July 12, 2012, part 1

Summary

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True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation

Episode: July 12, 2012, Part 1

Release Date: June 15, 2026

Host: Studio BOTH/AND
Focus: Detailed FBI interrogation of serial killer Israel Keyes, exploring his methods, motivations, caches, and personal history.

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Episode Overview

This episode presents an unfiltered look at a pivotal FBI interrogation session with Israel Keyes on July 12, 2012. The conversation, primarily between investigators and Keyes, delves into Keyes' criminal processes, hidden caches ("buried treasures"), strategy around burglaries and robberies, his interactions with law enforcement, and the psychology behind his crimes. Personal details about his preferences and habits, and candid reflections on his sense of identity, are revealed. The overall tone is clinical, investigative, and chillingly mundane, punctuated by Keyes’ unsettling calm and frankness.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Procedural Formalities & Setting the Scene

• Timestamps: 01:17–03:00
  • Interrogators begin with standard Miranda rights.
  • Keyes confirms understanding and waives right to have counsel present.
  • Administrative note about boat registration—demonstrates focus on evidence and detail.
  • Notable Moment: The investigators’ relaxed, almost routine approach to Keyes contrasts starkly with the content to unfold.

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2. Boat & Evidence: Forensic Clarifications

• Timestamps: 03:15–08:30
  • Investigators question Keyes about specific details on his boat, seeking help locating potential trace evidence (e.g., blood, ropes, tools).
  • Keyes provides specifics, e.g., where blood might be ("...along these trim pieces like underneath them." — Israel Keyes, 05:03).
  • The investigators note the unusually well-kept upholstery, prompting Keyes to discuss refurbishing the boat.
  • Key Insights:
    • Keyes’ attention to detail in both his crimes and personal possessions.
    • Willingness to assist in investigations up to a point, often matter-of-fact.

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3. Preparation & Planning: Caches and Stakeouts

• Timestamps: 08:58–13:54
  • The “Eagle River” site is discussed—Keyes confirms details about digging, using pre-existing features for concealment, and plans to use metal sheeting.
  • He describes staking out the area, using a bike to avoid vehicle detection, and abortive attempts at crime due to low opportunity.
  • Quote: “I parked the vehicle down the road by the nature center and then I rode my bike back down. That’s why all that stuff was stashed there ahead of time, because I didn’t want to have my car in the area.” — Israel Keyes, 11:13
  • Keyes describes nearly acting but declining when two people (instead of one) became potential victims.
  • Discussion of other locations, like Point Warren, with similar reconnaissance but no follow-through.

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4. Buried Caches: The ‘Treasure’ Motif

• Timestamps: 13:57–18:06, 21:35–25:40
  • Keyes and investigators speak in code and inside jokes around “buried treasures”—weapon and money stashes.
  • Investigators ask about “five-gallon buckets,” specifically orange Home Depot-style, often associated with his caches.
  • Keyes confirms he never buries loaded guns, referencing the mechanical issue with springs.
  • Quote: “People like buried treasure and somebody might find one of those someday and think it’s their lucky day and they hit the mother loads... of things it would be their lucky day.” — Israel Keyes, 16:53
  • Keyes describes how sometimes, cache-making began as a childhood fantasy: “I figured, well, if I can’t find it, I might as well create it.” — Israel Keyes, 17:48
  • Texas cache specifics: Keyes describes burying money quickly at a rest stop and his paranoia about being searched at airports.

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5. Sexual Behavior, Prostitution, and the Role of the Internet

• Timestamps: 25:40–38:08
  • Investigators probe Keyes' history with sex workers, from Montreal to Tel Aviv, and up through Anchorage.
  • Keyes admits to using both phone books and, more recently, online sources like Craigslist and Backpage.
  • Quote: “Seems like every time I use computers, I get busted, so... By somebody who wasn’t supposed to see it, put it that way.” — Israel Keyes, 27:39
  • Admits to using a personal rating system for phone numbers when seeking sex workers.
  • He discusses preferences changing over time, lack of regulars, and confirms that these sexual encounters sometimes “delayed or satisfied” violent impulses but were not a substitute.
  • Quote: “That’s, you know, it’s a good outlet, but it’s not the same. It’s anonymous.” — Israel Keyes, 34:55
  • When pressed on whether he practiced violent acts or rope work with sex workers, Keyes responds it was “nothing really elaborate.”

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6. Target Selection: Cemeteries, Church Sites, and The Role of Setting

• Timestamps: 38:09–43:52
  • Discussion of why Keyes scouted cemeteries in Texas; he describes looking for “practical, remote” places, sometimes using maintenance sheds for privacy.
  • Rejects any symbolic significance: “Well, had more to do with practicality than any kind of preference on my part.” — Israel Keyes, 41:40
  • He notes the appeal of cemeteries is the plausible reason for being there if questioned.
  • Love of remoteness and his “morbid fascination” with cemeteries, but for crime, “convenience” trumps symbolism.

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7. Interactions with Law Enforcement & Avoidance

• Timestamps: 43:53–46:41
  • Keyes details his tactics for blending in (licenses, gear) when questioned at trailheads or in the woods.
  • His childhood history of stalking and watching people unseen during outdoor excursions is described, dating back to age thirteen.
  • Quote: “Either fishing or out hunting... I can remember doing that from time I was like 13 or 14 years old.” — Israel Keyes, 46:44

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8. Criminal Psychology: Influence and Self-Reflection

• Timestamps: 48:12–54:43
  • Investigators discuss Keyes’ reading habits; his earliest exposure to true crime was John Douglas’ "Mindhunter."
  • Keyes admits to identifying with some serial killers (notably Ted Bundy) but stresses no single close parallel.
  • Quote: “The first book I read was... ‘Mindhunter’... I was, yeah, somewhat disturbed by it, just because... It’s always felt like I was kind of reading about myself in a lot of those books.” — Israel Keyes, 50:17
  • He outgrew feeling conflicted by his dark thoughts in his 20s, accepting his difference from others.

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9. Burglaries, Robberies, and Escalation

• Timestamps: 54:43–64:05
  • Keyes draws a connection between his enjoyment of violent crime and the thrill of robberies/arson—“get the same adrenaline rush off of that kind of thing.”
  • Confirms a close call with law enforcement during a Tupper Lake bank robbery, recounting his evasive maneuvers and observing law enforcement reaction.
  • Comments on how security technology (video cameras) changed his ability to remain undetected.
  • Describes his burglaries as methodical, often taking only guns, jewelry—motivation not always about need (“just for old times’ sake”).
  • Quote: “That’s because when I go in to do a burglary, I don’t go in to do it like most people do. I go in loaded for bear, so to speak, hoping there’s gonna be people there.” — Israel Keyes, 60:03
  • He admits not always stealing, sometimes just enjoying the intrusion.
  • Investigators probe whether he ever waited in houses to observe victims; Keyes admits to doing so only in the woods, not inside homes.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On caches: “I always used to dream that I’d find buried treasure. And I figured, well, if I can’t find it, I might as well create it.” – Israel Keyes (17:48)
• On his use of sex workers: “I wasn’t calling them because I was thinking I was gonna kill one of them.” – Israel Keyes (34:09)
• On how he feels reading about other killers: “It’s always felt like I was kind of reading about myself in a lot of those books. Not the myself that everybody knew.” – Israel Keyes (50:17)
• On burglaries: “That’s because when I go in to do a burglary, I don’t go in to do it like most people do. I go in loaded for bear...” – Israel Keyes (60:03)
• On planning and avoidance: “You have to take somebody by surprise. I don’t know why. Feels like it’s like when I start talking to people and I go into a different mode. Like I want to be their friend or something. But obviously if I have already decided to take somebody, then I’m not their friend.” – Israel Keyes (44:51)

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Key Takeaways

• Clinical Honesty: Keyes is notably direct, uncensoring about his process—from meticulous burial of cash and weapons to generalized musings about the psychology of his crimes.
• Planning & Flexibility: He exhibits strong operational security, improvising when necessary (e.g., using a bike to avoid car trace), and refuses symbolic meanings unless practical.
• Dual Life Awareness: He distinguishes between his “public” and “hidden” selves, reading about others with an eye for both similarity and tactical tips.
• Chilling Normalcy: The mundane, almost friendly tone of many exchanges underscores how easily Keyes compartmentalized his violence.
• Investigator Approach: The agents are measured, persistent, and at times bantering—leveraging familiarity and curiosity to elicit more from Keyes.

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This episode is a granular, unsettling journey through the mechanics and mindset of one of America’s most enigmatic killers, as told in his own unemotional words and those of the experienced investigators seeking the truth.

Transcript

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[TFO Jeff Bell]

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[Narrator/Announcer]

This is a studio both and production.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Date is July 12, 2012. Time is 10:05am Case number 306A.N. 15642. This will be a meeting with Israel Keys. Present will be myself and TFO Jeff Bell. Just us today. My coffee.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

All right, well, we have to go through all the same. I want to make sure, obviously I tape recorder running, that we didn't interrupt any lawyer meeting or anything like that when we came over to pick you up this morning.

[Israel Keys]

No.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Okay. I'm gonna redo your rights. You have the right to remain silent. You understand that? Yep. Anything you say can will be used against you in the court of law. Do you understand that? Yep. You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him present with you while you're being questioned. You understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent you before and during any questioning, if you wish. You understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You can decide at any time to exercise these rights and not answer any questions or make any statements. You understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You understand each of those rights I've explained to you?

[Israel Keys]

Yes.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Okay. Also have to remind you that we're here to talk about other crimes. If we talk about anything and nothing to do with Samantha Conan, we can't talk about Samantha Conan. You understand that?

[Israel Keys]

Yep. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You also have standby counsel, I believe, Rich Kirtner and possibly Jacqueline Walsh. Would you like either one of those attorneys present today?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

I think that's it. You probably know better if you forget anything. You probably know better than us. One thing I wanted to do before we jump into anything is I messed up the other day and I wouldn't. Well, I just wasn't as thorough as I should have been. And I want to add the bolt registration number on here.

[Israel Keys]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So I'm just going to add. So it's clear what bay liner we're talking about. And then I'll just have you initial it. And I'll put the plate number from the trailer too's the 12th and then I just have the initial buy over there. Just that I made the addition. With the boat. One thing I wanted to. We wanted to show you was a couple pictures. They had asked. I know you. When we talked to you about it before, I wasn't in here, but I think it was Jeff and Steve that were in here. You mentioned that there might be where there might be something. Some blood or something like that.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

She also didn't know how much of the motor was left.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That answers that question.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I knew I'd taken it apart.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

But if you can look at these and if you can see. Just maybe looking at them would refresh your memory about where something might be or you know what they should look for.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Doesn't really look in that bad of shape, does it?

[Israel Keys]

Concerns what saving me a day. Well, it's going to be in that engine. Well, yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Where is the top end of the motor?

[Israel Keys]

On this side. Okay.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Back in here.

[Israel Keys]

Anywhere on this side.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

My guess, if you find anything that's going to be along these trim pieces like underneath them or something.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

Because it got, you know, it got on the fiberglass. I cleaned it, but I don't know if I sure how well you cleaned it.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Where's the top end of the motor?

[Israel Keys]

It probably got junked. I remember I took it apart. Figure out what was wrong with the motor and I think by the time I figured out what was wrong with it, I decided the whole motor was going to be scrapped.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

It wasn't worth fixing.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. I think I just threw away all the parts I took off.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Anything in the boat. I don't. They haven't looked in any of the stuff yet to even know what's in here or what's in the tote or anything like that that would be there.

[Israel Keys]

The tote. I don't remember exactly what's in the tote. Underneath the tote, there's a removable floor panel where I used to keep concrete weights and stuff.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

And I would say any ropes or anything that are in the boat, I don't know, one of them's gonna be like a tow rope skiing. But there were. I know I had quite a few other ropes in there as well that I would use for anchor ropes and tying the boat up and stuff.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Any tools in the boat that you remember that would. We should be looking for.

[Israel Keys]

Anything else of interest is going to be in either those side pockets along the sides or in the glove. Glove box that I remember. I think there's. There's a lot of storage compartments all over the boat. So I don't remember what all is in them, but I know that there might be some knives in the glove box. There might be, you know, miscellaneous stuff like that that I just kept with the boat at all times.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay. What we can do also, if you're interested, is once they go through it, we'll have pictures of everything and we can show you that stuff too, if you. If that would be helpful. I'm sure it'd probably be helpful than trying to figure out what's in all this stuff when you can't see it. So we can do that.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. It doesn't look like anyone's been in there at all since.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I was surprised at how good the upholstery seems. Like it's in pretty good condition still.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, well, it was all brand new.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Oh, was it?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that whole boat was gutted before I rebuilt it, so.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So you rebuilt it like it doesn't look like a 1982 boat to me. That's why I was.

[Israel Keys]

Well, yeah, the interior was trashed when I got it. So it's all new seats and upholstery and everything.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That makes sense.

[Israel Keys]

And I think I had to replace some glass and I don't know, just the carpeting and all that stuff. I replaced the carpeting a couple times. At least on the back section.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Is that brand new carpeting on the back section now or is it something that should be looked at?

[Israel Keys]

Well, you might find stuff under the carpeting, but there was new carpet and then it got blown on it.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Got it. Okay. All right, that will be helpful. So again, do you want a copy of this? I asked you the other day, but now it changes. All right. We had a couple things, a few things we wanted to talk to you about today. I think Jeff mentioned kind of different than what the meetings. You know, our meetings normally are just some of. It's kind of follow up stuff to what you have talked about before, just making clarification kind of stuff and just wrapping some of that stuff up. And then just a couple new things. But Loki, nothing.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Just start with the Eagle River. Yeah, we got more photos.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

This place look familiar? Oops.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that stuff was still there. Huh.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

There's more pictures under there if you want to.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I'm sure. You saw that big ditch right next to there.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Did you dig that ditch or was that there?

[Israel Keys]

No, that was a burn. And that was my plan, was to use that because it was already dug, so I was gonna just have to fill it in. Right. There was a. There's a big metal plate down the road that I was gonna use to cover it once I buried it. Keep it from getting dug up.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Like a sheet metal?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, there was. Down by that other guy's driveway, there was a big pile of trash in the woods and there was a piece of metal that I was going to use to throw over it and bury it.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I tried to move that thing. I wasn't able to move it.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Oh, yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Well, it was thin piece of metal,

[Israel Keys]

but there was lots of buried and

[TFO Jeff Bell]

shit on it then like some countertops and stuff in there. And so this. I mean, it's still there, but it's. Was this time frame, if I remember right from our interview, is this like the May 2011 timeframe?

[Israel Keys]

Yep.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Prior to. Just prior to the couriers.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And so with this thing, I guess I misunderstood when we were talking about it earlier, if you wouldn't mind explaining again, what was the. This was. Was this place open? Like the gates were open continuously? There's no snow. When you put this.

[Israel Keys]

The Eagle River. Yeah. At the parking lot there. Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Because it's May sometime. Is it early May?

[Israel Keys]

It was open. Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Was there snow on the ground?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

No.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Okay, and you think it was.

[Israel Keys]

No, there wasn't much snow that year, but there wasn't a lot of traffic there. And I staked it out for a couple nights, but I think there was only one or two cars that came by.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And when you staked it out, did you park your vehicle there or park it somewhere else?

[Israel Keys]

No, I parked the vehicle down the road by the nature center and then I rode my bike back down. That's why all that stuff was stashed there ahead of time, because I didn't want to have my car in the area.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And how many days or nights or whatever did you.

[Israel Keys]

I think I was up there for two or three nights. I didn't stay all night.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Just till after dark and just There wasn't much traffic there, so an opportunity never arose.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, there was only one. There was only one time that I almost did it, but there was. It was two people and it would have been a lot of work. I kind of changed my mind on that. Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And then during this time frame, this is also the time frame you talked about. Point Warren's off or out in that area, right?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Right after you built the Silencer.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that was. I think I went up to Eagle river after that incident because. A lot of police driving around Anchorage after dark, so.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And. And the timeout at Point Warren's off. How late was that? When that. I mean, how was it?

[Israel Keys]

11 o'?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Clock? It was about 11 o'.

[Israel Keys]

Clock, yeah. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And you think that was mid. How far before you left for. He left on June 3rd to go to Vermont. How many days or weeks was that before that?

[Israel Keys]

It would have been in May sometime. Probably mid May. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And do you know for sure if it was an APD officer or was it airport?

[Israel Keys]

It was two of them. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Definitely not airport police.

[Israel Keys]

No, I'm pretty sure I saw their car. I think it said it had the big. It may have been an airport police if their cars looked the same, but I don't know. It looked like APD to me.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Do you remember what kind of car was there, other than the police car? What car were you watching?

[Israel Keys]

It was a Subaru station wagon, I think.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

What color?

[Israel Keys]

Navy blue or darker maybe.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Any more of these in Anchorage area?

[Israel Keys]

No. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And maybe not specifically like this. Is there any underground? I know how sometimes you like to be somatic about questions and not specific enough.

[Israel Keys]

There is nothing exactly like that.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Is there a five gallon bucket somewhere?

[Israel Keys]

Orange? I already told you I might need those again someday.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[TFO Jeff Bell]

We just, you know, I mean, I know you don't. I just don't want somebody else. I know. In one of our conversations you made a comment about how people like buried treasure and somebody might find one of those someday and think it's their lucky day and they hit the mother loads

[Israel Keys]

of things it would be their lucky day.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

What's in it?

[Israel Keys]

Well, different things but you know, bank money. It's nothing that will get them into trouble.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So no loaded guns?

[Israel Keys]

No, I don't. I don't bury them loaded. I don't even think I usually bury them with the magazines loaded. I did that once and then the springs were all screwed up after that.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

We like buried treasures also. We kind of had fun with it. So we were looking for something else to do with just kind of off task. I mean, it's not giving up much, but it's something for us to do.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

I think you told us that once before. Everybody likes a buried treasure.

[Israel Keys]

They do. That's why I started burying stuff

[TFO Jeff Bell]

when

[Israel Keys]

I was a kid. I always used to dream that I'd find buried treasure. And I figured, well, if I can't find it, I Might as well create it.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What about outside of Anchorage? Do you have other. Do you have stuff like this outside of Anchorage? Anywhere else in Alaska?

[Israel Keys]

Oh,

[TFO Jeff Bell]

it was something to do.

[Israel Keys]

You guys have lots to do.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

True. But this weekend, this is a little more fun, actually.

[Israel Keys]

We just want to get out in the woods.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

The weather's so nice up here. We like to spend time outside.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it is. And you should all take field trip.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Although the mosquitoes were kind of bad.

[Israel Keys]

Stuff like that, I normally don't. I only left that stuff there because I was planning on using it eventually. I normally don't like to. I didn't really consider that littering, though, because I figured I'd be back to clean it up pretty soon.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you go back to that spot at all after you put it out there? Like between after you left for the couriers in June to when you got arrested? Had you been back there to look at that stuff or to move it or.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I've been back up there.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

To make sure it was still there or to do more knobs?

[Israel Keys]

Well, no, just looking out, checking out the area, I. I could tell it was still there just by driving by. Seems like I could see. Seems like I. Yeah, I remember I looked. Slowed down and looked back in the woods and saw the bag a couple times. I didn't figure it would go anywhere because it wasn't really close to the road, so.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Just take it out. Any more times after that?

[Israel Keys]

Not. Not officially. I just would hang out up there for an hour or two here and there just to see what kind of traffic there was.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Any. Any other places around here that you

[Israel Keys]

did that kind of thing?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I mean, the stakeout, looking at trailheads or whatever, not having the equipment there.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, yeah, well, there was. I used to go up to Ekalutna quite a bit,

[TFO Jeff Bell]

But the hiking, it's up there.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, the lake and stuff. I had. I was planning on doing a kayak trip up there eventually.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Did you have kayaks?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I had a kayak. Well, mostly Kimberly's kayak, but I would use it quite often. Best thing in lieu of a motorboat. Actually, better than a motorboat because that motorboat, that bayliner of mine, it broke down in the middle of the lake. That was a long paddle to get it back to shore. Kayak's a lot faster.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah. Especially if it's windy or you have any type of weather with that big of a boat.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So no other buried treasures you'd like

[Israel Keys]

to share with us? No, not yet. That one wasn't buried treasure. I Was just feeling bad about leaving it out there.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You just wanted it cleaned up?

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah. An environmental thing?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Does that mean she don't want to give up the bucket in Texas?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Well, if I get close to where it's at, would you?

[Israel Keys]

There's not a tracking device on it.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Doesn't sound like you're able to.

[Israel Keys]

No, I have a pretty good memory. I can point it pretty good cash places. I have a good memory when I need to.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

If we came close to where one was, would you tell us?

[Israel Keys]

I don't. I don't know what you mean.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Like, if we were able to tell you an area that we're pretty sure there's one in, would you tell us?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I assume, you know I've been kind of all over the place when I do go places. I don't know what you consider close, like state.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

No, no, no. I mean, just deducting where things. Especially just in Texas, because we have a little more information on specifically where you were at in Texas through cell phone towers and those kind of things. Like when you left to Dallas to drive to Houston after the bank and Nazelle, you didn't drive 45 straight to Houston, And you had to do something with that money from Azell because when you came back, you had the money with you. So you picked it up down there, Didn't have it in your suitcase and get all moldy and wet?

[Israel Keys]

Well, that was just the small bills,

[TFO Jeff Bell]

so the 20s are still in a bucket there.

[Israel Keys]

On that route, small bills are a nuisance. People nervous when you pull out a huge wad of small bills.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And you didn't leave it in the Dallas area because you weren't planning on going back there. You knew your mom was going to be going down to Wells.

[Israel Keys]

No, the money was moldy because it wasn't really. I didn't even know if I was gonna go back to get it. I just. I just buried it and figured if I make it back, get it, if I don't, there's only a few hundred bucks? I think so.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So you've only got a buried treasure of a few hundred bucks that somebody might find there?

[Israel Keys]

What, in Texas?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Mm.

[Israel Keys]

No, I. I'm saying the money, it was. It was buried right by the airport. Just because I didn't want to risk TSA finding it in my carry on and asking questions. I don't know. A little overly paranoid maybe, but.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So then when you flew back down there, you only took the small bills back out and left the bigger bills?

[Israel Keys]

No, the bigger bills I kept Separate from the small ones. The small one, yeah. They were just. They were just wrapped up in a bag. I didn't even really dig a hole. I just stopped at a rest stop, went behind a tree, kicked some dirt out of the way, dropped the bag in it, kicked some dirt over it and left.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And it was still there.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Nobody wants to pick up trash.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

One of the things that I wanted to go back to was something we were talking about the other day, and just. It's not anything specific really, but you had mentioned that. And if my timing, if the dates are wrong on this, let me know. But you had mentioned that when you were in the military, when you were over in Tel Aviv, you'd gone to a couple prostitutes there, and that was when you were like in your 20s probably, right? Early 20s?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

I think it was about 20 at the time.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

When did the whole prostitute thing come into play for you? Was that it? Or did.

[Israel Keys]

Heck, that was it. No, Montreal.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So Montreal was before the military?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Well, that's the first time I'd gone was before, I think. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay. You've been to Montreal more than once then?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So. Was. Jump ahead now, Anchorage, is that. It's the process, visiting prostitutes, Is that something that you've continued to do over the years, including in Anchorage?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I mean, I've. I've done it over the years.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Do you usually.

[Israel Keys]

Something. I do all the time.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay. Is it something. When you. Is it something that you use the Internet for? Is it something that you do out to the street? I know there's not a lot of street walkers anymore. At least up here there are.

[Israel Keys]

And they're thanks to Craigslist.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yep, Craigslist and Backpage and a few others. But is Internet the way that you would usually find them or how would you.

[Israel Keys]

No, that was. I mean, really, I've only used computers for the last few years. I was always. Seems like every time I use computers, I get busted, so.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

By.

[Israel Keys]

By somebody who wasn't supposed to see it, put it that way.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You didn't figure out how to clear your history?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I got better at it, but I was so paranoid about it because it seems like. Damn. They would always pop up inopportune moments.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did Kimberly ever see that stuff?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, yeah. She saw stuff.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

We were together for a long time, so she saw. So I made my share of mistakes.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Which websites did you use the most? You mentioned Craigslist. That's the most popular, I think.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I would use. I would use the Internet or phone books to get lists of phone Numbers. And I would rate the phone numbers, and then I would just, you know, when I got to whatever area that I was going to do it in, I just call down the list of numbers until I got a hit on one.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

How would you rate it? What was the.

[Israel Keys]

I would rate it just based on. The vibe I got off of the ad or the description online. And then, you know, usually only about 25% of the numbers work, so I write down a lot of different numbers.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So would you actually call and talk to somebody and see what they had to say? And that would be part of the rating, too?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay, so with that in mind, The rating thing, tell me if that's what this means.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Figured it out.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Does that look familiar?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Is that what that is, the 1, 2, 3 rating system? Because we know that those are numbers and we know what those are numbers too, but. Okay, that makes sense what you're talking about with a rating system then. Did you call any of these?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Because this was from your trip.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Well, it was in the car.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

It was in the car. So it was on that when you're. When you were arrested.

[Israel Keys]

Right. That wasn't a for sure thing. That was just one of those things. If I had had the opportunity to go up there, I would have gone. It's not like I was gonna go for sure. And honestly, I probably wasn't going to go because the whole, you know, there was a lot of bullshit going on with my family there at the time. So I didn't want to. I just wanted to get out of there and just kind of wasn't really thinking about any of that stuff. So

[TFO Jeff Bell]

do you have cities or favorite or places to go? That or the prostitution stuff is easier or better or more. More of it. Vegas or anything like that?

[Israel Keys]

No, I don't actually like Vegas.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Why not?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, I don't know.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Too many people.

[Israel Keys]

Vegas is very predictable. Meet more interesting people and other people. Places.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

You don't seem like a big city person either.

[Israel Keys]

Only if I have to be. I can get around. I prefer more discreet locations.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

But you visited Montreal a lot when you were in upstate New York. Is that just because it was the closest big city or. Yeah, I mean, anything special? Attractions? Montreal. Montreal or Canada or.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, I like Canada. It's predictable. But no, I didn't have like a specific hotel or area I would go to. I just go to check it out.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you do in calls or out calls with the girls or with the prostitutes? Did you go to them? Do they come to you?

[Israel Keys]

I wouldn't do it. Unless they were willing to come to me.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay. What would you look for in a person or what would you be? What would you request?

[Israel Keys]

It would change all the time.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay, you didn't have a preference or.

[Israel Keys]

I always had a preference, but it would change every time. It was different preference. What was the preference I was in the mood for at the time? I guess.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What was the preference? You talked the other day, too, that you kind of have a preference, but then it doesn't. Nothing's really a deal breaker. But if there was a preference or kind of an ideal, what would it be?

[Israel Keys]

Well, it depends on the scenario. I don't know what you mean.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

The scenario that you're thinking of at the time.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And those changed is what you're saying?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah,

[Interviewer/Investigator]

yeah. I'm not even talking about murders or that kind of stuff. I was. The prostitutes is more of what I was getting at. I'm not getting into that. The other stuff that about. We're talking. Talking about the other day.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I'm sure you guys found my porn collection, so, you know, I have a wide range of tastes and it just varies.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay?

[Israel Keys]

It's. That's the way I am. I go like a year obsessed with one thing and then completely, completely drop it. And then the next year it's something else.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And the prostitution thing played that same. Played along that same thing.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I never really took the prostitutes that seriously because, I mean, I was never. I was. I mean, I was only calling them because they were prostitutes. I wasn't calling them because I was thinking I was gonna kill one of them.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you have any regulars?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Did the visiting the prostitute, did that sometimes work in lieu of or delay or satisfy you? Oh, yeah, at some point in time.

[Israel Keys]

So, yeah, that's, you know, it's a good outlet, but it's not the same. It's anonymous. And depending on. Depending on the prostitute, you can,

[Interviewer/Investigator]

you

[Israel Keys]

know, do a lot of different things. So

[Interviewer/Investigator]

were you. Were you into more S and M stuff? Type with the prostitutes? Type stuff with the prostitutes?

[Israel Keys]

Sometimes. Not.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Not necessarily. It wasn't always part of it.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that wasn't always the agenda.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you ever use ropes and that kind of stuff with the prostitutes as well, or practice any of that stuff with them?

[Israel Keys]

Not nothing real crazy, but yeah. I mean, nothing very elaborate, though.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So it wasn't like you had, you know, your rope set up and you would practice on them to make sure it worked the way you wanted it to work kind of thing. Not that elaborate. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You freak. A few of Them out. It sounded like you were talking about one the other day in Tel Aviv or somewhere that was mad at you for some.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Yeah, she was mad. I. I don't think. I don't think she was scared. I think she was just mad at me kind of thing.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Is she the one that kicked you?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Took extra liberties that you didn't pay for?

[Israel Keys]

I think she was mostly worried about going over her allotted time or whatever.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

She was.

[Israel Keys]

She was pretty small, little Russian girl, and she and I had been drinking, so, you know, I kind of threw her around a little bit. I didn't hurt her or hit her or anything, but I wasn't gonna let her run the show, I guess. And. Yeah, so she was a little bit annoyed with me, and she didn't speak English, so

[Interviewer/Investigator]

that would make things a little more difficult.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And you didn't speak Russian, so.

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you see. I don't know. I asked this before, and I don't know if we got off topic or if you just didn't answer. Did you see any prostitutes in Anchorage? Don't want to go there.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Okay. One of the things that was on your phone. There's a cemetery in Texas. Did you go to a cemetery in Texas?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Mm.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What was the cemetery about? One named Glenrose. Does that sound right?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I went to a few different cemeteries.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What did you go to the cemetery for? That's the picture that was on your phone.

[Israel Keys]

Is that on MapQuest or something there?

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

I think.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

You took a picture of your computer is what it looks like.

[Israel Keys]

Some problem with technology. You're depending on it. You can't think about it in your life. No, that was mostly. I was just looking for different places, convenient locations. Didn't. Yeah, I went to a lot of different places because. Because none of them really seem like they worked out. People are very nosy in Texas, so I wasn't. It took me a while to find anywhere that I felt comfortable.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Did you find that place?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I found a few different. I didn't take anybody on that trip, if that's what you're asking. That's what the thought process was. I didn't do it.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Why a cemetery? A disposal site? Cemetery or an abduction site?

[Israel Keys]

Not an abduction site. Just somewhere to take somebody.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So you take the cemeteries out, kind of like you talked about. Stuff taken out some of these other places?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I would go. A lot of those cemeteries have maintenance sheds and stuff that are usually pretty easy to get into, so.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And pretty remote. This one's in the middle of nowhere.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So is that similar to the thought where you were saying you were thinking about doing some of this stuff in churches? Would that have be the same opposite, maybe of doing it in cemeteries or. Why? Just for the remoteness of it or specifically because it's a cemetery?

[Israel Keys]

Well, Had more to do with practicality than any kind of preference on my part.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So there was no significance to a cemetery like there was to a church, like you had talked about before?

[Israel Keys]

Not really. I mean, I like cemeteries. I don't know beyond that. It's not really.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

No. The churches obviously had to do with the whole religious piece. But the cemeteries, there was none of that for you. It was just convenience, remoteness. You like them, you're right. That kind of thing.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Like them. Why you like cemetery, you think?

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. I just always have morbid fascination. Cemeteries. A lot easier to explain your presence there too, if someone happens to show up.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So you'd find that the stone of someone to pretend like you were there to visit.

[Israel Keys]

I mean, easier to explain than something.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So you're always thinking of that. You're always thinking of your. What you would say if you were to ask about your presence.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, It doesn't always work, so obviously you have to have a backup plan. But at least, like I say, cemetery, it's cemetery, campground, something like that. Public places easier to explain than private property.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you get questioned a lot? It kind of sounds like you were pretty good at picking places that. That wouldn't happen often.

[Israel Keys]

No, I got questioned casually a few times and it really felt like I was biped. Right. Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So did you ever get in a position where you were or start conversation with someone that you had thought about doing something, and then they, for whatever reason, you got a vibe from them that it wouldn't be a good idea or whenever you. Are you able to make a decision, as soon as you see it, you know, see the person.

[Israel Keys]

No, it always has to be, I don't know, as soon as someone talks to me and sees me, then that kind of puts it on a different spectrum for me. You have to take somebody by surprise. I don't know why. Feels like it's like when I start talking to people and I go into a different mode. Like I want to be their friend or something. But obviously if I have already decided to take somebody, then I'm not their friend.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

But you don't give them that chance either. It's not like they have casual conversation and then overtake them or something. Do you do that? So that there isn't anything personal up front.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. I hadn't really thought about it. It's just.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I think we already talked about this. But you were never questioned by law enforcement about why you were ever in any of these places or anything?

[Israel Keys]

Well, like I said, casually.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

By law enforcement.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Like they would see you at a trailhead and just small talk with you. Are you here to fish? Are you here to hike? Those kind of things. Let me see your fishing license.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Israel Keys]

And I usually had every. Yeah, I always had all that stuff. Honestly, a lot of times that's what I was doing.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

At first.

[Israel Keys]

Far back. Because I can remember it, you know, that's where I get a lot of the ideas. Either fishing or out hunting.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Thinking of them.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. Stalk me through the woods and see somebody in the woods. They don't see you sit there and watch them for a while. And I can remember doing that from time. I was like 13 or 14 years old.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Thinking you could

[Israel Keys]

just.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Or just the fact that you're able to watch them and they don't know you're watching them.

[Israel Keys]

Right. And then. Yeah, I don't know. I just. That's always. That was always the most comfortable scenario for me because it's win, win situation, out hunting or fishing. And if the opportunity comes up, then take it. If it doesn't, it's not like it's. You're out. Anything.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

You've talked before about, you read a lot and that's where you've gotten. You read about a lot of other serial killers and reading about other crimes and that kind of stuff might be a weird question, but who's your favorite? We've talked about it, so we're kind of curious. We're curious on who your favorite is.

[Israel Keys]

One of my favorite ones haven't been caught yet, so I guess I don't

[Interviewer/Investigator]

even know their names.

[Israel Keys]

That's a fair question.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That's actually good response. Okay. Of the ones who have been caught that you've been able to read about, we'll see who. Who was right or who was closest for.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know. I favor it. I don't really feel like I didn't. I don't if what I've read about them is accurate. I don't feel that close to any of them. So I guess I identify most. Or my favorite, if you have to put it that way, would be the ones that I identify most with.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah. So that's a fair way. Say it.

[Israel Keys]

I don't know, maybe just going off of what I've read Ted Bundy maybe. I don't know, just because I don't. I don't have a lot of respect for someone because. Because of the way they lived, I guess. I don't know. It's weird. I like reading about all of them, but that's why I identify with them.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

When did you start reading about them? When did you realize. I mean, did you start reading about them because you were curious about you, or did you. Was it a study guide, so to speak? I mean, that'd be a weird question, too. Did you learn things from. To do not do, or was it just curiosity of. Do you have anything in common with them is that you were looking for, do you think?

[Israel Keys]

Well, the first book I read was. I think it was called Mindhunter, and it was written by an FBI profiler, John Douglas.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. I read that years and years ago, probably when I was 15 or 16. And not. I was. Yeah. Somewhat disturbed by it, just because. I don't know. It's always been that way. It's always felt like I was kind of reading about myself in a lot of those books. Not the Myself that everybody knew. But, you know, what did that.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I mean, did that worry you, concern you, make you think it was.

[Israel Keys]

Well, at first, like I say, at first I was pretty conflicted about it. That was all just because of. The way I'd been raised and stuff. And, you know, I grew up with good people. I was never, you know, everybody's always nice to each other and everything's all sunshine and roses. And so that's why it was disturbing to me, because it seemed like for a long time I was the. I either thought everybody was. Everybody else was faking it, and everybody was like me. They just didn't act like it or I figured that I was. Demon child or whatever.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I don't know.

[Israel Keys]

But, I mean, all that went away when I was in my 20s. I didn't feel bad about it anymore. I just.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

You didn't feel bad that you were. That you had those thoughts?

[Israel Keys]

I knew that most people didn't think the way I did by then. I just didn't feel bad about thinking differently at that time.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Just kind of accepted that that's who you were and that's.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Do you know. So you said Ted Bundy, you kind of felt like maybe you had some things at least in common with or something. Do you know stuff about him? Do you.

[Israel Keys]

I know that he had a lot of. He was very sexually motivated in the stuff that he did, and I know that in the last few years, he had a really hard time controlling himself and separate. Separating his two lives, if you want to call it that. And I also identified with him because it seemed like. He was able to separate his two different. Two different aspects or whatever you want to call his personality.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Anything specific about his crimes?

[Israel Keys]

No, honestly, I. Like I said, I never really. From what I've read anyway, I never felt that close to any of them. I just saw similarities in all of them. Honestly, I've always kind of thought of myself as more like the bank robbery type, except for, you know, every once in a while I do it

[TFO Jeff Bell]

because

[Israel Keys]

I can get the same adrenaline rush off of that kind of thing. Or not even bank robbery, just, you know, any kind. Even like burglary and arson to a certain extent.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So safe to say probably then you've done more of those kind of crimes.

[Israel Keys]

Well done. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

I mean, is that. Is that a safe assumption?

[Israel Keys]

Those are practical crimes too, so.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Because lots of people do those.

[Israel Keys]

Well, they're practical because. Pretty easy to make money doing it.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Do you ever get close to being caught doing any of those. Any arsons or any bank robberies?

[Israel Keys]

I think so.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Which arson or bank robbery or bank robing?

[Israel Keys]

I think I got pretty close one time.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

What makes you think that?

[Israel Keys]

Actually, it was that one that you guys know about now, that one in New York, in Tupper Lake. Yeah, there was. I was leaving and there was a car that passed me and I knew it was a detective or somebody because they had a. They had a visor light or something, some kind of light. I knew it was a cop of some kind. Anyway, it wasn't like an official patrol car, but I think there were a couple people in was windy roads going through the mountains and stuff. And kind of on a hunch, I was thinking, well, because this was quite a while after the robbery, I was quite a ways from the scene. I was thinking, well, just in case they. In case they have a vehicle description or something, I better pull off the road. And there was a campground and I pulled off really quick and kind of backed into some trees and just sat there for a while and was counting money. And I think I saw the same car go back the other way, like it might have been looking for me. So I don't know if they. I don't even know if it was the same car. It went by really fast, but it looked like it could have been the

[TFO Jeff Bell]

same car, like fast, like it was trying to catch up to you.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I don't know for sure if they were but all the same, I think I sat there for quite a while, sat there for several hours and figured by then everybody who was going to be at the scene was going to be there. I remember reading about it a few days later. That one really freaked them out because it was such a small town. They locked all the schools and everything. Had SWAT teams patrolling the streets or whatever. But yeah, that was. I was thinking at the time, I was like, I'm just gonna hang out at this campground and count money and stuff.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And

[Israel Keys]

he stops by, I'll just act like I'm fishing and.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Did you have a fishing pole?

[Israel Keys]

I think I did on that trip. I don't think I had a license though. Not for you to take that ticket for that though.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah, probably.

[Israel Keys]

But.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Why do you think you were able to, in talking about the practical crimes, why do you think you were able to get away with so successfully with it sounds like you did a lot of bank robberies and burglaries and those kind of things.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, my days were numbered. Too many fricking videos cameras nowadays.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So times changed.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it was easy when all you had to worry about was fingerprints and witnesses and DNA. That stuff's all pretty easy.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

But you also had, depending on what you take, like if you commit a burglary, you still have to. If it's something, if it's not monetary, it's not money, you have to sell it or get rid of it or those kind of things. What did you. When you were doing burglaries, what kind of things did you take from houses? Well, besides people,

[Israel Keys]

for the most part, I. It's not like I needed the money.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So what was the motivation then for the burglaries if it wasn't

[Israel Keys]

just for old times sake?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Well, you said you get the same. They seem so different, but you describe them as kind of the same. The killings to robberies, burglaries, arsons, to some degree. I mean, they seem so different and far apart, but you seem to get some.

[Israel Keys]

That's because when I go in to do a burglary, I don't go in to do it like most people do. I. I go in loaded for bear,

[TFO Jeff Bell]

so to speak, hoping there's gonna be people there.

[Israel Keys]

No, not necessarily. Just knowing that if something happens, it's, you know, it's like if I ever got caught in the act doing anything, I'm not gonna go meekly away in handcuffs or whatever. I always went ready for whatever.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So what would your motivation be going in? What would you be looking for? What would you.

[Israel Keys]

Burglaries, I usually just do jewelry and guns. Small guns. Smallish.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So some of that. Are some of the guns that you still have in places, those guns, or did you always get rid of those?

[Israel Keys]

No, I didn't get rid of them because I was worried about them getting tracked.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So you keep them, but you don't keep them with you so that you're not caught with them. So you keep them in a cache somewhere and then use them when you need them.

[Israel Keys]

The statute of limitations, like five or seven years or something like that, I don't even know.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So you wait. I can't tell whether that's supposed to be a joke, charged with that or whether. So you hide them for the statute of limitations period before you use them.

[Israel Keys]

Makes it a lot less likely that they get tracked.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Was part of the burglary similar to what you. Similar, but different to what you talked about with the woods, where you're sitting there and you can watch people and they don't know you're watching them. Is it similar in a burglar because when you're in somebody's house, you're going through their stuff? Yeah, that same kind of sense that you get from them.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So would it be. Would you try to do it to where they didn't even know it happened or make sure they knew it happened? Like, I mean, breaking windows and breaking doors to go in or get in somehow on.

[Israel Keys]

No, it would depend. It would depend on situation, I guess more often than not. There was usually a lot of destruction, but sometimes I wouldn't. Sometimes I would just, you know, Sometimes I wouldn't take anything at all, necessarily. Maybe a few little things.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So destruction, like damage rather than destruction, like looking for stuff. Because a lot of burglars you go into, all the drawers are open, all those clothes are on the ground. Everything's been destroyed. Looking.

[Israel Keys]

I never did that.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So destroy. To destroy.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah. You like to watch people. Did you ever wait in a house and watch people or wait and watch people. People come back to see what the reaction would be?

[Israel Keys]

I would wait in the woods sometime. That was years and years ago, though.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Not wait in the house to watch for him to come back?

[Israel Keys]

Not. No, not burglaries. No.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That's getting on to other people. Crimes, I'm guessing by that reaction.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.