471: Thirst Trap: The Fame. The Fantasy. The Fallout

Summary

True Crime Obsessed, Episode 471: "Thirst Trap: The Fame. The Fantasy. The Fallout"

Release Date: November 25, 2025
Podcast Hosts: Patty & Tracy
Documentary discussed: "Thirst Trap: The Fame. The Fantasy. The Fallout" (Paramount+)
Theme: The meteoric rise and messy fallout of TikTok heartthrob William White, his middle-aged fandom, online parasocial drama, and the dysfunctional intersections between influencer and audience.

---

Overview

In this episode, Patty and Tracy recap and dissect "Thirst Trap," a two-part documentary focused on William White, a 21-year-old who skyrocketed to social media fame by sexually suggestive lip-syncing of retro pop hits on TikTok. The documentary explores his overwhelmingly middle-aged, female fanbase; the transactional and sometimes toxic nature of online parasocial relationships; the unregulated mess of internet fame; and the personal and collective fallout when a community’s infatuation turns poisonous. The hosts tackle the topic with their signature wit, sass, and empathy—while wrestling with the ickier dynamics of lust, money, boundaries, and blurred reality online.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. William White’s Rise: Viral Fame and Demographics

• [03:05] Patty: "21-year-old William White now has 2 million friends, followers. [...] We gave up our lives to raise children, be married. But Whitey, your phenomena keyed us back into that fun part of our lives."
• William White lip-syncs '80s and '90s hits (iconically, "Mandy" by Barry Manilow) and does flirtatious, shirtless videos, attracting a largely older female audience—many of whom self-identify as "cougars" and inject money, attention, and sexual energy into his content.
• Barf Meter: Both hosts are semi-fascinated, semi-repulsed, with "barf" jokes and acknowledging the cringiness (e.g., [00:53] Tracy: "It's so barf.").
• The unique dynamic: his fans lust after him and/or want to mother him, which blurs lines in unsettling (yet culturally familiar) ways.

2. Transactional Parasocial Relationships

• Tracy and Patty explore how William's community operates through money-for-attention dynamics (e.g., gifts, PayPal shoutouts), paralleling cam-girl culture—but with reversed genders.
• [05:28] Tracy: "It's a very transactional thing. He's like, I'm going to be here, I'm going to be flirty, I'm going to be cute, maybe take my shirt off sometimes, and you're going to give me that money."
• The hosts recognize this isn't new: men have been spending money for women's attention forever. Only the gender roles have reversed ("tale as old as dirt").

3. Internet Persona vs. Real Self

• Discussion about how William (and many influencers) conflate their online persona with real self, resulting in a "personality of a wet newspaper" ([06:00] Patty), and the disconnect becomes glaring as his interactions grow more transactional and performative.
• Quote [06:21] Tracy: "I think there is an interesting conversation to be had here... about how you can sort of develop a persona on the Internet and sort of be that person for people. In a way, it’s what we do... But the internet doesn’t just allow you to have nice things. They gotta take it away from them.”

4. Fan Community Dynamics and Fanaticism

• Segmented fandom: subgroups like "Grotto Girls," "Gucci Gang Girls," and "Williams Angels" establish complex, competitive hierarchies ([18:04] Patty: "Grotto Girls are at the top of the fan club pyramid.").
• Entrance to elite groups means submitting personal info, Google forms, and strict engagement rules—mirroring cult-like levels of commitment ([18:32] Tracy: "They're collecting your information. Don't do this.").
• Competitive spending and attention-seeking spiral into absurd extremes—fans miss funerals and spend up to $200,000 on him.
  • Memorable Moment [12:08] Tracy about 'Gutter Girl': "In four years, I've missed two lives. One was at my son's funeral. One was because of her son's funeral. We get no more information on that."
  • [26:00] Tracy: "This is where Gutter Girl tells us she's given him between $100 and $200,000 of her own money."

5. Parasitic Fame: Crumbling Boundaries and IRL Encounters

• Fans begin sending gifts to William’s house, paying restaurant bills, and making “pilgrimages” to his hometown, expecting to meet him by stalking his public social posts.
  • [28:35] Patty: "The women will call the restaurant and pick up the tab and then they'll try to out call each other."
• William feebly tries to set boundaries after an expensive luggage drop-off, but is inconsistent—suggesting he doesn’t truly want the attention (and gifts) to stop.
  • [31:08] Patty: "Now this goes badly really fast because the Grotto girls get him like super expensive luggage and they can’t even ship it. [...] Boundaries have been crossed."
• Both sides (William and fans) contribute to the cycle—neither learning or meaningfully adapting.

6. Sexual Encounters and Their Fallout

• The documentary’s centerpiece: a fan (“Disney Mama”/Emily) describes a sexual encounter with William.
  • [40:11] Emily recounts: "He allegedly says to her... 'Damn, I got some hot moms.' Fucking barf."
  • Emily describes feeling coerced into sex, “finally agreed... didn’t want to be the fan that let him down.” This underscores the power imbalance and emotional risks in fan/celebrity interactions ([43:16] Patty).
  • The hosts highlight the blurred, coercive consent and ultimate toxicity.
• The fallout: Emily is attacked by other fans, doxxed, targeted at work and at home, vilified as a predator (absurdly), and loses her place in the online community.
  • [45:05] Storm: "And she's very forcefully slamming these barn doors... You need to tell me what the hell's going on. I'm going to call the cops."
  • [45:53] Patty: "Because what the fans are saying is that Emily sexually assaulted him. She raped him, she forced him, she drugged him, she stalked him."

7. Toxicity, Doxxing, and Fan Wars

• Rivalries lead to organized harassment, doxing, fake nude leaks, and even endangering participants’ children and pets.
  • [61:12] Patty: “They’re calling your job to get you fired. They're threatening your kids. They're like actual valid threats on your lives. On the lives of your pets."
• The “Grotto Girls” become an insular, almost mafia-like presence; orchestrating group attacks, running background checks, and policing who’s allowed access to William or the community.

8. Scandals: Leaked Sexual Content and Escalating Drama

• A cache of explicit images/videos (some allegedly with his cousin) is leaked and sold online.
  • [54:01] Storm: “I wake up one morning, and I have tons of pictures and videos of Will and his cousin jacking off in the bathroom.”
  • The hosts (and guests) are floored by the cousin aspect but note it’s never addressed again.
  • Storm attempts to take the material down for William’s sake; the fandom’s cultist, group-damage mode intensifies.

9. Addiction, Community Collapse, and Lack of Growth

• As the chaos escalates, William describes addiction to weed, attention, and his online persona, admitting his emotional development was stunted by instant fame and instant gratification.
  • [67:16] William: “Man, it has pinned me down… there’s still that 16-year-old boy in there that just has not grown up emotionally…”
  • Despite moments of self-awareness, he continually resumes the same unhealthy habits and dynamics, unable to meaningfully “quit” or set boundaries.

10. The Fallout: Loneliness, Fan Disillusionment, and Cyclical Drama

• The hosts reflect on how, for many fans, the obsession (and its accompanying drama) fills a void—but ultimately brings misery, not happiness.
  • [62:41] Patty: "If this has become the biggest thing and it's become this real to you...there's a bigger problem, and it's never going to feed you."
• Even after public “quits,” William always returns online, unable to walk away from attention or money.
• Despite the abuse, some fans remain loyal to both William and the toxic groups, a testament to community over individual wellbeing.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On parasocial confusion:
  • [05:47] Patty: “I think we've reached the point in Internet fame and influencer, content creator thing where people are confusing their online personas for who they actually are. [...] This guy has the personality of a wet newspaper.”
• On excessive fandom:
  • [12:08] Tracy (about Gutter Girl): “In four years, I've missed two lives. One was at my son's funeral.”
• On gendered double standards:
  • [07:48] Patty: “These women aren't necessarily doing anything that men haven’t been doing since the beginning of time.”
• On the transactional nature:
  • [23:51] Jessica: “I started... it went from 0 to 60,000 in like one night. I woke up and it was at noon, $60,000.”
• On community toxicity:
  • [61:57] Patty: “Christina the reporter is like, the fandom works better than the FBI. They had somebody running background checks on these people...if they didn't like you, they're doxing you.”
• On the cousin sex tape scandal:
  • [54:01] Storm: “...tons of pictures and videos of Will and his cousin jacking off in the bathroom.”
  • [55:58] Patty: “But like at the same time, Storm wants to dismantle the whole Grotto girls group.”
• On collapse and lessons unlearned:
  • [67:48] Patty: “Because it's not an option for him. Like, he could have stood up for Disney Mama. He didn't. He could have stopped all the drama at any time. He didn't.”
• On the vapid cycle:
  • [68:01] Tracy: "Like he's a 21 year old kid badly lip syncing to Barry Manilow. How did we get from there to here?"

---

Key Segment Timestamps

• [03:00–07:00] — William’s rise, demographics, and the fan/money dynamic.
• [12:08–13:00] — Gutter Girl’s extreme commitment.
• [18:04–19:08] — Grotto Girls and community segmentation.
• [26:00–26:13] — Financial extremes: $100k–$200k spent.
• [28:35–29:28] — Real-life boundary-breaking (gifts, stalkings, paying restaurant tabs).
• [39:11–44:09] — Disney Mama encounter and aftermath.
• [54:01–57:58] — Explicit leaks, cousin scandal, and the fandom’s dark side.
• [61:12–64:10] — Community toxicity, bullying, and real-world consequences.
• [67:16–68:01] — William’s self-reflection on addiction, inability to change.
• [71:52–72:11] — The cycle continues: Quit, return, repeat.

---

Tone & Takeaway

Patty and Tracy combine humor, disgust, and empathy as they dissect this uniquely modern tragedy/soap-opera—a cautionary tale of fame, loneliness, community, and commodified desire in the TikTok era. The episode is fast-paced, gossipy, and full of memorable quips—yet never loses sight of the gravity when things cross from silly into dangerous or destructive.

Their final message:
"Everyone, like, take a deep breath. If you recognize yourself in this, really seriously, take a minute. Like, don't end up like these people. Please, please, please, please do." – [72:36] Patty

---

For new listeners:
This summary covers all major narrative beats, controversies, and key insights while capturing TCO’s irreverent-yet-thoughtful tone. If you want the “full flavor,” listen for their signature comedic interplay and sharp social observations!

Transcript

[Tracy]

Fam, before we get to the show, we've got an announcement.

[Patty]

Yeah. We are doing a Black Friday closeout sale with our merch.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

So it starts this Friday. It's 30% off and it's everything that we have left. So it's nothing new, Nothing like made to order. It's everything that we have. It's a Black Friday closeout jam.

[Tracy]

Yeah. You can go to the link in the show notes or you can go to truecom obsessed.com, click on the merch link. We've always wanted to do this. It's like a sale. We're sort of unloading this stuff for the holidays.

[Patty]

Yeah. 30% off.

[Tracy]

30%. That's amazing.

[Patty]

Happy, happy. Buy for yourself or someone else or mostly for yourself. Treat yourself.

[Tracy]

Yourself for sure.

[Patty]

But yeah. And again, it's. It's not new merch.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

It's everything we have. So if, like, sizes might be sold out, like, we don't know what we have. It's just like the rest of our inventory.

[Tracy]

Yeah. Some of it lightly worn by me. Just kidding.

[Patty]

Oh, why, God, that would be.

[Tracy]

That would be exciting. No, it would.

[Patty]

Yes, it would. This is all very barfy.

[Tracy]

It's so barf.

[Patty]

Welcome to Barf Central.

[Tracy]

I mean, I'm looking forward to talking about it, but it's very barf.

[Patty]

Everyone needs to get a grip and go outside.

[Tracy]

I agree. Yeah. You know, get a grip.

[Jessica]

Who?

[Tracy]

The people who are obsessed with those Starbucks bear cups.

[Patty]

What is that?

[Tracy]

Oh, my God. The Starbucks bear cup. I thought it was a joke. People online are obsessed. I became obsessed as a joke, but then I became actually obsessed. Starbucks was releasing these holiday cups. Yes. And then one of them is like a glass bear. But the Starbucks were only getting like two at a time and the employees were buying them and people were lining up at like 4 in the morning to get them and then getting mad because the employees were buying them before the store even opened.

[Patty]

It's not just a design on the cup. It's like.

[Tracy]

No, it's an actual glass Starbucks bear cup. And so Natalie and I became jokingly obsessed. And then we became obsessed. I'm like, am I seeing you at Starbucks at 3 in the morning?

[Patty]

Why are they only giving 2?

[Tracy]

I don't know. Nobody knows. It's a very limited, short supply thing. But, like, the world for a week went insane.

[Patty]

Oh, my God.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

Lincoln, you miss it.

[Tracy]

I know. Hi, Jillian Benzivali.

[Patty]

Hi. Patrick Hines.

[Tracy]

Hey, guess what? We have a Patreon.

[Patty]

We do.

[Tracy]

If you want more. Jillian and me and you want more amazing episodes and buy more. I'm Talking like over 500 full ad free bonus episodes.

[Patty]

Several hundred episodes.

[Tracy]

You get those all at the $5 level and you get them the second you sign. And we're talking about like the jinx. We're Talking about Madeline McCann back in the day.

[Patty]

We're talking about we did Amy Bradley.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Patty]

We're doing stalking Samantha right now.

[Tracy]

Yeah. We can never remember the ones that are there because like it changes every three weeks. But go check it out. Patreon.com truecom obsessed. You can also get ad free versions of these episodes. We've got a tier where we send you stuff, including the holiday calendar that's coming out very soon. What else we got to tell them, girl?

[Patty]

Facebook.

[Tracy]

Oh, yeah, we got a Facebook group.

[Patty]

We have a Facebook group as well with like a lot of people.

[Tracy]

Almost 60,000 people in there. It's really fun. True crime obsessed podcast discussion group. Go get in there, check it out, make some friends. Post about the episodes. Post about whatever you want, actually. What are we talking about today, girl?

[Patty]

Right? This is called thirst trap. The fame, the fantasy, the fallout. It's on Paramount. It's two episodes, mostly fluff. So we're gonna do it as one documentary.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Episode one is called Rise of a TikTok heartthrob.

[Jessica]

Ugh.

[Tracy]

If you haven't seen William White on your social media feeds recently, lip syncing to retro hits, well then check your phone.

[Patty]

It's probably broken.

[Emily]

21 year old William White now has.

[Patty]

2 million friends followers. We gave up our lives to raise children, be married. But whitey, your phenomena keyed us back.

[Kate]

Into that fun part of our lives.

[Patty]

Everybody knows William White is the cougar.

[Jessica]

Panty remover the older fans spend. They have money.

[Tracy]

I've probably given him 100 to $200,000.

[Emily]

It was kind of addictive thing to get him to say your name.

[Jessica]

Thank you, Karen with PayPal.

[Kate]

Watching William's Tik to, I was surprised at the feelings that were coming up within me.

[Jessica]

I feel like a lot of my fans needed to feel young again, like gain a spark back.

[Patty]

I've been lusting after William White, who's younger than my son.

[Emily]

You'll always want me.

[Tracy]

It's one of those that starts about 10 times.

[Patty]

Yes.

[Tracy]

And one of the times it starts we see this kid, William James. Is his name William James? William James White. Is that his name? He says, I'm a tiktoker. Just a full time beauty, hot guy, funny all around kind of person that people love. You know what I mean? He stole it from my bio.

[Patty]

I mean, you know, I'm going to dive into that in a little bit. But he got super famous on TikTok for lip syncing Mandy by Barry Manilow, which of course makes me think of Can't Hardly Wait when Lauren Ambrose is like, I heard the song was about his dog.

[Tracy]

Oh, is it?

[Patty]

I don't know.

[Tracy]

It's funny. Like, he lip syncs a lot of these, like, 80s songs. And it really took me back. I was like, that shit is good.

[Patty]

He's bad at lip syncing them.

[Tracy]

But I think that's the point.

[Patty]

I don't know any of the words.

[Tracy]

I know, but I think that he's like. All he wants to do is get his little kissy face up into the camera and be like a pretty boy in the camera.

[Patty]

Yeah. So he's like, a lot of winking, a lot of lip licking. Right. There's a woman who's says, this is like, right before we even start. Like, all of these women who are much older than him, we have to say it. That's the point.

[Tracy]

Well, that's. His whole demographic is like, the moms. Like, he's singing their music, like the music from when they were young to attract these women and, like, taking his shirt off.

[Patty]

This woman says, we gave up our lives to raise children and be married. And I said, woof.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

Apparently this William White guy is bringing the fun back in their lives because he's lip syncing all their favorite songs from back in the day.

[Tracy]

They love him and he loves them because as he said, I'm like one.

[Jessica]

Of the few that has older fans. The older fans spend.

[Tracy]

They have money, they love to spend money.

[Patty]

They have money to spend.

[Tracy]

And that's what this is all about. It's like we were saying before we started, you were saying, it's a very transactional thing. He's like, I'm going to be here, I'm going to be flirty, I'm going to be cute, maybe take my shirt off sometimes, and you're going to give me that money.

[Patty]

Like, it's just. Here's the thing, because he describes himself as a fan, funny all around, kind of person that people love. Now I'm gonna say something.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

I think we've reached the point in Internet fame and like, influencer, content creator thing where people are confusing their online Personas for who they actually are. Because this guy has the personality of a wet newspaper.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Like, he is a fucking drip and he's boring. But like, and I know that's a.

[Tracy]

Mean thing to say about wet newspapers.

[Patty]

I know you know what I mean.

[Tracy]

Can you leave them out of this?

[Patty]

Sorry. But I know that the audience has been like conflating the Persona with the person from the beginning, but it sounds like these creators are also doing it to them now. Yeah, she's like, I'm a fun loving guy that everyone. But the way he's saying it, he's like, I'm like a fun loving guy that everyone loves. He's a boring drip.

[Tracy]

I've never heard of this person before today. I've never seen any of his social media before today. Which is weird. I feel like, honestly, I'm the kind of person that would get served his shit or whatever. And like, I do think there is an interesting conversation to be had here, a about how you can sort of develop a Persona on the Internet and sort of be that person for people. In a way. It's what we do. Like, I'm not like I am with you the way that I am in everyday life all the time. And I think there's some fun to that, you know, Like, I think it's. And I think that he wanted to be that. The problem is that the Internet doesn't allow for that. The Internet doesn't just allow you to have nice things. They gotta take it away from them.

[Patty]

And he's just not good at the success that he got or whatever you wanna call it.

[Tracy]

And most people aren't. You know, he's People magazine's sexiest tiktoker. Who knew they had one of those?

[Patty]

Who knew his audience, so like we said, is exclusively older women, which is great because he wants money and those women have money and they wanna give him their money. And so they're doing like, they're also doing that thing that really creeps me out. We talked about this before. They can't. They don't know if they want to like, be in a sexual relationship with him or be his mother. And that is really gross to me.

[Tracy]

And can I say. Cause I agree, but, like, I think that it's not gross to them. Like, I think that there is a little bit of a. They like walking that line with this. Because a lot of these women will say, like, he's super hot, he's super sexy, but also he's like a young guy who's just a landscaper who wants to do more than that and I'm gonna help him.

[Patty]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy]

You know what I mean? Like, the intrigue of that sort of Blurriness is part of it for these people.

[Patty]

Exactly. And another thing that I guess we'll just say now, like, these women aren't necessarily doing anything that men haven't been doing since the beginning of time.

[Tracy]

Oh, my God. That's, like, such a good point.

[Patty]

This kind of transaction is older than dirt.

[Tracy]

Yes, yes.

[Patty]

Been done. I mean, there will definitely see some changes, but, like, oh, wow. Like, men are always giving women money like this. We've talked about cam girls and all.

[Tracy]

This stuff, so, like, no, you're so right. There's not even necessarily anything wrong with it. It's just, like, not. It's just not my journey. You know what I mean? Girl, Chewy is here. Tell us everything.

[Patty]

Chewy is my life. I love Chewy. I've been a real, real customer and subscriber for years.

[Tracy]

And look, girl, it's the holidays. Tis the season to be Chewy.

[Patty]

Yeah. So from November 4th to December 24th, you can share your pet's [e-mail] Chewy Claws.

[Emily]

Okay.

[Patty]

We're helping animals. So each wish triggers a donation of five meals to shelters and rescues across the country. And if you do it through the Chewy app, which I did today. Oh, my God. They'll double the donation. W. So I sent it, and it's cute. Like, when it goes through, it looks like Fiona, like, wrote a little note to Chewy Claws.

[Tracy]

Oh, my God. Stop.

[Patty]

And because Fiona is a very lucky puppet, she has everything she needs. So on her wish list, it says, my biggest holiday wish of all. I put being warm and cozy and fed and safe, because that's what I want all animals to feel.

[Tracy]

Oh, God.

[Patty]

So go to chewy.com chewy claws. Send your pet's wish, and it might just come true.

[Tracy]

I don't think I spoke this entire ad. I'm obsessed.

[Patty]

And also, shelters and rescues can join in on the joy by submitting their own wish list to Chewy Claws. And their community can find their wish list and donate items to her directly to them, which, you know, I'm going to be doing.

[Tracy]

I have a dog, too.

[Patty]

I know. Well, get golden on that. Chewy, you have to use the app.

[Tracy]

I know, I know. We love Chewy. We have also used Chewy for years.

[Patty]

Because when you. You double the meal through the app. Please, please, please.

[Tracy]

Okay, I will.

[Patty]

If you have the app, please do it.

[Tracy]

I will. All right, fam. Every pet deserves a wish come true. Send your pet's wish to chewy.com chewy claws. That's C L A U S. And it might become a reality.

[Patty]

Plus, your wish means Chewy will donate five meals to Pets in Need.

[Tracy]

Aww. Come on.

[Patty]

Tis the season.

[Emily]

Thanks.

[Tracy]

Chewy makes me want.

[Patty]

Exactly what.

[Tracy]

Isn't that what Chewbacca sounded like?

[Patty]

There it is. I was like, where exactly that.

[Tracy]

So we get the William backstory. He grew up playing hockey.

[Jessica]

It started out just going to hockey camps, seeing the hot guy that all the girls wanted. Because I'm like, why is that guy. Like, he's fucking sick. I want to be just like that guy. So then I would look at myself all the time in the mirror, flip my hair, try to look so pretty boy.

[Tracy]

And he just had to be that guy.

[Patty]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

Sometimes I think. Now I think that this guy is objectively very handsome. He just happens to be lucky to have been born with, like, an interesting look.

[Patty]

Really all he has.

[Tracy]

But I was gonna say, I think sometimes being extra hot, especially when you're young, is actually a bad thing.

[Patty]

I agree.

[Tracy]

Like, I think that it can really get in your way. I used to say that, like, the only reason I ever made anything of myself was because I was just, like, a strong five, but, like, I didn't have the distractions of the hot people.

[Patty]

But it doesn't have to be that way. Yeah. Like, I don't think he has really. I don't know. I don't think his mom is really seeing things clearly either. Like, there's a major lack of boundaries all across the board here with him. The women, the parents. It's just sort of like he's. He's sort of just like, floating around with no real guidance. And as a teenager, he should have had more of that.

[Tracy]

And then throw money into the mix. When you start getting sent the amount of money that this guy is making, you kind of are just like, I'll do anything to keep this going, like.

[Patty]

And he's making the money by sexualizing himself.

[Tracy]

Exactly.

[Patty]

You know?

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

So we meet a lot of his fans. I guess they're. They're way more than that, but we meet a lot of them.

[Tracy]

Can we talk about Amanda Williams, BB Girl? Or do you want to talk about Steph, Will's gutter girl?

[Patty]

Steph what?

[Tracy]

Will's gutter girl.

[Patty]

What?

[Tracy]

I know, but you know what? What I will say about these women is that they are unabashedly, these women. They love having these Personas. So they're into it.

[Patty]

Yeah. It's very clear that this is really important to them.

[Tracy]

Yeah. This gutter girl says, in four years, because this guy goes live all the time. Like, that's his thing. And she says, in four years, I've missed two lives. One live was at my son's funeral. One was because of her son's funeral. We get no more information on that.

[Patty]

They have alerts set. They're missing appointments, they're missing meetings. Like, they're.

[Tracy]

I'm kind of surprised she didn't like, step away from the funeral. For the lives.

[Patty]

Yeah. And like, a lot of these women are married and I don't think that they would be very happy if their husbands were doing this to some like, hot young woman.

[Tracy]

No, but. But at the same time, maybe you hit a point in a marriage where you're like, go ahead, honey, go have your TikTok fun.

[Patty]

Can you hold it for the fucking funeral of our son?

[Tracy]

And can you maybe not give him $200,000 of our money as gutter girl does over time?

[Patty]

Unbelievable.

[Tracy]

Hundred grand. That's insane.

[Patty]

His videos are. It's a lot of winking. It's a lot of lip licking. Shirtless. Sometimes he's in the shower. Like he knows what he'.

[Tracy]

The thing is, I'm immune to this because this kind of stuff is marketed towards me all the time that I just. I just don't ever stop it. If I was seeing it for the first time, whether it was him or anybody, I do understand the appeal. Like, there's something about the early TikTok, right? Where it's like people being unabashedly sexual and you're just allowed to watch it and they want you to. I really do get the appeal of it. Like, I'm bombarded with it. If you could see my for you page on my Instagram. So like, it doesn't do anything for me anymore because there's just so much. But back in the early days of this stuff, I do understand. Wait a minute. Like, he's just gonna take his shirt off and like, hump the bed. And I can just watch that.

[Patty]

He's just like, trying really hard at it.

[Tracy]

Uh huh.

[Patty]

And that is a major turnoff. It doesn't feel like, wow, he's effortlessly sexy. Even if it's like a cam girl who's like, at really like, trying to be super hot. Like, there's something more genuine sometimes. Like, he's just not doing it for her.

[Tracy]

I mean this as a 100% compliment. None of this is for you. You are just not the woman for this. You know what I mean? Like, and because you are, like, I mean, I could spend 10 minutes telling you about why I Feel that way, but it would make you uncomfortable because it's all compliments. And I know you don't like that, but this is not for you.

[Patty]

Okay. And I also would be too distracted that he's bad at lip syncing.

[Tracy]

I know. I don't mind.

[Patty]

I feel like you're taking me out of it.

[Tracy]

Oh, no. Am I kind of into it? Like, I don't know. Like. Like, he does.

[Patty]

He barely knows the words. It's just winking and lip licking.

[Tracy]

Shirtless.

[Patty]

Oh, my God.

[Tracy]

And the winking and, like, the women just, like, literally falling over. It's so weird.

[Patty]

So he does it to Mandy. That Barry Manilow song, which, by the.

[Tracy]

Way, is a banger.

[Patty]

It's just an old, like. And that's the thing. Like, it kind of. It's like, just fine as a pop song.

[Tracy]

I was, like, hearing. Cause we see Barry Manilow on the Kelly Clarkson show.

[Patty]

This lip sync video of Mandy went viral.

[Tracy]

Here it is.

[Patty]

You've got to see it.

[Tracy]

How did he find Mandy to lip sync to? He's so young, and you hear the song and you're like, fuck, that's a good song.

[Patty]

Good song. It just makes me think. I can't hardly wait for Ethan Embry.

[Tracy]

Totally.

[Patty]

So this goes, like, so crazy viral. Like, Kelly Clarkson and Barry Manilow are talking about it, right?

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

So he gets signed to IMG Models, and this is when we meet Storm. She's an influencer, and she goes viral for duetting William on Tik Tok, which.

[Tracy]

I think is kind of great. Like, you take somebody else's Internet virality and then you sort of piggyback on it. That's cool.

[Patty]

It's cool. And so she says, like, everything was great until it wasn't.

[Tracy]

But see, that's always the way. Like, everything. Like, when there's any sort of fandom, it doesn't matter what the fandom is. As soon as it gets big, it's something is going to happen.

[Patty]

And then the people who were there first are like, well, it's not the same as it was before. Everyone is entitled. Everyone gets mad. It's just like. And, like much.

[Tracy]

The Internet is just an unruly, wild, wild west, you know, like, and it's just. It's just going to happen.

[Patty]

Storm says if she knew then what she knew now, she would have fled the country. That's how bad it got.

[Tracy]

You know, Storm has got a really interesting journey here. I'm conflicted about her. My instinct is to like her because she's just kind of tough And I think that's cool.

[Patty]

Yeah, she wants to get shit done, but it's also like, we got to all take a step back.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

Then we get this close up video of him kissing.

[Jessica]

I love you.

[Patty]

That sound is making me crazy.

[Tracy]

Oh, I know.

[Patty]

Kicking his lips.

[Tracy]

The lips are too close.

[Patty]

So unsexy. Like, nothing about it is sexy to me.

[Tracy]

I know. I want to 100% agree. I, like, 70% agree.

[Patty]

That's fine. Like, you're not alone in that.

[Tracy]

I know. So it's funny too, that, like, there's no dudes here. You know what I mean? Like, he clearly is not marketing to the gays. I get that. I mean, his major fandom is just like, heterosexual women right. Of a certain age.

[Patty]

And like, apparently, apparently we are told many times over, these videos change lives.

[Kate]

After finding will and having, like, a sexual reawakening, I found myself putting more energy and time into myself.

[Emily]

He got me through my breakup.

[Patty]

I lost a ton of weight. I began to experiment with makeup. It's thousands of women who've experienced this. People are getting in shape to impress him and being healthier. And so now they're more confident because they're happier. Happier because this guy's going live on TikTok.

[Tracy]

Yeah. And it's one of those things where he could have used this for the forces of good and doesn't really. And I guess that's not really his responsibility, but it's like it comes to.

[Patty]

A point where it most certainly is, in my opinion.

[Tracy]

Yeah. And also, at some point, you're a cult leader. I don't know. I don't know where the line is exactly, but. Oh, my God. So now we meet Jessica Lucas. She's an Internet culture writer and she tells us about Whitey Nation. Can I tell you Yai I I I I it sound.

[Patty]

In case you missed it, ladies, it sounds like you're all white supremacists.

[Tracy]

But, I mean, Jessica says that she not the greatest name in the world. She's like, I don't think anybody did that on purpose. But yeah, not a great name. I mean, I know what Jessica the reporter is saying is that, like, what's happening is that a community is being built around this thing. So there. You know, in my opinion, as somebody who has a job on the Internet, like, there is value in community building around a thing. I've always loved that, you know, But I really do love the idea of bringing people together, even if it's around something as sort of silly as, like, just a boy lip syncing. To Mandy. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. And these like this community of people is big.

[Patty]

And then of course like there are groups within the fandom. Right. So you have like the Gucci Gang girls and Williams Angels. Williams Angels. And then it's like the William White fan group and then the Grotto girls. Grotto Girls are at the top of the fan club pyramid.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

They're the most organized and the biggest and William knows who they are. So we'll get into this a lot. But like he references them online and then like they're both feeding each other's attention.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

So at first you could just join the group but eventually they made you apply and fill out a Google form.

[Tracy]

Now there's a reason for that.

[Storm]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

They're collecting your information. Don't do this. Go join our Facebook group. There is no Google form required. Don't give out your information on the Internet for like don't do that.

[Patty]

Yeah. And so if you wanted to stay, there were rules, you know, always stay engaged, always promote positivity, never engage with the trolls. Those two things are going to go out the window in about two seconds.

[Tracy]

Even the always stay engaged thing was weird to me because they want people in there who. Maybe that's why the group is small. They want people in there who are really invested.

[Patty]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

Like in our 60,000 person Facebook group we have no rule. Like you have to post once a week or once a day. You know what I mean? That would be insane.

[Patty]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

So they really want the most fever pitched fans in this group.

[Patty]

Well, because the thing about this group.

[Kate]

We definitely had a reputation for over sexualizing because the group was formed to talk about the sexy side of Will.

[Patty]

They were so excited about both expressing their sexuality and being seen by a younger man. Like all the memes were sexual, all the posts were sexual. They're like relentlessly objectifying him, which is also. He's playing into that too.

[Tracy]

He tells us all about Whitey after dark.

[Patty]

Right.

[Tracy]

It's just like him after like 6pm when he's like in his bedroom in his parents house by the way.

[Patty]

But like this is not new behavior. Again, men do this all the time. They just aren't sitting down talking about it for a documentary.

[Tracy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Patty]

But of course William played into it. Like this is all very transactional. Everyone's getting what they want. You know, he's posting thirst traps constantly. He's encouraging this behavior. They are loving the attention from him. He's loving the attention from them.

[Tracy]

And the ones like Kate who give him the most money, give him the most attention. He's following them back. So he's like, sort of implying or instigating an actual, like, real life connection.

[Patty]

Right. And when he goes on live, like, so let's talk about the money. Right. Like, he's going live a lot. And then these women would, like, cancel plans and miss work in order to be on these.

[Tracy]

Can you imagine, like, calling out of work, Sorry, Patrick, I can't be there today. I got to watch my cam guy and give him money and give him money for nothing. It's not even like you're getting, like, it's just so he'll say your name.

[Patty]

It feels to them, because this is extremely parasocial that they're FaceTiming with him.

[Tracy]

Yes. Yeah.

[Patty]

And that, like, he's their boyfriend, also their son, and they can't decide which they want it to be.

[Tracy]

That's. Yeah, girl. Quince is back. Look. Tis the season to be Quincy.

[Patty]

Yeah. Cozy and Quincy and comfortable and all things in between.

[Tracy]

Yeah. We love it. Look. Quince has all of that fall, like, autumn wintry stuff. We're talking $50 cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear, denim that never goes out of style, silk tops and skirts that add polish and outerwear built to take home on this season.

[Storm]

Yeah.

[Patty]

So I am currently wearing, I'm not kidding, the Luna stretch flare jeans, which I've been wearing endlessly, almost every single day. Love them. I also have the super soft fleece crew, which I love. Match together. I am cozy. I'm thriving in autumn.

[Tracy]

Do you know a lady came to one of my shows this year with a handmade sign that said thanks. It's Quinn's because she was getting so many compliments. I'm not kidding.

[Patty]

That's the new. Thanks. It has pockets. No. No thanks. It's quite 100% fam.

[Tracy]

We love queens. We love quints forever. They keep the prices low by working directly with ethical top tier factories. They skip the middlemen and offer prices 50% less than similar brands.

[Patty]

Yeah. You can get, like, staples or, like, fancy things. If you're like, I need a sweater for that thing. Right. Or if you just, like, need a sweater for every day, also great.

[Tracy]

And they've got it for the dudes as well. Because I've got so much quints. I've got. My favorite is the sweaters, actually. Because you can wear them dress, you can wear them casual, you can wear them over things. If you're just cold, it's the best.

[Patty]

They also have accessories and stuff. So if you're looking for gifts for people.

[Tracy]

Just you pay for a 25 minute ad.

[Patty]

Love Quince. Literally wearing the jeans.

[Tracy]

Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished and.

[Patty]

Last from quints perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself. Go to quints.com tco for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.

[Tracy]

Now available in Canada too. That's Q u I n c e.com TCO to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Patty]

Quince.com TCO do it. Have I mentioned I'm literally wearing the jeans that are so comfortable? So on TikTok you can send money through lives and you can send gifts and then they can turn into money.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

This is when Storm says, yeah, I was on his live and I gave him a beautiful beaver. And the person behind the camera's like, oh, what now? What's a beaver? And she's like, oh, it's a gift on TikTok. But the thing is when you went, the bigger the gift was, the more he'd talk to you.

[Tracy]

No. Does it work like you buy a Beaver for $10, you send it to somebody and then they can cash that in for 10 bucks? Is that how that works?

[Patty]

Can I tell you? Yeah, don't ask me. I don't know. I have no idea how TikTok lives, work and how you can make money.

[Tracy]

I know I count on you for the young people stuff.

[Patty]

I know that they take like 50%.

[Tracy]

They do.

[Patty]

It's not even. I think it depends on how much you buy and what you. What the level is. But it's all like, I think it's meant to sort of scam you, the buyer, because it's like, oh, you need like 500 diamonds or 500 coins. And then that in real life translates to money. It's very, it's like airline miles. Yeah. But TikTok takes half of it.

[Tracy]

Oh my God.

[Patty]

But he's getting what is described as life changing money on a regular basis.

[Tracy]

Like, they're also asking him to connect his PayPal account.

[Jessica]

Fans in the chat were telling me, you should put paypal in your bio there, Rob. And you TikTok. And then that's when I started. It went from 0 to 60,000 in like one night. Like, I didn't, I woke up and it was at noon, $60,000.

[Tracy]

He goes to bed the night he connects his PayPal account, wakes up to.

[Patty]

60 grand and honestly, I might believe him. That's his claim. But I'm like, I think you're right. These women are obsessed. They're begging for ways to give him money.

[Tracy]

Yep.

[Patty]

And he quits his construction job with his dad's encouragement to do this full time. And I'm like, I don't mean to sound like a downer, but like, maybe keep the job.

[Tracy]

I don't know, like 60 grand overnight just to like make content.

[Patty]

Like for now though, I'm just saying this is all very finite and you kind of never know. So it's kind of smart to just not.

[Tracy]

I don't know. I think that's the thing here, is that this, especially when he started all of this Internet fame was so new that nobody really knew. Like, is this just going to stay like this forever? And the journey of this documentary is his learning how hard it would be to stay consistent, you know, and seeing the ebb and flow of like, the output and the backlash. Like, he's learning all of that in real time and handling it terribly.

[Patty]

Terribly. He's also using a very obvious filter on TikTok that makes him look like really smooth and not real.

[Tracy]

Uh huh. People love it.

[Patty]

People love it. But like women are sending money and then he'd say their name on the live, but he's just like, so Mary.

[Jessica]

Thank you for the pepon. Thank you, Nicole, thank you, Robin. Miriam, thank you for the PM.

[Patty]

Oh, hey Patrick, thanks for the PayPal. He's bored. I know the personality of a wet mop if that's better than the newspaper.

[Tracy]

Thank you, I appreciate that. I do think part of this is rolled into celebrity culture where like on TikTok you can actually buy like a live shout out from your favorite like celebrity in front of all the people you're trying to impress. So it's not just about impressing him, it's about impressing the other Grotto models.

[Patty]

Well, it's competing with everybody. So it very quickly went from like, we all like the same thing to like, I win at like the thing.

[Tracy]

Oh my God.

[Patty]

Which like happens. We have, we have the Trauma Olympics. We have the, this Olympics. So now they're competing because it's so sexualized.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And we saw this in control all desire, right where the, the cam girl would be like, oh, like I'll do this if you. But all for her. And she knew exactly what she was doing. She was playing these, these idiots in the chat room against each other. Like, great. But like, again, tale as old as dirt.

[Tracy]

Yeah. And this is where gutter girl tells us she's given him between 100 and $200,000 of her own money.

[Patty]

And I'm like, look, I feel like that big jump, was it 100, 200? That's a lot. It's not like, I don't know, 20 or 30 bucks. No, no, no.

[Tracy]

That is two college educations. Like, that is insane.

[Patty]

It's crazy. So we meet Christina. She is the co host of Jen Extemporaneous.

[Tracy]

Love the title.

[Patty]

Yeah. She discovered this fandom because she was like, she found it when it was small and kind of just forming. She goes, I was there on the ground floor. So she saw all the toxicity grow.

[Tracy]

And that's her thing. She wants like, she wants to follow, like as a journalist slash podcaster. She wants to follow this growing fandom because she knows it's going to go bad.

[Patty]

Well, the boundaries blurred, if they exist at all. So like he's being sexual, they're sexualizing him. They're also infantilizing him. They're paying him, he wants the money, they're sending him thing that he's specifically asking for.

[Tracy]

Sometimes like, literally he said he's in a hotel room and he's like.

[Jessica]

And then I'm like, oh man, I need nail clippers. I think I'm going to get some nail clippers, cuz I do want to be fresh for tomorrow. Ten minutes later, I get a knock on the door. Housekeeping. Oh, sweet.

[Storm]

Thank you.

[Jessica]

No way. I don't even have to leave the house.

[Tracy]

Somebody calls the hotel and sends him a pair of nail clippers that he gets like 10 minutes later.

[Patty]

Right. So like they're doing this so that he'll continue to give them what they want, which is more sexuality and his attention.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And then there's a pressure now to like send him shit. To like get noticed.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And so there's pressure for him to react accordingly.

[Tracy]

But can you also imagine a life where you're like, I love these shoes. And then all of a sudden they just show up at your house.

[Patty]

I would hate, hate that. That would be so comfortable.

[Tracy]

This is where you and I are different. I know. Yeah, I, I believe you. And I'm not a things person, so it's not really like that.

[Patty]

And that I want to be clear, that's not to say like this cup a listener sent me. I am wearing things. That listener. It's. That's not what I'm saying.

[Tracy]

No, I know what you mean, but.

[Patty]

It'S him being like, oh man, I sure wish I had some nail clippers. Like, he's not at, you know what? It's not like, oh, Jillian, you Like paintings done by animals. And now I'm going to do this really nice, sweet, thoughtful thing that's going to make you cry. Like, that's not what that this is.

[Tracy]

Yeah. This kind of life would never be for me. I could never be like a TikTok star. But like, there's part of me that would like to experience it for like a week.

[Patty]

But he's also like laughing, I believe, like kind of laughing at them. Because the thing, like he'll tell them where he is. And so like he'll be at dinner with people going live on TikTok, which also must be so annoying if you're a guest. I know, but like the women will call the restaurant, people will call and.

[Kate]

Take care of the bill. And I know before we. I think it was. I don't remember if it was Boston pizza or skylawn and we called to pay the bill and you know, somebody else had already called and taken care of it.

[Patty]

The women will call the restaurant and pick up the tab and then they'll.

[Tracy]

Try to out call. Like you'll call and then pay for it. Then I'll call and they'll be like, sorry, it's already been paid for.

[Patty]

And PF Changs will be like, sorry, someone already beat you to the punch.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

But then like he's loving every second of this. Cause he's like acting like he's not saying, oh, I'm at the fucking Chili's on whatever.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And then like, I think what he's probably doing is saying, saying to his friends, watch this, I'll get this dinner, Compton.

[Tracy]

Yes, I absolutely agree.

[Patty]

And laughing at them. Yeah, he's not interested in them.

[Tracy]

I think this guy's like a loser in a dirtbag. But like, I. I don't know that. I think that he's like mean spirited. I think there's a little bit of it that is sort of like he also kind of can't believe it's real, you know?

[Patty]

Yeah, I don't think he's like thinking enough about it to be mean. I just think he's like a derp. I think he's like. Yeah, I don't think he's fully grasping it. Now listen, on an intellectual, there's something.

[Tracy]

To be said about like 21 year old straight boys. I happen to know a couple of them because they're my nephews, you know?

[Patty]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

I could definitely see if one of my nephews was all of a sudden had 2 million TikTok followers doing things like this just to do it. Not mean Spiritedly. But you're right. Like also not super giving a fudge about how it affects other people.

[Patty]

And on the surface, what's the harm Exactly. But he's not realizing that like I don't know when they're hand delivering Christmas gifts on Christmas morning to the home that you in with your parents. Why that's a problem.

[Tracy]

Now this goes badly really fast because the Grotto girls get him like super expensive, very exclusive luggage and they can't even ship it. So they've got to send it to somebody who's going to bring it to his house who lives near him.

[Patty]

They did everything they could. If they could ship anything, they wanted to go to his house.

[Tracy]

Yeah. So like the mom is cool with it and he's cool with it and they're like, come to drop it off. We don't know what happened. But all of a sudden the very next day he's like, I just want.

[Jessica]

You guys to know that I don't advise anyone coming to my house house. Like it's my privacy, so it's not. Okay.

[Patty]

Not a good idea. Learned that after the fact.

[Emily]

So wouldn't do that again. I don't think that gifts should be.

[Patty]

Coming to my house for William.

[Tracy]

He's like, nobody ever coming to my house again. Boundaries have been crossed.

[Patty]

I think that's bullshit. I'm going to. I have a different take on that.

[Tracy]

Okay.

[Patty]

So Cuz he says, oh, a Grotto girl came to my house today and had a one hour conversation with my mom. It was really nice. Then the mom sits down Chrissy. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, it's not nice. Don't engage in this way. That's insane.

[Tracy]

Yeah. Like.

[Patty]

And so the next morning he goes on live and he's like, I just want you guys to know that like I don't, I don't advise anyone. Not like, please don't do that.

[Tracy]

So what happens?

[Patty]

I think his heart's not in it. Like, I don't think he ever had boundaries. He's crossing boundaries himself. They are. He's not cut out for this. He's bad at it. And I think because he's. He does this a couple of times, but he never actually like maintains that idea of don't ever. Because he's still saying, here's my hotel, here's where I'm going. So I think he's saying it because it's like kind of what you're supposed to say. But I don't think in his heart, I don't think he actually wants them to stop because then he won't get the money.

[Tracy]

Right? That's what I'm saying. I think that he. Whether he's cut out for this or not, I don't know. I think he comes and goes. I think that, like, he doesn't understand that it's okay to be off, that he doesn't have to go live every day. That you can do it.

[Patty]

That's not an option. Like, I don't think it's ever occurred to him that he could stop at any time.

[Tracy]

I do think, though, that there has to be something a little like he's just a guy who lives in a house with his parents and that has, like, millions of followers who are obsessed.

[Patty]

With him and he's loving every second of it.

[Tracy]

Yeah. But I bet there are moments of it being scary. I bet there are moments of, like, what was that? You know what I mean? Like, like. Like people just showing up. Like, that's scary.

[Patty]

That's incredibly scary. But he doesn't say that.

[Tracy]

No, no. But his mom does. Like, it's. It's. I'm not defending him. I'm just saying that, like, it's a. It's a jungle out there in this kind of life.

[Patty]

But she's so welcome. Some stranger where it's like, how did you get his address? Like that, that's. That they found.

[Tracy]

But it doesn't surprise me. I think that, like, when.

[Patty]

No, it doesn't surprise me.

[Tracy]

It doesn't surprise me. Mostly because they just don't know anything. The problem is these people don't learn. So they. They do something that they shouldn't do, something bad happens and then they don't learn from it. They just kind of keep reliving it on both sides. Yeah.

[Patty]

Because now they're taking pilgrimages to Canada where he lives.

[Emily]

There was a lot of people that had gone to Canada. I mean, obviously. Yeah, we'd gone to Niagara hoping to see Will.

[Kate]

We were all so happy, just giddy to be in Niagara and see different locations where will had made TikToks. There were 16 of us. There were Gigi's and Non Gigi's, hoping.

[Patty]

They'Ll, quote, run into him, which is insane.

[Tracy]

They're stalking him because he.

[Patty]

But he is also posting where he is all the time. But you're right, you know, when they run into him at Chili's or P. F Chang's or whatever, some delicious corporate restaurant with a booth and an app sampler, he's like, yeah, he's encouraging it. He's taking the selfies. He's whatever. And like, like. And they like go up a notch.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Cuz if they travel, they'll give him money.

[Tracy]

Yeah. I really do think too in the beginning, like he just, he wants all the good and doesn't understand it's a job. I think that's what I'm trying to say.

[Patty]

Sure.

[Tracy]

He doesn't understand this is a job. Now he wants to be on when he wants to be on. He wants to be pictures when he wants to be pictures. He wants to be making out with these girls when he want. And he wants to be left alone. And he's, he doesn't understand that this is his job. He just doesn't know that. And he doesn't ever learn anything like that. That's this guy's biggest Achilles heel, is that he refuses to learn lessons.

[Patty]

Everyone's in the eye of the hurricane. No one has any control on either side of it.

[Tracy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, girl. Function, Health is back. Look, we choose function because function is the only health platform that gives us data most people never get and insights to start doing something about it. You've been hearing me scream about this for weeks. I signed up a couple months back because I wanted to monitor my testosterone levels. But now I've got access to over 100 plus biomarkers. So many more than you see when you get blood work from a physical and if there's any sort of situation, it alerts you and then it tells you what you can do to fix it. It is unbelievable.

[Patty]

Yeah. And let's talk about how easy this is. Right, so lab visits are fast and convenient and they have over 2,000 locations across the U.S. yeah.

[Tracy]

And you can do this for 499 bucks a year. That's a dollar 37 a day for advanced health insights. I mean, that is a deal.

[Patty]

And all your results are tracked over time in one place. You can see how everything is evolving. Instead of being like, did I have to log into this? What is this thing? What is this link I'm getting texted? It's just all in one place.

[Tracy]

It's super easy to navigate. It's super easy to understand. They send you reminders and alerts when you need to do things. It like if you want to take your health seriously, this is the place to do it.

[Patty]

Yeah. They're also not pushing anything on you like pharmaceuticals. It's just this, like powerful.

[Tracy]

No, not that.

[Patty]

You know, it's just all about the data. It's about helping you with your own health. So it's not going to be like here, here's this ad. Buy this thing.

[Tracy]

No, not that real doctor stuff I'm obsessed with. So fam, learn more and join. Using our link function is a near 360 view to see what's happening in your body. And our first 1000 followers get a hundred dollars credit towards their membership.

[Patty]

Visit www.functionhealth.com TCO or use gift code TCO100 at signup to own your health.

[Tracy]

Do it. I love it.

[Patty]

Own it.

[Emily]

Just saying girl.

[Tracy]

Butcherbox is back. Look, you know I'm on a protein kick. I love the Butcherbox fam because ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein choices straight to your door. We' talking 100% grass fed beef, free range, organic chicken, pork r crate free and wild caught seafood. It is the easiest way to get like top quality delicious protein delivered right to your house. No going to the grocery store ever again.

[Patty]

Yeah. And when you have a freezer filled with butcher box it really helps answer the what are we doing for dinner question.

[Tracy]

The freezer, especially during the winter. So look. For nearly a decade Butcherbox has led the industry with meat and seafood that is antibiotic free, hormone free and independently very verified. It's a cleaner, more trustworthy version of what you'd find at the grocery store delivered right to your door. We live on this stuff. You just throw it in the freezer. You can like take it out anytime. Make yourself a steak for dinner.

[Patty]

Yeah. And they have everything right. And every product meets the same rigorous standard.

[Tracy]

Plus every box ships free. Always fam. It includes member only perks like recipe inspo tips and exclusive deals to help you make the most of every meal. So fam, as an exclusive offer our listeners get a free steak in every box for a year. What? Plus 20 bucks off your first box when you go to butcherbox.com tco that's right.

[Patty]

Your choice of filet mignon, New York strip or ribeye in every box for an entire year. Plus 20 bucks off your first box and free shipping always.

[Tracy]

That's butcherbox.com/tco. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you.

[Patty]

My God.

[Tracy]

I know. It's so good. I love it.

[Patty]

Heck of a deal.

[Tracy]

Heck of a deal.

[Patty]

His fans now donate donated $150,000 to Amfar on his behalf.

[Tracy]

You know what? I'll take it.

[Patty]

Phenomenal.

[Tracy]

AMFAR needs your money. Give money to them right now.

[Patty]

But part of it was like let's get him to a place where we could all go yes. Because he gets invited to their black tie gala because he donated X amount. That's how you get invited to things like this. Donate a zillion dollars.

[Tracy]

Gutter girl is renting a condo on the beach.

[Patty]

So it's in Florida.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Emily]

And Will said, hey, fans can show.

[Patty]

Up if you want.

[Emily]

You got to pay your own with tickets. Some fans did.

[Tracy]

We thought, oh, we'll schedule our girls get together in West Palm Beach.

[Patty]

So William goes and all of his fans go. And so Emily, AKA Disney Mama, is a major fan. She lives in Florida and she's part of this big girls trip that was planned.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And then they, quote, find out where he's staying. They stalk him and go to his hotel.

[Tracy]

I mean, but also to your earlier point, he's posting pictures of his hotel on his social media. He wants them to know he's acting.

[Patty]

Like he's not doing it.

[Tracy]

Exactly.

[Patty]

Like he's making sing saw. Like, oh, like, oh, did I accidentally say that name? Oh, did I take a selfie in.

[Tracy]

Front of me staying at the Marriott? Yeah.

[Patty]

Like, did I take, oh, here's my room number. Like, he's trying to act like, no, I wish I had new luggage, unfortunately. And like, ding dong, if only somebody.

[Tracy]

Knew that my address was.

[Patty]

I mean, that's what he's doing.

[Tracy]

Yeah. That's the thing I resent the most. He's not taking it seriously as a job. That's what I resent the most.

[Patty]

And I agree. And because it's like, just. Just be honest.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Even the winking is dishonest.

[Tracy]

Right.

[Patty]

The lip licking is dishonest. Just be real about it.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

So they go, right, swarm him. Pictures are taken, stuffed animals are signed. He follows Emily Disney Mama back on Instagram. She's thrilled. But after the event that he only he can go to, so they, like, meet him, that he goes to the event, and they all, like, twiddle their thumbs for an hour and a half while he's at the gala with Sharon Stone or whatever.

[Tracy]

Right. And then he's like, come meet me at the hotel. Now they all of the women get to the hotel. They meet him out front. He's like, let's say down here by the pool. And this is where Disney Mama sort of wanders off on her own, looking kind of like for a chair. Gutter girl is out, by the way. She can't find anybody. She doesn't know where all the women went. She goes back to the condo. She tells us a thousand times she is not here for what happens next.

[Patty]

She's not here. So he like disappears with Emily Disney mama.

[Storm]

He starts talking to me and he's like, hey, how's it going? And he walks to the back door of the hotel and he kind of like opens the door, turns and looks at me and winks and says, no, let's go inside. And he does that, that wink. My stomach dropped. And we get on the elevator and.

[Patty]

She goes, well, he does that famous wink and invited her to his hotel room.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Then she says, william sits on the bed and she goes. He leans back and does one of these numbers and kind of like this come hither stare he allegedly says to her. According to Emily, damn, I got some hot moms fucking barf.

[Tracy]

His game is so bad. It's really so bad.

[Patty]

So childish and stupid and fake and a whole bunch of bullshit.

[Tracy]

Yeah. And also, like, we were talking about this before we started the pictures of him back then at this, he looks like a child.

[Patty]

He looks and acts 16 years old.

[Tracy]

He really. Because when you see him in the documentary, he's like in his early mid-20s or whatever. He acts like a young man, truly. But at least he looks like a grown up in these pictures with this woman. He looks like a child.

[Patty]

They are all, I'm going to guess over 40. Yeah.

[Tracy]

And he. I don't know how old he is, but he looks like a 17 year old.

[Patty]

They said in 2020 he was 21 years old.

[Tracy]

Okay.

[Patty]

So Emily is like, oh, my God, I'm super nervous. She doesn't know what to do. She's just randomly rifling through a bag.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Taking out bottles of water. It's kind of like she's here now and she doesn't know what to do with it now that she's here.

[Tracy]

Right. It's almost like I wanted this. I wanted this. And now I'm not sure that I want this.

[Patty]

Right. So he takes off his shoes and his suit jacket and he comes up behind her and she says he, like rocks back and forth and is like, so are we gonna do this? The documentary then cuts to him rocking back and forth in the dock, laughing like, butthead.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

From Beavis and Butthead.

[Tracy]

Yeah. And it's like this whole conversation is very uncomfortable because they're about to like get very physical with each other.

[Jessica]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

And she's not. She wants to. And it's him sort of talking her into it.

[Patty]

And we get his side before we get like, what happened. We cut to get his side of the story. First of all, he doesn't call her Emily. He just calls her Disney Mama, which is insane. And it's like, so what happened, William? And he's like, I kind of, like, forget.

[Tracy]

My life is so full.

[Patty]

My life has been, like, super eventful, which is.

[Tracy]

He totally remember.

[Patty]

Of course.

[Tracy]

Of course.

[Patty]

Of course. So he remembers making out, going over to the bed and, quote, doing something, but he doesn't remember anything else. Bullshit.

[Tracy]

Ye.

[Patty]

So Emily is like, I'll tell you what happened.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Emily confirms. They started making out on the bed. Emily's on her back. William is on top of her. And Emily says, and at one point.

[Storm]

Like, put, like, his hand, like, near my throat. And that's like, a big trigger for me because I don't. I don't like that. That kind of scares me. And I put my hand on his chest, and I was like. I pushed him off and I said, we need to stop. I said, I was like, this is not a good idea. He cut me off. He's like, you think that I'm too young for you? And he, like, stands up and he's like, I'm a man to him.

[Tracy]

His manhood, his pride is injured. He thinks that she's saying to him, you don't think I'm a man? You know, I'm going to show you what a man I am.

[Patty]

And this is where the whole, like, this happens all the time. Young, hot women make money from older men abruptly ends.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

Because at the end of the day, this guy's still a man. Like, because at the end of the day, there's a power imbalance of play that he's going to take advantage of.

[Tracy]

Yep.

[Patty]

He's an emotionally stunted and immature and has no personality, but still a man.

[Tracy]

Yeah. And like, even, like, her description of what happens, it's just sort of like, she doesn't say no, but he's sort of being kind of rough with her, and all of a sudden, he's on top of her.

[Patty]

She says she, quote, finally agreed, which means that, like, it's coercive.

[Storm]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Because she says she didn't want to be the fan that let him down.

[Tracy]

Well, that is very much the thing.

[Patty]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

And that, by the way, is a power dynamic that he needs to be aware of. That, like, if he's bringing a fan to the room, there is a power imbalance because he understands that this woman or this whoever wants to please him. That is a power imbalance.

[Storm]

Of course.

[Patty]

And we don't know what else was said in the. Like, well, if you. We don't know how he was coercing. Her what he was saying. But the fact that she says she, quote, finally agreed.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

That's not how you have sex with somebody.

[Tracy]

No. And, you know, she kind of laughs about it now. It's very, very hard to, like, have this conversation because she's not saying that it was non consensual. He's saying he doesn't remember. But just by. By discussing it, you know, this is a thing that never should have happened.

[Patty]

The fact that they weren't, like, super hot for each other and. Oh, my God, we can't believe this. Oh, my God, this is so great. Says everything.

[Storm]

Yeah.

[Patty]

The fact that there's a conversation at all is all you need to know.

[Tracy]

Exactly.

[Patty]

That's a piece of shit.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

So. And outside the hotel room, there is chaos. Nobody can find Will, including his own mother.

[Tracy]

And he's an adult. Like, she doesn't need to know where he is.

[Patty]

But his mother is calling the Grotto girl. I know. Everyone needs to grow the fuck up.

[Tracy]

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

[Patty]

I mean, it's ridiculous.

[Tracy]

But then all of a sudden, Will and Emily's phones are blowing up because everyone's trying to find them. And Emily sees this as her out. She's like, we gotta stop. We have to stop.

[Patty]

His mother is screaming at a Grotto girl being like, she's gonna be a gutter girl. Yeah. Like, where's my son? And she's like, I'm out. I'm at my condo girl. Like, don't. Like I'm not involved. But now it has become Disney Mama. Emily versus Grotto girl. Steph, for some reason, like, what Emily.

[Tracy]

Disney Mama is saying is she knew what was about to happen. She knew that she was going to be the envy of all the other girls. They were all going to turn on her. And that's what happens. She gets back to the condo and gutter girl is screaming at her, where were you? What happened?

[Storm]

And she's very forcefully slamming these barn doors that separated our living spaces. And she would fling it open. You need to tell me what the hell's going on. I'm going to call the cops. And so I said, you know what I'm in fear of for my safety? At this point, I'd be more than happy to call the police myself.

[Tracy]

They're threatening to call the police on each other. And then gutter girl gets in an Uber and goes to the airport and goes home.

[Patty]

Yeah, the fans are pissed because they all wanted to be the one to hook up with him. And Emily did. And now the fandom is in Peril. And the only way to handle that, apparently, is to attack Emily Disney mama with vicious lies.

[Tracy]

I mean, somebody finds they're calling her job. Somebody finds her, like, ex, abusive ex husband and tells him about this. He then gets on social media and makes a post that she has left him for Will.

[Patty]

Because what the fans are saying is that Emily sexually assaulted him. She raped him, she forced him, she drugged him, she stalked him.

[Tracy]

She was hiding in the bushes outside of his room.

[Patty]

You all were doing those last two things.

[Tracy]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patty]

Get crazy.

[Tracy]

Exactly.

[Patty]

So when they get the abusive husband involved, Emily has to file a violation injunction for her own safety.

[Tracy]

Like, she's already living in fear of her ex husband. These women now make this exponentially worse for her.

[Patty]

Like, she's ousted from the fandom. She has to delete her social media and go into hiding. But I'm thinking, I'm like, no, in reality, you're just coming back into the real world where none of this shit matters.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And I know that they've now made it matter by making, like, bringing you back to court and dealing with your ex, but, like, hey, everybody, yeah, he's just a guy who winks on TikTok. I know we need to stop this. And who could have stopped it is.

[Tracy]

William, by not starting it. You know what I mean? Like, specifically, this situation should never have happened.

[Patty]

Right?

[Tracy]

Meanwhile, after we hear all this drama come back to William, it's all like.

[Jessica]

It was drama. Like, the. The whole thing. And, like, even with sleeping with fans, like, I don't look at. It's not like I'm a teacher or something. Like, I'm literally just famous and they're loving me. And, like, it's a connection. Like, whatever.

[Tracy]

It was just drama. Whatever. I'm just famous and hot.

[Patty]

But he said, like, he could have said, stop attacking her. He could. He has all this power over these women. He's getting hundreds of thousands of dollars. And he's like, well, she got mad that I didn't stick to up or whatever. I'm not sticking up for people. I'm not a lawyer. I know the disdain in his voice at the mere idea of sticking up for someone, like, is disgusting. But the point is, you have control of this fandom, you idiot. And, like, you could have and should have stood up for her, William.

[Tracy]

I do wonder about that, though. I do wonder, if he ever crossed them, would they have turned on him? I bet they would have for who cares. Well, it just would have been the end of everything for him. Like, for a person Who's. Whose whole identity is wrapped up in this online Persona. If he. If he crossed the Grotto Girls and all of a sudden they turn on him, it would have been the end. Like, it. You and me and everybody else, it's like, well, that's just what happened. It's called the Internet. To him, it would have been the end of his life, you know, but it's like, this is what we deal with when we have jobs on the Internet. We've got jobs on the Internet.

[Patty]

But he also loves the drama.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

He loves that. Like, oh, she got ousted. Ooh, They're. They're doxing her.

[Tracy]

Ooh.

[Patty]

Like, it's fun for him because the.

[Tracy]

Next time he goes on a live, he's wearing a Disney sweatshirt. Her name was Disney Mama, you know? And now all of a sudden, he's, like, angry guy on the Internet. He's calling people out and he's swearing at people. Yes. And, like, that's how this ends.

[Patty]

He just, like, doesn't want to be the winking hot guy anymore. He wants. I was like, or you could just go offline.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Does he not know that that's an option?

[Tracy]

It's the money. I don't think you can walk away from that.

[Patty]

But he's being abusive, so he used to call them out and be like, oh, thanks, Debbie. And I was like, fudge yourself, Debbie.

[Tracy]

You're such a fudgeing loser with your zero followers.

[Patty]

And, like, he's saying his fans did nothing for him, which is just objectively a lie.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Like, what about that luggage?

[Tracy]

Right?

[Patty]

About that P. F Chang's dinner?

[Tracy]

What about that two hundreds of thousands of dollars that Got A Girl gave you?

[Patty]

This is a mess. Everybody. Everybody contributed to this. Yeah, Right? This is also the most personality he's shown when he's being mean.

[Tracy]

Yeah, it's true.

[Patty]

Like, he's. Boy, he's got nothing. He's, like, flatlining in every other time. But the first episode ends with like, why are they still your fans? Like, they're. He's calling them bitches and assholes and shit stains and useless and, like, nothing's ever come out of your fucking mouth that's worth anything. And they're like, please take my money.

[Tracy]

I know. I mean, I think it all comes down to the community. Like, it becomes like, this community is so insular. This is all these people have.

[Patty]

That's all they have.

[Tracy]

So it's not. I think at some point, it's not even about. About him. It's just about, like, the. The Community of people and the drama and the drop. But that's what I mean.

[Patty]

Competitiveness and doxing people and winning and.

[Tracy]

Some, some people are looking for that and they can only find it on the Internet.

[Patty]

Right, girl?

[Tracy]

Uncommon Goods is back. Look, the countdown is on. Holiday shopping season is officially here.

[Patty]

I love Uncommon Goods all year round. I know it's really great now, but also just like remember this in March.

[Tracy]

Yeah. It's the best, best place to get a gift for something that like you can't just get anywhere. So Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. For moms and dads to kids and teens, book lovers. That's right. I get Steve the book stuff there. History buffs, diehard football fans to foodies, mixologists. Oh my God. They've got like great flasks and mixers and like drink making things.

[Patty]

Yeah. The gifts are, they're high quality, unique. They're often handmade or made in the US and many of them are crafted by independent artists and small businesses.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

So my go to gift. Yeah, that I love because I love people's birthdays and I love their birth month and like what that means for them. So they have this really great birth month, gemstone and flower candle. And you like, like I got one for Jen Smart. Oh my God, really? So it's like a blend of flowers, birthstones, herbs and these like essential oils that are meaningful to that month. Oh, it's like a nice thing to send someone. So that's my go to gift in case you need, you know, we love.

[Tracy]

It's really fun to just go peruse the website, get inspired on the website. Like you go there and you'll see something for somebody that you love.

[Patty]

We get drag bingo gifts there too.

[Tracy]

True. Every month. So fam, don't wait. Cross the names off your list before.

[Patty]

The rush to get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com TCO that's.

[Tracy]

UncommonGoods.com/TCO for 15% off Uncommon Goods.

[Patty]

We're all out of the ordinary.

[Tracy]

All out of the ordinary.

[Patty]

Sing it sister. Don't I know it.

[Tracy]

So episode two opens with Storm. Suddenly Storm is a very holier than thou about this whole thing.

[Patty]

So Storm is an influencer on TikTok and OnlyFans. She's the big whistleblower here, for lack of a better term.

[Tracy]

Yeah, she's saying how she came after Will's mother Chrissy on an Instagram live.

[Emily]

And told her she was a disgusting mother for allowing her minor children to be on lives. I called her out because it's not safe for your minor children to be on TikTok and on live streams with.

[Patty]

Adults, Storms, like you've been. Everyone knows where you live. Will's brand is about sex. It's not safe to constantly be on TikTok Live, especially with younger kids when they're, you know that women show up to your house. And then Chrissy's response is, why don't you come on in and chit chat, chat for an hour.

[Tracy]

Yes, I agree. But it's like Storm, you can only say that. What? You're never going to convince her. So it's not really about convincing her. It's just about being a voice in the fight.

[Patty]

Right. So Will essentially says this means war. So he goes on live and calls Storm a rapist and a pedophile.

[Tracy]

What's like, what? What?

[Patty]

Because he's like, oh, you fudgeing weirdo, go to your Twitter party, you fudgeing pedophile. He's calling her this because she's on Only fans.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And she also has kids. So because she's posting nudes online behind a paywall and because she also has children, she's now a pedophile and a rapist.

[Tracy]

I mean it's so craz. But then she tells us the story about how her 21 year old son gets a message from some anonymous person containing her nudes from OnlyFans now.

[Patty]

And it's Will. Let me just say that. Right?

[Tracy]

Oh, isn't it? Well, I don't know. I mean my head is spinning at this point.

[Patty]

But my point is like Storm's son is the same age that William was when he started getting money in exchange for sexualizing himself. Yeah, no one's doing the math on that.

[Tracy]

Right?

[Patty]

No one cares because they're trying to treat Storm's son like he's an 8 year old and she's filming her only fans in front of him. You know what I mean? They're, they're forgetting the fact that they were lusting over this 21 year old. So it's like, oh, was he too young? Because he wasn't too young then when it was William.

[Tracy]

Yeah, they don't care. They're just saying whatever they can. Yeah, yeah.

[Patty]

So do the math, you idiots.

[Tracy]

So now Storm, because like I guess I didn't read her lower third because this was the moment that I realized that she was an only fan star.

[Patty]

Yeah.

[Tracy]

I was like, oh, that's new information.

[Patty]

Right.

[Tracy]

But she's going to turn over all of her only fans account information to the Cops So that they can sort of go. Go through and connect the dots, trying to figure out, like, who bought these images and then who sent them out to her son.

[Patty]

Right. Because this person signed up for OnlyFans.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And so I'm sure they had to click a little. I accept the terms.

[Tracy]

Well, Storm tells us that they found out that it was the Grotto Girls.

[Storm]

Right.

[Patty]

They also, like, found her son's information. Like, there's a lot here that they did that's creepy and stalking and ridiculous.

[Tracy]

And I love that Amanda, that BB girl, she's like, the Grotto Girls would never do that. Except we did it that one time.

[Patty]

Except we totally did it. And so this one person responsible admits to the group.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Is like, oh, okay. Like. And then they're removed. So Storm goes, oh, do you want a war? I'll give you a war. Like, this is not over.

[Tracy]

Well, yeah, because the next words out of Storm's mouth are, and as far.

[Emily]

As me showing myself naked is nothing compared to him making porn with his cousin in the bathroom. I wake up one morning, and I have tons of pictures and videos of Will and his cousin jacking off in the bathroom.

[Patty]

Together.

[Tracy]

Making porn with his cousin in the bathroom.

[Patty]

When I tell you, I almost fell off my chair.

[Tracy]

Same.

[Patty]

I was like, I'm sorry, what?

[Storm]

What?

[Patty]

He's doing what?

[Tracy]

What?

[Patty]

So I'm like, storm, tell us everything. What is going on here?

[Tracy]

So some, like, Storm sympathizer sent her these videos and images from a fake account on Instagram.

[Patty]

400 videos and images?

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

That's a lot.

[Tracy]

Now, the thing about Storm is that she is not happy to be in receipt of this. She says she immediately tells this person that what they've done is illegal. And then she says she goes on Twitter and sees that these. This file of 400 pictures and videos exists on Twitter, and somebody is selling them.

[Patty]

Right? So the images are Will and his male cousin who are masturbating together in the bathroom and, like, looking at and playing to the camera. Like, this is definitely a group project.

[Tracy]

Now, I don't know why they made this. I don't know who it was for or what it was for. But, like, when it leaks onto the Internet, it's like. And I'm ashamed to admit this, it's, like, all over the gay Internet.

[Patty]

But Will is more concerned with all the bad angles in the photos and.

[Tracy]

Videos, which is such. Because I am with Storm, I can't.

[Emily]

Say it's true or false. This is my opinion that Will or someone very close to Will leaked these photos. If not, not Will himself. That's my opinion. There's no one else that would have this amount of photos and videos of him except for him or maybe someone very close to him.

[Tracy]

He totally leaked.

[Patty]

Of course he did.

[Tracy]

There's no world in which. Because Storm is going to say who could have leaked this stuff to Twitter. Well, only the person who had access to all 400 videos and images. Who would that person be? It's Will.

[Patty]

Right. But Will has some stupid story that he was catfished.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

That Will was, like, some girl named Abby. Greg was talking to him online, and they were, like, exchanging sexual images, but then she is actually not the person she was catfished is. So he claims.

[Tracy]

It's like, the thing about it is that, like, Will wanted to, like, leak his sex tapes.

[Patty]

Right.

[Tracy]

And, like. Okay, like, I understand that. What the appeal of that would be. You know what I mean?

[Patty]

Yeah. I can't. Okay. A few things. First of all, Will is like, oh, you know, I was catfish. And then he is convinced that he was this close to being trafficked.

[Tracy]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Patty]

I could have gotten, like, stolen.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

Like, think about it. They're doing that now. I was like, yes, well, you and the white ladies in the Target Target parking lot are totally safe. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Tracy]

It is so absurd.

[Patty]

But the cousin stuff, we never get back to it. And I just feel insane that no one is, like, horrified by it.

[Tracy]

When you look at the Internet, like, the whole idea was to make money. So somebody made these videos, and somebody's selling them on Twitter for 100 bucks a pop. I think it's both Will. So I think Will is like, maybe it would be hot to the gay community if I'm in a bathroom jerking off with my cousin.

[Patty]

Or, like, say it's his cousin, but we don't get any confirmation. Like, it's his cousin.

[Tracy]

But, like, Jesus Christ, am I insane for not being scandalized by this? All I'm saying is that Will and his cousin made videos they thought they could sell, and then they went and.

[Patty]

Sold, and then they sold them for, like, not a lot of money.

[Tracy]

I'm not offended that you're scandalized by it. I'm just saying that, like, I just want to be. Because it was leaked onto the gay Internet. I just wanted to speak for the gay Internet for a second.

[Patty]

Like, it's two guys. I don't care. It's the cousin stuff that. And then no one's talking.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

So we're going to spend 50 hours on all this shit that doesn't actually matter. And it's like, is it actually his cousin or not?

[Tracy]

Right? We'll never know. We have no idea.

[Patty]

Nobody fudgeing talks about it. Yeah, like I don't care what anybody. Again, conscious consenting above age adults. Like, great.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

Yeah, the cousin thing. Jesus Christ. So now like they call it the cookbook. Like, who cares?

[Tracy]

Well, what we learned though is that the Grotto girls actually already had all of these images as well. So it could be the Grotto girls that are selling it on.

[Patty]

On Twitter because he probably gave it to. They, I feel like, are his little lemmings. And they do what they want. They get, you know, the Abus ex husband back in the picture. They get Storms only fans photos. This is once again a group project. Everyone's working together and then we get.

[Tracy]

Like 10 minutes of will being like, why are you guys selling my nudes? Like, bitch, you gave them your nudes, idiot.

[Patty]

Yeah. So Storm is on a mission to get this all taken down because she's like, well's a dick, but his dick shouldn't really be on the Internet if he didn't consent to.

[Tracy]

And I just wanted to say I think that's pretty badass of Storm. Like somebody like, sent her news to her son and she's not like, taking that back out on the community. She actually wants to do the right thing here, which I thought was pretty great.

[Patty]

But like, the sad truth is they're out there forever now. Well, like, you can't unring the bell. You can't put the ketchup back in the bottle or whatever.

[Tracy]

She's doing it for Will. And I'm like, no, Will wants him out there. Like, nice try, Storm. But like, Will wants this out there.

[Patty]

But like at the same time, Storm wants to dismantle the whole Grotto girls group.

[Emily]

So then I went after them. If I called you a. Because you deserved it. If you're A, you're a. I was going to come for every one of them and I was going to just disintegrate their whole entire cult group. And that's exactly what I did.

[Patty]

She goes, and that's exactly what I did.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

So we're back with Jessica, the Internet culture reporter, and she's here to remind us that like, this whole thing is not actually important in anyone's actual real lives.

[Tracy]

Right? Yeah.

[Patty]

She goes, both Will and the women need to take a cold, hard look at how much this entire situation controls their lives and the way they live. And like, sure, but we could have started that a long time ago. Like I agree with you, Jessica and I agree now. Unfortunately that's not the case anymore because it went from like canceling plans to watch a tiktoker live to like now putting people's lives in danger and doxxing them and getting their ex husbands involved. And like now they've made it real.

[Tracy]

It's the kind of thing where like we know that cults ex. We've learned how to like extract people from cults. I think that we have to accept that like fandom communities are always going to exist and like these sort of Grotto girls factions are always going to exist within them and rather than trying to destroy them, I think we need to understand how to understand them so that we can sort of like break it up or we can at least not get dragged down by it.

[Patty]

I totally agree. But the pattern here is that when the person they're all a fan of is too involved, it goes to shit almost immediately and it gets worse than.

[Tracy]

Ever and there's no regulation on it. You know what I mean?

[Patty]

That's the thing. It's the parasocial thing that works both ways.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And like when the person that the fans are obsessed with becomes involved in the fandom in this way, it's a mess. It's never going to survive.

[Tracy]

Yeah, I agree.

[Patty]

Fucking weird.

[Tracy]

It's weird and it's dangerous.

[Patty]

Like it's weird and dangerous. You're right. So these girls like they just care way too much about a 21 year old TikToker.

[Tracy]

Well, we learn how like organized the Grotto girls are.

[Patty]

They're like a little mafia for. For Will. Right. They make sure he's getting the right amount of money. I mean they even collect the money from the other women. They have spreadsheets, they have group meetings. The leadership were directing people from the grotto to go out and brigade different accounts that they didn't like, different fans to make sure that Will didn't notice those fans.

[Tracy]

They're sending people out to sort of like dox new fans that they don't like. They're trying to highlight fans for Will to like and suppress fans they don't want to support.

[Patty]

And 50 year old women with like kids and families jobs grow.

[Tracy]

They take a monthly collection to send him an allowance. They're giving him hundreds of thousands of dollars which by the way, is Will paying taxes on that?

[Patty]

I highly doubt it.

[Tracy]

Doubt it.

[Patty]

But it's like it's so clear, this vicious cycle. He wants money, they give him money. He Gives them attention because he wants more money, and then they give him more money because they got the attention.

[Tracy]

I mean, Christina the reporter is like, the fandom works better than the FBI. They had somebody running background checks on these people. Because, remember, to get into the Grotto Girls, you had to give them all of that information, Right. So they can. Like, they know all about you, and if they don't like you, they're doxing you. They've got all your insights.

[Patty]

They're calling your job to get you fired. They're threatening your kids. They're like actual valid threats on your lives. On the lives of your pets.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

Like this. Get lives. I beg of you. This is insane behavior.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Get a life. So, like, whatever supposed crime you're punishing these people for is meaningless, Right? Like, if you're a Grotto girl. Holy shit.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

Like, what's the big offense here? Like, really, if you think about it, like, if I sat down across from one and I said, oh, my God, like, the girls, like, who you. Like, you were going to kill her boyfriend's dog. Like, what did she do?

[Tracy]

Right?

[Patty]

Like, say it to me out loud, what the big offense was.

[Storm]

Well.

[Tracy]

But I promise you, it's all a microcosm. And I don't mean this in a mean way necessarily, but, like, in my own mind, I imagine how empty their lives must be, that this is what they have.

[Patty]

If this has become the biggest thing and it's become this real to you.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

There's a bigger problem, and it's never going to feed you.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

This is never going to. Never going to make you happy ever. And obviously it's not making you happy. If you're threatening to kill people's kids and their pets and their dogs and get them fired. Like, this is making you happy.

[Tracy]

No.

[Patty]

Is this feeding your soul in some way? It can't be.

[Tracy]

I know. I know.

[Patty]

It can't be.

[Tracy]

And, you know, we're just getting more and more from Will about people making pilgrimages to his house and they're stalking him.

[Patty]

I know, but we meet Kate Palmer, and she was, like, a super big target. They hated her.

[Tracy]

And she was, like, a real fan that he seemed to actually really connect with.

[Patty]

That was her big crime.

[Tracy]

Yeah, that was it.

[Patty]

That's all she. All she did is he paid attention to her.

[Tracy]

Exactly.

[Patty]

And that was her fault.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And again, no one's mad at him. Wait, none of these women are mad at him? They're always mad at her. So they were going all out.

[Emily]

There was a lot of Twitter pages made with my name. It was KFP nudes. They would superimpose my face on it. And it was constant.

[Patty]

The fake accounts, the photoshopped images, the harassment, the stalking. It was relentless. And it was going on for months and months and months. And Kate says, someone can easily be driven to suicide.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And I think that's a moment that the doc did not slow down on. It should have.

[Tracy]

Yep.

[Patty]

This is terrifying.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And you all need to go outside.

[Tracy]

I'm like, I've seen this happen in real life on the Internet, in groups that I know about.

[Patty]

Yes. Same. It is awful to not. It is very destabilizing. It is a horrible killing.

[Tracy]

A girl ended up in the hospital having attempted to take her own life because of the bullying that she experienced.

[Patty]

In a group that people could have stopped and didn't.

[Tracy]

And didn't.

[Patty]

Because once again, in that situation. Because I know exactly what you're talking about. The people that everyone was a fan of were too involved.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

And that's what always happens.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

So Jessica, the Internet reporter, is saying. And she does slow down on it because she's like, thank you, Kate, for speaking your truth. But also, this is happening all the time.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Like, right now, as we're talking about this, it's happening all the time.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Now Will is, like, complaining, like, they're constantly showing up at my house. But it's like. Then he's posting his location.

[Tracy]

Yeah. I mean, this is why we did this in one episode. Because it's. A lot of it is the same.

[Storm]

Right.

[Tracy]

He's just complained. Like I said earlier, he refuses to learn. He won't learn any lessons.

[Patty]

And this is what it really hit me where it's like, I think he's just telling them not to do this because it's what you're supposed to say.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

I think he's kind of. Because he's not turning off his location. Right. He's not. Not saying what restaurant he is. Put the fucking phone down when you're eating.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Like, he can't exist without being on TikTok live. And I'm not entirely sure that he knows that that's an option, by the way.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

Some of the Grotto girl girls are here in the documentary, and they're like, well, whatever. Like, if we ever heard of someone, like, showing up to a restaurant where he was like, we'd block them. That is not okay. And I would never do it. And then the person behind the camera.

[Emily]

Is like, you say you never show.

[Patty]

Up, but then you did show Up.

[Kate]

We were there first. We didn't know he was there.

[Patty]

Then 16 of you, or at Kelsey's in his neighborhood, flown in from California and all over the United States. I mean, I would think if I was him, be like, ah, this might.

[Emily]

Be not so good. Yeah.

[Patty]

And the person behind the camera goes, well, no, because 16 of you flew from all different states to be there and then showed up at the local restaurant he's always at.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And the Grotto girl's like, oh, that's scary.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And, like. But they're not, like, really making her deal with it. But, like, that's not fine. Because in her mind it's fine.

[Tracy]

Right?

[Patty]

In her mind it's okay because she did it.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And, like, it's. It's not fine, right?

[Tracy]

No.

[Patty]

So, but then he would, like, cut to Will, who's explaining that he would meet up and have sex with fans. Like, he would do that, and then he'd be creeped out when the fan would still be acting like a fan after they had sex.

[Tracy]

Right.

[Patty]

And I'm like.

[Tracy]

He's like, I felt like an object. I know.

[Patty]

The fact that a fan is acting as a fan is the least weird part about this is the most obvious. Most like, you know what I mean?

[Tracy]

That's what happened with Disney Mama in the first episode. Like, they're acting the way that they're supposed to be acting, but it's like.

[Patty]

Also, Will, you're just going to breeze past the fact that you're meeting up with fans and having sex with them in exchange for what? Like, that is sex work. And. And just say that it is.

[Tracy]

Yeah, I agree.

[Patty]

Like, it's just so weird.

[Tracy]

I just think he's addicted to the attention. I think that he's addicted to the lifestyle. He's now addicted to the money. And I also think he just doesn't know how to get out of it.

[Patty]

Well, because it's not an option for him. Like, he could. He could have stood up for Disney Mama.

[Storm]

He didn't.

[Patty]

Right. He could have stopped all the drama at any time.

[Storm]

He didn't.

[Tracy]

As we're getting to the end of the documentary, this is where he tries to start getting real, where he's sort of talking about all of his addiction struggles, and he's addicted to weed and drinking and masturbating and anything that gives him any sort of short, short satisfaction. And he has this moment where he's.

[Jessica]

Like, but, man, it has pinned me down, like, in a way that I don't know, like, that there's still that 16 year old boy in there that just has not grown up emotionally because of the bomb. It's. And I even know when I'm smoking, I feel it like I know, like I go down to some like. So I have to stop. It's so hard.

[Tracy]

I have to stop, but it's so hard. And I thought this was the realest moment in the documentary for me was him looking at the camera talking about his addiction to marijuana and how he absolutely knows that he has to stop, but he absolutely can't. Yeah, the TikTok thing is just another addiction for him. It's just another thing that he's addicted to and has a really fucked up relationship.

[Patty]

It's never going to feed you, Will.

[Tracy]

No, he's never going to feed you. Right.

[Patty]

Like he's a 21 year old kid badly lip syncing to Barry Manilow. How did we get from there to here?

[Tracy]

I think it, like for me it all ties into the addiction stuff because I, I think he's addicted to the attention, I think that he's addicted to the lifestyle. He's now addicted to the money. And I also think he just doesn't know how to get out of it.

[Patty]

Because it's not an option for him. Like he could, he could have stood up for Disney Mama. He didn't. He could have stopped all the drama at any time. He didn't.

[Tracy]

Yeah. There's no part of him that really has any moral compass.

[Patty]

There's no part of him that wants to turn, put his phone on silent and put it face down and step away from it. That doesn't exist.

[Tracy]

It does not exist. Yeah.

[Patty]

So because nothing is real until he posts about it. He goes to rehab and posts about it and all these women are crying about how proud they are and threatening to kill themselves.

[Emily]

Some of the women have reached out to him and I will kill myself if you don't go live. I'm extremely depressed because I'm not seeing you every day. It's not Will's problem, but they make it Will's problem.

[Tracy]

Unfortunately there are women who are saying, you can't go to rehab and be offline. I will kill myself.

[Patty]

Right. So it's June 2024. We meet Bill, Will's uncle. And at first I'm like, ooh, an adult in the room maybe? Absolutely not. Egg on my face within two seconds. Bill is like, oh, I'm in contact with his fans. Like Will tells me, Will the fans to contact me.

[Tracy]

He's the social secretary.

[Patty]

I have a connection with everybody in the fandom.

[Tracy]

He says he's also like, my. My nephew came to me sad, and I was like, let's find Jesus.

[Patty]

Let's find Jesus. So In August of 2024, Will has found God. He goes to Greece to get baptized. He invites his fans.

[Tracy]

He does it on a horse with, quote, the best priest. The thing is, to hear Kate tell it, only two fans showed up.

[Patty]

But he says it was an open invitation, which is why I was shocked.

[Tracy]

That there wasn't, like, a thousand fans there.

[Patty]

Me too. Well, the Grotto Girls are only a thousand people, so, like, wait, so how.

[Tracy]

Many fans is it?

[Patty]

That's why I' like, when you really crunch the numbers.

[Tracy]

Yeah. Because Cabe was like. It was just me and one other fan that was really close with his mother. I was like, what?

[Patty]

Like, he's not that popular.

[Tracy]

No.

[Patty]

Like, it was really big in this world, but it wasn't big in the world.

[Tracy]

But also these pictures of him on the horse in the white. In the white clothes, walking into the ocean. This is the most ridiculous. Like, did it for the gram, over the top. It's ridiculous.

[Patty]

It also is proof of, like, how empty his life is.

[Tracy]

Yeah.

[Patty]

And, like, I'm not saying that to, like, be shady about it. Like, I don't like this person just on its face, but, like, it's a very intimate and important ceremony.

[Tracy]

Right.

[Patty]

And it's an open.

[Tracy]

I was baptized.

[Patty]

It's an open invitation to his fans. It's like, where do.

[Tracy]

Did I know?

[Patty]

Were your friends there? Do you have friends? Or did you lose them in this insanity and this madness because you only cared about your fucking phone.

[Tracy]

Yeah. But then in February 2025, like, even though his uncle helped him find God, now he's mad at his Uncle Bill and his wife for being too loud. So he's got to go back and move in with his dad.

[Patty]

Right? So then it's like, by the time he's 30, he wants to be an actor. And I'm like, I know.

[Tracy]

I'm like, how are you not 30 yet? I've aged 10 years.

[Patty]

This documentary is so tired. The women are like, he's changed so many lives.

[Tracy]

I'm like, this is how we're gonna end this.

[Kate]

I hope he just gets, you know, more followers and is able to touch more lives in the way that he has mine.

[Emily]

I hope he understands.

[Storm]

He.

[Emily]

It doesn't matter what he decides to become. He's already something. He's already become something. He is who he is.

[Patty]

I love him and support him in anything and everything. I've made amazing friendships. I'm like, right when you're not doxxing people and threatening to murder their animals.

[Tracy]

I know.

[Patty]

I. Anything negative about William ever? And like, this is where the on screen text says will is over 2 million fans across multiple social media platforms. Which I'm like, is that all?

[Tracy]

Well, now he's got over 2 million just on TikTok. I only know because I look today.

[Patty]

Yeah, but like, oh, and he's only.

[Tracy]

Got like 30,000 on Instagram. So, like, TikTok is like his thing.

[Patty]

Right. And so it says a core group of the Grotto Girls remain and continue their adoration of Will. He continues to be open about his struggles with mental health and addiction issues, which we need. We need to destigmatize it. But I don't think anything he does or says is genuine.

[Tracy]

No.

[Patty]

He has quit and rejoined social media over a dozen times.

[Tracy]

On March 18, 2025, he made one last announcement on all his accounts, quote, quitting social media. Thanks for the support. Love you. Take care. And then there's like a brief pause and then it flashes. He was back two days later. I mean, come on.

[Patty]

Come on.

[Tracy]

Will's going to. Will.

[Patty]

Well, I guess, you know, there's a Will. There's a freaking way. And nothing else about the cousin.

[Tracy]

No, I know. I'll never know there's a Will. There's a gay cousin or what?

[Patty]

Yeah, if. Are they cousins? Like, oh, God.

[Tracy]

Oh, my God. Girl, we did. What's it called? Thirst Trap.

[Patty]

The fame, the fantasy, the fallout.

[Tracy]

Oh, my God.

[Patty]

Everyone, like, take a deep breath. If you recognize yourself in this, really seriously, take a minute. Like, don't end up like these people. Please, please, please, please do.

[Tracy]

Please join our Patreon. We've got over 500 full ad free bonus episodes. Every series ever covered on Netflix, Hulu, hbo, Max.

[Patty]

Yeah. Paramount plus Peacock. All of it.

[Tracy]

We did them all.

[Patty]

We did them all.

[Tracy]

You get all of those episodes at the $5 level. We've got also ad free versions of these episodes. We've got Drag Bingo. We've got a tier where we send you stuff.

[Patty]

Yeah, like ama. Sometimes we just chat with you and catch up and stuff.

[Tracy]

We had a Facebook group. It's called the True Crime Obsessed Podcast Discussion group.

[Patty]

Yep.

[Tracy]

Girl, what are we doing next?

[Patty]

Oh, you're gonna be happy. Another train wreck. PI Moms.

[Tracy]

Yes.

[Patty]

Did you watch that one?

[Tracy]

No, but I heard a podcast about it, but back in the day.

[Patty]

Oh, really?

[Tracy]

Yeah, it's.

[Patty]

It's crazy.

[Tracy]

Okay, I can't Wait.

[Patty]

Yeah. We can't have that.

[Tracy]

You're so good to me. You give me the train wrecks.

[Patty]

Well, there were, like, 11 of them, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy]

Can I ask you a question in front of the fam?

[Patty]

What?

[Tracy]

Are we doing the Lilith Fair doc as our. As our.

[Patty]

It's our last bonus episode.

[Tracy]

I was thinking about it today.

[Patty]

Yeah, it's our last bonus episode of this.

[Tracy]

The Lilith Fair doc is coming through.

[Patty]

As a gift to you.

[Tracy]

Oh, my God, I'm so excited. All right, we love you.

[Storm]

We love you.

[Tracy]

Bye.

[Patty]

Bye.

[Jessica]

The idea of the reality show PI Moms of San Francisco was a very ingenious idea.

[Tracy]

They are private investigator moms going undercover on sting operations and making busts. All in time to get home and help the kids with homework. Check this out. Oh, my God. This is not happening.

[Patty]

I was like, we're gonna be on.

[Tracy]

A billboard as a showrunner. I've got tons of great characters. This is gonna be the easiest show I've ever produced. Chris, why women? You say they're great multitaskers.

[Patty]

That's correct.

[Tracy]

Also, no one really challenges my authority.

[Emily]

This story was supposed to be about.

[Patty]

The PI Moms, but by the deeds.

[Emily]

Of a few men, it was gone.

[Patty]

It was taken away from us. It was all over the place.

[Jessica]

Methamphetamine pictures, FPI moms, police corruption, wiretapping, potential threats, and reality tv.