May 29, 2012

Summary

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True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation

Episode: May 29, 2012 | Released: April 21, 2026
Host: Studio BOTH/AND (Josh Hallmark)

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on a pivotal FBI interrogation with serial killer Israel Keyes, following recent developments in the investigation of his crimes in Vermont and New York. The conversation exposes ongoing legal negotiations between federal and state authorities, highlighting the delicate balance of gaining Keyes’ cooperation while minimizing media exposure. The episode offers a revealing look into Keyes’ motives for disclosure, his negotiation tactics, and the investigative strategies employed by federal agents seeking truth and closure for victims' families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Interrogation Begins

• Participants: Special Agent Steve Payne (FBI), TFO Jeff Bell, AUSA Frank Russo, and Israel Keyes
• Context: Keyes is brought from jail for a voluntary interview at the Anchorage FBI office, focused on cases unrelated to Samantha Koenig.
• Timestamps: [01:53] – [02:45]

Key Highlights

• Agent Payne confirms Keyes’ rights (Miranda warning, legal counsel, voluntariness).
• Immediate focus on Vermont developments.

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2. Legal Maneuvering with Vermont

Topic: A new letter from Vermont authorities, outlining their commitment to minimize publicity in exchange for Keyes' cooperation.

• Timestamps: [04:48] – [08:00]

Notable Quotes:

• "It's not like it creates rights or you can enforce it or anything, but what this is is a showing of good faith, you know, by the Vermont authorities." – Prosecutor (07:27)
• "It would be political suicide if they tried to do anything with your case without consulting with us first." – Prosecutor (08:00)

Key Points:

• The letter assures cooperation and non-disclosure to media if Keyes continues to aid investigators.
• Keyes asks to have the letter reviewed by his standby counsel, emphasizing preference for inter-agency communication over personal assurances.

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3. Media Attention & Publicity Concerns

Topic: Negotiating secrecy to shield Keyes' daughter and manage future publicity.

• Timestamps: [13:41] – [15:28]; [24:07] – [27:06]

Notable Quotes:

• Keyes: "I don't want [my daughter] to, like, type my name into the computer and have it pop up... Trying to minimize that at this point, I guess, is what I was hoping to do." (14:10)
• Keyes: "The more stuff my name is attached to, the more likely it is that somebody's gonna try to do some kind of stupid freaking TV special... you know how it is nowadays, like with all this true crime bullshit." (24:07)

Key Points:

• Keyes requests assurances to limit long-term publicity and the possibility of his crimes being sensationalized in popular media.
• Agents explain the limits of federal and state information sharing and restrictions due to ongoing investigations.

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4. The “Snowball Model” for Inter-Jurisdictional Cooperation

Topic: Using successes in Vermont as a model to negotiate with other states.

• Timestamps: [20:00] – [22:53]

Notable Quotes:

• Prosecutor: "We use Vermont as a model, and now it's... working. We're taking a big step in Vermont..." (20:47)
• Keyes: "So, I mean, I think what I heard too, is you're wanting to take responsibility. Your plan is to take responsibility if you can figure out how to do this without getting the recognition..." (23:56)

Key Points:

• Prosecutors advocate for a "snowball effect," creating agreement templates across states to ensure cooperation and secrecy.
• Progress in Vermont is leveraged to secure buy-in from authorities in New York and other future jurisdictions.

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5. Strategic Disclosure and Bargaining

Topic: Keyes withholds some information as bargaining chips for future negotiations and personal protections.

• Timestamps: [40:10] – [51:34]

Notable Quotes:

• Keyes: "...the information that I still have could come in handy if I need it. And if I give it out now... that could seriously compromise my options..." (50:07)
• Prosecutor: "We can take this stagger approach, which I think is probably a good one, to go to different places and we're doing one at a time." (51:01)

Key Points:

• Keyes aims to control the pace and sequence of disclosures, indicating a pragmatic, businesslike approach.
• Prosecutors agree to a "staggered" process, focusing on each jurisdiction in sequence.

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6. The Complexities of State vs. Federal Jurisdiction

Topic: The challenges of coordinating investigations and agreements in different states, especially with Washington.

• Timestamps: [42:30] – [47:39]

Key Points:

• Laws and cooperation differ between states and between federal and local authorities.
• Keyes expresses reluctance to speak with certain agencies unless protections are ensured, citing the difference in state and federal handling.
• The team discusses the need to build relationships in key jurisdictions before proceeding.

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7. Ongoing Cooperation and Personal Circumstances

Topic: Keyes' jail conditions, visitation with family, and willingness to proceed with the investigation.

• Timestamps: [28:12] – [30:49]; [66:07] – [68:51]

Notable Quotes:

• Keyes, on jail restrictions: "I go out like this so... no more running in circles. I guess they figured they may... if they keep me in my cell enough I'll get fat and I won't want to run anymore." (28:15)
• Keyes: "I'm just glad I didn't hear about it on the news. Like, the whole Vermont. I half expected them to do a press release after that." (66:32)

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8. Closing Reflections: Negotiation as a "Business Deal"

Topic: The nature of their ongoing relationship—mutual benefit and compromise.

• Timestamps: [64:22] – [65:38]

Notable Quotes:

• Prosecutor: "It's a business deal... any good negotiations, everybody walks away from the table, you know, not getting exactly what they want." (64:22)

Key Points:

• Both parties acknowledge the transactional, negotiated nature of these exchanges.
• The agents reassure Keyes they remain committed to minimizing publicity as long as he continues to cooperate.
• Mutual understanding is reached that neither side will get everything, but structured cooperation can continue.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Keyes humorously laments about jail:
  "My so called rec time is now fresh air time because I go out like this so... no more running in circles... if they keep me my cell enough I'll get fat and I won't want to run anymore." (28:15)
• On media frenzy:
  "Because so far I feel like we have been able to work within the guidelines of what we both said we would. But, yeah, I am concerned about that, about someone connecting the dots on this... with all this true crime bullshit that people are obsessed with." (24:07)
• Banter about shoes as escape tools:
  "If they're too tight for me to slip them on or off, then that means I'm planning on doing a little running." (69:34; everyone laughs)*

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:53] – Interrogation begins; Keyes is read his rights
• [04:48 - 08:00] – Vermont agreement letter presented/read/discussed
• [13:41 - 15:28] – Keyes discusses desire to minimize future publicity for his daughter
• [24:07 - 27:06] – Keyes and agents debate media attention, true crime culture
• [40:10 - 51:34] – Keyes outlines strategy to stagger disclosures; Washington and New York cases discussed
• [64:22 - 65:38] – Agents characterize the relationship as a business negotiation
• [66:07 - 68:51] – Family visitation timing, willingness to meet again, Keyes' personal updates

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Tone and Language

• Professional but candid: Agents use reassuring, straightforward language to promote trust, with occasional lightheartedness to defuse tension.
• Keyes: Cagey but clear about his motives; injects dry humor and expresses personal concerns with surprising openness.

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Conclusion

This episode dives deeply into the negotiations between Israel Keyes and federal agents, showing the complex interplay of legal strategy, the desire for justice and closure, and the personal anxieties of a notorious serial killer. The dialogue highlights real-world challenges of multi-jurisdictional cooperation, the bargaining embedded in criminal investigations, and the persistent need to balance public interest with investigative integrity.

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For more context and continued analysis, subscribe to True Crime Bullsh and support ongoing investigative reporting into Israel Keyes and his unidentified victims.**

Transcript

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[Special Agent Steve Payne]

This Special Agent Steve Payne with the FBI. Today is Tuesday, May 29th. Time is approximately 2:40pm by my watch. This will be an inter interview with Israel Keys at the Anchorage FBI office. With me will be TFO Jeff Bell and also AUSA Frank Russo.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Ready, Freddie? I guess on the 29th and you can't see it. Yeah.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Israel, how you doing?

[Israel Keys]

All right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Hey, Israel, how you?

[Israel Keys]

All right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Feldus is back east in some meetings.

[Israel Keys]

Oh.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

This week.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

But we figured it'd be a good opportunity to sort of update you on, you know, some of the developments in Vermont.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay. They're gonna go through their usual advisement.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

I'll be first.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

All right.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

As you know, we're, you know, we're recording things here with the stuff on. I just want confirm some of the stuff that we talked about at the jail. We didn't interrupt a meeting with your attorneys when we arrived there today, did we?

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

No. Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And it's Your choice to come here, as always. And you're here voluntarily, is that correct?

[Israel Keys]

Yes.

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Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And you understand we can't talk about anything that has to do with Samantha Koenig. If we do, or if you start talking about that, we'll have to stop the interview and transport you back to jail. You understand that, right?

[Israel Keys]

Yes.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

I'm going to run through your Miranda rights here real quick. I know we've been through these quite a few times. And we'll run through them again before we ask any questions. You must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you questions. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering questions at any time. Do you understand these rights as I've explained them to you?

[Israel Keys]

Yes.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And with this advisement in mind, are you willing to waive your rights and speak with us today?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yes.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

As you know, you've got standby counsel that's been appointed in this matter. I believe it's Rich Kirtner and Jacqueline Walsh. Do you have any desire to have either one of those. Either one of them present today?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Or any attorney whatsoever? Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

No.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Are you. Have you been taking any medications or any other substances here in the last 24 hours?

[Israel Keys]

No.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Are you having any difficulty understanding where you're at, what's going on?

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

No.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

All right. I think that takes care of things, so I'll turn it over.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So I just wanted to update you on where we were and where we are now with the discussion with the state authorities in Vermont. You know, we talked about trying to get that agreement with them.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And we do have a letter. And I'll show you around and give you some time to read it. This letter is dated May 23, 2012, which was last Wednesday. But since this point, we've had some opportunity to discuss the contents of the letter with Vermont. And they still stand by everything in the letter. And I can certainly share. You share with your emails to that effect. But let me let you read this thing. Cotton C. AS two.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

It.

[Israel Keys]

Okay, so I think.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Pretty good letter.

[Israel Keys]

I think I know that attorney.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Really?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Thomas Esquire.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Thomas Thomas Donovan. Goes by T.J. i think the name looks really familiar.

[Israel Keys]

I think he was on, like, my land deed or something. That was years. And Wilson Bailey.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So, anyway, here's my take on the letter.

[Israel Keys]

Okay.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think it really accomplishes everything that you want and that we want. But as I told you, like, last week, this isn't a legal document.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

It's not a. You know, it's not like it creates rights or you can enforce it or anything. But what this is is a showing of good faith, you know, by the Vermont authorities. And they're basically saying, hey, we're on board as long as Israel is cooperating with you. You know, we agree to do those things, which effectively, you know, prevents them from running to the press and charging you under the state law. Because after all, they know this letter's out here.

[Israel Keys]

Right?

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So, you know, it would be political suicide if they tried to do anything with your case without consulting with us first. So this is, you know, in my mind, a home run. I remember last time, you know, you said something about showing it to your attorneys. I mean, do you want them to look at this, or do you want to.

[Israel Keys]

If you could forward them, email them a copy of that. Yeah, that would be good, I guess. It seems that the letter is addressed to Kevin Feldes. So, I mean, that makes me feel better. Obviously, it's addressed to. If it's addressed to me, I can't really put any stock in it, but if it's a communication between the two of them, then that's good. And I also noticed that it's written by the state attorney versus the Fed. Federal attorney. But you said that the. Oh, wait, now the state now. So that's the prosecuting attorney for the county or the district.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

That's for the state of the state of Vermont.

[Israel Keys]

So she's federal now.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

She's a state prosecutor.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, okay.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So she is under. The state's attorney Here is Tom T.J. donovan. And so this is the Chittenden County Prosecutor's Office. They handle all state crimes committed in Chittenden county, which, my understanding, that's where Essex is, right next to Burlington. So, you know, in terms of the federal prosecutors, you know, they're within Department of Justice anyway, so, you know, we're on the same team, so to speak, as them.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

It was just a matter of the state and locals. And, you know, I've been emailing back and forth with these people. I can share that with you, some of it, but I just want to make clear. I mean, you certainly. I can. I can email that to your standby council. No problem. Are you okay talking about this letter today without them present?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, Yeah, I don't mind talking about it. I just wanted to have them review it.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Sure.

[Israel Keys]

To see what. Get their take on it. I wasn't even going to ask them for their advice, just see what they had to say about it.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So it's up to you as to whether or not your advice from it. But, you know, like I said, this isn't like a legally binding contract. I don't think anybody's going to contend it is. It's basically, you know, just a document

[Israel Keys]

that it just puts some of the facts on the table.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

It puts the facts and their intentions on the table, which is really what it was, a huge burden that came off of us last week when we got this. Obviously, you know, because we've been telling them you didn't want publicity. You wanted to kind of keep a low profile. You know, the incident last Wednesday kind of complicated things for us because then we, you know, they were basically wondering, well, does he want no publicity? Or. Sounds like he does. So that was their perspective on things. So I spent some time chatting with Mary Morrissey, and she's the prosecutor here, and, you know, she copies the Essex police chief and the other detective on the case, too, on the Courier case. But basically, you know, their request and, you know, in the email is, you know, they. They certainly may have other questions about the Courier case.

[Israel Keys]

Okay.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And so they were wondering, hey, you know, would it be okay to conference the man? I said we could talk about that in a conference call tomorrow as to what kind of questions they had for you. We could always run those by you. But basically this, after the incident last Wednesday, we were able to kind of go talk to them again and explain. You know, I listened to your conversation with Jeff and Steve on Thursday. It seems clear that you're still on board with this sort of agreement. And I told that to them and saying, look, this was just a sort of a crime of opportunity, the escape thing, and he's serious about cooperating. So I confirmed that to them, and they confirmed today that, you know, they are, you know, they're still on board if you want to see that. I'm happy to show at the end, if you want.

[Israel Keys]

Sure, I'll take a look.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So it moves out the bottom, which is my sort of long hand, long winded explanation of what happened.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

But it starts at the bottom, right?

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, well, that's the bottom question to her. And she basically says in there, do you need me to send another letter? Like an updated date on the letter? I said, you know, I think this email is sufficient.

[Israel Keys]

All right, well, sounds like we're making progress.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think so. I think this is a great amount of progress where we are, and I think, you know, it's going to help us move the ball forward. You know, just to sort of reiterate, they basically have said and agreed that they know it's important to you to sort of avoid media attention. You don't want law enforcement identifying you in connection with the courier matter. That they're prepared to do, and they're prepared to continue cooperating. And in exchange, you're agreeing to be truthful about other crimes and other bodies. And in here, they specifically mention the name of the victim in New York.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Right?

[Israel Keys]

They want to know.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, about that. So, as it says, I'm kind of close to them, and I have a conference call tomorrow with them, and I'd like to be able to tell them that you're continuing to cooperate and you provided that information.

[Israel Keys]

I do want to continue to cooperate. I'm having some issues as far as. This is somewhat of an unrealistic expectation on my part. But I was thinking there might be a way to disclose all this information to you, to the FBI and to some way ensure. Somehow ensure that we could work out some sort of agreement that, you know, I give you all the answers on these cases and families get closure, and you find as many of them as possible. And in return for that, you know, I don't plan on being around a whole lot longer. But a really big concern to me is, you know, my kid's going to be around. I don't want her to, like, type my name into the computer and have it pop up like, you know, I already know stuff's gonna come up. I know that, but I just. Trying to minimize that at this point, I guess, is what I was hoping to do. And apparently, it's gonna be really difficult to get that assurance. So I'm trying to, you know, figure out a way we can still do that. I think there is, you know, I have a few ideas on how you can work it out, but

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[Special Agent Steve Payne]

What are your ideas?

[Israel Keys]

Well, I, I'm not sure if they're feasible yet. I've been, you know, talking to different people about it from the, from what can happen from a guess, a legal perspective. You know, it's one thing to make assurances, you know. You know, that's, that's great. I mean, we get some of the stuff on the table for now. It helps us deal with the problems for right now. But, you know, down the road, that's what I'm concerned about. I'm not going to be around, you know, which is fine. But that doesn't, doesn't change the fact that, you know, like, just because, just because I'm not connected with it right away could happen later. So I'm trying to, I guess maybe cover myself that way as much as possible and still get you what you need.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think sort of the plan I drafted up, I mean, this is sort of a good starting point. You're right. I mean, no one can guarantee you that you're never going to be connected to some of these things. What we can do to respond to some of this is create this sort of snowball effect of the jurisdictions.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And we started with Vermont. I mean, we know even though we gave Vermont the information up front, we know it's possible.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Because we just did it and it will be even. We're in a better position in other jurisdictions when we go to them and say, all right, look, we've got Vermont down. We've got a body in New York. Either get on board or we're not going to play with you.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

It creates this snowball effect where the momentum, no one's going to try to get in the way of that. So, I mean, you know, sort of the plan we sort of lined out for you. It was my hope that that's something we can use as a model. We use Vermont as a model. And now it's, it's certainly, it's working. We're taking a big step in Vermont saying, all right, you know what, you guys, obviously it's keys who's solving at least the courier's crime. And we're going to defer to Alaska and we're going to give you what you need. But in return, you know, we're not going to, we're not going to say anything. We're going to keep things under the radar. We're not going to link it publicly, and we're not going to make a splash in the media, which I think is, I mean, as far as law enforcement guarantees or insurances, it's as good as it gets.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And I think, you know, we can do this. We can continue on doing this, because, I mean, we've been doing a good job in Vermont. Vermont's been doing a great job. And I think, you know, they're aware of New York now, too, and that's, quite frankly, what got them over the line.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Remember, we talking. You like, give us something to take to Vermont.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And when we got New York, we went to Vermont and said, you know, because of your cooperation, we got New York. And then that immediately generated this letter of intent. So. But in order to kind of keep, I think, Vermont on board, it certainly would be nice to kind of say, all right, you know, based upon your letter, we also got, you know, X, the name of a victim, the location of a body, and, you know, we already have their assurance about the courier matter. You don't have to worry about what's happening with that, because that's all tied up in this. And we could do the same thing with the New York victim.

[Israel Keys]

Right. Where are they at with the. I mean, did they find the bodies yet? Or.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think it's like a football field worth of stuff. They're going through.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

They're making. They're making progress, but it's just. It's.

[Israel Keys]

It could still be like a couple weeks or something.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Yeah, it definitely.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

They're not gonna stop.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

This is, you know, tenacious. One of the best analogies I've heard people for it is it's more like an archaeological dig than it is just going through and kind of tossing things until you find what you think you're looking for.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that's a lot of trouble to go to. I almost feel guilty costing the taxpayers

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

a lot of money to find those.

[Israel Keys]

Kept my mouth shut, but that's how

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I'm committed to the FBI.

[Israel Keys]

No, I understand. Well, it sounds like they've got it. They've got the area. They just got to find it now.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

They're very confident of that, and they've been finding things that are in the right time frame and from residences and businesses in that immediate area. So they're confident they're in the right area. But as you can imagine, it's something that they're trying to do precisely, accurately.

[Israel Keys]

And there hasn't been I haven't. Honestly, I haven't had access to any news stories related to that. I saw the one that you showed me.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I googled it almost every day. There's nothing.

[Israel Keys]

They haven't. There's kind of a dead story at this point. Okay.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So, I mean, I think what I heard too, is you're wanting to take responsibility. Your plan is to take responsibility if you can figure out how to do this without getting the recognition, which is

[Israel Keys]

kind of what's going on in Vermont. Right. My concern, the problem is nowadays, the more stuff my name is attached to, the more likely it is that somebody's gonna try to do some kind of stupid freaking TV special or, you know, you know how it is nowadays, like with all this true crime bullshit that people are obsessed with. And that's. I'm not even so concerned at this point about, you know, because so far I feel like we have been able to work within the guidelines of what we both said we would. But, yeah, I am concerned about that, about someone connecting the dots on this. And I don't know how, like the right. I know there's certain privacy laws, but I know that, you know, for the most case, they're not going to apply to me. And so I know that at some point it's pretty likely that if someone tried hard enough, they could, you know,

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

not so much, because this is. You got a couple of things sort of working in our favor on this. One, it's an ongoing investigation.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And so that right there is going to limit the amount of information that's going to be released. And two, it's an ongoing federal investigation. And we play by a whole different set of rules than most of the states out there. And so media agent, media outlet, have the same ability to come in and sort of force us, if you will, to disclose information that they might be able to get away with with state and local agencies.

[Israel Keys]

Right, Yeah, I can see that. That they would have more to go up against. But there's also. I mean, if I'm dead, then the investigation from the federal government's point of view is pretty much closed.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Not necessarily. I mean, we're going to do what we need to do to tie up the loose ends. And to the extent that we can do that with your assistance, like we've talked in the past, if we go at this as a team and we have the benefit of your information, it allows us to go hunting with a rifle instead of a shotgun, and there may be things that we wind up having to follow up on down the road when you're no longer in a position to assist us.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Our idea is to do this with you so that it's focused and we won't and it's not going to get anywhere near like it is in Vermont because we've all learned from that stuff. But the way to get it like that is for us to have to try and figure it out ourselves. And that's what we. And you know that you know exactly what we're faced with and what kind of publicity we're all going to be faced with and questions and that we're going to have to answer and these other agencies are going to be asking us and those are the things that we're trying to avoid. Knowing that you're the only one that can help us keep this to as little publicity as possible. It's up to you. All right, well and so that's where we're at with.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And the reality is if we're not able to do this with your assistance, since I can't imagine being able to do this without generating a fair amount of publicity, I just don't think it's possible because it's going to be too large in scope and it's going to involve too many jurisdictions and too many agencies.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Right.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

I'm just being honest.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I mean I know, I know you've got to move along with your investigation. Unfortunately, due to my own actions recently, I somewhat complicated matters for me. So not surprisingly now there's something else I want out of this but I don't know if I'm even supposed to talk to that about that yet because I haven't even found out like what the options are.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Something that you can talk about that's not related to.

[Israel Keys]

No, it's just like the level of restriction they had me on at the jail makes. I mean namely like my so called rec time is now fresh air time because I go out like this so and stuff no more running in circles. I guess they figured they may be shut up. Yeah, they keep me my cell enough I'll get fat and I won't want to run anymore. But yeah, I know that's unrelated to anything we've talked about so far. Obviously it's a new situation but it doesn't really change the fact it's an everyday reality to me. So. So I'm trying to figure out what, what if any options there are regarding. Within that.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Within the system.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So

[Israel Keys]

anyway that. And like I say, I,

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I think

[Israel Keys]

so far yeah, things have worked fine. But yeah, I am concerned about not so much the right here now publicity, I think we can keep that under wraps to a large extent. More worried or if it's possible, I intend to do something, take steps to minimize the down the road publicity.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Right, I understand that.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

And because honestly you guys, I, you know, You know, I mean there's nothing, I'm not trying to get anything else out of this at this point, you know, and as much, you know, and I did say, you know, I wanted to just get this all cleared up and that way you're not digging for who knows how many years down the road, you know, trying to connect the dots and just make it all go away. But, But I don't know, I just have to figure out the best way to do that to make it all go away.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I understand that but too and I know you've heard me say this many, many times, but at some point in time you may, your choices, may your choice may be the reality could be that and everybody else knows what you did based on what you said you did or everybody else gets to see the fiasco and the media frenzy that is created by law enforcement trying to figure out what's speculation, speculating what you did. Because I told you on the one trip that we've looked at surrounding New York, we have 10 viable, well, people that are missing that we know of. Those are just the ones that are still reported that way. And so if we have to, and we know you didn't do that, but that's what we're looking at in each one of these trips is we're faced with, if you don't tell us our options are to be public with that agency because we can't ask questions, right. And not expect questions in return. And so we are, we're really living up to our end of the bargain. And because at this point in an investigation, if you weren't cooperating with us, this would already have been happening and the media frenzy would be crazy with us trying to figure it out. Because we do have enough information on your trip, on your trips at least to do police work.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Not that we're going to come like, you know, you don't think we're going to find anything out, but we have to try. And so, and I know that's tough for you to think about in the future is that the reality may be that one's worse than the other, obviously.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Especially the one in New York. I mean the only reason we're not just showing you a picture here is these guys and the FBI have been incredibly restrained about asking that part of the country for assistance. Because if they ask that part of the country for assistance, the immediate response is going to be, well, what do you have? Do you have? And so that's the reason we're not sitting here throwing, you know, pictures in front of you and going to you first, because, you know, we understand you're cooperating with us. Vermont understands it, and that's why they're on board. And we just like to continue that effort instead of, you know, having this whole media frenzy, too. And, you know, with respect to, I mean, there is that whole frenzy that's going to be created, you know, if things slow down. I think, you know, we touched on this last time, is that there may be sort of some benefit at the end of this to. Well, the media says that Israel Keys killed 40 people, which, you know, based upon some wild speculation, as opposed to he killed 10 and then also gave closure to those families as his sort of last effort. And I know that doesn't matter to you.

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[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

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[TFO Jeff Bell]

And you know, we're always going to be bound to not talk about this, just like we are now, and assume you're not going to be telling people details, other people that could. You know what I mean?

[Israel Keys]

What do you mean? Well, I mean, you do press releases all the time.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah, but you. But you know that the details of this, these investigations are right here, right now, and that a lot of these details are going to be released.

[Israel Keys]

Well, that is my concern. That. Yeah. How much? I mean, I don't know. See, I don't know that because, I mean, I see. You know, I watch the news. There are press releases that are done on other crimes.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Press releases, though, are different than what I think you're worried about, and rightly so. Press releases are designed to help us gather additional information. And so our release of information while investigations ongoing is limited to the absolute minimum necessary to try and obtain the additional information that we're seeking.

[Israel Keys]

Okay.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Does that make sense?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And as Long as the investigation is ongoing, we're not going to be throwing out information just for the sake of throwing it out. That's not the way we operate.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

I mean, you've seen specials on the FBI. Come on. Everybody talks about our secret files and how we never give up anything. Right?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

There you go.

[Israel Keys]

Well, yeah, I mean, let's. Like I say, I want to have a chance to talk about the letter with some people, and I want to have a chance to hear back on the other thing. I'm not going to hold my breath on that, but I want to at least see what the options are. Like I say, I would have preferred to wait until they find the bodies in Vermont, but it sounds like that could be a while. So I guess as long as we have that letter from them, then, you know, as soon as I have a chance to look it over or have other people look it over, then we

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

can

[Israel Keys]

move on to the New York trip. I mean, you guys already have, I'm sure, quite a bit of information. Information on it. So you probably have more than I remember at this point. Except. I mean, except certain details, and we

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

could have those, too. And so we're just sort of holding that in advance.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. No, I understand.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So that's. That's the only reason. So just so I'm clear, I can tell Vermont tomorrow on this conference call that you appreciate their letter and you intend to go forward with.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, yeah. Keep working. Yeah.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So it's reasonable you want to talk to people about it?

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, Especially, I mean, especially on the New York case, because I've already given you so much information on it. It's. You know, we gotta. Can't really stop on that one now. So.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

One thing that might be helpful, and I don't think this is sort of giving away anything, so we can just start thinking along those terms. Kevin is back east at sort of a meeting of criminal chiefs, and it certainly would be nice for him to start networking whatever criminal chief he needs to in terms of the New York thing now, you know, again, I don't. I don't think that gives away anything. You haven't. You just told us the body is in New York. We want to start striking up relationships with whatever criminal chief he needs to talk to or will need to talk to about the New York thing, because you've already said you've committed.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, but I mean, I don't want to talk. I don't want to give out any more information on it. I mean, I understand his point of view, but it's you know, like I say, it's still. Frankly, that's gonna be too much if I. At this point, I don't. I don't want to go there yet until I

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

even.

[Israel Keys]

Just until I find out where I'm at with. With what we. You know, with the new development.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So. Okay, what about. And I'm just thinking about his trip because he'd asked me ask you these things, Officers. He's going to be there. He's also with the people in Washington. I mean, you've already talked to us about Washington, and I think these guys have some.

[Israel Keys]

Washington state.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

State, yeah. They have some pictures they want to show you about that, just to let

[TFO Jeff Bell]

you know that we did have.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Oh, you found the boat. Had better days that cover.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

It was a good investment, though.

[Israel Keys]

Really. It's still on shape. Looks like it's a little leaky at this point.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

He was still in his driveway just. Just sitting there. He hadn't touched it. So.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I had big plans for that boat, but whatever.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

What plans did you have for the boat?

[Israel Keys]

Oh, I was gonna bring it up here, but bring it up here and put a new motor on it. But. Then decided it was time to leave Alaska anyway. I probably would have picked it up eventually. It's been there for a long time, six or seven years.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So the thing about Washington is a little simpler from his perspective. There's only two federal districts there, Eastern and Western. So Eastern is more like Tacoma and Yakima. Western is Seattle.

[Israel Keys]

Right. Where is the dividing line?

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

It's Spokane, Yakima, and then there's Seattle. Tacoma. That's in the Western.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah. I think he'd like to be in a position to sort of just chat very briefly with one of those criminal chiefs, if not both, if he needs to, to sort of lay the foundation.

[Israel Keys]

Well, the problem of. I have with talking about anything related to Washington is not playing ball with the right people. Because those I'm almost positive, are not going to be federal. I mean, case. They're not federal cases.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Well, I think Kevin explains it like

[Israel Keys]

different stuff that happens.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay, Well, I mean, I think Ken explained to you that the jurisdiction that we can actually exercise is pretty expansive, especially if it's part of a scheme and tracking. Right.

[Israel Keys]

No, I understand that. But again, this is going to be hard to talk about without getting into stuff we're not supposed to talk about. But. Depending on things, the way things pan out, the things we've already talked about, then I may need those details of the Washington cases that. That I would be Better served to wait, you know, to. If that's where the route I have to go. I mean, if you know what I mean. It's.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think. I do.

[Israel Keys]

Not sure why.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And I know we talked a little bit about.

[Israel Keys]

Because. Yeah, because there's a big difference between state and federal, it seems. And it seems like Washington might be a state that.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

But that's something that we can sort of start working on in the background, just so you know. I mean, I'm not asking you here now, today, but that's something that usually does require cooperation between even the federal districts, even if they're state things.

[Israel Keys]

So you're saying there's two. I'm sorry, there's two districts in Washington. Federal districts.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah. So there's two federal districts that we probably just sort of broach with it. One in. In Spokane and Yakima are the main offices in the one. And then Seattle and Tacoma are the western district. So that's just the dividing line. I don't know exactly where it is, but pretty much, you know, Seattle and Tacoma is where most of the crime are.

[Israel Keys]

Everything like Ellensburg or.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, I think that's Ellensburg is.

[Israel Keys]

Ellensburg is west or east?

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

No, east. East. Ellensburg's sort of outside of Yakima.

[Israel Keys]

You're going to need both districts because I don't.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, well, it's something. I mean, the good thing about Washington is we have some pretty good relationships with both U.S. attorneys there and, you know, both criminal chiefs.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying, but. That was a few years ago, so. But no, I. It just seems like I might end up having to talk to, like, state people there. I don't know.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I don't know either. But I mean, the good thing is the federal people have their counterparts. You know, like, Vermont was pretty connected with the Chittenden county folks. You know, we can sort of get them on board and makes the transition easier. So move forward in their jurisdiction if that's the way you choose to go. Obviously, everybody would have to be on board anyway.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So it's useful for him to sort of give him a heads up.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

And I think Frank can correct me if I'm wrong, obviously, but I think the sooner that they have that opportunity, the less likely you are to kind of get drugged from one jurisdiction to another because they'll already be things in place.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

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[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

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[Israel Keys]

No, I, I'm a little, my concern at this point is not knowing, like I say, how current things are going to pan out. The information that I still have could come in handy if I need it. And if I give it out now, before, I mean, yeah, I don't think I'll need it in that respect. But you know, you never know. I don't know what's going on, going to happen. And if I give it all out now, particularly, you know, anything about Washington that could seriously compromise my options, future

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

options, I think, sort of. And I can sort of bring that back into you at some point. Obviously, you know, we can take this stagger approach, which I think is probably a good one, to go to different places and we're doing one at a time. But the plan that we propose to you is to do exactly that. So, like, you sort of do the New York one, we make sure we have everybody on board, and the New York one, whatever jurisdictions we need to get that information agreement in place and then we can move on to Washington.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Washington, you know, basically would have the same agreement. And then, you know, it could be an option that you could always use later down the road if you don't like the way things are going. You can ask us to simply say, hey, you know, there's that thing in Washington that I helped you on. Can you reach out to those people again and see what they're willing to do? So there is that. I mean, I get you with. You don't want to kind of sort of give away cards. But I think the. But the plan that we proposed to you is sort of like a one at a time staggered approach where we eventually get to where we need to be going. And it doesn't result in this land, just massive publicity.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, but it is going to have to be spread out over the next who knows how long. Because I don't plan on, like I say, until certain issues, ongoing issues right now are resolved. I don't plan on giving out all the. That's just, you know. Well, that's not true. I mean, if I get, you know, who knows how. I don't know how long this is going to take. I don't know. You know, my impression is there could be a pretty wide range of time frames that could happen. But yeah, first and foremost, you know, one step at a time, I've got to have a chance to. Tackle whatever new issues are on the table. Sure.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, we can sort of review that. Obviously need to think about this. There's one suggestion in the email about other details in the courier case that they may want to know about. May want a conference call in. Now that you have this letter, I mean, how do you feel about that?

[Israel Keys]

That's. I mean, with. Who is it? With this.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Local investigators.

[Israel Keys]

So, like the detectives that were on the case.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Now we can do it two ways. I don't know if they're going to have a lot of questions. If they have a few, we can simply ask those and so get them the information they need, you know.

[Israel Keys]

But is it gonna be just like a few people? I mean, you say conference calls, just

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

whoever's on the other line. I don't know who would be on the line. Probably just the detective and the prosecutor.

[Israel Keys]

Okay, that's, you know, I don't, I don't know. I.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

Seems like it'd be better. I don't have a problem with that. It's just. It seems like it'd be better if there's not a ton of people on the. Since we're still. Still trying to keep it on the down low.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I mean, it would only be people who were bound by this letter. If it is, people would just be.

[Israel Keys]

Like I say, I feel like I've already given all the information they need, but if they want more, that's fine.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think they had some follow up about what the house looked like and things like that that they. They're just dealing with some administrative issues on their end that they're trying to release the house to the family and. And they're trying to get rid of the house. So they're not going to keep it in the way it was. So they just want to make sure they document everything that they need to just.

[Israel Keys]

Right, okay.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah. Given that they have this assurance that I don't think it's a problem, but that's up to you. And maybe they don't have much, but I'm going to talk to them about that tomorrow.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that's fine. And I, like you say, if you can forward that, I imagine very shortly I'll have a chance to talk to them about it.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

[Israel Keys]

Then there's the issue with the US Marshals, but like I say, I don't know if there's anything any of us can do about that.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I don't know. Security is a difficult thing. They kind of basically tell us to mind our own business when it comes to security, so it's, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, I don't know. It's a difficult situation given what happened.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

They're responsible for you and you're in custody, so they would have been. They looked pretty foolish if you'd gotten too much farther.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So they're probably not going to. Who knows? I doubt they're going to be open to much of your suggestions, but I don't know.

[Israel Keys]

I'm not going to take any of my suggestions. My suggestions seem to hold less and less water lately.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

I'm sure they're very polite about it, though.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, they all seem quite highly amused. Last time I was the courthouse. Yeah. Definitely seem to have changed their protocol for the way they do things.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

We liven things up a little bit and we weren't sure exactly how to deal with this situation with Vermont, you know, given that.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. That was not well thought out on my part as. As soon as These guys mentioned that I was like, oh, shit, one more thing I didn't think of before I

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

did, that you seem to have a basic plan, but just sort of A to B and then C is sort of left out there.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, well, it wasn't really like a high probability of success there in the best of circumstances.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

No. Understood. Understood.

[Israel Keys]

Obviously, like half a football team of U.S. marshals between me and the door, so.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And Officer Bell?

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yes.

[Israel Keys]

Pretty sure I saw him come in. He's claiming he didn't, but.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Do you have anything else you want to talk about or questions you have on these other men?

[Israel Keys]

No, I think. I mean, from my perspective, I think the letter is good, but, yeah, from my perspective, I'm glad they're still willing to work with me on it.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, this is a home run from my perspective, you know, and you certainly check it out. These people are who they say they are, and, you know, they want to make a call to any of these people. I'm sure that they'll take the call and confirm that that's, you know, their signature on the letter.

[Israel Keys]

But you did say that everyone on that is with the state, not with the feds.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Exactly. Okay, so the feds are already, you know, we've been talking to them in the outset, and they're, you know, under the Department of Justice.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Anyway, so, you know, they have no problem. They just want to.

[Israel Keys]

And the state is. They're the entity that's more likely to. To want to release information on me.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Exactly. And I can tell you they were

[TFO Jeff Bell]

the ones responsible for the investigation.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

And let me share this with you. I think it's kind of important in sort of the model on how to deal with things. I know that, you know, obviously there were reporters that called, maybe friends or family members of you. I think what happened in the outset is, like we said, you know, we provided them with the information. They didn't know what they were dealing with with at first, so they had no idea. And I think someone spoke, you know, at a turn or at school, whatever you want to call it, maybe one person over there. And now they've realized, oh, shit, we shouldn't have said what we said. And they basically shut it down. No one can confirm that story. So I think it's incredibly helpful to have this sort of model going forward and to be able to tell them, look, you know, we want to limit media attention. New York victim. We want to kind of keep things in one jurisdiction. We want FBI to handle it because we're dealing with something that's more than just your jurisdiction. For all they knew that, you know, was just, you know, Alaska and the couriers and oh boy, we've got some sort of, we've caught ourselves, our suspect. They didn't understand the big picture. And I think that's what happened because that was obviously of concern to us, you know, initially talking to them. But I think when you get their perspective, I think they, they realize that, oh, you know, this is something we should be doing and they realize the severity of it now. I think we've got pretty good relationship with them and, you know, we're happy to talk to them as long as, you know, they're on board, they're, you know, part of the team. And again, we're just building momentum and the next jurisdiction, you know, we can have Vermont. And they've offered to do that and say, well, they'll reach out to the next jurisdiction simply and say, hey, you know, we did this in our jurisdiction and it worked. And it worked well, you should too. And this way, you know, we've got state and local officers reaching out to the other jurisdictions, state and locals there and basically telling them this is a good idea. So really it gets the momentum that it snowballs and it can't be stopped and no one's going to get in the way of it.

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[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

play social casino void where prohibited. Visit spinquest.com for more details. So I think that's the best way to control, you know, any kind of media attention here is just with the cooperation of law enforcement as a whole.

[Israel Keys]

Right.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think, you know, we've been doing a good job of it. We can continue.

[Israel Keys]

I mean, at some point, though, I don't. I mean, I haven't felt like this so far, but I mean, I know you guys keep wanting information and, and like I've said, I don't want to give out everything all at once, but I just don't want us to get in a situation where, you know, we reach an impasse and you're like, okay, we're gonna go and start doing press releases now or whatever, and then I'm gonna be all pissed off, frankly. And, you know, and then. So, I mean, I. That's all I ask. I'm not saying this is going to remain a compatible relationship, obviously, but, you know, if we can keep it, at least an open communication.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And that's why, frankly, we came over there today and you told us you weren't in a talkative move. We still wanted to bring you over because we still want to keep this relationship going. We're getting pressures. We're all getting pressures from the powers to be that control us, our bosses, to get information. You understand that we, we all have jobs to do, and so we just want to keep the communication open with you.

[Israel Keys]

That. And that's my. I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm not so concerned about the people in this room. I'm concerned about people putting pressure on you to get the answers. I imagine they, you know, they don't care about my agenda. They want all the answers, like, right now, you know, and I understand that,

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

but

[Israel Keys]

I just hope it doesn't come to that. I just hope it doesn't come to, like a standoff.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think, you know, this is a business deal. I think, you know, Agent Payne explained it. It's sort of, you know, it's just a. It's a business deal. It's kind of strange because, you know, obviously we all have different interests, but that's usually the case in any kind of business deal is you have stuff that we want and we have, you know, things that we can assure you of that, you know, is of some value to you, I think. And so in any kind of business deal, like I said, negotiations, any good negotiations, everybody walks away from the table, you know, not getting exactly what they want. I think, you know, we've. We've basically been able to manage our supervisors that way by saying, look, he's not going to give us everything up front. Okay. He's not going to do it. But we're able to kind of say, hey, but. But he will maybe give us one at a time and draw it out for a period of time to keep sort of the benefit of the bargain for us and not spending man hours and, you know, going through all the press and media and, you know, other local departments. So, yeah, we're not getting exactly what we want, and you're probably not getting exactly what you want. You probably like to not give us any of it, but, you know, it's a business deal and, you know, we're keeping up our end of it, and I think we can continue to work together as long as we're reasonable.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, I just. I just wanted to. I figured that was the case. I just wanted to, like, you know, that's what I was thinking.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

But know that when we're. While we're doing what we're doing, our responsibilities and talking to you and trying to keep this going, there are lots of other people out there investigating trips and airline tickets and phone logs and things like that, doing what police do. And there's gonna come a point in time where, when that investigation reaches a point where they think they have some information that they need to act on, where that's the timeline. We're gonna be pushed up against having them slow down.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

All right.

[Israel Keys]

Well, yeah. And the only other thing is, on more personal note, like I was saying earlier, my. My brothers are visiting this week, and honestly, you know, like, I say that that whole thing last week, I did not plan out very well, but I would prefer to just try not to think about any of this stuff.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

This will leave you alone.

[Israel Keys]

I mean, it's not that I don't want to. It's just. I guess I'm just juggling too many things in my head right Now. So. Yeah. And then that'll give me a chance to talk to people about that and a couple other concerns I have. But, I mean, for now, I think we. Yeah, I'm just glad that they're still willing to. I'm just like, bottom line is, I'm glad I didn't hear about it on the news. Like, the whole Vermont. I half expected them to do a press release after that.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah. No. And I think it's a testament to the relationships we built over there.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. So, I mean. Yeah. As long as we can.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Keep that.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

So are they in town the whole. The whole week?

[Israel Keys]

I think they leave on Sunday or Monday. And the main. It's not so much that I wouldn't want to, you know, if it's like a short. I don't have a problem coming over, talking. I just don't want to miss the time they go over there to visit me or whatever, and I don't even know how, like, what the times are that they have available.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So are they gonna be able to visit you daily? You know.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, probably.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

I think so. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's just what I wanted to tell Vermont because they. You saw in that email, they said, you know, maybe have some questions on Thursday or Friday. They've got some urgency about the house, so I don't know if it's.

[Israel Keys]

That's fine. I mean. Yeah.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah. If you want to get a schedule about when they're gonna come. We don't want to interfere with that and we don't want it to.

[Israel Keys]

Well, they're Eastern time, so if we did it in the morning, that would be fine.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Oh, no, I'm talking about your family coming to visit.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

He doesn't know. They don't. Yeah, they don't.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

But it may be possible later this week. I mean, obviously we wouldn't do it tomorrow, the next day, but you can sort of let them know we can set a meeting for Thursday or Friday.

[Israel Keys]

No, that's what I'm saying. If you want to do a meeting. I'm just saying morning.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah, sure. Like Eastern time. Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

Nine or ten our time. Because I know there's no visiting over there that early. Early and then.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay.

[Israel Keys]

And then I would. Yeah. Still be around in the afternoon.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

That makes sense. Then if we. If they. They have some followup and.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah. If they have stuff they need to get out of the way, that's fine. I mean.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Do you have a preference? Thursday or Friday

[TFO Jeff Bell]

morning?

[Israel Keys]

No, it doesn't. I don't think it matters. Have to check my day.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

So you don't get the normal exercise. So they let you have the tennis shoes to torture you that you can't run or.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, no, I just started wearing. I don't get a run anymore. So my tennis shoes, I don't lace them up tight anymore, so I just wear. You know, they're casual. They're slippers now. They're not tennis shoes anymore.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

So when you start lacing them up, we should be. We should pay attention.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keys]

If they're. They're too tight for me to slip them on or slip them. Slip them off. Then that means I'm planning on doing a little running.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Okay. So I'll email that to your attorneys and, you know, maybe we'll speak later this week.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Then we'll try to hold off. If we do something, it'll be like Friday morning early. That way we won't interrupt your.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, that's fine. I would think that would work.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

And then maybe by next week, say Tuesday or so we could.

[Israel Keys]

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

[TFO Jeff Bell]

Well, and I think if we're done, why don't we let. Get him a cigar and let him. Since we got you over here.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Awesome. Wow. Cigar for nothing.

[Israel Keys]

Well, I was.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

I like to think it's a cigar for good faith,

[Israel Keys]

but ultimately for good health.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

Ultimately, that's going to be up to you, Israel.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah. Okay.

[Israel Keys]

No, look, I mean, if we can keep working on this, we're working on our ends.

[Federal Prosecutor/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Steve Payne]

We've done just about everything we can do at this stage. All right, hang tight and we'll be back with you here.

[Israel Keys]

All right,

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