True Crime Bullsh**: True Crime Conversations – Eric Carter-Landin, Patrick Hinds, & Josh Hallmark

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Josh Hallmark
Guests: Eric Carter-Landin (True Consequences, Advocacy Con), Patrick Hines (True Crime Obsessed)

Episode Overview

This episode of True Crime Bullsh*,* titled "True Crime Conversations," brings together three influential voices in true crime podcasting—Eric Carter-Landin, Patrick Hines, and host Josh Hallmark—for an honest, humorous, and candid roundtable on the true crime genre, advocacy, listener relationships, and the unique challenges and responsibilities of telling real-life stories. They delve into their personal journeys, discuss the ethical balancing act of true crime production, share listener stories (some touching, some hilarious), reflect on media impact, and recommend notable podcasts and cases.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins & Personal Motivation

[02:24–06:22]
Each host shares their "origin story" in true crime podcasting, revealing the deeply personal and sometimes tragic motivations behind their work.

• Eric Carter-Landin:

  • Motivated by the unsolved murder of his brother Jacob 39 years ago.
  • Created True Consequences in 2019 and founded the nonprofit Angels Voices Silence No More.
  • Started Advocacy Con to help families of the missing and murdered.
  • Quote: “Everything I do, everything I have done has been in honor of him and in memory of him.” (02:28 – Eric)

• Patrick Hines:

  • Fell in love with podcasting for creative expression.
  • Partnered with Gillian Pensavalli to create True Crime Obsessed in 2017, focusing on recapping true crime documentaries through an authentic, commentary-driven lens.
  • Quote: “I wanted to make something really nerdy … And when I went to edit the episode, I was like, wow, this is, like, really different.” (03:24 – Patrick)

• Josh Hallmark:

  • Came to podcasting while living in a van, pivoted from music to podcasts.
  • Started with shows on small town America, then dove into the Israel Keyes case with True Crime Bullsh*.*
  • “Even if True Crime Bullsh** no longer exists, I will still be investigating [Israel] Keys probably for the rest of my life.” (05:54 – Josh)

2. Personal Toll & Self-Care in True Crime

[07:17–09:00]
The hosts discuss the mental and emotional challenges of being immersed in true crime—especially for Eric, who is both an advocate and a survivor.

• Eric: Advocates for self-care to counter the emotional heaviness:

  • “You have to rest and you have to take time to cleanse your brain from all of this, like, dark and heavy stuff that we talk about.” (08:22 – Eric)

• Patrick: Addresses the thread of levity as a coping mechanism and clarifies misconceptions about comedy within true crime:

  • “We never really thought of ourselves as funny people...When we were laughing, we were laughing at...how dumb the idiot prosecutor was, or it's really just us sort of like laughing through our rage at how common this is, how badly it can go.” (09:23 – Patrick)

3. Balancing Comedy, Advocacy, and Respect

[09:06–15:26]
They explore how true crime podcasts can be insightful, funny, and respectful—highlighting shows like Wine & Crime and the importance of honoring victims.

• Patrick: On evolving away from labeling TCO as a “comedy” podcast:

  • “It was disingenuous to what we were actually trying to do… the most important thing to us was to honor the victims of the storytelling.” (12:03 – Patrick)

• Eric: Adds that Wine & Crime does advocacy and humor exceptionally:

  • “They really reach out and help people in the community, people that need help, and...make Christmas happen for families that can't afford. Just amazing women.” (13:34 – Eric)

4. Ethics, Trauma, and the True Crime Machine

[13:47–16:41]
The group reflects on the industry’s changing ethical landscape, mental health resources for victims’ families, and their own struggles reconciling journalism with empathy.

• Patrick: On the emergence of trauma-informed practices:

  • “I think one of the turns that we're seeing … is the need for mental health services for people who participate in these kinds of documentaries...we’re starting to really understand and take care of the people who participate and tell their stories, which is crucial.” (14:18 – Patrick)

• Josh: Describes the responsibility and hesitation in reaching out to victims’ families:

  • “There are people I want to call and should have called years ago, but I’m like, I don’t want to traumatize them by calling.” (16:13 – Josh)

5. Dark Humor as a Coping Mechanism

[16:49–17:59]
The hosts admit to having dark senses of humor, often used backstage to deal with the industry’s emotional weight.

• “You have to be able to laugh at some of this stuff, otherwise, like, you'll go fucking crazy.” (16:49 – Josh)

6. Interacting with Listeners: The Good, The Bad, and The Absurd

[20:26–23:42]
From meaningful conversations to unwanted “dick pics,” the hosts share memorable fan encounters and discuss the blurring lines between audience and host.

• Eric:
  • Shares a story of receiving an explicit message from a fan in Italy followed by a nude photo:
    • “It's just absolutely absurd that anybody would think in any kind of realm that that would be okay.” (21:22 – Eric)
• Patrick:
  • On listener engagement at live shows and being open to feedback:
    • “My favorite part of this whole thing is meeting people…I'm always open to any feedback, positive or negative, as long as it is respectful.” (23:58 – Patrick)

7. Handling Criticism & Parasocial Relationships

[26:07–31:59]
Discussion on negative feedback, learning from mistakes, and the complex parasocial relationships created by podcasting.

• Josh:
  • “I hear a lot that I’m not open to feedback, and I’m like, no, I am, as long as it’s respectful.”
  • “These are in many ways parasocial relationships. … They think they know you. … And also, in a lot of cases, they're projecting their shit onto you because they don't actually know who you are.” (28:32–29:14 – Josh)
• Patrick:
  • “I’m just a guy who makes a podcast some people listen to, and I really do want to meet everybody.”
• Eric:
  • Describes the deeper impact of a highly personal case and how public attention—even negative—is valuable for keeping his brother Jacob's story alive:
    • “The fact that people are even thinking about Jacob is amazing because when he died, there was no story, there was no news, there was no newspaper, there was nothing.” (33:07 – Eric)

8. Jacob’s Story: Advocacy in Action

[37:09–42:24]
Eric recounts efforts to seek justice for his brother and how podcasting and listener activism led to major case developments.

• The case: Jacob, Eric’s baby brother, was killed by their mother's boyfriend, who confessed twice but was never prosecuted due to statutory limitations.
• Community mobilization: The “10 Days of Jacob” campaign resulted in the DA handing the case over to the attorney general.
• Frustrations: Ultimately, the case was closed again, despite renewed interest.
• Quote: “People cared and people started to ask what they could do. So we created this 10 days of Jacob campaign where we had people emailing, writing, calling the DA and it was so much. … He emailed me two days into the 10 days of Jacob saying, can you please make this stop? Like, this is too much.” (39:40 – Eric)

9. AdvocacyCon: Supporting Families Beyond the Headlines

[43:02–45:54]
Eric shares the purpose and promise of AdvocacyCon—an event designed to help victims’ families with skills, self-care, and community.

• “Some people are just regular people who happen to have a tragedy that happens. … AdvocacyCon really exists to create a place where families can learn from experts … to interface with resources and organizations that can help them move their cases forward or at least give them some relief.” (43:40 – Eric)

10. Podcast & True Crime Recommendations

[46:14–53:38]
The trio swaps favorite podcast recommendations and discusses new media they've found compelling.

• Patrick: Recommends Who Took Misty Copsey? and Talina Czar.
• Josh: Recommends Blink and Wild Boys.
• Eric: Shares his close personal connection to the Zachariah Jawan Shorty case and its resolution.
• They discuss the ripple effects of podcaster Ladonna Humphrey’s controversies, and the importance of honest, nuanced storytelling.
• Plus a raucous endorsement for The Curse of America’s Next Top Model.

11. Media Pressure and Representation in True Crime

[54:03–55:45]
The emotional and ethical challenges of being under the public and podcasting microscope are discussed, with specific reference to high-profile cases and family involvement.

• Patrick: On “media pressure” and narrative integrity in the Media Pressure podcast about Julie Murray’s family:
  • “It was just so beautifully written from the heart, from the family. It was like, rip your heart out.” (54:20 – Patrick)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Podcast Production Grind:
  “Every five minutes you listen to is like two hours of my life.” (06:33 – Josh)

• On True Crime Comedy/Levity:
  “We’re not making jokes…we’re trying to find levity where we can…it makes it a little bit easier to listen or to learn about these cases.” (11:28 – Patrick)

• On Listener Confrontations:
  “By the way, here’s a picture of my dick.” (21:04 – Eric, retelling a listener DM story)

• On Advocacy & Hope:
  “The fact that Jacob gets to continue, you know, beyond anything that happened to him and really become the face of this movement to change things for families of the missing and murdered is really awesome.” (33:18 – Eric)

• On Balancing Community & Boundary:
  “Sometimes people who have been listening the longest feel like the most aggrieved when you do something that bothers them.” (27:09 – Patrick)

• On Comedy, Gayness & Levity:
  “This is as soon as. Josh, when you proposed this and thank for that, that’s, you know, community building, I think, is everything. … I was like, where’s our true crime gays podcast? We need this true.” (06:47 – Patrick)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introductions and Origin Stories: 02:24–06:22
• The Stress of True Crime & Self-Care: 07:17–09:00
• Ethics and Levity in True Crime: 09:06–15:26
• Listener Interactions & Community: 20:26–23:42
• Handling Criticism and Parasociality: 26:07–31:59
• The Personal Side of Advocacy: 32:29–34:16
• Jacob’s Case and Impact: 37:09–42:24
• Advocacy Con Explained: 43:02–45:54
• Podcast Recommendations: 46:14–53:38
• Media Pressure and Representation: 54:03–55:45

Additional Memorable Moments

• Unfiltered Humor: Numerous references to being "bitchy gay," bar stories, and making community out of shared dark humor.
• Meta Moments: Enthusiastic meta-commentary of their own conversational style and true crime podcasting as a genre.

Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, irreverent, and deeply empathetic—blending gallows humor, sensitivity, activism, and open acknowledgment of the LGBTQ+ perspective. The hosts alternate seamlessly between weighty topics and humor, showing respect for the gravity of the cases while fostering a sense of community for listeners and podcasters alike.

Summary Takeaway

This episode offers a rare inside look at the personal, professional, and emotional realities of true crime podcasting—from advocacy and ethical storytelling to the burdens of production and community engagement. The hosts’ mutual respect and lived experience provide space for vulnerability, learning, and (very gay) laughter. It’s a standout episode for those wanting to better understand the complexities, heart, and humanity behind the true crime genre.