Retrospective 1: The Ignition

Summary

True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation

Episode: Retrospective 1: The Ignition

Host: Josh Hallmark
Release Date: June 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this special retrospective, marking 10 years of podcasting, Josh Hallmark replays and reflects on his very first episode, originally produced for his series Our Americana. This episode, dubbed "The Ignition," focuses on the transformative power of living on the road—following the journeys of people who quit conventional lives to travel America in camper vans and RVs. Through candid conversations, Josh and his guests explore how van life changes one’s relationship with themselves, each other, and America, ultimately offering profound insights on community, self-discovery, connection across divides, and the redefinition of success.

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Main Themes

• The Road as an Incubator for Change: How travel upends expectations and creates space for personal growth, reflection, and connection.
• Challenging Cultural Narratives: Contrasting media portrayals of America with the everyday kindness—across communities and generations—encountered on the road.
• Intimacy and Challenge in Relationships: How sharing a tiny space intensifies bonds and communication.
• Rethinking Success & Purpose: Rejecting conventional career paths in favor of meaningful, courageous choices rooted in experience.
• Community, Curiosity, and the Power of Place: The diversity of American towns and how being in motion fosters belonging, adaptability, and empathy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Josh's Podcasting Origin Story & Life Transition

[01:09 – 14:42]

• Josh recounts his journey from a successful fashion-industry career in Seattle to podcasting in Brooklyn.
• Details his initial disdain for New York but eventual move for his partner, leading to six months of van life across North America.

  "By this time it was 2015, and I was now keenly aware of and terrified and fascinated by Israel Keyes. So I spent three months driving all over the peninsula, learning everything I could about this man and all the places he had been. It's where my obsession began." – Josh [13:00]

• Struck by the storytelling power of podcasts (This American Life, Serial, Radiolab), Josh considers shifting from writing a travel memoir to creating a travel-inspired podcast.
• The episode “Van Life” (now reshared) becomes the genesis of Our Americana, exploring small-town community dynamics—what happens when progress meets tradition, and how divided groups come together.

2. Van Lifers’ Reflections on Change, Self, and Solitude

[15:27 – 25:38]

• Alex (solo traveler): Chose the road to escape emotional numbness, seeking authenticity—even in discomfort.

  "I knew that this trip was going to happen because I felt numb to my life and I knew that I wanted to feel alive. And even if that was hardship, I wanted to feel that." – Alex [15:27]

• Learned to sit with negative emotions, experiencing profound highs and lows.

  "There's a big difference between, you know, feeling sad, being sad, and kind of giving into those emotions and just hopefully learning that just because it doesn't feel good doesn't mean that it's not okay." – Alex [17:05]

3. Favorite Places and Towns on the Road

[18:27 – 21:20]

• Highlights from various travelers: Haines & McCarthy (AK), Mendocino (CA), Petoskey (MI), Sun Valley (ID), and more.
• The unpredictability and charm of America’s lesser-known places.

  "Petoskey, Michigan was our favorite town, and that's just below the Mackinac bridge." – Josh [19:05]

4. On Pace, Presence, and Trusting Instincts

[21:20 – 30:24]

• The importance of slow travel—resisting the urge to rush and allowing places to leave a lasting impact.

  "Don’t let the idea of your plan or your itinerary keep you from staying a place that you love." – Advice relayed by Alex [25:57]

• Trusting intuition regarding safety, especially for solo women:

  "If something were bad to happen, the only reason I didn't move my car was because of a societal expectation that I was, you know, being irrational..." – Alex [29:41]

5. The Unexpected Kindness of Strangers

[32:12 – 33:17]

• Van life shatters cynicism about people; most travelers found Americans and Canadians kind, helpful, and open—regardless of geography or background.

  "I think that was like, the greatest life lesson for me is that, like, if you give people a chance, generally they are wonderful, kind, open people." – Josh [32:32]

6. Relationships Transformed by Road Life

[43:25 – 47:59]

• Jace & Giddy (married couple): Improved communication, deepened intimacy, learned to resolve issues.

  "After moving into the van it 100% strengthened our marriage...I think we know each other a lot more than we ever could." – Jace [46:33]

• The inability to run from conflict forced authentic communication.

  "You can't just slam the sliding door and sit out in the rain. You know, you gotta hash it out and it doesn't last as long if you do have an argument because you're right in front of each other." – Jace [47:29]

7. Difficulties, Adaptation, and Coming Home

[49:02 – 50:42]

• The post-trip transition is emotionally tough; adjusting to routine and city life can feel constricting compared to road freedom.

  "I was really surprised how hard it was to adapt back to normal life afterwards...it was really hard." – Josh [49:11]

• Many travelers find new connections with other groups (particularly retirees) and value the welcoming RV community.

8. Lessons Learned: Open-mindedness and Following Dreams

[57:07 – 59:54]

• Vulnerability and humility are gained from a life outside comfort zones.
• Fiercely pursue unconventional dreams despite skepticism.

  "If you have like a dream, go live that dream, like fulfill it, make it happen...If you get what you're working at and you get, like, you know, the thing that you really want or you're doing what you really want to do...I don't know if I've had happiness like I do now." – Jace [58:26, 59:54]

9. The Financial Realities of Van Life

[39:54 – 42:14]

• Frugality and hustle: Saving money, odd jobs, and flexible budgeting strategies are essential to sustaining long-term travel.

  "You can save so much more money than you think you can if you really put your mind to it." – Alex [39:54]

• Embracing “treat yourself” moments for sanity and joy.

10. Expanding Horizons & Redefining Success

[63:16 – 69:43]

• Jennifer: Explores all 48 contiguous states, inspired by National Parks and a desire to deepen her understanding of the country.
• Road travel as a bridge—connecting across political, cultural, and generational divides.

  "Travel as connection...you get that deeper sense of who someone is that lives in a different place than you." – Jennifer [64:16]

• Rethinking American narratives about career and success:

  "To me, seeing America and understanding, like, who Americans are and how you fit into that picture is an equal achievement to, like, calling yourself, like, senior manager at a bank." – Josh [68:35]

11. Memorable Road Stories

[72:43 – 83:28]

• Encountering the surreal (e.g., Pigeon Forge “the poor man’s Las Vegas”), eerie (mysterious ice cream truck in Alabama), and magical (the hidden “Big Fish” movie town in Alabama).

  "On this little island in the Alabama river is the town from Big Fish...It's the coolest thing. And there's, like, a herd of wild goats wandering around." – Josh [77:56]

• How shared adversity and novelty create lasting stories and personal evolution.

12. Life Lessons and Personal Growth

[80:24 – 83:28]

• Travel as an intensive course in humility, adaptability, communication, and perspective.
• Letting go of status in favor of resourcefulness and self-reliance.

  "Just because I had an important job doesn't really mean shit in the grand scheme of things." – Josh [81:54]

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "I knew that this trip was going to happen because I felt numb to my life and I knew that I wanted to feel alive. And even if that was hardship, I wanted to feel that."
  – Alex [15:27]

• "If you give people a chance, generally they are wonderful, kind, open people."
  – Josh Hallmark [32:32]

• "We only encountered, like, three assholes on the whole trip. Everyone else was wonderful and accepting and open...that was the greatest life lesson."
  – Josh Hallmark [32:37]

• "After moving into the van, it 100% strengthened our marriage, our relationship."
  – Jace [46:33]

• "If you have like a dream, go live that dream, like fulfill it, make it happen."
  – Jace [58:26]

• "To me, seeing America and understanding...how you fit into that picture is an equal achievement to, like, calling yourself, like, senior manager at a bank."
  – Josh Hallmark [68:35]

• On redefining status:
  "I just think like, yeah, so if I make X amount of dollars and...title on my business card, like, I didn't know how to make a fire. I had never been alone with my thoughts for 10 hours at a time...it doesn't matter."
  – Josh Hallmark [82:30]

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Timestamps of Significant Segments

• Josh’s Retrospective Intro: [01:09 – 14:42]
• Alex on Journey & Emotional Growth: [15:27 – 25:38]
• Favorite Places & Surprises: [18:27 – 21:20]
• Safety & Intuition: [29:41 – 30:24]
• Jace & Giddy on Relationship Change: [43:25 – 47:59]
• Kindness & Human Connection: [32:12 – 33:17]; [51:52 – 54:08]
• Financial Realities of Van Life: [39:54 – 42:14]
• Reflections on Success and Empathy: [63:16 – 69:43]
• Quirky America -- Odd Towns & Stories: [72:43 – 77:56]
• Life Lessons & Humility: [80:24 – 83:28]

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Final Thoughts

This retrospective blends compelling storytelling with earnest reflection, capturing the spirit of adventure and the lessons learned from embracing the unpredictable. The episode inspires listeners to question cultural scripts about “success,” trust in humanity, and the transformative value of stepping outside comfort zones. Throughout, Josh’s tone stays warm, curious, and inclusive—shaped by lived experience on the open road.

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Use this summary to explore the episode’s heart without missing its wisdom, humor, and the original voices of its adventurous guests.

Transcript

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[Alex]

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[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Like Jessica who saved hundreds spa weekend here I come.

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[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

This is a studio both and production. Hey everyone. This summer we are celebrating the 10 year anniversary of my podcasting career. I can't believe it's been 10 years. Over the next three months I'll be sharing 10 of the episodes that I feel best inspired, progressed and or changed my life in podcasting. So the episodes that guided us to where we are now and in each resharing, you'll get brand new behind the scenes information about what was happening in life, in my various investigations and in the world that impacted these very important episodes. You'll learn how I started podcasting, how I started investigating Israel Keys, some hilarious and terrifying stories from the road, and some really vulnerable and personal stories I've never shared publicly. You'll get to see and hopefully reflect on your own history, how so much of what has happened in my life and in each of the shows I've produced or participated in has coalesced into and molded who I am and what the podcasts and investigations are today. And for our first episode, we'll start at the beginning. Or at least a version of the beginning. Ten years ago, shortly after moving to Brooklyn, New York from Seattle, I found myself at a crossroads. I'd spent the previous six years living a fairly fulfilling and successful life in Seattle. After spending most of my 20s bouncing around the country chasing various dreams, ideals, notions, and sometimes even guys because we're all really stupid in our 20s, I ended up in San Francisco, New Orleans, Portland, Cambodia, and back to San Francisco before eventually moving to Seattle, a city I had never even been to for what was at the time my dream job. I worked in branding and inspiration in Fashion. I had various cloying titles like the Curator of Cool or Inspiration Manager. I was essentially in charge of creating environments that would inspire the designers. In 2011, I even took the design team to Nia Bay for a weekend to learn weaving techniques and tribal traditions from the macaw. A year before the world would know who Israel Keys was, I ended up leaving the fashion industry after a 2am work crisis. The entire team was in a conference room, someone was crying in a corner, someone was screaming. People hadn't slept in hours and I thought, all this for khaki pants. So after fashion wore me out, I eventually ended up at a non profit healthcare company where I found myself thriving. I believed in what I was doing. By this point, I'd never even listened to a podcast, let alone thought it might one day be my most fulfilling and longest term career. I fell in love with Seattle, and even more so the surrounding areas. I'd frequent the Olympic Peninsula, the Snoqualmie River Valley, Skagit Valley. It was one of the most beautiful places I'd ever lived and I was ready to find finally settle down there in Washington State. And then I fell in a different kind of love. I met my partner who had spent his entire life living in Washington State. As someone who'd only ever lived in one place for the most part, he wanted to try living somewhere else, A bigger city. And as someone who was two years into his apparel design career, that bigger city he wanted to go to was one I loathed. New York. So for years we debated where to live. As our relationship progressed, we debated whether to stay or go, whether there was some sort of compromise as best we could try. There really wasn't one. But Andrew did eventually come up with an idea. An idea that I'd much later realize was actually a long con. One I didn't think he was capable of. What if we bought a camper van, moved into it and traveled the country until we ran out of money or found a place we both loved? A few months later, we bought a Ford Econoline van from some hippies who communicated by making bird noises at one another. During our renovation of the van, we found secret and very strange love notes they'd written to each other and hidden throughout the interior. We also found that they forgot to tell us that the van had been salvaged and it was going to be nearly impossible to insure or resell at any given time in the future. In fact, all these years later, the van is hiding behind some trees in our backyard. Classy. I know. We took the van up to Port Townsend on the Olympic Peninsula to work on it. And we quickly learned that we don't thrive as a couple in construction environments. So Andrew worked on the van and I explored the peninsula. By this time it was 2015, and I was now keenly aware of and terrified and fascinated by Israel Keyes. So I spent three months driving all over the peninsula, learning everything I could about this man and all the places he had been. It's where my obsession began. Andrew literally built a new life for us, and I literally supplanted myself in the life of Israel Keys, not knowing that I too was building a life for us. By May of 2015, we set off on our van life adventure, and I ended up accidentally spending the next six months traveling to the rest of the places Israel Keys had been. As we drove from Seattle to Coeur d', Alene, I listened to my very first podcast. It was this American Life and I was immediately enthralled. I'd obviously heard about podcasts, but my general understanding was that they were either weird trivia shows or just a bunch of straight white men telling each other exactly. Or a combination of the two. But this, this was storytelling and it was inspiring and strangely healing. We spent six months, 44 states, four Canadian provinces, and a lifetime of lessons and experiences on the road. We listened to hundreds of hours of podcasts, Invisibilia, Radiolab, Generation Y, Serial, and so on. I went through a short term serial fixation where I was convinced that if I listened to the entire series enough times, I, by myself with Excel, could solve the case. A friend of mine would even mock me, saying, you think you, a writer with a computer, can find out stuff the FBI hasn't been able to? And then we both laughed at how stupid that sounded. We even spent the penultimate day of our trip in Baltimore as I forced Andrew to do drive time tests. And then in early November of 2015, we landed in New York and then ended up in New York. And I hated it there, even when I tried desperately to convince myself that I didn't. As it turns out, NYC is not great for cptsd. I couldn't find work. Most of the non profit healthcare companies were based in Albany. It was winter and frigid out and Andrew was already working at a small heritage apparel company in Soho. So I was alone and depressed and freezing. I'd been working on a book about our trip, but as the trip got further and further away from me and New York felt more and more ever present, I felt less inspired. I'd been daydreaming about this town in northern Michigan that we fell in love with while living on the road. Petoskey. It was this charming lakeside village full of vibrant people, hip shops and restaurants, and an odd number of people in their 20s, considering how remote and tiny the town was. I decided that I wanted to try to produce a this American Lifestyle podcast episode about Petoskey, and that if I was good at it and enjoyed it, maybe instead of writing a book about our adventure, I'd create a podcast about it, as I'm prone to do when I have an idea that I'm excited about and invested in. I didn't tell anyone what I was doing. I just started writing and reaching out to locals in Petoskey. The story slowly came together and then evolved and came back together, as stories often do. It was 2016, and much to my eventual shock, Trump was about to get elected. America was as divisive as ever. The economy was suffocating. It was harder and harder for young people to actually make a life for themselves that wasn't hand to mouth, especially in the big cities they once flocked to. And in Petoskey, Michigan, I found an interesting convergence of all these factors. Young people were returning to the town that raised them them, but bringing with them big ideas and culture. And for better or worse, depending on who you asked, the small and traditional Rockwellian town was being infused with more urban and progressive ideas. And so that was the theme of my very first podcast episode. How do we blend often competing ideas of what we think is right? And that simple question is. It became the basis for our Americana, my first podcast series. Instead of being about our trip across the country, it became about community. How community is built, evolves, struggles, adapts, survives. What happens when students take over a school? Who steps in when a town is without a police force? What happens when progress harms history? And how do you bring a divided village together? The answer to that question, it turns out, is a baby orca. So as we begin this retrospective into my 10 years of podcasting, I thought it apt to start where my journey began, on the open road. In this 2016 episode I produced for our Americana about people like Andrew and I who quit their lives to see America. The episode was originally titled Van Life, But before we start, I am so goddamn excited to announce our next Trova trip. Think for a minute. Imagine joining me, Charlie from Crimelines and a small group of studio both and listeners to talk podcasting. Bravo, Israel Keys, True Crime and Life. While, I don't know, swimming with sea lions and turtles, meeting tortoises and penguins and sipping cocktails on the equator in January. Yes, we are going to the Galapagos Islands from January 11th to the 17th. We are island hopping in the Galapagos on this once in a lifetime vacation and tickets go on sale today. The first eight people get $200 off. So click on the link in the show notes and come spend your winter with me and some new like minded friends in the tropical Galapagos Islands. And if that's not your speed, we are hosting an anniversary party here in the Berkshires over the weekend of September 25th, right before True Crime Bullshit returns with season eight. We'll be joined by a bunch of spirits special guests for live shows, studio sessions, previews, behind the scenes tours and talks, cocktail parties, and some of my favorite Berkshire based activities. So you'll get all the joys of podcasting, but also get to go out into this beautiful area and enjoy what I love most about it. For example, imagine going wine tasting in the Berkshires with Wine and Prime. Over the next few weeks, I'll be announcing a very stacked lineup of special guests along with the Weeknd's incredible agenda. Tickets will go on sale June 25, but are available for presale now on Patreon. And now let's get back to where it all started. A 1992 Ford Econoline van, a very shitty $35 microphone, not a single editing ear, and a persistent chirping fire alarm, and our crappy Bed Stuy apartment. Enjoy the journey.

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[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

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[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Download TikTok and check it out.

[Alex]

I knew that this trip was going to happen because I felt numb to my life and I knew that I wanted to feel alive. And even if that was hardship, I wanted to feel that. And I have found my life filled with so many emotions that I never felt sitting at my desk. I'm not good at sitting still and I'm not good at sitting within a feeling that is uncomfortable. And I think that that is a huge issue for so many people is that it's not that we numb ourselves, but we kind of numb ourselves with stimulation. When I was living in Seattle, I was constantly running around, going to see all my friends and see my family, and constantly being booked, you know, with the littlest things. And I was really kind of numbing myself to feeling, you know, something not good. And on this trip, I've really had to learn that there are going to be moments every day that I feel really alone and I feel really sad that I'm not sharing this trip with someone, but that sitting within those moments kind of makes the rest of it all worth it. And I've really been able to find a sense of peace. And I'm still working on it, you know, like, I still call my friends, like, crying every once in a while. But I think the biggest lesson I've learned is that there's a big difference between, you know, feeling sad, being sad, and kind of giving into those emotions and just hopefully learning that just because it doesn't feel good doesn't mean that it's not okay.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Our Americana is a weekly podcast where we explore small towns across the country and get to know the. The people who call them home. Join us as we head to some

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

of our most unique and charming communities

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

and talk to the locals about their lives, their histories, their relationships, and the stories that forever change them. Together, we'll discover how a community comes together and how it adapts and evolves when faced with the unexpected, the controversial, the bizarre, and the life changing moments. I'm Josh Hallmark and this is our Americana. Sam.

[Jennifer]

I'm.

[Alex]

Oh my gosh, there's. Yeah, my favorite spots the trip has been. There's a lot of different spots that I like for a lot of different reasons. Like, I really fell in love with Haines, Alaska because that was kind of like the start of the trip. And it was a great kind of launching point because I took the Inside Passage ferry from Bellingham up to Juneau and then up to Haines.

[Jace]

Mendocino, California. We really love. It's a great little town. It's kind of touristy. Definitely a little artsy town. Yeah, we definitely felt at home, like we could make a life there in Mendocino.

[Jennifer]

I have loved the missions of San Antonio.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Petoskey, Michigan was our favorite town, and that's just below the Mackinac bridge.

[Alex]

I loved McCarthy, Alaska, which is this small town where, where only I think, like 20 people live year Round, but it like just blossoms in the summer with seasonal workers.

[Jace]

But I'd say our two favorite states would probably be Oregon and Colorado. Maybe the northern part of California coast. Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

New Mexico, Michigan and North Carolina, best states.

[Alex]

So I think that in summary, In Haines, Alaska, McCarthy, Alaska, the Yukon in general, and now the icefields highway in B.C. and Alberta.

[Jace]

The whole like Napa Valley and then like the coast right there after the wine country is awesome. I really like Steamboat Springs, Colorado too. Thought that was a pretty rad place.

[Giddy]

Sun Valley. I like Sun Valley, Idaho too.

[Jace]

Yeah, Ketchum, Sun Valley, Idaho.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. We spent I think five days in the upper, which was gorgeous. Like, if I had to, I would say that was probably the prettiest section of America that we saw. Exactly a year ago, Andrew and I were sipping a glass of wine in a winery on Lake Ontario in the Niagara Valley, Escarp, Ontario's gorgeous, gorgeous wine region that rivals Napa Valley. We're just about to start our last week of our van life traveling the United States. So today I thought we'd check in with four other people who have just started their van life journeys, talk about how life on the road changes you, the way you see people and America and even each other. And maybe inspire some of you to take the plunge and live a life on the road that will forever change you.

[Alex]

Currently I am in Banff in Alberta, sitting in my van, just parked outside a coffee shop using some WI fi.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

I miss those like weird little moments where you're kind of doing things that feel totally normal in the context of your life but in the real world seem really creepy.

[Alex]

Yeah, like sleeping in front of like Walmart parking lots and like in the parking lots of restaurants and weird things like that.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Totally. I remember like waking up in the middle of the night walking from the Walmart parking lot in to use the restroom and just being like. It's so, so weird that this is a normal thing.

[Alex]

Yeah. It's also super weird when you're in the car and you have all the blinds closed and there's just people like kind of walking past your car or commenting on it because I have my solar panel on the outside. So I hear a lot of people talking about my car as I'm laying down trying to take a nap.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

This is Alex. She is also from Seattle and when we first talked, she had been living the van life for about four months.

[Alex]

So I had after college moved to New Zealand. I had gotten an internship in the South Pacific working in my field. And this whole trip of Kind of moving to New Zealand kind of got formulated as I was living in the South Pacific. And when I was there, I lived out of a Ford Falcon, which I don't even think they make those anywhere else in the world. And I don't even think they make those in New Zealand anymore. And I was living out of the car there in a tent. And I was tenting every night. And it was probably one of the happiest times of my life, just living with absolutely minimal amenities, just pitching my tent every night. And I started really contemplating that this life was really possible. Kind of living an alternative lifestyle like this. And I had seen a lot of vans in New Zealand that had these epic conversions. And I just had such van lust then that. That was kind of when I started thinking even more so, okay, if I was to do this full time, I really wanted a van. So I moved back to Seattle and got a job working full time for the government. And it was a really good job. It was just the dream job. I was working, working with marine mammal acoustics. I had been living in a city that I loved, that I knew, and all my friends were there. So it was just this really great kind of, you know, I was living that 20 something dream. You know, I had the ultimate job. And kind of as time started to wear on and one year turned into two years, and then two years started turning into three years, I started getting this really intense kind of gnawing at my heart that was like, this isn't exactly what I want to do. You know, I don't want to sleepwalk every day to my job, to my work. You know, I was just sitting in traffic, going to yoga to find balance, like running there. And it was just a life that I wasn't super happy with living. And so I knew for about a year that I wanted to quit my job and move into a car. And so I knew that kind of like in the back of my mind and as time kind of started to continue, I realized that I couldn't not listen to that, that I was gonna wake up with so many regrets if I didn't do this. So once I got the van was really when the whole trip started to kind of like come into my mind as being possible. And keeping in mind that I had lived out of a tent previously and found a lot of happiness and joy and that it was possible for me. So it took me about six months to tell my boss that I was leaving. And I knew for a little over a year, almost two years. I want to say Kind of like in the depths of the night that I knew I wanted to leave. So I guess that kind of long story, not short. I knew that this trip was going to happen because I felt numb to my life, and I knew that I wanted to feel alive. And even if that was hardship, I wanted to feel that. And I have found my life filled with so many emotions that I've never. That I never felt sitting at my desk.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

So did you have, like, a vision for, like, where you were going to end up when you left, or were you just kind of taking it day by day?

[Alex]

So I knew I wanted to head north because I'm romantic like that, you know? And so I was like, I want to go north. I want to go to Alaska. And Alaska has always, I think, seemed like a great destination for kind of the lost and the confused. And I think that that attracts a lot of people up there. And so I knew that I wanted to go north. I knew I wanted to go to Alaska, and I knew I wanted to come into Canada. And so that was kind of like where it just started. And I was like, I kind of just want to do this big circle where I want to go Alaska, the Yukon, British Columbia, Calgary, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, and swing back up through California. And I thought that this trip was going to be about six months, and I'm about four months in, and I barely made it into Alberta. So I don't think I'm going to finish, or I don't. I think the trip is going to change. It's changed a lot, which is great. And I got the best advice, actually, from a guy who was also living out of his car that I met in Volunteer park. And he had been living on the road for a few months as well. And he said, don't let the idea of your plan or your itinerary keep you from staying a place that you love. Kind of like, don't think like, okay, I need to get to Denver, or I have to get. Get to bamf. Like, if you're somewhere that you really love and you really love the energy of the place you're in, like, don't rush away from it because you think you have to be somewhere else, because you don't, that's, like, the joy of this trip. So the trip has kind of melt molded more where I had an initial idea of what I wanted it to look like. But now it's changed completely, and I'm definitely spending a lot more time in Canada than I had initially planned on, because Canada's amazing Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

It's so interesting. That was our biggest mistake. And it took us probably a good, like, month and a half to kind of get over that. Like, we don't need to rush through places.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

There's nowhere we need to be because we kept being like, okay, we've been here two days. We should go. We have all these other places to see.

[Alex]

Yeah. And you get so much more when you stay in a place for a longer period of time. You know, you get such a better sense of the energy of the town. And sometimes it's for better or what? Worse, you're stuck there. Like, I was in and out of Anchorage a lot, and I was there a lot more than I almost wanted to be. And now I know I don't really want to live in Anchorage. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but I just found out that that's not really a place that I want to stay. And then I kind of had to rush out of other places that I really loved. And I kind of regret that. That I didn't take more time in some smaller towns.

[Jace]

Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?

[Jennifer]

Really?

[Jace]

At a playground?

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Really? Look at these listings from dealers.

[Jace]

Wow, your search can really get that specific.

[Jennifer]

Really?

[Jace]

And you just put in your info, and boom, car's in your budget.

[Jennifer]

Mom needs a second, honey.

[The Zebra Announcer]

You can really have it delivered.

[Jennifer]

Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership. One sec, sweetie. Mommy's buying a car.

[Jace]

Mommy, look. I think your kid is walking up the slide.

[Giddy]

Kyle. Again?

[Alex]

Really?

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Autotrader, Buy your car online? Really?

[Alex]

I have been really lucky, though, that I haven't really had any super issues with safety, but I did recently. Just, like, two nights ago. Where was I? I was outside of Jasper somewhere, and I pulled into this campground. And, I mean, this was, like, not even a sketchy situation, but for some reason, I just, like, had to follow my gut. There was a guy that, like, came around and was like, I'm the firewood guy. And I'm, like, selling firewood to everyone. And I'm like, okay, I don't need firewood. And he's like, you really have the. The run of the camp tonight. Because no one else was in this campground. And I was like, yeah, I do. And he's like, last night, there was lots of people, and he wasn't like. It was a totally normal conversation. Like, there was no sketchy vibes. And I fell asleep pretty early that night, so super tired. And I woke up at, like, 10:30 at night. And it was pitch black, dark out, which I hadn't been accustomed to because, like, it never gets dark in the north.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And.

[Alex]

And I woke up and I was like, I need to move. Like, I am scared. Like, the campsite I was in, like, if somebody would have blocked me in, I wouldn't have been able to easily move or move out, you know? And I woke up and I just, like, listened to my gut and I moved. And I found a great camp, another great spot, like, by a different trailhead. And it was interesting because it was the first night that I really woke up, and I was like, I have to listen to my voice and trust it. Because I think that, like, if something were bad to happen, the only reason I didn't move my car was because of a societal expectation that I was, you know, being irrational or that I was being kind of crazy and paranoid. It's like, no, you can't put those labels on safety, especially when you're on the road.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Like, totally.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. We were in Asheville, and I think it was, like, the only time where I felt actively threatened. And we checked into our campsite and then drove around for the day and came back and we're watching a movie, and all of a sudden someone started punching the side of the van.

[Jennifer]

Oh, that's so scary.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. And it was like, we were in a pretty isolated. Like, we were in Asheville, but on the edge of town, and it was pretty isolated. And my partner, like, went out, and some guy who was wasted out of his mind in a truck was like, you take.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Took my spot.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And we were like, no, we reserved it. Like, we had the marker in our name. And he was like, I'm gonna kill you. And he was cussing and screaming, and, like, my partner had to go get. I think his name was like, critter or Animal? He was like, the guy.

[Alex]

Oh, I thought that was your partner's name.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

No, no, no. And then he kind of, like, I guess de escalated it and. But all night I was just staring through, like, the little slots between where, like, our window shade and the top of the window were watching this man in his truck being like, I've seen way too many episodes of Dateline. I know. He's just in there, like, drinking and getting pissed off, and he's gonna come out and, like, blow our brains out. But, yeah, didn't happen, thank God.

[Alex]

Yeah, that's still super terrifying. I got woken up once with a friend in, like, Crescent City, Oregon, at, like, three in the morning by a copy. And for some reason, that was, like, really. It was like, the best situation. Like, the cop was super nice. He was like, you just can't camp here. And I was like, this is parking. I'm not camping. And. But for some reason, like, getting woken up, like, there's nothing more jarring than somebody, like, banging on your home, you know, because it's like.

[Jennifer]

It feels like an invasion almost, you know, for sure.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

What still surprises me all the time is we. I guess I hate admitting this, but I guess I was a little cynical before I went on the trip. And my idea of people like Americans, but also just people was that they were assholes.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And we are constantly, like. We always look back, and we're like, we only encountered, like, three assholes on the whole trip. And everyone else was wonderful and accepting and open. And I think that was like, the greatest life lesson for me is that, like, if you give people a chance, generally they are wonderful, kind, open people,

[Alex]

and they'll surprise you. And I think that's. I was always amazed at how much help people were willing to give, like, to strangers. And I found that a lot in my trip in New Zealand and on this trip, too. Just, like, people. People being super, you know, kind, and just, like, helping me find, like, a place to park or, like, telling me the best kind of, like, local spots and all that kind of stuff.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

What's your favorite part?

[Alex]

My favorite part of the trip is these kinds of, like, moments when I'm driving and I come around a corner and I just see something that, like, makes me slam on the brakes and. And I think that that's, like, my favorite thing is, like, being like, what is this? How could this. So beautiful. And it's the surprise of it. I think that's my favorite part, the surprises that the road gives me.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. I always kind of liked when, like, something happened where we would, like, be stuck in a place. Like, we had to sit through two tropical storms.

[Alex]

Oh, man.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And it seems so annoying because you're like, oh, I want to get to where I'm going. We were stuck in Tallahassee, Florida, for a week, which is not a fun place to be stuck.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

But it was so nice to just be, like. Like, there's nothing to do in Tallahassee. So we just hung out in the RV park and, like, relaxed and played cards and just kind of checked out, which was so lovely.

[Alex]

That sounds really nice. I'm really bad sometimes at, like, sitting still with that, like, how I just, like, gave this whole, like, spiel about, like, sitting with, like, solitude and like, then, like, there are the days that I'm, like, kind of not stuck, but that, you know, like, I'm in a town, like, all day, and I'm like, I could just go sit with my book in the park and I'm like, or I could go for a run.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

You know, readapting to life afterwards is really challenging because you're so used to moving all the time and everything's new all the time, and then all of a sudden you're like, I'm stuck in this place, and my life is the same every single day, and it's challenging.

[Alex]

Yeah. I have no idea what my kind of adaptation to being back in the real, Quote, the real world, or, like, staying put for a long time will look like. I think it's going to be really challenging.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Are you going to go back to Seattle or.

[Alex]

I don't think so. And I. I thought for a long time about that, like, going back to Washington in general. But I've always defaulted back to Seattle and Washington because I'm really comfortable with it. And my family's there, and I'm very close with my family, and so it's always just been kind of safe, you know, after college, I was like, I'll just come back to Seattle. And I kind of wanted to take moving back off the table because it kind of then opened up. Opened up more doors for me to see where I really want to be versus where it's comfortable for me to be. And so I don't think I'll be back in Seattle, but you never know.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, we. I mean, we kind of had different ideas. My partner really wanted to move to New York afterwards, and I did not. So, like, the. I guess the surface thing was like, maybe we'll find a town on the way and fall in love with it and we'll move there. And, like, that was such a fun way to experience a trip. Like, every town you stop in could be a town that you lived in.

[Alex]

Yeah, there's like a million towns, though, that I want to move to. So that's, like, now that's my problem. I'm like, I want to really want to work in seasonally in Haines, and then I want to move to Canada. So there's now so many places that I kind of want to move. So where I actually end up will be interesting, I think.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Are you just going to keep going until you run out of money?

[Alex]

Yeah, theoretically. I think that I will start making decisions in the late fall, come kind of Thanksgiving, is when I'm kind of Giving myself a deadline to kind of figure a few things out. Because living in the van in the winter is really challenging. And this past winter, I took a van on a bunch of ski trips. And there was one weekend where I was just. Me and a friend were kind of stranded in a ski parking lot because, like a blizzard was moving through and we couldn't get down the mountain. And it was basically sleeting on us the whole time. So we were trying to dry out all of our ski gear, like in the van in front of the heater. And we couldn't really pop the top because it was too cold if the top was popped. And so it was. That was kind of the moment where I was like, okay, I don't know if I could live in this full time in the winter. So I guess the creature comfort I would miss there is a room to dry out clothing and. But so I think come late fall, I'll start figuring out maybe a place to migrate to for the winter time. And I have not given up on the idea of like moving to Australia and doing working holiday there. Kind of like what I did in New Zealand. And that'd be the perfect time because it's summer down there in the winter.

[Jennifer]

So just keep the dream alive.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

I mean, that's the thing we realized I was running out of money and Andrew was like, don't worry, you know, I just. I want to stay on the road. But after Columbus Day, we've realized it's harder and harder to find RV parks to stay in.

[Alex]

Oh yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And Walmart works great in the summer when you don't need to be plugged in. But like, in the winter, you know, you need to be running a heater.

[Alex]

Yeah. And I have a solar panel, so I think in winter it would be even harder because there's not as much sun and it's not as bright. So I think it could be really challenging. And RV parks are real expensive.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Oh, totally.

[Alex]

Yeah. I'm like, shocked, like, whenever I drive by them. And like, some of them are really gross. Like, you're just like right next to your neighbor. And I'm like, man, you guys are charging a lot to basically be in a parking lot with an outlet.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, it's funny, like we. The RV park thing, like, there was such a huge variance. Like we stayed in once some that felt like resorts.

[Alex]

Nice.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Like there was one where they would do like morning, it was in Arizona. And every morning they would do like a rodeo in the parking lot.

[Alex]

That's so magical.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And then one in Michigan. They had foam parties every night. So, yeah, like, it was just like, there was one that did karaoke. Like, it's so gimmicky, but in the most delightful way.

[Alex]

I cannot imagine an art like the peop. Like, in general, the people that I've met that, like, live in our. The RV parks, like, the retirees, like, I would just pay a hot dollar to them at a foam party.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

It's just, I don't know, like, RV culture. I love it because I felt like that was going to be scary too. But I think RV people put RV life ahead of all other, like, differences where they're like, you may be gay and democratic and we may hate that, but you're RV people, so we love you anyway.

[Alex]

Aw. Just people loving people. That's amazing, though. I have not really gone to an RV park yet. I've been really lucky with my solar panel being really efficient and being super sunny in general and kind of finding random places to plug in for a few hours. But I have a feeling eventually I go to the RV park and I'm going to email you about the foam party and rodeo one when that happens.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Please do.

[Alex]

The biggest question I get that I kind of want to touch on is the finances, like, of the road. And I get emails and Instagram, like, all the time, kind of almost every other day. And the majority of the question is always, you know, how much did you save? How do you make money? And it's hard for me to respond to each one of those because each question is posed a little bit differently. And I've just recently written something that I'm going to try to post on my blog about it. But I guess the thing that I would say for anybody that's contemplating, like, getting on the road is that you can save so much more money than you think you can if you really put your mind to it. And when I was preparing to go on this trip, like, I hustled for a solid year, you know, I was picking up extra yoga classes to teach. I was selling stuff on Craigslist, like, everything I owned. I was, like, flipping things on Craigslist. And you can do it with less money than I think you think you need you. And if you're willing to live kind of not a. I don't want to say a poor lifestyle, but if you're willing to kind of buy your food on, like, the made to clear stuff, and you are really vigilant about going to fruit stands and stuff like that, you can really stretch your budget by a lot. And then There will come the day when you have to pick up an odd job here or there or just do like a, like a work exchange where you just don't spend any money for a few weeks.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, I, like, I was a little irresponsible. I cashed in my 401k.

[Alex]

Oh snap.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Which honestly, I don't, I don't regret it now and I don't think I'll ever regret it. Like, it was such a good experience that it's worth whatever hell I may have to pay later on in life.

[Alex]

Yeah. And your life. And your life's so much richer now in so many other ways.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Totally. And like I. We were on the road just shy of six months and I had $10,000, but we were doing it like a mid budget way. Like we were staying in RV parks pretty much every single night. There were a few times where we were like, let's get a hotel for the weekend. And we were doing cities, so we were like paying for museums and eating out and.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

So, Yeah, I think like people would be shocked at how cheap it actually is to live that life, especially the way you're doing it.

[Alex]

Yeah. Except for when my friends come and it turns immediately into a treat yourself week. And I'm like, cocktails?

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Totally. You need those. We, I'm big on birthdays and we spent mine in Key West. And I, we spent so much money. It was so nice to feel like you were living a normal life again.

[Alex]

Yeah, fiesta.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Settle down, settle back, settle in.

[Jace]

Don't you know that we're gonna have

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

to work until we're dead?

[Jace]

I was working for Apple full time

[Giddy]

and I was working at a colonoscopy center, like a doctor's office. And then I taught yoga and that's it.

[Jace]

Yeah. So we were both working full time. So the better part of our weeks and days were spent at work instead of at home or with each other or outdoors.

[Giddy]

We lived in Jace's parents basement. They have like a little apartment, so we lived there.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jace]

Just living a pretty normal life of work every day and dinner at night and going to sleep.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

This is Jace and his wife Giddy. They had been on the road for about six months when we first started talking. I was really eager to talk to them about how van life had impacted their relationship.

[Jace]

So we had both actually talked about traveling full time, kind of hitchhiking style, traveling throughout different countries.

[Giddy]

We were planning on actually doing a backpacking trip in Europe was our original plan.

[Jace]

Yeah. And then we, we were looking at vans kind of as like It's a thing we've wanted to do off and on for years, since we were both like teenagers. So we, we would kind of check, you know, Craigslist, ebay, just kind of used listings for a van that we potentially could build out. But we really had our eyes set on backpacking Europe a bit. And then we stumbled upon a van for sale and decided to pull the trigger and go for it and convert it and live in it.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

So did you have kind of a path or did you just decide you were going to hit the road and see what happened?

[Jace]

Well, originally when we bought the van and started converting it, we decided that we were going to drive down to Argentina and drive through all Central and South America. But our businesses had both picked up, especially Giddy's business, she does handmade jewelry and it picked up and become quite popular. And we ship from the United States and we ship supplies to us as well. And so we decided that for now at least we're going to stay in the States. And so we made a plan to drive up to Alaska and back instead of Argentina and back. That way we're able to continue running our, our online businesses with shipping and receiving in the states. We left on Easter Sunday of this year. So I think that, I think that was March 27th. In that amount of time, I think that's five months. We've been Arizona and then Utah, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Alberta, British Columbia, Yukon, Alaska and then we went through, on the way back we went through all those same. And then Montana and Colorado.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Now I think the thing we were most afraid of is what it was going to be like living in a van with your significant other for a long time and like not having a place to escape to. How has it been on your relationship, if you don't mind me asking?

[Jace]

There's been good and bad. I mean like any living situation, there's great days, there's bad days, but overall it's actually been awesome. So when we were the previous situation, we described living in my parents basement apartment. We were renting from them. It was a basement, so there wasn't a lot of natural light. We were working all the time and we were just kind of stressed and so we actually, we had a lot harder time getting along then before moving into the van, wouldn't you say?

[Giddy]

Yeah, we didn't like to spend much time together, to be completely honest.

[Jace]

Yeah, yeah, we argued quite a bit when we spent time together before and after moving into the van. It 100% strengthened our marriage, our relationship. I mean there's definitely times you don't want to be 5ft from each other and you have those trying moments. But I think we know each other a lot more than we ever could. I mean, in the short amount of time we've been living in the van, I'd say it's probably the equivalent of several years in our normal at home, whatever relationship, how it would have been. We know each other a lot more and it's definitely strengthened our relationship.

[Giddy]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

If we were the same, we would have just these really vicious fights all the time. And then living in the van, you can't run away from each other. You have to work it out because you're stuck with each other. And I think also, like, it teaches you to communicate better.

[Giddy]

Definitely.

[Jace]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't just slam the sliding door and sit out in the rain. You know, you gotta hash it out and it doesn't last as long if you do have an argument because you're right in front of each other.

[Giddy]

Yep.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Well.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And I think also the little things that it's so easy to get caught up in don't matter because you're like, I'm seeing the world and every day is a new day. And I don't know, I think you just take. You take life a little more seriously or maybe you take it less seriously.

[Jace]

Yeah, it's almost a combination of the two.

[Giddy]

Yeah, totally.

[Jace]

Well, we set out without a. Without a plan. So we kind of had indefinite. Giddy is actually pregnant with a baby girl that we're giving birth to and about two and a half months. And so we'll be taking a break from van life for a couple months during that time, and then we plan on at least setting out again afterwards. What do you think, Gideon? Do you think we'll keep going?

[Giddy]

Yeah. Yeah. When you're already doing it. I don't know. You just don't. You can't imagine living any other way because there's just so much freedom and I don't know. So I don't think of living any other way. Like, I don't see a difference. I mean, we obviously. I don't know, someday maybe we might live in the house, but I don't know when that.

[Alex]

We don't know when that will be.

[Jace]

Yeah, that could be in a few months. It could be 10 years from now. Just kind of. Kind of feeling it out. I think for now we're happy where we are and want to keep continuing on with it.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, I'll say. Because we did it for six months. And I was really surprised how hard it was to adapt back to normal, normal life afterwards.

[Jace]

Really?

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, I was really depressed for probably like two or three months after. Oh man. Yeah, like I. It just, there's something about like when you escape all the like mundane social constructs of normal life, it's really hard to get back into them because you see them from a whole new perspective where you're like, I don't have to go to an office and I don't have to do these things. Yeah, it was really hard. And we're in New York now, which I think is also a lot harder because you're so used to like the quiet and I don't know, seeing new stuff every day. It was a challenge.

[Jace]

Yeah, definitely. I mean you visit a lot of like, you visit big places as you travel, but we prefer to stay in smaller areas. Like right now we're in Denver. We've been here a day, but we just got out of the mountains in a couple small towns before that I think we, we thought we were city people before and we definitely like some of the comforts of the city, but I don't know, I don't know if we could live in the city ever again. Yeah, it's cool to see that there's kind of, there's same people everywhere. I mean, there's nice people, there's rude people, but we're kind of blown away. Just like the generosity and the kindness of everyone that we meet. And it's just cool to see that no matter city or town or campground or whatever it may be, no matter where you are in which state or Canada or wherever we go, we've just run into the nicest people. It's been awesome to just be surrounded by positive, like minded people.

[Giddy]

It's crazy too because like a lot of them have also been like old people that are like retired, which I like could never, I've never felt like I could ever really to them because I'm like, oh, they, they have like

[Jace]

that, I don't know, life that they've already lived.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Giddy]

And also like their ideas to me, like they were always just very like close minded and stuff. But like after you meet all these different people and they're all like super open minded, super nice and a lot

[Jace]

of our new friends are actually retired RV travelers. Invite us to play bingo with them and wake up with the sleep and sit there on the beach. It's awesome.

[Alex]

Bird watch.

[Jace]

Yeah, we run into quite a few. I mean there's definitely a lot of young people doing what we're doing. But in the more popular areas, like all the areas we visited in Alaska that weren't, you know, we definitely had some solitude where we're the only people. But in the more populated areas it was us. And then the demographic was quite a bit older and we have quite a bit of a good number of older friends now that we have like minded agendas and lifestyles, you know.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, there's this strange camaraderie. Like I remember being in, I think Sault Ste. Marie and I was having a glass of wine and we were in an RV park and like I just started chatting with this guy next to me who was like 75 and had been in the military and was from like rural Ohio. And then he was showing me his trailer and I was like, this is so surreal that I'm like buddies with this dude just because we both travel in RVs together.

[Jace]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Jace]

It's common ground for sure. There was a moment in Alaska, there was a couple that we, we met there and they were, I think he said he was 81. I didn't catch how old she was, but they were in their rv, you know, beach camping on this near Homer, Alaska, out on the spit. And we spent probably like two or three days with them. But we would, in the mornings we'd bird watch with them with their high powered binoculars. They were very proud of. We'd get tips on how to drive in the sand and on life. Yeah, tons of life advice. It was much appreciated. A lot of it was pretty funny and kind of laughable, but most of it was actually really good advice. And I actually really respected the man for investing his time into us young folks, you know, to teach us what he had learned.

[Giddy]

He was so, he was so happy and always just like joking around too. So it just made you appreciate everything. Like there's something funny and joyful and everything. Cause it was all day, like every day he was just laughing and making jokes and he was just a happy

[Jace]

person, happiest person we've ever met. Yeah, it's cool. It was really cool to see that because I, I don't know, I've always kind of, as I've been aging, I guess you could say I'm definitely still young, but I kind of don't want to get old. And I've never really had a reason other than like physically I won't be able to do the things that I can now. But I mean that guy, he was pulling a dirt bike behind his RV and he was 81 years old. And that guy gave me hope.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

What was some of the advantage he gave you?

[Jace]

Most of it was relationship advice about how to treat each other with respect and kindness. And, you know, arguing is never worth it. Most of the time when you start arguing, you forget why you even started. And it just continues.

[Giddy]

Making decisions together, always.

[Jace]

Yeah. Not going behind each other's backs to make decisions, just working as a team, as a pair of, like, in everything we do. And it was interesting because I think Alaska was kind of our realization point as well, since we set out in the van. Like, to us, in the beginning, it was kind of a trip. Like, we're on a trip. We're on a big road trip. And in Alaska, it was a few days after meeting that man. Actually, we were in another area. We just had, like, a night where, you know, Giddy was drawing and playing guitar, and I was editing some photos, and we were both just kind of doing our thing, and we weren't on a road trip. It was. It was the first time we realized that, like, this is our life and that we do make every decision together, kind of as he was advising us to do, that we're always together. We make every decision together. And that we're not just on a road trip right now. Like, this is our current lifestyle, and we're doing that together. And that was a really cool. Really cool night because we both realized it. Talked about it that night.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, those are always the. Like. I remember when we had that same realization. We were at Lake Powell, and we just. We had, like, the coolest camp spot, and we opened up the doors and just looked out over the valley, and there were, like, wild rabbits running everywhere. And we, like, poured a glass of wine and just sat there, and we're like, oh, my God, this is our life.

[Jace]

Yeah. Like, how cool is that? You know?

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

What's been your worst or scariest moment so far?

[Jace]

We haven't had too many, actually. Someone asked us that the other day, and we stumbled to answer it. I don't know if we've had a scary moment. I guess the scariest moment we've had was on the freeway. Our brakes gave out. One of our brake lines sprung a leak, and all our brake fluid just in one go, just completely emptied out. So we had to. You know, we had to slam on our brakes because the traffic, it just gave out. There was no resistance. No brakes were activated. And so I had to swerve the van off into the shoulder, like in the gravel, and just let it kind of roll to a stop. And Then slowly limp our way to a brake shop where we stayed for four days. Was it? Yeah, we stayed for four days waiting for our brake lines to arrive because apparently it's a rare part that not a lot of people carry. So that was, I mean that was a scary moment, but kind of more in a close call moment. Not like some dude trying to kill us outside our van moment. But it was definitely scary in its own way. I was scared. At least my heart was pumping. That was probably our least fun time of living in a van was we lived at the mechanic shop for four days. Yeah, we definitely tapped out our movies and all our snacks and. Yeah, it was a little rough weekend.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

It was hot.

[Giddy]

It was really hot.

[Jace]

Yeah, that was up in, just outside of Park City in Utah. And that was maybe a month ago. So it was middle of summer. It was pretty spicy hot outside.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, ours broke down in Las Cruces and that's when we realized like, oh, when your car breaks down and your car is your home, you become homeless.

[Jace]

Yeah, it's a little more rough than I think people realize or would imagine it being.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

So what do you think has been your biggest life lesson from your time on the road?

[Giddy]

I feel like for me, I thought I was really open minded before, but I feel like as we travel more and more, I feel like I become more and more open minded and more and more accepting. I don't know, like people, you. We always like categorize people into different types of people, I guess. Like, you know, like van people are like these hippies and they're bums and they're smelly and whatever.

[Jennifer]

But I mean, we're not.

[Giddy]

So I don't know, like when you see and you recognize that people aren't like us, for example, we're not what everybody thinks that we are. Like, it makes you like, you change your ideas of other people too because like, well, I'm not like that. So that's probably like this idea I have of this type of person is probably not like that at all. So I don't know, I'm just. I feel like I'm more open minded. For sure.

[Jace]

I would say that for me the biggest life realization is that. And this sounds so cheesy and corny, but if you have like a dream, go live that dream, like fulfill it, make it happen. And even if it sounds funny to live in a van as a dream, like, a lot of people laugh at that, but like that was a dream that we had, you know, and we made it happen. Like we started companies so that we could fund our travels on the road. And we started a year ahead and built them up. You know, now we live on that, and we only work one day a week. We still pay our taxes like everybody else. We're not, you know, living off the system or government cheese or anything. I don't know, because a year ago, you know, like I said, we were both working full time. It didn't seem like there was any other way. It was like, well, that's what you do. That's what everyone does, because you have to pay for where you're living, pay for your car, and pay for all this other stuff. We've kind of just made it happen to where. We choose our own schedule. We choose where we want to go. And I think that's. I don't know. Now I'm just rambling in circles. But I think the biggest life realization is that your dreams are dreams for a reason. And when you make them a reality, that's happiness, true joy.

[Giddy]

It's a lot more attainable than you would think it is. Like, when you're in it, you realize you're like, oh, my gosh, why didn't I do this years ago? It's so easy, and I'm so much happier.

[Jace]

Yeah, definitely. Moving forward, whatever crazy idea that seems unattainable that we have, we're just gonna try it. Because if you fail, whatever, you know, you move on or try it again or whatever. But if you get what you're working at and you get, like, you know, the thing that you really want or you're doing what you really want to do, it's. I don't know. I don't know if I've had happiness like I do now. It's just really nice to know that we're doing exactly what we want to do when we want to do it.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. There's something really pure about it, and I agree. Our time on the road was probably some of the happiest time of my life. Just because you're living your life for yourself, like, you're not worried about doing things to placate other people.

[Jace]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

So you're in Denver now. Where next?

[Jace]

Well, we'll be in Colorado a couple weeks. Is that right? Yeah, probably a couple weeks. So Giddy's jewelry business is called Carteo Handmade, and we actually have a pretty big show that we're doing in Arizona. We're part of, like, a big jewelry fashion expo that'll be happening down there the first week of October. And so we're gonna Go down to Arizona a couple weeks ahead of time or maybe three weeks ahead of time to kind of prepare for that and get a booth assembled and inventory made for that show. So after probably the next couple weeks, we'll head down to Arizona and that's where we'll stay for the remainder of the year. As you know, the child is born and we kind of rest and recoup.

[Podcast Producer / Narrator]

Great.

[Jace]

And then I, I don't know after that we, we've talked about going south, but we might cruise the east coast of the United States.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

How are you preparing or have you even gotten there for doing this with a baby?

[Jace]

Yeah, we haven't really prepared much. We have ideas like we're, we're gonna kind of change our van layout a little bit to accommodate a third season seat, you know, that's safely and securely bolted in and a crib area. We're kind of changing things around. That's another reason why we'll be in Arizona the rest of the year, swapping things out, improving the van physically. As far as the layout and furniture and everything. As far as preparing ourselves, we haven't done that. We don't know where to begin. We're kind of just winging it. No, we're excited though. It'll be good. We're just, we're excited to raise a kid outside, raise a kid out in the wild and to kind of be open minded and learn from travel and culture and people.

[Jennifer]

I think I got Inspired by the 100th anniversary of the National Park Service. I love the national parks and really wanted to explore more of them. Once I heard about them having about 411 sites where I only thought there was 59. So I really wanted to explore more of the American culture and history as well as the nature. So I think that's what got me started and that's what helped me decide to do 100 National Park Service places. And that led me to think that I should just go ahead and try to hit all the states in the continuous United States.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

This is Jennifer, who's based out of Fort Worth and has spent the majority of her summer taking mini trips throughout the state of Texas while getting ready to embark on her cross country trip. We kind of did it the other way around. We were more inspired by checking out all the cities because I feel like as Americans you can only travel so much and there's so many places that you would never just take vacation to go to. And so we were like, we need to check out cities like St. Louis or Memphis, places you wouldn't otherwise go. And then obviously on the way we passed by tons of national parks. But I thought was so cool is just especially now. And I don't, I don't like to get political, but like the America and seeing on TV is not the America we encountered out on the road.

[Jennifer]

Oh, so true.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

That was really inspiring to me. Especially like two gay dudes, like living in an RV in Mississippi. Like the idea of how you would be perceived was so different than how we actually interacted with people.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, no, that's a great point. I think that I do see travel as connection. You know, you really get that deeper sense of who someone is that lives in a different place than you. And also, just pictures don't do the places or the national parks justice. I think there's such a deeper sense of place and meaning when you go visit those places. So I totally agree with it being different than this kind of maybe almost surface level conversation happening in the media. And just to get to explore the depth. I'm so thankful for that. So you've actually caught me kind of before my year of 48 state starts, I will begin exploring other states starting in November. So past few months have been about Texas, just connecting to Texas history and understanding my state better because I think that's so important. You know, my tagline, I guess is like, broaden your backyard. And so starting with where you're from and understanding the people around you better I think is really, really important. But yeah, ultimately I have four trips, bigger road trips planned because obviously I can't keep coming back to Texas every time. So one of them is to the Southwest and doing the Four Corners region. And then one is the Gulf coast and doing more of Texas to Florida and then up to, you know, South Carolina and North Carolina. And then one is the Great Northern, what I call it, and it's 28 states in the summer, the whole summer. It's basically this line across the country going through the middle of it horizontally. And I'm going to explore the 28 above that line.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

What are you most excited about?

[Jennifer]

There's this one place that I've really been fascinated by in Oregon, and it's the Lewis and Clark National Historic Site. I think I've always been kind of fascinated by their journey and story about discovering America and well, not discovering America, but, you know, like seeing going where maybe America, Americans hadn't gone before. And I'm really fascinated by their journey. And up in Oregon they have where they finished the route, they made it to the Pacific Ocean. And yeah, I'm just really. I'm really excited to go there and learn more about their story and maybe even recreate some of their route. Yeah, just seeing. Seeing that northern route, you know, when

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

talking about our trip, like, inevitably there's someone who says, I've always wanted to do that, and I always think, like, just do it. Because, you know, I had felt that way, too. Like, I had always wanted to do it until I did it. And then when I did it, I was like, God, this was so easy. Why didn't I do this years ago?

[Jennifer]

No, I think there is that kind of mental barrier. You're like, this is not done, and what am I doing if I go do this? You know, what does that say about me? And maybe even my career aspirations or that sort of thing? But I totally agree with you. Just go do it. I think that you learn so much about yourself and about other people and about the environment and your surroundings that it definitely makes up for any lost career benefits or, you know, that sort of thing. Obviously, being responsible is incredibly important, but I definitely benefited from exploring the United States and learned so much more about history and what it means to me to be an American that, yeah, just go do it. I totally agree with you.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

It's funny, like, I think being a product of the 80s and 90s, we were taught to kind of have a singular vision of what success looked like. And I think when we break from that, because either we don't fit into it or we want something different, we feel really guilty.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And that bums me out because I think, like, success has many different looks. And to me, seeing America and understanding, like, who Americans are and how you fit into that picture is an equal achievement to, like, calling yourself, like, senior manager at a bank.

[Jennifer]

No, I completely agree. I think, you know, both teach you different lessons about life. It seems to me that traveling has bigger life lessons surrounding values and these deeper places in self. I've had different jobs where I felt, yeah, more. More like this is just your task and that's what you complete. Rather than using this exploratory gift of curiosity that we have in finding yourself and in finding what you get to what you can offer the world, I found that's kind of what travel has helped me with, is what is it about you that really can connect to other people? And how do you want to kind of bring that out?

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And I almost wonder if that's what creates the RB culture that we experience, which is when your life is about traveling, you have a better appreciation for people. And you're able to look beyond, like, political or religious or just, you know, cultural views because you realize, like, that was my biggest lesson was. And I never felt that I was this way, but I saw the world very black and white before our trip, like Republicans or Democrats or, you know, like pro gay or anti gay. And there was no room for flexibility in the middle for me.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And I realized maybe people disagree with me, and maybe people disagree with me being gay, but that doesn't mean, like, we can't find common ground. And I think on the trip I really learned to be like, you know. You know, like, I never thought I would appreciate a small town in Alabama.

[Alex]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And then, you know, you get there and you're like, small town. USA isn't a scary place. And it isn't unaccepting and it isn't not progressive. Like, you just learn to see the world in a more dynamic way, I think, and value people in a very different way.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, no, I agree. It's kind of like you see the multi dimensionality of people. You know, you can disagree with them on something, but then also really connect with them on something else. Whereas most of the time you may not have that opportunity to get to know that something else that you connect on if you just kind of see how the media portrays a certain aspect. So, yeah, it's that. That depth and recognizing that you're both experiencing human life and you can definitely connect on at least something, even if. Even if your lives look completely different.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

When your trip is over, do you think you'll go back to Fort Worth?

[Jennifer]

I don't think so. I think I will end up in Tennessee. The Appalachians are just probably my favorite area in the country. And I'm actually back in Fort Worth just to take some classes in graphic design. So I'm hoping that I can use these new skills and figure out how to translate them into living in Appalachia. And Appalachia, I have to start saying it correctly. So that's kind of my ultimate plan, is to end up in that region.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, we. The only part of Tennessee Appalachia we saw was Pigeon Forge, which is where Dullwood is. It's so weird because it's like the poor man's Las Vegas in the Smoky Mountains.

[Jennifer]

Oh, my gosh. Pigeon Forge. I have this. The craziest experience there. We were driving from the Great Smokies or, yeah, the Great Smoky Mountains national park and driving to, I think, Knoxville, and it's on the way and we saw all the neon lights and the sun was setting and we were like, where are we? I honestly thought there was only, you know, these tiny farming communities in that region. But Pigeon Forge was a wake up call. It was just the Las Vegas of the east. And I had no idea that that existed until stumbling upon it.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

It's so off putting because you're driving through, like, some of the most beautiful scenery in America. And then you, like, round a bend and it's just neon lights and, like, the tackiest architecture ever and a giant cross, like, up on a mountain above it all. It's so weird.

[Jennifer]

It is. And you kind of wonder how. How did this pop up here? I mean, I was confused. Yeah. But I'm. I'm still. I still want to go to Dollywood. You know, I have this curiosity now with this place that people talk about. So I'm definitely gonna have to head back to Pigeon Forge and explore it a little bit more. Because I was baffled.

[Giddy]

Baffled.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

People always ask, like, what's the scariest place we went? And my boyfriend and I disagree. But for me, it was pigeon forage by far.

[Jennifer]

That's amazing.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's so different. It's so different. I think there was a state park in Alabama that I felt like was the scariest place. I guess it was near Mobile. It was an off day. So just during the week in September, my friend and I were camping and we. There was only two. Two different campers, us and a ice cream truck, like, legit ice cream truck that kind of was an old ice cream truck, but the paint had faded. And they were pulled into this parking spot next to us. And they had a TV on in the front seat where it was just black and white, you know, the static. So nothing was actually on the tv, but it was on and it was static. And we never saw a person ever. It was just the ice cream truck with this static tv. And I thought we were gonna die. Yeah. What was happening with that situation? Oh, man, it was so scary. And what didn't help was when the sun started setting, raccoons would come out and they would be on their hind legs, and they probably were not rabid. But that is the image that comes to my mind when raccoons are walking towards you just on their back legs. Just these rabid raccoons. Oh, man. We got in the tent and just tried to tell funny stories. And like, yeah, we stayed, but, man, that was a scary. Could have been more scary, but it was still a scary situation.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah, I feel like that's on par with, like, the clowns that hang out in the woods.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I was. I was waiting for a clown to pop out for sure. And that would have been. I'm not even sure what we would have done. But, yeah, it was. It was scary. It was scary. It definitely seemed like it was a scene out of a horror film and that we just were not aware of the plot line, just ourselves. But ultimately, it was fine.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

One of the coolest places we saw was in Alabama, and it may not have any meaning to you. Have you seen the movie Big Fish?

[Jennifer]

Yes.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Okay. So outside of Montgomery, that little town still exists, untouched.

[Jennifer]

Really?

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. And so you. It's the strangest thing. Like, you have to. I did a lot of research to find out. You basically drive out of town, and then you, like, drive on a dirt road along the railroad tracks, and then you cross a little bridge onto an island in the Alabama River. Yeah. And then there's a gate, and you basically have to press a button. And then a video camera comes on and watches you put $5 into, like, a change collection box.

[Jennifer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And then a phone rings, and you answer the phone, and some man just gives you a code, which you then dial into this gate. And then the gate slowly opens, and you drive like, a mile out on this, probably half a mile, like, dirt road further into the river. And then you cross, like, another little bridge onto another little island. And on this little island in the Alabama river is the town from Big Fish.

[Jennifer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

It is the coolest thing. And there's, like, a herd of wild goats wandering around. It's the coolest thing in the world.

[Jennifer]

That sounds so cool. I think my ultimate goal with Tree of Travel is just to get people out there and explore the country. I think that, you know, this conversation that we've just had is one of the many benefits that you get from traveling. You just get to connect with other people who have seen cool things and done cool things and gotten to share in that experience. So not only do you get to connect with people on the road, but, you know, you have this bank of stories and knowledge that you get to connect with people forever after. That, I think, would be my ultimate push to get people out there to see the States and. Yeah. Explore. Explore the backyard that we get to call home.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. No, I agree. I think there's so much of America you don't get to see, and that sounds vague, but in the sense of, like, roadside attraction culture and state parks, or even just, like, small towns that are really unique and really charming that you don't even know exists. And you never would unless you lived your life on the road.

[Jennifer]

There's a kind of cheesy song about that where it's just the flyover states. Right. And there's so much to the flyover states that I think people, they would love if they had the chance to kind of go explore them and figure out more about America. There's such a freedom that comes with

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

living on the road, and it's dynamic. Like, every day you're in a new place and you're encountering new people, and you just don't feel stagnant at all. You feel like every day your life is changing a little bit.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, that's true. And you can kind of, like, see it. I really enjoy writing journals when I'm traveling just to kind of reflect on where I'm at in both place and mentally. And I feel like the. That's the coolest thing about traveling, is that you actually get to see that progress, that you're moving forward with your life. Things aren't as important as they seemed, and other things become a lot more important.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

What's so crazy to me is we. Our relationship sucked before this trip. Like, this trip was kind of like, we even had a conversation. Like, we need to decide what happens after this trip, because there's a good, good chance we're gonna break up before this trip is over. And then, like, being in a car with someone really changes the way you relate to that person, like, for a prolonged period of time, obviously, because there's nowhere to run when you have an argument. You have to, like, sit in that

[Jennifer]

argument and have the conversation.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. And like, like, we. Our communication skills improved so much.

[Jennifer]

I feel like there's so many life lessons that are overlooked in travel and just kind of touted as this, like, escape mechanism where that's so not the case. You learn all of these really important life lessons, like taking action and asking for help. I think that's a huge one too, where that's not really encouraged and you have to ask for help because sometimes you have no idea what to do. So that's the only way you can move forward.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. I think it teaches you a lot of humility, and it really kind of shows you your place in the world, which beforehand, I had, like, a great career and I was making a lot of money. And I think from that. I hate admitting this, but I felt a little bit of not better than. But.

[Jennifer]

No, I get that.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Yeah. And I didn't realize it at the time until I was on the road and was like, just because I had an important job doesn't really mean shit in the grand scheme of things.

[Jennifer]

I think we're definitely taught that it does. Where jobs are kind of, they define your worth as a human. Rather than they just provide the necessary things you need to survive, they're given a lot more meaning, a lot of which I don't think is healthy because it becomes like this hierarchy of value. Who's more valuable?

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

And I just think like, yeah, so if I make X amount of dollars and you know, have this title on my business card, like, I didn't know how to make a fire. I had never been alone with my thoughts for 10 hours at a time. Like, there's so many things that just like, it doesn't matter.

[Jennifer]

I went to survival school in Utah and I had to learn how to make fire from sticks. And I was so bad at it, I could not figure it out. And everyone else had figured it out and it was so infuriating, I just wanted to quit. You know, I was just like, this is not, this is not something that I need to know how to do. You know, I just had this like horrible attitude about it. But I realized that, you know, maybe this is the most important thing I need to know how to do. You know, fire is nature's gift in that we're able to recreate it. I mean, come on, that's powerful stuff.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Or on the flip side, like, I learned to not only appreciate, but get excited about a four dollar bottle of wine.

[Jennifer]

Yes, that's exactly it. You get to like find the things that are good for cheaper.

[Podcast Host (possibly Josh Hallmark)]

Since it's been about six weeks since I'd talked to Alex and Jason Giddey, I reached out to see what they've been up to in the time since our conversation. This is what Alex had to. Since we last chatted, I continued on my journey through the wild lands of Canada, Land of the A. I migrated down south to Colorado where I met my dad and grabbed my new loyal sidekick to Kitna, my two year old German shepherd. Now armed with the best girl in the world, we headed back up to Canada to explore Kootenai and Yoho national parks. The weather was holding out fantastically and while it was getting cold at night, during the day we were able to explore the wild and vast alpine of the parks. Over the next few weeks, Tally and I migrated further south, stopping at hot springs, small towns, New Denmark. Denver is the cutest town I've been to in a long time. And meeting wonderful characters along the way a little over a month of being on the road together, life in the van got a little difficult. The loneliness started to set in. I wasn't connecting very well to myself or to what this trip was about. I mulled it over for a few days and tried to persevere but eventually I ended up heading to my parents house for a little restart and refresher. I've been here for about a week now and tomorrow me and Tally are headed to down to Bend to go rock climbing with friends. Fall in Northwest has been amazing, but looking forward we're going to explore Utah, Arizona and Southern California. I've never seen a landscape like the American Southwest. Huge red spires jutting towards the sky or canyons that you can't see the bottom of. Coming home was a good choice and asking for help was a better one. Stopping and now restarting allowed me to come back to the road with a fresh head, heart and playlist. Jace and Giddy have experienced some even bigger changes. Here's what they said after chatting with you in Denver we stayed in Colorado for a couple weeks after leaving the Denver area. We explored Garden of the Gods for a day before heading more southwest. In Colorado, there's an interesting attraction a few hours southwest of Denver. It's called Bishop Castle. You have to look up all the details, but essentially Mr. Bishop spent his life building his own castle by himself. It has towers, windows, spiral stairs, a moat and a drawbridge. The real deal. It's pretty interesting to say the least. After Bishop Castle, we visited an awesome wolf rescue sanctuary called Mission Wolf. It's a must do if you're visiting Colorado. We loved it. We stayed a couple days camped out right at the property. The staff is super friendly and welcoming. You can camp right there or stay in one of their many teepees on the property. The wolves are magical, really awesome creatures. You get to see them on a tour and if you're lucky like we were on our visit, there are few you can actually meet and mingle with. At the end of the day you fall asleep to the sound of the wolves howling. Following the wolf sanctuary, we stayed a few days on our cousin's farm. They grow several different crops and have dogs, horses, cows, cats, chickens, etc. We we loved riding quads, exploring Indian ruins, learning about crops and irrigation and taking care of the chickens. Nothing beats fresh farm food and seeing family. If you haven't seen them in years, it was awesome. We left Colorado and made our way to Arizona in preparation for having our baby girl. We've temporarily moved into a small apartment so we have some more spacious, comfortable place to bring her into the world. Our plan is to make a few changes in the van to safely accommodate the baby girl before hitting the road again. We plan to stick around in Arizona and spend the holidays with family and then set out for a new journey on New Year's. We're stoked to get back on the road. You're right, the transition has been rough. We miss waking up in a new place of rimwol. You.