472: Trainwreck: PI Moms

Summary

True Crime Obsessed: Episode 472 — Trainwreck: PI Moms

Release Date: December 2, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Patrick Hines and Jillian Benavalli recap "Trainwreck: PI Moms," a true crime docuseries chronicling the downfall of a planned reality TV show about San Francisco-area moms working as private investigators. What was meant to be an empowering show about women juggling parenting and undercover investigative work devolved into chaos, featuring deception, staged cases, a sabotaging cast member, and a stunning twist involving public corruption and drug trafficking. With their trademark blend of humor and sharp commentary, Patrick and Jillian break down how everything went spectacularly off the rails.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Concept: PI Moms Reality TV Show

• Premise: Reality show about "PI Moms" who balance undercover work catching cheaters/criminals with motherhood ("all in time to get home and help the kids with homework" [02:37]).
• Initial Hype: Lifetime was eager for the show, pouring $4 million into an 8-episode production ([16:11]).
• Gender Stereotypes: The hosts note how the show’s pitch is laced with both celebration of mothers’ multitasking and subtle condescension (“Can you believe these women can do that?” - Patrick, [06:18]).

2. Meet the Players

• Chris Butler: Owner of "Butler & Associates" (just himself, no “associates” [07:01]); former law enforcement, self-styled “visionary” who hires moms as PIs; immediately gives “bad vibes” ([06:54]).
  • Quote: “I don't have movie star good looks. I look like this.” - Chris ([10:17], restated at [48:32])
• The PI Moms: Denise, Charmaine, Michelle, Ami — all seeking flexible work to balance with parenting. They genuinely wanted to do good and tell real stories ([14:34]).
  • Ami’s motivation: To share her personal trauma and help others ([14:15]; movingly described at [30:28]).
• Carl Marino: The “token man” in the PI team. Former law enforcement, aspiring actor/model, wants to be the star of the show—sets the stage for future sabotage ([12:03], [17:22]).
• Lucas Platt: NYC-based showrunner, looking for the next reality TV hit ([03:47], [04:37]).
• Pete Crooks: Diablo Magazine journalist who first gets an inside look at the PI Moms, and later becomes entangled in the story’s growing web of lies ([21:28]).

3. Early Red Flags & Staged Entertainment

• Staged Cases: Pete the journalist is brought on a “ride-along” to observe an infidelity bust, which turns out to be staged with actors ([24:11]). Both Lucas and Pete are initially duped.
  • “Chris totally played you. The case that you sat in on was totally scripted.” — email from “Ronald Rutherford” ([24:11])
  • Jillian: “Now, Pete does no research or investigation. He immediately believes this email. He's like, I was played for a chump.” ([25:08])
• Case Manufacturing: The PI agency didn’t get enough real client calls; a producer is assigned to find suitable “cases” for filming ([29:06]). The line between manufactured content and real investigation is repeatedly blurred.

4. Sabotage From Within

• Carl’s Interference: Carl, resentful of not being the show's star, sabotages production under the fake name "Ronald Rutherford" ([26:06], [38:43]). He warns a target ahead of a sting operation, causing it to fall apart.
  • Lucas: “It just felt like egotism run amok. The show is called PI Moms and he's not a mom.” ([18:17])
  • Lucas: “The call is coming from within the house.” ([27:46])

5. Escalating Chaos: Drugs, Dirty Cops & an Unraveling Show

• Butler’s Crimes: Amidst show woes, it’s revealed Chris Butler is trafficking confiscated drugs (marijuana, Xanax, meth, steroids), working with a corrupt county cop ([41:52]).
  • “The owner of the company, Butler, is selling large amounts of marijuana along with other drugs, prescription Xanax and steroids that has been confiscated…” ([41:28])
• Police Wire Operation: Carl, the original saboteur, becomes a police informant, wears a wire, and helps bring Butler down ([47:56]).
• Production Mayhem: Lifetime, originally all-in, puts the show on the chopping block after numerous disasters (cases collapsing, crew infighting, drugs), giving one last chance with a missing child case ([50:11]).
• Missing Girl Case: Carl “finds” a missing 15-year-old girl before the PI Moms or the cameras can, angering the production, who are portrayed as caring more about the segment than the child’s safety ([51:04]).

6. The Denouement

• Chris Butler is busted, arrested on multiple felonies (selling drugs, extortion, robbery, illegal wiretapping), and pleads out for 8 years ([54:04], [54:45]).
• Carl parlayed his whistleblowing and TV experience into a new career: playing Joe Kenda’s younger self in Homicide Hunter for 137 episodes ([56:24]).
• The PI Moms, especially Ami, feel robbed of their chance to share meaningful stories and highlight women’s resilience ([54:49]).
  • “I opened up and I shared so much for the first time. And who knows who I could have touched if my story got out.” — Ami, ([54:49])
• The public, misled by the show’s collapse, lumps the women in with the men’s crimes, reinforcing cynical narratives ([56:06]).
• Lucas, the showrunner, laments: “There is a certain type of person who has some kind of emotional hole in the center of their psyche. And they really feel that the adulation of fans is going to fill that hole. And I think that maybe that's what happened with Carl.” ([58:01])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Reality TV’s Portrayal of Women:
  “Can you believe these women can do that? I mean, what—” — Patrick ([06:18])
• On Butler’s Sham Company:
  “This guy, Chris Butler. Bad vibes immediately. I'm like, what's his deal? Also Butler and Associates. It's just Butler. There are no associates.” — Jillian ([06:54])
• About Carl’s Star Complex:
  Lucas: “It just felt like egotism run amok. I explained to him that the show is called PI Moms and he's not a mom.” ([18:17])
• Ami’s Heartbreaking Motive:
  “When my son was 13 months old, I trusted somebody being around my child. But my son was attacked, which caused brain damage. And years later, my son ultimately died.” — Ami ([30:28])
• On the Show’s Downfall:
  “He ruined us so that he can become the center of attention.” — Ami ([58:38])
• On the Insanity of It All:
  “Thanks for ruining everything, men. Thanks. A.” — Jillian ([58:59])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• PI Moms concept & set up: 02:16–06:18
• Introducing Chris Butler & PI Moms: 06:23–10:10
• Role of the token man Carl: 12:03–13:19 / 17:22–18:17
• Show’s production scale ($4M, multiple crews): 16:05–16:24
• Journalist Pete’s staged ride-along: 21:28–24:52
• First whistleblower email exposes fakery: 24:01–24:44
• Manufactured cases & reality TV fakery: 29:06–29:25
• Carl sabotages sting operation: 35:00–38:43
• Drug trafficking & dirty cop revealed: 41:28–47:56
• Undercover wire and Chris Butler arrested: 47:56–53:19
• Show’s cancellation, fallout for PI Moms: 54:26–58:01

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The Tone

True Crime Obsessed lives up to its reputation, with sharp, irreverent, sometimes exasperated banter poking fun at the outlandish characters, the folly of reality TV, and the parade of bad decisions (particularly from the men). There are moments of real empathy (particularly when Ami’s story is discussed) and exasperation at how society always turns the story against women.

“Everything was crazy. It got a little gay for a second. That's always my favorite.” — Patrick ([55:34])

“The PI moms, especially Ami, are here to just say: ‘by the way, remember us over here, the ones not selling drugs or selling everybody out. Like, we really believed in not selling drugs.’” — Patrick ([54:21])

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Conclusion

This episode is a rollercoaster journey through the collapse of a reality TV dream, exposing the egos, scams, and outright crimes that derailed what could have been an inspiring show about women working as private investigators. Instead, it became a cautionary tale about toxic ambition, male sabotage, and the dangers lurking just off-camera in the world of reality TV. Jillian and Patrick deliver both laughs and insight—reminding listeners, above all, that the real casualties were the women whose stories never got told.

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After Party: Jillian teases a companion after-party episode with further research into the corrupt cop, the aftermath of the missing girl case, and everything else that didn’t make it into the docuseries ([59:54–60:07]).

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Next Time: Preview of their next episode on Vanished in Paradise: The Untold Story ([60:23]).

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For listeners who want the full scoop—without wading through merch promos or sponsorship spots—this summary covers the chaos, twists, and social commentary at the heart of TCO’s take on “PI Moms.”

Transcript

[Ami]

Foreign.

[Patrick Hines]

Patrick here. Hey, before we get to the show, we wanted to remind you our end of the year merch closeout sale is happening right now. So as I said, it's going on through the end of the year. It's all of the stock that we've got left. It's 30% off. You can just click the merch link in the show notes here or you can go to our website and click the merch link. Or if you love typing out weird websites, you can go to merch.truecrumb obsessed.com Steve promises me that will take you there as well. Go get yourself something pretty. You know you love the merch and you love 30% off. All right, silly gooses, now to the show. The train wreck episodes are such a gift to me from you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So much. I'm so glad.

[Patrick Hines]

I just really. I just love. I just love a train wreck. What can I say?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Did you struggle with this one at all?

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Was I supposed to?

[Jillian Benavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Did I miss something?

[Jillian Benavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Has my heart officially left my body?

[Jillian Benavalli]

No, no, no, it's not that. It was just a little bit like.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that all?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Is that all there is?

[Patrick Hines]

I guess was. This was a quick one. I was. I was into it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Great, great, great, Good. I love that.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi, Jillian Benavalli.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Hi, Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

Breaking news, fam. Jillian's 10 year passion project, the love of her life, the Hamilcast, is coming to an end. They know this. I'm not breaking the news, but you have like a lineup of the most incredible guests closing out the final episodes. Tell them everything.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So I just had Renee Elise Goldsberry. But starting December 1st and into the end of this thing, which is going to. Leslie Odom Jr. Is kicking it off.

[Patrick Hines]

Unbelievable.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And then all four members of the cabinet are coming back for two episodes apiece, ending with Lin Manuel Miranda for the last two episodes, episodes 499 and 500.

[Patrick Hines]

And we're going to be talking about this in the weeks coming up to the end of this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Not too much, though. Don't worry about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Not too much. I will be more insufferable than she will. I'm so proud of you. And it's such a big accomplishment. It's how we met on this panel.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's how we met. Yes. And it comes up all the time. Like, without that.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We would not be here.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. We also have a discord if you want to hang out with the TCO fam. Check it out there. What's the other thing? Facebook. Oh, YouTube. We're on the YouTube. Over 155,000 subscribers.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It's wild. Thank you for finding us there. What are we talking about today again?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Trainwreck series. This one is PI Moms.

[Chris Butler]

The idea of the reality show PI Moms of San Francisco was a very ingenious idea.

[Patrick Hines]

They are private investigator moms going undercover on sting operations and making busts.

[Jillian Benavalli]

All in time to get home and.

[Patrick Hines]

Help the kids with homework. Check this out.

[Ami]

Oh, my God. This is not happening.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I was like, wow, we're gonna be.

[Pete (Journalist)]

On a billboard as a showrunner. I've got tons of great characters. This is gonna be the easiest show I've ever produced.

[Patrick Hines]

Chris, why women? You say they're great multitaskers.

[Chris Butler]

That's correct. Also, no one really challenges my authority.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This story was supposed to be about the PI Moms, but by the deeds of a few men, it was gone. It was taken away from us. It was all over the place.

[Chris Butler]

Methamphetamine, PI Moms, police corruption, wiretapping, potential threats, and reality tv.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm so obsessed.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Did you love this?

[Patrick Hines]

I had heard about the PI Moms on a podcast. I can't remember when.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Is this American Life?

[Patrick Hines]

Is that what it was? Yeah. So I was great to meet everybody. I was great to see.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I hope it was. I said that very confidently.

[Patrick Hines]

I think you're right. I think you're right.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I feel like I saw that in my research church today.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. There's a guy here with the name Lucas. Lucas was the name of, like, the first boy I ever fell in love with.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So, like, we haven't, like, obsessed about that in a long time.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I mean, the Christmas party, whatever, we'll just leave it. We'll just move on. We'll just move on. It's 2010. We're in New York City. We're meeting Lucas Platt, reality TV producer. This guy is wrapping up the first season of Steven Seagal Lawman. What the hell is that?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I'm so glad you asked. According to IMDb, a reality series that follows action star Steven Seagal's adventures as the fully commissioned deputy with the Jeffers Harris Sheriff's Office in Louisiana. This bitch had three seasons.

[Patrick Hines]

What?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I had no idea they were just.

[Patrick Hines]

Giving out reality shows. At one point, they were just giving them out.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Steven's like a lawman. Like, is he? And then they were just like, be a deputy for three seasons. Very odd.

[Patrick Hines]

Was he, like, deputized?

[Jillian Benavalli]

I guess so. His adventures as a fully commissioned deputy with the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office in Louisiana.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't. This guy Lucas is saying, at the.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Time, shows like that were big business and huge money spinners, and everyone wanted the next Keeping up with the Kardashians, Real Housewives. And there seemed to be no end to the reality boom for me, though. I just really love the adrenaline rush and the quick thinking that you had to do to. To come up with a great hour of television.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone's looking for the next Kardashians or the Housewives. Cut to a scene of Kim Kardashian punching her sister. Why is she always hitting her sisters?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Is she. I have no. I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

I see it on, like, the TikTok all the time. She's always punching the Chloe or the Carly or the whatever.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Kim is always the.

[Patrick Hines]

She's always the puncher. She's never the puncher.

[Jillian Benavalli]

No one else punches.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't think anyone punches Kim.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Khloe's never gotten a good one in.

[Patrick Hines]

Chloe's the blonde one.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She's the tall one. I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

She's the one that Kim was always punching, I think.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Really?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's wild.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Doesn't Khloe have, like, at least six inches on her?

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We are talking way too. This is the most I've talked about the Kardashians ever. Maybe ever.

[Patrick Hines]

It's unbelievable. Well, this guy Lucas is looking for his next job. He gets an email from Lifetime Television for women. They are interested in making a reality TV show in San Francisco about a bunch of Pisces who are also moms.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah, that's the big twist. Not only are they women, but they're all moms.

[Patrick Hines]

But you know what? They're going to say at some point that, like, moms make great PIs, and I bet they do.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

For, like, certain reasons.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It's so interesting because as much as they're, like, infantilizing women here and being like, can you stand it? Can you even believe. I know idiots, like, are smart, but they do say a couple of truths that, like, women and moms are real good at multitasking.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benavalli]

You know, and just sort of, like, running shit and getting shit done. Which, you know, I fully agree with. I just, you know, it's a little like, can you. Can you.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you believe these women can do that? I mean, what.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, speaking of, we meet Denise. She came from the legal world.

[Jillian Benavalli]

She said she's a PI mom. She's like one of the PI moms. I had just become a new mom, and I had very Small children, and was trying to figure out how I could still have a career but also be with my kids. And that's when it popped up. This job at Butler and Associates. And then she found Butler and Associates.

[Patrick Hines]

She finds a PI mom job on, like, a help wanted board.

[Chris Butler]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, is that how that works?

[Jillian Benavalli]

This guy, Chris Butler.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Bad vibes immediately. I'm like, what's his deal? Also Butler and Associates. It's just Butler. There are no associates.

[Patrick Hines]

There's no associates.

[Jillian Benavalli]

I think he just named it that. You can name your company anything you want. Everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

You can also call yourself Esquire. I know some people who do.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Oh, yeah, Same. But, like, you can. He could just name his company Butler & Associates, LLC. And no one is. The notary isn't like, where are those.

[Patrick Hines]

Associates? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally. You don't see them at.

[Patrick Hines]

All. I mean, it could be like, Heinz and Sons. I don't have any. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? Exactly. This guy is bad. The minute he was on screen from old footage, he, of course, is not sitting down. I'm like, I hate this.

[Patrick Hines]

Guy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. But Denise is like, calm down, Jillian. Working for him was great. He was very professional. He, quote, stumbled on the secret of investigative work, which was hiring.

[Patrick Hines]

Moms. Hiring moms. But Denise is saying that, like, it really was empowering knowing that, like, you could, like, be a working mom, take the kids to school, and then go do a job that you feel is really important to do. Like, you're looking for the bad guys. You're hunting down the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Cheaters.

[Patrick Hines]

Love. You know, I think that's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Great. The thing that is sort of a through line here, because I'm kind of like, okay. Like, they love. Like, Denise is like, I love getting shit done in a career. She loved. Love this. Right. Undercover work, investigating fraud.

[Patrick Hines]

Or.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Finding a cheating spouse. Which is the one that she's the most excited about, which I think most people would be the most excited.

[Patrick Hines]

About. Me, too. But there's a real fine line between PI moms and cheaters. Remember the Cheaters show, which was all totally staged. Well, except for the time that they stabbed that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Really? There was, like, the host got stabbed in one of the episodes or.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Something. Really went off script. Sorry. I don't know. How Is he okay? Did he get really, really.

[Patrick Hines]

Hurt? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, this is. This is a little bit, like, people really don't want to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Get. I thought they were literally hiring actors for that show. Or like, are you in a relationship? Do you want to act like you're not. Like, do you want to be on.

[Patrick Hines]

Cheaters? You and I should have gone on.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Cheaters. Oh my.

[Patrick Hines]

God. She's just a.

[Ami]

Friend. Oh.

[Jillian Benavalli]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Benavalli]

Back. Yeah. My big thing about sleeping is the temperature. It's gotta be the perfect temperature. Which I always thought was impossible until miracle made sheets came.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Benavalli]

Girl. And on top of that, like, temperature check. Great. They also stay clean.

[Patrick Hines]

Longer.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Thanks. So they have this antibacterial silver technology. So Miracle made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets. There aren't as many things I hate than like laundry day with the.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Bedding.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And like the sheets.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Stink. It's too much. So this is fewer odors, fewer wash cycles, way less.

[Patrick Hines]

Laundry. I mean the whole thing is that they feel like those fancy hotel sheets. I got into bed last night and I like, I just climbed into the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Bed. Like you're like kicking your.

[Patrick Hines]

Feet. Yeah. And you're like sliding on these like smooth, silky cool sh. I love my Miracle.

[Jillian Benavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Benavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Benavalli]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Benavalli]

Checkout. Thanks to Miracle Made for sponsoring this.

[Patrick Hines]

Episode. Thanks Miracle.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Made. Thank you. So Chris Butler is in here.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously, but he worked in law enforcement for 10 years that it was.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Tumultuous. He's always playing the tough guy. I push the envelope. I don't stop. Whatever. Shut.

[Patrick Hines]

Up. At what point we're gonna hear this guy say, I don't have movie star good looks. I look like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This. I.

[Patrick Hines]

Know. I'm like, you know, I know who you are, Chris.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Butler. So we meet Ami. She is a PI.

[Ami]

Mom. She says, my first impression of Chris was definitely like a businessman. But I also saw his vision and I thought, wow, he's got a great idea. I mean, he's really trying to give mothers an opportunity. And at that time, I wanted that opportunity as.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Well. She's like, it's a really great idea. She's.

[Patrick Hines]

In. Because I think these women are seeing it as, like, an opportunity for women to, like, work with women. Show, like, how amazing that sort of camaraderie is and how, like, well, women can work together if you leave them alone.

[Jillian Benavalli]

100%. But also. And moms chime in. But, like, I think they don't have to, like, hide that they're a.

[Patrick Hines]

Mom. Oh, right, too.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. You know, there's a lot of like. Oh, you, you. I think there's like some kind of stigma sometimes about that. Is that the right.

[Patrick Hines]

Word? Well, but I mean, like, the stigma being like, why are you working when you should be home raising your.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Children? They can just like, unabashedly be exactly who they are, which is like moms. But they also want to catch the.

[Patrick Hines]

Cheaters.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. They don't have to hide anything about.

[Patrick Hines]

That.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Because Ami says, you know, she missed a lot of birthday parties, she missed a lot of.

[Patrick Hines]

Holidays. She worked at the sheriff's department. She was saying it was like 12 hour days. And it was just like, why does it have to be like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That? I don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Know. Do we just need to hire.

[Jillian Benavalli]

More sheriffs and people just, like, need to pay for kids, you know, like, they need the money. And, like, daycare is hard. Childcare is super hard to.

[Patrick Hines]

Find. I mean, it really is so unbelievably.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Expensive. So she's like, okay, well, this is great. Because it's much more flexible. She's working with other moms. She loves being a.

[Patrick Hines]

Pie.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So everyone loved it. It was Michelle, it was Charmaine, it was Denise, it was Ami, and.

[Patrick Hines]

It was one guy, Carl Marino, former law enforcement. They brought him on board in case they needed a token.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Man.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Which I thought was.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Funny. You know, sometimes you just need a guy around for a particular.

[Patrick Hines]

Case. I can see it if you gotta. If they've gotta pretend to be on a date to catch the cheater. You know what I mean? Although I feel like Ami and Denise would make a cute.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Couple.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know what I mean? But like, they got a neck.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Tattoo. I know. She's.

[Patrick Hines]

Badass. She's got a neck tattoo of a butterfly. I was like, oh, my. I cannot imagine how one gets that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Done. It probably.

[Patrick Hines]

Hurt. Yeah. Quite a bit. That's what I'm. That's what I'm.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Thinking. And, like, took more than 10 minutes, you.

[Patrick Hines]

Know?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Badass. So first of all, the women are like, you Know, initially we were like, wow, he's very attractive and he kind of looks like a model. And we started to learn that he was interested in acting and did some extra roles on tv. He kind of looks like a.

[Patrick Hines]

Model. He's not that good.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Looking. I.

[Patrick Hines]

Agree. He's really not that hot, which is like, okay. I mean. All right. So apparently he had been a model. He was interested in.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Acting. He was an actor on the.

[Patrick Hines]

Side. Yeah. He done some extra work or.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Whatever his IMDb we will get to this in a minute. I know. Everyone is screaming about who this guy is. I know. We'll get.

[Patrick Hines]

There. People know this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Guy. We'll get.

[Patrick Hines]

There.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay. It's in the documentary. They tell us.

[Patrick Hines]

They. I looked it up too, but I was like, what the hell is that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Show? Yeah. So like, a lot of uncredited roles on his IMDb it's like, uncredited. He was in an episode of Looking. He played.

[Patrick Hines]

Friend. He was an episode of Looking.

[Jillian Benavalli]

The gay HBO show.

[Patrick Hines]

Friend. Oh.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Interesting. Anyway, Chris Butler is the owner of this PI Moms thing, and he's really trying to get a lot of media attention on the PI moms. And suddenly we're on Dr.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Phil.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. So, like, the. I guess the idea is that he's like pitching this show, looking for a production company to, like, pick it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Up. Right. And they're really leaning into the like, again. Can you believe that not only are they women, but they're mothers. They could do like.

[Patrick Hines]

That. I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. Not.

[Patrick Hines]

Appreciate. It really is bad. So this guy Lucas, the producer from New York, he sees the doctor Phil could be fly. He flies out to San Francisco to meet with.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Chris. He's on a plane immediately because he's like, this is going to be a.

[Patrick Hines]

Show. Yeah. And it really does seem like a good. Like, I would have watched.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. Yeah. Except none of the women want to be on it because they don't want to be the Real Housewives of.

[Patrick Hines]

PIs. And that's the thing. Like, these women actually just like, want to do the good work. And Lucas is there to assure them it's not going to be that. It's going to be about you. It's going to be about your interesting lives. And on me especially was like.

[Ami]

I had little bit of a rough background, and Lucas said that we could definitely incorporate my traumas into the show itself. And so I decided I wanted to show other women that you can survive and you can make it. And don't let anyone tell you you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Can. You can survive. You can make it. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't. Amazing, right? So everyone's really excited, like, yay, we're gonna do it. We're gonna show who we really are. We're gonna be honest about what we've been through. We're gonna catch they're cheating or not. Like, hell.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. We meet Teresa, line.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Producer. Look, if there's a problem in the production, Teresa is fixing it. Don't worry about, let me tell you. Get the fuck out of her.

[Patrick Hines]

Way. Get out of her way. There's a cinematic zoom in on her as she says. If there's a problem in production, we have people, personnel, schedules, location, money. It is my job to fix.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. And the guy behind the camera goes, oh, so you're the real boss then. Yeah, well, I mean, if you're.

[Patrick Hines]

Going to say it, I mean, oh my God. I would note here, how do I get a job working for Theresa.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So she can teach me everything I.

[Patrick Hines]

Know? Maybe I'll be her.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Intern. Yeah, she'll be like, here's what you can do. Do. Like, yeah, she'll give you stuff to get out of her.

[Patrick Hines]

Hand. You're either born a Teresa or you aren't. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? Really? You don't you think Teresa's are born, not.

[Patrick Hines]

Made. Teresa be the Teresa you want to see in the world? Yeah, Teresa's are born and not.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Made. Teresa's got to do everything her goddamn self well. But see, there is a better job for.

[Patrick Hines]

It. Yeah, there is a downside to being a Teresa. You know what I mean? Teresa, I see you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Girl. Teresa's like, look, lifetime was in a thousand percent. They saw the possibilities, they saw the spin offs, they saw the.

[Patrick Hines]

Money. I mean, it's hard to remember what life was like in 2010, but like reality TV was, you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. Absolutely. And Joanne is a production manager and she says for a reality show, this was a pretty big scale production. There were three camera crews, multiple locations, and just a lot of different.

[Ami]

Elements. I think our budget was about 4 million for eight episodes, which is.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Obviously a healthy budget, but only if.

[Patrick Hines]

You'Re getting all the things you need.

[Jillian Benavalli]

To make a show happen. For a reality show, this was a very big scale.

[Patrick Hines]

Production. Yeah, $4 million for eight episodes like in 2010. That's a lot of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Money. Three camera crews, multiple locations, a lot of moving.

[Patrick Hines]

Parts. You know, we've done a couple of episodes of the Mob Wives for the hero belts here they have multiple camera crews like that. That show was a high budget reality.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Show. Especially when you have a lot of people where Anything could happen at any time. Like you have to. Especially in Mob Wives specifically, I think with, like, Renee's husband is waiting to be sentenced and dried. Is waiting to see when Lee is going to call her saying he's coming home. Like, anything could happen at any time. You have to be.

[Patrick Hines]

There. One of the episodes we did, like, there was just like a camera crew sitting there filming one of them, Renee sleeping on her couch, waiting. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I was like, I guess this. It's just wild how, like, the production that goes into these.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Things. Yeah. So we're ready to get started. Lucas, the showrunner, shows up to the offices and Carl Marino pulls him aside and makes his big pitch. And Carl says, look, he feels very strongly that Carl, a man, should be the main character. And the show they're making, which is called P I. Moms and is focusing on women. But sure, Carl, let's make it all about.

[Patrick Hines]

You. The thing about, like, people like Lucas have to deal with this all day, every day. There's always a fucking Carl Marino that you gotta, like, say, you're not gonna be this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Darn. You're not special. You are a dime a dozen. But Carl continues, And even as I wrote this, I went drop page continues. Yeah, but anyway, he was like, I. Lucas, I'm sure you know this, right? Thank you for not asking for a.

[Patrick Hines]

Photo.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. He was on a show called Trauma. What is this show up too? But he says he was like, I was a huge scene stealer and a heartthrob. You should totally make me the focus of a show called P I Mom so that all the ladies tune in for the eye.

[Patrick Hines]

Candy. He was on to, like, all 20 episodes of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. Yeah. 2009 show. 2009, 20 episodes. Like, nothing special. Like, girl, if you were that big of a.

[Patrick Hines]

Star.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. You wouldn't be be pulling Lucas aside on the set of PI Moms to make your big pitch. So Lucas, the Lucas who has so many choice quotes. Here he goes. I explained to him it just.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Felt like egotism run amok. I explained to him that the show is called PI Moms and he's not a mom. I'm so sorry, but the network has already decided that it's going to be Chris and the moms, and that was.

[Ami]

That.

[Pete (Journalist)]

That. So I thought, okay, he's out of the picture, we're good to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Go. The network has already decided what they want and it doesn't include Carl. So by Carl, Carl, play your.

[Patrick Hines]

Cards right and you can be like, the guy in the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Background. You know, showed his.

[Patrick Hines]

Hand.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Immediately.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. He does not know what subtlety is. He has no patience. He also, like, doesn't really know how the business works, which shows me that he's just an.

[Patrick Hines]

Amateur. I mean, when. Oh, God, we'll get there. So it's first day of shooting. Denise is like, everyone's excited. They're showing them training, they're working on cases. The whole thing is about, like, they want to inspire other women to do this kind of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Work. Lucas is like, this is going to be the easiest show I ever produced. It is puppies and rainbows and unicorns and glitter. It is.

[Patrick Hines]

Incredible. And the producer goes, and was it. And he just laughs and puts his head in his.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Hands. Right? So it's always, you know, what's the opposite of, like. It's always the darkest before the dawn. It's always puppies and rainbows and before everything goes to.

[Patrick Hines]

Shit. Well, enter Pete.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Crooks. Right? I mean, unfortunate.

[Patrick Hines]

Name. I know, I know.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Crooks. But he's like, gonna be like the. The source of truth.

[Patrick Hines]

Here. Well, he's like the senior writer for this Diablo magazine. I actually looked this guy up today to see what other kind of writing he'd done. It's all like, you know, like, stop and shop opens on Route 141. Like, it's. It's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Not. That's.

[Patrick Hines]

Important. I. I totally agree. He wanders into this major story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Because. Or shop and stop, as my mom sometimes calls.

[Patrick Hines]

It. Shop and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Stop. You know, it's a very easy thing.

[Patrick Hines]

To. Does she call it Barnes and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Nobles? No, she does.

[Patrick Hines]

Not. Okay. My mother does. And it makes me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Crazy. Oh.

[Patrick Hines]

God. I know. No, I should have put her in the home 10 years.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Ago. You have not. You have yet to go. No.

[Patrick Hines]

Contact. But I know. Stoles. Stoles and soda. I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know.

[Patrick Hines]

Girl. Uncommon Goods is back. So Steve wanted me to mention we got all of our gifts for our nieces and nephews on Uncommon Goods. The best, he got an Advent calendar that is, like, science based. So every day leading up to Christmas, the kids are doing, like, a science experiment. He got one for Daisy and all of the nieces and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Nephews. I love Uncommon Goods so much because they look for products that are high quality, that are unique and often handmade or made in the US So they're like. Most of them are crafted by independent artists or small businesses. So every gift feels, like, really special and unique and perfect for the.

[Patrick Hines]

Person. And it honestly makes gift giving and gift buying fun again. Like, you know what I mean? Like, who wants to do it. But then you go to oncoming Goods and you're like, I want that and I want that. And I know exactly who that is.

[Jillian Benavalli]

For. Especially if you have people in your life who are kind of hard to buy for. Yeah, it is a very good site for.

[Patrick Hines]

That. Oh, and not to mention, with every purchase, Uncommon goods gives back a dollar to a nonprofit partner of your choice. Choice. They've donated more than 3.1 million bucks.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Today. Yeah. And we're adding to that. We're adding on a regular.

[Patrick Hines]

Basis. We love it so much, fam. So don't wait. Make this holiday the year to give something truly.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Unforgettable. To get 15 off your next.

[Patrick Hines]

Gift, go to UncommonGoods.com TCO that's UncommonGoods.com TCO for 15%.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Off. And don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon Goods were all out of the.

[Patrick Hines]

Ordinary. Get that advent.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Calendar. Yes. And candles have so many good.

[Patrick Hines]

Candles. I truly love them. So anyway, Pete is just saying one day as a journalist, he gets a.

[Chris Butler]

Call. Beverly Hills publicist emailed me and said, hey, you might not know this, but there's a group of private eye investigators who are also sort of soccer moms and they are filming for a new reality series for Lifetime television. Would you like to ride along on an investigation on a day off from filming? And I really smell called a great story.

[Patrick Hines]

Here. Would you like to go on a ride along on a non filming day and sort of write a story about it?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Sure. That's interesting for this. Like, you know, that has millions of dollars that in the budget, but they're gonna do investigating on a non filming.

[Patrick Hines]

Day. Exactly. Right.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. I thought, weird. Why not film it? You're investigating.

[Patrick Hines]

Now?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. It's a show called Private investigator.

[Patrick Hines]

Moms.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. We're not filming on an investigating day. That was just interesting to.

[Patrick Hines]

Me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Nobody. Does it come back. No, I know. It struck me. It's like percent yes. Let's go, let's go, let's.

[Patrick Hines]

Go. And Denise tells us about the case that they're following. It's an infidelity.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Case. A typical.

[Patrick Hines]

Infidelity. Typical infidelity. The woman wanted to make sure the guy wasn't cheating on her before they got.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Married. Yeah, she's getting married in a month. She's like, am I calling this thing off or what? Like she thinks he's cheating. Also, if you think someone's cheating, they probably.

[Patrick Hines]

Are. And like, to your point, they are filming because Pete's there for this ride along and there's footage of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? But we're off in the minivan. I'm like, wow, really leaning into the soccer mom trope, are.

[Patrick Hines]

We? I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. We're in the car. It's exciting. They're crouching in the car, secretly filming. We see the fiance. Pete has butterflies. He can't stand it. The most exciting day of his life. It's unclear if it's their actual footage. I guess it.

[Patrick Hines]

Is. It must be, because it's. I think it is. And the balloon boy of it all where this guy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

He'S. They're like, anyway, of course he's cheating.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? He's like. He's in the car with, like, another brunette who's not his fiance. They get out of the car to walk into this restaurant. They stop right in front of the PI moms.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Van. The shot couldn't be.

[Patrick Hines]

Better. Like, you guys need us to be a little more.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Centered. It's just the perfect.

[Patrick Hines]

Shot.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. It is just perfect, everyone. I wonder how this is. This happen. Yeah, I wonder. They're making out. I mean, like, the plane is going down. The tongues in the throats. They are like one o' clock.

[Patrick Hines]

In the afternoon in a parking lot.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like a block away from his. Where he lives with his girlfriend. It's so.

[Patrick Hines]

Stupid. Exactly. But come back to Pete. Pete is me. This seems like it's going to make a great.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Show. He's like, oh, my God. He. They're printing money with the.

[Patrick Hines]

Show. They're printing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Money. Oh, my God, everyone. The moms are great and likable. He goes, this is an idea that can't miss. And then suddenly, everything changes because Pete gets another email. His inbox is.

[Patrick Hines]

Full. He gets an email from a guy named Ronald Rutherford. Like, Jillian, you cannot make it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Up. Except it was made.

[Patrick Hines]

Up. Except it was made up. Ronald's got some.

[Chris Butler]

Tea. He's like, it would be a mistake to publish the article on the PI Moms and Chris Butler. Chris totally played you. The case that you sat in on was totally scripted. All the participants were employees or parents, paid actors. I am not sure what your intentions are with the article, but I hope that publishing it is not in your plans. Thanks. A concerned citizen don't publish your.

[Patrick Hines]

Article that that cheating case was totally fake. Those were actors or employees. Chris totally played. You signed a concerned.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Citizen. Chris Butler is the guy who's Chris Butler and Associates, who's like, his big ideas. PI.

[Patrick Hines]

Moms. That's him. Yeah. And so it cuts back to Pete, and Pete's like, this was wild because I never suspected that it had been staged at all. That's me. I'm sor. Sorry. I'm with Pete. I'm like, you guys, can you believe it? They just started making out right in front of her.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Camera. Like, putting the girl on her mark to be like, no, let's make out right here. Like, moving her.

[Patrick Hines]

Over. This is this. This TV show is meant to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Be. Now, Pete does no research or investigation. He immediately believes this email. He's like, I was played for a chump. And I'm like, pete, can we ask a.

[Patrick Hines]

Question? Is not working for Time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Magazine. A deep, deep breath for two seconds. He immediately is like, how dare.

[Patrick Hines]

They? I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. Oh, my.

[Patrick Hines]

God. But then he said, pete's about to get in way over his head, by the way. But Pete is also, like, if Butler is willing to do this to, like, some chumpy local reporter like me, like, he'll totally pull one over on the TV network. So he's like, I got to talk to the guy in charge, Lucas, the showrunner. Now, what is so wild about this is that this episode of Trainwreck PI Moms recreates all of these moments, which is so.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Wild. Which is why I'm like, is that the real footage of the.

[Patrick Hines]

Cheating? It seems like all the women are.

[Jillian Benavalli]

There. I love. Hey, every. Everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

Listening?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. If you're making a documentary, could you just let us.

[Patrick Hines]

Know? I know it's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

The. The dog lower.

[Patrick Hines]

Thirds.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Be respectful. Yeah, Let us.

[Patrick Hines]

Know.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Actual. The footage is real or not actual recreated footage. It's okay if it's not 100%. I just want to.

[Patrick Hines]

Know. We ask so little. Seriously, you know what I mean? So Lucas gets this email from Pete, and they are reenacting the whole thing. Like, Lucas opening the email. They meet for coffee. Now, this was 2010. It is 2025. This was 15 years ago. They are reenacting like, oh, hey, I'm.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Lucas. I mean, they're.

[Patrick Hines]

Mean. It's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

So. We just got to get on with it. Pete's like, hey, I'm going to publish an article about how your show is fake and ruin it before it even starts. And Luke is like, whoa, wait, I can explain now. I thought Lucas is going to be like, fudge you. Like, you're full of shit. You have no idea what you're talking about. No, no. So every Lucas is like, wait, wait, wait. Everything we're doing is real. The cases are legit. The women are real. The PI Moms are real. The training is real. The research is.

[Patrick Hines]

Real?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Will we do things like stage conversations about updates on the case? Sure. That's reality TV 101. The clients in the case cases.

[Patrick Hines]

They are all real, except for the fact that we learned that the problem was nobody was calling them for PI work. Like, there weren't enough.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Cases. So Pete. Journalist Pete's like, all right, Lucas, I like the cut of your jit. Like, I believe.

[Patrick Hines]

You. Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. He believes everything that's said to.

[Patrick Hines]

Him.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. The first.

[Patrick Hines]

Try.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So he's like, well, here's the thing. There's this Ronald Rutherford character who sent me this email. Like, that's why I'm here yelling at you about how I'm going to destroy your show before it even.

[Patrick Hines]

Starts.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And Lucas clocks us right.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Away. He's like, pete told me about this Ronald Rutherford character. And at that point, then I did get worried because it was very clear that someone's trying to ruin the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Series. I wonder who has motivation to ruin the show. Was there someone who maybe wanted to be on the show? And then I didn't let him.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the call is coming from within the house. It's gotta be somebody, like, on the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Inside. And Lucas, as he's telling us this in 20, 20, 25, is. It's all coming back to him. He's rubbing his face. He's, like, about to cry. Lucas.

[Patrick Hines]

Today.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Thinking about how this all went.

[Patrick Hines]

Wrong. Because when you're Lucas, you're thinking like, this show should have worked. This should have been his.

[Chris Butler]

Kardashians.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. This should have been the PI Moms. San Francisco PI Moms. LA PI Moms, Georgia. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? Unfortunately, however, there was actually kind of a.

[Chris Butler]

Problem.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Chris Butler, the owner of this PI Moms thing, lied to Lucas, the showrunner, to get the show.

[Patrick Hines]

Made.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. He overpromised. According to Chris Butler, the phone is ringing off the hook. These women barely see their kids anymore. They're working so hard. And real. Real cases. Not just, like, cheating boyfriends. Like, real. Right. There weren't that many.

[Patrick Hines]

Cases. Like, if we were to open, like, the Heinz and Pennsylvania PI association tomorrow, would we get 100 call? Like, who's who? Like, how often are PIs being.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Hired? I don't know. Clearly not that.

[Chris Butler]

Often.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Or no one wants to be associated with you, Chris, because you're a fudgeing.

[Patrick Hines]

Weirdo. Right. Well, they bring in another Chris, a woman. Chris. She's a story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Producer. Lucas told me that Chris had over. Promised. Promised how many cases he was actually working on. So I was Brought on to find cases that the PI moms could sleuth out. Yeah. In effect, I was drumming up business for.

[Patrick Hines]

Chris. She is hired to, like, sort of find more.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Cases. So just to, like, slow down on this. The cases are not coming to them.

[Patrick Hines]

Organically.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So was the case real? Yes. Is someone really in need of a PI?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Only they weren't calling PI moms. Chris, the producer, was finding them and then putting everything.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Together.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. How they got the cases was manufactured because Chris Butler, the owner of this whole thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Lied. And also, according to Lucas, Chris Butler, the owner of this whole thing, sucks on.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Camera. Oh, he's a fucking.

[Patrick Hines]

Trip. Like, he's not fun. He keeps everything close to the vest. He's, like, introverted. He's like, that is a character killer for reality.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Tv. And Lucas is, like, all that to say, though, like, this is all about the moms. The moms are great. The moms will carry the show. And to which I say to Lucas, like, yeah, and honestly, Chris can be phased out. Let the audience handle it. They'll let you know. Yeah, you can phase him out.

[Patrick Hines]

Easy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally. Everyone is playing their cards. Cards not at all close to the chest vest. Which one.

[Patrick Hines]

Is? I think it's a. It started out vest, but then people started saying chest. So now you can say either everyone's showing their hand. Everyone showing their hand. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? Everyone is just telling everyone what they're going to do and what their motivations.

[Patrick Hines]

Are. One bad apple ruins the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Banana.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? 100. So, I mean, she's the one who didn't want to do it, but then she wants to use the platform to share her story and help other.

[Patrick Hines]

Women. Yeah. She wanted to tell the world about what happened to her son as, like, a cautionary tale. And she doesn't really tell us.

[Ami]

But she said, when My son was.

[Jillian Benavalli]

13 months.

[Ami]

Old, I trusted somebody being around my child. But my son was attacked, which caused brain damage. And years later, my son ultimately.

[Patrick Hines]

Died. And a couple years later, he died. And she's crying now. She says he was a special boy. But this is why Ami agreed to be a part of this show. She wanted to honor her son's legacy and also, like, sort of tell the story of what she'd been through to, like, help other parents not go.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Through that for the first time. Yeah, because she said that she didn't even tell her family as much as she told Lucas and her other. Her fellow PI Moms didn't know. So she was really opening up to the world in this very real powerful.

[Patrick Hines]

Way.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. So that scene, because she does it on camera, she's getting a tattoo on camera. So, like, that scene was a turning point. And that's sort of when everyone behind the camera, in front of the camera sort of knew that there was something special brewing. That's what everyone's saying. That that was a moment where it was like, we can do some good here. And then it sort of becomes a thing. And this happens all the time where it's like, oh, we thought we were going to do a show about this, but it's really about these.

[Patrick Hines]

Women. Right. And that really does happen all the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Time. You know it does. Because when you have a story like, like someone is willing to be vulnerable and like other people have gone through awful things, it's really about women.

[Patrick Hines]

Surviving.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. Supporting each other as opposed to the fucking cheating.

[Patrick Hines]

Boyfriends. And like, wouldn't it be magical if we could have a reality TV show that was actually like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That? Well, we.

[Patrick Hines]

Can'T. You know what I mean? Like, why can't.

[Jillian Benavalli]

We? I don't know, you know, today. And we can't today, unfortunately. I know, but this is when they were like, we got to ramp up.

[Patrick Hines]

Shooting.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Which is also like, can we hold tight for a minute? This happened organically. This was real. We can't recreate that. Can we just it be what it's going to.

[Patrick Hines]

Be.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. No one has the.

[Patrick Hines]

Time. No. And like, that's the thing about.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Tv. No one has any.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Time.

[Patrick Hines]

Girl. Our place is.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Back. Let's talk about the our place four piece cookware.

[Patrick Hines]

Set. Oh.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. So our place has the nonstick cookware that doesn't contain any harmful chemicals. Like.

[Patrick Hines]

Teflon.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. Because most nonstick companies do. They don't.

[Patrick Hines]

Know. They don't. And I got to tell you, this four piece cookware set has every single thing you need to, like, make your kitchen multifamily functional. Like, imagine only needing four pots and pans and you could do it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

All and it's like high performance space saving. They're pretty. They're just.

[Patrick Hines]

Pretty. They really like. It's an upgrade no matter what you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Have. Yeah. So like, instead of buying these like full sets that you can like barely get in your front.

[Patrick Hines]

Door.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yep. Four pieces do it.

[Patrick Hines]

All. Yeah, it saves you like 150 bucks when you do it that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Way. Yeah. You just gotta use the bundle and save option. It's very.

[Patrick Hines]

Easy. Look, we use our place every single night. We're trying to be better about cooking. Steve. Use it we pull it out. It looks gorgeous. The food is amazing. And we know we're not ingesting any of those toxic chemicals that the other nonstick pans.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Use. Also, just gonn had this on. They have this wonder oven. It is an air fryer and toaster oven. It's sold out eight times. I'm obsessed with.

[Patrick Hines]

It. I know you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Are. I'm obsessed with it. So get the cookware set. But also, if you're in the market for a revolutionary air fryer, slush.

[Patrick Hines]

Toaster. And it's also.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Gorgeous. It's.

[Patrick Hines]

Gorgeous. So them Our Place is having their biggest sale of the year right now. Save up to 35% sitewide now through January.

[Jillian Benavalli]

12Th. Head to fromourplace.com tco to see why more than a million people have made the switch to Our Place.

[Patrick Hines]

Kitchenware. And with their 100 day risk free trial, free shipping, and free returns, you can shop with total.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Confidence. Shop the Our Place holiday sale right now. No code.

[Patrick Hines]

Needed. Yeah, it's almost like it's gift giving season. Almost.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Almost. So the unlicensed PI Is this new.

[Patrick Hines]

Case. Chris, the woman producer, finds this story about this unlicensed guy who's going around doing detective work. And so the idea is, the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

PI moms, they were going to sting and actually actual unlicensed private investigator by setting him up with a pretend case and then bust him. Like, hey, you're not supposed to do this without a.

[Patrick Hines]

License. They're gonna hire him, give him a case, let him, like, solve it as a PI Then bust him for doing PI work unlicensed. I'm like, isn't that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Entrapment?

[Chris Butler]

Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And I gotta tell.

[Chris Butler]

You.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Please don't get mad at.

[Patrick Hines]

Me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me? Yeah. Because the show, at first I'm like, I'm so in. But the show's all.

[Patrick Hines]

Fluff. I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. Like, everything we're learning about doesn't really match the, like, I want to be with my kids and also change the world.

[Patrick Hines]

Vibe.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. That we were hearing about even today from the women. So it's like we got the fake cheating. You have the fake PI like, where's.

[Patrick Hines]

The. You're also. You're hiring this guy to be a PI So you can bust him for doing it unlicensed. That's kind of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Fucked. It's like, how is this any different than a Real Housewives.

[Patrick Hines]

Thing? I mean, I guess the difference is they're not, like, throwing tables and, like, punching each other. I know, but, you know, housewives.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Girly. I'm very new to it. But yeah, Salt Lake City, New York, New Jersey, Beverly Hills. I'm looking for my next one. I think I might do. I don't know what I want to do.

[Patrick Hines]

Yet. Oh, my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

God. But I'm just saying, like, it's very. The first 10 minutes of this thing was all about, like, you don't understand what we.

[Patrick Hines]

Do. And I think that's the reality is, like, you go in with a vision of, like, we're going to change the world, and then it's like, oh, my God, we got a TV contract and now we got to do anything to sort of get the show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Made. And I guess I'm being a little harsh because, I mean, was with her.

[Patrick Hines]

Story.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. But like, the cases. Yeah, we're all fluff, which is fine. I give a shit more about the stories 100%. So anyway, they filmed everything leading up to the bust. The research, the planning. They just needed the actual bust. They close the.

[Patrick Hines]

Case. That's a reminder. They did the hiring of this guy, gave him the case for him to PI and then they were going to bust him for doing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. Also that, you know, it's the day of the sting.

[Patrick Hines]

Y'. All.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Yeah. I was in my production office waiting to hear back from my producer producers. 10 o', clock, nothing. 11 o', clock, nothing. Noon.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Nothing. Lucas was just pacing back and forth, and I was kind of just looking around going, what is going.

[Ami]

On? We were like, oh, no, he's not gonna show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Up. The unlicensed P.I. however, is ghosting the P.I. moms. They have this plan to meet and hours are going by and he's not showing up. So they can't bust.

[Patrick Hines]

Him. Right. And, like, Lucas is in his, like, production office pulling his hair out. Like, Lifetime TV for is like, on the phone with him every five minutes. Like, what is happening over.

[Jillian Benavalli]

There? Is that your favorite not motto.

[Patrick Hines]

Tagline? Yeah. Because it was Lifetime television for women and gay men. Like, that was what it was because, like, Lifetime was the first one to run the Golden Girls. They were the first ones that women. And then Will and Grace was like, the first reruns were on Lifetime. Lifetime also was the one that gave Tori Spelling all of her, like, TV movies. Mother May I Sleep with.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Danger. Yeah, yeah. I've been saying bust a lot. It reminds me of. I know you don't watch vice principals, but Walton Goggins, who. There's this great, like, moment. He plays a character named Lee Russell, and he's like, watching his neighbor. He, like, called the cops on his neighbor and he's like, Busted, Yo. Busted by Lee Russell. And he makes, like, a little song that he's, like, singing to himself. Busted by Lee Russell. It gets in my head all the time. I said, busted enough. It, like, triggered the song in my head. They finally get in touch with.

[Ami]

Him, and finally he actually answered and told Michelle, I'm not. I've been tipped off. My initial thought was, who the fuck just completely sabotaged.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Everything? He's like, hey, I've been tipped off. I'm not coming. Why did you even answer the.

[Patrick Hines]

Phone? I know. Well, not only that this whole thing is ruined, but then Lucas, the producer, calls the guy. He's like, yes, we set you up. Yes, you were gonna be busted. We like, fine, we're not gonna do that. Can you call the person who tipped you off so we can hear his voice, so we can know who it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Is? Cause Lucas. Oh, someone sabotaged the show, the episode. Like, they. Who tipped you off? Because no one cares.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Like, it's gotta be someone from the.

[Patrick Hines]

Inside. But it's, like, tanking Lucas's show with Lifetime, you know? So the guy agrees to do.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. Happy to.

[Patrick Hines]

Help. I mean, would you. That is crazy to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me. I mean, I guess if, like. So I'm not gonna get in trouble.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Yeah, yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. I mean, that's what he's saying. I'm not a rat, so I probably wouldn't. But, like, I think he's probably, like, maybe Lucas was like, or, yeah, we could do this the easy way or the fucking hard.

[Patrick Hines]

Way. Sanitized version of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Luc. I'm sure he was like, okay, fine.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever. It's me on the other end. Fine. I did it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Jillian.

[Patrick Hines]

100%. I got hired by the PI Moms to be a fake PI for a.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Minute. Like.

[Patrick Hines]

What? I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. So Ronald. Not his real name, Rutherford, is actually Carl Marino.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Obviously. So he's the one who wanted the show called PI Moms to be all about him. Washed up actor.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously. But then Lucas wants Chris, the owner of the PI.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Business. Chris and associates, but no.

[Patrick Hines]

Associates. But no.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Associates. Chris no.

[Patrick Hines]

Associates. Chris, no.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Associates. With Ronald. Not his real name. Rutherford Patrick.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Sons Lumber and Co Fricking frack over here. I know, but he wants that Chris to fire Carl Marino. Chris won't do.

[Pete (Journalist)]

It. It's kind of surprising that Chris isn't, like, beating the fuck out of Carl. I mean, it was just. He was insane. The only explanation I could come up with is they were lovers. Why else wouldn't somebody fire this. This person who. Who was behaving so.

[Patrick Hines]

Badly. Lucas assumes they're lovers. That's my favorite part. Thank you for bringing a little bit of gay into.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This. Chris not only won't do it, he's not upset about.

[Patrick Hines]

It. He's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Not. Like, he's not bothered. Lucas today has his head in his hands about how upset this is. And Chris is like.

[Patrick Hines]

Whatever. Lucas is like, there. There can be no other explanation than that they are. They are.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Lovers. Either you fire.

[Patrick Hines]

Him. Yeah. Or you're.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Lovers. Or you're humping him. There's no middle ground. And so. So I'm like, what? So Lucas is convinced he can't sleep at night because he's like, they have to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Lovers. Yeah. There's must be.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Lovers. There's no other explanation for this. Like, not only did Chris not fire him, but he doesn't care. Like, why isn't he.

[Patrick Hines]

Mad? Carl Marino looks like he would be like, the laziest gay lover as well. He would just lay there and want you to do all the work.

[Jillian Benavalli]

And then be like, you're.

[Patrick Hines]

Welcome. And then be like, you're welcome. That's exactly how it would be. God. You know, a lot of gay people, guilty.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So. But the network sends Carl a cease and desist, which is they're basically saying, like, stop talking about the show or else. Stop ruining cases. Stop tipping people off. You're not part of this. Loser. Go away. No, you're a.

[Patrick Hines]

Loser. Chris, the producer, not the owner, is saying, the good news was the network shut down Karl Marino, but now they've got eyes on the show and they're like, why is this falling apart? This was supposed to be so.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Easy. Right. But something is up with Chris Butler, the owner, like, after this.

[Patrick Hines]

Happened.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. Totally disconnected. He's not really there as much. I'm like, I thought this was a good thing. He was a drip in ruining the show. Now everyone's like, well, it's very.

[Patrick Hines]

Weird. And it's also, like, make it make sense why he didn't want to fire Carl. Like, that would be the easiest firing decision in world.

[Jillian Benavalli]

History. So everything's weird. Vibes are off. They were never really on, if I'm being.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Honest.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Then Robert. Not his real name, Rutherford, who's actually Carl the.

[Patrick Hines]

Actor.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Emails Pete the journalist again as Ronald, not his real name.

[Patrick Hines]

Rutherford. Like, this is getting so. This is why I love the Train Wreck series. Yeah. It just gets more and more.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Ridiculous. He's like, hey, Pete the journalist, guess what? I have another scoop.

[Chris Butler]

For.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Chris Butler. He, like, created this PI Moms.

[Patrick Hines]

Idea.

[Chris Butler]

Yeah. The owner of the company, Butler, is selling large amounts of marijuana along with other drugs, prescription Xanax and steroids that has been confiscated by the Contra Costa county task force. You see, the commander of the task force is taking the drugs from raids and giving them to Chris to move, and then he gets them to, well.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Me. He's selling a ton of.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Drugs.

[Patrick Hines]

Pills. He's making me sell.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Drugs. Steroids. All of this stuff has been confiscated by this county task force. And in the email. The email is so poorly written. He's even like, you.

[Patrick Hines]

See?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. I hate if I'm reading a book and I see in a piece of dialogue or really anywhere the words you see, comma, oh, it feels so fake to.

[Patrick Hines]

Me. My friend Allison in high school had a thing where if you say her name in a sentence, like, if you're like, hi, Allison. Yeah, yeah. Like, that would really freak her out. Like, the whole. The whole thing is that, like, you're not supposed to. Like, saying her name makes it feel very formal and like she's in.

[Ami]

Trouble.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? Allison, how are you today? Let's talk more about.

[Patrick Hines]

That. Yeah, she listens. She's a.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Listener. Did, like, your parents use your name only when they were yelling at you and getting you in.

[Patrick Hines]

Trouble? I don't think so. She had pretty good parents. I don't know, but she was the one that was, like, whenever somebody says it just makes you go like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

That. Like, wait, does that make me real? I know my name. You said my name to me, and I answered to my name like I'm being.

[Patrick Hines]

Perceived. I don't like Power.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Play. I don't like.

[Patrick Hines]

It. But the other thing we learn about in this email, took Pete the reporter, the chain of command here, is that Chris, the owner of the business, is working with a dirty cop. The dirty cop is getting these drugs from drug raids, selling them to Chris, the owner of the PI Company. And Chris is then trying to make Carl the bad guy, who's, like, trying to ruin the whole PI mom thing, sell the drugs on the street. And Carl is like, I don't want to do it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. So, like hell, Pete, he believed me last time. Pete the reporter, you're my only hope. And Pete the journalist is once again all in. Hasn't read an email. He's not in Hook Linen.

[Patrick Hines]

Singer. But I think that he thinks that there's no choice. I think that he thinks that, like, if he doesn't do this, somebody's going to murder.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Him.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Okay. You know what I.

[Patrick Hines]

Mean? So he's saying, he goes, this.

[Chris Butler]

Was just mind blowing, mind melting information. You know, this all started with me being invited to write a fluffy lifestyle piece about a reality. Now I'm being brought into this what sounds like very dangerous conspiracy involving stolen drugs and dirty cops who are putting them back out on the street after they've already been.

[Patrick Hines]

Confiscated. Now there's dirty cops and stolen.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Drugs. Pete, it was never a fluff piece to you. I know you were in the. On the ride along and believed it.

[Patrick Hines]

All. I know he was all in, but. So Pete is saying, I can't go to Lucas with this. I gotta go back to Carl and be like, carl, you need to go to the fucking police. Like, this is.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Insane. Enter Daryl Jackson, lieutenant of inspectors. Oh, my God, this DA's office or whatever Pete the journalist calls them. And he's like, you have to talk to Carl.

[Patrick Hines]

Marino.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Like, I'm too hot.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Man.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Beat the journalists. You're a little too involved here, you know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? I thought journalists are supposed to sort of have a little bit of an arm's length situation Again, everyone is showing their hand way too.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Much.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. No one has a.

[Patrick Hines]

Secret.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. No one is being subtle. No one is asking a question. No one is using.

[Patrick Hines]

Logic. There's absolutely no need for a pie. All the cards on the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Table.

[Patrick Hines]

That. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? Is.

[Patrick Hines]

It?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. We don't need him. Everyone's like, I'm coming, I'm coming here. Here's the worst fake name.

[Patrick Hines]

Ever. Exactly. What was the name.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Again? Ronald's not his real name.

[Patrick Hines]

Rutherford. Ronald's not his real.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Name. So they sit down and Carl the actor tells Daryl and he's like, he tells him everything. Chris Butler, police Corruption, a reality TV series.

[Patrick Hines]

Dr. Mom's Marijuana, methamphetamine, crystal.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Meth. Daryl is like, I'm sorry, wait a.

[Patrick Hines]

Second.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. He goes, I don't understand anything you're saying to me. He's completely.

[Patrick Hines]

Overwhel. Carl told me Chris had given.

[Chris Butler]

Him the weed to sell and he couldn't get out.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Of. Was obvious that it was something.

[Chris Butler]

To the story that he was telling me because I do have the marijuana in front of me. At that point, I knew I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Had a job to do. Carl plops down a pound of weed on the table. This guy comes with his own.

[Patrick Hines]

Props. A pound of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Weed. Also, you're an idiot for bringing that. Look, I think legalize it, whatever, but like, you're an idiot in 2010 to walk in and be like, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Got a pound of.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Weed. So Carl, Daryl's like, look, Chris Butler gave me this weed to sell. I don't know what to do. I want to get out of this situation and I can't. And Daryl's like, okay, well, you're a nightmare and incredibly hard to follow, but I do see a pound of weed in front of.

[Patrick Hines]

Me.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly. I'm going to follow that. Like, let's. Something's going on. I know that.

[Patrick Hines]

Much, girl. Helix is back. Look, it's that mattress that you and I both have had for years and we love it. We can't sleep.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Without. Exactly. And also, this is a big time of the year where people are hosting. You're welcoming people into your.

[Patrick Hines]

Home.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. So you don't want to be. You don't want to be the place where like, oh, I got a really bad sleep at what's her name's.

[Patrick Hines]

House. Exactly. And the whole thing about Helix, why we love it is because it's customized just to you. So you take the Helix sleep quiz. It matches you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs. And it makes buying a mattress super easy. And the sleep quiz takes like less than two minutes to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Do. Yeah, I was matched with the midnight locks. I've never looked.

[Patrick Hines]

Back. Never looked back. And it might have something to do with the fact that Helix is the most awarded mattress brand tested and reviewed by experts like Forbes and.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Wired. Yeah. And on top of that, they have free shipping their seamless.

[Patrick Hines]

Delivery.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US could not be.

[Patrick Hines]

Easier. No, you get that 120 night sleep trial. Please. And the limited lifetime.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Warranty. Yeah, I've had my Helix mattress for like over five years. Seven, eight, nine years. A long.

[Patrick Hines]

Time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally. I lost track of time. That's how good it is.

[Patrick Hines]

Fam. You know you're in the market for a new mattress, you know you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Are. Yeah. For you or for others. You.

[Patrick Hines]

Know. Exactly. So, my loves, if you want to get in on the Helix, go to helix sleep. For 27 off site.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Wide. That's helixsleep.com TCO for 27% off site.

[Patrick Hines]

Wide. And that's exclusive for listeners of true crime Obsessed.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Fam. Yeah, make sure you enter our show name into the post purchase survey.

[Patrick Hines]

So they know we sent you helixsleep.com tco.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Wow. See how rested you.

[Patrick Hines]

Are.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously. So now we meet special Agent Robert and he wants us to know he doesn't really care for reality tv. He's born to true.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Crime. Sometimes they intersect. I Know they are one in the.

[Patrick Hines]

Same. You're also with your people, girl. Welcome to the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Table. Like, come.

[Patrick Hines]

On. I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. So Carl is. Now we're at 100, is going to wear a wire to take down Chris Butler, the PI mom's guy, and this unnamed corrupt.

[Patrick Hines]

Cop. Wearing a wire. Oh, my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

God. This takes two seconds. Carl is wired up. He's talking to Chris Butler. Special Agent Roberts listening in the car. In two seconds flat, they get everything they need about the drugs. They that's. That's done. We got to move on to the most important.

[Patrick Hines]

Part. They start talking about the reality show. And I just want to say, like Chris is saying to Carl, you gotta let this go with the network. He does the network ready to pull the car. I'm gonna lose that show. And then I'm not a part of my business. And I have nothing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Left. I don't have a.

[Patrick Hines]

Career. I don't have nothing. Star good.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Looks. I look like this. He goes, if I close my business, I'll have nothing left left. This is what I look like is what he.

[Patrick Hines]

Said. I just spit all over me. I'm so.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Sorry. I look like.

[Patrick Hines]

This. This is what. This is what I look. This is what I look.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Like. And Chris keeps going. He' was in your position. I would have done the same exact thing. Let me tell you. Maybe I would have thought it out a little bit better. But, like, he's like, I get it. We want this PI mom show to be about us, the.

[Patrick Hines]

Men.

[Chris Butler]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Exactly. We called it PI Moms because we wanted it to be about the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Men. If we're not the main character, we don't want.

[Patrick Hines]

It. We don't fucking want.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. So. But now the cops are sniffing around the production because they're like, wait a second. This idiot's wearing a.

[Patrick Hines]

Wire. I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. Talking all this stuff because it's.

[Patrick Hines]

Like two things are happening at once. Like, the show is going on. Carl's trying to bring the show down, but at the same time, Chris, the owner, is getting pounds of marijuana and methamphetamine from a dirt dirty cop for Carl to sell on the street. Like.

[Jillian Benavalli]

What? And also the show's going under. The network's like, this is not worth.

[Patrick Hines]

It.

[Jillian Benavalli]

No. And everyone's kind of a drip. And, like, the show's not as good as anyone thinks it is. Like, the network people are like, this is.

[Patrick Hines]

Failing. This sucks.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. However, there's one case that might save the.

[Patrick Hines]

Show. I do not understand what happens.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Here. I will help.

[Patrick Hines]

You. It's not that I Don't like technically understand it. We learn about a case of a missing 15 year old girl, we don't get her name. I don't know why we don't get her name. Also in that whole last section about the dirty cop. Never get the dirty cops name. I know, like why? I know I don't get.

[Jillian Benavalli]

It. I don't get it.

[Patrick Hines]

Either. So. But like this is a real case and the network has literally said to Lucas, you get one more shot at this. If anything else goes wrong, the show is canceled. So for Lucas, like solving this disappearance of this 15 year old girl is the last shot to make the show.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Happen. So her parents wake up one morning, she's gone. No warning signs, nothing. But she did take things. She took her laptop, top 20 bucks, clothes, a backpack. And so she's classified as a.

[Patrick Hines]

Runaway.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So production spent a lot of money trying to find this girl. I'm like, you guys also care that she's missing.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Like, like they're saying we've got helicopters up in the.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Air. Like it's not about saving the show, it's about saving.

[Chris Butler]

Her.

[Patrick Hines]

Right? Right. Like, and is she really missing or is she a runaway? Why don't we have her name? It's very.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Crazy. Well, what's really weird is that guess who finds.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Her. The next thing I know, I got a call. Call and they say, you're not gonna fucking believe this. Carl has found the missing girl. Once again, he's fucking things.

[Patrick Hines]

Up. We were.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Angry. One of my producers, I thought I had to go give her a sedative because she wanted to murder.

[Patrick Hines]

Him. This production company, all they care about is Carl not returning the missing girl.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Home. No. No one says a word. Heard.

[Patrick Hines]

About. All they care about is Carl turning the missing girl over to the PI mom, they can be the. They are apoplectic. So they can be the ones to call the police and end this thing so the show can get their.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Story. Someone says, I thought I had to give my producer sedative. She wanted to kill him. And I'm like, right, but we're all happy that the girl was found safe. Nobody says.

[Patrick Hines]

That. They also tell us that Carl knew where she was, but waited to call the police until it was advantageous for him.

[Jillian Benavalli]

What? Yeah, I know, it's.

[Patrick Hines]

Crazy. It's.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Unbelievable. So what we're told is that Chris Butler, the owner of the company, assigned Carl to this case first. Yes, before he gave it to the PI so his whole plan is that Carl will find the girl, get the camera, time the parents Will hug him. He'll be the hero, and then he'll be the star of the show that the network who wants him.

[Patrick Hines]

Dead.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Will give.

[Patrick Hines]

Him.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. In his crazy mind, what is wrong with him? Everyone runs to the scene to fight with Carl, not worry about the.

[Patrick Hines]

Girl. And the girl's not even there. I'm like, was she ever returned.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Home? But I still aren't. I'm not 100% sure. Like, was this staged by.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Carl?

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. Cheating boyfriend was. Or fiance was staged. Like, I don't put anything past this.

[Patrick Hines]

Guy. Right. Or either of these guys seems like he's involved. And so the network calls Lucas, and they're like, not quite. They're like, if anything else goes wrong, we're pulling the plugs. And then my next one is, oh, my God, I forgot Chris was selling drugs. We're back to.

[Jillian Benavalli]

This. Meanwhile, Chris Butler is trying to sell a bunch of crystal meth, and that needs to be handled, too. And also, what about the unnamed corrupt cop who was stealing from evidence and selling drugs on the.

[Patrick Hines]

Street? Three pounds of crystal meth. Three pounds of it. And the cops are now saying, like, the cops that have been wiring up Carl are like, this is it. We gotta bring this down.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Now. And I'm like, hey, network get cameras on.

[Patrick Hines]

This. Exactly. So they wire Carl again. They give him $10,000 in cash. He goes to the firm to meet.

[Chris Butler]

Chris. That moment when Chris took the money from Carl and was counting it.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Out. One pound, one.

[Chris Butler]

Out. And the methamphetamine was essentially given to.

[Patrick Hines]

Carl. All right, let me get rid of as quick as I.

[Chris Butler]

Can. Once that happens, it's game.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Over. We got.

[Patrick Hines]

You. The second he gives Chris the money and Chris takes it, they're like. They blow in and they arrest.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Everybody. So he makes the purchase. So Chris Butler, who's conducting this crystal meth business at his own PI firm that has been taken over by a fudgeing production.

[Patrick Hines]

Crew.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Stay stupid and stay. These men are.

[Patrick Hines]

Idiots. It's like, why did he have to do both of the same? Why couldn't the show be.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Enough? Because it's never.

[Patrick Hines]

Enough. You know what I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Mean? It was never about the show. I guess he doesn't give a.

[Patrick Hines]

Shit. Oh, my God. It would have been such a good show. I.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Know. So Chris Butler is arrested immediately. Obviously, he's on camera counting the money and handing over the math, like.

[Patrick Hines]

Game. He's got one of those, like, money counter machines. It's unbelievable.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So to avoid seven felony charges and a possible life sentence, he takes A plea.

[Patrick Hines]

Deal.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. I found so much stuff. Maybe I'll do an after party. I found everything about this corrupt.

[Patrick Hines]

Cop. Oh, that's great. Let's do an after.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Party. I'll do that. And there's more to it. It's like a whole thing. But this ends the show.

[Patrick Hines]

Obviously.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Like it wasn't worth it.

[Patrick Hines]

Anymore. No. And like all of the women are here to just say that, like we really, by the way, remember us over here, the ones not selling drugs or selling everybody out. Like we really believed in not selling.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Drugs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You know, and so like they really believe in the mission. Avi especially was like when our.

[Ami]

Show was canceled, that opportunity that I had and me sharing my story was taken away. I opened up and I shared so much for the first time. And who knows who I could have touched if my story got out. And I shared all of this with the world. He doesn't realize what he took personally from.

[Patrick Hines]

Me. She'd been talked into it and then it got taken away from.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Her. Sure. Like that show could be interesting and empowering, but the show I heard they were making was like fluff and.

[Patrick Hines]

Fake. Yeah. The show that we, that you heard was like they're going to follow around like cheating men and like catch.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Them in the act that like may or may not be.

[Patrick Hines]

State. Uh.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Huh. The idea everyone told us about is fudgeing. Great. Well, and I know, I mean was very, very honest about her. I'm not taking any of.

[Patrick Hines]

That. Of course. I mean the truth of the matter is nobody's calling a PI to see if their spouse is cheating. Like they're just going through their.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Phone. I wanted to love.

[Patrick Hines]

It.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. And I was just kind of like, oh, I know, but maybe they just weren't given. I mean this is a 42 minute episode. Like I, I'm sure a lot was.

[Patrick Hines]

Left. It was short. I just loved it. I just like, it just. Everything was crazy. It got little gay for a second. That's always my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Favorite. Well, wait, we're not done yet though. So on May 4, 2012, Chris Butler pleads guilty to selling drugs, extortion, robbery, and planting illegal wiretaps. We don't get into that at.

[Patrick Hines]

All. That is so.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Weird. He gets eight years in prison. Now Carl leverages this into a little bit of camera.

[Patrick Hines]

Time.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yes. Doing TV interviews. Now he's the hero because now he gets to lie and say that his whole goal in life is to help.

[Patrick Hines]

People. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But the thing about the. So he becomes the hero of the story and the PI moms are the ones that are like attacked and made fun of and embarrassed and called like frauds and drug.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Dealers.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. The whole story got twisted because.

[Jillian Benavalli]

They'Re the closest women around. So.

[Patrick Hines]

Like. And because the show was called PI mom, so it was like, oh, wait, wasn't there was like drug dealing. And that must have been the women who did that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right? Now, right after this, Carl gets the gig of a lifetime playing young Joe Kenda for 137 episodes of Homicide.

[Patrick Hines]

Hunter. I don't know anything about what any of that.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Is. Joe Kenda is like a super famous cop. He's like, he's sort of like Keith Morrison deadpan. His whole thing is like, my.

[Patrick Hines]

My, my, oh my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

God. People in the true crime world fudgeing love Joe.

[Patrick Hines]

Ke. What network was it.

[Jillian Benavalli]

On? It was on ID, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Think.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Okay. And now it's just on all the apps. But like, he allegedly solved. He has like a 92% closure rate. So all of the episodes of Homicide Hunter are cases he solved, but.

[Patrick Hines]

It'S a scripted TV.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Show. Yeah, it's like, so this Carl is playing young Joe Kenda. So Joe Kenda is being very like, my, my, my, like this is what I did. And then when he's like reminiscing about how he solved the case, like that Carl guy is playing him in the.

[Patrick Hines]

Reenactment. Now is it like an ID like reenactment where it's like, it's like non union actors or is it like a fancy.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Gig? I don't think it's very fancy. I have like 12 seasons. It's 137.

[Patrick Hines]

Episodes. Oh my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

God. Because people love Joe Kenda. It got me a little inspired. He has a few full length documentaries. We're gonna do the man with no Face because It's like a 90 minute, like.

[Patrick Hines]

Full.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. So we'll like, you'll get to know Joe Kenda a little.

[Patrick Hines]

Bit. Oh.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Amazing. I don't know him all that well, but I know that he has kind of a badass wife. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, very Keith. My, my, my. Like, very deadpan. He claims he doesn't use a script. He just like tells the stories from memory. I know, I know, I know. But he's very like, you might love him, you might hate him, you might think he's a vibe right now, but we'll be into it. But we have never done a jokenda.

[Patrick Hines]

Thing. No, I've never even heard of this.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Guy. Or maybe we can do like, I mean, homicide Hunter. Some of those episodes are from, like 2010, like, around here, which is like, too old, I.

[Patrick Hines]

Think.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Maybe. But we'll get jokenda on the calendar.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone. All right.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Great. But Lucas, the reality TV showrunner, really ends this with a.

[Patrick Hines]

Bang.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Yeah. Because he's like, look, having made a lot of reality tv, there is a certain type of person who has some kind of emotional hole in the center of their psyche. And they really feel that, like, the adulation of fans is going to fill that hole. And I think that maybe that's what happened with.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Carl. And I think that's what's happening with Carl. And I'm like, hell yeah. That's exactly. Because Ami says it perfectly. He ruined us so that he can become the center of.

[Patrick Hines]

Attention.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Which is exactly what he.

[Patrick Hines]

Wanted. And she thinks she's getting the bait and switch because she's in one of her interviews and it like, they're like, we're gonna take a break. And she's like, do not bring Carla in here. I will slap that motherfucker.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Yeah. Cause they're like, oh, can you hold? Cause she's seen, she watches, she's a documentary fan, so. And that's also a very reality TV.

[Patrick Hines]

Thing.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally. Like. And here she.

[Patrick Hines]

Comes. Yeah.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Totally. Anyway, thanks for ruining everything, men. Thanks. A.

[Patrick Hines]

Typical. Girl. We did train wreck. PI.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Moms. PI.

[Patrick Hines]

Moms. Yeah. Oh, my God. So good. Is there anything you want to tell.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Them? Yeah. So there's a lot that this left out or I just went down a rabbit hole, as I do.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes. If you're watching the video version, I went down a rabbit hole and changed my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Thoughts. Yeah. So all of the, like, deep dive stuff I did, I'll just do it an after.

[Patrick Hines]

Party. That is a good.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Idea. We're gonna do an after party that is available now or this week or.

[Patrick Hines]

Now. We'll make it available. Like, so when this episode comes out, there will also be an after party available the same exact second where Jillian is doing her deep dive into all this shit. Give us a.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Preview. So it's like all of the stuff with the corrupt cop that we never get back to, like what he did, the missing 14 year old girl, that whole story about, like, where she was and whatever, the jokenda stuff, how joke fucking hates Carl Marino and like also how insane Karl Marino is. I'm sorry. Like, there's just a lot of crazy. He's like, not a good.

[Patrick Hines]

Guy. Oh, my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

God. So there's like a lot of different avenues to go down. I went down the mall. I'll tell you all about.

[Patrick Hines]

It. Oh, my God. You're a rock star. Okay, so, fam. So that is available right now. You can go over to the Patreon. If you're on the after party tier, you'll get it right away. You can upgrade to the after party tier if you want. Jillian's doing the whole. The whole.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Thing. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. It's going to be a wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Ride. Oh, my God, I'm so excited. Also, fam, go check us out on the YouTube. We've got over 155,000 subscribers to our YouTube channel. It's a true crime obsess podcast on the YouTube. We've got a discord if you want to come in, hang out with us. That.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Way. Yeah, super.

[Patrick Hines]

Fun. What are we doing next.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Girl? Oh, my God. So this is on Hulu. It's called Vanished in Paradise, the Untold Story. Have you seen this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yet? Oh.

[Jillian Benavalli]

No. It's about the disappearance of Hannah up with a major, major, major plot.

[Patrick Hines]

Twist. Oh, my.

[Jillian Benavalli]

God. I can't say anything.

[Patrick Hines]

Else. Okay. Oh, my God. All.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Right. It's on.

[Patrick Hines]

Hulu. All right. Thank you for the trailer for that, my loves. And we'll see you.

[Jillian Benavalli]

Later. Okay, Love.

[Ami]

You.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye. Bye. Newspapers call her Jason Bourne. My daughter had been pulled out of the water in New York car.

[Jillian Benavalli]

World. She didn't know who she was. This is the stuff of movies. All three times Hannah disappeared, it was just as the school year started. Someone could go offline from their own personality. Sometimes it can be. For years, everybody assumed that I was aware of her past disappearances and I.

[Patrick Hines]

Wasn'T. Vanished in paradise, the Untold.

[Pete (Journalist)]

Story. Thursday at 9 on an.