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Hate American Made ////// The Prophet - True Crime Garage | Wave AI Podcast Notes

Hate American Made ////// The Prophet

Tue Apr 08 2025

Hate American Made ////// The Prophet Part 3 of 6 www.TrueCrimeGarage.com In 1983 David Koresh formally Vernon Wayne Howell claimed to possess the power of prophecy. This would spearhead his accent to leadership of a Texas religious group known as the Branch Davidians. The Branch Davidians were a splinter group of the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists. Koresh prophesied that his martyrdom would take place in the United States. Thanks for listening, thanks for telling a friend.

Summary

True Crime Garage - Episode: "Hate American Made ////// The Prophet"

Release Date: April 8, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Hate American Made ////// The Prophet," hosts Nic and the Captain delve deep into the tumultuous life of David Koresh and the rise and fall of the Branch Davidians. This comprehensive exploration provides listeners with an in-depth understanding of the events that culminated in the infamous Waco Siege of 1993.

Early Life and Upbringing of David Koresh

David Koresh, born Vernon Wayne Howell on August 17, 1959, in Houston, Texas, had a troubled and abusive childhood. Raised initially by his grandmother, Koresh faced severe bullying and abuse, which shaped his psychological landscape. As Steve Buscemi narrates at [10:02], “He was pretty horribly bullied as well by the other boys at school… Some of the bullying was sexual in nature.”

The instability continued as Koresh's parents separated, and he moved back in with his biological mother, Bonnie Sue Clark, and her new husband. Tragically, Koresh revealed that he was sexually abused by a male relative during this period, further exacerbating his emotional scars.

Religious Awakening and Joining the Branch Davidians

At the age of 20, Koresh experienced a significant religious transformation, becoming a born-again Christian within the Southern Baptist church before joining his mother's denomination, the Seventh Day Adventist Church. This shift marked the beginning of his deepening involvement in religious movements.

In the summer of 1981, Koresh moved to Waco, Texas, and became involved with the Branch Davidians, a sect founded by Benjamin Roden in 1955. By 1983, Koresh began claiming prophetic gifts, asserting himself as a leader within the group. As highlighted at [18:12], “Lois Rhoden allowed David Koresh to begin teaching his own message to the Davidians.”

Ascension to Leadership and Controversial Activities

Koresh's rise within the Branch Davidians was marked by controversial actions and relationships. In 1987, he began a sexual relationship with Lois Rhoden, the widow of Benjamin Roden and then-leader of the sect. Koresh claimed divine inspiration for this union, stating, “I'm closer to God and more involved with God than any of you” ([21:01]).

His provocative teachings and manipulative tactics led to significant infighting within the group. A pivotal moment occurred when George Roden, Lois's son and the designated successor, confronted Koresh after an alleged arson incident at the Mount Carmel compound. The ensuing gunfight resulted in Rhoden being wounded and subsequently declared insane, weakening his position ([37:07]).

Consolidation of Power and Mount Carmel Acquisition

With George Roden incapacitated, Koresh capitalized on the power vacuum to consolidate his authority over the Branch Davidians. By 1989, the group began purchasing the Mount Carmel property in Waco after Roden failed to pay property taxes. This acquisition not only provided a strategic base but also symbolized Koresh's control over the sect.

Koresh's leadership style became increasingly authoritarian, with allegations of child abuse and stockpiling of weapons. As discussed at [47:35], “They are in possession of a bunch of illegal weapons,” raising suspicions and tensions with local authorities.

Events Leading to the Waco Siege

The culmination of Koresh's controversial leadership and the Branch Davidians' activities triggered federal intervention. On February 28, 1993, agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) attempted to execute a search warrant at the Mount Carmel compound. The operation, intended to be swift and non-violent, quickly escalated into a deadly standoff.

At [49:21], Buscemi explains, “They wanted to learn what was actually going on inside those four walls. Was there any kind of abuse by David Koresh or any of the other adults in the group?”

The initial firefight resulted in casualties on both sides, setting the stage for an extended and tragic siege that would capture national attention and leave lasting scars on all involved.

Conclusion

"Hate American Made ////// The Prophet" meticulously unpacks the complex layers of David Koresh's life, his manipulative rise to power within the Branch Davidians, and the series of events that led to the catastrophic Waco Siege. Through thorough analysis and engaging storytelling, Nic and the Captain provide listeners with a nuanced perspective on one of America's most infamous true crime cases.

Notable Quotes:

Steve Buscemi ([10:02]): “He was pretty horribly bullied as well by the other boys at school… Some of the bullying was sexual in nature.”
Steve Buscemi ([21:01]): “I'm closer to God and more involved with God than any of you.”
Steve Buscemi ([47:35]): “They are in possession of a bunch of illegal weapons.”

For more detailed discussions and episodes, visit True Crime Garage and join Nic and the Captain in their enthralling true crime journeys.

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Transcript

Steve Buscemi (0:00)

In 1932, one man opened a two room business school above a nondescript storefront in downtown Manchester, New Hampshire. How did it become one of the largest universities in the country? Okay, this case isn't exactly a mystery. Southern New Hampshire University offers over 200 degrees you can earn from your couch. And with low online tuition, Southern New Hampshire University makes earning your degree affordable too. Find your degree at SNHU Edugar. That's SNHU Edugar. Hi, this is Steve Buscemi. You know, the actor. Well, now I'm an actor and podcast host. From Piece of Work Entertainment and Campside Media in association with Olive Productions, comes Big Time, an Apple original podcast. Each episode follows the story of one misfit with big dreams who isn't afraid to bend a few rules or take a short shortcut to get there.

Captain (1:00)

Well, who steals bees? I was duped.

Steve Buscemi (1:02)

I shoot you in the leg.

Captain (1:04)

This is Big Time.

Steve Buscemi (1:06)

Follow and listen on Apple podcasts. By an unspeakable Act 8, the apocalypse would occur soon. More white supremacist groups, more anti government groups. David Koresh, Ruby ridge siege. Timothy McVeigh, more than 80 people dead. Bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City. Hate. By an unspeakable act. There is so little hope left. Hello? Hello? Yeah, this is Lieutenant Lynch. May have you. Yeah, there are 75 men around our building and they're shooting at us in Mount Carmel. Mount Carmel? Yeah. Tell them there are children and women in here and to call it off. All right, all right. Hello? I hear gunfire. Oh, hello? Who is this? Hello? Call it off. Who is this? Hello? Yeah, this Lynch. Hey, Lynch. Yeah, that's a kind of funny name there. Oh, listen, who am I speaking with? This is David Koresh. Okay, David. Notorious. Why did you guys do that for?

Captain (2:22)

Well.

Steve Buscemi (2:25)

What I'm doing is I'm trying to establish some communication links with you. No, no, no. Let me tell you something. Yes, sir. You see, you brought a bunch of guys out here and you killed some of my children. We told you we wanted to talk. No. How come you guys try to be ATF agents? How come you try to be so big all the time? Okay, David, there's a bunch of us dead. There's a bunch of you guys dead. Now that's your fau. Foreign. The Branch Davidians. To talk about this Christian group known as the Branch Davidians, we first need to introduce the Seventh Day Adventist Church. The Seventh Day Adventist Church is a religious group. It's a Protestant Christian denomination which is distinguished by its observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week and the Christian and Hebrew calendar as the Sabbath. Its emphasis on the eminent second coming of Jesus Christ and the end of days. The Branch Davidians is a fringe offshoot of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. The Branch Davidians emerged from the Davidian Seventh day community. A guy named Benjamin Roden established the branch Davidians in 1955. This is a group that are known for their apocalyptic beliefs and then in the 1990s, known for their leader, A1 Mr. David Koresh. The Branch Davidians believed in the imminent end of the world and identified the American government as the lamb like beast of the Book of Revelation. Now, much of the Bible is open to interpretation, but with some understanding. The second beast that appears in Revelation poses as a lamb someone who may present himself as a messiah, but actually is a false messiah whose speech and talk is satanic in nature. Then I saw a second beast coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast whose fatal wound had been healed. And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth and full view of the people. Because of the signs, it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast. It deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark which is the name of the beast or the number of its name. This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of man. That number is 666. In the 1980s, David Koresh became the leader of the Branch Davidians. As the head of the Branch Davidians, Koresh claimed to be its final prophet. His apocalyptic Bible teachings, prophecies, including interpretations of the book of Revelation, the seven seals, and the End of days, attracted various followers. The group lived at the Mount Carmel center, which was a large property near Waco, Texas. And the Davidians had their own flag. The flag depicted a six winged serpent and a star which resembled a star of David. When viewed from afar, flying over top of the seven seals. David Koresh was born in Houston, Texas on August 17, 1959. His parents were young and not married. I would describe his upbringing as dysfunctional. And David Kesh was not his birth name. He was born Vernon Wayne.

Steve Buscemi (34:33)

That's brilliant. Work smarter, not harder. George Rhoden exhumed this body, or at least Koresh claims so. And Roden says, no big deal. You know, I'm in charge of the Properties here. I'm. I'm moving this gravesite. I'm. I'm going to be moving the cemetery. The entire cemetery. I don't know the size of this cemetery. I'm guessing it's rather small. David koresh has got an answer for this, too. So he claims that, no, George Rhoden is not moving the cemetery. George Rhoden had actually issued a challenge to David Koresh and to. And to the followers who could resurrect the body. Right. Who could resurrect the body would then prove who the leader should be, because that's the powerful one. That's the one that is doing God's will. And so whoever resurrected the. The body would become the new leader. Or this, as David Koresh is explaining and telling to the. The other followers. And Koresh even takes this to the local authorities. He goes to the sheriff's office to file charges against George Rhoden for illegally exhuming a corpse. Yeah, the sheriff's like, hey, no problem. Just come back here. We need some proof, right? We can't just go and arrest this guy and charge him with something. We need some evidence to back up your claims that he committed this crime. So Koresh and a posse of about seven armed Koresh Davidians went to the Mount carmel center, attempting to get a photograph of the body, of the exhumed body. But George Rhoden wasn't dumb. He believed that Koresh would pull some shit. So Rhoden, now, by himself, gets the jump on Koresh and company, and a gunfight breaks out. By the time the sheriff and the deputies respond to this gunfight, George Rhoden had already suffered a gunshot wound and was pinned down behind a. Behind a tree. They had him surrounded. He couldn't come out. As a result of this incident, David Koresh and his followers were charged with attempted murder of George Rhoden. Now, at the trial, Koresh explained that he went to Mount Carmel to uncover evidence of a criminal disturbance of a corpse, of a crime committed by this George rhoden, the one he's accused of attempting murder on.

Steve Buscemi (43:45)

But ultimately he gets sent away to the mental hospital. And so in the eyes of everybody in the community in. In the county, Jefferson county, they all believe. Well, as George Rhoden, who was the crazy one and who was wrong and maybe even his mother as well. So whatever problem they had with the Branch Davidians, the local authorities that the, the slate gets wiped clean when the rodents are no longer around this act, like you said of this meth lab. So these people that were renting from, from Roden, when Koresh gets back there, they, they stumble on this meth lab and they do, as you said, report it to the local authorities that go in and shut it down and clean everything up. And this is ultimately deemed to be an act of good faith by the Branch Davidians to the local authorities. Where now the local authorities are going, okay, well, clearly the rodents were the problem if they're, you know, and so we, we can get along with. And we don't mind these Branch Davidians being here. They are, they're reporting things that are illegal. And that's kind of how things were at the local level for quite some time now. That's going to start to change because where we left off with the Koresh and his crew coming back to Mount Carmel, that's around 1989. And it actually wasn't until the following year when Koresh changed his name from Vernon Howe to David Koresh, Old Vern. You know what I mean? Vern. But we start to have some problems, right? So there's, there's some rumors going on and part of this is still some additional infighting. So there were, there were Branch Davidians that were no longer part of the group that, that when Roden was removed and when the rodents went away that they left the group and those persons were coming out and going to local authorities with complaints about David Koresh specifically and saying that he's having sex with underage girls that are members of the. That church and that they are stockpiling weapons. And there's truth in these allegations. There's also, there's also reason to kind of hit the brakes on some of these allegations as well. It's again, some of the, there's truth in some of these allegations, but some of these allegations are just purely come about because of bad blood where somebody who was no longer part of the community, no longer part of the Branch Davidians decided they didn't like David Koresh and they were going to go and tattle on him. And it's, it gets very dicey to say what allegations were true and what allegations were completely made up, but they were stockpiling weapons. But part of that was their income that they were generating. Part of their income that they were generating is think of, think of like a guy that owns a comic shop or baseball card shop. They're buying guns and then hoping to sell them later. At an increased price to make a profit. Now, they do believe in end times. Not only end times. They believe that they're eminent, that they are closer, that they are close. And so part of the stockpiling of weapons is to stockpile weapons, but part of it, too, is to generate some form of income.