450: Look Into My Eyes Part 1

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed: Episode 450

"Look Into My Eyes Part 1" (Episodes 1 & 2 Recap)

Release Date: September 2, 2025
Hosts: Jillian Pensavale & Patrick Hinds

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Episode Overview

This episode covers the first two installments of the true crime documentary series Look Into My Eyes, focusing on the disturbing case of North Port High School in Florida, where principal Dr. George Kenney practiced hypnosis on students. Within one year, three students—all of whom had sessions with Kenney—died (one in a car accident, two by suicide). The hosts balance their trademark humor and sass with genuine outrage at the abuses of power, exploring the risks of unchecked authority in high school settings and how well-intentioned actions can go catastrophically wrong.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: North Port, FL

• The episode opens with hosts recounting the environment: small-town Florida, alligator warnings, insular culture, and a frequently-maligned high school with 2,000 students and a reputation for trouble.
• Memorable quote/Hot take (05:06): "You're either an idiot or a criminal if you went there. Their words, not mine." – Patrick
• The school's negative reputation is critiqued as unfairly coloring perceptions of the students.

2. The Principal and Hypnosis

• Dr. George Kenney, after 29 years as principal, becomes obsessed with hypnosis following a hypnotist’s performance at a ‘lock-in’ graduation party. He attends a five-day training at the Omni Hypnosis Center (dubiously compared to "the Royal Tampa Academy of Dramatic Tricks").
• Kenney starts practicing hypnosis on students during school hours, often sidelining classes for these sessions—citing improved grades and reduced test anxiety as benefits.
• Quote (18:17):
  Lawyer: "You have one week of training in hypnosis, correct?"
  Kenney: "I have one week of formal training. That would be true."

3. The Deaths—and Troubling Parallels

• Marcus Freeman: Star football player, high achiever, dies in a car accident after allegedly practicing “self-hypnosis” (11:19–13:01).
  • Witnesses report his eyes rolled back while driving, appearing hypnotized before the crash.
  • Raises debates on whether the hypnosis and resulting dissociation contributed (13:01–13:45).
• Wesley McKinley: Newer student, seeking better grades/social skills, dies by suicide less than a month later (46:56–48:34).
  • Behavior after his session with Kenney is described as robotic, confused.
  • Died in a kneeling position, exactly mirroring the slumped, folded posture seen in hypnosis footage.
• Brittany Palumbo: Another student seeking SAT help, dies by suicide three weeks after Wesley. Her mother was present for her session—Brittany remembered nothing about the posture she was in (59:09–63:03).
  • Both Wesley and Brittany’s deaths lack physical evidence of a struggle, mirroring the physical “blankness” of their hypnotized state.
• Statistical horror (19:18–20:07): “Twenty-nine years of this job and not doing this, no kids died. One year of doing this hypnosis, three kids died.”

4. Ethics, Power, and the Creep Factor

• Serious concerns about consent, oversight, and boundary violations are discussed at length.
• Kenney videotaped over 70 hypnosis sessions (some without parental knowledge), often featuring disturbing amounts of physical contact – students' heads in his lap, hands in their hair (24:18–25:38).
• No mental health intake or medical consultation preceded sessions; no other adult present; records hidden until forced out.
• Many students and parents defended Kenney, blaming the tragedies on other factors, while families of victims faced community backlash.
• Quote (25:07–25:16, Patrick): "He has his hand on their head, and he's, like, rolling their head around in his crotch...running his fingers through their hair. It is fucking disgusting."

5. Victim Families and the Town's Response

• Wesley's parents only learn about their son’s hypnosis sessions after his death, through a self-interested call from Kenney warning them about upcoming press coverage (54:43–55:31).
• Brittany’s mother, present for her session, is deeply unsettled by both the physical suggestibility and memory loss it induced.
• The documentary and hosts note a shocking lack of accountability: Kenney resigns but isn’t immediately investigated or arrested; moral outrage is often directed at the families, not at the principal.
• The community is bitterly divided—some defend Kenney’s intentions to this day.

6. Hypnosis and Suicidality: The Missing Links

• Hosts discuss (and reference expert opinions from the documentary) that while hypnosis cannot “make” someone do something against their will, it can heighten and intensify existing self-destructive thoughts (72:36–73:04).
• The key danger: bypassing a young person’s psychological safeguards.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "I think this principal should be in prison for the rest of his fucking life. Oh my God, I hate this guy."
  Jillian (10:56)

• "He is either abusing his authority, or, if nothing else came of the story, this guy would still be an insufferable asshole—and a creep."
  Patrick (23:00)

• "Their heads are fully in his lap...not behind his desk, their legs are intertwined...his hand on their head, rolling their head around in his crotch."
  Patrick (24:35–25:07)

• "In 29 years of not doing hypnosis, nobody died. In one year of doing hypnosis, three kids died...Maybe one would be a coincidence. Three in three months—absolutely not."
  Jillian (29:47–30:07)

• "He is an expert at making himself both the hero and the victim."
  Patrick (38:31)

• "If this man was not in these kids' lives, they would still be alive today, in my opinion."
  Jillian (73:12)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:43–03:12: Hosts establish they're in North Port, FL, and discuss the local culture
• 09:06–10:19: Introduction of Marcus Freeman; background on hypnosis at the high school
• 11:19–13:01: The car accident and suspicions about self-hypnosis
• 24:19–25:38: First description of disturbing physical contact in Kenney’s hypnosis sessions
• 46:56–48:34: Wesley’s death recounted by his friends and mother
• 59:09–63:03: Brittany’s session described, memory loss highlighted
• 71:02–72:24: Description of how Wesley and Brittany were found; physical posture matches hypnosis state
• 72:36–73:04: Discussion of how hypnosis may intensify suicidal ideation

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Structure & Flow Highlights

• Hosts maintain a rapid, bantering tone laced with outrage, gallows humor, and empathy for the victims’ families.
• Repeatedly call out failures of adult oversight and community accountability.
• Directly confront the discomfort and creepiness of the footage shown, especially regarding physical boundaries and emotional manipulation.
• Draw parallels to scandals like Nexium, referencing cult psychology and misuse of power.
• Bring in their own experiences as educators and parents to ground the horror in everyday reality.

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Memorable Moments & Cultural Touchstones

• Sass and clairvoyant outrage: At multiple points, Jillian repeatedly insists Kenney “should be in prison forever,” never wavering even before all evidence is laid out.
• "Shut up, Janice": After a school bookkeeper downplays the significance of multiple student deaths, the hosts coin this as a new TCO catchphrase (30:31–30:36).
• Disney World tangents: Moments of comic relief in recounting Disney World mishaps, but always segueing back to the grim seriousness of the subject.
• Pop culture comparisons: Extended metaphors about “party clown” certifications, Heather’s as a lens for the “normalization” of school tragedy, Nexium for culty self-help abuses.

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Core Takeaway

The first half of Look Into My Eyes reveals a shocking story of negligence, boundary-violating pseudoscience, and the catastrophic results when school leadership is both unchecked and unaccountable. Jillian and Patrick blend humor, righteous anger, and careful analysis as they call out the real-world consequences of giving a single authority figure dangerous psychological access to teens.

To be continued in Part 2…

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Listener note: If suicide or abuse is a concern for you or someone you love, please reach out to appropriate resources. The show makes clear how crucial oversight and mental health support are for vulnerable youth.

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Transcript

[Jillian Benzavale]

I put this all in one doc, so it's 29 million pages long.

[Patrick Hines]

I split them between the first two and the second two.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I used to do that, but then I was like, then I can't find anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I wanted to feel like the hard break. I wanted to be like, oh, Then we're like. For me, it was more helpful to be like, oh, this is.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Welcome to the behind the scenes. Welcome to the sauce, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, is that real? I was flouching.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's okay. Hi. Jillian Benzavale.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm wearing my Sasquatch shirt today.

[Patrick Hines]

Cute.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's a Sasquatch in heels. My friend Ashley gave it to me.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Isn't it cute?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm wearing my warrior shirt.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, yes. All right, girl. We're all for the fashion these days, I'm sure, fam. Speaking of fashion, join the Facebook group.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, I could do that.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's the true crime obsessed podcast discussion group. There's like 55,000 people in there. We're hanging out, we're having a good time. We're making new friends. It's where we go for AMA questions. You know, that's the thing. Also the Patreon.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Patreon. We do drag bingo every month at the $5. There are ad free versions of these episodes. Then we do like the series.

[Jillian Benzavale]

What are we doing? What are the series we've covered recently that they should know about?

[Patrick Hines]

Amy Bradley is missing.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Mr. And Mrs. Murder we're gonna do after that, which is.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Who are they?

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Is it really?

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I think there are other ones that people really wanted that we did recently.

[Patrick Hines]

We did so many. Hey, beautiful. The romance scam.

[Jillian Benzavale]

That was wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Scamanda.

[Jillian Benzavale]

If you like gay men with hairy shoulders, you're gonna love that episode.

[Patrick Hines]

We got a lot going on.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah. Yeah, we do. It's patreon.com true crime obsessed. Or just go to the link in our show notes, fam. We're doing that thing today where we are taking a thing and splitting it in half and you're getting the first part of it as the regular episode this week. It's going to be available ad free at the $5 level on Patreon right now. So you can go listen to part two of our coverage of Looking in My Eyes or you can wait until next week and it'll be our reg. Part two will be our regular episode next week.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So this is four episodes. So this TCO episode will be there, the first and second episode. And then, you know.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Do you ever feel crazy when trying to explain it? It' four episodes, but we're doing it in two. But we're also putting it in half full time.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're also doing this. And then it's available, but it's not always available. But it is available if you want it to be. If it can be, you know, choices. Three students died within three months of each other.

[Jillian Benzavale]

There would be none of this if there wasn't.

[Derek]

The deaths.

[Jillian Benzavale]

His intentions were always good. Dr. Kinney told me there's this thing called hypnosis. It has the potential to help me with tests.

[Patrick Hines]

A lot of our kids needed extra help. Is that the way to help them?

[Derek]

This should have never happened.

[Patrick Hines]

He has ruined my life.

[Jillian Benzavale]

This man just wanted to help. All right, should we jump in?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Well. Well, or don't. Because the first thing I have is a screenshot. Oh, look into my Eyes. Episode one. Absorb attention. But it's a screenshot of a sign that just says, danger alligator and snake habitat. No swimming or waiting. Avoid water's edge. And I'm like, are we in Florida? The answer is yes, we are.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So funny. Because they talk about the town of Northport, but I was like, northport, where I had to Google what state this took place in.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Because I didn't catch the snake alligator sign. Also Florida. I gotta tell you, I just had an absolutely fucking magical experience in Orlando.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And can I tell you something?

[Patrick Hines]

Get it like the Magic Kingdom.

[Jillian Benzavale]

But that's where I was.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So I guess, pun intended.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

But Florida, Orlando, I wasn't ready for your amazing weather in terms of, like, at nighttime, they get these, like, flash storms where, like, the lightning is gorgeous, it downpours for 15 minutes, it cools everything off, and then life goes back to normal. Who knew?

[Patrick Hines]

What about the humidity?

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's pretty humid, but I'm into that these days.

[Patrick Hines]

You love it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I do. I do. I will say, say, the monorail at Disney World, when we were there, got struck by lightning, Shut it down. Disney World in the rain is, like, not a thing I learned. Like, when it rains and it lightnings, everything gets turned off.

[Patrick Hines]

Smart.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

We were annoyed, but in upon retrospect, I think you're right. That probably is smart.

[Patrick Hines]

If it's only for 15 minutes.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone, like, get a grip and then we'll get back to it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Those lines are too long. Like, two hours for Space Mountain. God damn.

[Patrick Hines]

What? I've Heard though now is that if you get. What is it?

[Jillian Benzavale]

The Lightning Lanes.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. But now they have lines.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah, but it was like the longest we waited was like 15 minutes. It was pretty magical. I called it the happiest place on Earth and was swiftly corrected. Disney World is the most magical place on Earth. Disneyland is the happiest place on Earth.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, now we're just kidding.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I knew that wouldn't be fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you just like.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know we're having fun here. Yeah, yeah, that's a better slogan. Just go have fun, Disney World. Just go have fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Go have fun.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I agree.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about my verbiage. Totally my wording.

[Jillian Benzavale]

One controversial take, Tron, was a little bit disappointing. We can move on.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, let's. Okay. Okay.

[Jillian Benzavale]

We have a lot to get through today.

[Patrick Hines]

North Port, Florida, it's very small. Everyone knows everybody and everything. The big joke we are told about a thousand times. It's very like country, I would say a lot of people that go four wheeling on the weekends. There's not much to do, so you have to kind of entertain yourself.

[Jillian Benzavale]

The joke around everywhere in these parts. Graduated from Northborough.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

It must be the dumbest of the dumb.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Or a criminal.

[Patrick Hines]

If you went there. You're either an idiot or a criminal. Yeah, we hear this 15 times. Their words, not mine.

[Jillian Benzavale]

That's kind of a hot take about your own high school. Like, I always think my high school wasn't amazing, but it was like, fine. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But like, we will learn eventually that this is like a new high school too. And they were kind of always struggling, which I think is really shitty to not like, can you give a shit about the kids who. It's the one school in town and.

[Jillian Benzavale]

2000 kids in the school. 2000.

[Patrick Hines]

We meet a bunch of them. Ashley, Derek, Steven, Steven, AKA Steve, AKA Leprechaun, AKA Stevo, AKA Douche, Douchebag, Red. And I'm like, sweetheart, asshole isn't a nickname. It's because you're an asshole.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know, but this poor kid, he's been to hell and back, this guy. Yeah, but like, look, I'm sure if you've watched this documentary, you have a lot of thoughts. We also talked for 15 minutes before we even started about our thoughts. We got a lot of thoughts about these kids. We got a lot of thoughts about this guy. There's a lot going on here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Ariana, she was like a goth scene kid who's now a swifty. The emo kids pipeline is definitely A thing. Hi, Tom. Sweet mos. You night is Sumo's a thing? Oh, yeah. Major, major, major.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Do you think was Taylor an emo kid?

[Patrick Hines]

She had to be her. I mean. Well, she said that Pete Wentz is her favorite lyricist. So she's. And the Haley Williams and Paramore. And I know that I'm. I'm just. I know I'm using emo. I understand. I know that goth and scene and emo are all very different things. Just. It's Sweemo's unit.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I do not. I need to have it all explained to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Goodles is back. We are a Goodalls household. Tell them what this is.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. If you haven't heard of good old which get on the good old trade. This is like the Mac and cheese we know and love from our childhood. But it's packed with protein and nutrients. Finally.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right? So every serving of good old Mac and cheese has 14 grams of protein, 7 grams of fiber with prebiotics and 21 vitamins and minerals from real plant sources. Can I just tell you, Daisy has Mac and cheese every Monday night. That's. It's like a standing thing. She's used to that one brand we all like, everyone used to eat growing up.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know her.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Let me tell you. We will now let her eat the full box of Goodles because of all the protein. Protein and prebiotics and all the good stuff packed in there.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me tell you. They also have single serve cups.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is so great. I usually get like, I forget that I'm hungry around lunchtime and then I'm like, oh, I need something.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And you can make it so fast.

[Patrick Hines]

So fast. It's so good. I have to say, like, it's creamy. It comes with a spork. It's like this iridescent purple blue spork. I love it so much.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And on top of all of that, fam, it's kosher and clean. Label purity award certified. Like, come on. It's got everything.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And there's something for everyone. With their amazing variety of flavors, plus vegan and gluten free options. You can find it. I can. I love the gluten free.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Goodles is good. I eat it. I eat it at least once a week. So, fam, trust us. You need some good old Mac and cheese in your life.

[Patrick Hines]

Pick up Goodles on your next shopping trip. It's available nationwide at Target and Walmart, plus many other major grocery stores and retailers.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And don't forget the new single Serve cups. We were just talking about my fave. I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Lifesaver. So, yeah, all types of kids. They describe it like the school had.

[Derek]

Like, 2,000 kids in it. You know, it's the only high school in Northport.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

I could be wrong, but it was.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Maybe like a D average school.

[Derek]

Northport was like the redheaded stepchild.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know, the students weren't accepted unless they excelled in, like, athletics or if.

[Patrick Hines]

They excelled in academics. They describe it like the jocks, the musicians. I'm like, so a typical high school.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Things I hate about you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And honestly, there is something appealing to me about having gone to a huge high school like that. Like, I didn't do that. I went to. I went to a small high school, but it kind of would have been cool to, like, see that. Like, I would do a small college. I kind of wish we had, like, a quad and, like, you know, a billion kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But everyone who's describing the school, everyone's talking about it in a pretty negative light. And it made me kind of sad because I'm like, well, this isn't their fault. Like, the students. It's not their fault. No.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And, like, all the students we meet seem to have had a pretty good time.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, this is the only school in town. They don't have any other option. And it just feels like, can you care about the kids? So Marcus Freeman was a star student all across the board. He was the star football player. He got straight A's. We're told he was on the path to something amazing.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And he was, like, amazing at football. They called him, like, the secret weapon when he was like, we're going to learn later. He was, like, drafted up to varsity when he was a freshman. Like, this kid's really, really.

[Patrick Hines]

And his best friend Derek is here to say, like, he was my best friend.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

I mean, I live with him. I lost my dad in a car accident when I was 11. My parents were divorced, so I ended up moving in with Marcus. I mean, everywhere we went together, if it wasn't school, I mean, we were together.

[Patrick Hines]

They actually lived together for a time. They were on the football team. They just. They knew each other their whole lives.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And, like, Marcus's family took Derek in when, like, one of his parents died. I think, like, it was a. Like, they're one of those really good, kind families.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So this guy, George Kenny, he's the high school pr and like, one year they go off for summer vacation, right? And then, like, when they come back, he's now super into hypnosis and using it on the kids. So like last year this wasn't a thing. And by September of the next school year, it's this guy's entire personality.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Like, once again, we're going to get more on this later. He had been doing this job for 29 years. Went away, like chaperoned, literally a field trip where he saw one of those like X rated hypnotist, like making kids do like the fucking chicken dance or whatever. And he's like, I'm going to. He was inspired to go learn hypnosis and all hell is about to break loose.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Because of it.

[Patrick Hines]

So Marcus Freeman died in a car accident and we're told that it's after doing, quote, self hypnosis. So his coach is also named Marcus.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Now, once again, we don't know if that's true or not.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. You know, so Marcus the coach is like, I'm going to stop you right here. I don't like the hypnosis shit at all. These are young kids, they're learning, they're growing, their minds are developing. And he's like, so like, hypnosis is weird. And now we're like teaching them how to do it. Self hypnosis. No way. I'm. I'm on Marcus's side 1000% like this.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm going to get incensed. This is all to me. This is so crazy. It is so black and white.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I think this principal should be in prison for the rest of his fucking life. Oh my God, I hate this guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I think it's complicated, but I don't think he's blameless here. No way.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You're probably, your moderate take is probably the right one. But I like just having a kid in school. They also wait too long to tell us that some of the parents signed off on this. Like, I don't love how this documentary was made, but I do think it's a good documentary. Anyway, we'll get more into it later.

[Patrick Hines]

So Marcus Freeman dies in a car accident. Accident. And he's with his 16 year old girlfriend, Carly O'. Boyle. She was seriously injured. They were driving home from a dentist appointment.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He was getting a routine cavity filled. We're going to spend five minutes later being like, did something happen? No, he was getting a cavity filled. This is not the fault of the dentist.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But I guess the question is that no one's really asking is like, well, did he have medication? Like, I mean, girlfriend's supposed to drive him home. Like, what?

[Jillian Benzavale]

My teeth Are so bad. I can tell you I've had so many cavities filled that like, they typically give you novocaine and if you're lucky, you'll get some of that laughing gas that literally wears off in eight seconds. Okay, so if he was given anything more than that, it would be very highly unusual. It's not unheard of, but it would be very highly unusual.

[Patrick Hines]

So I guess we'd know.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean, I think we. I think we know. Like, I. I can tell you I've had probably 15 cavities filled. And like, that's the drill.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Literally, that's the drill.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Don't.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I did it.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, sorry. Do you. Does that sound trigger?

[Patrick Hines]

You just. I feel it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know. Me too.

[Patrick Hines]

I feel it. I hate it. So Carly Marcus girlfriend tells people what happened. She says they left the appointment. They were driving down the highway. They were singing Firework by Katy Perry.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

His arms were 10 and 2. He was locked up behind the wheel, and his eyes were rolled back in the back of his head like he was hypnotized, per se. She yelled at him, screamed at him, beat his arms to try to get him off the steering wheel. And then all she remembers was they started to drift slowly.

[Patrick Hines]

The BFF Derek chimes in and says, like, he was hypnotized per se. I don't know if that's what happened.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's impossible to know. We will never know. The rumors are now flying around the school that he was self hypnotizing and that he was taught how to do this by Dr. Kenny, the school's principal. Right. You know, Marcus's parents are on the news saying they want Dr. Kennedy to know that he has ruined their lives.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So. But like, the town is kind of divided because it's an absolute tragedy and there aren't any answers. And usually when that happens, we sort of have a bunch of different camps.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And we're going to learn. Dr. Kenny is BA. Loved. Like this town loves him.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't get it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Me either.

[Patrick Hines]

I think he's a creep.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Prison for the rest of his life.

[Patrick Hines]

I think he is just a certified creep.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes. And like. And acting way outside the balance of his authority.

[Patrick Hines]

At the very least, he's a creep.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So let's go back a little bit to 2004, seven years before, quote, the deaths. Oh, no.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I actually wrote the murders. I know that's not what was said, but that. But that's what I wrote by accident.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow, you real.

[Jillian Benzavale]

That's seven years before the murders I wrote.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, yeah, I know where you stand on this. I know that's like a meme.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm going to try to not be insufferable about it, but I want this guy in prison forever.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So in 2004, this was the first graduating class. Like this is a new high school.

[Jillian Benzavale]

We meet mousy Janice, who's the bookkeeper and she's got a lot of shit.

[Patrick Hines]

To say and party planner and defender.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Of these guys 100%. She organized a lock in for the night of that first graduation and she brought in a hypnotist. And I said thanks a lot, Janice.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because they literally lock them into the gym as a way to make sure they don't drink and drive or get into any trouble.

[Jillian Benzavale]

We talked about this. I think on a recent episode they did that after my prom. You opt into it, you don't have to go.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's like meant to be fun.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's meant to be totally fun. And they do things like they bring in a hypnotist. They're like, we had a velcro climbing wall. Like, like they do make it kind of fun. It's a way to keep the kids off the street. Not all the kids participate, but if you do do it, you have to agree to be 11:00pm to like, you know, 8:00am or something.

[Patrick Hines]

Look, if we're getting drunk people off the street, you know what I mean?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Absolutely.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. For keeping people safe, great. But we were not, I guess because Janice is going around to all the quote project graduations in the district and she found this hypnotist. Also Janice's dog is here. The dog didn't do anything wrong.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Front center, sitting on Janice's lap, knees. Hi friend. Loving you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

We get a lower third.

[Patrick Hines]

No we didn't.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I hate it.

[Patrick Hines]

We meet another dog later, we don't get their name either.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Okay, documentary makers. You got to do better, you got to do. But we asked for so little.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. That there's like a lot more to get to.

[Jordan]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So we see footage and it's like Bill to this comedy show.

[Derek]

There are like football players, they're in.

[Patrick Hines]

A beauty pageant and so they're putting the lipstick on and they think they have boobs and they walk around the stage and they outdo one another putting on lipstick. Like haha, guy in a dress, right?

[Jillian Benzavale]

And like that's the thing. Like you know, where I grew up on Cape Cod, they would do this X rated hypnotist thing a lot. We're like, at the bars at night, like, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

You're saying X rated?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah, I mean, I think they use that term loosely, but, like, you know, he would, like, get the girls to, like, maybe, like, lift their top. I mean, horrible, like, 90s bullshit.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't like. Because these are all, like, teenagers. And the reason we're doing this Is because they're 17 years old and shouldn't be left to their own devices.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So they're like young kids. And so they're, like, losing their inhibitions. They're doing things they'd never do. And I don't like watching it. I find it very weird and very unsettling. I don't like the power dynamic, the adults and the kids. I'm a total wet blanket. But I don't like it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

No, no, no. We talked about this off mic. Like, is it real? I've never understood if this is actually real or not. Like, are these hypnot actually hypnotize these people to get them to do stuff? Or is it like, I'm in front of this group and now I've gotta, like, perform. I'm gonna. I'm gonna just go with it because it'll be funny. Or is it like a little column A, little column B?

[Patrick Hines]

It's probably a little bit of both. I'm not an expert. I really do think, though, that it'll work on you if you want it to. And I don't know if. I mean, I definitely don't want it to work on me.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I definitely do. Like, I. If I raised my hand to do this, oh, my God, like, the sky would be the limit.

[Patrick Hines]

I think it's just. What do they call it? Like a quote? Like a highly suggestible state, you know, because we will learn a little bit more about it later, but just don't really.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I would have my shirt off running up and down the aisles in four seconds.

[Patrick Hines]

You're welcome to be hypnotized. You can just do it. You don't need to, like, blame it on the hypnosis.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm hypnotized. Patrick, put your shirt on. I'm hypnotized, though.

[Patrick Hines]

I got to tell you, I feel like this guy would love that because I think he's a fudgeing creep.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Million percent.

[Patrick Hines]

Because this principal guy starts going to all of the project graduation events at different schools, talking to the hypnotist and getting involved and assisting them. It's just inappropriate.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He goes to become the magician's assistant. Literally.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like a fan girl.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's like, why is he so upset? Like, this guy wants control over other people. That's what this comes down to. That's what, like, hypnotizing people in this, like, doing this is all about for him. I'm not talking about, like, the doctors and the people who are, like, certified to do this for real. He wants to control other people.

[Patrick Hines]

Because in certain states, I believe it's recognized as a form of therapy.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean, we've talked about how, like, you can get hypnotherapy for flying. You know, like, you can get it for drinking, you can get it for smoking, you can get it for, like. And they say it really works.

[Patrick Hines]

Really?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean, that's what they say. I've never experienced it. Can we go to an X rated hypnotist one night? That'd be really fun. Would you go with me? Maybe it won't be on a party barge. I promise we'll do it, like, on dry land.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm such a fucking insufferable person.

[Jillian Benzavale]

What's your level of tolerance for me and my shirt off? I need to know. I need a 1 to 10 on this.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever, whatever. If you want to do again. But what's really great about this is they keep. I mean, clearly the people who made this documentary hate this guy, the principal, because they keep dropping in video from his deposition, which is.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Which is the great. If you're ever deposed, you have to imagine it's going to be in a documentary that you and I are gonna cover someday.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause the lawyer's like, you have one.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Week of education and hypnosis.

[Patrick Hines]

Correct?

[Former Principal George Kenney]

I have one week of formal training. That would be true.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Let's talk about this course that you took at the Omni Hypnosis center in Deland.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

Okay, okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I have one week of formal training. But, you know, I'm one of those natural hypnotists.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And it's also a five days. It's not even a full week. It's a five day thing.

[Patrick Hines]

You took a five day course at the Motel 6 down by the airport.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Which I literally wrote, this is giving Jenna Moroney's Royal Tampa Academy of Dramatic Tricks.

[Patrick Hines]

If ever I've heard any 100%. And so this guy on the video camera, this guy in the video says we should start hypnotizing our kids at 5 years old and teaching them how to hypnotize themselves. Like, what are we doing?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Like that now once again, like, for what? I mean, if some expert can convince me that, like, there is value in hypnosis in terms of like helping kids with anxiety. Helping with, you know, like, somebody could probably tell me in a way that I would believe that this can be used for the forces of good. I get it. But like, like, three kids died in the span of three months. Three. Let me say that again. Three kids died in the span of three months the year that this man started doing this.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

29 years of this job and not doing this and no kids died. One year of doing this hypnosis and three kids died. And this guy wants to say it has nothing to do with him and.

[Patrick Hines]

Suddenly this principal is moonlighting as a performer. Only it was during school hours, right? And interrupting class and fucking doing crowd work and doing bits and hypnotizing people, Going to random classes, attending field trips.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Is there community theater in this town? Could you know, this man wants to do the very merry model of a modern mater. General. Did I get there?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. Gilbert and Sullivan and then Hamilton.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Jordan]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

But I'm just saying, like, this guy just wants a audience. Is there nothing for him? He can't go on a storytelling tour?

[Patrick Hines]

Also, like, this is a school that's struggling, apparently. So maybe don't interrupt class for your fucking hobby. It's your hobby.

[Jillian Benzavale]

One ho that. Good night banana. We saw, we did it. That's it.

[Patrick Hines]

These are kids who are struggling in school or whatever or whatever it is. We heard. It's all like, all negative things about this school. And the principal is now gonna interrupt for crowd work and hypnosis bits or taking kids out of class to be in his office alone.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So. But Eric Williams is here and he admits that he was very susceptible to this. He says that the principal would hypnotize him. After the hypnosis, my score went up by 500 points.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I took that test and I breezed through it. And I've never breezed through a test.

[Patrick Hines]

That's not something that happened to me. I didn't ace test. So now, like, he's making this link between the hypnosis and the good grades.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And even this principal will say, I can't give you information, but I can quell your anxiety. I can make you do it faster. I can make you be more focused. It's not that he's like, giving them the answers, but what he would say is that the hypnosis is giving them the tools to be able to take tests more efficiently.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. With their. I'm sorry, I'm. This is not. I'm not one of those, like, ageist people, but. And I'm going to say that this is just a fact. With their underdeveloped, emotionally heightened brains.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not. That's just a fucking fact.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Sometimes they go home and kill themselves after.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes. Like, I'll read you a quote from a study that I looked up specifically about this because I was like, I need to know. Well, yeah, we'll get there. Travel down the road.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Back again, girl. Earn in his back. Look, we've been saying it every week. Life does not happen bi weekly. So why should Payday?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So Earn it is the app that lets you access your pay as you earn it. Up to 150 a day with a max of 750 between paydays.

[Jillian Benzavale]

All you gotta do, download the Earn an app and add your info. Then start accessing your pay as you work and leave an option additional tip to help keep the app running for everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

Any money you access, plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Earn and empowers you to make the most of your money with access of up to 150 bucks a day of your pay with a max of 750 bucks between paydays. No interest, no credit check and no mandatory fees.

[Patrick Hines]

Download Earn in today spelled E, A, R, N I N in the Google Play or Apple App Store.

[Jillian Benzavale]

When you download the Earn an app, type in True Crime obsessed under Podcast when you sign up. It'll really help the show. That's True Crime. Crime Obsessed under podcast.

[Patrick Hines]

Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Access limits are based on your earnings and risk factors.

[Patrick Hines]

Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Expedited transfer available for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service.

[Patrick Hines]

Available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply. Visit Earnin.com for full details.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Download Earn in now to take control of your paid.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, seriously, sometimes you just feel like treating yourself.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Hello, treatment yourself 2025.

[Patrick Hines]

So the principal is also doing private sessions and was recording them with over 70 students. No one is doing anything about this. They think it's harmless. And I'm like, I don't understand. Is he not at the very least abusing his position too that 100%? Because like, if nothing else came of the story, this guy would still be an insufferable asshole.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And smug. And a creep.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And a completely unselfaware man in a very high position of power.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Should not be fudgeing allowed.

[Patrick Hines]

At one point, one of the students is like, it was weird at the time because that's Our principle. It's like your boss. Well, whatever he's doing must be okay. Must be right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's the imbalance of power. Right. We think about this in so many ways now. Thank God for, like, the MeToo movement. And we understand the imbalance of power. That is a power imbalance. He is. He's saying, you need my hypnosis, and you can't say no to that.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, there's that saying, like, oh, I felt like I was called into the principles of office. He's literally calling you into the principal's office to do hypnosis. And everyone in the documentary is handed an iPad.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And we see them watch the sessions. We don't see it just yet, but then it cuts to the deposition, and this principal is like, oh, I erased all the tapes after I got all the bad press. But we still have all of them, sir.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Because we are watching a fair amount of these things.

[Patrick Hines]

These kids were doing, quote, therapy. He did over 70 students, and these kids were doing what he calls therapy, which is illegal and not accurate with him three times a week. Where is literally any other adult? Where's another teacher?

[Jillian Benzavale]

We'll get there in a minute. But, like, the way that when he hypnotizes these kids. Boys and girls. They're boys and girls. Not meant. Mostly boys.

[Patrick Hines]

Mostly boys.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Thank you. We're going to talk about that. Right. Their heads are fully in his lap.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, right. So when we finally see. Because we see people react to the video, and you're like, it can't be that bad. Oh, it is.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's really, really close to them. Their legs are almost intertwined. He's in a chair. They're in a chair.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Legs between legs.

[Patrick Hines]

He's like, not behind his desk. Like, their legs are intertwined. He would be like, you know, look into my eyes. You're getting very sleepy. Three to one, the boys. And all we see is boys right now.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The boys would fold over, slumped over. Their heads are. When I say completely in this guy's lap.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

They're falling like a head on his.

[Patrick Hines]

Crotch into his arms. And he is. He has his head. This is so fudgeing. Disgusting. He has his hand on their head, and he's, like, rolling their head around in his crotch.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, running his fingers through their hair.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

It is fucking disgusting.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And they're doing the vomit coming up in my throat. As you were saying.

[Patrick Hines]

They're doing everything he wants them to do.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And according to the student and to this principal, these boys Are unconscious now. Nobody. We don't. The words of sexual abuse are never said in this documentary. It is never discussed. I don't know why, but, like, their heads are on his penis. Like, they just are.

[Patrick Hines]

They just are.

[Jillian Benzavale]

They just are.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's rolling their heads around. Yes. There's movement that he is forcing them to do.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

In his lap. Like. But the thing that's crazy, again, this was a school that was, quote, struggling. This whole thing, we are told, is actually working when it comes to academics because all of the numbers in the school are up. So no one's really paying that much attention to this. Yeah, because it's, quote, working.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And at this early stage in him doing this, these kids, their parents don't know that it's happening.

[Patrick Hines]

They don't.

[Jillian Benzavale]

There is not another adult in the room. He's videotaping it, but there's not another adult in the room, and there is no parental consent happening at this point.

[Patrick Hines]

So Marcus died in the car crash. He is the star, everything star athlete, star student. But BFF Derek says, we got moved.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

Up to varsity our freshman year. I mean, we played with boys twice our size. You know, Marcus getting banged up a lot out there, getting hurt. One day he came to me, he said, hey, man, I'll be gone for about an hour. I'll be back, and then I'll meet you before pregame.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I said, okay.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

Where are you going? He's like, I got to go to Dr. Kenny's office. So for what? He's like, he's been hypnotizing me for pain.

[Patrick Hines]

We hear this all from his best friend, Derek.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Where Marcus is saying, like, I just want to be able to play through the pain. That's a bad idea. Especially when you're a child. You should not be finding ways for him to do that. Adult person.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So every Friday before the game, Marcus would get hypnotized. He'd go to see the principal. He would get put in a trance, and he told his BFF Derek, that he then, like, wouldn't be able to feel his body at all. So then he'd get hit as many times as possible during the game and. And play through that pain, which is ridiculous and dangerous.

[Jillian Benzavale]

The way. Sorry, not to har on this, but the way that they describe being hypnotized is that they cannot feel their bodies. So they are literally in a trance, alone in a room with this man where they cannot feel what he's doing to their bodies.

[Patrick Hines]

Disgusting.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And once again, nobody says anything about sexual abuse, but watching These videos, it is undeniable that there is a sexual component to this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And the principal is like, well, this didn't have anything to do with pain. This is about his sports performance. Cut to the deposition. Is your testimony under oath that you never promised to help him with pain? Yes. The lawyer goes, all right, I don't believe you. I just want you to say thanks totally. But apparently this was working because we're told that Marcus would get hit super hard and just get right up and keep playing. And people are like, it was amazing to watch. No, it's. This is not a good thing.

[Jillian Benzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Should horrify you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And it's also, like, how much of that is, like, real versus how much of that is mental? You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, we meet Dr. Julian Casalia, and he'll come back a lot later, but.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He says he's a clinical hypnotherapist. So he. This is the man with all of the fucking degrees and certifications is the guy who did it the right way.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? He says pain is an electrical and chemical response in the brain to a damaged nerve. That's all it is. We interrupt that message by, I don't know, taking aspirin. Yes, something like that. He says, you cannot stop that message hypnotically. And this is important. It doesn't stop the nerve from being damaged. It just stops the brain from responding to it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's why this is really dangerous.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And that's what the doctor says. I called him Dr. Julian. He was saying, when I'm assessing a patient for pain management, I need to decide if the right course of action is stopping the pain or is the pain telling us something important that we need to pay attention to to.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So it's like, if Marcus gets his ankle broken on the field and can't feel it, is that. That's a bad thing?

[Patrick Hines]

It's a very bad thing.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know?

[Patrick Hines]

And BFF Derek is saying that the more this hypnosis was happening, Marcus was becoming more and more a shell of himself.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

I mean, there was even times where he'd come back to the sidelines, just have, like, a blank stare and just staring at the football field.

[Patrick Hines]

Poor Marcus would just be, like, standing there staring, like, unclear on what to do. Like he wasn't actually there. Derek says it's like he was in.

[Jillian Benzavale]

A trance, zapping his brain, right?

[Patrick Hines]

So when Marcus dies in this car accident, which, again, it's like, okay, well, he's getting hurt a lot. And we know that brain injuries happen a lot in football it sounds like he had a seizure. Is it a seizure? Like, what is. What is the connection to the hypnosis? I don't know.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah, but I mean, like, to hear his girlfriend tell it, she says, like, his eyes just went dead and they slowly drifted off the road until he crashed into a tree. Like, we can't all. I will just say this a hundred times, insufferably. There's no way to directly connect the hypnosis to the deaths. But in 29 years of this man not doing hypnosis, nobody died. In one year of this man doing hypnosis, three kids died and learned.

[Patrick Hines]

And doing it shittily.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

These three kids that died were kids that worked with him one on one very closely. Nobody can tell me there's not a correlation.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know, that. That maybe one would be a coincidence. Three within three months. Absolutely not.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's. Yeah. And I know there were 67 other kids. There should have been zero.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Is my point.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Three out of 67 is not good odds.

[Patrick Hines]

There should have been zero.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

He should not be doing this. So Marcus dies in this accident, and everyone is grieving, and the principal, we. We're told the principal is letting everyone grieve. I'm like, of course he is.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

But bookkeeper Janice has this quote where she goes, I don't think there would have been any of this, you know, hubbub if it wasn't for the deaths and the suicides that came after.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, really, Janice.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut up, Janice.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I. Shut up, Janice. And also, like, I need to shut up, Janice. Mug tomorrow.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, Janice, you suck. But, like, we never spoke to the dentist. It seems like no one I know, like, the documentary didn't know on screen text. Like, we could have some answers about what happened at that appointment. And we have zero.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's like he just got a cavity filled, I guess.

[Patrick Hines]

So then, like you were saying, there are more deaths. The two deaths that follow Marcus are ruled as suicides.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And three students are dead in three months. All of them are Northport students. All of them were hypnotized. How is this guy not even questioned by any of this? Because once again, everyone is divided. I'm like. Like, my head is spinning. Like, this guy eventually leaves town. Yeah, he quits. Not fired. He quits. And everyone wants to know why. And, like, he's never told his side of the story, and he's never explained, and people want the explanation. And then I'm like, why are we releasing balloons?

[Jillian Benzavale]

I don't.

[Patrick Hines]

We have enough to Deal with why. Why am I looking at 40 balloons in the air?

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know. You know that's one of the crusades we've been on since day one. That's one of like one of our first asks. Yeah, don't do that.

[Patrick Hines]

Don't do that anymore.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Well, give them an option. What else should they do?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. What can you do? You can't it do? Do rice.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Can you bake a cake?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Jordan]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, that you can do.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm not doing that. I don't know how to bake a cake.

[Patrick Hines]

You, you know, I beg you. So this asshole is here to sit down for this documentary. He's crying and he says, literally quoting fleabag.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

So what is this story about? This is a love story. And it's about. It's about what every teacher feels for their kids.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a love story. And I'm like, don't you dare.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Don't you dare. And it's all.

[Patrick Hines]

He goes, this is a love story. It's about what every teacher feels for their kids.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I wrote omg Bar.

[Patrick Hines]

Fake tears, fake sniffles. End of episode one.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Girl Haya is back. These are those amazing kids vitamins that are not full of sugar.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Typical. Children's vitamins are basically candy guys. Right? They have like two teaspoons of sugar, unhealthy chemicals, all these other gummy additives that growing kids should never eat.

[Jillian Benzavale]

No. And that's why Haya created a super powered chewable vitamin.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Many children's vitamins have like 5 grams of sugar.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Which we hate because that's known to contribute to a variety of health issues. So Haya is made with zero sugar and zero gummy additives.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Also, are you like me and sick of battling with your kids to eat their greens? Haya now has a Kids daily Greens plus superfoods. Now get this. Daisy loves this. It's a chocolate flavored greens powder designed specifically for kids, packed with 55 plus whole food ingredients to support brain power development and digestion. So we do this every morning in our house. You just scoop, shake and sip with milk or any non dairy beverage for a delicious and nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy. This is why we don't have the fight at dinner anymore about making her into broccoli.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So the same multivitamin that more than a million parents trust is now available with an enchanting Disney Princess welcome kit with a new princess unboxing experience including Princess bottle and stickers.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Daisy loves the stickers and stickering her bottle and Fam. We were out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50% off your first order to.

[Patrick Hines]

Claim this deal you must go to hayahealth.com TCO this deal is not available.

[Jillian Benzavale]

On their regular website. Go to h I y a h e-a dash l t h.com tco and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's like the candy vitamins but they're actually have nutrients in them.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And you decorate the bottle with Disney.

[Patrick Hines]

Princesses who new the best. Look into my eyes Episode 2 Bypass the critical I'm like, I don't need these episodes to be titled like hypnosis jargon.

[Jillian Benzavale]

How did we hear about this documentary?

[Patrick Hines]

It was sent to me by so many people.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Really? I mean, it's good. It's a good documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just a crazy topic. I think people feel insane watching it and they want to scream.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I am fascinated by the idea of hypnosis. Fascinated, Yeah, I am.

[Patrick Hines]

But like I. I like like being having my distance from it. Yeah, I don't like it. So this guy, the principal, is Dr. George Kenny.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm not calling him doctor.

[Patrick Hines]

See, I take issue with that.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know that he earned his doctorate. I get it. Anybody else who did it the same way with him, I'm happy to call you doctor. It's not that.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Benzavale]

The head of school of Daisy school is a doctor. We call her a doctor. She's got the same degree. The people of this town literally get confused and allow the hypnosis to happen because they think he's an actual medical doctor.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because he's telling them that I want.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I want this man in prison.

[Patrick Hines]

He's. I mean, he's lying.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Did he really tell people he was a medical doctor?

[Patrick Hines]

He. I mean, even in the deposition, he. He says he's totally, completely qualified. Even in the permission slip that the parents signed because we'll look at it later.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

He sounds like a licensed whatever.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm not calling him that. I'm calling him Kenny. That's his last name.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? So he's in North Carolina. I have former principal because that's his lower third. Former principal.

[Jillian Benzavale]

When bad people have two good states. Hi, Julian. Camille. I love North Carolina and I love my family in North Carolina. I don't want him to live there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, he. Well, he does.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I want him out.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I'll. I'll give you an update on what he's doing.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He left because I Asked him to.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's always been interested in hypnosis. He was chaperoning kids to a conference in Orlando. The entertainment is for teenagers. He is transfix. He is in awe of what he's seeing. He simply must be a part of this.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Now my thing to this son of a bitch is he easily could have gone out and been like the party clown.

[Patrick Hines]

Do that if you want a hobby, bro.

[Jillian Benzavale]

If you want to do the hypnosis because you think it's fun and you're good at it and it's, go do it. Go like the chubby gay guy, take his shirt off and run up and down the aisles. I will do it every single time. But don't get in the heads of your kids.

[Patrick Hines]

But what's, what's really scary where I'm like, oh, he's just. This is the beginning of him just like saying it all out loud.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

Yeah, I think his name was Dr. Wand. And it was pretty fascinating how trusting these kids could be that were involved and to what degree he could influence their behavior.

[Patrick Hines]

The guy on stage was really influencing their behavior. And I'm like, you know, we can hear you, right? So there's footage of him doing this in the classrooms on a regular basis. He's not observing, which I know is a thing. He is interrupting class at a school that could use a hell of a lot of help, by the way.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And by the way, like having a kid who really struggles in school, I can say these kids, they're not doing anything wrong with this, but they will look for any reason to not have to do the lesson. You know what I mean? Kids who are having a hard time in school are thrilled to have the fun principal come in and do the fucking chicken thing.

[Patrick Hines]

What some of them will tell you though, is that like, well, I played better at the game. I aced that test. So they're seeing it as like quote working.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And if that's real, if that's legitimate, can we get one expert to tell us that?

[Patrick Hines]

I would love that.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know what I mean? I would love that because like, this can be. But I think what our expert, Dr. Julian will tell us eventually is hypnosis for kids this age is just a bad idea.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a terrible idea.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's just a bad idea. Their frontal cortex, or whatever it's called is not formed yet. Like, don't mess with their fucking psyches.

[Patrick Hines]

But he's also also just completely unabashedly full of shit, this former principal guy. Cuz he goes, well, you know, he, he Describes a student that he says was, quote, experiencing tics. And he goes, well, you know, it's like what Tourette's would be. And I'm like, so this isn't an official diagnosis. You're just saying whatever.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says, actually, Jillian, I will confirm it. He says the student was not diagnosed with Tourette's and he had not seen a doctor. And I'm like, who does this guy think he is? First of all, this is Nexium all over again.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he claims he cured the student like Nexium did. Remember that the student isn't here, doctor isn't here, the parents aren't here. He's just like, saying shit for the sake of it. Cause there's a camera in his face and he's trying to justify his creepy fucking weird behavior.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know we'll get into this like in episode three or four or whatever, but, like, the fact that this guy sat down to do this documentary is wild. It's wild that he's typical. It is. Oh, that is so much better said. It's typical. That's exactly right.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course he did it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And he'll tell you exactly why. Yeah, he's telling you exactly who he is.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And he just doesn't think he did anything wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

He's the victim. And he says so multiple times.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm going to throw up. I don't think I'm going to make it all the way through this.

[Patrick Hines]

Because here's the thing about people like this. They are experts at making themselves both the hero and the victim. And he.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You're so smart.

[Patrick Hines]

Patterns, girl.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You're so good at it.

[Patrick Hines]

Just pattern. It's. It's just patterns.

[Jillian Benzavale]

But you are an excellent judge of character. You know what I mean? And it really serves. I mean, it served you so many times, but it really, like, you really see it in a thing like this.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Even I can say there's nothing impressive about this guy. No, but like, typical. You're right.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope he heard that, though.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Because all he wants to be is. Well, he would just, you know, blame you for being, you know, you're just.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah, totally. And. But you know, there's a party where he's doing like the X rated thing. I'm going, I will be the guy. I will raise my.

[Patrick Hines]

Before this. Before this one. Right?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So this.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Can't get my shirt off fast enough.

[Patrick Hines]

So that's. But that's this like, curing Tourette's. I'm like, did you just watch the vow, bro. I know because the quote, curing the student.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

So after I thought I need to get more training to make sure that what I'm doing is the best that I can possibly do this. So I went to training at the Omni Hypnosis Center.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You're going to do it even better than I did because now you know what you're doing. It was the five day course that you took. True. The Omni Hypnosis Training Center. And like the flyer would like to say it was made in Canva, which I use, by the way, like, no shade this like the flyer was made like, it looks exactly like what it.

[Patrick Hines]

Is if canva existed in 1990.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

And it says it's the Omni. This is. I will. We will post the screenshot.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The Omni Hypnosis Training center presents Gerald Kynes snippets and then in quotes, hysterical person.

[Jillian Benzavale]

What does that mean? Does that mean he is literally taking the training to be a party clown and like applying it to his kids who have real issues that need to be looked at by a doctor. If you think that this student might have Tourette's syndrome, you need to have him go get evaluated.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So the kids not here, doctors out here, the parents aren't here. Is this real? Like, what are you talking about? So, and I don't want to discount. I know people have had a lot of success with therapy, with hypnosis, but that's not what this is.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm not saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Not a fucking licensed therapist, that hypnosis.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Is bad or wrong. I would do it. I really would. I would try it if I needed it. I'm not discounting hypnosis. What this man did is so fudgeing dangerous. And three people died.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's really, really dangerous. But now he's like, he's an expert. Five days. He's an expert.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So 2011 is the year Fear of the deaths. This former principal explains that he suggested hypnosis to Marcus Freeman because this guy was working with some other athlete. And he basically like talks Marcus into this hypnotherapy, which is not hypnotherapy.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Marcus is like, yes. Like, wait, you're telling me I can play better? I could do like short. Like, God knows what this guy said to this teenager, the quarterback of the.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Football team, that he's going to now get alone in his office and unconscious and put his.

[Patrick Hines]

Literally put his face face down, by the way, in his lap, rolling his head around and putting his fingers through his hair.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes. And I'm glad that we're fucking talking about it, because nobody else is. It is. You watch the video and it is so inappropriate.

[Patrick Hines]

And there's no trigger warning about it. There's no, like, it's. It's bizarre that no one talks about how physically. And he is constantly. Because I'll bring it up later. He is constantly touching these kids.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And not just the hypnosis. He is constantly touching these minors.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Underage children.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm so glad. I thought it was just me. I'm like, am I just being that hypersensitive gay guy again? No. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I couldn't. I couldn't believe what I was saying.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because it would be bad enough without it. Do you know what I mean? And then it's like, oh, there's that level to it, too.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And it's blatant. And it's the kind of thing where once you do it one time, then that's just the norm. It's normal. It's grooming.

[Patrick Hines]

And they don't know what's happening for them.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Because snap. And then you literally snap them out of it.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So they worked, quote, a few times during spring break, which is weird because that's not what BFF Derek said in the last episode. In the last episode, he said this was a weekly thing before all the games.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So he's working with Marcus very, very, very closely. Working with. You know what I mean?

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Marcus dies a few days later on March 15, 2011, in the car accident. And the fake principal is. Fake crying. Former principal. But, yeah, fake principal, whatever. Principal, fake crying.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I said, murder.

[Jordan]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Because he says, marcus was amazing and this is so tragic. Yes. Those things are true. But then he says, well, the response was so big. The response to this tragic accident and a teenager dying.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

It got so big that I started to get concerned down the line. We're going to have another death in this school. I think we need to start to move on. I'm concerned. Concerned about how others might react down the road.

[Patrick Hines]

There will be another death at this school. I think we need to start to move on.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's almost as though he knows what's gonna happen.

[Patrick Hines]

I said, what I know. And then he. Because there's no empathy either. You will never hear any warmth or compassion or understanding or empathy for the three dead teenagers.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Not once.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Especially the two that died by suicide.

[Patrick Hines]

Not once. So. But he continues and he goes, huh. Well, that turned out to be very prophetic. I mean, you know, and then he goes, I don't know how deep I want to go into this next part.

[Jillian Benzavale]

This school story, this documentary turns into Heather's. Did you see Heather's?

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean, it becomes Heather's, where like all of these teenagers are dying by suicide, and it like, becomes normal. It becomes not weird anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't believe he had the nerve to say that the response to Marcus's tragic death was, quote, too big. It was so big that it was concerning.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he's saying, well, someone else is gonna die soon. Like, we can't be harping on Marc Marcus. And I'm like, I don't understand the words that you're saying to me right now and why you're saying them and why you think this is a good idea and how this makes you the hero and the victim at the same time.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You're an insane person.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He just. He has no self awareness or any ability to. Look at his role in this.

[Patrick Hines]

Zero.

[Jillian Benzavale]

That's what it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Zero. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Cornbread Hemp CBD gummies are back. I take one every single day when I get home from work. To take the edge off.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, there's like, we have a lot going on. You know, Sometimes you just want to take the edge off. Sometimes you need to relieve aches or discomfort. I feel like everyone has tried absolutely everything and it wasn't working until. Yes, the CBD gummies from Cornbread Hemp.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Listen, they only use the best part of the hemp plant, the flower for the purest, most potent cbd. I used to sometimes when I would try this with other brands, feel like groggy or disoriented. No, this just, like, relaxes me a little bit and I'm like a better me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because they're specifically formulated to help relieve discomfort or stress or sleeplessness or all of the above.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, and get this. All products are third party lactose lab tested and USDA organic to ensure safety and purity. Look, gone is the after work cocktail. In is the CBD Gummy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's also nice to know that I have something that can help me.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because that used to be part of the stress of my day of being like, great, well, I know I'm not gonna sleep later. You know, it's really helpful.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So fam. Right now, TCO listeners can save 30 on their first order.

[Patrick Hines]

Just head to cornbreadhem.com TCO and use code TCO at checkout.

[Jillian Benzavale]

That's cornbreadhem.com TCO & use code TCO but only if you want to feel better at some point during the day when you take one.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Use code TCL. That's it. Very simple.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Thank you so much.

[Patrick Hines]

CBD, TCO. It works. So Wesley McKinley is 16 years old. He went to this guy for hypnosis. He wanted better grades, and he wanted to, quote, do better socially, which broke my heart.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And he was new. Like, he was new to the school, but even though he was new, like, everybody. Everybody loved him. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And so, like, we meet his mom, Peggy, and his dad, Charles, and, you know, we get a tour of his room, and we learned that he had a really good heart.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

Wesley was one of my best friends. Wesley was the kind of guy that would do anything for you. It's never a dull moment with that kid.

[Derek]

He was very talented, like, super talented. Guitar. He was tall. You know, I just feel like he was like the ideal person.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He was just like the sweet new kid that everybody liked.

[Patrick Hines]

And Ashley's here, and she's like, yeah, like, we dated the way 14 year olds date. Like, our moms picked us up the mall and dropped us off here, and we went to the movies, you know.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Just like, it's right around the corner. I'm not ready. I know I'm not ready.

[Patrick Hines]

He was a talented musician. He was playing guitar. Like, he loves music. And so Peggy, his mom, describes what happened. And this was the very day Wesley dies. He had a hypnosis session. Session.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So Peggy, Wesley's mom, describes what happened. And again, he just had a session with this piece of shit guy. So Wesley comes home from school again. He's like, in a tr. He walks right by her.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Puts his backpack down. And she says. And he. He walked out the back door like. Like, hi. She's like, hi, I'm right here. Like, what?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So he told her that some friends were coming over. His mom asked what time. Wesley didn't answer. And he just walked right. She says, he walked right past me and out the back door. And this was wildly out of character.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So three hours later, Peggy hears sirens. She said she had a very uneasy feeling. Detectives came to her door, asked if Wesley was her son and said that he was dead and how he was found. They lived near an abandoned house, and there was a woman driving around the neighborhood looking for a house to buy. She saw this one, and her young son jumped out of the car and said, let me go see if it has a pool. Went around back on this property and found Wesley hanging.

[Patrick Hines]

He had walked one block away yeah. An hour later. So like when she's saying that he just walked right out the back door, like, like it feels she, what she's describing feels like he was very determined. He's not answering. He walked. And an hour later.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I wanna, I wanna point out I looked this up. Cause they don't make it clear. Marcus died in that car accident on March 15th. Wesley died by suicide on April 8th, less than a month later.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Two dead kids in less than a month.

[Patrick Hines]

And the kids are devastated because like they're still grieving Marcus. And now this other trip.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Tragedy at 16, 17 years old. How do you process the death of two kids in your high school?

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing is that really sucks. And I'm probably speculating, but based on what I've learned about this guy, I think I'm kind of right. Wesley's death did not get the same response as Marcus.

[Jillian Benzavale]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the principal was covering his own ass. He doesn't want people to make the connection that they were all hypnotized.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes. And he tells Ariana, because ariana goes to Dr. Kenny, the principal who's doing the hypnosis. Why isn't it getting the same level of coverage? And he said, because it was assumed suicide. And we don't want people to think that that is something to be celebrated.

[Patrick Hines]

You, you first of all, supremely shitty. Take two. But like, but you'll hypnotize them, Right? So like the irony of this guy talking about the suggestibility of teenagers.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes. And I want to go back to what you said. You're right. He's covering his own ass.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. He doesn't want people to know.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

That now two kids within a month that he's been working closely with.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Once again, 29 years of not doing hypnotherapy or hypnosis. It's not even the hypnotherapy. One year doing hypnosis and he's got dead kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And we're not done.

[Patrick Hines]

We're not done. And this is when he gets shadier. Because Wesley's mom, Peggy says that Charles, the husband and Wesley's dad, went to collect Wesley's things at school. And the principal walked him to his car where Peggy, the mom was waiting.

[Derek]

And he's like, I was sitting in our van and he came up to me and said, I'm so sorry for your loss. I didn't know Wesley, but I heard from other people that he was a really good kid. Which was a bold faced lie.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not just a lie, it's A lie on purpose. And it's a seed planting lie. Yes, it's a lie. Like offering up that, oh, I didn't know him, but I heard from other people. You knew him.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You were working with him. You were doing your hypnosis on him. Like, and then he told his head was in your crotch yesterday.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, and then this guy doubles down on the lie in the deposition. And I'm like, well, okay, hey, documentary. Can we ask him right now? Because he's mic'd up and on camera, so if we're not gonna ask him these questions, and what are we doing here?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

What are we doing? But, like, he wants to do all of it. He wants to do hypnosis for pain. He wants to get kids better grades, but he also wants to, like, convince kids they have 11 fingers, right? So he wants to do the party tricks. But he also wants to.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right, because we're learning about Wesley's last hypno. Hip. Hypnot. Hip. Whatever. Hypnoth.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry, I totally got in your head about. I don't know what that word is.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I just don't want to call it hypnotherapy. His hypnosis session or whatever. And his friends are saying that on the bus the day that he died, he was acting really weird. He was counting his fingers, going to 11, insisting that he had 11 fingers but not number seven. Like, he was in a really fucked up mind space.

[Patrick Hines]

So the lawyer in the deposit is like, you didn't like, snap your fingers and snap him out of it? Like, that's where that comes from. And in the deposition, the former principal is being grilled, and he goes, well, it's temporary. And the lawyer shoots back, he goes, well, it's not temporary, right, because when you hang yourself, you end your life, right? So it's not temporary. So that's what the lawyer is trying to say here. That, like, why didn't you make sure that he was not in this hypnotic state once he left?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

You're the principal.

[Jillian Benzavale]

To the documentary now. He wants to make it clear. Wesley came to him. I didn't seek him out. Wesley came to. Came to me. That doesn't matter. The practice of doing hypnosis on these kids is against the law, and it must be against any kind of code of ethics that these educators live by.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says, because we're sitting with him for the dock in his den or whatever.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And he takes like a long pause and he takes a sip of whatever's in his mug and he's like, you know, I didn't know Wesley very well. Yes, you did.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes. You knew him well enough to get inside his head.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, he was new. He just keeps, like, hedging and lying. I mean, he's just lying. That's what he's doing. So the former principal is now talking, like, a little bit about the hypnosis. And he'd say, like, oh, you know, like, we talk a lot about how we wanted to be better at guitar. And I'm like, wow, your relationship dynamic is getting bigger already.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

I thought you didn't know the kid and you lied to his parents.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That you'd never met him. Which is also weird, too. Like, how many fucking red flags is this guy going to have even when he's trying to make himself look better?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Which is so interesting, because you're right, he's lying to the parents on purpose to cover his tracks, because he knows they're going to connect it.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So, like, in his heart of hearts, he knows he has some culpability here, 100%. But he's going to say to us that, I can't understand why anybody thinks I had anything to do with this.

[Patrick Hines]

Or I'm so misunderstood, or I was doing the right thing for these kids and, oh, my God, like, there'll be some stupid excuse or whatever.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So then the former principal also describes, quote, drama behind the scenes.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

There was some drama that was going on behind the scenes. There had been some bullying that had occurred online directed at Wesley.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

All the rumors that come out about, you know, oh, he was being bullied. The kid was not hated. The kid was never bullied.

[Jillian Benzavale]

In Jordan's opinion, the principal is making up an excuse as to why Wesley needed his help. And Jordan's like, no, that. That's not a thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Or why Wesley took his own life. Because he was depressed, because he was bullied.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, you don't say it when you're talking about. About the day this tragedy happened. You prick.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

God. Where's Trita when you need her?

[Jillian Benzavale]

It is. Honestly, honestly.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's a very. If you watch this or if you decide to watch this, like, just be aware that you're good. You're. You will be like. Your body will respond. Like, when you see the clip of it, you'll go like, whoa. Like, I don't want anyone to see what I'm watching. You know what I mean? You want to, like, cover your screen or something.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Like the video images of them during their hypnosis sessions. Because it's not just that their heads are in his lap. He then gets behind them and, like, puts their bodies next. So he's like spooning them, standing them up and then laying them down. There's so much physical contact.

[Patrick Hines]

He will not stop touching them.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

So the day after Wesley's death, his parents are at school and the former principal is once again downplaying how much he knew their son. And he didn't say that. He worked with him, didn't say that, oh, I hypnotized your son the day of his death. That is a fact. And he doesn't say a word about it. So Wesley's parents, just to be clear about what's happening, Wesley's parents leave school without any idea that the principal. Principal, yes. Was doing private unsanctioned hypnosis sessions with their minor underage child 24 hours before he died. They have no idea that that happened.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And he says when asked by the documentary crew why he didn't tell them, he says, I just answered their question.

[Patrick Hines]

Bullshit.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So a few days later, the former principal calls Wesley's parents. And this conversation is infuriating.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Unbelievable. So he died Friday, this is that Sunday.

[Patrick Hines]

And he doesn't care about them. He doesn't ask them how they are. It is all about him and his career.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he comes clean about the hypnosis and he's like.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And the reason that you didn't tell him about hypnotizing this student the day before he died was because you were worried about how that would look as to whether you were responsible for his death or not. Isn't that true?

[Former Principal George Kenney]

True.

[Patrick Hines]

I didn't tell you sooner because I know it's going to look really bad. Also, there's an article coming out about all this. Like, just a heads up. Talk to you later. So this is the first, this fucking phone call is the first time that Wesley's parents are learning anything about hypnosis.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And my note right there, this right here, has me screaming as a parent, if I found out that my kid who killed himself.

[Patrick Hines]

You're going through the worst thing that's ever happened to you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And now the principal that I've had three conversations with over the last two days is telling me today that he's been doing private hypnosis therapy sessions with my dead kid and giving you a.

[Patrick Hines]

Heads up to make it all about himself.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Like, once again, all I would be thinking about is you were in the head of my kid who then went home and killed himself.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. You're the principal.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It is a direct correlation you were dealing in the area where the mental health lives.

[Patrick Hines]

You're also not qualified for this. Like this guy, he wants it every way he can have it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And it gets worse because the parents come to school to meet with him on Monday. So they. So Wesley dies on Friday. They get the call about the article on Sunday. Monday morning, the parents should up at school. The principal pulls out binders full of notes telling them he's using these students as guinea pigs for his research. And also he's got tapes and CDs of hypnotherapy that you can buy on Amazon for $11.

[Patrick Hines]

This is all very real and official and don't worry about it. And Peggy, the mom is like, are you seriously trying to sell me a book right now? Literally, she says, my son is dead because of you. I want to slow down on this for a second because that definitely wasn't in any permission slip or anything. So now you're using these kids without anyone knowing, like they're at school.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You're taking them out of class to like profit off of them. And you're doing your like, study and getting your data with their heads in your lap.

[Jillian Benzavale]

If I found out not only that you're doing hypnosis on my daughter, but you're also video recording it without my consent, I like, we are going to learn that the town comes to the defense of this guy. The school comes to the. These families of these dead kids are left to fend for themselves after their children have been so egregiously violated in all of these different ways.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Then we learn.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, she's mad today, girl.

[Patrick Hines]

Good. Fuck this guy.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So we learn about Brittany Palumbo. It's three weeks after Wesley's death, which was not long after Marcus's death.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Brittany Palumbo dies by suicide.

[Jillian Benzavale]

This is all within the span of three months.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says, he says to us today, not, oh my God, what a tragedy. Not, oh my God, what can I do? Not, Not. Wow, I should I. I really love hypnosis, but clearly I have to figure out a bit like, like nothing. Right?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

He says, I hadn't realized that I had worked with Britney. Cause it had been five months. When I looked back in my notebook, there was a page for her.

[Patrick Hines]

I was shocked because it happened like five months before. First of all, bullshit. Second of all, your research is bullshit because like Dr. Ann Burgess knows her fucking victims names.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, like knows that she's getting her data from and her research. Do you know what I'm saying 100%. And like, and also like, is it because you don't really care about the girls?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Is a question that I have.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean, it is a 100% valid and fair question.

[Patrick Hines]

So for him to say, I know these kids, I was helping these kids, I got their kids grades, but then say, I didn't even realize, I didn't know Britney because it was five months ago.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Shouldn't you really care about all of your patients?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Students, you're this. Shouldn't you know Britney's story backwards and forward?

[Jillian Benzavale]

He's crying about Marcus. He's crying about Wesley. No tears for Britney.

[Patrick Hines]

He didn't even remember her. Or did he? Or like, that's probably bullshit to distance himself from it. But I don't fudgeing like it either way.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what I mean. Either way it's bad.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And he's telling us that his last hypnosis session with her was five months ago. Why do we believe that? Why do we believe him?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't. You know, because what happens is. And like all of these kids just wanted help.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And if he was a good principal, he would have said, I'm going to help you find those resources. I'm not qualified for that. I don't have those credentials. I don't have the license, but I'm going to get you where you need to be.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Because Britney went to her principal for college guidance.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Patty and Mike are Britney's parents. And they're thinking, like, we are so invested in her life. Like, how did we not see the signs? Like, they're feeling all of this guilt as her parents. Like, we thought we were doing it right.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, how, how did this happen? And she was trying really hard. And like, she wanted to go to college because she wanted to be a teacher. She wanted a pointer for her birthday present when she was a kid.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Like, totally.

[Patrick Hines]

She was so. And they just can't understand, like, how this happened.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And so it was the guidance counselor that came to the principal and said, my stud Brittany needs something to help her get through the SATs.

[Patrick Hines]

And so can we abolish SATs and standardized testing?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Bullshit.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Please. They are such a hundred percent.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And so Britney did go to her mom begging to be allowed to work with the principal, Kenny. And so the mom calls up the principal and he assures the mom that he can help her relax. That's what he's promising. I can help her relax when she takes the SATs. And she will perform Better because she.

[Patrick Hines]

Was smart, she had great grades. It was the standardized testing that was an issue. And then because she want so badly she'd be anxious. So he's saying she's got everything going for her anyway. I'm just gonna teach her some self soothing techniques so that she can take the test and not feel so anxious and then whatever. But the mom's like, I didn't like.

[Derek]

The idea, I didn't want the idea. But yet my daughter had worked hard enough on her own and having her literally in tears begging me. I called George Kenney on the telephone and I spoke with him and he assured me that he thought that he could help her to relax.

[Patrick Hines]

But Britney was like begging her, like, I really, I need help, like please, please, please, please, please.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And the mom agrees to it only because the mom is going to be in the room when it happens.

[Patrick Hines]

And the mom, you're like, okay, your kid's begging me for help. Other students were doing it. He's the principal, it's free. You want to help your kid. She's crying like she's, you know, like, what are you going to say to her?

[Jillian Benzavale]

I would say no.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I understand why.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I'm not blaming Britney's mom. I have only sympathy and empathy. I am not blaming them. And maybe I would only say no after having like the experience of watching this documentary. But like, I would definitely not allow this and Steve would definitely not allow this.

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing is though, Patty the mom is very involved because she was like, I'm going to be in the room. And if that's a problem, then we have a bigger problem.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And the principal is like, that's totally fine. So she knew it was going to be filmed. She knew whatever. And she was there with her daughter while this session, whatever you want to call it, it was happening.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Patty the mom describes the session.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And we see it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like Britney was slumped all the way over in the chair, very similar to the boys. I'm sure it was a little different when her mother was there and she was in that position for eight to ten minutes. And her mom says that in the session, Britney is told, if you ever feel anxious or confused, just blink your eyes rapidly and you will enter a calm and relaxed state. Which is like a technique for if you have trouble falling asleep. This is. He didn't like make that up entirely, but like he googled something great, right? I Googled things 100 times a day. You want a medal, right? So in the deposition though, the former principal will say that Britney's mother is lying about that. Another lie from another parent.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right. I just want to also say maybe I've already said this, but like, it is very hard to watch the position that these kids are in. Like anything, they are folded in half. Yeah, they are. They lose all ability to hold their bodies up and they are folded in half.

[Patrick Hines]

They like collapse into him.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Patti, Britney's mom says, we.

[Derek]

Were walking out to the car, I asked her if her bag bothered her. And I said to be bent over like you were. And she said, bent over. And I said, yes, the way you were sitting in the chair. She said, mom, I was never bent over. So that stopped me in my tracks.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Bent over like what? She had no memory of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Zero.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And that was the moment that I was like, these boys are disassociated from their bodies. They don't know what is happening to their bodies when they're under like this and that.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's very alarming to Britney's mom, as it should be. And also like, okay, so then she'll just. And again, if this is how hypnosis works, I don't know. I'm actually asking the question. But like, so when she starts to feel anxiety, she'll just know in the test what to do.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Uh huh. Like, right, because she doesn't remember anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So is the, like, will he say, does she leave with instructions? Or like, do they talk about it ever?

[Jillian Benzavale]

Like how Steve taught me to put my clothes away and fold my own clothes under hypnosis because I don't remember.

[Patrick Hines]

It, don't do it.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know what I mean? That's how we know hypnosis works, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Totally.

[Jillian Benzavale]

That's when he taught me how to do it. So it's not my fault.

[Patrick Hines]

I can see Steve with a watch. But that is scary because it's very uncomfortable and she didn't remember it. And her mom's like, what? Like, what does this have to do with her? Like, the mom didn't like it to begin with. And I think what, what I'm gathering from Britney's mom is that she didn't like it any better after she sat in on the session.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So we get this like, montage of how crazy this all is. Like, and in the deposition, the former principal keeps saying that he, quote, barely knew these kids. And that's when the lawyer's like, aha. See now that's the problem though, right? Because you're hypnotizing kids with no understanding of their mental state. So even if that's a lie to avoid respons. It's still bad for you because that's.

[Jillian Benzavale]

My question the whole time. What is your intake process?

[Patrick Hines]

Zero.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You're dealing with children, you're dealing with teenagers.

[Patrick Hines]

He's saying that that's he's doing this for his own study, research data, his books, his cd, his whatever. It's not about the kids, never about.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You're getting into their heads, you're messing with their psyches and their emotions without any understanding of what they're actually going through right now.

[Patrick Hines]

And he admits it. He says, I didn't ask them about their emotions. I didn't know what was going on in their lives. And I never consulted a doctor or anybody else. He says as much. It is unconscionable because either again, I'm going to repeat it again, either that's a lie.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's bad. Or it's the truth and it's bad. Either way, it's bad.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly. And like we learned, somebody tells us in here somewhere, the first rule of hypnotherapy is consulting with the patient's doctor.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

The first thing you do is get a full workup on who this person is, what they're dealing with, what not everybody is a good fit for hypnotherapy.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, for example, like there was a lot going on with Britney at the.

[Derek]

Time Brittany and her boyfriend broke up. And she had had this boyfriend for a couple of years and I knew she did care a great deal about him. After she got her SAT scores, she said that was my last chance. She had wanted to get into ucf. She wasn't going to be able to go there.

[Patrick Hines]

She didn't get into the school she wanted and like that was why she was doing hypnosis. He said he'd help her get into her dream school. And she didn't.

[Jillian Benzavale]

No. Getting into that school was everything to her.

[Patrick Hines]

She was devastating.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And she saw hypnosis as her last resort. So when that didn't work, I mean, suicide was the next option for her.

[Patrick Hines]

Or maybe to get in those kids heads, like, this is just not safe.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Absolutely not safe. And so we learned that like they had grad night at Disney World. I love Disney World. And she was having a great time, she was in a good mood. And then a few days later, she dies by suicide.

[Patrick Hines]

I also want to say that this keeps saying, quote, committed suicide, which shows.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, everybody says it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, but like here again, again, like, which is it? Bruh.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you an expert at this or are you not because if you were like, it just shows how out of touch he is that someone who supposedly cares about the well being of these kids. He doesn't give a shit. I'm just saying.

[Jordan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

He would use the right terminology because that would be his life's work.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Right. But also maybe by saying committed suicide, he's trying to make it her fault.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course.

[Jillian Benzavale]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

That's why we don't say that.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

So the day of Britney's death she, her mom tells us what happened. She came home.

[Jillian Benzavale]

This is really brutal.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. She came home at 4pm she said she was gonna take a nap and at 6:30 her mom went upstair get her for dinner and her door was locked. And so they end up getting into Britney's room through her bedroom window. Yeah, she's not. They would. Maybe she's at her desk or sitting on her bed. She's in her closet.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Now at this point in the storytelling the dad has to get up and leave.

[Patrick Hines]

And I like, I good. You know what I mean? Like whatever you have to do. I made that note too though. It was like he just, he couldn't.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He can't do it.

[Patrick Hines]

And I completely.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just so sad. And our mom says we tried to bring her back and you know, it's just so devastating.

[Jillian Benzavale]

The dad says when you find your child like that, that memory never leaves you. By way I got to this point in my taking my notes this morning when I had to go wake up Daisy and I went and held her for five minutes.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my gosh.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I was right here that I had to stop and go wake her up.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I ask you a question?

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Is she over that or is she. Is she at the. Is she. She's not.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean it, it depends on the day. Some days, like our ritual was always I would wake her up, I would carry her out to the living room, we sit on the couch and we listen to two songs and that's what we get to do before we. She has to like start her morning stuff. There are a lot of days now that she insists she's going to walk out and I don't get to carry her. But on mornings when maybe she feels like I need it, she'll still let me carry her. And like this morning I was like, I would not let her go.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, this is not the morning.

[Jillian Benzavale]

This was not the morning.

[Patrick Hines]

Say no, Daisy.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And she was very good about. We got to talk about the hair, like the brushing of the hair. It's just it's becoming so, it's bad, it's becoming such a, like she, like she thinks it's brushed and it isn't. And it's so long and thick and beautiful. But like, not when it, like it's got to be taken. We, I need help. I, I, I need help.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And then it's like a constant fight for me. I can't talk, I can't do this right now.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay?

[Jillian Benzavale]

We got a lot going.

[Patrick Hines]

So like what the parents are saying is that this is the third death in like six to eight weeks.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I cannot, this is when I'm like, this is a movie. This is a bad, dark black comedy. Like it's Heather's where people just keep.

[Patrick Hines]

Dying and the parents are like things.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Were happening way too quickly.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like another one.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Kids actually were thinking, oh man, am I next? We'd never seen something like this before.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

It felt like the school in this group, like couldn't catch a break. The entire atmosphere was just impossible, rough.

[Patrick Hines]

People are wondering who is going to be next. Yes, that should, that stopped me in my face.

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's like a fucking horror movie.

[Patrick Hines]

And the former principal is like, oh, tell me about it. I'm the one who had to keep making the announcements and talking to the counselors. Poor me.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Patty and Mike, Britney's parents say, oh yeah, the former principal came to the student. And at that point they allowed it. They don't know anything. They're grieving, they're not thinking about, they're not making that connection yet.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And so he had to leave. Leave early though. Do you want to know why?

[Jillian Benzavale]

To go perform another hypnosis session.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding?

[Jillian Benzavale]

It's just crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

And Patty says that was my last conversation with him. And I'm like, hey asshole, can we slow down on the hypnosis? Do you have to announce it to Britney's parents? I know, at the fucking funeral. I know of this girl like just about to start her life. I just. But then even worse, this guy, the fucking lack of boundaries and the, the, the self involved bullshit.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I know because he calls one of the families he calls Britney's brother, right? He doesn't call the parents, he calls Britney's brother to let him know that there's going to be an article coming out about connecting his work with hypnosis with these kids with their deaths.

[Patrick Hines]

So don't answer the phone, don't answer the door, don't talk to the press.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And no, I would not like to talk to your parents. I'D like you to relay the message.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, Jesus, this guy is way too familiar with the kids.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh yeah, it's all way too casual.

[Patrick Hines]

I know you're calling Britney'. Brother.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I've talked about this before. We had a teacher like this in my high school, and as far as I know, nothing bad ever happened. But this teacher was way, way too close with the kids too much. It was like the kids of all years would hang out in his room before and after school. He had like an open door policy. Like, it was just. I remember being freaked out by it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's weird. And this guy, the principal, is lying in the article. So in the article he says he never hypnotized Britney, which he 100% did, but he called the family, Family, Britney's brother, to warn them about the article and then lies in the article and in the deposition, he's like, I totally lied in that article. And when asked why, he was like, I was stressed out.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I mean, right. Like he's. That's the great thing about being under oath, I guess, right?

[Patrick Hines]

I guess. But here's where we learn something pretty shocking.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And this is big.

[Patrick Hines]

We learn how Wesley and Britney were found.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yes, these were the two that died by suicide.

[Patrick Hines]

They were kneeling. They were kneeling all the way forward and they. This is so hard. I'm sorry. And they shook, strangled themselves. It's the same position from the sessions, the one they were in for like minutes on end that they didn't remember that they were in. Yes, it's that like sometimes whole sessions, sometimes 10, 15 minutes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

And it makes you wonder, did they get themselves into a state of hypnosis in which they knew that they would not have any control over their bodies.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Because the autopsy shows that there wasn't a struggle.

[Derek]

A person, when they put something around their neck, their knee jerk, we reaction is to at the last minute grab it and would bruise on the neck that wasn't there.

[Jillian Benzavale]

They're saying, like, if you were to hang yourself by a rope from like a door jamb, that like, they often will find these people with bruising around their neck. Because at the last minute, instinctively, you're trying to rip the rope away from your neck and that causes bruising. These kids did not have that. They did not struggle.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is also when Britney's dad, Mike gets up and leaves the room and. Good. I mean, I really mean that. Like, take your space, Mike. Yes, but like, like we're told that they didn't fight it and that is just not natural, like, scientifically. It's just not a natural way to be.

[Jillian Benzavale]

What it says to me is that these kids knew they could get themselves into a state of hypnosis where they would not struggle, they would not have control over their bodies. A state that they learned from principal Kenny.

[Patrick Hines]

So while I'm not saying that he introduced this idea to them.

[Jordan]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then they decided, oh, well, my teacher told me to do this. No. But I think he helped them get to a place perhaps we're gonna learn.

[Jillian Benzavale]

In episode three, which we'll. You'll all hear next week or you can get right now on the Patreon that hypnosis, and we learned this from a real hypnotherapist. Hypnosis cannot make you do something to yourself that you did not want to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

But it can take one of your darker demons that maybe you do want to harm yourself and make that a bigger thought. That, in my mind, is what happened here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He took the thought of suicide to them, became real through hypnosis. And they realized that they could do it in a way where they would not have control over their own bodies to stop themselves.

[Patrick Hines]

And heard. But in the next episode, we're going to get into the legal aspect of this because what does that mean on paper?

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

And can he, quote, get away with.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Bottom line, if this man was not in these kids lives, they would still be alive today, in my opinion.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree. I think it's wildly inappropriate no matter what happens.

[Jordan]

Yes.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Oh, my God, girl. All right, we did episodes one and two of look into my eyes. So our second episode covering episodes three and four is available right now ad free on the Patreon. If you want to go hear the rest of the ranting and raving, you can hear it right now. Otherwise it will be our regular episode on the regular feed next week.

[Patrick Hines]

That's right.

[Jillian Benzavale]

So we have no trailer for you to listen to.

[Patrick Hines]

No, but we might have. I don't know if there is a trailer. If they have, like next time on I know they have a Previously on Yeah, so I guess we'll see.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Give them the next time on all right, fam. We love you. Get out of here.

[Patrick Hines]

Love you.

[Jillian Benzavale]

All right, bye.

[Derek]

Wesley died April 8, and then Brittany died in May. And they both were down, kneeling and leaned forward and hung themselves. Our principal is hypnotizing kids. And then three kids died. And very coincidentally, they all were hypnotized by George Kenney.

[Wesley or Brittany's Friend]

When all this happened, there was no numerous kids saying they'll never come back to school until Dr. Kinney is gone. It went fast, quick.

[Jillian Benzavale]

I guess it's easy to say that he did something wrong if you don't know him.

[Patrick Hines]

There were things going on that should have either been stopped or brought to someone's attention.

[Derek]

You know, we can go back and forth whether or not hypnosis had anything to do with it, because I know a lot of people wanted to blame Dr. Kinney, but I also know a lot of people had his back on it. There was a lot of people that didn't blame him.

[Former Principal George Kenney]

There was conversation going on behind the scenes at the District Attorney's office about pressing charges.