True Crime Bullsh**: The Israel Keyes Investigation

Episode: The Final Keyes Interview (Ad-Free)

Host: Studio BOTH/AND
Date: February 23, 2026

Overview

This episode features the final interrogation of serial killer Israel Keyes by a group of FBI agents, focusing on crimes other than the well-known Samantha Koenig case. The discussion is a tense, revealing look at Keyes' psychology, his negotiation tactics, the FBI’s efforts to gather evidence on his additional crimes, and the ongoing tug-of-war between the need for closure (for both law enforcement and victims’ families) and Keyes’ desire to maintain control. Throughout, listeners witness both the granular details of investigative work and the broader strategy—on both sides—of how information will be shared and used.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Miranda Rights and Legal Boundaries (00:00–02:26)

• Initial Setup: The interview starts with agents reading Keyes his rights. He confirms understanding and waives the right to counsel for this session, but only for matters unrelated to the Samantha Koenig case.
• Legal Limits: Agents clarify they can't discuss the Koenig case without his attorney present.

2. Technology in Investigation: The "Virtual Drive" Through Tupper Lake (03:05–06:31)

• FBI describes using live video feeds, GPS trackers, and Google Maps for remote site visits. They explain plans to use this technology for a "memory lane" walkthrough with Keyes, targeting the Tupper Lake area and a bank robbery investigation.
• Memorable Moment:
  • Israel, joking about advanced technology:
    • "So it's finally living up to people's expectations. All those CSI shows, they still can't usually get the thing solved in 20 minutes." (04:34)
• Goal: Use technological aids to jog Keyes' memory and direct field teams efficiently.

3. Retrieving and Analyzing Evidence From Keyes' New York Property (06:41–17:18)

• Agents show Israel photos of property in New York, asking for context on various items recovered: a mattress, maps, a ring, beads, old receipts (some for guns/ammo), and items around a fire pit.
• Keyes notes much of what's left are "childhood memories," suggesting some items were left by hunters or vagrants.
• Discussion about guns, maps, possible highlighted areas, and whether anything of evidentiary value related to homicide was present at the property.
• Notable Quote:
  • On the fire pit:
    • "I haven't burned anything in that pit for a long time, so anything that you found in there is probably from hunters or somebody who's camping there." (14:34)

4. Negotiation & Trust: Cooperation for Closure (19:19–34:59)

• Vermont authorities want to file murder charges for the unsolved Courier case but have been waiting for Keyes’ further cooperation.
• Agents explain their position: Keyes' cooperation has so far kept media exposure and investigative pressure at bay; without more details, they risk losing control over information flow and official process.
• Keyes expresses deepening mistrust, frustration with media leaks, and concern for his personal control.
• Insightful Quote:
  • "Initially I thought there were ways that I can manipulate this situation … by withholding information and giving information out. And obviously over the last few months I came to the realization that I can't do that, not realistically." (24:27)
• Agents urge for minimal clues to keep law enforcement and media at bay.

5. "The Clue Game": Trading Information (37:43–49:00)

• Agents propose that even a small, seemingly insignificant 'clue' (location of a cache, vague timeframes, or states where murders occurred) would help sustain the negotiation, buy more time, and satisfy administrative superiors without Keyes having to "give up his cards."
• Keyes remains cautious, questioning what agents found (e.g., any "folding knives" in boats or caches), subtly acknowledging links to murders without naming victims or specifics.
• Memorable Exchange:
  • Agent Frank: "You need a candy bar in there." (47:54)
  • Israel: "It's not like we're going to solve the clue game on that, like, you know, Professor Plum in the library type of thing ..."(48:27)

6. Forensics and Physical Evidence (17:23–62:15)

• Discussion about the discovery of thumbprints on recovered containers, possible locations of murder weapons, and findings of blood and hair in Keyes' boat.
• Debate on how long bodies may persist in freshwater lakes, referencing deep lakes like Lake Crescent in Washington—suspected scene of victim disposal.
• Notable Moment:
  • Israel, on Lake Crescent:
    • "I think that lake is 5 to 700ft deep. They've never been to the bottom of it. There's people who have gone off that lake. They still haven't their cars or anything." (60:36)

7. Unresolved Murder and Evidence Caches (56:17–71:21)

• Officers push for specifics on hidden caches of evidence (guns, other tools), suggesting such tips would "keep the FBI busy," buy time, and potentially lead to more relaxed handling of Keyes and his remaining secrets.
• Keyes remains noncommittal, asking for time to recall locations and contents of caches, hinting that they all have some significance.
• Key Dialogue:
  • Israel: "The easiest would be Washington, so I don't know my way around there a little better." (63:45)
  • Agents offer to facilitate the process, even allowing Keyes some internet time for research as a (joking) trade.

8. Media, Mistrust, and Ongoing Negotiation (34:59–76:27)

• Keyes reiterates anxiety about leaks, community rumors, and losing control of the public narrative—for example, about his ties to Neah Bay, where his child lives.
• Agents stress the practical realities they face: if Keyes stops talking, they’ll have to publicize evidence for tips, regardless of his preferences.
• Discussion closes with logistics: how clues, caches, or possible indictments might be handled depending on his cooperation, with the focus returning to practicalities rather than breakthroughs.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "So it's finally living up to people's expectations. All those CSI shows, they still can't usually get the thing solved in 20 minutes." — Israel (04:34)
• "Anything you found in there is probably from hunters or somebody who's camping there. ... I haven't really spent much time there ever since I was in the army." — Israel, on his old property (14:34)
• "Initially I thought there were ways that I can manipulate this situation, this case, all the related cases, and to my benefit and on my timeline, by withholding information and giving information out. And obviously over the last few months I came to the realization that I can't do that, not realistically." — Israel (24:27)
• "But you can't stop. I'm just saying. Yeah, you've got to go by your playbook, but I refuse to accept that there weren't ways you couldn't have been more discreet or more. You know, that's just my impression. I have nothing to go on other than what I see and my gut feeling on stuff at this point because I feel like I get the trickle down bullshit from all parties involved." — Israel (34:31)
• "It's not like we're going to solve the clue game on that like, you know, Professor Plum in the library type of thing, but it gives us a little bit of ... stuff to go back with people and buy time." — Agent Frank (48:27)
• "I was mostly curious if they found any blood. ... I mean, I know there was when I parked it." — Israel, about his boat (50:08)
• "I think that lake is 5 to 700ft deep. They've never been to the bottom of it. There's people who have gone off that lake. They still haven't their cars or anything." — Israel, about Lake Crescent (60:36)
• "I'm having a harder time remembering roads than Port Angeles ... I'm sure I can figure it out."—Israel (71:03)
• "You already got me on enough stuff." — Israel (65:59)

Key Timestamps

• [00:00–02:26] — Miranda rights, legal limits, session boundaries
• [03:05–06:31] — FBI's virtual crime scene walkthrough, technology use
• [06:41–17:18] — New York property evidence, fire pit, maps, weapons
• [19:19–34:59] — Vermont case, negotiation over cooperation, media concerns
• [37:43–49:00] — The “clue game,” bartering for small bits of information
• [56:17–71:21] — Push for evidence caches, consideration of what might be safely revealed
• [60:36] — Discussion of Lake Crescent, body disposal, and forensic realities
• [71:03–72:40+] — Logistics for ongoing cooperation, concluding remarks

Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is tense and calculated, with moments of dark humor and banter (about candy bars, CSI shows), but always undercut by the reality of the crimes at hand. Keyes oscillates between arrogance, cagey negotiation, and hints of frustration as he realizes his power to manipulate the investigation is waning. The agents walk the line between appealing to Keyes' desire for control and pressing for the smallest actionable lead—whether a “clue,” a cache, or just a waypoint for future discussions. Both sides acknowledge the unique stalemate: justice and closure hinge not just on investigative skill, but on the psychology and whims of a serial murderer coming to terms with his dwindling leverage.

This summary highlights the core content of the final Keyes interview and should serve as a comprehensive resource for listeners and investigators seeking a detailed but accessible account of this pivotal episode.