461: Trainwreck: Balloon Boy

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed, Episode 461: "Trainwreck: Balloon Boy"

Released: October 14, 2025
Hosts: Patrick Hines & Julia Betzvolli
*Summary by [SummarizerAI]

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Patrick and Julia dive into the infamous "Balloon Boy" hoax, as presented in the Netflix docuseries "Trainwreck." With their trademark humor, skepticism, and empathy, they break down the bizarre 2009 event in which a homemade helium-filled "UFO" soared over Colorado—and the world watched, believing six-year-old Falcon Heene was trapped inside. The hosts examine the family’s background, media spectacle, police investigation, and documentary aftermath while debating whether it was all an elaborate stunt or a genuine accident. The conversation is laced with sharp banter and deep analysis, ultimately culminating in a post-show revelation that blows open the conclusion the documentary fails to deliver.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction—Setting the Stage

• The hosts immediately launch into friendly debate, foreshadowing their disagreement over the reality of the Balloon Boy saga ([00:11]).
• Quick updates are shared about the podcast Discord, YouTube channel, and community news.

2. The Heene Family: Dreamers or Delusionals?

• Richard Heene, the patriarch, is described as an obsessive, aggressive amateur scientist with dreams of flying saucers.
  • Patrick: "He's the type of guy that even when he's happy, he's screaming at you aggressively" [02:53].
  • The Heenes lived off-grid, chasing tornadoes for "science" with their three young sons and mom Mayumi.
• The hosts mock the family’s “science” projects—contraptions built from "tinfoil and duct tape," resembling Jiffy Pop popcorn containers ([03:44]-[04:11]).
  • Patrick: "This is, like, tinfoil...it looks like a deflated hot air balloon" [10:28].

3. The Fateful Day: Balloon Launch & Immediate Fallout

• On October 15, 2009, the family’s homemade saucer is set for a tethered test flight—Mayumi's job is to anchor it.
• Mayumi “fails” at her task, the balloon escapes, and the chaos begins, captured in home videos (sparking Patrick's skepticism about staging) ([15:28]-[15:37]).
• News breaks: Falcon, the youngest son, is allegedly in the balloon. Media mania erupts, with news choppers and the National Guard mobilized.

4. Was It a Hoax? Host Perspectives Diverge

• Patrick immediately suspects acting and staging: "This is all completely manufactured. I believe and will believe after the fact." [14:54]
• Julia is more credulous, expressing real anxiety while recalling following the event live and taking the documentary at face value.
• The hosts dissect the "evidence": home footage, police searches, and the family’s tearful reactions.
• Falcon is eventually found alive in the garage attic after two hours, having "hidden" through three police searches ([39:21]-[41:32]).
  • Patrick: "As far as I'm concerned, every last one of these people of the Heeneys are keeping up what I believe is bullshit because they want us to believe that Falcon was up sleeping in the attic..." [41:12].
• Grown-up Falcon’s interview in the documentary sparks more debate over his innocence, awareness, and participation ([40:13]-[42:41]).

5. Media Circus & The Interview Meltdown

• The Heenes tour national media: Wolf Blitzer (CNN) and Diane Sawyer (ABC) interviews, with young Falcon unexpectedly telling Blitzer, "You guys said that we did this for the show" (a smoking gun?) ([46:21]-[47:00]).
  • Blitzer: "Hey, Falcon, can you hear me? Because you didn't hear all those people screaming for you for two and a half hours. Slept through all that commotion, did ya?" [44:33]
  • Julia: "You can’t bullshit a Blitzer." [44:44]
• The hosts riff on the family's disastrous media strategy while highlighting their lack of media training ([45:29]-[45:42]).

6. Prior Fame: Wife Swap Appearances

• The Heenes appeared on "Wife Swap" twice, depicted as an outrageous, dysfunctional family.
• Richard is shown as an abusive, self-important dreamer; Mayumi subservient; the kids, feral ([57:03]-[59:18]).
• Notably, ex-"Wife Swap" participant Cherie Silver appears in the doc to defend Richard, despite his on-air behavior.

7. The Investigation, “Confession,” and Charges

• Police grill both parents. The documentary claims Mayumi "breaks" and admits to orchestrating the hoax, but the hosts note the supposed confession is never shown, only paraphrased ([64:09]-[67:24]).
  • Julia: "They tell us that she says things that she didn't say because she agrees to things that the cops say..." [66:31].
  • Defense lawyer David Lane doubles down: language barrier, duress, exhaustion; the hosts debate the plausibility of this defense.
• The family accepts plea deals (Richard: 30 days jail; Mayumi: 20 days community service), allegedly in exchange for her avoiding deportation ([72:06]-[72:55]).

8. The Aftermath & The Documentary's Missing Piece

• Post-release, the Heenes move to rural Florida, off the grid, and rebrand as inventors/rock band (The Heene Boyz) ([73:36]-[74:07]).
• In 2020, both parents are pardoned by the Colorado Governor ("time to move on" [73:51]).

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Timestamps for Notable Moments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------| | 02:53 | Richard’s personality, family dynamics | | 10:28 | DIY “science” projects, saucer description | | 14:54 | Patrick states his hoax theory | | 19:00 | Breakdown of chaotic home videos/acting suspicions | | 39:21 | Falcon reappears—perspectives on his innocence | | 46:21 | Wolf Blitzer interview, “for the show” moment | | 56:41 | Psychic “Wife Swap” mom’s defense of Richard | | 64:09 | Interrogations and Mayumi “confession” controversy | | 72:06 | Plea deals, legal tactics, threats of deportation | | 74:36 | Moving to Florida, doomsday prepping, family postscript| | 75:07 | Hosts discover excluded evidence post-recording |

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Patrick, on the hoax theory:

  "This is all completely manufactured. I believe and will believe after the fact." ([14:54])

• Julia, doubting staged nature:

  "You think—wait, I see this immediately. I went into this, I was like, oh, that balloon boy thing and whatever...As I'm watching it right now, I'm like, this doesn't even start out as genuine to me." ([14:54])

• On the media frenzy:

  "This is an Apollo 13 situation. First of all, how dare you? Second of all, how dare you?" — Patrick ([29:49])

• Blitzer grilling the family:

  "Because you didn't hear all those people screaming for you for two and a half hours. Slept through all that commotion, did ya?" ([44:33])

• Falcon’s infamous slip:

  "You guys said that we did this for the show." — Falcon ([46:31])

• Julia, on dubious “confession”:

  "We have to throw this [interrogation footage] away, because...they're taking advantage of this woman who's exhausted and sad and intimidated. And maybe also doesn't have a great command of the language." ([67:24])

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Bombshell: What the Documentary Left Out

The hosts end the episode by revealing post-recording research, citing journalist Robert Sanchez’s article (2019, updated 2024) featuring Mayumi's handwritten confession—not shown in the Netflix film.

• Mayumi detailed the plan to fake Falcon’s balloon ride for media attention, intended only for their attorney’s eyes, later released to the journalist with her consent ([75:20]-[76:14]).
• The original plan was for Falcon to hide in the basement (not the saucer); on launch day, he hid elsewhere, sending chaos off-script.
• When confronted, Richard pivots and claims the confession was fabricated for legal advantage to avoid deportation ([77:58]-[78:23]).
• Patrick and Julia express frustration and confusion as the documentary ignores these definitive, damning details.

Julia:

"Why is none of this in the documentary? He's in the documentary. Why isn't this in the documentary?" ([79:09])

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Tone & Takeaways

• Entertaining, irreverent, and investigative: Patrick and Julia don't let up with their signature mix of comedy, pop culture riffs, and pointed analysis. They embody both the audience's cynicism and compassion, scrutinizing the media, the legal system, and the documentary's omissions.
• Sympathy for the kids and Mayumi: Despite their skepticism toward the parents, both hosts repeatedly return to the ways the children suffered from fame-hungry adults and a dysfunctional home.
• Vigorous debate: The episode provides a masterclass in disagreeing productively, with both hosts ready to be convinced by evidence and fact.

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Final Reflection

By the end, both hosts (and listeners) have been whiplashed by the Heenes’ surreality, the chaos of live news, and the failures of documentary storytelling. The addition of post-episode research definitively answers the “hoax or not?” question, exposing flaws in the Netflix doc and underscoring the need to seek out the real story—beyond the headlines and the "magic hour" home movies.

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Listen for:

• Classic banter and pop culture nods (The Jetsons, Apollo 13, Rocketeer, Wife Swap, and more)
• In-depth, timestamped breakdowns for crucial moments
• Fierce critique of both the players and the storytellers, anchored by empathy for the youngest victims

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For those who missed the episode:
This summary gives you an energetic, thoroughly dissected tour through one of modern media’s strangest hoaxes—and the travesty of its retelling.

Transcript

[Julia Betzvolli]

I can't believe we're going to be talking about this for the next hour.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope everyone's ready for yet another extended episode because I feel like this is going to go on forever.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We've been texting about it all day, but in very vague terms because I.

[Patrick Hines]

Keep saying, like, we can't talk about it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know. We have to wait.

[Patrick Hines]

I think we disagree, which I can't believe. I think we really disagree. Well, let's get into it and find out.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All right. All right. Hi. Julia Betzvolli.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello. Patrick Hines, fam.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We just hit 100,000 subscribers on YouTube.

[Patrick Hines]

Which means you'll hear about it in a month because we're pretty.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That's right. That's true.

[Patrick Hines]

But in our world, it was kind of a big deal. We just got it like a day or two ago.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Apparently we get a plaque or something from YouTube. Yeah. For hitting 100k, we get like a silver plaque or something. Go find us on YouTube at True Crime Obsessed Podcast. We are so fun to watch. There's so many videos there. Full, full, full episodes as YouTube videos. Free.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Go watch them. Like this one.

[Julia Betzvolli]

What's the other thing?

[Patrick Hines]

The Discord.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, great. Tell them about it.

[Patrick Hines]

We have a Discord channel and it's. We have a Discord place. And in that place, there are a lot of other channels where you can talk about, like, the episodes. You can, like, leave questions for AMAs that we'll get to. You can also post about, like, music or your family or your pets. It's just a really fun time. It's. I always jump in there on recording days and be like, this is what we're recording today.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God. Are people excited?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, people are very excited.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Do they want this?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All right, girl, tell them what are we doing today?

[Patrick Hines]

You know that series Trainwreck?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. This is so good.

[Patrick Hines]

The episode called Balloon Boy about balloon boy. Kind of.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Kind of.

[Patrick Hines]

This is a very unusual situation. It involves a home built UFO powered by helium.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It looks like this Jiffy Pop thing floating across the sky.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I couldn't wrap my head around it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It's so bizarre that you want to laugh. What is this thing? But then it turns serious.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

What if my stupid experiment kills my son?

[Patrick Hines]

Richard always wanted to build a flying saucer.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

When he said, we're going to try to make a flying saucer. And we're like, cool.

[Patrick Hines]

Look at this.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Look at.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like a kid now.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

All I wanted to do was make a really fantastic project for the kids.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That falcon's in There where?

[Patrick Hines]

On that ship.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

We heard all this chaos in their backyard. They said Falcon got in the balloon and it took off. Biggest nightmare ever.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Everyone starts covering this thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Incredible breaking news story.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

It's worldwide.

[Patrick Hines]

It's blowing fast. It's cooking.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

He said it's straightforward air traffic. This could be really bad.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We all thought that once that balloon came down, this whole thing would be over. Ryan, what are you seeing on the ground there next to the balloon? Well. All right, girl. We're starting off in Fort Collins, Colorado. It's 2009. We meet Richard. How do you say their last name?

[Patrick Hines]

Keenie.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And he's an amateur scientist.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure he is. I can't stand this person.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

He's the type of guy that even when he's happy, he's screaming at you aggressively. Yeah, not my thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. There's a reason why every time we see him move to a new place, it's a compound in the middle of.

[Patrick Hines]

The woods, like, off the grid. No one can stand this guy. Not least of all his wife. Mayomi.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Because, okay, in the beginning, we learned the family had just moved to Fort Collins because they wanted to, quote, chase tornadoes and do science research projects. And I. My note here is, we are not talking about him and his brother or him and his college best friend. We're talking about him and his children, who he is driving into the eye of hurricanes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, he's forcing. So they have three sons. Their ages in 2009 were Falcon, who's six years old, Rio, who's eight years old. He's not here and never mentioned again.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And Bradford, who's 10 years old. Again, these were the ages in 2009.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Great name.

[Patrick Hines]

So all, like this family. Everything the family does, they seemingly do together because the dad forces them to.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So at one point, one of the kids is like, yeah. Our dad was always making us do these science experiments or watch them on YouTube. Like, they don't go to school. They're just, like, in the car while they're chasing these tornadoes and whatever, which.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Honestly, like, it's an adventure to the kids, because why wouldn't it be? None of these kids are scared. But, like, we see this one shot of them in a car in a hurricane. The window to the car is broken. Everyone is screaming, but kind of with excitement. And I gotta say, his wife Mayumi is here, and she's kind of up for it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, she's up for it. We meet some neighbors, Dean and Tina.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Not up for it.

[Patrick Hines]

They're trying to be really nice and diplomatic about this whole thing. And that annoys me because I would love if they were just honest from the get go.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, I've got more to say about them later because in the end I was a little bit like, oh, okay, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, Richard is the dad. He's obsessed with UFOs and aliens, and since 1979, his dream has been to build a flying saucer. And immediately I'm like, oh, okay, wait a second.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Julian's got questions.

[Patrick Hines]

If you want to build, like a flying structure where in that case you can study or get a job in, like, aerodynamics or something, or do you want it to be a flying saucer? Which, like, as we know it in pop culture inherently applies that there's some kind of story behind it and there's some kind of like, do you want to be like an aero engineer, aerodynamics guy, or work for NASA? Or does. Does it have to be a flying saucer? You know what I mean?

[Julia Betzvolli]

He wants it to be a DeLorean of the sky. You know what I mean? He thinks he's do. He wants me to learn. Can I be insufferable for one second?

[Patrick Hines]

Sure.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Will you say the word flying saucer again?

[Patrick Hines]

Flying saucer.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I just love. No, no, no, it's not wrong. It's perfect. I just love how you say saucer. Oh, it's a flying saucer.

[Patrick Hines]

The W is silent and invisible. Or not silent. Very loud.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Very loud.

[Patrick Hines]

Richard wants to be. He wants to live in the Jetsons.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I just thought, what if everybody could be flying around like the Jetsons? It would be just won. Everybody could be pulling out of the garage with their own flying sauce to go into school and work, and you.

[Patrick Hines]

Wouldn'T have all this traffic with no traffic. And I'm like, well, no traffic on land, idiot.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

The traffic's all in the sky now.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, do you not.

[Patrick Hines]

Did you not watch a single episode of the Jetsons?

[Julia Betzvolli]

We also, like, is he not aware of the complete lack of the air? Like, how do you think the air traffic control works? People have to manage that traffic, and we don't have enough of them as it is. I cannot sit on a Runway for another four hours waiting to take off.

[Patrick Hines]

So immediately I'm like, oh, this guy just, like, want. He's like, doing a bit. Right? Because he's. He doesn't actually want to do any of this for real. He just wants to be in charge of all of the stuff he makes his family do.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Exactly right. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

He's not going to be Working for a company where he gets to do this for real?

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. Well, even the neighbor, Dan is, like. He was really smart. Like, the guy was really loud and, like, paced all the time. But I was like, are you from mit? No, girl, he's not. No, He's Doc brown without the DeLorean.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, come on. George Jetson went to work.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I remember the part in the opening credits where she takes the money out of the hands in the cash and keeps the wallet. I loved her.

[Patrick Hines]

She's.

[Julia Betzvolli]

God damn it.

[Patrick Hines]

Not Judy. Judy was.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Judy's the daughter. Jane, his wife.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, Jane, his wife.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I did it.

[Patrick Hines]

Cartoon Network, right? That was, like, the big one.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I loved. Although I am a person with a fear of heights, and they live, like, so high up in the air that.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't live in space.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. So that's not.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like, the highest part of the air. You can be in space.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Not my journey. But I'm Astro.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Everyone's yelling at me to mention Astro.

[Julia Betzvolli]

What's the dog's name?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, the dog's Astro. And then what's the kid?

[Julia Betzvolli]

His boy. His boy. Elroy.

[Patrick Hines]

Elroy.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I'm really doing it.

[Patrick Hines]

You gotta sing it to yourself. That makes total sense.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then who was their housekeeper?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I can't think of her name.

[Patrick Hines]

She was a robot.

[Julia Betzvolli]

She was a robot.

[Patrick Hines]

Famous. Wait, we gotta. We're gonna get screamed at.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Excoriated.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that a real word?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We do have one old demonstrator model with a lot of mileage.

[Patrick Hines]

Rosie. Rosie the Robot.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That's right. Rosie the Robot.

[Patrick Hines]

Thanks, Google. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julia Betzvolli]

This message is sponsored by Greenlight. This is another one of those that we love and use, as you know, fam. Greenlight is a debit card and money app for families. It's a safe way to teach kids and teens about money, preparing them for bigger financial decisions later. We use this with Daisy every week. It's how she gets her allowance. It is my favorite, favorite thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. This is so great, because with Greenlight, parents can send money quickly. They can get spending notifications, and you can even assign chores. So this is, like, a way to turn responsibility into, like, real world learning.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And as a kid who never had any financial, like, planning or advice from my parents, I got to tell you, we sit down with Daisy every week. We go over how much money is in her account. She loves to save, which is unusual for the children. She loves seeing how much money she has. She loves doing her chores to get her allowance, because that's the thing. It has the chores feature. So you can set it up to be recurring or you can set it up for a one time payment. You get a debit card that you can also customize. We've got a picture of golden on hours. It is really this, like, essential part of her growing up now that I am obsessed with.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's sort of like demystifying the whole thing. It's kind of like, oh, this is what, an account, you know, it's not something that she feels is, like, too big. She, like, understands how big it is. A big responsibility, but it's not so big that it should be scary.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Totally. So fam. Give your kids the financial education many of us didn't get.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

TCO that's greenlight.com TCO to get started.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Greenlight.com TCO and I'll send you a picture of golden if you want to customize your card.

[Patrick Hines]

Cute. Okay, I'll take it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Thanks.

[Patrick Hines]

So October 2009, the entire family starts working on the flying saucer, which is so annoying.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But everyone in the house is very excited.

[Patrick Hines]

And no surprise at all, we have tons of home videos of this. And the dad is being really annoying and aggressive even though his childhood dream is coming true.

[Julia Betzvolli]

There you go.

[Patrick Hines]

Congratulations.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It's the kind of thing he reminds me of my dad and fam. I'm fine. I escaped very young. But, like, when I was a little kid, I do have these. Like, my dad would have ideas of things and then, like, if it wasn't executed perfectly, like, he would, like, flip out. You know what I mean? Like, so this is why I'm afraid of dads. This guy is the embodiment of why I'm afraid of dads.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I don't really get that. You see those, like, viral videos of, like, the guy's football team wins and he still breaks the tv. And I'm like, what? Yeah, aren't we happy?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know. I agree with you. Men are like the city of Philadelphia, where even when it's good, they're gonna break shit. And Philly, I say it with love.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I say that with yep.

[Patrick Hines]

But the wife is like, it only took them two weeks to assemble it. I'm like, that's it. What has he been doing since 1979? Get NASA on the phone. This guy's a super speedy genius.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, but we do eventually learn like, it's basically made of, like, tinfoil and duct tape. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

This is, like, tinfoil.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it looks like a deflated hot air balloon.

[Julia Betzvolli]

They're gonna say a million times, it looks like a Jiffy Pop container.

[Patrick Hines]

It looks like a pop. Like a deflated popcorn.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, basically, if you take. I mean, if you take any receptacle that's light enough and fill it with helium, which is what he's about to do, it's gonna float like any one of us could.

[Patrick Hines]

The SS Reynolds Wrap. It just looks like a bunch of tin oil, like, but, like, weak, deflated. You know what I mean?

[Julia Betzvolli]

The S.S. reynolds wrap. And, like, Jillian's the captain.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I'm not going anywhere near the.

[Julia Betzvolli]

If I can't get you on a party barge, I'm not getting you on a backyard ufo. Absolutely not.

[Patrick Hines]

But anyway, we get, like.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

We are hoping to do the CHAS launch on our anniversary. The concept is to tether the flying saucer down and let it hover at 20ft. And we get observed with the video cameras whether it's going to move left or right or up and down and.

[Patrick Hines]

Film it to see what direction it goes in. And I'm like, doesn't the wind decide that if it goes left or right or up and down?

[Julia Betzvolli]

And I'm like, okay, you really do make a strong argument with the. What have you been doing since 1979 if this is only duct tape and tinfoil?

[Patrick Hines]

And it took two weeks. And I'm like, again, get NASA on the phone. But he doesn't want to do that.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, no.

[Patrick Hines]

He wants to boss his family around.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

It'd be a nightmare.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

So footage of the family being so happy, and the saucer, which is not made of metal, like we said. It's like a tent. It's very. I'm like, wait. But flying. Even the Jetsons, it wasn't made of, like, fabric.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Can I ask you a question? Do you remember when this happened in real? Because I do.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't really.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I fully remember this. I, like. I remember. Oh, God, it was terrifying.

[Patrick Hines]

Really? Were you, like, watching it live?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Yes. I was bartending at the time, and it was on whatever TV at whatever bar. I mean, everybody was like, oh, my.

[Patrick Hines]

It seems like it was the big thing for, like, 36 hours, and then it went away. So if you weren't paying attention.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Remember, this was 2009. It was a time where you didn't really have to care so much.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, that's true. What was going on although tell 2009 us that they'd probably be like, what are you.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I know, but I'm saying comparison. Yeah, yeah, it was like maybe people weren't glued to the 24 hour news channels per se.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, no, I agree. Maybe not like on their phones the way that we are now.

[Patrick Hines]

If you're picking up what I'm putting down. Yeah, about the time of the world, but, you know, so if you missed it. Yeah, I think it was easy to miss a quick 36 hour news story at the time.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. And so Richard, importantly, Richard has built a little compartment on the bottom side of this flying saucer that he tells us is meant for the helium tanks.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, right, so it's a. It's like a flattened hot air balloon, but even more useless because no can actually ride in it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Like.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Cool. So Falcon is six years old.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Yeah, Falcon was pretty wild and chaotic.

[Patrick Hines]

You are you sight. Come on, get up.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I don't want to say a shit starter, but like he's like always getting into stuff. He'd be touching shit he wasn't supposed to. He was super interested in like hiding in the bottom of the flying saucer.

[Patrick Hines]

His own brother calls him a shit stir.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, well, because his older brother, Bradford, he's the one, he's the oldest one and his is to do all the videography but also wrangle the children. Like the dad's just there to be a maniac.

[Patrick Hines]

Bradford is 10 at the time, by the way.

[Julia Betzvolli]

10. The dad is just there to yell and the kids do everything else. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

In his own mind. We get like tons of footage of Falcon yelling and announcing that he's inside the stupid thing and he's explicitly saying it over and over again like, I'm Falcon and I'm in the thing. And then the mom's like, I clearly see that you're in the thing, Falcon. Now get out of the thing, you silly goose, because you're currently in it and you're always doing that and oh my God, you're in the thing. And I'm like, wait a second. Right?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Is that what you think?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, this is the most poorly written, poorly acted thing I've ever seen.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, God, really?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God, really? Back at you. Are you telling me what I think you're telling me?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, I thought the whole point. Okay, wait, I thought the whole point of the Train Wreck series was to be like, here's like this. Cause in my memory we all thought this was a hoax. In 2009. And I thought this was, like, the unraveling of how it wasn't a hoax.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm gonna ask you something, okay? And then we will get there together.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

But I'm gonna ask you right now.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I guess I'm gonna marry you.

[Patrick Hines]

And after that, though, do you think that this was a hoax? By the end of this thing, like, right now, do you think this was a hoax?

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. What? No.

[Patrick Hines]

Wait, come on.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. I mean, the way that it ends, like. No, I didn't think it was a hoax at all.

[Patrick Hines]

You're messing with me.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. You think.

[Patrick Hines]

Wait, I see this immediately. I went into this. I was like, oh, that balloon boy thing and whatever. And I was like, I didn't look into anything. As I'm watching it right now, I'm like, this doesn't even start out as genuine to me. This is all completely manufactured. I believe and will believe after the fact.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All right, Convince me. I can be convinced. Just because I feel like it ends with them being like, well, I don't want to give away the ending here, but. But.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. All right.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, this is going to be a long episode. So it's. Oh, God. Okay, so it's test day. Thursday, October 15, 2009.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is again, where I'm like, everything about this home video, like, the fact that we have so many videos, it just feels so, like, rehearsed and poorly acted.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. The other thing that's important to note here is that Mayumi, she. The idea, remember, is to tether this thing down, let it float at 20ft, and that's it. And that is Mayumi's job.

[Patrick Hines]

Let the wind decide, and let the wind decide.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But it's not supposed to go anywhere. And Mayumi is in charge of that.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. So his dream has come true, right? Yes, Richard, he worked. He dreamed about it since 1979. Two weeks ago, he decided he was gonna spring into action. Two weeks later, instead of calling NASA, they're just doing this in their backyard. And now he is suddenly at 1,000, not even 100.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Get up with a fucking Tyler now.

[Patrick Hines]

I did. I did.

[Julia Betzvolli]

What are you talking about?

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I was so fucking pissed. It was hundreds of dollars gone.

[Patrick Hines]

You didn't put the fucking tether. And I'm like, first. This is so fake.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, well, I just thought my whole thing about this guy was that. Here's my thing about Richard. This is a man with zero impulse control. I think he loves his wife. I think he loves his kids. I think he's misguided. In a lot of his actions and whatever. But I really identified it the second time I watched it. He can be calm. He can be normal. He is also kind of a lunatic, and he has wild ideas. And maybe he's one of those crazy smart artists, scientist people, but more than anything, he has no impulse control. In a moment like this, when Mayumi has, in his mind, let him down, he's screaming at her, he's kicking a chair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That is the kind of thing that, like, you have to examine that behavior. He did it. He does it in front of his wife, in front of his kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It is abusive.

[Patrick Hines]

He's got one note and that's it. Whether he's happy, sad, angry, scared, whatever, that. The note is to scream and throw a tantrum like a child.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Whether it's good, bad, or different. And that is, as you said, abusive.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And I'll just tell you that, like, having gone through therapy for many, many, many years, like, that can be fixed. He can fix that. If he's willing to, like, look inside himself and do the work that comes from.

[Patrick Hines]

He's never doing that.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, but I'm just saying if that. If that is you and you have no, like, impulse control, work on it. You can fix it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, great. But, like, he's mad because the stupid popcorn thing keeps going up and up and up.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, because it's not like it's floating away.

[Patrick Hines]

But I'm like. I'm sorry, what was the point of this again? Like, what? I'm thinking about it. I'm like, you wanted to see if a deflated hot air Jiffy Pop thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Would move left to right or up and down as it's being suspended 20ft in the air but tethered. Who cares? That depends on the wind. But I'm not hearing any science, like, what's the point exactly?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Because it's like, once again, anything that you fill with helium that is lighter than the helium is going to float. Like, we all knew this was gonna float. What was the point?

[Patrick Hines]

The point is that it's all bullshit. The point is to get attention. Because then one of the sons of Ollie, one of the sons is like, dad, Falcon's in there.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Where?

[Patrick Hines]

In this ship.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

It.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Whoa.

[Patrick Hines]

He's in there. What? He's in there.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So he's not. Yeah, he was just right here.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, no. Falcon's missing. The. You know, the one who just kept saying over and over again that he was in the flying saucer. And we heard a million times, and the camera was staged perfectly.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, but they're a family that documents everything. And like. And we're gonna. You're not the only one who's gonna say that. We're gonna hear lots of our talk. Well, at least one of our talking heads later is gonna be like. This feels like reality TV acting to me. Watching it the second time, I was like, okay, I could see how that looks a little fake, but I could also see how, like, this guy's just a maniac.

[Patrick Hines]

Because when they realize or they think that now, like, both the fake flying saucer and their six year old child are now floating into the sky. Yes. No one to me. I know we're not allowed to say that. Like, if I wouldn't react that way, no one would react that way. I get that. But like, the camera is set up to show the whole backyard. Like, it's not handheld. And as everyone's like running around, as the drama is unfolding, everyone just happens to stop right in the middle, right in the perfect spot of the camera to be like. To like run, run, run, and then like meet up. It's almost like they have marks on their lawn being like, oh, no, where's Falcon? Like, look to camera. It's like waiting for Guffman.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, you close your eyes when you're not looking to camera and then you open and then you close your eyes. It's like that. It'll be worse.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I would go see. I would go see a musical about Blaine 10 times over. Before I watch it, I wanna like.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Pause the recording and watch the documentary again. Looking at it from this pers perspective, because I was just watching it for enjoyment.

[Patrick Hines]

But also I do want to say that I just something that I learned that maybe, I don't know. Take this. What you will.

[Julia Betzvolli]

They.

[Patrick Hines]

They. These two met in an acting class in 1997. That's all.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, really? That's all.

[Patrick Hines]

They just met.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Wait, Mayumi and Richard?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, yeah. All right.

[Patrick Hines]

Today the family's like, we were panicking. We searched everywhere. Falcon is a hider. He hides a lot. So they were like checking all of his usual hiding spots.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, he really is. And the. The other son, the one that that was doing the video recording, is like, dad, I've been telling you this whole time that he was. He's in the balloon. Like, he went in there.

[Patrick Hines]

And then like today, Mayumi, the wife is. Is like trying her damnedest to cry to Netflix not producing a single tier, but she's like, oh, like, what have we done? I'm not 100% sure why someone didn't just get in the car and follow the balloon. Like, was that not an option? They just are screaming, the camera's rolling.

[Julia Betzvolli]

What would you do if you catch up to the balloon like this?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I don't know if you would have eyes on it. And then someone. I don't know, I gu. Feels like they're just making. They're. They're. Everything they're doing is just happens to be on camera and no one's actually making a move of any kind to save their child who is now seemingly floating away.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I would also love to see the action sequence of Mayumi in the car just driving through cornfields. You know, like driving through shopping mall parking lots.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. I feel like the last thing. Okay. Your son. I can't. I know I'm not allowed to speak to this either because I'm not an actual human mother. But like, your child is floating away.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Would you stay in the one spot that you're or would you just try to like run? Wouldn't your instinct be to maybe like, like go to them?

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, I don't think so. I think my instinct would be to do what they do. Like now I gotta tell you, my instinct would be to grab my phone, make sure I'm recording myself.

[Patrick Hines]

Get that? Get the perfect ring light.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Get that good shot. Get the ring light. Get the lighting. Make sure it's at magic hour. And then call.

[Patrick Hines]

Always shot from above.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Always shot from above.

[Patrick Hines]

Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Miracle made us back. Look, we gave up our apartment for the weekend like we do once a year. We came home, our Miracle sheets had been freshly washed and put on the bed. I slipped in and it was like. It was like I was staying at a five star hotel.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, here's the thing. I'm a big temperature girly. So like, I used to either wake up like sweaty or freezing or just uncomfortable or some combination of the three. But Miracle made sheets sort of got rid of all that because they're inspired by NASA technology. They use silver infused temperature regulating fabric. So I'm sleeping perfectly all night long.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And listen, sheets can be disgusting. But thanks to Miracle's anti antibacterial silver technology, Miracle made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets. So we're talking fewer odors, fewer wash cycles, and way less laundry. Who doesn't want that?

[Patrick Hines]

I know, Seriously. And they feel just as good, if not better, if I'm being honest, than the sheets. You'd Find at a five star hotel which you know you love but also without that price tag.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes. Just go back to the self cleaning nature of these sheets. It's way better for your skin because the bacteria in sheets can clog up your pores and cause breakfast breakouts.

[Patrick Hines]

Never.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Never again. Less laundry, fewer breakouts.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm in. Sign me up.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So fam, upgrade your sleep or give the gift of a better rest.

[Patrick Hines]

Go to trymiracle.com TCO to try Miracle Made Sheets.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Today you'll save over 40% when you use promo code TCO. And when you use promo code TCO, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set.

[Patrick Hines]

They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So fam, that's try Miracle.com TCO code TCO at checkout.

[Patrick Hines]

Thanks to Miracle made for sponsoring episode.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So then, because what Richard does do. Oh no.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, tonight. Well, 19 minutes in the air, right?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Because what Richard does do is call the faa. And my notes here are like, this is such chaos. I can't stand it because nobody is taking him to. He's like, my son is in a flying saucer. And I know you're the faa and I guess he just happened to have their number. Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

They're like, sir, this is a Wendy's call. 91 1.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, stop tying up our phone line. So when they call 911, which done in 19 minutes. Yeah, everyone.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Because he just had the number for the faa. Oh my God, you're right. Oh my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Googled it. Whatever. And they're just screaming as loud as possible.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I love that. Now you're giving me the benefit of the doubt. That's very kind.

[Patrick Hines]

We have a long way to go.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

So all the neighbors are now coming out and like everyone's on the lawns. Whatever. They call 911. He's in the air.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. When's the last time you saw him? 15, 20 minutes ago.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

How the heck.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We gotta get him down? Is somebody there with you?

[Patrick Hines]

The operator asked me to get on the phone so she could verify what he was saying to her. The person doesn't believe them and they're like, is there a woman around? Can you put your wife on the.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Phone and confirm that's exactly what happens? And I'm saying, I know we're supposed to be mad at this dispatcher because the kid is now 10,000ft in the air. Can you imagine getting a call being like, my son is in A flying saucer headed for the airport.

[Patrick Hines]

That dispatcher is also an Occam's Razor, girly.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They're like, can I speak to a woman? This feels not right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know. And they put Mayumi on the phone. Now, there is kind of a language barrier with Mayumi, but she's like, yes, my husband just told you. Like, he's in a flying saucer head fam. I cannot state this more clearly. He's in a flying saucer headed into the flight pattern of the local Casper airport.

[Patrick Hines]

Says his father, who just, I guess, happens to know the air traffic off the top of his head.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God. Go to hell, Pensaboli. Go to hell.

[Patrick Hines]

I will see you there. Bob Hefferman, investigator. He's driving around in his cop car, counting the seconds until he's off duty so he can go elk hunting.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I was like, bob, this is just so wild.

[Patrick Hines]

He gets the call, hauls ass over to the Heaney house.

[Julia Betzvolli]

He gets a call. He's like, I got a call about a boy supposedly who went up in a flying saucer.

[Patrick Hines]

And everyone except the parents are, like, hoping against hope that Falcon is not in the balloon. But the parents are like, he's in the balloon and there's no other option.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And I'm like, oh, no.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That's a choice if you see it from, like, the outside perspective. Like, the kids are like, we watched him go in, and then the saucer took off.

[Patrick Hines]

They sure did. They saw. And he said it a bunch of times. They even have it on camera.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But I'm just saying to the cop, like, if I'm the cop, I'm like, because the cop does then go search the house, he says, three times.

[Patrick Hines]

Three times, top to bottom. Like, they search it as they. This according to the cop, this house could not be searched any better.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Or any more times.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes. And so everybody just is like, oh, my God, that kid is in the flying saucer.

[Patrick Hines]

And then now, like, the whole neighborhood is searching. They're looking at the parks and playgrounds, other backyards, and then suddenly it's all over the local news, where someone literally says, we'll get to the economy in a second.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, remember in 2009, it was like. That was like the crash of all crashes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. 2008. Right. But we were still, like, digging, grappling out of it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Dealing with it. Right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now he has been in the air. We get the on screen text. An hour and nine minutes and one second. I'm Kim Christensen. We'll get to the economy in just a moment. But first, some breaking news about a very unusual situation. It involves a child and a home built aircraft in the shape of a UFO powered by helium. The child's father actually called our information center in a panic, asking if we would launch our helicopter.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Gillian.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

He calls the local news because he knows they have a helicopter. And I said, richard, way to think on your feet again.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Why am I even here?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know, but it's fun for me.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Why am I even here?

[Patrick Hines]

It's a little fun. It's a little fun.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I was so giving them the benefit.

[Patrick Hines]

Of the doubt, like, I guess a lot. Here's the thing that happened here. I think looking back on it, everyone was like wrapped up in the chaos.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

It was one of those things where everything was happening so fast that you don't really have time to think.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And that's what we have here.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We'll get to it when we get to it. But there is a thing that happens. Like we are promised something in the documentary that doesn't happen. And I'm like, okay, okay, we'll get to it in a minute.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. So, yeah, the father's calling the news, asking them to send out their helicopter, and they do it. And I'm like, why?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, of. Well, of course, dude. There was like a kid 10,000ft in the air.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah. So the balloon has been spotted in the sky and it's described as a needle in the haystack. I'm like, it's the sky.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It's a UFO in the sky.

[Patrick Hines]

In the open sky.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It's a UFO.

[Patrick Hines]

What do you mean a needle? What, are there 10,000 UFOs in the sky?

[Julia Betzvolli]

But the other thing, too is that, like, Jimmy is the name of the pilot, and he's like, okay, so we found the thing. Now what?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Julia Betzvolli]

There's nothing they can do.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, no matter what happens, all we can do is watch.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And hopefully nothing horrifying happens on live television.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I. I mean, nobody considers that. Nobody considers that at any moment this kid could wake up from his nap, roll over and fall 10,000ft.

[Patrick Hines]

Or some people, I think, in the most cynical ways, are kind of hoping for it, like, in terms of rage.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And this podcast broke you.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, Like, I think there are some people being like, oh, no.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, no. It'd be a real shame if we got the best ratings of our goddamn life.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Can you imagine how awful.

[Patrick Hines]

It's network. It's the. It's the movie network. If you haven't seen the movie. Network, please do it. That's. I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore. That's like the most cynical, like, live news point of view you can. You can get from the 70s way before it's time. But anyway, Robert Sanchez is here. He's a local journalist. He's the guy who's like, it looks like a Jiffy Pop thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. In this, he writes for a magazine called 5280 magazine.

[Patrick Hines]

So this thing is actually moving, like, pretty quickly across the sky.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, yes, and also moving really quickly across the airwaves. You see what I did there? Because I am watching the TV when MSNBC breaks into a Barack Obama town hall.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm gonna ask all three of you to hang on just a minute because we have rather an incredible breaking point.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I'm flipping through the channels and this has gone from a hyper local story to abc, NBC, cbs, cnn, Fox News. It's national news in minutes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's all over Twitter. It's like, trending all over the place. The National Guard is involved. Someone says, this is an Apollo 13 situation. First of all, how dare you? Second of all, how dare you?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Third of all.

[Patrick Hines]

Second of all, you could take it up with my husband. He'll be home on Thursday. That movie is so good.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. It's an Apollo 13 situation. Can.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know? But they say it's ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Fox. Like, every station is going live with this. And, like, I remember this. I remember, like, I mean, can you imagine, like, there's a little boy in a flying saucer headed for the airspace of the airport and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

[Patrick Hines]

And the news is just reported sight unseen that like, yep, there's a kid in there.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't hear. Maybe there was. I did not watch all footage from every fucking channel that was reporting this. But I'm not hearing here. Allegedly, we're told, reportedly, seemingly. It's just like, no, there's a fucking kid in there and he's 20,000ft in the sky and, oh, my God, there's nothing we could do but watch. And fingers crossed, nothing bad happens.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Do you think this is how we prove that jet packs don't exist?

[Patrick Hines]

Because if there were jetpacks, like the Rocketeer.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, if there were. Because you ever, like, like, scroll TikTok and then you see, like, people on jet packs and you're like, is that real or is this a. If jetpacks were real, somebody would have gone out and got that kid. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

In Colorado.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, that's how this works, right? Like, you put on your jetpack, you go get the little boy.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Yeah, I guess so.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So they're not real. We, We. We proved it.

[Patrick Hines]

The Rocketeer is very real in my heart.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, great. Of course.

[Patrick Hines]

So Richard Heaney has the audacity to say to us today, we couldn't afford cable.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

So I was in the dark as to what was going on, but one of the cops told me I gotta stay put. And I'm like, I can't just stand here and this. Do nothing. I needed to know what the hell was going on.

[Patrick Hines]

I was totally in the dark about the chaos that was ensuing. First of all, bullshit. Second of all, this was on every single channel, including the ones you don't need cable for.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, but he says we couldn't afford cable. Like, that really hit me.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, but you have. What are the other channels? 2, 4, 5, 7, 11.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, maybe they didn't have a TV because they couldn't afford cable. And what would be the point?

[Patrick Hines]

They had a tv. And also, Mario, you should be in the chaos. What are you doing at home? Your child is about to fall out of the sky.

[Julia Betzvolli]

In Richard's defense, according to Richard, he was to stay put by the cops.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, so people are trying to be part of the story. Typical, right? Like calling the cops in the news saying they saw something fall out of the popcorn air balloon thing. But, like, for the sake of being.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Involved, is an image. And it is, like, they say later, the image is, like, grainy and. But, like, it. That was. That's really scary.

[Patrick Hines]

The thing what I find scarier is that the cops are like, it's not the best photo. It totally could be a bird. But we have to assume that this is credible. And I'm like, do we. Do we have to assume that it's credible?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, I mean, I think the proof would be in the pudding, right? Like, I think if a kid fell out of a balloo, you'd be able to find him pretty easily.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, yeah, you know what I mean? I just sort of took courage with.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Like, I'm agreeing with you. I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, like, why do we have to assume that it's credible?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, here's the thing. I'm coming to your side on this. Yeah, but I think in the moment, the cops have searched the house three times. They didn't find the kid. So they're believing in. I mean, unless they think that the family, like, told the kid to go hide in the woods or go hide somewhere else. Like, everyone, really. And, like, the parents are crying, and I. I think that, like, everyone's believing. Like, if he's not here, he's got to be there.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone's very wrapped up in. Yeah, for sure.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But it also does track for them, like, for the cops, that, like, if the kid isn't in the house and one kid says he saw him get in the balloon, like, that's gotta be where he is. And then if he falls, I mean, my God, like, that is just horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

Horrifying. He's been in the air for two hours and 20 minutes.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And now the Jiffy Pop balloon thing is starting to deflate.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It is clearly losing a tremendous amount.

[Patrick Hines]

In the last 15 minutes.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Even I think he's less than 200ft.

[Patrick Hines]

Off the ground at this point.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

He's going down. Here it goes. Oh, yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Coming almost straight in. Very soft, very soft.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Look at that.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Very softly, very softly. I mean, it's almost like.

[Patrick Hines]

It says, like, one of the choreographed.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It's.

[Patrick Hines]

I think I find it very funny when you, like, watch something like this happen or if someone's skydiving and then they're just like. And then they just go, like, they plop.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It's a very, like, gentle kind of plop. And then they always fall.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. That's like me skiing. That's the only way I know how to fall.

[Patrick Hines]

They always just end on the ground. It's a very gentle plop.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But this one was just like. I was like, damn, that's pretty. Like, I feel like you couldn't make that happen if you tried.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like a ballet.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, kind of. But, like. Cause it could have gone a lot worse. It could have been, like, all of a sudden, there's no helium, and it just drops 10,000ft.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah. So now a news photographer runs to it. Not any of the family. A photographer.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I was saying that, like, this is, like, some ET Shit, because it was actually filmed kind of beautifully because the thing lands and you see, like, ambulances and fire trucks and cars all, like, screeching towards this thing. And there's this one, like, the local photojournalist on the ground. He's the only one there. And this is really wild and kind of heartbreaking because he's the one that, like, is the first to say, well.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I've got some information that. I'm not quite sure how to. How to say it, but I don't believe that they found anybody with this balloon.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I don't know how to Say this, but there's no little kid in here.

[Patrick Hines]

And everyone immediately goes to tragedy. Somehow the boy has died and vanished into thin air.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I don't know how. I don't know how they possibly couldn't. What else would they be thinking?

[Patrick Hines]

Instead of maybe thinking of the much more likely scenario that he wanted wasn't actually in there in the first place?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, once again, I think that like, the house was searched three times by the cops. The kid said he saw the kid get in. The parents are sobbing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like tears this time or.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know either.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, all I'm saying is like, I'm giving these people like the benefit of the doubt. You are right. I think these people are wrapped up in this. But I don't think given the set of facts that everybody had, I would think the same thing. I'd be like, he must have fallen out.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because it's been two hours of like. This is the now. Right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, we're doing our best. We're still like most likely not getting all of the essential nutrients we need daily, right?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, we're talking nine key nutrients in two delayed release capsules designed for optimal absorption per day. They got you covered. It's gonna get into your system.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that's why we're loving the essential for women. 18 plus multi, like that's what it's all about. And they're designed to be gentle on the stomach with a minty essence in every bottle. So it helps taking your multis actually enjoyable, because I gotta tell you, I know it sounds like I'm a kid, but that's sometimes a struggle for me taking these pills. But their minty essence really helps me out.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And they also love the science. So Ritual even conducted a university led clinical trial. And guess what? The results, it increased vitamin D levels by 43% and omega 3 DHA levels by 41% in just 12 weeks. That's no time.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

So look, there's no monthly fees or maintenance fees on the checking account. And not to mention the fact that you get access to over 47,000 free ATMs. That's more than the top three national banks combined. The fees alone would pay my rent.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean I. Are you kidding? Six bucks? Seven bucks? I mean, some of those fees are crazy.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I once paid a $20 fee.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

And it does.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

I love that. And I understand why, because you're watching it with a very specific perspect not giving you at all. But no, no, no. I'm sobbing during this part at the cuz. I mean, I know that the kid's okay. I've seen. I've seen the documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

There's an excellent chance. I'm. My point of view is completely.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, no, no. I. I'm just saying I'm enjoying your. I mean, I love. You know, I love your snark and I love it here. I'm all day, every day. But I'm just saying. Are two very different experiences of watching this where I'm like. Even though I know that the kid's going to be all right, like, I'm living in the moment of these people, like these neighbors thinking, like we're gonna. Because one of the neighbors, like we were planning a community funeral, falling 10,000ft to his death.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So anyway, guess who pops his head out from around the kitchen doorway.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I just remember turning around. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Falcon, you're home. I couldn't believe it. It was the greatest surprise I ever had. Falcon, can you believe it? I mean, the timing. Are you. Wait a minute. After this dramatic landing, I know when everyone is still way too wrapped up in the. To possibly think clearly. I mean, there he is. I mean, wow.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So now we get grown up Falcon. He sits down and he's ready to talk. And this is when I'm like, okay, so now we're gonna shift gears, right? Like, this is the moment where the whole family is gonna explain the whole plan and that they just wanted to be on TV and that like, it was a hoax the whole time. And they knew it and they were acting. And now this is where they're gonna come clean, right? No.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Listener, the family, all of them.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That thought never occurred to me because.

[Patrick Hines]

The way they have grown. Cause it's like, oh, my God. Like, there he is. We couldn't believe it. And then it's like, this is the first time we're seeing grown up Falcon.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like sits. It's a. Like, it's a. Not like a tactic, but a technique we've seen a million times in documentaries. Right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It's very effective.

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, oh. He's gonna be like, oh. My parents told me what to do, and this is what I did, and this is where I hid. And we gotcha well.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But even more, in my opinion, important than that, we learned that, like, for anybody who doesn't know, you learn that Falcon didn't die. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So it's kind of like. It's like, oh, my. It's a very effective. It's like in Abducted in Plain Sight, when you see Jan for the first time, you're like, oh, my. And very early.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank God they did it early. I couldn't. I mean, so that's where I was like, oh, yeah, he's going to come clean, you guys know.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, but also, remember, Falcon was six, you know what I mean? Like, even if. Even if this is a hoax and he was in on it, he's still innocent.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? But I'm not saying. I'm just saying I thought this was going to be like, let me tell you how we did this.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And as far as I'm concerned, every last one of these people of the Heaneys are keeping up what I believe is bullshit because they want us to believe that Falcon was up sleeping in the attic through. All through the three police searches, two hours of screaming and crying and chaos on the front lawn.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I will say that it's not like that attic in the house. It's the attic in the garage. And it is described as his, quote, new hiding spot.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And so we will actually see it at the very end. It is a tiny crawl space that you have to, like, you know. And basically, Falcon tells the story. What.

[Patrick Hines]

What this image that they paint is like, is Falcon coming down the stairs like it's Christmas morning, rubbing his eyes, like, yawning, like, mommy, why are you crying? Yeah, like this innocent little. And the dad's like, well, son, you had us worried. And I'm like, this isn't the Jetsons. This is not the fucking Donna Reed show.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, but I mean, like, he's crying, they're crying. Everybody's all emotional. And Falcon tells us on the day of the launch, he was trying. Trying to sneak into the flying saucer. And like, we see video of the dad yelling at him once.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

He yelled at me a few times. I was scared, and I was like, you know what? I'm just not going to be here. And then I remember wanting to go inside and just chill out for a bit. I made my way through the house up to my new hiding spot, the garage attic. I just chilled there for a while. And then I got bored. Bored. Fell asleep.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's bored and he falls asleep. And then he only came downstairs because he was hungry, not because there was absolute chaos for two and a half hours. Screaming, crying. And they didn't think to go, oh, that. How about that new hiding spot? Nobody thought to check that for so.

[Julia Betzvolli]

New that nobody knew where it was.

[Patrick Hines]

What about the parents?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, I mean, maybe they didn't know. Yeah, I mean, I do think it's interesting that we have all of this footage of him climbing into it, but we have no footage of him climbing out.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, it's real weird. Yeah, it is weird, isn't it? So at 5:05pm even more chaos because all the reporters want a piece of the action.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes. And now, because it cannot be overstated, what a media circus this has become. Like the media has taken over their block. I mean, it's that whole thing where it's like just like truck after truck after truck of like media everywhere.

[Patrick Hines]

And that was before he was found hungry and confused in the kitchen being like, why? Why are you crying, Mommy? Like, so Jim is the. The county sheriff, and he's like, well, Richard, the dad decided he wanted to go and address the media. Oh, I bet he.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, Richard now is saying, no, I didn't want to do that. They made me do it.

[Patrick Hines]

And so. And it's not like he's good at it, because opening his mouth is what furthered all these questions about this whole thing being fake.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Especially because now they go on Larry King. And Richard's like, fine, I'll do one show. And like the one show that I'm totally picking at random because I do not care at all.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And I guess I'll pick fine, Larry King, whatever jokes on them, because they.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Don'T get Larry King. They get fucking Blitzer.

[Patrick Hines]

They get Wolf Blitzer. The whole family's on TV, the parents, the three kids, who again are all under 10.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Wolf Blitzer's like, want to go right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Out to Fort Collins, Colorado? I don't know if Falcon can hear me, but was he? Because I know at some point he fell asleep in that garage. Did he hear you screaming out, falcon, Falcon.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey, buddy. Hey, Falcon, can you hear me? Because you didn't hear all those people screaming for you for two and a half hours. Slept through all that commotion, did ya? And I'm like, whoa, wait, do you.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Think Blitzer's on your side? You think that he thinks it's totally a hoax?

[Patrick Hines]

Totally.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You can't bullshit a Blitzer.

[Patrick Hines]

No, you can't bullshit a Blitzer 101 zillion percent. He's trash though, now, right?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't keep up.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I cannot keep up.

[Patrick Hines]

And if he was, it happened 10 years ago. I don't know.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You can't bullshit a Blitzer.

[Patrick Hines]

But the annoying dad is like, hey, Falcon. He's asking if you heard us calling your name at any time, speaking to his kid. Like they are first meeting, like they've never met. And Falcon goes, he says, yes. And the parents are like, you did? And I'm like, oh, Falcon's going off script.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I.

[Patrick Hines]

This is why they say to not work with kids or animals in show business.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, but, but this is the other thing. Like, if my whole idea is that if, if this was a hoax and you know that six year olds are unpredictable and you cannot tell them to do anything, why would you go on.

[Patrick Hines]

Larry King got away from everyone, including the parents.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, and I. My big note here is like, if you work in media training, let this episode be a commercial for your business. Some people might think that media training is bullshit. This is a commercial for. Wrong. If you don't get proper media training.

[Patrick Hines]

And also actually to be totally insufferable for two seconds.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

You know that quote where it's like, this is why you shouldn't work with kids in show business. That I just referenced kids and animals. That is actually, it's not a warning. People use it as kind of a warning. The original idiom or whatever is about how they would. They're probably going to steal the show. Like the cute kid, the cute animal will probably upstage you. But in this case, I'm going to use it as the warning.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, Falcon certainly does here because finally, like, it's this whole thing and this is what like these interviews used to be like in the 90s where there'd be one with an earpiece in trying to translate to the whole family and nobody can hear anybody because the.

[Patrick Hines]

Dad'S like, well, then, son, why didn't you come out?

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

He's asking, Falcon, did you hear us calling your name at any time? You did, you did. Why didn't you come out?

[Julia Betzvolli]

You guys said that we did this.

[Patrick Hines]

For the show, man. No, well, because you said not to, that we did this all for the show and the dad maybe.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, now I'm going to be insufferable because it wasn't like that. He didn't say that. What he said was, you guys said, we were doing this for the show. And he says it. He. He says it like to his dad, like, wait, what are you talking about?

[Patrick Hines]

Off script?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. And like, and then now, to your credit, the dad immediately goes, maybe in.

[Patrick Hines]

The realest moment to date, kind of hangs his head in defeat and he goes, man, kind of like, man, we almost had it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes, because Mayumi, the mom before he does that, Mayumi goes, no, they are.

[Patrick Hines]

All like, falcon, yeah, maybe don't hang your hat on the six year old.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But the thing about it though is that it can be Seen both ways, it can be seen as like, oh, shit, he just blew our cover. Or, oh, God, he just made this so much worse.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause the mom's like, no, no, no. Now, today on Netflix, the father will say two conflicting interesting things. First, he says that the earpiece had, like, so much feedback that he couldn't hear anything. And then when pressed by the person behind the camera, he goes, yeah, well, I heard him a little, but that doesn't mean I understood what he said. And I'm like, yeah, this.

[Julia Betzvolli]

He's not making himself look good. Here I was thinking, if this were me, and I were dumb enough to, you know, be involved in any of this, but then also to go on Larry King, which is actually a Blitzer.

[Patrick Hines]

And then switcheroo the Blitzer. Switcheroo, switcheroo.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And then Daisy pulls some shit like saying, you did it for the show. I think it could be re read as Richard knowing immediately what's going to happen immediately, everyone's going to think we made this up for some TV show.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, he. This guy doesn't have an answer for the exchange. Now, I got to slow down on something because we get all of these Internet comments because remember, the Internet and the world was following this for a couple hours, right? So we see a couple of comments.

[Julia Betzvolli]

They make it look like TikTok, but it must have been like. Like MySpace, you know?

[Patrick Hines]

It wasn't that, was it. What year was this? 2009. But we get one where it's like, oh, my God, this is a scam. The little boy slipped up. Balloon boy was a hoax. Then we get one. One of my favorite Internet comments of all time, maybe my favorite, because I can't name another Internet comment. This made me laugh so hard. The comment is, and I quote, now, put a shithead dad in a balloon and launch it. And it. It's the launch it that killed me. The way this was worded made me laugh so hard. Now put the shithead dad in a balloon and launch it. I was like, who's that? I want to be friends with that.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Person because I just want to reiterate. I do think that Richard's reaction can be seen as, this whole thing is now gonna take on a life of its own. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And then. Yeah, but do you, though?

[Patrick Hines]

And then what happens is, Friday, the next morning, they go on yet another show to do damage control.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And they talk to Diane Sawyer. And my first question is, why Diane? Why are you even entertaining this? And I know the answer is that if she doesn't, some competitor would.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So she, Barbara Walters is gonna get it.

[Patrick Hines]

Essentially had to. And they just want attention and Diane Sawyer's giving them what they want. And I know, dear listener, yes, we are doing that exact same thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But this time they prepped Falcon, or so they thought, to really bring the dramatics.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes. The thing is, before anybody opens their mouth, Falcon is sitting there like nuzzled up next to his dad. He looks so sad and exhausted and tired and uncomfortable. Diane Sawyer is in the middle of talking Falcon, six year old Falcon goes, mom, I feel like I'm going to vomit. Oh. But then Falcon starts getting sick. Being on tv.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Should we take you to the bathroom or something?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Is he okay?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Is somebody going to go with him? I do want to run with him. That's okay, we'll understand.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. Okay, we understand.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Nobody follows him.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and then he doesn't really throw up. He just says that open mouth cough that kids and rude adults do.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But, but he leaves. And the adults don't like his mom or dad doesn't go with him. And Diana's like, mayumi, did you want to go with him?

[Patrick Hines]

She's like, is there an adult in the room?

[Julia Betzvolli]

But I totally understand why these parents feel like they can't. Why. I totally understand that they feel like Diane Sawyer is here. She is the king of me. She is the boss of me. And unless somebody tells me that I can get up and leave, I'm not allowed to get up. I can, I really can understand that. Like, I don't want to this up. I don't want to this up for them. We framed this shot. Like, I, I don't, I don't. I'm like, as a parent, I feel like I've probably been in that situation where I'm like, I know the right thing to do is this, but why won't my body let me do it? Like, I think that that is a, that's a real. It doesn't make them shoot shitty people. It doesn't make them, in my opinion, like media hungry. I think they really didn't want to get in trouble with Diane Sawyer.

[Patrick Hines]

Interesting, you know, because I was thinking that's okay. Interesting to hear because I was like, well, if this was real, his parents would have told everyone to go fuck themselves and protect their kids. Well being and like try to maybe help their kid who may or may not be throwing up all over their home.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I do think though, there is another way to look at it which is just like. But we, this is our last Big platform to be able to say, like, no, no, no, no, no. What we said yesterday isn't real. What we said yesterday is not really what happened to God. We didn't. Like, we didn't make this up.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You know, okay.

[Patrick Hines]

That's fair enough.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And we'll never know the truth, really. But I think that. I think that it can be. It can be seen both ways.

[Patrick Hines]

Because I would be thinking. I'm not arguing. I'm just sharing my perspective. I would be thinking, like, I don't really give a shit if you believe me or not. This is what happened. And my kid is literally getting sick over it. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Go fuck yourself. I don't care if you believe me.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And that's why it's like, more to your point, what happens next, because that is exactly what should have happened. Look, the Blitzy Blitzer shouldn't have happened. The Diane Sawyer shouldn't have happened, but they did. And so then it's like, now it should be like, we can't do this. Right? We don't know how to do this. We need to shut this down.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We are not speaking. We are not talking. We're going to get in the car and try to go somewhere safe where we can hide and, like, get our life back together.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the Blitzer interview was a mess. Then the damage control interview with Diane Sawyer, also a mess. But now everyone watching is like, wait, who are these people?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Like, what's their story?

[Patrick Hines]

Is this real? Have they done anything like this before? Turns out they were on wife swap. Travel down the road.

[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Betzvolli]

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[Patrick Hines]

Using our link function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And our first 1000 listeners get a $100 credit toward their membership.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Visit www.functionhealth.com tco or use gift code tco100at. Sign up to own your health. You're going to love this dashboard. I love it.

[Patrick Hines]

You're going to love it, and you got to own it. That's the thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Own it.

[Patrick Hines]

We got to do it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, can we just take a second for wife Swap?

[Patrick Hines]

We need to go into this. Like, I.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You watch the episodes. I haven't watched these, but I. It's a terrible name. I hate the name, but I loved wife swap so much.

[Patrick Hines]

Tell me why.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Because it was a really good reality show where it seemed like every time both famil families learned a valuable lesson, it was like that, right? Yeah. They would take these families from, like, wildly different experiences and the husbands would switch houses.

[Patrick Hines]

Like a family swap. Kind of like the spouses.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Right, the spouse. Exactly. The wife swap was like a grabby title. It's so dumb. And then the new person in the home would have to come and sort of, like, do things their way, but also make the family do things. There were like, you know, like, the kids were shitty, and the new mom is like a, you know, a more of a disciplinarian. She would implement that.

[Patrick Hines]

Did you feel like it was put on for the cameras? Did you feel like it was magnified on purpose? Like, did you really believe, like, these people are being who they are?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, I did. And they would really struggle. Like, you would always. They're missing their families, but they're also not being accepted into their new. And sometimes it would work out great.

[Patrick Hines]

It does sound really, like, almost painful to go through. It doesn't sound fun to do.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It would always end up with almost. Not every time, but it would almost always end up with like. Like, these people hating each other at the beginning of the week. And now at the end, they're like, I still don't really like Stan, but I understand where he's coming from. And this is what I've learned about this way of living that I didn't know. Maybe I'll take this back to my.

[Patrick Hines]

Family and they would, like, come together at the end. Right. And all kind of discuss.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And not every episode, not every time, but there was a. There was.

[Patrick Hines]

You can't have a happy ending every time you have a little bit of drama.

[Julia Betzvolli]

There was like, a lesbian wife that went to a straight family once that was mildly homophobic. Yeah, it was.

[Patrick Hines]

What did she do wrong?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know, listen, give me my lesbian back. It didn't work every. But I. It was one of those shows that I watched all the time. I love.

[Patrick Hines]

Of course, the example of a time it didn't work was when the lesbian, like much, I'm sure, very, very heteronormative.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes. But I. I want to say, even in that episode, like, the dude ended up in the end was like, you know what lesbians are? Okay? No homo.

[Patrick Hines]

A little homo.

[Julia Betzvolli]

A little. A little homo.

[Patrick Hines]

He went from no homo to maybe homo.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Homo for Jane.

[Patrick Hines]

A little bit.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So here's the thing. The dad was like a mean, abusive nightmare. So we meet Sherry Silver, who is a wife that he got matched with, and she sits down and she's like, when I saw the flying saucer on the tv, I thought, I don't know why they were saying the kid was in the balloon. But I knew that he wasn't. And how did you know that he wasn't? I'm a psychic. Well, because I'm a psychic. And I'm like, no one needs to be psychic to know.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But this is misleading because it seems like Sharia's here to talk shit. Because we see clips from his episode. He's throwing things at me. He's being horrible to her.

[Patrick Hines]

Horrifying.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But that's not the case. She's here to defend him.

[Patrick Hines]

So Richard claims that he only did wife swap because they offered. Offered to pay us and we needed the money. He says it like they chased him down and begged him to be on the show. Girl, you still applied for it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But the thing about it, like, this is what? Like, the money thing really gets me in the heart because it's like, he's got three kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And I'm thinking about the kids, not him. That's why he said, like, we couldn't afford cable. I was like. And like, he needed the money so bad that he had to go to a reality show. Like, it really.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, he didn't have to, though, because his whole. So let me just back up for a second.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

It turns out they were on one Wife Swap twice.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, because they were, like, a fan favorite or something.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. I was shocked. So the first EP is season five, episode one, if you want to watch it. And it's not the episode with Cherie the psychic.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

They are described as storm chasers. They pull their kids out of school. Like, very similar to that footage from earlier where you're like, the kids are, like, in grave danger. So they're described as, like, the wild Heaney family, where the kids are totally unruly. The wild, teeny kids are encouraged to live a life of fun, adventure, and excitement.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, God.

[Patrick Hines]

So they're matched with a family who's, like, really strict and really rigid and also scared of everything.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

So it's like this fearless, outrageous family matched with a family who's, like, literally scared of the microwave. Scared of sushi. Really? So Richard is super mean and abusive to both his real wife and the wife he's swapped with.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

The bottom line is you're lazy and you don't want to do a damn.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Thing, and you suck.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, sexist, angry, loud. He's a child.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And Mayumi does everything his current wife and wants to he. And like, they show it on the show that, like, all he does is, quote, research all day, which is fuck around on the computer all day. So it's not.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I mean, we've seen this a thousand times.

[Patrick Hines]

It's not like he can't work. It's that he's not working.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's very like, I'm a genius. I have to. I'm doing my research for science. But it's like, you could be a barista during the day.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That's what I'm saying. I'm not sad for him about the money. I'm sad for the kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But I was one of those kids.

[Patrick Hines]

He could have worked, and he's choosing not to.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But that's what I'm saying. Like, I get it. He's a. He's a monster. But when. When talks about, like, needing money, like, all I can think about is, like, the stuff that the kids don't have.

[Patrick Hines]

I under. I understand, but it's not like there's other ways for. He could just, like, get a fucking job.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No question. He's a monster. You know, but it. But. But the money stuff's still being expensive.

[Patrick Hines]

And the kids are I gotta say, come for me. I guess I really don't give a shit, but they are complete nightmares. They're climbing on everything. They're screaming, they're cursing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Kids are, like, who their parents raised them to be.

[Patrick Hines]

They're burping and farting. The house is filthy. And all of this is like, aren't they adorable? And I'm like, whoa. Not my thing. So the episode with the psychic is season five, episode 18, because that was viewer's choice. So the viewers voted on who they wanted to see again. And they picked Richard.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, of course, because he was, like, the most explosive and, like, the. They're not picking them because they're nice. They're picking them because they're fucking housewives.

[Patrick Hines]

Wow.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

That just hit me like a ton of bricks.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Really?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean. Yeah. I mean. Yes.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, you kind of. I'm sure it's like, you kind of have to see it to believe it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So that's why I was so curious, like, what your. What you loved about the show, because.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, I know I probably didn't know make it that far. It was probably more wholesome, like, in the beginning days where it was like, let's learn a lesson every time.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Like, it could be where it's like, wow, they really. Wow. Their minds were open. But now it's like, let's get the storm chasers who don't want their kids to be, like, nice to people versus the people who are afraid of the microwave.

[Julia Betzvolli]

That's why I'm so confused as to why Sheri is here, because when she.

[Patrick Hines]

Says, as I got to know Ms. Tahini on the show, I saw that he was a very caring person about his children, and I just couldn't imagine that he would purposely say that his son was in the balloon.

[Julia Betzvolli]

She knows how much he loves his kids, and he would never put them in danger. And I'm like, cherie, if he was awful to you, why are you here defending him?

[Patrick Hines]

And what about the time he drives them into tornadoes?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Right, Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Putting them in danger.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Exactly. What am I missing? Yeah. I just thought it was wild that, like, she was here to, like, defend him.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Anyway, in an effort to prove how real this whole thing is, the family releases the. What I believe believe are obviously staged home movies.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

The ones we saw earlier. They think it's going to help them because at one point, remember, this is all in their backyard, like, at magic hour. Perfect lighting, and so it's like a static camera. And at one point, like, when the chaos is ensuing, Mayumi and Richard, like, meet their mark right in front of the camera and at the same time go, what? Perfectly in unison, almost in harmony. And I'm like, there's no way way this is meant to help them. Also. Just stop talking.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But that's what I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut your mouth and go away.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And media training people, like, once again, this is a commercial for your business.

[Patrick Hines]

Tend to your traumatized child.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Or not traumatized, because he wasn't actually in it anyway. Like what? Like, what does it matter?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah. Well, because they released that footage out to, like, the news, and then now the news is running the footage. All anybody sees Richard is saying they want the news to show. I didn't know if he was in there or not. All anyone is seeing is him screaming at his wife and kicking. Kicking that chair over.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, they had hundreds of publicists being like, let me help you. And Richard was like, no, I can do it. Like, throwing it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

It's so obvious that Richard is the, for lack of a better term, mastermind behind this whole thing, because it's a nightmare. It's a. It's an impulsive mess.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Every single thing he does to make it better makes it worse.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, just.

[Julia Betzvolli]

It really is kind of unbelievable. It's almost like you'd call it a train wreck, almost. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I said, yeah. So Saturday, it's only been two days. I know, I know it's only been two days. The cops call Richard down to the station.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I get a call stating that I could come down to the sheriff's office and pick up my flying saucer. So I went down, I was excited. Hey, I'm gonna get my flying saucer. And then he says, before I give you your flying saucer, do you mind if I ask a few questions so we can clear things up? And he asked me if I to wanted. Wouldn't mind taking a polygraph while we have you.

[Patrick Hines]

Will you take this polygraph for us?

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. My favorite part about this is that it's a Saturday. The sheriff is in full Saturday drag. And the sheriff is here to tell us how proud he is of this whole move. Cause he's like, I wanted to go down there and be like, I thought.

[Patrick Hines]

You were gonna say the American flag button down shirt that he's wearing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, what? He's in the video, he's like in a tracksuit. And I'm like. He's like, I'm going down there to be like, richard, girl, like, you're Here to pick up your flying saucer. Why don't you just, like, take. If you take a polygraph and you pass it, then you could go out there and throw it in everybody's face. You had absolutely nothing to do with. Now, Richard, who can only make bad decision, 100% agrees.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And the polygraph is insane because we see it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, and this is what is also. See. Oh, my God. Like, I was, like, I was making excuses for this because he's sitting down to take the polygraph, except he isn't. He's literally trying to make himself fall. The sheriff was like. He was trying to make himself fall asleep.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, his falling asleep is just, like, kind of tipping over.

[Julia Betzvolli]

He's trying to do what? Like, he read on the Internet is how you, like, fake a polygraph test or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

The sheriff, to us is like, he did every trick in the book that's published in documents. Meant that any one of you sitting at home can find these in a. In a quick Google search.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And he looks ridiculous. And then, like, the test comes back inconclusive. And I was like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, a poly for. This is so stupid anyway.

[Julia Betzvolli]

100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, it's just a ridiculous thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

But then the police speak to his wife, Maomi, and they give her a polygraph, and this is when everything changes.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Okay, but this is where I say the documentary does not deliver, okay? Because the documentary says to us. They say that she says things that we don't hear her say in this interview.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

You.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, walk me through this, because let me tell you two sentences I have written down, okay? Because I have. We see the footage of her at the police station having this conversation, and then we have her today describing it. And they're two completely different things.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Number. Okay, we're going to get into all of this. Number one, the police are going to tell us that Mayumi. After two minutes, she breaks and she acknowledges that this whole thing was a hoax.

[Patrick Hines]

She's, like, exhausted, despondent.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But we never hear her say that. Like, what is happening is that they are giving her a bunch of leading questions, and then she'll say, say yes or no to it. That is not the same as her saying, yes, we made this up. Yes, we told Falcon to do this. Yes, this was a hoax. And then we're all. Now she's going to tell us that.

[Patrick Hines]

Back then, my English was horse. And the word hoax itself, I misunderstood.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

This was all a hoax. Okay? She had a degree in English from Japan, went to three more years of.

[Julia Betzvolli]

College in the United States, it was not a language barrier. We keep being told that Mayumi is saying, yes, this was a hoax. Yes, we made this up. We never hear her say that.

[Patrick Hines]

So they ask her, did you guys build this for the purpose of a hoax? And her response is, honestly, this is a quote. Honestly, this experiment itself was not only for this.

[Julia Betzvolli]

What? That makes no sense now.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. Fine. Fair enough.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, she does not say in the moment, I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at you. No, no, no, I hear you, but. But I. This is important, I think, because she does not say in the moment to the cop that she doesn't know the word hoax, because they're going to say that she doesn't know the word hoax. And she honestly, to me, looks kind of relieved to be telling the truth for once.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And wouldn't you be? Yes. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But we learned she has a degree in English from Japan. She went to three more years of college in the United States. And what they're getting at is that even if she doesn't know the word hoax, she could at the very least say that she didn't understand the word hoax. And I'm sorry. Sorry. Like, do you really think that these cops, like, they're talking to a petite, despondent woman whose English is not her.

[Julia Betzvolli]

First language and who hasn't slept in three days?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I just wonder if maybe. Maybe they were, maybe they weren't. But, like, I think the family's been trying to get famous for years. And to me, May seems relieved.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I agree with that. I just. They tell us that she says things that she didn't say because she agrees to things that the cops say, which is not the same thing. And I also feel like we have to remember this is a woman who's married to a tyrant, for sure. Who she is absolutely used to agreeing with all of the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Now, I don't know Mayumi, but I can imagine that how she gets through difficult situations with men that she's intimidated by. She just says, yes. She just agrees.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You know?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Because I asked her, like, did you tell the kids what you were doing? And she kind of whispers, we told.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Them, yes, but, like, what does that. Like, we don't get any full statement from Mayumi. She never says, yes, this was a hoax. Yes, we made this up. She's agreeing to a lot of things. She's giving half statements like, it just. To me, this is. We have to throw this away, because this is. It feels like they're taking advantage of this woman who's exhausted and sad and intimidated. And maybe also doesn't have a great command of the language.

[Patrick Hines]

Sure. So. However, doesn't stop the cops from moving forward charges.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Last night, police seized evidence from the Heaney home. And of the four charges the department hopes to file over the next few days, two are class four felonies, which carry up to six years of jail time and $500,000 in fines. Penalties up to six years in jail each, $500,000 fines each. Like, there's a lot going on here.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So somebody approaches Richard with a number. He says, this woman says, this is an attorney. You should give him a call. His name is David Lane, and he is here. And I just have, like, my God, finally somebody is helping them stop. Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, this is Sunday, three days after the launch. When I tell you this is happening, like, one minute after. Yes, but it said Sunday, three days after the launch. I was like, oh, shit. This is a nonstop.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And nobody is sleeping. You know what I mean? And so David Lane is here, and he says, look, the Sunday after the incident, the Heaneys came into my office from Fort Collins. He says, it was obvious to me that they loved those kids with all their hearts and souls. Also that Miami's English is not good. David, the attorney is saying, we were in my office explaining what the word hoax and fraud means. Whether that's true, whether it's not. That is what David says. And, like, you know, these are the words that you just agreed to in a police interrogation.

[Patrick Hines]

That's totally fair enough. And I gotta tell you, this guy, I googled him because I was like, this guy's so full of shit. He, like, seems pretty great. Like, he's.

[Julia Betzvolli]

He doesn't seem full of shit to me at all.

[Patrick Hines]

But, like, he's very vocal against the death penalty. Like, he's actively. He's like a civil rights litigator. And I was like, so, dude, why are you here? Because this whole, like, he's gonna double and quadruple down on the language barrier.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She was on two episodes of Wife Swap before this happened. We have hours of Mayumi speaking English incredibly well.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But then why, if she wants to confess, why isn't confessing? Why is she giving one word answers, half sentences, and agreeing to statements made by the cops?

[Patrick Hines]

I think she is terrified of her husband. All I'm saying is that.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, I agree with you.

[Patrick Hines]

I think her English is excellent. I don't want to hear anything about the language barrier. She's able to make jokes. She's doing full on Bits. She's pretending she's a psychic on Wife Swap to be like, oh, remember, like your wife. Like she's in on all the jokes.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She's having screaming matches. She's quick, she's. She does not seem like she's not under in the episodes of Wife Swap. So it's hard for me to see her speaking English incredibly well to now. Sort of having her speak it not as well as she used to.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Years prior.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I can hear all of that. But I just. In her interview, she doesn't talk. You know what I mean? Like, she's just agreeing to things and she's giving like one word answers in like half sentences. And it, like it's. It's just not a confession to me.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And legally it is. I mean, like, if the cops write something out and she signs it, it's a confession. You know what I mean? But it's just like they talk about it as though like she offered all of this, which is not true. She's agreeing to things.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I think she's exhausted and not, not just from these last three days. I think it's been a rough many years. Again, I don't mean to assign her things. I mean, can you imagine living with this guy?

[Julia Betzvolli]

No, absolutely not.

[Patrick Hines]

And having it all be filmed and used to try to get famous and like, it's his way or the highway. It's. It's the Richard Show. Like, that's exhausting.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And like they're saying that on top of this, like, language barrier argument, which I don't agree with, that they're saying that the local cops are corrupt and they're comparing it to this other case of what, withholding evidence. And I'm like, girl, sure, cops are corrupt. Two plus two is four. The sky is blue. However, I find that all while true, unrelated to what we're talking about here today. Yeah, I'm not going to take police corruption away from anybody. God knows.

[Julia Betzvolli]

No. And you know, Richard is saying, I told. Now this is where I'm just kind of like, Richard is doubling down. I am not admitting to these charges. No fucking way. I am absolutely not doing this. And this is where we learn now, the cops deny this. Both the prosecutor's office and the sheriff's office deny this. But we are being told that Richard and his family are being told.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

They said, richard, we want you to.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Take a felony conviction.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

We want you to agree to 30 days in jail. If you do that, Mayumi can plead to a misdemeanor that will not cause her to be deported back to Japan.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, you could get deported or you could not if you talk. And that's what, like this is a tactic that is used full stop, no question.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And of course it wasn't written down anywhere. Of course they didn't write it down and give it to him to keep for his records.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Of course they're going to deny it.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, fine, so this never goes anywhere. But again, like, corruption is very, very real. I just don't know how related it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Goes somewhere in the GP column because like, Richard is like, no, I will never, I will never, I will never admit to this. And finally, David is like, but you got to think about your wife because she'll be taken away from your kids. And then cut to court. And David fully admits to it because.

[Patrick Hines]

Then he also gets to be a martyr. So he gets to like, cause all the drama and then also save the day, whatever.

[Julia Betzvolli]

But he's admitting to it. He says only so that his wife won't be deported. Which the sheriff is like, we never threatened that in the first. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, is there a world I would believe either side at this point?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? Because that happens all the time. I don't want you to think that I'm saying it never happens. It happens constantly, of course. Especially in the States.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And you know what? At this point, they've got you. Because if they've got you, if they lose this case and like, like Miami literally gets deported to Japan and taken away, like, can we all stop using the fucking children? The kids are such victims in this. The kids really are victims in this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. They did not ask to be part of this. No insane family.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes. Ultimately, Richard pleads guilty, he gets a.

[Patrick Hines]

30 day sentence and she gets 20 days community service.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Nothing. Now their lawyer is crying. He's like, I'm sorry, I'm a cry. This just really brings me. It's just so unfair. And I'm like, oh, the 20 day community, sir. Like, give me.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know, but if they didn't do it, it is unfair.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, lucky me. We don't have to live in that world because they fucking did it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All right?

[Patrick Hines]

So now everyone does their time and a month later, after this whole inc.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

We came to Florida and started a new life. We found this place. And this place feels like a fortress. It's a place where we can hide and just forget about what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

They pick up and move to Florida.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And I think they're like doomsday preppers now. They're super off the Grid.

[Julia Betzvolli]

They moved to the middle of the woods.

[Patrick Hines]

Florida, we should point out, like, middle of nowhere. And then in 2020, the governor of Colorado gives them both a pardon, saying, quote, I think it's all time for us to move on.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Fucking yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Idiot. So then it just, like, ends, I guess. And they're still, like, inventing. They force their kids to be in a heavy metal band called the Heaney Boys.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

Ridiculous.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God, girl. We did balloon. What's it called?

[Patrick Hines]

Trainwreck. Balloon Boy. Okay, I maintain it was all fake. I don't know. I'm sure you will tell me, dear listener, if I was wrong about it or if I'm totally off base. But I really. I couldn't wait. I was waiting for them.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All I want is a strong perspective. I don't care what it is.

[Patrick Hines]

I was waiting for them to be like. Like, taking the mask off, like, nope, never happened.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Hey, girl. This isn't how we usually end an episode.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well, something happened. We did a goo.

[Julia Betzvolli]

We googed.

[Patrick Hines]

So, because I was like, I wanted to. We wanted to see something about where they are now if they're still, like, doomsday preppers. Yeah. So that guy who called it the Jiffy Pop thing, the guy who wrote.

[Julia Betzvolli]

For that news outlet I'd never heard of.

[Patrick Hines]

Ye. Yeah. So Robert Sanchez, that journalist who was always pretty skeptical the whole time, and he. Whatever. There's an article from 2019 that he wrote that was updated in 2024, but he has all of this proof that the wife lied and, like, admitted that it was all fake.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I'm so confused by this because the documentary came out after this article was published. Significantly after. Let's just tell them, like, the major revelation in the article, and then we can talk about why this wasn't included in the documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

So the Arthur was given access to all of these discovery files from the case and their handwritten notes from Mayumi explaining the entire thing.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And he was given access to these files with Mayumi's blessing. So he said, I've been in touch with your lawyer. He says he will give me all the documents related to your case if you allow it. Mayumi says yes. There is a series of handwritten notes by Mayumi in which she outlines the plan to fake Falcon being taken away in the balloon.

[Patrick Hines]

Because, like, before in 2008, they filmed their wife swap episodes. Right? And so, like, because it says that she admitted that the balloon was a setup. She explained that she and her husband wanted attention for a, quote, science based reality show. They pitch with Producers who filmed the 2008 appearances on wife Swap.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And just to be clear, she's writing this just for the eyes of her attorney only. She's like telling him, but then all these years later said that this journalist could have this.

[Patrick Hines]

And then. But she said, like in the Wife Swap producer conversations, a runaway balloon with a kid inside could be television catnip. So then in April 2009, right before this, the family signed an option with the Wife Swap producers to pitch a series about outrageous homemade science experiments and the equally outrageous family them that created them. And a balloon made in the shape of a flying saucer was one of the ideas.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Now to be very clear, the plan was never for Falcon to actually be in the balloon. The plan was for the family to think that Falcon was in the balloon, but he was gonna go hide in the basement. What went wrong on the day of the launch was Falcon went and hid somewhere else. And so the family actually believed that Falcon was actually in the balloon. So their feelings of like, oh my God, oh my God, we were going to fake this thing, hide him in the basement, but he fucked it up and actually got into the balloon because he's not in the hiding place we told him to go and he's not coming out while we're screaming. His name is apparently real.

[Patrick Hines]

So the cuz the plan was like, ah, the local paper would pick it up and then producers will go crazy for it. And then as we kind of said, like, it definitely all got away from them.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

But where it got away from them was apparently that he didn't hide in the, in the correct hiding spot.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And then. But also heard them screaming for him and didn't come out.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm sorry, I don't even believe that part. Because when they say when this journalist confronted Richard, the husband. Yeah, because he's like, I didn't know anything. We didn't know anything. And then this journalist is like, girl, I have your wife's handwritten notes to her attorney.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And it says Richard reacted angrily towards his wife, during which his wife then admitted she was lying the whole time.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Well, what happens is the journalist calls Richard and says, I have this evidence. And Richard says, will you send it to me? And the journalist sends it to him. He sends him all the handwritten notes. And Richard's like, I'll call you tomorrow. Richard does not call. He calls the next day back with a new story. So now they're claiming, claiming that Mayumi wrote all of those notes to her lawyer to give cover so she wouldn't Be deported.

[Patrick Hines]

It doesn't make any sense.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Right. Like, Mayumi is basically saying, this was the story that we agreed to admit to so that we could take the plea and I wouldn't get deported and I could stay with my kids. Now Richard is on the phone screaming at his wife. But, like, the reporter's like, this is all an act.

[Patrick Hines]

Doesn't that tell you about the dynamic about him screaming at her? Doesn't the police footage make sense now?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Even that was fake. In the end of the news article, the reporter is like, basically, they got caught because Mayumi forgot she wrote these notes to her attorney. She let me read them. And then Richard and Mayumi had to concoct this new story, that she only wrote it to the attorney so she could get a plea and stay in the country. So, like, he got him. But my question beyond all of that, why is none of this in the documentary? He's in the documentary. Why isn't this in the documentary?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. I think it's ridiculous that it's not. I think it's. I think it's wrong that it's not. It's like another issue I have with another fucking Netflix documentary. Leaving information out.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Because my thing is, like, when you and I were first talking today, and you're like, it's definitely a hoax. And I was like, no, it definitely. I was so shocked that we were on this show.

[Patrick Hines]

Mike was like, what happened? I was like, patrick just sent me this text. I was like, I think he's fucking with me. No, I couldn't believe.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And, like, I thought it was unambiguous that. That it was not a hoax in the end.

[Patrick Hines]

But my text to you, I was like, wait, I thought it was so obviously a hoax. And, like, they were just showing us how clearly a hoax it was. And they could have shown us more clearly if they could have given it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Given us the definitive. This was a hoax. Now, the only thing maybe is that journalistically, he couldn't share this Netflix, but he. He wrote about it. He could tell us about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it's weird. It's very weird. But I also think it's really shitty that this Richard guy, his default is like, oh, I'll just scream at you.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

If he's using. Screaming at his wife on camera, how. What is he doing behind the scenes? I'm not assuming there's. But I'm just like, he's an aggressive, angry guy. This woman is being yelled at constantly, whether she's right or wrong, apparently, which.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Is why I think she's capitulating to the cops, but I guess they did it, so.

[Patrick Hines]

Fuck me, they did it, man. Yeah, they did it.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All right, fam. Thanks for hanging out with us. We're not going to do a big outro today because it's going to be long enough.

[Patrick Hines]

We love you.

[Julia Betzvolli]

So long. These episodes.

[Patrick Hines]

I hope you're loving them. They are getting longer and longer.

[Julia Betzvolli]

I love it. I know. We have lots of fun. Did you have fun today?

[Patrick Hines]

I had fun today. Did you have fun today?

[Julia Betzvolli]

I had so much fun. This is so wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, good. Oh, you want to know what we're doing next?

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, yeah. What are we doing?

[Patrick Hines]

We're doing Untold the fall of Brett Favre.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, it's a sports.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And this chump.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Oh, my God, this guy sucks. I love it when we do a sports guy. All right, bye, Favre.

[Patrick Hines]

Hey. Bye, Favre.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Bye. Have a great day. Everybody but Brett Favre.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone but Brett Favre. And fucking Richard.

[Julia Betzvolli]

And Richard's having a terrible day.

[Patrick Hines]

That's your real name.

[Julia Betzvolli]

All right, bye.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye, everybody.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Wish they could be an NFL quarterback. You get all the notoriety, you know, you get paid all the money. Brett Favre was a cult like, iconic figure.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

People say he was a football God.

[Julia Betzvolli]

There are a lot of reasons why you might question Brett Favre's inner goodness.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Allegations that he sent lewd texts and photos to a New York Jet employee.

[Patrick Hines]

Brett Favre ultimately destroyed my life.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

In the life of Brett Favre, not.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Everything is what it seems. He starts to go through life thinking.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

I can do whatever I want. At what level does that stop?

[Patrick Hines]

I was at a game, and someone.

[Julia Betzvolli]

Said, Brett Favre wanted my phone number.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

And I just kept saying no.

[Patrick Hines]

I started getting text messages, and then I said, I started getting voicemails when I was like, oh, I'm in serious trouble here.

[Interviewees / Documentary Subjects]

Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that he got caught up in a federal welfare misappropriation scandal.

[Julia Betzvolli]

You take money intended for the poorest. I don't know how he sleeps at night. People don't want most of that stuff to come out. People want their heroes.

[Patrick Hines]

When someone. Someone shows you who they are, believe them.