405: Web of Death: California Dreaming

Summary

True Crime Obsessed – Episode 405: Web of Death: California Dreaming

Release Date: December 5, 2024

In this compelling episode of True Crime Obsessed, hosts Julian Benzovalli and Patrick Hines delve deep into the harrowing true crime story featured in Web of Death's fourth episode, titled “California Dreaming.” This detailed, long-form summary captures the intricate discussions, emotional narratives, and significant breakthroughs surrounding the case of two unidentified Indigenous women whose lives were brutally taken in 1980.

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1. Introduction to the Case

The episode opens with the hosts introducing the focus of their discussion: a cold case from 1980 involving two young Indigenous women found murdered in Ventura and Kern counties, California. These victims were initially identified only as Jane Doe, Kern County Number 5, and Jane Doe Ventura.

2. The Initial Discovery and Investigation

In July 1980, law enforcement discovered the first victim in an almond orchard off Highway 99. Detective Steve Rhodes, a seasoned cold case detective from the Ventura County District Attorney's office, emphasizes his unwavering dedication to seeking justice for victims:

"We need to complete an identification and then find family members and notify them about the death." – Violet Suze [04:22]

The autopsy revealed that the woman had been stabbed over 28 times, with a blood alcohol level of 0.3, indicating extreme intoxication. Despite meticulous evidence collection, including a beer bottle, a pack of cigarettes, and tire tracks, the lack of DNA technology in the 1980s rendered the case nearly unsolvable.

3. Violet Suze’s Quest for Justice

Violet Suze, a central figure in this narrative, shares her personal connection to the case. Her aunt, Shirley, went missing at a young age, prompting Violet to vow to find her. However, systemic neglect and racial biases hindered her efforts:

"We're just told, oh, probably just another dead Indian. That's what I was told. We were looked at as if we were nothing." – Violet Suze [14:21]

The hosts highlight the profound impact of intergenerational trauma stemming from the residential school system, which forcibly removed Indigenous children from their families and eroded their cultural identities.

4. Advancements in DNA Technology and the DNA Doe Project

Fast forward to the early 2000s, advancements in DNA technology and the establishment of the DNA Doe Project revolutionize the investigation:

"You cannot dispute DNA evidence. You just can't." – Dawn Ratliff [02:06]

Detective Steve Rhodes capitalizes on these advancements, utilizing genetic genealogy to reopen and reinvestigate the 1980 cases. The implementation of Governor Schwarzenegger's Proposition 69 in 2005, mandating DNA collection from felons, significantly bolsters the ability to link evidence to suspects.

5. The Role of Genetic Genealogy

In collaboration with Gina Rather from the DNA Doe Project, the investigation leverages genetic genealogy to identify unknown victims and perpetrators. Gina explains the methodology:

"The founders realized that the same methods used to identify birth parents for adoptees could be used to identify John and Jane Does." – Gina Rather [38:01]

Through meticulous analysis and community outreach, particularly within Indigenous Facebook groups, the team uncovers crucial leads that ultimately lead to the identification of Shirley Suze as Jane Doe, Kern County Number 5.

6. Emotional Resolution and Continuing Efforts

The identification of Shirley brings immense emotional relief to Violet and her family:

"I kept my promise. I found her." – Violet Suze [48:24]

Despite this breakthrough, Jane Doe Ventura County remains unidentified, highlighting the ongoing challenges in closing all related cases. Detective Steve continues his unwavering commitment to identifying and bringing closure to the families of these victims.

7. Broader Implications and Continuing Struggles

The episode underscores the broader issue of Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW), emphasizing the systemic neglect and ongoing violence faced by Indigenous communities. Violet participates in marches advocating for awareness and systemic change, reflecting the persistent struggle for justice:

"We need people to be made aware that this is actually still happening." – Violet Suze [36:42]

8. Conclusion: The Human Impact of Cold Cases

Julian and Patrick reflect on the human aspect of these cases, acknowledging the emotional toll on families and the crucial role of determined investigators like Detective Steve and advocates like Violet Suze. The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the importance of persistence, technological advancements, and community support in uncovering the truth and delivering justice for victims who have long been forgotten.

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Notable Quotes:

• "You cannot dispute DNA evidence. You just can't." – Dawn Ratliff [02:06]
• "We're just told, oh, probably just another dead Indian. That's what I was told." – Violet Suze [14:21]
• "I kept my promise. I found her." – Violet Suze [48:24]
• "We need people to be made aware that this is actually still happening." – Violet Suze [36:42]

Key Moments:

• [02:06] Discussion on the irrefutability of DNA evidence.
• [14:21] Violet Suze articulates the systemic neglect faced by Indigenous communities.
• [38:01] Gina Rather explains the DNA Doe Project's mission and methodology.
• [48:24] Emotional confirmation of Shirley Suze's identification.

Conclusion:

“California Dreaming” is a testament to the relentless pursuit of justice against formidable odds. Through heartfelt storytelling and insightful analysis, True Crime Obsessed sheds light on the dark realities faced by Indigenous women and the heroes who tirelessly work to bring their stories to light. This episode not only illuminates the specifics of a cold case but also underscores the broader societal issues that perpetuate such tragedies.

Transcript

[Julian Benzovalli]

I just saw the Wicked movie and I love it. Are you holding space? I'm holding. I know by the time this comes out, it's gonna be weeks from now, everyone will have seen it. But I took Daisy and Steve on Sunday. I cried through the whole thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Great.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's like. Is Ariana Grander the greatest actress of our time? We don't know yet. The jury's out.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all I know.

[Julian Benzovalli]

So, yeah, she's so good.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm waiting to see it. Ashley and I are going. Don't you worry. We'll recap.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Hi, Julian Benzovalli. Hi.

[Patrick Hines]

Patrick Hines.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Fam. Hello. Welcome. Thank you for joining us. If you are on the Patreon or if you care to join the Patreon, our next drag bingo is next Wednesday, December 11th at 7pm Eastern.

[Patrick Hines]

Perfect.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's our Christmas bingo.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's great. Again, you can participate as much or as little as you like. You can have your camera on, off, whatever. Your chat is always on fire.

[Julian Benzovalli]

The chat, really, you gotta stay on top of that chat. Cause it's like really is on fire. Every month we do it, more and more people show up.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really fun.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It really is. Like the fun. Come and hang out, no press. It's so much fun.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so much fun.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's the best girl. What are we talking about today?

[Patrick Hines]

So this is our last bonus episode of the year. I can't believe we're here. This is that show Web of Death, which we like. It's very victim focused. This is episode four of Web of Death. It's called California Dreaming.

[Violet Suze]

When you make a promise to the old people, you don't break that promise. You have to live that promise. Find her, Bring her home. Those were my grandmother's instructions. Many have been lost, many have been murdered. It's still happening.

[Dawn Ratliff]

She'd been stabbed more than 28 times. She had no idea with her, no indication of who she was, where she came from.

[Julian Benzovalli]

There's someone's sister, possibly someone's wife. And there's gotta be people out there that knew.

[Violet Suze]

There really wasn't anyone that called to inquire about her. The case grew cold.

[Dawn Ratliff]

You cannot dispute DNA evidence. You just can't.

[Violet Suze]

I've been looking for 40 years. You don't give up. You can't stop. We couldn't imagine, you know, what happened. Where'd you go?

[Julian Benzovalli]

I love Web of Death because we get to see Bobby Ruff in the opening credits every time.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's the thumbnail of his episode, which is Kind of like, isn't it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

The N8 of you know what?

[Patrick Hines]

No shade to Bob. We love everything that they're doing over there. Truth and justice.

[Julian Benzovalli]

When you got a face like Bob, Ruff. Be the thumbnail. Just be the thumbnail you want to see in the world.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes. So we start with Steve Rose. He's a cold case detective at the Ventura County District Attorney's office. This guy, we'll get more into it later. He is 100% in this job for the victim.

[Patrick Hines]

He's an evidence guy, too?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes, he's an evidence guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Those two things go hand in hand. Going for. For the victims and the evidence. Like, he just. He gets very excited about solving shit.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes, well, we'll learn, too, that, like, he was a detective for forever. He retired for one day. They're like, steve, you want to come back and do cold cases? And he's like, yes, I do.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's go back to July 15, 1980. Yeah, we're at an almond orchard off Highway 99, and the cops remember it's 1980, and the cops find a body there.

[Dawn Ratliff]

They encountered a female, fully clothed, lying in the orchard. She had no idea with her, no indication of who she was, where she came from. Lying near her on the ground was a beer bottle and a pack of cigarettes, some tire tracks, and that was the extent of the evidence. Other than what was confined to her.

[Patrick Hines]

Body, the evidence is pretty limited as well.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah, they found a beer bottle near her. On the ground, they found a pack of cigarettes and some tire tracks. Now, if this were, say, the 2000s, we would know about DNA. We'd be able to collect a lot of DNA. Evidence is the 80s. They never even heard of DNA. So, like, really all they have are those three things. The beer bottle, pack of cigarettes, and some tire tracks.

[Patrick Hines]

So this woman is referred to as Jane Doe, Kern County Number 5.

[Julian Benzovalli]

They do an autopsy, and they see she was stabbed more than 28 times. She had a blood alcohol level of 0.3. The legal limit is 0.08. Like, I mean, it is. She was very, very, very intoxicated. And they say that she was sexually assaulted, obviously against her will.

[Patrick Hines]

Her sneakers were pristine white, so there's no blood on the tops of her sneakers. And Detective Steve, who's here now, he wasn't there initially in 1980, but he says based on this evidence, what he can tell, looking at it all those years later, is that she was stabbed lying down. She was killed elsewhere, brought to this location, and left there.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Like, it seems like she was passed out somewhere or something. And that she was stabbed while she was unconscious. And then she was brought to this orchard and, like, dumped.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So we meet Dawn Ratliff. She is amazing.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Can we talk about her for one second? Because she is me in this moment.

[Patrick Hines]

I love her.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I love her too. They make everybody in these documentaries do that thing where it's like, don, just. Can you walk down the hallway towards us, girl? And we're just gonna.

[Patrick Hines]

She looks, here's a folder. She's like, is there anything in it? Like, don't you know how valuable my.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Folders are and how valuable her fucking time is? She doesn't have time for this. She looks so uncomfortable doing this, like, walk down the hallway. I felt very seen in this moment.

[Patrick Hines]

I love her.

[Julian Benzovalli]

But she tells us that the cause of death was the multiple stab wounds. She says there were a lot of defensive wounds. But now the most important thing, once.

[Violet Suze]

Cause and manner of death is established.

[Patrick Hines]

One of the very first priorities is.

[Violet Suze]

For us to complete an identification and then to find family members and notify.

[Patrick Hines]

Them about the death.

[Violet Suze]

We fingerprinted and there were no prints on file.

[Julian Benzovalli]

They do her fingerprints, but there's no fingerprints on file. And dawn says she seems like somebody that somebody would miss. So they're expecting people to call looking for her, but nobody does because dawn.

[Patrick Hines]

Needs to identify this woman so she can notify her family. And they can't do that. No one was calling to ask about this woman. No one filed a report. And so dawn says, and so she remained Jane Doe, Kern county number five.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Like, what? What's up one through four? Are we gonna learn about them?

[Patrick Hines]

I know it's. I mean, it's so awful. And I'm repeating that it's Jane Doe, Kern County Number 5 for a reason, because we will get back to it. But that is how she is known. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julian Benzovalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

And we were able to do it because we had, like the self cooling sheets. We didn't even have to have the window open. It was genius.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah, well, so listen, we talk about the temperature, but we also got to Talk about how, like, you can get the sheet stink. You ever got the sheet stink? Not with Miracle Babe.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Violet Suze]

No.

[Julian Benzovalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

Thank you, Miracle Maid, for sponsoring this.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

Everybody in these episodes really cares about identifying these bodies and sending them back to their families for proper burials. It really occurred to me in watching this how many unidentified bodies there must be out there and how fucking sad that is.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And in this story specifically, because now we're going to Alberta, Canada, roughly 2,000 miles away. And we're in a town called Musquachees. And it is a First nation community and it's home to the Samson Cree nation.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. And so we meet a woman named Violet. Now she says her Cree name, but even in the episode, the closed captions didn't give it to us.

[Patrick Hines]

It says speaks indistinctly. Which I took great offense to. Yes. So, Tom, can we please hear Violet say her Cree name?

[Violet Suze]

Yeah, my name is Violet Suze. That's my English name. My cre name is Peacemuk Squill. Family is very important in our Community in any indigenous community, looking out for each other and checking in on each other. And I've been looking for my aunt since I was in my early 20s.

[Julian Benzovalli]

She's been looking for her aunt since her aunt went missing when Violet was in her early 20s.

[Patrick Hines]

So her aunt's English name is Shirley. And Shirley was freaking awesome. Yeah, she was lighthearted, she was gentle. And Violet had, like, really long hair. She still does. And Violet tells a story where she says that her hair was really long and, like, could kind of get unruly. And she only trusted Shirley to brush her hair.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Anybody who's got a young girl in their life knows that, like, I'm the one that Daisy will let brush her hair. She will not let Daddy Steve brush it. Or also she will let any woman brush it, and she will choose a woman over me, even if that woman has never brushed her hair before. Ever.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she gets it. Yeah, we know.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

But Violet says that Shirley always made her feel special.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And she really, really tells us about this. They had an incredibly strong connection. Violet says, I really, really love Shirley. It's like, you can tell they were very, very close. And they were in the middle of this close knit family. The two of them really found each other.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. There's this one picture of Shirley that we see a lot where she just looks so interesting.

[Violet Suze]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzovalli]

You know, and she was.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Violet tells us in the early 70s, in the community where they were living, there was a lot of poverty.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Violet says most people were venturing off reserve, like going to places like Vancouver so they can live and work in the city. And Aunt Shirley was one of those people.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Well, Shirley really wanted to help her mom financially. But we also learned that she was, like, really wanted to get off the reserve because she was a free spirit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that's how Violet describes her. But she wanted, like, to see the world. She wanted experiences. She wanted to make her own money. She wanted to do all of this. And Vancouver was where she went to do it all.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I gotta tell you, we see a little bit of Vancouver in this episode. It looks like a fucking awesome city.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it does.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Really Cool.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzovalli]

But we also learned that Shirley, she was meticulous about staying in touch with her family. So she would send cards and letters to her mother all the time.

[Violet Suze]

I'm pretty sure it was December of 79 that my grandmother didn't receive a Christmas card. March of 1980, she didn't receive her birthday card. And that's when she said, something's going on, something's wrong.

[Julian Benzovalli]

That's when Shirley's mom knew something was wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Now, that happens in 1980. By 1981, the family starts looking for Shirley. And the grandmother of this family, Violet, explains that this was almost like a directive. Like, the grandmother was like, you go find her and promise to bring her home.

[Julian Benzovalli]

The other thing that Violet tells us is that the grandmother was the one that was saying, go out and find her.

[Violet Suze]

And.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And the grandmother, being the matriarch of the family, she says, when you make a promise to somebody like that in our community, you fulfill that promise.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So there was a lot of extra pressure on Violet to sort of like, do right by her grandmother as well.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah, exactly. And so now we're back with Detective Steven. This is where we learned that he became a detective in his youth, and he worked property crimes, and he moved into homicide. And this is where he tells us that, like, I retired for one afternoon. I was home drinking lemonade. They asked me if I wanted to come back and work cold cases. He says, yes.

[Dawn Ratliff]

I enjoy a good problem. I enjoy solving the problem. I specifically enjoy looking out for our victims. They've been wronged. Someone needs to speak for them. And that's what I choose to do.

[Patrick Hines]

I love a good problem, but what I really extra love is solving that problem. Yes.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Because there are those of us who are never gonna retire. I think Steve is a worker. I think he wants to be busy all the time. I think he really does, like, believe he wants to do the things for the victims. And I just think if you're a certain kind of person and you work homicides, like, I bet that he was the kind of homicide detective that got really close to the families. Well.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause he. He says, like, he loves problems. He loves solving them. But more than all of that, he says, and I mostly love being the person who looks out for the victims, because the victims have been wronged, someone needs to speak for them. And he says, and that's what I chose to do.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I'm like, this is great. But he's in California. We were just with Violet 2,000 miles away.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

30, 40 years later.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. This episode, I guess this is a good place to talk about it. It's shot very interestingly because we are gonna start to watch the case get solved before Steve, the detective, does. So it's one of those things where it's like they were filming these, like, at the. Like, they were filming Violet and her family and Steve and the investigation. And it was like we knew more information than Steve did at certain points. And I was like, wow. Like, I thought that was so interesting, the way they filmed this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And we're going back in time. So remember, our first Jane doe was found July 1980. Now, three days after the cops find the body of Jane Doe, Kern county number five.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

They find another body, another woman. It's the middle of the afternoon, and this woman's body is in the parking lot of Westlake High School.

[Julian Benzovalli]

This body is found in Ventura county, which is about two and a half hours from Kearns county, where our first Jane Doe was found three days before.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And there are a lot of similarities here. No purse, no id, Nothing to identify her, and many, many stab wounds.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. And so, like, the investigators are saying, like, all they could do. Again, it's 1980. There's no DNA. All they can really do for, like, evidence gathering is interview people who had been attending a football game nearby and, like, take meticulous pictures of the crime scene.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so this woman is known as Jane Doe Ventura. No fingerprints, nothing in the system. Like, again, no missing persons reports. It's the exact same thing as the other murder, which only happen. Happened three days ago.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. And this Jane do had been stabbed 13 times. She was three months pregnant, and she had also been raped.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, back with Violet in Canada, and she says, you know, in 1981, they finally went to the cops, and here's why they didn't do so earlier.

[Violet Suze]

We're just told, oh, probably just another dead Indian. Just another dead Indian. That's what I was told. We were looked at as if we were nothing. You know, that's when I learned early on in our search that they were not going to help us.

[Patrick Hines]

They looked at me like I was nothing. They wouldn't help me. They didn't give a shit.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I just. I can't make it make. We say this all the time, but, like, officer, why did you go to work that day? Why did you decide to become a cop?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzovalli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I do. I want to say something. I want to point something out here. During this interview, Violet is holding an eagle feather. And I looked it up, and the eagle is a very, very powerful creature. Native cultures, but especially in Kree culture, which Violet is. And it's seen as a symbol of power and strength, and it is believed to have a direct connection to the Creator or Great Spirit. The eagles are seen as messengers. So it's really, really important and powerful for Violet to be prominently holding this eagle feather while she's talking to the camera and telling the Story about her journey, because especially it struck me while she's saying, like, I had one conversation with the cops, and I was like, oh, I'm on my own here. And then we get the shot of her really prominently holding this enormous feather. And I was, what is the significance of that? And I thought it was really beautiful.

[Julian Benzovalli]

So Violet is saying after this conversation with the cops, like, it's clear that it was gonna be up to her to keep her promise to her grandmother. And she says, you know, that her and her Aunt Belle would go searching. She said as long as we had money for gas, food and lodging, we would set off and they would drive. Because, remember, they thought that Aunt Shirley lived in Vancouver, so they would go searching in Vancouver. They would drive the 12 hours to Vancouver straight without sleeping, because the less.

[Violet Suze]

Time you spend in a motel, the more time be looking. Right. First time, you know, there was that excitement of, oh, we'll find her. You know, we can do this. And after the first trip, you know, you start realizing, like, oh, my goodness.

[Patrick Hines]

But it was really overwhelming because they're like, where do we start? Vancouver's big. Who do we talk to? It's a huge city. And they were always looking for other indigenous people to speak to. And it was great for them, like, when they found other Cree, because they could speak in their own language and ask more detailed questions. Because, remember, a lot of people from Violet's home community were going to Vancouver.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's so interesting, too, because we're with Violet in the car. She's describing, like, how she felt on that first trip where she's like, we were in the car. We were so gung ho. We're gonna get there. We're gonna find her. And then, like, you see the city of Vancouver, and you're like. Like, literally, you think about if it was your own kid, like, where. Who do you.

[Patrick Hines]

Where do you park? Like, what do you. Where do you start?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Do you know the cops aren't gonna help you? She's like, we wanted to look in every alley and down every. Like, where do you. It's such an overwhelming task because I guess they didn't know where Shirley had been working. They didn't know if she had any friends where living.

[Patrick Hines]

And her last known address was a year ago. Yeah, you know, so it was just. It was a huge task. On top of the fact that Violet just says, again, like, I. We couldn't disappoint our grandmother, right? Like, we couldn't let her down. And we disappoint. And she says, we disappointed her so many times because they'd come back and after driving 12 hours, they're like, what'd you find? And Violet has to be the one to say nothing.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And then she would describe, like, the grandmother, like, going into a room and turning off the lights and just sitting in the dark. And she's like, I know. She was crying, of course. I mean, like, how lonely must that feel to be like, no, the authorities aren't going to help us. We're doing this on our own. This old woman is like, sitting in a room sobbing because nobody can. I mean, it's awful.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Travel down the road back again, girl.

[Julian Benzovalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Now back with Detective Steve. He freaking loves DNA. Oh, my God. Does he love it? He loves it. And he says, like, if there is a cold case that has anything that can be tested for DNA, he's like, give me it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's mine.

[Patrick Hines]

It's mine. But remember in 1980, there was no DNA, but now there is, right?

[Julian Benzovalli]

And he's saying to the camera people in the room, he's like, we're sitting here right now.

[Dawn Ratliff]

We're dropping DNA all over the room. You leave, I can come in here and vacuum all this up now and identify you for me. When I review a cold case, if there's anything that is remotely DNA, I'm gonna take the case. You cannot dispute DNA evidence. You just can't.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I could vacuum it all up. I could tell you all your blood types. I could tell everything about you.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't fuck with me, fellas.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Don't fuck with me, fellas.

[Patrick Hines]

We get that little. And I'm like, okay, there's DNA is going to be major in this case. Because now we jump again, it's the early 2000s, and Violet is looking for her Aunt Shirley online. Because, again, just like DNA, like, this wasn't really a thing in the 80s. So now we have these two stories being told concurrently of Violet using stuff that wasn't available in the 80s, and Detective Steve also using resources that weren't available in the 80s.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And Violet's also saying, unless you were a cop and you had access to their law enforcement websites, there really wasn't much to go on. You could look for obituaries, but, like, this was before Facebook. Remember Facebook was like, 2004. So at the beginning of her search, like, once again, it's like going to the city of Vancouver, being like, I don't even know where to start. Like, what do you do?

[Patrick Hines]

And she also has no access. Like, she's just like a civilian. Like, she doesn't have access to these case files.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Violet explains, because we meet her daughter, Justice.

[Julian Benzovalli]

What a great. Like, what a great name.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. And like, of course, Violet. Yeah, it's just, like, so beautiful. But Violet explains, like, indigenous people are often, quote, shoved over to the side.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So in 2005, Arnold Schwarzenegger, I don't know if you guys remember this. He was the guy, governor of California for a time, and he signs a bill that basically says Proposition 69. California takes the mandatory collection of every convicted felon's DNA. There's over a million DNA kits in the California database.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And in January of next year, they're.

[Patrick Hines]

Going to take the DNA of everybody.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Arrested for a felony.

[Patrick Hines]

They solve four to five unsolved cases a day in California because of Governor Schwarzenegger's bill.

[Julian Benzovalli]

California, they say, are solving four to five cold cases a day because of this.

[Patrick Hines]

So if you're arrested for a felony, you have to give your DNA. And this DNA goes into this massive database.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So in 2012, a hit comes back for Detective Steve, because remember, 2012, he was retired for a day. And now they're like, can you help us with this cold case from 1980? And he's like, hell, yeah. Yeah, love a problem. Love DNA. Like, I want to help victims. Let's do this.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Because remember, so with Ventura Jane Doe, they submitted her pants, her underwear, her fingernails, all for DNA profiling. And they uploaded to that national database. And now because of what Schwarzenegger did in California. There's a hit.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's 2012, and there's a match to both crime scenes.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes. And it's the same guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Jane Doe Kern County Number 5, and Jane Doe Ventura. And his name is Wilson Chuist. He's a piece of shit.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But now Detective Steve is like, okay, now I'm working both of these cases at the same time because this piece of shit's DNA is on both of them.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Like, okay, and this guy Chuist, he's currently in prison for being a serial rapist. And both of these victims had been raped. It's his DNA on both of their bodies.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? So Detective Steve gets Arnie Aviles from the Sheriff's department, and they go talk to this piece of shit. And we don't know why he says this, but the guy walks in and Detective Steve goes, hey, I'm Steve Rhodes. Remember me?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, what? And we don't get the backstory on how and when they've met or, like, what that case was, but he says, remember me?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Also, he, like, Joe us walks in, and Steve has to be like, how's it going? How do you know?

[Patrick Hines]

They're, like, trying to build rapport.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so they're showing him these photos of crimes that they know he didn't commit.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because they're doing this on purpose to get the conversation.

[Julian Benzovalli]

They're letting him tell them that he didn't do it so they can show him that they believe him because they already know that he didn't.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like. They want him to think he's running the show.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So they start asking him about Jane Doe Ventura, and this guy won't even look at the photo. And he's like, did you say by Highway 101? Like, I don't even know where that is.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we know that's a lie. And Detective Steve is over at Then. And he's over it now. Yeah, because he explains to us. Let me tell you something about this piece of Wilson chest.

[Dawn Ratliff]

Lived his. His entire adult life in the San Fernando Valley. You cannot go from one end of the San Fernando Valley at the other end without driving on the 101 freeway. You just can't. So that's a lie. I need to get the truth better. I need to get a lie. Prove the truth. But I can really prove a lie.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a lie. And he goes, you know what's even better than the truth? A lie.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And you know what's even better than that? Another lie. He's a lie. I could say that's a lie. Can I prove that you were there? I don't know. But when I know you're full of shit, I could say you're lying. And here's why.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And the thing is, they can prove that he's. So he starts. Steve is now playing bad cop, and he's. He's saying to the guy, he's like, we know you did this. We know you did this to her. We have your DNA. It's in both of these women. And he's like, not me. Not my DNA. And I found this so enraging.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, yes, it is. Shut up. Right?

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's been a whole episode of them saying, like, you can't argue with DNA. And now this fucking guy's arguing with D. He's like, it's not mine. It's not mine.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, you can try to argue, but you can't.

[Julian Benzovalli]

But you can't.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't. And so. But the point is, they're kind of like. At this point, they're like, we don't. We know that you did it. We're not trying to prove that. Who are they?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes. Because now, where did you find them? How did they get here? Their family's looking for them in fucking Vancouver.

[Patrick Hines]

We're here for the victims and their stories. So, like, we just want to know what happened. We know you did it. That's not our issue here. We know that for a fact. What did you do? Who are they? Because we have work to do.

[Julian Benzovalli]

He just flat refuses to acknowledge having anything to do with it. And so, like, I just made the note. So a few days later, Steve says, I went down to the jail and arrested him for both murders.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, he's already in custody and he's arrested again.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So there's a press conference, though, and now they have composites of both Jane does and they're on the news now. To be clear, this is all happening in 2012, but the murders took place in 1980.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So now we're back with Violet and her daughter justice, and they're telling us about these fucking residential schools, which Connie Walker talked a lot about in her episode of Let the Women. Yes, they're horrifying.

[Violet Suze]

Violet is saying the residential school was to take the Indian out of the child. And it started in the late 1800s right up to 1996. So that's like a whole century of removing children from the traditional home. And so there was a great disconnect.

[Patrick Hines]

Try to make Them as white as possible and strip them of their language and everything else and be incredibly abusive in every sense of the word.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And this lasted until 1996? Yes, like, from the late 1800s to 1996. And Violet says that's a whole century of removing children from their homes and removing them from their culture.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so, like, it was. There's a lot sexual abuse and psychological abuse and physical abuse. And then a lot of people who went to these schools would then turn to drugs and. Or alcohol to sort of cope with what happened. Now, all of. All of this, the abuse in the schools, what happened afterwards has generational effects because we're here with Violet, and we're here with our daughter Justice. And Violet's like, my mom went to one of those schools, and because of her trauma, her mother wasn't really affectionate with her. And her mom was dealing with ptsd, but not dealing with it. She just had it. And so no one. You know, of course this affects Violet. And then Violet went to a residential school, and she says, thankfully, her father sent her to live with her grandparents because it took her two years to relearn her own culture.

[Julian Benzovalli]

She says it was like a form of cultural immersion. To be sent to live with her grandparents.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so, like, we talked about this. I talked about this a lot with Connie Walker, but a major part of it is the language.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, also, if you watch. It's a phenomenal show that was on fx, Reservation dogs. It's incredible. But they talk about it a lot there about. It's the language. Like, these people's language are gone. Like, there are people who are, like, born there, full blood Cree, who can't speak Cree because of what happened here. It's crazy.

[Julian Benzovalli]

100 years is what, four generations? Five generations of, like. Yeah, I. I mean, that's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Violet's saying, like, I still have a lot of ptsd. We all do. So Violet takes her culture and her history very seriously. So she passes it down to her daughter, Justice.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I was gonna say even justice, who I don't believe went to a residential school, but she deals with her mother's PTSD from the whole thing. And she's saying that it's affected the way that she parents her own children. And she says that just as her daughter Lily walks into the kitchen. And I was like, oh, my God, this kid is so cute.

[Patrick Hines]

And just this is like, we can't not talk about the. She calls it intergenerational trauma.

[Violet Suze]

And she says, you carry that forever, and until you become A parent. And until you become, you know, aware of how those things have impacted you, you know, is when you have the power to change that.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's still there. It's, like, in the air. It's all around us.

[Julian Benzovalli]

But it's all connected to the reason why the cops don't take these disappearances seriously. Because they don't want these people to exist.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Benzovalli]

You know what I mean? They live in a culture that tried to eradicate this culture for 100 years.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I mean, if you don't know about residential schools, I mean, like, a major trigger warning for everything. But look it up, it will blow your mind. And the fact that it was happening through 1996 is wild.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And the kids were forcibly removed from their homes.

[Patrick Hines]

They were either taken from their homes or they were like ads in the magazines about. Then they would be adopted into white families because, like, if you're indigenous, you must not. You're not, like, capable enough.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So they would literally strip them from their families, either putting them in the residential schools or as, like, a government mandate or whatever to, like, oh, you definitely can't handle your own kids. So we'll just, like, send them to a white family. And the white family could, like, pick out of the magazine or the newspaper, like, which one they want.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Back to Ventura county in California. This piece of shit rapist has been arrested and murder. He's been arrested for the murder of both Jane Does.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. So Steve is ready to take it to the DA Because Steve wants to prosecute the son of a bitch.

[Patrick Hines]

This is great because we get D.A. john and Detective Steve tell two versions of the same story.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the minute DA John hears the DNA evidence, he stops taking notes because he's like, oh, we have this guy.

[Julian Benzovalli]

He goes, when you do jury trials, and I've done quite a few, there's two types of evidence that jurors just love. Surveillance video and DNA. And for me, if you have either one, you take a shot.

[Patrick Hines]

DA John hears DNA evidence, and he's like, oh, I'm absolutely taking this case.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I've never heard surveillance video put in the same category as DNA. But I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it in terms of what juries like.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

That I get. Now on the other side of the table, Steve. Steve's like, oh, shit. He stopped taking notes. And I'm like, no, Steve, this is good. You both love DNA.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You hold DNA in your hearts the same way. Like, this is a good thing. But imagine you're Detective Steve. And you're like, oh, he stopped caring.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Why is nobody doing anything to educate juries that it doesn't have to be DNA? Cause I feel like the more that we say, like, oh, there's DNA, yay. The more we're reinforcing that. You need that or else the guy's gonna walk free.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, there's a lot there. It's all. I mean, it literally feels like a case by case basis.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I know we have.

[Patrick Hines]

If we have 50 pieces of circumstantial evidence, I don't really care that much about DNA so much anymore. But also, I love it. If we got it, I love it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Back again, girl. Simplisafe is back. Look, if you've ever felt unsafe in your home, now is the time to act. Because Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners. Get 50% off a new SimpliSafe security system.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

Simplisafe is a new way to protect your home that stops intruders before they break into your home. Wait until you hear how they do this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Old school systems would only take action once someone is already inside your home, which I don't know. Too little, too late. What have you done for me lately?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Simplisafe's active guard outdoor production changes the game by preventing grind before it happens. Girl, tell them how they do it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. There are agents. Everyone listen to this. Agents are like watching your house in real time and if needed, yes, they'll like, talk to people directly or set off spotlights.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's a Hollywood production up here with Simplisafe, fam. They are keeping the bad guys out of your house. Plus, there's no long term contracts, no cancellation fees, and it's around $1 a day for all this protection.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep, all that. So get out of here. Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only. You can get 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan.

[Julian Benzovalli]

This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to simplisafe.com TCO that's simplisafe.com TCO there's no safe like SimpliSafe and there's no SaaS like the SimpliSafe agent screaming at that guy to get off your lawn.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I love you simply my Lawn Abe Simpson. Over here.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Girl. Our place is back. I hear you've been using the air fryer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's like this air fryer toaster thing that does absolutely everything. It is so sleek and clean looking. And let me tell you, I'm a big leftovers person too. Same.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah, Cold puffs. We know all about it, right?

[Patrick Hines]

No, but if you're, I don't know, like an onion ring or a mozzarella stick.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Things that should be crispy. Yes, yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But also gooey on the inside. Talking about those mozzarellas.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Like me.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Our place. That air fryer does the trick.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I gotta tell you. We've been cooking with the pots and pans and fam. Did you know that most cookware and appliances are made with Forever Chemicals, but not with our Place fam. They are a mission driven and female founded brand that makes beautiful kitchen products that are healthy and sustainable.

[Patrick Hines]

And they know the importance of a leftover mozzarella stick.

[Julian Benzovalli]

But I mean, like, who does it? I mean, you know what I mean.

[Patrick Hines]

These ladies have my heart.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Hey, can I ask you a question?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julian Benzovalli]

You know those Forever chemicals I was talking about?

[Patrick Hines]

Gross. You mean pfas and Teflon? Hate them.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Can you get rid of them? Because I know that our place can.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, our place totally can. That's why we're sticking them. We're going to their place.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Exactly. They've always been PFAS free and they offer the most durable toxic free ceramic coatings, ensuring a healthy, safe cooking experience. I'm not much for cooking, but I have been lately and I gotta tell you, it's a great experience.

[Patrick Hines]

And I don't know if this means anything to you, but you know, our place is in everyone's kitchen. From Selena Gomez, who I love, and David Beckham if you're into the sports thing.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, well, I'm into David Beckham for other reasons.

[Patrick Hines]

Hot Spice's husband.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Do you call her Hot Spice?

[Patrick Hines]

I called Victoria Beckham Posh Spice.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I thought you called her Hot Spice. Which also works.

[Patrick Hines]

They're all hotties.

[Julian Benzovalli]

That's true.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

So fam, upgrade to our place today and say goodbye to Forever Chemicals in your kitchen. Who needs it?

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julian Benzovalli]

That's FromOurPlace.com code TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

Our Place offers a 100 day trial with free shipping and returns.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I hear Hotspice will even bring it away for you if you want her to take it away.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I don't know if I'll go that far, but, hey, I just called myself Hot Spice. May 9, 2018. Remember, these murders happened in 1980. The trial starts, it takes about a month.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. I love that we get none of the trial, really, because all we really get is the judge sentencing this bastard.

[Patrick Hines]

Everything goes according to plan. We have the DNA. We have. I'm sorry, his semen.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The. You know, he. It's all over, all the pieces of evidence. It's over the women. So, like, it's still very stressful, though, because Da John has to convince 12 people. You never know how this is going to go. Stranger things. Things have happened. They're prosecuting both cases, and it's just. It's wild. Like you were saying, like, it's just a DNA case.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Right, Right. And it is straightforward. But I love that we hear what the judge says to the killer. He says, while I take no personal.

[Patrick Hines]

Pleasure ever in sentencing a criminal defendant.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I will tell you I'm taking a.

[Patrick Hines]

Tremendous amount of professional satisfaction and telling you there will never be a parole board. Your last breath is going to be.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Taken in state prison, right where you deserve to be.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's going to be on my order.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I take great personal satisfaction in knowing that you'll never be in front of a parole board. Your last breath is going to be taken in state prison, which is where you deserve to be. And it's going to be on my order.

[Patrick Hines]

That guy sleeps pretty well at night, I think.

[Julian Benzovalli]

But here he's Angela, a glass of warm milk, two chapters of my favorite book, and lights out by nine. That's how I sleep at night when.

[Patrick Hines]

She'S, like, cheating all over the office. But another reason this was so difficult is because they hadn't identified the victims yet. So DA John was a little worried that, like, there's no family in the courtroom. They're known as Jane Doe Kern county number five, and Jane Doe, Ventura County. And DA John is, like. He was worried that the jury might feel disconnected.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But the fucking opposite happens.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And the jurors are here to tell us. Like, one of these jurors is, like, the fact that these women were unidentified meant that we had to be their family. We had to be their voices. We had to be the ones to stand up for that.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, I wasn't expecting that. And it made me feel really emotional because I'll take any win I can get in terms of humanity these days. And it was really nice to hear because it was so shitty. I'm sure. DA John has run into that before.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, oh, like, how many times have we heard, like, well, the rape victim didn't want to testify, so how are we supposed to humanize her?

[Julian Benzovalli]

Exactly. The rape victim that he killed isn't here to testify, so he can't face his accuser in court. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

How many times have we heard that? So to hear this jury be like, no, we are their advocates now. Really? Maybe.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Well, and also, like, Detective Steve, in the end, says the only regret he has is that he couldn't call up somebody's mother and father and say, I got justice for your daughter.

[Patrick Hines]

Because while the trial is over, the case isn't.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because we still have to, like, figure out who these women are. And Detective Steve says we need to send them home.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And that's amazing. That, like, they got their win, but they still cared about the part that they say that they care about.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. I mean, a lot of people would have been like, oh, like, tick that box and move on to my next case.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

But Detective Steve isn't doing that.

[Julian Benzovalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

So.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Which is amazing, too, that, like, his department gives him the room to continue to sort of figure out the rest of it.

[Patrick Hines]

I wonder. I don't know why, but I wonder if that's because, like, he retired and then they asked him to come back, and he's like, if I'm doing this, I'm doing it my way. Like, maybe he's in a different kind of test.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Maybe it's all part of it. Like, wouldn't it be weird if they actually all care about him, all of this? You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, let's not go that far.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I know. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

A dream. So now we're back with Violet in, like, present day, and she's at a march for missing and murdered indigenous women. Because, as we know, unfortunately, an Shirley is not the only woman this happened to.

[Violet Suze]

It's almost a weekly thing where our people are missing, our children are missing. We need people to. We need people to be made aware that this is actually still happening.

[Patrick Hines]

We are doing these marches, really, for everyone else. She's like, we know this is part of our culture, and we need people to care, and we need people to be made aware that this is happening.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I mean, justice, who's Violet's daughter, is saying that her own daughter is 6 and they're already talking about this. That, like, her daughter needs to understand, like, how safe and protective of. Of her own self she needs to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the cops won't do it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Because no one's gonna help her.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, everyone has to have their own backs or their. Each other. Like, each other's backs in the community.

[Julian Benzovalli]

God.

[Patrick Hines]

And there are people speaking about their friends and family members who have gone missing.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. So now we go to Tennessee to meet Gina Rather.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. She's a volunteer with the DNA Jane Doe project, which I know whenever I see a volunteer like this, I'm like, all right, dazzle me, Gina. And, boy, does she.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Well, she tells us about the DNA Doe Project. She said it was founded in 2017. It's a nonprofit organization working with law enforcement agencies to identify John and Jane does through DNA and genetic genealogy.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, we love this show. Right?

[Julian Benzovalli]

I mean, I love. She's saying the founders of this organization realized that the same methods used to identify birth parents for adoptees could be used to identify John and Jane Does. Like, the fact that we are able to use genetic genealogy in this way is magical.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, I feel like we're just at the beginning here. How many cases have we had? You know, like, Shayna from I Just Killed My dad. And like, all of these other things, I know there are a million cases, but it's just like we're kind of just at the beginning of all of this.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says, because they're all volunteers and passionate, and they love it, she goes, we don't give up on any cases. It can take 10 hours, 10,000. It doesn't matter.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I wanted to know more about her life. I'm like, girl, do you have another job? Like, how can you afford to just give 10,000 hours to someone like this?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Julian Benzovalli]

You know, maybe.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, maybe that means it just takes months and months and months. She'd get, like, an hour that she can do it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

These, like, DNA warriors. Because even when they explain to me how it works, I still can't follow it.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I've done it, like, a million times. And I'm like, and then they get the guy.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

But Violet, our friend Violet.

[Violet Suze]

I became a crime junkie just watching all these programs, listening to podcasts. I watched them identify the Golden State Killer.

[Patrick Hines]

She watched in real time, like, that very famous news broadcast of when the DNA helped catch the Golden State Killer in 2018. She was watching it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I mean, what's amazing we're gonna learn is that Steve, our detective, he was on the genetic genealogy task force for that case they're called.

[Patrick Hines]

I couldn't believe it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I think that that case was a real game changer for everybody. I think that, like, on the law enforcement side, on the people who are just caring about this stuff side, we realized, like, we all knew about the Golden State Killer, you know what I mean? Like, for 40 years or whatever. And they were able to solve it, like, one Tuesday afternoon.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's another instance of Detective Steve and Violet having a similar realization at the same time in their journey. Like, because Steve. Detective Steve was like, oh, DNA, that wasn't in the 80s, I'll use that. And Violet before was like, oh, the Internet, that wasn't in the 80s. I'll use that. So now they see the Golden State Killer happen in real time. And Violet's sitting at home going, oh, my God, that's the thing that's going to help me find my. And Shirley. And Detective Steve is on the case being like, oh, my God, this is going to help me with so many other cases.

[Julian Benzovalli]

We just. He's a person whose picture I never need to see again. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Not Detective Steve. The other piece of shit. The other one. I'm not even going to say it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now Detective Steve is taking everything he's learned and he's applying it because he's like, look at what the science can do to all these cases. And now we're going to talk about these two Jane Doe cases specifically.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Right. Because remember, they're able to get DNA from the women, from the evidence, from the crime scene. It takes a lot. It's really degraded, but they're able to do it. And they're able to, like, establish DNA profiles for both of these Jane Does.

[Patrick Hines]

Don is like, well, we don't have DNA from the victims just yet. So she wants to go back because, remember, in the 80s, they weren't taking it. Like, they just didn't know what to take.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's trying to see if there's anything she can use from the crime scene, like the clothes they were wearing, to try to see, like, what's going on from 1980 to now. It's going to be rough, but we're going to try it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And they do it.

[Patrick Hines]

They do it.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It works.

[Patrick Hines]

And Gina from the DOE project volunteered for this case. So, like, this is how now everyone we've met is coming together.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's so funny because Gina says when.

[Violet Suze]

We originally uploaded her, I think we had 19 visible matches, which is minuscule.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Gina says there were 19 visible matches. I was like, yes, 19. Oh, my God, so many.

[Patrick Hines]

She's there to take the wind out of your sails.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

She goes, which is minuscule.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Minuscule. This is where you start to lose me with the science. But that's a good thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Minuscule is a good thing here.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Because she says because of this, they were able to pinpoint her ethnicity right away. So. Because it was a small pool. Oh, good.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, great. So we're still. So the winds are back in my socks. We're back. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Windy day. But because of the information, she knows that her Jane Doe is indigenous, so she immediately goes to the indigenous Facebook groups.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. Which is such a smart idea. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And also now we just take a quick detour to Detective Steve and his wife, Mickey.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, my God. I'm obsessed with Mickey.

[Patrick Hines]

They have mugs that say everybody counts.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And is Mickey Rhodes not the coolest name ever? It's like she's in that band Heart.

[Julian Benzovalli]

What? How do I get me Mickey Rhodes. I know. Mickey. You're right. You're right. That's a definite rock star.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a cool name.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And honestly, take one look at Mickey. Like, she probably kills that song at karaoke.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course, Drinking out of there. Everybody counts moms. I know, but she's here to be like, look, in case you didn't know, from the first 40 minutes of this documentary, Detective Steve is dedicated. He misses birthdays, he misses holidays. His phone is ringing off the hook. He answers it every time, and they're like, he can't balance a checkbook, but he can solve a cold case. And I'm like, good news, everyone. Everything's digital. You don't have to worry. Don't waste your time learning about how to balance a checkbook. You're keep doing what you're doing.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I love that one day that Steve was retired and he was, like, sitting around the house annoying Mickey to pieces. So that when they called, they're like, do you want to come back and do cold cases? Mickey said yes before he could even answer. Get out of here, Steve.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Go back to do amazing work and.

[Patrick Hines]

Then, like, sit and talk about it out of. And while they step out of there, everybody counts.

[Julian Benzovalli]

They seem. I. They look like they've been married for 80 years.

[Patrick Hines]

They're both catching. It's great.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is rare.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's true.

[Patrick Hines]

So they're great.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Back again, girl home chef is back. This is, like, our favorite meal kit delivered right to our house.

[Patrick Hines]

I love a meal kit. And I love a meal kit during the super busy time of year because it helps solve a lot of problems and it answers a lot of questions.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Can I tell you this too. Like there's lots of different meals types that you can pick from and we pick the high protein, like low carb ones which you never want in the moment but you're always glad that like healthy, you picked it a week ago and it's in the fridge ready to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So they deliver fresh ingredients and chef design recipes, they deliver them conveniently to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. Also users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease.

[Patrick Hines]

So let me just go into some of the variety here. So if you want like classic meal kits with pre portioned ingredients, they have those quick 30 minute recipes. They have those too, oven ready options which is perfect again for this time of year. Oh, whoa, we have to go to the thing. What are we going to do, throw it in the oven? They also have microwave meals. They have a family menu. They have like everything, hassle free, delicious food delivered to your door. Are you kidding?

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's incredible. Home chef has over 30 options a week and serves a variety of dietary needs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Customers are saving an average of like 86 bucks a month on groceries.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I mean I'm just thinking about it now. When you go to make dinner just like, like a one meal, how much you over buy just to make that one meal?

[Patrick Hines]

And also I have to tell you, I'm not making a joke like saving all that time. Time deciding is priceless.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

That is priceless.

[Julian Benzovalli]

100%. So fam. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 18 free meals plus free dessert for life, which is really good. And of course free shipping.

[Patrick Hines]

On your first box, go to homechef.com.

[Julian Benzovalli]

TCO that's homechef.com TCO for 18 free meals and free dessert for life. They're not kidding about that.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Homechef.com TCO must be an active subscriber to receive the free dessert.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And you're going to want to be.

[Patrick Hines]

No funny stuff.

[Julian Benzovalli]

No funny stuff.

[Patrick Hines]

Now September 2019. Remember Detective Steve came on this case in 2012. These cases are from 1980 and now we're at 2019.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

There's a breakthrough moment. There's a match on the Jane Doe, Kern County Number 5.

[Violet Suze]

She was within the second cousin range and of her great grandparents, only one great grandparent was indigenous. And so we said we're on the right track here. Once we identified the great grandfather, we.

[Patrick Hines]

Knew he lived his entire life in the Masquachees area.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Of her great grandparents, only one Was indigenous.

[Patrick Hines]

So they identify the great grandfather.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He lived his whole life in Musquicis, which is exactly where we started with Violet. And I'm like, oh, my God. It's all coming together well.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And not only that, his children and his grandchildren all lived in the same place their entire lives as well.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julian Benzovalli]

So Gina's like, if we go there, somebody is gonna know who this Jane Doe is.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's excited, but she's cautious, because then this hit me like a ton of bricks.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She says, to date, there hasn't been a single indigenous identification because they are so underrepresented in the databases.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's unbelievable.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says they've just had their history erased in so many ways.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So February 2020, three years after the murders, the Jane Doe network posts on Facebook again.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And this time, the post makes its way to Violet. A friend of hers sends it to her.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Because what happened was Gina was, like, really getting. Remember how she said, we never give up? She's kind of like, I don't know that we're gonna solve this one, because, like you were saying, she's, like, an indigenous person, and they're underrepresented. We are having a really hard time reaching the community.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julian Benzovalli]

So she. But she'd been in the Facebook groups already. She gives it one last push, and.

[Patrick Hines]

She posts a photo of the composite based on.

[Julian Benzovalli]

She's like, show this to everybody. You know?

[Patrick Hines]

And they did. And everyone showed it to. And now we're in.

[Violet Suze]

Violet, my friend, she said, go on Facebook. They found a woman who is from Esquachis. And so I went into Facebook, and I logged on, and I'm like, that's her. This is her.

[Patrick Hines]

This is aunt Charlie.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And we get this amazing moment where Violet was like, okay, this looks really good. The more I learned, the more I was like, this is probably it, but we gotta upload Violet's DNA to GEDmatch, because Violet had uploaded her DNA to ancestral only, but not to Gedmatch, which is, like, a much larger pool. So Gina is walking her through the steps of uploading her DNA, and, like, as it comes through and it's a hit, they both burst into tears.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because I had Gina does her thing on her end.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She does the magic.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Well, because it's like, Gina's talking to me. Okay, Patrick, you need to, like, click this box and drag this thing. The upload is the circle with the little blue button. You got to press that. They're, like, virtually holding each other's hands.

[Patrick Hines]

So Silly.

[Julian Benzovalli]

They're like, this is going to be it.

[Patrick Hines]

And then it freaking. It happens. Yeah, it happens. And so Jane Doe, Kern county number five is Violet's aunt Shirley. Her name is Shirley Suze.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's so emotional for violent, for Gina, for us, for everybody.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Gina says it was her most emotional moment ever working with this project. And Violet was like, I probably didn't even sound human to her over the phone. She's just like, Gina's describing the sound that Violet made. Violet is describing the sound that Violet.

[Patrick Hines]

Made because it's relief, but it's also grief. And it's also just all of these years and decades. And like, Violet just keeps saying, like, I kept my promise. I found I kept my promise.

[Julian Benzovalli]

And Violet says this really interesting thing. She's like, I don't remember if I screamed, if I cried, if I laughed. It's like, funny how any one of those emotions makes sense in that moment.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a release of any kind. So by April 24, 2021, Shirley Susse's story is on the news. Like, her name, her face, her story, it's not stripped away from her anymore. And so Detective Steve reaches out to Violet to be like, hey. So, you know, I know it felt really lonely, but, like, starting from 2012, I was right there with you and.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Violet, like, that means so much. So she. She says that Steve has, like, a place in their family because Violet's like.

[Violet Suze]

You know, thinking, I was doing this by myself. Little did I know there were others who were doing the same thing, and we just had to meet. They were trying to find her identity. I was trying to find my aunt, knowing that I really wasn't alone. That's so comforting.

[Julian Benzovalli]

All these other people all over the country, all over a separate country, working to sort of identify her as well.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, everyone was doing the same thing for the same reason, kind of independently. And then they all got together, and Violet thought she was by herself with her daughter, Justice. And like, now we're all here, and.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It'S like, I would imagine when you work in those jobs, whether you're Violet looking for your lost loved one, or your Gina or your Don, or your. This is the day you live for on the really hard days. You remember this day?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know, Violet says it's so comforting. People do care. And she says, my free spirited auntie is coming home.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, oh, my God.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But things take forever because it's like the year I'm like, we're 20, 2021, May 27th.

[Julian Benzovalli]

The only thing that went fast. Was the trial for that piece of shit.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I'll take a win where I can get it. No one was hemming and hawing about that asshole. Great. We'll take it. So. But it's March 27, 2022, and Shirley Suze's remains were brought home. There was. Was a funeral. It's 40 years in the making.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And these bikers from Muskweet Cheese escorted Shirley the rest of the way home.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So then we get some onscreen text, and I have some updates.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

So Jane Doe, Ventura county, remains unidentified.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it says Steve Rhodes continues to search for her family. So I want to put the link in the show notes because I think we can really help.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But the DNA DOE project in 2023, they posted a really detailed update about what they found in their DNA. So they have descendants and ancestral lines. They have, like, names, they have relatives. They have a lot of defining characteristics, like piercings and scars. Oh, they have it all laid out on the website. They're asking for the public's help. They were able. This is crazy. They were able to identify the father of Jane Doe's unborn baby.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

He was found and interviewed, but had no information that is helpful, which, like, there are also no details on why there were no details. It could have been for 1 million reasons, of course. So we really don't have, like, for all of the information they found and to have it laid out that way and to be able to speak to someone who knew her, like, we still don't know anything.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Wow.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially after 40 years. Like, human memory is a wild thing. So we'll put that link in the show notes. Maybe something will trigger a memory for you or. I don't know. And to see their work like that is really crazy. All laid out with their timeline and their, like, map and everything. It's really, really nuts.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Wow. I mean, great work, everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I mean, my God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Really crazy.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Oh, my God, girl. We did Web of Death, episode four.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. California Dreaming.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Are we gonna do more of these?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well, I mean, this is our last bonus episode of the year, but for sure we're gonna do the rest of the series. I think there are two or three more episodes, but they are on the list for our next bonus episodes. It's a really great series.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I mean, this is our last bonus episode of the year. That means nothing to you, dear listener. The episodes are just gonna keep on coming.

[Patrick Hines]

Recording. Schedule doesn't change. We still do. We still record nine Episodes twice a week. So we got your back.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Just don't worry, fam. Just remember, if you are on the Patreon or you want to join the Patreon to come hang out with us at Drag Bingo, it's next Wednesday, December 11th at 7pm Eastern. If you do join the Patreon, that's where you're going to get over 400 full ad free bonus episodes the second you join. Right now, we're doing that. This is the Zodiac speaking from Netflix.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So here's what's coming up. Today is Thursday. So tomorrow, Friday is the last episode of this is the Zodiac Speaking, episode three. Then we're doing Anatomy of Lies right after that.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I didn't think I was gonna like it. I watch it. I was like, these out of their mind lesbians.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I know at least one of them.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Well, only one, really, but like, it's wild, it's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And then, so Tuesday on the regular feed, the girl on the milk carton. That's the two parter on Peacock. What we did in one episode.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Yeah. All right. Well, lots going on, lots coming up. We love you. Stay tuned. What are we going to do in the trailer for the Girl on Milk Carton?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I think so. Because that's the next one on the regular feed.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that's what we've been doing.

[Julian Benzovalli]

All right, we'll see. Tuned for the trailer for that fam. And we love you. We'll see you at Track Bingo.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you. See you later.

[Julian Benzovalli]

All right. Bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. Jonelle Matthews of Greeley, Colorado, who, five.

[Julian Benzovalli]

Days before Christmas, disappeared from her home.

[Patrick Hines]

Greeley was a sleepy little town until December 1984. No forced entry.

[Julian Benzovalli]

No signs of struggle.

[Patrick Hines]

Check.

[Dawn Ratliff]

She's vanished.

[Julian Benzovalli]

It's believed she's the victim of a kidnapping.

[Patrick Hines]

She was one of the first ones.

[Julian Benzovalli]

On the milk carton.

[Patrick Hines]

Someone in Greeley knew something. A monster tapped on the shoulder of law enforcement because he couldn't help but to do it. Statements made by Pinkey made him a person of interest.

[Julian Benzovalli]

The former candidate for governor of Idaho. He's an enigma. Is he a criminal? Is he a witness?

[Violet Suze]

Who is he? I didn't know she existed until six days after the fact.

[Julian Benzovalli]

I never let myself fear failure.

[Patrick Hines]

Failure wasn't an option. It was like a quest for me.

[Violet Suze]

I had to find out if he killed Janelle Matthews.

[Patrick Hines]

You couldn't even believe something like that would happen. It affected people for decades. It still does.