475: In Ice Cold Blood: Miss Fortune

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed

Episode 475: In Ice Cold Blood: Miss Fortune
Original air date: December 11, 2025

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode centers on the chilling double homicide of a famous Vietnamese-American fortune teller, Ha “Ms. Ha” Smith, and her daughter Anita in Westminster, California, as recapped from the "In Ice Cold Blood" true crime TV series (Season 2, Episode 5: "Miss Fortune"). Hosts Nicole and Brooke dissect the investigation—blending humor, compassion, and critical insight—while spotlighting the victims, the eccentric suspects, and the wild, greed-driven motives at play.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Case & Victims (00:15–05:00)

• Background: Ha Smith, celebrated within the Vietnamese community as “Ms. Ha,” rebuilt her life in America after escaping Communist Vietnam, carrying her young daughter Anita through the Cambodian jungle and surviving in a Thai refugee camp.
  • “Ha literally carried her five-year-old daughter Anita on her shoulder through the Cambodian jungle...before relocating to America. Absolutely insane.” (Brooke, 03:56)
• Mother-Daughter Bond: The hosts repeatedly emphasize the unbreakable bond and courage of Ha and Anita.
  • “The most single mother badassery you can possibly fucking get, you know.” (Brooke, 04:10)
• Victim Profile: Anita is described as “the pride and joy,” now a brilliant UCLA law student.
• Ha’s Fortune Telling Business: Ms. Ha gains both wealth and renown through her spiritual and fortune-telling services, earning repeat business, especially via expensive love spells.
  • “Clients would pay 10, $15,000 to get their fortune told. She earned a very good living doing that.” (Narrator, 09:21)
  • “I mean, $15,000 for a love potion. It better work.” (Brooke, 12:21)

2. The Crime Scene (10:59–15:22)

• Discovery: A 911 call from Anita’s boyfriend (Dung) leads police to a ransacked home with candles, shrines, and chaos. Both women are found dead, bearing ritualistic marks and excessive stab wounds.
  • "Both victims had knife wounds in excess of 15 to 20 each.” (Detective, 02:30)
  • “Anita, the daughter, is found first...her face and hands are covered in white paint. There’s a black cloth over her face...” (Brooke, 12:33)
  • "Ha [is] hunched over, almost like she's bowing...one of her middle fingers is extended...is this some kind of a message?" (Narrator, 12:55)
• Forensics:
  • Bloody, recently washed knives (taken from the home’s block) are present.
  • Bloody footprint and evidence of the murderer using the victim’s bathroom, suggesting post-crime clean up.
• Occult Speculation: The ritualistic staging, white paint mixed with blood, and shrines puzzle police.
  • "Is this the occult? Is this religion? Is this just somebody trying to throw us off?" (Brooke, 13:21)

3. Initial Suspects & Motives (17:14–20:56)

• Boyfriend (Dung): Initial suspect due to proximity and reported obsessive behavior.
  • Dung brought food to the victims, noticed their dog (unnamed, later humorously referred to as “Jake”) was outside—a red flag.
  • “She's a grown woman who's in law school and can do so. Is that horrifying and traumatizing for everyone involved?... to then ban [the boyfriend]? It's just... it feels like a lot.” (Nicole, 19:54)
• Prior Home Invasion: Ms. Ha was previously targeted and robbed by Asian gang members; could revenge be a motive?
• Suspicious Handyman: A handyman arrives unprompted during the investigation, sporting a cut hand and white paint on his boots, raising eyebrows.
  • “It’s almost as if, poof, he just appeared out of thin air with white paint all over his boots.” (Nicole, 23:44)
• Suspects Cleared: Dung’s alibi (at work) checks out; paint on handyman’s boots doesn’t match evidence.

4. The Break in the Case: Credit Card Usage (29:32–32:23)

• Financial Clues: Despite the ransacking, $64,000 in cash and jewelry were missed by the thieves—Ms. Ha was adept at hiding valuables.
  • "$64,000 in cash hidden in a vacuum... jewelry in the coffee pot." (Nicole, 22:03, 22:22)
• Credit Card Trail: Killers begin using the victims’ cards at Target, then purchase airline tickets under Ms. Ha and Anita’s names.
  • “Not only are they using them, they're using it at Target. We see the video of these idiots using the credit cards at Target.” (Brooke, 29:43)
• Arrest: Detectives stake out the suspect on a flight—identified as Tanya Nelson—leading to her arrest. In her possession: stolen cards, luggage, and damning documents.

5. The Unraveling: Motives & Confessions (35:00–41:50)

• Tanya Nelson: From North Carolina, she attempted to fraudulently take over Ms. Ha and Anita’s bank accounts (found writing “horrible sin” on the calendar the day of the murders; 33:59).
  • “This woman Tanya, had written on the calendar, quote, horrible sin.” (Brooke, 34:23)
• Accomplice Identified: Philippe Zamora, her meek associate (client of Tanya’s escort service; she used knowledge of his homosexuality to blackmail and control him).
• Connection to Victims: Tanya obsessed over her brother-in-law and tried to use Ms. Ha’s services to win him back via a love spell. Ms. Ha refused—triggering Tanya’s rage.
  • “Tanya Nelson then goes to Miss Ha and wants a love spell put on…the brother in law... Ha explains... she couldn't do it. That sends Tanya into a rage.” (Narrator/Detective, 39:08–39:22)
• Murders Detailed:
  • Tanya and Philippe visit posing as clients. A confrontation erupts; both women are murdered in a violent, impromptu attack. Paint is used to “cover up” evidence.
  • “After the murders, they ransacked the place… Then Tanya tells Philippe to go get the white paint, and he does. Because all of this is easier than just being gay.” (Nicole, 41:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Victim Empathy & Social Commentary

• “That lady walked through the jungle with her daughter to give her a better life. And this is how they died. To protect your secret.” (Brooke, 42:50)
• “There isn’t a fucking spell in the world that's gonna make you likable. Or you not gay. Get grips, all of you.” (Nicole, 45:24)

Sharp Humor & Hosts’ Chemistry

• “You know what? Stay stupid and stay sloppy.” (Nicole, 15:13, about the bloody footprint)
• “Justice for Jake!” (Nicole, 18:27, about the family dog’s name never being mentioned)
• “Not only are they using them, they're using it at Target. And we see the video of these idiots using the credit cards…” (Brooke, 29:43)

Outrage at the Motive and Waste of Life

• “Your secret should not cost anybody else their fucking life. That's not how this works.” (Brooke, 42:03)
• “She wouldn’t do [the love spell] for this obviously unhinged woman. Also, there isn't a spell in the world that's gonna make you likable—or you not gay.” (Nicole, 45:15–45:29)

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Timeline of Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:15–05:00 | Introduction of Ha and Anita’s story and background | | 08:06–09:42 | Ha’s fortune telling business and community importance | | 10:59–15:22 | Crime scene discovery, investigation, and ritualistic clues | | 17:14–20:56 | Boyfriend as initial suspect, family dynamics | | 22:03–22:25 | Homespun burglary with cash/jewelry hiding highlights | | 23:22–24:15 | The “handyman” suspect and comic speculation | | 29:32–32:23 | Breakthrough with credit card usage and arrests | | 33:59–34:55 | Tanya’s calendar: “horrible sin” | | 35:00–41:50 | Motives, confessions, and retelling of the murders | | 44:00–45:30 | Sentences, aftermath, and hosts’ social commentary |

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Conclusion & Reflections (44:00–end)

• Justice & Sentencing: Tanya Nelson is convicted and receives the death penalty (one of very few women to do so in California). Philippe Zamora gets 27 years to life.
• Hosts’ Take: While not supporters of the death penalty, the hosts express little sympathy for the fate of the perpetrators—underscoring the senseless destruction visited on two extraordinary women by greed, obsession, and emotional instability.
• Victim Legacy: The episode closes with respect for Ha’s integrity—her refusal to use her craft unethically—and for Anita’s promising life.

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Overall Tone

The hosts’ combination of irreverence, righteous anger, and heartfelt empathy delivers a vivid, accessible account—layering true crime narrative, social commentary, and sharp humor. Their style is unfiltered and direct, with the tone oscillating between grave, satirical, and deeply poignant.

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For the next bonus episode:
Stay tuned for a lighter topic: a Lilith Fair documentary recap—“Building a Mystery”—as the hosts promise their signature blend of music nostalgia and sass.

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Memorable Signoff:
“Stay safe, please...Fuck you, Tanya.” — Nicole (47:09)

Transcript

[Nicole]

Oh, we don't do anything for the right. No, we do not. Discord. YouTube. LJ. Oh, hell yeah.

[Brooke]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Nicole]

Hell yeah. Wait, what happened to the thing? Okay, whatever. Sorry. I'm now officially just wasting time.

[Brooke]

Wait, what do you mean?

[Nicole]

I was just clicking all of my little to do list on our spreadsheet about, like, do we talk about everything? Do we do the right ads? I see a mistake that I made. I will fix it later. Not the time.

[Brooke]

You're so good with your spreadsheets. I think we've officially started. Are we in the episode? Are we?

[Nicole]

Hi, everyone.

[Brooke]

Hi, everyone.

[Nicole]

Little peek behind the curtain.

[Brooke]

Welcome to a little peek behind the curtain.

Hi, girl.

[Nicole]

Hey, girl.

[Brooke]

Congrats on being great with spreadsheets and checklists and to do lists.

[Nicole]

Thank you. Here's.

[Brooke]

I'm not good with that.

[Nicole]

I'm bad at making them, but man, I love filling them out.

[Brooke]

You know who else does? Daisy loves it. She loves, like, checking things off a checklist.

[Nicole]

Great.

[Brooke]

It does nothing for me. It means nothing to me.

[Nicole]

Oh, God, I'm so sorry. I wish you had that feeling. It's a great feeling.

[Brooke]

I know, I know.

[Nicole]

You get to the end of it. I mean, you never get to the end.

[Brooke]

Y.

[Nicole]

Really?

[Brooke]

Do you start with make a checklist and then check that off?

[Nicole]

No.

[Brooke]

Okay.

[Nicole]

No. You know what? I'll do what? Actually. Yes, you do. In a weird way. It'll be like, organize things for tomorrow or get my. Like, get your shit together. Yeah, I guess, in a way. Sure.

[Brooke]

Well, hi, fam.

[Nicole]

Hi, everyone.

[Brooke]

What are we doing today?

[Nicole]

Oh, this is our 21st bonus episode of the year.

[Brooke]

You know what? I'm very excited to honor H.A. smith and her daughter Anita. You know, we're going to do a great episode, but, like, tell them what we're doing for the next episode.

[Nicole]

We're doing the Lilith Fair thing.

[Brooke]

Is it called Building a Mystery?

[Nicole]

Yeah, for the last of the year. Which is like a full length documentary.

[Brooke]

I know. Have you watched it yet? Of course I have not. I've been waiting to watch it.

[Nicole]

No, you did. Didn't you text me that you were crying?

[Brooke]

No, I was crying watching the trailer. I was crying watching the fucking trailer.

[Nicole]

Oh, well, this episode is in ice cold blood. We are back with ice T Season 2, episode 5, missed Fortune. Don't love the titles of these episodes.

[Brooke]

I don't love the titles and I also don't like that Ice T starts out by going warning. The show you're about to see contains graphic images of sex and violence. You're not warning us, Ice T. You're trying to entice.

[Nicole]

Exactly.

[Brooke]

You know.

[Nicole]

And he does it. It's the same one. It's a canned. A canned intro.

[Brooke]

I don't like it.

[Nicole]

I don't like it.

[Brooke]

I don't like it.

[Nicole]

I don't like it.

[Brooke]

Some people will give anything for a glimpse into the future.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Clients would pay 10, $15,000 to get their fortune told.

[Brooke]

But no one could have predicted the horrific fate of the successful fortune teller and her daughter.

[Detective]

Both victims had knife wounds in excess of 15 to 20 each.

[Nicole]

There was something personal about the homicide.

[Brooke]

Detectives find a crime scene like none they've ever encountered.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It felt almost ritualistic.

[Investigator]

This had a very macabre, eerie feeling.

[Detective]

The bodies are both almost in a prayer position where their arms were extended.

[Brooke]

Out and the suspects are endless.

[Narrator/Reporter]

She had a boyfriend whom her mom did not approve of. This is a fortune teller who has.

[Nicole]

Hundreds of clients all over the country.

[Brooke]

Detectives dive into a world of greed, desperation, an obsession.

[Expert/Analyst]

They were out on a shopping spree using her credit cards.

[Detective]

She was trying to win back this man who she had a relationship with.

[Brooke]

All to find out who would kill this loving mother daughter duo in ice cold blood. Well, right at the top, we learn about Ha Smith and her daughter Anita. Ha was a single mom living in communist Vietnam. This story is wild. Anita, her five year old daughter, was her pride and joy. She put all of her hope in Anita. And we meet Lena, who's a journalist and she tells us that in 1975, communists took over Vietnam.

[Nicole]

So my aunt Ha and my cousin Anita escaped from Vietnam when Anita was approximately five years old. She carried Anita on her shoulder through Cambodia jungle, then past Cambodia and to Thailand.

[Brooke]

Ha literally carried her five year old daughter Anita on her shoulder through the Cambodian jungle into Thailand where they lived in a refugee camp for two years before relocating to America.

[Nicole]

Absolutely insane.

[Brooke]

I mean, the most single mother badassery you can possibly fucking get, you know.

[Nicole]

And I came in feeling a little tired today.

[Brooke]

I know.

[Nicole]

I mean, unbelievable.

[Brooke]

I'm just thinking about Anita, like complaining about anything. I carried you 500 miles through the Cambodian jungle into a. You know. Yes. Oh, yes.

[Nicole]

I mean, you.

[Brooke]

I'm. But what did you.

[Nicole]

I know you would. You.

[Brooke]

You might do it tonight. You felt that in your soul. Oh, you. I know it's true, but if you.

[Nicole]

Went through that, it would be, it would be. Yeah, I say this as a joke, but it would be hard to not be like, remember. Oh, do you not remember? Because you were so little.

[Brooke]

There were A baby.

[Nicole]

And I protected you. And I carried you through for two years. Sometimes if Fiona's like, not in the mood for snuggles, I'll be like, oh, oh. You were literally dumped on the street in South Carolina.

[Brooke]

Look at you now. Look where you. Look where you live.

[Nicole]

I'm allowed to.

[Brooke]

I know.

[Nicole]

Smell you.

[Brooke]

I know. Anyway, I wanted to give you a tickling update. Daisy has banned tickling.

[Nicole]

Thank you.

[Brooke]

And I got to tell you, like, she thought that I wouldn't go for it. And I was like, I had to explain to her that, like, it's her.

[Nicole]

Body, her choice, what happened.

[Brooke]

She just like, it's one of those things that she likes sometimes and she doesn't like it other times. But as a parent, it's such a go to thing. Oh, sure. It's such a go to thing to just grab her around the middle and be like, ah, not anymore. No.

[Nicole]

Got to find a new thing.

[Brooke]

So I told her that. Cuz she. She says, I can do it one time a night at bedtime. I get one at night, I can save them up to five. So I can save five days worth of tickling and then tickler five times one night at bedtime.

[Nicole]

She's really good wrapped around her foot.

[Brooke]

So now I like, I'll go to tickler and I'll be. She'll be like, daddy, tickle me. And I'll go like this. And when I get to her middle, my hands just go like it's broken.

[Nicole]

Oh, cute.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

So can you. Well, you're not gonna like, manipulate your kid. I was gonna be like, can you be like, well, two plus two plus two. Well, like, I only did two and then suddenly you're up to six.

[Brooke]

No, she's. I also can't borrow from tomorrow.

[Nicole]

So, like, that's a very poor way. I'm fried, by the way. My brain is absolutely fried. I'm like, how do you. Yeah, but no, and you wouldn't. And you shouldn't. I'm just asking, like.

[Brooke]

Yeah, sometimes she wants me to catch you.

[Nicole]

She'll catch you.

[Brooke]

Anyway. It's true. Yeah, Anyway.

[Nicole]

Anyway.

[Brooke]

Girl function is back. I love talking about function because it's the only health platform that gives me data most people never get and the insights to start doing something about it. You know, I've been using this for months. Yeah, I got into it to like check my testosterone levels. But now you get over 160 lab tests instantly and you can monitor them. So like, if there's anything wrong with you or if there's like any indicators that things aren't going smoothly, they tell you what to do to fix it. It is amazing.

[Nicole]

And I have to tell you. Tis the season.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

And this is just a way to give something that's not stuff you're giving the gift of the peace of mind.

[Brooke]

Yeah. And clarity. Like, give somebody the experience of being able to look at their, like, health in one dashboard in a place that they can like, monitor it and do stuff about it. I'm obsessed. Yeah.

[Nicole]

It's kind of perfect for the person who has everything.

[Brooke]

Exactly.

[Nicole]

This is something they'll actually use.

[Brooke]

I'm obsessed. Look, most gives fade girl. This one helps loved ones stay healthy.

[Nicole]

We just all want to be healthy together, don't we?

[Brooke]

Exactly. So them own your health for $365 a year.

[Nicole]

That's a dollar a day. Y Learn more and join using our.

[Brooke]

Link visit www.functionhealth.com/tco or give gift code TCO25 for a $25 credit towards your membership.

[Nicole]

Tis the season for healthy.

[Brooke]

Tis the season to be healthy.

[Nicole]

For health. For FA la la la la. Indeed.

[Brooke]

Thank you.

[Nicole]

It was amazing, obviously, but also very, very smart. Her sister Nikki says she's good to people, which I just loved.

[Brooke]

I mean, she just was like a kind, sweet lady who came to America with nothing and like, made like a fucking kick ass life for herself.

[Nicole]

Right. And her niece is saying that Ha put all of her hope in Anita.

[Brooke]

Because of which can be a little dicey, you know what I mean?

[Nicole]

But they were very close. It was the two of them against the world. And how could it not be?

[Brooke]

Right? Yes.

[Nicole]

So Ice t calls her Ms. Ha. Before we know that, everyone called her Ms. Ha and she was known as Ms. Ha. You know, she's like a celebrity. But I was like, ice, what's with the familiarity? Oh, wait, yeah. He was right to do it.

[Brooke]

Well, we learned that they settle in Westminster, California. It's a suburb of Orange County.

[Nicole]

It was hard for her. My aunt was here living as a single mom and she didn't have any money.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I mean, she came here with nothing and she made a name for herself.

[Nicole]

My aunt Ha was a fortune teller, and she's a very famous one.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I know it sounds strange to every other culture out there, but fortune telling in the Vietnamese community can be big business.

[Brooke]

She was a fortune teller also.

[Nicole]

Where they settled down, it was a huge Vietnamese population.

[Brooke]

They actually refer to it as a, as like a resettlement. Like it was a welcoming area for people who were like, living in Vietnam, fleeing communism were coming to this area of the United States. So there was a big community there.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And we're told that was a, quote, very famous fortune teller. And everyone needs to. Because I feel like they think that the story is going to be discounted when you hear that.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

Ignorant people would do that.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

But we're told that this is a very big and legitimate business in the Vietnamese community. And she was famous.

[Brooke]

And Lena, our journalist, is saying, like, I saw her ads all the time. Like, I would see him on the newspapers, in the magazine.

[Nicole]

Even if you didn't go see her.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

This is when she Sundays, everyone knows Ms. Ha. I'm like, okay, ice.

[Brooke]

Yeah. And also I see I please iced.

[Nicole]

Tea and iced tea only 100. Sorry. I should not shorten it to ice these days.

[Brooke]

Yeah. Yeah. Bad Lena is saying that she was.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Such a popular fortune teller that there were clients who would fly in from out of state and would pay upwards of 10, $15,000 to get their fortune told. So she earned a very good living doing that. And it wasn't just fortune telling. But H.A. smith was known to be able to put spells on people. Probably the most popular were love spells.

[Brooke]

And she did spells. Especially love spells. Well, okay, Ryan Philippe, you're in trouble, girl.

[Nicole]

You know what? But this is a very dangerous business.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

And so repeat customers, a lot of people trusted her. They paid a lot of money on a regular basis. It was one of those things where, like, she was the only person you saw.

[Brooke]

Do you believe in love spells?

[Nicole]

No.

[Brooke]

Okay. Okay. All right. I wasn't expecting quite a direct answer.

[Nicole]

No, no, no.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

That's not my thing. But I don't not believe that Ms. Ha is very good at what she did 100%.

[Brooke]

But she's making all this money, and like everyone's saying she had repeat business year after year. All the money she was making, she was putting towards a better life for her daughter.

[Nicole]

She did it.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

This is what she wanted. She wanted to.

[Brooke]

She walked 500 miles to the Cambodian jungle with her daughter on her shoulder.

[Nicole]

Like, she built this amazing life, not just for her, but for Anita. Like, she did exactly what she set out to do, which is incredible.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

So Anita is now in college. She's at UCLA Law School.

[Brooke]

Unbelievable.

[Nicole]

Nothing to sneeze at.

[Brooke]

Nothing to sneeze at.

[Nicole]

Have you ever sneezed at anything?

[Brooke]

I'm sure a weaponized weapon.

[Nicole]

Steve. Like what Steve said, you know what?

[Brooke]

I have to be on the lookout for that.

[Nicole]

You don't sneeze right into your.

[Brooke]

I do now it's a very New York thing to sneeze into your elbow. Yeah, yeah, but I do that now. Yeah.

[Nicole]

Anyway, everything is going great until April.

[Brooke]

22, 2005 at 10:14pm when Westminster Police get a call. A 911 call.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Right now it's just someone calls 911.

[Brooke]

Yeah. And this guy showed up at the house, knocks on the door several times, calls Ms. Ha and Anita on their cell phones. Nobody answers.

[Nicole]

Well, he showed up because he hadn't seen them in a few days.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

So he's like, I haven't seen from them. They're not answering my calls. Let me go to the house. No answer there. Calls again, no answer. They're. This person's panicking.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Westminster police show up to Hosmith's home to do a welfare check. Police officers break down the door and get inside and are shocked by what they see.

[Detective]

They searched the location and eventually came across the bodies of two deceased females.

[Investigator]

One victim was 52 year old Hoss Smith. The second victim appeared to be her 23 year old daughter, Anita Vo.

[Brooke]

Both dead.

[Nicole]

And they are shocked at what they see.

[Brooke]

I mean it's kind of wild. Like, you know, they do a recreation of it, but it's like red lights and red candles and it's like very spooky in there. They're saying.

[Nicole]

Because they say like the house is in complete disarray, which is an understatement. The house is a mess.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

But it's also a really cool house. A lot of statues, a lot of shrines, like.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Altars, candles, like, I mean, of course she did her work out of her home, which is also very dangerous.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

When you're in this line of work, which I'll get into in a little bit. When, when people are investing.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

Their hopes and dreams and money into. It's dangerous.

[Brooke]

I mean, $15,000 for a love potion. It better work. It better be. Patrick Hines, Tipton Phillip by the end of 2026, this is what I'm saying, you know what I mean?

[Nicole]

But I thought the house looks very cool. Not now, but like the decor in.

[Brooke]

General, but like the house has been ransacked. They say there's multiple shrines to Asian deities. Anita, the daughter, is found first. She's on her back. Her face and hands are covered in white paint. There's a black cloth over her face. So whoever the killer was put the cloth over her face, then poured white paint all over that.

[Nicole]

It's really weird. The cops are. Have never seen that before. They don't really know what to make of it?

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

And Ha police notice that Hamas Mahdi seemingly arranged in a very strange position. She's hunched over, almost like she's bowing with her hands outstretched like this, and one of her middle fingers is extended. And they don't know if this is some kind of a message. It's bizarre at the very least, and something they've never seen before.

[Nicole]

And just like Anita Ha had white paint poured over her face and hands.

[Brooke]

And the investigators are just like, they've never seen anything like this before. They're like, is this the occult? Is this religion? Is this just somebody trying to throw us off and make it look fucking weird in here?

[Nicole]

Right. And then more of what they find at the scene. Blood was mixed into the white paint. Anita and ha both had 15 to 20 knife wounds each.

[Brooke]

I mean, it was a really violent, brutal attack in which both victims suffered severely.

[Nicole]

And so they're like, is this personal?

[Brooke]

They think it must be that, like, that's the only. Like, why else would you stab somebody 15 to 20 times?

[Nicole]

And then in an almost unbelievable twist, the cops find. Find two bloody knives in the kitchen in a plastic bag. So it also looks like the knives were washed, but not. Well, yeah, because there's clearly blood on the knives and. Which is weird because.

[Brooke]

Come on. Right.

[Nicole]

Why would the murder weapons be left at the scene?

[Brooke]

I mean, it looks like somebody tried to clean it up. It looked like they tried to clean it up and then left the knives there at the murder scene.

[Nicole]

But that's where the knives came from.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

So that's. That's the other thing where the cops are, like, what they came from in the house. They were the butcher block, the knife block. And it's like, wait.

[Investigator]

Told us that this was an impromptu type of killing. So that led us to believe that our suspects may have even been invited into the home.

[Nicole]

So were these people welcomed into the home because there's no breaking and entering. Like, if they came from the house, was this an impromptu thing and the person just used a weapon that they found in the house?

[Brooke]

And like, you're saying, like, she worked from home. She was do. Working in a field that, like, has a. A very emotionally charged field.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

The murder weapons came from within the house. It looks. It's looking like that to me.

[Nicole]

And then there's a bloody footprint on the bath mat in bathroom, plus water and blood in the bathtub. So, like, you're saying, like, someone tried to clean up and take a shower and then did a terrible job and left a bloody footprint to Which I say stay stupid and stay sloppy.

[Brooke]

I mean, which means that they. They took the shower after the murder. Can you imagine that?

[Nicole]

I know. Like. Like leaving the scene behind and, like going into the next room to take a shower.

[Brooke]

Exactly. Like, there's like a bloody, gory murder scene and, like, you're going to take a shower. Like, unbelievable. Yeah.

Girl, Chewy is back. Look, we've both been using the Chewy for years. Tell us what you love.

[Nicole]

Okay, so look, I love ch all year round, but now especially, we're going to talk about Chewy Claws.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

So from November 4th to December 24th, you can share your pet's [e-mail] Chewy Claws. And it might become real for your pet, but it helps other pets, too.

[Brooke]

I'm obsessed.

[Nicole]

So every time you put in a wish, it triggers a donation of five meals to shelters and rescues across the country. And if you do it through the Chewy app, which I did, they'll double the donation. So that's 10.

[Brooke]

And get this, shelters and rescues can join in on the joy by submitting their own wish to list to Chewy Claws. Their community can find their wish list and donate items directly to them.

[Nicole]

I love Chewy so much, I have to say. I have, like 11 auto shifts for Fiona. Like, they're just so good. They're so thoughtful. And this Chewy Claws thing is exactly why I love them. Like, they're just always thinking about how they can help animals.

[Brooke]

Dog people are such good people.

[Nicole]

We love everybody, fam.

[Brooke]

Every pet deserves a wish come true. Send your pet's wish to chewy.com chewy claws and it might become a reality.

[Nicole]

Plus, your wish means Chewy will donate. Donate 5 meals to pets in need. Do it just for that alone.

[Brooke]

Tis the season.

[Nicole]

And then when you put it in, they, like, send you a little image that looks like your pup wrote out, like, a letter to Santa. I mean, Chewy Claws.

[Brooke]

We love Chewy Chewy Claws.

[Nicole]

So so far we have blood on the knives, possibly the killer's blood, maybe fingerprints on the knives, the bloody footprint. And all of that's going to go to the lab while the cops keep investigating the crime scene. And remember, the house is a mess, right?

[Brooke]

Like, they think it's a robbery. It's been completely trashed and ransacked. Both perf had been gone through. Credit cards and IDs had been taken from both Anita and Ha.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

And the cops are like, please use the credit cards. Please use the credit cards. Please use the credit cards.

[Nicole]

Hold tight.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Suspect Number one is Dung. That's Anita's boyfriend. He's the one who called the cops.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

So that 911 call where it's like, I haven't heard from Anita, he's basically saying, I haven't heard from my girlfriend and her mom. So I went to the house, and.

[Brooke]

I kind of love this story. Like, his story was that he stopped by earlier in the day to leave coffee and sandwiches for hot and Anita. Now, we're going to learn later that, ha, the mom does not like this guy, but he still brought food and coffee for the mom and for the girlfriend, which I love.

[Nicole]

It's. This is interesting. So, yeah, we'll get to that. And when he came back later, he.

[Detective]

Came by later that night, saw that the same items were still on the porch where he had left it, and also noticed that the family pet, the small little dog, was out in the backyard, which he thought was highly unusual because the dog's never out by himself.

[Brooke]

And the dog was outside, which he was like. Was a major red flag.

[Nicole]

And so, like, this is all weird. He starts pounding on the door and.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Then he called the dog police also. No lower third for the dog is one thing.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

I don't condone it. Whatever. Okay. But not even saying the dog's name out loud when asked about the dog.

[Brooke]

I know, I know.

[Nicole]

Unacceptable.

[Brooke]

I couldn't agree more.

[Nicole]

I'm hearing a lot of the dog. Really? What's their name?

[Brooke]

You're right. Should we just name the dog?

[Nicole]

Are they okay?

[Brooke]

Jake.

[Nicole]

Jake? Is Jake okay?

[Brooke]

Jake. All right.

[Nicole]

Okay, Jake. A girl.

[Brooke]

Justice for Jake.

[Nicole]

I mean, please. Are they okay? So Anita and Dong were together six years, but they recently had a falling out, and Anita was sure that Dong had cheated on her, and she ended the relationship. And so Dung is trying to get her back now. It's a little vague here.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

I don't know if you clock this or not or, like, what your thoughts are on this, because even in the vagueness, is the show leaning towards the side that he did cheat on her?

[Brooke]

I couldn't really tell. It was like they've been together for six years. They broke up because she thought he was cheating, but he's trying to get her back, but she's not that into it. But more.

[Nicole]

Is she not into it because he actually cheated? We don't know.

[Brooke]

We don't know. And he. The more she didn't want him back, the more obsessive he became. Good man. Which is like, making him look like. Remember, he's also, like, the Last one to have been in contact with these people. He's the reporting party.

[Nicole]

But also before that, he didn't get along with Anita's mom.

[Detective]

Ha.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The mom didn't approve of the boyfriend. She apparently had caught them in bed one day and screamed, kicked him out of the house. Pretty much forbade him from seeing her daughter again.

[Investigator]

That didn't slow him down, though. He was very much still in love with Anita and still pursued her against Ha's wishes.

[Nicole]

She kicked Dung out of the house. He was said he was never allowed to see her daughter again. Now, I want to stop on this for a second.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

I understand. As best I can.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

That walking in on your daughter in bed with someone is never a good situation.

[Brooke]

She's an adult.

[Nicole]

She's in law school. However.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

Having said that.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

She's also a grown woman who's in law school and can do so. Is that horrifying and traumatizing for everyone involved?

[Brooke]

I'm sure. Of course. Course.

[Nicole]

But to then, like, ban. It's just. It's a. It feels like a lot.

[Brooke]

Yeah. He's looking like the guy kind of.

[Nicole]

At the moment because he's seemingly, as the story is being told to us, he's just not listening.

[Brooke]

Right.

[Nicole]

Is how it's being presented.

[Brooke]

And they describe him as obsessive. And whenever you hear that, like, he's obsessive, she doesn't want him back. The mom doesn't like him.

[Nicole]

Red flags all over the place.

[Brooke]

He's the last person that, like the reporting party.

[Nicole]

And was he calling to, like, get the heat off his back, like, what's going on?

[Brooke]

Right. And we learned that, like, he. His alibi for where he was during, like, the time that the murder would have taken place was that he was at work. So the cops are going to check his alibi, and we're gonna move on to something else while they do that.

[Nicole]

Right. Because they're looking. This white paint is so weird to them. They've never seen anything like it. They're trying to look at other cases or asking the FBI, like, have you seen this white paint thing?

[Brooke]

This was wild. We are told that they call the FBI to be like, can you give us a list of all your murder cases involving white paint? They're like, not a one girl.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

No, not a one. In American history has there ever been white paint involved in a murder ever? Not once.

[Nicole]

They're like, what's her problem?

[Brooke]

I don't totally. Did you hear what they asked me? White paint. What?

[Nicole]

So guess what? Dung's alibi checks out. He really was at work. He was very, very infatuated with Anita, and he was very strongly pursuing her. But he was also at work.

[Brooke]

But, like, I also love the cops. Like, well, his alibi checks out. Unless he's got a friend at work lying for him, which is always possible.

[Nicole]

So we'll downgrade him from suspect to now person of interest. Yeah, they don't want to rule him out 100%. And, you know, we're waiting on the DNA. So this could all change when the DNA comes back.

[Brooke]

Exactly.

[Nicole]

But here's something interesting.

[Narrator/Reporter]

So, years earlier, H.A. smith was the victim of a brutal home invasion robbery.

[Detective]

The loss in that case was over $100,000.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Asian gang members came in and they roughed her up, robbed her, and she was able to identify him. However, there wasn't enough evidence to convict these robbers. So could it have been those Asian gang members coming back to finish the job?

[Brooke]

She was able to identify them, but they weren't able to, like, get them on this. Right. So, like, the question is, is this. This gang coming back to, like, finish the job?

[Nicole]

Yeah. Like, is this related? What's going on? So what' weird, though, is that I.

[Brooke]

Love this so much.

[Nicole]

They found two really, really important things at the crime scene. 1, $64,000 in cash hidden in a vacuum.

[Brooke]

Take a lesson, everyone. I've always been saying, bury your money in your front yard. No, put it in your vacuum. I'm going to say that again. Put it in your vacuum.

[Nicole]

Your vacuum.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Receipts, Remember? Receipts. Gate.

[Brooke]

Totally.

[Nicole]

And jewelry hidden in the coffee pot in the kitchen.

[Brooke]

I love it. Except I desperately need my coffee pot. I would need a second one. But I love the jewelry. It's very like Blanche from the Golden Girls. Like, hiding the jewelry in the freezer.

[Nicole]

Totally. But also, we. Because the house was a total, complete mess.

[Brooke]

Well, but that's what they're saying. So, like, maybe the people who, like, who burgled them were, like, newbies, or.

[Nicole]

It looks like they didn't leave any stone unturned, and yet they left $64,000 in cash and jewelry behind. Like, what's going on?

[Brooke]

I'm blaming that on the robbers. Like, who's gonna think they'll look in the vacuum cleaner?

[Nicole]

Right.

[Brooke]

Would you. You know what I mean?

[Nicole]

Now I will.

[Brooke]

I know. Get the vacuum safe.

[Nicole]

Right. Like, but it's. You could. It's like one of those old ones where it's like the.

[Brooke]

Totally.

[Nicole]

Every. Everyone has a robot vacuum now.

[Brooke]

Yeah, but when they were, like, maybe they were amateur Robbers. I'm like, what? Like, who's looking at the vacuum cleaner?

[Nicole]

Because they're like, was this a right? They're just asking questions because the DNA is not back. The FBI hung up on them about the white paint thing. They have no idea what they're doing.

[Brooke]

It tells you how smart Ms. Ha was, you know, when they'll never look at the vacuum cleaner in the coffee filter. You know, she nailed it.

[Nicole]

And all these questions. Enter the handyman.

[Narrator/Reporter]

A handyman comes up to them at the home and asks what's going on. He's really intrigued about what has happened.

[Investigator]

The fact that he sort of appeared out of nowhere certainly drew our suspicion.

[Narrator/Reporter]

It's not unlikely for killers to come back to the scene of the crime. And as they're talking to this handyman, they look down and they notice he's got white paint on his shoes.

[Nicole]

It's almost as if, poof, he just appeared out of thin air with white paint all over his boots.

[Brooke]

And it's one of those things where, like, is he inserting himself into this, as they are wont to do?

[Nicole]

And now also, though, isn't, like, the paint on the boots kind of like the uniform for these handymen?

[Brooke]

Well, he's got paint on the boot and he's got a cut on his hand.

[Nicole]

And they're, like, so totally crazy for those two things to happen.

[Brooke]

No. Like, we also learned, though, that he did have a spare key to the house, so he could have let himself in rather easily.

[Nicole]

And it's like the fresh cut that was bandaged that maybe happened last night during a brutal attack.

[Brooke]

And the detectives think that the killer was probably known by the victim. So, like, maybe he got in, you know?

[Nicole]

Not good. The cops talk to the handyman, and, man, he has an answer for everything.

[Brooke]

I know.

[Nicole]

And the answers are, basically, I'm a handyman. They're like, what's with the cut? He's like, I'm a handyman.

[Brooke]

What about the paintyman?

[Nicole]

Yeah, like, white paint is the most common thing I need for repairs. Like, what do you want?

[Brooke]

Yeah, totally.

[Nicole]

And they're just like, oh, well, that does make sense. That does.

[Brooke]

That does track. It tracks more than the boyfriend who said he was at work, even though his alibi totally checks out.

[Nicole]

Right. What's going on? A week later, the lab results.

[Brooke]

Sorry. You made me laugh so hard. I got to find my place in the notes again. Sorry.

Girl. Zbiotics. Pre alcohol probiotic is back. It's the season of holiday parties. You're gonna want to get in on this.

[Nicole]

So here's what it's all about. Zbiotics Pre alcohol probiotic drink is the world's genetically engineered probiotic.

[Brooke]

Yeah. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. People ask me all the time if it really works and it does because.

[Nicole]

Here'S how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut.

[Brooke]

Yeah. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough days after drinking.

[Nicole]

Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down.

[Brooke]

So just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. I love it.

[Nicole]

Yeah, it's. You like pass it out at parties at your house.

[Brooke]

We are, we're having our big holiday party in like two weeks. We're putting out a big bowl of it for the first thing that people to grab when they walk in.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And Mike and I are going on vacation at the end of the year and it's so easy to drink too much on vacation. So we're absolutely. Bring our zbiotics.

[Brooke]

We love it. Fam. Make the most of every toast this holiday season. Just don't forget to bring pre alcohol along for the ride.

[Nicole]

Go to ZBiotics.com TCO to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use TCO at checkout.

[Brooke]

ZBiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked.

[Nicole]

Remember to head to ZBiotics.com TCO and use code TCO at checkout for 15% off.

[Brooke]

We love you, Z by OT.

[Nicole]

Yeah, we're like too busy to be like calling out.

[Brooke]

We gotta be raring to go, girl. Drip drop is back. Look, when I'm hydrated and this is something I'm really focusing on right now, everything just works but my energy, my mood, my focus, I'm less hungry.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And so Drip drop is doctor Developed proven fast hydration.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

So it has a precise ratio of electrolytes and glucose for rapid absorption and it's delivers three times the electrolytes and half the sugar of leading sports drinks.

[Brooke]

And get this, it's science backed formula is trusted by firefighters, medical professionals and over 90% of top college pro athlete teams.

[Nicole]

And two podcasters, you know, and podcasters, you know, because it's engineered to rehydrate you faster and more Effectively than water alone. So a lot of people are like, oh, water's boring.

[Brooke]

And I know you're thinking it's probably full of sugar. Absolutely not. There are 16 original flavors, and eight of them have zero sugar options. And it fits seamlessly into your routine. It's like a morning thing or a post workout thing or midday slump thing.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And also like a vacation thing.

[Brooke]

Oh, yeah.

[Nicole]

I definitely just stocked up because Mike and I are going away in a few weeks. And you forget about that. I'm on vacation.

[Brooke]

You really do. You're out in the. You're baking in the sun.

[Nicole]

You're having a boost. I need 100 SPF and I need my Drip Drop.

[Brooke]

And you're nailed.

[Nicole]

That's how I vacation fam.

[Brooke]

Right now, Drip Drop is offering our podcast listeners 20% off.

[Nicole]

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[Brooke]

That's dripdrop.com promo code TCO.

[Nicole]

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[Brooke]

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[Nicole]

Hydration. Need I say more?

[Brooke]

Exactly.

[Nicole]

So they, like, test the boots, the handyman's boots, because they're like. Yeah. You say you're a handyman.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

You dress like a handyman.

[Nicole]

I've never.

[Brooke]

You walk like a handyman.

[Nicole]

I've never seen, like, how weird would that be if the, you're like, handyman shows up and their boots are clean?

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

I'd be like, are you a handyman?

[Brooke]

No cuts on his hand. You can't do this job. You're not cut out for this line of work.

[Nicole]

I don't like this.

[Brooke]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Nicole]

So they test the boots. It's not the paint from the murder scene. So the handyman's cleared back to having zero leads. Perfect.

[Brooke]

Yeah. They get a DNA profile from one of the knives. It doesn't match anyone in the system.

[Nicole]

Or any of our suspects. Or, like, not the boyfriend, not the handyman. No one in the database. Like, nothing.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Their next step was to look at Ms. Ha's clients, and that was a task because she had some, like, 250 clients. Did she have any enemies on that list who wanted to kill her?

[Expert/Analyst]

Her Ha was operating out of her house. You know, she was having customers come in and out at all times of the day, so it really could be anyone at any time.

[Brooke]

And now they try to look at Ms. Ha's clients, but she's got 250 of them. 250 of 15 grand a pop.

[Nicole]

I know. Well, this is where I want to slow down on this. Like, it's a very dangerous business. Like, I've known tarot readers who've been stalked by clients.

[Brooke]

I thought you said Tara read. I was like, you what? How is she involved in this? Leave it to her. Yeah, you know.

[Nicole]

No, no, no. But tarot readers who have been, like, stalked by abusive or ex husbands because, like, they don't know how tower works. But also, like, this can just be scary. And, like, especially when you operate this kind of business from your home.

[Brooke]

I mean, you're like, $15,000 for a love spell. And Ryan Philippe is not, like, proposing on a bend any. Like, I'm making a joke, but I'm being serious. Like, people who believe in that stuff take it really fudgeing seriously.

[Nicole]

Right. And so it can be scary.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

And it's a lot of money. Yes, it's a lot of money, and it's cash.

[Brooke]

But how do you investigate 250 people? Like, they're doing the best they can, but they're like, it could be anybody.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Until.

[Brooke]

Oh, my God.

[Nicole]

Ring, ring.

[Brooke]

It's the bank calling these fucking morons.

[Nicole]

The cops are like, oh, my God. Hoping against hope. Fingers crossed. Like, yes, please, please use the credit cards. They're probably not going to, but please, please, please.

[Brooke]

Not only are they using them, they're using it at Target. And we see the video of these idiots using the credit cards at Target. It's an Asian man, an Asian woman.

[Nicole]

The cops are like, it just looked like two folks out on a shopping day. I'm like. I'm like, really? Because the woman keeps looking over her shoulder like the SWAT team is going to tackle her any.

[Brooke]

I'm telling you, we need a precinct in America. If you're in the. If you're in the aisle buying the zip ties and the bleach and the. I'm just saying. You're right. Okay, fine. But, like, if you got people walking around a Walmart where they're, like, looking over their shoulder every five seconds, jumpy. You know what I mean?

[Nicole]

But, like, the footage is great, I guess. But they don't know who these people are.

[Brooke]

They don't know who they are until.

[Expert/Analyst]

A couple of weeks later, we get pa's credit card being used in Georgia to purchase airline tickets to Orange County, California. The most surprising aspect of that transaction was the fact that the airline tickets were purchased in the name of H.A. smith and Anita Vaugh. We had arranged for two of our detectives to fly to Orange county. And so they were riding in the Seats behind our possible suspects.

[Brooke]

So they, like, incognito, go and get on the plane and just follow these people.

[Nicole]

Because the tickets are in the names of the victims.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

Like, oh, my God.

[Brooke]

I know. Like, how dumb. They were also saying that, like, the purchases on the credit cards were getting bigger and bigger the more they were doing them. And not getting busted is also great.

[Nicole]

Because at the very least, we have them on theft and fraud. And, like, keep racking that up. Like, we can totally. They got Al Capone on tax evasion or whatever. Like, keep it up.

[Brooke]

Right? And, like, that's going to come to an end. It's like, you're going to not get away with that forever.

[Nicole]

They're using. They're buying plane tickets in the victim's names and using crap.

[Brooke]

Like, it's unbelievable.

[Nicole]

So I can't believe they're on that exact same flight. They have eyes on this broadest. So they notice. They're, like, looking around, trying to play it cool, and they notice. They're like, I think that's her.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

In row A.

[Brooke]

Because they got all those pictures from Target.

[Nicole]

Right. And also, can't they just say, like, the seat numbers on the flight.

[Brooke]

Right, right, exactly.

[Nicole]

But they all take the same flight back. And then they're, like, tailing her and, quote, her associates for three days, they.

[Brooke]

Follow her to check into a hotel. Now, at the hotel, she uses her real name. Now they use their police badges to go to the front desk lady and be like, what's that lady's name who just checked in?

[Nicole]

Tanya Nelson.

[Brooke]

Tanya Nelson. Now they're like, who's Tanya Nelson? We've never heard this name before. Brandon of the investigation. They go, they arrest her. At the hotel, in the room, we.

[Expert/Analyst]

Located some luggage that we believed had been taken from ha's residence. We located additional credit cards belonging to our victims. She no longer was just a fraud suspect. She was our homicide suspect.

[Brooke]

She was our homicide suspect.

[Nicole]

So they haul her down to the station, and they talk to her for two seconds, and she's like, yeah, lawyer.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

And the cops are like, cool, you're under arrest. However, the cops keep talking to her, which they should not be doing.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

And they keep trying to get her to confess. And we hear her, and they're like, did you or did you not hear me say lawyer? Like, this isn't gonna happen, girl. And I hate this woman. I know, but she's like, I said the magic word. You cannot be speaking to me right now. She goes, I know my rights.

[Brooke]

Yeah, but they arrest her. Anyway, on the credit card and identity theft charges. And they learn about her. They learn that she lives in Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina. And they go there. The detectives get on a red eye. They go there to search her home, search her business. They find 30 fake credit cards in Anita and has names and 20 different letters to financial institutions attempting to change account holder information to Tanya. Now, I don't really understand what this is.

[Nicole]

So what she's doing is. I took a screenshot. So what she's doing is, I'm not sure if this works, which is why maybe she has 20. She's like, I'll just throw all the pain at the wall and, like, see what sticks. But she's writing to, like, American Express, right? Saying, to whom it may concern, I am writing this letter to inform you of my new address. Please send my statements to.

[Brooke]

And. But what is she trying to do with them?

[Nicole]

Like, proof of where you live so that you can change all the account information to her.

[Brooke]

But, like, it feels like she's just taking on the credit card.

[Nicole]

She's trying to take over the accounts. Not the credit cards, the accounts, the bank accounts. So she's writing all these letters, being like, maybe this one will. Of course. It's like, I'm writing this letter to inform you of my new address. Space, period space. It's, like, riddled with typos. But she's being direct. And I guess she's like, I wonder if this will work. I don't know. And it's like, no, they're not just going to be like, we got this letter. Everyone transfer over the accounts. No, you have to go in person.

[Brooke]

But also, while they're searching her house, they find a calendar.

[Investigator]

And we look at the date that both our victims were murdered, and we see that in the note portion, it says, horrible sin. It was like, are you kidding me? They put it on their calendar. We just looked at each other in disbelief. We felt at that point that she's definitely connected to our homicide in Orange County.

[Brooke]

This woman Tanya, had written on the calendar, quote, horrible sin.

[Nicole]

Horrible sin.

[Brooke]

She wrote it and we see it.

[Nicole]

This is not the first time we've seen this. You know, people writing their horrible things on a calendar.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Also this. She's, like, packed. She has, like, 10 things every single day of this calendar. It's more like a ledger. Like, her handwriting is incredibly hard to read, but some of it is, like, different accounts and numbers. It's more than just a calendar.

[Brooke]

Well, we're going to learn. Like, this lady is severely mentally unwell.

[Nicole]

She also wrote on one of them on the 10th, lost wallet, sad face. Oh, they highlighted it, and I'm like, is she saying that she lost a wallet?

[Brooke]

Oh, my God.

[Nicole]

What's sad face? Does that mean it's real?

[Narrator/Reporter]

I don't.

[Nicole]

But it's still not a confession. They're like, we have to keep investigating, but we have her on all the.

[Brooke]

Fraud, so they've got it for now. Now they find a boarding pass in the name of a guy named Philippe Zamora. And he had traveled with Tanya to Orange county and, like, just in the days before the murder.

[Nicole]

He's the guy in the video at Target.

[Brooke]

Exact. Exactly. So he lives super close to Tanya in North Carolina. So they go to see this guy.

[Nicole]

They'Re like, what is your deal?

[Brooke]

Well, they describe him as, like, meek and sort of timid. But when they say they're from Orange county, where he knows he was, like, just involved in these murders, he sort of, like, perks up a little bit.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And they're like, he's not really saying much, but when he does, he's not making any sense. Like, just the discrepancies in his story. Like, the story's full of holes. Timeline doesn't add up.

[Brooke]

They bring him in, and literally, they ask him. They're like, where were you on the 22nd? He's like, in Orange County. Then he's like, why did you kill her? And he's like, I didn't kill her. Why did you kill her? Okay, here's why I killed her. Well, he just, like, admits to it, like, openly.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Philippe Zamora was married with children, but he was also living a double life as a homosexual. We learned from Philip Zamora's interview that Tanya Nelson was running an escort service out of her business in North Carolina. Philip became a client of hers, and.

[Detective]

That was a side that I think allowed Tanya to kind of have control over him.

[Brooke]

Tanya was running an escort business in North Carolina, and she was pairing Philip up with men.

[Nicole]

So this Tanya person has a very, very, very, very, very big secret about this guy. And I'm like, okay, great. What does that have to do with Hot and Anita?

[Brooke]

Right?

[Nicole]

Why are we here, not in California? Like, what's the connection?

[Brooke]

This is so convoluted and absolutely batshit crazy.

[Nicole]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

So, Tanya, talk about one bad apple spoiling the banana.

[Nicole]

The whole banana.

[Brooke]

You know what I mean?

[Nicole]

Goddamn thing.

[Brooke]

Girl ritual is back. Look, let's be honest. Our diets aren't always perfect. They're not always the most balanced this time of year. Girl, yeah.

[Nicole]

Everyone's got a lot going on, truly. So that's why we have Ritual, which is the obsessively researched multivitamin.

[Brooke]

Now get this. They're essential for women 18/ multi contains nine key nutrients in two delayed release capsules designed for optimal absorption per day. Absorption is how you say it.

[Nicole]

Absorption.

[Brooke]

There, you nailed it.

[Nicole]

See, it's also designed to be gentle on the stomach. It's a minty essence. It's like a minty essence in bottle. And you can take it like you don't have to be on a full stomach. You can take it whenever and listen.

[Brooke]

They love the science. Ritual even conducted a university led clinical trial for their essential for women 18 plus multivitamin to assess its efficacy. And let's talk about the results here.

[Nicole]

I would love to.

[Brooke]

It increased vitamin D levels by 43% and omega 3 DHA levels by 41% in just 12 weeks.

[Nicole]

Yeah. And rituals third party tested for heavy metals and clean label project certified. So you can absolutely trust what you're putting in your body.

[Brooke]

They've always been like that. It's the traceable and transparent as they used to say.

[Nicole]

The multivitamins are vegan, non GMO project certified gluten and major allergen free and made traceable. We love it.

[Brooke]

So fam. Instead of striving for perfect health, nobody's perfect aim for supporting foundational health.

[Nicole]

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[Brooke]

Month at ritual.com/tco that's ritual.com/tco for 25% off your first month.

[Nicole]

It's minty fresh. That's all I'm saying.

[Brooke]

I know, right?

[Nicole]

Quick reminder.

[Brooke]

My dragon.

[Nicole]

So Tanya threatens to expose this Philippe.

[Brooke]

Guy as being gay if he didn't.

[Nicole]

Go to Hosmith's house and and kill her and her daughter Anita. Because Tanya paid H.A. smith a lot of money over the years because her, her love life was, in a word, a fucking mess.

[Brooke]

She's in love with her brother in law. She's having an affair with her brother in law. He tries to break it off. She doesn't want to break it off. He moves to North Carolina. She follows him to North Carolina. She then goes back to California to see Ms. Ha to get her to do a love spell.

[Nicole]

Wait, she broke into his home and pistol whipped him.

[Brooke]

Oh wait, I forgot about that.

[Nicole]

Drove right by that.

[Brooke]

She drove into his house, she fell.

[Nicole]

And I'm like, he's married to your sister.

[Brooke]

Probably most likely that's the only other.

[Nicole]

Way she could be a brother in Law, right?

[Brooke]

Yes. Or. Yeah, I can't do the math on that, but yes.

[Nicole]

Or her brother, whatever.

[Brooke]

I know the math gets really convoluted.

[Nicole]

The guy moved to North Carolina to get away from her. She follows him, breaks into his house and pistol whips him.

[Brooke]

Pistol whips him?

[Nicole]

Get the fucking message, lady?

[Brooke]

She then goes to California.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Tanya Nelson then goes to miss and wants a love spell put on the brother in law so that he would get back together with her.

[Detective]

We found evidence that Ha explains to Tanya that she couldn't do it. And so she denied that request.

[Narrator/Reporter]

That sends Tonya into a rage.

[Nicole]

Ms. Haas says no.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

And there's evidence of it. Good for her. Because her then Ms. Haas family's here to say, excuse me. Like she had standards and boundaries and morals, and if she felt that something wasn't right, she wasn't gonna do it. She doesn't care how much moral money it was going to be. So this sends Tanya into a rage. Could you see why maybe the brother in law wanted to break this up?

[Brooke]

Tanya does not seem like a. Like a barrel of laughs. No, no, no.

[Nicole]

So this is the motive that she's going to now rob and kill Ms. Ha? She's going to send this Philip guy to do it for free and blackmail him?

[Brooke]

Yes. I mean, like she just wants to kill her for revenge.

[Nicole]

Right.

[Brooke]

So he admits to all of this and we get the story of like what they think happened on April 21st. So April 21st, Tanya and Philippe go to Ms. Ha's house to meet with her. Like, ostensibly Tanya's Gonn reading or whatever from Ms. Ha.

[Nicole]

And Toddy's acting like everything's fine, like everything's fine. Even though she left the house not that long ago. In a rage.

[Brooke]

In a rage.

[Nicole]

Ms. Hob wouldn't do the love spell. Now she's like, everything's.

[Brooke]

Everything's good. Just want another reading.

[Nicole]

Right. Cooler heads prevail.

[Brooke]

Yep.

[Nicole]

Something Tanya has never even heard of.

[Brooke]

Here's 15 grand.

[Nicole]

Right?

[Brooke]

You know what I mean?

[Nicole]

In cash.

[Brooke]

In cash.

[Nicole]

Put in your vacuum. Here's 15 grand for the vacuum.

[Brooke]

Put in your vacuum.

[Nicole]

Put in your vacuum. Don't spend it all in one place.

[Brooke]

Oh my God.

[Nicole]

Oh my God.

[Brooke]

So Tanya and Ms. Hawk come back from the back. Basically, Tanya says to Philippe, like it's.

[Expert/Analyst]

Then Tanya verbally tells Zamora to grab a knife. That caught the attention of Ha, who immediately began yelling. At that point, Philippe says he grabbed a knife and began stabbing her. Anita, hearing the commotion and the screams, came running out of a Bedroom. Phillipe had told us that they had no idea that she was home.

[Brooke]

They didn't know she was home. So then Tanya grabs a knife out of the butcher block and tracks down Anita and then kills her.

[Nicole]

So Tanya starts attacking Anita. Philippe keeps attacking.

[Brooke]

Hot.

[Nicole]

This is, like, horrifying.

[Brooke]

It's horrible.

[Nicole]

After the murders, they ransacked the place.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Didn't look in the vacuum, did you?

[Brooke]

Did not look. Or the coffee filter.

[Nicole]

Oh, is. Am I going to sneeze?

[Brooke]

Are you sneezing at the coffee?

[Nicole]

It passed, okay?

[Brooke]

It's gone. Keep me posted.

[Nicole]

So I. I will. Oh, believe me, you'll know it in my elbow pit. So after the murders, they ransack the place. Then Tanya tells Philippe to go get the white pa, and he does. Because all of this is easier than just being gay.

[Brooke]

I know.

Philippe. I'm so sorry. I know it's cultural, and I know, like, I'm not laughing or making fun of you for this, you fucking asshole. Crazy murderer.

[Investigator]

Yeah.

[Brooke]

This is not easier than being gay, girl.

[Nicole]

Like, are you kidding?

[Brooke]

I know. And by the way, like, your secret should not cost anybody else their fucking life. That's not how this works.

[Nicole]

Right, Right. Like, don't make it everyone else's fucking problem. And I understand that sometimes people grow up and it's like, you can't be who you really are. Like, fine, yes.

[Brooke]

But the moment somebody else's life is on the line. Sorry, you got to tell the wife and kids. Like, I can't even believe I have to say this out loud. I'm not trying to be the gay police over here. But you know what? Don't let people die so you can stay in the closet.

[Nicole]

Like, Happy Pride. This isn't going to devastate your wife and kids.

[Brooke]

Right? Exactly.

[Nicole]

So if everyone's going to be devastated anyway, like, did you think you were.

[Brooke]

Going to get away with it, you weird gay guy? No.

[Narrator/Reporter]

No.

[Nicole]

Like, everyone's lives are ruined anyway, Right? According to where. From where Philippe is standing, it's all over.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

You could take the road that doesn't end up in a double murder.

[Brooke]

Two people could still be alive. Yeah.

[Nicole]

Do you know what I mean?

[Brooke]

That lady. Okay, And I am not saying this as a joke. That lady walked through the jungle with her daughter to give her a better life. And this is how they died. To protect your secret.

[Nicole]

Both of you. Tanya, too. You're not getting off easy.

[Brooke]

No. No.

[Nicole]

So we're told that this was used to cover up the forensic evidence, the paint. Except it didn't. You know what so they have these two. No question.

[Investigator]

We had photographs of our suspects using the victim's credit card. We had. We had boarding passes and itineraries putting them here in Orange county during the crime. We had forensic evidence and the weapons at the crime scene.

[Detective]

We were able to figure out who had which knife because we found DNA on the knife handles that came back to our suspects.

[Investigator]

And then we ultimately had the confession of Philippe Zamora because Philippe is confirming.

[Nicole]

Everything about the knives. Things they know, things they didn't know. Tanya took a shower. Thanks. DNA.

[Brooke]

You know what? He's a horrible murderer. I'm going to say thank you for at least telling us the story. Telling us the truth. Exactly.

[Nicole]

He couldn't not tell.

[Brooke]

What do they say? Dead to rights.

[Nicole]

Whatever.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Shut up.

[Nicole]

Not you. These two.

[Brooke]

Yeah, yeah.

[Nicole]

Everything lines up. The evidence is there. DNA, the bloody footprint, the confession, the camera footage, the credit card fraud. I mean, my God, I'm like, you guys are really outlining this first sin on the calendar.

[Brooke]

Exactly.

[Nicole]

So we have these two pieces of.

[Brooke]

Shit, but they're both charged with first degree murder. Philippe gets 27 years to life. Tanya gets the death penalty. Only the second woman ever to be given the death penalty in California.

[Nicole]

Now, look, I don't believe in it. Also not all broken up about this.

[Brooke]

No, absolutely. You know, I've said this on this podcast. Podcast before. I'm not. I'm certainly not a supporter of the death penalty. I'm not sad to see these people taken off the planet.

[Nicole]

No. I don't think it should exist.

[Brooke]

But I'm like, I think we're on the same page.

[Nicole]

I hope our stomach hurts every day.

[Brooke]

Totally so.

[Nicole]

And like, Ha. And Anita's family is like, yeah, they made their fudgeing choices and now we have to live with it. With like this woman.

[Brooke]

Yeah.

[Nicole]

Who was amazing. Both of these women. Anita was in law school by like these amazing women who did all this, who was actually she was like, you know, a lot of people in like cash only businesses that like Ms. Ha could have been like, hell yeah, I'll do that love potion for you.

[Brooke]

Of course.

[Nicole]

And like the fact that she had said, I love that they kept that in because my thing, my take on.

[Brooke]

That is like, that could be like, you have to be so careful with that because people believe it's going to work and those people are desperate. You're spending 15 grand on a love potion.

[Nicole]

Yeah, it doesn't. Or maybe, you know, it's not.

[Brooke]

The money is. But no, I'm just saying in the instance of Getting a lot. That's why you've got to be very picky and choosy about who you're going to do that for. Because if it doesn't work, that's the thing. This is what happens.

[Nicole]

Oh, my God. Can everyone get a goddamn gr?

[Brooke]

And that is in no way blaming the victim. I think Ms. Ha made the very smart choice to not do it for this obviously unhinged woman.

[Nicole]

Also, there isn't a fucking spell in the world.

[Brooke]

Yes.

[Nicole]

That's gonna make you likable.

[Brooke]

Or you not gay.

[Nicole]

Or you not gay.

[Brooke]

God damn it.

[Nicole]

Get grips, all of you.

[Brooke]

I know.

[Nicole]

Get a grip.

[Brooke]

Oh, my God, girl. We did in Ice cold.

[Nicole]

In ice cold blood.

[Brooke]

In Ice Cold Blood.

[Nicole]

Season two episode. Episode five is called Miss Fortune. We hate that name.

[Brooke]

We hate it.

[Nicole]

We hate it.

[Brooke]

Tell them what our. Our next and final bonus episode's gonna be.

[Nicole]

The Lilith Fair thing.

[Brooke]

Building a mystery on Hulu Mystery now, fam. You might not know this about me. I love Sarah McLachlan. I love all the Lilith ladies. But do you know who my favorite is? Paula Cole Pole. You know?

[Nicole]

Do I know your favorite? How you don't take that back. How dare you.

[Brooke]

I know. You're right. Totally unfair. Totally unfair.

[Nicole]

Totally.

[Brooke]

I I. In the Indigo Girl. Charles and Paula Cole. I love them. I love them so much. Paula Cole is so under known. You know, she's got a couple of hit songs.

[Nicole]

Well, like, Dawson, I don't want to wait.

[Brooke]

I don't want to wait. But that album was big. Like, I don't want to wait.

[Nicole]

Where have all the cows?

[Brooke]

Where have all the cowboys gone? That Feel in Love song, which was so crazy. Like, anyway, I'm very excited for that.

[Nicole]

Yeah. Not enough of some. Not enough Fiona Apple. Oh, you know, I also learned, like, why Tori Amo said no to affair.

[Brooke]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[Narrator/Reporter]

We'll get into.

[Nicole]

Yeah. I was just so curious to be like, why aren't so many other prominent voices in this documentary?

[Brooke]

Oh, I'm dying to know.

[Nicole]

It's not. It's like, not scandalous. Not. Tori was like my.

[Brooke]

No.

[Nicole]

Okay. It's not scandalous, though. I'm not like, clickbaiting, you know?

[Brooke]

Can we play the trailer for that at the end of this episode?

[Nicole]

Don't we always.

[Brooke]

I don't know when we play that. I never know. That's. That's above my pay grade.

[Nicole]

Oh, I guess because they're always like, episodes and they don't have trailers for the bonus.

[Brooke]

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna play the trailer for the Lilith Fair documentary. Oh, my God, I'm so excited.

[Nicole]

Can we do this thing where it's like the magic of editing? Hey, Tom, hit it, please.

[Brooke]

Hit it, please.

[Nicole]

There you go.

[Brooke]

We did it. Yay. All right, fam. We love you. Bye.

[Nicole]

We love you. Stay safe, please.

[Brooke]

Bye.

[Nicole]

Fuck you, Tanya.

[Brooke]

Welcome to Willow's fair.

Singer Sarah McLachlan has launched an all female tour.

[Nicole]

This was the first time you'd seen anything like it.

Finding out that all of my favorite artists have had had played at this event.

[Brooke]

The Lila Fair bill is incredible. Paula Cole, Suzanne Bigot, erica Badu, Sinead.

[Nicole]

O', Connor, Missy Elliott, Sarah McLaughlin, Cheryl Crow, Jewel. I was in disbelief that I never heard of it before.

Promoter said, you can't put two women.

[Narrator/Reporter]

On the same bill.

[Nicole]

People won't come. That's complete bullshit. And it put a huge fire under my butt to prove them wrong. If you stand up for something, there is going to be an equal and opposite reaction.

Jerry Falwell is going after the Lilith Fair. Says the tour is named for a demon. We had a bomb threat.

[Detective]

People want to blow us up.

[Nicole]

I'd never seen that kind of anger.

[Narrator/Reporter]

But progress, as we know, always finds a way.