465: Killer Relationship: Forbidden Love, Brutal Death (S1E5)

Summary

True Crime Obsessed

Episode 465: Killer Relationship: Forbidden Love, Brutal Death (S1E5)

Release Date: October 30, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the True Crime Obsessed team—Jessica, Faith, Jillian, and Patrick—recap and dissect Season 1, Episode 5 of “Killer Relationship with Faith Jenkins: Forbidden Love, Brutal Death” (available on Peacock). With their hallmark blend of irreverent humor, compassion, and incisive commentary, the hosts explore the tragic, twist-laden case of Joy Risker, a young Black woman groomed by charismatic youth pastor Sean Goff in a Southern California church throughout the late 1990s and early 2000s. The episode unpacks themes of religious authority, grooming, manipulation, polygamy, and systemic failure, exposing how a trusted church leader’s calculated abuse of power led to murder.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Joy Risker’s Early Life

[02:46–05:53]

• Hosts introduce Joy Risker as a vibrant, beloved San Diego teen, raised by her single mother, Gwen, after her father abandoned the family.
• Joy's high school friends describe her as "fun, positive, creative, and open-minded" ([03:07], Jessica). Joy and her friends acted as each other's chosen family due to their shared experiences of parental absence.
• Despite enjoying the rave scene, Joy remained devoted to her mother, attending church regularly out of respect ([05:53], Jessica: "She’d go to the raves, but she’d come home early...because Gwen was really churchy").

2. Enter Sean Goff: Grooming in a Church Context

[07:57–14:46]

• Joy and Gwen meet 27-year-old youth pastor Sean Goff at their church.
• Faith and Jessica immediately raise red flags: “Not the dynamic youth pastor—never ends.” ([08:07], Jessica).
• Sean's charisma warrants universal praise in the congregation. Jessica likens his popularity to “a pyramid scheme, but a person” ([09:09]).
• Gwen encourages Joy’s involvement, seeing church as antidote to “the party scene,” but the hosts highlight the inherently predatory danger: Joy, then 16, falls under Sean’s thrall, joining the youth group under the guise of finding stability ([10:19], Jessica: “He’s the older male figure she’s looking for…”).

Quotes

• [10:08] Faith: “There’s a reason why the youth pastor is always some hot young guy…gotta get the kids to want to come somehow.”
• [12:08] Faith: “It’s these fucking monsters who learn these systems and how to abuse them.”

3. Escalation: Grooming, Isolation, and Polygamy

[12:47–22:23]

• After two years of close mentorship, Sean invites now-18 Joy to live with him and his wife Sheila, acting as an unpaid nanny and housekeeper ([13:16], Jessica).
• Jessica calls out the racial and power dynamics: "This 30-year-old white guy is grooming an emotionally vulnerable Black teenager to be their live-in nanny and housekeeper for free” ([13:24], Jessica).
• Joy’s mother, Gwen, approves, believing this ensures Joy’s spiritual well-being ([14:02], Faith).
• Sean secretly marries Joy in a polygamous relationship while still married to Sheila, justifying his actions with biblical references, manipulating both his congregation and wives ([17:03], Jessica).

Quotes

• [16:07] Jessica: “He accidentally…copied and pasted something that was never meant for anyone else to see…”
• [18:24] Jillian (about Sean's justification): “Sean was able to make rational and believable cases for whatever he was trying to do based on the scripture.”

4. Community Reactions and Crumbling Facades

[22:54–33:34]

• Once the double marriage is exposed, Sean, Joy, and Sheila are ousted from the church, leaving Joy even more isolated.
• Joy attempts to reconnect with high school friends, whose support is tempered by confusion and concern for her wellbeing ([24:41], Faith).
• The hosts reflect on the difference between consensual polyamory and predatory polygamy, emphasizing Joy’s lack of agency due to grooming ([25:34], Jessica: “Polyamory or whatever is way different than this.”).
• Following the birth of her first child and Gwen’s death, Joy's support system is further eroded, heightening her dependency on Sean ([26:49], Faith).

Quotes

• [26:36] Jessica: “It’s so fucked because [her mother’s death is] pushing her more into the arms of these cult people.”

5. The Disappearance and Botched Alibi

[31:33–41:12]

• After a friend’s wedding, Joy disappears; Sean tells friends and police she ran off to Europe with an ex-boyfriend, “babysitting” their children alone ([32:04], Jessica).
• Sean crafts elaborate emails from Joy’s account feigning happiness and wanderlust, trying to mislead investigators and friends ([34:42], Jessica).
• Hosts lampoon the implausibility of Sean’s emails and cover story (“A girl can dream, can’t I?” [35:30], Jessica).
• Initial police investigation is hamstrung by friends omitting the polygamy from early reports, fearing legal consequences for Joy ([33:07–33:18]).

Quotes

• [35:00] Jessica, reading the fake email: "My choice, my decision. I did this. I had such a fire inside me... Also, do you remember that guy Jason that I definitely never once mentioned to anybody?”
• [37:38] Jessica: “The email references what a nightmare Sean is. Now we know Sean wrote these emails. It had to be in there for this email to be believable. Think about that. That’s fucking wild.”

6. Breakthrough: The Investigation Focuses on Sean

[41:06–48:37]

• Detectives Linda and John Taft ferret out inconsistencies in Sean’s shifting stories and unreported final phone calls.
• Linda interviews Sheila, who reveals Sean orchestrated her absence—and upon her return, told her to clean a bloody crime scene and accept “Joy’s” sudden departure without question ([47:06], Jessica).
• The hosts note Sheila's brainwashed compliance and candid interview with investigators as pivotal ([48:56], Jessica: “She’s so brainwashed…”).

Quotes

• [42:02] Detective Linda: “I’ve been talking to people, and they were holding that back. I was like, why didn’t you tell me that?”
• [44:43] Detective John Taft (on Sean’s admission): “He then told me that there was an accident and that she was killed. When I then used the word murder, he corrected me and said, no, she was killed.”

7. Forensic Evidence & Sean’s “Murder Kit”

[50:13–52:33]

• Investigation reveals Sean bought a shovel, hacksaw, ice pick, sledgehammer, tarp, etc., on his credit card in a single purchase; he also rented a car and drove 800 miles ([50:13], Federal Ranger).
• Jessica and Faith lampoon Sean’s stupidity for leaving such an obvious paper trail ([51:20], Faith: “So it’s literally a murder kit. He paid with his credit card. He didn’t even pay cash.”).
• Lack of a body stymies prosecution—until two hikers find Joy’s remains in Arizona, almost exactly 400 miles away from San Diego ([52:22], Jessica).

8. The Grisly Discovery & Murder Timeline

[52:33–55:32]

• Joy’s remains are found in a makeshift grave, showing evidence of brutal post-mortem dismemberment to avoid identification ([53:03], Faith).
• Sean's actions, including spreading body parts along the route and fabricating the email alibi, are recounted with horror and disbelief.
• The hosts highlight how church culture and deference to patriarchal authority enabled these crimes ([53:34], Jessica: “So when you think, why the fuck would Sheila do what he did? This is why…”).

Quotes

• [53:03] Faith: “…to be the kind of person who can do a thing like that, you have to be a level of depraved that I can never understand.”

9. Resolution: Trial and Aftermath

[55:36–56:39]

• Sean is tried for murder in 2006 and takes the stand, feigning grief and insisting the killing was an accident ([54:00], Faith: “He’s on the stand, weeping, fake—not a tear in sight…”).
• Forensic evidence supports premeditation and malicious brutality; jury deliberates just three hours before a guilty verdict ([55:36], Faith).
• Hosts note the comparatively light sentence (26 years), and celebrate that Sheila swiftly divorced Sean and testified against him ([56:07], Jessica; [56:25], Faith: “Good work, Sheila. We see you. We’re proud of you.”).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Youth Pastor Stereotypes and Grooming:
  “[00:05] Jessica: It’s not all men, but it’s always a man.”
  “[10:08] Faith: There’s a reason why the youth pastor is always some hot young guy…gotta get the kids to want to come somehow.”
• On Racial Dynamics:
  “[13:24] Jessica: So this 30-year-old white guy is grooming an emotionally vulnerable Black teenager…live in nanny and housekeeper for free.”
• Catchphrase Satire:
  “[15:23] Jessica: It’s why we say stay stupid.”
  “[51:20] Faith: So it’s literally a murder kit. He paid with his credit card...”
• Sheila’s Compliance:
  “[48:02] Jessica: Sheila is so brainwashed because she doesn’t ask any questions. She just does it because her husband told her to.”
• On Joy’s Isolation:
  “[26:58] Faith: It really put me in the moment of, like, how sad Joy must have been in this moment.”
• Detective Linda’s Genuine Annoyance:
  “[42:02] Detective Linda: I’ve been talking to people, and they were holding that back. I was like, why didn’t you tell me that?”
• On the Nature of People Like Sean:
  “[53:03] Faith: To be the kind of person who can do a thing like that, you have to be a level of depraved that I can never understand.”
• On the Resolution:
  “[55:36] Faith: It took three hours for that jury to decide that.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Early Life and Joy’s Community: 02:46–05:53
• Sean’s Grooming and Joy’s Church Involvement: 07:57–14:46
• Escalation: Grooming, Isolation, and Polygamy: 12:47–22:23
• Exposure and Fallout: 22:54–33:34
• Friend’s Wedding, Joy’s Disappearance, Sean’s Coverup: 31:33–41:12
• Police Investigation & Sheila’s Interview: 41:06–48:37
• “Murder Kit” and Discovery of Remains: 50:13–52:33
• Forensic/Trial Details & Aftermath: 52:33–56:39

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Conclusion & Takeaways

The OCO team uses their signature balance of empathy and dark wit to analyze how Joy Risker’s quest for belonging was weaponized by a trusted authority figure, exposing failures in church oversight, community protection, and systems that disproportionately endanger women of color. The episode highlights systemic manipulation, the long-term effects of grooming, and the importance of vigilant, supportive friendships (“Everyone be like Tara”—be the friend who will answer the phone no matter what).

Final Words:
“Call your friends. Tell them you need help. We won’t judge you…We love you and we miss you. Call us. We will help you.”
—[57:24], Jessica

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For listeners: This episode is a powerful, infuriating, and illuminating journey through a case emblematic of larger cultural issues, handled with clarity, compassion, and candid humor by the True Crime Obsessed team.

Transcript

[Jessica]

I know. It's not always the youth pastors.

[Faith]

It's not. What did you say the other day?

[Jessica]

It's not all men, but it's always a man.

[Faith]

Exactly. It's not always the youth pastor, but it's always a youth pastor.

[Jessica]

It's like. Can we stop with the grooming for five seconds?

[Faith]

We gotta stop letting men run organizations.

[Jessica]

I'm trying.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Hi.

[Faith]

Jillian Benzavale.

[Patrick Hines]

Hello.

[Jessica]

Patrick Hines.

[Faith]

Oh, fam. This is that thing where. This is a bonus app so we don't have to tell you about anything.

[Jessica]

This is our 17th bonus episode of the year. It's a brand new series for us.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

It's called Killer Relationship with Faith Jenkins. This is season one, episode five, Forbidden Love Brutal Death on Peacock.

[Faith]

It's very churchy.

[Jessica]

Well, Faith Jenkins, she is a lawyer. She was on MSNBC for a while. She was also the judge on Divorce Court.

[Faith]

She was.

[Jessica]

And now she does the show.

[Faith]

She was the Wapner. The later years on Divorce Court.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Faith]

Oh, Divorce Court. Not the People's Court.

[Jessica]

The People's Court. Is that always Judge Judy?

[Faith]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Judge. You don't know about Judge Wapner. Am I that.

[Jessica]

I know that. That's like a. Isn't that like a Rain man thing? Yes.

[Faith]

You gotta watch Wapner. Wapner. Whatever it is. Cause Wapner was, like, the original People's Court.

[Jessica]

What does he look like?

[Faith]

He was, like, older. He kind of looked like the guy who hosted the Price is Right. What was his name?

[Jessica]

Bob Barker.

[Faith]

Yeah, he looked kind of like Bob Barker. Am I right, fam?

[Jessica]

I gotta look up this Wapner guy.

[Faith]

Oh, God. This is the starkest moment of the age difference I've ever seen.

[Jessica]

I never could have told you what show he hosted, but I know that, like, Rain Man Wapner bit.

[Faith]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jessica]

Which we probably shouldn't be saying, but any Faith is here. I think she's a great host.

[Faith]

She is. It's very churchy. She's gonna talk about how, like, she grew up going to church. I don't know.

[Jessica]

Look, once again, I like her perspective.

[Faith]

I liked her perspective a lot. I just was kind of like, ugh, church.

[Jessica]

Well, we're gonna drag it, so.

[Faith]

Okay, good. Promise.

[Jessica]

We're not, like, actually going to church.

[Faith]

Should we go to church?

[Jessica]

But if you go to church. I'm glad you go to church. It's not this one. Literally.

[Patrick Hines]

Their forbidden love defies the church.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Sean is married to Joy and married to Sheila. He's in a polygamous.

[Patrick Hines]

And a need for total control.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Shawn was a calculated master manipulator.

[Tara]

It was like, this is my girl and I'm making her life into what I want it to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Can quickly turn into.

[Federal Ranger]

A Federal ranger starts taking the rocks apart from the shrine.

[Detective John Taft]

They believe that they in fact had a murdered person.

[Patrick Hines]

A killer relationship.

[Federal Ranger]

What kind of a person does that? A cold blooded killer does that.

[Jessica]

So let's go to San Diego in the mid-1990s.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Joy Risker is our victim. She, Faith tells us she was a young free spirit. We meet a lot of her old friends from high school.

[Faith]

We meet Laura, who's got amazing tattoos.

[Jessica]

Yeah. She knew Joy in high school. And Joy was fun and positive. I have fun written twice. So that's how fun Joy was. Super.

[Faith]

She's as fun as me.

[Jessica]

Super smart and creative. Open minded. Like a really good listener. All her friends loved her. We meet Zion Santos, who's another friend. He totally, like, co signs everything Laura says.

[Faith]

He says anyone who met her for an hour would fall in love with her. Sounds like Zion had a crush.

[Jessica]

Like, very easy to get along with Joy.

[Faith]

And we see pictures of her.

[Jessica]

Not just a clever name, like, she was awesome.

[Faith]

Exactly. She just looks like the life of the party. She's always like, I'm not saying you have to smile, but she is always smiling and happy. She's got that, like, the positivity radiates from her in photos.

[Jessica]

Radiant, for sure, you know? And at the same time, though, Joy was super open about what was going on in her life. Her father had left her family when she was like 6 or 7.

[Faith]

What is wrong with fathers?

[Jessica]

I don't know.

[Faith]

What is wrong with them?

[Jessica]

I don't know. They are men. Let's start there.

[Faith]

I know. And I hate to always have to slow it down on the piece of shit bullshit. Yeah, that's it. I know. I will always say there are some good men. I know there are some good men. We never cover them. They never come across our desk.

[Jessica]

That is the nature of the gig.

[Faith]

I know.

[Jessica]

And when we do, we point them out. When we don't always.

[Faith]

But we should be better about that.

[Jessica]

We have to do an episode of Columbo. So help me God.

[Faith]

I was just gonna say, fuck me. We don't have to point out the good men. Like I, but this guy is a piece of shit. The dad walks out. She was 6 or 7 when the dad leaves at 16 years old, she's been searching for a father figure like her whole life.

[Jessica]

So Joy was very close with her mother, Gwen. And so it's like Joy and her single mom, Gwen, against the world.

[Tara]

She was very open about not really having a lot of other family that she could even call on if she needed something. In high school, a lot of us had that similar situation. So we all kind of looked out for each other and became a nice tight knit group of friends that were more like family.

[Jessica]

She finds this, like, awesome chosen family with all of these high school friends who are still here to tell Joy's story.

[Faith]

Yeah, we learned that Laura and Joy would go to raves on the weekends. To which I say, what is the appeal? I've been dying to ask you, did you ever go to raves? You're like the right age for that.

[Jessica]

I've been to my share of places that I wanted to leave quickly. Raves are not really my thing. You got to stay hydrated.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

You got to get a buddy. You got to be safe. And you can't leave anyone where they are. But no, raves aren't necessarily my thing. Yeah, but the movie Go is great. And that's all about a rave or.

[Faith]

Getting drugs to rave. There's a guy who works in my building. His name is Justin. Hi, Justin. He goes to raves all the time.

[Jessica]

Really?

[Faith]

He, like, loves. He like travels to go to raves.

[Jessica]

Maybe I'm just in. Maybe I'm just talking out of my butt. And I don't know fully about the rave scene because people do really love it. I think you got to be really, really in or you're out.

[Faith]

It seems really loud. It's. Oh, it is very loud and crowded.

[Jessica]

Well, the point is to be like. Is for the music to totally take over the experience from what I know again, I could be, but I don't know really much of it just sounds.

[Faith]

Awful is all I'm saying. But I'm glad that Joy had fun.

[Jessica]

Well, Joy would go, but she'd also, like, try to be respectful of her relationship with her mom because Gwen was like, really churchy. Her mom, Gwen, so she always had to go to church on Sunday. So like, she kind of be aware of that. So she'd go to the raves, but, like, she'd come home early or she'd. Laura, like, I got to skip this rave to hang with my mom.

[Faith]

Church wasn't always Joy's favorite thing, but she did it for her mom.

[Jessica]

Well, because that was family and she, like, that connection really meant a lot to her. And I don't know what the dad put them through. So like, they were they were like a bonded parent.

[Faith]

It was probably awful whatever he did.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Faith]

Quince is back. I hear you got a story.

[Jessica]

Well, it just happened. I walked in and you were like, girl, cute jeans. And I was like, they're from Quince.

[Faith]

Oh, yeah.

[Jessica]

It's the true story. I'll show you the tag in the back if you want to.

[Faith]

I believe you. I mean, I've known you for 85 years. I trust you.

[Jessica]

These jeans are really cute. They're really soft. They have a little like boot cut flare at the bottom. I live in these jeans.

[Faith]

Well, listen, it's jeans weather, right? And quints is our go to for quality essentials that feel cozy, that look refined and won't blow your budget.

[Jessica]

Yeah. And this like premium denim. When I say it feels like a dream, it feels like a dream.

[Faith]

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[Jessica]

I love on their website that it says, like, here's our price, here's what it could be, here's what you could be paying.

[Faith]

Yes, it's the kind of wardrobe upgrade, fam, that feels smart, stylish and effortless. And like, is there a better time of year to like upgrade your wardrobe than the fall? It's perfect.

[Jessica]

I love the fall out. I love the fall winter outfits. Like, this is my time. So I agree.

[Faith]

And you're shining, girl.

[Jessica]

Thank you. It's because of my jeans.

[Faith]

So, fam, find your fall staples at quinn.

[Jessica]

Go to quints.com tco for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Faith]

Now available in Canada too. Hi, Canadians.

[Jessica]

Hey, girl. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com TCO to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Faith]

Quince.com TCO that's right.

[Jessica]

So one Sunday at church, Joy and her mom meet a dynamic 27 year old youth pastor named Sean Goff. To which I say, no, not the dynamic youth pastor never ends.

[Faith]

Exactly. That's the you should win screaming from your dynamic youth pastor. I know some of you are great, but then some of you are Sean.

[Jessica]

Well, in this context matters, everyone, we're talking about it on a true crime show.

[Faith]

Exactly. We're so we're talking Sean was one.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Of the Best preachers I've ever heard.

[Faith]

When I walk, I know that Jesus is walking with me. And when I speak, I know that Jesus is speaking through me.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Amen.

[Jessica]

He's just yelling.

[Faith]

I know.

[Jessica]

And that's all it always is. Yes, Mother God. Like we hear these people talk about how amazing the sermons are and then they're just yelling at you about how bad you are and how guilty you should feel.

[Faith]

Why are they not losing their voice? But I used to lose my voice all the time.

[Jessica]

I don't know. Well, you learned how to take care of it better.

[Faith]

And God, I guess is taking care of them.

[Jessica]

I guess, people. But Leif is like, oh, he's so charming.

[Faith]

I know.

[Jessica]

Good looking, he's so smart. I'm like, damn, Leif, chill.

[Faith]

I know that we don't talk about how people look, but this guy's not good looking. He's just not.

[Jessica]

It's just like Leif is still under the spell, it seems. Especially at this point in the documentary. So Jason is here. He's a church member. He's a member of both Joy, our victim, and Sean.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

And everyone needed everyone to meet Sean. Like the minute you walk in you're like, oh, you got to meet this guy. Like they're tell everyone he's like a pyramid scheme. But a person like, oh, you got to meet him and then you got to meet him. And then you got to meet him. I'm like, what the fuck?

[Faith]

Yeah, they're like, everything Sean did, he became a leader in. And like Gwen the manipulative. Right. Why don't, like, why don't people see this?

[Jessica]

Because. So Joy's mother, Gwen, really, really, really wants her teenage daughter to be in with this guy, this 27 year old guy.

[Faith]

Even more than that. Out of the party scene, like to Gwen, it's a direct correlation. Out of the party scene into the church.

[Jessica]

That's it. So Joy definitely has a crush on Sean. And so what I'm going to say is so Joy is 16, he's 27. It's not wrong for Joy to have a crush on someone. Especially when the whole thing is basically designed for teenagers to have crushes on this guy. Yeah, I am not throwing. Joy is totally innocent here. But the whole thing is like, oh my God, Sean. Even like the grown men, oh my God, Sean. The mothers, oh my God, Sean. So of course she's going to have a crush.

[Faith]

There's a reason why the youth pastor is always like some hot young guy. You know what I mean? Like you got to get the kids to want to come somehow.

[Jessica]

Well, that's it, you know? So, like, she joins the youth group to be closer to him.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Sean is the older male figure she's been looking for, apparently. I'm like, is there a woman, a lady figure? Or is it just the men leading the young, vulnerable children?

[Faith]

And it feels like it's every single time. It's like, always. I've never heard of, like, that young lady youth pastor.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Like, what's going on?

[Faith]

Well, are women not allowed to be pastors?

[Jessica]

Probably not, no. In some places, they are.

[Faith]

My mom almost became an Episcopal priest.

[Jessica]

Yeah. No. And some they are, but I don't.

[Faith]

In this Pentecostal church, it seems like.

[Jessica]

No, but this is all by design, everybody. I've done this a million times. But the thing is, everything Joy's mom wanted is now happening. So Joy joined the youth group to.

[Faith]

Get closer to Shawn.

[Patrick Hines]

In Shawn, Joy finds a strong male presence, while the youth group provides the stability she's always craved. She trades nightlife for volunteer work at the church and ends up becoming Sean's assistant.

[Jessica]

She's now working as his assistant, and the two of them are inseparable. She is 16. He's 27.

[Faith]

Let me tell you, youth groups can be fun. I was not a member of one. My sister was. She really loved it. I'm not shitting on all youth groups, but they're designed to be the alternative to, like, what the cool kids are doing.

[Jessica]

Well, Faith.

[Faith]

You know what I mean?

[Jessica]

Faith Jenkins is like, let me jump in here, if I may.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

She's like, as someone who went to church my entire life, she says, I understand the bond between the youth pastor and his congregant. She's like, I get it.

[Faith]

She calls it sacred. Like, the whole thing about that bond is that there is meant to be a trust there. This is meant to be. He's meant to be a father figure.

[Jessica]

Yes.

[Faith]

I was saying this in an episode the other day. Like parents nowadays, 50% of our energy is making sure our kids don't get molested.

[Jessica]

Sure.

[Faith]

You know, and, like, you're supposed to be able to take your kid to church and leave them with the youth.

[Jessica]

Pastor who's telling you, leave them with me. I will help put them on the right path.

[Faith]

Yes. Like, but then it's these fucking monsters who, like, learn these systems and how to abuse them.

[Jessica]

Right.

[Faith]

It's horrible.

[Jessica]

So after two years of being groomed. Excuse me, being in this youth group.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

I know. I'm so happy. Your youth group was awesome.

[Faith]

But you are correct in this instance, she was being groomed.

[Jessica]

You know what I mean? It's not all youth groups. But like this is a true crime show. So context, like she was being groomed for two years.

[Faith]

I don't think you've ever called it like a true crime show before for.

[Jessica]

But like this is. It's called killer relationship.

[Faith]

I thought you meant our show.

[Jessica]

Forbidden love, brutal death. I go, I mean, the youth group sucks. And he's straight to the point.

[Faith]

No more murdery is what they screamed in that board meeting.

[Jessica]

Like I love.

[Faith]

Yeah, that.

[Jessica]

Dear listener, if you're mad at me, your youth group was great. I love that for you.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

It's not always great. And we're talking about a time sucker.

[Faith]

And you love us, so stop being mad at us.

[Jessica]

Like, my God. So Joy has been in the youth group for two years. She's now 18.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Yes.

[Faith]

That's important.

[Jessica]

Wants to move out of her mother's house and be independent.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

She asks Shawn for advice on how to do that.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Shawn says, oh my God, I know how you can be independent.

[Patrick Hines]

Shawn offers Joy a room in the home that he shares with his wife Sheila, who's also part of the ministry. In exchange, he asks Joy to help Sheila keep up the house and babysit their newborn son.

[Jessica]

She cleans the house and takes care of their newborn son. I need to say something.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

If you have not watched this episode. Joy is black.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So this 30 year old white guy is grooming an emotionally vulnerable black teenager and he has now convinced her, like it's the best idea in the world for Joy to be their live in nanny and housekeeper for free.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

This is really, really, really fucking gross all across the board.

[Faith]

I also think too that like, it's okay to say it's inappropriate for a girl that he met when she was 16 to be living in his house.

[Jessica]

With his wife for free to be. She's black. And it's just, it's very, it's very odd.

[Faith]

No, I couldn't agree more.

[Jessica]

He's like, here's how to be more independent, work for me for free and.

[Faith]

Live in my house and be completely under my control. But also, Joy's mom is super into this idea.

[Jessica]

Thrilled.

[Faith]

Completely signs off.

[Jessica]

She's encouraging it. She thinks her daughter is finally on the right spiritual path. I looked it up. Gwen is black too.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So I, you know, like everyone else agrees. The entire church thinks this is great. For what it's worth, I'm sitting here feeling insane.

[Faith]

Well, because the youth Pastors shouldn't be fucking abusing their parishioners or whatever.

[Jessica]

And it's like the pedestal that. And that this, this society in some sects of some religion, like, put themselves on where it's like, well, that's the best place for her.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

No, it's not right. Living in his house and doing things for free, like taking care of his house for free.

[Faith]

And like for. I guess, you know, in this religion and in this particular case, it is like the closer you can get to the head guy, the closer you are to God or whatever, according to the model.

[Jessica]

And it's a. It's disgusting. And even in the most. It's a bad look to have the. Like the girl you met when she was 16 and she's black cleaning your for free. Fuck off.

[Faith]

Yes. So. But according to the church friends, everybody says she's thriving. The situation is working out great.

[Jessica]

Fine, fine. So September 1997, a year after Joy moved in.

[Faith]

This is. Sometimes men are so stupid.

[Jessica]

It's beautiful Sometimes.

[Faith]

That's exactly. It couldn't be better. When I got it is absolutely feeds you. It really, really does. When you hear, dear listener, the fucking shenanigans this idiot did. It's beautiful.

[Jessica]

It's why we say stay stupid.

[Faith]

It's why we say stay stup.

[Jessica]

Like we're living it.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And in the 90s, 1997, truly. Sean's friend Leif, the one who was like, he's so handsome, so charming. Oh my God.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Gets a really weird email from Sean.

[Faith]

This is so good. I can't say the first part of.

[Jessica]

The email is fine. It's like a normal email from hey, bro. Like, hey, bro. Like, we're both so cute and we love Jesus.

[Faith]

You still think I'm super handsome, right?

[Jessica]

Like no homo, but like, feel guilty about that. Yeah, but how great does my ass look?

[Faith]

Whatever.

[Jessica]

It's a normal email. Whatever's normal for them, it's fine. So at the bottom of the email.

[Faith]

Oh my God. However, I almost don't want you to say yet. It's so good.

[Jessica]

Do you want to just like.

[Faith]

No, you do it.

[Jessica]

Savor it.

[Faith]

I do want to savor it. For what is the dumbest thing a fucking moron idiot could do?

[Jessica]

He accidentally.

[Faith]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica]

Because that there's like the regular email. And then at the bottom of the email, it just becomes like another email. So you're reading it like, hey, church was really great today. And then it just like the sentence continues into something that doesn't make any sense.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

So Sean accidentally copied and pasted something that was never meant for anyone else.

[Faith]

To see, especially not Leaf.

[Jillian Benzavale]

He was talking how Sean was grateful that he had performed the ceremony to marry him and Joy. Sean is married to Joy and married to Sheila. He's in a polygamous relationship.

[Jessica]

And Leif is like, well, that's weird because he's already married to Sheila. Oh, no, wait a second. Like, oh my God. Yeah, like he's already married to Sheila. Oh, wait a second. Then they like cut to a commercial.

[Faith]

Break and they have to go back and tell us that polygamy is illegal in the United States. I was like, thank you, Faith.

[Jessica]

So 30 year old Sean has secretly married 19 year old Joy after grooming her for three years.

[Faith]

Wait, can I just say before that Leaf calls him out on it. Leaf is like, bro, are you married?

[Jessica]

Right. So but just to like paint the picture of why he, like 30 year old Sean has secretly married 19 year old Joy, who's still part of the church after grooming her for three years and he's still married to Sheila.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Leave. Has no chill. He calls up Sean right away. He's like, sir, how dare you?

[Faith]

I mean, I gotta say, like, Leaf makes some questionable choices, but make some good ones too.

[Jessica]

But Leaf is more like, but what's it going to do to the church?

[Faith]

What?

[Jessica]

You groomed Joy.

[Faith]

Well, but first, the idiot Sean, the pastor denies it. He's like, what are you talking about? That never happened. And Leaf is like, I'm looking at the email.

[Jessica]

And Sean's like, okay, fine.

[Faith]

Okay, fine. I totally married that girl I've been grooming for three years.

[Jessica]

So polygamy goes against Sean's church.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

And being exposed will cause him to lose everything. And I'm like, okay. And like, you clearly don't like, step one. Let's, let's forget get. I hate to say it this way, but just for this one minute, take Joy out of the equation for, for an example.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Like, you clearly don't believe in this church, so leave it.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

If you're gonna just do it, do it. Don't secretly and then on top of it, groom and eventually kill this teenager.

[Faith]

Yeah. Because Leaf is like, you can't do that. And so cult leader Sean explains to.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Leaf, he said to me, all of these great leaders in the Old Testament, such as Moses or Abraham, they were all polygamous. Sean was able to make rational and believable cases for whatever he was trying to do based on the scripture.

[Faith]

And Leif is like, you know what Sean would Actually make really good rational arguments.

[Jessica]

But he's like, everyone was a polygamist. But also, don't tell anybody or my life will be ruined.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

And I'm like, which one is it?

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

Just leave the church.

[Faith]

And, like, for Leaf, this is, like, good enough. He's like, well, Sean said that my hero Moses was a polygamist, so I guess it's fine that Sean's a polygamist.

[Jessica]

Because let me tell you, men suffer under the patriarchy, too, because we're living it. So this idiot, it is like, oh, my God, he's right. Joseph Smith and those plates. Polygamy rules.

[Faith]

I know. Polygamy is the best.

[Jessica]

Oh, my God. Again, not thinking about, like, don't look at the. The girl I groomed.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Since she was 16 years old. Don't look at. Don't look over there. Look over there.

[Faith]

And Leaf is like, so the way this works is that the wives had separate bedrooms, and Sean would just alternate between the bedrooms. And Sheila goes, how it works in.

[Jessica]

Big Love, which, again, is how I know anything about anything.

[Faith]

Fine. Sheila went along with it because she believed that the man was the head of the house, the ultimate authority.

[Jessica]

Now, I hate when people like Leaf say things like this, like, they weren't all taught the same at this church. This is the same guy who thought Sean was amazing and perfect 10 minutes.

[Faith]

Ago and, like, handsome.

[Jessica]

So Leaf is questionable because you believe that too, and that you think that's your. Your wife's job.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

You believe it too. So don't sit here and be like, well, poor Sheila was grown up to, like, what are you saying?

[Faith]

100%.

[Jessica]

You were. You were there, too, saying amen to all this bullshit. So I don't want to hear it.

[Faith]

And more to that point, like, Leaf is like, if he was outed, it.

[Tara]

Could destroy the ministry.

[Faith]

It could cost people their jobs, their livelihoods, bring disgrace upon people of faith. He just needed to end his relationship. Everything is going to be destroyed. Like, this ministry is Leaf's whole life.

[Jessica]

And I'm like, right, but this is one guy.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

You're telling me that this. This system is so weak that one guy who's a predator, who you should be ousting anyway, is going to destroy everything? Why does it all rely on his shoulders?

[Faith]

I'm just wondering if he's the only one. Like, we think, like, we're told it's a Pentecostal church, so we think there are multiple pastors, but maybe it's just him. Then would be a cult. Like, that is A cult.

[Jessica]

The whole thing should be destroyed. He's a liar and a predator. Get him out of there.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Why is everyone, like, but the Ministry? Like, no. Kick him out.

[Faith]

Exactly. Well, the only one who seems to understand that is Sean's brother. Leaf calls Sean's brother, and Sean's brother is like, this is fucked up. He calls Joy's mom, and she at least is rightfully horrified.

[Jessica]

Yeah. It takes her a while, but she gets there because she can't believe that Sean had ulterior motives.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

But she gets there.

[Detective Linda]

There.

[Jessica]

And now the shock wears off almost immediately, though, because Sean is so good at gaslighting and manipulating that he has convinced Joy's mother that this is actually a great situation for everybody.

[Faith]

And I got to say, like we were saying the other day about the unknown number, like, there is a mental health professional here. Her name is Karate, and she uses the word coercive. She says that Sean is so coercive that he's able to convince the mom that this is actually good and good for Joy.

[Jessica]

So once Joy's mother is on board, Sean feels emboldened to keep this up and has no intention.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

So Leaf tells the ministry, Leif tells the ministry, and Sean gets kicked out.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

And this woman, Tara. I don't know if you say Tara or Tara. I'm going to say Tara.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

That's wrong. I apologize. This is Joy's friend. She gets wind of this and she says to Joy, I told her, I said, joy, if you ever want out, I am here for you.

[Federal Ranger]

Joy's response was, this is what I want. This is where, you know, God wants me.

[Tara]

Me.

[Jessica]

Call me. I will get you out of there. Everyone be like Tara.

[Faith]

Yes. But Joy says back to Tara, I'm sorry. I'm happy. Like, this is what God wants for me. Like the grooming. It's grooming. It's. It's. It's what she's been led to believe.

[Jessica]

Brainwashing. Travel down the road. Back again, Girl.

[Faith]

Dose is a new sponsor. I'm obsessed with this. I'm obsessed with my liver health. This is what this is all about.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Did you know that the liver is the second largest organ in your body?

[Faith]

I did not know that.

[Jessica]

It's responsible for. For over, like, 500 things that your body does. We should be taking care of it.

[Faith]

Thank you. Liver.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

So Dose for your liver was formulated to cleanse your liver of unwanted elements, aid digestion, and maintain your body's filter.

[Faith]

Yeah. The liver acts like your body's filter, fam. Flushing out unwanted elements and breaking down what you consume into essential nutrients.

[Jessica]

Yeah. And so Dose's science backed formula promotes liver function, it aids digestion, it eases bloating, and it even boosts energy levels, which honestly, we all need.

[Faith]

Yeah. So for the critical results, we're here to tell you the science. In a double blind placebo controlled clinical, clinical trial, say that five times fast dose for your liver lowered liver enzyme levels by 50% in over 86% of the participants.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Faith]

That's wild.

[Jessica]

One dose for your liver shot is equivalent to 17 shots of turmeric juice.

[Faith]

Yeah. By the way, it's also gluten free, dairy free, sugar free and vegan. There you go. 17 shots of turmeric first thing in the morning.

[Jessica]

Not me, not me. Give me that one dose one of these.

[Faith]

Keep it moving, keep it moving. Fam. Save 30 on your first month of subscription by going to Dose Daily Dot Co, TCO or entering TCO at checkout.

[Jessica]

That's D, O, S, E, D A, I, l, y,.co/tco for 30% off your first month subscription.

[Faith]

Like 1 versus 17.

[Jessica]

I mean, it's a no brainer. No brainer. No brainer. But very much about the liver.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

So now that Joy has been, like, outed because now Sean's out of the church, his two wives are out of the church. They're all ostracized.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Which is the opposite of what Joy wanted. Joy was looking for family. She had family with her old party friends. She ditched them, but she. And that's no shade. She goes back to them because she's alone. She got kicked out, which is also a shitty thing, church. You should be there helping people in need.

[Faith]

But that's why I'm saying this is a cult. Like, they isolated her. Joy.

[Jessica]

You know what I mean? Groomed.

[Faith]

Yes. So Joy goes to spend this night with her high school friends. They're all so happy to see her. And it feels like a couple of drinks in. Joy let slip that she's in a.

[Jessica]

Polygamous marriage and they're like, wait, you met this guy where?

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And he's how old?

[Faith]

And you've been living with him for how long?

[Jessica]

And Joy's there to defend Shawn. I get it. She's like, he has a big heart. He's a good person. He's good for me. This is what God wants for me. Like, this is someone in a cult.

[Faith]

But Laura, like, her best friend from high school is like. The thing is, Joy was trying to convince us about how happy she is But I know her, and I know that she wanted, like, that one magical guy. Like, she was really looking for that thing. So, like, at the very least, Joy is settling here.

[Jessica]

And the thing is, now she's even more isolated because she doesn't have the church. And her old friends aren't, like, 100% supportive. Like, they get it, but they can't really get it.

[Faith]

What would you do if somebody, one of your friends came to you and was like, hey, on the deal, I'm super happy, but I'm in a polygamous marriage. Like, wouldn't you be like, I don't know about that.

[Jessica]

If they were someone who met the person when they're 35? Yeah, I'd say Merry Christmas. Congratulations. Let me. You know, where are you registered? But if it's someone who, like, wait, you met him when? And you did this? And I think context and circumstances matter here. If you want to be poly, fucking go for totally.

[Faith]

Polyamory or whatever is way different than this.

[Jessica]

In this situation, I'd be like, tara, say, if you feel like you're happy today, I'm happy for you. But I want you to know I will never, ever, ever judge you. My phone will be on loud from now until forever.

[Faith]

Well, because the thing that, like, the friends are maybe starting to put together a little bit, nobody is saying out loud is the grooming. That's the key ingredient.

[Jessica]

No one's saying it.

[Faith]

Nobody even is necessarily even knows about it. But that's how Joy got to the place that she at.

[Jessica]

And that's why the friends, when I say they're not, like, 100% supportive, they're happy to have Joy back, but they're not in it, so they can't fully get it. And so now, because she doesn't have the church, so she's forced to become, like, more enmeshed in this current situation.

[Faith]

Yeah. So a year later, she and Sean.

[Patrick Hines]

Welcomed their first child, a son named Stone. The family is elated by its new addition. But the next day, they receive heartbreaking news.

[Jillian Benzavale]

Joy's mother died. The day after her child was born.

[Jessica]

Joy's mom, Gwen, dies.

[Faith]

Like, what is up with that? God, but that is so fucked.

[Jessica]

It's so fucked because it's pushing her more into the arms of these cult people. Like, now she's even more. More enmeshed because now she's, like, trying to she be like, that mind of, like, being so happy to have your baby and also mourning your mother. Like, I can't imagine.

[Faith]

I was just, like, thinking about the Mechanics of, like, the potential postpartum and the, like, you know, being a new mother and being exhausted and now your mom is gone.

[Jessica]

How isolated can you get?

[Faith]

Exactly. It really put me in the moment of, like, how sad Joy must have been in this moment.

[Jessica]

So lonely.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

So lonely. And we don't know how Gwen died.

[Faith]

Yeah, that's true.

[Jessica]

I don't know if maybe she was sick for a long time or Joy felt like she wanted to tell her mom that she wasn't happy, but she couldn't, or if it was. If it was a car accident. Like, we don't know. So one year later, Joy is pregnant again.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Which to me, just does not sound very healthy. And she doesn't seem like maybe she was in a good headspace to even be, like, intimate with someone after having a baby and your mom dying and feeling isolated and, like, even if you're. You're feeling, like, happy that your family's together, you still went through a traumatic experience of being outed at this church. Like, no matter what, you. If you agree, like, outed at the.

[Faith]

Church, then kicked out of the church.

[Jessica]

So she's having a baby a year later. It just seems like a lot to be having sex and having a baby, like, well.

[Faith]

And then now we sort of get a peek behind the curtain of how her life really is, because Sean decides he's going to throw a baby shower, and he invites some of their old friends from the church. Joy, they say, is back to her old self. She's, like, happy and bubbly, but, like, they're talking about Sean being such a controlling, manipulative asshole to her in this moment.

[Jessica]

Well, Tara went. Tara was the one who's like, I don't care what time it is. Call me. So she doesn't. She doesn't support this. She doesn't want to go, but she wants eyes on the situation. She goes to see what's going on. She hates Shawn. She thinks it's weird. And she sees exactly what she thought she was gonna see. Shawn's being a nightmare, and Shawn seemed to be in rare form. Just, I'm in charge, and I'm the.

[Federal Ranger]

Boss, and look at my world.

[Jessica]

I'm the boss, he was saying. And Tara's like, it was very, look at me. Look at my world.

[Faith]

And Tara says, I avoided talking to him because I honestly did not know what I would even say to him.

[Jessica]

Right. And probably on the way out was like, joy, remember what I said?

[Faith]

Call me, anything.

[Jessica]

My phone number is the same.

[Faith]

The fingers in the eyes.

[Jessica]

My phone Is on loud. It is never on lo. It is allowed for you forever.

[Faith]

Don't.

[Jessica]

I will deal with the dings in the middle of the night. You. Great. Like, seriously, like, Tara sees this for exactly what it is. Get yourself friends like Tara. 2003. Nine months after that shitty experience, one of Joy's high school friends is getting married. Joy and Sean are invited. I'm like, not Sheila. They're not a package deal. What's the. What's the deal there?

[Faith]

What's the protocol there?

[Jessica]

I wonder if that was the friend being like, I'll invite you and your shitty husband, but I'm not inviting Sheila.

[Faith]

You can't bring the. I mean, honestly, it's like, weddings are.

[Jessica]

Expensive, but I'm surprised that Sean didn't want to parade them around. I don't know. I don't know the dynamics there, but I'm interested.

[Faith]

I think, too. Like, it's your wedding. I'm not going to have this couple, this throuple, be like, the question everybody's asking on the. Eyes on me. All right?

[Jessica]

Eyes on me.

[Faith]

Not the polygamist.

[Jessica]

The thing is, if they were, like, normal poly people.

[Faith]

Totally.

[Jessica]

You know what I mean? I'd be like, let's get on the date. Like, they would just be my friends, because everything would be fine and so.

[Faith]

Fun to have a poly couple at your wedding.

[Jessica]

Sure. Like, if it was real and not shitty and grooming and predatory. Exactly. But this is like, I don't fucking want Sheila there either. Or, like, sheila, blink twice, girl. Are you okay?

[Faith]

Oh, my. We'll get to Sheila in a minute.

[Jessica]

So Joy and Sean go to the wedding, and this is when the old friends meet Sean for the first time. And once again, Sean's a controlling nightmare, Barking orders, go get me another drink. He had a quote, commanding presence. And it's very like, oh, like, watch this. She's my girl, and she can do. She'll do whatever I want her to.

[Faith]

This is what happens when people are groomed. This is not what Joy was like in high school, Remember? Like, the sweet, bubbly, fun, positive, open to anything girl.

[Jessica]

And the mask is starting to fade. It's starting to fall. Whatever the term is. Crack. Whatever. Because Jo, she couldn't be more lonely.

[Detective Linda]

Crumble.

[Jessica]

Yeah, crumble. Fall apart. Fall into ashes. Like, she doesn't have her mother. The baby shower's awful. Like, this dynamic sucks. And she's like, you know, when you get back to basics, and you're like, these are my friends that I had when I was lonely for the first Time. Like, I'm gonna tell them again. So she starts telling her friends.

[Faith]

She did say that they were arguing more and that she had shared that.

[Jessica]

She wanted more freedom.

[Tara]

He never let her out of his sight that night. Shawn was very controlling and very much trying to dominate her.

[Jessica]

This all started cuz she was like, I want to move out of my mom's house and get freedom. And he was like, move in with me and let me be a predator or I will be not. Let me. I will be a predator to you. But she still wants freedom. She never got the freedom she desperately wanted.

[Faith]

Well, think about how trapped she is. Like, outside of the fact that this is, like, he's isolated her. This is the only world that she knows. He's now the father of her children.

[Jessica]

You know, she's trapped. So she's reaching out and asking for help. And now at the end of the wedding, everyone's saying goodbye and they're doing that thing like, let's get together soon. But her friends mean it because they want to, like, make sure she's okay.

[Faith]

And they think that she means it too. Like, they're excited to sort of like, reintegrate her back into their lives.

[Jessica]

And I think she was a 100%. She was excited. She was going to reach out, but she never does. And the calls go unanswered.

[Faith]

Well, they're calling her and they're going to the house to visit her. Like, they're trying to, like, see if she's home. They see that people are there, but she's not there. The friends are very confused.

[Jessica]

And the wedding was only a week ago. They all got super bad vibes. Joy is telling them she was unhappy now that they can't get a hold of her.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And Sean's like, oh, my God. Did she not tell you about Europe?

[Faith]

I mean, not only, right. Like, she took off to Europe with her ex boyfriend and left. Ditched me with the kids. I'm the victim.

[Jessica]

Which is a weird way for a father to talk about their kids. I'm stranded.

[Faith]

Oh, I'm babysitting. He's babysitting. Poor guy.

[Jessica]

But they're like. But he's like, oh, she's totally alive. She's just in Europe.

[Faith]

That's weird.

[Jessica]

So you guys can just go on your merry way.

[Faith]

This was the 90s, you know what I mean? Like, this was before. Like, there was datelines on every quarter 2003.

[Jessica]

But yeah, I hear what you mean.

[Faith]

You know what I mean? It's the same time frame. It's like before it was all like, like, like, I feel like these case. Like it's. So no one would fall for that now.

[Jessica]

Well, yeah, but again, even now, no one jumps to 100.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

You know, so in 2003, it was still like. Well, I wasn't that.

[Faith]

I mean, but also I was thinking too. This is pre cell phone. So I mean, 2003 is like just the beginning. It wasn't as common to be in touch as. As often.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Faith]

And it's.

[Jessica]

And it's a tricky situation because this guy's a domineering asshole.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So it's October 5, 2003. Joy's friends report her missing. But they do something that I don't understand.

[Faith]

Nobody does.

[Jessica]

And they don't. We don't get an answer for it.

[Patrick Hines]

One of the things that's so interesting about this story is that those friends don't say anything to police about her polygamous marriage. It's an important fact to leave out.

[Jessica]

I think that's a major part of the story. And they don't tell the police that.

[Faith]

We get an answer later where one of the cops says, they didn't tell me because they were afraid she'd get in trouble later.

[Jessica]

That's stupid.

[Faith]

Thinking that she's still alive and that she's going to come back and get arrested for being in a polygamous marriage or something.

[Jessica]

I'm sorry. It's no one's fault. I don't need to say that so har. But like, that is such. We have such bigger fish to fry here.

[Faith]

When your friend is missing, you give all the. You tell all the drugs they were doing, you tell all the marriages that they're. You tell them everything.

[Jessica]

Because that's not what we're here for.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

We gotta find her, you know, and they're. The friends did nothing wrong they called in the first place.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

Linda is the investigator. Oh, my God.

[Faith]

I am obsessed with this woman. She says it was her second month on the unit. She was kind of bored. Well, she's like, fell in her lap.

[Jessica]

Welcome to the big show, girl.

[Detective Linda]

This was my second month in that unit. So up to then, all my cases were pretty mundane. It was the, you know, wife that took off. Oh, she came back the next day. A great majority of missing person cases, people eventually come back. So I received the report, and first I talked to Joy's husband.

[Faith]

I feel like Linda has never given a TV interview before, ever in her life. Because she just says it exactly as she feels it.

[Jessica]

Yeah. And Deanna is here too. She's a detective.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And she is here to say, like, yeah, Sean told the cops, like, Joy bailed. She reconnected with this old boyfriend, ran away to York, stole all the money, stuck with the kids. And right on cue to the to 12:01. Exactly. The emails come in.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

From air quotes, Joy that she allegedly wrote to her friends.

[Faith]

Really long emails, Paragraphs and paragraphs, pages.

[Jessica]

And pages of poetry. The first line is literally, first of all, I want you to know that I'm safe and there is nothing for you to worry about. That's the first line of the email.

[Faith]

I feel like he read like, how do I write? Like a fake murder email.

[Jessica]

Right. How do I make it sound like the person I murdered is alive and well?

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

It goes on and on. I just had to get out of San Diego. I was bored to death with my family. I hated being a wife. She keeps saying, my choice, my decision. I did this. I had such a fire inside me. You know what? We only have one life and one shot to be happy. Also, do you remember that guy Jason that I definitely never once mentioned to anybody?

[Detective Linda]

He said Joy had reconnected with an old boyfriend and that they had exchanged emails and they had decided to backpack through Europe together.

[Jessica]

We're backpacking through Europe?

[Faith]

Totally.

[Jessica]

She's like, I'll come back eventually. Maybe I'll become a makeup artist in France then. And I quote, I can dream, can't I?

[Faith]

I mean, the funny thing about this is, Detective Linda gets access to the email so she can look into this. But she meets some friends who are like, you know what? That kind of. That does kind of sound like Joy.

[Jessica]

Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[Faith]

Home Chef is back. I gotta tell you, we are back into the swing of school, work, activities, nightmare that is life. Home Chef makes everything easy and possible.

[Jessica]

Yeah. That's why Home Chef is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and my favorite part. Recipe.

[Faith]

Yeah. Let me tell you. Home Chef makes cooking simple. And if you're anything like me, this is the hardest part of your day. Deciding what to make for dinner than actually making it. It is fresh food deliver. It's easy recipes to follow, and they're meals that your family will actually love. We gobble this stuff up. Gobble, gobble, gobble.

[Jessica]

Yeah. And your weeks are different all the time and every day is different. Home chef has over 30 meal options each week. So they have 30 minute meals. They have oven ready trays. Just throw them in the oven. They have quick microwave options, like anything you need, they have.

[Faith]

Plus you're saving a ton of money. Think about how much money you would spend ordering out or going to restaurants every night. Home Chef customers are saving an average of $86 per month on groceries. That's amazing.

[Jessica]

And on the nights when you just need something easy, which is like seemingly every night, every single night, Home Chef's five ingredient meals are perfect. You get five fresh pre portioned ingredients and dinner is done.

[Faith]

I'm not even saying this as a joke. Even I can cook them. If I can cook them, literally anybody can.

[Jessica]

Case close.

[Faith]

So fam. For a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box. Plus free dessert for life.

[Jessica]

Best part, go to home chef.com TCO.

[Faith]

That'S home chef.com TCO for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life.

[Jessica]

Homechef.com TCO and must be an active, active subscriber to receive free dessert.

[Faith]

That free dessert is so freaking good.

[Jessica]

But they're not just gonna like give it away.

[Faith]

No.

[Jessica]

Here's something that I think is really interesting. The email references what a nightmare Sean is. Now we know Sean wrote these emails.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

But like it means he knows he's a nightmare or he knows that she would be telling people he's a nightmare.

[Faith]

Yes. Like, yes.

[Jessica]

It had to be in there for this email to be believable. Think about that. That's fucking wild.

[Faith]

Yeah. It's also wild to me that anybody would read this and believe it. You know what I mean?

[Jessica]

On and on and on and on.

[Faith]

Like if I knew anybody who abandoned their children to go to Europe with it. Also just call the ex boyfriend.

[Jessica]

Oh, so I just saw you a week ago at the wedding and mentioned none of this.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

All I did was talk about how sad I was.

[Faith]

Yes, that's true. That timeline is important. It was just a week ago was.

[Jessica]

The wedding and now I'm going to be a makeup artist with my ex boyfriend no one has heard about A girl can dream. I can dream, can't I? So they track down Jason and he's like, hey, oh my God. Yes, we, I, we have texted a little bit. Yeah, no, I'm here in Massachusetts and definitely not, not backpacking.

[Faith]

And it's like, how dumb. File this in the stay stupid file. Like, how did Sean not know that this would be the cops first call?

[Jessica]

Yeah. That everyone was just gonna believe it and the cops would be like, oh, nothing to see here. Here's this five page long suspicious email with her saying 10 times how fine she is.

[Faith]

I mean, it's funny, because the worst thing that happened for Sean was the wedding. And, like, the. What could have been the best thing for her was the wedding, because it was the wedding, seems to have opened her eyes about how unhappy she was. But because she was at the wedding and she reconnected with all of her friends, now the friends are gonna be.

[Jessica]

Well, how many times do we have to hear, and she was about to leave.

[Faith]

Yes, exactly.

[Jessica]

That's what was happening.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

So they don't say it, but I'm thinking, like, well, this is the moment Sean became the main suspect. Right.

[Faith]

Well, but even Detective Linda's like, I was looking at the emails, and I gotta say, I can kind of see it both ways. Like, she seemed like she loved her kids, but she also seemed like she kind of wanted to get out of her life. I'm like, linda, somebody needs to get you some media training. Because, like, you're. You're saying too much.

[Jessica]

You're at the big show now.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

So the cops are looking at Joy's phone records, looking at the activity over the last few weeks.

[Detective Linda]

The last call that had made was to Sean.

[Patrick Hines]

That last call from Joy's phone was placed at 9:34pm on September 19, 2003, 16 days prior to her friends reporting her missing.

[Federal Ranger]

Joy's phone records completely drop off after that.

[Jessica]

The last activity from Joy's phone is September 19, 2003, at 9:34pm which is currently crazy because that's 16 days before her friends report her missing.

[Faith]

Yeah, she completely drops off the face of the planet at that point. And also, Sean, the husband, never told the cops about this call.

[Jessica]

And Faith Jenkins pops up to be like, oh, hi, Faith. In case this is your first episode of One of these Things. Anyone who watches True Crime will tell you when a cell phone goes dead, it's not good. So we'll get back to the story. But just in case. You're new here.

[Faith]

I love that Faith honestly thinks that's the name of this series is called One of these Things.

[Jessica]

Yeah. Because at this point, you. I don't know what oxygen is on. You woke up, it's four in the morning, you fell asleep to Dateline. I'm here now. Hi, I'm Faith. I was a lawyer. I'm really good at this. I have a really warm demeanor. And I'm just here to tell you if this is your first time. The dead cell phone, not good.

[Faith]

I just love the dream sequence of her being like, you fell asleep. DeAndrea. Canning, I'm here now.

[Jessica]

Hi, good morning. Hi, Faith. Welcome. I used to be divorce quarant, and I was on MSNBC sometimes, but I got the 3am to 5am slot on.

[Faith]

On your phone?

[Jessica]

Yeah, or on O or whatever. Wherever you're watching this. Hi. This is a bad sign. We'll get back to. But here's more about the story.

[Faith]

But, you know, so Sean never mentioned this last call to the cops. And thank God this is a red flag for Linda, like.

[Jessica]

Well, because the last call was to Sean, by the way.

[Faith]

Exactly. So Linda goes back to Sean, and Sean tells her, look, the weekend she left, we had a really big fight. I actually stormed out. She called me to come back so that we could talk about it.

[Detective Linda]

So he came back, they went to bed, and then the next morning, he, he woke up and he saw Joy leaving with two suitcases and getting into a car and driving off.

[Jessica]

He watched her leave alive and well.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Now, he didn't tell the cops this earlier. Major red flag.

[Faith]

Linda is baffled. Like, Linda's reaction to them not tell to him not telling her is hilarious.

[Jessica]

Also, where's Sheila? Where's your other wife?

[Faith]

Good question.

[Jessica]

So finally, Joy's friends tell the cops about Sheila. And this is, this is when Linda, thank God. She's like, seriously, this is the best.

[Faith]

It's so good this time.

[Detective Linda]

I've been talking to people, and they were holding that back. I was like, why didn't you tell me that?

[Jessica]

We've been talking to you guys for weeks. Why didn't you tell us that?

[Faith]

I know. She's like, I'm gonna have to go back through all of this stuff all over again.

[Jessica]

But I'm like, finally someone giving us a little whiff of the proper annoyance.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Like, that is annoying for the friend. And now it's like, wait, I could have been at. I could have got to Sheila's job a week ago.

[Faith]

Annoying is such a good word in this context because she look so genuinely annoyed.

[Jessica]

It's a great. She gets a. We get a mini eye roll from her. It's great.

[Faith]

Yes. It's really good.

[Jessica]

It's great. So they look over all the case information again, this time with the knowledge of Sheila, the other wife.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So Linda pops in on Sheila at work. On and out she goes. It's always best to do a little surprise.

[Faith]

I love you, Linda. I, I, I want to see your training video, Linda.

[Jessica]

She's feeling it.

[Faith]

You are. She's. And she's not bored anymore.

[Jessica]

She's into it now.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And Sheila doesn't say much, but she does say that the weekend that Joy disappeared, Sheila went to Santa Barbara with the. And when Linda's like, why?

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

She goes, well, Sean wanted a special weekend with Joy all alone.

[Faith]

Now, I will also say that Linda says Sheila was surprised to find out that Joy's leaving was being looked into.

[Jessica]

Because when Sheila came back, Sean's got a whole story. As they say in Mad Men. Sean said, oh, Joy left during this weekend that I asked you to go away and take the kids and leave me alone with Joy. We decided we were having problems, and we fought, and Joy left. And so this sort of, like, made sense to Sheila. Thanks. Patriarchy.

[Faith]

Yeah. And, I mean, we're gonna learn, too, that, like, Sheila, I think, in her marriage, has learned not to ask questions. You don't question the man.

[Jessica]

This is what I mean.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

So she's like, this is what I was told. Even if in the deepest, darkest corner of her mind, she knows the truth in this moment, she's like, he asked me to leave. I took the kids. This is what I know. I'm telling you what I know.

[Faith]

Yeah. And so Detective Linda called. Sean was like, girl, like, I'm coming over tomorrow. We need to talk about this. Shawn's like, great, no problem. Except next morning, Sean turns himself in at the police station.

[Jessica]

He's really feeling the pressure.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

He shows up alone, without a lawyer. All right, let's go.

[Faith]

I know.

[Jessica]

Cracking their knuckles, getting some stretches in.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So John Taft enters the chat. He's a veteran cop. He's going to question this piece of shit.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Now suddenly, Sean has a very different.

[Faith]

Story now that he's being questioned by a man.

[Jessica]

But now that he walked in his own self, he walked in without a lawyer. Now he's got a different story because he knows Linda's sniffing around. He spent all night coming up with this load of bullshit.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

He says.

[Faith]

I love that. That he's so ne. He's got to get there as, like, the minute they open so he can make a statement.

[Jessica]

Linda's onto him.

[Faith]

Yes. Yes.

[Jessica]

And he knows it. So now the story has changed, because, remember, the story was, oh, we had a fight. She was going to leave anyway. Europe with the boyfriend, the emails, blah, blah, blah.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Detective John Taft]

He then told me that there was an accident and that she was killed. When I then used the word murder, he then corrected me and said, no, she was killed.

[Jessica]

No, no, no, no, no, no, says Sean. No, no, no. Not murder. Killed.

[Faith]

So, okay. It took me a minute to understand what was Going on here. He's literally saying, she died at my hands. But it was an accident.

[Jessica]

It was an accident. Either way, I. I hear confession. Exactly right. So these two kind of go back and forth for a while because John the cop is like, I know what he knows that I know that he knows. Like, they're kind of doing this little dance and the cop keeps pressing him for details and final. Finally, Sean's like, oh, I should get a lawyer, huh? After he confessed and said that Joy died at his hands.

[Faith]

Right.

[Jessica]

So he says the magic word, lawyer. And John Taft is like, so we ended the interview and arrested him for murder and we put him in jail. And I was like, I just thought it was so funny because usually it's like we ended the interview period, but him so casually being like, oh, we had 72 hour hold. Like, he asked for a lawyer, we still threw him in the clink.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Because it's a partial confession, they call it. I hear full confession, but legally it's partial. So they can hold him for 72 hours. The race is on.

[Faith]

The race is on. So they got to go to the house to gather more evidence. They quote, sit down with his other wife. I love it.

[Jessica]

Which, as for a first wife, I know from Big love. Yeah, first wife is very important. Oh, if you're the first wife, that is a badge of honor that you wear. Oh, that's Barbara.

[Faith]

Do you rule or are you nice to the other wives?

[Jessica]

Well, Nikki. Chloe Savigny calls her boss lady, and Barb's always like, nikki, stop calling me. So the hierarchy is like, first wife is first wife.

[Faith]

Okay.

[Jessica]

If we're doing this, it's first wife or nothing.

[Faith]

Okay, great. So you have very first wife energy.

[Jessica]

Really?

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

I think I'd be a good first wife.

[Faith]

You'd be a great because you'd be nice to the other wives.

[Jessica]

That's what I mean. I would be like, I don't want to be in charge of the schedule. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm cool.

[Faith]

Totally.

[Jessica]

I would be a good first wife. If I was into that kind of thing. I think I'd be a good one. But anyway, it's to me just because again, my only knowledge is Big Love and other documentaries that I've read. But to call her the other wife.

[Faith]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's some shit.

[Jessica]

That's a dig.

[Faith]

Yeah. Well, Sheila's story to the cops is that Sean called her. She was watching all three kids by herself in Santa Barbara. What a fucking nightmare. Sean tells her Joy wants to move On. She won't be here when you get back. Neither will I, because I'm going to assist her with her moving on. That does not sound like Sean.

[Jessica]

Oh, by the way, when you get home.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Sheila with the three kids.

[Detective John Taft]

And when you get home, there was an accident. We had a little minor accident. It wasn't a big deal.

[Federal Ranger]

You said when Joy left, she got injured and there might be some blood in the room. Can you go home and clean up the mess?

[Jessica]

There was a little accident because in the process of very happily helping Joy pack for Europe to leave on her.

[Faith]

Own accord, which, by the way, is totally in character for me, I'm definitely the kind of man that's going to help my wife pack for a trip.

[Jessica]

Yeah, there was an accident. You don't get any details on the accident. No, no, no. All you know is that there's blood. And guess what? It's going to be your job to clean it up when you have to deal with the three cases.

[Faith]

Blood everywhere but you. Everyone's fine. She's moving on. I'm helping her just clean it up and ask no questions with the kids. To which Sheila literally says, yep, yep. No question.

[Jessica]

Sheila is so brainwashed because she doesn't ask any questions. She just does it because her husband told her to.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So the cops check out her story. Sheila was 100% in Santa Barbara. She did what she was told.

[Faith]

She has no idea.

[Jessica]

So in other words, the story that she told them is insane, but it's true.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

That's how brainwashed she is.

[Faith]

I also like that Detective Sean pointed out how candid Sheila was in the interview. And I'm thinking, in her mind, she's like, I get to get rid of this son of a bitch. I can help get this guy out of my life forever. What else?

[Jessica]

You want to know what else? But that's the thing that hit me where it's like everything she told them was true. It's insane.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

But Sean called, said that ridiculous thing. She said, okay, she cleaned up the blood. She did it all.

[Faith]

She is so brainwashed that in her mind, she knows she's cleaning up a murder scene. She has to know that I know that she wasn't involved in any way and didn't know ahead of time. But, like, when you're cleaning blood off the walls and the kitchen floor, you're cleaning.

[Jessica]

Cleaning up a murder scene for the greater good.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

Whatever that means.

[Faith]

The greater good is survival for her, I would imagine. You know what I mean?

[Jessica]

Or whatever she's telling her and their kids.

[Faith]

And. Yes, sure.

[Jessica]

So Sheila lets the cop search the house. She's like, come on in, please. Here's the bleach I used. Here's the whatever. Here's the receipt from the murder aisle. Like, whatever.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

But this is the jackpot, because there's blood everywhere. We know. From the luminol and the black light, because Sheila cleaned it. But they collect the computer, and they find evidence that Sean wrote and sent all those bullshit emails. Of course he did.

[Faith]

What a fucking moron. Go to an Internet cafe. It's 2003.

[Jessica]

Oh, my. Go. So there's enough to charge Shawn with the murder of Joy Risker.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

But Shawn isn't talking, and we don't have Joy's body. And so Faith Jenkins is back to be like, hi, me again.

[Faith]

Oh, hey. I know you made it think I was Andrea Canning, but who are you?

[Jessica]

Yeah, not Josh Manx. Not today.

[Tara]

No, no, no, no.

[Faith]

Not today.

[Jessica]

But I'm nice, and this is a good show. So she's like, I would pay a.

[Faith]

Million dollars to actually get that interlude.

[Jessica]

Yeah, but I'm nice, and this is.

[Faith]

A good show because she.

[Jessica]

Because she's always like, here's my experience. So she's like, I went to church all the time. Like, this connection is real.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

She's here to say, like, hey, I was a prosecutor, so I'm here to tell you that this sucks.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Like, it makes it really hard to get a conviction at trial because Sean's not talking. We don't have a body. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Be right back.

[Faith]

Yeah. Yeah. And I love it. I do love, too, because this is the early 2000s. Like, they're telling us things like, we haven't been doing this for 25 years.

[Jessica]

It's always someone's first episode.

[Faith]

Well, that's true, but they say they track Sean's credit card statements.

[Federal Ranger]

We found out that he made a purchase at a hardware store. A hacksaw, a shovel, an ice pick, a sledgehammer, a tarp.

[Faith]

I'm not kidding. You should not be able to buy all those things at once. Or if you do, there should be.

[Jessica]

Some sort of an alert, like a permit.

[Faith]

I mean, it just seems like common sense, like, that you only need all that shit to kill and hide a body.

[Jessica]

Like, if you think about building a house, right. You need a permit for the land and a permit to build the house. Everything. Alert. Lot of the things you need to build a house are murder things.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

It's the Dexter special. So if you're going to get A permit for building the house. Maybe you need the permit for, like, the hammer and the tarp to prove that, like, this is related to the permit for the house.

[Faith]

I'm going to say three or more of these items together, like zip tie, duct tape, trash bags, tarp, bleach.

[Jessica]

Dexter bought it all separately, if I recall. He would just be like, oh, I should go get whatever. He ran out of zip ties. He went to get the zip ties. So he's not buying the zip ties.

[Faith]

And the plastic together, but these people are so stupid.

[Jessica]

You.

[Faith]

So it's literally a murder kit. He paid with his credit card. He didn't even pay cash.

[Jessica]

No. You know, and we can't locate any of those items now, meaning he bought them knowing he was going to kill Joy. And wherever Joy is, those items probably are.

[Faith]

They also learned that he rented a car when Joy went missing, drove it exactly 800 miles, which means that the body is somewhere within 400 miles of San Diego. But that also gives them a half a million mile radius.

[Jessica]

Right. Which is devastating for her friends and family because they're like, oh, wow, this is horrible. But we also have so many details that are also leading us just 400 miles in what direction?

[Faith]

But also, like, devastating for the case, potentially, because without a body, like, you can't prove that she didn't just run off to be away from her kids.

[Jessica]

Three months later, 2004, two hikers, they.

[Detective John Taft]

Saw this little debris of rocks, like a little makeshift grave.

[Federal Ranger]

A federal ranger comes out, and he starts taking the rocks apart from the shrine, and he notices an arm.

[Jessica]

Two hikers find Joy's remains in Arizona almost exactly 400 miles away from San Diego. Almost as if this piece of shit drove in a straight line and stopped when he hit 400 miles.

[Faith]

And it's like, this is how sick this guy is. The bones and the face were crushed. The upper and lower jaw were missing, and the fingers were gone. So he thinks he's not going to get caught because there's no fingerprints and no dental records. But that means that he brutally and ghoulishly dismembered her body. And I was thinking about just to set aside the sadness of that for a second, to be the kind of person who can do a thing like that, right, you have to be a level of depraved that I can never understand.

[Jessica]

He was a youth pastor, this man. He had this in him.

[Faith]

Was entrusted with your children. He dismembered this. Yes.

[Jessica]

People, Kids were encouraged. If you need help.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

If you need direction, if you're vulnerable. Go to him. And this is what he did.

[Faith]

And he. He's the father of three children. I mean, the level of depravity, it never ceases to amaze me.

[Jessica]

So when you think, why the fuck would Sheila do what he did? This is why. Because all of those little things. Hey, get me another drink. Hey, do this. Yes, that comes out. And when you see the darkness in someone's eyes, Sheila knows.

[Faith]

Yep.

[Jessica]

She's got to do it.

[Faith]

So Joy is identified through DNA, thank God.

[Jessica]

And now it's 2006. The killer's on trial, and the son of a bitch testifies. I'm like, my God, tear this dude apart. Are you kidding?

[Faith]

They don't even make a big deal out of it. Like, we don't have a lot of time left. So they're like, let's just.

[Jessica]

But I'm like, where's my Faith Jenkins Poppin. To be like, as a former prosecutor, this is.

[Faith]

Never happens.

[Jessica]

Yeah, this sucks for him. It's great for us.

[Faith]

He's on the stand, weeping, fake.

[Jessica]

Not a tear in sight. By the way, Scrunch crying. Remember we learned about scrunch crying, talking.

[Faith]

About how this was all an accident, and the reason he didn't call the police was because he knew if he called the cops, they would decide that he did it and he would lose his kids forever.

[Jessica]

But what happens is he blames Joy and stabs her and then accidentally stabs her again.

[Faith]

Exactly.

[Jessica]

And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[Faith]

It doesn't make. These stories will never make any sense.

[Jessica]

Invisible tears. So the cops tell us what they think happened, that Joy really was going to leave, which makes sense, given what she said to her friends and given the stats. It's the most dangerous time.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

Sean convinced her to go to dinner with him to let her guard. Get her guard down, probably, or convince her or whatever. Make her feel a little safe because they're in a public place when they get home. He attacked her with a knife. The forensics show all of this.

[Faith]

And chased her around the house. There's blood on the walls in every room.

[Jessica]

He killed her, took her into the bathroom and dismembered her.

[Detective John Taft]

He then took these various parts of her body. And then he traveled from San Diego to Phoenix. And he would stop periodically behind, like, dumpsters and dump the various parts and continue moving east until he had basically her torso left.

[Faith]

So he dismembered her in the bathtub and then would stop along the highway and put parts of her body in Dumpsters all along his.

[Jessica]

400 miles, like, the most identifiable parts, thinking that she wouldn't be able to. To be identified. So, like, teeth in one place, fingers, you know? Then drove her to the desert in Arizona, buried her there, came home, and then wrote the fake emails as Joy.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So he is guilty of the murder of Joy Risker.

[Faith]

It took three hours for that jury to decide that.

[Jessica]

Two seconds. They were too long.

[Faith]

We're just going to sit here for two hours and 59 minutes.

[Jessica]

I want you to walk in, just do one of those, right?

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

And that's it.

[Faith]

I just need a chili and slime.

[Jessica]

Like Applebee's.

[Faith]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jessica]

Like, we. What we need to decompress threat. Like, what are you talking about? We're out.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

So some updates real quick. He got 26 years in prison, which is, again, is like, nothing. But he was denied parole in 2024. Thank God, for three more years. So in a few years, we'll, I guess, get an update on why only 20.

[Faith]

Why not 25 to life? It was premeditated. Like, what is going on here?

[Jessica]

We don't get any of those details, but I did Google Sheila because I was hoping that they were divorced.

[Faith]

Are they not?

[Jessica]

I have great news for you, though. She divorced him right away. She testified against him at the trial.

[Faith]

Yes.

[Detective Linda]

Right.

[Jessica]

Isn't that so good?

[Faith]

Yes.

[Jessica]

I was really happy to hear that. She, like, she got. She was able to get out of it, get away from him. Maybe Tara helped. I don't know. That friend Tara, that was like, call me anytime something happened. But she testified she was a witness for the prosecution at trial. Divorced him almost immediately.

[Faith]

Good work, Sheila. We see you. We're proud of you.

[Jessica]

Seriously? I thought that was really big news.

[Faith]

Yeah. Oh, my God, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Jessica]

This is.

[Faith]

It's very long title.

[Jessica]

Yes. Why do I have this? Oh, sorry. I had an old copy and paste from the top of this.

[Faith]

You just did what the pastor did.

[Jessica]

I don't.

[Faith]

I don't know. Are you double. Are you a polygamist, or am I gonna. Is this how I'm gonna find out?

[Jessica]

You know what it was? It was the mental health specialist name all the way at the bottom of the stage.

[Faith]

Oh, my God.

[Jessica]

There she is.

[Faith]

You're gonna flip it around, and it's gonna be like, dear John, thank you for marrying me. And Stan, like, what?

[Jessica]

So this is a new series. Killer rel. A new series for us. Killer relationship with Faith Jenkins. I think it's great. I think we should find more of them.

[Faith]

Yeah.

[Jessica]

So there you go.

[Faith]

All right. Well, that's it. We love you, fam. Thanks for hanging out.

[Jessica]

Oh, my God. Stay safe out there. Call your friends. Tell them you need help. We won't judge you. I say this all the time. We love you and we miss you. Call us. We will help you.

[Faith]

Please, please, please.

[Jessica]

We will help you.

[Faith]

All right. We love you. Goodbye.

[Jessica]

Okay, we love you. Bye. Bye, Faith. Welcome.

[Faith]

Bye, Faith. We love. Welcome to our show. I love your Faith impression. That's got to keep going.

[Jessica]

Hi, it's me.

[Faith]

I know you fell asleep watching Daylight. I'm here now.

[Jessica]

Hey, Jess. As a former prosecutor, just a quick heads up.

[Faith]

Oh, okay.