464: Blood and Myth

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed

Episode 464: Blood and Myth

October 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Patrick Hinds and Jillian Pensavalle recap and discuss the Hulu documentary "Blood and Myth", diving into an extraordinary true crime story set in northern Alaska. The documentary centers around Teddy Kyle Smith, an Inuit man at the heart of a tragic shooting, and explores deeper themes of Indigenous folklore, cultural loss, mental health, and the power of storytelling. Using their signature mix of humor, heart, and curiosity, the hosts navigate the documentary's intertwining of myth, crime, and community, while honoring the gravity of the narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to "Blood and Myth" and the Storyteller (James)

• [01:36] Jillian introduces Blood and Myth as a new Hulu documentary she's "obsessed with", emphasizing its personal, cultural focus and the unique perspective of its narrator, James.
• Patrick praises Jillian for intentionally curating diverse stories:

  "You always find really interesting stories, stories that really need to be told that I think a lot of other podcasts wouldn't cover." (Patrick, [04:01])

2. Setting: The Edge of The World

• The story unfolds in Kotzebue, Alaska and smaller villages nearby – populations in the hundreds – highlighting isolation and the close-knit nature of these communities ([09:08]).
• James shares personal anecdotes about growing up Inuit, the impact of colonization, and how quickly Alaska's Indigenous populations were thrust into American mainstream in 1959.

• "This land is an extreme place that's barely America. It just doesn't care if you live or die." (James, as quoted by Patrick, [03:04])

3. Cultural Representation and Colonization

• The hosts discuss the profound effects of colonization on the Inuit, including forced assimilation, cultural erasure, and damaging stereotypes in media.
• James' work in film is discussed, including his mixed feelings about participating in commercials that played on stereotypes ([12:05]).
• On the 2011 film On the Ice, which marked a milestone for Indigenous representation:

  "I felt like it was the start of us being able to tell our own stories and not have other people tell our stories." (James, [14:47])

4. The Crime: Teddy Kyle Smith’s Downfall

• Teddy, once a Marine and actor in On the Ice, was admired for his positive impact in the community and efforts to revitalize traditional skills ([16:49]).
• After his mother’s (Dolly Smith) sudden death (ruled undetermined), Teddy flees and eventually shoots two brothers, Paul and Charles Buckle—both miraculously survive.
• The narrative explores Teddy’s mental state, with hints at drinking, community gossip about "boasting" (anga), and potential supernatural influences "[32:06]," culminating in his erratic behavior.

5. Myth meets Reality: The Inukins

• At the core of the documentary—and the case—are the Inukins (or Inukans): mythical "little people" central to Inuit folklore, believed by many villagers to dwell in the Alaskan wilderness.
• Teddy claims encounters with Inukins led to his breakdown. James finds resonance:

  “When you grow up constantly seeing yourself as a caricature, it messes with your... Like, when you think, like, wait, that’s not who we are, but that’s how the world sees us. Like, is that who we are? It kind of forces you to like gaslight yourself." (James, via Patrick, [15:11])

• The cultural taboo of discussing the Inukins is repeatedly highlighted ([23:28], [40:28]).

6. Folklore, Evidence, and Skepticism

• The hosts explore community beliefs—nearly everyone interviewed, from elders to law enforcement, acknowledges either first-hand or inherited stories of the Inukins ([47:03]).
• James references his great-grandfather—one of the last great Inuit storytellers—whose collected tales include firsthand accounts of the Inukins ([21:09], [22:07]).
• Scientific intrigue is added via the Ambler Road mining project: archaeologists, tribal liaisons, and the discovery of mysterious "little people homes" ([66:18]–[67:33]).

  “Homes. Like someone's house. Like not people houses. Not in homes. Yep.” (Mary Black, tribal liaison, [67:15])

7. The Manhunt and Aftermath

• Teddy, after days in the wilderness, survives a grueling journey—without adequate supplies, through "impossible" conditions—prompting even law enforcement to wonder if he had supernatural help ([53:00]).

• He is ultimately captured, and at trial, continues to insist on his experience with the Inukins.

• Cultural disconnect is apparent:

  “Was Teddy really being tried by a jury of his peers, or is it a bunch of white people who don’t know anything about the folklore and his culture...?" (Patrick, [62:42])

• Teddy is sentenced to 99 years for attempted murder, with the jury rejecting supernatural explanations.

8. Community, Identity, and Healing

• James’ personal journey in making the documentary mirrors the story’s themes: a struggle with drinking, identity, and self-erasure, paralleling Teddy’s arc.
• In a moving segment, James reaches out to Teddy, sending a letter and his great-grandfather’s book; Teddy eventually calls back ([73:07]).

9. Redemption, Storytelling, and Legacy

• Teddy, in conversation, insists on his innocence in his mother’s death and expresses regret for the shooting.

• Both he and James reflect on the warnings of the “old ways,” and the urgent need to maintain culture against erasure ([77:31]).

  “We’re going to hold on to our traditions, our culture, our language, our dances, our stories in order to give future generations a sense of identity and not be told who you are.” (James, [79:42])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Alaska Wilderness:

  “This land is an extreme place that’s barely America. It just doesn’t care if you live or die.” – James ([03:04])

• On Storytelling and Representation:

  “I felt like it was the start of us being able to tell our own stories and not have other people tell our stories.” – James ([14:47])

• On Internalized Stereotypes:

  “It kind of forces you to like gaslight yourself.” – James ([15:11])

• On Teddy’s Possession Experience:

  “If I followed them, I’d never come back.” – Teddy ([50:35])

• On Community Skepticism:

  "I've had experiences...I was able to stop it. Some people don't have the control to stop it." – Ross, retired magistrate ([52:01])

• On Judicial Disconnect:

  “Was Teddy really being tried of a jury of his peers, or is it a bunch of white people who don’t know anything about the folklore and his culture...?” – Patrick ([62:42])

• On Cultural Survival:

  “We’re going to hold on to our traditions, our culture, our language, our dances, our stories in order to give future generations a sense of identity and not be told who you are.” – James ([79:42])

• On the Centrality of the Inukin Myth:

  "Homes. Like someone's house. Like not people houses. Not in homes. Yep." – Mary Black ([67:15])

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Timeline & Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:36] – Introduction to "Blood and Myth"
• [03:04] – James' personal and cultural perspective as narrator
• [09:08] – Life in Kotzebue, history of colonization
• [12:05] – James' film/TV work and representation issues
• [14:47] – On the Ice and Indigenous storytelling
• [16:49] – Teddy’s community work and downfall
• [21:09] – The importance of the storyteller ("Eskimo Storyteller")
• [22:07] – First detailed Inukin (little people) story
• [32:06] – "Anga"—the word for boasting/showing off in Inuit culture
• [34:06] – The night of Dolly Smith’s death and Teddy's disappearance
• [36:26] – The chaotic aftermath and lack of law enforcement
• [39:11] – The arsenal found in Teddy's home, manhunt logistics
• [47:03] – Law enforcement and elders on the Inukin myth
• [50:35] – Teddy’s supernatural experience, pivotal moment
• [62:42] – Teddy’s trial: culture clash, ACLU involvement
• [66:18]-[67:33] – Archaeological discoveries supporting "little people" lore
• [73:07] – James’ letter to Teddy, Teddy’s call, James’ sobriety turning point
• [77:31] – Teddy and James reflect on cultural survival
• [79:42] – The meaning and future of storytelling

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Tone & Flow

The tone alternates between reverent, playful, and reflective, staying true to the hosts’ trademark blend of humor and empathy. Jillian and Patrick are respectful of the documentary’s subject, balancing lightness (their rapport, pop culture asides) with deep dives into representation, trauma, myth, and what real justice would look like in marginalized communities.

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Final Reflections

• Both hosts agree that—regardless of what literally happened—Blood and Myth succeeds in sparking a necessary conversation about Indigenous culture, myth versus mental health, the danger of erasure, and the power of reclaiming narrative.
• The episode ends with both hosts expressing admiration for James and a call to listeners to engage with and share stories from marginalized communities.

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For Listeners (Who Haven’t Watched the Documentary)

This episode of True Crime Obsessed distills a complex story where fact, culture, and myth intermingle, exploring not only a true crime but a reckoning with what it means to be from a place, to be seen or unseen, and who gets to tell the story. Listeners will come away with insight into the unique challenges faced by Alaska’s Native communities, the power of folklore (and the ongoing fight to preserve it), and the complicated intersections of justice, identity, and grief.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

I think that's where we are.

[B]

Fantastic. Here we are.

[A]

Ye. Hi, Jillian Bethel Valley.

[B]

Hello, Patrick Hines.

[A]

Jillian, tell them the things that we have to tell them about.

[B]

I will do that post haste. I will do that promptly. Oh, we have a Facebook page, like a Facebook group with like 60,000 people in it that's really fun. And we also have a Patreon where we have a whole like, shit ton of stuff.

[A]

Yeah. Join the Facebook group. It's the true crime obsessed podcast discussion group. The Patreon is amazing, but only if you like amazing bonus content. And drag bingo.

[B]

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[C]

Murder.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah, everyone's invited.

[B]

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[A]

What are we talking today, girl?

[B]

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so this is a documentary called Blood and Myth. It's on Hulu. It's new. I'm kind of obsessed with it.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The story takes place at the edge of the world, Northern Alaska. Teddy Kyle Smith. To us natives, it didn't make any sense.

[B]

Suspect in a shooting of two brothers has been identified as a Kyana actor who went missing earlier this month after the death of his mother.

[C]

Mother's dead. He's shot. Then no one knows why. I had no idea how deep this story would go. I had no idea how far this would take me. I didn't want to shoot him. I had to go along with what they wanted me to do. Wild people out there. Inukims. Yeah, Inukons, the mythical beings that we were all told about by elders. It just stopped me in my. My tracks. Gave me the shivers right at the top.

[A]

I love this guy, our main narrator, guy. Like, he's the guy who discovered this story, and his name is James, and he. I don't know. I just love. I love the way that he tells the stories. I love how personal this is. And he says at the beginning, this is the story that takes place at the edge of the world, Northern Alaska. This land is an extreme place that's barely America. It just doesn't care if you live or die.

[C]

It's called the Last Frontier. But to us natives, it's not a frontier, it's home. But we've lived on this land for over 10,000 years, so we're still very connected to the land, still very connected.

[A]

To our stories to keep us from going off, from getting lost.

[B]

Yeah, I love. I was just like, oh, I'm here. I've.

[A]

Let's go.

[B]

Like, this is so personal to him. So he's telling us the story.

[A]

Can we stop for one second? Because I wanted to say something to you. I meant to make a note about this famous. I don't think you know how hard Jillian works on our schedule on our calendar, and I wanted to say something to you about this, because she works so hard to balance our storytelling so that we have. We're telling all kinds of stories, especially stories of, like, minority communities. It is very, very difficult, this task, and you do it so well. Thank you. And you always find really interesting stories, stories that really need to be told that I think a lot of other podcasts wouldn't cover. And I think this falls under it. And this is. So what? Not only do you find them, but you find the really good one. And I just wanted to say thank you as your partner. Oh, God.

[B]

Thank you for the hard work.

[A]

And I wanted you to know that I see it, and I am very grateful for it.

[B]

Thank you so much. It is super important to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So thank you for saying that, and I appreciate it. And it's, like, never going to stop. That's always at the forefront of what, like. So when I see this, my job is super weird, because a lot of it is, like, I have to have every app, I have to have every alert, every reminder, every Google thing. So when this came up, like, coming soon, I was like, oh, I'm. I'm setting a reminder. And then when it, I was like, this needs to be bumped. Like, we were bumping.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, some other train wreck up. Like, we'll get to the mayor of Mayhem next week. Like, this needs to be told first.

[A]

And, like, we've covered a lot of documentaries that we've had different opinions on, but some that we've agreed that, like, are just not good. And it's important to point out that, like, this is really good. Not only is this a story that needs to be told, it's about preserving culture. It's about understanding story and how you relate to other people's stories and what you can learn from other people, which I. I'm really trying to zoom in on what we can learn from these documentaries. And anyway, this is just a very well done one.

[B]

I loved it. I loved it. Loved it. Because it's like, the whole point of this documentary is like, what? How do I say this in a way that makes sense? Because James is going to say it about a million times. He is telling the story of his people, and we need more of that.

[A]

That's 100. But I got to tell you, Hulu, Netflix, HBO, that starts at the top. That, like, you all are the people who are funding these projects and making them happen and seeing the importance in them. So you need to do that, too. And we need people from these communities in those positions of power to make these things happen.

[B]

And we'll. You'll hear about that a lot.

[A]

I'll put our soapboxes away, and then we'll get back to the episode.

[B]

Yeah, I need help getting down. So James is telling us a story about a man named Teddy Kyle Smith. He shot two people. They survived, but this is the story of how and why he did it. But it's also a story about what James is calling mythical beings.

[A]

Yeah. But first we're going to deal with the fact that James is a drummer. And I said, I'm going to let him off the hook. Now, I love drummers. I love a drummer. But he's making a joke as he's breaking out his drum set.

[C]

Neighbors love drummers. How stoked would you be if I move next door?

[A]

As a person who has been trauma, traumatized by my shitty neighbors, playing music so loud you can't even think in your own apartment over the years, I'm saying, James, no.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I know they sell those pads that you can put on your snare drum so the neighbors don't have to hear it.

[B]

How stoked would you be if I moved in next door and I was like, if you're asking me, pretty stoked.

[A]

Yeah, I would agree. But this would be the one thing I wouldn't love about him as a neighbor. Yeah, I'm sorry, drummers, but you gotta take care of your neighbors.

[B]

I know what I mean. I know as the neighbor. It's, it's, it sucks, perhaps, but like, as someone who is occasionally on, like, drum talk, I love drummers. I love watching them drum. I love, like having a pop song play and then the drummer is like, this is what it could be. I love drums.

[A]

But you know what I like more? Going to sleep. I know my kids sleeping through the night. You know what I mean?

[B]

Well, I'll go over and talk to James and then you get some sleep. I'll be like, james, put the sticks away for a second and then we'll chat.

[A]

And then I want to come over for the cocktails and the hang with James. I. I'm giving this guy.

[B]

James doesn't have cocktails. We're just gonna talk and have some tea. Yeah, Wonderful spill. Tea. Let's do it.

[A]

I'm down for the tea. James, I love you, but drum quietly.

[B]

But he says he was like, he loves playing the drums. The whole world goes away. It's a way for him to escape. And James rules.

[A]

There is something about drumming that is very physical. You know what I mean? It is like a workout. Yeah.

[B]

I love drummers. I know I can see, girl I love drummers. Travel down the road Back again, girl.

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[A]

So James was born and raised in Katubu, Alaska. He says it's the corner of the world, the edge, the north. And he describes the world forever. Knew his people as the Eskimos.

[B]

Yeah. And also the population is 2,979. We're talking about a very small.

[A]

And we're going to even smaller places than that.

[B]

Right. And so that word is not, to quote Walter Sopcich, the preferred nomenclature. They are Alaskan Inuit. They call themselves Inu Back. Like this community that James is talking about. Of course there are all factions of Inuit and indigenous people, but James is talking about the Inupac people.

[A]

But he's also talking about that, like growing up when he would meet people who weren't from where he was from.

[C]

I think the rest of the world views my people as almost mythical creatures. You know, I'd say, where they, where are you from? I say Alaska. And they'd be like, well. And they was like, what? And I say, I'm in. And they'd look at you like you were a leprechaun or a unicorn or something. And they'd be like, wow, I studied about you and social studies. I learned about your people. Igloos. Right.

[A]

Even if you're doing that as a way to express interest, it is so othering to people.

[B]

I know. And he's like, yeah. People would say like, oh, I studied you in social studies, the igloos. Right. It's like, oh, woof.

[A]

I can understand where people are in some cases trying to say, I am interested for sure. I've learned. But like, we gotta do better.

[B]

Oh my God. God. You know, a million years ago that probably would have been me. Maybe in a way where it's like, I think your culture is fascinating and really cool, and I want to know more about it. But I could totally see.

[A]

That's how you say it, though.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

That's how you say it.

[B]

Yeah, I could totally see how that. That enthusiasm about a culture that is fascinating could totally.

[A]

You're so weird and interesting, man.

[B]

Yeah, no, we're, you know, not. No, no, no. And also, I just want to say, in my Googling, I've heard some variations on how Inupac is pronounced, but for the sake of this coverage, I think the right thing to do is follow James this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But when I did my, like, YouTube pronunciation, there are little differences, but I'm going to say, say how James.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And James now, I thought this was really interesting. He. He tells us, like, sort of the history of his people. He says, my people were the last to have contact with the West. It was like we went through a time machine. He says we were on the twilight of the Stone Age, essentially. Like, when Alaska became A State in 1959, there was, like, major colonization that happened. And, you know, he says, like, life changed big times. He says this was, like the space age, and they were forced to assimilate American culture in 1959. And, like, that wasn't that long ago.

[B]

No, it really wasn't.

[A]

You know.

[B]

And so he tells us that his town got a reputation for being what he calls a brawling town. And he's like, you know, a lot of Inupac villages are. And he says he saw a lot of disarray and he thought music was gonna get him out of there.

[C]

I would play anybody who called for a drummer. I'm like a hired gun. Soldier of fortune. I like to say I wasn't living high on the hog, but I didn't want to work in the mine. I didn't want to work on the slope in the oil fields. Could have made a shit ton of money. I prioritized having fun.

[B]

He prioritized having fun because life was hard.

[A]

You know what I mean? So, like, he found his fun where he could, and, like, drumming became a religion to him out of necessity, you know, he needed an outlet for all of, like, all of the things that he was feeling growing up.

[B]

And he's a creative dude, and he's a storyteller. So, like, while he was drumming and being a musician and telling stories and, like, being creative in that way, he also did freelance film production. And he said, I just want to be around the action. I took every gig I could get, even if it was like super cheesy and offensive and pretty racist against his own people.

[A]

And we see some of the commercials he worked on. Like on one of them, there's literally a native man being spit roasted. Laughing.

[B]

The Luden's commercial, cough drops. Like, wait. One of my favorite candies as a child.

[A]

I know, me too.

[B]

The cherry Ludens.

[A]

I know we can't have anything nice at 2 ludens.

[B]

What the fuck? I was like, what is this?

[A]

Ludens are delicious. They're like candy, but they are candy.

[B]

You know what's also candy? I don't know if this exists anymore. Dyma Tap.

[A]

Really?

[B]

I usually.

[A]

The look in your. The look of shame in your eye. Shame.

[B]

No shame at all really. I remember, I don't know if they. They probably changed the formula so that it doesn't taste so delicious. Usually I don't reach for a grape flavored thing. Yeah, the grape diamond. If you know, you know my diamond girlies. I'd be like, oh no. So this life, being in film production and being a drummer, I felt kind.

[C]

Of lost at that time. Starting to party more, drink more. I felt like a ship without a rudder. I wasn't really sure who I was.

[B]

He didn't know who he was. And again, like, all this colonization. He was like, what am I doing? I'm on film sets where they're like making fun of my people. Like, what is going on? So this is when James learns about a guy named Teddy Michael Smith. He's a former marine who was arrested for and charged with attempted murder. He shot two men. They were brothers, Paul and Charles buckle. And Teddy's 74 year old. And then Teddy goes missing and then he shot these two guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And James is gonna try to get to the bottom of this because he's like, this case just sounds weird. And as James is like researching this, the minute he sees Teddy's face, he's like, oh my God, that's the guy from on the ice.

[A]

And I just want to say here, as a person who gets obsessed with stories, I totally understood James. He was like. This story came up on his social media feed. It was a fascinating and crazy story about somebody that like, is from his community. And then like. And this happens when you're researching stor like you. He realizes this man was an actor in a really big movie that was like maybe poised to like change the way these kinds of stories were being told. And this movie also meant a lot to James. So it's like layers on layers on layers of him Becoming fascinated with this guy.

[B]

Yeah. So on the Ice is a movie from 2011, and it really meant a lot to James because he's like, I.

[C]

Felt like it was the start of something. I felt like it was the start of us being able to tell our own stories and not have other people tell our stories.

[B]

Because it wasn't like the cough drop commercial exactly. You know, like, it really showed who these people are. It was made by the community. It was a turning point.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, once again, it showed James, like, you could be an actor in a movie and be of the people that the movie is telling it about without being a stereotype.

[B]

And James says something that is like, this is what I really. I really, really love this documentary. Like, James, if you want to sit down for an interview, we'd love to have you. But he says he was like, when you grow up constantly seeing yourself as a caricature, it messes with your. Like, when you think, like, wait, that's not who we are, but that's how the world sees us. Like, is that who we are? It kind of forces you to, like, gaslight yourself. But he's like, I know that's not who I am. It just does not put you in a good headspace.

[A]

I mean, it's not nearly the same kind of marginalization, but that's the gay thing. You know what I mean? Like, you very rarely get to see yourself on film. I mean, it happens. To this day, all the. I'll be watching a movie that I love with a gay character who's fully formed, dies. The gay character is always, always getting murdered. Always. Even now, to this day, it's like, the only way in mainstream film and television we can. Gay characters. It's crazy.

[B]

Oh, my God. But, like, there's this guy Teddy on the red carpet at Sundance talking about representation and saying everything that James is telling us now, like, the importance of this movie, why he did it. And so James is like, oh, my God, Teddy, this guy, he did it. He got out. Because for James, he was like, it was all about getting out. And he saw Teddy, and he's like, he's living my dream. He's really doing it. He was about to get his big break with this movie. What the hell happened?

[A]

Yeah, it makes like. Because, remember, James is obsessed with Teddy's story, so it makes this downfall even.

[B]

More of a downfall himself in Teddy and, like, what his future could have been. So how did this happen?

[A]

How did this happen? So James starts to text people who he thinks might know Teddy and He learns, like, through the responses he's getting. Teddy was not just a great actor. He was like a really great person doing great things, like really walking the walk, giving back to the community.

[C]

I learned that he volunteered at the school and taught kids traditional any back skills. He volunteered at the elders camp. Trapped wolverines in the middle of winter. He loved the Inupac way of life.

[A]

He loved the Inupac way of life. He was just, like, doing good work in the community.

[B]

Yeah. Cause we learn about this all the time. Like, Connie Walker talks about this all the time too. Like, just the colonization of it. Like the residential schools. Like, so, like, the culture is being ripped away from these people by white people. So Teddy was one of those people who's like, making sure the language stays alive. Like, there are so many indigenous people who do speak the language because it just got lost in the colonization and, like, the shitty white people of it all. And Teddy's, like, really trying to keep it alive.

[A]

And it's just like, then how did it all fall apart? And so James learns that when Teddy was arrested, he not only is talking to the troopers about, like, the. The shootings that he was arrested for, but he's talking about other things that had happened to him while he was out in the wilderness after he, like, ran away.

[B]

He's very chatty. Like, he's. He's got stuff to say and immediate. And it's not in the way where it's like some asshol running his mouth in the back seat.

[C]

No.

[B]

Like, this guy is trying to talk about experiences that he had, and they're wild.

[A]

And so James does a records request for this guy. He gets the trooper interviews the courtroom audio. And the very first thing Teddy started talking about was what he saw out there in the mountains. And they say he drops a bombshell. And so we hear some of Teddy's.

[C]

Audio, and he says, I mean, I actually saw Indians. Yeah, nice to hear. They used to throw pebbles at my cabin or whistle. And I finally got to see him.

[B]

The trooper's like, are you. Do you mean the Inukins? Like, the trooper knows. And Teddy goes, yeah. And he says, I used to hear them. And they threw pebbles at my cabin. Or they'd whistle. And I finally got to see them. And he describes them with, you know, a big head and broad shoulders. And James, when James hears this. This, he goes, everything stopped. His mouth went dry. He started tasting pennies. And I'm like, my experience, that penny thing is pure adrenaline. That is fight or flight. That is like, that is A really? If you've ever had that experience of everything stopping and your mouth goes dry and you have a mouthful of pennies, something's like brewing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a, it's something to not ignore.

[A]

And listeners, if you're lost, like, what are the indicates we're going to get there? This is like the part of the big myth and the legend of, of like this area of Alaska. So stay with us. We'll get there in a second.

[B]

Again, travel down the road. Back again, girl.

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[B]

James shows us a book and it was his great grandfather's and the title of the book, because this book was Originally published in 1975 and not written.

[A]

By his grandfather, by the way. It was written by anthropologists who were taking the stories of the grandfather.

[B]

Right. So this was published in 1975, which is why James says the title of it. But it's called the Eskimo Storyteller. It's a very, very famous book. So it's a collection of a 188 folk tales collected in 1965. And James's great grandfather was one of the last great Inupac storytellers.

[A]

What James tells us, and I didn't really catch this until the second time I watched it, the Storyteller is not just a nice thing to call the old man with stories. This was like an exalted position within the community. The storyteller of the community would they say was much like the chief or a shaman, like a very well respected position.

[B]

Yeah. And like again, it's about keeping this alive because constantly, everywhere they turn around, they're like being made fun of on a cough drop or like their culture is being ripped from them. So that's why these storytellers are so important and they're held in such high regard because this can get lost so easily, of course. So this book contains his great grandfather's words as recorded by the anthropologist. And the very first story is about.

[A]

Inukans and it's about his grandfather encountering the Inukins. And they. The story details his experience walking along the high ground of the creek. He comes to a point where he saw two men around the next turn.

[C]

And he said suddenly he pretend to discover them and started to walk towards the rock. The two dwarfs stood up and started talking to him. The little men are called.

[B]

What he describes is that like a long time ago, everyone lived side by side. But then blood was spilled and the Inukins left. And then ever since then, it's only. It's always like kind of like whispers in the wind about them. And they live nomadically and they live in places humans don't go. They don't want to be seen, they don't want to be part of the community that James is in. They're very short, they're very strong. They speak an old form of Inupac. They have their own language as well. They whistle. So there's a lot of folklore and stories. I mean like, I don't even know if I want to say folklore, because there are people who to this day believe like this is 100% true. Which I guess folklore can be.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. To the point that the People within the community do not even speak about them. Like, the whole. They're taught not to talk about them. If you see them, you don't talk to them. You don't look at them. Like you respect, respectfully, leave them alone and leave them out of your mouth.

[B]

And some people say that they're supernatural beings. Some people say that they have shamanic powers. Or like, people are saying, like, I've witnessed their superhuman strength. Like, I've seen it. I've seen things that I can't explain, or I've come across things in. In the woods that. That cannot be explained.

[A]

And they tell us that the anthropologists who are taking the story in his great grandfather's book make a note in the footnotes at the end, and it says, dwarfs are little people still populate the Eskimo territory, and occasionally their footprints are seen along the riverbank. So even the anthropologists who are taking these stories are taking it seriously, as though these people are real and really live out there in the wilderness, because.

[B]

So many people are telling them, like, this is my culture. This is my story. So what James is saying is that if Teddy really encountered inins, it would really, truly 100% validate all these stories, especially James's great grandfather stories. So, like, the connection just keeps getting deeper for James. So Teddy is in a maximum security prison for attempted murder.

[C]

I reached out to his lawyer, asked if I could talk to him. She said no. So I wrote him a letter in jail and never heard anything back. Just kind of ghosted me.

[A]

James also writes a letter to Teddy in prison and never hears anything back.

[B]

James is so connected to Teddy. He says he has more in common with him than he doesn't. And he's like, well, what made Teddy sn on the red carpet at Sundance? Everything was going great. He was a pillar of our community. He was doing great things. He was never violent. He was never someone who'd, like, be on the run.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what changed? Because it's a major shift.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So we go to big Bob, and.

[A]

Well, we learned, like, in this part of Alaska, Facebook is not like a fun social media tool. It's the way people communicate. So James gets on Facebook to sort of track down other people who knew Teddy. And this is where. Where we meet big Bob, who I'm obsessed with. And James wants us to know right.

[C]

From the jump, if you're on his side and he's cool with you, you'd be all right. But if you're on his bad side, it's. I would want to Be on his bad side.

[A]

You do not get on the wrong side of fucking Big Bob. You do not do it.

[B]

Bob and James are old friends. Bob knows Teddy. It's better to be on Bob's good side.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because being on his bad side is, like, really bad.

[A]

I gotta tell you, we meet Bob throughout. He seems kind of like a pussycat. I'm not afraid of Big Bob.

[B]

I would love a hang with Bob and James. They would not have me. Y. I would meet them wherever.

[A]

They wouldn't have you. Of course they would.

[B]

I don't know if they'd be. They'd be like, oh. Because I'd ask a lot of questions. Like, I think I might annoy them, but I think they're super cool. I'd let them call the shots. I would just sit there and sort of absorb their coolness if they'd have me.

[A]

I would kind of like to watch the documentary of you and James and Big Bob just driving around Alaska.

[B]

Like, find a joint with a cool jukebox. And we, like, have. I don't know, have a good time, I think. But I think you.

[A]

I think you're selling yourself short. That pink hair. You're a lot of fun. People would be into hanging out with you.

[B]

I got.

[A]

We got a couple hundred thousand listening right. Right now that would like their turn.

[B]

In fact, I got a really funny joke that Mike and I have. One of my favorite bars in LA is Rainbow.

[A]

Sounds gay. I'm in.

[B]

It's. I know that's a keychain that we have too, but it's not. It's like a super. It's like the Hollywood vampires where they started. Mickey Dolan's and, like, it's a huge. Ozzy Osborne is a huge, huge, huge rock and roll bar. It's right on the strip. It's right near Whiskey Go.

[A]

Go.

[B]

It's like. It's one of my favorite bars. I fudgeing. Love it. But it depends on when you go. It could be kind of like, oh, I don't fit in here. Like, I'm definitely not cool enough. I'm not, like, rock and roll enough. But Mike and I will always go. It'll always be at the first drink. Maybe our first and last drink. But we'll always stop at Rainbow.

[A]

It's called. And where is it?

[B]

It's right on the strip. Okay, West Hollywood.

[A]

I'm going next time.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

There's so many K bars in West Hollywood, though. It's hard to get to the straight places.

[B]

It's. If you Ask me like, history. And look it up if you don't know anything about it. But anyway, anyway, anyway. So. But we walked in one day and the guy who, like, checked our IDs, he just went, hey, cool hair. Like, thanks. Somebody was like, an old. Like, this guy's been around the bl. Yeah, he's. He's partied with everyone. And it was a cool hair.

[C]

Cool.

[B]

I was like, thanks, man.

[A]

Yeah, you kind of can't get a better job than the doorman at a cool old school West Hollywood bar, you.

[B]

Know, like, like legendary way they tell us about Kyana. And so this is an inupac village outside this, like, main community that we're talking about. The population is 350 people.

[A]

It's ridiculous. Like, that's the population of this booth.

[B]

Everyone knows everything about everyone. They say it's like living in a fishbowl. That's like, come on. 350 people. My God.

[A]

Can I just tell you, when James shows up at Big Bob's house, they greet each other in the boyish way possible. They don't hug.

[C]

Hey, hey, fucker.

[A]

They fist bump and go, what's up, fucker?

[B]

What's up, fucker? Here's the thing about Bob, though, which I love. This is who you get in touch with when you need to get in touch with other people. And I'm like, all right, Bob, dazzle me if you're the guy. Because everyone has a guy. Bob's the guy. Like, let's go. And so then suddenly they're just like, again. I love this. They're just picking up where they left off.

[C]

They're like, I heard Mar Mario Joe is cooking again. I fucking met him and he was karate chopping rocks in half working at Little Louie's.

[A]

Oh, yeah?

[C]

Yeah. So Pizza House Mario Joe, that from back in the day, he's back in cots, huh? Back in cots.

[B]

Well, I'm in Pizza House. Mario Joe, you would fit right in.

[A]

Come on. I love this. They would love you.

[B]

I love this. Travel down the road back again, fam.

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[A]

We're good at that, girl. Function is back. Look, I chose Function because it's the only health platform that gives me data most people never get. And this is my favorite part and the insights to start doing something about it.

[B]

Girl, can we have a conversation about the liver?

[A]

Yeah, please.

[B]

You know, so like, you know, oh.

[A]

God, today's the day, huh?

[B]

Right? Here it is. It's happening.

[A]

Here we go.

[B]

That's. But you're absolutely right because most people only think about the liver when there's a problem.

[A]

Problem, yes.

[B]

But the liver is central to metabolism and detoxification and nutrient balance. And its workload can really show up in your labs. And look, the holidays are coming up. Everyone's eating and drinking whatever they want, which is great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you gotta check on that liver.

[A]

And so look with function, you can look at and test over a hundred plus biomarkers, including the ones that affect the liver. And if anything is out of whack, it will tell you what you can be doing to fix it. That's the whole point here. You're getting so much more information than when you go to get your physical and you get the annual blood work. This like you're seeing everything they say It's a near 360 degree view to better see what's happening in your body.

[B]

Yeah. And most checkups aren't giving you this full picture. Right. And so like the holidays may come and go, but your liver never stops working for you.

[A]

No, I love Function. I got on it a couple months ago. I check it all the time. I feel like I'm in pretty good shape. And if I'm not, I know they're gonna tell me what to do. So fam learn more and join using.

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[B]

That's right. You gotta own it.

[A]

Do it. Get on that dashboard. It's pretty great.

[B]

Gotta own it. Bob also makes his own whiskey. He makes jugs, which is a fifth of whiskey. He doesn't sell them, he drinks his own. Because we learned that in Kyana, you can only have six jugs at a time, and it's super hard to get booze there. So they're making their own. But here's what we learn. After Teddy did that movie, that big movie on the ice that was about to change everything, yeah, he started partying super hard, according to Bob and, like, his intel. He kind of started big timing everyone. He was, like, walking around with a puffed up chest. Bob's like, he was all high and mighty and shit, acting like he's fucking too good for people. And he was doing great things for the community, but it kind of got to his head.

[C]

The native word for it is anger. You know, you boast, you show off, you think you're too good. Like you.

[A]

You ang.

[C]

Ang. That's what it's called. Fucking anga.

[A]

I just wanna say in defense of Teddy, his whole life was giving back to the community, but also trying to get out of the community. Can the guy have five minutes to figure it out? When you get instant success like that, sometimes you got those giraffe legs, you know, like the baby giraffe. You just gotta, like, be a dick for a minute and then you figure it out.

[B]

And I think Bob was like, yeah, but that time ran out, like it was too much, too soon. And he was kind of being a dick and everyone was, like, happy for him. And then everyone would try to be nice to him and he'd kind of be a dick. Like, I think is, like, not just that he was showing off in big timing, but maybe that was a part of this major shift that James, like, cannot wrap his head around.

[A]

Can we also talk about how the giraffe moms just drop the babies out of their bodies and they fall, like, seven feet to the ground.

[B]

I think elephants do that too.

[A]

I mean, look, I didn't make the rules, but, like, we can't kneel. We can't bend down.

[B]

That makes me want to say, like, Linda Belcher, like, oh, little babies.

[A]

I know that's a rude awakening to life.

[B]

And they're all wet and stuff.

[A]

I know they're covered in, like, the burn earth stuff. They're so cute. And they figure it out pretty fast, but, like, that's. That's not an easy way to be born?

[B]

Yeah. No, it takes human babies. When do babies start walking? Like, at what age or month?

[A]

Two, I think, but maybe not. I don't remember. That's the thing. They always tell you that, like, you think you're never gonna forget every milestone, and you forget them as soon as they happen. Right. So I have no idea. 7, 9 or something like 28. Daisy just started walking last week. We're so proud.

[B]

She's talking yet?

[A]

Not yet.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I literally don't know. Do they talk first? Do they walk first? I think they're doing, like.

[A]

I couldn't tell you.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I. Absolutely. I think they do the ma.

[C]

That.

[A]

At the same time, I don't know. You think I have a.

[B]

Anyway, the point is, animals have to know right away. Animals don't get six years of practice crawling on the carpet.

[A]

My point is just justice for Teddy. Like, I'm sure he would have come back around, but this is where we start to learn the story of what happened with Teddy.

[B]

So Bob sends us to Annie Reed, and she went over to Dolly Smith's place. Now, Dolly Smith is Teddy's mom.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Annie says she goes over to the house. She walks in. Teddy's there. She says he was smiling like a normal person, which is a quote.

[A]

I said the smil. But I'm. But maybe not.

[B]

But I think she's trying to say, like, I walked in and everything was fine.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, everything was fine. It was very clear because James is like, he was smiling. And she goes, yes, Teddy was smiling at me. It was fine.

[A]

And just as a reminder, Annie has come into Dolly's house. Dolly is the mother of Teddy. Teddy's the one standing in the living room smiling.

[B]

And so Dolly Smith, Teddy's mother, is in her bedroom.

[C]

I went into Dolly's room. She was on the floor. So I start feeling for Pops, and I found a fade one, and I kind of panicked because I noticed there was a cord around her neck.

[A]

Annie remembers there being a cord around the neck. The police did not find that.

[B]

Right. So now multiple people from the health clinic come, and they're trying to give her cpr, and it didn't work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when they all left Dolly's room, Teddy bailed. He's in the wind, and nobody knows where he is. So there's this, like, chaos happening. They're trying to save his mother's life. And Teddy, one second was fine and smiling at Annie, and now he's gone.

[A]

Yeah. So they called the vpso, which is a villa public safety officer. Now, importantly, there are no troopers in this village.

[B]

There are no cops. Like, there's nothing. It's just this village public safety officer.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And James says, at the time, they weren't even allowed to carry guns. They had a can of pepper spray and an audio recorder, and that's it.

[A]

I was like, audio recorder? Like, what was the crime that made them be like, you know, what we need forever more is an audio recorder.

[B]

We need a record of. And James is like, let me just. Like James, like, let me jump in. This is a good time to tell you. Alaska is the most heavily armed state in the whole union. Everybody has guns up here.

[A]

And like, to some degree, that makes sense to me as a not gun person. Like, there's bears and hunting, and I kind of understand.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, but we hear the audio of Annie talking to the safety officer, and she says, now, Teddy, since Annie found Dolly dead in the bedroom, Teddy's gone. Suddenly he reappears, and this VPSO officer is trying to talk to him to calm him down. But Teddy is getting more. And Annie comes out. She's trying to talk to him. All of a sudden, Teddy is firing a gun at them.

[B]

We hear Annie give her statement to the cops. She says that Teddy told Annie that Dolly Smith, his mother, is dead. And Annie says other people heard him say that, too. So it's like, why is he announcing now that she's dead? How did he know that? But he was just smiling.

[A]

But I want to be clear that, like, there's no indication that he did it. He was there and he was acting kind of strange, but, like, she is dead and we're eventually going to find out that there is no reason to believe that she was murder. What the important thing to understand here, what this thing here leads to, the thing that Teddy does that gets him arrested, but it's all a haze of confusion. There's a dead body who is the mother of this guy who is all of a sudden taking off and now shooting guns at people and acting very strangely. And it's all very confusing.

[B]

And people are like, quote, trying to calm him down. And Annie says, and this broke my heart, because Annie goes, teddy.

[C]

Can we.

[A]

We talk.

[B]

It's me, Annie. It's me, Annie.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And when you say that to someone, the person you're talking to is not fully present and you're trying to bring them back.

[A]

I want to say that, like, Annie is going to tell us this later. I'm going to say this now for the sake of clarity. What Annie thinks is going on here is that Teddy is thinking, my mom is dead. I'm the only one here. People are going to think I did this. I got to get the fuck away from here because I didn't do it. And that's why he's acting so crazy. Easily.

[B]

Right. So the report says that Teddy shot at the people at his mother's house and then bailed. Yes, that's what's written in the documented report.

[A]

And we hear it from the body cam, like we hear the shot fired.

[B]

So we meet two Alaska State troopers because the troopers aren't in the community, but when something like this happens, they get called in.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So Sergeant Nathan Bucknell and Lieutenant Mike Roberts. And they say when they got there, it was chaos. Like it wasn't clear where Teddy was. When they went into the house, it was quiet and still.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So they're. We just heard this sort of chaotic scene and they're like, well, when we got there, it was like eerily quiet.

[A]

Yeah. And making things worse, as the manhunt for Teddy is on, the people of the village are telling these troopers who do not know Teddy, he's a former Marine, he's pro, he's armed, and he'll probably want to take out one of you guys.

[B]

But the village is now on lockdown. Teddy's mom, Dolly is dead. Teddy shot at responders, allegedly. Teddy's nowhere to be found. He's talking crazy, he's armed. No one knows who's next.

[A]

And I'm just going to say one more time, like in the moment, there's every reason to believe that Teddy killed his mom because he's acting so crazy. He's acting like a person who killed somebody. But eventually we're going to learn there's no reason to believe that Teddy killed his mom. And this is all the reason Teddy has taken off and is acting so crazily is because he's assuming that people are going to think that he did that.

[B]

Right. So on this full on manhunt for Teddy, the troopers go to Teddy's house and they take.59 rifles and guns. And James is like, holy, that's a lot of guns, man. Yeah, they're high caliber rifle rifles. They're not just protection in case a bear gets out of line, which first. Just have a conversation first.

[A]

Yeah, but it's also their house.

[B]

It's their house.

[A]

This whole planet is their house.

[B]

But it's also like the indigenous people's house first. So not to mention Teddy's a Marine. Former Marine. He Was smart. He knows how to use these weapons. He has a lot of them. And Teddy is in the wind, and Lieutenant Mike is like, we didn't have any leads. And then he goes. We didn't even try to look for him because eventually people just come back.

[A]

Because there's nowhere to go. We are going to learn the vastness of this wilderness.

[B]

But, Annie, there's nowhere to go. Or, like, is there? That's the thing. Like, it is a vast wilderness. It is where people don't go because they can't really survive out there. So why would they even try?

[A]

Right? Yes.

[B]

And just like, that's an important part of the story.

[A]

Well. And to that end, Annie tells us that before Teddi took off, Teddy told his sister Lorena.

[C]

Before he ran, he told his sister Lorena. Lorena told me this, that he was talking to. To little people by the house that made him go kill his mom. Inigrants.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

A lot of people always say, you're not supposed to talk about them.

[B]

Annie's like, james, we shouldn't even be talking about them. Like, basically, the way these Inukins work, don't start no shit. There won't be no shit. If you don't bother them, they won't bother you. But if you bother them, they will do something. And even now, Annie's like, james, I know you wanna know, but, like, I'm not fully comfortable with this conversation is what I'm gathering from Annie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do wanna to say that we have audio from Lorena Walker, Teddy's sister.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she describes finding her mother's body. And she says there was something above her head, but there was not a cord wrapped around her head.

[A]

And when we get the police report, eventually, there is no cord wrapped around her head in the official police report.

[B]

And the troopers say, even now, when they walked in, there was no signs of a fight or a struggle. It was still. Like, it had been still for quite some time.

[A]

And there was no damage to the body. We're going to learn all of that later. But, like, I don't think he killed her.

[B]

And the dog was an ag. The dog was just trying to be nice to their loved one and try to help them, but there wasn't any.

[A]

My theory on all of this is that Teddy was drinking. We'll know later that Teddy had been drinking at the time he was in his house. He found his mother had died. He got freaked out. He was confused and disoriented, decided that people were going to think that he killed her. And Then he just, like, had an episode. That's what I think happened here.

[B]

Right. So James needs to talk to Lorena, who's Teddy's sister. James is our narrator and host here, and. Which is like, I don't want to call him a host because he's so much more than that. But he's like our guy.

[A]

We' he's our storyteller, just like his great grandfather.

[B]

And James is like. James feels bad because he doesn't want to unlock all of this for Lorena. It's been really hard for a long time, but he's like, all I need is five minutes.

[A]

And he doesn't know her, so it's like a cold ask.

[B]

And what he does is. I loved how James did this. I really like James a lot because he approaches Lorena outside of her house. They're meeting for the first time, and he's so nice and so chill and so approachable. There's a lot of talk about consent. And he's like, look. He goes, I have family members in jail. I know they're not 100% bad. I know some. Sometimes things just happen. Yeah, I totally understand.

[A]

Because just to be clear, what Teddy is in jail for is not the death of his mother. He's in jail for something else.

[B]

Right. And so James is trying to level with Lorena and be like, I don't think your brother is a bad guy. Like, I have people in jail, too. I know they're not 100% bad. He goes, I just want some questions. I want to get to the bottom of what happened.

[C]

I was just trying to find people who knew him as a person.

[A]

And, you know, I still had anxiety.

[C]

Oh, I understand. I completely understand. I completely. I wasn't able to interview her. She just. She wouldn't talk to me. Yeah, talking to you, too, Lorena. Have a good one.

[B]

Lorena says no, and James totally, respectfully gets it, and he's on his way to the next lead.

[A]

Now, in Lorena's defense, James did bring a documentary crew with him from afar. You know what I mean? Yeah. They are keeping a respectful distance, but.

[B]

I'm like, see them? I think he would have said, if we let me get one, yes first, and then I'll break the news about the crew. But I loved how he handled this.

[A]

No, absolutely. Absolutely the right way.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Short answer is I agree. I love it because these CBD gummies are formulated to work with your body, not against it. I. We're all up against it too much now. Take the CBD gummies.

[A]

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[B]

Yeah. And it's good for, like, I don't know if, if you're stressed out, if there's discomfort, if you just need a little relaxation, like, it's just for everything.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

That's cornbreadhem.com TCOand use code TCO. My friend Robbie asked me if I actually take these the other day, and I said, yes, I do. Would you like one? And I gave him one. Oh, great.

[B]

Now he's a fan.

[A]

Now he's a fan.

[B]

Love. So let's talk about Dolly Smith.

[A]

Dolly Smith was a pillar of the community. She made these gorgeous, expensive. They call them parkys or parkas, but they're beautiful. Beautiful handmade, thick jackets made of animal hide.

[B]

Yeah. So she is described as a really, really good seamstress.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And these parkas are really important. And we'll get into the importance of them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But at the scene, some of them were cut open, almost like they were intentionally cut up to be destroyed and no one knows why. And James is like, dolly would never do that. And James thinks it's a message because he says parkas are a status symbol. It's a very iconic Inuit look.

[A]

And he grew up making them with his mom. Like, James's mom also makes them. And we, we get some, like, footage of them working on them. And they're beautiful, but he really knows what it means to have these things. So for them to be destroyed at the crime scene means something to James.

[B]

And I just want to say, like, this is not like buying fur from some designer. This is a sacred practice. It is Necessary in this community. They are crafted with purpose. They are made with a lot of care. It's the idea of using every bit of the animal. If you're going hunting, do everything to respect the animal, to thank the animal. So this is not like buying a stupid fur coat from some fucking designer.

[A]

No.

[B]

So that's why I'm not going on a rant about it. This is a sacred practice in this community.

[A]

Chilean will allow it.

[B]

It's important. It's what they do. I'm not here to shit on a sacred practice that they take incredibly seriously. And done with a lot of care and respect 100%. So James is with his mom Verna and like as she's working with the fur and they're talking about the inukin and James is like, people in our.

[C]

Area have always kind of talked about some this kind of stuff just kind of based on we find the little footprints, we see little running away, we stuff missing at camp.

[B]

When he talks to people older than him, they're all like, James, like what do you want me to say? We're not really supposed to talk about it. And like we always kind of knew and had these experiences, but like this is just our life. Like what, what do you want me to say?

[A]

It's interesting because everybody in this documentary, even people like law enforcement or like jury members that will meet event, everybody who's asked about the idea of the inukins is like, yeah, like it's, it's connected to the culture, it's connected to the spirituality. Like nobody denies that these actual flesh and blood beings like live out there in the wilderness.

[B]

Right. And on top of that, Verna James mom believes in the supernatural in general, but she believes in inukin and their powers. And she goes, there are absolutely forces of both good and evil out in the world. But it's about which one you feed more. Are you gonna feed the good one or the bad one?

[A]

Hear this from hunters. We hear this from people that like wouldn't normally like necessarily like you would think agree with this. Like woo kind of stuff.

[B]

Like everybody not this is their culture.

[A]

And everybody has had some kind of experience. Some of it is human and some of it is supernatural. But everybody's like, yeah, this shit is real.

[B]

I'm there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like I totally. Who am I to. Absolutely. You're telling me about your culture. This is what we're doing.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

So we hear audio of Teddy speaking with his lawyer Angela, the one who was like, james, we're not talking.

[A]

Yeah. And it's really Interest. Because you can tell that, like, this is the lawyer that's gonna defend him in this horrible thing that he's about to do that you haven't heard about yet. So you're not missing anything yet. But, like, he's saying to her, he ran into the woods when he left his mother's house.

[B]

Sorry, go ahead.

[A]

Same brain.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

With no destination in mind. Felt like he was being led, Told to take his parka. Doesn't know who told him this. So he is saying that when he ran from his mother's house, he was being guided. And he said he went to the mountains with no food or water. He was living on berries. He was eating frozen ice. And then he describes, like, camping out in the wilderness. He said, I had visitors that night at camp.

[C]

It sounded like 20 of them marched right by me. And they. They were. They were making it real obvious wherever I slept, that's. They. They would come there at. At night and talk to me, talk amongst each other. They would be making squirrel noises and bird noises.

[A]

They made bird noises and squirrel noises. Like, he's describing a real experience with real beings who are trying to communicate with him.

[B]

Yeah. And he also says, importantly to his lawyer, the word destination comes up. Because she's like, where were you going? And he said, I didn't have a destination. I was being led somewhere. I was told to take this parky. By who? I have no idea. So then he has this experience where they would talk to Teddy. They talk to themselves, making these noises. All of this stuff has been written in the books and told by the. By the storytellers who are held in very high regard. Now, a skeptic could be, like. Because they've been written in the books for thousands of years. That's why. Like, it's just sort of seeping into your psyche. But I don't know. I. I'm not a skeptic. In. In this scenario, to any skeptic, I.

[A]

Want to say to you, but you have to remember this man was the one of these people who actually got out and made good and was like a Hollywood actor.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So doing what makes no sense, we'll learn later, he has no history of mental illness.

[B]

It's not like he's been off the grid his whole life.

[A]

No. And he's right. Exactly. There's no reason for him to do what he did. So the idea that he was possessed by. By some sort of supernatural thing, I think is a little bit more believable. And he describes his experience of, like, being out camping in the woods and going to get water one night. And he said, up until now, he had just heard them outside of his tent, but now he sees these beings across the river. And he said, we just stood there looking at each other for the longest time. And he says over and over again, I could hear the words. They were vulnerable, weak, death. And he said, I ignored them. I knew if I started a conversation, it would be like an open agreement that I was willing to go with them. This is very real to him.

[B]

And he says, if I followed them, I'd never come back.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And it cuts to James and he's like, look, I know how this sounds. I'm a rational guy. I get it.

[C]

But I know from my grandfather's stories that in each one of those Inupac stories, there's a sliver of truth. I had always been raised around people who talk about these things. Competent hunters, you're sane, respectable people.

[B]

I heard these stories from, he calls them. He goes, from sane, respectable people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I know what he's trying to say. Like, the guy you wouldn't expect to believe in this, like, Ross.

[A]

So enter Ross. He's the village elder who was out hunting. And, like, he tells this really long story about being out in the woods and having this experience that his, like, body was starting to be possess by a supernatural force. And he, because he grew up in this community, he knew what was happening to him.

[B]

And this guy, he's a retired magistrate. He's a superior courtmaster, He's a woodworker. And I think what they're trying to say is, like, this is a guy who works with, like, facts and, you know, like, logic and reason. And he is saying. He goes, I know a lot of people think Teddy's crazy, but I don't know, man. Like, I've seen things. He goes, I've had experiences. And when he talks about his body being taken over, he describes it. He goes, it started from my head, and then they got control of my V. And he goes, I don't know what I would have become if I couldn't stop it. Some people don't have the control to stop it. I don't know. I was able to.

[A]

Yeah. He says he, like, called out to.

[B]

God and he, like, was able to stop it, but he, to this day. And I believe him. Like, I believe him.

[A]

I mean, look, to just talk about it for a second, I'm down with the earthly bound people living in the wilderness and wanting to not deal with the other human humans and all of that. You Lose me a little bit on the spirituality. My body was taken over by a demon. Like, I don't know about that.

[B]

I don't think they're demons, though. I think they. I don't know. I'm in.

[A]

I'm open to, like, being wrong. I'm not saying I'm right, but I'm much more in the earthly world of, like, we meet people who give us actual evidence that these people actually do live out there.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that, to me, is much more compelled. I'm not saying I don't believe that. I guess I don't have a strong opinion on it one way or the other. But the actual things that we can touch and that we can see in the evidence that shows that these communities actually do live out there.

[B]

There's evidence.

[A]

I'm really into that.

[B]

There's evidence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So here's another thing that people see as evidence that I think I see as evidence too, because he was on.

[C]

Foot for 10 days, 40 miles through some of the most difficult terrain in Alaska, even by Alaska standards. The trek that Teddy made is crazy. It's almost unbelievable that he made it that far on foot by himself. There's a lot of people think he might have had help.

[B]

James is like, it's crazy. Like, it's. It is unbelievable that he made it that far on foot by himself.

[A]

And especially in that weather and the temperature. He did not have the clothing to not become hypothermic, and somehow he didn't.

[B]

And even the cops are like, yeah, we don't know. Like, did he have help? Like, it doesn't make any sense for him to have made that journey. It makes no sense.

[A]

And, like, if you see the documentary alone, if you see the documentary, you'll see, like, the terrain that he traveled through. It is the densest. I mean, absolutely impenetrable forest. And he makes it on foot with. Remember, he had no food, no water, no warm clothing.

[B]

It's uninhabited, as far as we know.

[A]

With the clothing on his back. And somehow. So people are saying, did he have help? So was he helped along the way?

[B]

He comes across in his. His travels, he comes across a cabin. It's totally off the grid. There's no cell service, no Internet, just military radio, Marine radio.

[A]

Yeah, he was.

[B]

Was able. He, like, goes into this cabin, so it's not his cabin. He is. I guess if we're going to get technical about it either, the very least, trespassing, possibly breaking an entering, we're going.

[A]

To learn whose cabin it is. It's a nice Cabin. It's like a cabin that's in the wilderness for like on purpose. And it's got like nice furniture.

[B]

And so he goes in, he eats the bag of potato chips cuz he's starving. It's been 10 days. But he says, when I reached the cabin, I was no longer bothered by these people. Meaning the Inukan?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So then they're like, all right, tell us about the shooting.

[A]

So eventually he's just like living in this cabin and two hunters show up. Their names are Paul and Charles Buckle.

[B]

They're brothers.

[A]

They're brothers. Teddy is. They're not husbands, they're brothers.

[B]

Yeah. Paul is here with us.

[A]

Yeah. Teddy is sleeping. He hears their voices outside. And like this I love so much because the Buckles, this is their friend's cabin and the friends are like, you can use it anytime. So they're there to use the cabin. They come upon Teddy.

[C]

He introduced himself as Paul and said, yeah, I' working on the cabin. Nothing seemed off, nothing seemed out of place. We carry the rest of the gear in and we got the clothes hung up, we sat, we had coffee, hot chocolate.

[A]

They all are like, hey man. Hey bro. Mix it down for cocoa and coffee.

[B]

Because kyana has like 350 people. They recognized each other like right away. So they were like, oh, Teddy. And the guy from the end, he was famous. So they were like, oh hey.

[A]

I guess I just love this idea of like not being mad that this guy broke into your friend's cabin, but more like happy to have a friend in the wilderness.

[B]

Because also they're in the middle of nowher and the weather sucks, it's raining really hard. So they're not going to be like, you have to leave person we know from our 300 person community, like, no, we're going to take care of each other.

[A]

Do you know what I just realized? This cabin is for me a party barge. I would never go there. Like going to a cabin in the wilderness is to love party barges is what getting on a party bar just for you.

[B]

I see, I see like me alone.

[A]

In a cabin in the woods with no cell service, no cabin in the rain.

[B]

Are you kidding me? I listen to rain sounds to fall asleep. I get it. In the wild. I get it. Really?

[A]

No. 40 miles from anybody. Absolutely. This is I now what you feel like when I try to pressure you to get on the party bar.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

The absolute anxiety.

[B]

Sometimes you have to hit your rock bottom.

[A]

Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Oh God, I'm there.

[B]

You know so Teddy is, at the very least trespassing. This is not his cabin. Right. He doesn't have permission to be there. I'm just saying. But at the same time, the brothers, like you were saying, haven't spoken to the owner of the cabin recently. They were just like, hey, if you ever come upon it, the weather sucks. Like, you can use it whenever.

[A]

The keys are under the mat. Go in any time.

[B]

Help yourself to the salt and vin.

[A]

We got a bag of chips on the table. It's not going to eat itself.

[B]

Right. But everything's fine. They're ch. They're having hot chocolate. And Paul's like, I cannot stress enough. Nothing was weird. Like, there were weapons, but, like, the brothers had the hunting rifles. There was also a pistol in the kitchen. But James is like, this is very normal. It's for protection or hunting or whatever. Like, nothing is out of place here.

[A]

So Paul gets up to go look for his satellite phone because he's got to call people and, like, let them know that they got there or whatever. It's not where he thought he left it. Everyone is looking for it and something happens. And Ted, Teddy, flips.

[B]

And also, I do want to say they're asked, no smell of alcohol. No one is seeming hammered. They're drinking hot chocolate and having a grand old time in the rain. Like, yes, it's normal and wholesome.

[C]

So Teddy says these voices started coming back. And I thought that they were part of the voices and everything that was following me. I thought that I was being deceived into doing something or. Or going to be led into something. That's when I saw.

[A]

Suddenly these voices are back.

[B]

They've come back.

[A]

He feels like now he's fighting the voices that are telling him to do something.

[B]

And he's feeling tricked. And he goes. And that's when I shot them. I think maybe what he's trying to say, I could be totally wrong, but I think it's almost like the voices are saying, you can't trust these people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They are tricking you.

[A]

Now, this, to me, is where it sounds much more like a mental health.

[B]

Episode a little bit. Yes.

[A]

You know.

[B]

You know, it feels. Because one of the Bro Charles Chuck is shot in the chest by Teddy and the bullet goes completely through him and out the window. And now the brothers are both panicking.

[A]

Yeah. And Paul, the brother, the one who hasn't been shot, is begging for the satellite phone so they can call for help. He says Teddy is screaming. All of a sudden. Teddy wants all their shit. He wants their boat he wants their supplies. He tells Paul to go get the boat. Paul gets the boat and then comes back. And Teddy shoots him.

[B]

And. But once again, the bullet goes right through Paul's shoulder and goes completely through him, just like it did for his brother. Now, as these two men are.

[A]

They're hiding in the woods.

[B]

Yeah. They have found each other somehow. They are. Teddy has left them for dead. There's no other way to say it because he starts packing up all of their gear into the boat.

[A]

Their food, their guns, their satellite phone, everything. He's taking everything.

[B]

And there's no way. These. These men are. There's no way to get in touch with anyone. They're in the middle. They happen to find each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then Paul happens to find this marine band. He calls it this, like radio.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And turns it to channel 68. And is incredibly lucky that someone picks up, connects to troopers. And these two men are saved.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's 20 hours after being shot when I tell you the fact that they're alive is a miracle. It is not. I cannot say that enough.

[A]

And Paul tells us most people shot in the. In the chest the way that Chuck, his brother, was, wouldn't survive for more than a couple hours. And then he says of his own.

[C]

Injuries, when they figured out what had actually happened to me. The female artery and the other. The brachial artery in your arm. If you cut it, nick it. Most people are bleed out within five to 10 minutes.

[A]

Most people would bleed out in 10 minutes. They didn't get to a hospital for 20 hours. He says, why I didn't die that night? Nobody knows. And then he says neither one of us should have survived. There are a lot of things going on out there that none of us can explain.

[B]

Nobody can make sense of it. The troopers, the doctors. No, the doctors are like, how. Wait 20 hour? What, in the rain, in that terrain? It took you, like, the panic of it? Like, what? It makes no sense. So the troopers are now in the choppers trying to spot Teddy.

[A]

Teddy's on the river. The troopers are in the air. They find him. They tell the troopers on the ground where they are, and these other troopers set up an ambush. Now, the two doing the ambush are the ones that have been with us the whole time. And they say, like, one had his sight set on the raft to take the raft out, and the other one had a license to kill Teddy if he did not comply with their orders.

[B]

Now this ambush is ours. They're standing in the woods waiting to pounce on Teddy for hours and the troopers say once they finally make contact with Teddy, Teddy is, like, in shock, like, because they're.

[A]

The troopers are in the woods and they're using some kind of bullhorn. And so Teddy can't see them, and he doesn't know where the voices are coming from.

[B]

And so he thinks that talking to him or the inukin or. At one point, he looks up to the sky and they're saying it's so clear that he's, like, scanning the tree line, desperately trying to see who or what is speaking to him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I mean, what a mind.

[A]

Like, if you. Have you been hearing voices, and all of a sudden there are real voices that you think you're hearing.

[B]

That is, like, heartbreaking to me that he's on this boat, probably not remembering what he just did, Whether it was a supernatural thing or an episode of some kind or a lie or a lot. Like, he's just out there.

[A]

I mean, we have to acknowledge that could be a lie.

[B]

I get. I. Sure.

[A]

It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense why he would. But just to say that, like, he.

[B]

Could be lying, why he would place himself as a sitting duck instead of running through the woods, why he's now in the river where they could easily see him, like, he's not here.

[A]

No. I mean, if anything, to me, if it's not the actual supernatural thing that, like, people are saying it could be, it has to be some kind of mental health episode.

[B]

Sure, yeah. Of course. Like, without, say, saying that. Without diagnosing it, like. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is not someone who's here with us. And. But the idea of trying to, like, really, like, grasp who's speaking to him through the trees, like, heart is heartbreaking to me.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So Teddy Kyle Smith is arrested without incident.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he just keeps repeating. And you can, and you can, and.

[A]

You can, because James is saying what makes Teddy's case unique is that under oath, he begins talking about the inukins. They want to talk to him about why he shot these people. And he's trying to talk to them about his experience with the inukins.

[B]

Now this is when it gets complicated, because was Teddy really being tried of a jury of his peers, or is it a bunch of white people who don't know anything about the folklore and his culture and. And the regard of the story?

[C]

And James tells us the ACLU and the Native American Rights Fund got involved, and they were saying that villagers from Kyana would be more receptive to the fact that maybe he Has a flawed and complicated man as he is. Maybe he did have an encounter out there that he really wanted us, the people, to know about.

[A]

They're trying to convince the judge that maybe people from Kiana, which is where Teddy is from, would be a better option of jurors because they would at least understand the legend of the lore of the inukin. Whereas the only juror we meet is this white guy who's like, I'm sure. I guess it's possible, but we didn't even take that into consideration in our deliberations.

[B]

Right. This. This guy, Robin, he totally discounted anything. He goes, there's no place for that.

[A]

In fairness, I don't know if he. Because he does say he believes that there is a world in which the innu can exist, but that that wasn't what they considered in this trial. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but he to me is another person.

[B]

Who'S like, yeah, it's possible because the facts remain. He shot two people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He left them for dead. He broke into a cabin. He was on the run. That's what these. On paper, right? Yes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Cuz the judge asks Teddy what would have happened if you didn't listen to these influences. And Teddy says, you know, I've asked myself a lot over these last few years. And I went years. Like I looked up. It took two years for him to get to trial. But when he says maybe I should have just went down the path they wanted me to go years ago, I'm like, this has been brewing in him for quite some time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the jury is like, this is all an act. He. He's guilty of attempted murder in the first degree. He gets a 99 year sentence with no probation there. Death penalty in Alaska. But the jury is like, this guy's just trying to act crazy. Like they don't believe a word of it.

[A]

I would like to be clear that that is not what I think. I know I threw that out as an option because we have to consider it because it is an option. I don't think that's what happened for me. I think that it's a real experience that he really had. Or a mental health break.

[B]

Yeah. Because. Because James is like, look, I think the India can exist and let's talk about the facts of why I think that. Yeah, says James.

[A]

And also me, in fairness, he says they definitely existed and they may still do. I don't know that he' that they definitely exist today. But he's saying that at least at One time they definitely did, and maybe they still do.

[B]

Yeah. They don't really get into this, but I just want to say, because James.

[C]

Says that recently there was a proposed mining road north of the Cobuk river to get all this minerals back to Anchorage. And so a group of archaeologists, geologists, have to go and scout the. The area and make sure that it's not going to affect the ecosystem.

[B]

Look into the Ambler Road project. It's a 211 mile stretch of land. It's in danger of being destroyed, drilled. Yeah, of course, you know, and it would destroy the land, the resources, the people, the animals. President Biden put a stop to it in 2024. Things have since been reversed. It is a mess. Look into it. Maybe we could stop this. Who knows? But that is what they're talking about. This environmental impact study was happening on this enormous piece of land that is uninhabited by humans for the most part.

[A]

Well, and as part of this, sent in geologists and archaeologists to make sure that the ecosystem wouldn't get messed up. And along with the geologists and the ecologists, they sent some tribal liaisons. Those are the people who are there to say, like, hey, you may not understand how this will affect the ecosystem. So let me actually tell you.

[B]

And on top of that, this is where most, if not all of the Inukin stories come from.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So this is a very important piece of land for the culture in general, not just the resources and the humans.

[A]

And the animals, but it's also, like, incredibly densely populated. And it is entirely possible that an entire, like, culture of people could live out there undetected.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's the point.

[B]

So when the study is published, they said, we found things we cannot explain.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They looked like they were sacred sites, and they look like, quote, little people, homes.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now, Mary Black is one of the tribal liaisons to the scientists who did this study. And James is like, oh, I know her.

[A]

And he gets her for the interview, and she is here. She's my favorite person in this whole documentary.

[B]

She. This is one of the best exchanges we've ever seen, ever. Because James, she knows what. She's here.

[A]

Son of a bitch.

[B]

I know, but we're going to. We're going to keep Mary Black. Mary Black is going to stay on the good side of history here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because James has been dying for this. Mary knows exactly why she's here. This is totally unscripted.

[C]

What were they? Tell me. Tell me what you saw. Just point blank, what did you see? Fucking homes. Like somebody's house. Like, not people houses. Not in homes. Yep.

[B]

Homes. Like someone's house. Like Inukin homes.

[A]

She says, not like people's homes, but. And then he says, in homes. And she says, yes. And she knows. Describes them like they're small structures that small people would live in. They look like homes that were built by people. And Mary is the one who shuts down the project. She says, I told them they needed to stop work immediately. This is not our land. This is their land. And then she goes. And they were like, but can we just. And she goes, no, this is some real shit.

[B]

This is some real shit. And they fly over the land and you can see the homes, and there they are. And now James and Mary, this is why you need people from the community and from the culture to be in this conversation. Because they're saying.

[A]

And in fairness, they were right.

[B]

And because. Because they're saying these houses are made out of rocks, like big boulders. And James is like, that's not what Inupac people made their homes out of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They use sod or tents in the summertime.

[A]

So, like, point being, this is not from our ancestors. This is another different culture of people that you saw.

[B]

And Mary's like, we're putting an end to all. Like, we don't know. No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

Now, to me, this is the best evidence we have that the UK are real. They are absolutely. Or were. Like, they seem to be uninhabited at this point, or at least that part of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But, like, that they either did exist or did and still do.

[B]

And if looking for a supernatural part of the story, after they found this.

[C]

Land, there was five helicopters. They flew in two mechanics. They looked through all. Everything. There was nothing wrong with them. Helicopters. Nothing. Nothing wrong with them. But they wouldn't fly. They wouldn't fly. They wouldn't even turn.

[B]

The helicopters stopped working. Nothing was wrong with them. They were fully charged.

[A]

Yeah. They brought down five mechanics.

[B]

Nothing was wrong with them. They just wouldn't turn on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right after this area was discovered. I don't know what that means.

[A]

I know. I'm with you. I'm with you.

[B]

I would again look into the Ambler Road project if we could stop it. That would be real fucking great. That's my homework for today. Please help stop this whole Ambler Road situation.

[A]

So Jeff tells us about how he feels like he's trying to tell this story the right way and that he feels like. Because he's trying to do it, for example, not badgering, the story is starting to come to him because out of.

[B]

Nowhere, Lorena, Teddy's sister, calls James.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she's ready to talk.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And when that.

[A]

And only to him, of course.

[B]

Because why, like, he's the only person.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. And I guess Ward got around, or she called Bob or someone was like, this is who you can trust. But, like, in these moments, even in real life, when someone is finally ready to sit down and talk to you, you know, like it's a major moment.

[A]

Major moment. Yes.

[B]

And James takes such care of this.

[A]

Yeah. It's very Robin Roberts, in my opinion.

[B]

It really, you know. You know. And so Lorena talks about their mom, Dolly, and she says on the record a million times, she does not think her brother Teddy did anything to Dolly and her brother.

[A]

The evidence backs it up, just for the millionth time.

[B]

And this is when she said what you said earlier for the context, because it would have been very confusing if you didn't actually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That she's like, well, no, her theory is that he would never do anything to hurt her, but it was going to look like he did.

[A]

And he was a drinker, and he was probably drinking and conf. And didn't know what to do and acted out.

[B]

Because the medical report kind of backs up what Lorraine is saying. There were no real injuries, no strangulation, no signs of a struggle. The cause of death is undetermined. Not. Not murder, not natural causes, just undetermined.

[A]

No one's been charged with her death.

[B]

And Lorena 100% believes that her brother saw Inukins.

[A]

Yeah. And once again, she says, I believe this because he's never heard voices or had experiences like this at any other point in his life. We spent all of our time together. This has never happened. Why else would he do of this crazy stuff if what he's telling us isn't true?

[B]

And Lorena says, however, I do think he was also drinking a lot at the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now we get James and Bob and they're together and they're trying to put make sense of all of these different pieces. And Bob is like, look, I got to tell you, after a bender. And he said this at this time, at the time of this filming, he's over four years and eight months sober. To which I said, fuck, yeah, Bob.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But he's like, if he was on.

[C]

An alcohol bender for a week and he kind of was stopping the. The DTS. Yeah. The snakes people. When the snake out, 100% will vouch for that. Because I've fucking partied for weeks. I fogging hallucinated. I seen snakes, you know, fudgeing snake and out.

[B]

What they're saying is like going on a bender for drinking this, like, homemade whiskey.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

For weeks and weeks. Bob's like, you see some shit, you hallucinate.

[A]

I mean, so then maybe that's what this is. I don't want to take away the magic of the Indian, but, like, maybe that's what this is.

[B]

Because James, to your point, explains that, like, in this community, in this small village, it's kind of a different kind of drinking because, like, something that's 10 buc in the city is like $200 here.

[A]

And I think that they. We know that there's a cap on the amount of liquor you're allowed to have in your house, because I think we know that this town has a reputation of a lot of drinking and violence. And so a lot of the liquor is bootleg. It's just very hard to get alcohol. So when you drink it, you consume it quickly.

[B]

And James says they call it time traveling.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You'll start drinking in one place, blackout, end up somewhere else and not know how you got there. And James, I. This was like. I was on the edge of my seat. Just the way he said, this is so moving, James, you're such a good storyteller.

[A]

You really are.

[B]

Because he says he used to be a really drinker. And he said I was erasing myself. I was losing who I was. And he goes, so I have my last drink, I. My last cigarette, and I wrote another letter to Teddy.

[A]

But that means that happened during the course of making this documentary. Yeah, like that. Like when we started with James, he was still living that way. And in the course of like. Like this documentary saved him in a way. Telling Teddy's story saved him.

[B]

Because James lays it all out on the table in this letter. Who he is, where he's from, how much he relates to Teddy, how much he sees Teddy. Which wants. Really right. Is this scene.

[C]

And he says, mainly interested in the inuin part of the story. Would you be willing to talk with me on the phone? I've included a copy of my great grandfather's book. I hope you enjoy the stories and take care. P.S. i put money on your books because.

[A]

I am of you. I am of your people. And here's the book that my grandfather essentially wrote about his experience with the inukin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he sends this off to Teddy and like, we don't know how much longer later, but his phone rings and it's Teddy calling.

[B]

And he goes. And also I put some money on your account.

[A]

Oh, that was also very smart.

[B]

Smart.

[A]

I made out of that too.

[B]

And I don't. I'm not saying it was all because of that, but it's just like, can't hurt. James is like, dude, I'm. I'm giving you everything I can possibly give here. I'm using. All my cards are on the table. I'm not bullshitting anything here. Even. Here's a little bit for your time because it suck in there, you know, like, he's a good dude.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have, have an automated call from your uncle and he thought it was his actual uncle who could be calling him from the inside. It's Teddy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so Teddy wants to speak in person and James is panicked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he goes, I was nervous, I wasn't scared. But like James is literally blowing on his palms because we're right back to 8 mile. That's how sweaty his palms are.

[A]

Yeah. I was just gonna say like, this must have been how you felt when you interviewed Lin Manuel Miranda when he came to. I'm not making a joke. Like, I'm saying that like to Teddy it's the same thing. It's like this is the story he's wanted to get. He feels close to this guy. And like, I relate to this moment too. I've done big interviews where I can't sleep the night before. Like, I totally understand.

[B]

I lived in a fourth floor walk up and it was so echoey and I could. I heard the footsteps coming up the.

[A]

Stairs and it feels like a march towards death.

[B]

I know, it's wild. And I was like, I can't open the door.

[A]

I know that feeling. With the same exact person, in fact.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's wild. So for of course, different reasons, more important reasons here, but like, you know, they're coming together. They're bond over what they have in common, which is so much. And they don't have a lot of time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

James looks off camera and he, he's very aware of the ticking clock.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which. Which sucks. Cuz it's so important. And after all this time and like the changes that James made to his life, what he's learned about himself and his culture, it's like now there's like TikTok, we gotta go. Like. So James asks Teddy about Dolly, about the night his mother died.

[A]

Yeah. And so he says.

[C]

Yeah. You're not getting an answer from that. Some things in life happen that can be explained. I didn't do it. I didn't. You know, my family knows that you.

[A]

Know, And I know that my family knows that I didn't do it, and I know that I didn't do it. But, like, I think that, like, died of natural causes. Like, her death was declared undetermined.

[B]

And he's never been charged for it.

[A]

And he's never been charged.

[B]

He's not in prison for that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But now we talk about Paul and Charles Buckle, who he shot and left for dead. It's a miracle these two men are alive.

[A]

An absolute miracle.

[B]

And. And I don't say that lightly.

[A]

No, really, I'm with. Yes.

[B]

And so Teddy says he is sorry for what he did, for shooting those men. He said if I'm. If I am not sorry, then I'm not growing and I'm not learning.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he says every opportunity I ever get to help them out, I will in whatever way I can. But then where he starts talking about. In.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he's explaining, because James is like, what happened? Like, what do you remember about shooting them? Like, what did it feel like? Was it you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or was it this experience?

[A]

Yeah. And he starts to recount the story that we've heard, you know, that he was encountering everything he'd ever been warned about as a kid. To be honest with you, I was losing the thread of this conversation. It was very hard for me to follow exactly what Teddy was trying to.

[B]

Say, because he says. He goes, it's almost as if time stopped. And he goes. And I mean completely.

[C]

Almost.

[B]

Like, really, like, I understand what he said. I can visualize it, but I can't use the word. So I apologize. But time stopped. And he said, everything he's learned from childhood, everything he's been told to not even speak about becomes clear into his sight of view.

[A]

But, like, what he ultimately lands on is that he. They weren't trying to get him to go with them. They were trying to teach him to go back to the old ways.

[C]

They have seen our culture disappearing. The language, the drumming, the singing. You're given up. All this because of Western society. And they see that with their own eyes.

[B]

He's saying they were describing him at that stage in his life. He was drinking too much. He was big timing everyone. He had this great opportunity to do this great stuff for the community, and he was throwing it away. And so what he's saying is that he was on the wrong path. He was so close to death. And they are saying, like, go back to the old way of life. This culture is disappearing. We don't want you to be part of that new society. Only almost, maybe, perhaps, like, come be with us.

[A]

I don't know, girl. I mean, I believe everything that he's saying about, like, returning to culture, preserving the culture. Obviously, I 100 million percent believe in.

[B]

It because it's what James is saying. So it's a parallel thing of, like, stick to the Inuit community.

[A]

Yes. And I. But I also think this is a man who did something awful after a long bender of drinking and has had a long time to think about why. And yeah, and I'm not saying he's lying. I think that he probably believes that story to be true. But I. To me, it just. It sounds like a guy that had a mental health crisis after a long time of drinking homemade whiskey.

[B]

Yeah. Because what James says, the filmmaker in conclusion, basically, is that, like, he believes that Teddy saw the inukin, but he thinks Teddy misunderstood the message, that they weren't trying to hurt him, they were trying to save him. And so James is saying that, like, it's a cautionary tale because Teddy is complicated and flawed and if you live a life of self destruction, you don't go very far. But if you go the other way, like the path. So James sort of takes that as like, I guess we'll never know.

[A]

Yeah. And I want to be really clear that I'm not saying it can't happen and it doesn't happen. I don't necessarily think it happened here, but it doesn't matter because, yes, those two men were shot and that is horrible and that should never have happened. But look how much has been learned. Look at the conversation that has been had by the tale this man has told about seeing the inukin and, you know, Hulu now putting out a documentary about remembering the culture, learning about the culture, you picking this documentary for us to cover and bringing it to our listeners. Like, there's so much good came from this.

[B]

Because he says, like, James has to keep doing what he's doing because he says if you don't, they'll go away. Like, they will die.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so someone's got to give a shit about the stories. It's like, hi, James, I give a shit. All the time. We give a shit. So he's like, you know what? At the end of the day, we're.

[C]

Going to hold on to our traditions, our culture, our language, our dances, our stories in order to give future generations a sense of identity and not be told who you are.

[B]

To give future generations a sense of identity and not be told who you are. Like that stupid cough drop commercial.

[A]

Right, exactly.

[B]

That Teddy said early on, which I think was so important to hear. Like, sometimes you kind of believe, like, am I a cartoon? Am I a character? And that messes with you a lot. So, Jane, like, it's all about sort of taking the power back and being like, no, this is the story. And the Inukin stories could be real, but it also could be a mental health crisis that also needs to be addressed as well, I think. Right?

[A]

Yeah. Yes. And at the. But again, at the end of the day, a lot of good came from this.

[B]

I agree. I want to, like, look up James and see what else he's doing, what other stories he's telling. Like, I just want to talk to him more. And, Bob, if you'll have me.

[A]

Oh, my God, girl. We did. What's it called?

[B]

This is called Blood and Myth. It's on Hulu. It is excellent. It's like an hour and 15 minutes. It's really good.

[A]

So good. Hey, slide into GPCM today and thank her for working so hard on the calendar. No, listen to me. This is a. You are an unsung hero in this position. I really don't even know how hard it is, but I respect it and I'm grateful for it, fam. Join the Facebook group. Please join us on the Patreon.

[B]

Yeah, we got a lot. You can listen to this very thing ad free.

[A]

You can. And then, like, Mr. And Mrs. Murder. The disappearance of Amy Bradley, the Tylenol murders.

[B]

And sometimes we get interviews, like Dr. Ann Burgess and RuPaul from Undercover Underage. So I don't know, James, if you want to talk, like, that's where we do that. Like, our interviews are on patreon, so.

[A]

And YouTube.

[B]

And YouTube.

[A]

YouTube. For free.

[B]

So, you know.

[A]

Yeah, join us over there. What are we doing next, girl?

[B]

Oh, God. Trainwreck, Mayor of Mayhem. About that crazy Canadian mayor, Rob Ford.

[A]

Absolutely bananas.

[B]

This guy doesn't know how to keep his mouth.

[A]

I know.

[B]

If there's a foot, it's in this guy's mouth.

[A]

I know, I know. All right, well, stay tuned for the trailer for that fam. And we love you. And that's it.

[B]

This is what we like to call balance from blood and myth.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

This fucking literal train wreck.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[A]

All right, bye.

[B]

Bye. We love you.

[A]

Enough is enough. And I want respect. From the moment Rob Ford was elected, we all recognized that this was not.

[C]

Going to be a boring four years.

[A]

The public loved him.

[B]

He was like a rock star.

[A]

His success made no sense by any normal political standards. This is backdooring a quick Motion staff doesn't support it. You're upset.

[B]

He turned City hall into a circus. He does not have a shred of credibility.

[C]

He was always delivering this image of the Everyman, but what he told everybody was a lie.

[A]

All of a sudden, we realized control of Canada's biggest city was in the hands of a man who had no personal control over his life. Get off my property. If you are an alcoholic, which, you know, mayor, board, do you have a drug problem?

[C]

I said, rob, they say they have a video of you smoking crack cocaine. And he told me, worry, buddy. There's no video.

[B]

Trust me, I've seen it. He is smoking drugs in this video.

[A]

It's just lies after lies and lies.

[C]

Whoa.

[A]

I can't believe I'm here right now. Like, this is nuts. When you attack my integrity, I see red.

[B]

There were just so many twists and turns that you couldn't predict it.