True Crime Bullsh**

Episode Date: January 26, 2026
Episode Title: July 10, 2012
Host: Studio BOTH/AND (Josh Hallmark)

Episode Overview

This episode presents a rare, extended look inside the FBI interrogation of notorious serial killer Israel Keyes on July 10, 2012. The conversation between Keyes and law enforcement is unflinching and disturbing, offering unique insight into his criminal methodology, psychological motivations, negotiation tactics, and chilling confessions to sexual assault and murder. The episode is not for the faint of heart, as Keyes discusses the evolution of his crimes, his manipulative approach to bargaining, and the ways he evaded detection for years. This summary encapsulates the key themes, notable moments, and significant revelations from this harrowing interview.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Interrogation Setting and Player Roles

• Participants:
  • Israel Keyes (subject)
  • Detective Jeff Bell (APD)
  • AUSA Kevin Feldes (U.S. Attorney's Office)
  • Agent Jolene Go (FBI)
• Miranda Rights & Legal Preliminaries (02:11-04:45):
  • Keyes is read his rights, repeatedly asked if he desires counsel, and he declines lawyer presence for discussions of "other crimes."
  • Legal boundaries: They stress that Koenig case discussions require another context.

2. State of Case Negotiations and Keyes’ Leverage

• Stalemated Bargaining (05:56-16:15):
  • Law enforcement is frustrated by slow progress; Keyes insists leverage lies in information only he possesses.
  • Keyes: "The only thing I have at this point is information. Once I give up that information, I don't have it anymore." (16:15)
  • Ongoing disagreement: Keyes refuses to provide names/locations unless he’s assured concrete guarantees—a recurring theme.
• Scope of Unsolved Crimes (19:42-22:06):
  • Keyes implies the crimes he’s confessed to are only a fraction.
  • "You’ve given us one tenth of all the things you could tell us about. Am I right about that?" – Bell
  • "For the most part it’s just… yeah. Been within the last year." – Keyes (20:02)
  • He alludes to “less than a dozen” serious incidents, mostly in the recent past, but crimes stretch back 14 years.

3. Early Criminal Evolution

• First Sexual Assault & Attempted Murder (23:00-33:00):

  • Keyes details an assault on a teen girl along the Deschutes River, Oregon, when he was 18 or 19.
  • He admits he planned to kill (“I was going to strangle her.” 33:41), but ultimately lost his nerve, crediting the victim’s calm, “personalizing” responses.
  • “She just kept talking… made it seem like it wasn’t a big deal and like she was okay with it… she was pretty smart, because it worked.” (34:12)
  • Admits to sexually assaulting her, tying her up in a remote restroom, and letting her go when he lost his resolve.

• Psychological Reflection on Letting a Victim Live (36:24-37:35):

  • For years after, Keyes berated himself for letting her go:
    • “For years after that, for like two years after that, I kept telling myself I should have killed her and like really beat myself up about that—that I got—I chickened out and kind of felt like I screwed up.” (36:24)
  • Declares: “I just made up my mind that that was never gonna happen again.” (44:19)

4. Transition from Assaults to Homicide

• Deliberate Progression to Murder (41:19-44:16):

  • Keyes articulates how changing locations, circumstances, and learning from early “mistakes” increased his confidence and tactical planning.
  • Emphasized need for anonymity and distance from victims in later crimes.

• Refinement of Victim Selection and MO (98:32-101:09):

  • “Back when I was smart, I would… let them come to me. Just remote area, you know.” (98:48)
  • Prefers “lightweight” victims for practical reasons, but is flexible.

5. Murder Staging and Concealment

• Making Murders Appear Accidental (102:39-110:05):
  • Keyes explains how some victims' deaths were staged as accidents (e.g., boating or hiking mishaps) to avoid detection.
  • “Someone might say, oh, it looks like a boating accident, but you knew…” (103:08)
  • “That was my concern—that the body would be found before it had decomposed enough… if it had been found right away, it probably wouldn’t have been thought to be an accident anymore.” (108:36)
  • He expresses satisfaction in knowing reality diverged sharply from public narrative.

6. Motivations and Self-Identity

• Shifting Philosophies: Satanism, Atheism, Nihilism (71:40-79:32):

  • Keyes describes his youthful involvement in Satanism, then atheism, asserting he projected “Satanic” motivation as rationalization rather than real belief.
  • “Once I kind of came to terms with that, there wasn’t a higher power, if you will, that I was going to do, do it for. It was just something I wanted to do that made it a lot easier.” (75:04)
  • “Once you become an atheist, you can’t really be a Satanist.” (77:27)

• Brandings as Expression/Mask (89:19-94:36):

  • Explains self-inflicted brandings (pentagram, upside-down cross): “I considered myself an atheist for a long time, but... I mean, I still have issues with it.” (94:22)
  • The marks started as "Satanic," but persisted after his beliefs shifted.

7. Operational Caution and Law Enforcement Evasion

• Cautious Methods (97:02-100:34):

  • Keyes never questioned about crimes until his arrest; he excelled at avoiding connections and overwhelming police with a lack of physical evidence/witnesses.
  • “If the person's not connected to me, then I probably won’t ever even be questioned about it or whatever.” (97:35)

• Manipulative Bargaining (123:11-125:16):

  • Keyes withholds critical case information, warns he’s not interested in “spread[ing] it out” over months: “I’m not looking to spread it out. I’m looking to get what I want out of it. And once you know, I get what I want, then I don’t really care.” (125:16)

• Distrust of Law Enforcement Control (126:24-128:03):

  • Voices concern about losing negotiation leverage once he provides case details—fears state/local authorities might “want a piece of me.”

8. Final Exchanges and Reluctant Collaboration

• Withholding Specifics, Setting Terms (147:44-153:50):
  • Keyes refuses to provide new specifics at the day's end but reaffirms willingness to talk under the right conditions.
  • “If I had it my way, I would keep all my little stories to myself… I already know that nothing’s going to happen the way I want it to if I do that.” (151:56)
  • Stresses importance of keeping details confidential: “That’s kind of the premise I’m working on, is… I’ll give you all the details… I don’t want it to become public.” (153:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (by Timestamp)

• Keyes on his only leverage:

  • “The only thing I have at this point is information. Once I give up that information, I don’t have it anymore.” (16:15)

• On his first near-homicide:

  • “[The victim] was pretty smart because it worked. I didn’t… Kind of put me more at ease.” (34:12)

• On what changed after he didn’t kill his first intended victim:

  • "For years after that... I kept telling myself I should have killed her, and... I chickened out and kind of felt like I screwed up." (36:24)
  • "I just made up my mind that that was never gonna happen again." (44:19)

• Keyes rebuffing law enforcement’s attempts to move fast:

  • “No, but it only moves forward from your perspective. It doesn’t move forward from mine.” (14:21)

• On avoiding detection:

  • "If the person's not connected to me, then I probably won't ever even be questioned about it or whatever." (97:35)

• Explaining staged murders:

  • "Someone might say, oh, it looks like a boating accident, but you knew... Boating accident, hiker disappears, fire, fires." (103:08)

• On transitioning from Satanism to atheism as a rationale:

  • “Once you become an atheist, you can’t really be a Satanist.” (77:27)
  • “There wasn’t a higher power, if you will, that I was going to do it for. It was just something I wanted to do…” (75:04)

• On why he'd keep talking:

  • "That's another reason I'm willing to keep talking. Because I expect you, anyone investigating these cases, to keep the details and interviews... confidential and certainly out of the media." (153:19)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Legal Preliminaries and Context-Setting: 02:11–04:45
• Stalled Negotiation / Frustrations: 05:56–16:15
• Confession of Early Assaults: 23:00–33:00
• Victim’s Influence on Keyes’ Hesitation: 34:12–37:35
• Victim Selection & Concealment Tactics: 98:48–102:07
• Murder-as-Accident Staging: 102:39–110:05
• Belief System Transition: 71:40–79:32
• Brandings & Self-Perception: 89:19–94:36
• Bartering for Control: Throughout, especially 123:11–128:36
• Ending: Setting Up Future Collaboration: 150:21–153:50

Tone & Language

The dialogue is a disturbing blend of chilling calm, casual rationalization, calculated maneuvering, and grim self-reflection. Law enforcement strives to remain professional, occasionally frustrated but persistent. Keyes oscillates between glib, reflective, and deflective, often betraying a sense of superiority. The language is clinical at times, at others marked by Keyes’s unsettling candor.

Warning: The episode contains graphic descriptions of sexual violence, murder, and manipulation. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

Summary

This episode provides a raw, often deeply uncomfortable window into Israel Keyes’s criminal evolution, his psychological manipulations of law enforcement, and his insistence on retaining leverage through secrecy. It highlights the complexity and challenges investigators face in working with calculating serial offenders who prize control above cooperation. The interview is a masterclass in the psychology of coercion and the dark underpinnings of predatory violence—offered in Keyes’s own words, with chilling specificity.

Compiled and summarized to preserve the original tone and salient content of the episode for those who have not listened. All timestamps and quotes are accurate to the transcript.