July 10, 2012

Summary

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True Crime Bullsh**

Episode Date: January 26, 2026
Episode Title: July 10, 2012
Host: Studio BOTH/AND (Josh Hallmark)

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Episode Overview

This episode presents a rare, extended look inside the FBI interrogation of notorious serial killer Israel Keyes on July 10, 2012. The conversation between Keyes and law enforcement is unflinching and disturbing, offering unique insight into his criminal methodology, psychological motivations, negotiation tactics, and chilling confessions to sexual assault and murder. The episode is not for the faint of heart, as Keyes discusses the evolution of his crimes, his manipulative approach to bargaining, and the ways he evaded detection for years. This summary encapsulates the key themes, notable moments, and significant revelations from this harrowing interview.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Interrogation Setting and Player Roles

• Participants:
  • Israel Keyes (subject)
  • Detective Jeff Bell (APD)
  • AUSA Kevin Feldes (U.S. Attorney's Office)
  • Agent Jolene Go (FBI)
• Miranda Rights & Legal Preliminaries (02:11-04:45):
  • Keyes is read his rights, repeatedly asked if he desires counsel, and he declines lawyer presence for discussions of "other crimes."
  • Legal boundaries: They stress that Koenig case discussions require another context.

2. State of Case Negotiations and Keyes’ Leverage

• Stalemated Bargaining (05:56-16:15):
  • Law enforcement is frustrated by slow progress; Keyes insists leverage lies in information only he possesses.
  • Keyes: "The only thing I have at this point is information. Once I give up that information, I don't have it anymore." (16:15)
  • Ongoing disagreement: Keyes refuses to provide names/locations unless he’s assured concrete guarantees—a recurring theme.
• Scope of Unsolved Crimes (19:42-22:06):
  • Keyes implies the crimes he’s confessed to are only a fraction.
  • "You’ve given us one tenth of all the things you could tell us about. Am I right about that?" – Bell
  • "For the most part it’s just… yeah. Been within the last year." – Keyes (20:02)
  • He alludes to “less than a dozen” serious incidents, mostly in the recent past, but crimes stretch back 14 years.

3. Early Criminal Evolution

• First Sexual Assault & Attempted Murder (23:00-33:00):

  • Keyes details an assault on a teen girl along the Deschutes River, Oregon, when he was 18 or 19.
  • He admits he planned to kill (“I was going to strangle her.” 33:41), but ultimately lost his nerve, crediting the victim’s calm, “personalizing” responses.
  • “She just kept talking… made it seem like it wasn’t a big deal and like she was okay with it… she was pretty smart, because it worked.” (34:12)
  • Admits to sexually assaulting her, tying her up in a remote restroom, and letting her go when he lost his resolve.

• Psychological Reflection on Letting a Victim Live (36:24-37:35):

  • For years after, Keyes berated himself for letting her go:
    • “For years after that, for like two years after that, I kept telling myself I should have killed her and like really beat myself up about that—that I got—I chickened out and kind of felt like I screwed up.” (36:24)
  • Declares: “I just made up my mind that that was never gonna happen again.” (44:19)

4. Transition from Assaults to Homicide

• Deliberate Progression to Murder (41:19-44:16):

  • Keyes articulates how changing locations, circumstances, and learning from early “mistakes” increased his confidence and tactical planning.
  • Emphasized need for anonymity and distance from victims in later crimes.

• Refinement of Victim Selection and MO (98:32-101:09):

  • “Back when I was smart, I would… let them come to me. Just remote area, you know.” (98:48)
  • Prefers “lightweight” victims for practical reasons, but is flexible.

5. Murder Staging and Concealment

• Making Murders Appear Accidental (102:39-110:05):
  • Keyes explains how some victims' deaths were staged as accidents (e.g., boating or hiking mishaps) to avoid detection.
  • “Someone might say, oh, it looks like a boating accident, but you knew…” (103:08)
  • “That was my concern—that the body would be found before it had decomposed enough… if it had been found right away, it probably wouldn’t have been thought to be an accident anymore.” (108:36)
  • He expresses satisfaction in knowing reality diverged sharply from public narrative.

6. Motivations and Self-Identity

• Shifting Philosophies: Satanism, Atheism, Nihilism (71:40-79:32):

  • Keyes describes his youthful involvement in Satanism, then atheism, asserting he projected “Satanic” motivation as rationalization rather than real belief.
  • “Once I kind of came to terms with that, there wasn’t a higher power, if you will, that I was going to do, do it for. It was just something I wanted to do that made it a lot easier.” (75:04)
  • “Once you become an atheist, you can’t really be a Satanist.” (77:27)

• Brandings as Expression/Mask (89:19-94:36):

  • Explains self-inflicted brandings (pentagram, upside-down cross): “I considered myself an atheist for a long time, but... I mean, I still have issues with it.” (94:22)
  • The marks started as "Satanic," but persisted after his beliefs shifted.

7. Operational Caution and Law Enforcement Evasion

• Cautious Methods (97:02-100:34):

  • Keyes never questioned about crimes until his arrest; he excelled at avoiding connections and overwhelming police with a lack of physical evidence/witnesses.
  • “If the person's not connected to me, then I probably won’t ever even be questioned about it or whatever.” (97:35)

• Manipulative Bargaining (123:11-125:16):

  • Keyes withholds critical case information, warns he’s not interested in “spread[ing] it out” over months: “I’m not looking to spread it out. I’m looking to get what I want out of it. And once you know, I get what I want, then I don’t really care.” (125:16)

• Distrust of Law Enforcement Control (126:24-128:03):

  • Voices concern about losing negotiation leverage once he provides case details—fears state/local authorities might “want a piece of me.”

8. Final Exchanges and Reluctant Collaboration

• Withholding Specifics, Setting Terms (147:44-153:50):
  • Keyes refuses to provide new specifics at the day's end but reaffirms willingness to talk under the right conditions.
  • “If I had it my way, I would keep all my little stories to myself… I already know that nothing’s going to happen the way I want it to if I do that.” (151:56)
  • Stresses importance of keeping details confidential: “That’s kind of the premise I’m working on, is… I’ll give you all the details… I don’t want it to become public.” (153:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (by Timestamp)

• Keyes on his only leverage:

  • “The only thing I have at this point is information. Once I give up that information, I don’t have it anymore.” (16:15)

• On his first near-homicide:

  • “[The victim] was pretty smart because it worked. I didn’t… Kind of put me more at ease.” (34:12)

• On what changed after he didn’t kill his first intended victim:

  • "For years after that... I kept telling myself I should have killed her, and... I chickened out and kind of felt like I screwed up." (36:24)
  • "I just made up my mind that that was never gonna happen again." (44:19)

• Keyes rebuffing law enforcement’s attempts to move fast:

  • “No, but it only moves forward from your perspective. It doesn’t move forward from mine.” (14:21)

• On avoiding detection:

  • "If the person's not connected to me, then I probably won't ever even be questioned about it or whatever." (97:35)

• Explaining staged murders:

  • "Someone might say, oh, it looks like a boating accident, but you knew... Boating accident, hiker disappears, fire, fires." (103:08)

• On transitioning from Satanism to atheism as a rationale:

  • “Once you become an atheist, you can’t really be a Satanist.” (77:27)
  • “There wasn’t a higher power, if you will, that I was going to do it for. It was just something I wanted to do…” (75:04)

• On why he'd keep talking:

  • "That's another reason I'm willing to keep talking. Because I expect you, anyone investigating these cases, to keep the details and interviews... confidential and certainly out of the media." (153:19)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Legal Preliminaries and Context-Setting: 02:11–04:45
• Stalled Negotiation / Frustrations: 05:56–16:15
• Confession of Early Assaults: 23:00–33:00
• Victim’s Influence on Keyes’ Hesitation: 34:12–37:35
• Victim Selection & Concealment Tactics: 98:48–102:07
• Murder-as-Accident Staging: 102:39–110:05
• Belief System Transition: 71:40–79:32
• Brandings & Self-Perception: 89:19–94:36
• Bartering for Control: Throughout, especially 123:11–128:36
• Ending: Setting Up Future Collaboration: 150:21–153:50

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Tone & Language

The dialogue is a disturbing blend of chilling calm, casual rationalization, calculated maneuvering, and grim self-reflection. Law enforcement strives to remain professional, occasionally frustrated but persistent. Keyes oscillates between glib, reflective, and deflective, often betraying a sense of superiority. The language is clinical at times, at others marked by Keyes’s unsettling candor.

Warning: The episode contains graphic descriptions of sexual violence, murder, and manipulation. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Summary

This episode provides a raw, often deeply uncomfortable window into Israel Keyes’s criminal evolution, his psychological manipulations of law enforcement, and his insistence on retaining leverage through secrecy. It highlights the complexity and challenges investigators face in working with calculating serial offenders who prize control above cooperation. The interview is a masterclass in the psychology of coercion and the dark underpinnings of predatory violence—offered in Keyes’s own words, with chilling specificity.

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Compiled and summarized to preserve the original tone and salient content of the episode for those who have not listened. All timestamps and quotes are accurate to the transcript.

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Israel Keys]

There's nothing like my American Express Platinum Card. I love that I can earn hotel.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Credits when I travel.

[Israel Keys]

I can also earn resi credits so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You know I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about.

[Israel Keys]

Plus with the digital entertainment credit, I'm even more excited to catch my favorite shows. All in all, I can access over $3,500 in annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel, entertainment and more. Learn [e-mail] Explore Platinum enrollment requirements, monthly and other limits and terms apply. With the American Express Platinum card, I can unlock experiences like no other since I'm always booking my next trip. I love that I can earn points.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

On travel plus I get a resi benefit.

[Israel Keys]

So you know I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about. And you can find out your welcome offer after you apply, which could be as high as 175,000 points for experiences like no other.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

There's nothing like Platinum.

[Israel Keys]

Learn [e-mail] Explore Platinum Terms apply. This is a studio Both and Production.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

SA Jolene Go and the date is July 10, 2012. Time is 10:10am this will be an interview with Israel Keys, case number 306AAN 15642. Present for the interview will be myself, Detective Jeff Bell and AUSA Kevin Feldes.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Opting against the coffee, I'll start like we always do. I'll read you your rights and then we'll go from there.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

All right? All right.

[Agent Jolene Go]

First of all, when we came over to pick you up this morning, don't have a meeting with your lawyers or anything like that. You have the right to remain silent. You understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yep.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand that?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yep.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him present with you while you're being questioned. You understand that?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yes.

[Agent Jolene Go]

If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent you before and during any questioning, if you wish. Do you understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yep.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You can decide any time to exercise these rights and not answer any questions or make any statements. You understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yep.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You understand each of the rights I explained to you?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yes. Okay.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And then we also have to let you know that we're here to talk about other.

[Israel Keys]

Other crimes.

[Agent Jolene Go]

We're not here to talk about anything with Samantha Koenig. If you do that, we're going to stop talking. Do you understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yes.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

All right. All right, Israel. Let me just finish that kind of introductory stuff. You know, Jolene's with the FBI and Jeff with APD, and I'm obviously with the U.S. attorn office. You understand that? Yep. You have. Rich Kirtner has been appointed standby council to represent you. If you would like his help when we discuss any other crimes. Yeah. If you would like him here today, please tell us that. Okay.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't know if we can get him on short notice.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, you know that it's important and the court is made it clear that if you would like him here today, we will get him here. Okay?

[Israel Keys]

No, no.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, I want you just to be clear with me. Would you like Rich here?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. It's complicated, but. Yeah, no, that's. No, that's fine.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. Sorry to be go over again. Would you like Rich Kirtner here for these discussions of other crimes or not?

[Israel Keys]

No, not for the other crimes.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

If you would like him or if you would like Jackie or any other attorn, will you let me know?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. Would you like anyone here to help you?

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm fine.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Obviously, at any time during our conversation today, you'd like an attorney present. You have the right just to tell us, and we'll stop asking you any questions. Okay.

[Israel Keys]

Yep.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And that goes for anything. You obviously have the right not to tell us or talk to us at any time.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So we wanted to catch up with you from. At least from my perspective. Where we left. Where I thought we left off. And this was. You know, I got my calendar here of the different times that we've met with you, just so I kind of keep track. And the Last time was June 7, more than a month ago.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And so I don't know. How's it been going for the last 33 years?

[Israel Keys]

Slow. I don't think I need to say any word that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, you got something that we agree on?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Apparently I have to show up in court just to find out anything that's going on, so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. Well, you Know, if there are things that you want to talk about that relate to. To the Koenig case, then.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, there are. That's why.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Let me finish my sentence then. I think, you know, we all know in this room, and the judge has been clear. We need to do that in the presence of your attorneys.

[Israel Keys]

All right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And if you. We can talk about this later today before we end, if you want to request a meeting. I will make that request known or not. Depends on what you would like. But I remember last time you said you wanted to all meet, and all we did was simply convey that request to your attorneys, but obviously, that's up to you. I don't want to know what you and your attorneys are discussing regarding Samantha Coney. Okay. All right. So let's hold on to that thought.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

All right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But let's pick up with your thought of slow.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Sort of molasses comes to mind.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

By the way, you want a bagel?

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm talking about.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Sure. Yeah. Well, we just got these bagels because I don't like to eat, you know, without somebody else.

[Israel Keys]

Gotta watch my figures. Oh, yeah. Come on.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

They probably don't serve you these in jail.

[Israel Keys]

So, no news from Vermont, I take it? I've been asking, but I haven't been getting very many answers, so.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Okay.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So you want to know about the couriers?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Still doing the search.

[Israel Keys]

Really?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

They.

[Israel Keys]

They should have expanded to the outskirts of the landfill by now, I think.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Well, it's a pretty slow process. A lot slower than I. Than I thought it would be initially, too, Kind of on how they do it, but it's gonna. They're still going, and they still have the area of interest that they're looking at that they have not gotten all the way through yet, really.

[Agent Jolene Go]

It's just a slow, tedious process. And kind of what's happening, too, since the beginning. Lots of people out there, the people that have been able to show up due to trainings and vacations and things like that, has reduced numbers. So the sheer numbers of the people out there working is less than it was in the beginning. So it's a little bit slower than it was in the beginning, but they're.

[Israel Keys]

When are they going to call it off? Or are they.

[Agent Jolene Go]

I don't see that happening in the near future.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Yeah, not in the near future, because.

[Israel Keys]

It'S been, what, two months, three months that they've been working on it?

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Two months, I think.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Six months. Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

But, yeah, I don't see. They're not going to be calling it off anytime soon that I've heard. At least I think it's gonna be going for a little while.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

As long as they reasonably think they can get there based on stuff that they're finding with dates on it and they're relatively sure they're. It's just a. It's just a deep pile.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

All right.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So still happening.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

We're being honest with you. I mean, I'd love to come in here and tell you that they've been found and it's over, but the fact is, it's a tedious process. And it's not like, I mean, they're digging through with pitchforks on tarps.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

They're still within, I think we told you before about the date range of stuff. I think Steve mentioned that before they were finding stuff within the right date range. So they're still finding that stuff, which is why I think they're continuing because they're within the right time frame. So if they weren't, then I think there might be other discussions happening, but. So still hopeful.

[Israel Keys]

Just need to know if I need to change my story anytime soon. No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

All right. I think we've all talked about before that, you know, you are where you are and we are where we are. So you gotta admit, though, that's pretty. I'm sure it's not funny to most people, but what's.

[Agent Jolene Go]

What's the chances of what happened?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Happened?

[Agent Jolene Go]

A lot of people would call it unfortunate.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No, you know, well, look, as we said before, whether they find those bodies or not, you know, they're still missing.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

The crime has been corroborated, you know, every which way. So we know it's of interest to you. Obviously, it's of interest to the families, of real interest to them. And frankly, that's why they're still looking, is, you know, look, they understand that the families want to find the couriers, but in terms of a legal case, prosecution, it doesn't make a difference at this point. Right. Whether or not.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And that just goes to show you how determined we are and the FBI is and trying to bring closure to as many families as we can.

[Israel Keys]

Start with the couriers. Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But look, we left off, you know, June 7th, and we had talked about. I brought my simple plan. I wrote on June 7, Remember, Plan A and plan B. And we thought we were all going on plan A, which was to move this thing along in terms of bringing closure, which was our goal. But your goals of resolving all other cases in a speedy way. And you had told us at that Time you understood that you wanted things to move quickly, you wanted to keep the media down, all these things, but you needed another week. Let's talk next week. I think we ended up being a couple weeks. And I know Jeff has been over there and you told him, well, I need a few more days, another week. And now more than a month has gone by and nothing has happened. And it's not because of us. So we're looking to you today to determine whether we're going to move forward a little more quickly or whether it's going to continue to stagnate in terms of the plans we've kind of laid out. Well.

[Israel Keys]

I kind of disagree, I think, because I know that we can only talk about certain things when we're in this room. But to me, it is all connected. And so some of it is because of you, just not related to the things we've talked about in this room.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. Like I said, it makes it hard to respond because I know we have this restrictions and for good reason.

[Israel Keys]

Right, exactly. And that's the problem.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, I told you before we leave today, we'll make it clear if you tell us, look, I want to have a meeting because there's. Then I'll follow through on that. But let me just address it in terms of the other crimes. And I'm going to use New York because it's just a concrete example.

[Israel Keys]

Right, right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

We know there's something in New York that we've asked you for, information. And the New York thing, again, as an example, because it's another crime we're aware of, you could help us move that forward and move the whole matter forward without giving up, with very little downside to you. We're looking for a name so that we can do the things that law enforcement has to do. And we told you it wasn't going to be, you know, we weren't going to run out and connect it to you. I think I told you, if you give us a name today, this is back a month ago, you know, we'll meet in a week. And you're not going to see your name connected to that. Right. We're just going to do what law enforcement has to do, and that's going to move us forward quickly with speed.

[Israel Keys]

It's going to move us forward on that case, but it doesn't move my agenda forward because I'm not getting anything concrete for it. Once I give you that name or a location, then that's it. It's your information.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, but you want the whole thing to proceed Quickly. You told us you want the death. So everything is all. If there are 10 pieces to this puzzle, all 10 of them have to move forward. There's one that you're telling me we can't move forward on, but there's nine others on the telling you that we can move forward on. Right. I'm not really trying to challenge you. I'm just trying to explain you again the way we have to work this.

[Israel Keys]

No, but it only moves forward from your perspective. It doesn't move forward from mine.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No, it is yours too, because they all go together. They all stick together.

[Israel Keys]

They all go together. If I say they go together. If I get what I want, then they all go together.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But I just. I guess what I'm saying is New York, Vermont, they're not going to go along with what you want until they get what they want, which is resolution for those other cases. So we could be moving forward towards resolution of all these other cases.

[Israel Keys]

And then they're going to bounce me around from state to state. I've seen this happen.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You may end up there because of the non action. That's where it may end up. But if we take action together, that's what we've been telling you all along. So I wanted to see where you were on those things. Given that I'm all for moving things.

[Israel Keys]

Forward only if I have something concrete that I get out of it. You know, us discussing it in this room and saying if you do this, we might be able to do this. That's not concrete and it's not within your control.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

But there was some stuff based on Frank's. When Frank was in here and talked about his plan, some things that we could do to make it more concrete, to make it more definitive about who was going to handle the case or how it was going to be handled.

[Israel Keys]

Right, but according to everything that I've researched since then, there's. There's nothing concrete about that either. I mean, all you can give me is maybes. You can't give me for sures on what's going to happen with the information that I give you. I mean, we can't even say for sure that it's going to stay federal if I give information on other cases at this point.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Look who's been straight with you and who's lived up to you.

[Israel Keys]

You have no. Believe me at this point. I appreciate that a lot. But that doesn't change the fact that like I was saying before, I only have. The only thing I have at this point is information. Once I give up that information, I don't have it anymore. It's a new year, which means colder days like below zero. If you're where I am and this is the moment your winter wardrobe really needs to deliver. If you're craving a winter reset, start with pieces truly made to last season after season. And quince brings together premium materials, thoughtful design and enduring quality so you stay warm, look sharp and feel your best all season long. Quince has everything you men's Mongolian cashmere sweaters, wool coats, leather and suede outerwear that actually hold up to daily wear and still look good. Their outerwear is especially impressive. Think like down jackets, wool coats and Italian leather outerwear that keep you warm when it's actually cold. Quince's classic styles that will hold up here year after year. And if you know me, you know that the way I look is pretty important to me. I'm very into fashion and I love quints and go back time and time again. I think I already told you about the Mongolian cashmere hoodie that I was eyeing. Well, it's super comfortable, it looks good and I basically wear it every night now when I get home and comfy. I even got my friend Steph some Quint's basics for the holiday and she too has been wearing them an awful lot around town. That's how great Quince is. Refresh your winter wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.com tcbs for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Quince Q U I N C E.com tcbs free shipping and 365 day returns.

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[Detective Jeff Bell]

You, I think the other day you said, well, you have a whole bunch of information, right? I mean my impression is that you have, that you've given us the stuff you've talked about with us is one tenth of all the things you could tell us about. Well, am I right about that?

[Israel Keys]

For the most part it's just. Yeah. Been within the last year. Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So one. And is that one. Put a figure on it for me. A percentage, Give me a percentage. So I just have an idea. So we talk.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. That depends on what you're counting.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But throw out a percentage. You're a smart guy.

[Israel Keys]

I already told you less than a dozen. That's a pretty good percentage.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So one, you told us about a tenth of the things that, you know.

[Israel Keys]

Look, I, in the last year, a little over a year now, I did a lot of stuff and I think I already mentioned I was kind of losing control. But you know, it goes back a long time. So, so yeah, there was a lot of stuff in the last 12, 13 months, but it goes back 14 years, you said. Well, yeah, well, yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well that's actually good because you had told us one time when you were talking, you had said, you know, for 14 years was the number of new years that you, that there was these other things. I mean, maybe if you, we could just sit here and chat about some of that for what happened 14 years ago.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You don't even have to be significant about it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Is there something significant to you 14 years, or is that about the time.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You went in the military? Isn't it?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, significant. But I mean, again, I can't. You know, it started out with smaller stuff. It wasn't like I went out and started taking people right away.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Did the military change it?

[Israel Keys]

I didn't, I didn't do anything really drastic until I was out of the military? But, I mean, no, I was. There was some stuff that happened even before I went in the military then.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So the military started it out.

[Israel Keys]

I would have been better off if I'd stayed in the military, probably.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, I think you said you wanted to stay, but you would.

[Israel Keys]

And then after that, it just took me a few years to get up the nerve to actually do it, I guess.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And those things, talking about get away with it, you're talking about, like, breaking into houses or. Because I know you talked about that once when you. Picking some guns and that kind of thing.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, yeah, when I was a kid.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So what kind of things were you talking about right before you went in the military that you could get away with?

[Israel Keys]

No, there was. When I was living in Oregon, I was working on this house for my dad.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keys]

There was this river that was near the house. There was. A lot of people would go down there. A pretty remote area, but there were beaches and stuff along the river where people would go and hang out for the day and stuff. And that's. I don't know. That's what gave me the idea, I guess there. You know, there would be people hanging on the beaches, you know, like younger girls in their swimsuits and stuff. I think I was only maybe 18 at the time.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So. Did you get away with something there?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Never even got reported. I mean, I didn't. Like I said I didn't have the nerve to, you know, take it to the next level, but. But in my mind, that's what I was gonna do.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Is that a pretty remote area that you were in?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it's called the Deschutes River. It goes into Columbia. It's like just a little town out in the middle of nowhere. But in the summertime, there are a lot of people who would go up there from Portland and stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, I've been to that area. What's the name of the towns there?

[Israel Keys]

Well, the town that the house I was working on was in was Maupin. It's just downriver from Bend, I think. Yeah, Bend, Oregon.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And what did you do then? You said you thought about taking it to the next level, but you obviously did some level.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Something got away with it.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Oh, there were these, like, remote restrooms in these just random little beach areas along the river.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keys]

I took somebody to one of those, but I didn't, you know, kill her.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What'd you do to her?

[Israel Keys]

It was just. It was one of those bathrooms where the door you could lock from the inside. Just like, single. Single restroom. And it was kind of late.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So.

[Israel Keys]

I knew nobody would be along, But I don't. I was pretty dumb at it. I lost my nerve. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't kill her. Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

She was.

[Israel Keys]

She was pretty scared. She was about my age, so I don't know, I guess I just decided not to. I don't know, not.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Not to kill her?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Sexually assault?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. I mean, I scared her pretty bad. I mean, I don't know, I guess maybe that's why she never. I never read anything about it.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Do you have a weapon?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I was. I was mostly in the knives at the time, but.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

How'd you get her to the bathroom? I guess I'm assuming you didn't know her.

[Israel Keys]

No, I didn't know her. She was. She was out on the river. You know, it's like a river you can float down. Like people do it on inner tubes and stuff. And I was just.

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Israel Keys]

Hanging out at this more remote spot. She was like the last one in her group.

[Julian Edelman]

I just.

[Israel Keys]

Grabbed her and pulled her into the shore.

[Agent Jolene Go]

She white? Black?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

She was white.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know how old she was, but she could have been anywhere from, I don't know, 14 to 18.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Did you have, like, conversation with her and stuff? Did you know her name or anything like that?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Blonde Burnett.

[Israel Keys]

She was, like, dirty blonde.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

And that didn't get reported?

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. I never read anything. I was pretty freaked out afterwards. I was sure that I was gonna get in trouble or.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know.

[Israel Keys]

I'm just paranoid.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

You didn't hear about it getting reported or anything?

[Israel Keys]

No, I. I remember, like a week after that. I kept going and checking, like, all the newspapers and stuff. I didn't have. I wasn't into computers or anything at the time, so. But I never. I never read anything about it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You're 18?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, 18 or 19. I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Was that the first time you sexually assaulted somebody?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. I don't know. Depends what your definition is.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Is that the first time you had sex with somebody against their will?

[Israel Keys]

No, but, I mean, that was the first time I took it to that level. Like, had someone tied up, you know, like was ready to actually do that. Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What'd that feel like?

[Israel Keys]

I mean, I had it all planned out. It was, You know, that was my intention.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Goes to a killer.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. It was a small bathroom. It didn't get used very much. They probably only cleaned it out maybe once a year or something.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So permanent type bathroom or rent a.

[Israel Keys]

Can type bathroom, like a permanent, like the ones you see at Forest Service Campground with a big concrete tank under them.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So you say they only clean it once a year. What was that when you knew that going into it?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I knew about them. I knew how they worked.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What were your thoughts?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I was. That's why I picked it. I was gonna. After I killed whoever, I was gonna. I was waiting for someone who was pretty small because I was gonna dump them down in the tank. It was a really dark tank. They probably wouldn't have been found for. For a year or something.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you visit that bathroom beforehand or you checked it out?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, yeah. I knew that whole river. We used to go down there.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So what do you think stopped you from taking it to that level?

[Israel Keys]

She. She was just really scared and kept saying she wasn't going to tell anybody and It. Yeah, I don't know. I. I almost did. I just.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Had you thought about how you were going to do it if you did it?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I was. I was going to strangle her.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Do you remember anything that she said to you that. That stuck in your mind?

[Israel Keys]

She just. I mean, I knew what she was doing. She was trying to make it seem like it wasn't a big deal and like she was okay with it and. I mean, she was pretty smart. She was. I mean, because it worked. I didn't. Kind of put me more at ease.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keys]

Things never got really violent like they could have if she had been fighting me or something.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Did you know that then or do you know that now in hindsight, based on.

[Israel Keys]

No, I knew what she was doing at the time. I knew, you know, she was. She was talking to me and telling.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Me.

[Israel Keys]

You know, saying, oh, you're a good looking guy. Why are you. You don't have to do this. I probably would have even gone out with you and all this stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keys]

Like, I just kept telling her to shut up and she wouldn't, you know, she wouldn't. She just kept talking to me. So I guess it kind of.

[Agent Jolene Go]

She was able to personalize it a little bit.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Huh?

[Agent Jolene Go]

She was able to personalize it or something to where you.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't know. I just. I think the main thing is I just lost my nerve right at the end because. Because, I mean, that wasn't. I mean, that never stopped me after that. You know, people would always talk to me. I never.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So what do you think changed that? Is she the only person that didn't feel after that, after something like that?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, well, I mean, she was. She was the first one that. I don't know if she. If she had reported. Maybe she did report it. I don't know. Like I say, she wasn't fighting, so I don't know if there. And I used a condom, so I don't know if there would have been. Anybody would have believed her if she did. I don't know. I never heard anything about it. If I had heard about it, it definitely would have made me. I like. Yeah, for years after that, for like two years after that, I kept telling myself I should have killed her and like really beat myself up about that. That I got. I chickened out and kind of felt like I screwed up.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So you didn't make that mistake again?

[Israel Keys]

Well.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Kind of.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Not on that level.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

You said she was part of a group. She was the last. I thought you said she was the.

[Israel Keys]

Last one yeah, there was like, I don't know, four. Four or five of them.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Like her friends that she was with or something?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So was she separated from them already or did you separate her from.

[Ryan Seacrest]

She was.

[Israel Keys]

The river was pretty fast in that area and the beach where I was was. It was kind of like on a dog leg of the river. So once you went around it, you couldn't really see it. It was. Three friends went around the corner and I just grabbed. Jumped out of the bushes and grabbed her.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

What'd you do when you finished?

[Agent Jolene Go]

Then what happened to her?

[Israel Keys]

I just told her to get back on her tube and go down the river. Like I said, it was pretty fast. So I'm sure her friends were wondering why she was so far behind.

[Agent Jolene Go]

How long do you think that she was away from her friends?

[Israel Keys]

It was probably like an hour, half hour to an hour.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

I would think they would be worried.

[Israel Keys]

I'm sure they made it. It was a long river run. It was. I forget how long it took. It seems like it took.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Most people.

[Israel Keys]

It seems like it took them maybe an hour or two to tube down. If you were on an inner tube.

[Agent Jolene Go]

In other words, to the takeout.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

They couldn't stop or angle back once they stepped out.

[Israel Keys]

There were only a couple places where you could put in at and then pull out at least on. And then there were these beaches along the way where you could stop. But not everybody did.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you ever tied up?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Where'd you learn how to do all the knots and all the. All that kind of stuff?

[Israel Keys]

No, it's just on your own? Yeah, I read a lot of books.

[Agent Jolene Go]

But you used it mostly for like rigging and stuff for your construction or working?

[Israel Keys]

No, I started out like ropes and knots. I started out really young, you know, like 12 or 14. I started building rafts and stuff like that. Rope bridges and all that. I used to hang out in the woods by myself.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So how long had you planned to take somebody before you actually got up the nerve to do it?

[Israel Keys]

For that one or. Yeah, for that one. Well, that was. I think I got down there in the spring and I think that was late summer when I. When I did it. But I mean, I had been thinking about it for years before that. I just never actually thought I would do it. And then once I left the area where I grew up and was in a new area, it seemed a lot more feasible just because it was like nobody knew me. It was all strangers and everybody was really friendly. It was one of those situations where I Just knew it would be really easy.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

She saw your face. You didn't wear any disguise?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, no, I wasn't disguised. I was in my. I was in my swimsuit.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Did you have to drive there, or did you. Was it close enough to where you were hiking there or what?

[Israel Keys]

No, that one was. I think there was access to it, but I think there was a gate. I think I had to park up on the road and then walk down to the beach to get down by the river, I think.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So back then, did you develop some type of kit where you had rope and.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, yeah, I had all that stuff with me. I think it was. I think it was one of those beaches where they locked the gates at dusk or in the afternoon or something. And so my plan originally was, you know, to stay there all night because I knew nobody would be going down, like, driving down to the. To that beach. Anybody who would be going by would just be on the river. And that was usually. By the time it was getting dark, there were only a few groups going by on the river. It was usually thinned out by then. So.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Is that when you'd say you started getting. Feeling a little bit empowered, getting away with that?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I wasn't sure all that. I got away with it. I was pretty paranoid about it for a long time.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Did you do anything in that one that. Other than what you've already told us and how it ended that you learned from that you didn't want to do again or mistakes that you made?

[Israel Keys]

Well, It's just. I mean, yeah, I just. I didn't make any mistakes, per se, but in my mind, it didn't go at all the way I was planning, so.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Because of the ending?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. And just because I didn't ever feel like I was really in control on that one. I guess I was too timid, like I wasn't violent enough or something. Because she didn't.

[Agent Jolene Go]

She wasn't as afraid of you as you?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, she was. Yeah. Kind of pissed me off, actually. Later, like, thinking about it, that I let her get to me, you know, Kind of pissed me off.

[Agent Jolene Go]

She'd become more violent?

[Israel Keys]

Well, no. I mean, no, not unless it had to be, but, I mean, yeah, I just made up my mind that that was never gonna happen again.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Was she frightened?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, yeah, she was.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Can you tell us what you did to her? You raped Foreign.

[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I mean, I had her, I had her tied up.

[Agent Jolene Go]

There were.

[Israel Keys]

It was like one of those handicap accessible bathrooms that had the bars along the walls. I had her tied to those.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How would she tie.

[Israel Keys]

I had once around her neck to one of the bars and then I.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Had her.

[Israel Keys]

Arms tied out so she couldn't move over the. It had, I mean it was like I say it was just a remote bathroom. There wasn't running water or anything. There was just, just an outhouse. Basically I had like the lid of the outhouse closed and I had her tied over that on her stomach.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So she was facing forward on her stomach.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I mean I was, I was pretty young and I'm sure she could tell I was fairly young and so I think that's why she didn't take it maybe as seriously. I don't know. It was weird. It's still weird when I think about it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What was so weird about.

[Israel Keys]

Just her reaction to. Everything was weird.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What was her reaction?

[Israel Keys]

I think maybe, I think maybe she had either had Something like that happen or had thought about what she would do, she just didn't seem like Everybody else I took always seemed completely surprised, like they didn't expect it. Like they had never even thought of a scenario, like what they were in. And with her, it didn't seem like that. It seemed like she kind of knew what to say and stuff. And so, I mean, she was scared, but I think in a lot of ways she was more calm about it than I was because I was, you.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Know.

[Israel Keys]

Had a lot of adrenaline at the time. Yeah. So after. She. Yeah, she just kept talking the whole time, like, even afterward, just. Like, it kind of talking, like. Trying to reason with me, but also just talking. So it's like about random stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know.

[Israel Keys]

It was weird.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Still trying to be your friend or at least stay on the good side.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

I remember she even asked me, like, weird stuff if I lived around there. Not like she was questioning me, just trying to be friendly or something.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Back then, did you. After you did this, did you go out? Did you do feel the need to do anything else, like.

[Israel Keys]

No, I was.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Houses or banks.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, well, Armed robberies.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

That's.

[Israel Keys]

Most days that's better. Especially if it's like a small town. Remember, the first one I did was freaked out and. But then once I got in there and actually was doing it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I remember.

[Israel Keys]

One of the ladies at the counter, she was about the same age as my mom. And just the look on her face, I was like, I still think about that.

[Agent Jolene Go]

She couldn't believe it.

[Israel Keys]

Not just that, but she was just terrified, you know, And I hadn't really done anything. It wasn't even like. It wasn't that crazy of a robbery. It was just.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Where was that at?

[Israel Keys]

That was a long time ago.

[Agent Jolene Go]

When was that?

[Israel Keys]

I'm always surprised that as much stuff as I've done, it always crossed my mind that at some point somebody's going to have a gun. And I knew that the whole time. And for some reason I kept telling myself, I was like, you really need to get a bulletproof vest, because one of these days somebody's going to have a gun. I just never did.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know. Did anyone ever pull a gun on you?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So how old were you with the first armed robbery? I don't remember.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Was it before this incident or after?

[Israel Keys]

Or in Oregon? Yeah, it was in Washington.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So when you moved to Washington, it was after you moved in?

[Israel Keys]

Moved to Washington? No, it was before I moved to.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Oregon, but it was in Washington.

[Israel Keys]

Washington.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Was it a store or a bank? Sounds like a store, yeah. Was it just. Do you remember the name?

[Agent Jolene Go]

Do you remember why did you do that?

[Israel Keys]

I mean, I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Was it for money then or still?

[Israel Keys]

Well, it was for money, but.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Do you remember how much money you got?

[Israel Keys]

No, it wasn't very much.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What was the name of the girl that you raped?

[Israel Keys]

I have no idea.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

She didn't tell you her name? You didn't?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, she told me her first name was Leah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Say it again.

[Israel Keys]

Leah. I think Leah or Lena. Something else. Yeah, but she. I mean, she didn't tell me her last name. I didn't ask.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Did you tell you anything else about her?

[Israel Keys]

I don't know if that was. No. She was mostly just, you know, asking me questions.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

When you were raping her, did you hurt her in any other way?

[Israel Keys]

I had her tied up pretty tight, but I don't know if. I imagine she had some bruises or something on her wrist, but at the time, I mean, it was dark, I don't think. It wasn't anything real obvious. It's not like I hit her or anything.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

You didn't cut her at all with a knife?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And how did you raise her?

[Israel Keys]

I just raped her once. It wasn't anything really crazy. Didn't want to spray.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Badge link.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah. Did you ever see her after that? Did you ever go back to the river?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Yeah, we used to go down there every day.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you go with other people?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I would go down with my family when they were there, you know, that's how I knew all these different areas along the river. We'd get up and work on the house in the morning, work from about 5 to 12 or so. It would get really hot there above 100 in the afternoon, so we'd go down to the river. Then once it cooled off in the evenings, I'd go back to the clubhouse.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you ever go back to this exact spot where the restroom was? No.

[Israel Keys]

I went back the next day because I was paranoid. I thought maybe I left first. I drove by a couple times because I thought there might be police there and. But there were several spots like that along the river. I don't know, 2020 hindsight. She might not have even been able to tell which spot it was because it was dark. Kind of dark. Yeah, it was. And there weren't really any landmarks, no signs or anything. But, yeah, I went back the next day. I finally stopped and just went into the bathroom to make sure because I was thinking I had dropped something or left something. There, I couldn't remember.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And then did you go in the military soon after that?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it was a couple years after that.

[Agent Jolene Go]

But you weren't, you weren't joining the military to get out of that area or anything?

[Israel Keys]

No, no, I finished that house.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You said this was your parents house?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, my dad, he sold our, our farm in eastern Washington and he bought this little fixer up. We're in that tiny little town in Maupin and me and one of my buddies that I had been working with put a big addition on it and turned it into this big house and stuff.

[Agent Jolene Go]

I mean we've talked about this before. You didn't have any formal training in that. How did you get so handy with building?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I worked for about a year and a half in Eastern Washington on a construction crew. That's how I got started out in.

[Agent Jolene Go]

It and doing everything from framing to.

[Israel Keys]

Finish or mostly framing. But yeah, that was, yeah, mostly framing up to that point. But then when I was in Oregon, that was the first house I did the electrical on. Like I did all the wiring and it all had to pass inspection and stuff. So I was just, just. That's just the way I would learn to do stuff, just by doing it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And did your parents live in that house?

[Israel Keys]

No, none of us ever lived in that house. It was, it was brand new. Once we were done, it was like new. And my dad put it on the.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Market.

[Israel Keys]

Didn'T sell, so I think he had to rent it for a while.

[Rob Gronkowski]

This is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Sunday mornings are sacred. I've got my game day routine, coffee jersey laid out and my lucky playlist. But the real game changer, new morning uncrustables sandwiches.

[Julian Edelman]

I've always loved uncrustable sandwiches and now I'm all about the new flavors with 12 grams of protein. Bright eyed berry or up an apple. Bright eyed berries got that flashy, finesse vibe like your favorite slot receiver.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Up an apple. Tough and reliable like a do it all tight end.

[Julian Edelman]

And players love them. Did you know teams crush over 80,000 uncrustable sandwiches a year? They know it's good.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's a snack that can go with you anywhere from the couch to the tailgate or even in the locker room. Soft bread, yummy fillings, protein packed. Once it's part of your ritual, you.

[Julian Edelman]

Don'T skip it easy enough for Gronk to grab straight from the freezer.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with the new morning uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Flu season is here and the in store pharmacy has you covered with a free flu shot with most insurance plans. And as a thank you, get up to $20 off your grocery purchase. Plus it's cough and cold season. Stock up on all the season's essentials and get ready for relief with discounts on items like Mucinex, Children's Multi Symptom Cold Medicine, Zara Bees Children's Cough Syrup and Emergen c. Offer ends January 27th. Restrictions apply and offers may vary by location. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Israel Keys]

And then it finally sold. And that's when he bought the property in Maine. But in the meantime, we had gone back to upstate New York. That's where I lived for about a year.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So how long did you spend in Oregon total?

[Israel Keys]

It was less than a year, I think.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And while you were living there, were you living in that house or someplace else?

[Israel Keys]

No, I was living in a camper I built on the back of my truck.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And were your parents living there?

[Israel Keys]

No, my parents were. They had a trailer that they were staying in at the other. They were working for a food company down there in Oregon? Yeah, like a wholesale foods company. And so they would come over on their days off and help us with the house. But for. For the most part, it was just me and my buddy that stayed there at the house.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Who was your buddy?

[Israel Keys]

His name was Eric Robertson.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Eric Robertson?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you ever keep in touch with him?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, he still calls me sometimes. He's not. He had a really bad accident a few years ago. He's not really what he used to be.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Is he still in Oregon?

[Israel Keys]

No, I think he lives in Idaho or Colorado now. He had some pretty major head trauma. From an accident? Yeah, he ran into a tree on a snowmobile.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Where did that happen?

[Israel Keys]

I think that happened in Colorado. That was years ago, but ever since that happened, he's been keeping in touch with me and stuff. He just kind of. He's changed a lot. I, like, feel the accident. He used to have his own construction business and do all these fancy houses in Colorado. And then he had that accident and just kind of dropped off the radar.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He's your age?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. He might be a year or two older than me.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

When was the last time you spoke to him?

[Israel Keys]

It probably would have been a couple weeks before I got arrested.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He probably called.

[Israel Keys]

He was calling me pretty regularly.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Over.

[Israel Keys]

The last couple years.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So after you ranked the girl There on the river, you said you were pretty nervous about getting caught.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How long was it between that incident and when you next got up the nerve to do another crime?

[Israel Keys]

I didn't do anything really bad when I was in the Army. Kind of balanced me out and gave me something else to focus on, I guess. Not so much free time.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How about before you got in the Army? Between when you raped this girl and when you got in the Army?

[Israel Keys]

No, there wasn't anything major. I think I. Well, yeah, there wasn't.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What are you thinking of?

[Israel Keys]

No, there were, like, a couple. Actually, It wasn't in New York, but it was. There were a few things that happened, but nothing major.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, what are you thinking of? Huh? What are you thinking of?

[Israel Keys]

What's majored? Well, like I said, no, that was major. Like, to me at the time, that was a big deal. Like the whole thing that happened on the Deschutes, that was a big deal. And so I was really paranoid after that. I was convinced that. I don't remember if I was worried about DNA at the time, but I was convinced that there was some big investigation trying to find out who had done this, when in reality, like 2020 hindsight. Maybe she never even told anybody. I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

But what made this one different? You said that prior to this, she wasn't the first person that you had that you'd raped or at least had sex with that wasn't a willing participant. What made this one? Because you tied her up and it was.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, because I was gonna kill her.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So how about before that?

[Israel Keys]

And she knew I was gonna kill her.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So before that, the people that you raped didn't think they were going to get killed. It was just. They knew it was just a rape. How would they know that?

[Israel Keys]

There was never anything on that level. Up until that point.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And what were you just thinking of about New York?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, there was. I wasn't. I didn't live in New York for very long, but I can remember.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Before I got in the army, I would go up to Montreal sometimes. There wasn't nothing major, though. I mean, nothing like that. I just. I was out looking for trouble, but I didn't get into it, didn't get caught.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What kind of trouble would you get away with in Montreal?

[Israel Keys]

There were. I don't know, there were a few strip clubs that I would go to. Just, you know, like, bad parts of town up there, stuff. You can find a lot of trouble in Montreal if you're looking for places. And, you know, I almost. I was. I Don't even think I was 20 at the time. You know, I almost got in some bad situations up there. Kind of freaked me out and.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

With prostitutes?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, just, you know, like, typical. Being in the bad part of town, bad hotels kind of thing, you know.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Like.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Because you didn't look like you fit in them, you became a target or. What made you.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, just because I was young and. And I had it. I mean, I had a gun with me, so I thought that made me invincible. But then I realized, like, Canada, that's actually a bad thing. You show a gun and all of a sudden everybody. You know, it's not nearly as. It's a lot bigger deal than if you show a gun down here. So after that, I didn't take a gun to Canada anymore.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Did you go there with the intention of doing something?

[Israel Keys]

I went there with the intention of getting in trouble. I wasn't. No, I wasn't. It's not like I had anywhere staked out. I wasn't gonna. I was mostly there looking for prostitutes and stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

With the idea of killing anybody or just.

[Israel Keys]

Well, no, no, I didn't. I mean, I had stuff with me, me, but I don't think I would have done anything. It was just like. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I would have.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What kind of stuff?

[Israel Keys]

Just my stuff, like knives and ropes and stuff like that. You know, the usual.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Well, at some point in time, to look from ropes to cable ties with the courier.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, cable ties were hurt. I thought they were a good invention. Turns out ropes are better.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So you talked about this Leah or this girl on the shoots. How old were you when you. When you first raped somebody? You said 18 or 19. With this girl. How long ago?

[Israel Keys]

No, that was the first person I raped. I mean, technically, stranger rape type thing.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But you didn't. We know you didn't kill her, right?

[Israel Keys]

No, I didn't kill her.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

When was the first time. How old were you when you first killed somebody?

[Israel Keys]

You're trying to nail down dates again, aren't you?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm trying to figure you out a little bit because you said that, you told me that you look back on it, you thought you should have killed this girl.

[Israel Keys]

I should have, yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

If that's her. That's what you said.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And so you did learn something from that. You wish you had killed her.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And so.

[Agent Jolene Go]

After her, you never let anybody go, correct?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm trying to figure out how old you were. I mean, here you were 18 at that time. Because that's a big step, I would imagine, right? I mean, that was a big thing.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, Yeah. I was convinced that I had it all figured out at the time. I was into a lot of weird stuff back then. I mean, I thought I was a Satanist and stuff. Had a lot different philosophy than I do now.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

When you were 18?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. So I, I thought I had a lot of stuff figured out and then, you know, when it actually came time to do it, I. Yeah, at the time it was just. I just couldn't follow through with it on my part. You know, for the next four years after that, I would think about it and, you know.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Change.

[Israel Keys]

Change my philosophy be changed on why I wanted to do it and stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How did that change?

[Agent Jolene Go]

From what to what?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I just, I mean, at the time I thought that I was just into that whole Satanist symbolism type stuff and I thought that was the reason I was doing it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keys]

And then.

[Rob Gronkowski]

This is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings are sacred. I've got my game day routine, coffee jersey laid out and my lucky playlist. But the real game changer, new morning uncrustables sandwiches.

[Julian Edelman]

I've always loved uncrustable sandwiches and now I'm all about the new flavors with 12 grams of protein. Bright eyed berry or up an apple. Bright eyed berries got that flashy finesse vibe like your favorite slot receiver up an apple.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Tough and reliable like a do it all tight end.

[Julian Edelman]

And players love them. Did you know teams crush over 80,000 uncrustable sandwiches a year? They know it's good.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's a snack that can go with you anywhere from the couch to the tailgate or or even in the locker room. Soft bread, Yummy fillings. Protein packed. Once it's part of your ritual, you don't skip it.

[Julian Edelman]

Easy enough for Gronk to grab straight from the freezer.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with the new morning uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Flu season is here and the in store pharmacy has you covered with a free flu shot with most insurance plans. And as a thank you, get up to $20 off your grocery purchase. Plus it's cough and cold season. Stock up on all the season's essentials and get ready for relief with discounts on items like Mucinex Children's multi symptom cold medicine, Zara B's children's cough syrup and emergency. Offer ends January 27th. Restrictions apply and offers may vary by location. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Israel Keys]

Over the next few years, I realized that I didn't really even believe in that stuff. I just, At the time I was just using that as justification or reason or something. That wasn't really the reason I wanted to do it. It was just because I wanted to do it. And then so once I kind of came to terms with that, there wasn't. Wasn't a higher power, if you will, that I was going to do, do it for. It was just something I wanted to do that made it a lot easier.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So you weren't doing it for the devil or Satan or.

[Israel Keys]

That's what I. Yeah, but at the time that stuff meant a lot to me, or I thought it did. I was just really pissed off in general at the time. The whole religious upbringing, typical teenage anger issues, whatever, but nobody ever saw that side of me, you know, Everybody. That's why it always. That's why I did things like that. Because it would just not like I had a temper. I would blow up at people. I just. But it was still there. It would come out. When I did those kind of things, when I did robberies or glitteries and stuff, I knew I wasn't going to get caught for it. You know, I just burn things, break things.

[Agent Jolene Go]

How'd you know you weren't going to get caught for it? You just felt that way based on your planning. You seem pretty good at those things. I mean, is it.

[Israel Keys]

I just read a of lot of crime books.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Let me. So after you didn't kill the girl in the river, you said something changed, you realized you weren't. You were not doing it for some.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I just. I just realized I didn't really believe in that stuff.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Obviously after the brandings.

[Israel Keys]

That was.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, let's talk about that in a second. But what was the. I want to understand your change in your thinking.

[Israel Keys]

I. Well, I mean at the time I was going from like I say, really religious upbringing to becoming an atheist. Once you become an atheist, you can't really be a Satanist.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So.

[Israel Keys]

Kind of a progression of thinking, logical thought, I guess. I never really, like I say, I wanted to believe in it. I tried really hard. I thought that if I did all the things that these books said and did all the right rituals or whatever, that I would get some kind of confirmation that there was Satan or that I was doing something special. But the more I read about it, the less convinced I became.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So you never had that happen?

[Israel Keys]

I never did that, no. But like that girl was that's why, like I say, I probably would have choked her just because I was afraid of getting caught. But I had, like, all the knives and stuff with me.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

To do what?

[Israel Keys]

Well, you can't. Like all the rituals that I was reading at the time, you know, it's all. It's like bloodletting and stuff. You don't strangle people.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Did you talk to her about that and what you were going to do or talk to her about the satanic piece?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No.

[Israel Keys]

Honestly, once it actually started, all that stuff, I still had it in my mind, but all that just kind of went on the back burner because it was.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

There were.

[Israel Keys]

A lot of other issues that I had to deal with.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So when you were raping her, you realized that it wasn't about Satan, it was just about the rape?

[Israel Keys]

Well, that was the main reason I took her. It wasn't. I was into all that stuff at the time. But, I mean, if it hadn't been for my intentions to rape her, then I would never have taken someone. I would never take someone just to kill him for some ritual. There was a time when I definitely would have done that in addition to. But not for the sole purpose. I just never was that devout, I guess.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So you weren't gonna take someone just to kill them for some sacrificial thing? No.

[Israel Keys]

And so that was just an idea. I had an extra bonus or whatever.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What was the extra bonus?

[Israel Keys]

The. Rituals, stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So what changed between the incident on the river and when you finally got up the nerve to kill somebody?

[Israel Keys]

There's just a lot of stuff that happened when I was in the army that changed my perspective on things. Yeah, Just seeing, like I say, we went to Egypt and just completely having never been outside of the United States up until that point just really changed my perspective on the big picture and made me realize that, you know, if that was what I wanted to do, then I should just do it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

If you wanted to kill somebody?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Because it wasn't. Because all the stuff I had been so concerned about before didn't really matter that much. It was. I guess you could say I just kind of came to terms with myself and the reasons why I wanted to do it. There was a. There was a girl that I met in. I think it was when I was in Tel Aviv. She was pretty young. She was a student. She was Turkish, but I think she was from Norwegian. Yeah, she's a Norwegian exchange student or something. I wouldn't say that was like an outright rape because she, you know, we were. We were hanging out and Stuff and she, she allowed herself to be, you know, like, oh, it was in her room. She took me. She told me where her room was and stuff. And I was gonna. I almost. Well, I did lose control a little bit as things progressed. And. That's when I realized.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

That if I.

[Israel Keys]

Was going to do that kind of stuff, I had to do it had to just be complete strangers from then on. It couldn't be anyone who knew me or who had seen me around the person or shouldn't even. Like the whole thing that happened in Oregon freaked me out because I could almost see the beach from where I worked every day. And it was just too close to home. And I was. I just realized that if I kept doing stuff like that, it was only a matter of time before I got caught. So that's when. I don't know. After that happened in Tel Aviv, I just got really careful and decided for one thing that I wasn't going to do anything when I was in the army because they always had tabs on me. They always knew where I was and they always knew like my buddies were. If we were in Tel Aviv or e lot or somewhere in Israel, my buddies were usually just right around the corner. And it was pretty much the same thing when I was in Washington. When I was stationed in Washington, they were. I mean, I had my own truck and stuff and I would go to eastern Washington sometimes, but for the most part, they always knew where I was. And I just realized I had to kind of chill out and not do anything. Also, I mean, I had knives and stuff, but all my guns I kept stored off base because you weren't supposed to have guns in your room. When I was in the army.

[Rob Gronkowski]

This is Rob Gronkowski from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jules. Sunday mornings are sacred. I've got my game day routine coffee jersey laid out in my lucky playlist. But the real game changer, new morning uncrustables sandwiches.

[Julian Edelman]

I've always loved uncrustable sandwiches and now I'm all about the new flavors with 12 grams of protein. Bright eyed berry or up an apple. Bright eyed berries got that flashy, finesse vibe like your favorite slot receiver.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Up an apple. Tough and reliable like a do it all tight end.

[Julian Edelman]

And players love them. Did you know teams crush over 80,000 uncrustable sandwiches a year? They know it's good.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's a snack that can go with you anywhere from the couch to the tailgate or even in the locker room. Soft bread, yummy fillings, protein packed once it's part of your ritual, you don't skip it.

[Julian Edelman]

Easy enough for Gronk to grab straight from the freezer.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with the new morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Israel Keys]

So, yeah, I just, I don't know. For the most part, when I was in the Army, I was. I got in less trouble when I was in the army than pretty much any other time. But yeah, it didn't take long after I got out, like, almost. There were a few months. I had had a DUI when I was in the army right before I got out. So there were a few months there where I was trying not to drive because I didn't want to get busted again for driving a suspended license and was on unemployment. So I just spent a lot of.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Time.

[Israel Keys]

Sitting around and, you know, that's. That's always what would start it up for me, just sitting around and reading stuff or.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What kind of stuff were you reading?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, just, you know, that kind of thing. Like serial killer stuff, slasher movies and all that stuff that I had always been into. But when I sit around and do.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

It.

[Israel Keys]

Then it just gets to where I, I just get really rested and feel like I have to do something.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So how long.

[Israel Keys]

Hence the branding. Branding works for a while.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How long until you got out of the Army? How long after that did you last?

[Israel Keys]

Not very long, For the most part. I was pretty good, though, because Laney was. Lainey was born just a few months after I got out. And then I got another job, and that kept me stable most of the time.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Best one at Knee Bay.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So when did the brandings happen?

[Israel Keys]

I started doing that when I was in the army, but.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I think the.

[Israel Keys]

Last one I did maybe five or six years, seven years ago.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Which one was your first one?

[Israel Keys]

It was the one on my neck. On the back of my neck. Neck. The pentagram.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. Definitely.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Somebody else did that.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. One of my, one of the guys in my squad did that when I was in Egypt I think.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Did he wonder why you were getting that on your neck?

[Israel Keys]

They all knew I had issues. That's why I wasn't really close with any of them really. There was only one other guy, he had serious issues too. And who was that? His name. His name. But we would stay up and I mean we had different kinds of issues but they were similar.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So what kind of stuff do the other guys, what kind of issues would they see that they.

[Israel Keys]

They just knew I had. Psychosocial issues, I guess. I don't know what you would call it. There was that, like I say, there was that time when I went to Tel Aviv when I was in Egypt and they saw some of the stuff I did when I was for instance. Well, they knew that there was, there was a prostitute in Tel Aviv. She. I wouldn't, I didn't let her out of the room for a while and she tried to kick me when I finally decided to let her out and my buddies got really mad at me and got all freaked out because she was employed by the Russian mob over there and they had been calling her phone the whole time and I guess they were banging on all my buddies doors trying to find out which room she was in and they got really pissed off at me because you know, those guys were serious. They were like these two really big.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Guys who were looking for her.

[Israel Keys]

And. And she was pissed off at me for other reasons.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

So they knew I had issues. Yeah. And then when the branding and stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Started like.

[Israel Keys]

I got you know like threatened with write ups and stuff because some of the CO's found out about it. For the most part I was like a model soldier, just not stuff that I would do when we were in our off time like Egypt is. I thought I could get away with it over there because I mean I did, I got away with it. But there were some close calls, like I said, where things could have got really out of hand really quick. So you know, when we got back to Washington a lot of the guys in my squad didn't want to hang out with me if it was like in a social situation because they didn't know what to expect.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, they just thought I was weird. That was the main thing.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

What brand came after that one? After the one on your neck?

[Israel Keys]

Probably the one on my arm. The iz.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Did you do that one yourself?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, most of them I did myself. I think I had to have the one on my back down a couple times to get it to stick.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Which one's on your back?

[Israel Keys]

The pentagram.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

But yeah, the rest of them I. I mostly did myself.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

With a cigar or.

[Israel Keys]

No, with a coat hanger.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

You have an upside down cross, right?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Is that one that you did yourself?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that was one of the last ones I did.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

How long ago was that?

[Israel Keys]

Maybe seven or eight years ago.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So what was the meaning? Because that's after you're out of all the satanic stuff and all that. So what was the meaning of that one for you?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I mean, I considered myself an atheist for a long time, but that doesn't mean. I mean, I still have issues with it.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

So more about atheism then?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, satanic stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So going back to when you got out of the army and you're living in Neo Bay, right?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And you said it was. You had a lot of downtime and you'd been kind of holding back on the stuff that you were thinking about doing, what set that free, what made it kind of go to the step where you were to act.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't know if I want to talk about that yet.

[Agent Jolene Go]

There was something, I mean, an event or. There was.

[Israel Keys]

There was stuff that happened when I was in Neah Bay.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

I just don't know. I don't want to give the whole timeline on it right now, you know.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Don'T give me the timeline. I'm just the thought process or what. What made it change?

[Israel Keys]

Well, like I say, I got out of the army and. Anytime I'd get to where I had downtime or, you know, if I would leave Neah Bay, get out of Neah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Bay.

[Israel Keys]

All that stuff was still there, you know, like every time I'd drive and make a drive somewhere, I'd be looking for places, good places to do stuff. At that point I had, you know, I just knew. I just accepted it was only a matter of time, time and opportunity before I did something again. I just had decided by then that I wasn't going to do anything quite as compulsive, I guess. Decided to plan it out a little better or something.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, it seems like even from when you were in Oregon, you planned out taking that girl. That's pretty well planned.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. But. Yeah, it was. But it was mostly just the situation that worked out because, I mean, I hadn't even lived there very long when I did that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You didn't know the area very well.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know what to expect or anything. My thought process had always been that if there's not a body, then, you know, just like there's not a body and not any witnesses, then, you know, there's a big search or whatever, sometimes.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But.

[Israel Keys]

If the person's not connected to me, then I probably won't ever even be questioned about it or whatever.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did that work? That's the way it worked, right?

[Israel Keys]

Well, yeah. I was just convinced that I had screwed up that time in Oregon because, you know, I, She. I let her go.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Up until the time you were arrested in Texas, have you ever been questioned before about any of the murders that you committed? No. No one ever stopped you? Question you? How about any rapes? Anybody ever question you about any of.

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How about any other crimes you committed? Were you ever questioned? No.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I mean, there was like, really minor stuff that happened when I was a teenager when I was breaking into houses, but not.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You told us the other day that you could tell, you know, because you were trying to. You knew you didn't want to get caught. How would you identify a victim so that you would, you know, try to decrease the. The chances that you would be caught?

[Israel Keys]

Well, Back when I was smart, I would. Do it. I would let them come to me. Just remote area, you know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

If you.

[Israel Keys]

Go to a remote area that's not anywhere near where you live, but that other people go to as well, you might not get exactly what you're. There's not as much to choose from, in a manner of speaking, but there's also no witnesses, really. There's nobody else around, so. And then when they. When they disappear, a lot of times nobody's really surprised because it happens all the time.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

See, that's the part I'm trying to.

[Israel Keys]

Marathon running.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

To Mount Marathon Guy.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But what I'm trying to figure out, so. But if somebody's camping in a remote spot, someone's going to know that they didn't come home. Right. So did you have other things you looked for in a victim?

[Israel Keys]

No, it was, you know, it's just you asking what type of people I would pick or.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, what type? Or whether there was a wedding.

[Israel Keys]

I didn't really have a type.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

I had preference, but it wasn't.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What's the preference?

[Israel Keys]

Well, lightweight.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Is that because of attraction or because of disposal?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, kind of makes it easier. Okay. But, you know, it's not. It's not a deal breaker.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. I just. Like I say, like the couriers.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

That was.

[Israel Keys]

Well, no, there were a couple other times, but I don't know. There are places where it always surprises me you know, like some situations you read about in the paper, like so and so disappeared. Presumed boating accident, for example. They find their boat. You don't know what really happened to that person. I'm not the only person who figured this out.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Do you think there's a lot of people like you out there?

[Israel Keys]

No, but I don't think it takes a lot, you know, and like I say, if. If you're not picky, if you can control your. If I had been able to control myself, then, you know, who knows how long?

[Agent Jolene Go]

I don't know. Are you telling us that there's bodies that have been found that were accidental deaths that ruled like that or that look like that?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Is that what you're telling us?

[Israel Keys]

Well, maybe one, but for the most part, for me, no. I'm just saying as an example, someone.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Might say, oh, it looks like a boating accident, but you knew.

[Israel Keys]

Boating accident, hiker disappears, fire, fires.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So on one instance where you killed somebody, it was. It appeared and as if it were an accident. So that's got to be kind of empowering.

[Israel Keys]

Well, right. I never took that for granted, though, because I knew. I've known for a long time because of the things that I've done that have been in the news. I've known that, like what you read that happened and what I know that actually happened. Sometimes it's almost not even recognizable really. So I never took it for granted. I always assumed that if a body was found that they were. Somebody was going to be after me for it. I was always prepared for that and I always had. I always thought I had alibis and stuff. That was always in the back of my mind. Kind of hard to keep track of after a while, you know.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But you anticipated if they found the body. Here's what my story's gonna be, right? Were there any close calls where they found a body and you were prepared, kind of prepared for that?

[Israel Keys]

Well, like I say, I don't know if it was a close call. I don't know. I know that. I know that what was made public, it never seemed like it was close to me.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

The body recovered and you were worried they were going to come in, ask questions about it?

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[Detective Jeff Bell]

Was that only one time?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you consider that a mistake on your part? Somehow the body was recovered? Well, I don't.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Back then.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, yeah, it was a mistake.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What happened where you rushed? Did you not do something the way you planned?

[Israel Keys]

No, I was. It was kind of the same situation as. The couriers. I just wasn't in a position to get rid of it right away. So I decided to try and make it look. I mean, it was already going to be assumed that it was an accident of some sort. And my concern was that the body would be found before it had decomposed enough. But.

[Agent Jolene Go]

How long ago was that?

[Israel Keys]

That was a while ago.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But the body. So wait, I don't get.

[Israel Keys]

I don't get that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Your concern was the body wouldn't have been decomposed enough. That makes it sound like you went back or.

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm just saying if it had been found right away, it probably wouldn't have been thought to be an accident anymore.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. I read a story once about an elderly couple that I think it was like an arson or something like that where, you know, to try to cover up the bodies. Is that the kind of thing you're talking about?

[Israel Keys]

Not specifically, but No, I know what you're saying.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Where they were probably killed, but they recovered the bodies in the house fire upon inspection. They think they're probably dead before the fire.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Is that the kind of thing you're talking about?

[Israel Keys]

No, you can get around that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Like, get around that. How so?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, just the whole. I. No, I. I know what you're saying. Like, the people try to use fires to cover up murder, but.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Right.

[Israel Keys]

If you don't plan it out. Right. It doesn't work.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Usually they can tell that they were dead. Right.

[Israel Keys]

Because the body's not going to burn up all the way. So you have to make sure that whoever. Whoever's in the fire has to still be breathing when the fire is going or else it doesn't work.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So that the smoke kills them or something like that.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So. But you were talking about a body that wasn't going to be decomposed enough. That's what I'm not understanding.

[Israel Keys]

Right. Yeah, because I wasn't planning on. I wasn't planning on going back and getting rid of it. I was just gonna. I was just hoping that. I thought it would be found. I just was hoping it would be enough time that. That they wouldn't be able to figure out that it wasn't natural causes, kind of.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So, like, you're talking about somebody just found in house that wouldn't be missed for a really long time? Something like.

[Israel Keys]

No, that's a good idea, though. It's kind of hard to figure out.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, like the couriers, if that house had remained standing for what, 10 years or something, and then somebody weren't 10 years later, there wouldn't be much to find.

[Israel Keys]

No, in that case, I was planning to go back.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Right, but the other case you're talking about, you were not planning on going. Right. But you thought enough time would pass that the bodies would decompose?

[Israel Keys]

Enough. Yeah, enough.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Were you worried that evidence of sexual assault or the method of death was going to be discovered if they just.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Method of death.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So in that case, the bodies were found.

[Israel Keys]

Body. Yeah, the body was found.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Body was found. But nobody ever suspected foul play?

[Israel Keys]

I don't know.

[Agent Jolene Go]

But it was enough time that you were.

[Israel Keys]

I wasn't too worried about it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How long?

[Israel Keys]

I was concerned about it.

[Agent Jolene Go]

How long was it between the time that he left the body and the time it was discovered?

[Israel Keys]

I don't remember exactly what the date because I didn't read about it until quite a bit later. I kind of read about it after the fact, so I don't know what date it was actually found. It was. I remember thinking at the time, I wasn't that worried. I was kind of concerned, but I wasn't that worried. I was never worried. Even with this dumb stuff I was doing, I was never worried. I was always, like I say I was concerned. I would try and try and figure out, like, what to do in case of worst case scenario kind of thing, but I would. It's not like I was obsessed with it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, when this body was found, was there a plan that you had to put in place or you just said, stay cool. See what happens.

[Israel Keys]

With stuff like that? I was mostly worried about being talked to about it just as. Not as a suspect, just being talked to about a period.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Anyway, just saying. Hey, did you read about this?

[Israel Keys]

No. Like anyone in law enforcement, like, if someone had seen my license plate in the area, whatever.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Oh, we saw your truck.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Israel Keys]

Because I get nervous talking to normal people. So I figured if I was ever putting in an interview room or even just interviewed person to person, I didn't think I could pull it off. Like, if I knew something, I was pretty sure that anyone who was asking me about it was going to notice something, something. So that was my main concern, always to make sure it never got to that point.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Have you found the police in different parts of the country to be better or worse? Or are you more concerned about.

[Israel Keys]

Well, it got a lot better in the last few years.

[Agent Jolene Go]

This. This person. How did the. How did they d.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. I don't want to.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, there's no. There's no bullets, I take it.

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And there's obviously no evidence of. I don't know that you'd be giving away a big secret if they discovered this body and they thought it was an accident.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Accident?

[Israel Keys]

No, I know.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, it wouldn't have been an accident. You're thinking just natural causes. Someone found this person, must have died and no one found them. Something like that. An older person dies in their bed, Something like that. That's what I think you're talking about. If somebody who you know, they're not going to suspect foul play, they probably think, well, they had a heart attack. They're old and found him a year later.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Or they think he was climbing Mount Marathon and.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I don't know. You tell me.

[Agent Jolene Go]

They found this hiker's body at the bottom of a canyon.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You tell me.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that's definitely the smarter way to do. Anyway, I'm sure we'll talk about it at length eventually.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Great. But that Going back to what we were talking about earlier. So that was not this person whose body was found. That's not the first time you killed somebody. This is. We're talking about something different, something.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I'm not going to give you a context, but no, it was a while ago.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But not the first. No. How did you identify the target for the first person that you've been kind of working up to? How did you identify who that was going to be? Was it one of these where you go out and wait for somebody?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, well, yeah, not really wait, but, you know, if you know an area, you can pretty much plan on who you're going to run into, what type.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Of people and stuff that you're not going to have to wait too long for.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And this time I was young. So how did you get away from the house for long periods of time?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, there was, you know, there's. I could always think of some excuse. I, at the time, still had ties in eastern Washington, so it was pretty easy to say, you know, I'm just gonna go over to eastern Washington, check on the old place, go see so and so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And when you say ties, did you have family living there or friends?

[Israel Keys]

Friends.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So go and visit so and so and be gone for a few days.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Military friends or.

[Israel Keys]

No, like childhood friends.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How far is it from Neh Bay to the parts of eastern Washington that you had friends?

[Israel Keys]

Well, it's about as far as you can get, go in Washington and still be in the state.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

How long does it take to drive then?

[Israel Keys]

At least nine hours, maybe 12.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Do you like to drive?

[Israel Keys]

Yep.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So what was it like? Take that, cross that line to actually following through the plan to kill somebody?

[Israel Keys]

It went a lot better the second time.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

The first time. The second time you killed somebody, what was the first time? What went wrong with the first?

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm just saying, like from that incident that happened on the river to when I actually did it the second I. Like the. Yeah. Second time I had someone actually tied up and stuff there.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Was it a restroom like the first time or something? No. Campsite, Woods.

[Israel Keys]

I had it. I had already had the area picked out and. But as far as I had a lot of areas picked out, I just had it set in my mind how it was going to happen. And I was determined that's the way it was going to happen that time in one city. It didn't really matter where. Like I say, I had several areas. It was kind of one of those things where first time the opportunity came.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Up, you were driving around or Were you camped out?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I was.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't.

[Israel Keys]

I guess you'd say I was going through several different areas, kind of thing.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Did it go to plan in.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And you were gonna. The first time you were gonna strangle the girl? Is that what you did? The second time, did you strangle her?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Were there any. Did you have a knife or a gun?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you use the knife with the gun? No. And it seems like you talked about tying. Tying a woman up. Is that. Did you tie this woman up?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, they were tied up.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Was it one person?

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm just pointing out I never said it was a woman.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

The person was tied up?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Does that mean it was a man, or are you just.

[Israel Keys]

No, he's not willing to commit one.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Way or the other.

[Agent Jolene Go]

We're not gonna catch you that easy, right?

[Israel Keys]

No, you already caught me. I already told you we'll talk about it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm just trying to move the ball forward and I know not spend another 30 days with my plan A and plan B. So I come back, I say, look, Israel, look at this. This is where we are. 32 days.

[Israel Keys]

Come on now. There should be more on that paper than that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

This is all I got from the time I met with you on June.

[Israel Keys]

June 7, last month. There hasn't been much.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And what's today's date?

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

10Th of July.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So we got 33 days have gone by, and this is all our time on this paper. So will you give me something that I can work with other folks with, something specific that I can at least buy us another 30 days, right? You know, I don't know. We're going to be here 30 days from now.

[Israel Keys]

What happens in 30 days?

[Agent Jolene Go]

I don't know what happened in the last 30 days.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I guess a lot could happen in the next 30 days, you know?

[Israel Keys]

Well, like I say, I want to. I want to be able to put some other things on the table, but I can't put them on the table with this at this meeting, obviously. Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I know there's stuff you want to talk about with your. Your active case that we're going to talk about now, but I'm talking about moving the ball forward as a whole in the context of the couriers or New York or Washington. Yeah, I don't.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't. Like I say, you already got me on the Couriers. I don't know what else I can tell you about that as far as New York. I'm not gonna give any more information on that or anything else until I. As far as Names or anything that is going to be like, we gotcha confession until I get something.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm not looking for the. We got. We gotcha already.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You said I'm looking for the. I'm looking for literally doing what we said we needed to do was clear up these cases. That there's not like a gotcha moment. It's a. Okay, now we know the scope of what we're talking about. I mean, you can think about it as just stuff, you know, law enforcement has to do. It's not a you gotcha stuff.

[Israel Keys]

No, I know you have to do it, but it takes. Frankly, this stuff has been out there a while, so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, but I mean, I don't get the idea that you're afraid to talk about it.

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm not. I just like you say, I. I only have so many things in my bag of tricks, and once they're gone, they're gone.

[Agent Jolene Go]

And we understand you correctly, still that we're still on the same page and that you have every intention eventually of giving us this information so that we can.

[Israel Keys]

Well, yeah, I have to get what I need to get out of it, though.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Understand that. I just want to make sure we're still on the same page and you're.

[Israel Keys]

Still changed your opinion on that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, if you have. If we've gone back to where we were before, if we've gotten 1/10 of the story or 1/15 of the story or however we want to.

[Israel Keys]

You've got a lot of the story now. You just don't have dates and names, honestly. I mean, I can give you dates and names, approximate dates anyway.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But we haven't gotten that for, you know, 10 other people. And, you know, I know you. I know you don't seem afraid to talk about it and you want to move things forward, so.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Even if you were to tell us, you know, one name a month, we'd still be here 10 months from now.

[Israel Keys]

That's not what I'm looking for, though. I'm not. I'm not looking to spread it out. I'm looking to get what I want out of it. And once you know, I get what I want, then I don't really care.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I think you've said, you said before you think we all want the same thing.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So what is it that you're trying to bargain with us about? I'm trying to figure it out. What do you want us to give you? No, that's.

[Israel Keys]

Like I say, it's hard to talk about all of it now, but one of the things I have concerns with that I might be talking to the wrong people on some of these other cases, and that I'm not sure. You know, like, once I give you names and dates, then of course, you need to contact that county or whatever to verify it. And then, you know, depending on what they have on file for it, they're going to say, you know, we want to do this is our. You know, I don't know how it works. I'm just. I'm concerned that you're not going to be able to keep control of it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

It sounds like you don't trust us, which I understand that.

[Israel Keys]

No, it's not that I don't trust you. I don't trust other people who are already involved. There are other people already involved in.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

These other cases, but we're controlling them. Right? I mean, I understand that maybe in general you wouldn't trust us, but it sounds like you specifically just don't trust what we said to you. That concerns me about the plan, because we've always said that we're going to live up to what we say. We're going to give you accurate information.

[Israel Keys]

Well, some of it is out of your control, though.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, it's not. I mean, you've got the FBI here, who can handle this around the country much more discreetly than Vermont. Like we all said, Vermont was kind of like, you know, I know we didn't have a plan. We didn't have a plan. We kind of got into it. But now we have a plan, and you've got the FBI here, and it can be worked in stages. If we don't work those stages, we're delaying what's going to have to eventually take place. And, you know. So it concerns me that you don't trust us.

[Israel Keys]

No, it's not you specifically I don't trust. It's my ultimate agenda. I know that you're not completely in control of.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, we're in a lot more control than you think, is what I'm sensing.

[Israel Keys]

You're in a lot more control than I am, but that's not saying much.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I guess, of all the people in this room. Right. You know, is it on these other cases that need to get cleared up, we're the people who are going to be in most control. We're going to be in more control. I mean, I don't think you want me to call the local state county attorney in New York. I mean, if you. You want that, I'll do it.

[Israel Keys]

No, I think. I think we can keep that case federal. Okay.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And I Think we can probably keep these other cases federal?

[Agent Jolene Go]

I don't know.

[Israel Keys]

That's what I'm worried about.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, I don't know.

[Israel Keys]

I might not even.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You could ask me some questions. I might not ask me some questions.

[Israel Keys]

Can I jump in on this?

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Washington's a good example. And that was actually something we wanted to talk to you about today is you had given us permission to. For the boat. That was when I wasn't here. It was a while back. And one of the things that we. We got your permission to take the boat, but we want to look in the boat. We want to go look in the stuff in the boat. We want to. There's some things that we want to do in the boat. In order for us to do that, we want to get us legally. One of the things that we can do is we can get a search warrant to do that. Right now we don't have.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

We don't want to get a search warrant because if we go get a search. Search warrant, then, you know, we bring in the local authorities perhaps. But if you want to give us consent.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Well, if we have to do it, if we have to get a search warrant on the local side because right now we don't have a federal nexus. We would have to bring in the locals in order to get a cert. The locals in Washington to do that. We don't have as much control, obviously it's the local system over that as we would if it's the federal system. So one of the things that we wanted to talk with you about today was related to the boat is. And I'm not asking you for names, dates, anything like that, but similar to what we did with the couriers, if we can talk about what happened or maybe where it happened, that could give us that federal nexus.

[Israel Keys]

Well, that's why I'm concerned because it all happened like right in Washington.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Okay, but there's national parks there, there's.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

A telephone, there's cross crossing state lines, there's people from different states. There's a million ways to get federal.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Jurisdiction using somebody's car.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm personally not that concerned about federal jurisdiction, but obviously we would need details to know that.

[Israel Keys]

You're making this sound a lot easier than when we were talking about the couriers.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

No, it's some of the same stuff.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What do you mean? What do you mean? I mean the couriers are federal jurisdiction, right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No.

[Israel Keys]

Well, that's what I thought at the time. But you kept the couriers.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, it's clear. Clearly federal bridge. So clearly federal Jurisdiction. That doesn't mean that Vermont, the way we dealt it doesn't mean. I mean, we've had bend over backwards and go crazy with Vermont because of the way we handle that. And we've gotten.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I know there's a lot of other people involved.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah. But we've gotten their assurances now. But those are going to run out, and I'm quite frankly, there's nothing they.

[Israel Keys]

Can do to me.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, they can charge you. Yeah, that's what you got one.

[Israel Keys]

Well, they're going to. To wait their turn, aren't they?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But that's what you don't want, right?

[Israel Keys]

Of course I don't want that. I don't want to go to freaking Vermont.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But anyway, the federal jurisdiction stuff can be handled. Obviously, we'll need some details. But if you've got a concern over federal jurisdiction, that's not a real concern in mind.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I. No, I am concerned about that. As far as the Washington stuff, I would only.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I would need a few more details, but I'm not that concerned about that.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I know, but from what, what Jolene is saying you need, there's already concerns for search warrants.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No, the reason I, the reason that she wants to get your consent is so that we don't go get a warrant. We don't know.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I already gave you. Yeah, search the boat. I mean, I already gave you consent to seize it. I didn't even know it was still mine, Honestly, I don't know. But I couldn't remember if I signed it over to him or not, so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, you know, we're going to do everything in a caution approach. Right. Regardless of who the owner is, we're going to come in here and, you know, we're going to ask you about it. So, you know, but if you use the cell phone, if you use a credit card, if you didn't, you know, there's lots and lots of ways to enter federal jurisdiction.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't. I mean, like I say, it got a lot more complicated in the last few years. Back then, I didn't really. I think it had a cell phone.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

But if it's jurisdiction that you're concerned about on some of this stuff, and I know that you don't want to talk about names, dates and all that kind of stuff, I think something to think about. We can talk about some of those things without getting into names and dates right now to see if we can kind of alleviate the concern about federal jurisdiction. Just some of the simple examples that we just threw out, you know, phones, the land that it happened on. Did you use their phone, car? I mean, we can come up, we can talk about that without getting into specifics of the. Of the case.

[Israel Keys]

No, there wasn't, there wasn't any of that.

[Agent Jolene Go]

National parks.

[Israel Keys]

I mean, I use their. There were a couple times that I.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Moved.

[Israel Keys]

You know, cars and stuff of theirs, but it's not like I kidnapped them or something.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Were they in the cars when you, when you moved them? Okay.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Did you do that to cover up the. Hide the crimes?

[Israel Keys]

Just to throw.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Throw it off for a while.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I mean. And did you use gun. Any firearms?

[Israel Keys]

I never shot any guns.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Use guns with me to threaten with guns?

[Israel Keys]

No, not only.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Brandished. I mean, at least did they know you had it.

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Use of any, any telephones, any interstate highways? Any.

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Israel Keys]

Well, technically there's no Witnesses. So I guess I could tell you I used a machine gun.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

But the truth is important.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

We have to.

[Agent Jolene Go]

We have.

[Israel Keys]

The truth is the truth. Until I. I never felt the need to have a gun out until I started, you know, like, taking people, because that was the only circumstance I thought I would have to actually use it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I thought there were two bodies in Washington that you took people.

[Israel Keys]

Right. But, I mean, feel. I needed a gun, but I had a gun. I just. I'm just saying I didn't have. I just changed the way I.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You didn't have to force them to get on the boat or they.

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm just. I'm just saying I had it. I mean, I used a knife mostly as a threat. I didn't. I had a gun. I just never felt the need. I would have used it, I guess, if things had got out of control.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

He had a gun.

[Israel Keys]

I just never. It wasn't the kind of situation where the person I felt I could. I wasn't outnumbered, and I definitely felt like a knife was plenty to.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You were not outnumbered.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But there were two people. Well, two different times.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay, so you weren't outnumbered any individual time. And were there, you know, if they were prostitutes or someone that you used the phone or an Internet to connect with, someone you would have called?

[Israel Keys]

No, I didn't use Internet back then at all.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Really. About a phone, landline or cell phone?

[Israel Keys]

No, no.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

You said you did move their cars.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, a car.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

A car that belonged to at least one.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Right.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

And the purpose just. We went through that fast. The purpose of moving the car. They weren't in the car. But it was to do what?

[Israel Keys]

Just to throw it off, Distance it or whatever. Just to.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Moved it away from a scene or something.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Get it farther.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Okay. These are the kind of things, though, that. As these cases come up and as we talk more about them, if. If it's helpful. I think it's probably helpful for you to the stuff in Washington you just talked about without giving us anything. But we can talk. We can identify the things that help make it federal and make it federal.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Necessity.

[Israel Keys]

I just don't think there's anything federal.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

We've already named a couple sounding like it. Yeah. What?

[Israel Keys]

Moving.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Having a gun, moving cars to cover up as part of that crime.

[Israel Keys]

I'm just saying that seems kind of. It's certainly not every crime that happens in one. I've never heard. I don't know. I don't know a lot about this, but I do read, and I'm saying that cases I've read about. It doesn't automatically. Because it rarely becomes federal. Just because there's a gun involved. Usually takes a lot more than that.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

It may not be charged federal, but it could go federal. I mean, think about the careers you have.

[Israel Keys]

I know you have the authority if you're. If you want to go after a case, and if locals don't put up resistance, then they let you go after kind of thing.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Right. Well, if we're bringing a case. If we bring the case. If we go.

[Israel Keys]

You bring all the information.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah. You don't have. They don't have anything without us. Without you and then without us. And so we break the case. It's just, you know, you don't. The FBI doesn't go around to local authorities and say, hey, we got all this great information. Why don't you take over now? Have you ever seen that on tv? Hey, we're the local county sheriff. We're in charge here.

[Israel Keys]

I'm not saying I suspect that. I just wasn't sure how much, you know, because some of this stuff is going to be in. It's not like they're Podunk police departments. They're, you know, so it's.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

They're not the FBI.

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm not.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I could see where the local DA or whoever might want to get a piece of me kind of thing.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know. That's why we get their assurance up front. We don't give them enough specifics. We say we've got somebody who can give information about the disappearance of this person. We give them a note that we can say this is the person who's disappeared and we give someone who can give information about that. But we need your assurances that here's what's going to happen.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I also have concerns about, you know, like, with Washington, it might be better if I talk to the locals.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

About this stuff, but we can arrange that, too.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Right.

[Israel Keys]

I know that. I'm just saying that's what I'm trying to figure out right now because. And I know, you know, it's tied directly to other stuff that's going on now as well. So it's really hard for me to get a straight answer on any of this stuff. I'm just in my own mind wondering in the long run, if it ends up going on the long run, if it wouldn't be better for me to deal with the locals in Washington. That's all.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, you can. Hold on. I mean, we can Decide that later.

[Israel Keys]

Right, right.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I mean, if we knew the names of people in Washington, we can decide later whether to bring the local authorities in on that or not.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Or if we knew the name of the person in New York, we could decide later whether to bring the local prosecutors in on that or not. But anytime we could do worries about New York. Put. Well, if you're not worried about New York, if you can give us the.

[Israel Keys]

Name in New York. No, I'm saying that you already have information on New York. You already know stuff happened there.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, I just meant the name of the person so that we can actually identify specifically enough to say we're not going down the wrong trail and we're not wasting people's time.

[Agent Jolene Go]

What in New York, in your mind, makes it a federal case that you did?

[Israel Keys]

Well, kidnapping from one place. I mean, that's my understanding. If you take someone and put them in a car or boat or whatever and move them from point A to point B, that's kidnapping.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yes, federal jurisdiction. But, I mean, if we had the name, we could save us and everybody. We have to.

[Israel Keys]

I know. I'm gonna give you the name. I'm just saying I don't have the stuff I want for it yet.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But that's what I don't get. We're all working on the same end here. There's nothing I can turn around and give you other than to move quickly, which is what I've been doing, except for this Plan A and Plan B, which is 33 days old. All right. Now, I'm not supposed to give you a pen, but we'll pretend. I need something to write on this. Plan A and Plan B, so that when we meet next time.

[Israel Keys]

I know. What is that? Like this one?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Is there something called. That's Plan C. I think we will leave that off. This was the plan we thought we were on, which was moving this thing forward. Plan B was the plan that we're going to be here.

[Israel Keys]

No, Russo's plan was you keep giving us information and we keep you out of the media. Look, as much as I appreciate being kept out of the media as much as possible, that's. That's not really much of a trade off for me because I don't even have anything happening with me for the next several months. You know that I don't get any straight answers on anything.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, I'm going to give you straight answers about what I can talk to you about.

[Israel Keys]

I know, and that's what I'm saying. That's the problem.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So we've still got a bunch of other crimes that ultimately have to be resolved before.

[Israel Keys]

No, they don't. That's my point. They don't have to be resolved. If I don't get what I want, then they won't be resolved. The problem is, if I start talking now and you get your information, and then I stop getting what I want, and I'm left to rot somewhere. Do you think, like, you really think I'm gonna be able to say, oh, wait, I forgot to tell you this one.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Really?

[Israel Keys]

I don't have anything to break arguing with at that point. Well, I don't. I don't have enough two things. You already have your names. You already have suspicions. I'm already locked up forever, so you have no I. You have no incentive to do anything for me.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Two things in response to that. One is if you've only given us 10 or 15%, you can give us, you know, another percent, another body. And we know there's a lot more to give, so you're not putting yourself in this position of playing all your cards. That's one. The second is, don't you think things would move a lot more quickly on other crimes if we actually knew the full extent? I mean, I think if you.

[Israel Keys]

How can they move more quickly when they're not moving quickly on what I have right now?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

That's a different matter.

[Israel Keys]

It's not different. It's the same to me. I'm still the one who's in solitary 23 hours a day.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So. You can be charged with the courier's case as an example.

[Israel Keys]

I know that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

But it's not like they're going to extradite me anytime soon.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, you could be charged state or federal.

[Israel Keys]

What's the point? They're still up to extradite me. I'm just saying I'm not going anywhere.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

You can be charged here with that, too.

[Israel Keys]

Really?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah. You left here and committed a federal crime in another jurisdiction. There's something called the Travel act when you travel from one place to another.

[Israel Keys]

I just fail to see what incentive you have to charge me with that.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, right now, as long as we're communicating, I don't think you know. But you're just saying you're trying to focus it all on one thing that we can't talk about. And we're talking about all these other crimes is what we're here about. No, I'm not.

[Israel Keys]

I'm not trying to focus it all on the one thing. I'm just saying all these other things. All the other Crimes I've committed that are there's still directly related to my bottom line, even if they're not related to anybody else's.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No, they are. They are too. The bottom line, if you wanted to move quickly. You want him to get a death penalty sentence.

[Israel Keys]

Did you find out where. How that works? When was the last death penalty? Federal death penalty case. I don't hazard.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Than did one.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, you said you were gonna find out, like, what the. Well, because I didn't have access to any of this information.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, we kind of got side. I think we kind of got sidetracked in a bunch of other issues. Was that right before the courtroom?

[Israel Keys]

Right. No, I know. Yeah, there's been a few distractions, but yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Which. Who created those? Let's take a look.

[Israel Keys]

I already said.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So.

[Israel Keys]

You can't really blame me, all right? It's my fault. But you already knew anything.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I can't blame you. Okay?

[Israel Keys]

This is gonna be my fault. It's not like I'm gonna get away with anything at this point.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

We were just going around seeing why it was taken so long and where we got derailed.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, but you know, this is just us shooting the breeze about federal death row facilities and recent cases. Doesn't have to have anything to do with anything else. And like I say, if I had Internet access, I'd look it up myself.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Anyway, I was just pointing out where I think we got sidetracked from that issue a while back.

[Israel Keys]

But.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So what. What specific things are you willing to give us today to move the ball forward? Yeah, today nothing.

[Israel Keys]

I never said I was gonna give you anything today. Jeff here hijacked me after I was sitting in a freaking holding cell for like two hours or anything.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No, no one ever said. I just. No one ever said you were going to.

[Israel Keys]

Right? Least of all me.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm just asking in the name of Luke. Things forward.

[Israel Keys]

Believe me, I'm all about moving things forward. Don't really feel like they are.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I.

[Israel Keys]

Like I say, I was just blindsided very recently with some information and I have not got anything back on it.

[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Julian Edelman]

And players love them. Did you know teams crush over 80, 000 uncrustable sandwiches a year? They know it's good.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's a snack that can go with you anywhere from the couch to the tailgate or even in the locker room. Soft bread. Yummy fillings. Protein packed. Once it's part of your ritual, you.

[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

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[Israel Keys]

And I just have a lot of frustrations right now that don't have anything to do with you. But they have a lot to do with me. So I've got to figure out what we do about them.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

We? We.

[Israel Keys]

Yes. Well, we all have to be involved. But just.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Look, I'm not asking you about anything but what we're talking about in this room. I'm also asking you not to. I'm asking you to deal with us. Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

So whip out the paperwork. Let's go.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I got my paper right here.

[Israel Keys]

You know that's not the one I'm talking about.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I Israel Keys. I'm looking for a way that I can move forward and I can get these agents and officers to be able to move forward.

[Israel Keys]

You have the planning room. If you want busy work, you've got plenty of room.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

No, not busy work. I want real, real work. That, yeah, is going to keep us busy. But it's busy now instead of busy a year from.

[Israel Keys]

I give you all the information. Not all have anything.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

What would you. Not all. Don't give me everything. I mean, I've been thinking pretty reasonable about saying I don't want. Don't give me everything. Hold back, but give me something that's of use. I mean, it's fun to sit here and chat, right?

[Israel Keys]

But you know, it's not really that fun.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, now you're insulting us.

[Israel Keys]

Not really. I'm just saying it's not really. It's fun if we get stuff accomplished.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I guess that's what I meant was being sarcastic.

[Israel Keys]

If I had it my way, I would keep all my little stories to myself. But I already know that nothing's going to happen the way I want it to if I do that. That's just the way it is. And I already know that there's already too much information out. Things are going to be the way they are. That's fine. But it's only fine if I.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Work.

[Israel Keys]

Everything to my advantage as much as possible at this point. But if I had it my way, we wouldn't be talking again.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Hope, I thought earlier he's said that we were, you know, we were going to be talking. It was just about when.

[Israel Keys]

Well, we were going to be talking because I'm not a patient person and I expect these things to move more quickly than they have been. I'm just saying if I was a patient person, I would prefer to keep everything to myself.

[Agent Jolene Go]

But you still do you see that what coming out, what being out there? Reality and actuality are better than innuendo and people's imagination.

[Israel Keys]

No, not in my case.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

My life's that.

[Israel Keys]

Well, that's another reason I'm willing to keep talking. Because I expect you, anyone investigating these cases, to keep the details and the interviews that we've done confidential and certainly out of the media. I mean, that's kind of the premise I'm working on is, you know, I'll give you all the details.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

And a.

[Israel Keys]

Lot of them, you know, you're least on the more recent stuff, you know, you find out for yourself, whatever, I'll give them to you.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

But.

[Israel Keys]

That'S just the understanding that I don't, you know, don't want it to become public. Acknowledge. That's fine. I'm charged with murders. Whatever the rest of the stuff, I'd rather not come out.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

So what should we do to get to that point?

[Israel Keys]

I'm going to set up a meeting, I guess. Apparently I'll have to threaten people to my limited capacity.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't like the idea of threats and I don't want to get involved in that. But if there's. If you want us to make a request.

[Israel Keys]

You'd be surprised how hard it is to fire a free lawyer.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I'm not involved in that. But if you want me to request. If you want me to request a meeting. You know, I think I'm not going to talk to you unless everybody's here about anything else. Unless everybody's in agreement on it.

[Israel Keys]

Right. If I had it completely my way, then we wouldn't have to go through this whole spiel at all every time. I'm already convinced that from what's transpired over the last few months, that the only way I'm probably gonna get what I want is by working with you and with whoever is investigating me and everything else that's going on has just become a distraction and one, not a roadblock, but like one pothole after another, and it doesn't seem to matter what I say. On the other hand, Like I say, it's more complicated than I thought to resolve those issues, so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay, well, I'm gonna. I'll be here this week, and then I'm gone for a few weeks. All right? These guys will be around, but if you're looking to talk to me about something, I won't be around for a few weeks.

[Israel Keys]

There will be somebody here, Somebody who can make decisions or whatever, or are you the only one who can make decisions?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Well, they can talk to me, but I think it's. I'm just telling you I'll be here this week. If there's something you want to talk to me about this week. Right.

[Israel Keys]

I'm saying if it can't. If it doesn't happen till early next week or something, then sure. Is that still doable, or does it have to be? I'm just saying, if you're not here, you say you're not here next.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

If there's something significant, then they. And get a hold of me again. All right.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Do you want to come to that or you want to wait?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah. You want some lunch?

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm fine.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So you want a candy bar? I might have, yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Let's take a break.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Like that anyway.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Finish your bagel?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Too much of a sugar rush out there.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

You can get commissary inside, can't you?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Do they have those?

[Israel Keys]

No, not those.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Okay, so that's a big deal still.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

All right.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

I brought in, you said you would give us consent to search the boat.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

And then one minute it's still mine.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

I don't know if it's yours or not, but.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

One thing that I wanted to clear up. You mentioned we were talking about federal nexus, that you moved a car. Was that in one or in both? Again, without details. I'm not asking you, obviously, where or anything like that.

[Israel Keys]

That was in one.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

All right.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

This is the right Foot we're talking, right? The Bayliner 82.

[Israel Keys]

Bayliner, yeah.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Actually, Jeff, if you want to jump into that and I can finish filling this out, this is.

[Agent Jolene Go]

I don't think it'll be a big deal to you. We talked a little bit a while ago about the North Polk river and Eagle river, and you said that you had either just stuck something in the weeds or something there. Some Drano on a shovel and some.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Would you be able to point out on that?

[Israel Keys]

It's not on this picture, but yeah, I could find it.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Agent Jolene Go]

It's out of that picture, is it?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah. Which room?

[Israel Keys]

It's up this way a little bit. Okay. That's where I was.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You said by the outhouse, I thought. Because that's where the bathroom's.

[Israel Keys]

No, that's where I was staked out.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Oh, I see. Okay. You were staked out here.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So is it.

[Israel Keys]

Ozone site was further up the road.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Further up Eagle River Road.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. And how far this goes back to.

[Agent Jolene Go]

This is the entrance into the. How far past the entrance?

[Israel Keys]

Less than a quarter mile, I think. How far into the woods? Just right off the road on this.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Side of the road on the right hand side.

[Agent Jolene Go]

You think it's still there? You think maybe it was found by cleanup crews or.

[Israel Keys]

No, it's probably still there.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Is it above ground, buried?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it's above ground.

[Agent Jolene Go]

So this tree line continues. Is it in that tree? Right in that tree line?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it's. There's a drainage ditch alongside the road. There's a small out of service road that branches off where they put. They pushed up a big berm entrance. And the stuff is stashed in the trees right next to that berm.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Okay. Is it just in a bag or.

[Israel Keys]

I think the Drano. Yeah, it was in some of those big garbage bags. And then there was a shovel too, stashed with it.

[Agent Jolene Go]

If I can't find it just by looking, would you mind show it to me on map next time?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I mean, I can show you now if you have a Google map, but we can do it next time.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Do you think I'm going to be able to find it based on what you just told me?

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

If I remember correctly, if you just.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Follow.

[Israel Keys]

You drive past that gated entrance, you keep watching the right hand side of the road, there's going to be access to a guy's cabin or something, like a chained private property access. And then the first road that branches off, it's not even really a road. It's like an old overgrown path that they Burned up. The first one of those, you see, right after that, chained access is going to be that ditch where I had in mind to. That I had in mind to use.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

I imagine the stuff is still there.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

I was thinking I had to write more on here than I do. This just says you've been asked by us. Complete search of a Bayliner. Your Bayliner boat's located in Washington right now. Advised of you. Right. You can refuse this consent. You get this consent voluntarily. Take any items which are determined related to their investigation. Sign right there. You want a copy of this? Okay. Anything else I mentioned on this?

[Israel Keys]

I don't think so.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Any questions for us or questions about this?

[Israel Keys]

No. Okay.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Any specific request on us coming over.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Again, or do you care what's next in your mind?

[Israel Keys]

I guess.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Is that something you're going to request?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I'm going to have to.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Yeah, we're going to get that done before the end of the week.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. Some of the stuff. Some of the stuff isn't coming in until Friday, so. But I've got a. I've got a list started. And then there's, of course, the other issues that I just found out about yesterday, so.

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Okay. Well, if you want to meet on other issues, I'm available to do that.

[Israel Keys]

Up until Friday. Right. All right. Okay.

[AUSA Kevin Feldes]

Want us to keep that till next time?

[Detective Jeff Bell]

Sure.

[Agent Jolene Go]

Give us just a second to get people rounded up here, and then we'll.

[Israel Keys]

All right.

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[Julian Edelman]

Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings I've got my game day ritual, coffee, lucky socks, and now New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches.

[Rob Gronkowski]

It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new Uncrustables Bright Eyed Berry or Up and Apple flavors.

[Julian Edelman]

Bright Eye Berries got a feisty receiver.

[Rob Gronkowski]

Energy up an apple. Your classic Do it all tight end.

[Julian Edelman]

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[Rob Gronkowski]

Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the MVP of snacks.

[Julian Edelman]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with New Morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein.