Karina Holmer /// Part 2 /// 938

Summary

True Crime Garage – Karina Holmer /// Part 2 /// 938 (June 24, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In Part 2 of their deep dive into the unsolved 1996 murder of Swedish au pair Karina Holmer, hosts Nic and the Captain continue methodically picking apart the known facts, timelines, and the frustrating lack of resolution in the case. The episode explores reaction in the immediate aftermath of Karina’s death, profiles key persons of interest, unpacks her communications before the crime, and details crucial leads, notable suspects, and investigative hurdles that have left this case cold for 30 years. The hosts bring their classic blend of detailed analysis, sharp commentary, and empathetic storytelling to one of Boston’s most haunting unsolved murders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Immediate Aftermath and Emotional Toll

• Karina’s Death Stunned the Local Au Pair Community

  • About 50 young au pairs held a vigil at the site her remains were found (03:26).
  • The police videotaped and questioned attendees for possible leads.
  • Karina’s body was returned to Sweden—funeral traditions contrasted with U.S. norms, with mourners wearing white and reading her poetry, highlighting her youth and innocence.

• Emotional Impact on the Family She Worked For

  • Hosts discuss the daunting task of telling the children she nannied for that she would not return (06:18).
  • “I couldn’t imagine sitting down with my kids and trying to say, you know, that young woman that you loved a whole lot… She’s not coming back anymore.” – Nic (05:57)
  • The couple’s 6-year-old son asked, “If I prayed some more, will she come back?” (08:17)

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Timeline and Witness Gaps

• The Elusive Timeline
  • Last confirmed sighting: Karina leaves a night out with friends around 1:30 am Friday night/Saturday morning (07:38).
  • 36-hour window between last seen and body discovery leaves much unaccounted for.
  • “That in itself is a big chunk of time that is missing from our timeline here.” – Nic (08:17)
• Hypotheses about Behavior
  • Speculation about Karina possibly making a distress call for help (17:21).
  • Investigation hampered by her small social circle and the transient nature of au pairs’ local connections.

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Scrutiny of the Host Family – Frank Rapp & Susan Nichter

• Suspicious Circumstances Identified
  • Employers contacted police even before Karina was expected home (03:26).
  • They lawyered up quickly, but cooperated in initial questioning (11:08).
  • Alibi: Family or in-laws staying over; attended a movie as a group (18:01).
  • “If it’s only alibi is his wife, I don’t put a lot of weight to that.” – Captain (18:29)
  • Fire in the family’s condo dumpster and a recently acquired transfer station (dump) permit raised concerns of evidence cover-up (12:09).
• Weighing “Innocent” vs. “Suspicious”
  • Frank’s troubled past: arrest for assault, DUI, and restraining order history due to drinking (16:11).
  • “Frank was no saint. He did have a police record.” – Nic (16:09)
  • Ultimately, procedural explanations ("dump permit for recyclables”) and extended family alibis reduced direct suspicion, but hosts remain skeptical of coincidences.

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Karina’s Personal Correspondence: Warnings and Ominous Hints

• Letters Home Turn Ominous
  • Early letters express happiness and an intent to remain in the U.S.; later, tone shifted towards stress and disenchantment (19:07).
  • Heavy cleaning and housework burden described as a source of unhappiness (21:24).
• The Chilling Final Message
  • “Something terrible has happened. I cannot tell you right now what it is, but I will tell you when I get home.” – Karina Holmer, quoted from letter to friend (22:07)
  • Her family and friends unsure of what this “something terrible” meant; speculations range from job dissatisfaction to witnessing or being involved in a threatening situation.
  • Hosts stress that this message feels pivotal: “If you could figure out what that something terrible was, I think you could solve this case.” – Nic (32:40)

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Reviewing Key Suspects and Leads

1. The Boston Police Officer

• Karina Dated a Boston Cop
  • He was working security at Zanzibar, possibly dated Karina; also spent a night with her and friends the week prior (34:45).
  • BPD never publicly named him, nor gave public reasoning for clearing him; hosts express frustration over this (35:28).
  • “If he’s so freaking innocent, then name the dude.” – Nic (35:28)

2. The Homeless Man – Juan Paulo

• Danced with Karina that Night
  • Had an extensive record, prior suspicions in similar crimes.
  • Ruled out due to lack of access to private spaces to commit and conceal a dismemberment (41:47).

3. The Band Guy – John Zwez

• Local musician known for S&M stage acts
  • Lived close to dump site, owned human and animal bones (39:16).
  • No confirmed link to Karina beyond the club; early suspect, faded from investigation.

4. The “Man with the Dog” – Herb Whitten

• Last seen talking to Karina outside Zanzibar at 3 am
  • Came forward voluntarily, had a credible alibi (speeding ticket logged alone with dog) (44:46).
  • Later committed suicide, possibly due to public suspicion (55:56).
  • Hosts speculate on his mental health history and quirks but accept police statement ruling him out.

5. Unknowns in a Silver Mitsubishi

• Eyewitness saw Karina in a car with two men who threatened him
  • Physical description: clean-cut, late 20s/early 30s; never identified by police (49:00).
  • Timing uncertainties leave the sequence ambiguous: possibly conflicting or overlapping timelines with Mr. Whitten.

6. Realtor Perpetrator in Related Crime – Gregory Hummel

• Kidnapped/assaulted a woman from Zanzibar months later
  • Had access to vacant properties and power tools (54:05).
  • Investigated by police but never charged re: Karina’s case.

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Investigative Hurdles & Law Enforcement Commentary

• Privacy and Opportunity
  • “What you need here is a person with access to a power saw and a location to do this in.” – Nic (41:47)
• Search for Crime Scene
  • No confirmed scene, no bottom half of body found.
  • BAU psychological profile: could be a first-timer, but nothing indicates a known serial killer (62:58).
• Disposal Theory
  • Hosts believe the rest of Karina’s remains were likely placed in a dumpster and accidentally not found due to timing/luck (66:54).
  • “If this homeless man was not in there looking for bottles… she was found by happenstance” (67:04).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[The victim] asks his mother if he prayed some more, will she come back.” – Nic, on the impact to the children (08:17)
• “I don’t like that he’s not named. Blue wall be damned. If he’s so freakin’ innocent, then name the dude.” – Nic, discussing the unnamed police officer (35:28)
• “Herb Witten… came forward and contacted police after they announced they were looking for the man with the dog. He says, look, I do this for attention from women.” – Nic (43:24, 44:46)
• “She was wearing silver pleather pants… black boots with silver buckles. That’s a pretty unique outfit.” – Nic, on the impossibility of mistaken identity (49:00)
• “If you could figure out what that something terrible was, I think you could solve this case.” – Nic, on Karina’s ominous letter home (32:40)
• “It was so easy for the killer, in a heavily populated area… And if it wasn’t for this individual in the dumpster, that’s a whole different case. It was so easy for the bastard. And if it was that easy this one time… why not do it again?” – Nic, expressing frustration at the killer’s anonymity (69:09)
• “All men are created equal. Unless you live behind that blue wall.” – Nic, on transparency in suspect identification (68:38)

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Case Theories & Analysis

• Dismemberment for Disposal:
  Both hosts agree dismemberment was likely logistical—not sadistic, allowing for body disposal and complicating investigation.
• No Serial Killer Pattern:
  The crime’s specifics are “atypical for a serial killer”, with no evidence of torture or known sadistic behavior.
• Likely Local and Well-Prepared:
  Killer probably had access (work-related or otherwise) to tools and private, sound-insulated space.
• Missed Opportunities:
  Several suspects were plausible but either ruled out for lack of evidence or never publicly named/fully vetted in the court of public opinion.
• Witness Reliability Issues:
  Late-night drinking and social chaos introduce uncertainty to all reported sightings and identifications.
• Host Frustration:
  Both hosts lament that so many circumstances—a lucky trash picker, ambiguous timelines, frustrating alibis—conspired to make the case unsolved.

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Episode Timeline – Important Segments

• 03:26 – Community vigil and family impact
• 06:18 – Children’s response / emotional toll
• 09:19 – Rationale for police searches of host family property
• 15:26 – Transfer station permit, dumpster fire speculation
• 16:11 – Frank Rapp’s criminal past and family dynamics
• 22:07 – "Something terrible has happened" letter discussion
• 30:00 – Recap of Karina’s personal life challenges in the U.S.
• 34:45 – Introduction of the unnamed Boston police officer as a suspect
• 39:16 – The band guy/radical local weirdo
• 41:47 – Theory on practical motive for dismemberment
• 43:24/44:46 – The man with the dog (Herb Whitten) and timeline breakdown
• 49:00 – Eyewitness report of Karina in a silver Mitsubishi
• 54:05 – The realtor/kidnapper lead
• 62:58 – FBI BAU profile and case review
• 66:54 – Concluding theory: missed recovery of remains
• 69:09 – Host frustration over the case’s “easy anonymity”
• 71:34 – Recommendations & closing notes

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Closing Thoughts

The episode concludes on a somber note, with Nic and the Captain revisiting the pain of the 30-year anniversary of Karina’s murder and the dismay of a killer who may have gotten away by sheer luck and civic anonymity. They highlight parallels to other cases, recommend related episodes and the DNA ID podcast, and reiterate their deep frustration—not at police action, but at the cruel randomness that allowed the case to go unsolved.

Hosts’ Final Reflections:

• Boston PD put in serious investigative work; failures were due to timing, location, and “luck” rather than negligence.
• “It was so easy for the bastard… Why not do it again?” – Nic (69:09)
• Both urge for the anonymized suspects (such as the Boston cop) to be named or cleared transparently.

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Recommendations from the Hosts

• DNA ID Podcast by Jessica Bettencourt (praised for great research, especially on Massachusetts cases)
• Previous True Crime Garage coverage: Rashawn Brazell (Episodes 741, 742, 743)

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Summary

This episode offers a thorough, empathetic, and incisive review of the Karina Holmer case’s dead ends, investigative dilemmas, and the many “close but not quite” suspects. Listeners are left with a clear understanding of why this is one of Boston’s most haunted unsolved murders, what stands between investigators and a resolution, and a palpable sense of the injustice of crimes that almost—but not quite—get solved.

Transcript

[Nick]

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[Captain]

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[Nick]

Welcome to True Crime Garage wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me, as always, is a man who knows that True Crime Garage is powered hour packed with 60 grams of protein and no artificial colors or flavors. Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain and it's full of weeds.

[Captain]

It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend

[Nick]

today. We are still flying high. My friends in the old garage ship sipping on Cloud Machine from the fine folks at Treehouse. Cloud Machine is a rendition of Juice Machine but featuring newly selected lots of New Zealand hops with notes of sweet peach, grapefruit, honey dew, melon and white grape popping in your glass. These juicy hop notes float over a pillowy soft body with an exceptionally creamy finish. Garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good great garage friends. First up at Cheers to Caroline in

[Captain]

Pittsburgh and a big tall cans in there goes out to Jennifer G and Bowling Green, Kentucky.

[Nick]

And last but certainly not least, we have a cheers to Anne Paul in Odenton, Maryland. Everyone we just mentioned went to truecrimegarage.com helped us fill up the old fridge for this week's set of shows and for that we thank you.

[Captain]

Yeah BW Double R U N Beer run. Check out our merch [e-mail] you can support the show and get something in return. And we'll thank you forever. And that's enough of the business.

[Nick]

All right, everybody, gather round. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. After Karina's murder, about 50 young au pairs met at the Boston Public Garden to hold a vigil in her honor. They walked in a somber procession along Boylston street and Ipswich street in the Fenway, where they stuck roses in the chain link fence near the dumpster where she had been found. Police were in attendance, videotaping the entire thing and questioning some of the girls again during this vigil. Meanwhile, Karina's body was shipped home to Sweden for burial. 100 people attended her funeral. Unlike funerals here in the U.S. attendees wore white and lined the church with wild flowers. And a poem was that was written by Karina was read. And a singer performed Bette Midler's the Rose during the services. Frank Rapp and Susan Nichter were the couple that she was working for. They. We have not got to them since we've discovered Korina's body here. They contacted police on Sunday when they heard the news of a dead young woman found in the dumpster. Now, I think very rightfully so. Here, Captain. Police found this to be quite weird. Korina was not supposed to be dropped back off at their condo in Dover until late that Sunday night. So as far as they were concerned or knew, Karina was not missing yet. When Frank contacted the police, of course they're going to interview Frank and Susan, the couple seemed just as stunned as everyone else about what had happened to their nanny. It's. Look, and here's the tough part. Frank and Susan, I don't know these people, but the. The part that's tough for me is what we do know and understand and recognize here in this situation is there was a bond that was already formed between these two very young kids and Korina, who was obviously very good at taking care of these kids, hanging out with them, being their friend, being their nanny, being their supervisor, all of that, their caretaker. I couldn't imagine sitting down with my kids and trying to say, you know, that young woman that you loved a whole lot, that. That you really thought was great, that's been here every day for the past couple months. She. She's not coming back anymore.

[Captain]

Yeah, she was murdered and dismembered. I mean, that's.

[Nick]

That part you're leaving out, right? First grade and younger. I'm probably leaving that part out.

[Captain]

Hey, you can parent the way you want to. I'LL parent the way I want to. But to defend the family a little bit, we have she goes missing on Friday, but it's very late. So it's late, it's early morning on Saturday at this point. But there's a community of nannies. And so is it possible they hear any kind of rumblings of her not being with her friend group on Saturday or early Sunday before the body is discovered?

[Nick]

Well, see, I think you're hitting on something that's really key here and does separate this from other cases that we've reviewed in some respects, and that is we have some of these potential witnesses who may or may not have seen her. What we should be referring to here in this case is time of last contact. Right. Time of last confirmation of when she was fine, she was alive and well. She might have been intoxicated, might have been sleepy, might have been head down on the table at the bar.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

But the time of last contact for the people that knew her best, the people that she went out with, seems to be that 1:30 ish am after going out that Friday night. And so we don't know when she was killed. We can, we can come up with some ideas here. We know when she was found, but there's a lot of time that's unaccounted for. Was she alive during that time? It's very hard to say. So it's, that's a. We're, we're really missing. While it's only about 36 hours between time of last contact and when she is found in the dumpster.

[Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

Who knows? That's. That in itself is a big chunk of time that is missing from our timeline here. And we can only theorize and speculate to fill in that big blank there. I'll move off of this here because this, you know, there are a lot of sad parts to this story. This is certainly one of them. When the children were told that Korina was not coming back, will not be taking care of them anymore. The son, who was six years old at the time, asked his mother if he prayed some more, will she come back. So I think that shows what this young woman meant to these, these kids who she was in charge and tasked with taking care of, which is not an easy job. Right. Anybody that has little kids or takes care of little kids knows that at times it can be very difficult. And it's clear how much they liked her in the short time that they had together.

[Captain]

Yeah. But again, her close social circle in America is small, so it's not unreasonable to, if you're the detectives, to go, hey, we need to search the family's property. We need to search the apartment. We again, we don't have any ear witnesses or eyewitnesses to prove that she made it back Saturday morning, but maybe she did. So we need to search these places. And how cooperative is this family with those searches and with the interrogations or. Or let's not even say interrogation, but questioning. And also, hey, are you guys willing to take a lie detector test, start there and then move on with the investigation?

[Nick]

Well, and that's the thing here too, because we. So we will have a lot of. Spoiler alert. We're going to have a lot of persons of interest to get to here in this week's true crime story. But obviously, for obvious reasons, police would be very suspicious of Frank Wrapp. And so while we cannot say with 100% certainty that she never made it back to the apartment that night, if I would say with 99% certainty, they seem to believe that. But even that 1% leaves the door open, which would mean that not just because of the apartment, but because of other reasons, Frank Rapp would have easy access to Karina and she would have, or we would believe that she would trust him. And we do know that they contacted police before it was announced who the victim was. The family does lawyer up on that Sunday, but this is after initial questioning. So they did. They did talk to Frank and Susan before they lawyer up.

[Captain]

Also. Lawyering up doesn't mean cutting off contact with law enforcement.

[Nick]

No, because they. He sat down. So he's 43 years old at this time. He and Susan both sit down multiple times for multiple rounds of questioning. There is an attorney present during these sessions, though the investigators suspicions were heightened because on Monday night, there was a fire in the dumpster outside the condo where the. Where Frank Rappin Susan lived. So their condo they're living in, it's the size of a house. Okay. It's not a teeny tiny condo. Frank and Susan lived on Tisdale Drive in Dover. And police, of course, would find this extremely hanky. Sorry. The whole investigation centers around a dumpster at this time. Now we're talking about a second dumpster. And there's a fire in this one outside of their condo. They searched the dumpster, grabbed a bunch of charred clothing to see if it was possibly connected to the murder. Long story short, it was not. Police also spent six hours searching a transfer station or dump near the Dover condo. Apparently, Frank had obtained his first ever permit for the transfer station on the day before Karina's upper half was found. And of course, police are not going

[Captain]

to let this suspicious is.

[Nick]

Yeah.

[Captain]

Oh my gosh.

[Nick]

One thing that makes the couple or Frank seem to be unlikely, you know, we pointed to some reasons why they would be likely suspects. There are some reasons to point that evidence to suggest that they weren't involved at all. I don't like this airtight alibi business here. It stated that Frank has an airtight alibi. I've seen this reported multiple ways, but it's a very. It's very similar, no matter which way you. You look at it at it. So I didn't do too much digging on this, but they had family, extended family, staying with them that weekend. Some reports state that it was Susan's parents and others report that it was Frank's parents. So depending on who you ask, they had in laws staying that weekend, which of course would complicate things. And whoever those folks were that were staying with them say that the couple was with them the entire weekend. Now, Susan would later tell the media that the permit that they got for the dump was for recyclables. And the dumpster fire and the transfer station permit, she says, are just a weird coincidence. I don't. I don't know that we know or that anyone knows the cause of the dumpster fire. The recyclables in the permit for the dump, from my understanding, it has to do with. There was something going on locally that they weren't. There was a problem either with collection at that time. I mean, sometimes that can be due to construction or what have you. That is their explanation as to why they had a permit for the day before. I would like to figure out here because as someone who has filed for multiple permits in different cities for different reasons in my lifetime, I would like to know how quickly the permit can be issued. Because oftentimes when I used to, when I was in, in property management and security and things of that nature, there at times there would be requirements for me to get certain permits for certain work to be done. And those you often had to get well in advance. It's not like you. Not like you kill somebody on a Friday and get the. And go get the permit on a Saturday for that Saturday. I mean, we're talking sometime. Sometimes this can be weeks. And I've. I've also had other situations where it's. It's 24 hours. Usually the person that's taking the information and the person you're submitting the information to is not the Person who is. Has the authority to issue a permit.

[Captain]

Yeah, I think that makes more sense if it's some kind of construction work. But this is just a permit to drop your recyclables off at the dump.

[Nick]

That's what Susan has stated. Correct. But again, we, we don't know how. How things operate there. And for this particular permit, I will tell you this, Captain. The agencies that offer said permits, they're not open on Saturdays. So my guess would be that this permit request was. Was taken in advance of that Saturday. That to me would be an indicator that if Frank and or Susan were guilty of this, that there was a lot of planning that went into it.

[Captain]

Yeah, premeditation.

[Nick]

Frank was no saint. He did have a police record. He had a. An assault and battery on his. Who would be later be his wife. Violation of a restraining order that Susan had obtained against him at one time. And apparently at some point in their relationship they went through a good deal of problems. And it seemed to all stem from Frank's drinking. He had a drinking problem at one time. And the restraining order was issued by. Requested by Susan and was obtained against him. And this but with a stipulation of he. He can't come near me until he goes into detox. So from my understanding, he did do this detox at some point and was clean. Or at least they were. I mean, they were living a much different life obviously at the time of Karina's death than they were when this went down. So this goes down in 91, so it's five years prior. And around that time too, he also had a omvi.

[Captain]

Yeah, but if I'm a detective, I want the phone records. Is it possible that she called one of them for a ride again? Hasn't been in the city that long. She spends most of the time with the family at the family house. Maybe she doesn't know. The area around the apartment makes a phone call to one of the only people she knows. Hey, I'm lost. Can somebody come pick me up? And if we can prove that, you know, if they got any cause in the early morning on Saturday that you can't identify the caller or who would call from that number, that could be some point of evidence.

[Nick]

Yeah, according to the family, they. On that Friday night, that was. That Friday was the last day of school. So they took the kids to McDonald's and then to a drive in movie showing the Hunchback of Notre Dame and they all went home and went to bed. So I guess we have to assume that Susan told the police that Frank did not leave the house in Dover that night and that they verified that the movie was indeed playing.

[Captain]

If it's only Alibi, it's his wife. I don't put a lot of weight to that. Just trying to put myself in the shoes of the detective.

[Nick]

One thing that I find particularly interesting leading up to the murder is some communication that Karina had with folks back home. You know, she stayed in very good contact with her family and with people that she knew back in her little village in Sweden. Double checking my notes here because this to me is something that we have to get 100 right on our reporting with this.

[Captain]

The rest we can get 50. 50.

[Nick]

Well, no, but, but there are quotes that need to be made here because I want these to be the words of the people reporting this and Karina's words, not mine. I believe that there's a lot of power in the words that are chosen to be used and words that, that. That are used in these scenarios. And so I want to make sure that I absolutely have it correct. As said, Karina wrote regular letters home to her parents, to her friends as well, telling them how much she was enjoying life in Massachusetts. Her friend, Charlotte Sandberg, remember, she's one that we've already talked about who had talked to the Boston Herald. She would tell the Boston Herald that she. That she, Karina, seemed to be pleased with the city of Boston and she had made some acquaintances with other nannies in the area. She said that Korina had not been. Had not experienced any serious problems of any kind and that she had felt safe. But before Karina's death, her letters to her parents and her friends were described to shift a bit a little more somber. They say that she was expressing an interest in cutting short this au pair commitment and returning to Sweden earlier than what was originally scheduled.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

So a letter to one of her Swedish friends indicated that she was disenchanted with being an au pair. Her friend stated that, look, Karina enjoyed the childcare of it. She seemed to enjoy certain aspects of the job. But she said that there were a couple of things that she was not liking. One, she says that she was stressed all the time, right. And it. The job was not exactly what she thought it would be. She went, she would complain regularly about the amount of cleaning and housework that was involved. She did not think that it would require this much cleaning and physical labor. And that part of the job she did not like. And it sounds like it was wearing on her.

[Captain]

Well, also, every family is going to be different so you have a friend that does the same job, but for a different family. There's a. There could be a whole different dynamic. Or what is expected from that nanny? Are they expected to clean? And also, when you have two young children, guess what? There's messes all the time. And so is it a situation where the parents get home and they take over, or is it a parent? Is it a situation where the parents get home and they do nothing? They're not cleaning. They're not focusing on their kids. They're just now focusing on themselves, just with. Inside their home. And that would get taxing on any. On anybody.

[Nick]

And this is the part that I wanted to get word for word, verbatim correct here, Captain. And so this is another letter that she sent to a friend. This friend's name. Forgive me, friend here, if I get the name wrong. I'm doing my best. I'm just a guy in a garage. Eureka, I believe is her name, or how I'm choosing to say it here. Her friend says that a letter sent to her from Karina said, quote, something terrible has happened. I cannot tell you right now what it is, but I will tell you when I get home, end quote. So something terrible has happened. Karina did not describe what it was said that she would tell her friend about it when she got home. We know that unfortunately, she did not get that opportunity.

[Captain]

Well, it also sounds like she's implying that she's coming home early.

[Nick]

Yeah. Her family said that she was hinting at the idea of returning sooner than what was originally scheduled. When asked to elaborate on this something terrible, her sister, Johanna, Karina's sister, said that she did not know what the, quote, something terrible was. And she did tell the Associated Press that Karina had decided to come home earlier because she wanted to go somewhere else to travel into work. I'm guessing based off of everything that we've reviewed, that if Korina felt this way and if she was coming home earlier, as said by her family, that she did not let her employers know that she was unhappy. Because, remember, their statements and their quotes were that everything had been going well and the kids really took to Karina.

[Captain]

Yeah. Or that's their version of the story to cover up what's really happening.

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[Captain]

All right, we are back. Cheers mates. Cheers to you Colonel.

[Nick]

Cheers to you Captain. Like we talked about with Karina, her personal life gets very complicated to look at as far as an investigator goes because she wasn't here for very long leading up to this murder. And so we're going to start our investigation at Zanzibar, where we know she was at night at the Mercury Bar, where we know she was that night.

[Captain]

Well, just a quick commentary on her notes. Home one she's not gone that long, but it could be a sign of just being homesick. She also could have came to the realization that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Again, this is not her passion. She went to school for a passion. She's doing a job that's just basically to get her foot in the door as far as the American workforce and the American dream. So there's all these things that could have came to head where she just, like, this is not the job I wanted. I'm not following my passion. Hey, maybe my home life wasn't so bad. Maybe this is not for me. That could have nothing to do with the actual interaction with the, the children or the family that she's working for.

[Nick]

Yes, absolutely. I think that's the first thing your mind jumps to because that's one anchor point here in this story. But it doesn't have to mean that something terrible happened at work or with the family that she works for.

[Captain]

Well, the terrible thing that could have happened could have just been as simple as, I made a terrible mistake. I thought I went here for this opportunity. I thought it was going to be one way. It turns out it's not for me, that can feel terrible for some people.

[Nick]

That's not how I read her, her statement or the quote. Not at all. It's. I think that, that there's some truth to what you're saying. But I, I mean, clearly, because we know that she. We have more than one person saying, look, she's expressed an interest in returning home sooner rather than later. However, this, something terrible, to me, I think, is a big deal. I think it's absolutely. I think it's the. Could be the center of this event. If you could figure out what that something terrible was, I think you could solve this case. Because whatever it was, she did not write specifically what it was. She did not want that on paper. She didn't want that left open to interpretation. She wanted to tell her friend face to face what it was at a later date.

[Captain]

No, I was just given the possibility, but I'm with you. I think this is a bigger deal.

[Nick]

It sounds like they were very easily able to review Korina's correspondence with her family and her friends back in Sweden. So this is a great way to compile a list of everyone that she interacted with here in Massachusetts or here in the states, I should say. We're not in Massachusetts. You're going to start your process of interviewing and vetting these individuals. Now. This will be extremely difficult. I know I keep kind of circling around that quite a bit. So, look, one law enforcement source put it this way. Her lifestyle makes it very difficult to narrow down who she was with that night and who she left with, if anybody. This was a very loose running crowd. This law enforcement officer described Karina and her friends as, quote, party animals. Everybody's living for the weekend. I get it in a spec. Can you Imagine if you're on call basically 247 during the week, and all the people you seem to hang out with during the weekend are on call as well. When you get the chance to let loose and cut loose, you do. I'm guessing, based off of this description of that was their findings. Now, I said we have several persons of. Of interest. I don't know that any. I don't know that we can categorize all of these individuals as such. But there are people that have, by name or description, made their way into the public record. And so let's start off with the. The police officer. Okay. Detectives digging into Korrina's personal life learned with great interest that she, at some point during her short time here, had dated a Boston cop. He has not ever been publicly named, and it is not clear whether they were dating at the time of the murder or not, but the statement is that she dated a Boston cop at some point. There is a report of Karina and another nanny slash friend who had spent the night with two Boston police officers at the West Roxbury home of one of the officers. This would have been a week, approximately one week before the murder. The one who dated Karina was interviewed. He met Karina when he was working security detail at Zanzibar. Boston Police Department said that he was not a suspect, but we don't know why or why not. And. And we also don't know why they chose not to name him.

[Captain]

Because he's one of their own.

[Nick]

Yeah, that's. That's your obvious reason. But I mean, it could. It could go beyond that. I mean, was he. Was he married?

[Captain]

Well, if he is married, there's more of a motivation. Right?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Nick]

I mean, without him being named, we don't know anything about this individual other than he spent a night with her. They may have dated and he worked at one time as a Boston police officer. I don't like that he's not named. Blue wall be damned. Whatever. I back the blue more than most. So also. But I'll call it like it is. I don't like this. Name the guy if he's so. If he's so freaking innocent, then name the dude. Also, I want to know the timing of. When does this statement of something terrible happen? When what we don't. What we don't have is the timing of when that statement is delivered. Now, I understand that not everything is a domino, right? Something terrible happens, and then I immediately report it in the vague nature to my friend the next day. I understand that that doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot. Something terrible could have happened. And then a month later, I decide to express that to somebody. But there, this short time that she's here, Captain, there are blank spots in this timeline that make it difficult to really analyze this thing beyond the folks that had the opportunity to investigate the case. We had the one statement of that she was dancing with a homeless guy. Big city cops, they're usually pretty dialed into the local characters, and it appears that Boston PD is no different. So they quickly figured out who this homeless guy was that was dancing with Karina. Or someone that persons believe to be Karina. His name was Juan Paulo. He had an extensive arrest record, 42 of them since 1985. And in fact, he had been questioned in a strangulation murder case in 1995. So this would be the year before Karina was killed. This was the murder of Evelyn Alvarez in Plymouth County. She had been found next to a dumpster behind a bowling alley in Lakeville. And from what I can see here, from our view in the garage, it appears that that homicide remains in the unsolved stack. He did have direct ties to that victim. Juan was her ex. It seems like he was alibi in that scenario. This. According to Plymouth county officials, he had also been a suspect in another assault case or in a assault case regarding a woman in Jamaica Plain. Juan was questioned extensively in Karina slaying, but he did not have access to a location. That's the key here, right? He's homeless. It would be logical to believe that he does not have access to a location where he could have the privacy necessary to hold someone captive, murder them, and dismember their body. It sounds like he was eventually ruled out. Again, we normally don't get a great explanation why individuals do get ruled out. We have the band guy. Oh, the.

[Captain]

The old band guy?

[Nick]

Yes. So this individual seems like a promising lead. He was a local rock band front guy. Front man for a local rock band. His name is John Zwez. His name came up in two different aspects of the investigation. He lived within two blocks of the dumpster where Korina was found. He was also a regular at Zanzibar and had even included the club in his song lyrics. John had some disturbing characteristics. He claimed to have a large collection of human and animal bones.

[Captain]

That's strange.

[Nick]

His band Sleep Chamber openly included S and M themes and play acting during their gigs. It sounds like he had a heroin habit. Folks that knew him say that he had become increasingly erratic and behaving more strange and appear to Be on a downward spiral. Some wonder if that could have culminated in a murder.

[Captain]

Yeah, more murder. Or like detectives said, there could be a situation. She's partying, he's partying. They decide to keep the party going. It goes from drinks to drugs to initially a sexual encounter. That's a sexual encounter that both parties are. Are fine with. And they're, like I said, keeping the party going. And then because of the drugs or because of whatever reason, she dies in the act.

[Nick]

Yeah. So you have to look at this guy, but the problem with him in regard to the other individuals that are named or described as persons of interest is they find no connection between the victim and John other than the bar. Yeah. They both frequented the. The same. The same location. Zanzibar.

[Captain]

Right. But do we have any eyewitnesses that put him at the bar that night?

[Nick]

No. And it seems to me like, because he was. He was known there, and he was known as the weird guy that. That's. That's why he was looked at. I can't say this with 100 certainty, but it seems like they did search his apartment. I don't know on what timeline that was, but what I do know is that his name appeared early on in the investigation, and then it really faded into the background as this investigation plowed on. So we don't have any statement like he was cleared or anything of that nature.

[Captain]

Yeah, but again, like you were stating, when somebody's saying, well, I got these human bones and animal bones and stuff like that, people are looking at this dismemberment like this sadistic, monstrous serial killer, where, like you said, it could just be as simple as it's necessary to transport or dispose of the body. It could. It could not be some killer's fetish.

[Nick]

Absolutely. It could be just a means to an end, something that they decided in that moment that they had to do for self preservation. Really, what you need here is a person with access to a power saw and a location to do this in. And I think that that's probably why they moved on from the. The homeless guy who had a lot of priors.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And had been suspected, never convicted, never charged with, but suspected of other violent activities and assaults.

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Herb Whitten. Herb Whitten.

[Nick]

Police believe that they found the man who was the, quote, older man that Karina was seen with on the night she vanished. This man was seen by several people talking to Karina on the night she was killed. Video surveillance footage outside Zanzibar captured Karina near a burly man with a dog and A male witness told police he saw Karina outside Zanzibar around 3am on Saturday morning. She was petting a dog owned by a 40ish aged muscular man who was holding the leash. Karina told him that her friends had left the bar without her. The witness heard the man offer Karina a ride home, but did not know whether she actually accepted this ride or not. This man was Herb Witten. He came forward and contacted police after they announced that they were looking for the man with the dog. He lived quite a ways away in Andover.

[Captain]

But we also have eyewitnesses that possibly saw her after this interaction, right?

[Nick]

Possibly, yes.

[Captain]

Yes. And so, but you go, if he took her, doesn't matter how far he lives away, it's possible that he takes her back home, does whatever he's going to do and then returns the body to be closer to the bars that she was seen at that night.

[Nick]

Yes, I would put that at genius level for, for this type of individual if that was in fact what happened. So look, he, he contacts the police, he hears they're looking for the man with the dog. He says, look, I'm the man with the dog. I, I regularly drive into, he lives in Andover, a Boston suburb. He says, I regularly drive into the city and I walk my large white dog and I wear a Superman shirt and I put, I put a Superman shirt on the dog as well. And he says, I typically do this around late at night on the weekends. I mean, he's very open with police. He says, look, the drunk women go crazy over the dog and they, they, they approach me so they can pet the dog. They talk to me about the dog and I ask him if they want to go somewhere and have a drink or if they want to hang out. And he goes, oftentimes they do. And that's why I do this. Yeah, it works is what he says.

[Captain]

Yeah, but it, it, so he's not just taking the dog for a walk. He, he's using the dog as, as bait, essentially.

[Nick]

So, but, or an icebreaker. You could look at it either way.

[Captain]

I would say, okay, he came forward. So by doing so is he, then he's opening himself up for questioning. Open, opening himself up for us to understand more about this individual, where he lives and then possibly that could even lead to a search. And so that's pretty ballsy. If, if, if he is the killer. This guy is pretty ballsy.

[Nick]

Yeah, that, that's one of those things that it's, you go, well he, he can't be. The guy probably isn't the guy because he identified himself. Unless he had reason to believe that somebody else could identify him.

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He.

[Nick]

He is saying that he regularly did

[Captain]

this and if he regularly wears a Superman shirt, he's probably easy to identify.

[Nick]

Yeah, and he said that that was part of the, you know, that was part of the norm for him. Now look, so let's say he's innocent. He gets lucky that night, in my opinion, because he got a speeding ticket on his way home from downtown that night to Andover. And the timing of the ticket with the notes that he was alone in his car except for the dog. If all of that is 1000% accurate, then he, he wasn't transporting Karina back

[Captain]

to his house unless she was in the trunk.

[Nick]

Several media outlets reported that the police had interviewed a young male who had come with Karina who went along with Karina and her friends to Club Zanzibar that night. He was the boyfriend of one of the other young women in the group. He had a disturbing story to tell. He said that he was outside of the club around 2:30am and he and his girlfriend were getting into his car to go home. He says he saw Karina sitting in a silver Mitsubishi vehicle with two men. He says that he addressed her through the window telling her, let's go, you can come with us. And says that at this one of the men in the car told him to get away from the car. You little blank or I will crush your blank head. He did not.

[Captain]

Seems like a stand up guy.

[Nick]

Spoiler alert. He did not use the word blank on either of those occasions.

[Captain]

Be funny if he did though.

[Nick]

The young man and his girlfriend left and said that they had no idea what happened to Karina after that. What's missing from the story with the guy with the dog was like, I think that there's still reason to speculate. Was that Karina talking to him? It seems like they've all but absolutely confirmed that it was. What was he stating? I mean, he, he would have been the, the far more sober of the two. What was he stating? That his interaction was with Korina if he did in fact talk to Karina? Because if you're following the timeline, this, this guy who's with his girlfriend, who's friends with Karina, he would have known Karina. He says that he sees her in the Mitsubishi at 2:30am or approximately at 2:30am the male witness who does not know Karina, who says that they saw her talking to a man with a dog that's reported to be around 3am and remember they, they use some surveillance footage to, to confirm this. So I want to know these, these time, these markers on our timeline are obviously not etched in stone and not 100% here. But if, if this took place in, in time as it's being reported here in the garage, then this means she got out of that Mitsubishi that the two men were sitting in, then hung out with the dude with the dog.

[Captain]

And then also, is there any surveillance that confirms any of that? And do they have the information of that car that she was seen in? Do they have the license plate? Have they been able to question those individuals?

[Nick]

One thing that makes this a little more interesting with the, with Mitsubishi car is that the girlfriend that was with the guy who says he saw Karina in the Mitsubishi, she tells that she remembered two men in their late 20s or early 30s dancing and drinking with Karina at Zanzibar that same night. So this would have been earlier. She described those men as dressed well and clean cut. But she was clear in her statement saying, I don't know if these were the same two guys that were in the Mitsubishi or not, because when he saw this go down, I was already in my boyfriend's car waiting on him. So she did not witness Karina in the Mitsubishi. Karina was wearing silver pleather pants that night and a glittery silver sweater and black ankle boots with silver buckles. And to me, that's a pretty unique outfit.

[Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And that's why with all of these potential witnesses, my first question would be what? I know you're here trying to help. I'm ready to take your statement. What was the individual wearing that you saw that night? Yeah, because I think silver is going to stand out. All the silver and glitter and all that should stand out and set her apart from not everyone, but most, as far as we know. Man, the, these guys in the Mitsubishi, if they had anything to do with this at all, they've never been identified.

[Captain]

The other problem too is when you're drunk and you're hanging out with people, there's been plenty of times that I'd be finishing up a gig and normally the band stops at 2 by 2:15, 2:30, I might be able to be hit in the road if I'm, if I'm focused. But if you get stopped talking to somebody, next thing you know, by the time you get in your car, it's an hour and a half, two hours later, and you're like, where did that time go?

[Nick]

Yeah, and, and I think that's part of it too. And that's why the timeline is. Can be a little wonky when you look at this thing. And the other thing, too, is, is how many times have you been at a party or a bar or. Or let's say a congested area late at night, you got a couple beers in you. And. And whether it's the beers or whether it's the perception or both, have you thought that you saw somebody that you knew across the way? Usually I'll try to find the person just to go over and say hello. And then sometimes I get closer and realize, oh, that is that person. I do not know them. No, they're. They're not who I thought they were. They look somewhat similar. But what's interesting. Look, I get it that a lot of these encounters are. Are close encounters. You know, if I were somewhere and somebody goes missing or something, God forbid, something terrible happens to somebody that I know, and I had seen them from afar, but it was actually somebody else, you know, I could be a bad witness. They're just trying to help.

[Jessica Bettencourt]

Yeah.

[Captain]

No, and I think the other thing here, too, with this case, the brutality of. Again, it makes you question what kind of monster are we dealing with? And I. And I'm not leaning one way or the other, but I think your thoughts on the dismemberment are. Are pretty spot on. And then there's all these rabbit holes. Okay, These two guys in the car, the guy with the dog. Oh, did she go and did she end up in a taxi cab somewhere? This homeless guy. Well, look at the family. I guarantee you law enforcement knows a lot more. And then that makes me question, why haven't they released more?

[Nick]

Yeah. What I see here from afar, Captain, is Boston PD Doing a lot of work. They've put in a lot of effort on this case. They seem to be looking at everybody and following every potential lead. We have another individual. This oftentimes when we talk about realtors, we're talking about them as playing the role of the victim in the true crime story. Here we have where this realtor is, the perpetrator or a perpetrator and another crime. So this was another kidnapping. This took place in. Well, we say another kidnapping, but this was a kidnapping that took place in December of 1993. 6. So a young woman had been kidnapped and assaulted after being at Zanzibar. And as the story goes, she apparently met her assailant at the club. He offered her a ride home. Instead, he took her to an apartment. Not his. An apartment that he maintained in Roxbury. The victim says that he dragged her up to the fourth floor apartment and tried to rape her. This man's she. Thankfully, she gets away. This man's name is Gregory Hummel. And Hummel is very interesting because he lived in nearby Brookline and he had access to multiple different vacant apartments and homes around the city of Boston in connection with his role as a realtor in Back Bay.

[Captain]

And was it just homes and residents, or did he have any access to warehouses or storefronts?

[Nick]

No, the report is that he had access to multiple different vacant apartments and homes around the city. So he has keys. He has access to these locations. He's going to know which ones are vacant. If he needs to use a location for any reason at all, without authority, of course. He was also found to have quite a few tools, including power tools, in his possession. Prosecutors said that Hummel had a history of violence against women and argued that he should be held without bail on the attempted rape charges because he was a danger to young women. Investigators in Karina's case were paying attention, of course. The lieutenant detective told the Boston Globe, we're certainly not identifying him as a suspect, but he is someone we would be interested in talking to. It's unknown whether the police did talk to Hummel. I would be shocked if they didn't. Although, I mean, it would be absolutely criminally negligent if they did not. But they. If they did talk to him or regardless of how he was looked at, they weren't able to pin this murder on him. That Herb Whitten that we talked about earlier, the air quotes. Older man killed himself in January of 97. He slit his own throat in his Andover Holmes bathroom. His attorney told the Boston Globe, I think his death related to the pressure he felt in being considered a suspect in this heinous, gruesome slang, saying that his client had always felt scrutinized by the police and the public, family and friends. He felt he had a scarlet letter on his chest and it was very, very tough for him.

[Captain]

Seems like every suspect that you bring up seems like a very solid leads.

[Nick]

Yeah. And with him, it seems like he had some mental health problems well before Karina's death, and that was well stated by a lot of folks. When he was much younger, he attended Boston College, but dropped out due to depression.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And he lived for years. He lived most mostly off of family assistance. He did have some negative interactions with police, but this was mostly stuff like disturbing the peace.

[Captain]

Right.

[Nick]

And to add to this a little bit, he started covering his windows with newspapers and then he was. The police were Called several times because he started walking around outside in his underwear.

[Captain]

Bizarre.

[Nick]

Yeah, he seems to have been.

[Captain]

But again, when you're. I'm going to wear a Superman shirt. I'm going to put my dog in a Superman shirt so I can get attention. Whether that's attention to actually start a relationship, to me, yes, I understand the point of. He's going downtown because he's going to have. He's using his dog to talk to these women. Okay. But. But it doesn't seem like that's working a ton. So anybody that's seeking out attention like that, again, it's not like he's. I'm just going to go downtown and walk my dog. But you. You start putting on these costumes, it becomes a stain. This is individuals that.

[Nick]

That.

[Captain]

That is dealing with depression, they're probably dealing with loneliness. And so, yes, he's getting attention, but is it the. Is it positive attention? So this, this is a tough one. So then you go, is this weirdness because he, you know, committed a criminal act, or is this weirdness just a byproduct of the depression and the. And the mental health state he was in?

[Nick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It would be difficult to sort that out. From our vantage point, it seems like this. Again, it seems like this was going on prior to. Let me say a couple things in favor of this individual, okay. As not being a good suspect. One, the police are on record saying they ruled him out as a suspect. What that's based off of how thorough that is, we don't know. But what we can say is the investigating agency is on record saying we ruled him out. So that does carry some weight, regardless of our level of understanding of that statement. He also did not live close to where the remains were found. And I am of the hardcore belief, like I believe you would, it would be very difficult to convince me otherwise. I think the dismemberment was solely for practical purposes of transporting and disposing of the body. Therefore, it would be extremely counterintuitive to take her all the way out of the city, dismember her, and then drive her all the way back into the city to then dispose of her there. And he had property. So if you are dismembering and placing remains in a dumpster simply for the hope of concealment and that she is not recovered, you could just bury her on your property.

[Captain]

Yeah, I get that. The only reason why I say return the body to that area is that because he lives not in that area, that maybe they're not that would be almost a ruse to not look at anybody as viable suspects other than within the area that she was found.

[Nick]

He does not strike me as the type of individual that would be capable of devising such a devious plan. Again, I. I don't. I. Okay, sorry. This. This is a difficult story to report and to talk about and to ruminate on because of. Of some of the language that needs to be used. So I'll just kick that monkey off my back right now. It's not very hard to bisect somebody. It may seem that way. You may think that it is. I've never done it, but if I had to, I could humble brag it. But it does take a decent amount of effort. She was drained of blood. You're going to have to clean a lot of stuff up. There's going to be a lot of work and effort involved. If I'm doing all of this, I'm doing it very purposefully. I don't under. You're doing it to alleviate and to lower your risk of getting caught. Hopping into a vehicle and placing her in a vehicle with you and transporting her back to where you took her from is then erasing all of your work and effort and your decreasing of that risk. You've just now put the risk way back up to what it was before going to all that effort. Look, it sounds like this is not the most rational person to have ever walked the planet, but it seems extremely irrational to. To do this. Am I right? We don't know. We won't know until they. Till they find the guy. Presuming that it's not. Presuming that it's not Herb Whitten. I hope it wasn't Herb Whitten. And I wish he would have been able to get the help that it so obviously appears that he. He needed. The BAU gets involved in this case here, Captain, it was, you know, we think of these big cities, it was only halfway through the year. Karina's was only the 35th murder in Boston in 1996. The FBI's BAU Behavioral Analysis Unit did get involved because of the unusual nature of the crime and started working with Boston PD on a profile of the offender very early on. Public speculation, of course, leaned toward a serial killer being responsible for Karina's grisly death, but because, you know, because the whole thing had been carried out by someone who seemed to have expertise in this area. But some aspects of the crime were atypical for a serial killer. For one thing, Karina had no injuries to her Body. Other than the strangulation and postmortem bisection, there was no evidence of torture or mutilation. Of course, whether sexual sadism was involved would be more evident from the unfound bottom half. I mean she didn't have a lot of the things that we typically would see. Bite marks, burns, cuts, anything of that nature. The bau, their stance is they rationalize that this perpetrator may be an inexperienced first time offender, but that he may have suffered from a mental illness and be tempted to act again. I don't see a lot of signs of mental illness. They are the experts. I am not. So I have to go with they got it right and I'm probably wrong. But the tempted to be tempted to act again, I agree with that 100%. Just simply, I mean just simply the oh, I got away with it once. Now how soon would that be? Would they mimic, would they mirror all their actions and activities from the first one to a T? No, that doesn't mean that. But the I got away with it once. If I find myself back in this scenario, getting away with it does not deter you from doing it again. Is, is the simple statement that I'm trying to put out here. Yeah, the BAU from the FBI did review the investigation. They would confirm this is 1999 that

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they're doing, doing it.

[Nick]

So we're about two and a half years, three years into the investigation. Their statement, they, they confirm from everything they reviewed that the Boston Police Department did all the right things in trying to solve the crime. They, Boston PD went as far to as, you know, they went beyond the city of Boston, beyond the state line and even went as far as Florida from reports that I could see, trying to figure out who had done this. And they were looking, they were also looking for similar crimes, anything that shared similarities with this unsolved case. But I think that we've hit on some things here that unfortunately remain. The power saw. Do you own a saw? Did you hear a saw? Did you hear any power tools being used? I think that if there's more suggesting actually more, there's everything that we, that we know to be fact in factual in this case that says she didn't leave that area. There's nothing telling us that she ever left that general area that night. So going off of that basis, it would be logical that she was killed somewhere in that area. And this is a heavily, heavily populated area. So we need somebody that has access to power tools and we need somebody that has access to a place to have the privacy to dismember and use the trash bags and then later dispose of her. That crime scene. Boston police have. They've had an inability to find that crime scene where she was killed and

[Captain]

bisected when they've had the inability to find the complete victim.

[Nick]

And that's. Well, and that's. That's, I think, the big hang up here on the investigation. This. That's what has stopped them and prevented them, I believe, from solving this case.

[Captain]

Yeah. Some of the cases that we talk about, there's little bits of information and maybe there's stuff that law enforcement's holding back. But this is a case, you know, it's been covered by a lot of people. It's a case that keeps getting brought back up. I think it's an interesting one to discuss because of the so many possibilities, but it's not one that I leave thinking that they're so close to breaking this case wide open.

[Nick]

No. And so a couple things before we wrap here today. My guess is that, look that we know that they searched other dumpsters and searched dumpsters in that area, but if I had to. If you told me make a wager on where the other remains would. Would have been placed, I think. I think this guy did the same with the other remains that he did with these. They were just placed in another dumpster somewhere.

[Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

And they just happened not to find them.

[Captain]

Yeah. Just happened to not have a guy going through the trash looking for bottles and cans.

[Nick]

There you go. That is part of this case. Right. Because if this homeless man was not in there looking for bottles, and now I can't say that without laughing bottles again.

[Captain]

Just clap. Clap your hands. Just clap your hands.

[Nick]

Had that look. This is very happenstance that she was found at all. And so.

[Captain]

No, and here's the thing, too, is if with these communications with her family and saying something, you know, big and bad happen if they don't find her body. We are now talking about this case, however many years later, 30 years later. But we're saying there's a possibility that she started a new life somewhere else.

[Nick]

Yeah, absolutely. And regarding the remains, future behavior is easy, most easily detected by past behavior and actions. And if that's what he did with these two trash bags, that's probably what he did with the other two trash bags. 48 pounds. 48 pounds is all that it took to carry her to this location where. Where she was later found. The. It. Here's what. Here's what aggravates the hell out of me with this case, okay? This Is not one where I'm aggravated at police because I don't think they did a thorough job. Because I think. Think that their lack of effort or. Or try or give a damn was lacking.

[Captain]

But we do agree that they should, since they named all the other suspects, they should name the copper.

[Nick]

Yes.

[Captain]

Yeah.

[Nick]

All men are created equal. And unless you live behind that blue wall, the yes name. They should have named that guy. Maybe, maybe doing it today doesn't carry the same weight that it would have back then. Whatever. But also, if you. If you do name him, you need to name why you cleared him. Or if you're not going to regard. I would like to know why they cleared the individual, especially if he's a cop. And I'm sorry, but I think you owe that to us. I think you owe that to us.

[Captain]

But I'm not clearing anybody publicly.

[Nick]

Now you got me angry about something else. I said I wasn't angry about that. What I am angry about regarding this case is that it was so easy. It was so easy for the killer in a heavily populated area. We do not have anyone who says, I saw her leave with this guy. I saw her be abducted. I heard a scream, I heard a power saw. I saw some guy walking with the trash bag. Dude gets pulled over when he's trying to get rid of something. Lives in a heavily populated area, thin walls next to each other. And nobody heard anything, nobody saw anything. And a girl just snuffed out like that over the course of a weekend. And. And if it wasn't for this individual in the dumpster, that's a whole. It's a whole different case. It was so easy for the bastard. And if it was that easy this one time. I know what I said starting off with this episode one, saying, look, it's. It's probably not a serial killer. The statistics would say that it's not. But it was so damn easy for him. Why not do it again?

[Captain]

If he liked it, he probably has.

[Nick]

Karina Homer has been dead for 30 years as of this recording, June of 2026. Unfortunately, when you hear this, when you're listening to it, if you pick up a calendar or open up your phone, you will see that this is the sad 30th anniversary of the last night that we know her to be out alive and well. The crime scene, wherever she was taken, wherever she was killed, wherever she was dismembered, is likely long gone. Her killer, now three decades old or approaching middle age, or maybe even deceased himself. His motives are now just guesswork. The only tangible remains are boxes of fruitless police reports, Karina's image in old newspaper clippings, and ever fading hopes that Karina will ever receive justice.

[Captain]

I want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage each and every week. Thanks for telling your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?

[Nick]

We do have some recommendations for you. So first, I do want to point out that that we had made reference to a case that we found similarities in a case that we covered here in the garage a while back. And that was the Rashawn Brazell case. And we covered that in three episodes. It was two episodes on the case itself and one episode where we interviewed his mother. Desire those episodes if you wish to go back and listen to them. Those are episodes 741, 742 and 743 with the first two titled Rashawn Brazell and the third titled Interview with Rashawn Brazell's Mother. I'd also like to recommend to you all, and this would be a we've recommended this in the past as well here a great podcast called DNA ID that is conducted by longtime friend of True Crime Garage, Jessica Bettencourt, who over the years, in our 10 years of doing True Crime Garage, she has helped me out many times with cases from Massachusetts and the Boston area. So thank you to Jessica for helping me once again with with this with the research for this week's case and in the past. And if you want to hear and see some more of her good work, you go over to the DNA ID podcast. We just saw her at CrimeCon and she's part of the Abjack Entertainment umbrella that goes on with the podcasting, True Crime Podcasting. And that is Mike Morford, who does that, who's been a guest on our show. And we've collaborated with Mike and Jessica in the past on several cases. Some of a missing persons cases won the Zodiac case. So the friendship goes way back. Check out DNA ID and also check out our old episodes Ran Brazelle. That's episodes 741, 742 and 743 on your garage radio dial.

[Captain]

And until next week, be good, be

[Nick]

kind, and don't learn.

[Jessica Bettencourt]

Sa. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of angie and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done. Well, for nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter from plumbing to electrical roof repair to deck up to. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust, find a pro for your [e-mail] in the US there's

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