474: Vanished in Paradise: The Untold Story

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed: Episode 474

"Vanished in Paradise: The Untold Story" (December 9, 2025)

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Episode Overview

This episode of True Crime Obsessed recaps the Hulu/Amazon Prime documentary, Vanished in Paradise: The Untold Story, which examines the mysterious disappearance of Hannah Up, a beloved teacher who vanished from the island of St. Thomas just before a major hurricane in 2017. The hosts, Patrick Hines and Gillian Pensavalle, bring their signature mix of humor, warmth, and curiosity—delving into Hannah’s history of dissociative fugue states, the baffling circumstances surrounding her disappearance, and the ongoing search for answers amidst natural disaster and unanswered questions.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

Introducing Hannah Up and Setting the Stage

• Patrick & Gillian introduce the case and Hannah:

  • Hannah is described as outgoing, energetic, and popular within the tight-knit St. Thomas community.
  • She had taught at various Montessori schools in NYC, Maryland, and St. Thomas.
  • Notable quote:

    "She seems like a really interesting, very special person, but, like, there’s something about her that's a little bit hard to...put a finger on." — Host 1/Patrick (08:20)

• Background on St. Thomas:

  • The island is small (13 miles long, 3 miles wide), with a community made up of locals and many mainland U.S. transplants.
  • The hosts discuss the logistics and quirks of island living, including driving and the sense of being a haven for "non-typical" folks.

The Timeline of Hannah's Disappearance

• Pre-Hurricane Trauma (12:08–15:38)

  • Hannah chooses to stay on the island as two major hurricanes (Irma and Maria) threaten, while many—including her boyfriend Joey—evacuate.
  • Patrick reflects on the trauma and unpredictability of natural disasters:

    "It makes me so anxious...It is so, those kinds of natural disasters, really, I find incredibly upsetting." — Host 2/Gillian (11:26)

• Day of Disappearance (19:08–22:22)

  • September 14, 2017: Hannah’s roommate sees her leave at 8am; she is not seen again.
  • Her car is found at Sapphire Beach with her personal belongings—passport, cash, IDs—left behind.
  • Clothes are folded carefully on a barstool in what used to be a beachfront bar.

Critical Theories & Patterns

• Discussion of circumstantial evidence:
  • The hosts highlight that the disappearance occurred after Irma but before Maria, leading to only a tiny window for searching (22:57).
  • Noted: Hannah was an exceptional swimmer; ocean conditions post-hurricane were still perilous.
  • Reflections on her intentions:

    "It looked like she was going to leave. Like she had all of her stuff." — Host 1/Patrick (24:15)

  • The possibility of a voluntary disappearance or tragic accident is weighed, with both hosts leaning toward a tragic outcome due to the chaos and conditions (53:42).

Revelation: Hannah's Previous Disappearances

Game-Changing Discovery (26:35–41:58)

• Hannah disappeared twice before (2008 and 2013):

  • Both earlier episodes involved vanishing around the start of the school year and were linked to water (Harlem/NYC—found face-down in the harbor; Maryland—found at a creek).
  • In her 2008 fugue, security cameras captured her living her life, evading searchers, but with no conscious memory of her actions.
  • The pattern:

    "All three times this has happened...almost to the date, whatever the first day of school is, is when this is happening." — Host 2/Gillian (48:08)

• Hannah's Account from Earlier Fugue State:

  • Quote from 2008 interview (40:23–40:31):

    "It goes from like going for a run to being in the ambulance. For me that was like 10 minutes, but it was like three weeks."

The Psychology: Dissociative Fugue States

Scientific/Expert Analysis (45:36–47:28)

• Dr. Spiegel (Stanford) explains fugue states:

  • Extremely rare, possibly trauma-triggered episodes where a person “goes offline” from their own identity and may act with habitual, muscle-memory behaviors.
  • Details on how people in fugue can operate semi-normally but later have no recollection.

• Discussion of possible triggers:

  • No clear history of trauma for Hannah; hypnosis did not reveal obvious sources.
  • The start of the school year appears as a repeated stressor.

• Limits of medical understanding:

  • Duration of fugue can range from days to years; recovery is unpredictable.

    "Sometimes it's just a day or two...sometimes it can be for years." — Dr. Spiegel (48:52)

• Host skepticism:

  • The hosts challenge the limitations and contradictions in current psychological explanations, maintaining empathy while probing for answers.

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Speculation, Sightings & Theories

Aftermath and Search Efforts (50:33–54:17)

• St. Thomas police and Hannah's mother investigate dozens of possible sightings on the island and neighboring territories, including Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic.
• The idea circulates that Hannah could have left without documentation due to post-storm travel chaos.
• Notable, compassionate moment during a mistaken identity search:

  "I wish I were her for you." — Unidentified woman, to Hannah's mother (52:28)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hannah's unique energy:

  "Hannah was extra of everything." — Friend Maggie (08:18)

• On the emotional toll of the search:

  "Barbara, her mother, and her friends obviously are holding on to hope because these experts are saying...she can snap out of it at any time." — Host 2/Gillian (53:06)

• Host skepticism in summary:

  "I want to believe her. It’s just…maybe it’s that we just don’t know enough about this." — Host 1/Patrick (47:37)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Background & Setting: 06:40–08:20
• Hannah's Disappearance Timeline: 12:08–22:36
• Discovery at the Beach & Immediate Search: 19:52–25:32
• Revelation of Past Disappearances: 26:35–41:58
• Hannah's Own Words (2008): 40:17–40:48
• Psychological Explanation/Expert Interview: 45:36–47:55
• Patterns, Host Reflections: 48:01–50:02
• Search Efforts, Final Theories: 50:48–54:17

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Tone and Style

The hosts balance frank skepticism with respect for Hannah and her loved ones. They mix humor (even riffing on Apple Store culture and "geniuses" at 32:06–33:27) with authentic curiosity, regularly pausing to examine their emotional reactions and addressing the complexities of trauma, mental health, and the limits of both science and community understanding.

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Conclusion & Final Thoughts

Patrick and Gillian wrap up reflecting on the limits of what can be known. While some listeners might still hold out hope given the unexplained elements and past recoveries, the hosts agree that the most probable outcome—based on the conditions and evidence—is tragedy at sea.

• Quote:

  "I looked it up today. I looked to see if there’s any updates. There isn’t anything. There’s just a lot of theories." — Host 1/Patrick (54:11)

They express compassion for Hannah’s mother and friends, who remain in limbo, and encourage listeners to learn more and stay safe.

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End of Summary
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Transcript

[Host 1]

I'm going to St. Thomas. It's our once a year vacation right after Christmas. I'm going to find her. Wow.

[Host 2]

That's crazy. I didn't know that. Wow.

[Host 1]

I know. I'm going.

[Host 2]

We're back.

[Host 1]

I will.

Hi, Julia Mandela.

[Host 2]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Host 1]

Fam. Join the Facebook group. It's the true crime obsessed podcast discussion group on Facebook. There's like 60,000 people in it.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And that is what it is. And it's what it's called.

[Host 1]

And that's what it's called. It's where you go to make new friends, where you go to talk about the episodes. It's where you go to, I don't know, like, hang, hang. Being a highly moderated, super fun, very safe place to, like, be cool on the Internet. What's the other thing?

[Host 2]

Patreon.

[Host 1]

Oh, my God, we've got a Patreon. Over 500 full bonus episodes ad free right now. What are we doing? We're doing the Devil in the deserting.

[Host 2]

Samantha.

[Host 1]

Stalking Samantha.

[Host 2]

Just a devil in the desert. We're doing the Ellen Greenberg thing. We're doing Trophy Wife. We're doing the Philly Mafia. I mean, it's. We're all over the place.

[Host 1]

It's everything that has multiple episodes on like Netflix, Hulu, Max, all that stuff. So we go episode by episode. It is wild, it's fun, it's amazing.

[Host 2]

And it's also ad free versions of these episodes.

[Host 1]

Yes, correct.

[Host 2]

And we'll do drag bingo. And we have that calendar that we do at the end of the year, depending on the tier you're on. So we got a lot going on.

[Host 1]

If you're a hero. Belle, we just saw all of the sketches for them annual calendar. They're so good.

[Host 2]

I love it.

[Host 1]

All right, girl. What are we talking about today?

[Host 2]

All right, this is on Hulu and I think Amazon Prime. It's called Vanished in the Untold Story. Newspapers call it Jason Bourne syndrome.

[Interviewee 1]

My daughter had been pulled out of the water in New York car world.

[Host 2]

She didn't know who she.

[Narrator/Reporter]

This is the stuff of movies.

All three times Hannah disappeared, it was just as the school year started.

[Interviewee 2]

Someone could go offline from their own personality.

[Expert/Doctor]

Sometimes it can be.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

For years, everybody assumed that I was aware of her past disappearances and I wasn't.

[Host 1]

Elizabeth Vargas is our host. I love her.

[Host 2]

Yeah. We are in St. Thomas, which you will be soon.

[Host 1]

Yeah. America's paradise is called.

[Host 2]

Yeah, lots of tourists.

[Host 1]

I'm gonna go Snuba diving.

[Host 2]

I've done that.

[Host 1]

Yeah, so that's the thing they give you a line to the surface scuba.

[Host 2]

But you don't have to be certified. And I think the air tanks rest on the water. I did it with my dad a million years ago.

[Host 1]

We'll see.

[Host 2]

I have scuba and snorkel. That's why it's called snuba. It's like have. You have to be like fully certified.

[Host 1]

You know that I have like that deep water thing.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I don't know why you're doing I.

[Host 1]

Well, I signed up for it, but I'm not necessarily doing it well. I just didn't want to not be able to do it on the day if I felt like it.

[Host 2]

But I probably you're not going to do it. But what's crazy is that the guy. I think I've told the story, but the guy was like Captain Ron who went down there with us, like a total like oh my God Florida guy who, you know, like Norbert Leo Butts in bloodline.

[Host 1]

Oh yeah. I'm really struggling getting this shirt off.

[Host 2]

Yeah, you are. But I freaked out. I was like, I was young but I freaked out because it was the weirdest feeling in the world to be able to breathe underwater.

[Host 1]

I don't think I'm gonna like it.

[Host 2]

And I was like, I don't like this. And he calmed me down totally underwater and he like showed me. It was like we did like a breathing exercise. But the feeling of like, oh, I can breathe down here was insane. And I didn't like it. And then it was awesome.

[Host 1]

This is not making it better for me. I don't know.

[Host 2]

I love get yourself Captain Ron. I don't remember his name, but he was great anyway. But we learned that there's also a lot of transplants from the mainland. I know someone who did that. My friend Carrie's friend Erin moved to the Virgin Islands and she's never been happier. She moved to St. Thomas.

[Host 1]

Why wouldn't everybody do this?

[Host 2]

Yeah, I knew her from when I was bartending at the karaoke bar and she was like a regular there and that's you know, with Carrie. And she one day was like, I'm going to do this thing and I'm going to go and it's going to be awesome. And bye and bye. And she's having a lovely time.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Well, we learned that close knit community has been shaken by a mystery involving one of their own. Hannah Up, a popular, outgoing 32 year old schoolteacher vanished into thin air one September morning.

[Host 2]

She's popular, she's fun, she's outgoing. Yeah, we Meet Joey.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Who?

[Host 2]

Joey Splino. He's Hannah's ex boyfriend in St. Thomas. Yeah.

[Host 1]

He abandons her real fast. The first opportunity.

[Host 2]

What do you mean?

[Host 1]

I just mean that, like, we're gonna learn there's a lot of weather coming and like, basically what goes wrong here is that Hannah decides to see stay and everybody else decides to leave. And I was just thinking like, Joey's like, bye. I'm like, I don't know. If it were my partner on the island, I don't know what I would do.

[Host 2]

I don't know. It's a devastating situation to be in, really. To be like, well, the smart thing is to leave.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

I get like, what do you do?

[Host 1]

I know.

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Host 1]

I know.

[Host 2]

So everyone knows Hannah on the island. It's super small. You can drive across St. Thomas in like 30 to 45 minutes.

[Host 1]

Do you know how you have to do that on the other side of the road? So we're getting a car while we're there and we've got to drive on the other. And they just let you do it. You don't have to take a test. They just like let you rent a car knowing you've got to drive like you're in England.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Host 1]

Isn't that wild? It is, yeah.

[Host 2]

But it's only like 30 minutes at the absolute most.

[Host 1]

Is that right?

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's really small. It's 13 miles across, so you can get to.

[Host 1]

All right, well, that makes one end.

[Host 2]

To the other, but in like 30, 40 minutes.

[Host 1]

Can we all just drive slowly? I guess is my only question.

[Host 2]

You're gonna have to ask them.

[Host 1]

I guess you're right.

[Host 2]

I have no. I have no say. You're right over this.

[Host 1]

You're right. Yeah. I wanted to say, one of the people that we meet says that you end up in this life of transplants on St. Thomas if you're not typical. Which I loved that, that she said that.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I was like, that's interesting. Like way of like this kind of. Not that they're like misfits because a lot of the people that we meet are like school teachers are working with like Montessori kids and all that. But like, I love this idea of like, you're just kind of like the rest of the world didn't work for you, so you ended up.

[Host 2]

Or you're just the type of person to be like, I'm going to do this and leave my life behind and.

[Host 1]

Go, once again, I might not come back.

[Host 2]

Yeah, exactly.

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Finally.

So Hannah moved to St. Thomas in 2014.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She really went native, as the saying goes. She got very involved in the community, very involved with her students at the Montessori school, and she made a wide circle of friends who spent a better part of a year searching for her.

[Host 2]

She worked at the Montessori school and was very involved. I went to a Montessori summer camp or summer program when I was like 6 years old. I freaking loved it.

[Host 1]

Doesn't it just be like there's no rules, like you can just kind of do whatever you want.

[Host 2]

In my memory of it, there were a lot of like hands on stations, like a lot of like water, like a cool thing in like a station. And it was like we did a lot as opposed to like sitting in a chair and getting like talked at.

[Host 1]

Oh yeah.

[Host 2]

It was like activity based. It was also the summer program so it super felt like camp. But I loved it.

[Host 1]

It's funny because, like when you think of Montessori, like, I remember when Daisy was going to kindergarten. Like, that was an option.

[Host 2]

A lot of, like, hands on stuff.

[Host 1]

Well, I just remember being explained to us. It's like they can sit at the desk or not. They can lay down on the carpet and kind of they can do the lesson or they can read their book. And I was like, I don't know.

[Host 2]

Oh, I had fun. I just remember, like, making things like doing cool, like water activity. But, like, it was like, here's like the bin with. That was like 6Y.

[Host 1]

And before anybody gets mad at me, I'm sure if your kids went to Montessori, I'm sure it was wonderful. I just, like, I was not a very good student, so I needed structure. So I don't know, I tried to pass it on to my kid. And then. And now here we are.

[Host 2]

Well, Michael Bourne is the head of the Montessori school, so he might have a word or two.

[Host 1]

And all of these people loved her.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And like Maggie, her best friend is here. It was exhausting.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

Like, being friend, she was just out straight for days, was either doing her work or all of her sports and social activities. And she was just. Yeah, it's exhausting. But Hannah was extra of everything.

[Host 1]

Hannah was extra.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And there's just something about Hannah. She seems like a really interesting, very special person, but, like, there's something about her that is a little bit hard to, like, put a finger on. And I think that bestie Maggie is sort of saying that in a way here.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Because we learn. Like, Maggie will also tell us that Hannah wasn't really open with her friends. Like, even Maggie, her best friend, is like, oh, there were significant things about her life that I only knew after she went missing because everyone was trying to, like, piece things together. So even her best friend Maggie didn't know. Yeah, Everything.

[Host 1]

And like, in fairness to Hannah, like, that's gonna kind of happen if you're one of those people who's, like, moving to the island from the main. Like, I get it. Like, they've made whole TV shows about this. You know what I mean? Like, everyone's got a little bit of a secret. I get it. But I think that, like, Hannah is person in a way that we don't really get to understand in 42 minutes. And how could we possibly. No slight to the documentary, but, like, I'm interested to know more about her and Maggie. Maggie is saying a lot when she's saying this thing about her here.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And it's interesting because on the other hand, Hannah loved Zumba. It's where she met Maggie.

[Host 1]

Actually, and Ganelle.

[Host 2]

But yeah. And so Ganelle says, because Hannah used to dance in the annual spring carnival parade every year. And so her friend and Zumba instructor is like, oh, she lived for this. And she's literally like, oh, I'll have what she's having. Like, I. Her vitamins. So she, like, her friend and Zumba instructor is describing it as, like a positive, energetic thing, I guess, in a Zumba class. Like, you really need that.

[Host 1]

Upon my second watching of this, I think that. And I don't mean to diagnose, I'm just saying what I'm seeing as a casual observer. I think that, like, Hannah would have manic episodes. Like, I think that there was a little bit of a manicness to her.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's what Maggie's saying, at least.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And like, even Ganelle, who's like, I'll have what she's having in a way.

[Host 2]

Of like, I want her vitamins.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Like. Like, she just seemed like she was. And I think that that maybe sort of explains some of the things that we learn about her later.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So her backstory is that she grew up in Oregon, who grew up the.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Daughter of two Methodist ministers in Oregon. A warm, compassionate child who went on to an elite college, Bryn Mawr, and became a popular teacher in New York City and Maryland before moving to St. Thomas.

[Host 2]

It's not like she quit her job or left her whole life behind. In that sense. She just is being a teacher. Just now she's in St. Thomas and.

[Host 1]

It was Montessori all the way through. Like, it was Montessori in Harlem. I'm assuming it was Montessori in Maryland. It's Montessori on St. Thomas. Like, she's into that. Into that style of teaching.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And then we meet Hannah's mother, Barbara, and we're with her a lot. She's like, driving in Hannah's car. She's searching for her. She's made it her whole life to find her kid.

[Host 1]

It was at this point of the documentary that I was like, hang on a second. What is the timeline here? So we're going to learn that Hannah goes missing in 2017 from St. Thomas and this documentary is made in 2019.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I was like, well, this documentary made yesterday and the mom's been there since 2017. So it's a two year timeline for the. When she goes missing to when the documentary is being made.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So September of 2017 is when she went missing, like you said, and it's when hu Irma hit St. Thomas.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

The Biggest storm to ever hit the Caribbean. Everyone was on edge. It's a deadly storm.

[Host 1]

I mean, it. Like, we see a lot of video of it, and it is absolutely terrifying.

[Host 2]

I can't, like, talk about it too much in detail. It makes me. It is so. Those kinds of natural disasters, really, I find incredibly upsetting.

[Sponsor Voice/Disclaimer]

I know.

[Host 2]

Not a hot take.

[Host 1]

No. I know I've probably said this on the podcast before, but, like, on the. I used to work at the W in midtown Manhattan, and I used to live way up in northern Manhattan, and I would take a taxi late at night home up the FDR Drive, which is the east side. And if you don't know the geography of Manhattan on the east side of the island, that highway is very, very, very close to the river. And when it would have, like, big rainstorms, a lot of times the river would just, like, flood that. And that was absolutely terrible. Like, we live on a. We forget this, but we live on an island. We are at or below sea level.

[Host 2]

Infrastructure isn't really built well either.

[Host 1]

So it does not take a lot for us for our little island to flood. And, like, there are parts of Manhattan where, like, you get a bad snowstorm and you see, like, video of the subways, literally, like waterfalls, or you get.

[Host 2]

Rains a little bit, and, like, the entire subway is just. It's really. It's not. I mean, we. We gotta do better.

[Host 1]

It is terrifying, though. You know what I mean? Like.

[Host 2]

Like, just, like. I don't know. I have. I have thoughts on the infrastructure of my. My lovely Hometown.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

So. September 4, 2017. Ten days before Hannah goes missing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

At the time, everyone was on edge. Hurricane Irma, the biggest storm ever to hit the Caribbean, had begun its deadly course through the Atlantic just as the school year had begun.

[Host 1]

Winds now 180 per hour.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

Everyone on the entire island was preparing for this hurricane.

[Host 2]

The entire island is prepping for the hurricane. And just again, to be clear, it's tiny. It's 13 miles long, 3 miles wide. You can drive from one end to the other in like, 30, 40 minutes.

[Host 1]

So winds are 185 miles an hour. And we. We're seeing the palm trees literally like, that are going from vertical to horizontal.

[Host 2]

It makes me so anxious.

[Host 1]

It's crazy.

[Host 2]

So September 7, seven days before she goes missing, the hurricane pass. The island is all but destroyed.

[Host 1]

We get some home video of seeing Hannah, like, in her laundry room, of her building, like, texting with her mom during the storm. Yeah, we hear about, like, a. A window that gets blown out and they. She Describes the sound as like a freight train is going through. The building is shaking, the walls are bending. It is really, really scary.

[Host 2]

Yeah, it's very, very bad. No water, no power. So three days after the storm, Joey, Hannah's ex, checks in on Hannah and she's safe, but obviously she's distraught. Like, and, and he says it looked like she hadn't slept in a while. Like, I mean, and like we learned.

[Host 1]

That the island is not doing great.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

It was insane. It was like there were just telephone poles strewn about everywhere.

And there were roof panels everywhere.

[Host 2]

The destruction to St. Thomas is massive. Hurricane Irma leaving people without power, drinking water and growing increasingly desperate.

[Host 1]

There's no power, there's no drinking water, there's debris everywhere. The telephone poles are down, homes are destroyed. Like, it's not just like, it was a scary thing and now we've got to rebuild. Like, there's no drinking water.

[Host 2]

No, it's horrible.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So then Hannah and Joey drive to Joey's place together so that Hannah can call her mom. And it sounds like Joey's house is in better shape than Hannah's.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And so now, September 12, 2017, two days before Hannah goes missing, a second Category 5 hurricane is about to hit the island. And this is Hurricane Maria. Like, this is the famous, like, I mean, Irma and Maria, you know, and coming back to back. And I got to tell you, Mike and I went to Puerto Rico in the months after.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I remember this.

[Host 2]

And it's, it was really, it was devastating to see. And that's like after, like help had arrived. I say in air quotes. So I can't imagine, like, this shit makes me so anxious.

[Host 1]

It's really bad.

[Host 2]

But now that they know that a second Category 5 hurricane is about to hit the island, everyone's like, okay, we, we have to leave now.

[Host 1]

Well, not everyone.

[Host 2]

Not everyone. So like people are trying to get off the island and Joey, Hannah's boyfriend, is one of those people. And Hannah wants to stay put.

[Host 1]

And I don't understand this because we're going to lear of what, like what she goes through is like a trauma response to the severe weather that she just lived through, but she doesn't want to leave. And Joey, like makes the sort of like, heartbreaking decision. I'm like, okay, girl. Like, I'm. But I'm going though.

[Host 2]

He says that they hung out the night before and at six o' clock she gave me a hug and wish me the best. And he says her heart was in St. Thomas and her intentions were to stay there. Yeah, so she made it very clear.

[Host 1]

And it could be that, like, she felt so, like, strongly about the school, you know, like, I don't know. But so September 13th, that's one day before the disappearance. This is where Hannah goes to her classroom to sort of prep the classroom for the storm. Like, she wants to minimize whatever damage is going to happen to the school as best she can.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And Norma is the director of the school, and she tells us very plainly. I was a little concerned. The tone of her voice was very sing song. And she was just so compliant, which is not the normal Hannah. That's the last time that I saw Hannah.

[Interviewee 1]

Hannah.

[Host 2]

She uses the word. She says Hannah was being compliant.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Like, that word stood out to me too, because it's like, as though Hannah has made peace with whatever's gonna happen.

[Host 2]

She says that she was compliant, and then she says that was not the normal Hannah.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I mean, the normal Hannah is the one that's, like, you know, ripping it up when the Zumba class in the middle of the road during Carnival.

[Host 2]

But also, just to be fair, how normal is anyone gonna be when you just went through the worst hurricane to hit the Caribbean and then the second one is on the way and it's gonna be even worse. That damage like that would scare the shit. I feel so anxious thinking about it. Living. It must have been. I'm sure no one was, like, fully themselves, I bet.

[Host 1]

Totally. And, like, Norma's there. Like, not everybody was leaving. So maybe that tells us that the people who worked at the schools, like, really cared about the schools and felt like they had to stay.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I'm sure a lot of people left. If they had the means to go, they left. But obviously, like, Joey kind of made it seem that Hannah was the only person there, and it seems like that can't be true.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

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[Host 1]

And forgetting my husband is not grinding his teeth.

[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

I mean, you know what I mean.

So it's September 14, 2017. This is the day that Hannah disappears. And best friend Maggie is here to tell us what we know. So Maggie tells us Hannah's roommate saw her leaving the house around 8am that morning on September 14th. And nobody saw her after that.

[Host 2]

Like, nobody. So she left for her work or whatever at 8 in the morning, and then nobody saw her.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Remember that timeline?

[Host 2]

Like, so now it's September 15, 2017. It was a Friday. Yeah. We're gonna have a staff meeting and I guess to, like, prep for the incoming doom.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And Hannah is not there. And no one has seen her since yesterday at 8am and they go to.

[Host 1]

Her house, her car's not there. So whenever she Left yesterday at 8am, she took the car. Now this is where we get like, a major revelation.

[Narrator/Reporter]

They say when Maggie called Hannah's friends back home, she was given a mist. Mysterious instruction. Look by water.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

I called one of our co workers and I said, can you go and check the beaches for Hannah? And she went to Sapphire beach first because that's Hannah's favorite beach. And Hannah's car was in the parking lot.

[Sponsor Voice/Disclaimer]

Of the beach.

[Host 2]

Look by the water. And I'm like, I'm sorry, why? Why are you telling Maggie where to look?

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

And I'm like, has this happened before? Maggie doesn't ask. She just is going to the water. She's searching the beaches.

[Host 1]

Like.

It'S the most ominous.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I'm sure it's a paraphrase, but it's like, hey, like, it's Patrick's missing. Look by the water.

[Host 1]

Just say what you mean.

[Host 2]

So we're looking by the water. It's September 17th. Hannah's car is found in the parking lot of one of the beaches, and all of her things are there.

[Host 1]

It's Sapphire Beach. We learned that it's Hannah's favorite beach. I've already planned a day at Sapphire Beach. Like, I got to go.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Hannah's favorite beach.

[Host 2]

Her purse, her IDs, her passport, her phone, hundreds of dollars in cash, her voter ID card, her bank account information, her credit cards. Was going to leave the island like most people were, but only she's not there.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

But, like, everything she would need to take with her is there.

[Host 1]

The important thing about this timeline, because the next thing that happens is a construction worker finds her sarong, her sundress and sandals folded on a bar stool.

[Host 2]

Like, folded nicely. Like. Like place with purpose.

[Host 1]

Yes. Like, the thing that's really important to understand here, that's not really clear, is that Hannah was last seen two days before Hurricane Maria. So there was a really bad Hurricane Irma. Irma. Then there's a couple of days, and then Hannah goes to the beach with all of her shit and, like, all puts all of her clothes on a. On a stool. And then two days later is the big hurricane.

[Host 2]

But and also just to, like, really hit home, like, it's not like everything went back to normal.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

Everything was destroyed by Hurricane Irma. So, like, everything was folded and nicely placed on top of a bar stool in what used to be a beach bar.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's still surrounded by destruction. So it's not like everyone's at the beach today.

[Host 1]

No, but my point, I think what it took me until the second time watching this to understand was she didn't disappear in the second storm. She disappeared two days before. So, like, when she, like, folded her clothes up at the beach and put them on the board, it was a nice day out. It was a mess. The beach was covered in debris. And people will say later she would have been the only person there, like, if she, like, went for a swim that day, which is what it seems like, happened.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Like she drove to the beach, like you were saying, maybe with all of her shit, like she was going to leave the island. And maybe she's like, I'm gonna go to my favorite beach for one last time on this nice day. She takes all of her clothes off, gets in the water, and then is never seen again.

[Host 2]

Because in between the days, in between these hurricanes, there's no, like, free time. Everyone's panicking, everyone's, like, preparing. Everyone's leaving. You know, it's not like the vibes are awful.

[Host 1]

The vibes are awful. It was just in my brain, I thought she, like went into the water in the middle of the hurricane and it was like. No, no, no. It was like there was. She goes missing, two days pass and then there's Hurricane Maria.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And they say that, like, after she.

[Investigator/Police]

Goes missing, like several people actually went missing. It was just hard to find out where your family members were. And you know, up to this date we still have some, you know, people that were still missing. And here comes the second hurricane.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

They only really could search for her for two days. Days before Maria.

[Host 1]

Everyone is looking for her, but they only have two days to search for her before Hurricane Maria hits.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

So, like, that's just an important thing to me is that she went missing in the middle of like a beautiful day, even though it was like a. The beach was a mess and everyone is panicking, getting ready for the next storm. It was good weather.

[Host 2]

And this is where they tell us Hannah is an excellent swimmer. Like, excellent, excellent. So she was winning swimming races all the time, but she'd beat everyone by like 45 minutes. I mean, really good swimmer. Ye.

[Host 1]

You just made the good point that I just want to, I want to reiterate because it didn't occur to me, even upon the second viewing, she had all of her shit on her. Her passport, her cash, her wallet, bank information, bank. As though she were going to leave. And then it looks like she like went and like changed her clothes at this, like, what used to be this beach bar and then like maybe went for a swim and, and, and we don't know what happened. Yeah, but it looked like she was going to leave. Like she had all of her stuff.

[Host 2]

With her and, you know, her cover up and her, her sandals or whatever were like placed with purpose. It seems like they folded nicely on a chair.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So I don't know. But she was an amazing swimmer. So they're thinking like, well, maybe she went for a swim and then something bad happened and like, everyone's like, no matter how good of a swimmer you are, the ocean is the freaking ocean. And, like, it's impossible sometimes.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Especially when, like, the. The way the water is moving when a hurricane just left and another one is on the way. The currents are crazy. Yeah, crazy.

[Host 1]

I mean, the only thing to say about that is that, like, you can swim to other islands from here. Theoretically. But there's also a lot of boat traffic, a lot of private boats that would offer to help somebody in the water if they were in the water. The possibilities are really endless. If she had, like, an emergency while she's out swimming, hopefully somebody would have seen her, but. Or, like, her body would have washed.

[Host 2]

Up or maybe not. I don't. I really don't subscribe to the, like, oh, her body. Totally. I don't. You don't know. The ocean, it's huge.

[Host 1]

Especially in the middle of, like, a weather pattern, like a weather situation like that.

[Host 2]

Like, two conflicting weather patterns. Like, you have no idea.

[Host 1]

No, it's true.

[Host 2]

So September 17, three days after Hannah's disappearance, there is this major search effort, but as we're told, it's three days late. She's been missing for three days. What are we going to. I mean, the first 48 are the most important, but there are.

[Host 1]

People are also saying that, like, you know, if she wanted to disappear on purpose, like, she easily could have gotten on one of those boats with. No, like, nobody. Everybody just wanted these people off these islands. So, like, they were getting them on these passenger ships, getting them on whatever they could. Yeah. So if Hannah just wanted to vanish.

[Host 2]

Like, she could have, because there's a PI Here. His name is Steve, and he's like, yeah, the. Theoretically, you could swim to other islands from here, but there's also all this boat traffic and lots of private boats, so people would have seen someone swimming in the water, he's saying, especially because people are scrambling to leave the island.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And then he, like, says all this, and he's like, right. So the possibilities of what could have happened are endless. And I'm like, thanks a lot, Steve.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Because it's like, there's. There's no indication that she was trying to escape anything in her life.

[Host 2]

And also, Hannah's not the only person missing, by the way. Like, it's a very scary time for them.

[Host 1]

Very good point. Yeah.

[Host 2]

People are missing. They are in between two incredibly devastating hurricanes.

[Host 1]

Y.

[Host 2]

It's awful. But then everybody learns.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

Everybody assumed that I, as, like, the point person for this search, was aware of her past disappearances. And I wasn't.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It turns out Hannah up had disappeared not once, but twice before.

[Host 2]

Hannah has gone missing twice before.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Twice. This is her third time missing. I was like, what?

[Host 1]

I know. These are pretty crazy. Like, she wasn't missing an hour. Like, these are pretty wild stories.

[Host 2]

So let's go back to time number one.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

August 28, 2008. Nine years earlier, she was about to start her second year teaching in Harlem.

[Host 1]

In New York City.

[Host 2]

Right. So her roommate Manuel is here. And he describes the morning of the first day of school. He knocks on her door to wish her luck and remind her not to be late. Manuel, please stay in your lane.

[Host 1]

But here's the thing, Manuel, I thought he was such a little cutie.

[Host 2]

Then I told her, don't be late.

[Host 1]

Don't be late. But I think his point is that, like, he's. I know. It's not. We're not mad at you. We're mad at the dirt, Manuel.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

The point is he talked to her that morning. And then the story was she went for a run and then never showed up to school.

[Host 2]

And it was like the first day of school. So they were buzzy.

[Host 1]

You know that timeline is the same as St. Thomas because the time and.

[Host 2]

The date is almost the same. It's September.

[Host 1]

Because that's why I said, remember that timeline? Because in on St. Thomas, she was seen at 8am and leaving her house. Like that's about the same time she would have gone for the run in Harlem nine years earlier.

[Host 2]

And the dates are almost exactly the same.

[Host 1]

Yeah. And then she vanishes.

[Host 2]

The beginning of the school year. Every the morning, the beginning of the school year.

[Host 1]

And also, Manuel, later that afternoon, he gets home, he finds her purse, her wallet, her credit cards are the same thing. She, like, took off without any of her shit.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So Detective Samuel Perez is here from the nypd and he says it's treated like a homicide investigation.

[Host 1]

And he says it was a really big deal. He said the mayor's office was interested, the teachers union was interested, the media was interested. I was saying to you before we started, I'm kind of surprised. I don't remember this story.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Missing white woman syndrome, I guess.

[Host 1]

But, like, the way that it was, like, on the COVID of all of the papers.

[Host 2]

Papers? Yeah.

[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

So she's missing for nine days. And after nine days, a witness calls.

[Host 1]

He says, look, I saw Hannah at 57th street in the Apple Store.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The tipster was an acquaintance of Hannah's from graduate school.

[Interviewee 2]

The surveillance camera captured that conversation. And essentially he had asked her, are you the Hannah that everyone is looking for? And she kind of waved him off and dismissed that idea.

[Host 1]

Idea?

[Host 2]

They went to grad school together.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

He knew her.

[Host 1]

He sees her in the Apple Store. Like the fucking fifth Avenue Apple Store.

[Host 2]

Can I ask a question?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Especially like, Apple is everywhere.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Why is the 57th Street Apple store such a tourist spot?

[Host 1]

I don't know. Well, there, it's beautiful. Like, there's like that big Apple cube on the outside. I know. Well, we're jaded New Yorkers. We don't care.

[Host 2]

But you can go to the Apple Store anywhere.

[Host 1]

But it's like you can get M&M's anywhere. The M and M store in Times Square is like the biggest thing on planet earth for. For tourists. Okay, I know it doesn't make any sense, but it just. But it just is.

[Host 2]

It just seems like, oh, I'm gonna go to Europe and then make a big tech purchase in another country.

[Host 1]

It just feels like, no, I'm with you on this.

[Host 2]

We have a lot of other things to see.

[Host 1]

That's true.

[Host 2]

In a couple block radius from when you're standing online at the freaking Apple Store in Manhattan.

[Host 1]

I know. You know, I'm with you on this.

[Host 2]

It just feels like it's not even.

[Host 1]

The best Apple Store in Manhattan.

[Host 2]

I don't.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

I hate if I. If I don't have to go.

[Host 1]

I know. This is A real. This is a real trigger point for you.

[Host 2]

I really don't like it.

[Host 1]

I.

[Host 2]

Look, the fact that they're called geniuses is obnoxious. You can't tell me any different.

[Host 1]

Look at my. Look at the screen on my phone. Oh, you can't even really see it. It is cracked eight ways till Sunday. Yeah, I can barely even swipe up without cutting my finger. I can't go. I'm gonna lose a whole day going to the Genius. The Genius Bar. Why does it take a whole day? Why do you have to keep my phone? Why can't you just fix it?

[Host 2]

I don't know.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

They're geniuses. If they're geniuses, they should be able to do seconds.

[Host 1]

No, I'm with you on this last all day. But this guy says to her, are you the Hannah everyone's been looking for? And she's like, nope. Now, we also learn, and we get this fact given to us quickly, but I think it's important.

[Interviewee 2]

She had logged into her Gmail account and then immediately logged out. And so that was what made people realize that she was definitely alive.

[Host 2]

After he's like, hey, are you that Hannah? And she's like, no, get out of my face, you weirdo. But after that, that's when she logs in and Gmail account, like her Gmail account that she. That must be her name. So, like, he's like, are you Hannah? And she's like, no. And he. And then she's like, hannah up at Gmail.

[Host 1]

Exactly. And then we learned she's been going to the New York Sports Club, which is like a. It's like a chain gym in New York City. And she's been, like, reciting her tag number. Now, having been a member of the New York Sports Club for years and years, there. There was a time in the, like in the. Around this time, the 2005-2010s, where you needed to have your little badge for them to, like, boop you in. But if you didn't, you could memorize your number and tell it to them, and then there'd be a picture that would pop up to prove that it's you. So I used to do this, and I'm thinking it was the same New York Sports Club that they showed in this archive, like the one in Midtown.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

But she was going there to shower, and she was giving them from memory her badge number, which is like a 10 digit number.

[Host 2]

So she's going as Hannah.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

And so it's weird because it's like, yay, she's alive. But also, everyone in Manhattan is looking for her, including the NYPD and the mayor's office. And we still don't have her home safe. And all she's doing is leaving a digital trail of. She is.

[Host 1]

And she would definitely know that they're looking for her, mostly because that guy she went to grad school with told her.

[Host 2]

Right. But also, how have we still not gotten her home safe?

[Host 1]

I know, I know. And, like, eventually the cops are like, she was evading us, like, she did not want to be found.

[Host 2]

So it's September 16, 2018.

[Host 1]

This is going to make sense in.

[Host 2]

Two minutes, 19 days after her first appearance. And again, the dates are almost exactly the same as the St. Thomas dates. Hannah is eventually found in New York harbor by people on the Staten island ferry, face down.

[Host 1]

She's floating down in the harbor.

[Host 2]

And she wasn't trying to swim. Remember? We know she's an excellent, excellent, excellent swimmer.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

She wasn't trying to swim. And the cop is like, it's as close to drowning as you can get. Like, they thought she had drowned. She's laying there face down in the water, not moving, and it takes them.

[Host 1]

Like, seven minutes to get over. Somehow they rescue her.

[Host 2]

She's alive?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

She's taken to the hospital.

[Interviewee 1]

She was dehydrated, badly sunburned, and hypothermic. And they were trying to get all of that stabilized. But when I first saw her, she had no idea what had happened.

[Narrator/Reporter]

What did she tell you? Did she say, mom, I can't believe it?

[Interviewee 1]

She said, I. I'm fine, but I'm scared. I don't know what happened.

[Host 2]

She can't remember anything. She doesn't know what happened or why it happened or when it happened or anything.

[Host 1]

But she's, like, from the entire week, she's been missing.

[Host 2]

19 days.

[Host 1]

19 days. Yeah.

[Host 2]

But she's, like, back to being Hannah, right? Because at the Apple store, she wasn't, but yet she was. She knew her New York Times Sports Club login.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

She knew her Gmail login and password. And now that she's at the hospital, she's like, oh, yes, I'm Hannah, but I don't know how I got here. I don't know what happened 19 days ago to spark this.

[Host 1]

And also, like, the thing that, like, I can't make sense is like, okay, we know she was showering at the New York Sports Club. We know that she was, like, going to the Apple store to check her email. Where was she staying?

[Host 2]

I don't. I have a lot of questions that I'll ask later because it's. There's something that sparked a ton of questions, and I don't understand it.

[Host 1]

Yes. Yes.

[Host 2]

So the psychiatrists at the hospital speak with her, and they come to the conclusion that Hannah had what they call.

[Host 1]

A dissociative fugue, which I only know from Breaking Bad.

[Host 2]

Well, I was gonna say so. It's when a person loses complete awareness of who they are. Now, Walter White, very early on in Breaking Bad, faked a fugue state when really Tuco had kidnapped him.

[Host 1]

Jesse.

[Host 2]

But in that moment, you're like.

[Host 1]

You're like an encyclopedia.

[Host 2]

I love breaking fake.

[Host 1]

I know. Me too.

[Host 2]

And better calls all, but. Cause you're thinking. You're like, how the hell is he gonna get out of this with Skyler?

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

What is he gonna say? Tuco kidnapped him and Jesse, like, this is bad. How is he. He's still like, a teacher.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Like, this is when he shows up to the store and he's nake. And so that's how he gets out of it, to be like, oh, no. Oh, I'm Walter White. I don't know what happened. But it's a real thing.

[Host 1]

Yes, the fugue state is a real.

[Host 2]

Thing, according to some people, some schools of thought.

[Host 1]

I am asking this, like, rhetorically. I don't. I'm not, like, calling bullshit on anybody's horrible experience, but, like, is this.

[Interviewee 1]

Is this real?

[Host 2]

Well, because we're told that this is both a super rare condition.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And a controversial diagnosis.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So because Rachel from the New Yorker.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She spent six months researching Hannah's story and her diagnosis.

[Interviewee 2]

This is such a hard concept to grapple with, that someone can kind of go offline from their own personality. And that the fact that it's so confusing kind of makes people inclined to dismiss.

[Host 2]

Makes people inclined to dismiss it. And I'm like, yeah. Especially when the newspapers are calling it the Jason Bourne Central.

[Host 1]

I know. And now I don't want to be that dick who's like, this can never happen. This can't. Like, this can't happen to anybody.

[Host 2]

But.

[Host 1]

But, like, I don't. I don't know. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Good. I've never seen them.

[Host 1]

They're fucking great.

[Host 2]

Are they?

[Host 1]

Oh, my God. They're so. The last ones, like, with Jeremy Renner, I didn't watch when, like, they switched the born, but the first four I saw in the movie.

[Host 2]

But apparently this is what happens to him. He doesn't know who he is.

[Host 1]

Well, that's how the Whole thing opens. He's like floating in the middle of the ocean.

[Host 2]

And he's floating.

[Host 1]

Yes. And he doesn't. Yes. Yes.

[Host 2]

What?

[Host 1]

And he doesn't know who he is. And he's pulled onto a boat and all of a sudden his life is in danger. And then he's just beating people to death. But he doesn't know how. He knows how to do it.

[Host 2]

Get out of here.

[Host 1]

It's kind of amazing.

[Interviewee 2]

Who.

[Host 2]

He's Jason Bourne.

[Host 1]

He's Jason Bourne.

[Host 2]

But who is he?

[Host 1]

I can't remember. All I know is that Joan Allen is also in this movie and she's incredible. How does she not have an Academy Award? There are so many people. Not only does she. Not. Glenn Close does not. My mother takes up merch with that.

[Host 2]

What?

[Host 1]

I know, I know.

[Host 2]

Why are you being so mean?

[Host 1]

I, I. Look, I'm just calling it like I see it. Sometimes I gotta be the bearer of bad news. Joan Allen does not have an Academy Award. I know.

[Host 2]

I don't want to talk about it.

[Host 1]

I don't want to talk about it either.

[Host 2]

But so, but he's like a CIA guy. Like this Jason Bourne. Like he's, he's been trained for this and that's. And he just like, okay, yeah, whatever. Yeah, we have like a real story to talk about.

[Host 1]

I know, but it's like. But do we.

[Host 2]

But it's weird because, like, okay, this Jason Bourne thing, he forgets who he is. But she did know who she was enough to log into her email. Well, and remember her, her gym membership.

[Host 1]

That's the whole thing.

[Host 2]

But the cops, like, people are not understanding it. And to Rachel from the New Yorker's Point, it's like, it's confusing. So people are like, fuck it, it can't be real. Because I'm confused by it, people, because the public is now harassing her and people are questioning her. And now we get audio from 2 of a 23 year old Hannah talking about this experience. She did one interview and this is it. When I first came to, it was like, what do you mean there by then?

[Narrator/Reporter]

This is a recording of Hannah up herself as she struggled to figure out what happened to her.

[Host 2]

It goes from like going for a run to like being in the ambulance. And for me that was like 10 minutes past, but it was like three weeks.

[Host 1]

All I know is I went for a run and I woke up 10 minutes later in an ambulance. Except it wasn't 10 minutes, it was three weeks.

[Host 2]

Right? So she was in this fugue state for three weeks and she is Explaining. She mortified. She feels a lot of guilt. She's very confused. She does what you should never do, which is reading the articles about her and the comment section.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And she's like, it's really hard for her, especially because people don't believe her, and they're, like, accusing her of all sorts of things. And she's like, I'm 23 years old. I went through some kind of crisis, and now everyone is, like, talking shit about her.

[Host 1]

My issue with this. And look, people are saying this is real, and Hannah says, this is real. I am more than happy to believe it. I just don't know why I seem to be more curious about it than Hannah.

[Host 2]

Well, especially. Exactly. Point. So Hannah worked with doctors who told her she probably never fall into a fugue state again. But probably isn't. Definitely. Number one.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

Number two, five years later, this happened again. This is not the St. Thomas story. Now we're in Maryland.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Interviewee 2]

Hannah had moved to Maryland, where she was working at a Montessori school.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Again, same time of year.

[Interviewee 1]

Yeah. Water was involved again. But she came to sitting in kind of a creek in suburban Maryland, Maryland, and came to on her own, knew who she was.

[Narrator/Reporter]

This time. It lasted two days, was all the same.

[Host 1]

The start of the school year, September. Water is involved.

[Host 2]

Yeah. So it's the. She goes missing for two days in September, the same time of year as both St Thomas, which is now in the future, in New York, which is in the past.

[Host 1]

You nailed that timeline, by the way.

[Host 2]

Thank you.

[Host 1]

You're welcome.

[Host 2]

She came to by a creek. So once again, water.

[Host 1]

We also see this creek, which I'm assuming is the actual creek. And it's gorgeous.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's beautiful.

[Host 1]

She, like, came to in the middle of this, like, gorgeous, like fairy Kingd in the middle of Maryland.

[Host 2]

But this is only two days. And then one year later, she moves to St. Thomas. So my question is, I have many questions. Some of them are, yeah, what can be done about this? Like, if this is real, what do you do to prevent this from happening?

[Host 1]

Yeah, we were talking about this before we started recording. Like, if this were Daisy, I just don't think that I would. And I'm not blaming the mom. I'm not blaming the. I'm just saying, if it were me, everyone's allowed to make their own choices. But if it's. It were me, I just don't think I'd be like, you should definitely move super far away to an isolated island surrounded by water when you keep losing time. I mean, the first Time it was a week. The second time it was two days. Anything could happen. If this is real, anything could happen to you during that time.

[Host 2]

Yeah. And I guess my questions are like, what is her life like in this fugue state? Where is she sleeping?

[Host 1]

And none of her friends on St. Thomas know about it, so she's not telling. Not that it's anybody's business, but you would just like setting yourself up for safety and success. Like, hey, if I go missing, this is what sort of tends to happen to me sometimes.

[Host 2]

Because like, she knew to go to her own gym.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

She knew her card number. She knew to take showers. So I'm like, was she eating? Is she wearing the same clothes? Like, my question is, like, when you're in this fugue state.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Experts on this, like, how far away are you?

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

Because she knew to take showers. So she's like, okay, I'm a human being. Is she questioning who am I? I just want to know, like, what is going through her mind when she's, when she's far away like that.

[Host 1]

My questions are more logistical in terms of like, know it was like the first time it was New York in the, in the early fall, so it's hospitable weather. She could be sleeping in Central park if she wanted to. But I don't think she's walking around the Apple Store looking like severely unhoused or mentally unwell. Like, she's taking care of herself enough.

[Host 2]

Right. She's knows to do that.

[Host 1]

Yeah. She's staying. How is she eating?

[Host 2]

Right. And also like, what's the trigger that starts it and what's the trigger that makes you come back?

[Host 1]

Yeah, I really want to get to the doctor. Can we get to the doctor? Dr. Soon.

Girl. Momentous is back. We got to talk about their new creatine chews.

[Host 2]

Yeah. I always thought that creatine was just for building muscle. That's what I always thought it was about.

[Host 1]

Is good for that, but it's for so many other things as well.

[Host 2]

Yeah. It's like a daily essential for your strength. Focus, recovery, aging, cognitive performance. So much more than muscle.

[Host 1]

They've been talking about the focus and the cognitive benefits of creatine lately. I'm seeing it all over the Internet. And now you get it in a delicious chewable. What? Like, why are you not taking. Taking this?

[Host 2]

They're bite sized lemon lime chews. You know how easy that is to take every day.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

To make a shake, you don't have to. Whatever, you just pop in. It's a lemon lime Chewable.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

Not unlike myself.

[Host 1]

Look, it's trusted by Olympic athletes, pro sports teams, and elite military operators. And the podcasters you've heard of.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Exactly. Most importantly, Momentous spent years testing until they created the first chewable that actually meets the Momentous standard.

[Host 1]

Yeah, they're not following the trends. They perfect the fundamentals, as they say.

[Host 2]

Yeah. They're not compromising science. They're doing meticulous sourcing. They're giving you real transparency.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I mean, I love this stuff. I started taking it every day a couple of months ago. I have seen a different. In the muscles, girl.

[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

You know what I mean? So, fam. Right now, Momentous is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first order with promo code TCO.

[Host 2]

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[Host 1]

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[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

Beauty and brains.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

Muscles and brains and focus.

[Host 1]

The Jillian Pets of all you.

[Host 2]

There you go.

So Elizabeth Vargas goes to Stanford, and We talk to Dr. Spiegel.

[Host 1]

No, he's like, the top doctor in the country on disassociated fugue states. And, like, he's here to tell us that, like, this shit is real. It really happens. It's like two people in a thousand. But then he basically has no answers to any of our questions. Like, when. When asked about the email thing, he's.

[Expert/Doctor]

Like, well, she knew what she had to do all the time. When she got in front of a computer, she typed, types in her, you know, username and password, and she may not have associated it with the rest of her identity.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Like muscle memory.

[Expert/Doctor]

Yeah, kind of.

[Host 1]

Maybe it was just muscle memory. Like, she's put herself in front of a computer so many times, she put her hands down and just types in the username and the password on its own.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

And then when it comes to the gym, like, maybe going to the gym was another thing that, like, she did all the time. So she just, like, had her number and she just knew to give it when she walked in. But then, like, how did she know that she needed to check her email? How did she know that she needed to go take a shower?

[Host 2]

Like, and it's clearly, like, you're saying she wasn't active, acting like she was in any kind of manic episode because they let her into the gym.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

And so it's not like she was like, Screaming. Or she looked in a way that you're like, oh, do you need help, ma'? Am? Like, it wasn't. It was just like, sure, write it like, can I get you a towel? Or whatever?

[Host 1]

And if you're the leading expert on this in our country, I need you to give me a little bit more information.

[Host 2]

Because he says. He says in this state, people tend to lose memory of much of their ordinary identity and wander off. He says it's real. It's happened. He's seen it, he's treated it, but then that's where the details kind of end.

[Host 1]

And he also says that this is triggered by emotional or physical trauma.

[Host 2]

And he says people usually don't come from, quote, absolutely normal lives.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And that they're not always traumatized, but often there's trauma. And I'm like, well, let's talk to the mom, then.

[Host 1]

So. But the mom's here to be like, nope, nothing there. Nothing to see here.

[Host 2]

Nothing. And apparently, Hannah also hasn't told anyone that anything ever happened to her that that would be considered trauma. She also is incredibly secretive.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But I. After the first two times it happened, she did hypnosis to try to find trauma, and she didn't find any. And I'm like, no trauma? Like, what's that like?

[Host 1]

Right, and then. Oh, right. Exactly. Are we meant to believe then that, like, it's like, the weather event on St. Thomas was so trauma? Like, I just. I want to believe her. It's just like, it. Maybe it's just that we just don't know enough about this. Maybe it's like, it usually is brought on by some sort of, like, trauma memory or something.

[Host 2]

Well, to me, it's school, and that doesn't need to be traumatic. But I'm saying I'm looking at the pattern.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

All three times. All three. All three times this has happened.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's been almost to the date. Whatever the first day of school is is when this is happening.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

It's the first day of school.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Or the day before it or whatever. So something about that has triggered something. I don't mean that school is triggering for her. I'm just saying, like, if we were to write it on paper, there's something about that time of year or something about that prep that is inducing this fugue state for her.

[Host 1]

It just. It feels like she's. I don't know. I feel like we should be anticipating it by the third time. You know what I mean?

[Host 2]

And, like, so the expert doctors, like.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Could Hannah still be in a Fugue state for more than a year now.

[Expert/Doctor]

I think that's likely. She was prone to it, and so it wouldn't surprise me that she would do it again. And I hope that's what's going on.

[Narrator/Reporter]

How long does a fugue state normally last?

[Expert/Doctor]

Sometimes it's just a day or two. A couple days, and sometimes it can be for years.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Years.

[Expert/Doctor]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Well, it's likely that Hannah is in her third fugue state. And I'm like, well, clearly we don't really know anything about this, because the first time it happened, the doctors are like, this happens once and you're one and done, and this will never happen again.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

And now we're on number three.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

And now he's saying she's been in this state for when this documentary was made. A year. And he's like, well, sometimes it lasts for a day or sometimes it lasts for years. And I'm like, well, but also going.

[Host 1]

Missing in St. Thomas different than going missing in New York City. Like, you can live in the island, on the island of Manhattan for your entire life and never need your passport. You know what I mean? Like, in St. Thomas, like, she can't go anywhere without, like, her ID, her. Her passport, her cash, you know, it's also incredibly small. Yes. And people would see her.

[Host 2]

So, okay, if you. We can't find her on the island, did she get on one of those boats? But it's like, well, she. All of her IDs were left. All of her. Like her license, her passport, like, anything to identify her, she left.

[Host 1]

The only other thing that they point out here, too, is that it seems that when goes into these few states, she becomes somebody who doesn't want to be found. So it's not like you can. Like, the. The friend who saw her at the Apple Store is like, are you the one that everyone's looking for? She's like, no, you never saw me. I was never here. And then she, like, disappears into the.

[Host 2]

Hold on, let me log into my Gmail.

[Host 1]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

And it's. I'm saying things like that. I know it sounds smug or, like, glib or whatever, but I'm saying it is because I. I don't. We don't know enough about this state or this condition.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

To answer all of the many questions that I have. Because who does she think she is?

[Host 1]

Right.

[Host 2]

Not like, who the.

[Host 1]

Does she think she is, but who.

[Host 2]

Think she is in this state because she knows enough to go to the gym and use that. Her number and log into Gmail. So she knows that she's Hannah. Enough. Enough on some level somewhere.

[Host 1]

But then we, like, we're back on the island.

[Investigator/Police]

We spoke to several people who. Who thought they saw her, and we would do all these chases. So we've been all over the island pretty much.

[Narrator/Reporter]

How many tips do you think you've investigated?

[Investigator/Police]

Dozens of tips.

[Host 2]

Dozens.

[Host 1]

Dozens.

[Investigator/Police]

Dozens of tips.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

Sightings almost every day, and sometimes a multiple per day.

[Host 1]

There are sometimes multiple sightings of Hannah per day. Like, they are looking for her everywhere. They're saying there's sometimes multiple sightings of her per day. Also, she's maybe been seen in Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic. I know this is giving us, like, Amy Bradley.

[Host 2]

There's a theory that she's on the island but changed her appearance because she's somehow aware enough that she doesn't want to be Hannah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

But she's still in this fugue state. Like, I just. I don't think she's on the island hiding.

[Host 1]

The mom is, like, driving around in Hannah's car all day, every day, looking for her. Like, if she was actively on the island, the mother would have seen her. Somebody would have been like, she's. I mean. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Host 2]

Well, they. They say that they're looking at neighboring islands because there was a time after the hurricanes where you could go from island to island without I.D.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So that sort of makes things much more complicated for a time.

[Host 1]

Oh, God.

[Host 2]

Five months after the St. Thomas disappearance, Hannah is supposedly spotted in what they call a drug den. Ye talk to the cop who say he arrests her.

[Host 1]

Like, this woman is insisting she's not Hannah. This guy doesn't believe, like, the mom is on the way. So, like, we're in the car with the cop. He's like, this woman was seen an hour ago. The cop gets to the scene, sees the girl. She's like, I'm not Hannah. The guy puts her in handcuffs. It's like, the mother will be the judge of that, of course.

[Host 2]

They're like. And she was furious, trying to get away from him. And I'm like, obviously, you put this woman in handcuffs. So Barbara, Hannah's mom, looks at the woman, and she's like, that's not my daughter. And I'm like, well, did someone help her? Does she need help? Because two seconds ago, you described in a pretty bad way.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And Barbara had his mother goes.

[Interviewee 1]

I remember saying to her, I'm so sorry. You know, we're looking for my daughter. And this young woman got the handcuffs off and embraced me and said, I wish I Were her for you. Such a compassionate response.

[Host 2]

I wish I were her for you.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And Barb was like, oh, okay, but you're not bi. And I'm like, don't you hear that as a cry for help?

[Host 1]

I know.

[Host 2]

She's saying, I wish someone was here to save me. I wish I was her so that I could be rescued. And with you, like, is this woman okay?

[Host 1]

I know it's horrible.

[Host 2]

And then we just, like, never hear from her.

[Sponsor Voice/Disclaimer]

Never hear from her again.

[Host 1]

This was a very fast episode. Like, the 43, two minutes, whatever it was, went real fast.

[Host 2]

And so, like, everyone, you know, Barbara, her mother, and her friends obviously are holding on to hope because these experts are saying, like, well, you know what we know about fugue states? Not much, but we do know that, like, she can snap out of it at any time. So they're. They're telling her, like, her mother is still sending emails to Hannah, thinking she's hoping that Hannah will check her email like she did in New York. All know.

[Host 1]

And it's like, we're told that the longest a few states ever lasted was four years. This would now be seven, like, in 2025. So, like, I'm sorry to say it, but, like, I think that, like, she went to the beach. I think she got in the water and she met.

[Host 2]

I think she.

[Host 1]

I think she died.

[Host 2]

I think, unfortunately, she perished.

[Host 1]

And maybe she was in a fugue state and got into the water. Maybe in a few states she didn't know how to swim as well. I mean, remember, like, when they found her in New York harbor, she was floating face down.

[Host 2]

You know, she wasn't trying to swim, and she's an excellent swimmer. And maybe part of that fugue state is like, oh, I can handle this.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And so because she was found face down in New York, she was found by the creek. She was found near water. It's the same if you're looking at the pattern.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I mean, I looked it up today. I looked to see if there's any updates. There isn't anything.

[Host 2]

None. There's just a lot of theories.

[Host 1]

Yes.

Oh, my God, girl. We did. What's it called?

[Host 2]

It's called Vanish in Paradise, the Untold Story.

[Host 1]

It was a very interesting story. I mean, like, it was. I'm gonna read that New Yorker piece because I hope that it's, like, full of information about fugue states and that whole thing.

[Host 2]

I hope they've, like, at least updated it, you know, I mean, it's not that. That. Oh, no, because that was. That happened in 2008 or nine.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, anyway, you know, it was a good, interesting episode and I'll look for it when I'm on St. Thomas.

[Host 2]

It's crazy, fam.

[Host 1]

Don't forget to join the Facebook group. Don't forget to check out our patreon over 500 full ad free bonus episodes.

[Host 2]

Got a lot going on.

[Host 1]

I know. And you know, you get to download and binge those to set second, you sign up immediately. If you are on the hero bell tier, you're going to get our holiday calendar. We're going to be sending them out like so soon.

[Host 2]

I love the calendar. It's the best.

[Host 1]

We just were looking at all the images. They are so fun. They're so good. What are we doing next, girl?

[Host 2]

All right, so there's a show on Netflix. It's called Love Con Revenge. This is Cecilia from Tinder Swindler.

[Host 1]

Yes.

[Host 2]

This is her new show.

[Host 1]

Explain what's going on here.

[Host 2]

So Netflix is being annoying. So we're doing episode one and then the first 15 minutes of episode two. Because for whatever reason, they wrap up this case case in episode one to like get people to keep binging.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So we're doing episode one, which is like 40 minutes and then the first 15 minutes of episode two. And I think at like 15 minutes and 30 seconds, it has like the on screen text of like the name of the next case. You'll know it when you see it.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

The next case is called Fallen Soldier. So when you see the words Fallen Soldier, that's when we're done.

[Host 1]

So we're doing that on the regular feed. We're not doing that on Patreon. This is like a regular feed episode.

[Host 2]

Sorry. It's because it's like a full length documentary. It ends up being like almost 90 minutes.

[Host 1]

Minutes.

[Host 2]

So we're back with Cecilia from Tinder Swindlers.

[Host 1]

I love her. I watched the first episode. I'm like, this does not have a satisfying ending. And then I got your message today. I was like, first 15 minutes.

[Host 2]

And I don't think it's like that for the rest of the series. So it's like Netflix. We have Cecilia.

[Host 1]

I know. I mean, look, we're not going to Pernilla's yacht anytime soon. But can this not be the new way that, like, doc, like these channels start to do things that would be very annoying.

[Host 2]

I won't stand for it. And guess what? We're not going to fall for it because we're just going to stop talking about episode two in 15 minutes exactly. So it's not going to be like, oh, no, now we have to do a case and a half.

[Host 1]

No, no, no, no. You don't own us, Netflix. Hell no. All right, fans, so stay tuned for the trailer for that. We love you.

[Host 2]

We love you. Please stay safe out there.

[Host 1]

Yeah, do that.

[Interviewee 1]

Okay.

[Host 1]

All right, bye.

[Host 2]

I don't ask for much.

[Host 1]

No, that's true.

[Friend/Acquaintance]

Bye.

[Host 2]

I never thought that I would become a victim of romance fraud. I gave him $150,000. $2 million of debt. These scammers have been getting away with this for way too long. Hi, Cecilia. My name is Jill Shardine. I met a man online. He was charming, handsome, a ladies man. Like the perfect man. I mean, really, it was almost too good to be true. He called me up, like, in desperation, saying that he needed money. It was only going to be for, like, 48 hours, so the understanding that he would pay it back. I looked at my account and I just saw ATM withdrawals.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I just had to do something.

[Host 2]

Ran. Joseph is a private investigator. You recognize this guy? That's him in the green. Go, go, go. I'm like a pit bull. When I grab hold of something, I don't let it go. He's hauling ass now. Haul ass with him. We're going to find them.

[Interviewee 2]

I'll find his Facebook page.

[Host 2]

Hi. Expose them.

[Host 1]

You rock it.

[Host 2]

Were the tears real? And bring them to justice.

[Host 1]

Show me your hands. Do it now, Bob.

[Host 2]

Ain't nobody afraid of you.