476: Love Con Revenge: Selfie Scammer

Summary

Podcast Summary: True Crime Obsessed - Ep. 476

"Love Con Revenge: Selfie Scammer"
Date: December 16, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the TCO crew dives into Netflix’s “Love Con Revenge,” specifically covering episode 1 and the first 15 minutes of episode 2. The show unpacks the story of romance scams—how ordinary women are groomed and manipulated into handing over huge sums of money by professional con artists. Hosts Allison and Brianna balance signature humor and heart as they break down the plot, highlight red flags, and share supportive, empathetic commentary for victims. Special focus is given to Jill, a woman scammed out of her life savings by “Todd Dean,” whose “wellness facility” Sanjara is little more than a façade for financial fraud and emotional exploitation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Romance Scams – Vulnerability and Manipulation

• Introduction to the case and the show’s premise
  • Cecilia, famed “Tinder Swindler” survivor, teams up with PI Brianne Joseph to help new victims.
  • “These scammers have been getting away with this for way too long.” – Cecilia [01:54]
• Discussion around romance fraud: Oftentimes victims are embarrassed and isolated, unsure how to get help.
  • “There are people who could be listening to this episode who are in the middle of one right now and don’t even know it.” – Brianna [03:14]
  • “Just tell somebody that you love. Tell them, please. Let them help you…” – Brianna [03:25]

2. Jill’s Story: The Tactics of a Scammer

• Jill meets “Todd Dean” on Facebook Dating after years of being single; Todd ticks all the boxes for what she wants in a partner.
  • “I was looking for a family man, attractive, someone with a career that was successful. And when I saw Todd Dean’s profile, he checked off every single box.” – Jill [05:34]
• Todd quickly escalates intimacy, “love-bombing” Jill with constant videos, messages, and in-person affection.
  • “He is constantly, and I mean constantly in touch with Jill, but sending endless selfies, endless videos… minute to minute update on his day.” – Allison [10:39]
• Red flags: Excessive control (even down to nail polish color on their second date), quickly giving her a key to his condo, and financial requests camouflaged as business “loans”.

Notable Moment

• Jill expresses discomfort at playing along with Todd’s wishes, e.g. feigning enthusiasm for a nail color she hates:
  • “If you feel on your second date you have to go along to get along, run.” – Allison [12:58]

3. The Playbook—Trust Erosion and Escalation

• Classic tactic: scammer asks for a small amount, pays it back to gain trust, then requests increasingly large sums:
  • “Sometimes a fraudster will ask for smaller amounts at the start and then pay them back. It’s just such a smart and simple way to win the trust of their victims. But after a while, they will just ask for bigger sums, and it will kind of never stop.” – Cecilia [22:12]
• Jill gives thousands (totaling $150,000) to Todd, who requests secrecy (“don’t tell anyone”).

Victim Isolation

• Jill is told not to confide in friends/family—a classic grooming move:
  • “Don’t tell anybody is a red flag across the board…if everything has to be a secret, it’s a problem.” – Allison [24:21]

4. Power, Control & Emotional Abuse

• Todd abruptly ends the relationship, then reels Jill back in—reversing the power dynamic.
  • “They reel you in with love and attention. Once you’re hooked, they will unexpectedly, pull away. Suddenly you’re the one chasing their love and affection. And that’s the power shift that they want.” – Cecilia [34:03]
• Emotional manipulation is foregrounded; Jill’s self-esteem plummets as she tries to win back his favor.

Money Siphoning

• Jill is coerced into giving even more—emptying retirement savings and, when that’s gone, being asked to access her daughter’s funds.
  • “I was able to get him $12,500. His reaction was, you know, he was more… disappointed that he would have liked to have had more.” – Jill [36:06]
  • “He asks her if her daughter can get money for him.” – Allison [37:05]

5. Following the Money—Tracking the Scammer

• Determining the scam’s scale requires help:
  • Multiple women come forward. Sheena, Todd’s former assistant, provides crucial evidence—bank statements and insight into how money evaporated from business accounts.
  • “He always preyed on the people that were vulnerable. Felt like he was turning Sanjar into a hunting ground so he could find all of the vulnerable women because that’s what he was looking for.” – Sheena [44:58 or 45:01]
• Karen, a wealthy former victim, shares how Todd repeatedly borrowed small chunks, adding up over time, and even got her to sign a document regarding his debt:
  • “All of a sudden, one day, I started taking notes, and I was realizing how much this added up. And then in that moment, she realized that she’d been scammed.” [48:25-48:37]

6. Investigative Breakthroughs & The Community of Survivors

• With Sheena’s records and Karen’s documentation, Cecilia and Brianne have strong evidence—especially since the scammer funneled “investment money” (from victims) directly into personal use.
• Multiple women (Donna, Christy, Teresa, Missy, Bridget, etc.) are tracked down and agree to add their stories, strengthening the police case.
• Unique moment: Tara, a mortgage broker, has a secret recording of Todd explaining his “side”—he name-drops “Tinder Swindler” and admits to being funded by various “friends” doling out $10,000/month.
  • “I have the best friends in the world. I have friends who are giving me $10,000 do.” – Todd [57:09]
  • “I’m not swindling. Not a single swindle. Tara.” – Todd [57:30]

7. Systemic Challenges

• The show highlights how law enforcement often fails to act, dismissing romance fraud as a “civil matter.”
  • “Prosecuting love fraudsters is very difficult to do. Police see it as relationship issues that need to be resolved in civil court.” – Brianne Joseph, PI [25:07]
• Only the evidence of a pattern, combined with fraudulent business activity, finally convinces a police sergeant this is a criminal case (and possibly federal):
  • “That alone is breaching into felony territory. It’s gone past the civil matter into a criminal matter.” – Officer [59:37]

8. Aftermath—Outing the Selfie Scammer

• Todd Dean is declared bankrupt; Sanjara is ordered sold to repay debts; eight women are known to have been defrauded and are seeking legal recourse.

• Brianne and Cecilia celebrate getting law enforcement to open a case—something rare for romance scam survivors.

  “That’s all she wanted was to just be heard—that she’s not crazy, that he was wrong.” – Allison [60:09]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you feel on your second date you have to go along to get along, run.” – Allison [12:58]
• “He always preyed on the people that were vulnerable. Felt like he was turning Sanjar into a hunting ground...” – Sheena [45:01]
• “He’s just freely admitting that these people are just giving him tens of thousands of dollars.” – Allison [57:04]
• “Sure, they’re willingly giving it to him, like, he doesn’t have a gun to head at the bank. But, like, he has groomed them to the point that they are completely under his power.” – Brianna [58:17]
• “The thing we need to change is this coercive control. We need people to understand that that’s a real thing.” – Brianna [58:05]

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Essential Timestamps

• 01:18 — Introduction to “Love Con Revenge” and cast of characters
• 03:06 — Jill’s initial contact with “Todd Dean” and police indifference
• 10:39 — Red flags: love-bombing, excessive videos/selfies
• 22:12 — Scammer’s classic escalation: small loan repaid, then bigger asks
• 34:03 — Psychological manipulation; shifting victim into a “chasing” role
• 44:58 — Sheena: Sanjar is a “hunting ground” for vulnerable women
• 57:09 — Recorded confession: Todd brags about “friends” giving him $10,000/mo
• 59:37 — Police finally consider it a criminal case (felony territory)
• 60:30 — Aftermath: bankruptcy, victim impact, ongoing pursuit of justice

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Tone and Style

The hosts maintain their trademark witty, irreverent banter even while treating the subject of romance scams with gravity and compassion. They’re supportive of victims, eager to destigmatize being conned, and make clear distinctions between harmless dating quirks and genuine red flags.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is both a cautionary tale and an empowering guide. It provides practical insight into how romance scams operate—from grooming to financial exploitation to emotional abuse. The hosts urge listeners to look out for red flags, talk with loved ones about financial asks, and be gentle with themselves if they fall into the trap: “It’s not your fault. He did this to you on purpose.” Comprehensive evidence and survivor solidarity ultimately make the difference in holding scammers to account.

For more, listeners are pointed to the Ex Wives Undercover podcast/blog for a deeper dive and accurate behind-the-scenes detail the Netflix show leaves out.

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Next on TCO:
Hunted by My Husband: The Untold Story of the DC Sniper (HBO Max)

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“Stay safe. We love you. Don’t give your money to anyone who makes you keep it a secret.”

Transcript

[Allison]

The Nev and Max we need in 2025, 2026 and beyond isn't even a little problematic. Probably. I don't know. I know, but these are like women.

[Brianna]

I. Well, that's catching the cat.

[Cecilia]

Or.

[Allison]

Well, they're not really catfish. You know what I'm saying?

[Brianna]

I'm with you. A. She's a little tired today, people.

[Allison]

This show is, in a word, ridiculous.

[Brianna]

It is.

[Allison]

But I'm here for it.

[Brianna]

There is so much air. There's so much. Just like in the car with them for 15 minutes. But I love it. I will follow them into hell.

[Allison]

Let'.

[Brianna]

Hi, Julia Metavale.

[Allison]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Detective]

Fam.

[Brianna]

Don't forget to join the Patreon if you want to.

[Allison]

If you want to.

[Brianna]

We've got over 500 full ad free bonus episodes. Also, by the way, our holiday calendar is about to come out.

[Allison]

Oh, my God, it's so fun.

[Brianna]

We send it every year to our hero bell tier. They are. It's like the most. I've seen all the images. They are so beautiful. They are so much fun.

[Allison]

Yes.

[Brianna]

But we also have 500 full ad free bonus episodes. We get ad free versions of these episodes. There's drag. Bingo. So much stuff.

[Allison]

We have so much stuff.

[Brianna]

We really do.

[Cecilia]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

Speaking of, we also have a Discord.

[Allison]

We have a Discord. It has so many channels in it. You can like suggest stuff for us to cover. And it has like an animal channel and like, like an off topic channel. But, like, everything's off topic. But everything's on topic.

[Jill]

It's so much fun.

[Allison]

Oh, my.

[Brianna]

How do I. Oh, just go to the show notes, I guess. Click on the thing there. It's right there.

[Allison]

Right there.

[Brianna]

All right, girl, what are we talking about today?

[Allison]

So this is lovecon Revenge. So this is a Netflix show. It's with Cecile from Tinder Swindler.

[Brianna]

Cecile. Okay. Cause somebody called her Cecilia.

[Allison]

It's with. It's Cecilia from Tinder Swindler. It's Swindler spelled Cecile, but it's pronounced Cecilia.

[Brianna]

Cecilia, don't do this to us.

[Allison]

Yeah. This is the first episode and then the first 15 minutes of the second episode because Netflix is trying to force us to binge this.

[Brianna]

I don't appreciate that, though. It did almost work on me twice.

[Detective]

Right?

[Brianna]

You know what I mean?

[Allison]

But we got you.

[Brianna]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Cecilia]

I never thought that I would become a victim of romance fraud.

[Jill]

I gave him $150,000.

[Detective]

$2 million of debt.

[Cecilia]

These scammers have been getting away with this for way too long.

[Jill]

Hi, I'm Cecilia. My name is Jill Chardine. I met a man online. He was charming, handsome, a ladies man.

[Cecilia]

Like the perfect man.

[Jill]

I mean, really, it was almost too.

[Allison]

Good to be true. He called me up, like, in desperation, saying that he needed money. It was only going to be for, like, 48 hours. So the understanding that he would pay it back. I looked at my account and I just saw ATM withdrawals.

[Cecilia]

I just had to do something. Brianne Joseph is a private investigator.

[Allison]

You recognize this guy?

[Detective]

That's him in the green.

[Brianna]

Go, go, go.

[Detective]

I'm like a pit bull. When I grab hold of something, I don't let it go.

[Allison]

He's hauling ass now.

[Detective]

Haul ass with him.

[Cecilia]

We're going to find them.

[Allison]

I'll find his Facebook page.

[Brianna]

Hi.

[Cecilia]

Expose them.

[Brianna]

You Rob King.

[Allison]

Were the tears real?

[Cecilia]

And bring them to justice.

[Brianna]

Show me your hands. Do it now.

[Allison]

Ain't nobody afraid of you.

[Brianna]

Well, we're opening with Cecilia, and, like, we're sort of, like, getting her backstory. We get it twice in this episode, but she tells us she never thought she'd become a victim of a romance fr. She did. I gotta tell you, these romance scam documentaries, I could watch them forever.

[Allison]

Like, we're doing a bunch. There's so many.

[Brianna]

Hate it. But I also love talking about it because I feel like this is something that can actually really help people.

[Allison]

It's true.

[Brianna]

Like, there are people who could be listening to this episode who are in the middle of one right now and don't even know it.

[Allison]

Yeah. Or feel like they don't want to talk about it because they feel embarrassed or something.

[Brianna]

But, like, that's the number one thing from this. If you like. They say to us over and over again. I realized I was being scammed, but I didn't know how to get out of it. Just tell somebody that you love. Tell them, please. Let them help you. Like, let's get you out of that.

[Allison]

Yeah. So Cecilia is teaming up with Brianne Joseph, and Brianne calls herself a badass. I don't care that the question from behind the camera was, what makes you a badass? I don't give a shit. I. She called herself a badass. We need more of that.

[Brianna]

Listen, her whole deal is, like, Cecilia wants to get the guy, but she's going to be the face of the operation. And Brianna's, like, behind the scenes tracking down the shit, getting the good work. Like, they're going to burn it down.

[Allison]

They're burning it down. So let's go to Nashville. We're talking to Jill? Yeah, she's the person they're helping today.

[Brianna]

So Jill met a guy named Todd Dean online.

[Jill]

We dated for almost a year. I gave him most of my savings, but now he's gone. I really don't know what to do. The police are saying there's not enough evidence, that it's a civil matter. So I really need your help.

[Allison]

The cops won't help her because there's, quote, not enough evidence. So she's turning to Cecilia and Brianne, and they're going to determine if it's a scam or if it's just, like, quote, a relationship gone wrong. And, like, I think is a very important distinction.

[Brianna]

I couldn't agree more. And I was going to say, like, this is where we need to start getting laws on the books about. Because it's like, when the cops are like, well, we're like, she's an adult. She can go missing if she wants to. There's got to be laws on the books that, like, we can point to, like, certain things and say, no, no, no. Like, she's in. Or they are in a romance fraud. This is real. This happens all the time.

[Allison]

Yeah. And this one, this has, like, a couple of twists and turns that are, like, also, like, just pointing to that very important distinction of, like, people did just give this guy money.

[Brianna]

Yeah. I mean, and that's true.

[Allison]

Like, that just happens.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So Jill met this guy on Facebook. Again, I had no idea that was a thing I was dating.

[Brianna]

Same thing. There's Facebook Marketplace.

[Allison]

I barely know about that. I know more of. But Facebook dating, I didn't know we just did this in. Hey, beautiful. I think.

[Brianna]

Oh, did we? Yeah. Good for you. If you're falling in love on Facebook dating but didn't know about it.

[Allison]

Yeah. It's our first time on a dating site. She was divorced for 10 years. Her daughter's 17 years old. And Jill, like, most of these women or these women always are very, very, very.

[Brianna]

And, like, she was really looking forward to, like, dipping her toe back in the dating pool. Cause why wouldn't she be?

[Allison]

And she wants the full package, I guess.

[Jill]

I was looking for a family man, attractive, someone with a career that was successful. And when I saw Todd Dean's profile, he checked off every single box.

[Allison]

She's basically telling us that this Todd person was everyone she was looking for. And his pictures were all about being active and traveling. He's skiing, hiking. He's got it all.

[Brianna]

Old men need to about, like, just getting out and doing stuff physically. Because I feel like all you gotta do is post one video of a walk in the woods and everyone's like, he's perfect.

[Allison]

Yeah. On the slopes.

[Brianna]

I know. Exactly.

[Allison]

And those stupid goggles.

[Brianna]

And Jill, she did the thing. The goggles are the worst. Cause you get the sunburn around the eyes. Not that I would ever but like with the goggles, day and night.

[Allison]

But the goggles, then you don't get burned. If you wear the sunscreen, it protects you from being burned at all.

[Brianna]

See, you know everything.

[Allison]

It's sunscreen.

[Brianna]

Daisy calls it sunscreen. Still to this day, look. I know.

[Allison]

I love that girl.

[Brianna]

Butcherbox is back. Look, it's cold outside. It is time to be having those steaks, those chickens.

[Allison]

Yeah. Well, let me tell you a little bit about butcherbox. So ButcherBox delivers 100 premium protein choices straight to your door including 100% grass fed beef, free range, organic chicken, pork raised, crate free and wild caught seafood. We're talking about options.

[Brianna]

Yeah. Now listen, for nearly a decade, butcherbox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic free, hormone free and independently verified. So fam were saying it's cleaner, more trustworthy version of what you find at the grocery store delivered right to your door. That is the best part.

[Allison]

And they have these rigorous standards. So they are checking the standards. And who doesn't love a nugget every once in a while.

[Brianna]

Oh my God, I love it. Can I tell you, we made one of our butcher box steaks last night. It was like the best steak I've had in a very long time.

[Allison]

Well, it also again, I love solving problems. Right. So like this is when everyone's hosting things. If you're having a dinner party of six or a dinner party where it's just you and another friend over, like this is perfect for that.

[Brianna]

Couldn't agree more. And fam. As an exclusive offer, our listeners can get a free steak in every box for a year plus 20 bucks off your first box. When you go to butcherbox.com tco that's.

[Allison]

Right, your choice of filet mignon, New York strip or ribeye in every box for an entire year, plus 20 bucks off your first box and free shipping always.

[Brianna]

That's butcherbox.com TCO don't forget to use.

[Allison]

Our link so they know we sent you.

[Brianna]

You know, back in the early days, I begged them to sponsor. I was so obsessed and look at us now. I here we are. So Jill did the right thing. She googled this guy. She found a bunch of YouTube videos where he's talking about this Wellness facility.

[Allison]

That I would say red flag number one.

[Brianna]

Thank you. If you're dating somebody new that has a wellness facility run for the fucking hills.

[Allison]

He's the CEO and founder of Sanjaro Sanjaro Wellness.

[Brianna]

I love.

[Allison]

You can't pronounce it either.

[Brianna]

I was gonna say you distorted it the best way you could. Sanjera Wellness.

[Allison]

It's like, all right, mediocre white guy.

[Cecilia]

I know.

[Brianna]

But the thing is, like, if this were real, like, he's positioning it as a place people can go for any kind of, like, illness, whether it's addiction or whatever. Like, it's a place to go and get taken care of. Like, places like that should exist, and they should be accessible to everybody, by the way.

[Allison]

And he's gonna exploit the shit out of this.

[Brianna]

Exactly.

[Allison]

So Jill is really impressed by what she sees. They get matched online, they're chatting, and Todd wants to meet Jill immediately, if not sooner.

[Brianna]

Now, I don't know that, like, that's a red flag for me. You know what I mean?

[Jill]

I don't know.

[Brianna]

I don't know what the dating world is.

[Allison]

Like, I know we are covering a show called Lovecon Reven, where, like, what is that?

[Brianna]

I totally, totally. Because, like, some of this is, like, when you match with somebody, don't you, like, immediately want to go out and.

[Allison]

You'Re both excited to be dating. Like, your person should make you happy and butterflies and all that, because otherwise.

[Brianna]

What are we doing here? Like, if you're on a. Like, let's meet two weeks. No, like, let's go on a date.

[Allison]

Can we be happy about something, for God's sake? Anywhere.

[Brianna]

Anywhere in the world, you know?

[Allison]

So their first date, they went to lunch. Jill's excited. She wore.

[Jill]

I had on a red sweater and camouflage pants and boots. We met at the restaurant. I walked in, he had on a camouflage vest, cowboy boots as well. We. We looked great together. We had a wonderful lunch. I felt like, just an instant connection.

[Allison]

They both show up wearing camo and boots. A match made in heaven, says Jill.

[Brianna]

Loving your NRA lunch that you're having together. You know what I mean? But after lunch, he brings her out to see the wellness facility. Once again, not a red flag. Like, if I had, you know, 100 acres of land with a bunch of buildings where I'm going to take care of people, I'd be like, hi, new date person. Let me come show off my shit, right?

[Detective]

And.

[Allison]

But, like, immediately, Jill's like, oh, it was almost too good to be true. And I'm like, guess what it is, it is too good to be true.

[Brianna]

But it is. But I. Not yet. I don't see red flags yet. Like, I think, Jill, you're going along. Everything's fine. He kissed her really fast. That was great.

[Allison]

She's on cloud nine. She feels like a table kid again.

[Brianna]

And that's how it should be. And like, that's the other thing is like 99% of the time, that's fine. That's good. Like, someone's got to fuck it up for people. Every time.

[Allison]

Every time, Every time. So Cecilia arrives, she meets Ali the dog. Ali's very, very cute.

[Brianna]

Love him.

[Allison]

And Cecilia, like, is welcomed into Jill's home and she's like, sit down. Let. Let me tell you a little bit more about this relationship.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

This guy, this is weird. He is constantly, and I mean constantly in touch with Jill, but sending endless selfies, endless videos, like love bombing all place, good morning videos. Hi, I'm drinking coffee videos. I mean, a minute to minute update on his day in video form.

[Brianna]

I don't know why people want enough already. I mean, for me, like, I think for most people that would be annoying.

[Allison]

That is so annoying.

[Brianna]

Like, I love a text, you know what I mean? Like, I love a good morning video or a good night video or whatever. Even like a. Like two a day. I get that. Even that would be a lot for some people. I think.

[Allison]

They're not even long distance.

[Brianna]

No. But like, to be sending 10 messages, video messages a day feels like slurping your coffee enough. And she loves it, though, you know? And Cecilia is saying, like, this is called love bombing.

[Detective]

Right.

[Cecilia]

They shower you with love and affection to draw you in and make you feel special. I didn't even know about it either. I just loved love, you know?

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Cecilia]

So I didn't see it like that.

[Jill]

Yeah, that's exactly what he did.

[Cecilia]

So you went on a second date.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

Cecilia's saying, I didn't know that love bombing was a thing either.

[Allison]

Of course, of course. I think there's no shade there. She didn't know. This is what happens. It's like, I'm sorry to make this comparison.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

It's like we say, no one joins the cult. Everyone was looking for something.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

This guy's giving her everything, everything she wanted.

[Brianna]

I want to just say, for the exuberance among us, like, I think you could also do that and not be love bombing or trying to take advantage of. You know what I mean? But like, even now, like, the messages are a lot, but she likes it.

[Allison]

And it immediately Goes sour though. His. The second date, he takes Jill to get her nails done. He decided he was going to take her. He decided.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

He films the entire thing. He picked out this truly heinous green color for her pedicure.

[Brianna]

She pretends to love it.

[Allison]

She hated it then, she hates it now.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

She says on the video that she loves the color. I want to slow down on this.

[Jill]

Because she is saying, like, he suggested the green color. Not anything I would have ever gotten put on my nails, ever.

[Brianna]

You like that color? I love it. I absolutely love it.

[Jill]

But he wanted to spend time with me. He wanted to do things with me, and for me, that made me happy.

[Allison]

Well, he did a nice thing. So I feel obligated to love the color. And I'm like, friends, everyone pull over. Listen closely. If you feel on your. Your second date, you have to go along to get along. Run.

[Brianna]

Yeah, run.

[Allison]

Like something is amiss. If the person is gonna feel ungrateful about you not liking the color, that it's more about them, it has nothing to do with him wanting to pamper you.

[Brianna]

I agree.

[Allison]

He's controlling you.

[Brianna]

You know, it's the kind of thing where there's nuance to this because it's like he picked out the color. She clearly didn't like it before it was on her nails. So she could have been like, I don't really like that color.

[Allison]

But then she also could have said, I don't wanna get my nails done.

[Brianna]

Oh, I think she did wanna get her nails done.

[Allison]

But I'm saying he's deciding this controlling for a second date.

[Brianna]

I think it is. Although I think there are those who really like a take. Like a quote, take charge kind of person.

[Allison]

Fair enough.

[Brianna]

So, like, even now, it's still like, okay, like, but you can see what he's doing. Like, he's grooming her. Like, we're gonna learn this later.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

He's looking to see how far he can go with the control. But it's like, when you're the Jill here, like, there's nothing to look back on and. And feel like you did wrong because, like, you're just a nice person and you did. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

You're just a new relationship.

[Brianna]

And we're raised to say thank you.

[Allison]

It means a lot to him that he's able to do this for you. Whatever he's telling you.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And also, if he's really going to treat her like a queen, she can have any color she wants. Well, he's manipulating her.

[Brianna]

The color is. It's an ugly color on purpose. So that's what was my question. Like, was he testing her, knowing she wouldn't like it?

[Allison]

But to say that she did the color is ridiculous. If you love it, like, it could be for a certain vibe. Like, if you love it, great. Yeah, but because I know she doesn't like it, it's uglier.

[Jill]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brianna]

Like, my friend Allison from high school, she. When we went. We went and saw Rent on Broadway in previews. Like, she bought a SC. That was. That color looked gorgeous on her. We called it Rent Green. She loves that color. It looks great on her. But, like, on Jill's nails, not so much.

[Allison]

And she doesn't like it.

[Brianna]

Yeah, exactly.

[Allison]

It doesn't matter.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

It could be the ugliest, the prettiest. It doesn't matter. She doesn't like it. She didn't want it. She was. She was faking it on the second date run.

[Brianna]

I don't know. I want to agree with you, but I also like the idea of saying, like, it's. To Jill. It feels harmless. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

It does. It's just weird that she got the vibe of, like, I should should say that. He's gonna be upset if I say.

[Jill]

I don't like it.

[Brianna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Already. I agree already. On my and Steve's second date, I took him to get his nails done. Actually, we did that probably in the first week. But I took him to a tapas restaurant. He hates tapas. And he told me the second we sat down. Now, is that rude?

[Allison]

No, you.

[Detective]

I'll.

[Allison]

Actually. Mike will attest to this. Mike asked was it our second or third date, and. Or maybe was it our. I don't know where it. It might have been our first date. He suggested tapas, and I was like, I don't wanna do that. I told him, I definitely wanna go out with you, but, like, I'm not gonna be that restaurant. Can we try something else?

[Brianna]

It's so funny because I surprised him and we sat down, and when he said. When he saw that it was tapas, he's like, I don't really like tapas. My face fell.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

I was, like, heartbroken that I had taken him someplace that he didn't like. So I'm just. I'm just saying that's an example of that kind of interaction going fine. You know what I mean? It's like, you. You can, like. You can be honest. Like, it can work. But I would never have. If he took me somewhere for our second date, like, a Kind of food I didn't like, I would have eaten the whole thing and pretended like.

[Allison]

So what did you do?

[Brianna]

We stayed. It wasn't like we had already ordered food maybe or whatever. And he felt so bad right away because he could tell that I was. My feelings were a little bit hurt. And we stayed and we ate the dinner. But it's been a thing, so he didn't.

[Allison]

He doesn't hate it that much.

[Brianna]

Yeah, well, I think that also he felt like he had made me feel bad. See, fam, we are giving you an example of, like, the way this would happen in a normal relationship. You know what I mean? Like, you have the honest conversation, Somebody feels bad, we apologize, we say whatever, we make it and we talk about it for 18 years. It comes up all the time.

[Allison]

Does it really?

[Brianna]

I mean, hilarious in a funny way. Like, you know what I mean?

[Allison]

But remember that time you took me to that restaurant I hated and you.

[Brianna]

Told me it was our second date and I was so excited to surprise you.

[Allison]

I have to ask, Mike. It was early. It was either our first or second date. But I was like, I want to be excited about the restaurant. And like, let's. Let's pick something else and be good.

[Brianna]

I see both sides of the argument. Like, I think it is okay to sort of like, on a second date, be like, thank you so much for this. I love it. You know, yeah, whatever.

[Allison]

I hate this guy.

[Brianna]

I know.

[Jill]

Girl.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

Yeah. No one is talking about the liver. But we are.

[Brianna]

Yes, we certainly are.

[Allison]

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[Brianna]

And you might be wondering, like, what does the liver even do, Fam, it's your body's filter. It processes everything you Consume and performs 500 plus daily functions. You got to take care of it.

[Allison]

Yeah. So for dose, it's taken in a daily 2 ounce shot. It tasted just like fresh squid squeezed orange juice. It's zero sugar, zero junk, zero cows.

[Brianna]

We love it. And if you drink it every day, fam, we're talking. This is going to reduce sluggishness, get rid of those midday crashes, which are my kryptonite, support your metabolism and even aid in your daily digestion. Like, what's not to love about this?

[Allison]

And dose gets real results with two double blind placebo controlled studies showing its positive impact on your liver enzyme levels. I really care about liver enzyme levels. You guys get into it.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it.

[Brianna]

Let's do it.

[Allison]

That's D O S D a I l y.co tco for 35% off your first month subscription.

[Brianna]

I love this stuff. I use it every day. There you go.

[Allison]

So let's talk about his condo.

[Jill]

Early on, he gave me a key to his condo in downtown Nashville. The condo matched Todd's personality to a T. It was flashy. During the week I stayed at his condo, even if he wasn't there. It was definitely moving into what I thought was a relationship.

[Brianna]

I am a very fast mover. Like, Steve and I moved in together after three weeks, and I wanted to, like, be with him all the time from day one.

[Allison]

Yeah, I do.

[Brianna]

So, like, I'm with Jill on this. Like, Jill's excited to get the keys to the condo. She loves being there even when he's not there. It makes her feel like this is a real relationship. But I think he also knows exactly how it's gonna make her feel. He's doing it on purpose because Cecilia.

[Allison]

Says there are all different kinds of scammers, but there is a playbook, especially in the beginning.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

So, like, they all do kind of roughly the same things to draw you in. They will mirror you. They will pretend to be perfect for you, lots of love bombing. Then they'll, like, let you in and be vulnerable and confide in you, make you feel special or, like, try to meet your trauma. So it's like, oh, my God. He's nice and sensitive and talks about his feelings and.

[Brianna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's where I diverge. You know what I mean? I'm as fooled as Jill is up through the convers.

[Allison]

Well, I don't want to say, you know, I feel bad she was fooled, but.

[Brianna]

But the thing is, we have to say what it is so that people don't feel the shame. Like, of course, any Jill, anybody would be fooled. Anybody who wanted a relationship like you did, it's okay. Like, the trap that people fall into is that they get embarrassed, and they don't want to say, like, he fooled me. Right? But he did, and it's okay. And it's not your fault he did it on purpose.

[Allison]

Well, and because he seeks out people. Yes, that would work for what he wants.

[Brianna]

So for example, I'm like, jill, where, like, if I were single, I'd probably want to be single for a minute, but then I immediately want to be in a relationship. But if I met somebody who was, like, wanting to give me the keys to their condom in the first week, I'd be totally into it. I'm susceptible to this.

[Allison]

But Jill's honest. Jill has been through it, and she says, like, she really opened up to him about her trauma.

[Jill]

I opened myself up a little bit to him about my mother. She had committed suicide in 2016, and I've struggled with depression and mental health. Health for years. I'd been to a trauma facility, so I still had some traumas that I hadn't finished working through.

[Allison]

Her mother died by suicide in 2016, and she says that she struggled with depression and mental health for years.

[Brianna]

And it's just a lucky break for him that he's pretending to have this, like. Well, like this wellness Sanjara place, like, transcends a bunch of different relationships that we meet. But, like, what a lucky break for this asshole.

[Allison]

I don't think it was that lucky. I think, like, that he picked her. Yeah.

[Brianna]

Oh, maybe.

[Allison]

Yeah. Something about her. I think, like, maybe he would have ghosted her by day two or three if she didn't have this. Because Jill spent time in what she calls a trauma facility.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

And she says she told him that she still had traumas that I hadn't finished working through. That's why these people are vulnerable right away.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

To see what. What do you have? What can I work with here? So she opened up and he goes, perfect. I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep this going.

[Brianna]

But now here comes the red flags that we can all really learn about and know when it happens. And you feel weird about it. Like, it's a. This is the playbook. He asks her for comparison. This thousand dollars is. Feels like a small amount to Jill. And he pays it back right away.

[Allison]

Well, because it's. This is like a high end wellness retreat. It's a $1.8 million facility, but it's also a startup.

[Brianna]

Exactly.

[Allison]

That's the thing that doesn't make any sense. So, like, it's 1.8 million, but just $1,000 more. Jill, please. And Jill, don't you want to help people like you? Where would you be if these facilities didn't exist? So to her, $1,000 is peanuts for all of the good it could do for this $1.8 million facility that is just short $1,000.

[Brianna]

And he gives her the quickly, plus another 500 bucks. I mean, but that's the thing. Like, we gotta start noticing the patterns. Right. So that's a pattern right there.

[Cecilia]

Sometimes a fraudster will ask for smaller amounts at the start and then pay them back. It's just such a smart and simple way to win the trust of their victims. But after a while, they will just ask for bigger sums, and it will kind of never stop.

[Allison]

This is a small, easy way to essentially steal your trust. They say, earn your trust, but he's stealing it.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

Because it's all bullshit. It's a tact. Yep.

[Brianna]

And then the sums will become larger as they go. So that's another thing to pay attention to.

[Allison]

And he is, like, weirdly very honest about it. He's like, I just care about the money right now. All I need is the money. So to be honest about it, it has this air of honesty, but that's all fake, too.

[Brianna]

Yeah. And she even says she starts to notice, like, the warmth is draining away a little bit, but. And he's all about the money. But she says, I felt like we were building something together.

[Allison]

So sick.

[Brianna]

It's so fun.

[Allison]

It's so sick. He's using her trauma against her and making her feel like it was her facility, too. It's evil.

[Brianna]

I don't how a person has the kind of energy to be this.

[Allison]

I would.

[Detective]

It's.

[Allison]

It must be exhausting. It has to be.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

Like you.

[Brianna]

And it's a 247 job. You know what I mean? You're never off the clock.

[Allison]

That's the thing. And, like, so many. Like, that's why these people always, like, fall apart. Because there are too many. You cannot keep it up.

[Brianna]

Exactly.

[Allison]

When these lie, it's too. It's too much.

[Brianna]

Yep.

[Allison]

And you can also not do this. Well, like, that's an option, too.

[Brianna]

I mean, that is always an option.

[Allison]

Just for a reminder.

[Brianna]

Exactly.

[Allison]

Everyone out there and Jill.

[Brianna]

This is where Jill says, once I.

[Jill]

Was in so deep, I really didn't know how to get out of it. I gave him all of the money that I had. Wow. He said, you know, make sure you don't tell anyone. So I was dealing with this internally, and I didn't have anyone to talk to about it. It was just complete anxiety.

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

She says she didn't know how to get out of it.

[Allison]

And because he's also stressing not to tell anybody about this, which is another red flag. And she says she's given him all the money she has.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And now, like, we don't know how this ends yet. Jill is telling us that she went to the cops and they did nothing. And they're like, this is a civil matter, you idiot.

[Brianna]

Like, I just thought when somebody is saying, give me every dime you have, but don't tell anybody, how do you get away with that? Like, what's the reasoning behind don't tell anybody.

[Allison]

Don't. The don't tell anybody is a red flag across the board. Like, we see that in, like, child abuse cases all the time. Like, yes, that when they're like, but don't tell anyone, that's a major red flag. No matter how old you are, no matter what the situation is, if everything has to be a secret, it's a problem.

[Brianna]

It's a big problem.

[Allison]

So Jill says to Cecilia, it would really mean a lot if you could help me get the police involved. Because. Because it's clearly much bigger than just like, oh, this guy was nice to her and he love bombed her, and now she doesn't have any money anymore.

[Brianna]

Right?

[Allison]

Like, what's going on?

[Brianna]

Her life savings is gone. And also, like, we got to stop him from doing this to other people. Like, that's the other part of it.

[Allison]

Let's get Brianne Joseph involved. She's. My God.

[Brianna]

Hi, Brianne.

[Allison]

Hi, Brianne. She tells us that a private investigator is someone who uncovers the truth, who reveals the deceits.

[Brianna]

Yeah. And like, she's. Her job here is to, like, build the case against the. The bad guy.

[Detective]

Prosecuting love fraudsters is very difficult to do. Police see it as relationship issues that need to be resolved in civil court. In order to build a case, I need to know, what was the story they told you that made you give them the money? And was that story based on fact or fiction?

[Brianna]

You can't just go to the cops with, like, your one story. The best case scenario is you can get a bunch of people that he's done this to put it all together, and then you go to the cops and present the entire case, and then it's irrefutable. They can't say, this is just your background. Bad relationship.

[Allison]

Right. So phase one, we got to get eyes on this guy. We got to find out who he is, how big are the lies really?

[Brianna]

And it's funny because I feel like a lot of times these people don't have a big social media presence. This guy on LinkedIn has over 500 connections. He lists his position on LinkedIn as CEO and founder of Sanjara Wellness. He calls himself a proven visionary and leader.

[Allison]

So Like, Simpson grown.

[Brianna]

Well, but that's the thing, because when you meet him on Facebook dating, and you Google him, like, he looks legit on paper.

[Allison]

And now we see, like, we. There's a video about this place. Right. Todd's doing the narration. It looks like a lot of stock photos, a lot of stock videos. But we see people talk about this place. I don't know if you clocked this, but when these, like, two people are standing in a field, they don't have their names. It just says holistic Wellness expert underneath. Or counselor.

[Brianna]

Oh, yeah.

[Allison]

So I'm like, is this so that people can't Google you?

[Brianna]

Right.

[Allison]

Like, it's just their title.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Talking about this place.

[Brianna]

And we're going to investigate this video more later. We'll get more into that. Yeah, but this is where Brianne is saying, we got to find everybody in this video. We got to find them and track them down and find out what they know about this guy.

[Allison]

They're running into brick walls left and right. They can't get anywhere. They're dropped phone calls, wrong numbers, no answer.

[Brianna]

I mean, it's crazy.

[Allison]

So Brianne finally gets Josh on the phone. Josh's company made that promo video, and they filmed it in 2021.

[Brianna]

Yeah. And so, like, Josh is saying, like, he is acknowledging that the people that were interviewed did seem to be legit, like mental health professional, not like they were paid actors, which is kind of what I was expecting.

[Allison]

And the video is for investors, so they're trying to get funding. So this is like, kind of like an internal investor video, or at least that's what Josh was told.

[Brianna]

And he talks about Todd. Like, on set, he was different. He was charming, and he was pretty flirty with quite a few women there, to be honest. The whole. The whole thing was weird. Like, it really did feel kind of.

[Allison]

Cultish, and it really did feel kind of cultish. And I'm like, oh, God, is this a cult?

[Brianna]

Oh, God, it's not a cult.

[Allison]

I wish it was a cult.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

Sure.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

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[Brianna]

Yeah, that's true. We're talk designer brands. Just a few bucks per sample. No dupes, no knockoffs. We would never do that to you.

[Allison]

Yeah, so here's how it works. Micro perfumes lets you sample luxury fragrances in these little pocket sized vials. I did it. So I'm here to tell you they're little vials, but you get the true high end experience based on your terms and they're all labeled. And then it comes where it's like, oh, I like this. Oh, I don't like that. Thought I would. I really don't. And then you didn't have to spend $150 on some huge thing and now you're like, great, now I hate how this smells. And Now I'm at 150. 50 bucks, girl.

[Brianna]

We're talking over 500 fragrances. Like they've got everything.

[Allison]

They have everything. And you could also search because I don't really know much about that, but I know what kind of smell I like. So on their website you can just search like if you want woodsy, if you want this, if you want whatever. I got some colognes. They have unisex. They have for men, women, they have everything.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

That's microperfumes.com/TCO for up to 60% off.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

I love that because sometimes you're like, I want to change it up. But do I?

[Brianna]

What do I want?

[Allison]

I don't know.

[Brianna]

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[Allison]

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[Brianna]

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[Allison]

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[Brianna]

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[Allison]

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[Brianna]

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[Allison]

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[Brianna]

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[Allison]

Prescription required. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. Josh directs them to Sheena.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

Sheena is Todd's assistant. Was Todd's assistant. And she was really in charge of everything, says Josh. She ran the show.

[Brianna]

Yes. Now they're working with another PI A guy named Mike. He's like the local PI guy. And they get a lead from this guy about, like, they're trying to track Todd down. They find his apartment. Mike says he sat on the apartment day in and day out for days. Never saw Todd come or go. He's also apparently changing his appearance.

[Allison]

Yeah. He has disguises, allegedly.

[Brianna]

Nothing shady about that.

[Allison]

Yeah. Like, sometimes he's wearing a wig or sometimes he's bald, and I'm like, what?

[Brianna]

That is. So what? Can you imagine putting a wig on, like, as a dude to, like, be a fraudster? That's so wild.

[Allison]

Or that fake face that Durst did. Remember that? Like, plastic.

[Brianna]

Oh, my God. That was the scariest thing we ever saw in a documentary.

[Allison]

He also plays a lot of poker.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

But he does it in the middle of the day at a strip mall or like, a shopping center, which sounds.

[Brianna]

Like absolutely no fun at all, I thought.

[Allison]

Yeah, I didn't know. It's not like a dig at poker.

[Brianna]

Right.

[Allison]

I love playing cards. I'm just saying, like, it's just like it's always at, like, 2 in the afternoon at, like, in a shopping center.

[Brianna]

It feels like the equivalent of going to, like, a strip club at two in the afternoon. Like, it feels like you should be doing that at Dark.

[Allison]

Like, when it's dark out, it's weird, but he does it constantly and with a lot of people. But we'll get back to that. So they're going to do a stakeout because he's playing, like, in an hour. This is all 11:15am it's so overproduced. Everything is so staged. I think this guy actually did the bad things. But, like, all of this is like, oh, Mike, are you around to help us with this thing? It's like Netflix.

[Brianna]

We get a, quote, phone call from.

[Detective]

Bienne where she's like, cecilia, Sheena mentioned someone named Karen from I, Idaho. She may be another victim. I have her details. I need you to go talk to her.

[Brianna]

It's Brianne. Yeah, I need you to go find this lady and get her information. I know.

[Allison]

Netflix.

[Brianna]

I know.

[Allison]

We've all been here before. You don't have. You don't have to dumb it down to family.

[Brianna]

Netflix. Come on, come on.

[Allison]

So they spot Todd, like, coming out of the poker place or whatever, and they. They follow him. And, like, there's this chase that happens.

[Brianna]

And it's also. I don't understand the timeline, because when they first see him, it's like the middle of the day. 20 minutes later, we're chasing him on the highway, and it's pitch blackout.

[Allison]

And then they're so shocked that he's. That he's going to the wellness facility. I'm like, obviously, that's where he's going.

[Brianna]

I mean, it's. It's so. It's very bizarre.

[Allison]

And then we're back with Jill, and she's like, oh, we were always at the facility where she was always doing.

[Brianna]

Yard work, free fucking labor.

[Allison]

And everything was great until one day, Todd abruptly ends the relationship out of nowhere. Jill has no idea what hit her.

[Brianna]

And, like, what was his explanation?

[Allison]

I don't know. She's heartbroken. She's totally blindsided. He doesn't seem to have an explanation.

[Brianna]

Imagine being her. You were all in on this Gu. Knowingly ignoring red flags financially, giving him every single penny that you have. And now he's cut you off. And once again, this, I think, is why people don't report these crimes. Because Jill probably was very embarrassed and was like, I'm the idiot. No one's gonna help me. Jill, it's not your fault. Like, he did this to you on purpose.

[Allison]

But then he starts texting her again. Oh, come back to me. Excuse me, you're the one who left.

[Brianna]

But this is where Cecilia says they.

[Cecilia]

Reel you in with love and Attention. Once you're hooked, they will unexpected, unexpectedly, pull away. Suddenly you're the one chasing their love and affection. And that's the power shift that they want. You're not thinking straight. That's when they can get even more money from you.

[Brianna]

They do this on purpose. Because now you're the one chasing them because.

[Allison]

And that's what Jill says. She goes, everything was the same, except now she says that she felt like she was walking on eggshells. She was feeling very insecure, not good about herself. And this is when the emotional and mental abuse starts to go into high gear. Because now she's like, he's going to leave again.

[Detective]

Right.

[Brianna]

And, like, my question for Jill, and it doesn't matter what the answer is, but my question for Jill is like, did you go back to him because you need to get your money back? Or. Or were you, like, still in love with him?

[Allison]

I think she, like, in every sense of the word and has invested too much. Like, it kind of has to work. That's what it was for me. And it wasn't a financial abuse situation, but it's kind of like, well, I'm into it now, and everyone told me this was bad for me, and now I'm here, and I'm gonna feel like a real idiot.

[Brianna]

Yep.

[Allison]

To have to say, yeah, you guys were right. And he's awful to me. Like, that's just, you know, like. But it goes on. I mean, I get it. And there was no money involved. I'm just saying, yeah, no.

[Brianna]

And I feel for all of the victims of these love frauds, because you can see how the police reinforce to them, like, you're just an idiot and you made some bad decisions in your relationship.

[Allison]

And what he's doing now, like, he's done this so many times that he'll be like, come on, Jill. Like, again, these endless videos. Now they're back together. It's like the videos.

[Brianna]

And. But now the video tone has changed because he's like, you're not acting like yourself today.

[Allison]

It. Just admit it. Something's going on. And then it's like, nothing's going on.

[Brianna]

I didn't do anything.

[Allison]

And it's like, well, I don't like your tone. And then. And you're like, you're making me defensive. And then you're mad at me for being defensive, but nothing is wrong.

[Brianna]

I know.

[Allison]

Like, you want me to admit to something I didn't do.

[Brianna]

And, like, I want everyone to watch these documentaries or listen to these episodes because I can only imagine how lonely that feels, it's incredibly lonely. And you feel like you're the only one who's being treated this way. Like, but like so, so, so many people are going through this.

[Allison]

Yeah. And this is the power dynamic that he wants. He's in charge. She wants to please him. She's feeling really bad. He has all the power.

[Brianna]

And now he's telling her that he needs more money because they increased the mortgage on Synd.

[Jill]

The only thing that I could think of at that time was taking money out of my retirement and I was able to get him $12,500. His reaction was, you know, he was more. So disappointed that he would have liked to have had more.

[Brianna]

He's disappointed that she couldn't get more.

[Allison]

But this fucking loser. Like they were dating for a year and he'd send her video sadly asking her for $25 like a pathetic fucking loser.

[Brianna]

And like I was watching those videos and I was like, what, what is it? Like he doesn't need the $25. Is it just him? Just hold, just holding the power, just exerting the control so he still knows he's got it.

[Allison]

Yeah, that's exactly it. But like, what a fucking pathetic loser.

[Brianna]

Well, but then when she's got literally no more money to give him, he's saying they've been. She says they've been dating for about a year. She's given him everything she has. He asks her if her daughter can get money for him.

[Allison]

Her 17 year old daughter. Now there, there must be a trust fund or a college fund or something because Jill says she told him no. And she says I didn't have control over it. And I'm so thankful for that because I don't know what I would have done if I would have been in control of it. And that scares me. Meaning.

[Brianna]

And she's sobbing saying it. She knows. She knows she would have given him the money.

[Allison]

She would have taken her daughter's money in the trust or the, or the college money. Whatever it was. Was.

[Brianna]

Yep.

[Allison]

For this piece of shit who's just begging her for $25 every other day. Like, what the.

[Brianna]

I mean, they are so manipulative that like Jill was just so all in. She would have given away like all of her do. Like, it's, it's so heartbreaking. And yet, Jill, it's not your fault. It's not. It's that coercive control that we've been.

[Allison]

Talking about all these years. But this idiot love con, too close to the fucking sun. Because this was a wake up call.

[Jill]

For Jill, I realized, oh my gosh, I cannot believe that I've fallen for this man. Finally I got to a point that enough was enough and I was done. That was the end of any type of communication or relationship that I had with Todd.

[Allison]

I was finished. Like, it woke her up and she cuts him off completely.

[Brianna]

Yes. But that also means she's never gonna get her money back. You know what I mean? Like, it takes so much strength to do that because that inherent in that is acknowledging that unless Brianne and Cecilia show up in your life, you're never getting your money back.

[Allison]

Well, guess what? They are. They're here. Bri and Cecilia. And they want to find Sheena the assistant who like ran the whole show according to Josh the videographer. They goog and goog and goog and goog.

[Brianna]

And finally, lots of Sheena's on Facebook. So many Sheenas.

[Allison]

So they call her. No, they meet her. I'm like, oh my God, we're at Sheena's front door.

[Brianna]

We learned right away she's got three girls and four boys to have a kids. Julian's covering her face.

[Allison]

It's too.

[Brianna]

I know. No, no, no.

[Allison]

I know. I'm not allowed to have an opinion on this. That's not true the world.

[Brianna]

But let me kids just. In Sheena's defense, there does come a point where the kids just start to raise themselves. Like, there does come a point where there's so many kids you almost don't have to pay any attention, you know?

[Allison]

Don't say that because then the public has to suffer.

[Brianna]

Well, but I just, I mean that like you got to feed them, you got to bathe them, you got to like let them not commit murder and be assholes. But like, you know what I mean, like there's so many of. Go play. Go, go play with your daycare.

[Allison]

It's a lot.

[Brianna]

Can you. I remember seven kids names. I'm not sure. Sure I could. No, I don't think I could. That's why you do that thing where you name them all with like the same starting letter.

[Allison]

Or that, like when you say it, it rhymes. Jesse, Joey, whatever.

[Brianna]

Like that's Mina and Mina and Jordan.

[Allison]

Yeah, well, he says his siblings names really, really fast.

[Brianna]

Totally.

[Allison]

And then she's like, say it again.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

And the baby she's holding is like teeny tiny baby. She has seven kids.

[Brianna]

She must love having kids.

[Allison]

We're not here to talk about that. She's a story to tell.

[Brianna]

We got to move on.

[Allison]

It's a lot of kids.

[Brianna]

So It's a lot of kids.

[Allison]

We get the lower third. She's the former personal assistant.

[Brianna]

Yep.

[Allison]

Sheena says they met on Facebook, which is apparently this guy's, like, hunting ground.

[Brianna]

Yeah. And like. Like, it was one of those things where it was like, they do an online phone interview, and then minutes later, he calls her like, I want to hire you. And she's like, great, let's do it.

[Allison]

And Brie is like, yeah, but what is this facility? Like, what is it even?

[Brianna]

Well, and Sheena says, like, there's a difference between what it is and what it was meant to be.

[Cecilia]

When we started talking about the finances of Sanjara as a business, that's when I realized it wasn't exactly what I thought it was. I started questioning, like, how are we gonna pay things and do things? There's no money.

[Brianna]

It was meant to be, as we've been saying this whole episode, this amazing wellness retreat where people with any sort of malady can go and get better. But, like, as you were saying, it's never opened. It's a startup. It's, like, still in, like, the funding phase or whatever. And she says, there was no money. We weren't open. He was getting money from investors. And so she says to him, so your investors are investing in an idea?

[Allison]

And then she, like, cuts herself off. And she says to breed, don't say that to him. He hates.

[Brianna]

He does not like that now.

[Allison]

And I'm like. She's like, we had a lot of fights about it. And I'm like, invest it. Like, the phrase investing in an idea is, like, a major trigger for this guy.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

It really annoys me. It irks me so much when people are, like, triggered by a truthful statement.

[Brianna]

I know.

[Allison]

I'm trying to. Makes me crazy.

[Brianna]

What is it about that that, like, was so triggering for him?

[Allison]

Because it's the truth and he can't handle it.

[Brianna]

But then in his mind, does he think it's real?

[Allison]

I think he's got to believe it's real so that the investors believe a Sheena shot. They might. Sheena. And not give us the money.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Scam people. Sheena.

[Brianna]

I mean, to me, her response was like, this guy really, like, I'm like, did in his mind, did he think someday it was going to work out, like somebody was going to make it happen?

[Allison]

Sheena, how long did you work there, girl?

[Brianna]

I know it was fake to make a lot of photocopies. Look, we need. She was there doing the good work. She did it because she was the fudgeing Karen Silkwood. Like, she stayed long enough to get.

[Allison]

All the paperwork, but she says, like, for example, when she explains the finances.

[Cecilia]

I did eventually gain access to bank.

[Allison]

Accounts and stuff like that.

[Cecilia]

And I would question, well, where is the money going? We had, you know, $50,000 four days ago.

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Cecilia]

And now we're scrambling because we have $500.

[Allison]

And then four days later, they'd only have 500 bucks in the account, and no one was allowed to ask where it went exactly. And no one was allowed to talk about it.

[Brianna]

Sheena's like, the only. I just wonder when the day was that. Sheena's like, you know what? I should probably start photocopying this shit.

[Allison]

You know what it was is when she. She started seeing that he was using the money for personal reasons.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Which is another scam. Another word for it is fraud.

[Brianna]

Well, because also she tells us that before she came on board, Todd was also getting, quote, private loans from women in his life, like Jill. Jill, Karen, several others. And she says, these private loans alone we're bringing into 50,000 to $100,000 a month. So how many of these women did he have going at once?

[Allison]

I'd love to know. The big fallout fight with him and Sheena.

[Brianna]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

Because this did not end well.

[Brianna]

No.

[Allison]

And she's more than happy to about it. And she's got everything organized, like, what happened?

[Brianna]

But my question is, Sheena. And Sheena, you've done all the right things. Like, you've done all the. I'm not mad at you at all. But, like, were you. What would you have done if, like, Cecilia hadn't shown up at your door with this paperwork? Like, were you just sitting on it, wait, hoping that Netflix came a call in? Or did you go to the cops with it? Or, like, what did you do?

[Allison]

Interesting.

[Brianna]

Yeah, girl. Earn in his back. Look, this is for those moments where money isn't moving as fast as your life. Earn it helps give you the financial momentum you need to keep moving forward.

[Allison]

Right. So Earn it is an app that lets you access your pay as you earn it. Up to $300 a day with a max of $1,000 between paydays.

[Brianna]

Yeah. Just download the Earn in app and add your info. Then start accessing your pay as you work. And leave an optional tip to help keep the app running for everyone. And any money you access, plus tips are automatically repaid from your next paycheck.

[Allison]

Yeah, it's your money, truly. So put it in your hands with Earn In.

[Brianna]

Yeah, look, it's the holidays. You never know when you want to get something nice for yourself or for somebody else. Like if you haven't gotten paid yet and you need to get that stuff. Good earning.

[Allison]

Yeah. Or you can, like, go to dinner or if you need, like, groceries or you need gas or re or whatever. Like anything. Or like, if you want to get tickets to an event and they might sell out before you get paid. Like that.

[Brianna]

Totally. So fam. Download Earn in today. It's spelled E A R N I N in the Google Play or Apple app store.

[Allison]

When you download the earn an app, type in True crime obsessed under podcasts when you sign up. It'll really help the show.

[Brianna]

That's True Crime Obsessed under Podcast Earn.

[Allison]

It is a financial technology company, not a bank. Access limits are based on your earnings and rent risk factors. Standard cash outs take one to two business days with no mandatory fees.

[Brianna]

Expedited transfers available for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service available in select states. Terms and restrictions apply. Visit Earnin.com for full details.

[Allison]

Download Earn it now and take control of your pay. So in the financial documents, there would be these large amounts from, quote, investors. Women like Jill.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

But then a lot of much smaller amounts. Like 22 bucks, $31.

[Brianna]

But remember when he asked Jill that time for $25, and she probably g.

[Allison]

But, like, over and over again, like, all of these little amounts. So Sheena says something that is, like, maybe the most chilling line of the episode, because she says he always preyed.

[Cecilia]

On the people that were vulnerable. Yeah. Felt like he was turning Sanjar into a hunting ground so he could find all of the vulnerable women because that's what he was looking for.

[Allison]

It felt like he was turning this mental health facility into a hunting ground.

[Brianna]

That's what he was doing because he.

[Allison]

Was using these vulnerable people who would really appreciate a place like this or have been in a place like this.

[Brianna]

Yes. And that's why he's, like, bringing them there to show it off to them.

[Allison]

And it doesn't exist.

[Brianna]

Right.

[Allison]

Like, it doesn't exist and it's not real.

[Brianna]

The buildings exist, the grounds exist, and the video of what it will be exists.

[Allison]

Jill's doing all the yard work. I know it's a $1.8 million facility, but he just needs 25 more dollars.

[Brianna]

I want to know, like, where did this come from? How long was it there? Did he have it built or did he buy it? Like, what on earth? I don't understand what was actually in those buildings? Buildings.

[Allison]

Yeah. Or just like, oh, this Will be where the thing will be.

[Brianna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll put the cold plunge in here.

[Allison]

What? You know, here's where the beanbag chairs are.

[Brianna]

Also, don't put a cold plunge in a wellness facility. You know what I mean? Nobody wants that.

[Allison]

Sounds horrible.

[Brianna]

People go into cold plunges cuz they think they're supposed to. But, like, I'm anti cold plunge. I'm anti cold anything.

[Allison]

Like the polar bear.

[Brianna]

Oh, well, that. But you know, these like, cold plunge. Like. Like I went to a gym that had a cold plunge bath.

[Allison]

We're not doing that.

[Brianna]

No. And they tried to get me to do this thing where I'd go into the sauna and then go into the cold plunge. I was like, are you out of your fudgeing mind?

[Allison]

So Bray calls Celia and she's like, girl, we have the smoking gun. We have bank statements showing that all of the money for this business actually went into his personal.

[Brianna]

Once again, Sheena, way to think ahead. You know what I mean? Like, photocopy those statements. Hope Netflix shows up.

[Allison]

So let's go to Sun Valley, Idaho to meet Karen.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Cecilia goes to speak with her and Karen's like, I've known this guy since long before this bullshit wellness retreat.

[Brianna]

I kind of love Karen because she has no idea how rich she is.

[Allison]

She's very rich.

[Brianna]

She's so rich that like, she barely can even tell that she's rich.

[Allison]

She like, forgot that this happened.

[Brianna]

She totally forgot my. She has a line coming up that I'm obsessed with, but she says that she met Todd skiing in Sun Valley. They're on the ski lift with her. I know, so annoying. But he starts, like, quizzing her the second they're on the lift. Wouldn't this make you crazy? What do you do? Where do you live? Are you married?

[Allison]

Barf. Who are you?

[Brianna]

I know.

[Allison]

Can I do anything? Can I have my nachos in peace? Whatever.

[Brianna]

Some people love it. Karen's one of those. I probably like it too.

[Allison]

Well, she goes, he seemed nice enough. Yeah. Real big endorsement.

[Brianna]

Also, Karen's not that mad. You know what I mean? She's the. Karen's got money to burn. But she says they went into the lodge that night and it seemed like everybody knew him. Like, that's the other thing that we see all the time, is that these people somehow in all of these, like, super rich places make it seem like.

[Allison]

Everybody knows, like, that creepy mom. Yes, that con mom.

[Brianna]

The con mom one. Yeah. Yeah. She'd go into those fancy hotels and they brought the red carpet for Her.

[Allison]

So he tells her, I'm an entrepreneur from Seattle. And she goes, I lived in Sun.

[Brianna]

Valley for a long time.

[Allison]

Time or as a second home. So I knew that that was not the kind of place that you would.

[Brianna]

Hang out if you didn't have any money.

[Cecilia]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

He seemed to be a successful businessman. She goes, well, I lived in Sun Valley for a long time. I mean, as a second home.

[Allison]

Well, you know.

[Brianna]

And she says it as a throwaway, and then she tells us how expensive.

[Allison]

It is, and she's like, so I'm rich. He's rich.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Match made in heaven.

[Brianna]

Exactly.

[Allison]

So Todd tells Karen about all of these, quote, investment opportunities. And he'd pitch it like he's doing her a favor.

[Brianna]

And also she says, but it was a bunch of different little ones. She goes, he wasn't me for $100,000. He'd ask me for, like, five grand.

[Allison]

At a time, you know, 5K here, 10K here.

[Brianna]

Yeah. And she's like, all of a sudden, one day, I started taking notes, and I was realizing how much this added up. And then in that moment, she realized that she'd been scammed. And I'm not making light of what Karen has been through, but she kind of says it, like, with a chuckle.

[Allison]

Like, I was scammed to the tune of $25,000.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

But I don't know how. Karen doesn't even know how, but she gets him to sign a document.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Admitting to the fact that Todd owes Karen all of this $25,000.

[Brianna]

And she says that, like, I think that he agree because it made him look legit. Like. Like it feels like this was his early days. He was getting his sea legs for being a romance scammer. And this was like. This was the early incarnation of, like, borrowing $1,000, then paying it back.

[Allison]

And let's not discount the delusion.

[Jill]

Yeah.

[Allison]

He's going to make it seem like. Well, this makes me feel like I'm a businessman. Businessman. Sign documents.

[Brianna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

[Allison]

25 bucks.

[Brianna]

Oh, right.

[Allison]

Take a walk.

[Brianna]

You can't have. Totally. But then, like, once he's. He defaults on, you know, he probably makes two payments, and then he doesn't defaults. And she says her lawyer says, you can either let it go or you can file this with the court to create a permanent record. So she. She's a boss. She files it with the court, and she's like, as soon as I did that, I started getting contacted by other people to find out if this guy was legit, because it's Public. Exactly.

[Allison]

So then, like, Karen starts hearing from all of these other people he scammed because they'd look him up, find the court documents, and call Karen, be like, who is this guy?

[Brianna]

Suddenly, poor Karen's the go to.

[Allison]

She's like, what?

[Brianna]

I know.

[Allison]

Over a measly 25 grand. I've had a second.

[Brianna]

I've been living in Sun Valley for quite some time as a second home, so. Second home.

[Allison]

So Karen writes an official statement about what happened. She gives Cecilia all of her evidence, plus, like, the names and the contact info of the other women who reached out to her. Or that Karen knows about at least.

[Brianna]

Well, which is really important because as Brianne keeps telling us, the police historically.

[Detective]

Don'T take these cases seriously. So it's on us to make it airtight. Our challenge is to prove that they're not alone in what they. They're accusing this person of. If we can corroborate their stories and show a clear pattern of behavior, that'll help us prove that Todd is a fraudster.

[Brianna]

The more women they can get on record, the better it's gonna look for Jill's case when they go to the cops because they can say he did this to her. No, this was not like a romance gone wrong. There's eight other women. There's a trail of him being a romance fraudster.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

So that's what they gotta get. All these women on the record.

[Allison]

So Donna, Christy, Teresa, Missy, Bridget, all the same shit. The grooming, the money. Yeah. So they all agree to give statements. Now we're back at Todd's midday poker game at the shopping center.

[Brianna]

So wild.

[Allison]

So they're trying to catch him in the act. Because if he's currently scamming someone.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

That could help the case, too. Like, if it's actively happening now.

[Brianna]

Yeah. And they see him go in and, like, we are seeing the text back and forth. There's two women with him. He seems to be closer to one of them, and then he leaves with that woman. End of episode one.

[Allison]

Right. So now the first 15 minutes of the second episode is wrapping up the story. It's weird and annoying, but here we are.

[Brianna]

I'm gonna make a plea. I did this on a previous episode. About this episode now, Netflix, don't do this. Please, like, let this be. We know. We're gonna give it to you this one time you can. One time you can let the first episode bleed into the second.

[Allison]

So stupid.

[Brianna]

It is also sloppy. Like, it's. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

Like, the show is sloppy.

[Brianna]

It is Pretty sloppy, Jill.

[Allison]

I'm happy you're here, Bri. Very nice to meet you.

[Brianna]

I'm gonna watch every single episode.

[Allison]

Of course we are.

[Brianna]

But, like, it's. It's a pretty sloppy show, but we.

[Allison]

Gotta call it like we see it.

[Brianna]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Allison]

So there's, like, this woman. He, like, leaves with this woman. So Jill knows who this woman is. Her name is Kit.

[Brianna]

Great name.

[Allison]

And Todd introduced Kit to Jill at poker one night. And I'm like, oh, we're all playing poker.

[Brianna]

Y.

[Allison]

Got it.

[Brianna]

Got. Exactly. And Jill. And Jill says she knows that Kit has given Todd a lot of money. Jill has taken Kit aside and been like, girl, he scammed me. He's scamming you. Kit does not want to hear it.

[Allison]

She's in hook, line, and sinker.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So Cecilia writes Kit a note and leaves it at her house. And she's like, pretty brave.

[Brianna]

It's like. It's that thing where she knocks on the door, like she wants to have a conversation with her, and she wants to approach it from that. From the point of view of, like, I've been through this too. This happened to me.

[Allison]

No judgment. I just want to help.

[Brianna]

And she says, like, the thing about. About these romance frauds is you have to want to get out. It's not. We can't pull you out. You have to want to get out to see it. Yeah.

[Allison]

For what it is.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So now we meet. She's like, no judgment. Just support. XOXO Cecilia.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So we meet Tara, who's another woman that Todd wanted money from, but she has a secret recording of Todd that is unbelievable.

[Brianna]

And Todd wasn't trying to get Tara's personal money. Like, she's a mortgage broker, so he was trying to refinance Sanjara. So, like, he's got to go to Tara, I gotta say. Like, from the Sheena who just knew to make the photocopies, and Tara, who's like. She's just a mortgage broker. She's not in a relationship with this guy.

[Allison]

No.

[Brianna]

The foresight to know to hit the record button on your phone when he's not looking.

[Allison]

But she says what happens is, even before that, he. She's like, there were so many delays. But she goes, he would send me endless, endless text messages. She says, I've never had a customer ever send me a selfie.

[Brianna]

It's so. What's the word? It's so inappropriate.

[Allison]

Yeah. This weird, like, selfie thing. And then after all of that already, she's like, what is going on with this guy? Then he's like. And he said, hey, Tara, would it matter in getting the refi if somebody's filing a suit against me? And he just starts talking about all these women and the Todd Hayter group and all these things that he's done. I'm literally just sitting there in absolute disbelief. Yeah, hey, so if there's a lawsuit, is that gonna affect my refi? And she's like, yes. So he lays it all out to.

[Brianna]

Get a sip of water. She knows she's about to get the story. Hits record on her phone, puts it in her pocket, and of course, the recording is clear as day.

[Allison]

All these women are crazy. Everyone's out to get him now.

[Brianna]

Can I ask you a question before we go any further? Sure. I don't understand. I. And I. And I mean this. I'm not pandering in any way. How do men not know that? When you're telling a woman in a position of power, not a woman you're dating necessarily, but a woman who you need something from that all these other women are fucking crazy. Which are his. His words. Why does he think that's going to work?

[Allison]

He's delusional. Because that's the answer.

[Brianna]

It must be, because there is an approach he could have taken. You know, that's like, I really loved her, and it ended badly. So she's. I'm heartbroken. She's heartbroken, but she's taking it out. He calls her crazy.

[Allison]

I mean, but especially when Tara's like, okay, so I'm clear. Go all the way back to the beginning. Enunciate and speak right into my phone.

[Brianna]

Tell me about every single woman who's crazy right now. Nice and loud topic.

[Allison]

Sure. So Karen, the victim with the public. Public record that. The super rich lady.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

She's, quote, mentally deranged.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

Sheena, the former assistant, just didn't like being told what to do. She didn't know the power dynamic. Right. She wanted to be the CEO, but he's really the CEO. Like, I got it. You're a big, strong man. You're not.

[Brianna]

Jill wanted a big, deep relationship. He just wanted to have sex with her. She says that she lent me 25, 000. That never happened. At which point, everything added up over the course. Hold on. They're portraying me like Todd's. Tara tries to ask him a question, and he goes, hold on, hold on.

[Allison]

And talks right over her the way.

[Brianna]

That I tell you that I. Like, I stood up when that happened. It is the most shocking. He does not hear himself. He has absolutely no regard for women. No respect for women. Absolutely no respect for this woman. Like, it. It was. It was shocking.

[Allison]

It wasn't that shy. Yeah, no, it is. It's, like, obnoxious to hear, but shocking.

[Brianna]

Is not the right word. It was jarring.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

It was so like, I. Do you hear yourself? Yeah.

[Allison]

Because he's also like, well, we were always giving each other one bucks back and forth. She needed one. I end up like, you're insane. And Tara knows you are.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

So she's just trying to get like, tara, it's all right here. And she totally knows, but he is a hold on kind of guy. Of course he is.

[Jill]

Obviously.

[Brianna]

That is crazy.

[Detective]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Like, you could spot these assholes from a mile away.

[Brianna]

Once again, Tara, did you just, like, put this recording in? Like, did you text it to yourself and hope Netflix would show up? What'd you do with it?

[Allison]

But also, this is why we're here. Because he, out of the. The clear blue sky, brings up Tinder Swindler.

[Brianna]

It's wild.

[Allison]

He's like, have you ever seen Tinder Swindler on Netflix? You guys, this. Cecilia, this is. She was on Tinder Swindler. Like, this is why the show was here on Netflix. And he brings it up out of the clear blue sky, and he's like, you know, I really relate to that. And Tara's like, do you? Because those women were scammed. And Todd's like, no, hold on.

[Brianna]

He loses his breath in that moment.

[Allison]

Okay. You're such an idiot, Tara. What I meant was clearly. But you're a fucking idiot that you don't understand. Hold.

[Brianna]

Because, well, I'm. I'm the opposite, okay? So I'm not the swindler. I'm just a guy doing the best I can and have been supported by wonderful people.

[Allison]

I related to it so much because I'm not scamming people.

[Brianna]

Exactly.

[Allison]

So I am so not a scammer that I related to it. Yeah, you wouldn't understand. You're a fudgeing idiot terrorist.

[Brianna]

Like, he's just freely admitting that these people are just giving him tens of thousands of dollars.

[Allison]

I'm so, so, so, so, so, so blessed. I have the best friends in the world. I have friends who are giving me 10,000 do.

[Brianna]

Her eyes are popping out of her head. She cannot believe what she's hearing.

[Allison]

Tara goes, you have friends that are giving you $10,000 a month. The best thing in the world is that she's making him just repeat all the insane things that he's saying and.

[Brianna]

I love that he just has no idea that he's being recorded.

[Allison]

And he's like, I'm not swindling. Not a single swindle. Tara.

[Brianna]

So Tara's on board. She's going to do whatever she needs to do to help this investigation. Brianne, again, is just saying that, like, it's our job to compile all this evidence, but bring it to the cops. If we do this right, this son of a bitch could face jail time and have to pay back all of this.

[Allison]

Because the point is, he's admitted on a recording that he's getting 10 grand a month from, quote, friends, which is shady, no matter how you slice it. And also, like, I just want to say, yes, these women are willingly giving him money. Yeah, but defrauding the investors, that's the thing that's going to get a criminal case started.

[Brianna]

And the other thing, the thing that we need to change that we've talked about before, is this coercive control. We need people to understand that that's a real thing. Sure, they're willingly giving it to him, like, he doesn't have a gun to head at the bank. But, like, he has groomed them to the point that they are completely under his power.

[Allison]

But we wouldn't have a case if not for, quote, defrauding the investors because all of that money is going through the quote business to his personal account.

[Brianna]

No, I get it, but what I. What? All I'm saying is, like, the change I want to see based on all of these, like, love frauds that we're exposing and seeing is like, a new understanding that coercive control is a real form of, like, abusive manipulation.

[Allison]

Right.

[Brianna]

And it should be legally. It should be against the law.

[Allison]

Yeah. You know, so these three women walk into the precinct, no cameras. Like, she's like, hey, my name's Jill and I want to report a fraud.

[Brianna]

No camera. But we do get this out. They are mic'd up for Jesus.

[Allison]

So they speak to someone who has to get a sergeant so we can, quote, figure out what we're going to do.

[Brianna]

This cop is like, let me call my superior.

[Allison]

He makes these women wait for four.

[Brianna]

Hours in their car.

[Allison]

Now, I don't know, like, what if this is in the editing? If this is drama for Netflix? I just don't know what the truth of this is, but, like, they're just sitting in their car for four hours.

[Brianna]

It does seem like when Officer Davis shows up, that he has spent some of that time sort of looking through it and sort of get, like, understanding what's going on. But, like, I do think they want to show, like, this isn't easy. You know what I mean? Like, you got to sit there. Like, if they say a cop is going to call and, like, actually give you a case number, this time, you just got to wait, which is just crazy.

[Allison]

And he says, I was looking at.

[Cecilia]

The total you had.

[Brianna]

That alone is breaching into felony territory. It's gone past the civil matter into a criminal matter. There's a likelihood it could be taken out of our hands and into federal hands.

[Allison]

It's gone past a civil matter into a criminal matter.

[Brianna]

And because of the amount of money.

[Allison]

And Cecilia exchange a look that. I don't care if it's staged.

[Brianna]

I love it.

[Allison]

It's like out of a sitcom. They're like, yeah, yeah, it's the we did it look.

[Brianna]

Yes.

[Allison]

And it's great. I don't care how staged.

[Brianna]

Well, and the thing is, like, they get a case number. That's the thing. Like, that's like the. That's the white whale in these cases of, like, actually getting the cops to file a. That you can then follow up on.

[Allison]

And that's all wanted was to just be heard that she's not crazy, that he was wrong.

[Brianna]

I'm sure she'd like her money back.

[Allison]

Yeah. You know, and you know, they believe her. You know, they believe that he did the wrong thing. He was defrauding people. He was like the bad guy here. That's all she wanted.

[Brianna]

And I'm sure that the cameras from Netflix don't hurt. You know what I mean?

[Allison]

Well, yeah. So eight months later, he's on the news.

[Brianna]

He's been outed, the selfie scammers all over the news. He's being publicly added as a fraudster, dragged to court. We get the on screen text at the end. We get. We learn Todd Dean has been declared declared bankrupt. He has to sell Sanjara to pay off his debts. Eight women have now come forward claiming that they've been defrauded by Todd Dean. Jill and other women continue to pursue justice through the legal system. And Todd Dean denies all allegations against him. The only thing we didn't get was the moment of, like, Brie chasing him down the street. I know, I wanted somebody to yell at him.

[Allison]

Now I have a quick note. So obviously the show is, like, super produced.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

When I was googling where he is now, I stumbled on a blog post from the Ex Wives Undercover podcast. You know about this podcast? So this is the podcast that was turned into series Don't Date Brandon.

[Brianna]

Oh, yes.

[Allison]

We're absolutely doing.

[Brianna]

Yeah.

[Allison]

But they really break down a lot of the stuff that Netflix left out, so go find that. It's the Ex Wives Undercover podcast blog.

[Brianna]

Oh.

[Allison]

Just about how, like, this is really staged and overproduced and, like, we did a lot of work on our podcast and Netflix took all the work. And, like, we're glad he's being dragged, but, like, here's how it really happened.

[Brianna]

Totally. Oh, my God.

[Allison]

Apparently, one of the women on the show, like, like, dubbed him the selfie scammer and then Netflix, like, stole it.

[Brianna]

Oh, my God, really?

[Allison]

Yeah. Like, so. So we're definitely doing Don't Date Brandon. It is insane.

[Brianna]

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

[Allison]

But these women, like, came together to make this podcast to bring this guy down, and now there's, like, a Paramount series about it. Anyway, if you want a deep dive on this story, go check them out.

[Brianna]

Ugh. Oh, my God, girl. We did. What's it called? The selfie scammer.

[Allison]

Yeah. LoveCon Revenge, season one, episode one and 15 minutes of episode two.

[Brianna]

Are we gonna do all of them or should I just watch it on my own?

[Allison]

You can do both.

[Brianna]

Okay, great. Total. Yeah.

[Allison]

We have plenty of bonus episodes coming up, so.

[Brianna]

Yeah, fam. Speaking of which, don't forget, we've got a Patreon if you want even more bonus episodes. Over 500 full ad free bonus episodes to download and binge the second you get them. Look, you're all going to be traveling a lot over the next couple of months.

[Allison]

It's true.

[Brianna]

If you want more GP and me to travel with you.

[Allison]

Oh, cute.

[Brianna]

You know what I mean?

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Brianna]

We also have a discord.

[Allison]

We also have a discord. It's really fun. We're just, like, hanging out in there, sharing. Sharing information, I was gonna say. Which sounds very shady.

[Brianna]

We're not at all.

[Allison]

But we're just like, what are you watching? Here's my cute pet. It's very sweet.

[Brianna]

Okay, amazing. What are we doing next, girl?

[Allison]

Oh, my God.

[Brianna]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

Hunted by My Husband. The Untold Story of the DC Sniper.

[Brianna]

Oh, my God.

[Allison]

On hbo. Max, it just came out.

[Brianna]

Okay. Amazing.

[Allison]

It is terrifying.

[Brianna]

All right, fam. Stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you.

[Allison]

Oh, my God, we love you so much.

[Brianna]

Should I be scared?

[Allison]

I was very scared, okay? My job. Mike kept walking by my office like, he's like, your jaw has. Your mouth is not closed.

[Brianna]

It is wild when that happens. That happens to me sometimes.

[Allison]

Could not believe it. You're gonna be furious.

[Brianna]

Yeah. All right. We love you, fam.

[Allison]

We love you. Stay safe, please.

[Brianna]

Bye.

[Allison]

Bye.

[Jill]

The sniper shootings have been in Maryland, D.C. and Virginia. And the fear is spreading.

[Allison]

Somebody's been shot down. My husband has been shot.

[Brianna]

There's blood all over. Two snipers in a white van. That's all we had. We were getting by the thousands, but we were chasing ghosts. When you have the President of the United States inquiring, what's the progress? There's pressure.

[Jill]

The crime scene was being searched.

[Allison]

A tarot card was found.

[Jill]

It said, for you, Mr. Police.

[Allison]

Call me God.

[Brianna]

He was in control. He decided who lived and who died. The FBI said, Ms. Muhammad, didn't you know you were the target? Hear that? Sniper's wife. The man that I married was a complete stranger. Gaslighting, coercive, control manipulation. John kidnapped the children.

[Allison]

He was a ticking time bomb.