True Crime Bullsh**

Episode: S7 Prep: WA Does
Date: September 25, 2025
Host: Studio BOTH/AND, Josh Hallmark

Episode Overview

This episode launches a two-part investigative deep dive into the unidentified "Does" (John & Jane Does) in Washington State whom serial killer Israel Keyes may have murdered. Drawing on years of research, FBI files, and forensic data, host Josh Hallmark and collaborators Kaz and French highlight the painstaking work of using crime databases, maps, and local records to try to connect missing persons and found remains with Keyes' known actions and operating methods.

The focus is especially on two Doe cases—Lake Tapps Jane Doe and the Elwha Doe—as well as several others whose circumstances profile as possible Keyes victims. Throughout, the episode reflects on the heartbreak—and systemic issues—surrounding unidentified remains, law enforcement resources, and the cruel reality faced by families of the missing.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Human Cost of Unidentified Victims (05:55–07:50)

• Hallmark introduces the emotional and investigative weight of the unknown victims in the Keyes case.
  • "Perhaps the most compelling and significant aspect of the Israel Keyes case for me is that of the many victims who...are both missing persons and John or Jane Does." (05:55)
  • He references Louisa May Alcott: "Many of the bravest never are known and get no praise, but that does not lessen their beauty."
• Statistics underline the vastness of the problem:
  • There are 78 unidentified bodies in Washington (since June 2000, post-Keyes’ army deployment), a list believed to be incomplete.

Research Methodology: Narrowing Down the Does (07:51–14:33)

Kaz’s Approach (05:07–10:29)

• Kaz—prosecutor and board member for Private Investigations for the Missing—explains her process:
  • Started with the assumption that some Keyes victims are among the unidentified.
  • Used NAMUS to search for Does in Washington from January 1997 onward, resulting in 93 cases.
  • Filtering by: Location (avoiding urban, suburban, or unlikely sites), type of remains (infants ruled out, focus on adults), setting a rough estimate for time since death based on decomposition.
  • Factored in Keyes’ known patterns: “...boat launches, boat ramps, outhouses, coffee shops, wooded areas, cemeteries...” (07:21)
  • Used Google Maps/Earth to examine property history, noting, “What was this area like then? ...French was able to take this data and see...the photo history of these places...” (09:55)

French’s Mapping (10:29–14:33)

• French, the podcast’s mapping expert, took Kaz’s curated list to analyze locations using archival data:
  • Skeptical of “Keyes mythology” but re-examined known body disposal practices—burial, use of abandoned properties, lakes, wildlife disturbance.
  • “So many of these [cases] are fragments out in the woods that wildlife has disturbed...” (13:04)
  • Used maps and news sources to coordinate known Keyes activities, local development, and property history with the Doe locations.
  • Example: The Lake Tapps Doe case (14:33), a compelling instance enabled by this method.

Case Study 1: Lake Tapps Jane Doe (14:33–34:42)

Discovery & Property History (19:11–22:48)

• The body was discovered August 28, 2019, when a construction crew cleared an abandoned trailer property.
  • "Skeletal remains, later determined to be a woman...were found in a recycling bin which had been almost completely swallowed by overgrowth." (19:11)
  • French details the overgrown state and the timeline, confirmed through archival photos and Google Earth: “By 2009, this is an abandoned property... those brambles are thick...” (21:00)
• Keyes' Connection and Timeline Analysis (22:48–26:38)
  • Keyes was familiar with Lake Tapps, living and dating in the Tacoma area from 1999–2006.
  • “Cell phone pings place Keyes driving past Lake Tapps on October 21st, 2004.” (22:48)
  • French: “He would look online at all of these for sale properties and you could very clearly tell that this was an abandoned property.” (29:00)

Forensic and Law Enforcement Gaps (29:35–32:14)

• DNA comparisons have not been done between the Doe and key missing persons:
  “...the Lake Tapps Jane Doe—there's been no comparisons that have been put into this.” – Kaz (30:43)
• Frustration at local/federal gaps:
  “...bodies they're finding in Washington that they're comparing to people who are missing in California, but not to people who are missing in Washington state.” – Hallmark (30:30)

Matches and Keyes’ MO (34:42–39:22)

• 21 possible matches found for the Doe across missing persons. After narrowing by geography & MO, Giovanna Tyler is the most likely match.
  • "Lake Taps is just 13 miles from Giovanna’s house in an almost straight line from door to door." (37:28)

Case Study 2: Elwha "Leg Bone" Doe (39:22–44:16)

• A human leg bone was found by a dog on May 10, 2012, on the Lower Elwha Clallam Tribal Reservation.
  • Very little physical data available about the victim.
  • Initial speculation linked to Karen Tucker, but DNA ruled her out.
• Keyes’ possible link:
  • He did work on the Reservation in the early 2000s and was documented harassing women nearby.
  • "Elwha comes up a lot... [a barista says] Keyes specifically mentioned he did work on the Elwha Reservation." (41:07)
  • The setting (former reservoir, remote, accessible by boat) matches Keyes’ methods.

Additional Unidentified Remains & Broader Patterns (44:16–48:29)

• Seven further Doe cases considered possibly linked to Keyes based on locations:
  • Four found in parks/forests
  • One found after a demolition
  • One adjacent to Fort Lewis (Keyes' Army base)
  • One by a boat ramp in Bayliner
• Multiple missing persons overlap with these remains: names include Wendy de Hoop, Robert Perry Bissell, Cynthia Jane Marle, Koi Deng Vu, Giovanna Tyler, more.

Reflection: The Unbearable Wait for Closure (48:29–end)

• Hallmark delivers a poignant meditation on grief and the cost of unidentified remains:
  • “When a person becomes just a body, they are no longer a complete body of work... It becomes easier and easier to overlook them, to not prioritize the closure, to not find its home.” (47:20)
  • “Hope often dies with closure. It’s a torturous liberation, but in many cases...it’s the most we can hope for.” (48:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's a mystery, yes, but a mystery of the most heartbreaking kind."
  – Josh Hallmark (05:56)

• "I started with Washington, because we know that he spent a lot of time in Washington, and a lot of the murders, we think, took place in Washington."
  – Kaz (06:13)

• “So many of these [Does] are fragments out in the woods that wildlife has disturbed.”
  – French (13:05)

• "This property was abandoned and listed during the three years the body was most likely to have been placed there."
  – Hallmark (28:36)

• "The Lake Tapps Jane Doe—there's been no comparisons that have been put into this."
  – Kaz (30:43)

• "Lake Taps is just 13 miles from Giovanna’s house in an almost straight line from door to door."
  – Hallmark (37:28)

• "When a person becomes just a body, they are no longer a complete body of work..."
  – Hallmark (47:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |--------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 05:55–07:50 | The heartbreak of missing and unidentified victims | | 07:51–10:29 | Kaz explains the research methodology | | 10:29–14:33 | French explains mapping and forensic approach | | 14:33–34:42 | Deep dive: Lake Tapps Jane Doe case | | 34:42–39:22 | Lake Tapps matches and Keyes' MO; narrowing the field | | 39:22–44:16 | Deep dive: Elwha “leg bone” Doe and Keyes connections | | 44:16–48:29 | Additional Washington Does and the horror of ‘hopelessness’ | | 47:20–48:29 | Poignant reflection on closure and the cost of 'unowned' bodies|

Summary & Takeaways

• The episode meticulously demonstrates how extensive, methodical, and heartbreakingly inconclusive cold case work can be—especially where serial offenders are concerned.
• The Lake Tapps and Elwha Doe cases crystallize the agony and the promise of such investigations: the agony of close-but-incomplete leads, the promise that persistent cross-checking and newer forensic methods may one day bring closure.
• A sobering critique of law enforcement limitations and bureaucratic inertia runs throughout, with multiple examples of how simple DNA comparisons or regional casework could make a world of difference to grieving families—and might even identify long-lost victims of Israel Keyes.

End of Summary