468: The Perfect Neighbor

Summary

True Crime Obsessed Episode 468: "The Perfect Neighbor" (November 11, 2025)

Podcast Recap & Summary

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Overview

In this powerful and emotionally charged episode, hosts Patrick Hinds and Julia Bettivali recap and react to Netflix’s documentary “The Perfect Neighbor.” Using humor, empathy, and pointed analysis, they break down the story of Ajika Owens, a Black mother shot and killed by her white neighbor, Susan Lawrence, after two years of escalating harassment in a Florida neighborhood. With their characteristic blend of sass and social awareness, the hosts examine the racial tensions, policing, community dynamics, and Stand Your Ground laws that defined and ultimately doomed the case. The episode is both a tribute to Ajika’s legacy and a searing critique of the systems that enable violence and injustice.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

The Documentary’s Format & Impact

• [03:04] Unprecedented Approach: The doc uses only police bodycam and audio—no interviews, no lower thirds. The hosts call it "groundbreaking" and “inventing a new way to make documentary.” It’s immersive, immediate, and unfiltered.
• [03:38, 60:11] Ethics & Trauma: Julia highlights discomfort at seeing children’s trauma on screen, questioning the limits of documentary storytelling:

  "There are moments that I'm like—this is the worst moment of this eight year old's life and I don't know that I'd want that." – Julia ([03:38])

• [60:51] A Demand for White Audiences: Patrick and Julia agree that the doc is “required viewing for white people.” The unvarnished pain and impact should be hard to watch:

  "What we're feeling is why this was made ... you should hate this." – Patrick ([60:51])

Neighborhood Background & Tension

• [05:09] Setting: A tight-knit, multicultural, predominantly renting neighborhood where residents watch each other’s kids—“it takes a village.”

  “All of the parents watched out for all the other kids... we were like a little roving family.” – Patrick ([06:12])

• [04:51] The Antagonist: Susan Lawrence, newly arrived, quickly becomes the block’s nemesis—obsessing over property lines, calling police incessantly, and ramping up micro-aggressions toward the mostly Black and brown children playing outside.

Escalation, Racism & Microaggressions

• [19:44-20:20] Microaggressions Evolve to Open Racism: Susan’s complaints about noise and “those kids” thinly veil her bigotry, and in time, she uses racial slurs and explicit threats.

  “She's riddled with microaggressions against Black people—eventually, full-on racist.” – Patrick ([19:44])

• [43:40] Witness Accounts: Body cam and neighbor testimony reveal Susan called children “slaves,” referenced the “Underground Railroad,” and used the N-word and R-word without remorse.

Law Enforcement's Response & Systemic Failings

• [14:20-16:26, 45:13-47:10] Police Indifference & White Privilege:
  • Despite recognizing Susan is “the problem,” police treat her as a harmless crank, failing to take her aggression or community impact seriously.

  "Her white privilege is showing. I think it's her age. They think she's the harmless old crank." – Patrick ([45:41])

  • Julia notes that in a Stand Your Ground state, this is a fatal mistake.
• [30:34] Community Self-Policing: Black parents, particularly Ajika, feel unsafe calling cops:

  “Ajika can't be the one who calls the cops ... she's just trying to not give them a reason.” – Patrick ([14:20])

The Tragedy: Murder of Ajika Owens

• [54:01-57:07] Escalation & The Shooting:
  • Susan steals 11-year-old Izzy’s iPad, throws a roller skate at him, and yells at the kids to “get your mother.” When Ajika comes to the door to retrieve her child’s property, Susan, after calling 911 to plant a narrative, shoots through her locked door, killing Ajika.
  • The hosts see this as premeditated, the culmination of two years of racially charged baiting and instigation:

    "Susan forced a situation where Ajika was angry and went over there where Susan can claim it’s self-defense...” – Patrick ([57:25])

Notable Quotes

• On the double standard:

  “If it was one of us, we'd be in custody.” – Unnamed Black neighbor ([69:11])

• On the moment of tragedy:

  “You created this dynamic, you crazy racist bitch.” – Patrick ([53:25])

Aftermath, Justice & Systemic Reflection

• [64:06-65:43] Legal Proceedings: Despite immediate detention, Susan isn't promptly arrested due to Stand Your Ground, feeding community outrage. The interrogation exposes her shifting lies, lack of remorse, and racist worldview.

  • Her rationale is full of holes—timeline doesn’t fit her self-defense narrative; she clearly baited Ajika.

• [78:06] Police to Susan:

  “You want to know what I saw? I saw four kids that no longer have a mother. You knew deputies were on the way, and you knew you needed to kill her before they got there.” — Detective ([78:06])

• [84:00] Stand Your Ground Law Impact: On-screen text shares stark data:

  “Stand your ground laws have been linked to an 8-11% increase in homicide rates ... white Americans more likely to find success with self-defense claims, particularly when they kill Black people.”

• [84:53] Trial Outcome: As credits roll, Susan is found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to 25 years. The judgment clarifies the shooting was out of anger—not fear.

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Notable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• [06:12] Neighborhood Love:

  “...it was like that in my neighborhood too. All the parents watched out for all the other kids. Like, my mom could go to the grocery store without even telling the neighbor.” – Patrick

• [16:14] Empathy Across Difference:

  “Ajika ends up apologizing to the cops. And this is when the Black woman cop is like, I understand exactly how you feel... these two women understand each other...” – Patrick

• [22:47] Susan’s Outright Hostility:

  “I called the kids—the R word. And then the mother comes screaming at me, ‘Don’t call my [kids]...’” – Susan (quoted by hosts)

• [43:44] Indictment of Susan’s Worldview:

  “She's a hateful, miserable bitch and she's a waste of life.” – Patrick

• [71:02] Confronting Cop Indifference:

  “Make your life easier? Are you fucking kidding me?” – Julia

• [78:06] Cop’s Final Assessment:

  “You want to know what I saw? I saw four kids that no longer have a mother.” — Detective

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Key Episode Sections & Timestamps

• [00:00-03:38] — Podcast opening, Discord/YouTube community chatter
• [03:38-08:59] — Documentary’s style, family’s involvement, ethical questions
• [09:04-16:26] — Introduction of Susan Lawrence, neighborhood dynamics
• [16:26-24:56] — Early encounters with police, discussion of racial dynamics and microaggressions
• [24:56-32:36] — Susan’s escalation, community’s attempts at peace, police indifference
• [43:40-51:10] — Susan’s overt racism, history of abuse, and gun warnings
• [53:09-56:28] — Shooting incident begins: escalation, call to mother, murder
• [57:07-63:42] — Aftermath: children’s trauma, parental grief, reflection on showing children’s suffering
• [64:06-77:44] — Interrogation, Stand Your Ground, Susan’s unraveling story, police tactics
• [77:44-85:49] — Trial condensed into credits, conviction, final takeaways
• [85:50-end] — Postscript: standinginthegapfund.org, next episode preview

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Memorable Moments & Tone

The episode balances passionate frustration, gallows humor, and moral urgency. The hosts’ banter veers between righteous anger at Susan and the system, heartfelt empathy for Ajika’s family, and incredulous jokes about Susan’s lies ("doctor of bullshit" [25:26]; “good gravy” as her guilt ‘tell’ [73:44]).

Julia’s debate over the ethics of showing child trauma ("I don't know how I feel about that" [59:20]) is handled with respect and honesty, modeling responsible true crime engagement. Patrick's references to Emmett Till and systemic injustice keep the focus on societal context.

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Conclusion & Calls to Action

The hosts urge listeners—especially white audiences—to sit with discomfort and acknowledge the ongoing reality of racist violence and legal indifference:

"We need to watch it, we need to see it, we need to look at it. All white people sit with the uncomfortability. It's required viewing." – Julia ([87:24])

They end by promoting standinginthegapfund.org, supporting families impacted by racial violence, and tease their next historical case, "What Happened to Karen Silkwood: The Lost Tapes."

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Donation Link

Standing in the Gap Fund: standinginthegapfund.org
A family-led fund responding to race-based violence, supporting Ajika’s children and others.

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Episode Takeaways

• "The Perfect Neighbor" is both a case study in neighborly horror and a critique of broader American systems of white privilege, policing, and Stand Your Ground laws.
• The documentary’s immersive bodycam format and the podcast hosts’ honest, humane, and often infuriated discussion lay bare the devastation that unchecked racism and legal loopholes continue to inflict.
• Listeners are left with a trenchant call for empathy, vigilance, and active participation in demanding justice and change.

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If you listen only to one segment:

• The final interrogation and the cop’s confrontation with Susan ([77:00–78:34])—"You want to know what I saw? I saw four kids that no longer have a mother..."—delivers the episode’s emotional core.

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For more on this story or to support Ajika Owens’ family, visit standinginthegapfund.org.

Transcript

[A]

I am exhausted at the idea of talking about this.

[B]

Here's the thing. We gotta do it. And, like, this is the whole point. It's be exhausted and uncomfortable and hate it. Like, required viewing for white people 100. If you hate it, that's the point. Deal with it.

[A]

I know. All right, I will.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Hi. Julia Bettivali.

[B]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[A]

Hey, fam. Are you on the discy? I'm not really. But you are. Tell me about it.

[B]

I am on the disci. We have a Discord channel. It's awesome. Or a Discord or. Yeah, I think it's a server. And then we have channels within it.

[A]

We've got a Discord situation.

[B]

Yeah, we are. We absolutely have a Discord situation. It is very fun. Everyone in there is lovely. It's really cool. We have, like, a TCO suggestions channel. And I always, like, pop in and tell you what we're recording today.

[A]

Let me tell you, if you want to find gp, this is the one thing I hear on the road all the time. They just want you more. Go to the Discord because, like, that's where she's the queen.

[B]

We're hanging out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're having so much fun. And Sasha and Tanya and, like, we're like a whole crew.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Also, fam. We're at almost 140,000 subscribers. Subscribers on YouTube. Isn't that cool? We just got our 100,000 plaque, and we're gonna get 200,000, like, by. By Christmas.

[B]

That is insane.

[A]

And you guys are amazing. We love you. Thank you. I love watching it there. It is so much fun. We're having so much fun. I sometimes will be like, I'm just gonna look at it for two minutes. It's like 40 minutes later.

[B]

And then you watch this episode. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's such a.

[B]

You're like, oh, my God, what's gonna happen next?

[A]

What is. But what is gonna happen?

[B]

But what is.

[A]

It's true. Crime obsessed on YouTube. Go subscribe. Even if you're not gonna watch. Just do it for me.

[B]

Yeah, Please.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah, we have fun.

[A]

What are we talking about today? Speaking of having fun, what are we talking about today?

[B]

Oh, God. This is the perfect neighbor on Netflix. Highly requested. We had a long conversation about it. We are doing it. We moved the calendar, so here we go.

[A]

Yeah. Sheriff's office, iPhone. Because the kids come across the street.

[B]

They shouldn't be screaming and running around. Okay.

[A]

All the kids like to play.

[B]

She wants them.

[A]

They can't walk or even throw their football over here. 911.

[B]

What is the address of the emergency?

[A]

Several kids out there right now are sweet and yelling. Now, I don't. That lady over there probably call. Oh, I know. It's like the kids. She thinks we're trying to steal her truck. You even know how to drive?

[B]

We're 11.

[A]

The police. There's no trespassing.

[B]

I'm not always working above you.

[A]

There doesn't need to be a call for service every time the kids are playing in the yard. She's always messing with people's kids. Sheriff's Office. 91 1. What is the address? Emergency. My neighbor has been screaming outside. She started banging on her door, pounding on it. Let me in. And then bang.

[B]

I just have like a quick note at the top. We get odd screen text that says, this film is primarily composed of police body cam footage recorded over the course of two years. This is like groundbreaking. There's no other way to put it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I know there's been a convers about, like, the ethics of watching this. Ajika's family is fully behind this documentary.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So her.

[A]

I mean, there are children who are not old enough to consent to that. So I will. Like, there's one moment where I'm like, I'm not sure we should be seeing this.

[B]

Sure. And I think that's the point that it should feel like I can't believe I'm watching this. But her close friends brought this story to the filmmakers. Her mother, Pamela Diaz, is actually doing press with interviews and stuff.

[A]

So I will go with whatever the family decides. I just. There are moments that I'm like. Like I've gotten shit on this podcast for talking about Daisy before she's old enough to tell me that it's okay to do that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So I just had that thought in my head in. In one certain moment where I'm like, yeah, this is the worst moment of this eight year old's life. And I don't know that I'd want that. My dad saying it's okay to do that. But I will go with whatever the family has to do.

[B]

Yeah. Like, and I actually watched a great interview from the Film at Lincoln Center YouTube channel. It's Ajika's family. And so they're talking about why they wanted this out there. Please, please, please, please, please take care.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When watching this, that said white people. This is required.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In my opinion.

[A]

So we get the cold open, which we usually skip over, but I'm going to mention it here. Just back to it. Sure. We open with the cops pulling into like a neighborhood late at night. Someone has been shot and we don't know who it is.

[B]

Right. And then like we see that chaos and I'm like, oh, this is going to be really bad. So then we hear the cops speaking to the neighbors. We don't see it, we just hear it.

[A]

Yeah. There's a lot of. So like, this is a really. You and I were talking about before. This is a really interesting style where there's no talking heads, there's no lower thirds. It's all body cam. It's really, really good. They also, like, they will do voiceover of like things that have been recorded and they're not showing the video of it. It's very effective. There' couple of moments of. I'm not exactly sure what day we're at or whatever.

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

But I think that's fine. I think like, if we're doing a new. If we're in literally inventing a new way to make documentary here, I'm on board.

[B]

I think it's excellent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So here's what we gather in these conversations. There's a woman in the neighborhood who hates all the kids. This is a very kid heavy block.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There are a lot of families, a lot of kids. The kids are always outside playing. This woman hates them. She's been there for about two years. She's been a nightmare since day one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's at the center of every problem. Everyone on the block has had a problem with her at least once, but she is the issue.

[A]

Can I wanted to talk about this just for a minute and I won't be insufferable about this. This is the neighborhood I grew up in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Not literally, but like, I don't know if this is low income housing or not. I grew up in low income housing and all of the houses were on top of each other. There was a hundred kids out playing all day every single day, yelling, screaming, laughing. All of us got along. All of the parents sort of watched all the other. I felt very, very, very close to this neighborhood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because this is very mult, like cultural. White kids, brown kids, black kids. Like, these kids are such good kids. They are like the best. These are some of the most respectful kids I've seen in a documentary in a long time.

[B]

And they stay close to home because it's all on the same street, on everyone's lawn. And at one point, one of the. When we see the cops come to this block, they ask like, whose are yours? And the woman goes, oh, they're all mine. And you're like, oh.

[A]

And there's this one moment where one of the ladies is like, well, none of the, none of these kids are mine. Like her kids are inside.

[B]

But they're all mine.

[A]

But they're all mine. And it's like it was like that in my neighborhood too. All of the parents watched out for all the other kids. Kids like my mom could go to the grocery store without even telling the neighbor. Cuz the neighbor's out on the front yard.

[B]

This is the village they talk about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's, you know, it takes a village. This is what they mean.

[A]

And I, I got to say it like once again, I don't know if this is low income housing. It feels like it to me. Just cuz that's the vibe I grew up in. And it feels like exactly like what I. There's something about kids growing up in low income housing that bonds you. Like in my situation, like I grew up in a place called Swan Pond Village. Everybody knew that's where the poor kids lived. And so we all were picked on. But we were all like a. At the same time. We were all a group. We were like a little roving family.

[B]

You know, these kids are great because we hear that they're talking to like a fifth or sixth grader and we go through the difference between a truth and a lie. And today we're going to talk about true things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so this boy says that she.

[A]

Doesn'T like people playing around over where like she lives like in that grass over there because she, she thinks that it's her property.

[B]

This woman doesn't like when we play outside. It doesn't even matter where the kids are. Even if it's not on her property, which it's never on her property.

[A]

It's also, she doesn't have any proper. Too long to establish this. Like apparently this is a neighborhood where you can buy but most people rent. It is established that she does not own the area, like the yard. At one point the cop says the only thing that is her property is her porch. Stay off it.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Yeah, talk about it. So she hates the kids. She hates the noise. She hates that they're playing. She's calling the. She's just miserable.

[A]

But here's my question to you. Why did she move there?

[B]

Well, here's the thing. Like, I probably wouldn't thoroughly love being on that block. Of course, the kids are out all the time and she claims she works from home. Like, I get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, like, she lived here for two years. We're going to see the entirety of those two years.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Are you going to tell me that when you went to see the house, you didn't hear them yelling? If you're like, oh, this is super kid friendly. That's not my scene. Don't live there. And if you are, if you have to, I know some. There could be extenuating circumstances. If you have to live there, then it's on you to get over it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because this is the block that you have to live on. So, like, it might suck, but you suck it up for these two years and you deal with it. All they're doing is playing. Is it annoying? Even the cops are like, I was Loud and annoying, too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

That's what kids do.

[A]

And these parents are so reasonable. They're so much more reasonable than they need to be. Even that, like, if this woman had just gone the other way and just been friendly and then talked to the parents, I'm sure the parents could have been like, just don't play in front of her house.

[B]

Even if she's the miserable woman always looking out the window. But, like, she's caught. She caused all of this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it's February 25, 2022. All the kids are outside playing. This woman is practically hiding behind a pickup truck. When the CO show up, this is the first call we see.

[A]

Yes. And we're going to learn. This is her pickup truck. And she uses it against these kids in every opportunity that she has.

[B]

Her name is Susan Lawrence.

[A]

I called because the lady across the street on the phone hit me with a sign. Her children were walking their dog on the property.

[B]

Clearly says, no trespassing.

[A]

And they're always walking the dog. The dog's always taking the clock. There's poop on the sidewalk.

[B]

There's all kinds of stuff.

[A]

I said, can you please keep the dog over there?

[B]

They're always walking the dog, and the dog's pooping, and I hate it.

[A]

Now, a couple of things about this. Number one, it's not her sign. Number two, it's not her on number three. It took me until the second time watching this because it ha. It all goes very fast. There was a couple of times I was like, oh, okay, the lady did that. But whatever. This lady. This other woman's nightmare. No, no, no, no. Every time that she says something that these parents did, it's a lie.

[B]

It's a lie.

[A]

It is never true.

[B]

It's a gross exaggeration. It's.

[A]

Now, this mother, when they go to talk to this mother, her name is Ajika, and she is like. She admits to, like, picking up the sign and throwing the sign out of frustration. This other woman, Susan, has twisted that to. She picked up the sign and threw it at me, and I am injured. That did not happen.

[B]

So. And Susan claims, well, I ever so nicely just gently asked, please, ma', am, please keep your dog over there. And then I went to take a picture of her dog, and this woman flipped out, accusing me of taking pictures of her kids. Yeah. So Susan then shows the sign, and again, this is all body cam. So Susan shows the sign, and she's like, as you can see, she really threw it at me. And I'm like, that is so manipulative. Cause. What do you mean? As you can see, sign. There's no sign. There's no evidence of anything.

[A]

We're going to learn in court at the very end of this thing, which they do over the credits, which is the fudgeing. Most amazing throwaway. Who cares?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I loved it so much. That sign is made out of paper.

[B]

It's nothing.

[A]

You can't throw it. You know what I mean?

[B]

Proof of, like, look at the damage done.

[A]

Right.

[B]

There's no damage on your leg. Bitch. She didn't fucking hit you with it.

[A]

And the other thing, like, maybe you could say that. Shouldn't have thrown the sign. These parents will act out the 20th time. This woman is horrendous to them every day. Let so much water off a duck's back. Like, they turned the other cheek 20 times. They cannot be blamed for picking up the sign and throwing it in the opposite direction of this woman once she's.

[B]

She's miserable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the cops go over to the woman who allegedly threw the sign. Her name is Owens. She goes by A.J. she has four kids. So it's a. The cops are. It's a white guy and a black woman.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Black woman cop immediately is like, I see that smirk on your face. Like, you know why we're here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So explains. Look, there is a big open patch of grass.

[A]

I don't want you to. You can't tell them technically, if they're not in your personal. Personal space that they can't walk the dog or even throw their football over them. Black people only sister sisters. Okay. All right, whatever. That doesn't move me.

[B]

That is not crazy Susan's property.

[A]

No.

[B]

Instead of lazy Susan, we have crazy. We got crazy Susan's like, Crazy Susan is always bringing race into it because a black woman. And she goes, all right, whatever. That doesn't move me. And to be clear. Right. We will see many cops here right now. Ajika is talking to fellow black woman.

[A]

Yes. And this fellow black woman cop speaking to this black woman civilian. They are speaking their own language. They know exactly what's going on before.

[B]

They even started speaking. They. They.

[A]

This woman cop understands this in a way that this white male cop never could.

[B]

Never, ever, ever could.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so Ajika explains that Susan, like, this, like, alleged altercation. Susan is waving the sign in her face to be like, see? No trespassing. No trespassing. And that when Ajika picks up the sign and throws it and she goes, did I throw it? 100%. Did I throw it deliberately at her? No.

[A]

No, Also like Ajika, this black woman is dealing so patiently with being questioned by these cops, you know, because what.

[B]

Is not really being said here, that's like up to us to figure out and experience, especially as white people, is that Ajika can't be the one who calls the cops.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

She doesn't want to call the cops on the older white lady.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So she's just like. Like, don't give them a reason is sort of how Ajika as a black woman is operating.

[A]

And it really doesn't take the cops too long to let everybody know. We know she's the problem. We get it. But how? However you gotta live together, nobody sees what happens coming. I mean, by nobody, I mean the cops don't see what happened. So they're just like, we gotta believe her. We gotta believe you. Let's you keep your kids over here. You know, they're trying to take that approach.

[B]

So while Agika. And again, we don't have any lower thirds. So I don't know this police officer's name, this black woman that speaking with. But while they are speaking, the other cop talks to another neighbor and she's like, yeah, I didn't see anything personally, but let me tell you, I didn't see anything.

[A]

But I will say that that lady is always messing with people's kids. She's always. Yeah, she's always trying to record the kids and always talking about. But I didn't see anything.

[B]

I guess, okay, she's yelling, she's calling them names, she's trying to recording them. And then another neighbor says the same thing. Like, I couldn't touch that lady. But also she's a nightmare. She's always like. So from the very first phone call, ye. We have multiple people saying, Susan is full of shit. And she's a hate. She's full of hate is what she is. So the cops just say, look, just for the sake of this, our first call here, she's clearly like, she's upset about something. Just don't go over there. You're all renters. You all have the same rights.

[A]

Well, right, because the one thing we do get is dates. And so we are learning when we first open. We're at the. The day of the shooting. And this visit by the cops is going back two years. Remember, this white lady's only lived in this neighborhood for two years. So at the time of this visit from the cops, this lady's just moved in.

[B]

She just moved. That's really, really important to remember. So the cops are like, look, she's a nightmare. But just like, don't go over there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Ajika ends up apologizing to the cops. And this is when the black woman cop is like, I understand exactly how you feel. Like, this is why I have a house. And Ajika says prayerfully, this is our last year before getting a house.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So these two women understand each other from the very beginning. The cops leave. No arrest, obviously. And they tell Susan, like, look, there's really nothing to be done. Like, nobody confirmed your story. In fact, everyone said the opposite.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

There's no evidence of any. Susan's all about the theatrics. She's rolling her eyes.

[A]

How convenient.

[B]

She's huffing and puff. No witnesses. How convenient. So before we leave, we see Ajika walking her dog.

[A]

Here we go. I would. Big note for gp.

[B]

He's a big poodle or a doodle or whatever his name is. Cash. He is big. Remember that. That'll be important for later.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But the lady officer bonds with her again, and she's like, I'm sorry.

[A]

He's a big baby. I want to turn. That's what I love her baby at all.

[B]

Cash, cash money, cash money, cash money. So that is important. But it's also showing that, like, there was a bond here between these women.

[A]

Yes. And so then we get, like, a bunch of voiceover of the neighbors talking about AA and, like, what an amazing mom she is. They say she was the mom. She's a manager at the local McDonald's. She would always sw. Switch her schedule around to prioritize her kids. This woman, there were told sacrifices for her kids to the tune of paying for school, football lessons. I'm like, you take lessons in football, gymnastics, dance, everything. Like, she was like, super mom.

[B]

She had four kids. They had the world. No one has a bad word to say about her.

[A]

Truly. And, like, you can tell just by, like, what we've seen on the body cam. She's the most patient calm you have to be if you got four kids.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But she's, like, the most patient, calm.

[B]

Nice, loving woman and also, like, trying to not rock the boat. The cops are here. There's a white lady upset. Like, that's the world Ajika has to navigate. So August 10, 2020. Crazy Susan has called the police again. The kids are playing on property that isn't hers. And God damn it, she wants something done about it.

[A]

And she's trying to educate this cop about their real estate laws. Like, this woman Susan makes the cops hate her immediately.

[B]

And the cops are like, sweetheart, the people who actually own the property don't care. There's nothing we can do. Also, what is wrong with you?

[A]

What is wrong with you?

[B]

And then she's like, well, then I'll.

[A]

Send the cease and desist letter to them.

[B]

Through it.

[A]

There is in the real estate laws.

[B]

You should know this, that you have.

[A]

A right, peaceful, quiet enjoyment of your property. You know that that is in the law. Well, it's civil, so we don't. We don't really deal with that. I understand. But over here, cool.

[B]

Like, I heard that's annoying. They're allowed annoying. There's like 12 or 13 of them. That's what kids do. But at least they're like happy and safe and having fun as opposed to any other thing out getting into trouble or being in danger. Like, at least they're all and happy. Right.

[A]

I want to also just say that, like the bits of video of these kids that we get, these are kids with like really positive dispositions.

[B]

They're really like, they're like precocious.

[A]

They're precocious. And it's like, Susan, if you had just taken another approach, if you like, you can be annoyed. You don't have to like it, but you could also be like, annoyed in a cute way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Or you can seethe quietly.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And you know what I mean. Instead of calling the police and wasting everybody's fucking time.

[A]

You know what I did when I had neighbors who were so loud and wouldn't turn the music down? I got a pair of AirPods, Susan.

[B]

White noise.

[A]

And I went to bed, right?

[B]

So when this white lady cop is like, well, at least they're happy though, right? Susan goes, oh. And turns around and walks away, muttering all the way back inside. The cops are like, okay, bye, I guess. And as they're walking away, they go, what a fucking.

[A]

And cuts off.

[B]

But I want to slow down here for a second because in all of these calls, the way Susan talks about these kids is riddled with microaggressions against black people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like she will eventually be full on racist.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But at first she's sort of like testing the waters with the cops. Those people, these kids. She's using like, screaming. She's using this like, dehumanizing language.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's trying to say something without saying it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the cops aren't taking the bait. And that's why she huffs and puffs and walks away.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Everything she says. And we'll see it in like major full on display a little Bit later, but she's kind of being like, am I right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they're not agreeing with her and that is frustrating to her as a white person. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[A]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

Yeah.

[B]

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[B]

So they talk to the guy who actually put up the no trespassing sign.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he essentially like put up that sign for Susan as a favor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because she was annoying the shit out of him and he was like, okay, if you want. Also for the record, I don't care. He's the only guy who owns any of the Property. Like, what he says goes. And he's fine to let these kids play football.

[A]

It must just be crazy making to, like, be living in this neighborhood for, like, all these years, as everybody else has been. These kids have been here the whole time. This lady's new, and now she's the problem. Like, it must make you crazy, right?

[B]

Just move.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So more audio of Susan. This time. She actually admits that she called the children the R word.

[A]

Having parties with the neighbor's children.

[B]

They. They come up to me and just scream like idiots. And I finally.

[A]

I lost my nerve today.

[B]

I just couldn't take it anymore.

[A]

I called the kids. Then the mother comes screaming at me, don't call my two of my. I'm gonna put you in a nursing home. I'm gonna put you in a nursing home.

[B]

Which is hilarious. I mean, because she's like. Then I don't know why, but the mom got mad that I was, like, name calling, calling her kids these horrible words. So she threatened to throw me in a nursing home. And I'm like, point Ajika.

[A]

Right? And the whole. But the whole thing is she's only admitting to that one thing that she doesn't think is that bad. So she can say, this woman threatened me.

[B]

And this is, again, her being like. Right, White cop.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You get me. Like, aren't they. Are those people awful? And the cops just aren't falling for it in Florida. Which shock.

[A]

Which really. But, like, just to slow down on that for one second, that shows you how awful this woman was so bad. She's so bad that the cops are not on her side.

[B]

Yeah. You know, she's making it so fucking obvious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But this is where she's like, look, I'm single. I work from home. Again, this constant. Like, you should. The tone is very. You should be on my side.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Us versus them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's like, I'm quiet, I'm peaceful. I'm the perfect neighbor.

[A]

I mean, like, I love a documentary that gets the title from, like, a crazy moment in the documentary.

[B]

This is what happens in the first 10 minutes of the horror movie.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly.

[B]

You know what I mean? This is only. It's real fucking life.

[A]

Speaking of horror movies, I forgot to mention this earlier, but, like, earlier, the first time they knock on their. On her door, they go, sheriff's department. It's really Sing songy. It's now December 22, 2022. The cops knock on her door again, Decidedly less Sing Songy.

[B]

Hi, Sheriff's department.

[A]

Sheriff's department.

[B]

What's going on tonight. Like that fake happy tone, but like that, like faking a smile. And Susan goes, well, you know, lots of children screaming their full heads off, running around again, dehumaniz again. We're all in this together.

[A]

It's also that thing where it is shocking to me that Susan, like, if this were any one of. If this were any normal person and the cops were at your house, now for the 30th time, wouldn't you be like, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to bother you. Oh my God. Like the look, she has absolutely no sense that she's not 100% in the right.

[B]

And now she starts to ramp up the lies.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So as she tells it, the kids are playing in her, in her truck.

[A]

I had my trucking park here so I didn't have to listen to the screaming and yelling. As soon as I moved and checked, the kids are coming up like, guys stop. They know they're not supposed to be over here.

[B]

My name is Dr. Lawrence. Don't you tell me to shut up. She's not a doctor.

[A]

What is, what is she trying to pretend to be a doctor of? You know, I'm a doctor of Seuss.

[B]

A doctor of bullshit. Like, you know, I'm a good goer. I goog the shit out of everything, right?

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

She says she's not a doctor. I searched far and wide. There's not a single thing saying that she has a doctorate of everything, any kind that is.

[A]

I mean, so it's just another lie.

[B]

It's just another lie to make her feel important. To sort of feel like the cops should believe her. It's just bullshit. It's just bullshit. And it's, it's to hold her higher than these black kids that she does not deem equal to her.

[A]

And it's just so crazy because all she wants to do is talk about how awful these kids are. The idea that this kid told her to shut up. These are the kinds of kids that when are asked by the cops, what did she call you? They, she said the S word, the.

[B]

R word, the B word, the C word, the this word, every letter in.

[A]

And like in one of the darkest moments in one of these kids lives, he's sobbing and he says, she called me a jackass. Like these are the most respectful. These parents are not fucking around. They are raising these kids to be. And we're gonna hear time and time again, no matter how awful this woman is, she's an adult. You come to me and let me handle it.

[B]

And they're not doing anything wrong because the lady cop at the scene goes to talk to the kids. There are like eight of them. And a mom interrupts and she's like, hold on.

[A]

Yeah, this is the moment where the mom was like, none of these are my kids. But they're all my kids.

[B]

But they're all my kids. Y. But like, this is where the mom says, like, she's like, I want to be clear about this. The property that this crazy. My words, not hers. But she again, she gets fired.

[A]

Yeah. She's like, because it's an open spot.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That all of that is not her property. Sure. All of that is not property. So that man that does live right there, he says that all the kids can play. Cuz they like to play football over there. Sure. And they're. She said they literally. They're nowhere near her property. Y' all can watch her camera. They're right over there.

[B]

We wouldn't just like let our kids traipse all over property if it's not allowed. They have permission. It's not her property. She's just causing problems.

[A]

And like, I know that we're dealing with an insane person, so why bother reasoning? But like, as the parent of a child who likes to play with her friends loud, I would be totally open to, can we have quiet hours? Maybe after 9:00 o'clock. The kids aren't allowed to play like we were. We would play outside until all hours of the night. Probably to a point that was like, we shouldn't have been allowed to do that. Maybe these kids are even like, maybe the parents like, go play football until 9 o'. Clock. I get it. There is a world in which, like, there's a reasonable argument to be made that there should be a time when the kids are not allowed to be loud anymore.

[B]

Look, you know, she's a horrible, murderous racist, this woman. She's evil, she's angry, there's darkness in her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think she's the only person who'd be like, loud, guys. It's a little loud out here. Like, but again, I wouldn't live there. But if I was forced to live there for any million reasons, money, whatever, I had to live there. I. I'd be like, this is the gig. I have to live on a Street with 12 kids. I also probably would end up making friends with the parents in some way.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Because if you just sit and seethe, it gets worse and worse. If you humanize the children and be like, they're just playing football. It'll be over before I know it. Just deal with it. All the cops are like, you're loud and annoying. That's what you do when you're a kid. And when they're all together, but also, and I'll say this again later, but I'll just mention it now. She has made herself an enemy. And so she's the fucking cat Karen who's calling. Because they end up saying when the cops are there, they're like, there have.

[A]

Been times where kids are going to be kids and she'll be saying something and they may say something back. Okay, Karen. Or something like that. I've always instructed my kids. She's still an adult at the end of the day. You don't argue with her. You come and you tell me and you let me take it up with her. It's the one like, quote, disrespectful thing the kids say about her. They call her the Karen. Like that's her name to them.

[B]

But because she.

[A]

I'm on their side, by the way.

[B]

Yeah, but like she, she wants it to be us versus them. Okay, so you're getting it, you fucking crazy bitch. Yes. So now they'll like ding dong ditch. Or now like, they'll be extra loud because they know she hates it and that's. What does she expect?

[A]

I don't believe they ever did ding dong ditch. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[B]

Like, even if they are instigating her a little bit, their kids, she's not. She's made it a mess. She's drawn the line. She's being a pain in the ass.

[A]

Like, what does she think these parents are such. They're so good that these kids do not want to cross. Like, they know that if they ding dong ditch this lady's house and they go to the. They're going to be in big trouble with the parents.

[B]

Well, especially because we're back with Ajika and she tells the lady cop, not the black woman we met earlier, she's like, look, I've told my kids. And again, there's like a heaviness to Ajika when she says this because she knows there's like a white lady on a tirade. Like her kids, every. All of the non white kids are in danger. And she's like, I told my kids, do not engage. And this is a conversation that black parents have to have more than anybody else in the world. Do not give them a reason. Do not engage. It doesn't matter how wrong the person person is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You could be furious. Inside safely. Yes, so we learned that maybe the kids are calling her a Karen. Maybe they're being loud, AKA being children.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She's yelling. Maybe they yell back, like, whatever. But they're all told by the cops, by the parents, if something. They've been instructed, do not engage. If something happens, find an adult. And Susan, the adult has been told the same fucking thing.

[A]

Yeah. And like, that is where. That's why you're saying it's, like, required watching for white people. Like, we should be feeling the rage that we're all feeling, you know, and.

[B]

It should be uncomfortable. It should be hard to watch. This is a reality for a lot of people that we need to deal with.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, like, she's calling the kids every name in the book. The N word, the R word, the B word, all the words, all the letters.

[A]

Like, I was like, I'm not exactly sure what that word is. I think I know. And I'm like, you're calling little children. I don't know why that offended me. So, like, what is wrong with you?

[B]

What is wrong with you? She's also setting off her own pickup truck's alarm.

[A]

I was out here with my dog, and I happened to see her pull there. And they'll tell me, mom, she set the alarm off. We're not doing anything. So this particular day, I told them, I said, everybody come over here and let's just see. And sure enough, just randomly, like, every six minutes, the alarm would go off and nobody's even over there. Yeah. So I'm like, go back and play. Then she'll come outside. Oh, you guys are near my truck. And they would sit there and watch her set off her own car alarm from inside her house, then scream out at the kids for setting off the car alarm. And like that, Audrey confronts her about it.

[B]

And it's like, no one is messing with. She is messing with them.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The kids are just trying to mind their own fucking business. And she's making it impossible. And this woman is forcing the tragedy that she then causes. Like she's looking for trouble.

[A]

It's just crazy that in the number of times these cops are, that there's nothing that can be done about this. Like, she's harassing them. Why is there nothing that can be done about this?

[B]

I know, I know. And the cop says to the kids, look, you're loud and annoying. That's what kids do. What I did, we did it back then. But, like, he goes, I'd rather have.

[A]

You be doing this than being inside.

[B]

On the TikTok, on the TikTok or any other number of dangerous bad things or whatever. They're all. They're close to their parents. They seem to love their families. They love their friends. They're close to home. Like, oh, my God, lady. Like, lighten up. So he says, don't go on her porch, because I'm not saying you did. Right. She says, you did. Whatever. She's conflated. Like, he's basically saying to the kids, whatever she's thinking you're doing. He goes, I want to set you up for success, so just don't go near her place if that can maybe help matters.

[A]

I just want somebody to scare this woman. Not one of the kids. I want one of the cops to get say to her, you're harassing these people. If you continue to do this, we're going to arrest you. Why can't anybody say that to her?

[B]

Well, I. Let's get into it a little later because I thought about this, too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the cops leave by encouraging the kids to keep being loud.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And they're like. And always tell an adult if crazy Susan comes out like the fucking Tasmanian devil. But as they're walking away, they know that Susan is 100% the problem. And the cop goes, you know what we should do?

[A]

I should give her some poppets for New Year's and bring them back to him. Right.

[B]

Y' all have a good evening. Thank you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We should give him shit to set off on New Year's. That'll make her go crazy. Like, he knows. Like. But. But again, the white privilege of it is that she's a white older woman. They just think she's like the old crank.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. She's a nuisance. She's annoying. We'll get. You know what? We'll, like, encourage the kids to be loud because when they walk away, they go psycho. They know. But not. Not enough.

[A]

Well, but then they go back to her to let her know that, like, she doesn't own the field. We know it's not yours. But then she comes back with, what about that mother's threat that she's going to drag me and beat me?

[B]

And they're like, says who? Says only you, Susan. You're the only problem. You're the only. She's only the one who calls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No one is calling on Susan saying this crazy. Like, it's just her.

[A]

Right? And it's like, should the other parents have been calling on her to, like, report her for reporting them?

[B]

But Ajika doesn't want to because she's a Black woman, right? Like, that's what we have to keep thinking about here, everybody.

[A]

So the idea of like, let her keep being the problem. Like right now the cops are on our side. Let her keep being the problem.

[B]

Right? It's so clear.

[A]

Yeah. This section ends with a cop saying to her, the kids are afraid of you. The kids are afraid that you're going to hurt them. And Susan says, no, I would never. I would never ever. I mean, it's why we're here because.

[B]

Like, more tidbits about Susan that we learn like, from the audio.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She got an air horn that is.

[A]

A level of insane. Like, that is so. That is jackass level crazy.

[B]

And it's like she's such a fucking. Like she's so immature too. Like she's trying to like, stoop down to like, oh, oh, the kid. The big bad kids are playing football at 4:30 in the afternoon.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Are you. Fuck. Are you kidding me? You're gonna get an air horn and be like, you think that's loud?

[A]

Like, why do air horns exist? I feel like we've had this conversation on this podcast. And why do they have to exist?

[B]

There are plenty of reasons why.

[A]

There are.

[B]

There must be.

[A]

Okay, okay. We just can't think of any.

[B]

I just can't think of any.

[A]

Like, why does any. That is insane. An air horn. Why does that need to pepper spray? I get an air horn horn. What, for football games or something.

[B]

That's the worst when you hear like.

[A]

I mean, but she's also like, honking the horn of her truck. She's gunning the engine. She's speeding through this maniac.

[B]

Yeah, she's a menace.

[A]

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[A]

Do you know how excited I am to go home and get into my mattress?

[B]

I can't wait to. I think I'm good.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

So it's March 14, 2023. We are not at Susan's apartment. Interesting. Where the hell are we? I don't know. Susan's truck.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

She's driving around like a fucking menace. Has somehow ended up locked on private property. The gate has, like, no less than five no trespass. Oh. And I'm like, ooh. Little miss no trespassing has trespassed.

[A]

She's trespassed against us.

[B]

It's delicious. What happened? We don't fully know. The Internet doesn't fully know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we hear some guy is, like, in.

[A]

And there's a lady in there ramming, like, just ramming the gate back and forth with her truck. I don't know. She obviously must have got locked in, But I don't know what she did was doing back there to begin with because this gate's always locked, and he's fine. You know, one other time, a guy got locked in here, and he called me and he got let out. You know, all right, it's that simple.

[B]

So she trespasses and destroys this gate, and he goes, well, you know, like, there was one other time where another guy got locked in here, but he called me and he got let out. She just, like, busted through the gate.

[A]

Through the gate with her blowing the air horn, I'm sure.

[B]

Whatever. And I'm like, okay. So the cops go to the address listed on the truck, and they're like, oh, she lives right down the street. Now. I get the sense that these cops don't know Susan from a hole in the wall, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But they knock a bunch of times. No answer.

[A]

They try like insane.

[B]

They try like, three times. We go to the window, which has a no trespassing sticker. You were just. You just trespassed against us. Against us. So they knock on the window. One minute. Jeez. One minute. And I'm like. Even the cop goes, geez.

[A]

Oh, my God, that was wild.

[B]

That. And by the way. Oh, that's the real Susan.

[A]

Yeah. Don't don't.

[B]

Okay, so they're knocking the no trespassing sign. They're knocking, like, ma', am, like, nicely. One minute. The cop.

[A]

Cheese. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It gets worse.

[B]

But this is the real Susan, and I want you to remember that.

[A]

She goes, what do you want? Oh, my God. She must not know that this is a cop, because who else?

[B]

The cop knock. Everyone knows the cop knock.

[A]

Totally. She's like, in her bathrobe. She doesn't want to come out.

[B]

He's like, are you Ms. Susan? Yes, I am.

[A]

Oh, my God. Dr. Susan.

[B]

Can you step outside here a second? I was in bed. He's like, okay.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So they ask her about the pickup truck. She has an attitude.

[A]

It's unbelievable, because the cop is trying to get her to admit that, like, she was with her car all day.

[B]

The cop starts reading her her rights, and he's like, I have to do this because I'm gonna ask you some very direct questions.

[A]

Yeah. Now, if you're in a situation where the cops are reading you your rights, you're in trouble. You're in big trouble.

[B]

He's reading her her rights. She's like, hold on, I'm freezing. And runs inside.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

Come back. And we. With the body cam, like, in her little.

[A]

Because it's like, is she going for a gun? Like, that's what he's. It's Florida. Anything could happen.

[B]

And she's like, let me just get something on. Freezing. Something I really hate.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is when, like, definitively evil people are unintentionally, objectively funny. Like, I hate that.

[A]

Oh, it's gonna happen again in a major way later.

[B]

It's a horribly conflicting feeling.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

But this is objectively insane.

[A]

It's insane.

[B]

Like, objectively insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So he finishes up, and he's like, having these rights in mind. Do you wanna talk to me now? She goes, no, no. And he goes, no. And she goes, no.

[A]

He's genuinely shocked.

[B]

But the cop goes, cool. No problem. So here's what's gonna happen now. I'm gonna go find the guy that found you trespassing, and we're gonna do a photo lineup, and when he identifies you, we'll press charges. Totally changes her tune.

[A]

I didn't realize what it was.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

You've. You. You realize what it was? Because you pretty much started saying it beforehand, and now you've said that you don't. I'm. I'm not. I'm not going to do that.

[B]

Okay. Taking medication that's why I didn't even want to talk. I'm sorry.

[A]

I can't.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I mean, previously.

[B]

Now she's throwing every excuse in the book. I'm on medication. I was raped. We don't really get. It's like, okay, she's unhinged. Like, I think what we're seeing here.

[A]

Is, I don't know, traveling.

[B]

I don't know if they press charges. I don't know what happened with this. But like it's to show how unhinged she is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And how she'll say and do anything. And she's violent.

[A]

Yeah. And also, where was she? Like, what was that place?

[B]

What was. I think. Yeah. She tried.

[A]

Was she like dumping her trash in the woods or something and she got locked in or.

[B]

Or they towed her car and she was like, I fucking want it. And then went and got it and like drove it through the gate. Like in Almost Famous.

[A]

It's. This is. You know who she's reminding me of a little bit? That lady from the woman who wasn't there.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I thought the same thing. She looks like quality.

[A]

Yeah. And there's that complete disconnection from reality where she thinks her reality is real and everybody else's not and everyone.

[B]

But like, she's totally, like, you should be on her side. Why aren't you? Like, like, like it's like it's a no brainer to totally sympathize with her.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And like she'll just throw a lie out and see if it sticks. And if it sticks, great, she'll go with that one.

[A]

And it never works. Which is kind of amazing because a lot of times these people get away with this shit.

[B]

Yeah. You know, hey, let's talk racism. So she. Now, again, this is ramping and ramping.

[A]

There should be a trigger warning for this section. Like, this is really bad.

[B]

So she would scream at these kids. And we have audio of witnesses saying this.

[A]

Yeah. Describe to me what she was saying. The F word, the B word. B word and the F word.

[B]

She called them slaves. She told them that the field that.

[A]

They weren't on, where it wasn't the underground railroad calling the little kids and all this and all that. Calling the kids the N word. Like, like these parents, their self control is unbelievable.

[B]

She's a hateful, miserable bitch and she's a waste of life.

[A]

She's trying. Maybe they just understand that she's just trying to goad them into some sort of physical altercation.

[B]

That's what she's doing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And remember, we're in Florida.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So there's a stand your ground law. So she is.

[A]

Oh, we're going to get there.

[B]

She is planting seeds. And she was planting seeds this whole time.

[A]

But that's why I was saying before we started, like, did she move into this neighborhood to kill somebody? Was that the plan from the beginning?

[B]

I don't think it was the plan, but I think if it comes to that, she'll do it in her. But I think that's what it is in Florida. This is where she. And remember, she, like, didn't. She's not from Florida.

[A]

Right. You know, well, it's April 25, 2023. Get ready for a callback for the ages. Remember that dog that we were telling you about before that's like the size of a cow? Yeah. She's called the cops again to tell the cops that one of the neighborhood boys was trying to pick his dog up and put the dog in her truck. And she says, I'm not here for that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This is a story that makes no sense.

[B]

Makes no sense. Now, the cops have been here a handful of times now. The kids swarm the cop. They trust this guy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They're like, hey, the Karen called.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Now the vibe, very. Here we go again. Now, like, this is where I was like, why aren't they going to do something about wasting time and resources?

[A]

But see, that's the other big question.

[B]

And causing strife in the community. Like, she's like, doesn't that count for. She's brewing hate.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And making essentially fake 911 calls. And I thought about it. I really, like, sat. I like, took my hands off the keyboard. I was like, wait, let me, like, slow down on this and really think about.

[A]

Yeah. Because the time and resources was the thing that I was like, if they don't care about anything else, I bet they'll care about that.

[B]

And I'm like, is this a situation where my thought process swayed? Because I know how it ends.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, is it. Because I absolutely think the cops needed to be clearer and tougher with her about not calling them for no reason. Like, when they're there, be like, don't fucking do this again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think her white privilege is showing. I think it's her age. I think it's like, they think she's the harmless old crank.

[A]

Yeah. But nobody should think that in a state with a stand your ground law where there's strife in the neighborhood. I mean, that.

[B]

That's the thing that she's causing. She's the root of all the problems. Right. And so, like, she was definitely, for sure, treated with kid gloves. I'm not defending, like, full stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I'm thinking, like. Like, I looked it up, and according to the New York times, there were six to eight incidences between 2021 and 2023. This feels like it's every day.

[A]

That is true. And in fairness to the documentary, they give us the dates, and they do. In writing the dates down. You're like, that. It is spread out.

[B]

It is. But it's still kind of like, man, we were just here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or, you know, there's. But it's very like, here we go again.

[A]

And, like, at least in one of those instances, the cops didn't know about the other instances. Sure.

[B]

Right. And then the thing that we see with the pickup truck and the no trespassing, like, that wasn't technically connected. She's the one to it.

[A]

We will hear our cops say at one point, like, if you put her number into the system, it's like, it feels like a million calls coming from her. So at least some of them know.

[B]

And they didn't respond to all of them. That drops into. And, like, I don't know if we necessarily want the cops to, like, not prioritize this area because of this one crazy lady.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I don't know, like, they have a duty to respond.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So, like, they should be responding because what if it's the time they don't respond and then something bad happened or she's the one. So it's very, very complicated how. However.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Full stop. They should have been clearer with her. Full stop. They should have been like, don't fucking do this again.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, you're the problem and cut the shit. And they didn't do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah. This time she's like, my. The kids wanted to put the puppy in the truck. Cash money. The big poodle from earlier. She's lying.

[A]

They go and talk to a neighborhood dad. And, like, this is where I was like, wow. This interaction between the cops and this dad is kind of amazing. And, like, it's so bad in America that these white cops being really nice to this place. Black dad was so heartwarming to me that I then got mad at myself.

[B]

This lady is so terrible that she's actually bringing people together.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like. It's like, cops. If you could approach every interaction that you have with everybody with this same sort of deference, like, the world would be a much better place because they're like laughing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the dad is like. She's saying he was trying to put the dog in the back of the truck. Do you think he could even lift that dog? That dog. Dog is bigger than him. The poodle is bigger than him. Okay. Literally, like that dog is. That dog stands this about this ride around saying he like that he can't pick that dog. No way possible. It's Cash and the kid's name is Izzy. And the dog is enormous. We've already seen the dog, and there's absolutely no way that this kid could lift this dog into the truck. Now to me, they're all laughing. I think the dad is glad that it's going this way or what. But, like, can't you take that evidence back to this crazy old lady and be like, you're so story is a lie. This couldn't have happened. Stop doing this.

[B]

And, like, she stops being a nuisance.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the, like, miserable crank.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When she starts actively lying and then accusing them of, like, touching her property, like, this is where the slippery slope gets really, really slippery.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she's also, like, so terrible that this black dad, like, this conversation is light. It ends with a pound. And they all go on their way. Like, this is. I was like, holy shit.

[A]

Like, it was once again, one thing.

[B]

We can all agree on.

[A]

It was so beautiful to watch that then I was mad at myself for being happ that they were nice to this one black guy that one time.

[B]

The bar's in hell.

[A]

Yeah, the bar's in hell.

[B]

Piping hot. Where Susan will be momentarily.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

Any day now. It's like Susan and this other guy that we're all kind of waiting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where we go. Oh, did my phone light up? Is that the news alert?

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Is that the alert we've been waiting for?

[A]

I gotta say, too, there's this one great moment where one of the kids. Where the cops are walking past the kids to go talk to Susan again. And the kids are like, they're accusing us of stealing her car. We're 11.

[B]

Yeah, we're 11. And he's like, I know.

[A]

It was so funny.

[B]

These are the kids we're dealing with.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They're just trying to play football until it's time for dinner. Like, up. So May 22, 2023, Susan's ramping up. She goes to the police station claiming that the kids have burned this no trespassing sign as a message. It's a threat, she says. And the cops are like, girl, we're.

[A]

Also going to see this sign in court, not burned. It's just a lie.

[B]

She just goes in with like a story and a prayer. And they're like, girl.

[A]

And they say to her, no evidence. You have no evidence. There's like, she's like, I want them arrested. Well, we're just going to be taking a statement today.

[B]

Yeah, bye. Like, there's nothing they can do. They don't believe her. Neither do I.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And now meanwhile, the next like sort of batch of audio because like we were seeing this video and then it's like the cops questioning everyone, like about this tragedy that we will learn about soon.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So all the kids are like, oh, by the way, another day happened that.

[A]

My friend told me. My friend told me that lady over there showed the kids that she had a gun. We were just playing over there and then she was waving her gun and Isaac and all of them were like, run. And we were hiding behind this car right here.

[B]

Susan was also telling us about the gun that she has waving it around at them, which is insane behavior.

[A]

Now this should be a five alarm fire. You know what I mean? I understand that it's Florida and the whole gun life down there is very different. But this crazy woman who's trying to instigate fights with everybody in a state with a stand your ground law and there are kids everywhere. This should be a five alarm fire.

[B]

Yeah. And it's just really sad because the black parents in the community must feel so helpless.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like they don't want to provoke this white lady by calling the cops. Like they don't want to invite that.

[A]

Yeah. Because it's like Chekhov's gun. If like a crazy woman like this has a gun on the table, she's going to use it. She only bought that gun to concoct a reason to use it.

[B]

Yeah. Travel down the road. Back again, girl.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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People are catching colds. And like most people only think about their immune system after they get sick.

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Right.

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Yes.

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[A]

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[B]

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[B]

You got to own it.

[A]

Got to own it.

[B]

So it's June 2, 2023. It's during the daytime and she's recording the kids on her phone and she has to zoom in on them playing because they are not on her property and they're not even close to her. She has to zoom in.

[A]

And we see the video. It's also upside down. This fudgeing moron doesn't even know how to hold her phone properly.

[B]

And when they see her filming, they start te. What do you expect? You created this dynamic, you crazy racist bitch.

[A]

That's all you can do.

[B]

Like, you know, of course the kids are going to be like, there she is again, fucking filming us. It's weird. She's stalking them at this point. She's harassing them, their children.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

She's made herself an enemy to them. They're going to like tease her and make faces at her. What do you want?

[A]

It's Almost like she knew she'd get that response so she started filming.

[B]

That's what she wanted, you know that's what she wanted.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this is when everything starts ramping up. This is what?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is horrible. So Susan, the fucking adult.

[A]

So I was outside playing basketball and I just see a pair of roller skates flying at Izzy. So me and then Izzy came over here.

[B]

He said the woman had a tablet.

[A]

So me and Isaac went over there.

[B]

And then she came out.

[A]

With the umbrella and started swinging it and called us a jackass.

[B]

She's throwing. Roller skates are heavy.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I mean, that's a weapon.

[B]

That's a real weapon for sure. Incredibly dangerous.

[A]

Learn too that she then comes out with an umbrella. We get varying accounts of like whether she was actually using the umbrella. Like, I believe that she came out with the umbrella as a weapon as well.

[B]

Well, because this of course is invoking a response. So like two kids go over to the house. She. This is when she calls them jackasses. She's like defending her.

[A]

Excuse me, jackass.

[B]

I know, I know it's true. Because what happens is, as you remember, both all of the children and this crazy lady were told, if something bad happens, get your mom. Get an adult.

[A]

Why you don't. What happened was this. Izzy, the little boy with the dog, left his iPad out, his tablet, she took it, he goes over there to get it back. And this is when she throws the roller skates at him, then comes out with the umbrella and like uses it.

[B]

As a weapon and says, go get your mother.

[A]

Go get your mother. Which he does. The mom. Then. Now this is. We're back to the beginning.

[B]

This is.

[A]

This is the moment.

[B]

And remember, she was told if anything happens, the kids are going to get an adult and you will handle it like a normal person. So she knew this is what the kid was going.

[A]

And remember, she is still in possession of his iPad. Like she, like she.

[B]

She stole it.

[A]

And the mother is absolutely incensed that she threw roller skates at my kid and she's got his iPad and won't give it back.

[B]

Enough is a fucking enough.

[A]

She goes over there. We get reports from neighbors that she's saying things like, come outside, bitch. I know you hear me. Ajika is pissed. Who wouldn't be?

[B]

Before the shot happens, we get a 911 call from Susan. She's afraid for her life because an 11 year old is mad at her because. Because she stole his thing and then.

[A]

Threw sweet 11 year old that she's known for two years and has never done anything to physically harm her that.

[B]

She throw a roller skate at. Yeah, that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But she's planning seeds.

[A]

Whose iPad she still has in her hands. Yep. I got kids first parents down there leaving all the toys around, just screaming, yelling, just being absolutely obnoxious. I went into the. What was Take over together. Sorry to take those. I'm going to beat you up for that. Is he out there right now? There are several kids out there right now. And I'm hearing from my wife. I'm very scared.

[B]

She is incredibly calm on this phone call.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's not in fear of her life. She's very, very calm.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is standard. This is what she does.

[A]

This is absolutely a standard call from her. Yes.

[B]

And it's totally normal. I don't hear fear, I don't hear panic. I don't hear chaos in the background. I don't hear threats in the background. It's calm because the cops say, stay inside.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Lock your doors, lock your windows. The cops are on.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So witnesses say Ajika storms over there, as of course she does. Wouldn't you? Anyone would. Enough is enough.

[A]

And once again, even if she is yelling and swearing, she's completely justified. This woman has stolen her son's iPad after all of these two years of like harassment and abuse.

[B]

Violently attacked him.

[A]

Calling them. Yeah, I mean, it's all coming out now.

[B]

So witnesses say Ajika knocks twice and then there was a bang.

[A]

I'm sorry, my boss, I can't talk.

[B]

Please stop.

[A]

My boss.

[B]

It's very clear what happened here. Susan forced a situation where Ajika was angry.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And went over there where Susan can claim it's self defense so she can kill a black woman. Susan lured Ajika to that house. No question.

[A]

I mean, think about it. She didn't give the iPad back, so the mother would have to come over.

[B]

There's no other way to see this. I'm sorry. Like usually I'll try to quantify it. Like this is my opinion, Susan, because everyone was told, kids, if one of you engages with the other, adults are gonna be called. Yes.

[A]

And she literally said, go and get your mother.

[B]

Go and get your mother. Then Susan calls a second time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She is now sobbing a lie. She says on the record she shot Ajika through the closed and locked door.

[A]

Metal door.

[B]

This will be huge later.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then planting seeds again. The kids are always trespassing. That fucking word. Who uses that word in the middle of this instead, like using words that she thinks are going to help her.

[A]

I know she starts speaking in. Stand your ground. Speak. Yes.

[B]

But through it all.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Her anger will always come through. Cuz she's like, I just want them to get the out of here. That's not fear. That is anger.

[A]

Yes, yes, yes.

[B]

So. And this doc is groundbreaking. And what we see next is incredibly hard to watch. And that is the point.

[A]

And it goes on for like. Like eight or nine minutes.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

And basically like. Yeah. Wake up. Wake up. What's going on, man? Get here. Right here, right here, right here. Where's. Right here?

[B]

It's. Sounds of anguish. It's. It's horrifying.

[A]

Now here's where we can have this conversation for just a minute. Like, Ajika dies, she's murdered. And we'll get. We'll. We'll go through that in a second. But we are watching these children watch their mother bleed out. I mean, it is chaos. And every neighbor is out on the street. Everyone loves this woman, everyone hates. They've heard a gunshot. They don't know what's going on. For all they know, there's like a. Like, she still got the gun. And maybe more people are going.

[B]

Nobody knows what happened as well.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

All the kids are out.

[A]

And I just. There are. Some faces are blurred. Ajika is blurred. We're not seeing. We're not watching her die, thank God. But as we go through this and we watch the kids learn about their mother dying in real time, I just. I don't know how I personally feel about a kid who can't give his consent to let that be shown. I don't know how I feel about that. And now I don't want to fight about it. Not with you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just. Like, I have a kid. I don't know. I just don't know how I feel about it.

[B]

I understand and I am very. Just a quick, quick, quick left turn. You know how I feel about, like, kids being used as content.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm very. That is. I find that very upsetting. And I've been on the record of, like, to your point, that's not really allowed. They can't consent.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

On the other side of that, I do also strongly feel here that, like, what we're feeling is why this was made.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And like Pamela Diaz, Ajika's mother, said that she was inspired by Emmett Till's mother because Emmett Till's mother demanded an open casket so the world could see what was done to her son. And so that is Pamela Diaz's inspiration for this. And so, like, a lot of the kids are like, some of them are on TikTok now. Like, some of the neighbors are on TikTok now. So this feels, I mean, her family and community are behind this. That being said, I think all of those negative feelings of, of, like, is this too much for us to watch? I think what they're saying is, yeah, but you have to, because it's enough already for white people especially. Like, I think that's their point. You should hate this.

[A]

Yeah, I hear that. I really do. And I. Maybe that's what I'm feeling like. I. You know what I mean? Like, I really, I had to watch this twice. I really didn't want to. I will always watch a documentary once and then watch it again to take my notes. I really did not want to do that with this. I really only wanted to watch it once, but I, I couldn't. I wouldn't. I didn't feel like I would be doing it justice to just watch. And I. Yeah, I guess you're right. You know, I, I, I didn't want to have to watch those kids go through that twice.

[B]

And there's definitely been, I've seen conversations about, like, from black people saying, like, warning other black people in their community saying, like, this feels like trauma porn. Like, don't watch it. That's totally heard. I'm, I'm just saying white people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Watch it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because, like, they say, are you hurt?

[A]

No. Well, my heart is broken.

[B]

I know. I know, sweetheart.

[A]

My heart is broken.

[B]

And it's like, this happens every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This happens all the time. And so, like, that's why they made this horrible choice. Like, they're not happy about this. Like, seeing these Q and A sessions with the, with the family and Pamela Diaz. They're not fun events.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? But I think she is saying what she has been saying is, like, but it's time. Yeah, it's time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it sucks.

[A]

I have to sit with it for a minute. Minute. Because it, it is. You know, Anyway, we don't have to, like, belabor the point, but. So basically what happens is poor AA dies. They call the kid's father. He shows up in two minutes. This man seems amazing. We see the cops tell him that Aika didn't make it. He crumbles that he's like, I'm going to tell my kids. I'm going to tell my kids. He gathers all the kids. He does it in the mo. I mean, it. I, As a parent, I don't know. I know that I would be able to summon the strength. And if I would do this, if, like, of course, David Daisy would hear it for me. But it is the darkest moment of this man's life. Today has been a very bad day. There's something bad has happened. And all y' all seen it. Y' all understand it. Y' all experienced it, right? Okay. Y' all love me. Okay. Y' all love Mom. All right, well, I got some bad news to tell you. We see the children learn that their mother is not coming back. And they. I mean, these. Their minds are not formed enough to be able to process this.

[B]

No. You know, and there was definitely moments where I was like, we're seeing too much. Like. Okay, like, we're seeing too much. Like we say, like we've said before in other things, like, we don't need to see every crime scene photo. This wasn't blurred. This wasn't like Paradise Lost the opening. Like, we don't. But then. But it's like, with this. Yeah, we do. Like, yeah, certain people do.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

White people do.

[A]

The Emmett Till comparison's a really good one, you know, and when she.

[B]

When I read that, I was like, this is why.

[A]

In effect, what she is saying is, even if they don't like it, we have to make this sacrifice.

[B]

This is the world.

[A]

Even if Ajika's children don't want this, we have to do this, is what she's saying, right?

[B]

To propel change and move things forward and just have people see, like, what's going on in the world.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So Susan is immediately detained, not arrested, but detained. Now, Susan has murdered Ajika Owens. Okay, yes, but because of the stand your ground law, there's an investigation to see if this falls under stand your ground. So she's not arrested right away.

[A]

Yeah. And so it's June 23, 2023. We're in the interrogation room with Susan. It's Detective Sith and Peterson come in. She's cold. Who fucking cares? Turn the air conditioner.

[B]

Yeah, no shit. You fucking cold, Grem.

[A]

But you know what I'm thinking? She's trying to pretend that she's in shock.

[B]

Fucking gargoyle.

[A]

That's what she's trying to do. She's like, this is where. You know, like, this is where she starts to speak the stand your ground speech.

[B]

Yes. She needs to be comforted.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Poor Susan.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Because as she tells it, she was minding her own business, as per usual.

[A]

She had a miserable headache.

[B]

Well, from all those screaming kids.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Ajika, out of the clear blue sky, starts pounding on the door.

[A]

All of a sudden she comes out.

[B]

And she is just back banging on my door. Like, go away, I'm not, not dealing with you tonight.

[A]

And then she started banging so hard.

[B]

Everything starts shaking. I'm like, you really need to leave.

[A]

And I said, I'm gonna fucking kill you.

[B]

And she's just banging me, banging away.

[A]

Screaming, I'm going to fucking kill you. Now. This did not happen. When we get to trial, people will testify she never said any of that.

[B]

Now, now the killer says something really important here. And she does this kind of manipulation from the very beginning. She says, and this is total, like other women have said this and they've meant it. And it's like Nicole Brown Simpson said it on the phone call. The killer says, oh my God, she's really going to kill me this time.

[A]

Yes, because she hurt me before. She's citing the fact that she threw the sign at her, which she didn't.

[B]

Do, implying that is violent and has attacked her in the past. She's really going to kill me this time.

[A]

Because this is what you have. The stand your ground law only is in effect if you feel an actual imminent threat of death.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My question is this. They're going to ask her down the road, did you. Are we going to find you researching stand your ground law like on your Google search history or on your phone? Like, do people like this get a phone call from somebody at 2 in the morning? Don't get on your computer. Here's what you say, yeah, some stranger calls or two in the morning, you know what I mean? Break, you know, like, so the big.

[B]

Question is, well, why didn't she call 911? Miss, I call 911 at the drop of a hat. She calls 911 all day, every day. But now she goes, I couldn't find my phone. Yeah, we will get to that in a second. Because what happens is she just called 91 1, remember?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She was told they are on their way. Lock your doors, lock your windows, stay safe, we will be there in a minute.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So, and they said, call back if anything else happens.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So even as she's telling the story, she's completely emotionless. There's no fear, there's no panic, there's nothing. I know people. But she's full of shit. I'm not going to even say it. I'm not even going to say it.

[A]

Yes, but you would think that a psychopath like her would have the common sense to feign a tear, which she will. She'll try in a minute.

[B]

Right? But what she is. She does that thing. She has excuses for everything. She has a reason for everything. And she's doing this, like, exasperated tone, like, you should sympathize with her because.

[A]

To her, everything she did is justified.

[B]

Well, and because she's talking to two white cops.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

She's doing that knowing tone that. You guys totally get where I'm coming from.

[A]

They have been so deferential to her. Even, like, every time they've called her, they've treated her like. You keep saying, like. Like their crazy old grandmother.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and it's just like, imagine she's in any actual trouble. She's just going to explain what happens in her crazy, lying brain.

[B]

And, like, as.

[A]

Yes, yes. Right.

[B]

These people, you know how they get. They're so loud. My splitting headache. This crazy, angry black woman, like, this is the dog whistles, the.

[A]

And she's explaining away everything that we learned, like the throwing of the roller skate. She says, they leave their garbage in my yard all the time. The other day I came out, I almost killed myself on that roller skate.

[B]

Too bad. Ooh. Really, really dodged that one.

[A]

Oh, my God. And so she says, when I came out because he was here for the iPad, I tossed it in a different direction. No intention of hurting him. Didn't throw it anywhere near him.

[B]

Now, also remember, she fired a locked door.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the cops ask her, my question.

[A]

Is, how do you know what you're firing at when you're firing through a door that you can't see through when you don't know if there's also a child outside standing there or. I mean, basically, I'm asking you, what were you aiming at and what were you intending to do when you fired that gun? I was just fearful of my life.

[B]

What were you. You aiming at?

[A]

Right.

[B]

To get her to say it, and she can't.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And she's like. And they were like, well, did you know if there was a child there or not? Like, was that. Did that occur to you? And she goes, no, no, no, no, no. The company line is, I was in fear for my life.

[A]

Yes, yes. You see these bros on TikTok at Walmart saying it to people? You know what I mean? I'm afraid. I'm afraid. I'm afraid knowing they've got a gun on their hip.

[B]

Right. That's like what Google told her to say.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

So while the police. Police investigate, Susan is free. She's not arrested. She's not even charged.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And of course, everyone is furious. They are protesting justice for AJ justice for children, justice for her community. And someone says, if it was one of us. And this is a black woman saying this, she goes, if it was one of us, we'd be in custody. She's 1000% right.

[A]

That woman says it so calmly. It is un. It's infuriating, but it is unbelievable. The level of self control is mind blowing to me. And the cops are saying, and I'm not defending them, I'm just saying what we're told. They're saying it's not that we aren't ever going to arrest her, but there are certain criteria that stand your ground law covers. And we have to do the investigation in order to, like, see if this is covered under that. And this woman saying, right, do the investigation. Put that in jail while you're doing it. Because if it were me, I would be in jail.

[B]

And she's 100% right.

[A]

And they don't have anything to say back to that.

[B]

Right? They're like, yeah, well, I. I'd be pissed. If it was my kid too, I'd be pissed. Like, okay, we'll fucking do something about it.

[A]

And then we start to hear voiceover from the neighbors saying, like, wait, was it that crazy white lady? I'm. It's sad, but I'm not surprised. She's a total live w. Are like.

[B]

Oh, Ajika told me about this white woman who was terrorizing the community.

[A]

Yes, yes.

[B]

So June 5, 2023, Susan the killer gets a police escort to her apartment, which has been destroyed, obviously. And the cops go to speak to the community. Oh, my God, the parents and the kids. And they are rightfully enraged.

[A]

I mean, because what's happening is Susan is like, trying to get stuff out of her house. The cops are there for everybody's protection. The neighbors are screaming at her. They go and they talk to this one mother who's been with us the whole time. The whole time. She's the one who's like, none of these are my kids, but they're all my kids. And the cop is. The cop thinks he's doing the right thing, trying to calm her down. And he says to her, I mean, the words coming out of his mouth, he says, I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm here because she called me. She's.

[B]

She. Because she knows better than to be out here alone. That's why she got people with her, because she knows.

[A]

Okay, but listen, listen to me.

[B]

See what happened to the lady house.

[A]

Just make my life a little bit easier, okay?

[B]

Your life easier?

[A]

I'm not here.

[B]

Make your life easier. Are you fucking kidding me?

[A]

I'm not here to start anything.

[B]

Make your life easier. Are you fucking kidding me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Her best friend was murdered in cold blood in front of all of their kids.

[A]

It's one of those things where the cop thinks he's saying the right thing. He thinks he's like, winking at her, like, I'm on your side here. Just the words coming out of it. Make my life a little bit easier.

[B]

Were you there one of the time. Did you respond to any of these phone calls where she was like, the miserable old crank and just a nuisance lady? To even say, like, we're not all in this together together anymore, guy.

[A]

We never were.

[B]

We never were. But like, now they're not. Even though he's talking to a white woman, she's still a member of that community. That was her dear friend who was murdered in cold blood in front of all of our children.

[A]

We're not friends.

[B]

None of this is easy. And it's never gonna get easy.

[A]

No. And part of the reason we're here is because you cop didn't do anything about this. You never made her understand that she was wrong. Why don't you, like, rather than calling her a psycho behind her back, why don't you tell her that she's acting crazy and don't do this anymore?

[B]

Or thinking maybe I shouldn't give the kids kids loud fireworks to instigate her on New Year's Eve? Yes, that was a funny little thing, but that shows that they weren't thinking. They weren't playing the state through to the end.

[A]

But once again, if we can learn something from some of these documentaries, like, the cops need to, like, stop treating these old white people like the friend, like the friendly grandma. Look what happens when you do, especially in a state with a stand your ground law. You know, like all of these neighborhood situations need to be treated like a tinder box that could explode anymore moment. Because they can.

[B]

Right? Right. June 6, 2023. The killer's final interview. Now the cops want to, quote, clarify some things, which means they have caught her in many, many lies. Yes, that's what happens here.

[A]

And thank God, because like this easily could have gone the other way, you know, but anyway, we're back in the interrogation room now. The cops come back in and they mean business this time. Like before, they were kind of kid glovesy, handsy. Like they sort of like giving her some, like, leeway. They are here to catch her in. In lies.

[B]

They go, is there any reason why Anyone would have a video of you using, like, I don't know, the N word, which means they have video of her using the N word. Now, she got her response. She goes, well, I. Yeah, if I let it slip out, like, I'm sorry. I guess. I mean, what would happen for you.

[A]

To say something like that?

[B]

If they were being extraordinarily rude or if they were just. I was always taught the N word would meant that you were just being unlawful. You know, dirty. Just. I don't know. Generally not being pleasant. Unlawful, dirty, dirty. Quote.

[A]

Generally not being pleasant.

[B]

My jaw. I know, was on the floor.

[A]

What? Her saying, that is horrific, but her not knowing not to say it tells us everything we need to know about her.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Now, also remember, like, the guilt burps with Durst.

[A]

Oh, my God, yes.

[B]

Her tell is good gravy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Whenever they ask her a question, her response is good gravy. I don't. Oh, we got a big lie coming up.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So. Cause once again, like, the end.

[A]

I hadn't thought about those der sulfur burps in such a long time, but.

[B]

It'S the same thing. Like, good gravy is like, oh, the mask is fully up.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. She's like victim Susan.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Not the Susan that screams one minute. That's the real Susan. That's. That's her. That's real. Good gravy means mask fully engaged.

[A]

I'm just saying, like, your SNL audition would have been off the hook. Like, I would love to have seen, like, your impression. Like, oh, my God, So good.

[B]

That's hilarious. So once again, her story is the killer minding her own fucking business. Did she just ram a gate the night before? Who the hell knows?

[A]

Who knows?

[B]

She's sitting there innocently minding her own business. And her story is that Ajika came banging on the door, threatening to kill her. This went on and on and on for minutes on end. She didn't know when it was gonna end. It was terrifying. The house was shaking.

[A]

Y.

[B]

And she couldn't find her phone, remember? Because she just used that phone to call the cops.

[A]

Now, this is really important.

[B]

And they told her, stay put, lock everything. We are on the way. We'll be there in two minutes.

[A]

Yes. And they lock her into her story. Ten minutes go by, according to Susan. Ten minutes go by, then Audica comes over and is pounding on the door. Susan has been in such a tizzy, she's lost her phone. She doesn't know what to Do. And that's when she gets her go.

[B]

It was a harrowing 10 minutes at least. Could have been an hour at least. She knows.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The real truth is that the killer called 911. Two minutes later, she called again.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The 911 call. Fake crying, saying she shot and killed ajika. Okay. Yeah, two minutes.

[A]

So the first 911 call starts at 8:54. It ends at 8:59. It was a five minute call. She's told the cops are on their way. If anything happens, if anything escalates, you call us back.

[B]

This woman was so was thrilled to call 911. Now suddenly, in two minutes, she can't find her phone. Bullshit.

[A]

Because she's saying for. For text. I was scared. I was nervous. Then Ajika shows up. £ £ £ £ £ on the door. But then the cops say to her, no. So the second 911 call where you called, lady was banging on my door. I shot her through the door. That call came into our call center. It was received at 9:01, which is two minutes after you hung up with the communications center the first time. So that's two minutes that all these things that you say occur happened at your front door. You ended the Last call with 91 1. At 8:59, your next call saying that you shot this woman was at 9:01. Two minutes later. And Susan's got this whole story about all the terror that Aja. She was banging for minutes and minutes, and then she stopped for a minute and then she started again even louder, saying, I'm gonna kill you. All of this transpired over the course of like 10, no, two minutes.

[B]

And the woman? Witnesses have Ajika knocked twice. Bang.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Every witness says that.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the math doesn't. Math? The time doesn't match up. So she used Ajika's own child as bait.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Lured Ajika to the house, baited her, shot her and killed her and murdered her.

[A]

Yes. And that was the plan.

[B]

And then the guy.

[A]

Remember she wouldn't give the iPad back. She needed a reason for Ajika to.

[B]

Come there to say, go tell your mother. And then she did something that she knew would make any mother or any human fucking snap. You threw a what at my kid? Yeah, one of those heavy roller skates. This was all by design.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So the cops are like, okay, cool story. Also, another quick quest. If we were to look through, like your phone or your computer, would we. And remember, when they do this, it means this has happened.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Would we by any chance find anything about the stand? Your Ground law. Like, maybe, perhaps. Would the digital forensics say that, like, you called 911 and then you searched stand your ground and then you murdered Ajika? Like, is there a world where that would be? And she's just like, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And now I am wondering, like, does her stomach fall into her butt a little bit?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Does she maybe wonder, oh, I wonder if the stand your ground thing is going to work because she's so obviously caught the video of the N word. The time doesn't match.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The Internet searches. Is she starting to feel uncomfortable? I sure hope so. She doesn't have a single emotion while she's telling all these lies. And finally one of the cops says to her, you said earlier that you are cruising face. Like, what kind of stuff did you see about you and this, like, while you were on Facebook? And she's like, well, all of this stuff that isn't true about me. All of these lies that those people were telling me. And the cop goes, you want to know what I saw?

[A]

You know what I saw? I saw four kids that no longer have a mother. I think you know what you did was wrong. I think you know that There were already deputies on the way. You had just disconnected. Within two minutes, a shot was fired through that door. That. That's. There's no way to justify that.

[B]

There's no way to justify what you're saying with the actual time that we know is true.

[A]

Right. What he's saying to her is you knew deputies were on the way, and you knew you needed to kill her before they got there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Tonight was the night. This was the last process. This was it. This was. You had the iPad. She was there. It was happening.

[B]

Yeah. Because she's never going to come over again. Because if we cool. If cooler heads prevail and we break you up, Ajika's never gonna take the bait again.

[A]

That's exactly right. That's exactly right.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So she's gonna be charged with manslaughter. She's told she's charged with manslaughter.

[A]

It seems like she doesn't even know what that means.

[B]

No, she's like, stand your ground. I have the free get out of jail free card. I'm white and old and playing dumb.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Hello. So they're gonna leave her alone for a minute. Okay. Now they pulled out. They pull out a very old police tactic. This is.

[A]

Feels very Columbo to me.

[B]

They do this in the wire, actually.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

And they say this is all bu. But they Go look. So Ajika had four kids. Obviously, we can't let you speak to them directly, but here's a notepad and a pen.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And if you have something you want to write to them, you're more than welcome. You don't have to, but if you want to, whatever is on your. On your heart, in your mind.

[A]

She looks like they are speaking another language to her. It does not.

[B]

My heart.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

My what?

[A]

She. It makes no sense to her that anybody would want to do.

[B]

And she's like, why would I give a shit about her. Her kids, who made my life hell? I'm the victim here.

[A]

She has expressed not an ounce of remorse. At one point, when they tell her that Ajika died, she puts her head down to, like, pretend that she's crying. And she comes up and there's no tear. You know what I mean? Like, she's not expressed a single moment of remorse.

[B]

They're not human to her.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

So they leave. Takes a sip of water. She rubs her eyes.

[A]

She looks so annoyed when they leave. She can't believe they expect her to do work now.

[B]

Now I have to fucking write this bullshit letter to these stupid fucking kids who've made my life miserable and.

[A]

Exactly that.

[B]

She writes, begrudgingly, a paragraph that we will get to in a moment.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The cops come back in.

[A]

This is. You gotta give us the voice.

[B]

This is. They're like, all right, so you're gonna go with this deputy here. No. They're like, I'm sorry. What?

[A]

She turns it to.

[B]

She turns it to Jack Burger. I'm sorry. I can't. Don't hate me.

[A]

No, I'm sorry. No. No. What?

[B]

I can't.

[A]

What's wrong? What's going on? She's.

[B]

Can't.

[A]

Sort of.

[B]

Can't do this.

[A]

Well, I mean, we're. Unfortunately, we're to that point where that's what's gonna happen.

[B]

I'm not gonna.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Yes, you are. She was.

[A]

I'm sorry. No, I'm not. No, I'm not.

[B]

You're gonna go. No, I'm not.

[A]

No.

[B]

You're gonna get booked. No, I'm not.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

Fingerprinted. No, I'm not.

[A]

I'm so sorry. I can't do this.

[B]

They're gonna take your pictures. Nuh. At one point, she goes, nuh. It'll be arraigned in the morning. I said, can you just fucking grab her and shove her down the hallway? Where is the police brutality when you need it?

[A]

Well, honestly, where is it?

[B]

I'm asking.

[A]

No, I Know it's too much. Much. It is. Because they start to say to her, we can do. The cop goes, we can do this the easy way or the very, very hard way.

[B]

Do it the fucking hard way.

[A]

I know.

[B]

For once, please, like, where is it when you need it? This police brutality.

[A]

These men are very, very afraid about having to get physical with this woman. They do. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

Because she's white and she's old. And I think it's this internalized, like, whatever the fuck, but, like, enough they.

[A]

They give her. So remember that black dad on the driveway that they were best friends with? 25 minutes. If it had been that guy, he'd have been on the ground with their foot on his neck in five seconds. And I am not saying that. I want to be really clear when I say that image. I mean it. I am not saying that as a joke.

[B]

No, I don't think you are.

[A]

Yeah. No, I'm not saying that to you. I'm saying that to the listening audience.

[B]

Grab her by the collar of her shirt and fucking drag her kicking and screaming to wherever she has to go.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I don't understand. Eventually, they're like, you know, let's just go ahead and put the handcuffs on her. And I'm like, is this the hard way for this?

[A]

Because then she stands up, she goes.

[B]

I can't do this. And they're like, girl, you made this happen. This is what you wanted. It's been two years of your. Your hard work, and now we're here.

[A]

She read one Yahoo article about stand your ground and thought she got a Jedi star. Yeah, exactly, Korra.

[B]

She goes, I don't feel well. And they go, okay, well, we have medical personnel, right? If you just come right this way.

[A]

I really was like, how is this going to end? Because it feels like they're just going to keep saying, yes, no. Yes, no. Yeah, for an hour. We're going to go to the jail. There's no changing this.

[B]

There's no stopping it.

[A]

I don't care. Kill me. We're not going to kill anybody. We're going to. We're going to take you to the jail. We'd rather you walk on your own. We'd rather you just walk down there. It'd be so much better for everybody if we could just walk down the jail. Can you just stand up for me?

[B]

No. And he goes, we're not gonna kill anyone.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, not like how you just did, right?

[B]

Or not like we have in the past Right. But now we're just gonna be super, super nice. And they're like, what's the plan, Suz? You're just gonna like sit here all night?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She goes, I don't know what I'm gonna do. Probably die of a heart attack. And I'm like, I know. Now it's time for the hard way. Everybody I know. Now it's time for the fucking hard way. Get her on the ground and fucking drag her ass to hell and back. Figuratively and literally. I've had enough. So finally, like, they just take her.

[A]

Finally.

[B]

She's like, okay.

[A]

She gets up and she goes.

[B]

After all that. She goes. The three of them are standing there like, Suze. And I'm like, can we stop? But he comes in and he picks up and he knows there's a camera here. He doesn't even look up. But he reads the note. And very robotically and slowly. I know, everyone. I said the note. Jersey Shore. I get it. I know who wrote the note. Used to. Very robotically and slowly. I am so sorry. You barely read a handwri. Yeah. I am so sorry for your loss. I never meant to kill your mother. I was terrified your mom was going to kill me. I shot out of fear.

[A]

It's her. Stand your ground confession. She's just using the language, right?

[B]

He turns on a dime and walks out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And no, he's not giving that to the family. Everybody, that was a tactic. That was a move.

[A]

100%.

[B]

So we get the on screen text that says, and this is why this film was made. Everybody stand your ground. Laws have been linked to an 8 to 11% increase in hot homicide rates or roughly 700 additional deaths a year. Research has found huge racial disparities with white Americans. Much more likely to find success with self defense claims. Particularly when they kill black people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Susan was hoping she was going to be one of them.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. And then it cuts to the trial as the credits roll. Can I tell you how much I love that?

[B]

I loved it too.

[A]

I've never. Because I'm like, why do we still have six minutes left?

[B]

And I was nervous.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

I didn't know how this was gonna go well.

[A]

But my, my thing about running the trial over the credits is that who fucking cares? Like, we need to get justice. I'm glad she gets convicted. She gets 25 years. Great. But I loved the trial over the credits. Like, watch this if you want. Who cares about this piece of shit?

[B]

And she looks like a different person. She's aged About a thousand years.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She doesn't have that l' Oreal touch up for her roots.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Which look. My hair would look different in prison too.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Obviously this is not real.

[A]

Martha Stewart's. Did not. By the way. Apparently Martha Stewart looked like a million bucks with a peroxide imprin.

[B]

But I have to go a different color.

[A]

I don't think there's pink for sure.

[B]

But yeah, everyone would look different in prison. I'm just saying she has age. When you're. Sometimes your outside looks like you're inside. You know what I mean?

[A]

Because when the judge sentences her to the 25 years, she literally just nods like she doesn't care. She knows it's over and the trial.

[B]

Says what we already know. You know, like Ajika was not pounding on the door like the killer threw the roller skate. Also in the middle of this, we get the music supervisor Amani Burt Blackarach Smith, which is just fucking wow. Slow clap for Burt Blackarach. Hilarious. Thank you so much. I needed that. I was like, wait, what?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It was like a good thing to rewind for. I was like, imani Burt Blackrock. And he's like, his IMDb is awesome. Thankfully, she's found guilty.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know, 25 years. The presiding judge stated that he found the shooting to be based more on anger than in fear.

[A]

Yes, more of that.

[B]

Yeah. This is dedicated to Achica Owens legacy, which is her children Isaac, Israel, Africa and Titus. Also, being a shitty person runs in the family because her sister is named Ellen and she was charged with child neglect. Look up that case if you want your day to be ruined.

[A]

In the documentary, she's the one that's at the house collecting the cats with her after all is said and done.

[B]

Yeah. Look that case up. I take care. But look at it. She's. I mean, it runs in the family. It's genetic.

[A]

And what's interesting about that is that it's her son, when they're at that, like her young son who's like 5 or 6, looks at the camera and goes, guns are dangerous.

[B]

And the cops like, yup.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Also, I can't believe they left this out. But this is a fund that was started. So this is. It's standing in the gap fund. It's standinginthegapfund.org It's a family led effort that responds to race based violence by easing finance financial burdens and supporting community rooted healing. So there are two links. I donated to both. One is just for this and one is for Ajka's family.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So standinginthegapfund.org if you want to donate to that and maybe make some change if you. If you're like, I feel shitty. What can I do? Here's one thing you can do.

[A]

Yep. Oh my God, girl, we did.

[B]

We did the purple Perfect neighbor.

[A]

Anything but yeah, you know, fam, we love you. Please take care. Go hug somebody that you love. This was. This was a really tough one. Thanks for sticking with us through it. And as Julian says, we need to watch it, we need to see it, we need to look at it. All white people sit with the uncomfortability.

[B]

It's required viewing.

[A]

What are we doing next?

[B]

Girl, we are doing what happened to Karen Silkwood. The lost tapes.

[A]

Oh, shit. Does that sound like the Cher movie?

[B]

Meryl Streep.

[A]

Yeah, but it's sharing that too.

[B]

She might be.

[A]

I think so. Well, interesting. We'll do it.

[B]

This is crazy. This is like a. It's like a conspiracy thing. Like she was a whistleblower and then she like died mysteriously. Was it mysterious? I don't know. We're gonna like go back and look at what happened and what she was trying to do and like it's a very famous like kind of like historical case for sure.

[A]

This shower, like. Oh my God.

[B]

I know. Which is horrifying.

[A]

Do we. Do we have to see it in the documentary?

[B]

They show like the clip from the movie. From Meryl Streep's movie.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then usually we try to every once in a while have like, oh, here's a story from history that we haven't covered. So this is one of those things.

[A]

All right, well stay tuned for the trailer for that and we love you.

[B]

We love you. Stay safe out there. Seriously.

[A]

Bye. Bye. A mystery so riveting it inspired an Oscar nominated film.

[B]

They're trying to kill me.

[A]

They want me to stop what I'm doing.

[B]

Inside the renewed investigation into Karen Silkwood's death.

[A]

They run her off the rut. This poor girl was killed. She was murdered. I tell you.

[B]

Karen, you better get the out of there.

[A]

I'm gonna shut him down before I go. We believe that she brushed up against one of the deepest, darkest secrets held by the United States.

[B]

The new clues. Here they are.

[A]

They are from never before heard audio tapes. I don't want any trouble on my job. I don't want any trouble with my car or anything else. To the high tech examination of 50 year old evidence. They told me there's something about the crash site that we hadn't known before, so we're going to check it out. Could a decades old case get blown wide open? I wish the truth would come out. I wish names would come out.

[B]

One minute.