True Crime Garage: Ellen Greenberg ////// 886

Release date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Nic and Captain Fat Hands
Special Guest: Cheryl "Mack" McCollum, Crime Analyst

Episode Overview

The episode focuses on the death of Ellen Greenberg, a Philadelphia school teacher found dead in her apartment in 2011 with over 20 stab wounds—a case officially ruled as suicide despite persisting doubts from experts, her family, and much of the public. Hosts Nic and The Captain revisit this mysterious and controversial case alongside renowned crime analyst Cheryl McCollum. They scrutinize new developments, discuss investigative flaws, and dissect the physical and circumstantial evidence—or lack thereof—that continues to stir debate over whether Ellen's death was suicide, homicide, or something else entirely.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recent Developments & Renewed Attention

• [04:15-06:59] News clips and context introduce renewed legal battles, the city’s reaffirmation of suicide, and the Greenberg family's continued pursuit for answers.
  • Attorney Joe Pedraza (representing the family) calls the medical examiner’s amended report “shameful” and “another obstacle that’s been thrown up by the city to prevent that investigation from being done.”
  • Original ME, Dr. Marlon Osborne, recants his suicide ruling but his current opinion doesn’t change Ellen’s official death certificate status.

2. Cheryl McCollum’s Background & Perspective

• [09:13-13:35] Cheryl “Mack” McCollum shares her crime-solving approach and long career, from learning from Nancy Grace to her Emmy-winning work on CSI Atlanta and hosting the podcast Zone 7.
  • Quote: “Do not ever discount luck. It’s a tremendous thing.” – Cheryl McCollum (10:35)
• Cheryl describes the importance of expertise in analyzing wounds and the need for pathologists and legal experts’ input.
  • Quote: “I wanted to talk to Dr. Priya Banerji for sure. She's a pathologist. I'm not. So I wanted somebody at that level to just break down for me those stab wounds. Could you possibly, as the coup de grace, stab yourself in the chest four inches deep?” – Cheryl McCollum (14:43)

3. Critical Review of the Case Circumstances

• [14:43-18:21] Cheryl challenges the foundational assumption of “no forced entry,” noting the contradiction with the fiancé breaking down the door, and why that false premise likely colored the medical examiner’s and police’s conclusions.
  • Quote: “Both of those things can't be true... [it] tells me they accepted somebody’s version of what happened, not their investigation.” – Cheryl McCollum (14:43-15:40)
• Nic and Cheryl emphasize that manner-of-death determinations are influenced not just by autopsy, but also by the crime scene and context.

4. Investigative Mindset and Protocols

• [20:31-21:13] Nic and Captain talk about approaching any unexplained death as a homicide until evidence clearly points elsewhere, citing why it’s harder to reverse a suicide ruling than to scale back from a homicide approach.
  • Cheryl strongly agrees: “Every single death should be worked as a homicide until you see differently... When you start to see something where you're like, okay, have you ever seen a suicide with 20 stab wounds to the head, neck, and chest?” (21:13)
• Quote: “In 44 years, if I tell you I've never seen it, suicide ain't coming to my mind yet.” – Cheryl McCollum (21:51)

5. Analysis of the 911 Call and Fiancé’s Behavior

• [21:51-24:11] Cheryl and the hosts critique the fiancé Sam’s call, focusing on his calm demeanor, delayed mention of the knife, and immediate acceptance that Ellen harmed herself.
  • Quote: “The last thing I'm thinking, we are so happy is that she's done this to herself.” – Cheryl McCollum (23:07)
• Suspicion is raised over his lack of concern about intruders and his seemingly prepared narrative.

6. Crime Scene Details and Physical Evidence

• [24:11-27:39] The discussion delves into possible staging, questions about the locked door and the apartment latch, the absence of Ellen’s fingerprints on the knife, and the presence of significant bruising.
  • Cheryl: “If it's been smeared and you don't have one decent print off there, I'd question that too.” (27:07)
• Defensive wounds and bruises are discussed, with Cheryl asserting that the number and distribution are inconsistent with suicide (28:04).
  • “You can't tell me, 'Well, she was clumsy.' Well, she was accident prone. It sounds to me like somebody beat her.” – Cheryl McCollum (38:48)

7. Behavioral and Psychological Factors

• [32:53-34:57] Cheryl lists the lack of suicidal indicators: no note, no text goodbye, no giving away possessions, no hint to friends, and imminent wedding plans.
  • Quote: “She had forward plans... future things on a calendar, one being a wedding.” – Cheryl McCollum (33:17)
• The hosts and Cheryl tackle the weapon and wound mechanics, referencing pathologist Dr. Banerji’s expert opinion that these wounds would be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, to self-inflict.
  • “Four inches on a knife and try to get it in a chicken... after her vertebrae is damaged.” (35:30)

8. Digital Evidence, Time of Death & Messaging

• [48:40-51:56] Nic presses the need for more analysis of digital records—was digital activity from her in her style, or possibly staged? Did Sam’s communications escalate to concern, anger, or panic?
  • Cheryl: “What is the rhythm?... Is it with an emoji or an exclamation point? ... He didn't go downstairs and beg for help... That ain't what he did.” (50:31)

9. Faulty Investigation and Lessons for Law Enforcement

• [52:07-54:14] Cheryl outlines investigative steps she would have taken: reconstructing the latch break, checking for physical evidence of forced entry, and compares shoddy work in high-profile cases.
  • Quote: “If you do it quick and you cut corners, that case will never go away...” – Cheryl McCollum (54:50)
• She details the imperative for exhaustive, unbiased documentation at the crime scene: “You only get one shot at your crime scene.” – Nick (57:44)

10. Alternate Theories and Suspect Pool

• [62:32-65:21] The team considers alternative explanations. Could someone else have killed Ellen? Is it conceivable (though unlikely) an outsider was involved, à la the BTK case? Cheryl reminds that high-violence, non-sexual homicides are usually linked to anger or revenge, not strangers.
  • “People are only killed for three reasons. Sex, money, and revenge, for the most part...” – Cheryl McCollum (64:29)

11. Key Unanswered Questions

• [70:00-76:16] Unresolved issues still bother experts and the public alike:

  • Trajectory of stab wounds (could she inflict them herself?)
  • Sequence and timing of wounds versus loss of consciousness
  • Why crucial evidence (e.g. digital forensics, fingerprints, bruise analysis, gym/locker examination) isn’t available or explained
  • Whether trash cans, drainpipes, or other venues were checked for evidence

• Quote: “If you do not have evidence, I don’t want to hear about a theory... The evidence that we have... does not lead anybody to suicide.” – Cheryl McCollum (76:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Cheryl McCollum on crime scene best practice:
  “I want to hear that [911] call while I’m standing in that apartment. You hear me? ... There’s a lot of flags with the 911 call.” (21:51-24:11)

• Cheryl McCollum on investigation mindset:
  “Every single death should be worked as a homicide until you see differently.” (21:13)

• On the suspect pool:
  “Highly violent and just vicious with no sexual assault... Your suspect pool gets shrank pretty good.” (64:29)

• On police error and transparency:
  “There should be no secrets here. In order for them to accept it, every single thing should be told to them, shown to them…” (53:12)

• On best crime scene habits:
  “You get one shot at your crime scene. You can only be there for the first time once. So don’t rush out of there... Do your due diligence.” – Nick (57:44)

• On the lasting impact of a rushed investigation:
  “If you do it quick and you cut corners, that case will never go away... They should have taken even an extra 30 minutes and worked it, worked the daylights out of it...” – Cheryl McCollum (54:50)

Important Segment Timestamps

• News updates, legal and ME ruling recap: [04:15–06:59]
• Cheryl McCollum introduction and credentials: [09:13–13:35]
• Expert roundtable and law enforcement training analogy: [14:43–17:26]
• Crime scene analysis and the “no forced entry” fallacy: [17:26–18:52]
• 911 call and fiancé behavior analysis: [21:51–25:18]
• Discussion of wounds, bruises, and suicide mechanics: [27:39–38:48]
• Behavioral evidence, lack of suicide indicators: [32:53–34:57]
• Comments on investigation failings and protocols: [52:07–54:50]
• Tips for rookies and single-chance crime scenes: [57:44–62:32]
• Alternate suspect theories (BTK, stranger, etc): [62:32–65:21]
• Outstanding forensic and evidentiary questions: [70:00–76:16]
• Cheryl’s favorite podcast episodes & crime stories: [78:32–80:58]

Conclusion

The episode ends with Cheryl McCollum lauding True Crime Garage’s impact, reiterating the need for detailed, impartial investigation, and recommending her podcast Zone 7 for further true crime analysis.

At-a-Glance:

“This case isn’t going anywhere... There needs to be more done on the front end. Don’t rush your crime scene. You only get one shot.”
— Cheryl McCollum (multiple segments)

Further Listening & Viewing Recommendations

• Zone 7 with Cheryl McCollum
• Captain Fat Hands on YouTube

This summary provides a comprehensive, detail-rich recap of the episode’s primary points and expert discussions—ideal for listeners who seek a nuanced understanding of the ongoing Ellen Greenberg case and its enduring controversies.