B (2:39)

And a big we like you jib goes out to Vicki from Ohio, Illinois.

D (2:43)

And last but certainly not least, a shout out to Jamie Hoffman from Mulberry, Florida. Everyone we just mentioned, they went to true crimegarage.com and helped us fill up the fridge for this week's thank you for the donations. We love you.

C (2:57)

Yeah.

B (2:58)

Bwr. You win.

C (2:59)

Be a run.

B (3:01)

You need more True Crime Garage for your earballs. Well, subscribe to us through the Apple podcast subscription or check us out on patreon. It's only 5.95amonth. That's a cup of coffee at Starbucks and it's worth it. We'll be Banging on your earballs all month long with the bonus content. And that is enough of the business.

D (3:24)

All right, everybody gather around. Grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.

C (3:46)

You know, being a killer is this far. This. It's a step by step this far from aggravated robbery. You know what I mean? Killing somebody. Yeah, but I heard this wasn't just killing somebody, you know what I'm saying? I heard this wasn't just running up to him, shooting them and leaving. You know what I'm saying?

D (4:03)

No.

C (4:04)

So this is somebody that.

D (4:05)

This is a killer.

C (4:06)

This is a killer, you know, this

D (4:08)

is a bad person.

C (4:09)

You know, whoever did this is. Do you think whoever did this went there with the intent to kill somebody or do you think they were there looking for something and something went bad, it went too far? Depends what story is true? It depends if the story that I heard true. What'd you hear? I heard that they what? I hear all the details about that.

D (4:26)

I've heard they got shot in the

C (4:27)

back of the head. I heard they got strangled.

D (4:29)

I heard they got. Lisa's fingernails got ripped off.

C (4:32)

I heard. Yeah, I heard all Lisa's fingernails were ripped off.

D (4:36)

They tortured her.

C (4:37)

I heard her head was almost severed off. I heard they got one shot in the back.

D (4:41)

I heard a whole bunch of different

C (4:42)

stories, you know, I mean, if they

D (4:44)

really pulled her fingernails off and almost

C (4:46)

severed her head off, they would come there to kill him. You know what I'm saying?

D (4:49)

They were coming.

C (4:49)

All right, what if I told you that her fingernails weren't torn off and her head wasn't severed?

B (4:58)

So that's.

C (5:00)

Well, I'm not saying anything. I'm saying what and why did they get shot or did they get suffocated, you know what I'm saying? Well, the. What the. The coroner already reported how they died in the paper. Died of asphyxiation. That's. That's. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. So did you hear anything about anybody getting shot? Well, when it first happened, I heard they got execution style in the back of the head. You know what I'm saying? That's what. That's the first story I heard.

D (5:38)

Autopsies are performed on both of our victims. Young adults. 21 year old Johnny Clark, 20 year old Lisa Straub. The autopsies, Captain, were conducted by a Dr. Pandy. He's a deputy coroner and forensic pathologist with the Lucas County Coroner's office. The doctor notes their injuries and describes the manner in which the two had been bound. He declares the cause of death for both victims to be asphyxiation due to strangulation and suffocation. But he is not able to confirm a specific time of death, nor the order in which they died. Evidence is also collected from items of clothing that is worn by our two victims. And of note, Captain, we have DNA that is found on Johnny's sweatpants. Pandy states that Lisa's toxicology report showed that she had therapeutic levels of Vicodin and Percocet in her system, while Johnny's toxicology report showed he had minute levels of Percocet in his system and the presence of marijuana in his urine. There are sources out there, several, that report that both were known to have been casual and recreational drug users. This throws a whole nother wrench into our set of circumstances here and trying to determine who is responsible for killing these two young individuals.

B (7:09)

Yeah, because that could become a motive. And just to be clear to the listeners, the clip that you guys heard in the trailer today was a clip from an interrogation of Anthony Watson.

D (7:24)

That's correct.

B (7:25)

And he is basically telling law enforcement about a lot of the rumors that he heard. And obviously, in a very small town that is connected to a larger city, there's going to be a lot of rumors when it comes to a double homicide.

D (7:44)

Yeah. And he's, from my understanding, Captain, he's a little older than Johnny and may have been an associate of Johnny's. He's a bit of a thug, or at least has a very even violent, at times, police background. He does seem. We've watched the entirety of that interview, and he does seem rather forthcoming with the detective. Now, I don't want to go as far to say that he is a suspect or not a suspect, in my opinion. What I do know is he was a suspect in the opinions of the police detectives.

B (8:21)

Well, again, when you have an autopsy that shows that these individuals were drug users, that creates a whole other level of possible motives, because people that do use drugs sometimes purchase large amounts of drugs. And so then when you have a situation where you have evidence or possible evidence that somebody goes into this house and kills these two individuals but is clearly looking for something.

D (8:53)

Clearly. And that becomes another issue for the investigation, because as we touched on yesterday and talked about, there was that rumor that was going around within some of these social circles that Johnny had either bragged that there was a safe in the Straub family home that may have contained large amounts of cash.

B (9:17)

Right.

D (9:17)

And then the other version of that same rumor is that the Strobs had a lot of Money. Okay, so look, if we're going to bring drugs into this, I want to be clear about something here. And this. You can test this theory all day and night if you want, come at me if you will. But here's the deal. When drug addicts are involved, they, a lot of them, some of them, the violent ones, will do anything and go by any means necessary to get those drugs. Drugs take top priority for some of these individuals. Over money. Number one. Right, Number one. And number two, priority for that type of. Look, we're not talking about everybody. We're not talking about all drug addicts. We're talking about a very specific small sample size of these individuals. Violent individuals, most of them with police backgrounds, with a record, with a history of violence, those individuals. What we're talking about here is priority number one. And just like the captain pointed out, priority over your life and my life. Priority number one is drugs.

B (10:26)

Yeah.

D (10:26)

Priority number two is money. Why is money priority number two?

B (10:30)

Because they can get drugs.

D (10:32)

They're going to use it to get drugs. And how do we know that priority number two is money? Because they always trade money for drugs. So the thing here is now you got to wonder if they are recreational users. Do we have a couple of other possible motives? One, did somebody believe that they could find a large quantity of drugs inside the home? I don't think that there's anything in Johnny's background or Lisa's background to suggest that people would expect to find large quantities of drugs in a home that doesn't even belong to either of these individuals. It belongs to Lisa Straub's parents.

B (11:07)

No, I understand that, but I. The reason why I wanted to be clear on where this audio clip was coming from and to point out rumors. Lisa's family has a lot of money. Play the telephone game that turns into, oh, yeah, I bet they have a safe with a bunch of money that turns into somebody thinking that's fact or, hey, you know, I heard Johnny and Lisa were going to have some people over on Saturday night, so they bought a lot of drugs for their party. I mean, it's not that hard for these stupid rumors in a small town to get started.

D (11:51)

Well, and one thing I want to be clear of, too, is one thing that we're going to see as we get further into the suspects and to the. Where the investigation and evidence starts to direct law enforcement is to Toledo, not to Holland. Okay? And to some of the people in Toledo, Holland is considered upper class. Right. And like you're pointing out here, Captain, is when you Take somebody from lower class and you put them inside the home or tell them about this home of Lisa Straub's parents who are doing well for themselves. They go, oh, yeah, they got money. Yeah, I've seen their house. Or, oh, I've heard about it. They got money. And it doesn't take a whole lot to imply that to somebody that comes from another side of the tracks. And what we're going to consistently see in this case, in this investigation, that most if not all of those suspects are going to come from that other side of the tracks, if you will. And so now what we have going on here, Captain, is we have two good kids. Look, Lisa didn't have any money. She works at TGI Fridays. Nothing wrong with that. I was a server. I was a bartender for a long time. Good job.

B (13:10)

Still sometimes serves people.

D (13:12)

I enjoy it. And Johnny was getting ready to go to school.

B (13:19)

Right.

D (13:20)

And I'm not, I'm unclear. He may have been between jobs at this time. School was going to be one of his main focus. And unfortunately, you know, when we have a funeral, it usually happens just days after one passes away. Johnny was supposed to start school to be a barber. He wanted to open up a barbershop and own a small business.

B (13:46)

Yeah.

D (13:46)

On that day that he was supposed to start school, instead it was his funeral. So that's how close he was to. We talk about advancing ourselves in life. That's how close he was. If you want to say he had a drug problem and you know Johnny, fine. I didn't know him. What. What the evidence tells me is exactly what's reported in by most of these sources. That he had a recreational use problem and that he may have been working his way out of it.

B (14:17)

Yeah. And I can't throw shade on anybody because, you know, I've had my vices in the past.

D (14:24)

Well, and their kids are 20 and 21.

B (14:26)

Yes. A lot of that time it's a experimental phase.

D (14:31)

I got about two and a half years that I can't even remember. And it happened in that same time period that we just talked about.

B (14:38)

Well, we remember because we all tell the stories.

D (14:40)

Yeah. I was like, like, like Joe Walsh for about two years. Two and a half years.

B (14:48)

Yeah, I got about 22 years. I can't remember. This is such a difficult case. I think some of it is because of the 911 calls. And you just feel so bad for the family and what they actually had to witness, because a lot of times the family doesn't actually witness the victims in the Victim state. And you have these two young kids on the verge of starting their adult lives. And like we said, the evidence as far as drug use is just. It could be experimental phase, but this phase was connecting them with, I think, the wrong type of people.

D (15:37)

Yes. People that they normally would not associate with.

B (15:41)

Right.

D (15:42)

And keep in mind, too, it's going to be persons when we say associate with, we're going to see one. One factor repeated over and over in this investigation at people that they looked at. These may not even been close friends with our victims. These were people that their associate on their social circle. Persons that were on the fringes of their social circle.

B (16:06)

Right.

D (16:07)

Are associates with the suspects. So let's attempt to go down the trail that we believe the detectives would have followed here. So Detective Kozak is going to be the lead investigator for much of this investigation. And of course, he's going to want to talk to Tiffany Williams. Right.

B (16:28)

So, yeah, because we have a red flag with the. With the mom saying, hey, look, this is. This is all strange and suspicious. And if the mom is suspicious of an individual, that's where you need to start. That's obviously also who they were planning on hanging out with. And they never met. They never made that connection that day.

D (16:50)

Correct. So. So when the detective sits down with Tiffany Williams, she describes going to her friend Zach's house to obtain some pills. And while there, she says she called Johnny at 1041. This is that call that we've discussed at length here. And this is, she says, for the purpose of affirming up their plans for that night, she states that Johnny picked up the phone, didn't say hello, says, bro, what are you doing? Or something to that effect. And then she says that the call drops, not necessarily drops, but Johnny hangs up, saying he would call her back. He does not call back. She tells the detective that she discussed this call with Zach. And we know the outcome of this situation. We know that when she receives no response, at some point, she and Zach drive out to Lisa's house. Now, how did they get in contact with Johnny's parents is what I'm going to want to know as the detective. And why do they go to reach out to Johnny's parents? They say it's because they were concerned and they couldn't get in touch with Johnny and Lisa. So what will we learn, Captain, is that Zach will reach out to an individual named Reuben Roiz. Now, Reuben, the reason why Zach wants to reach out to him is because he knows he and Tiffany know that Reuben is Johnny's best friend, like lifelong best friend.

B (18:22)

He might know one what's going on with Johnny. But if he doesn't know, he's going to know somebody that they can contact.

D (18:27)

Correct. So now we learn that Tiffany and Zach do not know or possess the ability to get in touch with Johnny's family. Now, Reuben says will tell police that Zach asked if they could pick him up and go to the Strob house with them. Now, Reuben says Reuben is. Is clean. Okay? Reuben, he's never had a drug problem. He doesn't have a police background, doesn't have a record, no history of violence. He says, look, when this dude calls me, I know that Zach is a problem. I know that he has a drug problem, and I don't really know the guy very well. So I wasn't willing to go anywhere with them in the middle of the night.

B (19:12)

Right?

D (19:13)

Yeah. I was concerned about my friend. And so then that is when Tiffany is forced to call Sharita because their first person they attempted to go to. Reuben does not want any involvement. Sharita, then, is the one that calls Johnny's parents. Okay? And again, remember, Sharita is more of. More a peer of Johnny's friends and people that would be of Johnny's age. She's much younger than Johnny's parents. Now, we have the parents at the scene, and all that's going on that we already are aware about. But we know that police, the authorities, took down Tiffany's information and Zach's contact information before allowing them to leave that night. The other thing here, Captain, is we've talked about the drugs. I want to circle back to something real quick. The detectives, when they start talking to Johnny and Lisa's inner circle and then expanding outward from there, that's when they, the police catch wind of this thought and this rumor that's going around that there was a safe or maybe a large sum of money kept at the Straub home.

B (20:26)

Right?

D (20:27)

So now we have police working with a theory that makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. A couple things. We can shrink our suspect pool very quickly here. There are things going on socially that are telling us that one, it's very likely that the perpetrators would have either known Johnny and or Lisa or would have known people that did know them. Because if we have people saying that Johnny bragged a couple of times or maybe just once about there being a safe or maybe the Straub's got a bunch of money, it was one of his friends that heard that, and they had to tell somebody else if it wasn't one of his inner circle that is responsible for what happened to these guys. With the Venmo debit card. A taco in one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking your rewards. Nice. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo stash on your favorite brands. When you pay with your Venmo debit card. From takeout to ride shares, entertainment and more, pick a bundle with your go tos and start earning cash back at those brands. Venmo stash bundle terms and exclusions apply. See terms@venmo me stashterms max $100 cash back per month. There's an SUV that turns the unthinkable into the unforgettable. The new Nissan Pathfinder. Built for big adventures and all that family chaos. It's powered by a strong V6 engine with a nine speed automatic transmission. Inside, it's rugged and capable, but still premium and tech forward with room for up to eight passengers. It's also available with seven passenger seating and second row captain's chairs with massive hauling capability. Now you can bring all the gear you and your family need for unforgettable Adventures. The new V6 Nissan Pathfinder. Power your adventure. Thy ticket, lady Jennifer of Coolidge.

C (22:31)

Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card. They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs? Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Getth with the times. With the times.

D (22:46)

You're playing the loot. Yeah. And it sounds pretty good, right? Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.

B (23:10)

All right, we are back. Cheers, mates. To the windows, to the walls. Onward and upward.

D (23:16)

Tall cans in the air. Cheers to the people in the back.

B (23:18)

So when you have a homicide, of course you want to look at the inner circle, but here we have something different. We have Johnny and Lisa are supposed to meet up with somebody. To me, if I'm law enforcement, that's the first person that I'm questioning. And we don't know what type of person this is. And like we said, if they're in an experimental phase with drugs, they're in an experimental phase with friends. And who is this? Tiffany. And here's a little clip of her they're calling an interrogation, but a questioning by law enforcement. I think this kind of shows you a little glimpse of who she is and heard her recall of the events that night.

C (24:04)

I want to go over that conversation again in detail.

A (24:07)

That's fine.

C (24:08)

All right, you call Johnny on the phone, how many times did it ring, you think?

A (24:15)

Once or twice.

D (24:16)

Okay.

C (24:17)

One to two rings, picked it right up. You know it was Johnny.

A (24:23)

Yes.

C (24:26)

How long of a pause before he said anything?

A (24:28)

He didn't say hello.

C (24:30)

All right, so he never said anything.

A (24:31)

Never said hello, so.

C (24:33)

All right, so you're on the phone. How long before you hear anything on the phone did you. What did you like?

A (24:40)

As soon as he picked it up, he didn't say hello to me, but he was like, bro, what are you doing?

C (24:45)

All right, I want to get this down again. Bro, what are you doing?

B (24:51)

Okay.

A (24:53)

Okay. And he said that approximately three times.

D (24:57)

Okay.

C (24:58)

All right, let. Give me his voice. Was it, bro, what are you doing? Or, bro, what are you doing?

A (25:04)

Yeah, just like that.

C (25:05)

He sounded pissed?

A (25:07)

Yeah.

C (25:07)

Did he sound scared? No, he just sounded pissed.

A (25:11)

Just pissed? Yeah.

C (25:12)

All right, so you hear, bro, what are you doing? Three times, Johnny sounds pissed. All right, Then what he said, then

A (25:18)

the next thing he said was, who the hell are you?

C (25:27)

How many times?

D (25:29)

Once.

A (25:30)

And then that's when I heard the other person in the background, but I couldn't hear what he was saying.

C (25:38)

So you overheard a voice in the background? You're sure it was a guy?

A (25:43)

Positive it was a guy.

C (25:48)

Have you ever heard it before?

A (25:49)

No. Well, I really couldn't tell. You know what I mean?

C (25:53)

But okay. All right, so then what?

A (25:58)

Then he asked again, bro, what are you doing? After he said, whoever.

C (26:03)

After the three times he said it here, he said it again.

A (26:05)

Yeah. And that's when this guy was talking, so that's why I couldn't hear him, is because Johnny was saying, bro, what are you doing? Once again.

D (26:16)

All right.

C (26:17)

Did you hear anything in the background? Like a door closed, footsteps? It sounded like Johnny was. Did he sound pissed here again?

D (26:26)

Mm.

C (26:26)

Did he sound pissed here?

A (26:28)

Yeah.

C (26:28)

Did he sound like he was out of breath? No. Did he sound like he was scared or nervous?

A (26:34)

No.

C (26:35)

Did he sound like he knew them people?

A (26:37)

Mm. That's why I said, I think that whoever did it, he knew. Because, you know, if you knew John,

C (26:46)

how did he end the conversation with you?

A (26:48)

Tiff, I'm call you back.

C (26:49)

And I'm like, okay, now, not.

A (26:52)

He didn't give me a chance to talk or anything.

B (26:54)

Okay. He just hangs. He says he'll call you back.

D (26:57)

Okay.

B (26:57)

Which means he probably knows who's in the house. Okay, now you call who?

A (27:08)

I didn't call nobody.

C (27:10)

Who did you call to tell him that conversation with Johnny?

A (27:14)

Nobody. I just told Zach.

D (27:16)

Okay.

B (27:17)

How did Johnny's mom find out about the phone conversation.

A (27:21)

After I had drove out to their house and there was no response, I

C (27:25)

drove back to Lisa's house.

A (27:28)

Well, after I left Lisa's house, I drove back and I was like, well, maybe they're just ignoring us. We'll just drive around, look for him. And I called my friend Sharita to get Ruben's number, which is Johnny's best friend, so that I could get in contact. Well, see if Johnny could answer. If he would answer the phone to Reuben, and then Ruben didn't get an answer, then we can get a hold of the family and let the family know. Because I just thought maybe he was ignoring me.

C (27:55)

Why would you. Listen, listen, listen.

B (27:58)

Why with that conversation, would you let somebody's family know that, hey, something's wrong?

A (28:10)

I wasn't calling to let him know something was wrong. I was calling and letting him know, like, can you get him? Will he pick up the phone to you? Because, like, I. He told me he called me back. I didn't think nothing.

D (28:21)

Was it because you were concerned? Yes, I was very concerned about what was going on?

A (28:26)

Yeah, because it was like, no, I was not getting no response. Cause right after I heard that, I called Lisa's phone, and there was no pickup. And then I called her a couple more times. No answer. So I text her, like, are you okay? And she didn't answer. Then I kept calling Johnny's phone. Zach said he was doing the same also, and they wasn't picking up. So that's when I started calling, you know, his best friend to see if he would answer to his best friend. He was just ignoring us because he didn't want to share pills or. You know what I mean? That's what I thought all it was.

B (28:58)

Are you.

D (28:59)

That's very telling to me there, Captain. Here we have the telling.

B (29:03)

I think it's. It's utter. It's utter confusion to me.

D (29:08)

Thank you for saying that because that will prove a point that. That I have for all of the beautiful listeners out there. So there's three key elements to this portion of the discussion before we get to those three key elements here. And the three key elements to Tiffany Williams herself is one, a portion of the clip that we did not hear is because it's a rather lengthy clip, right? It's probably 20 to 30 minutes long total. And the part that we don't hear is that prior to going through this exchange that Tiffany Williams has said occurred between her and Johnny is that before the detectives get into the words of that conversation, the detective clearly is locking Tiffany Williams into a truth or fallacy by saying, your phone when you. You called Johnny. But he's clarifying, you called him not by means of a landline or Zach's phone or somebody else's phone, your phone. You called Johnny with your phone at 10:41. And she says, correct my phone. So the reason why we're locking her into that is because we are going to be able to pull those records and prove if that part of the story is right or not. Because we have a lot that seems to be riding on what this conversation was between Tiffany and Johnny. You hear them, the detectives trying to figure out, based off of Tiffany's words, if Johnny was upset, if he was pissed, if he was surprised, if he was scared, if he knew the individuals, if he didn't know the individuals.

C (30:51)

Right.

D (30:53)

But I want to keep in mind, and I know that I keep harping on the same idea here, that conversation, if it went down that way, only matters if it went down that way. We have Tiffany Williams, who I am incredibly suspicious of. And welcome to the party. Welcome to the club. There's a lot of people that are suspicious of her.

B (31:16)

Well, let's point out a couple obvious things. The cops are trying to get her to say that you're concerned because of the call that you heard. And she's not even smart enough to realize I need to keep going back to, well, I was concerned by his actions on that phone call. But she's more concerned that they're trying to do drugs and not include them in the drug usage.

D (31:51)

I think what the detectives are trying to point out and the corner that they're trying to back her into is, oh, you were so concerned about that call and what you say you heard on that call, but you don't act on that concern until two hours later. So it doesn't seem like you were really concerned about what you heard on that call. This going back to the same idea that I keep. I'm beating a dead horse here, Captain. We don't have Johnny to tell us what was said on that call. We only have Tiffany Williams who can tell us what was said on that call. I don't think any of that shit that she says happened on that call.

B (32:32)

I mean, and this shows you, though, like, the legs that somebody will go to. She is telling us. These are the lengths that we're. You're not answering your phone, you might be doing. We know you have some pills. You might be doing these pills without us. Well, who do we know that he might answer his phone for Call his best friend. And of course, the best friend thinks this whole interaction is fishy to begin with. It's. It's very strange.

D (33:09)

Well, I like that you point out that the, the. Her explanation when she's trying to explain her actions, you know, who did you call and when did you call them and why? You hear that toward the end of the clip, it's all very confusing and muddled. Correct?

B (33:27)

Yeah.

D (33:28)

You know why that is? Because it's easy to tell the truth. It's difficult to lie. And what's happened here is that clip. Our victims were killed January 30, January 31, without a doubt. Okay. That interview is taking place March 23. By this time, Tiffany Williams has explained the same story to Maite and Johnny's family multiple times. She's explained the story to the police and detectives multiple times. Why does she sound so damn confused there? Someone's going to say, nick, well, she's got a drug problem, Fine. But I'm going to point out here, it's difficult to lie. It's easy to tell the truth. She sounds confused here because she's trying to recall what she's told all these people along the way and keep her story straight. And now it's getting very difficult for her to do that now, three months later, or, sorry, now it's getting difficult for her to do this almost two months later.

B (34:34)

Well, if you go back to the calls to 911 when she's telling the story there, it's a lot of. You do that when you're trying to think of your next statement. If you made a phone call and you were really concerned and you went, okay, well, we got this weird phone call, and then I started calling him and he didn't answer the phone. So then I called his girlfriend and she didn't answer the phone. So we decided to go over there and we rang the doorbell and they didn't answer. So then we tried to call their phone again. I wasn't even there. And I can tell you the story without going. So I think even back to the day in question, you can almost hear her trying to think of what the best thing to say is.

D (35:31)

Well, she's getting caught there, and the police almost had her, the detectives almost had her. When she starts getting confused and she starts sounding confused in her delivery as to what she did and why they're asking her specifically. Well, why did you reach out to the family? Well, because I was concerned about that phone call. Okay, well, that doesn't make sense because you waited two hours oh, well, I knew that they could get in touch with them. I wasn't so concerned. I just knew that they could get in touch with them. And I was. I thought maybe they were just avoiding us or not answering our calls or maybe they didn't want to share pills with us. So now she's got a different explanation that has. That has no meaning on the prior question or her prior explanation. And the. The reason why this is all key is because of something that she said way too early. She done fucked up the first 911 call by Maite to the police. What does Maite say to the police? I got this call from Tiffany, some girl named Tiffany, and she's saying that there was this weird phone call that she had with my son, and. And it sounded like people were breaking into the house. And she's calling us and saying that she's concerned and that she went over there and she saw the house was ransacked. And I'm worried that my son has been abducted or something worse has happened during the course of a robbery. Tiffany said to Maite that she went to the home and saw that it had been ransacked. That cannot be.

B (37:00)

This is a big problem.

D (37:02)

This is a big problem for Tiffany, and here's why. Because what do we know? These are facts, man. These, like you people out there can. Can question a lot of what I say sometimes because some of it is

B (37:13)

because you're an idiot.

D (37:15)

Speculation. Thanks, Captain. Right, but the thing here is, this is not speculation. These are. These are words. That's why we're playing these recordings for you, because they're not the colonel's words. My taste says to the 911 operator, this is before she goes to the scene, before her husband's at the scene, that this girl says that she was at the scene and saw that the place was ransacked, and that's why she called, that she was concerned. The problem with that portion of her story is guess who else went to that scene? The police?

B (37:48)

Yeah.

D (37:48)

They did not see any reason for probable cause. They did not see that the home had been ransacked. Maite and her husband went to the scene, into the home, and what did they say? All the blinds were closed. We couldn't see in. We only kicked down the door once we hoisted somebody up into the air to see into that window.

B (38:11)

And I wish there was photographic evidence, and maybe there is by law enforcement, but like you said, this is a big. This is a big deal because the

D (38:22)

police walked all the way around the home, attempted to look in every window. Guess what? They couldn't see anything because all the blinds were closed.

B (38:28)

Right. The first question of that night should be, well, how did you see this? How did you see something that we're not able to see?

D (38:38)

Johnny's father walked around that, the entirety of that home, and looked in every window. Couldn't see everything because anything because the blinds were closed. My Tay walked around the home, looked in every window, couldn't see anything because the blinds were closed. Yet this woman who claims she saw that the home had been ransacked, and that's why she's concerned, and that's why she reached out to the parents, because she's concerned for the safety of her friends. The only way she would have known at that time, when she contacted the parents that the home had been ransacked. There's only two explanations. Either she was in the home and had seen that the outcome.

B (39:17)

Yeah.

D (39:17)

Or that somebody that was in the home had told her and gave her that knowledge. There's no other way around it. It's one of those two situations. Which means she was either there when the attack happened, or she knows who did the attack.

B (39:33)

Well, like you said, we have cell phone technology. Shouldn't they be able to say, well, if she actually took this call from Johnny at what you say, 1041, she

D (39:44)

made the call, remember? That's why they purposely cleared that up.

C (39:47)

Right, right.

D (39:48)

From your phone. You called him at 1041. Right.

B (39:51)

Because couldn't they do cell phone ping technology and put her at that residence at that time?

D (39:59)

She doesn't have to be there to be involved.

B (40:02)

True. Yeah.

D (40:04)

Again, she could have had knowledge. Somebody that was inside the home could have told her. Yeah, we ransacked the place.

B (40:10)

Yeah.

D (40:10)

Yeah, we ripped up the place, we killed them, and we tore the place to pieces.

B (40:15)

Yeah, because we were looking for drugs or we were looking for money.

D (40:18)

What do you mean, you guys didn't find anything? We looked everywhere. We looked everywhere. We tore the place apart. So, yeah, they can do cell phone technology. And here's the next question that people go. They go, well, then why the hell would she alert the family? Right? That doesn't make any sense.

B (40:37)

No, it doesn't make any sense.

D (40:38)

It actually does make complete sense. They didn't try to alert the family. They wanted to alert Reuben. Right, Johnny's friend, Remember? They offered to pick up Reuben and bring him back to the Straub home. They wanted to alert somebody, but they had to. They had to alert somebody. And here's the thing. Reuben, too smart, says you know what? I'm not going over there. I don't know you guys very well. You got a drug problem. I'm not getting in a car with you.

B (41:04)

But he's concerned enough for his friend.

D (41:08)

They contact the parents? They had to contact someone. Why? Why would they have to contact someone? Because of the cell phone records. Right? Right. They know. They figured it out two hours too damn late. Wait a second. The police are probably going to want to know why I called Johnny, who ends up dead. Now, I've got to explain that away. Oh, well, I couldn't have been involved because when I called him, there was already something going on.

B (41:41)

Yeah. Or also the fact that if they had plans at all to meet up, then who did Johnny tell that we're going to meet up with Tiffany? Who did Lisa possibly tell?

D (41:57)

Right. They have to be able to explain away the plan, the possible plans, if there ever were any.

B (42:02)

Right.

D (42:03)

Because again, that's. We only have Tiffany to tell us that. But then on top of that, because according to Johnny's family, when they spoke to him, he said they had no plans for the night. They were going to go home, they were going to chill.

B (42:15)

Right.

D (42:16)

That could be true. Now, the thing here is, you're exactly right, Captain. If they had plans with Tiffany, now she's got to explain away why those plans didn't happen and why she could not have been involved.

B (42:28)

Right.

D (42:29)

And the way that she's trying to explain that away is alerting someone that, oh, by the way, when I talked to him at 10:41, he was. He was pissed, he was confused. There was somebody, like, breaking into the house right then and there.

B (42:42)

Yeah.

D (42:44)

So her own words means that she has knowledge of. She has knowledge of these crimes that she was privy to before the police were, before Johnny's parents were, before anybody else that arrived on that scene. And the only way that she could have had that knowledge was to either A, be there or B, somebody gave her that knowledge.

B (43:14)

But we have this messy crime scene. I mean, this. I mean, this is what's so horrible, like I said, is most of the time the victim's family do not see the victims in the victim state. But we have DNA evidence.

D (43:34)

Yeah, we have plenty of DNA evidence. So as mentioned, we had some that was found on Johnny's sweatpants. And they also collected DNA from the cell phones. So what happens at some point here, Captain? The perpetrators, they ripped the batteries from Lisa and Johnny's cell phones. And I believe they even broke the cell phones themselves. And the cell phones were recovered different Sources either on top of the victims or nearby the victims.

B (44:02)

Right.

D (44:03)

And so this act of breaking and removing the battery puts perpetrator DNA on those cell phones, also on the sweatpants. Here's what I'm. I would love to know. And we talked about this when we, we talked about Richard Allen's vehicle, the suspect in the Delphi case, being confiscated and searching that vehicle. And we've talked about this plenty of times. I love the logic that is applied to a crime scene by these technicians because guess what they have. This is a big house. They would have the whole house and every item that was ransacked, knocked to the floor, pulled out of drawers to check. You can't check every damn thing. So what do you do? You have to prioritize where you are going to be looking for fingerprints and DNA and blood. And what do we know about the crime scene? What does the crime scene tell us? Well, the crime scene is talking to the technicians and the crime scene says somebody either emptied Johnny's wallet or made sure that it was empty.

C (45:10)

Yeah.

D (45:11)

Where does one keep their wallet? In their pant pocket. So where will we one, where's one location that we will prioritize looking for physical evidence? Johnny's pants pockets.

B (45:25)

Well, think about that too, because even if you're wearing gloves that normally you have a space between, like, even if you're wearing long, like a long sleeve shirt, you have that space in between. And that would make contact if you're reaching into somebody's pocket.

D (45:43)

Correct. And where on his pants do they find DNA evidence? His pants pocket. So very likely somebody reached in and removed his wallet and then took money out of it or made sure that it was empty. Right. And what's, what's interesting here too, again, the crime scene, what is it telling us? What is it telling the technicians and the investigators? We know there was a sign of a struggle. Johnny was a big guy, he was strong, he was a, he was a weightlifter, bodybuilder. At one time. He put up a struggle. We know that the crime scene shows a struggle at the, at the door going from the garage into the home. It's believed that that's where Johnny tried to fend off the intruder. Intruders? Well, the intruder may have injured themselves during the course of that scuffle.

B (46:32)

Right.

D (46:34)

It is blood. It's blood evidence that they find that will give them the DNA evidence in Johnny's pocket. So as you said, perpetrator reached in, pulled out that wallet and left a little something of them behind unknowingly. At the crime scene, the other location that they find DNA evidence is on the duct tape, which is. Which is often a place that people will find DNA evidence. And here's why. How many times have you witnessed a person for any number of reasons, you know, you're just out doing something, whatever. How they either have to tear the duct tape, cut it, or a lot of people stick the end in their mouth and use their teeth and tear it off.

B (47:19)

Right.

D (47:20)

That saliva is going to leave DNA evidence on that duct tape. So they find DNA on the duct tape, Johnny's pocket, and they also find it on the cigarette butt now of their suspects. And they talk to a lot of people here. Some of them agree to polygraphs, some don't. Some agree to a DNA swab, some don't. They end up collecting, I believe it's about two dozen DNA swabs from persons that they talk to. And again, not everybody was willing to consent to this. Two individuals that did not consent, in fact, two individuals that were not even on police's radar, get immediately pulled into this case. None of the DNA that they had collected matched that on the duct tape, the pants pocket or the cigarette butt. But on the cigarette butt, the Newport cigarette that was found at the crime scene near the door to the garage yielded two DNA donors. And both of those individuals had a criminal background. So they are already listed in codis.

B (48:33)

Right.

D (48:34)

When police check the DNA found at the scene against codis, it delivers them two prime suspects that they were unaware of. One Samuel Todd Williams and two, Cameo Pettaway. Well,

C (48:59)

What happened to you aside today? There's some things that Mr. Ross and I would like to talk to you about. Okay. We ran some names by you. You've been advised of your rights and stuff. You're saying you've never been to that house? Can we get to the. To the meat of what we want to talk to you about then?

D (49:29)

Go ahead.

C (49:30)

We little problem at that house last winter. Did you hear anything about it?

B (49:35)

No.

C (49:37)

Okay. A couple kids were found dead in

B (49:40)

there,

C (49:47)

Young adult, and they were probably the victim of a burglary. They got bum rushed in the place. You know what we're talking about? Bum rushed? Somebody just crashes in on you and maybe robs you or burglarizes your house. I mean, you know what we're talking about. So that's what happened to these young couples. So how did my name get brought up in this science? I don't understand how. Well, remember when these guys respond to a scene and they go in there, they're A criminal justice major, right? Cording off the area. Everybody that is involved in that scene goes in, they start collecting evidence, okay? These guys collected a lot of evidence and they had a lot of evidence tested for DNA. Do you know what DNA is? Okay, explain to us what you think DNA is.

B (50:54)

You.

C (50:55)

Saliva, whatever. Saliva, poop, piss, skin cells, hair follicles, all that stuff. Stuff gives up an individual's individual characteristics. You buy that based on what you've been taught in school? I haven't. I'm only doing my, like, basic courses right now. I'm not doing. They will tell you soon enough that DNA is like fingerprints, you know? There's no two fingerprints that are alike. There's no two DNAs that are alike. Each of us have a separate one. If they tested Jeff here, his had come up with a certain row of numbers that mean something to the scientists. They tested you, you'd come up with a different bunch of numbers in a row that means something to the scientist. But yours would be like Jeff's. If I spit on a cotton swab and they did, my DNA numbers would come up. Mine would not be like yours. Mine would not be like his. We're all separate. Just like if they took our fingerprints tonight, your fingerprint would be different from Jeff's. Be different from mine. Mine would be different from him and from you. You understand where we're going? It's unique to the individual. There's no two DNAs that are alike. Totally understand it. Okay.

B (52:19)

Okay.

C (52:20)

Now, when these guys collected a lot of pieces of evidence in there that were involved in this crime, they sent down to Bowling Green for testing, okay? And items in that scene came back with your DNA on it. Okay? How do you explain that? How can we explain that? I have no idea. You've never been to that house. You don't know those kids. I don't know them people. And your DNA's in that house? I don't know. You have no idea? No. Do you understand where that puts you? Do you understand where this is going?

D (53:24)

If you are a member of law enforcement and would like for True Crime Garage to feature a case from your jurisdiction, please get to our website, truecrimegarage.com and find our contact information and reach out to us immediately to.

B (53:37)

Thank you guys so much for joining us here in the garage and sharing this case on social media. Until tomorrow, be good, be kind, and don't win.

D (54:23)

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