True Crime Conversations: Amanda Jacobson, Charlie Worroll, Josh Hallmark (Ad-free & Early)

Summary

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True Crime Bullsh**: "True Crime Conversations" with Amanda Jacobson, Charlie Worrell & Josh Hallmark

Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Guests: Amanda Jacobson (Wine & Crime), Charlie Worrell (Crime Lines), Host: Josh Hallmark (True Crime Bullsh**)
Theme:
A candid, lively roundtable between three veteran independent true crime podcasters, reflecting on podcast community, parasocial dynamics, personal boundaries, authenticity, the changing industry, and (of course) plenty of hilarious asides and icebreakers.

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Episode Overview

This episode gathers three seasoned indie podcasters—Josh Hallmark, Amanda Jacobson, and Charlie Worrell—for an unfiltered chat about the realities of podcasting life. The discussion bounces from friendship and networking in the true crime community, to the oddities of parasocial relationships, pushback from listeners, self-care, and practical advice for newcomers. Throughout, the episode is peppered with warmth, humor, and the unmistakable vibe of long-standing camaraderie.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Podcasting Community & Connection

• Podcasting as Community-Builder:
  • The hosts reflect on how their group and friendship circles are all interconnected through Josh’s enthusiastic networking.
  • "Every time I'm in a room with a bunch of podcasters and we're trying to figure out how the we know each other, it always comes down to Josh." — Amanda (05:00)
• Trauma, Support, and Friendship:
  • They affectionately tease and praise other community members, sharing inside jokes about age, trauma, and resilience (most notably about Justin and Aaron).
  • "It's pretty spectacular to be in the presence of a miracle... that's the nicest thing I'm ever gonna say about Justin." — Amanda, on fellow podcaster Justin (07:51)
• Uniqueness of True Crime Podcasting:
  • There’s a recurring theme that nobody quite gets what they do except other podcasters.
  • "Even if you can't find any common ground with another podcaster, like, we have this shared experience, which is so bizarre." — Josh (11:43)

2. Navigating Parasocial Relationships and Listener Dynamics

• The Intimacy of Podcasting:
  • The hosts discuss the odd imbalance that comes from sharing so personally into the microphone, with listeners knowing intimate details that the hosts don’t recall (or even remember sharing), resulting in lopsided relationships.
  • "It's an interesting and sometimes odd, weird kind of like, intimacy power dynamic." — Amanda (14:24)
• Being Misunderstood & Feedback:
  • Each has stories about pushback for personal life choices (e.g., Charlie's six kids), offhand comments, or even just their personalities.
  • "Anything you put out there is then subject to... public feedback." — Charlie (18:15)
  • "It's very much a lesson in, oh, this isn't even about me... that's about them." — Amanda (19:08)
• When and How to Respond to Criticism:
  • Clear distinction is drawn between engaging with sincere feedback versus not feeding trolls.
  • "If someone emails me directly, they're much more likely to get a response than if they leave a comment... If they're just coming at me, I just move on." — Charlie (25:08)

3. Maintaining Boundaries, Self-Care, and Authenticity

• Preserving Authenticity:
  • Multiple examples about in-person meetups confirming the hosts’ on-mic personas are real.
  • "Who you are on the show is who you are out in the world." — Josh to Amanda (37:03)
• Balancing Public and Private Selves:
  • Jokes about the necessity for social downtime, being introverted despite very “on” podcasting personas, and the relief of personal space.
  • "All I do for a fudgeing living is talk." — Amanda (47:51)
• Letting Go of Being Liked by Everyone:
  • Amanda shares her journey moving past the need for universal approval, particularly in a polarized, opinionated internet landscape.
  • "There is kind of a loving callous that has built up over the years of, like, not everybody has to like you. And it's actually very much okay for us to not agree on some things." — Amanda (29:21)

4. The Strange Job of Podcasting ("This job is so fucking weird")

• Surreality of having a "Public" but Anonymous Audience:
  • The group marvels at tens of thousands of people knowing them while remaining faceless, sometimes resulting in unexpected, uncomfortable interactions.
  • "Tens of thousands of people know who I am and I have no idea who they are... that will make me spiral if I think about it too much." — Charlie (14:00)

5. Industry Changes, Monetization, and Practical Advice

• Sea Change in Podcast Revenue and Discovery:
  • They reflect on how the payout structure has changed (drastically fewer ad dollars per download), requiring fan-supported models to keep shows running.
  • "Without the paywall, we make about half a cent per download... that's like $5,000 for 100,000 downloads." — Josh (80:36)
• Advice for Aspiring Podcasters:
  • Don’t invest in expensive gear before knowing it’s right for you — start cheap.
  • It’s no longer a fast-lane to any meaningful revenue; do it for passion, not profit.
  • "If you're not bringing a genuine authenticity and passion... it's probably not the right space." — Amanda (80:49)
  • "Fun, it's a great way to make community... but unless you're already a known entity, there's... it's hard to get started." — Josh (83:23)

6. Humor, Icebreakers & Tangents

• Roommate of Choice:
  • A semi-serious debate about which real or fictional person they’d want as a roommate (B+ Housewives/TV crossovers, Gandalf as Amanda’s dream, Gilmore Girls’ Babette, etc.)
  • "I would want like a Gandalf… always has good weed, fun fireworks… when he is home, I can be like, here's the honey do list. And he waves his staff or whatever." — Amanda (45:00)
• Most Ridiculous Purchase:
  • Ranging from luxury Prada jellies (Amanda), to Josh’s near-purchase of a $3,000 wood-carved beaver, to joke Cameos (including a hilariously mysterious sex-positive one).
  • "We were talking about our Christmas list, and I made the mistake of joking about all I want for Christmas is a cameo from... someone who does not deserve the money we gave." — Amanda (53:28)
• If They Could Become an Instant Expert…:
  • Josh: SimCity/city planning. Amanda: Piano. Charlie: Macaron baking/chef.
  • “I would become an expert baker. That is what I would do.” — Charlie (66:30)
• Music Education & Instruments:
  • Tales of forced childhood music lessons—Amanda lugging a cello to school, jokes about not sticking with piano unless immediately a prodigy.

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Notable Quotes and Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Josh's Networking:

  • "Every time I'm in a room with a bunch of podcasters... it always comes down to Josh." — Amanda (05:00)

• On Trauma in the Community:

  • "That man's trauma... it's not my age that makes me old." — Charlie (07:14)

• On Listeners Knowing Intimate Details:

  • "You've essentially been there for me through every major milestone of my adult life... and I know nothing about you." — Amanda (14:24-16:12)

• On Responding to Criticism:

  • "Nothing I say is going to change how you feel, because ultimately it's not about me." — Josh (23:23)

• On Authenticity:

  • “Who you are on the show is who you are out in the world.” — Josh to Amanda (37:03)
  • “No, I'm just an idiot on a microphone. And I'm an idiot not on a microphone.” — Amanda (37:56)

• On Parasocial Relationships:

  • “I've known Meredith Grey… for 20 years, which is, like, longer than I've known you guys.” — Josh (41:39)

• Podcast Industry Reality Check:

  • "Don't go into podcasting because you want it to be a job that generates revenue for you. Those days are over." — Amanda (79:42)
  • “Without the paywall, we make about half a cent per download.” — Josh (80:36)

• Advice to New Podcasters:

  • "Don't invest in expensive stuff until you know this is what you want to do." — Charlie (78:13)
  • "If you're not bringing a genuine authenticity and passion... it's probably not the right space for you." — Amanda (80:49)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Podcast Community Connections – 05:00 – 10:14
• Parasocial Relationships – 14:00 – 25:08
• Listener Feedback & Boundaries – 17:00 – 26:02
• Authenticity & Persona – 33:33 – 38:10
• Humorous Icebreakers – 40:01 – 50:45
• Most Ridiculous Purchases – 51:25 – 56:53
• Advice for Podcasters & Industry Reality – 77:29 – 84:54

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Tone & Language

The conversation is informal, irreverently funny, and full of warmth—exactly the way three friends with lots of shared history sound when the mics come on for a “conversations” bonus. The tone is authentic, sometimes profane, often self-deprecating, and deeply relatable for anyone curious about what it actually feels like to make (or simply love) independent podcasts.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode offers a rare, inside look into the realities of indie podcasting, blending practical advice, humor, personal stories, and an unfiltered portrait of what kind of relationships and resilience are required behind the scenes. The chemistry between the hosts makes the episode a must-listen for both new podcasters and long-time fans of the genre.

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Transcript

[Amanda Jacobson]

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[RealReal Ad Voice]

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[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal. Game changer. I earn more. And they do everything.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million members.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

And I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal. Earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now, you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com.

[Josh Hallmark]

All right, are we ready to do this?

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[Josh Hallmark]

Okay. Hey, everybody. I am here. I realize whenever I do cold opens, it's like the energy of a D child. I'm just like, hi, everyone.

[Amanda Jacobson]

The energy of me calling 911 from the toilet.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bring that energy.

[Josh Hallmark]

Listless with nothing left to give. Hey, everybody.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bottom of the barrel. Hey, everybody.

[Josh Hallmark]

Hey, everybody. I'm Josh Hallmark and I'm here with Charlie Worrell from Crime Lines and Amanda Jacobson from Wine. Hey, all.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Hi.

[Charlie Worrell]

Hello.

[Amanda Jacobson]

What you did.

[Josh Hallmark]

It's almost as though we did this just two days ago.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Wait, hold on.

[Charlie Worrell]

So good to see you guys again so soon.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It's almost as though I was late for this call because I had diarrhea just two days ago and then again today.

[Josh Hallmark]

Mm.

[Charlie Worrell]

Hi.

[Josh Hallmark]

And it's almost like we've had this entire conversation two days ago because I pressed pause on recording while you were having diarrhea and never pressed record again.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It's my fau fault, apparently, and I will accept that. And, you know, I feel like this is divine. You know, like the first. The first episode that we fully recorded is like the first pancake. You always throw out the first pancake. Now we're going to deliver the. The properly cooked, the well bubbled, the fluffy, the happy pancake. The one you would actually Serve to your mother in law.

[Charlie Worrell]

So we're not going to just complain the whole time?

[Amanda Jacobson]

No.

[Charlie Worrell]

Okay, good.

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, too early to say.

[Amanda Jacobson]

No promises.

[Josh Hallmark]

We also went on some wild tangents in that last call. So that first pancake, like we accidentally put LSD in.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yes, yes.

[Charlie Worrell]

Those Palm Springs mushrooms were coming back, bro.

[Amanda Jacobson]

The mushrooms that Josh claimed he didn't feel anything. You told me that every feel five minutes for three hours before being carried to bed.

[Josh Hallmark]

Jason said while they were carrying me to bed, just out of nowhere, a glass of red wine fell on the ground and they were like, where? How? Where did that come from?

[Amanda Jacobson]

We don't know where you had it stashed. Also, Hannah came to like snuggle with me on the couch that you had left and it was just soaked. Your pot was soaking. What? Granted, you had been in the hot tubs. It's not like you pissed everywhere. But it was really funny. She came to like cuddle in with the blanket, was like, God damn it, I'm just wet. Anyway, we get into some when we are together and we are virtually together. So yeah, let's get into some.

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, thank God it's morning and I will say I don't book meetings before noon. So I, you know.

[Amanda Jacobson]

So you've done this to us twice.

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, you did it to me because you were the ones who have like lives or something.

[Charlie Worrell]

Oh, yeah. I have to pick up kids at school. School. It's such an exciting life to us.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I could have done this. Call anytime today before 4:00pm.

[Josh Hallmark]

All right, well, so we are getting together as part of a independent ish true crime group of folks to have conversations about true crime. You will be hearing from people from already gone. The trail went cold. True crime Obsessed wine and crime. I'm a bunch of true crime Generation.

[Charlie Worrell]

Y. Whoever Josh emailed whoever Josh emailed whoever and whoever emailed you back.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, Josh, I said this last time. I'll say it again. You really do have a gift of connecting people. And actually we were thinking, I think we talked about this when we were together last time is like every time I'm in a room with a bunch of podcasters and we're trying to figure out how the we know each other, it always comes down to Josh.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Sleeper cell networker. It's crazy. How do you do that?

[Josh Hallmark]

I think it comes from being raised by neglectful parents where I just like, this totally tracks. Yeah. Like yearn for community constantly.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It's like, it's like the Mr. Rogers find the helpers.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Josh is always out there. Trying to find the helpers because your.

[Josh Hallmark]

Boy needs some help. Your boy. I think I have never said out loud.

[Amanda Jacobson]

No, I don't think I've ever heard you say your boy.

[Josh Hallmark]

No. You ever feel like.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Really important question. Who's the oldest person on this call?

[Charlie Worrell]

Oh, me. Yeah.

[Josh Hallmark]

God, by like a year and a half.

[Charlie Worrell]

I think I.

[Amanda Jacobson]

This is, for once, Josh's room for once.

[Josh Hallmark]

No, usually Justin's the oldest.

[Charlie Worrell]

Justin, yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Charlie Worrell]

And if Aaron's there, Aaron's the oldest, but nobody ever complains about his age. He's actually older than Justin.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I'm sorry, you know what? Let me clear the air on this, because.

[Josh Hallmark]

Hold on. Aaron is simultaneously 60 and 5.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Thank you. Because Justin has been bitching about this. Because I love making fun of Justin for being an old grandpa. It's so funny. If you see the font on his quote unquote smartphone. I don't know how smart that phone is. It will break your heart.

[Josh Hallmark]

He's reading a sentence at a time, a word.

[Charlie Worrell]

You can read his phone from across the room.

[Amanda Jacobson]

You literally can. And I have. And so he's always cranky about, well, Aaron's older than me. No, no, no. Elderliness is a spiritual yes exhibit.

[Charlie Worrell]

It's who you are as a person.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It's not rooted in how many years you've been on. This rotating orb embodies the elder.

[Josh Hallmark]

In fairness to Justin, he's been worn down not only by time, but by life.

[Charlie Worrell]

That man's trauma, I always tell people that it's not. It's not my age that makes me old. It's.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Charlie Worrell]

And I mean, My oldest is 26, so I have, like, a lot of years of being worn down. Not quite the same way as Justin, though.

[Josh Hallmark]

Justin, I have the trauma, but I think I'm, like, very preserved by all the wine. Justin doesn't drink.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And I think that, yes, Justin has indeed been pummeled by the universe. And I think. I mean, that's not why I love him so much. I. I do love people with. With trauma.

[Josh Hallmark]

Oh, I only, like, damage people.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah. It's like, what's the point?

[Charlie Worrell]

So glad to be here.

[Amanda Jacobson]

But there is something special about him that, like, when you really get to know him and peel back the layers of some of that pummeling, the fact that he is as kind, generous, open, like, lovely, funny, pretty well grounded a person as he is, considering everything that's been thrown at him throughout his life is a fucking miracle. And it's, like, pretty spectacular to be in the presence of a miracle. And so that's the nicest thing I'm ever gonna say about Justin.

[Charlie Worrell]

I was gonna say, nobody report back that this was said.

[Josh Hallmark]

I'm gonna edit this, Josh.

[Charlie Worrell]

Edit all of it out. Take it out.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I mean, can you cut that, please?

[Josh Hallmark]

I think that's the thing about this community. If you scale out. Like, I was thinking about this the other day. Like, I don't like everybody, but I love most everyone. And there's only, like, two or three people I've met who I'm just like, yeah, no, I don't fuck with you.

[Amanda Jacobson]

You're not for me.

[Josh Hallmark]

Y. But I just, like, overall, it's a really good community. We've made so many. Like, I feel like I'm lifelong friends with 90% of the podcasters I've met.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Literally. Literally. Like, Charlie, I know that you and I do not know each other quite as well. I want to cozy up because I know that you are a badass, and most of what I know about you is, frankly, against my will through Josh, who can't fucking stop talking about how much he loves you ever. Like, in rooms.

[Charlie Worrell]

You are. That's amazing.

[Amanda Jacobson]

So please know that you are so beloved when I say this, but, like, Josh is somebody who is, like, one of the first people in podcasting that I met. And, like, I can easily say that Josh is, like, one of my best friends, someone I talk to very regularly, who is the first person I want to text whenever I'm on the Housewives subreddit, which is really saying something. But, like, Josh and Alvin from Affirmative Murder. It's like we met it, you know, virtually. I. I only met Alvin in person for the first time this past summer when he and Fran came through for a whining crime tour. And I was like, stay at my house. I know you've never met me before, but please stay at my house like a creepy witch. And it just. It's kind of amazing. Like, I remember even meeting you for the first time, Charlie, which I think was at Josh's 40th in person, but we had done stuff over. You know, maybe we. Or whatever.

[Charlie Worrell]

I think we may have met at a crime con before that, but that was, like, chaos.

[Josh Hallmark]

Oh, the Nashville chaos.

[Amanda Jacobson]

That never happened.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah. Can we just delete? If I didn't. If I didn't have a picture of us together wearing boas, I would not remember it happened.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, it was a lot like my editor memory.

[Josh Hallmark]

Cut that we were driving in, and as we were driving in, there was, like, a shooting at the mall. And that perfectly predicated the weekend, bro.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah.

[Josh Hallmark]

But it's just everyone survived, by the way.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Oh, yes. Everyone's okay.

[Charlie Worrell]

Guys, Josh did get lost on the streets of Nashville, but I'm actually pretty sure Amanda's the one who found him.

[Josh Hallmark]

No, Lucy.

[Charlie Worrell]

Lucy.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

Okay.

[Charlie Worrell]

It was a group effort.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah. There's a lot of coordinated texting.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yeah. And then I demanded the Uber take us through the McDonald's drive thru.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And then you were really mad the next day because of the surge pricing. Never heard the end of it. But we truly, like, we had never, all of us never meet in person for Right. Years that we'll be talking and, like, becoming close friends. And then we meet in person and it doesn't feel like it's the first time. It feels like we've known each other forever. Because in a lot of ways, we have.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, I think we also have this shared, very unique experience of doing what we do.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes.

[Josh Hallmark]

Where I think, like, no one else gets it in the way that, I mean, no one could.

[Charlie Worrell]

Right.

[Josh Hallmark]

In its entirety. And so I think, no matter what, like, even if you can't find any common ground with another podcaster, like, we have this shared experience, which is so bizarre.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Hey.

[Dan Morgan]

How's it going today?

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many cases?

[Dan Morgan]

The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar, and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our clients.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Are insurance companies, like, actually afraid of you guys?

[Dan Morgan]

We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large verdicts.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.

[Josh Hallmark]

Wow.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

This podcast is supported by the Real Real. Meet Christine. She Loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

I've always loved collecting designer pieces. Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal. Game changer. I earn more. And they do everything.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million members.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

And I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere else.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal. Earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now, you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra $100. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com this job is so.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Fucking weird, you guys.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah.

[Charlie Worrell]

It brings these amazing opportunities and these very weird interactions into our lives. And just the idea. Sometimes I sit there and I think tens of thousands of people know who I am and I have no idea who they are. And that. That, I mean, that will make me spiral if I think about it too much. So maybe we can just stop that conversation right now. But it's just. It's. It's weird. It's weird.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I think that's an important conversation, though. And I know we talked about this before, but, like, it's something that is very strange because podcasting, at least the way that, like, we do it and that most a lot of podcasts do it. There are certainly podcasts that are just the facts. There's no real, like, personal vulnerability or showing of the self, which, like, all these years into it, I totally get that now, why people would make that choice. I personally am incapable of not inserting my own into every space that I'm in, which is something I'm trying to unpack in therapy. But it does create an interesting and sometimes odd, weird kind of like, intimacy power dynamic where when you walk into a room that is, you know, say, in. In circumstances where the. The room is full of people that are there for your show, they know things about you because they've been listening for, in my case, you know, going on nine years that a. I'm sure I shared but have no memory because I barely remember what I say five seconds after I say it, which is also a problem. And. But they know all of these intimate things about you, and you don't know anything about them. And it's like how to break that barrier of one sided parasocial into reciprocal. Like, true connection is. Is a challenge. And I think it's something that we navigate well. Like, I have a. We have a lot of listeners who have become my actual friends.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And that's really something very special and unique. And obviously I don't have the capacity to, like, create personal, intimate connections with, like, you know, every single person who's ever listened to whining crime. But when that does happen, it feels really special because it kind of eliminates some of that, you know, everything about me and I know nothing about you, which, like, makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't care what people know about me. It's like, I just like the reciprocity of connection. And so I feel bad when it's like, okay, you've been, you've essentially been there for me through every major milestone of my adult life because I've been doing this for a while now and I know nothing about you. So, like, yeah, talk about that. How does that feel and how do you break that barrier?

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, then I think the flip side is, like, for a show like mine or Charlie is where it's more, you know, content driven than personality driven. And you have all these people who think they know you, but they don't.

[Charlie Worrell]

Right.

[Josh Hallmark]

They've built a construct of you based on, like, really reading between the lines on what you're saying, whether there's substance there or not. And then you're like, I feel so misunderstood and I want them to know me, but at the same time, like, there's not a true space for that and that it's so exposed as, like, vulnerable. Like the way you put yourself out there. Like, I simultaneously want to be seen for who I am. Cause I don't think who I am shows up in the show, but I also don't because it opens you up to so much more critique and criticism and hatred and whatever.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah. I had my six. The baby while podcasting, so obviously I took some time off.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Six?

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes. And. And he is the last, by the way. But yeah, six. Six kids in 18 years. Great time. But I, when I had him, I thought, I'm not really putting a whole lot out there about I'm just pregnant, I'm having a baby. I had a giant baby.

[Amanda Jacobson]

You know, vulnerable.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes. I'm not putting out, you know, details of what's going on. And then we get a review that said that they think it's irresponsible for me to have so many children and I was like, my podcast isn't even about that. Like, my podcast, we do not discuss my pregnancy. I just happen to be pregnant and I'm taking time off. So it is mentioned during the podcast that was about it. And I realized, like, anything you put out there is then subject to. If you put it out there publicly, it is subject to public feedback. And that's just what it is. And that was probably my first lesson in, okay, I just need to be able to be like, okay, put that out into the world and I don't have to take back what is coming at me.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Okay. Now, do I agree with that sentiment as a childless by choice person? Absolutely. But I also know not to a say like that to a stranger while they're pregnant.

[Charlie Worrell]

That's right.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Who bananas. Like, the audacity of some people who will come into the comment section and say unhinged like that. It's very much a lesson in, oh, this isn't even about me. Like, person. That's about them. This has. This has nothing to do with me. And, like, you are an amazing mom, and anyone who's known you for more than 10 seconds knows that. And, like, I have no question that I could not handle six kids. But if I know anybody who could, like, truly do that in such a beautiful and, like, supportive and loving way, it's definitely you. I would take. I would give you my child were I afflicted.

[Charlie Worrell]

I. I do think if I had six young children, that would absolutely be too much. I did not have six young children. At 4Kids, we took a break. Believe it or not, everyone thinks it's a his, hers and ours family. Especially with we have the redheads and then we have the brunettes and the blondes. You know, people think we have a his, hers. And we have been making, as I say, poor choices together our entire lives. We met my first. We met like, six weeks into my first semester of college. We've been together forever.

[Josh Hallmark]

And you also have Mormonism in your blood.

[Charlie Worrell]

We do have Mormonism. That was something else I actually have to say that my listeners actually have picked up on in episodes where if I cover any episode that has anything to do with Utah or Mormonism, I get an email saying, I have to ask, are you. Are you lds? And I'm like, okay, well, can confirm.

[Josh Hallmark]

Not.

[Charlie Worrell]

I'm like, it's. My answer's complicated. But yeah, it's a Survivor. Yeah. It's just interesting that sometimes, even when we think we're doing a just the facts kind of presentation, something we say is Interlingo or whatever that people pick up on, which I think is. It's kind of fun. It's. It's when they go the other direction and they misunderstand me that I, I struggle, I struggle with.

[Amanda Jacobson]

You navigate or in some cases respond to being misunderstood because I've really had. I have like the ADHD urge to over communicate and over explain myself because I also hate being misunderstood. And I'm sure some of that comes from childhood. Wounds it off. Always does.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

So.

[Amanda Jacobson]

But I've really had to learn, like, we even have some kind of rules because we have a social media manager where it's like, okay, if X amount of people are flagging something, then we're going, we're going to go deeper and we're going to open up the discussion and we're going to address it. If it's like one or two comments about a throwaway thing that, you know, if it don't apply, let it fly kind of mentality, that's a hard line to tow. And, you know, not everybody agrees with my views on Taylor Swift, but that has definitely opened up a can of worms that I did not even knowing how that fandom can be that I did not see coming. And like, it is funny because I really don't think about Taylor Swift that often. But.

[Charlie Worrell]

Right.

[Amanda Jacobson]

She's come up in our show. You know, I've been honest about how I feel about her and it was not taken well. So, like, just curious, like, when do you try to explain yourself and when do you go, you know what? I'm gonna let that go.

[Josh Hallmark]

I had something that really changed the way I respond to criticism recently where some woman who I think had like, just started listening to the show, emailed and was like, you have no right to say that. You have nightmares. You haven't been a victim of crime like me and you haven't experienced what I've experienced. And like, my gut instinct was to respond with like, well, actually, like, I was molested for years as a child. I was raped as an adult.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, you don't know.

[Josh Hallmark]

And you don't know what it's like to live in a dark case for a decade. And then I, I thought about something my therapist said to me once, which was like, if your mom came and like apologized for everything that happened, what would you do?

[Amanda Jacobson]

I'd die.

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, I was like, why? I wouldn't believe it. And.

[Charlie Worrell]

Right.

[Josh Hallmark]

So I kind of applied that here, where it was like, nothing I say is going to change how you feel, because ultimately it's not about me. And it's just an exercise in, like, me trying to prove myself to someone who doesn't. Really isn't interested in, like, who I actually am. They're just projecting something.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Are they interested in understanding you as a person or are like you said, are they projecting something that's more about you and that can be really impossible to know in a comment section when you're right in a room with somebody?

[Josh Hallmark]

And then, like, someone recently was like, what does Josh do for mmiw? And, like, I got all, like, twisted about it. And then I was like, kyle and Olathe, what do you do for mmiw? So I'm trying to just, like, not take it on anymore by realizing ultimately very little of this is actually about us.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Right, Right.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah. I mean, so one time, a friend of ours, it was Nina instead from Already Gone podcast. Go listen if you haven't. Nina's so sweet. Well, because she's so sweet. There was a Reddit thread where people were being really nice about me, and she's like, I think you should go read it. Of course, by the time I see her text, by the time I click on it, somebody's come in and said, oh, my God, like, I. I used to listen, but. And they went on this whole thing about. I'm so smug. I've talked to you guys about how I feel about being called smug before.

[Josh Hallmark]

Nina wanted you to see. I know Nina.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Nina's evil and wanted you to see someone calling you smug. I'll tell you, Trigger for Charlie, because Charlie is not a smug person by any. She's been rode hard and put away wet by six kids. You think this is smug?

[Josh Hallmark]

And Mormonism.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And Mormonism.

[Charlie Worrell]

I've raised four teenagers. There's not a. A ton you can do to hurt my feelings.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Right.

[Charlie Worrell]

In that.

[Amanda Jacobson]

But it's broken in ways we can.

[Josh Hallmark]

Never imagine physically, emotionally.

[Charlie Worrell]

Josh has met my daughter. Like, she's a lot, you know, I.

[Josh Hallmark]

Scares me.

[Charlie Worrell]

She's absolutely terrifying. But no, she's. She's great. Eden, if you're listening to this, which you aren't, because it horrifies her that I have a podcast. But I, like, my feelings generally aren't going to get hurt. But I will get frustrated with the idea of being misunderstood, and I'll want to explain myself, and I do. If someone emails me directly, they're much more likely to get a response than if they leave a comment. I'll. In the Internet, I just move on from that. But if you email me directly and it sounds like you're looking for a conversation. A like, let's meet in the middle. Let's can you, you know, this bothered me. Can, you know, and I feel like there's a conversation there. I will engage, but if they're just.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Coming at me, I just move on a hundred percent.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Hey.

[Dan Morgan]

How's it going today?

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many cases?

[Dan Morgan]

The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end, that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our clients.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Are insurance companies, like, actually afraid of you guys?

[Dan Morgan]

We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large verdicts.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Awesome.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan? What would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone and our call center is always waiting to take your call. 24 7. 365.

[Josh Hallmark]

Wow.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the show.

[Dan Morgan]

Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near you.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping and this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

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[Amanda Jacobson]

I mean, our listeners know this. We have A fake intern named Derek who has his own folder in our email where some things just get sent to Derek.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah, because.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, I mean, it, It's, It's. There's a lot of things that are important that we do in the world that have to do with our jobs as podcasters and have nothing to do with our jobs as podcasters because we have big, full lives that were, you know, struggling every day to try to fucking keep together outside of putting out that content. And you really do sometimes have to decide, like, this is not where I am capable of putting my energy today.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And that's not an easy lesson to learn, especially if, like, you do touch on something but polarizing. And a lot of people come out of the woodwork to have their feelings about it. And on one hand, I'm like, okay, there's a conversation happening, and I don't need to be part of it. Yeah, you know, I said my piece, and for the most part, like, I live very authentically. I, I some of that by force because I don't really think before I speak. So I, I move very much from, like, where I'm rooted and how I feel in the moment, and that can be a problem. And I think that can also help kind of, like, preserve that authenticity that I'm committed to. Committed to. Because I really don't know how to live any other way. I'm a fucking mentally ill person. So it does get challenging when it's like this person is upset about something I said or upset about something I feel, and I move very much, like, very deeply rooted in my value system. And so they don't like me. And it's like, that is something I had to really let go of because, a, I'm not put on this planet to be liked, even though I'm a rdhd libra attention getter. Like, I love to be perceived. I love to be the center of attention. I love to bring people joy. I love to make people laugh. It's like, what I live for. And so the idea of not being liked used to be something that would absolutely destroy me. But there is kind of a callous, a loving callus that has built up over the years of, like, not everybody has to like you. And it's actually very much okay for us to not agree on some things. And that's not me saying, like, openly welcome your trumpy, you know, husband or uncle or friend. Like, if we're completely misaligned in, like, our true values, then, no, I don't need you to like me. And I don't want to like you either, but there are some things like, that are small, that are smaller, like the Taylor Swift of it all.

[Charlie Worrell]

I don't.

[Amanda Jacobson]

You people can love Taylor Swift. I have no problem with that. I don't. I don't turn her off the second she comes on whatever music app I'm listening on. Like, I don't. People can do what they want to do. When it gets into the nitty gritty of, like, deeply offensive, problematic, then it's. It's a block. But I don't really use that block button that much. I'm pretty open to, like, hearing what people have to say. That's how we learn.

[Josh Hallmark]

I also, like, I have never in my life been compelled to, like, send Shonda Rhymes a crazy email, being like, you killed George o'. Malley. You selfish. Because I'm just kind of like, oh, George is dead. I'm gonna move on with my life now. I've got shit to do.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It was devastating. And, Josh, save it, because we are working on a project behind the scenes.

[Josh Hallmark]

We are working on a project, one that, for some reason, I'm more passionate about than our Housewives project. I'm like, oh, we can own this project.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I know.

[Josh Hallmark]

But I also just think, like, that also, if someone's reaching out to you about something, like, they didn't, like, a choice you made, or, like, they felt like you were whatever. Like, I get screamed at because episodes aren't long enough, or I get screamed at because they're too long, or I get screamed at because there's too many ads. Or I get screamed at because I don't have better microphones. And I'm like, well, the ads pay for the microphones. And I'm just like, at the end of the day, again, like, it's not about me, because when I leave this office, like, I have a life I have to live too, and I can't just be, like, mired in what strangers have to say to me, which is also unhinged, because, like I said, who's got the time to write Shonda. Shonda Rhimes, an email.

[Charlie Worrell]

It's funny, though, that we're talking about this, because last night I was working on research on a case, and I was using a Dateline podcast, they're Missing in America podcast as a source, and they had a date completely wrong. And I was like, I bet.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Kind of understandably peeved about that.

[Charlie Worrell]

I bet Josh Mankiewicz got zero emails. But if I made that same mistake, and I am have such a smaller platform People will email me because they feel connected to me in a different way than they do with these corporate celebrity podcasts. And Josh Mankiewicz, if you guys have ever met him, is the nicest guy.

[Josh Hallmark]

He shots with him at crime. Crime.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes, he is like the nicest guy. Very, very friendly. But when you're listening to Dateline podcasts, you don't think, oh, I could email this guy and he'll respond. He actually probably will. Especially if you tweet at him. He probably actually will respond. But, you know, I know that we build kind of more of a relationship with our listeners, even though, you know, Josh and I are more scripted, less personality driven, but thinking about, like, putting your authentic self completely behind that microphone and just projecting it out. Like, Josh and I are like that in person. If you come on a tour of a trip, if you come to a meetup, you're getting the full. You come to a live show, heaven help you, you're getting the full. You're getting the full us. Plus a couple gin and tonics that we drink before.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yeah. Unless I've been drinking, though, I will power down at some point.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah, Josh will. Josh will need to go and be alone for a minute.

[Amanda Jacobson]

But when he has been drinking, he'll put himself to bed eventually.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah, or he will have some help putting himself to bed. But yeah, we. Eventually, he'll get to bed. That's what matters.

[Josh Hallmark]

With all my stuff. I always do. It's a miracle.

[Charlie Worrell]

It's a fucking miracle.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Even when you leave shit like an iPad at the Airbnb, you still get it back.

[Josh Hallmark]

In all fairness, the iPad case was white and the comforter was white.

[Charlie Worrell]

That's not your fault.

[Amanda Jacobson]

That's 100% on them.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah, so we. But I mean, I just feel like we. You know, you see our authentic selves in person, but you don't necessarily get that, which is one of the reasons I do like the meetups is we get to kind of build these reciprocal relationships a little bit more. And it. Not all podcast listeners want to know us more. You know, they are happy to just listen and then move on at the end of our episode.

[Josh Hallmark]

Do not.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah, we're on, like, two times speed. We fill 30 minutes to 17 hours of their day if you're wine and crime.

[Amanda Jacobson]

But, oh, my God, that shade is so legitimate. Like, our episodes are so fucking long. We have so much content. It's overwhelming.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah. And then they listen and they move on. But for the ones who do want to meet us, do want to engage on social media and, like, Actually make a connection. I mean, I think all three of us are almost always down for that.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Oh.

[Josh Hallmark]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

100. It's some of my favorite parts of the job. And, like, I mean, again, our situations are different in. In the styles of our three shows, with you and Josh having a much more sense similar, like, very straight to the chase, like, much more serious tone show, which I think is incredible and so valuable and creates this really special opportunity at these meetups for people to kind of meet you for real for the first time. And for me, which is totally opposite my. Some of my favorite feedback is like, oh, she's just like, she is on the podcast. And it's like, yes, this because. And part of that. Part of that feedback being so satisfying and validating to me is because a very public breakup that I had very much on the show that had merch before the breakup. It was kind of a crazy time. Literally, like, a local, like, magazine reached out to me about it.

[Josh Hallmark]

Oh, God, it was nuts.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah. And I'm like, so bottom of the barrel in the world of quote, unquote, celebrity. Like, it's this niche pocket of people who know who the I am anyway. So I was like, why would anybody care about this? But it was very devastating to hear from that person that I had become, quote, unquote, my podcast personality. And I was like, I don't know what that means.

[Josh Hallmark]

I can say without hesitation, who you are on the show is who you are out in the world.

[Amanda Jacobson]

So too. So it. It was very, like, it kind. And I Now I can look back on and be like, why would you ever give that much power to a literal man? Like, what the. But it did. That moment in my life kind of rocked me to be like, wait, hold on. I'm someone who values living in their authenticity both on the mic and off. What does this mean? If this person who I've been with for all these years, who I thought I was gonna marry, is telling me that I'm not the same person, that.

[Josh Hallmark]

Means he's putting on a show threatened by your success.

[Amanda Jacobson]

100.

[Charlie Worrell]

That's exactly what it means.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And that's not now with. With the 2020 hindsight. I can see that. But it. It really is nice to connect with people and have them, like, be affirmed in that.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

No, I'm just an idiot on a microphone. And I'm an idiot not on a microphone. Like, I'm just. I'm just a dumb person on a rock that's literally hurtling through space. Like, what is even holding us here? And don't talk to me about gravity, because it's just a theory.

[Josh Hallmark]

A few weeks ago.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Makes sense.

[Josh Hallmark]

We were watching tv and I was eating popcorn, and Andrew just started laughing hysterically. And I was like, what's so funny? He was like, I am sitting here watching you pick kernels out of your teeth with your fingers, knowing that there are thousands of people who think that you are this, like, serious investigative journalist. But it's so true.

[Charlie Worrell]

But I swear, whatever. People are like, I can just hear in Josh's voice, he's just so empathetic. He seems like the nicest guy. I'm like, empathetic, yes. Very empathetic.

[Josh Hallmark]

To a fault. Nice.

[Charlie Worrell]

No, not nice.

[Amanda Jacobson]

He's evil.

[Josh Hallmark]

And, like, I think I'm a nice person, but, like, you're a kind person.

[Charlie Worrell]

You're not a nice person.

[Amanda Jacobson]

A kind.

[Josh Hallmark]

Not nice. And the. The threshold is very low for the amount of bullshit I'm willing to take.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Josh has really become a great barometer for me personally. For, like, who in. In the Zeitgeist, we're just, like, not really fudgeing with right now.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes.

[Amanda Jacobson]

If Josh is with that person, it's like, okay, we. We can. We'll. We'll give them. We'll give them grace. But if Josh is not with that person, then I know something happened and it's done.

[Josh Hallmark]

I grew up in, like, such a deeply abusive household that at this point in my life, I'm like, no, I'm not taking that on.

[Charlie Worrell]

If Josh leaves a group chat, I know I should probably go with him.

[Amanda Jacobson]

What's the last group chat you left? You don't have to say. You can tell me off.

[Josh Hallmark]

It was crime con related.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Oh, that makes sense. That makes sense. That's so funny. Okay, I know that we have lots to talk about, but I also pulled up some really stupid icebreaker questions.

[Josh Hallmark]

Oh, my God.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yes. Okay. But some of these are pretty great, and I'm curious about them. So I am going to augment this one a little bit because it says fictional, but I want to open it up to the full universe of possibilities. I'm thinking, especially Housewives. So if you could have any fictional or not fictional character, character or real person as your roommate, who would it be?

[Charlie Worrell]

I'm going through the Housewives and going, no, no, no.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yes.

[Charlie Worrell]

That's my problem.

[Josh Hallmark]

Like, my instinct with was Meredith Gray, but I feel like that would get annoying very fast.

[Charlie Worrell]

Oh, she's a lot.

[Josh Hallmark]

She's.

[Charlie Worrell]

She needs a lot.

[Amanda Jacobson]

She needs.

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes, A lot.

[Amanda Jacobson]

She'd be very helpful. To someone chronically ill like me, I would have to overt. I mean, I'm. I'm so glad she's spending all this time and energy on curing Alzheimer's. Yes, of course. Valiant effort. Really important.

[Josh Hallmark]

Well, and there you get, though. She's bicoastal, so she won't be around a lot, right?

[Charlie Worrell]

Yes.

[Amanda Jacobson]

But I'm gonna need her to switch gears and get on that diabetes train, because I'm over this.

[Josh Hallmark]

I think Bailey's work. No, Richard's working on diabetes, I think.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And you and I both fucking know it. Charlie, do you watch Grey's Anatomy?

[Charlie Worrell]

No.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Okay, well, Richard's been retiring for 25 seasons.

[Josh Hallmark]

Like Elton John that he's.

[Amanda Jacobson]

He's Cher and Elton John combined in terms of how hard he's been trying to retire, which is zero. He's put zero effort.

[Josh Hallmark]

Amanda and I learned three weeks ago in Palm Springs that we are two of the only people who still watch Grey's Anatomy.

[Charlie Worrell]

I have to admit, I didn't know it was still on, like, with new episodes. Like, you're not just watching reruns.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Both.

[Josh Hallmark]

And.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It'S.

[Charlie Worrell]

I. I actually had no idea it was still on. Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Jacobson]

And I will never not watch it.

[Josh Hallmark]

I'll be there to the bitter end.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I, I. If. If it lasts long, if I'm not watching Grey's Anatomy, two things have happened. I have died or it has finally ended. Those are the only ways I'm doing.

[Josh Hallmark]

A rewatch, because whenever I'm sad, I do a rewatch, and I have, like.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Seasonal depression right now.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yeah, exactly. It's.

[Charlie Worrell]

It's your Dawson's Creek.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I love Dawson's Creek.

[Josh Hallmark]

We'll get you and the Captain watching together. It's his favorite show. He talks about it endlessly.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, that tracks. Yeah. Evaluate yourself, Captain.

[Josh Hallmark]

Anyway, I'm watching last night.

[Amanda Jacobson]

He's under his pores porch, and I.

[Josh Hallmark]

Realized, like, I've known Meredith Gray talk about parasocial. For 20 years, which is, like, longer than I've known you guys.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yes, yes, I know everything about her.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi, Dan.

[Josh Hallmark]

Hey.

[Dan Morgan]

How's it going today?

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you do.

[Dan Morgan]

I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury law firm.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently. It said 20 billion one. 20 billion is an insane number.

[Dan Morgan]

Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north. Probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and better and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time goes on. Awesome.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan, what would I do if I got into an accident?

[Dan Morgan]

Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247 365.

[Josh Hallmark]

Wow.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Dan Morgan from Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by the.

[Dan Morgan]

Show. Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office near.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

You. This podcast is supported by the Real Real. Meet Christine. She loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

RealReal. I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal. Game changer. I earn more. And they do.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Everything. Seriously, just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

Members. And I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than anywhere.

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Else. Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The Real Real. Earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com I've seen it.

[Amanda Jacobson]

All. I wouldn't choose her as my roommate, though. No, I think I'd go fictional. And I think I'd go with some sort of like, wizard because I feel like it would make household chores much easier. So I, I would want, like a Gandalf. Somebody who's traveling a lot but always has good weed, fun, fireworks. But then when he is home, I can be like, okay, here's the honey do list. And he waves his staff or whatever. And everything's clean. Everything's gooch. If I really have, like, a big problem, I could be like, gandy, you gotta get back home. Shit's going. A pipe burst. The landlord is not responding to my calls. And, like, he's gonna, he's gonna come through for you because he's the. He's Gandalf. I mean, I would take the gray or the white. I don't care which version of him I'm getting. I want you shall not pass level roommate relationship. That's what I want. He'd keep shitty men out. You know, he. I think he would love my cats. I really think we'd have a good time living with.

[Josh Hallmark]

Gandalf. I need someone who, like, isn't. Is like a social introvert who can let me be alone for a while, but who also, like, can drink about their feelings if we have a bad.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Day. So.

[Josh Hallmark]

Andrew. Andrew doesn't.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Drink. Oh, that's.

[Josh Hallmark]

True. But.

[Amanda Jacobson]

He'Ll. He'll entertain your drinking and, and going.

[Josh Hallmark]

Off. Oh, that's cute that you think.

[Amanda Jacobson]

That. Oh, okay. Maybe in.

[Josh Hallmark]

Paradise. Maybe Babette or Miss.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Patty. Oh, my God.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yes. Oh, Babette has a cat. I would. I would live with.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Babette. I would totally live with Babette. And I like. I mean, my husband is not a nosy person at all. I honestly like, one of the best. He will listen to any of the. That I need to spew. But, like, if you, if you want the tea, if you want to, like, gossip. Bill's not it. And I actually think that that's one of his better qualities is that he's not. He's not compelled to, like, talk about people. He has to be pretty. Like, something weird has to have gone down for him to be, like, I have to tell you about this weird thing that happened. You know, he's. Whereas me, if somebody's like, toenail fell off at a. At a function, I'd be like, telling everyone, like, I love any little bit of tea. But it's something that I actually really appreciate about him. And like you said, Josh, we're on all the time. And, like, I'm very much on 90% of the time. So in. I think very few people have, like, stayed in my house for long periods of time and experienced how, like, we really live at home. And it is a very quiet life. Like, I'm chilling, like, barely, barely talking, because all I do for a fudgeing living is.

[Josh Hallmark]

Talk. Well, I'll say you.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Spent. Is something nice about.

[Josh Hallmark]

That. You spent four days with me for my birthday two years ago, and I would say you were one of the more quieter people there, which is.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Like, I think people do end up being kind of surprised by that. You see it a little on the trover trips, I would say. And on those trips, I'm very upfront with people that, like, I will be down for all of the events. I'll be up at the crack of dawn. Like, I'll be On the bus, I'll be engaging all day. And then when y' all are figuring out where you want to go to dinner, I'm getting on. On doordash in Ireland and getting in my bed. Because, like, I have to. I, I, I'm disengaging. I have to disengage. And it's not personal. It's personal to me.

[Charlie Worrell]

I.

[Josh Hallmark]

Right. I power through. I do everything. But then when I get home, I, like, lock myself in my room and play Animal Crossing for five.

[Charlie Worrell]

Days. Yeah, we had. When we were in Asheville, we were in Josh's cabin talking. And I can go all day, all day, all night. We're chatting. Justin's in.

[Josh Hallmark]

There.

[Charlie Worrell]

We're. And Josh just looks. He goes. So I was thinking a nap and then meet back at 6 for dinner. And I look, I'm like, are you kicking me out? And he's like, yes, very politely. I'm making a nap. I'm thinking alone.

[Josh Hallmark]

Time. And then Grandpa Justin, instead of leaving, just helped himself to my.

[Charlie Worrell]

Jacuzzi. He spent a lot of time in your. I looked over and I'm like, why is Justin in Josh's hot tub the whole weekend? The whole.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Weekend. But who would be your roommate?

[Charlie Worrell]

Charlie? It's actually funny when you were talking about Gandalf and about, like, the things he could provide, because mine, mine was Bronwyn Newport from Salt Lake City, because I think she needs.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Me. She needs.

[Josh Hallmark]

Me. Someone needs to clean up that dog.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Shit. Actually, I thought a Broadwood did cross my mind because I was like, she's cool with the dog. She wouldn't care about my cats puking all over the. Yeah, she wouldn't be, like, a pain in the ass about.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

It.

[Charlie Worrell]

Right? Like, her standards. I. I'm kind of a slob. So, like, her standards can't be too.

[Josh Hallmark]

High. The decor, she seems.

[Charlie Worrell]

Tough. You know what? She. It's not. I. You know what? In any other franchise, I'd agree. But, like, Mary Cosby exists in this.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Franchise. Love the chairs. I will not fucking wear it. I will not fucking hear it about. There will be no Mary Cosby decor slander in this fucking.

[Charlie Worrell]

House. You're like all the other Mary Cosby slanders. Fine. Not the.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Decor. There is plenty of Mary and Bronwyn and all housewives slander. That is perfectly valid. Leave that. You can leave the chairs alone. They're incredible around that tiny.

[Charlie Worrell]

Table.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bronwyn. That's.

[Charlie Worrell]

Hilarious. Honestly. You know what? It's the tiny table that really.

[Josh Hallmark]

Brings it together, which is inexplicably. Filled with, like, vintage candy machines.

[Charlie Worrell]

Like gumball machines, for absolutely no reason. But yeah, I think. I think Bronwyn needs to be remothered. And. And I. I remother a lot of my.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Friends. It's probably hard for you to watch the Bronwyn muzzy scenes. Oh, gosh.

[Charlie Worrell]

Ronwin. To be your.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Painful. Yeah, that's.

[Josh Hallmark]

Rough. All right, Amanda, crack open another.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Icebreaker. Okay, I have another one. And I'm really excited for Josh's answer to this. What is the most ridiculous thing you've ever purchased? Either on. It says online, but let's say online or.

[Josh Hallmark]

Offline. Charlie, you go first. I'm gonna have to think about. We have so many, like, weird costume parties. I'm sure it has something to do with.

[Charlie Worrell]

That. Oh, why would. I can't even think of anything. I mean, like, other than like, just dumb white elephant things, but like some, like, a real thing. I don't know. I mean, my husband and I did drink one night and ordered all new, like, dining room furniture one night. But that seems like normal for people to do you drink and order.

[Josh Hallmark]

Furniture? Oh, yeah. The one thing that stands out is actually the one that got away. There's like this weird shop across from where we usually do brunch on the weekends. And it, like, has no business being in our town because it's like dumb art that costs thousands of.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Dollars.

[Josh Hallmark]

Right? And yeah, they had like a wood carved beaver for $3,000 and it was life size. And I, like, I didn't get it. No, I was like. I was like, I can't. I mean, I. I could not justify spending that money. And I can justify spending money on anything. I just. I would walk past every Sunday being like, I should get that beaver. I should get that beaver. I should get that.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Beaver. And then you never.

[Josh Hallmark]

Did. No. And not because someone else did, but because the shop went out of.

[Charlie Worrell]

Business. I will say my adult kids this summer got on a business was closing and so they were doing online auctions for all their. And it's all like random, random stuff. And they bought like neon signs that for like, just random stuff. But one of my kids, the one that still freaking lives here, so it now lives in my house, bought a giant thing of bubble wrap, but, like the big bubble wrap, like a huge roll. And I was like, is that even gonna fit in your Kia? Like, how are you getting that home? But yeah, I. I don't think I bought any. I'm pretty tight watt. Like, I don't buy a lot of stuff. Josh knows I'm cheap.

[Josh Hallmark]

As. Yeah, you're.

[Charlie Worrell]

Cheap. Anything. I'm so.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Cheap. Well, it doesn't. It doesn't mean you have to have spent a lot of money on.

[Charlie Worrell]

It. I don't spend money on.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yourself. Like something.

[Josh Hallmark]

Dumb. I bought. I. I bought you something dumb. Lucy and I were, like, 10 margaritas in two weeks ago and got you a cameo. We won't say.

[Amanda Jacobson]

What. Who that was from, but they did. We. We were. I was high as a. And these two were hammered, and it was 12:30 in the afternoon in Palm Springs, and I. We were talking about our Christmas list, and I made the mistake of joking about all I want for Christmas is a cameo from Will not be.

[Josh Hallmark]

Named, someone who does not deserve the money we gave.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Him. And 23 minutes later, I had a cameo in my inbox from someone who will not be named, which is now one of my most precious, priceless, secret.

[Josh Hallmark]

Treasures. I watched that cameo at least 100.

[Charlie Worrell]

Times. Was it at least good?

[Amanda Jacobson]

Because.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yes. I sent it to you. You've seen it. I sent it to.

[Charlie Worrell]

Charlie. Oh, that one. I showed that to Lars and I. Before I showed it to him, I said, just so you know, Josh ordered it. So a lot of the comments are okay. Like, oh, I did see that.

[Amanda Jacobson]

One on so many levels, and it's so absurd and hilarious that I don't. And, like, it doesn't cross. It's not problematic because it's, like, racist or xenophobic or homophobic or, like, it's not problematic in that way. So before anybody's rumor mill starts flying. And no, I'm never gonna.

[Josh Hallmark]

Tell. It's quite sex. It's quite sex.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Positive.

[Charlie Worrell]

Positive.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yes. This is sex positive. This is something that will be staying in the vault just for us. Maybe on my deathbed, I'll release it when you.

[Josh Hallmark]

Die. It's going to be your epitaph. We're going to have it.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Transcribed. My.

[Charlie Worrell]

Hologram.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yes. Tombstone will be playing it on repeat when I die, because people can piss on my grave. I don't care. Do whatever you.

[Charlie Worrell]

Want. See, I had someone buy me a joke cameo, and the guy did not deliver at all. Like, it was so boring and terrible. And I'll actually name him. I'll name mine. It was for Mike Boudet from Sword and.

[Josh Hallmark]

Scale. That's almost as problematic.

[Amanda Jacobson]

As. It's up.

[Charlie Worrell]

There. It's up there. It's up there. But he did not deliver. I mean, he, like, did literally. The bare.

[Josh Hallmark]

Minimum. At least ours was a charming.

[Charlie Worrell]

Sociopath. Yes, this one is like, it's so. It was like we couldn't even. Like, we thought it would be. The person who bought it for me thought it would be funny. And then it was, like, such a letdown because it wasn't like we bought Joshua Sonia Morgan one, and it was just like, she was, like, drunk at the pool doing it. It.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Was. Which is livered, which is how we did our Spotify wrapped video. Fifteen minutes after that Spotify rap video was recorded in the pool at Palm Springs. I had to get out of the pool and put myself in a timeout in the corner because I was so high that all I could do was press gently on my face while Hannah across the pool kept, like, mouthing to me, are you okay? That trip was nuts. It was so funny, too, because I got home and I was like, I think I had four drinks in four days. But I have, like, not been that up in a long time because I was just smoking weed from, like, basically the second we woke up until we went to.

[Josh Hallmark]

Bed. Well, and it was supposed to. We were supposed to go to, like, reset and relax. Lucy and I were drunk the whole weekend. You were high the whole.

[Charlie Worrell]

Weekend now. So Josh was planning a podcaster thing in the spring, and we were going to go to one place, and after that Palm Springs trip, he goes, you know where we should go? We should go to Palm Springs instead. So now I'm getting an idea of what we're. What we're looking.

[Amanda Jacobson]

For. It genuinely was such a beautiful retreat. It was so nice to just, like, be surrounded by a everybody who completely gets it. So if you have, like, anything that you needed to just unburden yourself with, just being surrounded by people who truly have stood in exactly your shoes and to, like, lean into connecting with each other and learning from each other and just enjoying life with each other was so.

[Josh Hallmark]

Special. And it was so, like, we work, not work forward, but, like, a lot of good work happened there. Like, we came up with our new show. You got tawny on your.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Show. Like, well, what? Really fruitful. It was.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Amazing. I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say hi.

[Dan Morgan]

Dan. Hey, how's it going.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Today? It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what you.

[Dan Morgan]

Do. I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest and injury law.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Firm. That's pretty awesome. Why do you guys think you win so many.

[Dan Morgan]

Cases? The insurance companies and other companies that we go against know that we're going to take it to the end that we believe in the case. So we fight for every dollar and we're not afraid to go that extra mile for our.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Clients. Are insurance companies like actually afraid of you.

[Dan Morgan]

Guys? We don't bluff. We take it to trial. And we are not strangers of getting very, very, very large.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Verdicts.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan, what would I do if I got into an.

[Dan Morgan]

Accident? Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone and our call center is always waiting to take your call. 247.

[Josh Hallmark]

365.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Wow. Dan Morgan from Morgan & Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thanks for coming by.

[Dan Morgan]

The show. Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

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Anywhere else. Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The real real earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com what I.

[Charlie Worrell]

Loved about the guest list, which I didn't go for scheduling and.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Other reasons. But, you know, we missed.

[Charlie Worrell]

You though. I'm sure.

[Josh Hallmark]

You did. Now, the room you would have been in.

[Charlie Worrell]

Was tough. That's how it always goes. You know, I will that.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Jason left and checked into.

[Charlie Worrell]

A.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Hotel. Oh. That was motivated by.

[Josh Hallmark]

Other.

[Charlie Worrell]

Needs. Yes. Well, I think that like one of the things that I liked about the guest list for that was it was. It's the people who've been in the industry for.

[Josh Hallmark]

A while. Yeah, we all started in like 15.

[Charlie Worrell]

Or 16. Right. Everyone started around the same time. People have gone in different directions. Some people are not even podcasting anymore. Some people like Tawny have blown up like on social media and other ways. And it was just I'm so happy for her. Yes, it's just like such that, like getting everyone together and seeing the evolution from where everybody started, I mean, that would have been incredible. But then also it wasn't all true crime people. And I think that's something that we're kind of seeing. We silo so much these days that we're not connecting with other podcasters as much. And so. And I know Josh has tried to bridge that. He was really active with the Berkshire Podcast Festival, trying to get non true crime podcasters.

[Josh Hallmark]

To come. And we only.

[Charlie Worrell]

Got one. Got one. And she was terrific. Loved her. But it's like wanting to kind of, you know, we just got. I think honestly, it's the way the festivals have been. It's the CrimeCon, the true crime podcast festival. They've kind of been putting us in boxes a little bit. And I also think it would.

[Josh Hallmark]

Be nice. The industry's so commercialized now where it's like, I'm not reaching out to, like, Charlie Wuerl from Kansas City. I'm reaching out to, like, someone's publicist in.

[Charlie Worrell]

La. Like. Right, yeah. So it's. But so getting together with the independent podcasters who've gone in all these different directions, it really sounds like an incredible weekend. Even if you don't remember all of it was. Sure.

[Josh Hallmark]

Was incredible. I strangely remember most.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Of it. Yeah, me too. Burned into my memory. Okay. The dumbest, the craziest or silliest thing I.

[Charlie Worrell]

Ever.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bought. Yes. I didn't buy it online. We did the Just for Laughs Podcast Festival in Vancouver several, many years ago now. Like, that was like, not long after Covet, so at least like five or six years ago. And in Vancouver in Canada, mushrooms are very much legal. And they had like an. An artist suite at the hotel that was like, just snacks, movies, merch, like freebies, grab bags, and just like a chill place that you could hang between seeing other people's shows and doing your own shows, etc. Etc. Etc. But it had a.

[Charlie Worrell]

Mushroom.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bar. Wow. And it was incredible. They were in capsules and each one was labeled for, like, if you want this experience, take this and take this many. Like, it was so nice and so curious curated. It was very much like a dispensary experience and it was free. So I basically just took handfuls of pill packets from.

[Charlie Worrell]

Each bucket. Your pockets are.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bulging, bulging. And then Lucy and I had a beautiful afternoon where I took much more than she did and we wandered around Vancouver. We had a beautiful lunch. We went on a little, like, boat taxi ride. And then on our way back, when I was like, really feeling it. We. There was a Prada store right around the corner from our hotel. And I saw those. Well, the begonia pink Prada jellies in the window. And Lucy said, rip, yeah, well, we'll get to it. She said, you cannot buy those. And I said, the. I can't. And I went inside and I got out my capital one. Which. Which card was it? This doesn't matter. Venture card. Got.

[Charlie Worrell]

The miles. He got.

[Amanda Jacobson]

The miles. And I loved them so much, I brought them home. I wore them all the time. And wearing them in the video of Bill proposing to me. And he hated those shoes. Hated them. He thought they were so obnoxious. And he texted me one day while I was at work and is like, I have something to tell you. And I was like, what? And he had. It was an accident. I did suspect sabotage in the beginning, but I really did. Once he gave me his full story, I. I did believe it. He's not a liar. And he broke them. He accidentally stepped on them when he was trying to get inside the door. I probably put them way too close to. To the front door and they snapped at like, where the rubber met the buckle. And they were within the one year warranty. So I contacted the company and I said, I don't know how this happened. This snapped off. I. I haven't even been wearing them that much. And they said that they could replace them, but I couldn't get them in the. In the United States in begonia pink, so I had to get a different color. But they're fine. I have the periwinkle ones now. But yeah, they very much become like, part of my personality. They're like the only designer shoe that I own and I'm obsessed with them and to the point where, like, they're a sandal, they're a rubber sandal, but, like, I will put on a sock and cram them on my foot in the dead of winter. And I don't regret it. And I never will. So anyway.

[Josh Hallmark]

That happened. Well, there.

[Amanda Jacobson]

We go. Do we want.

[Josh Hallmark]

Another one? Let's do one. Let's do one more and then we can like, slowly trail out.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Of this. Yeah, I love it. Oh, okay. Okay. If you could instantly become an expert at something, what would.

[Josh Hallmark]

It be? This is.

[Amanda Jacobson]

So nerdy. Okay. I.

[Josh Hallmark]

Love it. I grew up playing SimCity and like, I only play the Sims and Animal Crossing to like, develop a community. So, like.

[Amanda Jacobson]

City planning. Not at all where I thought you were going to take that.

[Josh Hallmark]

That's amazing. Yeah, I think you Good.

[Amanda Jacobson]

At that. You're a.

[Josh Hallmark]

Great connector. I think.

[Amanda Jacobson]

So too. You're a good community.

[Charlie Worrell]

Builder, period. Mine's so dumb, and it's only because I can't become an expert in it, no matter how hard I have tried. I would really like to be able to make my macarons without them cracking or having sad feet or any of the 75 other things that go wrong with them. And I don't know how all these home bakers like macarons. They bake up and they have feet on them. They're aesthetic. They don't really have to do with the texture or anything, but it's how they bake. It's just. It's a thing. I would. I'd become an expert baker. That is what I.

[Josh Hallmark]

Would do. Chef would be good, because I love cooking, and I think I'm good at it until I watch Top Chef, and I'm like, I don't even know what they're saying.

[Charlie Worrell]

Right now. Well, sometimes. Hilarious. And I go to a restaurant, and he's like, can you tell me what these foods that are listed under the dish are? And so I'm like, oh, well, that's a cheese, and that's a this and that. But I. Then I want. There are so many times I'm like, actually, I gotta look that up. I've never heard of that food before or whatever. So. Yeah, I mean, just anything Chef.

[Josh Hallmark]

Baking related. That's good. What about.

[Amanda Jacobson]

You, Amanda? I would.

[Josh Hallmark]

Choose.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Piano. Oh. I really love music. I love to sing, and I've, like, always wanted to be able to play an instrument, and I feel like a piano is a good fit for, like, the kind of music that I like to sing. But B, piano is such, like, a beautiful and complex instrument that I feel like is a gateway into a lot of other instruments. Like, a lot of people who can play piano can kind of find their way around other, like.

[Charlie Worrell]

String.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Instruments. Yeah. And. And I just. I. I would. If I could wake up tomorrow and be an expert at something, it was. Would always 100% be that.

[Josh Hallmark]

I would. And it's easier for you to learn other languages too. Like, I've heard.

[Amanda Jacobson]

When you. When you're a.

[Charlie Worrell]

Piano person.

[Josh Hallmark]

Yeah, yeah. Or just any type of instruments and language. It's kind of. You're using the.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Same.

[Charlie Worrell]

Muscles. Wow. Yeah. We started our kids in piano, and they've kind of gone different directions with music and without. But, yeah, I mean, we started them in piano for that same thing. It's just.

[Amanda Jacobson]

So foundational. What was your, like, childhood I was in band or orchestra. You were forced to play an instrument. Instrument. Did you.

[Josh Hallmark]

Have that? I took a year of piano and quit because I expected I was going to be like a prodigy.

[Charlie Worrell]

And wasn't. Girl, that actually so tracks with.

[Josh Hallmark]

Your.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Personality. Yeah. The way if I try something new and I'm not immediately good at it, I never want to fucking do.

[Josh Hallmark]

It.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Again. Yeah. And meanwhile, I have a husband who's like, self taught in all of, like, the major areas of his life, including music. He's a very talented musician, but he's also like a videographer who taught himself how to use all of this equipment and all of this other amazing. And he can like, go down the rabbit hole of being taught on, like YouTube or just watching other people do things. And then he's so good at it, and I'm like, how do you do that? That I want to know how to.

[Charlie Worrell]

Do that. My. My oldest kid, he was one where everything comes easy and then once it gets hard, he's out. So, like, he did piano until he moved to the next level book, and then he's like, oh, I actually have to practice to get this. I think I'm done. But then my third son, he's tw. He's self taught. He's taught himself all sorts of things. I don't even know how he learns anything because I'm like, how do you know that? He's like, I looked it up. Like, well, okay. I like. You looked up how to play instruments and you retained it and then you moved on to the next level. Yeah, he's. He's very much.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Self taught. You're a. We're a walking miracle. Okay, cool. I played cello for years and my mom, like, wouldn't, couldn't, wouldn't, or couldn't always drive me to school on cello days, so I would have to lug that thing on and off the school bus. And then choir auditions opened in middle school. Like, I. I did. Well, no, I did choir. Choir auditions open in fifth grade for the middle school choir. So you can see if you could skip the entry level choir and get into the varsity choir. And so fifth grade, I auditioned for varsity choir for my sixth grade year, and I got in. And then I was like this cello. Because I can lug this voice around with no effort for I only really ever learned how to play Ode to Joy. And then that.

[Josh Hallmark]

Was it. My favorite storyline on Southern Charm right now, which is a show about, like micro racists getting drunk in Charleston. Is this girl gorgeous, gorgeous girl who was on America's Next Top Model is now on, and she plays the tuba. And so while everyone's getting hammered, she's always like, oh, I really. I'm missing tuba practice. And then she'll, like, start crying. It's.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Incredible. Incredible. She's like, that dedicated.

[Josh Hallmark]

To.

[Charlie Worrell]

Tuba. Yes.

[Amanda Jacobson]

That's hilarious. So you didn't have, like, required music stuff at your school, Charlie.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Growing.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Up? Or. Or did you. You didn't. So did you not take any music? I didn't have required.

[Charlie Worrell]

Music credits. I mean, we. We had to do music. Like, in middle school, you were in a music class that everybody had to take, but we didn't have to do choir, band. And then in high school, we had a quote unquote fine arts credit, but, like, a lot of things qualified for that. So I don't even remember what I took, but I didn't take band.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Or choir. I was pretty lucky because. Well, I mean, very lucky for a million reasons. Privilege, privilege, privilege. But the schools that I was in in Minnesota growing up were very music and performing arts focused schools. They also had, like, pretty intense sports, but, like, our football team wasn't very good. I think it's decent now, but it's like, it was. You were kind of like, there were jocks and then there were, like, theater people. And I was very much a theater person and a choir person. And it was really cool. I mean, we got to travel all over the place. We had our own.

[Josh Hallmark]

Resident composer.

[Amanda Jacobson]

That's awesome. Who wrote music for our concert choir and our concert orchestra. And then, wow. Toured around Norway with our orchestra doing these, like, massive original pieces in, like, churches and all.

[Josh Hallmark]

Over Norway. It.

[Charlie Worrell]

Was awesome. That's crazy. My kids go to such a small school district. It's title one. It's in the city, and so they have a lot of opportunities, but they don't have opportunities like that. And, you know, that's like one of the, like, the only things where I'm like, maybe we should live in the suburbs is that those schools tend to have more of those. I think what my kids get at their school is worth what we're doing there. But, yeah, it's having opportunities like that.

[Josh Hallmark]

That's amazing. Amanda, why.

[Amanda Jacobson]

The cello? I know exactly why, actually. Because I wanted to play the double bass so bad. The stand up bass. It was like, that was my dream. I wanted to be my goal. I. I grew up very much in a jazz house. My dad was a huge, like, jazz and Motown guy, so. And the way that, like, my vocal style was developing as a kid Singing music that was basically like Nina Simone and Ella Fitzgerald. These, like, really talented altos. Ella Fitzgerald obviously has massive range that I could never possibly achieve. But I grew up, like, my dad would, like, play me videos of, like, these live sessions with these, like, he had all the Ken Burns jazz documentaries. I was like, I ate, slept, and breathed all this. And the double bass always fascinated me for two reasons. One, it was huge and the center of attention. And it didn't look that hard to play. It was four strings. You're. And little did I know, my husband's a bass player. It's like you are the foundation, and if you're up, like, everybody's screwed. So I don't know what I was thinking. But then when I got to the, like, level to where you're picking an instrument in elementary school, I was dead set on double bass. And they were like, you're too short. You can't play that. So I was like, fine, I'll play the cello because it's the same shape and it's small. Girl.

[Charlie Worrell]

You.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Dumb. No. That is.

[Charlie Worrell]

So hard. My daughter played the cello when she was little, and we had like, the little quarter size one. It was so cute. But I mean, those were private lessons because our school district, again, it's small. They don't even do instruments until middle school. And they don't do stringed instruments at all. It's pretty much just like marching band type stuff. They do HBCU style, which is very fun, very fun to watch. But my daughter went into percussion in band in high school because she was an Irish dancer. So keeping time was something she knew. And she's like, well, that'll be easy enough. But they put her on this giant bass drum, which is as big as she is, and then they do HBCU style. So there's a lot of bouncing around, getting down on you. She had like, these bruises across her legs from the. From the drum hitting it. And I was like, okay, we. You need a less of a contact sport.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Than band. I've got Dan Morgan here on the pod. Say.

[Dan Morgan]

Hi, Dan. Hey, how's it.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Going today? It's going good, man. Tell us who you are and what.

[Dan Morgan]

You do. I'm Dan Morgan. I'm an attorney and a managing partner at Morgan and Morgan, which is America's largest injury.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Law firm. That's pretty awesome. I think I saw a billboard of yours recently that said 20 billion won. 20 billion is an.

[Dan Morgan]

Insane number. Yeah, 20 billion recovered. It's actually, I think somewhere north, probably closer to 22, 23 after this year. And each year we get bigger and badder and our army grows. So the number will hopefully keep getting bigger and bigger as time.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Goes.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

On. Awesome. So how does someone get in contact with Morgan and Morgan, what would I do if I got into.

[Dan Morgan]

An accident? Probably the easiest way is dialing pound law. That's £529 from your cell phone. We are always open. Our call center is always waiting to take your call.

[Josh Hallmark]

247.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

365. Wow. Dan Morgan from Morgan and Morgan, America's large injury law firm. Thanks for coming by.

[Dan Morgan]

The show. Thanks for having me. Visit forthepeople.com for an office.

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Near you. This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping. And this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

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[Josh Hallmark]

That'S therealreal.com. well, we have been here for two and a half hours now. I understand why Wine and Crime episodes are eight.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Hours long. Yeah, because we chat. It's so fun.

[Josh Hallmark]

To chat. No? Well, especially with some of my.

[Charlie Worrell]

Favorite.

[Amanda Jacobson]

People. Yes.

[Charlie Worrell]

So much. We need to chat.

[Amanda Jacobson]

More often. Nobody's.

[Charlie Worrell]

Burning questions. Yeah. If anyone has any questions about podcasting, we didn't answer them. Maybe someone else in the. The collaborations did.

[Amanda Jacobson]

I'm sure. Let's end on that. Actually, what is. What is your one piece of advice for somebody who wants to get into podcasting? Because that's the question that we always get as podcasters. And I'm not saying we tell them, how do you start a podcast?

[Charlie Worrell]

I'm saying.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Right, yeah. What do you typically say? And I know what I.

[Josh Hallmark]

Typically say. Well, I say don't. But like, yeah, the better advice would be you have to be disciplined, have patience, practice self care if it's true crime, and engage with the community authentically. We see a lot of people who, like, engage for the sake of, like, networking. And, like, people see right through that. You have to.

[Charlie Worrell]

Be authentic. Yeah. Well, I'll say. Going along with the lines of me being frugal and cheap, the thing I always tell people is do not invest in a community expensive stuff until you know this is what you want to do. Because, like, any hobby, like, you can have a knitting needles and yarn in the back of your closet that cost you $10, but if you're going to go spend 300 on a mic, you're going to spend however much on editing software there's free stuff to use. Do everything as cheaply as possible till you figure out if you even want to do this, because it's a lot more work than you think. Even sitting down and talking. At the end of this, Josh is going to go and spend a couple hours.

[Josh Hallmark]

Editing it. Oh, that's cute that you think that. I'm the laziest editor in.

[Amanda Jacobson]

The world. I love that.

[Charlie Worrell]

For you. So all our mouth noises will still be in there, but, you know, my nose multiple times, every sip of coffee, everyone gets to hear it. But it's just. It's more work than you think it is. So don't invest too much money into it until you know it's what you want to.

[Josh Hallmark]

Keep doing. And with that said, I was at like, 25 million down downloads and still using a $75 mic. I didn't upgrade until, like, two.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Years ago. Yeah, we now have the Official microphones of Dr. Frazier Crane. It was years before we updated. Oh, yeah, years. I agree with everything that you said. I would just add that. Don't go into podcasting because you want it to be a job that generates revenue.

[Josh Hallmark]

For you. Those days.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Are over. Yes, days are over. They've been over for a long time. We're all pinching every penny just to keep.

[Josh Hallmark]

This.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Moving. Yeah. Which, you know, I know I say this all the time, but, like, really, if you don't want to hear ads, then subscribe to people's, you know, paywalled content. Get on the Patreon, get on the super cast, get on the uncorked, whatever. Because, you know, know, it's. It's $5 a month for you to get your typically to get things ad free. That's what a lot of creators offer that. I know we offer that plus additional bonus content, but it's such a small investment for you. But when enough people do it on our end, it literally is the only way that we can keep making content at all because the ad space has changed.

[Charlie Worrell]

So much. Yeah. And we even got started in the heyday where ads were really becoming a thing and it still took a little while to start actually making money. Then we made money for a little bit and now here.

[Josh Hallmark]

We are. I think there's a misconception, like without the paywall, we make about half a cent per download. So when you see someone has like a hundred thousand Downloads, that's.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Like $5,000. Yeah. And there was a time when on a popular show, a mid roll, a one minute mid roll ads spot could cost anywhere between three to six thousand dollars for one spot. Now if you're making five hundred to a thousand for one ad, you're lucky. You're really lucky. You're really lucky. And I know that sounds like a lot of money, but a lot of these shows we've been around for a long time. We have staff, we have health insurance, we have like it's, it's running. It's a small business with a weird smattering of revenue streams that requires constant maintenance interaction. If you're going into podcasting because you are unsatisfied with your professional life and you want to create a professional path for yourself, there was a time when that was really feasible. And I agree that that was around the time when all of us started. And that is just not really the case anymore. So if you're going to start a podcast, make sure it's something you are passionate about and that it's something you're passionate about lending your voice to. Because people can also tell when your listeners will not connect if you are not bringing an authentic passion to the subject matter and whether that's true crime or what Housewives or Grey's Anatomy or whatever, if you're not connecting with whoever is, you know, if you have co hosts, whoever's on your show and then creating that, that point of connection with your listeners. Like people don't listen to whining crime for the crime. We know this. We. I mean, that doesn't mean that we could switch genres on in a heartbeat and keep all of our listeners. I don't think we could do that. The crime is a very compelling, you know, element of the show. But it's like the way that Lucy and I interact with each other, the friendship that we have, that's that point of connection. That's that point of passion and then the opening up of hard conversations that we can have around real things that are happening in the world or have happened in the world is, is that that's something that people can connect to. So if you're not bringing a genuine authenticity and passion to what you're putting out into the world, I don't know what to tell you. It's probably not the right space for you. So a lot of men will approach women podcasters and be like, well, if you can do it, it's like, okay, go for it.

[Josh Hallmark]

I'd love. Have you heard of Dunning.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Krueger girl? So, yeah, don't do.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

It.

[Charlie Worrell]

Y'. All. Yeah, that's.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Our.

[Josh Hallmark]

Answer. Fun. It's a great way to like make community and spend time with something you're interested in. But unless you're already a known entity, there's.

[Charlie Worrell]

Just, it's. Yeah, it's hard to get started. Yeah. When people want to know, how do I get started and get monetized and all of that, I'm like, well, it helps if you started eight.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Years ago. Right. Get a.

[Charlie Worrell]

Time machine. A time machine would be really helpful. I mean, the industry's changed. We're having trouble keeping up with it sometimes. It's just, it's changed a lot. So we really do appreciate the people who give independent podcasts a chance. And don't just go to the latest big name network celebrity or.

[Amanda Jacobson]

The podcast. And there's nothing wrong. Like, every celebrity has a podcast now. And yes, I'm also listening to Good Hang with.

[Charlie Worrell]

Amy Poehler. Yes, she is a very good podcaster. I will say. I, I listened to her. So I was like, okay, some celebrity podcasts are not that great. Hers is incredible. She's very good at what she's doing. But yeah, that's. We're competing for people who have marketing dollars and we're competing in that same space. And so one thing that helps with listeners is when they. You they're in a podcast group and someone asks for a recommendation. Just type our name. Just take your. Your favorite podcast. Just recommend it to people.

[Amanda Jacobson]

That helps. Caleb, Aaron, if you're listening, you are not. Please come on the show. I'm obsessed with you. I listen to so true every week. I love what you're doing in.

[Josh Hallmark]

The space. Well, on that note, happy holidays, everyone. We did.

[Amanda Jacobson]

It again. What do you mean? This is the first time we ever.

[Charlie Worrell]

Recorded this. What an organic conver. It's actually funny. We had a very.

[Josh Hallmark]

Organic conversation. Wildly.

[Charlie Worrell]

Different conversation. Like not at all what we talked about.

[Josh Hallmark]

Last.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Time. No. But that does remind me of a time when I was the one who up and didn't record something. And so. And I had the other recordings. So I actually sat down.

[Josh Hallmark]

And painstakingly.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Oh, God. Layered.

[Charlie Worrell]

Their.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Audio. Yes. And just faked the reaction things that they said. Doing my case again because we could not get a new recording time. And that was hell. I've.

[Josh Hallmark]

Done that. Oh.

[Charlie Worrell]

My God. No, I did that one time and it was the most.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Painful recording. Like it.

[Josh Hallmark]

Took hours. Yeah, that's the other thing for listeners. You hear five minutes and that on our end is two to.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Five hours. It can be. Yeah, it sure.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Can.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Be. Girl. Before you dive.

[Charlie Worrell]

Into podcasting.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, yeah. Hear.

[Josh Hallmark]

Our prayer. It's more work than you think.

[Charlie Worrell]

It is. It.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Is, yes. But we love each and every one of you and do hope that you have an amazing holiday season and that wherever you're. Whoever's feed you're listening to this on, if you haven't come and check out checked out these other shows.

[Josh Hallmark]

Please do.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Yeah, I'm. All of that information will be in the.

[Josh Hallmark]

Show notes. I'm Josh Hallmark with true crime serialized investigation into.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Israel Keys.

[Charlie Worrell]

You're next. Charlie Charlie with crime lines. Different case every week. Get deep, dive into the background. I go into the newspaper archives and pull out the reporting from the time it happened. And we. It's a very comprehensive look, but it's a different case.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Every week. And similarly to that, I'm Amanda 50 of Wine and crime. My co host Lucy is on another one of these trips, True crime conversations. And we are true crime and comedy. We do a different. We do different cases every week under a general theme. So if you're ever curious about feral hogs or cruise ship disappearances.

[Charlie Worrell]

Or South Dakota or South Dakota or.

[Amanda Jacobson]

North Dakota. We were supposed to do North Dakota, but we accidentally did South Dakota. We're human now. That fan picker is getting a double. So yeah, you really don't have to have to dive in. You can, you could scroll through any of our hundreds of episodes and go, oh, that topic looks interesting. And just check.

[Josh Hallmark]

It out. Yeah. And you can't see this at home, but I'm wiggling because I'm about to wet my pants. So I'm gonna.

[Charlie Worrell]

Say goodbye.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Bye, everyone. This is Julian Edelman from.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings, I've got my.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Game day ritual, coffee, lucky socks, and now new morning.

[Dan Morgan]

Uncrustable sandwiches. It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new uncrustables. Bright eyed berry or up and.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Apple flavors. Bright eye berries got a.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Feisty receiver energy up.

[Dan Morgan]

An apple. Your classic do it all.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Tight end, soft, pillowy, packed with protein, and easy enough for Gronk to grab from.

[Dan Morgan]

The freezer. Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the MVP.

[Charlie Worrell]

Of snacks. Your new Sunday kickoff ritual.

[Podcast Host Interviewing Dan Morgan]

Starts here with New Morning Uncrustable sandwiches.

[Amanda Jacobson]

Packed with 12 grams.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Of protein. This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping and this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

The RealReal. I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving. Selling with the RealReal game changer. I earn more. And they.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Do everything. Seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our.

[Christine (RealReal Shopper)]

38 million members and I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the RealReal than.

[RealReal Ad Voice]

Anywhere else. Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal earn more, save time, sell fast. And right now you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal. Com that's.