451: Murder Has Two Faces: Capitol Killings

Summary

True Crime Obsessed, Episode 451: Murder Has Two Faces: Capitol Killings

Released: September 4, 2025

Overview

This episode recaps "Murder Has Two Faces," episode two "Capitol Killings," which centers on the overlooked 1999 disappearance and murder of Joyce Chang, a Taiwanese-American attorney in Washington D.C. Hosts Patrick and Julian Beal, with appearances by Robin Roberts (the docu-series host), discuss how Joyce's story was nearly lost in the mainstream media, especially compared to the simultaneous (and far more publicized) Chandra Levy case. The episode digs into issues of media bias, racism, advocacy, and the heartbreak of a family fighting for attention and justice.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction and Podcast Tone

• Casual Banter and Tone: Patrick and Julian kick off with friendly humor about laundry mishaps and the nostalgia of voice messages, immediately establishing their signature mix of sass, warmth, and heart. (00:00–02:00)
• Setting the Stage: The episode is framed as part of a victim-focused true crime documentary series, lauded as the "gold standard" for how to tell such stories with care for the victims and their families. (01:59, Patrick: “There is actually a formula to proving that you're victim focused. And this is... the gold standard, 100%.”)

2. Joyce Chang: Life, Character, and Legacy

• Joyce’s Ambition & Kindness: Friends and family describe Joyce as hard-working, president of Smith College, juggling law school at Georgetown while working on Capitol Hill, and always caring about others over herself (02:23–12:02).
• Bridging Two Cultures: Joyce and her friends, as second-generation Americans, navigated both their parents' immigrant identity and their own American upbringing (10:56, Julian: "You have one foot in both cultures...bridging the two.").
• Endearing Voicemails: Multiple heartfelt “phone mails” from Joyce are played, offering listeners a visceral connection to her voice and personality (02:12, 09:56). "She left the best voicemail...her friends are like, oh, that’s kind of her thing." (10:13, Julian)

3. Background: Racism and the “Two Washingtons”

• Family’s Racialization: Roger, Joyce’s brother, recalls their family's experience as the only Asian family in a Chicago suburb – harassment, cherry bombs in the mailbox, rocks through windows (07:36, Roger: "We weren't safe walking home from school. And me being her younger brother, Joyce was my protector.").
• D.C.’s Dangerous Reputation: At the time, Washington D.C. was the “murder capital of the world,” complicating missing persons cases and media triage (05:58–07:02).

4. Joyce’s Disappearance and the Slow Search

• Timeline: Joyce went missing Saturday, January 9, 1999, last seen near Dupont Circle’s Starbucks. Her busy lifestyle and shared apartment delayed her absence being immediately noticed (14:42–15:09, Roger: "I didn't suspect anything until Sunday night...").
• Family and Friends Mobilize: Joyce’s loved ones begin a phone chain, hanging flyers, and organizing weekly vigils, yet major media attention is lacking (15:19–22:35).
• Delayed Law Enforcement Response: Questions arise about whether race and distrust in the police factored into the Chang family’s approach and official response speed (16:21, Patrick and Julian discuss hesitation to involve the police due to being non-white).

5. Media Bias and the Chandra Levy Comparison

• Disparity in Coverage: Naomi Ishisaka, a journalist, points to race and class biases dictating whose missing persons cases “merit” coverage. Joyce’s disappearance was overlooked, while white intern Chandra Levy’s similar case obsessed the national press two years later. (17:35–18:44)
  • Quote: "When it comes to Asian Americans, I think we're largely invisible." – Naomi Ishisaka (17:35)
• Salacious Details and Sensational Coverage: The Levys' connection to prominent political figures and an alleged affair made that case “newsworthy,” further illustrating systemic privilege (18:29–18:44, Patrick: “White people are always going to get more coverage…”).

6. Investigative Developments

• Police & FBI Timeline:
  • Days pass before the FBI is involved. The workplace connection lets Joyce’s case skip local police and go straight to the FBI. (16:34–17:18)
  • Initial searches—including the family-led effort—yield no leads; Joyce’s routine and accounts present no clues.
  • Graffiti Discovery: Roger finds alarming graffiti (“Good day, J.C. may I never miss the thrill of being near you”), but it’s determined to be an unrelated Jesus Christ reference (19:03–19:36).
• Stereotypes Hampering Investigation:
  • Roger is asked by the FBI profiler if Joyce “kept money under her mattress because we’re Asian” (21:10), highlighting harmful, distracting stereotypes.
  • Naomi: "They [authorities] made assumptions about her life because she was Asian...They didn't say she was a lawyer. They didn't say she was American...All of these assumptions...delayed the entire case." (21:47–22:04)

7. Discovery and Forensics

• Crucial Break:
  • 12 days after her disappearance, Washington’s FBI reports finding Joyce’s items (jacket, keys, gloves, Blockbuster card, Safeway card) scattered on the banks of the Anacostia River, far from Dupont Circle (27:29–28:03).
  • Jacket found with torn sleeve inside out, indicating she was “pulled out of her jacket,” possibly during an escape or struggle (28:46–29:19).
• Body Recovery and Challenges:
  • Forensic teams face hazardous, polluted conditions diving in D.C.’s rivers. Another (unnamed) body is found before Joyce’s remains are eventually located three months later in the Potomac River (30:07–31:31).

8. Aftermath: Lack of Closure and Systemic Indifference

• Vigils and Fading Hope: Despite incessant advocacy—"I couldn't walk around D.C. without my sister staring back at me" (36:23, Roger)—media and police attention wanes after Joyce’s body is found (36:48–37:13).
• Contrasting Case Resolutions:
  • Chandra Levy’s disappearance and murder practically halt city life with coverage, but Joyce’s is already cold by then.
  • Authorities float a suicide theory for Joyce based on racial stereotypes about “losing face”—a notion debunked and criticized on air (39:23–40:03).
  • Quote: “...It’s rude. It’s insulting. It victimizes Joyce all over again. It traumatizes her family...” – Julian (39:56–40:04)
• Final Investigation “Resolution”:
  • 13 years later, police email Roger that two drug-using suspects robbed Joyce, drove her to Anacostia, and she either jumped in or was pushed into the river (42:38, Roger). The case is officially ruled a homicide but never prosecuted. (44:01–44:43)
  • Quote: “They solved it, but nothing happened...these two guys are just walking around out there knowing they got away with murder.” – Patrick (44:45–44:53)

9. Remembering Joyce and Broader Reflections

• Memorializing Joyce: Episode ends with friends recounting Joyce's positive spirit—her phrase “Be happy and smile”—and one final voicemail of her singing about happiness (45:19–45:24).
• Robin Roberts’ Empathy: The hosts highlight Robin’s emotional, attentive interviewing style as a model for victim-centered storytelling (45:41–46:47, Patrick: "To take that moment with him to say, hey, you just did something really hard...now people know about her. That's why you're here.").
• Epilogue: On-screen text informs listeners that the main suspects were never charged—one now serving life for another crime, the other at-large (“Neil Walken; his whereabouts are unknown” – 47:04–47:13).

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:43–02:10: Episode and series introduction; “Murder Has Two Faces” context
• 02:12–10:19: Joyce’s character and life through friends’ memories and voicemails
• 11:16–13:12: Joyce’s academic/professional achievements and barriers faced as a second-generation Taiwanese-American
• 14:42–17:18: Joyce’s disappearance and initial search efforts
• 17:35–18:44: Naomi Ishisaka discusses media bias and victim “merit”
• 19:21–22:35: Roger’s advocacy; cultural stereotypes hampering investigation
• 27:29–29:19: Discovery of Joyce’s belongings and indications of struggle
• 31:36–36:32: Prolonged investigation, police/media apathy, and environmental sidebar
• 36:48–38:56: Vigils, found body, and continuing contrast to Chandra Levy case
• 42:38–44:43: Official “resolution” and lack of justice
• 45:19–47:13: Closing moments, tributes to Joyce, and final acknowledgments

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "There is actually a formula to proving that you're victim focused. And this is... the gold standard, 100%.” – Patrick (01:59)
• “Joyce was my protector.” – Roger (07:36)
• "[Joyce] ran that campus... She was the college president, but also the life of the party. She had it all." – Amy (09:43)
• "When it comes to Asian Americans, I think we're largely invisible." – Naomi Ishisaka (17:35)
• “We did a search of Roger and Joyce's apartment...and [the FBI profiler] asked me if Joyce kept money under her mattress because we're Asian.” – Roger (21:10)
• “It's rude. It's insulting. It victimizes Joyce all over again.” – Julian (39:56)
• “To take that moment with him to say, hey, you just did something really hard...now people know about her. That's why you're here.” – Patrick (46:11)
• “The two suspects believed responsible for the murder...have never been charged. One of them is serving a life sentence for a prior conviction and the other, his whereabouts are unknown.” – On-screen text (47:04)

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The Episode’s Heart & Highlights

• Robin Roberts’ Emotional Care: Her tears and sensitivity in hosting/interviewing stand as a model for future crime reporting (45:41–46:47).
• Family and Friendship in Advocacy: The tenacity of Roger and Joyce’s friends—endless vigils, outreach, media attempts—is depicted with admiration and heartbreak (36:17–36:48).
• Media Racism and “Missing White Woman Syndrome”: The episode draws a powerful parallel between Joyce Chang and Chandra Levy, laying bare how race drives public and police urgency.
• Resolution Without Justice: The Chang family’s only solace is official homicide acknowledgment, as actual justice evades them and the main suspects remain free or untried (44:43–47:04).

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Final Thoughts

This deeply empathetic, incisive episode holds up a mirror to the disparities and failures in the criminal justice system and media, powerfully centering Joyce Chang’s story through laughter, remembrance, and righteous indignation. It reaffirms the importance—and difficulty—of truly victim-centered storytelling in true crime. Robin Roberts, the hosts, and especially Roger Chang, remind listeners of the humanity and dignity too often lost when the headlines turn elsewhere.

Transcript

[Patrick]

I'm wearing a white T shirt today and I have not spilled anything on it yet.

[Julian Beal]

Great job.

[Patrick]

It's kind of shocking.

[Julian Beal]

That's, like, impossible.

[Patrick]

I don't know how this has happened. I've been leaning very far over my desk.

[Julian Beal]

That's impossible, like, for everybody. This isn't a. You know what I mean? Like, how are you doing this?

[Patrick]

I don't know how everybody doesn't ruin all of their clothes all of the time.

[Julian Beal]

I know.

[Patrick]

It makes no sense to me.

[Julian Beal]

I had a shirt come out of the washing machine with a stain on it.

[Patrick]

Did I tell you that I got home from my last round of shows and I had left a Sharpie in my jeans pocket. I destroyed, like, half of the clothes that I own.

[Julian Beal]

It's a nightmare. I was not that shirt, but not that there.

[Patrick]

Hi, Julian Beal.

[Julian Beal]

Hello, Patrick. Hi, fam.

[Patrick]

Welcome to our bonus episode.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. This is our 11th one of the year.

[Patrick]

Wow.

[Julian Beal]

I know.

[Patrick]

Well, tell me what we're talking about today.

[Julian Beal]

So this is that very important show that we love, Murder Has Two Faces.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

This is the second episode. Don't worry. There are only three episodes. We're doing all of them.

[Patrick]

That's it. I know it's wild because Robin Roberts is the host here. She's so sobbing in the end.

[Julian Beal]

I know.

[Patrick]

In the end she's sobbing. I'm sobbing. The brothers, we're all sobbing.

[Julian Beal]

So this is episode two. It's called Capital Killings. And this is the murder of Joyce Chang.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Who everybody says her name wrong. It's horrible.

[Julian Beal]

Well, they say it so many different times in different ways. And her brother never says it.

[Patrick]

I know, but it's Chang. But so many people say Chung. Like, it really bothers me.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So we open with Robin Robert. She's sitting down with Joyce Chang's brother, Roger. He is wonderful. He's such an advocate for his sister. They were so close. And like, as a member of a sibling, say that that's not always the case.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

You know what I mean?

[Julian Beal]

But we get, like at the top of this, that on screen text where it sort of lays out what.

[Patrick]

What we're doing here.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. So it says this is the story of two crimes. Two young women, so alike, working in our nation's capital, both connected to men in power. One woman, Chandra Levy, is a household name. The second. Oh, my God, I'm going to cry. The second woman is a mystery that deserves to be unraveled. Her name is Joyce Chang. And it's like, why is this only three episodes?

[Patrick]

I know. I can only imagine they're going to do more like so many shows come out now claiming to be like victim focused. There is actually a formula to proving that you're victim focused. And this is.

[Julian Beal]

This is it.

[Patrick]

This is it. The gold standard, 100%.

[Julian Beal]

And this episode starts with Joyce's voice. Message four was received at 2:20pm Thursday. It's Joyce just trying to say hi. Anyway, I hope you're having a good day and I'll talk to you later. Bye. It's so jarring, but not. It's just like, oh, she's here.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

With us. What was that point of the show?

[Patrick]

It is unsettling because it's like when you know what is about to happen to the person. It's brutal.

[Julian Beal]

Right?

[Patrick]

So we meet Judy Kim. She was Joyce's best friend in college. She and Joyce had so many dreams. They began their careers in D.C. and they wanted to like move to New York together. We're gonna learn. Like, Joyce was the president of her class at Smith. She gets this like incredible internship while she's working a full time job on top of it. And was like so amazing and lovely and supportive and like didn't want to ever talk about herself. She wanted to talk about her friends and like just an amazing woman.

[Julian Beal]

She loved her friends. All, you know, hearing. That's not the only voicemail or phone mail, as she calls it.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

That we hear. She loved her friends.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

The fact that she's leaving cute voicemails. Oh. For people. Is like, oh, that tells me everything you need to know about.

[Patrick]

And it really was like, I remember in college the whole voicemail game, like you could just dial direct to people. People's voicemail and just leave the messages without their phone ever ringing.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, so fun.

[Patrick]

People would just like wake up in the morning to like messages from you. That's very fun. It's like. It's like a Valentine's Day thing almost.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, my God. It's such a thing of the past now.

[Patrick]

Such a thing.

[Julian Beal]

Unless. Voice memos. Now we've come all the way back around.

[Patrick]

That's true. I still feel self conscious about leaving your voice memos because I can't decide if you like that.

[Julian Beal]

Don't. I'm into them now.

[Patrick]

You are. Okay.

[Julian Beal]

The only thing. You know what I had to let.

[Patrick]

Go of the need to respond.

[Julian Beal]

Yes. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I responded with a voice memo, sometimes I don't.

[Patrick]

I never did anyone read the transcript for me. It's like my thumbs are t. I Like, I can't. That's a lot of information I got to give you.

[Julian Beal]

I know.

[Patrick]

And I don't need to call you.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

And. But I'm not going to, like, I'm not going to send you a whoop that's, like, this long.

[Julian Beal]

No, I'm super into them now.

[Patrick]

Okay, good. You're looking very directly.

[Julian Beal]

I love them. Okay, well, because I left one today.

[Patrick]

Oh, you did? For me?

[Julian Beal]

No.

[Patrick]

Oh, for who?

[Julian Beal]

Well, I'm hosting this Burr event on.

[Patrick]

Thursday, Aaron Burr from Hamilton. Because Jillian is a. Is a fudgeing Hamilton icon. And as the Hamilcast pot. You're so. What's the word I want you to Fudgeing. Talk about how awesome this is.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick]

She was asked by the Hamilton powers that be to, like, moderate this panel of Aaron Burrs. So she had to call them all or actually leave them voice.

[Julian Beal]

I left three of them a voice memo because I was letting them know that at that event. Now it's in the past, I can say it. That I will be announcing the end of the Hamilcast at that event. 10 years and 500 episodes.

[Patrick]

Is this the first our listeners are hearing of it? Yeah, I've known about it, obviously.

[Julian Beal]

I mean, I made the decision last year.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

I told Lynn and everyone in February.

[Patrick]

Wow.

[Julian Beal]

So I've been sitting on it for a long time.

[Patrick]

10 years.

[Julian Beal]

It's really exciting.

[Patrick]

Decayed.

[Julian Beal]

It's super bittersweet. But it feels right. And I've been saying, if it's not 10 years and 500 episodes, it's going to be 20 years and a thousand episodes, because what other way? It just sounds right, you know? So anyway, that's the voice memo I.

[Patrick]

Left today in Incredible Girl and Fam. So much more about that to come because we're going to be blowing this up.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, thanks. Look, this is a celebration. This is a party.

[Patrick]

Oh, one. That's what I mean.

[Julian Beal]

Like, this is a party. So, yeah. Anyway, this is not about me. This is about Joyce today.

[Patrick]

Well, actually, can we talk about Eddie Dean, the journalist? Because at the time of Joyce's murder, he was working for the Washington City Paper. And I remember newspapers. I loved newspapers. Yeah, I love that, like, in New York, you could get on the subway and somebody would hand you a paper and you could get it, like, on the subway and, like, read the morning news on the.

[Julian Beal]

On a Sunday, Mike. And I'll, like, get a paper.

[Patrick]

Well, see if it's the weekender. So we'll get it, like, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, I think.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And Daily News.

[Patrick]

You read the Daily News?

[Julian Beal]

Mike does, yeah.

[Patrick]

I love it.

[Julian Beal]

Once in a while he wants to.

[Patrick]

Know what's going on out in the.

[Julian Beal]

Hamptons on a Sunday. Sometimes he or, like, News Day. Not the Post, Never.

[Patrick]

Oh, I miss newspapers. But anyway, we learn, and I didn't know this, that in the early 90s, D.C. was the murder capital. Of the country.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. Of the world. I thought it said.

[Patrick]

You're right. I wrote country, and then I quickly had to read, refresh and write World.

[Julian Beal]

You're right.

[Patrick]

But, yeah, I mean, like, you know, you go to D.C. today. I mean, not literally today, where it's like, under martial law, D.C. fam. We see you.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick]

But, like, you know, dc, like, you go to DC and it's like, there's just, like, school groups. You know what I mean? Everyone's going to the Lincoln Memorial.

[Julian Beal]

Right. Everyone's, like, learning about the country.

[Patrick]

When I just did my DC show, people were like, are you taking Daisy to this? I'm like, no, she's not here. But, like, that's what D.C. is known for. Like, you. You go there to, like, go to the free museums and, like, learn shit.

[Julian Beal]

Well, back in the day, Lauren Ashburn, the reporter, says, I was the police beat reporter for several years. We chose which murders to cover based on how shocking they were. It was sometimes difficult to choose.

[Patrick]

What's that is wild in the 90s in DC.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. So it's January 9th, 1999. Joyce disappears from Dupont Circle.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So Dupont Circle now is like the gay area. That Starbucks is still there, by the way.

[Julian Beal]

Really?

[Patrick]

I'm not a D.C. expert, but I should say, the last time I was there, there was a Starbucks in Dupont Circle that looked like this one. So I'm imagining it's still the same place, but, like, Dupont Circle is like a hoity toity, you know, kind of a fancy area.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And so Roger tells us more about his sister Joyce, one of the most loving, caring human beings in the world. You could hear it in her voice. Like, when we do hear her voice, he says, you know, they had two parents, four kids, they emigrated from Taiwan.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Settled down in the suburbs of Chicago. And then he tells us we were.

[Roger]

The only minority family and the neighbors hated us. They threw rocks through our windows. They put cherry bombs in our mailboxes. We weren't safe walking home from school. And me being her younger brother, Joyce was my protector.

[Julian Beal]

Why are people like this?

[Patrick]

It doesn't make. It really, really doesn't make any sense.

[Julian Beal]

The step, like, the thought Pro. I don't understand how you go from waking up in the morning to saying, I'm gonna cherry bomb my neighbors because they're Asian.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Julian Beal]

I just. I can't get. I. I don't understand how you get there. No, the hatred.

[Patrick]

I had the exact same thought. Also. Where does one get a cherry bomb?

[Julian Beal]

I don't know. You gotta miss.

[Patrick]

It's a cherry bomb.

[Julian Beal]

I don't know, but it's horrifying.

[Patrick]

I can make a cherry bomb.

[Julian Beal]

I think so. You can't, like, go buy a bomb while you're making them.

[Patrick]

I guess that's right. I hope so.

[Julian Beal]

I know there's the murder aisle in Walmart, but they. They do draw the line somewhere. Somewhere they just give you all the things you need to make the thing.

[Patrick]

There was a cherry bomb cocktail at that barbecue restaurant in Times Square.

[Julian Beal]

Cherry bomb.

[Patrick]

And it would come with, like, a shot of rum at the top. Mike Jensen and I used to go and, like, ingested 2,000 calories for, like, the frozen cherry bomb cocktail.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick]

I know. Like, two or three of them. Wow, that's a lot of calories. I know.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

You're. You're eating, like, bad delicious barbecue and drinking cherry bombs.

[Julian Beal]

Have fun. I don't. Don't count calories. It's no. It's no fun.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Julian Beal]

Don't do.

[Patrick]

For what he was saying, like, walk. Even walking home from school wasn't safe.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

And Joyce was his big sister, so, like, she was the protector.

[Julian Beal]

And so like Roger says, my parents.

[Roger]

My mom in particular, would just be, like, just be better. She pushed us to excel in school because she wanted us to be able to fly in life.

[Patrick]

Boy, did Joyce take that and run with it.

[Julian Beal]

Seriously, she was amazing. So we meet one of her other friends, Amy.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

They were both government majors at Smith. And we have old video of Joyce talking about her college because she was the president of Smith College. Smith College, that is.

[Patrick]

Smith College is one of the hardest colleges. It's an all women's college, you know, up in Amherst. I think it is such a hard school. It is, like, one of the best schools in the country.

[Julian Beal]

Amy says, oh, she ran that campus. Joyce ran it. She goes. She was the college president, but also the life of the party. She had it all.

[Patrick]

And she was just like, super ambitious, but not one of those, like, annoying ambitious people. Like, she cared about other people's experiences too.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And we get another one of her voicemails, Joyce. And I'm studying, and I'm sick and tired of studying. And I thought I'd call you. And guess what? I want to sing into your phone now. Like, I don't know what to say because I have a practice that's a long time. Because all her friends are like, oh, she left the best voicemail.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Like, kind of her thing.

[Patrick]

I got to tell you, that is like a real badge of honor in like, 90s college.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

You know what I mean?

[Julian Beal]

She got creative because she's like this stream of consciousness, like, so sweet. She just adored her life and her friends.

[Patrick]

Like, back then, before cell phones, like, we all had those, like, whiteboards on the outside of our dorm rooms, too. Like, you just, like, leave notes for each other. Oh, my God. When I worked at Starbucks in Harvard Square and I got in trouble because I once in one weekend called to check my voicemail, I think over 200 times.

[Julian Beal]

Okay, that's too much. That's too much.

[Patrick]

That is too many times. In retrospect. That is too many times. But, like, I was desperate to hear messages from my friends. It was like my favorite thing.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, you just want to hear their voice.

[Patrick]

Yeah, that's cute.

[Julian Beal]

Judy says she wants to be just like her. She wants to be just like Joyce.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Well, and Judy tells us that they were both. Both she and Joyce were second generation. Like, they were born here, but with immigrants for parents. And so she said you have one foot in both cultures. Like, one foot in, like, the culture that the parents were raised in and one foot in this American culture. And I bet that's tough because she says.

[Julian Beal]

And you're bridging the two.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

You know?

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

And so Joyce, listen to this.

[Patrick]

This is insane.

[Julian Beal]

Joyce, after being amazing at Smith and being the president, she goes to Georgetown Law at night. And by day she was working on Capitol Hill for an unnamed congressman.

[Patrick]

Unnamed congressman.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah, she.

[Julian Beal]

She was working and. Or studying seven days a week. She was non stop.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I mean, that is an insane schedule to like, to go into Georgetown once again, one of the hardest schools to get into in the country, in the world. And then at night, while working on Capitol Hill during the day. I cannot imagine it.

[Julian Beal]

And then just using, I guess, the weekends to study and do all the work.

[Patrick]

Right?

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

You know.

[Patrick]

Oh, my God.

[Julian Beal]

Right. Because they're just talking about it usually, like, you go to school during the day, and then at nighttime you do all the work you have to do. Working during the day, going to school at night.

[Patrick]

Oh, she was.

[Julian Beal]

God, all day, every day. She.

[Patrick]

And it's law school. That's like 10 hours of homework. A night.

[Julian Beal]

And so when she graduated from Georgetown Law, she got a job as an attorney for the Immigration and Naturalization Service. What a terrible fucking name.

[Robin Roberts]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

Natural. Is it like, really?

[Patrick]

I know, really. Immigration and Naturalization Service. I can't do it. I can't say it.

[Julian Beal]

But it's also just like. Can we not use that word?

[Patrick]

Oh, yeah. My God, they still use it to this day.

[Julian Beal]

It's a horrible name.

[Patrick]

Potential to change it.

[Julian Beal]

Please.

[Patrick]

Immigration and Like. Welcome to America.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Why can't we call it that?

[Julian Beal]

A great many reasons.

[Patrick]

Immigration and welcome to America Queen.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Can we do that?

[Julian Beal]

How about just welcome? But I want to. We're not going to hear you.

[Patrick]

I'd like it to be gayer.

[Julian Beal]

Okay, great.

[Patrick]

Welcome to America Mary.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Okay, we can do that. She works for the Immigration and Welcome to America Mary Service.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. Or baby.

[Patrick]

Baby.

[Julian Beal]

To America, baby.

[Patrick]

Oh, I like that. Maybe gay. It's less.

[Julian Beal]

It's less gay. And I don't like it anymore.

[Patrick]

Okay, give me one more gay one.

[Julian Beal]

You said bitch. Yeah, girl.

[Patrick]

Okay, great.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Welcome to America.

[Patrick]

She worked for the Immigration and. Welcome to America girl. Service. Welcome to America, girl. But you got to say it like that.

[Julian Beal]

Okay.

[Patrick]

Can you do it?

[Julian Beal]

Welcome to America, girl. Probably wait a couple of years if you're thinking about doing that.

[Patrick]

Oh, this is not the time.

[Julian Beal]

This is not.

[Patrick]

And will you take us in your.

[Julian Beal]

Country and can I come visit? Can I come live there, please? Totally travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Patrick]

Drip Drop is back. Look, I've really upped my game at the gym. I'm. I'm working the muscle groups now, so I am all about the hydration. And Drip Drop is the one I'm using now. Drip Drop is doctor developed proven fast hydration. I can really see the difference.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. So here's the thing about Drip Drop. It delivers three times the electrolytes and half the sugar versus the leading sports drink, literally. So you. You feel the difference. Fast. Like, less fatigue, more focus. No more midday crash.

[Patrick]

No. Drip Drop is a breakthrough hydration formula that's backed by science. You know, we love science on this pod, which is why it's trusted by firefighters, medical professionals, and over 90% of top pro and college sports teams. Like me.

[Julian Beal]

I was going to say. And you.

[Patrick]

And me.

[Julian Beal]

And you. So I love it. So what are you doing? You're just, like, putting it.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I put it in my water, I shake it up and it like. And I take it to the gym with me. But I also drink it throughout the day. I Say this all the time. It makes me want to drink more water. I drink probably double the water I was drinking, drinking two weeks ago.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

My current favorite because it's pink and I'm gay is the strawberry lemonade.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, my God. I'm all about the fruit punch.

[Patrick]

That's also gay.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah, Give me a fruit punch, anything. I am there.

[Patrick]

So, fam, right now, Drip drop is offering TCL listeners 20% off your first order. Go to dripdrop.com and use promo code TCO.

[Julian Beal]

That's dripdrop.com, promo code TCO for 20% off.

[Patrick]

Stock up now, fam, before the heat hits hard.

[Julian Beal]

Drip drop.com and use promo code TCO.

[Patrick]

Now get that strawberry lemonade and think of me.

[Julian Beal]

Or the fruit punch.

[Patrick]

Or the fruit punch.

[Julian Beal]

So good. January 9, 1999, Joyce goes missing. It's a Saturday morning. She went to work. She planned to have dinner with her friends that night. She said goodbye to her brother. See you later tonight. Bye. And then Joyce never came home.

[Patrick]

And like, the brother Roger doesn't really realize this. They live together, but, you know, like, I mean, she's incredibly busy. I'm sure he is, too.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

He doesn't realize until Sunday night that she never came home for her, like, Saturday night plan.

[Roger]

I didn't suspect anything until Sunday night when she didn't come home. And I started to get that tingling feeling that something's off. And so I started calling her friends.

[Julian Beal]

I received a voicemail message on Sunday saying, have you seen Joyce? She didn't come home last night. And I said, that's not like her at all. We started almost like a phone trait, calling each other. Her Smith friends, her Georgetown Law friends, and her friends at I and M. None of us heard from Joyce over the last 24 hours.

[Patrick]

Nobody's heard from her in 24 hours.

[Julian Beal]

So Monday, January 11, 1999, two days missing. It says Tuesday, but that's a typo because. Yeah, on screen text will also say Tuesday.

[Patrick]

I did a lot of Googling of the dates and days of the week.

[Julian Beal]

It was a Monday.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. So everyone's frantic. And Roger goes to Joyce's office and is looking through her desk and her papers, and he doesn't. He's not finding anything that could possibly help.

[Patrick]

And my whole thing is like, everybody's going to do this their own way. This is truly just a question. I'm not mad at anybody, but why isn't he calling the police? Like, I don't know what going to her. I mean, maybe you go to the office and see if she's there. Remember, this is a time before cell phones, like. Like she probably wasn't as accessible as we would be today.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

If you're going through her drawers at work, call the cops.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. I think, though, when you're not a white person.

[Patrick]

I had the same thought.

[Julian Beal]

It's not your. It's never going to be your first.

[Patrick]

Thought, your go to. I guess so. I thought that, too, but I was like, can we just fire on all cylinders here?

[Julian Beal]

Well, look. Tuesday, January 12th, three days missing. Her coworkers called the FBI.

[Patrick]

Well, that's the other thing. When you work for the government, you can bypass the cops to go right to the feds.

[Julian Beal]

Right. You know, they do. So FBI Chuck is here, and he. He works for the violent crime squad. And I'm like, fudgeing, great. I know that handles all the federal violent crime violations. Perfect.

[Patrick]

And Chuck tells us this is what they know. She'd gone out with some friends on that Saturday. She was dropped off at that Starbucks at dupont Circle. And he said, we had enough to place her in dupont Circle Right about when she would have gone missing.

[Julian Beal]

I. I just want to say about. Chuck Joyce is a federal employee. So that's how her case got to him.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

That's why it's a federal crime. Federal employee.

[Patrick]

If anybody is a federal employee and they go missing, it goes right to the FBI.

[Julian Beal]

We're just told that because she's a federal employee. Like, that's how Chuck.

[Patrick]

Because I'm like, that's a benefit to the job.

[Julian Beal]

I mean.

[Patrick]

You know what I mean?

[Julian Beal]

What's so scary, though, is that she was four blocks away from home.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

What happened?

[Patrick]

And why did they drop? I mean, maybe she wanted to go to Starbucks at coffee or something. We don't even know when. So we don't know if it was open. But why drop her there and not at her actual house?

[Julian Beal]

I don't know.

[Patrick]

We meet Naomi Ishisaka, and she's a journalist. And she says, speaking of joy, she says her story in and of itself, wasn't enough to merit national coverage. Our culture has ideas of who is a universal victim. And that narrative is very much dictated by race and class and age. When it comes to Asian Americans, I think we're largely invisible. Two years later, in the case of Chandra Levy, the media was obsessed with it.

[Julian Beal]

The.

[Patrick]

It was all over the news. The word merit really stood out to me there. It's just like. It's like when anybody goes missing, it should be on everybody's phone. In five seconds. And this is how we get the comparison to Chandra Levy, because we learned that two years later, with the case of Chandra Levy, the media would become obsessed with it, and it would be all over the news constantly.

[Julian Beal]

And she lived a few blocks away from Joyce.

[Patrick]

They. They had the same lives. Like. Like Joyce was working on Capitol Hill. Chandra Levy was working on Capitol Hill with powerful men.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Patrick]

And of course, like, the Chandra Levy of it all was, like, there was, like, the. The idea that Chandra was having an affair with the congressman. That does make that story more salacious. But it is undeniable, we know this to be true, that white people are always going to get more coverage than anybody else.

[Julian Beal]

Right. And so Roger, Joyce's brother, is doing everything he can to find his sister. He's retracing her steps because she went missing so close to home. So, yes, I think when. When it happens there, you're just like, what am I? It's got to be right under my nose.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

And Roger just seems like the type that, like, he's just never gon up, right? So he walks over to that Starbucks where she went missing. He's sort of like, walking, like, in the back of it, and he finds an alley, and he says, spray painted on the brick wall of the alley says, good day, J.C. may I never miss the thrill of being near you. And it chills him to the bone because her name is Joyce Chang.

[Julian Beal]

JC so he tells the FBI, and they check it out right away, and they eventually say, this is unrelated. This is old graffiti. It had been there for a while. And usually when they say, see, they've seen, like, that very JC and other places, and it is Jesus Christ.

[Patrick]

Because I got to tell you, I was with Roger. I was like, this is it 100%. But then as soon as they said Jesus Christ, I was like, oh, right, of course.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

Yeah, right. I just bought. For one of our drag bingo prizes, I bought a pouch with Jesus on it with gay flags. It says, I'm okay with it.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah, that's the right answer.

[Patrick]

That's the right answer.

[Julian Beal]

That's the right answer.

[Patrick]

God, can you imagine how mad he'd be in, like, all of these people speaking for him?

[Julian Beal]

Furious.

[Patrick]

Do you know that I was raised, like, studying the historical Jesus because it was one of my mother's passions?

[Julian Beal]

Yes.

[Patrick]

Like, don't come for me on the historical Jesus, because I can out Jesus you. I know all of it.

[Julian Beal]

Whoa.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I will out Jesus. Anybody who thinks they know better.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. I mean, I think it's that's also just common sense.

[Patrick]

I know. Like, I'm yelling at our people. As though any of these people are going to cover me. I know you all are not. But it's just in general. Don't talk to me like I don't know about Jesus. I know Jesus.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. I also think it's common sense to realize that it wasn't all about hate. Let's get real.

[Patrick]

Or any of it. You know what I mean?

[Julian Beal]

You know what I mean?

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Patrick]

100%.

[Julian Beal]

It's the right take, but it shouldn't be a hot take.

[Patrick]

No. But I also just love it. I love the provocative nature of, like, Jesus with pride. Facts being like, I'm good with it.

[Julian Beal]

Great.

[Patrick]

It's great.

[Julian Beal]

I'm good with that. So the FBI is investigating.

[Roger]

We did a search of Roger and Joyce's apartment. We looked at her bank accounts, her email accounts, her cell phone, trying to understand Joyce, her relationships she had her friends, she had her routines, her. Her job, and that was basically her life. And they did bring in an FBI profiler who asked me if Joyce kept money under her mattress because we're Asian.

[Julian Beal]

Robin Roberts and I make the same face at the same time.

[Patrick]

Same. Can I be counted in the Face Club? Like, what does that even mean?

[Julian Beal]

I don't know what stereotype they're talking about or what assumption they're making. I know that it's rude, but I. I don't understand how we got there.

[Patrick]

And it's clearly a real. If Roger knows about it, it's obviously real. But it's like, what?

[Julian Beal]

I don't. I've never heard anything like that.

[Patrick]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

I don't know.

[Patrick]

Once again, I'm saying it's clearly a thing.

[Julian Beal]

It's rude, but.

[Patrick]

Meaning that, like, I'm sure that stereotype exists 100%, but, like, what. What the fuck is wrong with people? And what. And what does it matter? You know? What is it going to tell you about her? About her abduction?

[Julian Beal]

Zero. And Naomi says they made assumptions about her life because she was Asian. They didn't say she went to Smith. She was president of Smith. She gradu. Georgetown Law. They didn't say she was a lawyer. They didn't say she was American. They didn't say she grew up in Chicago.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

And all of these assumptions, Naomi says, delayed the entire case.

[Patrick]

Of course.

[Julian Beal]

And so Joyce's friends and family, led by her brother Roger, are telling everyone about Joyce because she's not getting the attention.

[Roger]

No.

[Patrick]

And like, he. They burst into action, making the flyers they're hanging them up everywhere. And he says they make a little bit of headway getting like little 20 second stories in local news. But he said, you know, eventually they realized there were no witnesses coming forward and they weren't getting anywhere. I mean, obviously, like, the media was less interested because she was a non white woman, but also, it seems like nobody saw anything.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

You know what I mean? It was like the middle of the night. Dupont Circle. I mean, like, you know, D.C. any city is not like New York. There's not always people out, you know, but like that, that area of Dupont Circle, it is pretty residential now. I don't know what it was like back then, but like, like it just seems that nobody saw anything and there are no leads.

[Julian Beal]

Like there's nothing in her, in any of her accounts or paperwork. Like, there's no, there's no clues to anything.

[Patrick]

And what, what it makes me imagine, and it's horrifying, is that she was just snatched.

[Julian Beal]

I know.

[Patrick]

Somebody just grabbed her.

[Julian Beal]

I know. Because sometimes, as we've learned in, in all of these years, that sometimes it's just like someone's waiting for the opportunity to do a bad thing.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Julian Beal]

You know, and it's.

[Patrick]

Or it's like that crime of opportunity, they weren't necessarily going to do it tonight, but they see a person standing there by themselves, there's nobody around, it's so scary. And that, like, that whole crime of opportunity thing scares me to death.

[Julian Beal]

It's really, really scary.

[Patrick]

You know, and I, like, I, I feel like I encounter danger in New York a lot. Like when I, if I'm walking in the morning, it's four in the morning, I'm out walking the dog.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

I see people size me up. You know, I've seen people in my neighborhood size me up to decide if they're gonna mess with me, and then they don't. I've not yet been messed with.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

But like, that crime of opportunity always pops into my head in that moment because I'm like, well, what if it was the guy that was like, this is him. This is the one.

[Julian Beal]

I know. It's really scary.

[Patrick]

And I understand. As a man, I have no idea what it's like to be a woman. And you and I talk about this all the time.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. Like, I don't do Fiona's night walk for a reason.

[Patrick]

Yes. I mean, you must experience this a billion times more than I do.

[Julian Beal]

You know, like, I will go out. We call them like family walks. We'll go out on a family walk for at night or. I mean, it's not like, as a rule, if Mike is sick, obviously.

[Patrick]

No, but of course we wouldn't have Daisy do it, but you know what I mean.

[Julian Beal]

The assumption when she's old enough to.

[Patrick]

Walk the dog by herself, which she is not. That's not what I'm saying.

[Julian Beal]

I hear what you're saying.

[Patrick]

Yeah, yeah. No, that was not to you.

[Julian Beal]

No, I know.

[Patrick]

That was to the Internet.

[Julian Beal]

But this.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Obviously I'll do it, but the assumption is, like, I do the super early walk and he does that, and it's just like, you know, I think about.

[Patrick]

I think about when Daisy's old enough to be autonomous, like, what. What will the rules be about when she can be out in the city by herself. That's a real thing. Like. And. And it just makes me think of Joy standing in front of that Starbucks. Once again, we don't really know what time it was that she was standing in front of, but, like, I'm assuming it was dark out. We see video footage and it was open.

[Julian Beal]

There were people there. Right, right.

[Patrick]

We don't know. We haven't been able to establish the exact time of this, but, like, it.

[Julian Beal]

Was, you know, dinner.

[Patrick]

It was snowy. Right.

[Julian Beal]

She missed dinner.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

So it was before dinner. So it had to have been open.

[Patrick]

So, like, then people would have been around and nobody saw anything.

[Julian Beal]

I don't know. What do you see?

[Patrick]

I mean, when we find out what, like, we're gonna learn eventually, fam. She was put into a car with two other people. There's no way she got into that car of her own free will.

[Julian Beal]

No, but that's the thing. We'll never know because it didn't get the media attention it deserved.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Julian Beal]

So maybe if it was on the news 24 7.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Someone said, oh, my God, I saw her. But I bet people didn't even know.

[Patrick]

That anything really bad happened. Right? Yeah, you're right. Maybe somebody. People didn't even know what they saw. So maybe they did see something, but because it didn't get the media coverage, they didn't know that they saw something. And, like, they keep cutting in the Chandra Levy story as just a way of saying that, like, two years later, this is going to happen again, and somebody, another young woman doing the exact same job that Joyce had is going to go missing. And the difference is that it was covered everywhere all the time.

[Julian Beal]

And even the cops are, like, it was all day every day. Yeah, like the cops at the time, because remember, it was the same exact area. So the same Cops were working on these cases. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Patrick]

Everyday doses back. Look, this is that coffee that I've been obsessed with because it's coffee plus, like, if you ever notice, like, bloating or not, not feeling great after you drink, like your normal morning coffee.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. So it's like coffee plus because there's like no crash and no jitters.

[Patrick]

Yeah. And like, the bloating is all gone and I feel great when I drink it. So Everyday Dose offers coffee that does more. We're talking 100% Arabica coffee with functional ingredients for smooth energy, calm focus, gut health, and skin support. So, like you were saying, no crash, no jitters.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. The all in one coffee that makes you feel as good as it takes, which I love.

[Patrick]

I love it so much. We've got mild roast and medium roast. I love a medium because I like it a little darker.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And the ingredients undergo third party testing to ensure purity and potency. Free from mold growth. And they're rich in active compounds.

[Patrick]

It's just so nice to have that thing that I was having every morning anyway. But now I know that it's helping me. That's gut health. I'm gonna. I'll take it.

[Julian Beal]

You don't feel bad afterwards. How amazing.

[Patrick]

I love Everyday Dose fam. And exciting news. You can now find Everyday Dose in Target stores across the country.

[Julian Beal]

Celebrate with a buy one, get one deal. Just buy any two Everyday Dose products at a Target store near you and they'll pay you back for one.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Visit everydaydose.com obsessed for more details.

[Julian Beal]

Ooh, details. I said details. That's how you know it's fancy. So. Tuesday, January 21, 1999. Joyce has been missing for 12 days. And finally there's a break in the case after almost two weeks.

[Roger]

The lead FBI agent says, hey, Roger, we found some of Joyce's personal belongings.

[Julian Beal]

The FBI says agents may have found.

[Patrick]

Clothing belonging to Joyce Chang.

[Julian Beal]

The items are found near the Anacostia river on the grounds of the naval station.

[Roger]

The dividing line between the two Washingtons is the Anacostia River. Where the disappearance happened was Dupont Circle, where Joyce lived. Her ID tags are found over on the banks of the Anacostia in the other Washington.

[Patrick]

So Joyce lived in Dupont Circle, but her things are found, like, far away in Anacostia.

[Julian Beal]

They say it's about a 30 minute drive from where Joyce was last seen.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So Roger and Robin Roberts go to the banks of the Anacostia river, and they're sort of like in the area where these things were found. Can we just take a minute for Robin Roberts? She is just oozing empathy. She is so here to tell the stories of these victims.

[Julian Beal]

You know, this is an excellent series, and she's excellent in it.

[Patrick]

It feels very personal to her.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And because she's producing it, you know, like, it's her show.

[Patrick]

It's just that she's putting her money where her mouth is 100%, you know, they're telling us what was found. It was her. It was Joyce's jacket. Keys, gloves, Blockbuster Video card. Oh, my God.

[Julian Beal]

Her Safeway card and her Safeway card.

[Patrick]

And they're strewn all around, like, the banks of the river.

[Julian Beal]

Except her jacket.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Her jacket was on the road, and one sleeve was turned inside out, which makes everyone think that Joyce was, quote, pulled out of her jacket.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

And maybe for a minute, FBI Chuck says, like, almost got away.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

And there we also learned that there's a big tear in the jacket. We never really get more into this, but there's a big tear in the jacket, which makes it look like there was, like, a struggle.

[Julian Beal]

So, like, she was running away, and they grabbed her, because for the arm to be inside out, they, like, pulled it off her, and then it rips. Somehow she's, like, running away.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes. Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

So the FBI wants to search the.

[Patrick]

River, and we get five minutes of how polluted this river is again.

[Julian Beal]

Why are people like this?

[Patrick]

I know. And, like, you know, the dive team is here, and the divers are telling us, like, when you're in the Anacostia river, you are in the pitch black, and you are literally waving your arms around, hoping to bump up against a body. I would never recover from that.

[Julian Beal]

No.

[Patrick]

If that were my job and I just had my hands out, and all of a sudden, my hand is on a face.

[Julian Beal]

I know. I know.

[Patrick]

I would. Now, somebody's got to do this. We got to find these people, and God bless these people who are doing it. It sounds like a horror movie, I.

[Julian Beal]

Got to tell you. This guy Bobby, he's the former senior leader of the FBI dive team. We also met him in the first episode. He searched for Evelyn Hernandez and Lacy Peterson.

[Patrick]

Oh, wow.

[Julian Beal]

So he. And he tells us about the dive. He goes, it was cold. There was snow on the ground. Every. He was miserable conditions to dive in. Just really up against it.

[Patrick]

They bring in a specialized team to, like, clean them when they get out of the river.

[Julian Beal]

That's decontaminated.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Silkwood Showers, which we will learn about in a few weeks on a regular feed episode. The Silkwood story.

[Patrick]

Oh, Doing Karen.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Oh, my God.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

All right. Showers are.

[Julian Beal]

Wow. It's horrifying.

[Patrick]

Hor. Oh.

[Julian Beal]

The whole story is bad.

[Patrick]

Everything hurts.

[Julian Beal]

She was killed. It wasn't an accident.

[Patrick]

No.

[Julian Beal]

I maintain.

[Patrick]

Oh, yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, yeah. She was about to blow the. Literally, like she. The big whistleblower.

[Patrick]

Oh, totally.

[Julian Beal]

She was going to talk about all of it. She dies on the way home from a meeting. Please.

[Patrick]

You got thoughts on Marilyn.

[Julian Beal]

On Mar.

[Patrick]

Marilyn Monroe.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, that. She was, like, abused.

[Patrick]

Do you think she. Do you think it was a murder or do you think she died?

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. No, Mar. Marilyn knew too much.

[Patrick]

I. Marilyn knew too much.

[Julian Beal]

Marilyn knew too much.

[Patrick]

If Bombshell taught us nothing, I mean.

[Julian Beal]

She knew too much.

[Patrick]

You're right. She definitely did. Okay.

[Julian Beal]

JFK was in with the mob. Like.

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

So they find a body and it is not Joyce.

[Patrick]

I mean, this is so upsetting on so many levels.

[Robin Roberts]

Not.

[Patrick]

Not only do we get absolutely no information about who this person is or.

[Julian Beal]

Or what happened or anything about the kids case. Zero.

[Patrick]

I mean, you go looking for a body and you find one, but it's not the one you're looking for.

[Julian Beal]

In the absolute worst conditions imaginable.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

You happen to find a body. It's just not the one you were actually looking for. And we get no information about this poor person or what happened.

[Patrick]

It's just unbelievable.

[Julian Beal]

Unbelievable.

[Patrick]

Also, can we fudgeing drain the river at this point?

[Julian Beal]

I also don't understand why you have, like, you finish your soda and you're like, you know what I'm going to do? Throw this into the fudgeing river.

[Patrick]

There's a lot of things in this episode that are really confusing. I.

[Julian Beal]

Us. I don't understand.

[Patrick]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

Why do you pollute? Don't pollute. It's very easy.

[Patrick]

No, I also. Let's not start forest fires. Literally.

[Julian Beal]

Please.

[Patrick]

You know what I mean?

[Julian Beal]

Remember that scene? And this is what they used to do.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

But that scene in Mad Men in an early season. Oh.

[Patrick]

Where they're on a picnic and she goes like this with the blanket.

[Julian Beal]

She just throws. That's her cleaning up.

[Patrick]

Do you know that I read an article about that and they were like. That's what you would do. There were no trash cans in public places.

[Julian Beal]

No.

[Patrick]

So you would literally, like, just take the blanket and go like that. And it was somebody else's problem, like.

[Julian Beal]

Throw it out the car window. I mean, truly, that's what happened. And then eventually we start polluting and destroying the planet. And now they. They had to have all these like ad campaigns with indigenous people being like, you stole our land. Can you not destroy it?

[Patrick]

I know.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Could you maybe fucking throw out the cup? Betty Draper, she.

[Patrick]

Want a list of your demands. I want a list of your demands.

[Julian Beal]

We're going to really simple.

[Patrick]

I agree.

[Julian Beal]

Be nice.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Don't be racist.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Don't litter.

[Julian Beal]

Don't pollute.

[Patrick]

Can we add forest fire?

[Julian Beal]

Of course.

[Patrick]

And Marilyn knew too much.

[Julian Beal]

Marilyn knew too much. There's another great Mad Men episode when she dies.

[Patrick]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

And how they cover it, how they covered, like, huge, monumental pieces of history in that show, is excellent.

[Patrick]

I couldn't agree more. They could have touched on the Stonewall riots.

[Julian Beal]

They.

[Patrick]

They were right there. They didn't do it.

[Julian Beal]

I know they didn't. And they fired Sal.

[Patrick]

Oh.

[Julian Beal]

For being gay.

[Patrick]

Why are you people like that?

[Julian Beal]

Why are you people.

[Patrick]

Welcome to our Mad Men podcast.

[Julian Beal]

Don't even say those words.

[Patrick]

I like.

[Julian Beal]

Don't.

[Patrick]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

I know. In a heartbeat when I do that.

[Patrick]

Okay.

[Julian Beal]

So the FBI analyzes Joyce's belongings.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

But anyway. Sorry. Lee Gardner Jr gets Sal fired. That's. That's the end of that story, in case you're wondering what happened.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. Junior basically said, it's lucky it's my account or Sal. And they. They were like, oh, it's. It's no question we're firing him also.

[Patrick]

Your job will do that to you any day. That's what I used to always think when I worked in corporate America. America.

[Julian Beal]

Any day, salvage.

[Patrick]

Take that vacation because you deserve it and you need it.

[Julian Beal]

Take the vacation. Don't take work home with you. It's work. It's not that serious. Unless you're causing. Unless you're, like, a heart surgeon.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Patrick]

Oh, God. I would. Let's do that.

[Julian Beal]

It's not that serious. Unless you're, like, actually curing cancer. What? So it won't get sent until later? Okay.

[Patrick]

I mean, you can also schedule an email.

[Julian Beal]

I'm so hungry. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Patrick]

Hers is back. Look, we all know this. Those weight loss medications are everywhere. Right now, it seems like everybody is taking them, but, girl, have you ever looked at the price of these things?

[Julian Beal]

Yeah, it's hard to believe they're actually accessible. So that's where hers comes in.

[Patrick]

100%. So hers is transforming women's health care by providing access to affordable weight loss treatment plans.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And here's the thing. They connect you with a medical provider who will work with you to determine the best treatment option for you. I think that's so important. A lot of people are trying to get these, like, under the table notice. No, you need a doctor.

[Patrick]

Let me tell you, I've been on these GOP once for two and a half years now. And without the guidance of my doctor, I would have been absolutely lost and I wouldn't have felt like it was safe. So that is what hers does for you?

[Julian Beal]

Yes. So if you're prescribed, you get medication as part of a doctor developed weight loss program. So you get the ongoing care, the check in the dosage, the medication adjustments, and 24,7 online support at no additional cost.

[Patrick]

Let me tell you, you will have questions. You need those check ins, you need to be monitored by a doctor. Plus your personalized treatment been shipped for free directly to your door.

[Julian Beal]

If you're taking any kind of medicine on a regular basis, you should be talking to a doctor.

[Patrick]

I know I'm not a doctor, but I think you should be talking to a doctor.

[Julian Beal]

Am I crazy? No.

[Patrick]

No, you're definitely not crazy. So, fam, if you've been struggling with your weight loss journey, it's time to find the best option that works for you through HERS.

[Julian Beal]

Start your online visit today at 4HERS.com.

[Patrick]

TCO that's F-O-R-H-E-R S.com TCO for your personalized weight loss treatment options for HERS.com weight loss by HERS is not available everywhere. Compounded products are not approved or reviewed for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on the product and plan purchased.

[Julian Beal]

Nice.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I did the whole last thing.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Thank you.

[Julian Beal]

The FBI analyzes Joyce's belongings, right?

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

Forensic testing, all that, it comes up with nothing, which is absolutely devastating. So Joyce's friends and family are like, hilarious. Do you think we're giving up? Absolutely not. Joyce's friends and family were persistent. They had weekly vigils trying to keep her story alive. We started the vigils the first Saturday night she was missing.

[Patrick]

So I ask everybody, Keep praying, keep the faith.

[Roger]

Early on, I couldn't walk around D.C. without my sister staring back at me. Joyce's missing poster on street lamps and store windows everywhere. And then Joyce's story began to fade.

[Patrick]

If your family or friends go missing and you're not getting any attention, do the vigils, they work also. Call me and I'll come.

[Julian Beal]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick]

You know what I mean? Talk about it like her brother and her friends were fucking warriors for her weekly vigils.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

So three months later on April 1, 1999, Joyce Chang's body is found in the Potomac River.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

Yes.

[Patrick]

The Potomac river feeds into the Anacostia, or one way they come together.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

So that's important to know.

[Julian Beal]

And we hear about this all the time because then it feels like the case goes cold. Right. Like they find a body so the investigation stops. And this happens all the time.

[Patrick]

Right. Because, like, they found her, which means they, like, they don't have to solve it. They just. They found the body, so now they can move on.

[Julian Beal]

Right. But the FBI has reassured Roger that they are still working on solving Joyce's murder.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

So, May 2001, two years after Joyce's death, Shaun Jolie goes missing.

[Patrick]

In Washington today, dozens of police are combing, hunting for the missing intern, Chandra Levy.

[Julian Beal]

And so as soon as you heard of Chandra Levy's story, of course you drew parallels to Joyce, and it didn't make you think, like, what is going.

[Patrick]

On here on the news?

[Roger]

They said Chandra Levy is an intern from California, last seen in the Dupont Circle area. Everything tied in from California intern, Dupont Circle. And my heart just sang.

[Patrick]

And then it comes out that Chandra Levy was having an affair with her boss, the married congressman Gary Condit. So, like, once again, there's no denying the racism. I am not denying it. But there is that element to Chandra Levy's story, which, like, made it even more sensational.

[Julian Beal]

But, yeah, it just shouldn't be the case.

[Patrick]

No.

[Julian Beal]

You know, it shouldn't matter.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

And so, but it should be.

[Patrick]

And even, like, when somebody goes missing, it should be all hands on deck at all times, forever. I couldn't agree more.

[Julian Beal]

But brother Roger reaches out to Chandra Levy's family.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

He's like, well, maybe we can work together. There are a lot of similarities. Maybe we can help each other.

[Patrick]

But Also, does Washington D.C. have a serial killer who's targeting young interns on Capitol Hill?

[Julian Beal]

Well, that's the thing, you know, because then the media is like, oh, now Joyce's right. They're okay to discuss Joyce's case only as it relates to Chandra Levy's case, not Joyce in her own right as a person, but her family's like, you know what? We wanted the national attention. We have it. We're going to. We're going to use this as much as we can. If this is what it is.

[Patrick]

We're desperate.

[Julian Beal]

Of course we'll go on Larry King and talk about Joyce's case as it relates to Shondra Levy, if that. That's what we need to do.

[Patrick]

Of course. Of course.

[Julian Beal]

And the cops are like, there's not a serial killer. These cases are not connected.

[Patrick]

And the authorities are now reporting that Joyce may have died by suicide.

[Roger]

There was a report that she had broken up with a fellow worker at INS right around the time she disappeared. Could that have been a part of it?

[Patrick]

Maybe.

[Roger]

Possibly. I'm not going to discount it. We had no actual proof of any criminal intention.

[Julian Beal]

Him.

[Roger]

Just that it was a missing person.

[Patrick]

I remember one theory that came up. She was an Asian. Some Asian cultures, if you lose face, you take your own life. So that was a strong possibility. We had to look at what century.

[Julian Beal]

Do you think we're in?

[Patrick]

And like. Like, you know, the cameras are rolling, like. Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

And like, that's today.

[Patrick]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

He's saying that you.

[Patrick]

And he thinks he's saying something smart. He thinks he's saying the. Right. He's thinking. He thinks he's saying something that's going to make sense to us.

[Julian Beal]

You know, Robin Roberts was like, keep that shit in.

[Patrick]

Keep it in. That's the whole point of this.

[Julian Beal]

That's the point.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

Where do you think we are?

[Patrick]

I know.

[Julian Beal]

Jesus Christ. It's rude. It's insulting. It victimizes Joyce all over again. It traumatizes her family because now they have to answer to this.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

And also, let me ask you a question. Did Chandra Levy possibly die by suicide? Did she run away? I thought all adults are allowed to go missing.

[Patrick]

Right, Right, exactly.

[Julian Beal]

So where's that?

[Patrick]

And she was having. She was having an affair with a married man. And Lord knows we're not trying to just besmirch the name of Chandra Levy.

[Julian Beal]

But those questions aren't asked.

[Patrick]

Right. And it's the whole Gabby Petito thing of, like, nobody's saying Gabby Petito should have less coverage. Is that everybody should have the same.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

Everybody should have the same amount of coverage.

[Julian Beal]

Where's the. Calm down. Adults are allowed to go missing. Where's that attitude?

[Patrick]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Nowhere.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah. Yes.

[Julian Beal]

I don't want to see it anywhere. But it's a stark contrast. So May 22, 2002, a year after Chandra Levy goes missing, her body's found.

[Patrick]

And it's like she was jogging in a park and her body was found in a park. What the fuck took a year?

[Julian Beal]

I know. Do we know if she was moved there or she was really there?

[Patrick]

We covered this case like, so long ago. And I think what we know is that she was attacked and sort of taken off the trail. Like it wasn't an on trail thing.

[Julian Beal]

Yes.

[Patrick]

But it just Seems like they didn't really do a thorough search of where we knew she last was.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

A year. Yeah, everyone in D.C. is looking for her.

[Julian Beal]

Everybody.

[Patrick]

It takes seven years, by the way, for them to identify a suspect in chandra levy. So March 3, 2009, a suspect by the name of Igmar Guandike is identified and basically, as the result of having confessed to, like, a jailhouse cellmate. And we learned that he'd been convicted around the same time that Shonda went missing, of attacking two women in the same park. And I think we also know, and they kind of allude to it in this episode, that the authorities kind of always knew that it was him, but they couldn't really get him. And when he admitted this to the jailhouse informant or whatever, like, that's when they were able to get him. This guy's eventually going to be convicted of this murder, get 60 years, but then is, like, deported back to El Salvador and, like, the charges are dropped because of prosecutorial misconduct.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

What the.

[Julian Beal]

I know. I know. They dropped that bomb on us at the end.

[Patrick]

At the very end. And I'm like. And I forgot, like, we covered this case so long ago.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Can we just play by the rules? Can we just go by the books so when we get these guys, they can actually stay in prison?

[Julian Beal]

Good thing he did it, because if he was innocent, it would take 30 years to get him out of prison.

[Patrick]

Honestly. Truly.

[Julian Beal]

I mean, if that make that make sense. Right. If then. So 13 years after Joyce goes missing, Roger gets an email. And the email is that Joyce's case has been solved, according to the police. And here's what they say.

[Patrick]

That's an email. That should have been a phone call.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. Talk about. Could have been an email.

[Patrick]

Exactly. No, this could have been a phone call.

[Julian Beal]

How about you send the email? Do you have time to speak?

[Patrick]

Yeah, right now. Urgently.

[Robin Roberts]

Y. Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Then you pick up the phone or you just show up to the house. It's been 13 years.

[Patrick]

I agree. I couldn't agree more.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. So here's what they say happened.

[Roger]

They believe that Joyce went to Starbucks and she was robbed by some drug users, and they drove her out to Anacostia park, where Joyce tried to escape. And she either jumped in the river or they pushed her into the river where she perished.

[Patrick]

That was my first thought, that she was like, these fucking guys aren't going to jump into the river after me. I'm going to. I'm going in the river.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And then they say. And she perished because it was.

[Patrick]

It was snowing that night. Like, it was freezing cold.

[Julian Beal]

It was really. It was January.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

So. Oh, my God. And like, DC In January is freezing.

[Julian Beal]

Is it?

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

But I. I understand it. Like, she probably was like, I can't outrun them. And we don't. We don't know that that's what happened. But as a possibility, that makes total sense. Whatever. The smartest thing to do is. Is what Joyce did.

[Julian Beal]

100%, you know, no question. And I'm not. I'm not making light of this at all.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

But it would not surprise me if she was also a really good swimmer.

[Patrick]

Totally.

[Julian Beal]

Like, it wouldn't surprise me if she sort of did a quick analysis of the situation and be like, I can. Yeah. I'm a good swimmer.

[Robin Roberts]

Yep.

[Patrick]

I'm going in.

[Julian Beal]

I don't mean to say that lightly.

[Patrick]

No, no, no. I mean, like, it was. She's good at everything, especially because of the way the jacket was. She pulled herself out of the jacket.

[Julian Beal]

Yes.

[Patrick]

They were holding on to her by the jacket. She pulled herself out and like, yeah, I'm going to jump in the river. They're not coming, man.

[Julian Beal]

So we have two suspects, and they were arrested three months after Joyce disappeared on a kidnapping charge. On a separate charge.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

And so they have enough to arrest them for Joyce's murder, but not enough to charge them, we're told.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Julian Beal]

And so by May 2011, Joyce's case is officially ruled a homicide, not a suicide, you idiot police chief.

[Patrick]

And the thing that happens here is they give Roger. They literally are like, well, we're not going to be able to prosecute these guys, but we will declassify this as a suicide and change it to a homicide, as though that's some kind of.

[Julian Beal]

Win for him and the f. But he says, like, we're happy that the record has been corrected.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Patrick]

And it's a ridiculous thing to ever have thought that she died by suicide.

[Julian Beal]

Right.

[Patrick]

I mean, like, it's so clearly not what happened.

[Julian Beal]

And then we just learned that her case has been closed, but no charges.

[Patrick]

Right.

[Julian Beal]

So they solved it, but nothing happened.

[Patrick]

Which means that these two guys are just walking around out there knowing they got away with murder.

[Julian Beal]

They got away with it.

[Patrick]

I hate that. That's so much.

[Julian Beal]

So we end with Judy and Amy, Joyce's friends, talking about Joyce and kind of bonding over, reminiscing about her. And they said that Joyce used to say all the time, be happy and smile. And we end with another incredible message she left. And she's singing about being happy when you Feel sadness, don't pay for gravity.

[Patrick]

This thing called my.

[Roger]

That was your sister. Yeah. You brought her back to life today for many who now know her. Yeah. Now know her story and know the impact that she had in her time here. Yeah.

[Patrick]

I want to talk about this one moment between Robin Roberts and Roger the brother.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

Because it's at the end of the interview. And this is what I'm talking about. About, like the playbook for how to actually be victim focused and to take. Take care when you're interviewing the family members that have so graciously agreed to sit down with you. And like, I think that it is so important for these people who do these interviews to take such care when interviewing the family members of the people who are who have been tragically killed.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

To take that moment with him to say, hey, you just did something really hard.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

But you did it for a reason. You told people who didn't know about your sister about her. Now people know about her. Her. That's why you're here.

[Julian Beal]

I mean, this show, it's so good. It's so good. It's so needed.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

Even if someone takes away from it. Like, I'm gonna do a better job interviewing tomorrow.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Julian Beal]

Even just taking care of these people. Like you're saying, you know, like, even.

[Patrick]

Robin Roberts crying, like, you know, journalists aren't supposed to show emotion or whatever. Show that fucking emotion. Show it.

[Julian Beal]

Because Roger's a person too, and who just wants to be seen and heard. The whole reason we have this series is to show how. How that wasn't happening for him.

[Robin Roberts]

Exactly.

[Julian Beal]

His family and people like Joyce.

[Robin Roberts]

Yes.

[Patrick]

Oh, you're doing good work over there.

[Julian Beal]

Kids love the show. Please make more episodes.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

So we end with on screen text that the two suspects believed to be responsible for the murder of Joyce have never been charged. One of them is serving a life sentence for a prior conviction.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Julian Beal]

And the other one, his whereabouts are unknown.

[Patrick]

But his whereabouts are unknown. I'm going to say his name. Neil Walken. If you know where this guy is.

[Julian Beal]

DM me, please call the FBI.

[Patrick]

Yeah. You know, do that first, but then also DM me.

[Julian Beal]

Cut out the middle. Gay. Do you know what I mean? You probably won't see it. It'll go into your.

[Patrick]

I actually pay very close attention to my DMs on Instagram. If you're DMing me on Tik Tok, I'm never looking.

[Julian Beal]

But they get. They go to some weird place. If you don't know the person, there's always like these secret folders.

[Patrick]

Oh, I. All right, fine, fine. Call the FBI.

[Julian Beal]

Call the FBI, please. Thank you. Said DM me just to say hi.

[Patrick]

Girl, we did it. What's it called?

[Julian Beal]

So this is Murder Has Two Faces, episode two, Capital Killings. But it is the murder of Joyce Chang.

[Robin Roberts]

Yeah.

[Patrick]

The murder of Joyce Chang. Thanks for sticking around. Join our Facebook group. Join the disy. Join the Patreon. There's so many places to hang out with us.

[Julian Beal]

So many.

[Patrick]

I know. We love you.

[Julian Beal]

We love you.

[Patrick]

Now get out of here.

[Julian Beal]

Yeah. And just please make more episodes of this. This in the meantime. Thank you.

[Patrick]

I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

[Julian Beal]

Don't ask for much.

[Patrick]

That's true. You don't. Bye.

[Julian Beal]

Bye. We love you.