going to answer, try to get some questions answered in my mind. I don't want you to get nervous. It will back up. Slow down. Okay. But once they made contact with you and got your name, Ranger Rayburn was in immediate contact with the FBI agent who called me, who in turn contacted FBI agent in Alaska and they sent people to your house immediately and within just A very short period of time. They discovered the truck used in the abduction that was captured on video sitting in your driveway. And nobody else drives it, according to you. See where this is?

[Israel Keyes]

If they knew. If they knew what truck was used in the abduction, then they would have had me a long time ago.

[Kevin Pullen]

They didn't have a license plate. They just had a video over the side of it. We didn't have a license plate of your car. We had a picture of the side of it. And the analyst, the criminal analyst in Quantico, Virginia, looked at it and told the agents what type of car it was. They have a database. They look at the windshield shape and stuff. We just knew we were looking for a white Ford. What was the Fusion? Is that what it was? What was the car? The rent car Escort or whatever are you talking about?

[Israel Keyes]

You just said the.

[Kevin Pullen]

No, I'm just telling you that we didn't know. I was just referring to the license plates. We didn't know the license plate on the car you were driving when you came through Texas.

[Steve Raybourn]

Those analysts, those experts can take a grainy photo of surveillance footage of a vehicle, and they have means to find out the make, the model, the year. They look at the windshield placements and all that. In fact, when I got the granny photo from Shepherd, Texas, and New Mexico and Arizona of this white cloth car that you were in, myself and this corporal that pulled you over, who's got like 20 years on as a trooper and has done nothing but ride up and down the road looking at cars, he looked at that grainy photo and he said, that ain't a Ford. There ain't no way that's a Ford. And I had to call the FBI agent in Alaska, and they said, man, I sent it to Quantico. They did windshield comparison analysis. They did this, they did that. I guarantee you, you know, and I put this bulletin out all over southeast Texas because you were coming northbound on 59. I said, he's got to come through die ball. You know, I'm checking the red light cameras. I'm checking videotapes from police cars parked on the side of the road running traffic. I mean, I'm looking hard right before we found this car at the motel. And everybody was convinced it's not a Ford. But they're so good in Quantico that they told me not only that it was the kind of vehicle it was, they told me the make and the year model, and they were dead on, dead on accurate. And, you know, they're looking at grainy photos of this truck. And they're. One sits in the driveway. That's just like what they say was used in the abduction.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't. You know, there's a lot of trucks like that in Anchorage, but there's not that many. If they were that sure, then they would have been talking to me a while ago.

[Steve Raybourn]

They actually had a list of every one.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, they've been taking their sweet time because, like I say, there's not that many. They never talk to many.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, they looked at yours early on, and they dismissed it. You know why they dismissed it?

[Israel Keyes]

No. I'm not even sure if I believe what you're telling me right now.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, you know. You know what the truth is.

[Israel Keyes]

You're damn right I do.

[Steve Raybourn]

They told me they dismissed it because there were toolboxes on your truck.

[Israel Keyes]

There are toolboxes on my truck?

[Podcast Host]

Yes.

[Steve Raybourn]

Yes, there are. And there weren't toolboxes on the truck used in the induction. So they dismissed it. Kind of like the Lufkin police officer that pulled up and stopped the night before you were stopped or early that morning, he took the little hat out of his pocket and looked at that car in that motel parking lot. He's writing down the license plate. There you are. Right. You know why he dismissed it? He dismissed it because of that Texas tax. And he says, there's no way this thing has Texas tax. We're not looking for a car with Texas tax. He dismissed it. But here's a question I got for you and only you can answer. Why didn't you leave after the Lufkin policeman in uniform is writing down your license plate number? Why didn't you leave right then? You told me this phone was making you nervous. You knew you made these ATM withdrawals.

[Israel Keyes]

Because I honestly. There was a really hinky looking van sitting right next to my car with temporary tags on it, and it had for sale, like, sprawled all over the windows. And my brother and I were talking about that. And, like, what the heck was that about? And I said, he's an undercover guy looking for stolen vehicles. I said, I'll bet that's what he. It never entered my mind that he would be looking for me, because honestly, in my mind, all I had was a freaking debit card that didn't belong to me. And even though I was really paranoid that I would get caught eventually, whether it be from my license plate or from someone recognizing me from a camera, I didn't think they were gonna have it did.

[Kevin Pullen]

It did.

[Israel Keyes]

Like I did wonder. And then I was like, no, no way. I Mean, I just barely used it. There's no way they're out trying to find my car already or, you know, I don't know. Good question.

[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah, here's the question.

[Israel Keyes]

Here's a good question.

[Kevin Pullen]

Help me understand this. The abduction, or at least parts of it, were captured on video as well. Surveillance video. In the black mask. Certain other clothing items.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. They never showed it.

[Josh]

So?

[Podcast Host]

So?

[Kevin Pullen]

Well, it's real easy to. I could show you. Because. Identity. Very identical. Very similar. Identical clothing items were in your car when they processed it this morning. Probably yesterday morning by now.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know what you're talking about. You just said black mask. I didn't have a black mask in the car. Not that I remember. Like I said, I had that gray.

[Kevin Pullen]

Gray. Maybe there's a dark gray. Would you like to see the picture?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know.

[Steve Raybourn]

In your car, I mean. It's yours. You'll recognize.

[Kevin Pullen]

Go back to that deal. We've got pictures.

[Israel Keyes]

You want to show me pictures of what was in my car? I know what was in my car.

[Steve Raybourn]

And there wasn't a ski mask in there.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember there being a ski mask right now. Oh, I recognize that.

[Steve Raybourn]

How do you recognize it?

[Israel Keyes]

I'm surprised that it was in there. I don't remember putting it in there.

[Steve Raybourn]

How'd that paint get on there? I know you're in construction, but do you get to paint much in Alaska?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I paint all the time.

[Steve Raybourn]

How'd the paint get on there?

[Israel Keyes]

Probably when I was painting.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, this is a question I had. Ain't got nothing to do with the crime. It's got to do with construction. I got a question about it. If it's so cold and only somebody from Alaska can answer it. If it's so cold that you gotta wear one of these on your face.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't wear that on my face.

[Steve Raybourn]

Then how could you paint? How does the paint dry if it's so cold? Even if it's indoors, if it's so cold, you gotta wear one of these. How can you paint?

[Israel Keyes]

That's all I wear is those kind of hats for six months of the year. Not ski masks, but beanies like that one. When I wear it, I fold it up and wear it like a beanie. That's probably the warmest hat I have.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, let me tell you that Anchorage, through surveillance photos, Anchorage PD believes that this mask was worn by the person that abducted that girl.

[Israel Keyes]

Do you know how many people in Anchorage wear ski masks this time of year?

[Steve Raybourn]

I didn't tell you. The Texas Rangers believe it.

[Israel Keyes]

I know. That's why I'm kind of disappointed Anchorage PD isn't here.

[Kevin Pullen]

But how many people driving through Texas in 80 degree weather have a cell phone that belongs to the victim,

[Israel Keyes]

an

[Kevin Pullen]

ATM card that belongs to the victim's boyfriend, a ski mask in 80 degree weather, a gray hoodie that you don't remember how it got there or how it got packed to begin with? AAA's are large. But then you don't know how that got in your car, but you only rented the car a few days before.

[Israel Keyes]

No, that. That is mine.

[Podcast Host]

It was.

[Israel Keyes]

It came out of my suitcase. And it's no surprise that it came out of my suitcase.

[Kevin Pullen]

I mean, do you have any tattoos?

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

Any scars? Identify what?

[Israel Keyes]

Like, I have brands.

[Kevin Pullen]

Whereabouts?

[Israel Keyes]

I have them all over. I have one on each arm, one on each side of my chest.

[Kevin Pullen]

You say brands.

[Israel Keyes]

Brands, yes.

[Kevin Pullen]

Is that geographical term or is it like literally a burn brand, like a Texas cow? Really?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

Can I see it?

[Podcast Host]

Iz.

[Steve Raybourn]

Iz for Izzy is.

[Kevin Pullen]

Is that's a smiley face anymore?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I got, like I say, I got one on my back and one on two on my chest.

[Kevin Pullen]

Somebody took a lot of time, prepared this. This was sent with the ransom note. But what I do notice on here, and I understand that these things. Can be offensive, but if you notice on this photograph how the corners go to near 90 degrees, except for this one, which is just above whoever's holding this girl by the hair, wearing a glove, that part of the photograph is torn off, guess what part of that would be about where your brand is? That part of the photograph was obscured for some reason or another. Isn't that odd?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. You tell me. Well, how many people have tattoos on their arms?

[Kevin Pullen]

I don't know. How many people have tattoos on their arms that have her cell phone, her boyfriend's ATM card, clothing items similar, if not the same as the abductor had. Oh, we forgot to talk about your girlfriend's car being used in Alaska at an ATM with that card. You see how those stories, when you talk about when I told you early on, somebody's going to tell your story for you, Israel. Somebody's going to tell it. It's best to tell your story yourself or somebody else will do it without your help.

[Steve Raybourn]

Israel, this is about you.

[Kevin Pullen]

It's about you.

[Israel Keyes]

This has become about you guys and the story you want to tell me. I'm not trying to show me a bunch of crazy pictures. And you know, for all I know, you cut the corner off and you already know I have brands. You already asked me me and took pictures of them all. And this could hold.

[Steve Raybourn]

Be a whole. No, we didn't take pictures of.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, somebody did several pictures of it.

[Steve Raybourn]

I don't know.

[Israel Keyes]

I'm just saying you could know that at this point.

[Steve Raybourn]

Yeah, it caused me to be suspicious.

[Kevin Pullen]

Israel, I have no dog in this case. This case is not a Texas case. We've been asked to assist. I have no reason to sit here. I'm just telling you. Here's some things that I see that are adding up and not one of them standing alone is anything. It's like a piece of plywood. It's not a piece of plywood. Teeth at all. The layers together and bond them. This thing is. This thing's out of hand. I don't believe what you've told me. I don't think you do either.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't.

[Steve Raybourn]

Israel, that picture, I've been told by Anchorage, was on the back of this note that contains the ATM card number that was in your back pocket at the time of the traffic stop. That picture was on the back of this note. Okay. There are other things in that car that need an explanation.

[Kevin Pullen]

What's the date on this paper?

[Steve Raybourn]

You know, I got it written down here somewhere.

[Kevin Pullen]

I just need to know that. Just curious. Do you know what the date is?

[Steve Raybourn]

I think it was during the two days that 14th that he disappeared from his girlfriend and his daughter.

[Kevin Pullen]

I think it was during shortly after the cruise.

[Steve Raybourn]

Those two days? Yeah. The ransom note was found on 24 February. Now, he flew back to Anchorage on the 17th of February, then the ransom note was found 24th. We got an old timeline, Israel.

[Kevin Pullen]

Sometimes things aren't what they appear. And things happen for different reasons than it appears they happen. But what I do know is that only one person or maybe a couple of persons actually know what happened. Remember when I told you I didn't have to come over here? I had my grandson with me. I just. Something didn't make sense.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, it sounds like you got it

[Kevin Pullen]

all figured out, so.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know why he hasn't talked to me.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm beginning to see more and more and I'm wanting to see if you want to help yourself by telling me what happened, help me by telling me what happened. How we can see these things. Are we seeing something wrong? Israel, you know I'm a police officer. I've been a police officer for almost 28 years. I don't travel with this much arsenal.

[Israel Keyes]

Neither do I.

[Kevin Pullen]

But on a plane, you're carrying a gun.

[Israel Keyes]

I wasn't on the plane carrying a gun.

[Kevin Pullen]

You weren't? No. How did the gun get here?

[Israel Keyes]

It was in my checked luggage. Okay, but I carried guns on.

[Kevin Pullen]

I know, but I don't carry it in my luggage. Israel.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, well, if you.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm not. Come on, help me understand that.

[Israel Keyes]

Look, I flew down here with those guns last time. They were supposed to stay here last time and I decided not to leave them with my mom because of.

[Kevin Pullen]

When's the last time you were in Cleveland? You know where Cleveland, Texas is?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. Where's that? That's outside of Dallas.

[Kevin Pullen]

You got any friends or family up there? No. You ever been there?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I just said.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

What do you go there for if you don't have friends or family? Why you up there?

[Israel Keyes]

I was. I. I'm not gonna get into that whole thing. That was on my last visit and that was so you.

[Kevin Pullen]

Did you bury an old dog that died or did you bury something?

[Israel Keyes]

You want to know the God honest truth? What I was doing?

[Kevin Pullen]

Yeah.

[Israel Keyes]

I really don't.

[Kevin Pullen]

I know what your family thinks you were doing there.

[Israel Keyes]

What do they think? You know, I'm not even gonna believe it.

[Kevin Pullen]

You.

[Israel Keyes]

What do you know what my family thinks?

[Josh]

You just.

[Israel Keyes]

You don't even. You just said you don't even know me.

[Kevin Pullen]

I haven't talked to him. I'm just going by this ranger tells me what the FBI tells me. Did you tell your family you went to. You had to go bury some guns? Yeah.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, I'm glad they told you.

[Kevin Pullen]

So did I make it up?

[Israel Keyes]

No.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm not gonna lie to you. So you went and buried guns in Cleveland?

[Israel Keyes]

No, I was.

[Kevin Pullen]

No, that was just an excuse to get out of the house.

[Israel Keyes]

No, I was actually going to, but there's. There. I didn't find any good spots.

[Kevin Pullen]

What guns?

[Israel Keyes]

Were you going to bury those?

[Steve Raybourn]

Why would you bury a gun?

[Israel Keyes]

It's a good way to store them, collect them back to get him.

[Kevin Pullen]

Give him a minute. Give him a minute. I think you can do better on that.

[Israel Keyes]

Sounds funny, but it's true.

[Kevin Pullen]

What denomination is. I think in Humboldt, Texas, at 2:23am on the 12th of this month, you attempted to use the ATM card in humble, Texas. It's just on the northwest northeast side of Houston.

[Steve Raybourn]

2:47am Is Shepard.

[Kevin Pullen]

2:47am in Shepherd, Texas. You successfully got $485.

[Steve Raybourn]

Humble was a day or two before.

[Kevin Pullen]

No, it was the same morning.

[Steve Raybourn]

Was it the Same morning.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. I don't. I would have to look at the paper.

[Kevin Pullen]

Okay, if I told you that, that that card was used and you said

[Israel Keyes]

you used the card.

[Kevin Pullen]

$485. What denomination am I?

[Steve Raybourn]

480.

[Kevin Pullen]

480. Because you see 500 is the limit on an ATM car and you said you probably used it a little, put it in too much the first time. So it probably came out in twenties.

[Israel Keyes]

Every ATM I've ever used. Yeah.

[Kevin Pullen]

What is that? What is that? Money that was in your car?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. I already told you I'm not going to talk about that.

[Kevin Pullen]

You know, not many banks use die packs anymore, so that'll be easy enough. Most corporate securities don't allow endangers the employees and customers if it went off too early.

[Steve Raybourn]

And rarely do I run across money that's moldy. Mold is growing on the money. There was mold. There's mold on this money. It's just weird. Would you agree it's weird to have moldy, stinky money? When they talk about dirty money, I don't think that's what they're talking about. But that was dirty money. And the rubber bands around the money. To tell you the truth, when I first saw it, I thought it was drug related because these little small rubber bands. But then I found the same kind of rubber bands. I guess it's your daughter's toiletry kit. She probably uses them in her hair. Am I right? So it's probably not drug money. It's just like the rubber bands in your daughter's toiletry kit that was in your car. That's good, right? It's not related to drugs.

[Israel Keyes]

I already said I'm not gonna talk about it.

[Steve Raybourn]

You don't have to, but those are just questions that are begging answers.

[Kevin Pullen]

Now in a police scanner and a

[Steve Raybourn]

drill with a drill bit. Not, not a screwdriver bit, but a drill bit. A quarter inch drill bit. Can you tell me?

[Kevin Pullen]

Let me get caught up here.

[Steve Raybourn]

Oh, go ahead.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm just looking. Where's the Ziploc baggie with the phone in it?

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, that's in the gun case.

[Kevin Pullen]

You got a picture? Yeah, right here, close up. The same kind of Ziploc baggie.

[Steve Raybourn]

I don't have it with me.

[Kevin Pullen]

But the same kind of Ziploc baggie.

[Steve Raybourn]

I think it's a smaller Ziploc bag here.

[Kevin Pullen]

Israel, I think you want to tell them. Are you the guy that's been walked out of here?

[Israel Keyes]

No, I'm. I'm enjoying you show me pictures of My own things. Very entertaining.

[Steve Raybourn]

Let me ask you this. You. You talked about the. We call it an SD card. Is that what you're talking about? The little chip that's in the phone? You talked about this SD card, and you made a comment that you put it into a DVD case that you had. Is it still there? Is that where you last saw it?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. Why would it not be there?

[Steve Raybourn]

I mean, well, unless somebody took it out, does anybody else have access?

[Israel Keyes]

The only people who've been messing with my stuff is you guys.

[Steve Raybourn]

All right, so I got a picture of the DVD case in there. Lp.

[Kevin Pullen]

Is this what was sent to you today?

[Steve Raybourn]

Yes. Let me get a picture of that DVD case. Everybody has secrets. Maybe that's why you were in Cleveland. I don't know. But is it that DVD case here?

[Israel Keyes]

Yep.

[Steve Raybourn]

What were the numbers on the back of this?

[Israel Keyes]

This? Oh, come on. You guys should have figured that out by now.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, I'm not the lead on it. Okay. What are the numbers? I mean, I could guess. What are the numbers? There were three numbers, and I photographed them. There were only three written in blue ink. And I photographed. I didn't bring all 250 photographs with me. I just printed out a few. Can you tell me what the numbers are?

[Israel Keyes]

That's not anything you need to worry about.

[Steve Raybourn]

All right?

[Israel Keyes]

It's embarrassing, but you don't need to worry about it.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, you know what?

[Israel Keyes]

Look.

[Kevin Pullen]

That.

[Israel Keyes]

That was.

[Kevin Pullen]

Oh, boy.

[Israel Keyes]

Those are phone numbers.

[Steve Raybourn]

For what?

[Israel Keyes]

Escorts. Really? Really?

[Steve Raybourn]

Like, heterosexual escorts?

[Israel Keyes]

Why would you ask me that?

[Steve Raybourn]

Because of that.

[Israel Keyes]

That came from everybody's skeletons called out. No, they were trans. They were transgender escorts in Shreveport. I found them online before I came down. I thought, you know, before I found out my mom just joined a cult, I was gonna leave my kid with her for a couple days and go have. Just blow up some stain. And that does not mean I was gonna do that. Never have.

[Steve Raybourn]

That is not against the law.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, actually, it is, but that. I'm just saying that doesn't. I'm not wanting to give you the impression this is something I do every

[Steve Raybourn]

time I get up. Being transgender is not against the law.

[Israel Keyes]

Hiring them is.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, depending on what state you're in.

[Israel Keyes]

Louisiana.

[Steve Raybourn]

We're not. We're not vice cops, though.

[Kevin Pullen]

I know.

[Steve Raybourn]

I'm just saying we investigate.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, what am I saying? I don't really give a shit what you guys think about me at this point, because that's pretty sure, pretty clear what, you already think.

[Podcast Host]

So, Yeah, I guess.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't care if you think that too. But whatever it is what it is.

[Kevin Pullen]

What would happen if you received. This?

[Israel Keyes]

I'm not going to look at that.

[Kevin Pullen]

And that was your daughter.

[Israel Keyes]

I'm not going to look at that again.

[Kevin Pullen]

What would you do? How would you feel? Would you want the Anchorage, Alaska police to contact the Texas Rangers to help them solve this case? Would you want them to do everything they could to get your daughter back?

[Steve Raybourn]

Even if she were already dead, they still want her back. And I know you can understand that it's very important.

[Israel Keyes]

And I already talked to you. Not just you, but I talked to the Anchorage.

[Steve Raybourn]

Well, I know. And Anchorage couldn't just live in Texas until you decided to talk. I'm not gonna live in Texas. I mean, they had to. They had to go back to Anchorage. And believe me, brother, they wanted to be here tonight to talk to you. But they're in Anchorage.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, if they want to talk to me, then I guess they need to get me back to Anchorage because I'm tired of Texas.

[Steve Raybourn]

I understand.

[Israel Keyes]

I'm not talking to you guys anymore. It's pretty clear, you know. No, I mean, you know, what you read in the pictures and reports and, I mean, you basically know what they feed you and what you found in my car and that's it. And I've given you information tonight. I did talk to you. I'm just not going to talk to you about anything in Anchorage because you're not in Anchorage. I shouldn't have even told you. I don't know.

[Kevin Pullen]

Whatever. Israel, you know that in Texas state law and United States law, you don't have to have a body to be charged. But I know this. I've been doing law enforcement work a long time, as I told you earlier, and if you didn't want to tell us, you'd have told us to pound sand up our butt a long time ago. I don't have any. I don't have any opinion on you based on this. You said that a moment ago. That's not what I'm here for. You do what you do because you believe you need to do it for whatever reason. I don't care. That's not my job to judge you. But the fact is a fact that I would have had sand driven out the back of my butt a long time ago if you didn't want to tell what you want to tell.

[Israel Keyes]

I did want to tell you something and I told you that.

[Kevin Pullen]

Well, that was a long time ago.

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was just a few minutes ago.

[Kevin Pullen]

What was that? I thought that you wanted to tell

[Israel Keyes]

us you wanted the whole timeline from the time I got to Vegas.

[Kevin Pullen]

That was over an hour ago.

[Israel Keyes]

And you've been doing all the talking

[Kevin Pullen]

since we've offered you the opportunity, and you've communicated back and forth.

[Israel Keyes]

Mostly I've just been saying, I don't want to talk about that. Like, the more pictures you pull out and the more things you tell me is like, I know. I know what's what. I. I mean, I think I know what you're trying to do, so.

[Kevin Pullen]

I'm not.

[Israel Keyes]

I'm not gonna talk about any of that stuff.

[Kevin Pullen]

Why not?

[Israel Keyes]

Because, first of all, you don't. You know, I'm not even. I'm not even gonna answer that because I'm already pissed about some other stuff. Do you want to talk anymore at all, or are you terminating the interview at this point? No, I think. I think we're done. I think I'm done talking.

[Kevin Pullen]

Well, I appreciate your time, Mr. Mcavoy, And I'm serious. I'm not casting judgment on you. And I think that at some point in time, he'll probably want to talk, and if he does, you know how to get a hold of us, and we'll. We'll make the trip over again. Well, he. The procedure is that he's not going

[Israel Keyes]

to be here for very much longer,

[Kevin Pullen]

so it probably won't be an issue

[Israel Keyes]

that y' all will have to deal with at that point. He will have appointed counsel up there, so it's going to be somebody else's deal at that point. But I'm still here. Need me for anything, Israel, Anything at all.

[Kevin Pullen]

You know how to get a hold

[Israel Keyes]

of me, and I'm willing to do

[Steve Raybourn]

whatever you need me to do.

[Israel Keyes]

All right. Well, I appreciate you being here tonight.

[Kevin Pullen]

Sure.

[Steve Raybourn]

If you change your mind, you're going to have to contact your attorney. Okay. And ask for us. And if, If. If there's something you want to say, just make sure you conclude concerning this individual, and you only will say it to Anchorage. Then we'll. We'll do our best to make arrangements. That's all we can do. Okay. It's. What time you got? 12.38am on 3. 18, 2012. Mr. Keesley, interview.