Transcript

Amanda Jacobson (0:00)

Save over $200 when you book weekly. Stays with VRBO this winter. If you haven't seen your college besties since, well, college. You need a week to catch up in a snowy cabin. Take a week long vacation and save over $200.

RealReal Ad Voice (0:13)

Book now@verbo.com this podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.

Christine (RealReal Shopper) (0:29)

I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal. Game changer. I earn more. And they do everything.

RealReal Ad Voice (0:40)

Seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million members.

Christine (RealReal Shopper) (0:51)

And I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else.

RealReal Ad Voice (0:55)

Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal. Earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now, you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com.

Josh Hallmark (1:15)

All right, are we ready to do this?

Charlie Worrell (1:17)

Yeah.

Josh Hallmark (1:18)

Okay. Hey, everybody. I am here. I realize whenever I do cold opens, it's like the energy of a D child. I'm just like, hi, everyone.

Amanda Jacobson (1:31)

The energy of me calling 911 from the toilet.

Charlie Worrell (1:34)

Yes.

Amanda Jacobson (1:36)

Bring that energy.

Josh Hallmark (1:38)

Listless with nothing left to give. Hey, everybody.

Amanda Jacobson (1:42)

Bottom of the barrel. Hey, everybody.

Josh Hallmark (1:49)

Hey, everybody. I'm Josh Hallmark and I'm here with Charlie Worrell from Crime Lines and Amanda Jacobson from Wine. Hey, all.

True Crime Bullsh**: "True Crime Conversations" with Amanda Jacobson, Charlie Worrell & Josh Hallmark

Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Guests: Amanda Jacobson (Wine & Crime), Charlie Worrell (Crime Lines), Host: Josh Hallmark (True Crime Bullsh**)
Theme:
A candid, lively roundtable between three veteran independent true crime podcasters, reflecting on podcast community, parasocial dynamics, personal boundaries, authenticity, the changing industry, and (of course) plenty of hilarious asides and icebreakers.

Episode Overview

This episode gathers three seasoned indie podcasters—Josh Hallmark, Amanda Jacobson, and Charlie Worrell—for an unfiltered chat about the realities of podcasting life. The discussion bounces from friendship and networking in the true crime community, to the oddities of parasocial relationships, pushback from listeners, self-care, and practical advice for newcomers. Throughout, the episode is peppered with warmth, humor, and the unmistakable vibe of long-standing camaraderie.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcasting Community & Connection

Podcasting as Community-Builder:
- The hosts reflect on how their group and friendship circles are all interconnected through Josh’s enthusiastic networking.
- "Every time I'm in a room with a bunch of podcasters and we're trying to figure out how the we know each other, it always comes down to Josh." — Amanda (05:00)
Trauma, Support, and Friendship:
- They affectionately tease and praise other community members, sharing inside jokes about age, trauma, and resilience (most notably about Justin and Aaron).
- "It's pretty spectacular to be in the presence of a miracle... that's the nicest thing I'm ever gonna say about Justin." — Amanda, on fellow podcaster Justin (07:51)
Uniqueness of True Crime Podcasting:
- There’s a recurring theme that nobody quite gets what they do except other podcasters.
- "Even if you can't find any common ground with another podcaster, like, we have this shared experience, which is so bizarre." — Josh (11:43)

2. Navigating Parasocial Relationships and Listener Dynamics

The Intimacy of Podcasting:
- The hosts discuss the odd imbalance that comes from sharing so personally into the microphone, with listeners knowing intimate details that the hosts don’t recall (or even remember sharing), resulting in lopsided relationships.
- "It's an interesting and sometimes odd, weird kind of like, intimacy power dynamic." — Amanda (14:24)
Being Misunderstood & Feedback:
- Each has stories about pushback for personal life choices (e.g., Charlie's six kids), offhand comments, or even just their personalities.
- "Anything you put out there is then subject to... public feedback." — Charlie (18:15)
- "It's very much a lesson in, oh, this isn't even about me... that's about them." — Amanda (19:08)
When and How to Respond to Criticism:
- Clear distinction is drawn between engaging with sincere feedback versus not feeding trolls.
- "If someone emails me directly, they're much more likely to get a response than if they leave a comment... If they're just coming at me, I just move on." — Charlie (25:08)

3. Maintaining Boundaries, Self-Care, and Authenticity

Preserving Authenticity:
- Multiple examples about in-person meetups confirming the hosts’ on-mic personas are real.
- "Who you are on the show is who you are out in the world." — Josh to Amanda (37:03)
Balancing Public and Private Selves:
- Jokes about the necessity for social downtime, being introverted despite very “on” podcasting personas, and the relief of personal space.
- "All I do for a fudgeing living is talk." — Amanda (47:51)
Letting Go of Being Liked by Everyone:
- Amanda shares her journey moving past the need for universal approval, particularly in a polarized, opinionated internet landscape.
- "There is kind of a loving callous that has built up over the years of, like, not everybody has to like you. And it's actually very much okay for us to not agree on some things." — Amanda (29:21)

4. The Strange Job of Podcasting ("This job is so fucking weird")

Surreality of having a "Public" but Anonymous Audience:
- The group marvels at tens of thousands of people knowing them while remaining faceless, sometimes resulting in unexpected, uncomfortable interactions.
- "Tens of thousands of people know who I am and I have no idea who they are... that will make me spiral if I think about it too much." — Charlie (14:00)

5. Industry Changes, Monetization, and Practical Advice

Sea Change in Podcast Revenue and Discovery:
- They reflect on how the payout structure has changed (drastically fewer ad dollars per download), requiring fan-supported models to keep shows running.
- "Without the paywall, we make about half a cent per download... that's like $5,000 for 100,000 downloads." — Josh (80:36)
Advice for Aspiring Podcasters:
- Don’t invest in expensive gear before knowing it’s right for you — start cheap.
- It’s no longer a fast-lane to any meaningful revenue; do it for passion, not profit.
- "If you're not bringing a genuine authenticity and passion... it's probably not the right space." — Amanda (80:49)
- "Fun, it's a great way to make community... but unless you're already a known entity, there's... it's hard to get started." — Josh (83:23)

6. Humor, Icebreakers & Tangents

Roommate of Choice:
- A semi-serious debate about which real or fictional person they’d want as a roommate (B+ Housewives/TV crossovers, Gandalf as Amanda’s dream, Gilmore Girls’ Babette, etc.)
- "I would want like a Gandalf… always has good weed, fun fireworks… when he is home, I can be like, here's the honey do list. And he waves his staff or whatever." — Amanda (45:00)
Most Ridiculous Purchase:
- Ranging from luxury Prada jellies (Amanda), to Josh’s near-purchase of a $3,000 wood-carved beaver, to joke Cameos (including a hilariously mysterious sex-positive one).
- "We were talking about our Christmas list, and I made the mistake of joking about all I want for Christmas is a cameo from... someone who does not deserve the money we gave." — Amanda (53:28)
If They Could Become an Instant Expert…:
- Josh: SimCity/city planning. Amanda: Piano. Charlie: Macaron baking/chef.
- “I would become an expert baker. That is what I would do.” — Charlie (66:30)
Music Education & Instruments:
- Tales of forced childhood music lessons—Amanda lugging a cello to school, jokes about not sticking with piano unless immediately a prodigy.

Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

On Josh's Networking:
- "Every time I'm in a room with a bunch of podcasters... it always comes down to Josh." — Amanda (05:00)
On Trauma in the Community:
- "That man's trauma... it's not my age that makes me old." — Charlie (07:14)
On Listeners Knowing Intimate Details:
- "You've essentially been there for me through every major milestone of my adult life... and I know nothing about you." — Amanda (14:24-16:12)
On Responding to Criticism:
- "Nothing I say is going to change how you feel, because ultimately it's not about me." — Josh (23:23)
On Authenticity:
- “Who you are on the show is who you are out in the world.” — Josh to Amanda (37:03)
- “No, I'm just an idiot on a microphone. And I'm an idiot not on a microphone.” — Amanda (37:56)
On Parasocial Relationships:
- “I've known Meredith Grey… for 20 years, which is, like, longer than I've known you guys.” — Josh (41:39)
Podcast Industry Reality Check:
- "Don't go into podcasting because you want it to be a job that generates revenue for you. Those days are over." — Amanda (79:42)
- “Without the paywall, we make about half a cent per download.” — Josh (80:36)
Advice to New Podcasters:
- "Don't invest in expensive stuff until you know this is what you want to do." — Charlie (78:13)
- "If you're not bringing a genuine authenticity and passion... it's probably not the right space for you." — Amanda (80:49)

Important Segment Timestamps

Podcast Community Connections – 05:00 – 10:14
Parasocial Relationships – 14:00 – 25:08
Listener Feedback & Boundaries – 17:00 – 26:02
Authenticity & Persona – 33:33 – 38:10
Humorous Icebreakers – 40:01 – 50:45
Most Ridiculous Purchases – 51:25 – 56:53
Advice for Podcasters & Industry Reality – 77:29 – 84:54

Tone & Language

The conversation is informal, irreverently funny, and full of warmth—exactly the way three friends with lots of shared history sound when the mics come on for a “conversations” bonus. The tone is authentic, sometimes profane, often self-deprecating, and deeply relatable for anyone curious about what it actually feels like to make (or simply love) independent podcasts.

Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a rare, inside look into the realities of indie podcasting, blending practical advice, humor, personal stories, and an unfiltered portrait of what kind of relationships and resilience are required behind the scenes. The chemistry between the hosts makes the episode a must-listen for both new podcasters and long-time fans of the genre.

wavePod

True Crime Conversations: Amanda Jacobson, Charlie Worroll, Josh Hallmark (Ad-free & Early)