C (4:50)

And that's all of Washington State.

B (4:52)

All of Washington state.

D (4:53)

Okay.

B (4:54)

As I'm looking at this list, it was obvious to me that there was going to be some that were not going to fit at all. For instance, more urban areas like, say, parts of Seattle. It's not going to fit with, you know, what we know about keys. You know, also the type of individual it was in Washington. It was in some other states, too, that I looked at. There were, you know, deceased, like very young infants. And that's not going to fit with what we're looking for. So what I ended up looking for in terms of criteria was, you know, it was basically, you know, my opinions, first impressions and thoughts looking at what namus, the information that NAMUS provided us. And then I would kind of plug those dates, times, places, and criteria into Google to see if I can come up with any news stories or anything that could give me some extra information about these particular unidentified persons. And for a lot of them, there wasn't a lot of information at all. Sometimes I would get to the web salutes page or, you know, something. Something like that for some. I got a lot of information. There were some news reports, especially remains that were found closer in time to us. Now, a couple things that I kept in mind. You know, just because remains were found in a certain year doesn't mean that they were put there in that year. I looked at do we have skeletal remains versus do we have a full intact body, or was there some level of decomposition or putrefaction that would lean towards or lend towards a body having been placed there closer in time than, you know, as opposed to skeleton remains, which could be in an environment in Washington anywhere. And I'm Just ballparking this, because I'm not a scientist, anywhere from a year to decades, you know, and I also looked at, you know, the, the state of, of the body. Do we have a skull? Do we have a femur? Or do we have a full and fully intact skeleton? And then also, you know, just the locations ruling out, you know, again, bodies that were found or remains that were found in more urban or suburban areas in the ocean, in bodies of water or near bodies of water that might not lend itself to. To Keys being there. Like, we kind of have a good idea, I think, at this point, of what his type of place is. And it was easy then, as I was going through the Namish chart, to be able to, you know, say, like, okay, this is a very suburban area. This is not going to be a place where he's going to. Where he would have. Have put somebody. So we're going to rule that one out. The other thing, too, that I found, you know, not just going through Washington state, but through the other states, looking at, you know, where there were some things where, you know, places change after a while. Sometimes there could be excavation, there could be construction. And a lot of these, A lot of these remains are found when people were doing some kind of work or like tearing down an old abandoned house or excavating for a swimming pool or something like that. And that's when these remains were being found. So. So, you know, I started to think, too, that went into my, my mind as, you know, something I was computing. You know, what was this area like then? What could it have been like before? So that's where French and the, and the Google Maps and the Google Earth came in. Because, you know, he was able to take, you know, this data and, you know, see if he can find the history of these, of these places, like the photo history of these places to see, like, okay, so there's something built here, but what was it like in 2012 or what was it like in 2009 or what was it like in 1999?

A (8:43)

And when Kaz finished combing through those DOE files, she sent them along to French, who created some pretty compelling maps using archival data, property records, and urban development history.

D (8:58)

When Kaz approached me, I was super skeptical. And I think there's a lot of Keys mythology. You know, we. Because we don't have a lot of bodies, you know, to look at, we tend to think that he was an expert at getting rid of them. Even though he admitted one was found, it was kind of accidental. So I wanted to come in with like an open mind. So I went through and I looked back through all of the interviews and kind of thought about what we know about keys and body disposal. You know, we've got Deborah Feldman, the story of 2009, where, you know, there's just remains. We don't know any more than that. Somewhere near a river, maybe buried, maybe submerged. Don't know much. And then, you know, we got the couriers left in the basement of an abandoned building to decompose and he was going to return later. And then we've got Samantha Koenig, who was obviously dismembered after the fact, after a while, and then put into a lake. Then we have his notes where he's talking about, you know, putting people in lakes, the couple that he buried, that kind of thing. But I think the thing that stood out the most to me was him talking about Eagle River. That little clip, I think it's 712 is super interesting because he talks about his plan and how he developed a plan to kill somebody and use a pre dug ditch near that berm to bury them and then cover them with sheet metal that was found nearby. Which kind of doesn't fit with a lot of the things that we think about Keyes, because, you know, he's not taking them to a second location, he's killing them there or, you know, up the road near the nature center where there's an outhouse. But the fact that he was just going to, you know, I think bury them, probably a shallow grave considering where he was near the road, and then cover them with metal and then go on his way, that made me believe that perhaps, you know, what would have happened to that body had he actually succeeded and killed someone and carried that plan out. How easy would it have been for wildlife to get to it? And then looking through Kaz's list, so many of these, you know, are fragments out in the woods that wildlife has disturbed. And that starts to make me think that it's very possible that some of these bodies have been dug up through a natural process and that maybe some of the remains have been discovered. So I went in with an open mind in that way and I just went through and I started looking, you know, I looked at her list and she had a great color coordination. And I went through and I started reading all the news articles I could about them and trying to find the exact location. Because one of the things I noticed with NAMUS is that they'll give you coordinates, but I'm guessing depending on who enters it into the database, the coordinates Are not always accurate. Once I found that location, I would plot it into this Google map, which has everything else that we know about keys put into it, and just kind of look and see, like, how it relates to everything else. Because I'm such a visual person. The spreadsheet tells a lot of good information, but it doesn't tell the story the same way that I think looking at, you know, being able to see his movements and like, oh, he stayed at a hotel over here. Well, when did he stay there? And how could that possibly relate to a body being found in this area? Does that support it at all? And once I found that, once I determined that all out, I would also say, like, okay, well, if we know qies was active during this time frame, what do the maps look like now Compared to when this body might have been placed there? I think the lake taps is one of the best examples of that.

A (12:47)

The lake taps doe is one of two doe cases that sparked our deep dive into unidentified remains. And it's a case that using archival map data, French was able to pinpoint a fairly clear timeline for. Lake tapps is a small forested town just 10 miles east of Tacoma, Washington, which was built around, yes, Lake taps. And this female doe came up in our research into the Giovanna Tyler case. As a reminder, Giovanna Tyler disappeared from her home in Tacoma on March 28th of 2004. And shortly before her disappearance, she and Israel Keyes ended up in the Neah bay police station on the same night. But it's not so much the proximity of Tyler's home to Lake taps that led us to investigate this doe, but it's many, many haunting similarities to what we know about Israel Keyes and what Israel Keys told the FBI about his crime. The Lake Tapps Jane Doe was discovered on August 28th of 2019 during the cleanup and prep for sale of an abandoned property two blocks from the lake. The skeletal remains, later determined to be a woman between the ages of 18 and 50, approximately 61 to 67 inches tall, were found in a recycling bin which had been almost completely swallowed by overgrowth. A construction crew was on site to demolish and clear out A rundown and long ignored trailer home on the property.

D (14:37)

I went through and I was like, okay, so they found a. They were talking. There was a construction crew that was getting rid of a trailer. They found a recycling bin and it was too heavy to move, and so they dumped it out and bones came out, and that's how the body was discovered. So you go up and you're looking around where they kind of describe it, and you're clearly, you know, there's a trailer right here that's overgrown and overrun. There's a sale for sale sign, there's an abandoned trailer, and there's a blue recycling bin, which is super creepy to actually see on the map. So I want to be able to go through and see this was like, I don't know when this photo was taken necessarily, because this version of Google Maps doesn't show that, but this version does. Google Earth Pro. So looking at Google Earth Pro here, I can go back in time and see overhead when I want to know when this trailer was actually abandoned, because that would. If it was only abandoned within the last couple of years, that would put a different. That would rule keys out. So if we go back as far as we can, there's not a whole lot, but we keep going forward, and we see it looks pretty well occupied June 2002. But by March 2005, it's starting to look less occupied and less occupied. You can see this is the trailer. You can see those. The bushes are growing pretty well next to the trailer where the recycling bin was found. And then certainly by 2009, this is an abandoned property. So taking that into consideration, if we go just to regular old Google Earth here or Google Maps on your browser, if we can look at the street view, we can go back in time at certain points, if you're lucky. And we were lucky enough that we can go back to 2008 and see, yeah, this was not occupied in 2008. There's clearly a for sale sign. And that section where the recycling bin was found is overgrown. So my guess, whoever put that body there stuffed it in the recycling bin and just tucked it into these. It looks like BlackBerry brambles. And it wasn't touched for, you know, close to over a decade, I would say. And if we go up to 2012, you can see those brambles are thick. You know, you lived in the Northwest. You're not going to go through those brambles very easily at all. Very thorny, difficult to get into. By 2015, it's almost completely overtaken the trailer. And then luckily enough, about a month before they actually discovered the body. That's why the recycling bin is exposed, is because they were clearing this to get ready to demolish the property. And so this is July 2019. And this body was discovered in August 2019. August 28, 2019.

A (17:38)

After looking into property records, deed transfers, and property tax history, we were able to determine that the body was most likely placed on the property between 2004 and 2008. The property went on the market in late 2003, where it sat abandoned and for sale for three years. In March of 2006, it was purchased, but remained abandoned and transferred hands through quick claim sales multiple times until the 2019 demolition. And when analyzing both the growth of those brambles and the presence of for sale signs, the likely timeline of the Jane Doe can be narrowed down to late 2003 to early 2006. And Keyes fits into this picture in many notable ways. Let's start with the timeline and geography. This is an area that Keyes was incredibly familiar with. Lake Taps is less than 30 miles from where he was stationed at Fort Lewis in Tacoma from September of 99 until January of 2000, and then again following his return from Egypt in June of 2000 until his eventual discharge and move to Nia Bay in July of 2001. The timeframe for when the body was most likely placed on the property is during a period where Keyes was admittedly very active in Washington State, and specifically during a time where he was traveling to, to or through the Seattle Tacoma metro area almost daily between January of 2004 and June of 2006. We have receipts placing keys crossing Puget sound by ferry 35 different times. And financial records and cell phone pings place him in the area well beyond that. And from interviews with friends and family, we also know for much of this time he was dating Denise, who lived in the Tacoma area. So, like I said, he knew the area quite well. And then there's cell phone pings that place keys driving past Lake Taps on October 21st of 2004. Also of note is the property itself.

D (20:09)

I do check out this house for.

E (20:10)

A while to know it was empty or. Well, no, I think I found it that day, maybe early in the morning that day. I had left Dallas early that morning. I don't remember what time, but I was driving around to a lot of small towns that day with a plan.

D (20:31)

Of finding a bank to run.

E (20:33)

Yeah, yeah, I had them all.

D (20:38)

Seems like maybe you were killing time.

E (20:40)

Before the banks opened with that house. Or was that what you were doing? Yeah, yeah, no, I was. I mean, I always. Look, I always stop at empty houses, especially if they have for sale signs and looking for. Yeah, just to kill time and check out an area and. And I don't know, in Texas, I was surprised. Like, the security is actually pretty tight. Like, there's a lot. Most people have gates and locked gates and.

D (21:14)

I mean.

E (21:17)

So it took Me. Took me a while to find that place, but yeah, I was just killing time.

D (21:25)

Whatever.

A (21:28)

The Lake Tapp's trailer sits on half an acre of land, obscured almost entirely from the road by trees and overgrowth. Archival street view photos show that only the roof of the trailer could be seen from the road. From 2004 through 2018, even the majority of the driveway and surrounding property are not visible from the road. And directly across the street from the property is a tree lined back fence. And it should be noted that trailer homes come up multiple times. In interviews with Keyes, he discusses setting one on fire, he discusses breaking into multiple trailers, and he talks about staying for a short while in a trailer. In fact, real estate images show that at some point between 2003 and 2018, the lake taps trailer was broken into. But what's most interesting about this apparent break in is the method. The majority of the windows are missing on the trailer, making it incredibly easy to slip in and out without making a noise or any visible disturbances. Yet the rear sliding glass door has been shattered. It also appears that someone tried to remove the slider completely, but couldn't due to an obstruction. So it's fair to say that whoever broke in was trying to move something very large into the trailer, rather than simply just trying to gain access to the already very accessible interior. The other standout is the property's transactional history, specifically that it was consistently on the market from late 2003 until spring of 2006. Keyes told investigators that he found the Essex Junction farmhouse where he killed the couriers and abandoned their bodies by looking for abandoned properties in real estate magazines and websites. This property was abandoned and listed during the three years the body was most likely to have been placed there.

D (23:50)

And then that's the kicker is once I determined the exact location like this is clearly where that body was found and look up that location, you know, I found the listing and it showed all of the, the interior photos of this property and something that I can't tell when those were posted, but clearly, you know, that's something he's admitted to doing. He would look online at all of these for sale properties and you could very clearly tell that this was an abandoned property. And it, you know, I think it would have been just a really great place for Keys to do his thing, unfortunately.

C (24:25)

And then I guess going back to the reason we stumbled upon this or started really looking into this was when we were looking into the case of Giovanna Tyler, because she disappeared. It's been a while since I've done the map, but I think five miles.

D (24:41)

From this trailer, I think, I think it's about 13 miles driving like the most direct route. And Giovanna, you know, went missing 2004, which kind of lines up. I think it would have been a freshly abandoned property at that time. It definitely, it makes it seem like this is somebody that they should be comparing the DNA to. And I'm almost positive Kaz has determined that they haven't.

C (25:07)

Yeah.

D (25:08)

Which is correct. I think that's one of the big takeaways. One of the big tragedies of this whole learning experience is that, you know, DNA is not being compared at the rate it should to these bodies.

A (25:20)

Yeah.

C (25:20)

I think what was really disappointing for me and what Cass sent over is seeing there's bodies they're finding in Washington that they're comparing to people who are missing in California, but not to people who are missing in Washington state.

D (25:32)

Absolutely.

B (25:33)

Just to clarify, I just looked it up on Namus and the lake, the lake taps Jane Doe. There's been no comparisons that have been put into this. Part of that is because this is something that I've been looking into a little bit recently is that depending on the bones and depending on what we have to actually get DNA out of those remains, I imagine that it's probably costly. I imagine that it's not something that is necessarily on everybody's radar as something to do in terms of law enforcement. And it doesn't really say even on the case file. I mean it says it's a near complete or complete skeleton even just take DNA out of the running for a second. At least if they had dental records or something or some kind of medical records that they can compare. Why aren't we doing that?

A (26:32)

And that's the hardest part about looking into these many, many unidentified bodies. These bodies who are people with lives and stories and loved ones. Local law enforcement and even the FBI don't seem to have the resources, time or bandwidth to do simple comparison testing. Even in some cases where it seems pretty clear cut who these people could be. After French and Kaz shared their findings with me, I started running these does against missing persons cases in NAMUS and on the Charlie Project. And in all of these highly curated DOE cases, there were matches familiar to this podcast and my investigations. Names and faces I've come to know quite well. When running the known and estimated data on the lake taps Jane Doe through missing persons cases out of Washington, Oregon, Idaho and California. There are 21 possible matches. And these matches include names you're familiar Giovanna Tyler, Kimberly Ann Forbes, Cynthia Jane Marle Lynn Ohana and Tina Mae Coston among many others. But there's something else that stands out about the geography of Lake Taps. Its proximity to a population dense metro area. Lake Taps itself is fairly exurban, but it abuts to Washington State's largest metropolitan area, which is actually not unlike the locations of the Currier's and Samantha Koenig's remains. Essex junction is a 15 minute drive from downtown Burlington. Matanuska Lake is a 40 minute drive from downtown Anchorage. What this location tells me is if it's Keys, it's likely someone who was abducted from nearby, as in the cases again of the Couriers and Samantha. And as I went through the 21 missing persons matches, the majority were from rural and remote areas some distance away. Why would Keyes or anyone for that matter, drive a kidnapping victim or even a body over 100 miles through remote forest, farmland or high desert into a population dense neighborhood? It makes no sense and it's high risk with even higher effort. And if there's two things we've learned about Keyes, it's that he avoided high risk situations and yet was somehow still an incredibly lazy criminal. It seems more likely that the Lake Taps Jane Doe was abducted from nearby and taken to this area, which would be the closest low population forested area to the I5 corridor. And when the search is narrowed using that assumption, there's only six possible Danica Childs, Cynthia Devries, Valerie Renee Delaney, Pamela Faye Kuick, Catherine Rose and giovanna Katie Tyler. Three of those disappearances occurred shortly after the 2006 sale of the trailer in Land. Cynthia Devries, who disappeared from lynwood, Washington on May 30th of 2006 Catherine Rose, who disappeared from Puyallup, Washington on June 26th of 2006 and Danica Diane Childs, who disappeared from Federal way, Washington on December 21st of 2007. Of the three remaining missing persons, only one, Giovanna Tyler lines up with Keyes known MO. Valerie Delaney disappeared from the Capitol Hill neighborhood of Seattle, which is a high density, high traffic area. Other than that, there's not a lot of information information available on her disappearance. Pamela Kuick was very likely killed by her estranged and abusive husband who is currently serving time for a different murder. And of all 21 missing persons cases that match this Jane Doe, Giovanna Tyler's disappearance occurred the closest to where the remains were recovered. Lake taps is just 13 miles from from Giovanna's house in an almost straight line from door to door. The second doe that inspired our deep dive was one I came across while looking into the case of Stephen Michael Mason.

C (31:37)

I would love to discuss, because it's the one that drives me the craziest. The Elwha Reservoir.

D (31:43)

Oh, my gosh. Yep.

A (31:46)

On May 10th of 2012, a dog dug up an adult human leg bone from a thin layer of silt on the Lower Elwha Clallam Reservation, just eight miles southwest from downtown Port Angeles. And let's start with the general frustration, which is very little has been made public or is known about who this leg belonged to. According to available records, the sex is uncertain. The height and weight of the person cannot be estimated. The estimated age range is 18 to 99, and the year of death cannot be estimated either. Although it has been determined that the bone is not that of any ancient tribal remains, the bone was initially thought to belong to Karen Tucker, a woman who disappeared from the area in 1991. However, DNA analysis done in October of 2012 ruled Tucker out. Unfortunately, as of this recording, that is the only information about the DNA analysis that has ever been made publicly available. But there are multiple reasons beyond just proximity to consider Keys when looking at these human remains.

C (33:10)

Okay, so this Elwha one stands out for lots of reasons. For one, they drained a reservoir and found it. For two, this is right at the intersection where he was harassing Molly while she was driving. Elwha comes up a lot. And I remember just last week we were talking about. It came up in a weird place.

D (33:30)

That in the witness report from the barista in Sequim, she said that Keys specifically mentioned that he did work on the Elwha Reservation.

C (33:42)

That's right.

D (33:43)

Wow.

A (33:48)

This leg was found not just along the shore of the Elwha river, but in an area that had previously been the deepest section of Lake Aldwell, a reservoir that was drained as part of an ecosystem restoration project in the spring of 2012. Additionally, Keyes did work on the Lower Elwha Clallam Reservation in at least 2004 and 2005 and possibly later into 2006. And this is the exact location where Keyes tried to run a woman named Molly off the road late one night in winter, spring of 2001, 2002. And while we don't know a lot about this bone, based on where it was recovered and the history of Lake Aldwell, which was created by the 1913 damming of the Elwha river, it seems most likely that the bone arrived by boat. And while the lake taps And Lake Caldwell does are the remains that ignited our deep dive. They are by no means the cases that most line up with Keys. In addition to these two does, we investigated seven other Washington does that could could possibly be Keyes victims. Four who were found in national or state parks and forests. One who was found following the demolition of another abandoned house, one who was found adjacent to Fort Lewis where Keyes was stationed in the army, and one who was found near a boat ramp in the very town where Keyes bought his Bayliner boat. And when looking for missing persons who could match these does, we encountered many disappearances that look similar to Keyes cases, including more than a handful of names familiar to us, like Wendy de Hoop, Robert Perry Bissell, Cynthia Jane Marle, Koi Deng Vu, Kimberly, Julianne Forbes, Giovanna Tyler and Delmar Wayne Sample. When you experience loss, people say you'll move through the five stages of grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. What they don't tell you is that you'll cycle through them all every day. Renata Suzuki it's sometimes easy to buy into the Key's mythology and get lost in an orchestra hopelessness that we might never find the remains of his victims. But there are bodies out there, recovered remains, that just haven't been identified yet. And the strange dichotomy of how we talk about those bodies isn't lost on me. That body tends to refer to the entirety of something, its completeness, a body of work. But in the case of the human body, in the instances of finding bodies, the body is missing the thing that made it complete. Its humanity, its person. When a person becomes just a body, they are no longer a complete body of work. And when someone is minimized down to just the nameless body that remains, it becomes easier and easier to overlook them. To overlook that body, to not prioritize the closure, to not find its home. It's easy to talk about how DNA testing costs too much or takes too much time when that person is just a body who currently belongs to no one. And that's the other conflict in these bodies. How, with the recovery of a missing loved one, there is the simultaneous pain of there being no more hope. In the long awaited emancipation from wondering and worrying and searching. Hope often dies with closure. It's a torturous liberation, but in many cases, short of a miracle, it's the most we can hope for.

F (39:07)

I picture you in the sun, wondering what went wrong and falling down on your knees, asking for sympathy and being caught in between all you wish for and all you see and Trying to find anything you can feel that you can believe in May God's love be with you.

D (39:50)

Always.

F (39:53)

May God's love be with you.

G (39:59)

I know I would apologize.

F (40:02)

Eyes if I could see your eyes Cuz when you showed me myself you know I became someone else But I was caught in between all you wish for and all you need I picture you past asleep A nightmare comes you can't keep away May God's love be with you.

D (40:41)

Always.

F (40:45)

May God's love be with you. May God's love be with you. May God's love be with you.

G (41:11)

If I find my way how much will I find if I find find if I find my way how much will I find if I find if I find my way how much will I find.

D (41:36)

You.

G (41:42)

I.

D (41:45)

Love.

F (42:00)

Oh I don't know anymore what it's for I'm not even sure if there is a anyone who is in the sun Will you help me to understand? Cause I've been caught in between all I wish for and all I need oh maybe you're not even sure what it's for any more than me.

G (42:38)

May.

F (42:38)

God's love be with you.

G (42:43)

Always make.

F (42:47)

God's love be with you.

G (42:51)

Always make.

F (42:56)

God's love be with you. My God Love me with you.

D (43:09)

Kiss.

G (43:10)

If I find if I find my way how much will I find if I find if I find my way how much will I find if I find if I find my way how much will I find if I find if I find my way how much will I find. I.

A (43:54)

Deeper.

H (44:42)

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

C (44:46)

This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

H (44:49)

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C (44:51)

Ugh, stressing me out.

A (44:52)

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H (44:55)

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H (45:20)

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I (45:51)

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