October 22, 2012: Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary:

True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation
Episode: October 22, 2012: Part 2
Host: Studio BOTH/AND (Josh Hallmark)
Publish Date: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode continues the detailed breakdown of the October 22, 2012, FBI interrogation of serial killer Israel Keyes. The host, Josh Hallmark, provides listeners with a unique opportunity to hear Keyes’ own perspectives on his crimes, his mindset around control, planning, and risk, and the challenges law enforcement faced during the investigation. The episode is characterized by long, candid exchanges between Keyes and his interrogators, offering chilling insight into his motivations and the procedural realities encountered by investigators as they attempt to uncover the extent of his crimes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Keyes' Criminal Mindset and Reflections ([04:33]–[11:01])

• Memories, Control, and Obsession
  • Keyes discusses his satisfaction with evading capture and accumulating memories from his crimes.
  • He compares himself to other serial killers like Dennis Rader (BTK) and the Green River Killer, noting the challenge of separating criminal and domestic lives.
• Quote:
  • “It is now. It never was a consideration. I was more interested in the next plan... that's a pretty common theme.” — Israel Keyes ([04:55])

2. The Psychology of Offending & "Self-Control" ([06:24]–[12:24])

• Keyes admits that self-control was limited and difficult to maintain, explaining that living a double life became unsustainable, especially in maintaining relationships.
• He reveals an intent to become a “nomad” to separate himself from others, considering living in a travel trailer as a cover while following disasters and working as a contractor.
• Quote:
  • “I just couldn't separate the two lives anymore.” — Israel Keyes ([10:08])
  • “My self-control wasn’t... to the point where I could put things off till the next trip or whatever.” — Israel Keyes ([11:01])

3. Risk, Planning, and Alternate Outlets ([12:24]–[19:41])

• Keyes differentiates between the adrenaline of “the real thing” and finding lesser outlets like arson and robbery.
• He unpacks his risk mitigation strategies, including careful planning, avoiding impulsivity, and choosing remote locations.
• Keyes describes how some crimes (e.g., Vermont vs. New York) were better planned than others.
• Quote:
  • “If you’re in a remote location, statistically you’ve got better odds. Especially nowadays, everybody’s got cell phones. The more people you have, the more risk you are.” — Israel Keyes ([25:35])

4. Home Invasions and Escalation ([19:41]–[27:19])

• Detailed discussion about breaking into homes, the danger of unknowns in home invasions, and his preference for “controlling the whole situation” when stalking victims in isolated settings.
• He estimates breaking into 20-30 houses, very rarely with people home, and notes that only a couple of those included potential violent intent, aborted due to circumstances.
• Memorable Moment:
  • The investigators and Keyes trade quips about the risks and “stupidity” of certain crimes, offering a dark, unfiltered perspective on his methodology.

5. Bank Robberies and Criminal Tactics ([27:48]–[32:15])

• Keyes describes his rationale and decision process behind robbing banks, noting a lack of deep planning and acting more on adrenaline than financial necessity.
• He details the logistics of bank hold-ups (use of guns and notes), mistakes made, and his typical emotional state pre- and post-crime.
• Quote:
  • “There’s literally a picture where you’ve got note in one hand and gun in the other.” — Law Enforcement Agent Jeff ([28:45])
  • “Most of the things I’ve done haven’t really been for money.” — Israel Keyes ([31:34])

6. The Role of Environment: Alaska and Escalation ([33:01]–[37:00])

• Keyes notes that moving to Alaska increased his sense of isolation and, subsequently, his “activity.”
• He outlines his history of early criminal behavior: breaking into homes as a teenager, fascination with fire, and even setting a forest fire for the thrill.
• Quote:
  • “Alaska definitely accelerated my outlook on life.” — Israel Keyes ([33:10])

7. Arson and Crime Scene Cleanup ([37:00]–[39:54])

• Keyes admits to using fire to cover up evidence, describing it as almost a “public service” if the structure was abandoned.
• Investigators probe about burning houses with bodies inside; Keyes largely avoids confirming or denying specifics.

8. Law Enforcement Coordination, Search Warrants, and Legal Hurdles ([40:54]–[51:19])

• Investigators discuss with Keyes the impending execution of search warrants at properties tied to him and his partner, Kimberly, explaining procedural delays due to ongoing cooperation.
• Keyes voices concern for minimizing collateral damage to Kimberly, and law enforcement assures him they will attempt to be discreet.
• They emphasize that progress on the investigation is measured in “names and bodies.”
• Notable Dialogue:
  • “We're not talking about Samantha, we're talking about other crimes.” — Law Enforcement Agent Jeff ([42:17])
  • “It’s a pretty rare courtesy that they came in here and wanted to share it with you even before they searched. That has never happened in my years of law enforcement, ever.” — Law Enforcement Agent ([50:05])
  • “I appreciate that... reality is I would have found out about it regardless.” — Israel Keyes ([50:15])

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “I just couldn't separate the two lives anymore.” — Israel Keyes ([10:08])
• “Well, yeah, because the issue. There’s just too many unknowns. It’s better if you control the whole situation from start to finish.” — Israel Keyes on home invasions ([24:17])
• “My self-control wasn’t... to the point where I could put things off till the next trip or whatever.” ([11:01])
• “Alaska definitely accelerated my outlook on life.” ([33:10])
• “Most of the things I’ve done haven’t really been for money, so...” ([31:34])

---

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:33] — Keyes reflects on memories, planning, and comparing himself to other serial killers
• [06:24] — Discussion on self-control and living a double life
• [11:01] — Keyes admits inability to maintain separate lives and contemplates a “nomad” existence
• [12:24] — Outlets for compulsion: arson, non-homicidal crimes
• [17:28] — Breakdown of travel and logistics for crimes
• [25:35] — Remote location targeting and risk calculation
• [27:48] — Bank robbery details and lack of deep planning
• [33:10] — Alaska’s impact on escalation
• [37:06] — Earliest arson and adolescent crime history
• [40:54] — Law enforcement discusses new warrants and investigation progress
• [50:05] — Extraordinary courtesy of alerting Keyes ahead of searches

---

Tone and Language

The episode is unflinching and clinical, with long stretches of candid self-analysis from Keyes and measured, sometimes darkly humorous, exchanges with investigators. The tone fluctuates between chilling detachment, law enforcement pragmatism, and moments of unexpectedly conversational banter, even as the subject matter addresses deeply disturbing criminal behavior.

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Takeaway

This episode grants listeners a rare, unfiltered look inside the mind of Israel Keyes and the complex dance between him and those seeking the truth. Listeners come away with a sobering understanding of Keyes’ compulsions, his intricate planning contrasted with impulsive acts, and the emotionally charged, practical realities law enforcement faced as they worked to unravel his secrets and bring closure for the victims’ families.

Transcript

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This is a studio both and production. Hey everybody, it's special announcement time. June 11th marks the 10 year anniversary of the very first episode of my very first podcast being released. 10 years since this whole journey began. This journey I have been so fortunate to get to share with you guys and we are going to celebrate over the next few months. There will be bonus episodes, retrospectives and behind the scenes look at 10 years of podcasting all on Patreon and on this main feed and then we're gonna have a big party over the weekend of September 25th here in the Berkshires. We're having a hybrid event with live shows, studio sessions and outside activities with a ton of special guests. We already have a few locked in and let me tell you this lineup is going to be astounding. It's also going to be a pretty intimate party. We are only selling 75 tickets to this event. Tickets go on sale on June 1st and I'll start announcing who the special guests are then so Mark your calendars and start planning for this incredible once in a lifetime podcast retreat here in the magical Berkshires on the tail end of summer and the very beginning of leaf peeping season. You can watch live shows, tour the research library, get behind the scenes looks at the creation of True Crime Bullshit and other podcasts, and explore the Berkshires with some of your favorite podcasters. You're going to get to come up, celebrate 10 years of podcasting with a bunch of your favorite podcasters and actually get out into the beautiful Berkshires and explore this incredible part of the country. In the meantime, we have seven tickets left for our trip to Costa Rica in November. You can click the link in the show notes or go to the website to find out more and book. Today we're going to be on the Pacific coast, hiking through rainforests, boating in the ocean, walking through nature, visiting coffee plantations and hopefully probably seeing a sloth or coat or jaguar or all of the above. I cannot wait to kick off winter in the tropics with you. So check that out again in the show notes or on the website and we'll be announcing two more Trova trips over the next four months. That's it for now. Tickets for our anniversary event go on sale June 1st, so check back on the website or on your feed where I will be announcing it. And now here is the second half of Israel Keyes 10-22-review because I'm not.

[Israel Keyes]

I'm happy about the life I've lived and you know, as long as I

[Interviewer/Investigator]

got away with it.

[Israel Keyes]

But that being said, considering that's all I have now, it's better to have more, more memories.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So do you think that's the memories part?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

It is now.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, it is now. It's never, never was a consideration. I was more interested in the next plan. And that's. I don't know. From what I've read, that's a pretty common theme.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What theme?

[Israel Keyes]

With most serial killers, if you will, that I've read about, they nothing ever goes against exactly as planned.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Or

[Israel Keyes]

maybe it does, but in your mind you're up the ante as far as who or where or what happens, the order of the way things happen, how long it goes on. That's what constantly. Kept me obsessed with whatever the future might hold as opposed to that and being. Tempered by the fact that I was always on the thought. Just thought I had it all figured out. Just don't do anything close to home or whatever.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What do you think was able to give you that self control?

[Israel Keyes]

I didn't have Any self control?

[Interviewer/Investigator]

I thought you said you tried to have self control.

[Israel Keyes]

I tried.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And what would you do to help yourself?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, there's other outlets, you know, but I'm just saying, like btk, for example. That's why that whole story. He must have found a really interesting hobby to have for those 20 years. Either that or he was like you say, truly repentant or sorry or decided. Because that doesn't make sense.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Or nobody knows what happened during those 20 years.

[Israel Keyes]

No, he was a publicity hog. So I think if he had done something, he probably would have told people

[Law Enforcement Agent]

about it all in one place too. It was all around Kansas, I think too. He didn't really travel that much.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

One of the things that seemed that I read that was kind of interesting was one of the features of certain types of serial killers is excessive driving.

[Israel Keyes]

I think. I don't know. I had some theories about him. Seems like he. At some point he killed a whole family and had to kill some kids that were pretty young. I could see where that could possibly, if I had ever been put in that situation. Situation. If there was anything that would have changed anything about me. That's possibly the one scenario.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

That was his very first killing, though. When he killed the family, it was his first time.

[Israel Keyes]

See, that's what. I wasn't sure it was his first. You know, to me that would explain it if that was his last. Yeah, I don't know.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

You said you tried to avoid those situations though, more and more and he.

[Israel Keyes]

It doesn't have to make sense. It just has to make sense to

[Interviewer/Investigator]

me or to the person. Exactly. What other characteristics do you see in the other serial killers you've heard about? Like what other.

[Israel Keyes]

Some of the more recent ones I

[Interviewer/Investigator]

don't really know that much about.

[Israel Keyes]

But like Green river, he was probably the most prolific certainly in modern times. But it seems like he might have been another one over the last few years. He wasn't doing anything. He was finally caught. I know he was already married, settled down. I think he had been married for part of the time. That was always. I was always interested in those individuals that had to lead that life. It's not easy.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That's kind of what you were doing. Right.

[Israel Keyes]

And that's why I can save like from my perspective, I know it's not easy. I'd come to the conclusion over the last couple years that it wasn't even an option for me anymore.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That you were gonna not be able to.

[Israel Keyes]

That I wasn't going to be able to cohabitate with anyone.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And why was that?

[Israel Keyes]

I just couldn't separate the two lives anymore.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

You were still able to be a very good parent though. I mean that's obviously wouldn't have gone away, right?

[Israel Keyes]

I'm not saying my plan was realistic, but I was planning on continuing to raise her. I just. It's easier with a child, you know, they have to follow the rules. Whereas with your partner, you know,

[Interviewer/Investigator]

certain

[Israel Keyes]

aspects of your life that they're gonna. Whether they're doing it on purpose or by accident, they're gonna pry into and find out things, see things that are gonna get harder and harder to explain as the years go by. So.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So you thought that just wasn't workable in the long run?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, it was just becoming less and less maintainable. And like you say, my self control wasn't. I felt like it was no longer to the point where

[Law Enforcement Agent]

I could put

[Israel Keyes]

things off till next trip or whatever. My solution was to just make. Get a travel trailer and make life.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And make what?

[Israel Keyes]

Be a nomad, I guess.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Oh, that's what you were thinking you would just do is just go live in a travel trailer or travel around or whatever?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you have plans for the future?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, that's what I was going to do. I was going to be a traveling contractor. Follow the hurricanes. Pretty feasible explanation for why I would live that way. But it's not really what I would. I mean, obviously I wouldn't have interested in doing construction anymore.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So what other outlets for the lack of self control over the years that you have?

[Israel Keyes]

Quite a few. But there's nothing, not anything that comes close. It's kind of like comparing. There really is no comparison. I can't really say distinguish the amount of difference there is between playing a video game or watching a movie that centers on whatever you're interested in versus the real thing, but that, you know, those are all still good escapes. If I'm just taking a short trip or whatever. There's always other things, less high profile. Things you can do.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Arson, bank robberies.

Those are pretty high profile too.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, comparatively.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Comparatively.

Right.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, lower risk, I guess.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you ever feel like you almost got caught before?

[Israel Keyes]

I felt like I was going to get caught every time right before. I never felt like I was going to get caught after. Just like before. I was always. Usually in the planning stage. I was usually convinced that was the way it was going to go down. I'm not always extremely lucky person, I guess you could say so. I just always had visions of that.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

That would be what happened.

[Israel Keyes]

The one bank I go in there Being off duty.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

But that didn't. I mean your preparation, I think you described for that was just. You were willing to take that risk, right?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, to a certain extent. I think that's why. Because I didn't do anything really impulsively. I think that's part of the reason why up until recently I was able

[Law Enforcement Agent]

to

[Israel Keyes]

put things off until what I would think of as a more opportune time to do it for lower risk or whatever. But like it's a 2020 hindsight. None of what I did was really that low risk.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

But you did things to minimize the risk.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, that. I would always tend to think of things in worst case scenario type of thing.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

How would you describe your level of planning? The couriers or something like that?

[Israel Keyes]

Not very good on that because it wasn't very specific.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What about upstate New York, Temper Lake?

[Israel Keyes]

No, that was. That was very. That trip was very specific.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And how would you describe your level of planning?

[Israel Keyes]

I didn't have. In general, it was good. I guess it was about the same as like the Vermont couriers. The only difference was I had more planned. Like I had more reasons for being there on the couriers because I had things that I would plan to do.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Israel Keyes]

So there was a tighter timeline.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

But New York was just a trip.

[Israel Keyes]

Whereas, yeah, I think New York was. There may have been a stop or two before I got to New York, but there was like once I got to New York, I think that was pretty specific. Not just New York, but that whole area was.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

You were there open range kind of thing. Like open range, like hunting. Like you were looking.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

So you know, you knew everybody, every state you were going to go to or you just drove around because you said you went through lots of states. Do you even remember all the states you went through?

[Israel Keyes]

I don't remember specifically, but I could guess just because I know the routes I normally take when I'm there. I think I remember which area I flew into. So I mean I would just be guessing though. Like I say, there's high points, certain places I know that I was in betweens, not so much.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And then what about planning? Like the Washington State when you had your boat out, Were those highly planned, organized?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, Washington was a lot easier in a lot of ways because once I lived out in New York Bay, I knew all of Washington pretty well, except I was so isolated out there. Once you drive past Port Angeles, it's like you're in a new world anyway.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What's that whole part? There's a whole set of mountains right there, right that separates Neah Bay from.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, the Olympic. Well, the Olympic range. There's mountains everywhere. I know you don't really have to go over any mountain passes or anything

[Interviewer/Investigator]

to go to Seattle. Right, Right. No, not to get. But there is that parkland or wilderness area.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. Once I had the boat, it was. By then I was pretty much coasting in my job, so I would take off for long weekends. My accountability was pretty low at that time. I don't think I had. I mean, I knew Kimberly, but you know, it wasn't like it was just me.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So it wasn't hard to disappear for a few days. Right.

[Israel Keyes]

And she was pretty young then, so she most. More often than not, she just stayed in the in bay with babysitters and stuff.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

When you were in Vermont, you described that there was a guy who you had seen get out of a car and go. Owned a hotel. You know that you.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

The yellow Volkswagen.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah. And. But then. Then it ended up being in the courier's house. So that seems like. Well, there was some planning, but then that wasn't. I mean you. That was a dramatic different kind of. That was a dramatic change.

[Israel Keyes]

Not really. I. No.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Well, you could see what you were getting into with the guy. You didn't really know what you were getting into going into the house kind of blind. I mean, you had what you thought was there.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, that's true to an extent, but I knew. I knew enough about what was in the house that it was more than likely it would work.

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[Interviewer/Investigator]

Was that something new for you at that time? Is that a new.

[Israel Keyes]

Yes and no. I mean, I've broken to a lot of houses, but I'm not. That was kind of, you know, that's like a combination of a bank robbery and like how you do that kind of home invasion or whatever that, you know, that in and of itself becomes kind of an adrenaline rush, I guess, regardless of the outcome.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

But was that a new kind of adrenaline rush for you?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it was, you know, much like a bank or something.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

I mean, taking people from their house. Oh, right.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Yeah.

[Israel Keyes]

That was pretty.

[Podcast Host]

Stupid.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

I was gonna say bold.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Well, stupid isn't. I was wanting new. Stupid was, you know, goes without saying.

[Israel Keyes]

I mean, even from my perspective, I know it's stupid from your Perspective. Even from my perspective, that's kind of stupid. But no. Well, yeah, because the issue. There's just too many unknowns. It's better if you control the whole situation from start to finish. You control the location and if you wait at a location long enough, you and control who else is involved in the situation. Whereas if you go into someone's house, you don't even know if like for example, if the car runs or.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Or someone's home.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Israel Keyes]

There's just a lot of aspects to it. Unpredictable,

[Law Enforcement Agent]

but

[Israel Keyes]

definitely not as. Not as boring.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Well, that's what I was getting at. It seems like you are highly organized is what you were talking about. Planned. But then going into someone's house is a big unknown you talked about before. Basically stalking out a road or something like that. So you can basically choose who comes by, right?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. I mean, if you're in a remote location, statistically you've got a lot better odds. Especially nowadays everybody's got cell phones. The more people you have around, the more risk you are.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

How many houses would you say you broke into in total,

[Israel Keyes]

starting whenever? Yeah. I don't know, at least 20 to 30.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

But people not home?

[Israel Keyes]

Not usually, no. But you have never with that at 10.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

So you have broken houses with people home other than the couriers?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, just a purple, but it was more of like. No, the one time that happened, I don't even think I took anything, but it was.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Did you get. Did you leave?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Did you wake them up?

[Interviewer/Investigator]

No. Oh, you found out they were home.

[Israel Keyes]

It was. I don't make a rig a catbird when I'm too big of a guy. Floorboards creak too much. But it was more of a. No, I was thinking about doing that. Doing something else, you know. Obviously when I broke in, I knew there was someone there. I was thinking about other things, but I, you know, the situation wasn't right. And it wasn't. Wasn't as appealing, I guess, once I got inside.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So you just left.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Why? What'd you see that you didn't like? Too big. That's why I think that you. You know, and that's. That was one of your criteria before, so get in there. 300 pounder or.

Is there how many banks?

[Israel Keyes]

I haven't really done that many banks. Until the FBI to stand down.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

What if the note not gonna listen to me? What did the note say? Because I didn't think you had a note. I saw that you had a note.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I did have a note on that one. I don't even know why.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Yeah, because you had a gun to go along with it. But there was.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, there were more. I walked through the door. I wasn't even for sure I was gonna rob the place because I was kind of amped up anyway at that time.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

So

[Israel Keyes]

I. But yeah, I walked through the door and there were a lot of people. So I pulled my gun out, but then I already had the note and I was like, this doesn't make sense. I've already got the gun out.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

There's literally a picture where you've got note in one hand and gun in the other.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I was very undecided when I started that.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What does that mean?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Well,

[Israel Keyes]

I just. Yeah, I just wasn't sure there was the whole range of options that. But yeah, I mean, at the very least, I would have walked up to the counter with a note. But just the situation when I walked through the door, it seemed like there were a lot of people and I thought. And there were. I don't remember exactly what it was thinking that made me pull the gun, but there was. I know one of them was. There were quite a few people, and not all of them were behind the way the bank was set up. Not all of them were behind the teller's counter, so. So it would have been easy for someone to jump me from behind, potentially.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

I don't know.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Do you remember what the note said?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

No.

[Israel Keyes]

Probably the standard stuff, like, you know, no dye packs.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

The textbook standard.

[Israel Keyes]

Textbook

[Law Enforcement Agent]

poor man's bank robbery note.

[Israel Keyes]

No, I. Yeah, I was never. Because I went in there. When I went in that bank, I think I had all my guns. I know I had. Anyway, I. Yeah, I was. But at the same time, it wasn't. That wasn't a highly planned or staked out bank robbery, because I was. That wasn't the main reason.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Was that before or after you killed the person?

[Israel Keyes]

It was after.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

After. So you're pretty amped up. Do you find yourself more amped up afterwards or.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, in a lot of ways. There's kind of. You get like the invincibility complex kind of goes up before reality sets back in.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So not that many banks

[Israel Keyes]

then.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What was it? Convenience stores, Corner markets, bodegas?

[Israel Keyes]

No, I'm not. Believe it or not, most of the things I've done haven't really been for money, so.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Israel Keyes]

It's hard to make that defense when I did get quite a bit of money from pain. So that's not really.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

It's more of the adrenaline.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah. That was like psych.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

More than a dozen or less than a dozen banks?

[Israel Keyes]

No, it's less than a dozen.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

And how long you mentioned the adrenaline and the control. How long do you think you could go between adrenaline?

[Israel Keyes]

It's pretty variable. But you know, I can say in the last couple years. I was always able before to refocus on daily activities, if you will, and sometimes get pretty sidetracked by whatever was going on, projects or whatever. But it always comes back. It always.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Did it make it worse living up here where work slowed down in the winter and got dark in the winter and had to leave?

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, that was, I'd say Alaska definitely accelerated my outlook on life.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

So you've been more active since 2007 or so than prior to that, right?

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[Interviewer/Investigator]

When did it start, that feeling?

[Israel Keyes]

Since I've been in Alaska.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

No, when did you first feel like you needed that adrenaline rush? How old were you that first started?

[Israel Keyes]

Oh, I started breaking into houses when I was 13 or 14. As soon as I got into guns, basically I started breaking into house and I was into fire quite a while before that, so that was just like cycling.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

How old were you when you first burned something down?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, depends what you count, I guess. No, the first thing I burned down was a trailer, so I was about the same age, like 14, 15. I mean I had pyromaniac.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

No, something you weren't supposed to burn down.

[Israel Keyes]

Like besides my eyebrows?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Yes.

[Israel Keyes]

I don't know. I started a forest fire once by accident. That was by accident, but it was kind of one of those things. I was not sorry that I know it after it happened because it was pretty impressive.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

You don't want to get the force guys involved in this. They'll be all over it.

[Israel Keyes]

Send me a bill for that.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Oh, they caught you?

[Israel Keyes]

My dad, the train. No, I mean out where I was, fires were nothing. I start fires, you know, pretty much every time I go out to camp. Generally I wouldn't start the whole forest on fire. That was never my intention. I'm kind of outdoorsy person so I actually enjoy the forest. But I would, you know, if I found like old buildings and stuff that I thought I could get away with burning without anyone worrying too much about it. I mean that's almost like public service

[Law Enforcement Agent]

doing them a favor.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So that's something you've done. Did you ever use a fire to cover up a crime or something afterwards?

[Israel Keyes]

Well, yeah,

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Like a lito Burglar.

[Israel Keyes]

Oh yeah. That house just needed to be burned.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What was it that needed to be

[Israel Keyes]

burned in the past?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Burn houses up with bodies in them. It. What? I don't know.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Something that you're thinking about.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Definitely thinking about something.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Not gonna share with them.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Tell me what.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

What's going on around town? Yeah, they put some nice sculptures outside of the museum.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Really?

[Israel Keyes]

What?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

I wouldn't say they're nice. There are creepy things without moose. Without any hands or.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah, Legs.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Moose don't have hands.

Well, let me tell you, these statues should have hands. Creeps me out. I like looking hands.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

You might like them. Kind of creepy.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Yeah. Could always go by on the way back home. Back to jail. See them. But I think you'll concur they are

[Interviewer/Investigator]

not art

[Israel Keyes]

bought them. You study a broad term nowadays.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Yeah, that's right.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Alright. The other. The last thing we want to talk with you about is going back to. We had told you that when stuff is going to start to happen that we would bring it to you first. We got kind of sidetracked on some other stuff. We've mentioned several times now that there's pressure from above. Pressure from above. And like you said. I think you said earlier that we've got an understanding. And I think you're right. I think everybody in this room has an understanding of what. Where we're at, what we're doing.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Short of real progress.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Right. They view progress as names and bodies.

[Israel Keyes]

Right.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

That's pretty simple. One of the things that we have not done that had this been any other case and had it not progressed probably the way that it had, that we would have done sooner were searches of your property in New York and then a more thorough search of Kimberly house. Those are things that didn't happen early on that would have happened

[Law Enforcement Agent]

because things changed as we found things out. Our initial search at the house, we didn't know things that we found out later. And we didn't go back looking for things and getting things. Even the things that you told us were there because of the cooperation that we had. And we knew that that was something you didn't want to happen. Even though we were getting pressured to do that.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So we were.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Those are the kind of things that moving forward are without real progress are imminent.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

And speaking specifically about other crimes, we're not. We're not talking about Samantha, we're talking about other crimes.

[Israel Keyes]

You're saying you're going to try and get a search warrant for Kimberly's house based on what?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Well, we know that. We know that there's things that you took from the Alito fire there. You told us about that.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Well, I don't think we should be. I mean, they got search warrants for those two locations that they have to go forward on. So they wanted to make sure. We wanted to make sure. I said these guys got, you know, got to tell them that's going to happen because we told you we would tell you that.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

These are not things that we were pushing for by any means. These were things that were pushing, were being pushed from, like we said, folks that were not in this room, but folks that we answer to. So we have search warrants. They're going to happen. I don't know when they're going to happen, but we have them. They've been signed. The judge signed them already.

[Israel Keyes]

Who's doing the search?

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

FBI.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

But as you can imagine, that's when that happens. FBI. That's going to draw some media attention. We're going to keep it as small scale as we can.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Comments are going to be no comment, all of that kind of stuff.

[Israel Keyes]

But it's.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

People are going to. The media is going to see it. Neighbors are going to see it. If we can. I mean, we're going to do our best to keep it small, but

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

we can control our part. We can't control what other people. People see, basically, or what they, what they do with that. But the comments in terms of New York and in terms of here, nobody's going to be commenting anything. Nobody's going to be tying you to, you know, saying Israel Keys did this or Israel Keys did that or confirming anything.

[Israel Keyes]

Right. You're the FBI, so what are you looking for?

[Interviewer/Investigator]

They're looking for evidence of other crimes. Israel, they're diseases.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, right.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

They've held it all.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

And we're gonna, we're gonna cooperate.

[Israel Keyes]

You know, enough about my history. I don't know that you're not gonna find anything in that house.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

And that may be. That may be.

[Israel Keyes]

I mean, I can tell you I've already told you.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

We're gonna work with Kimberly to make it as in, you know, as convenient as we can to the extent that she'll, you know, let us. So, I mean.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, I hope so. I mean, I would hope you keep it to minimum impact because that's gonna have a direct effect on. I'm still in contact with Kimberly.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah, well, we tried. We reached out to her attorney to ask her to come in so we could tell her these things were imminent. And the message back from her attorney, again, we're talking about surgery for other crimes, ongoing investigations. Message back with her attorney.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

She just want, we didn't tell her why we wanted to talk.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

She just wants us to be over.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

We wanted to, we wanted to come in and just, and try to, you know, talk to her and let her know so that we would try to be nice about her schedule. Have a really good impression in the beginning of the.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, you could say that.

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[Law Enforcement Agent]

Yeah, so, so we, we are, we were, you know, we're trying to, to change that course but obviously it's got a bad taste. It's her mouth. Well, yeah, now she has an attorney involved in how that goes. You know how that goes.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

But she's, she's not wanting to talk with us so. Or meet with us. Well, and I'm not even saying talk with us, but in order for us, yeah. In order for us to be able to do this in a way the way that we wanted to do it was be able to sit down with her and go over it with her so that we can make it as minimal as possible, have the least amount of impact on her.

[Israel Keyes]

And so what asking her about where I keep my Stuff or something or.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

That's helpful. I mean, that's a pretty basic question that's helpful.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

What's yours, what's not yours, what's hers, what's not hers, Those kind of things, you know what I mean?

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

We're still gonna do that. We're still gonna try to do that. But our first attempt wasn't received. Well, but that's still. That's still our. Our intent is to. To do that

[Interviewer/Investigator]

anyway. We just.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

And then New York is the same. New York's a property out there, and it's gonna be FBI out there doing the same thing. It's not going to be locals that are involved in it. Same marching orders on their end. No comment, that kind of stuff. We certainly will keep you posted, let you know when and if there's anything that's taken.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

When. When it's done. All right.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Any question. I leave anything out that you can think of?

[Law Enforcement Agent]

No, I think we're good.

Okay.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

I got my perspective.

[Israel Keyes]

Well, we'll see what happens with that.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

We've been holding off.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

You know, telling them we think we can make progress, and that's why we've been coming over there more frequently and.

[Israel Keyes]

Right. I can. I can see a couple reasons why you would need to do the search warrants, but I'm saying, you know, needing to do them and then the reality of doing them can be. There can be a lot of.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Sure.

We realize that.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Yeah.

[Israel Keyes]

So, like I say, that's. I understand. You gotta push the paperwork, but the reality, you know, that's something different. So we'll see what happens.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

And I think it's a pretty rare courtesy of that they came in here and kind of just wanted to share it with you even before they searched. That has never happened in. In my years of law enforcement, ever.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Right.

[Israel Keyes]

I appreciate that. I appreciate that. You know, like I say, the reality is I would have found out about it regardless, so.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

Oh, yeah, we know that. But it was.

[Israel Keyes]

We told you, you know, right before it even happened.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

This is the agreement we had.

[Interviewer/Investigator]

So something that, you know is from everyone else's perspective, there hasn't been a lot of progress yet.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

And I guess it was, you know, a small part of our hope that we could somehow stave these things off by, you know, giving somebody more progress and making a report that, here's what we're doing, here's the other things, let's just hold off on things.

But that's worked so far.

[Israel Keyes]

That's right. You can only play those. Those cards so many times because they

[Law Enforcement Agent]

because they had seen progress and we were getting information. So.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

Thoughts, questions, anything? Okay. So Jeff and I will be over at some point. Like I said, we don't have, we don't know really what or when we're gonna do this, but we'll certainly let you know.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

All right.

[Law Enforcement Agent Jeff]

If anything's taken and all that kind of stuff.

[Law Enforcement Agent]

Okay. I'll get some people rounded up here. You gotta take the leads or anything

[Interviewer/Investigator]

before we get there.

[Israel Keyes]

Yeah, I

[Law Enforcement Agent]

and I'm going off tape. It is 1047.

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