Lane Bryant Murders 2026 /// Part 2

Summary

True Crime Garage: "Lane Bryant Murders 2026 /// Part 2"

Release Date: January 14, 2026
Hosts: Nic & The Captain
Topic: The 2008 Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, Illinois (Deep Dive, Ongoing Unsolved Case)

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Episode Overview

This episode is the second part in Nic and The Captain’s thorough exploration of the Lane Bryant murders, the 2008 mass murder at a women’s clothing store in Tinley Park, Illinois, where five women were killed, and one survived. The hosts revisit previously discussed material and integrate new insights, focusing on suspect profiling, forensic details, investigative missteps, and the ongoing challenges in solving the case. Rich in detail and speculation, the conversation blends seasoned true crime analysis with the show's trademark candidness and banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reviewing the Known Details

[03:02 - 07:50]

• Recap: Five women murdered, one survived; the suspect remains unidentified despite an eyewitness's solid description.
• Unique Suspect Description:
  • Black male, single braid on the right cheek with four light green beads.
  • Hosts shocked that such a unique hair feature ("Not only should his friends and family… recognize this hair, but… someone helped him do [it]." – Captain, 05:15) has not led to a tip strong enough to solve the case.
  • Debate on whether hairstyle was self-done or required an accomplice.
  • The sketch and later 3D composite images are unusually lifelike and haunting, but still didn’t crack the case.

2. Suspect's Gender and Height Clarity

[07:02 - 12:15]

• Internet speculation once suggested the killer could be female, but all law enforcement and eyewitness reports confirm the perpetrator is male.
• Suspect’s height reported inconsistently: initially 5’8”–5’10”, later 6’0”–6’2”; hosts urge listeners not to dismiss potential suspects based on slight variances.
• Weapon used was a Smith & Wesson .40 cal; killer took between $200–$300, possibly more, from store, customers, and employees.

3. The Duct Tape & Preparation

[12:15 - 13:51]

• Duct tape possibly brought by suspect; debate over whether more tools (like tape) were improvised on-site or planned.
• Killer wore a waist-length dark jacket, possibly with a roll of duct tape in the pocket, and black jeans with embroidered back pockets ("cursive G" design).
• He did not attempt to conceal identity with a mask but may have worn a ball cap or other head covering initially, removed at some point during crime.

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4. Criminal Profiling

[13:51 - 18:34]

• Two FBI profilers, Greg McCrary and Van Zant, believe:
  • The killer had likely been incarcerated and had “vowed never to go back to prison,” possibly prompting the mass killing to eliminate witnesses.
  • He possibly felt recognized or feared being identified.
  • He would kill again, even loved ones, rather than risk arrest.
  • The emotionless, execution-style shooting, for a small sum, is deeply chilling and unusual.
• Hosts partially challenge the “targeted victim” theory: based on store activity, random customer arrivals, and hostage sequence, targeting seems unlikely unless it was an employee.

Quote:

"He was in the store prior to any of the customers arriving… so that would tell me, if a person was targeted, it had to be one of those employees… But the surviving employee doesn’t tell us who this man’s name is." – Nic, 15:07

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5. Theories on Motive and Method

[18:34 - 25:02]

• Potential for drug-related desperation dismissed by hosts as unlikely, considering suspect’s composure and planning.
• Robbery extended to both store and customers; likened to the diner scene in "Pulp Fiction."
• The delivery ruse was well executed (with fake paperwork and coffee cup as props), suggesting intimate knowledge of store business or routines.
• The store opened at 10am; killer entered shortly after, indicating prior knowledge and calculated timing.

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6. DNA Evidence and Missed Investigative Opportunities

[25:49 - 33:12]

• Various rumors about DNA sources:
  • Blood under a victim’s fingernails from fighting back.
  • A dropped coffee cup or ball cap potentially containing the killer’s DNA.
  • DNA possibly left on duct tape if killer tore it with his teeth.
• Frustration: Police have been secretive—if items like the coffee cup, ball cap, or delivery paperwork are real, why not release pictures or descriptions to the public?
• Commentary on the lack of surveillance at Lane Bryant versus what could’ve been found at surrounding stores or gas stations.

Quote:

“You want information? Give us some information. You want tips? Give us the tips.” – Nic, 34:34

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7. The Hairstyle and Beads: Clues or Red Herrings?

[35:04 - 38:27]

• Discussed possible cultural or symbolic significance of single braid with green beads: representations of growth, unity, or simply a matter of personal style.
• Reference to gangs using colors/symbols (e.g., Chicago Bulls clothing) but no direct evidence linking this killer’s beads to gang affiliation.
• Hosts skeptical that the beads carried spiritual meaning—could be nothing or just an attempt at intimidation.

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8. The Vehicles: Another Overlooked Avenue?

[38:27 - 41:02]

• America’s Most Wanted, using NASA video enhancement, spotted two suspicious vehicles parked in front of the store at the time of the killings—both left in the window believed to match the killer's escape.
• Vehicles may have held either witnesses or been part of the escape plan, but nobody has come forward.

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9. Critique of Investigation & Potential Inside Knowledge

[41:02 - 53:14]

• Noted delays in involving the FBI officially (not until six months post-crime).
• Read a listener letter from a former manager at Fashion Bug (Lane Bryant’s sister company) explaining store delivery and banking procedures—suggests perpetrator likely had inside knowledge or experience (e.g., delivery driver or ex-employee, or tipped off by same).
• Deposits generally kept for morning drop-offs, meaning large amounts of cash could be present at opening, contrary to official company statements claiming otherwise.

Quote:

“Based on my firsthand knowledge of company procedures, I have long believed the Lane Bryant murders may have involved someone with inside knowledge of store operations.” – Listener Letter, 42:17

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10. The Challenge of DNA and Jurisdiction

[53:14 - 56:35]

• Illinois law has required DNA collection from felons since 2002, but a reported gap left ~2,000 former inmates escaping DNA cataloging by release before law implementation.
• If killer was from out-of-state (Indiana is only 25 minutes away), their own DNA database was not up-to-date until 2018/19, so suspect might never have been collected or compared.

Quote:

“If the general public’s idea is right, that this guy was a violent offender and the profilers were right… what if he’s in that batch of 2,000 [un-collected DNA]?” – Nic, 55:05

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11. Importance of Revisiting Cold Cases

[56:42 - 58:05]

• Emphasized value in re-examining cases: “We feel like time has passed since we covered it last. It’s important to revisit these cases. It’s important to continue to shine light on these cases that aren’t solved.” – Captain

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12. Upcoming Documentary & Call to Action

[58:05 - End]

• Upcoming documentary: "Who Killed These Women? The Tinley Park 5" (Charlie Min, Feb 2026).
• Hopes that media attention reignites investigation and public engagement.
• $100,000 reward for information leading to an arrest; safety warnings for tipsters due to killer’s dangerousness.
• Tip line: 708-444-5394 and email: [e-mail]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Unique Hairstyle: “This is a hairstyle that somebody helped him do. Obviously that individual would definitely know who this person was.” – Captain, 05:15
• On Targeting Theory: “I put him targeting one of these women very close to zero.” – Nic, 15:07
• On Evidence Secrecy: “Release a picture of the hat. Release a picture of the coffee cup. Release a picture of the paperwork… You want information? Give us some information.” – Nic, 34:34
• Cultural/Braid/Theory: “I don’t see somebody going, ‘I’m braiding my hair, put green in there because of my rebirth,’ and by the way, I’m going to Lane Bryant and execute a bunch of women.” – Captain, 38:27
• Listener Tip – Inside Knowledge: “Based on my firsthand knowledge of company procedures, I’ve long believed the Lane Bryant murders may have involved someone with inside knowledge of store operations.” – Listener Letter, 42:17
• On Revisiting Cases: “It’s important to revisit these cases. It’s important to continue to shine light on these cases that aren’t solved. We have five individuals that were executed and one that was almost executed. This case needs to be solved.” – Captain, 56:42

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:02 – Case re-introduction, suspect description
• 07:02 – Gender/height clarification/debate
• 13:51 – FBI criminal profile
• 15:07 – Motive speculation and sequence analysis
• 25:49 – DNA evidence discussion
• 30:26 – Critique of leaked/withheld evidence
• 38:27 – Significance of vehicles
• 42:17 – Listener letter (inside knowledge)
• 53:14 – DNA law and cross-state logic
• 58:05 – Upcoming documentary, reward, and tip info

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Further Reading & Final Notes

• Recommended Book:

  • The Unknown Darkness: Profiling the Predators Among Us by Greg McCrary (FBI profiler featured in this very case)

• Documentary:

  • Who Killed These Women? The Tinley Park 5 (slated for Feb 2026 release)

• Official Tipline:

  • 708-444-5394
  • [e-mail]

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Summary:
This episode offers a masterclass in methodical true crime analysis. Nic & The Captain draw on years of coverage, new listener insights, and their own seasoned skepticism to break down the Lane Bryant massacre’s unanswered questions. Despite detailed witness accounts, forensic rumors, and overwhelming commitment from the public, the perpetrator remains unidentified, leaving the case open for fresh leads. Listeners are left with both a sense of unresolved urgency and hope, as renewed media focus promises another chance at justice for the victims.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

SA.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome to True Crime Garage wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who is wondering why did you fail to clean off the lat pull down machine? Here is the cat.

[C]

It's because you're a dirty dirty bastard. It's good to be seen and good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.

[B]

On this day in the garage we are still sipping on this wonderful hazy double IPA called Saturday in the park by North Park Beer Company. And they got together with their friends at microphone from Chicago to create a beer to fully embody the feeling of summer. It ain't summer here in the garage I gotta tell you friends but this one is brewed with an assortment of citra varieties. It's triple dry hopped but still juicy. And a double at that garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's give some thanks and praise to our good garage friends. First up and cheers to Karen in Depair, Missouri.

[C]

And a big wheel like jib goes out to Barbara Armstrong from Flintstone, Georgia.

[B]

Next a double cheers to Tom and Corey Kaczynski and Dyer, Indiana.

[C]

And a big tall cans in the air to Johnny Neck Bones and Louisville, Kentucky.

[B]

And last but certainly not least we have a double fisted cheers going out to Lauren and Dylan and Maumelle, Arkansas. Everybody we just mentioned they contributed to the beer fund for the beer run in the garage fridge. Thanks you.

[C]

Yeah BWR and Beer run. Make sure you check us out on YouTube, make sure you subscribe to the podcast and Colonel, that's enough of the BS news.

[B]

All right everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Foreign Yesterday we were going through some of the press releases by the Tinley Park Police Department coming out regarding the homicides that took place at the Lane Bryant store. Five women were killed, one survived. We had good information by the survivor giving a good description of the assailant of the killer who as far as we know Captain walked out the front door on that Saturday morning in 2008, and we don't know who he is. We don't know where he went. And police are relying on you, all of you, and us, the public, for information about this man. The description we get is pretty on point here. Indecisive about who this guy is and what he looked like, at least at the time of the murders. And to me, it's a bit surprising and shocking that nobody came forward to say, I know who this man is. Now I say that. But there's been thousands of tips over the years, so I'm sure somebody called in saying, I think I know who this guy is. And police constantly reminding us in the days after the murders when giving the description of the killer that he may have and very likely has changed his appearance since fleeing the scene. But that doesn't change the fact that this man looked this way prior to these murders. It's a very unique hairstyle, down to the single braid hanging down the right cheek of the man with four. The report is four light green beads in this braid.

[C]

Yeah. One of my issues with this hairstyle. Not only should his friends and family members and even co workers recognize this hair, but this is also possibly a hairstyle that he didn't do himself, that somebody helped him do. And so obviously that individual would definitely know who this person was.

[B]

That's my thought exactly. Captain, I know that we've been at this for 10 years together, sitting in the garage, the true crime garage, and talking about these cases for 10 years, but I don't think. I don't think for a second that you need the experience of being in here for 10 years to think that the likelihood that this guy woke up that day, did his hair in this style for the very first time, and then walked into the Lane Bryant store, that. That doesn't even seem like a viable option.

[C]

Yeah, but if there was somebody else involved in this crime, and maybe they're the ones that did this hairstyle for him, obviously they would have a reason to not come forward.

[B]

Yes. Eventually we will get a released composite image. It's first a sketch, and then it will morph its way over a period of time into a 3D image of the killer. I gotta tell you, as long as we've been doing this, the 3D image that we get, it's probably the most haunting of composites that we've viewed over the years because. Because of it being 3D, it is so lifelike. It's. It's not like looking at a composite sketch. It almost looks like we are looking at a picture, a snapshot picture of the killer himself.

[C]

Yeah. And just to address what I feel is an elephant in the room is this case has been covered by so many individuals. And one of the things that we spent a little bit of time on in our initial coverage, our initial deep dive into this case, was, was this perpetrator male or female? Because there was some speculation, I believe, that this possibly could have been a female. With all the time that has passed with the DNA evidence, even if it's not a full profile, law enforcement should be at least able to tell us the sex of the individual. And everything that has come out from law enforcement and the eyewitness and basically everybody else is that this individual is a male and not female.

[B]

I feel like the thought of look, and we always say stay water. Right. Don't close a whole bunch of doors and come up with a theory and push everything else aside. So I won't fault anybody. There was a lot of online chatter about the potential that this killer was. Could be a woman. You know, instead of Jack the Ripper, we got Jill the Ripper. I think all of that came from the Internet, from chat rooms, from people trying to openly discuss this case and keep the case, the story alive so we can find this perpetrator. But all indicators from the people that are working the case and the hardcore information that has come out over the years is everyone telling us that the perpetrator, the killer, is male. Now, we did go through a pretty thorough description of the suspect in episode one. We've also went over that description in our previous coverage, which took place back in 2018. And we did have a lot of those talks and a bit of a debate of was the killer man or woman back in our previous coverage in 2018 as well. But as we sit here today, Captain, what else do we know about this suspect? Going over some of my additional notes, I just want to add on a little addendum to something I said in episode one. We talked about the height of the killer. The initial reports coming out saying 5 foot 8 to 5 foot 10 inches tall. Later we have reports of saying up to six foot tall. And I have now seen on two occasions and have this in my note, that some have listed him between 6 foot and 6 foot 2 inches tall. So that's all to say, don't disregard somebody just because they look like the guy. But he might be 1 inch too tall or 1 inch too short. That. Right. That should not be part of the equation here. We do know that the suspect Used a smith and Wesson Glock 40 caliber. This is based off of shell casings found at the scene as well as bullets that were recovered from the victims. The overwhelming majority of the reports out there is that the gunman took a few hundred dollars. And I've seen this as little as $200 and change. I've also seen it reported upward of more than $300. I don't think that they 100% know how much the killer took part of that. Just simply based off of the idea that police have not shied away from being open, saying that he was, he didn't just rob the store, he was robbing the customers as well and may have even robbed the two employees that were there that morning. We discussed that he was wearing a dark colored waist length jacket. Reports are that he had a roll of duct tape in one of his pockets of this jacket and that he was wearing black jeans or jeans with embroidery on the back pockets similar to a cursive G. And in our previous coverage in 2018, we went through a lot of this stuff, so stuff a lot deeper as to what the man was wearing or what it's suspected that he was wearing. Now to say the duct tape in one of his pockets is quite interesting because I've seen it reported many different ways. I think that it's, it's difficult to say 100%. I'm with you. You had said yesterday that most of the items used in this, in the commission of these crimes were items that were found or believed to have been into the store prior to, to his arrival. We know that he brought the gun with him. Obviously the duct tape's a little bit of a debate, but couldn't you see this playing out as such where he walks into this store and we know that he did not conceal his identity in the form of a mask or attempt to hide his face.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But you could see him walking into the store with this jacket on with a gun in one pocket and duct tape in the other. Now to say he didn't disguise himself, who knows, maybe, maybe he, somebody did his hair that way the night prior or the morning of, and he's never before or after wore his hair that way. That could be a possibility. And it's also reported that he came in with some type of covering on his head and that he may have or likely was wearing a ball cap as well. Now, to have the very down to the point description of his hairstyle would indicate to me at some point he took those, those head coverings off willingly. Or. Or they fell off at some point during the commission of these crimes. There was a criminal profile that was created by two FBI profilers. This is Greg McCrary and last agent Van Zant. And this was released to the Chicago Sun Times. This was not part of our coverage in 2018. And we. We have a. A bunch of stuff that we got to in part one and more that we'll get to in this episode. That was not part of that coverage as well. But these two profilers sat down together, went through all of the information and evidence, and came up with the following profile that they pieced together.

[C]

Yes, stating, I always like the profiles.

[B]

Well, and I enjoy when we have more than one profiler in the room to bang one of these things out. And they say they believe that the killer had very likely been incarcerated before. And they say that his willingness to indiscriminately murder several women indicated that he had vowed to never go back to prison. So they're speculating that the killer likely believed himself to have been mistreated by society and that he had likely taken the wrong lessons from his prior incarceration. The two even theorized that the killer might have known one of the victims or had personally targeted them, believing that they could identify him. This fear of being identified, they believed caused the gunman to pull the trigger on all six women.

[C]

Yeah, that's something that I've contemplated a lot in this case, is what was the motivation, if they're being truthful with what they believe this individual got out of this. This is a vicious execution of multiple people for a few hundred bucks.

[B]

I have a very hard time, and I'm not in the business of disagreeing with very experienced profilers. And these two in particular, I have a lot of respect for. But I think that they're throwing a few extra things out there that they're leaving some doors open in that because they're relying so heavily on the general public for information about this killer. I don't believe for a second that he targeted anybody there. And let me. Let me break it down for you like this. We have two employees. One was killed, one survived. We have four customers. So logic tells you that the only two people that this person or others may have a high percentage chance of being in that store or. Or absolutely being in that store that day would be the two employees. The four customers are seemingly random. And I say that because, as the story goes and as the narrative always has been, he was in the store prior to any of the customers arriving at that store. He didn't follow a customer into the store. He engaged the two employees in conversation, and then customers started arriving. So that would tell me that if a person was targeted, it had to be one of those employees. Well, the surviving employee doesn't tell us who this man's name is. And furthermore, if the person targeted was an employee, think about this scenario that played out. He had four women, those two employees, part of those four women in the back of the store, bound face down on the floor. If he was sent there to kill a target, he would have killed all four women and left then. But that didn't happen. Two more customers came in and he took them hostage as well and placed them back in the back of the store. So I, I would put the chances of him. I'm not saying he didn't know any of these women by happenstance. What I'm saying is I put him targeting these women very close to one of these women, very close to zero. The other thing that they say that's interesting, that's in this profile that we should point out is that maybe they say, well, maybe he, he was recognized or one of the victims recognized him, but they very astutely follow that up in their profile by saying, or he simply may have felt that he was recognized. I think there's too much else going on here, Captain, that could be a possibility. But, I mean, you got a 911 call, you got the witness saying the police siren was heard before the shots were fired. I. If there was a straw that broke the camel's back, if there were, if he was teetering on the edge and something put, pushed him over, it's either the 911 call or the sirens, police sirens going off, or both.

[C]

Right. Which I think would lend towards their profile of this individual. Had a criminal history, was incarcerated at some point, decided that, never going to go back again, not alive, at least.

[B]

The two profilers also believe that this mass killer not only has been likely incarcerated before the killings, would do anything to avoid going back to prison. And of course, they remind us that he is very still very dangerous. And this is even more scary part. And maybe this is why the right person has not come forward. They state in their profile they believe that the killer feels that anyone that is in a position to help police catch him, that he will kill again, even if it's somebody very close to him, a relative, a loved one, a friend, that he would do anything not to return to prison. Now, we talked a lot about some of the theories that have been bandied about over the years, I think that probably I, you know, I've gone down many roads with this mentally on mic and off mic. And I'm, I'm not going to say that I'm locked in hardcore on any one theory. I think that there's too many options here and a lot of them seem likely just as much as, as the next one. I think that there's something to the idea that he's robbing the customers as well, that he's not just there to rob the business. Like that seems like something that. I don't think that he decided to do that on the fly. I think that he went in there with the intention of, I'm taking whatever I want in that store, including whatever these people have on them that I want.

[C]

When he enters the store pretty quickly after opening, he has a ruse, right? Hey, I got this delivery. Okay, well, that's made up. He has a gun at that point. He has possibly duct tape at that point. He could have easily shut the front door, locked the front door, made sure all the doors were locked, but he chose not to do that.

[B]

Yeah, I think that there may have been enough time to give him that option. And if so, then you're right. That's a choice that he made. And look, it's very Pulp Fiction, right? Remember when they're robbing the diner and I don't know if their boyfriend and girlfriend or husband and wife, but the, the, the male robber says to the female robber, hey, remember when you decided to rob the customers at our. As well? At our last robbery, at our last hold up, that was a really good idea. We got more money from them than we did from the business. So it seems to me like this was something that, why he's robbing, that's anyone's guess. There's been a lot of talk that maybe the, this individual was a drug addict that was desperate for money and would have done anything to get a few hundred dollars to make a fix. I, look, he's, he's losing it. We, we, we agree on that. He's losing control of the situation. He, he's becoming increasingly agitated. Maybe that means that he's a bit strung out. I think he, to me, I think he's a little too controlled to suggest that he's strung out to the point that he would be so desperate to kill for a few hundred bucks. Kill five people, six people. Remember, he, he thought he was killing six people right there that day. And I say that I think he's too controlled because we went through the Background of our victims a little more briefly in this coverage than we did in our prior coverage. These were not dumb women. He convinced them. He. He was convincing enough to them that they didn't panic in the moment when he said, hey, I'm here for a delivery. They. He has paperwork. They're talking and interacting with him. The manager calls another store thinking that there's some kind of mix up, that the delivery guy is where he thinks he needs to be. He's convincing enough in that regard. These were smart women, smart, educated women. This manager had been there for two years. So he's convincing enough upon arrival and during those conversations. There's no giveaways to them in those moments that he is there to rob and. Or potentially harm or kill people.

[C]

Yeah. I think the other thing too is everybody is affected by when your family or friends, they're addicted, have some substance abuse problem. But most those people don't go out of their way to be violent towards others. And so this idea that he. Well, he was just a crackhead that came up with this idea to rob a retail store and to execute six individuals so they can make sure they get high that day. I think that's kind of.

[B]

And think about it too. He's also described as well groomed.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And cleanly dressed. I mean it. To me, that does. It's. It's an interesting theory. I don't say. I say don't close the door on that one, but it doesn't seem to ring so true.

[C]

Seems a little less likely. I also think also his erratic behavior, some people can point to. Well, was there something mentally ill? Well, you have to be somewhat mentally ill to want to execute six innocent people. So. But I think you see him, like you said, there's a sense of control, there's a ruse, there's a plan. Whether or not the SUV is a getaway vehicle, whether or not there's a good getaway vehicle or not, you still have to have the plan to get away on foot. And I think the timing of this store opens at 10. Not all stores open right on time.

[B]

Some.

[C]

Some stores open five minutes early. But the fact that he's entering the building basically when it opens makes me feel like this person had a plan and they had their shit together in a criminal sense. All right, we are back. Tall cans in the air. Word to your mother.

[B]

Big ups, big ups and cheers.

[C]

Word to your mother.

[B]

Let's talk about the DNA, Right, the DNA question mark. We should say DNA, DNA. And it's been highly, highly, highly, highly Suspected by many, many, many, that there is DNA and the police have the killer's DNA. Is it a clean sample? Difficult to say. But where could that DNA have come from? Okay, so there's some obvious, obvious places here where that could have come from. First and foremost, we've talked about it multiple times. We had one of the victims, it's believed that she fought back and that the rumor has always been that they collected her fingernails because. And probably, I mean they would collect the fingernails of every victim. But hers in particular had blood under them and it may have come from the suspect. So there's, there's one place, another rumor has always been that the killer dropped his ball cap, that the ball cap was recovered. Well, maybe there was a hair with the follicle still connected. That's a location that they could have recovered some DNA. The other rumor that's always been talked about in this case is that the surviving victim took detectives went to the scene with the detectives to show them where the killer had discarded of a disposable coffee cup. That when he walked into the store, he's got fake delivery paperwork in one hand and a to go coffee in the other hand. And that he was drinking from that and that he either sat it down on a countertop somewhere or a table somewhere, or threw it in a waste basket.

[C]

Again, this seems like something that would be easy once you have that cup. Where did this cup of coffee come from? And a lot of gas stations have surveillance.

[B]

You are going down the right road, my friend. Remind me to circle back to that after we talk about this DNA. Another rumor and this one was actually dug up by True Crime Garage after our coverage in 2018. Look, it was no mistake that we were covering it around the 10 year anniversary. We were hoping it would be back in the news cycle, people would be talking about it again and that, that our coverage could further those conversations. And maybe they did. And one conversation that we know took place based off of that was something that seems very likely and very credible. And I cannot tell you the persons it was more than one person, I can say that that had this conversation with the garage. These are persons in the state of Illinois is the most that I will say. But that the, the DNA may have come from something that the killer brought with him to the scene. And I don't mean a coffee cup, disposable coffee cup or his hat, that it came from the duct tape. Now look, duct tape picks up a lot of guck and hair and things. If you leave it lying around in A dirty location. So that seems like a possibility. But what seems to me like the. The most likelihood here, Captain, is what do you see people do time and time again when it comes to duct tape? Sometimes it's hard to tear or start the tear right. You see, time and time again, somebody will pull off a little bit of it. And once they get the length that they want, they use their teeth to cut and start the tear for them. And if he did this saliva repeatedly? Yeah, if he did this six times over. And some reports out there are that he not only bound the women's hands, but their. Their feet as well. Some reports state that he ordered the women to tie each other up. But if he did this once, twice, three times, or all six times, that's six chances that he left saliva, his DNA on that duct tape.

[C]

Yeah, or like you said, if they bound the hands and feet, then 12 times.

[B]

Even better.

[C]

We're doing some math in the garage now.

[B]

I asked you to remind me to circle back to something, and I've completely forgotten what that item was. I got all wrapped up in the duct tape.

[C]

Oh, the gas station coffee cup.

[B]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Now, here's where we have. We have to critique the police department.

[C]

You. I think sometimes you have an issue with this. I don't have an issue with this. I have no issue with critiquing. We're almost at.

[B]

What. No, I. If I had an issue, I wouldn't do it. I'm about ready to do it right now. Get out of my way. I'm about to. About to do it right now.

[C]

I'm going to throw these motherfuckers under the bus.

[B]

Just like I think that they've not released enough information. You've. I've said this a million times in the garage. If you're asking the public for help. You know what I used to always say when. When I would have customers and they're asking for something or want help with something, sometimes you have to remind them. Help me to help you. You're asking me of something, but you're not giving me enough information to correct the situation or to. To help you get to where you need to go. I want to help you. I just need a little more information. You hit on something there, my friend? If this dude brought in a coffee, disposable coffee cup with him, there's indicators where that thing came from. Did it come from a hotel? Did it come from a gas station? Was it a Starbucks? Was it a Dunkin Donuts?

[C]

Was It a Duncan, your.

[B]

This. This stupid box store fu. Lane Bryant didn't have surveillance cameras. Maybe care about your employees and the customers, for starters, and their safety. But maybe the place where he got that coffee from had surveillance footage that you could have got to rel if it was a BP or someplace that. That was just down the road.

[C]

Right?

[B]

They had eight agencies there. They could have been in every gas station, every coffee shop within. Within 40 minutes drive time of there within an hour. Or. Or as soon as they're made aware of that. An hour of being made aware of that coffee cup.

[C]

Yeah, and if I'm law enforcement, if. If I'm in charge of this investigation, I'm walking in and going, well, one, we have a survivor. But we have. We have five executed victims. I am calling anybody for help. FBI, CIA, I don't care. Anybody that can help us. And I'm. I'm pulling everybody into this case. I am calling everybody. That's all for going get it. Get your ass to the police department because we're going to round up as much surveillance footage as we can from this area.

[B]

Now, the coffee cup, as we said, could just be a rumor. Could be. Maybe there never was a coffee cup. But one of the other rumors was that he left or dropped his hat at the scene. Okay, well, if that were to be true, don't just give me a description of that hat. Take a photo of it and release it to the public.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Now, again, just a rumor. We don't know if there was a hat that was left at all or a hat involved at all. Okay, another rumor was that the fake delivery paperwork that he arrived with was also left at the scene. There should be some indicators of what? That I can't believe if that was the case. It's not like he just walked in there with some rolled up notebook paper. This would have been something that would have. Now, now look, he could have just pulled this out of any random trash can, right? But it all but still run down that lead. And I'm not saying that they haven't, but what they haven't done is shown that to the public. Let's pretend for a moment that all these rumors are true. If all these rumors are true, and you're begging the public for help on five homicides and a woman that had to uproots and change her ent life and her family's life came within inches of dying, being murdered.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Release a picture of the hat. Release a picture of the coffee cup. Release a picture of the paperwork. And how about you get on the Internet and download a image of the gun that was used and released all four of those images along with your computer 3D image of the suspect as well. You want information? Give us some information. You want tips? Give us the tips.

[C]

Just the tip. Just give us the tip.

[B]

The one thing I will agree. Look, I agree with the profilers a lot on. On their findings and their speculation about who this guy is and where he came from and maybe even some of his motivations, even if they came about at the last minute. I found just a quick search of if there's any real meaning to green beads, light green beads. A few different websites that I found said that green beads are often a indicator of some type of growth or rebirth, which would play along with the idea of, like, somebody bettering themselves, that, you know, I'm out of prison now. I'm. I'm never going back. So here, let me read this for you. A single braid in the hair often carries deep culture, spiritual and personal meanings, symbolizing unity, strength, and connection to ancestry, mind, body, spirit, balance, and even marital status, depending on their tradition. So that's. Is there any meaning behind a single braid in the hair? The. As far as the green beads go.

[C]

But here's one thing, though, too. If this guy was planning this out, which I believe he was, maybe he didn't have a complete, detailed plan of what was going to happen, and maybe there was some improvising going on. But you would know that by having this unique hairstyle, even though you're covering most of it up with a hat. But if somebody came in and I saw their side profile, I could tell you if they had braids in their hair or not, even though they're wearing a hat. And then obviously you have this single braid in front of their right side of their face, so it wouldn't matter to him. Or maybe he's not that bright to go, hey, this is a way for them to identify me. So that, again, kind of goes back to my thought of maybe the plan all along was I am going to take whoever hostage. I will leave no witnesses. So it doesn't matter if they see my face, doesn't matter if they hear my voice. It doesn't matter if they see my braids or these beads. And I think a lot of this gang activity is. It's way more complicated and way more thought out than I think a lot of people think. I was watching the thing the other day on gangs that will identify the. For example, though, that gang will use, like, Chicago Bulls, so they'll have the colors of the Chicago Bulls. And a lot of the gang members will wear clothing items of the Chicago Bulls. So that's where I go to it is they're some kind of gang or criminal activity happening in that area. And, and are their colors green? Because I, I don't see somebody going, well, I'm braiding my hair, put green in there because of my rebirth. And by the way, I'm going to go down to the local Lane Bryant store and execute a bunch of women.

[B]

Oh, I agree. I mean, the green could mean anything. It all co. It also could mean nothing at all. I mean, but it's a, it's a choice that somebody made. Either he made the choice for four light green beads to be at the end of this braid or, or the person that did his hair decided on that. Now, America's Most Wanted covered the case multiple times. One of the things they say is the biggest clue, question mark. This could be the biggest clue to the killer's identification. Eyewitnesses told, or an eyewitness, I should say told cops that she saw the killer had a braid over his right ear. The end of the braid had four light green beads on the end. And back to something I was talking about prior, this was my findings. Light green beads generally symbolize renewal, growth, healing, harmony, and luck, representing fresh starts, balance, and a connection to nature, often linked to the heart chakra for love and compassion. But specifically, shades like mint and jade can add meanings like prosperity, peace, or transformation. They're popular in jewelry for personal growth and or meditation. Back to those vehicles that we talked about, which I also think could be a very, very big clue as well. America's Most Wanted took surveillance video from the parking lot of the shopping center where the killings happened. To the leading expert on video enhancement, this is Dr. David Hathaway of NASA. Dr. Hathaway and America's Most Wanted correspondent John Lieberman found two mysterious vehicles on the tape. At 10:39am Shortly before the 911 call is made from inside the store, a van or SUV arrives in front of the store and parks head on directly in front of the door. At 10:40am another car arrives and parks nearby. What's more, at 10:45am that vehicle leaves and less than a minute later, the other vehicle departs. The vehicles leave right around the same time police believe the killer would be leaving the area. Cops think the vehicles at the very least, contain witnesses to the crime and could even be linked to the killer.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think this case is very difficult And I don't think any detail is too small or too big to examine and re. Examine and see if there, if there's a little bit of smoke that maybe there's fire. I mean, look, maybe I'm a son of a. I don't know, but. And maybe I've watched too many M. Night, Shamalama, Ding Dong movies. But again, if I'm investigating this crime, I am vetting the crap out of the surviving employee. Because these actions of this guy coming in right after the start of the day with this delivery, and this seems to be something that happens. I mean, it's common enough where they call another store to see if this individual just has the wrong store. I'm going to vet her as much as I can. And it's not even just about her being involved. It'd be more of what is her information of the other employees that weren't there that day. How much did these other employees talk about the operations?

[B]

We were not the only ones to have criticism for the Tinley Park Police Department on this. It's gone on over the years. And you had talked about getting everybody involved. And we do know that they had. They got involved with the. That one particular South Area Task force was helping them and assisting them in the investigation right from the jump. They had other agencies that were called in responding to the area as well, which is helpful and the right thing to do. Part of this criticism publicly, though, comes from the idea that the FBI was not asked to officially get involved until September of 2008, which would be six to seven months later. And they've taken some heat as to why did they wait so long to get the FBI involved. And you are hitting on something here that we've been thinking about a lot over the last couple of days and weeks. Here is that we have a note from a friend. And I'll read this note to our beautiful listeners. Earballs up, it reads, From 2005 to 2008, I was employed by Charming Shops, the parent company of Lane Bryant and Fashion Bug. I served as a store manager for Fashion Bug. Based on my firsthand knowledge of company procedures, I have long believed the Lane Bryant murders may have involved someone with inside knowledge of store operations. Operations. When merchandise deliveries occurred, the driver would enter the store through the front entrance holding delivery paperwork that sounds identical to what has been described to us that the killer did back in 2008. They go on to write, the driver would notify store staff of the delivery and then return to the truck to move it around to the rear of the building where the stock room doors are located. The fact that the perpetrator entered the store holding papers and claiming to have a delivery strongly suggests familiarity with these procedures. Another common question is why the robbery occurred so early in the day when stores are assumed to have little cash on hand. That makes sense because you would. If you're just opening for the day and a robbery takes place minutes into the business day. One would expect there to be very few, if not zero, sales at that time. And our friend goes on to write. In reality, corporate policies required managers to take deposits to the bank in the morning due to safety concerns about making night deposits. Because the murders occurred so close to opening time, it is very possible that the previous day's deposit had not yet been taken to the bank. In addition to the deposit, each cash register typically contained between 200 and $300 at opening. And there was also a backup change order kept in the safe. It was not unusual for a store to have several thousands. To have several thousands of dollars on hand in the morning when the deposit register, tills and change funds were considered together. I do not know whether the perpetrator was a former delivery driver, a former employee, or someone assisted by an employee at the time. However, based on my experience and understanding of the store operations, I believe law enforcement should give serious consideration to suspects who had direct knowledge of or connections to the store. I'll expand on some of this Now. I don't have any knowledge of Lane Bryant. I don't have any knowledge of this charming Shops corporation, which was the parent company of several different chains. In fact, I've never set foot in a Lane Bryant store. So. So.

[C]

Well, you haven't lived, my friend.

[B]

That's right. One day, captain, I'll get there.

[C]

Very nice to go into a retail store and know that you're not on surveillance.

[B]

I'm going to go flying through the front doors of the Lane Bryant shirtless on roller skates, with. With sparklers tied to the roller skates like Benson Boone. And just, Just open up the. Open up the whole joint right there. No, in all seriousness. So when our friend wrote to us saying that corporate policies required managers to take deposits to the bank in the morning due to safety concerns about making night deposits, I'll echo that statement. Again, I don't know of this corporation and how they do their work, but in the one retail setting that I worked in that was. It was forbidden to do night deposits at the bank. In fact, it was explained to me by the general manager and the regional manager because one of my duties at some point became making the bank deposits was that they could only be conducted during the day because the company's insurance only covered that money or harm done to the employee if the deposit was made during that. Like there was all kinds of parameters that you had to follow right when making that deposit. One, and you may know this from your days being a banker, but one of the rules was you had to park in the parking lot of the bank. Now that might sound silly, like a no brainer, but the bank that we made our deposit at was in a much larger parking lot and you had surrounding businesses. So it was explained to me multiple times. Hey, if you pull into the parking lot and every spot is taken, don't park in a neighboring parking lot and run over. You wait until spot opens up, then park and then make the deposit. And we didn't make. The deposit I was making was on a Sunday, so the bank wasn't open. So I had to make the. Put it in the Dropbox.

[C]

Yeah, it's called the night drop.

[B]

Exactly. But we were doing it during the day and as explained to me, the insurance only covered us during the day, only covered us if we were in that parking lot. So that makes a lot of sense to me. Now I will say in this particular case, we do know that a spokesperson for Lane Bryant came out very shortly after the murders and explained that there would only have been a very small amount of cash on on hand at the time of the murders and the robbery because they had made their deposits prior to opening the store. Now I think some people took that to mean that the deposits were made at night. That may be. I don't know. I don't have any reason to discredit the spokesperson. But I will say this. Regardless of what time they typically make the deposits, I trust our friends statement more. One, that we know the person and two, based off of this speculation, if this goes down, of course you're going to say we keep very little money on it. You don't want to become a target for somebody else. You don't want somebody seeing this in the news thinking, oh, this person, yeah, they had to kill some people. I would never do that. But they probably got away with a whole bunch of money. No, you want to get out in front of that.

[C]

Well, it makes sense though. If you only have two employees showing up, you show up, you double check the deposit, you make the deposit, then you come back and you open up the store.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Somebody might not know all those details. So that's why this individual Shows up right after opening. Oh, they open the store at 10. As long as I get there within minutes of them opening, there could be a deposit. And then my question would be, well, do we know how much money was meant to be deposited that day? And what I was told is if you have a manager, it's normally the manager and like the assistant manager, they count and double check the deposit. You know, one looking after the other. Well, if one of the managers isn't there, then one of the associates will do it. So who was working that night? Did anybody tell any of their friends or family members about how much money they were meant to deposit the next day? And like you said, there was a sale. Was the sale starting that day or was the sale going on? Did they have a lot of traffic the last couple days? Was it a higher amount made the day before than normally was made?

[B]

And an employee that may not regularly close or never closes the store or never opens a store may have no awareness of when that deposit to the bank is actually delivered.

[C]

Like when I worked at PacSun in the mall, you just went in and at some point you had like.

[B]

A.

[C]

Daily sales number that you. A quota that you needed to try to hit. But I didn't know what the store's quota was because I didn't work there that long. But if I would have worked there longer, I probably would have known. I remember working at a guitar store for many years and I didn't even know that they had like a daily quota. And it wasn't like, oh, we got to make this or we're going to close. It was just like, based on what we normally sell, we need to make X amount of dollars. Obviously on the weekend, that was a higher amount than on a Monday.

[B]

If Tinley park police department has more information that can be shared, One, you should have done it a long time ago. But let's not delay it any any further because everybody is saying the same thing at the time. Minutes after they're saying, suspect is believed to be 29 years old. The description that they released to the public the following day is that they believe the suspect is between 25 and 35 years old. That killer, if he is still alive, would still be a relatively young man. Still a young man. And it's not yet been 20 years on this case.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We could be talking about somebody who's 43 years old, 45 years old, 50 years old. I went back and I wanted to double check something on the DNA part of this. And I was very impressed with the state Of Illinois. Look, I love my state, and I think that they've done a lot of great things, especially to deter crime and crack down on crime over the years. One thing that we did was passing a law in 2010 and enacting that law in 2010 that if you commit a felony or if you're locked up for a felony, we take a DNA sample.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you are then in our CODIS system. Well, my concern was that maybe Illinois didn't do this until 2010 like we did here in Ohio or after. And that's why, you know, because everybody says every regular Joe out there, the Colonel, yours truly included, says this guy has committed violent crimes. Prior, maybe after. Where is he? Why haven't we found him? What's wrong with the DNA? Do they have DNA? I think they have DNA. Use the damn DNA. What's impressive with Illinois is that they had enacted that law back in 2002. Back in 2002. So this was something that they were doing many years, six years, roughly, prior to these murders. And so that puts the likelihood of him being a violent felon in the state of Illinois at a much lower percentage. However, I did find within that study that persons were saying that they are fully aware that. That they believe approximately 2,000 inmates were released, and DNA was not connected or collected from those inmates before they were released. And it simply came down to the law came into effect, and they didn't have the manpower resources, the collecting test, to. To collect those before those persons were released. Now, what I find to be really interesting about that is if the general public's idea is right, that this guy was a violent offender and the profilers were right that he had been locked up before, what if he's in that batch of 2,000? That's not a big batch of people. So the other part of that, Captain, that I was getting to is what you are. The door that you're knocking down right now is, what if he's from another state? What if he's from another state to get to Hammond, Indiana, or Munster, Indiana, from Tinley Park? 25 minutes, 35 minutes. If you're a slow driver taking the long the wrong route, you could be in Indiana in less than an hour. What if he's a violent felon with a previous conviction from the state of Indiana? And guess what? What do we know about the state of Indiana? They did not enact that same DNA felony law in their state until 2018 or 2019.

[D]

Right.

[B]

So 10 or more years after these murders were committed, One of the things.

[C]

That I admire about you. And you said before we even started the podcast, before we even recorded the first episode, you said, I would like to be a show that covers a case. And when we have more information that we revisit those cases, especially the ones that aren't solved, that we feel like we could shine some light on. This letter that you read was from a listener that is very fascinated with this case, was actually going back and listening to our episode, which caused her to watch different documentaries online. And because she worked for this company, she was very fascinated with this case because she had a connection to it. She felt so compelled by the information that she thought she had that she called in this tip. So it's not just something that we're reading to our listeners. This is a tip that has been given to law enforcement. But we feel like time has passed since we covered it last. It's important to revisit these cases. It's important to continue to shine light on these cases that aren't solved. We have five individuals that were executed and one that was almost executed. This case needs to be solved.

[B]

I do want to add here, Captain, that there is a documentary about this case. I believe it's going to be titled who Killed these Women? The Tinley Park 5. And it's slated to come out in February of 2026. In fact, there are some theaters, some special advanced screenings at select theaters in Crestwood, Illinois and in Chicago, Illinois. This is on the 3rd of February and the 13th of February. I will let those people who are interested in look that information up. But I. I want to point out too, that this documentary is done by documentarian and director Charlie Min. And while that name may not be familiar with everybody listening today, I am somewhat familiar with his work. He's done a bunch of true crime documentaries over the years, Some really good ones, ones that we have discussed here on our show. One that we've discussed, Captain, you'll remember this one is where is Robert Fisher? He's an FBI Most Wanted fugitive. He's done documentary on that one, as well as parkland inside Building 12, which I thought was incredibly, incredibly well done. And then another one that we've discussed here was the Las Cruces Bowling Alley Massacre. He's done a documentary on that one as well. So that is due to come out in February. I imagine what that will do is spark a lot of more conversation about this case. Hopefully it inspires Tinley Park Police Department to up the ante and release some more information. And I think it's also going to inspire an off the record or two where we continue the conversation about this horrific case. The public is reminded that the offender remains at large and should be considered armed and dangerous. Remember what we said. The profilers believe that he will turn on anyone who attempts to turn him in, may even result in violence or killing that person. So be very, very careful, but do not allow that to deter you from providing information. There is a $100,000 reward that has been established for information leading to the arrest of the offender. The Tinley Park Police Department has said the reward is not is not dependent upon conviction and they urge anyone with information to come forward and reminding you that that information will be kept confidential. The Tip Hotline is 708-444-5394 and there's also a tip email Lane Bryant L A N E B R y a n t.tipline park.org.

[C]

Thanks for telling your mother. Thanks for telling your brother. Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners?

[B]

Yes, we do, Captain. Thank you. This week we are recommending the Unknown Darkness. Profiling the Predators among Us, a former FBI profiler examines his most fascinating and haunting cases. This is by Greg McCrary, one of the profilers that we discussed here in this case today and it features some very fascinating cases. Once again, that title is the Unknown darkness by retired FBI profiler Greg McCrary. You don't have to write down that title right now. You can go to our website, truecrimegarage.com click on the recommended page and view all of our wonderful recommendations sitting there waiting for you to enjoy.

[C]

Make sure you subscribe to the podcast and make sure you tell a friend.

[B]

Until next week, be good, be kind, and don't.

[D]

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