477: Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery

Summary

True Crime Obsessed – Episode 477: “Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery”

Release Date: December 18, 2025
Hosts: Patrick Hines & Jillian Bezavali

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode sees the hilarious and heartfelt team of Patrick and Jillian diving into the documentary “Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery – The Untold Story.” The episode isn’t their traditional true crime fare but a lively look at the iconic 90s women’s music festival, Lilith Fair. Patrick, a self-proclaimed Lilith Fair superfan, is especially moved, while Jillian offers the viewpoint of a less-immersed music lover. Together, they break down not just the history of the festival, but its cultural impact, the challenges the women faced, the festival’s legacy, and what made Lilith Fair so special — all with their trademark humor and sharp commentary.

Tone: Enthusiastic, nostalgic, irreverent, sometimes emotional, always feminist.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Weight of Lilith Fair’s Legacy

• Lilith Fair’s inception: Sparked by Sarah McLachlan’s refusal to accept music industry sexism, where “two women on the same bill” was considered a commercial risk ([04:12–04:23]).
• Patrick’s nostalgia: Lilith Fair represented a transformative time for Patrick – his college years and the last era he “really cared about music” ([02:32–03:14]).
• Multi-genre female headliners: Noted for bringing together icons like Paula Cole, Sheryl Crow, Indigo Girls, Tracy Chapman, and more ([04:12], [20:28]).
• A symbol of feminist progress: The hosts stress Lilith Fair’s importance in both feminist history and music history ([03:40–04:00]).

Industry Sexism & “The Real Crime”

• Radio programming rules: The hosts discuss the misogynistic “rule” of not playing two women back-to-back on the radio ([06:24–07:04]).
  • Jillian: “Radio program directors didn’t want to play, like, too many women... It was a rule. It was like an actual rule.” ([06:24])
• Pressures on female artists: Tales of record executives asking Sarah McLachlan to lose weight and “fix her hair” – an industry focused on looks over talent ([15:14–15:31]).

The “Lilith” Myth & Name

• Reclaiming Lilith: Sarah McLachlan took inspiration from the mythological Lilith, the first woman to refuse to submit. The hosts revel in the symbolism ([07:18–07:41], [21:11]).
• Jillian on the rebranding: “She demon slut baby stealers sound fucking awesome.” ([21:11])

The 90s: Toxic Press & Double Standards

• Sexualization and assault: Jillian and Patrick critique notorious 90s TV moments where male hosts harassed female artists ([10:30–11:32]).
  • Jillian: “The way Howard Stern is trying to force himself onto Suzanne Vega on camera is so fucking disgusting.” ([11:32])
• Multiple perspectives: Acknowledgement that not every female artist agreed with Lilith Fair’s ideology — some opted out, and the festival’s ethos wasn’t monolithic ([12:18–12:32], [44:19–45:02]).

Founding Female Friendships and Collaboration

• Sarah & Paula Cole’s duo tour: The initial tour broke industry rules and demonstrated fan demand for women supporting women ([18:09–19:11]).
• Community over competition: The Indigo Girls acted as the festival’s “welcome wagon,” fostering backstage collaboration and emotional connection, making it “camp” ([31:38–33:11]).
  • Documentary Interviewee: “They were somehow part of the glue that held all that emotionally together for those women.” ([34:09])

The First Festival and Behind-the-Scenes Stories

• The inaugural lineup: A who’s who of 90s talent, spearheaded by McLachlan, Crow, and Chapman ([24:25]).
• Brandi Carlile’s origin moment: As a 15-year-old attendee, Lilith Fair guided her towards a music career ([25:46–27:06], [67:33–68:22]).
• Paula Cole and “I Don’t Wanna Wait”: Before Dawson’s Creek made it famous ([30:08]).

Diversity & Growing Pains

• Year Two Criticisms: The festival drew criticism for being “Lily White Fair” — lacking diversity ([43:47–44:19]).
  • Event Organizer/Staff: “We need to really do outreach… live in the solution, not the problem.” ([43:47])
• Expanded lineup: Year two brought Erykah Badu, Missy Elliott, Queen Latifah, India.Arie, Desiree, aiming for greater inclusivity ([46:27]).
  • Patrick on Missy Elliott: “She was on this broke down bus that broke down on the side of the highway… She gets there, puts on her inflatable suit and it happened.” ([47:09–47:47])

Activism, Motherhood & Safe Spaces

• Charity at the core: Lilith Fair donated $1 of every ticket to local charities ([36:07]).
• Pro-choice advocacy: Planned Parenthood was a festival partner — leading to protests, bomb threats, and Texas venues attempting to exclude them ([57:06–58:56]).
  • Joan Osborne: “I have a long history working with Planned Parenthood and being a volunteer for them, so it just incensed me.” ([58:41])
• Backstage as safe haven: Babies everywhere, artists pregnant or breastfeeding, and an environment uniquely supportive for mothers in music ([55:17]).

The Press, Awards & the Grammy Medley Controversy

• Women grouped together: The Grammy's decision to lump nominees together for a “Lilith Fair medley” rather than individual performances annoyed the artists ([40:39–41:09]).
• Paula Cole’s armpit moment: Her unshaven armpits made headlines, overshadowing her historic wins ([41:20], [42:02–42:51]).
• Jillian: “That’s all anybody talked about because it gave the idiots everything they wanted… But first of all, that sounds like a blast.” ([41:44])

When Lilith Fair Collided with 90s Bro Culture

• Woodstock ’99: A pointed contrast to Lilith Fair – rampant violence and misogyny versus “peace, love, and getting along” ([61:19–62:19]).
  • Sheryl Crow (quoting herself): “The day I got back, I ran into Sarah’s arms and sobbed into the bosom of the founder of Lilith.” ([63:55])

The End of an Era & Its Enduring Impact

• The final show: Rain-soaked and emotional in Edmonton, Alberta, with Sarah McLachlan sending fans off with gratitude and pride ([65:08–66:13]).
• Why it couldn’t last: The 2010 revival flopped; cultural shifts made the original formula less resonant ([66:56]).
• Modern resonances: Today’s women in music — from Taylor Swift’s “Eras Tour” to Olivia Rodrigo and Brandi Carlile — owe part of their path to Lilith’s legacy ([67:15–69:14]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Patrick (on Lilith Fair’s significance):
  “This just hit me at exactly the right time. These were my college years. I was – this was the last time that I really, really cared about music.” ([02:32])
• Jillian (on industry sexism):
  “Radio program directors didn’t want to play, like, too many women on the radio stations... It was a rule.” ([06:24])
• Sarah McLachlan (documentary):
  “Lilith was Adam’s first wife before Eve. She was created of the same stuff he was, yet he refused to treat her as an equal. So she said, I’m out of here. Lilith left the Garden of Eden and built her own garden, dancing and singing among women who, like her, refused to surrender their strength...” ([07:18])
• Event Organizer/Staff:
  “We had a bomb threat. People want to blow us up…” ([04:47])
• Brandi Carlile:
  “...The Indigo Girls, they were somehow part of the glue that held all that emotionally together… seeing those women on stage unconcerned with whether it made them look gay or overtly feminist or angsty or angry or any of the things that Indigo Girls are getting thrown at them.” ([34:09])
• Paula Cole (on the Grammy medley controversy):
  “So in my stupid fucking unmusical medley, I happened to raise my hand and… I didn’t shave my armpits.” ([41:20])
• On challenges and evolution:
  “As many accolades as we were getting, we were getting slammed every once in a while being called Lily White Fair — that there wasn’t enough diversity in year one.” ([43:47])
• Patrick (closing):
  “Sarah McLachlan creating Lilith Farrer inspired hundreds of thousands of people. But one of them was Brandi Carlile, who was like, ‘I want to do that.’ And then she went and did it...” ([68:22])
• Erykah Badu (documentary):
  “It was just a village of very intelligent, very powerful, very creative, very mission-oriented, very strong women who are staying together, putting a period at the end of a sentence.” ([69:18])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 01:41 - Lilith Fair documentary recap kicks off
• 04:12 - Early lineup and industry doubts
• 06:24–07:04 - Radio’s “one woman at a time” rule
• 13:10–15:31 - Sarah McLachlan’s struggle with industry beauty standards
• 18:09–19:11 - Sarah & Paula Cole’s initial duo tour
• 24:25–25:01 - Sheryl Crow and Tracy Chapman join
• 25:46–27:06 - Brandi Carlile’s formative Lilith experience
• 30:08 - Paula Cole’s “I Don’t Wanna Wait” pre-Dawson’s Creek
• 31:38–33:11 - The Indigo Girls and festival camaraderie
• 40:39–41:14 - Grammy awards and the infamous medley
• 41:20–42:51 - Paula Cole’s armpit controversy
• 43:47–44:19 - Addressing diversity criticism
• 46:27–47:47 - Missy Elliott’s festival debut
• 55:17 - Backstage motherhood and safe spaces
• 57:06–58:56 - Planned Parenthood’s involvement & protests
• 61:19–62:19 - Lilith Fair vs. Woodstock ’99
• 65:08–66:13 - The final Lilith Fair
• 67:33–68:22 - Brandi Carlile brings it full circle
• 69:18 - Erykah Badu on the village of strong women

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Themes & Takeaways

• Lilith Fair was a radical act: Bringing women together wasn’t just about music; it challenged deeply held industry and cultural norms.
• Music as empowerment: The festival created safe space for both artists and fans — especially young women and queer people — to see themselves on stage.
• Constant pushback: Despite commercial and critical success, the festival still struggled with misogynistic backlash, internal criticism, and cultural ignorance.
• Legacy: Even though Lilith Fair couldn’t last forever, its impact is still felt, having inspired a generation of artists, activists, and fans.

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For Further Listening

• Patrick’s must-hear: Paula Cole’s “This Fire” album
• Jillian’s must-hear: Fiona Apple’s “Tidal” and discography

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Final Reflections

Patrick and Jillian end with gratitude for being able to relive and analyze such a pivotal movement in music and feminist history, reminding listeners to check out music from all the artists discussed, embrace the spirit of Lilith Fair, and to keep pushing for spaces that lift everyone up.

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End of episode summary

Transcript

[Jillian Bezavali]

Bam.

[Patrick Hines]

Before we get to the show, we gotta tell you what the merch.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Hi. So we are doing a merch closeout. Yes. So it's everything we've already had, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

We're doing this till the end of the year. So if you wanted to get merch, it's 30% off. Go there. It's like a fire sale.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe we'll set it all on fire where people don't buy at the end. Maybe, you know, make it like a real fire sale. Let's light some shit on fire.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Or if you don't want us to, you can head on over to the merch.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? Save the merch.

[Jillian Bezavali]

See what we got going on over there.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Click the link in the show notes, fam. And check it out. It's there.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's there until it's not 30 off. And it's everything we have left.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

To hold you over until we do our new merch dropper. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So we don't know the sizes. We don't even know what's there. Well, who knows?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. It's like things might be sold out or not. But we just want to let you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. If you've always wanted some TTO merch, but you've never done it, now is a chance to get it for 30% off. It's really fun. Good. So I gotta tell you, through the quality of this, we go through a process to make sure the quality is really good. Just click the link in the show notes and go shopping.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. Have fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Have fun. I want to be very clear. I'm not mad. I'm not mad at anybody who isn't an existing Paula Cole fan. I'm not mad at them.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Okay.

[Patrick Hines]

But I do need them to correct me.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You're just disappointed.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I'm a little disappointed. And like, Paula Cole is maybe, in my opinion, this the greatest singer of our time. Just the voice alone and what she can do. I'm not mad.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm not mad.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But it's the real crime. I'm not mad is what you're saying.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you so much. Hi. Jillian Bezavali.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You've been crying about this for three months.

[Patrick Hines]

Here, it's here, it's here.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So this is our last bonus up of the year. We're doing the Lilith Fair, Building a mystery, the Untold story.

[Patrick Hines]

Doc, you put this in as the last episode for me. It was such a gift.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm so grateful.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It gifts to the listeners, but also a gift to You. But this is our last bonus episode until April of 2026. We will be back with, like, 22 more bonus episodes next year. But just letting you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. You're not gonna get the Thursday episodes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Until April of 2026, which is a.

[Patrick Hines]

Good time to remind you that if you want more, if you can't wait, there's plenty there on Patreon. Over 500 full episodes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Palenty, palenty.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I do it?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Do it. I gotta tell you, I'm not an expo. I know the singles of most of the. I'm like a Fiona Apple girl. My people aren't really necessarily here, but I know the singles. I love and appreciate everyone here, but you are the expert.

[Patrick Hines]

I.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Girl, ask me, what are we covering today?

[Patrick Hines]

We're talking about Lilith Fair. Building a mystery, the untold story. I promise I'm going to try to calm down. I've been crying for days, for months over this.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I.

[Patrick Hines]

So I really put off watching this because, fam, if you don't know Lilith Fair, this just hit me at exactly the right time. These were my college years. I was. This was the last time that I really, really cared about music.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It was a great time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's not that I don't care about music now, but back then in the late 90s, I was really invested. And these, the women, these were the artists that were all over the radio.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, I could stop. I went to every single Lilith Fair. I love it so much, but I was really afraid of what it was going to do to me, so I put off watching it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Documentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Until we were recording for this. I've watched this three times in the last two days. I cannot get enough. I learned a lot, you know, like, I mean, like, I. It has been such an unbridled joy to get to cover this documentary.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's a huge thing that happened. It was a huge moment in time. It's so important and that so many of the people that were a part of it. Obviously, like, this is a very. This is Sarah McLachlan.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It was a huge, huge moment. Not just in music history, but, like, world history.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And in, like, feminist history. Like, it really. I just.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Should we just go?

[Patrick Hines]

Should we start?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, let's start.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Welcome to Lulu's fair.

[Patrick Hines]

Singer Sarah McLachlan has launched an all female tour.

[Jillian Bezavali]

This was the first time you'd seen anything like it.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't wanna wait for all us.

[Documentary Interviewee]

To be over finding out that all of my favorite artists had played at this event.

[Patrick Hines]

The Lila Fair bill is incredible. Paula Cole, Suzanne Bigot, erica Badu, Sinead.

[Documentary Interviewee]

O', Connor, Missy Elliott, Sarah McLaughlin, Sheryl Crowe, Jewel. I was in disbelief that I'd never.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Heard of it before.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Promoter said, you can't put two women on the same bill. People won't come. That's complete bullshit. And it put a huge fire under my butt to prove them wrong. But if you stand something, there is going to be an equal and opposite reaction. Jerry Falwell is going after the Lilith Fair. Says the tour is named for a demon.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

We had a bomb threat. People want to blow us up.

[Documentary Interviewee]

I'd never seen that kind of anger. But progress, as we know, always finds a way.

[Patrick Hines]

Number one. I remember when this started happening, like, a year ago, where all these young people were learning for the first time that once upon a time, there was a music festival that just celebrated female artists.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, people didn't know. Olivia Rodrigo didn't know. And she's so wonderful, and she, like, does the work. She gives it up to Lilith Fair and of course, and all of these people who really inspired her. But like, to see. I remember watching these tiktoks of people being like, did you know that there.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Was a fair in the 1900s?

[Patrick Hines]

Back in the 1900s, in the previous century? Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Well, look, it was important for women. It's always important. But it was especially because the music industry sucks. And it really, really, really, really, really? Yeah. I mean, undoubtedly, because Sarah McLachlan explains.

[Patrick Hines]

That I can't like hearing you say her name. I could. I'm gonna. I'm gonna try not to cry too much.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That she like radio program directors. And I worked in radio. That's where I started.

[Patrick Hines]

So did I. Kip108FM. The Maddie in the Morning show in Boston, Massachusetts.

[Jillian Bezavali]

The Howard Stern Station at Kroc. So, like.

[Patrick Hines]

But radio programming, he's come a long way. But I could beat his ass based on his behavior in this documentary.

[Jillian Bezavali]

He's disgusting.

[Documentary Interviewee]

I remember every time I'd go to a radio station and they'd play a song, and they're like, yeah, yeah, it's a really great song. But, you know, we added Tracy Chapman this week or we added Jewel this week, and I was like, and what's that got to do with me? Those are all very different artists than me, but we all kind of got lumped into the same category. There's room for one of us, the.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Radio program directors didn't want to play, like, too many women on the radio stations. And, like, they'd be like, well, you know, we just added Tracy Chapman. I mean, and I'm like, cool. Like, you can get a medal for that. Cause she's fucking awesome. But, like, that doesn't mean you can't add someone else.

[Patrick Hines]

I remember Sarah McLachlan before Ford, Lilith. They're pointing out that you would never hear two women on the radio back to back.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I was like, it was a rule. It was like an actual rule.

[Patrick Hines]

Now I. Like, we were saying I worked in radio at the time. It wasn't always like that. Like, there were times you would hear Sarah McLachlan and then Jewel and then 10 men. Like, it wasn't. I would always clock it after I heard her say it. Like, it would happen. But it was so infrequent that it was incredibly noticeable when it did happen.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Because the whole point was like, oh, women's voices. Like, oh, they all sound the same.

[Patrick Hines]

It was just.

[Jillian Bezavali]

A lot of. Just stupid fucking boys.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, all right. We open with Sarah McLachlan in 1997, telling us who Lilith was.

[Documentary Interviewee]

In religious mythology, Lilith was Adam's first wife before Eve. She was created of the same stuff he was, yet he refused to treat her as an equal. So she said, I'm out of here. Lilith left the Garden of Eden and built her own garden, dancing and singing among women who, like her, refused to surrender their strength, and those like her.

[Patrick Hines]

Who refused to surrender their strength. So that's where they got the name Lilith, for Lilith Faire. And then we hear the opening chords of Building a Mystery. Yeah, it's really good. And I burst into tears. It's a good song. I mean, most songs by Sarah McLachlan, especially back then, they were just so magical, really.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's very super ethereal.

[Patrick Hines]

Da na na na.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Building a Mystery is great. What's the other one? Sweet Surrender.

[Patrick Hines]

Sweet Surrender. Yeah. Possession was like the first big one that everybody knows.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That was the one about her stalker.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. I mean, just incredible.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

Right. It's not just like, here's a problem.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

Get into it. So we open in the 90s. It just says the 90s. And we're backstage at Lilith's Fair.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Thank God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. We see Sarah McLachlan and Sheryl Crow just, like, practicing a song together. And then I'm realizing, like, how much backstage footage we're gonna get. And like, I mean, it is just incredible to see these women in their natural habitat with other women being creative, these artists that I loved. It is just absolutely wild.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And then we're gonna hear from women like Suzanne Vega and Jewel and Liz Fair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Just talking about how, like Suzanne Vegas says the 90s was an amazing time for women singer songwriters and bands and artists like rock, folk, hip hop. You had everything. Yeah. The women were freaking killing it. But the whole thing, like, Liz Fair is like, yeah. But then men were dominating everything. The women were kept apart. They were pitted against each other.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And they were like.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Which is like, still, like, the more things change, the more they say the same.

[Patrick Hines]

No question Jewel is here. All of these women, by the way, look like a million bucks. Like, my God. But she's here to say too, that.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Like, there's still this media perception of it being cute or novel or a fluke. Women aren't flukes.

[Patrick Hines]

It was seen as a fluke. It was seen as cute, like, not something that was, like, a fad that wasn't gonna last.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Right. So 90s culture, just in general, was super toxic, especially towards women. Like, you had Anita Hill versus Clarence Thomas. You had Monica Lewinsky versus Bill Clinton and the world.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, we see these horrifying video clips, like Bill Maher calling Monica Lewinsky.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Quote, the fat chick Jennifer Addison versus David Letterman, who is assaulting her.

[Patrick Hines]

We see there are so many clips like this from the 90s of these, like, incredibly famous women on these talk shows where the men are, like, get up off of, like, the David fucking Letterman's of the world. Like, he looks. He has her coin. She's doing that thing where she feels like she has to laugh and go along with it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

The way Howard Stern is trying to force himself onto Suzanne Vega on camera is so fucking disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's doing it in a way where he knows she's uncomfortable. And that's the point.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's what he's. That's why he's doing it. It's disgusting. Now, I, like, Madonna's empowerment came from sex. Right. And that was her message, and that was amazing for her. Janet Jackson was similar to that. Yeah. But not everyone wanted to do that, which is fine. But, like, it didn't stop people from pushing that, mostly men, on other female artists. So, like, just because Madonna was super, super sexual, Howard Stern thought it was okay for him to force himself onto Suzanne Vega, and it's not.

[Patrick Hines]

And there was. I think the other point is that there was nobody telling him it was inappropriate.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the men that he worked for were, like, encouraging.

[Jillian Bezavali]

They're basically like, like, get Suzanne Vega to take her top off.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, exactly. Like, drop off.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Take your top off. But, like, I. I just want to be clear on this because, like, the women speaking to us had a very, very specific point of view about what they wanted, and other very successful women saw things differently and did things differently.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So I don't want this to be a thing where it's like, this is the only point of view.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

No.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Because there are major, major artists who declined Lilith Fair and spoke out against it, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But, like, like, this is the point of view we're talking about. But some people wanted to be sexy. Like that famous, incredibly powerful Janet Jackson cover of Rolling Stone, 1993.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, somebody holding her boobs.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And like, they wanted Liz Fair to recreate that and was like, that's not what I do. That's a Janet thing. And that's fine. Like, the world is wide enough for everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yep. So we get a little bit of, like, the Sarah McLachlan backstory.

[Jillian Bezavali]

This is her mom sucked. I didn't know that.

[Patrick Hines]

Nobody knew. I feel like she never talked about this before.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Her mom sucks.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, Sarah McLachlan is Canadian. She says she was raised to not have an opinion, to never opened her mouth, not saying anything. Her mom was super strict.

[Documentary Interviewee]

I wasn't really allowed to go out and do anything. I didn't really have any friends. Like, I could not be myself at home. I mean, I was grounded most of my adolescence for the tiniest of infractions. But really, that's just because my mom wanted to keep me home, to protect me.

[Patrick Hines]

My mom just wanted me to keep. Wanted to keep me home, to, quote, protect me. Yeah. But, like, she says it in a way that really, her mom wanted to.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Control her because she says that she was also told that she wasn't anything special. And you're gonna fail.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Don't do that to your kids, even if they're Sarah. Especially if you don't do that to your kids. Everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Sarah McLachlan says her mother was the first person to make her believe in herself because her mother told her she would never be.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Well, of course I'm gonna be something, Mom. Idiot.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. And then she went and became Sarah McLachlan. She went and became Sarah McLachlan.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Still don't do the staircase.

[Patrick Hines]

Even if there's a potential for it to turn them into Sarah McLaughlin. Still don't do it. I would sacrifice the Sarah McLachlan for no young girl to ever have to suffer that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Can we not?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Thanks so much. So she found managers and agents and musicians who respected her. They're almost all men, weirdly enough.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, I want to take a minute to point out, these are men. They are really fucking good men. And they are the men who believed in her vision of elevating women and bringing women together. And it's important to say these men did that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. Yeah. So Sarah skyrockets to fame. She's in LA for one week before she starts feeling bad about her.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I just say we see archival footage of her singing Possession. And I'm. I'm holding my face. Yeah, I'm. I'm holding my face.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Really good song. And just read the lyrics, if you haven't already. That's true.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's like quotes from her stalker's letter. Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that's exactly right. But yeah, she like, you know, goes to LA for one week because she got. She gets a record deal in Canada. That's where the Fumbling Towards Ecstasy album came from. And she like, she's just loved and adored and she's. She's becoming a star. And so of course, like, they want to give her a deal in la. So she goes down to meet with the record label and like, the A.

[Documentary Interviewee]

And R guy was like, well, you know, if you lost five pounds, you know, we could do this with you. They're looking at my hair going, oh, if we could do this and fix it. And I came down there feeling a just fine about my body. Never gave it a second thought. And after a week there, I was starting to not feel good about myself.

[Patrick Hines]

Young, beautiful Sarah McLachlan is told she's too fat, she's not sexy enough. And she's like, I wanted to quit ever. All of these women say a version of like, I wanted to quit in my first year because this is not. I'm not doing this right.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And I've never been made to feel this way about myself before. And I don't like it.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, you know, the other thing, other than just like the blatant misogyny and sexual sexualization of these women that they did not want, it just makes me really sad for people who care about music because it's like, why do the people in power just want to recreate the same cookie cutter thing that they think people want over and over? And it's so boring. Boring.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Like, it's so many things, but it's also just fucking boring.

[Patrick Hines]

I love Madonna. I love, like you were saying that she felt empowered to be sexual and like, she is amazing, an icon.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I want to flip through her sex book while listening to Fiona Apple while. You know what I mean? Like, why can't we do all of it?

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So back then, promoters wouldn't put two women on the same bill because they didn't think tickets would sell because it's like, it's basically like the program director is not playing two women back to back on the radio. Only in real life.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezavali]

We also get so many dogs in this.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So much fun. Ladies.

[Patrick Hines]

Like a ladies music festival documentary, all on tour. And they're all lesbians, basically. Even the ones that aren't lesbians are lesbians for them.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Also, Kate Schellenbach is here from Luscious Jackson. Yeah, I love Luscious Jackson. Also, she was the original drummer for the Beastie Boys. If you don't know that.

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, they treated her really shittily. She was from. Oh, God. Let's see if I get these years right. I want to say 81 to, like, 84. Super early on. The original drummer for the fucking Beastie Boys.

[Patrick Hines]

What happened? Why'd they fire her?

[Jillian Bezavali]

They fired her because they, like, transferred. They, like, transitioned into hip hop, and they, like. And ad rock is like, we were assholes. Like, we're. They regret how they treated her, but they were like. They were not nice about it, and they basically said that she didn't, like, fit in with the vibe that they were going for and unceremoniously fired her. But she was the original drummer for the Beastie Boys.

[Patrick Hines]

She's awesome. Amazing.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's awesome. Naked Eye is such a time machine song. That is. That song is peak 1996. I love luscious J. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Anyway, we just come from different musical. Because I just. I'm sure you're right. I just don't know what that is.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Naked Eye. Oh, it's so good. You know it. If you hear it, you'll be like, oh, that's Naked Eye.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, whenever you and I would talk about what we loved, the artist from Lilith Fair, I would have my list, and you would have your list, and they did not intersect.

[Jillian Bezavali]

They don't intersect at all. But I love and appreciate the. Like I said, I know all the singles, but I can't give you, like, a deep cut. My deep.

[Patrick Hines]

My Jewel.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Deep cut is like Foolish Games, you know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

We're gonna see Paula Cole singing Saturn Girl. We're gonna hear Sheryl Crow and the Indigo Girl singing Tried to Be True. Like, it's a song nobody knows.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Totally.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's like, anyway, we're about. Okay, we're about. We're. We're about to get there.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Well. Cause Sarah's like, well, fuck that. Two women are gonna be on a bill. Watch us do it, and it's gonna.

[Patrick Hines]

Be me and Paula Cole.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's gonna be Sarah McLachlan and Paula Cole go on tour together.

[Patrick Hines]

This is where we see the video of Paula Cole singing Saturn Girl. This is right after she graduated Berkeley College of Music, Austin. She's got that short brown bob. Saturn Girl. This is from an album called Harbinger. And if you don't know it, please go get it. Like, there's a song in that album called Black Boots that will break your heart.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Her voice. You just cannot love break your heart songs. Oh, my God. It is you would love. You would love that album because it's not like her, like, later poppier stuff. It's a little. It's a little darker, it's a little moodier. Because Politico wanted to be a jazz singer. That was like her first thing and she's got that voice. But Paula Cole is here and she says Sarah McLachlan showed up at her gig and asked her to go on tour with her. And, like, that was the beginning.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I like the tour does really well. They're playing great venues, they're selling out. People want this. Women want this. Stop being stupid. Everybody. And men want it too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And Paula Cole is saying that they would like, start. Paula Cole being the opener, would open shows, being like, thank you for being here on a bill where women are supporting women. And the audience would go fucking bananas.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Because it was finally, finally.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So this expands and turns into a Lilith Faire.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Look at all these summer festivals. They're all completely male dominated, yet there's all these amazing women out there making music. Why don't we ask some of them if they want to come do something? And it was as simple as that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Not just as a response to the successful tour, but also like a direct response to these male dominated music festivals.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, exactly.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And now Lisa Loeb is here.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Lisa Loeb is incredible.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's so incredible. Do you know that Ethan Hawke directed the stage video?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, I did know that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Lisa Loeb is here to say, like, I love the idea at first of like, an all women tour, because she didn't want to just be like, oh, I'm the girl that plays guitar and I have the cute glasses. Like, that's not what she wanted to be pushed.

[Patrick Hines]

But we hear that from everybody. We hear that from Suzanne Vega before this. Amy. Everyone is saying, like, I don't really understand what she's doing. Like, even the women of the time, not that they thought that it wouldn't work, but they were so used to being like, the girl singer.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That they were really afraid of, like, being put in a group with a bunch of girl singers. But then Lisa Loeb finds out who's.

[Jillian Bezavali]

On the bill, but she's also like, it's really lonely. Like, it's really lonely being a musician, and it's really lonely being a woman in this industry. And she, like, she's like, it would actually be really nice to just be surrounded by other women who get what I'm going through.

[Patrick Hines]

And it was like her contemporaries, like Sarah McLachlan Paula Cole, Amy. Ma'. Am. But then there was, like, Patti Smith and, like, we're gonna start to see this throughout this documentary where, like, people like Bonnie Raitt, who'd been in the business for decades, or Patti Smith or Chrissy Hine, they show up and all these, like, the people who were super popular at the time of Lilith Fair are like, I cannot believe I get the stage with the women who inspired me.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Exactly. So 1997, Lilith Fair is born. And we can all thank Buffy, Sarah's childhood friend, for the name Lilith.

[Patrick Hines]

I love Buffy. I love knowing that Sarah had at least one friend in high school.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's a God. But, like, the thing about Lilith is that she refused to be subservient to Adam. Right? Like, that's the whole thing is she grew these wings and flew away. But of course, as the story has evolved, she's now this, like, she demon slut and a baby stealer.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, of course.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But like, they. They took it back.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, of course.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Everyone needs to get a grip. By the way, also, she demon slut baby stealers sound fucking awes.

[Patrick Hines]

That sounds like a great name for an album.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's a she demon slut.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, same she demonstrate baby stealing.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

The new album from Patrick Hines.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Love.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Get a fudgeing grip. She demon sluts are fucking awesome.

[Patrick Hines]

I listen, I make. I make a podcast with one girl everyday doses back. Look. That is that coffee with benefits. And like I keep saying, I love it because coffee is something I have all day, every day. And why not have the coffee that not only doesn't make you not feel awful afterwards, but actually does stuff for you.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You. Right? And everyone's really busy. Like, everyone has a lot going on. And so if you're constantly on the go, but you also love your coffee, like, this is something for you. It's simple, but it's effective. Everyday dose is coffee plus benefits.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. Get this, fam. They combine high quality coffee with powerful ingredients like Lion's man and Chaga Collagen protein and nootropics to fuel your brain, boost focus, and give you clean, sustained energy all day long. Like, for me, it's all about not having that crash out in the middle of the day.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Totally. Yeah. So it tastes just like coffee without the downside. No crash, no jitters, just clean, sustained energy.

[Patrick Hines]

For me, it was a thing that I was already doing every day, and now I don't get the bloating afterwards. And now I don't get the jitters. It's like it's coffee but better.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You don't have to deal with the stuff that's like, I need the coffee, but I have to put up with X, Y, Z. No, not anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. So fam. Get 61% off your first coffee plus starter kit. A free A2 probiotic creamer with over $100 in free gifts by going to everyday dose.com TCO or entering TCO at checkout.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's everyday dose.com TCO for 61% off your first order.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyday Dose is also available at your local target. Can we talk about that? A 2 probiotic creamer? Yes, please.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Okay, I'll take it. Done.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, right?

[Jillian Bezavali]

$100 in free gifts. Just saying.

[Patrick Hines]

So Sarah's team is saying because like they're coordinating all of this. Like they're coordinating the whole thing. They're getting a lot of pushback from the promoters. If you don't know, in live events, promoters are the ones who like accept or don't accept the contract for the venue or whatever. And Sarah puts together a wish list and she says at the very top was Sheryl Crow. Now the thing about Sheryl Crow is that she was big before women in music was big. And so I remember back in the day for year one, there was like a will she or won't she like get on the tour? Cuz she didn't need Lilith Fair. She was doing. She was so big and so famous.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That was all I want to do. That was her big first single. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

And, and, and she, like Sarah even.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Says Cheryl was one of those artists that worked her ass off to get to where she was was her record. It was huge. Sarah McLachlan called me and I was absolutely like, oh my goodness. I mean, manna from heaven.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She got it.

[Documentary Interviewee]

She knew what we were trying to do. She was part of it. She was deeply invested in. Was kind of like sisters in arms.

[Patrick Hines]

Cheryl got it. Like she just got it from the beginning. She was all in. Cheryl could not have been a better ambassador. She was able to get other people to do it. She saw Sarah's vision. She never tried to be the star. Sarah was always the. And like they were all just so grateful to have her.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And then everyone make way for Tracy goddamn Chapman now.

[Patrick Hines]

This was a revelation to me because I grew up with Tracy Chapman. My mom's a lesbian. Tracy Chapman's a lesbian. Obviously I grew up with her music. They describe her as a musical anomaly that like Sarah's like, I could sell at 3,500 seats. Cheryl could sell at 3,500 seats, Tracy was bigger.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I did not know that she was groundbreaking.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I knew she was groundbreaking, but I didn't know that she was a more popular artist just in terms of, like, numbers than was. She had a lot of crossover, which makes sen now, you know, but like, so back in the day, they even say, like, getting her was like, a super important guess, but the three of.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Them combined, they're like, how could this possibly fail?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And also, like, thanks to Tracy Chapman too. They're like, okay, well, yeah, we're doing this.

[Patrick Hines]

And so the team is saying, like, they're taking super low guarantees. A guarantee is like an artist books a venue, and the venue guarantees a certain amount of money no matter how many tickets are sold. And so, you know, they're saying, we took low guarantees, no guarantees. There was. There was harvest them to get sponsors.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

I remember specifically one conversation with the water company, and they were like, no, we're kind of really focusing on a male audience. And I was like, it's water.

[Patrick Hines]

It's water. Cut to it's water. It's water. Cut to an interview with Sarah McLaughlin where she is ripping a label off a water bottle because they did not sponsor the tour. Get it? Sarah McLaughlin.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Brandy Carlile is here.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, can. Can I talk about this for five seconds? The first show is at the Gorge. I've never heard of this place, but apparently it's like one of those, like, super I venues out. Yeah. Now this was another one of those behind the scenes moments that had me, like, in tears because Brandon Carlile is one of the biggest names in music today. She's huge. She's a super out lesbian. She's also totally groundbreaking. She's a bridge gapper. People love her in all, you know, in all aspects of society. We are at the very first ever performance of Lilith Fair, and Brandi Carlisle is there as like a 15 year old. I'm gonna sob. There is a video of Brandi Carlile at the very first Lilith Fair show. Way, like the seats that I was in, like, on the lawn.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, the lawn.

[Patrick Hines]

And she's just there as a attendee and she's talking about, like, being like the only out gay kid in her high school. And she never felt safe. We get so much of that. No one ever felt safe until they went to Lila Fair and she just can't believe it. And like, she's watching these women rockers on stage and she's like, I want to do that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And then she becomes Carlisle.

[Jillian Bezavali]

This is why things like this Are important, everybody. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is why documentaries like this are important. Because seeing her home video footage of being at the first Lilith Fair and the moment in the end, I'm gonna lose my mind. There's a moment in the end where it comes full circle for her, and I'm gonna, like, lose my mind when we get there.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But everyone is like, Paula Cole. Today is like, oh, it was magical. Jewel says there's unabashed sincerity from the audience. Like, everyone is Tracy Chapman. Not a single person missed her set. It was huge that she was there.

[Patrick Hines]

Get this bill for the first. For the first go of shows, a little fair bill is incredible.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Joining McLaughlin on the bill will be Ju. Paula Cole, Tracy Chapman, Suzanne Vega, jazz.

[Patrick Hines]

Singer Cassandra Wilson, and Fiona Apple.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Joan Osborne and the Cardigans.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe the better question is, who isn't? I remember seeing that lineup and, like, couldn't buy tickets fast enough.

[Jillian Bezavali]

What's interesting to me is, you know how I feel about Fiona Apple. I love Fiona Apple so much that people asked me if I named my dog after her. I did not.

[Patrick Hines]

We named our cat after her.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Fiona's name was Fiona.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, she came named. She came like my daughter.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. So I was like, oh, this is great. But I love that name. But I love Fiona and Apple so much. From the beginning. Yeah. When her first album came out. Sorry. When her first album came out, she was 18 years old. Title. If you don't know T I D A L. If you don't know it, listen to it. She wrote that when she was 16 and 17 years old. It is a groundbreaking, unbelievable, unprecedented solo debut record. My watch is literally like, your heart is.

[Patrick Hines]

Listen. I know. Shadowbox her. By the way.

[Jillian Bezavali]

There's not enough footage of her. I don't know why. Maybe they couldn't get the rights. I know. Fiona Apple is, like, notoriously. This is not her thing to, like, sit for a documentary. She doesn't like to do that. She's a court reporter now. She's so fucking awesome. I could talk about her for hours.

[Patrick Hines]

Wait, what?

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's a court reporter now?

[Patrick Hines]

She on an Apple?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yes. What? She's, like, getting justice for women of color. She is fucking awesome.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I have no idea.

[Jillian Bezavali]

The absolute coolest. But there's no footage of her. I'm not surprised that she's not in it. Yeah, but, like, there's no footage of her playing. And I. My heart broke that we didn't see any of it because she was so. To be so young and so vulnerable and such a genius. Like, the Depth of her lyrics for a 17 year old person is unbelievable. And I just wanted to see her at the piano. And we don't see a single bit of footage from Lilith Feyre.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, that's so.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And I just wanna know why.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I bet we can find out, you know?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, I tried today and I couldn't find anything. The only thing that I could find was like rights maybe, but I don't know. I know she's very particular about her.

[Patrick Hines]

Rights, but anyway, on the opposite end of that. So we see at this very first show, we see Paula Cole playing at the piano. She's singing I don't wanna. Now, I know for most of you that's the only song you know about Paula Cole. I will not be insufferable. Every song that she has written and performed is incredible. Get the this Fire album. She was the very first woman ever nominated for best producer of the year for the Grammy without a male counterpart. Like, that album is fucking incredible. But she's sitting at the piano and she's playing I Don't wanna Wait. Now if you go back and watch this moment there, having seen her live a million times when she is sitting at the piano, she is constant. She cannot. She just has music running through her and she cannot sit still. And it is the most amazing because she's like. She just looks incredible. You can tell she wants to be standing and singing, but she's got to play the fucking piano.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And also, this was before Dawson's Creek. Yes, Dawson's Creek didn't make it a hit.

[Patrick Hines]

It was a hit.

[Jillian Bezavali]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it was a hit. And on that album there's like eight other huge hits on that album.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. So Lollapalooza, the boys show, by comparison.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Something like a Lollapalooza. They were doing 15 or 18 hit shows. We did 40. So that's four or five festival shows in a week. It was absolutely bonkers.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's four to five festival shows per week, which is just definitively, objectively insane.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really amazing to meet the people behind the scenes. Many of them, most of them women.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Like the crew. Yes, the crew was women.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. The Indigo Girls that used to tour with their roadie, her name was Sully. And she became so well known among the Indigo Girls fans because, like, she. She would cut Sully.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Sully.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Sully. People loved, like, these women roadies are so fucking badass.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Tech sound engineers. Like, so many of them are women. It was also the first tour to bring in extended health care. It's Unreal. They were able to do that.

[Patrick Hines]

And they talk about how, like, these, quote, grown men were now crying because they could take their kids to the dentist.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, let women do shit.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Pretty amazing for a show that, like, people, quote, in power, like, no one believed in. Weird. Now there's extended health care.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Jillian Bezavali]

How interesting.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, also, like, founded by a Canadian, so that's part of it. Well, you know what I mean.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. We just wanted water, you guys.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, exactly. Can I get a drum roll? The Indigo Girls are here.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Amy and Emily have arrived.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. But this is a really big deal. The Indigo Girls are here. And what everybody is saying, like, Suzanne Vega. And I, like, love her because I love people like this. Suzanne Vega is saying, like, I'm kind of weird. Like, I kind of like to stay to myself.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Complimentary.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. That's a compliment. I married a person like this. All of my friends are like this. Like, I love the kind of weird quiet, like, stay in the background, people. Suzanne Vega's like, I'm like that. That's kind of like what the vibe kind of was. We kind of didn't necessarily know how to interact with each other. We'd been pitted against each other for decades and decades.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Especially in the beginning, there was this kind of self consciousness, and there was a kind of stiffness to some of us backstage that didn't really break until the Indigo Girls came out and they just broke through all of that.

[Patrick Hines]

But then the Indigo Girls showed up and it was like. And, like, I just. I just love them so much. They are just a part of my soul. And, like, the thing about the Indigo Girls is that they. Not only are they so iconic, like, they were the first queer band, but also, like, an early, like, female fronted band. Obviously, there were people before them, but they were so iconic in the industry and paved the way for so many people. And so many of those people are now performing at Lilith Fair that, like, all of those artists were sort of so excited to meet them, but. But, like, vice versa, too. Like, the Indigo Girls were the welcome wagon for everybody. They were fans of everybody. And they. And I knew this legend about them from Lilith Fair that, like, when they showed up for their first show, all of a sudden it was camp because.

[Jillian Bezavali]

They were like, all right, well, who's going to sing with us? And everyone was like, wait, we can do that. We can, like, join each other on stage. I thought we were just like, this is Jewel Slot the show girl. Like, they didn't know that they could be together together. And it's at The Indigo Girls made that happen.

[Patrick Hines]

And Sarah McLachlan was like, I want to sing with you. I want to stick with you. Like it's the cute. And like seeing the. Watching these artists perform together and like they were saying this was where the idea of a final song, that they would all come out on stage and.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Stage, like big last song. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they. I mean, every show I. I didn't like I saw the first tour, but ours was at the end of it, so by then they were already doing this. And I remember when they all came out on stage and you know, we see them now backstage and one of the behind the scenes people is like, once that idea was born to do this, like this big end group number, you would see all of these icons in the like, imagine walking into a room and it's like theater girls and Paula Cole and Cheryl Craig and Sarah McLachlan and Fiona Apple and Julian Jonah. They're all like working on a song together. I can't imagine it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And Brandi Carlisle says, I want to slow down on this because she says.

[Documentary Interviewee]

The life foaming experience of watching the Indigo Girls, they were somehow part of the glue that held all that emotionally together for those women. And seeing those women on stage unconcerned with whether it made them look gay or overtly feminist or angsty or angry or any of the things that the Indigo Girls are getting thrown at them.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Seeing everyone up there was life changing for her because no one was worried about being like too angry or too feminist. And she says or any of those things that the Indigo Girls were always having thrown at them. And I'm like, I want to slow down on that because people love telling a woman that she's angry even, and especially when she has every right to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And so like, I'm sure, like there were a couple of angles. Angry songs.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But like at. In that moment. And we should be. We're fucking pissed. Yeah. But like in that moment, it was like no one cared if they were angry. It was a safe place to be angry. Or they could let things out or they could be emotional. Like that's the big insult. Oh, you're so emotional. You're so hysterical. Or you could just have fucking fun, which is also allowed.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and the other thing that Brandi Carlisle says in this moment too is that they weren't afraid of being associated with the Indigo Girls, who were so openly gay.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

That you could like sing into a microphone with them or even sing a fucking love song with them. And it didn't matter what people thought about.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And it was also fun.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And. But. And, like, that's the other thing that. That, like, is such a theme throughout the documentary is like, they were all having fun. Like, they could be together and have fun. And like, that was the point of the festival.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Right. And they were also making a ton of money.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

They made about, they say, hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, but I looked it up. They actually made $60 million over three years, which is like 16 million a year, which is crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, in for, like, that was, you know, 30 years ago. So whatever. Like, that money would have been in today's house.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's enormous. And then on top of that, there was charity and sponsors and, like, they only wanted to work with organizations. True to the cause, obviously. Right? You men, who would give them water?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, but I also suck on the water. My whole thing. Rip that label off, McLaughlin. Rip it off. If they're not supporting.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But Sarah took $1 from every ticket sold and gave it to a local charity. And she did this for every venue.

[Patrick Hines]

Girl, Quince is back. You are looking so cute today in your quince jeans.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Thank you so much. I wear them all the time. I'm not even kidding.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, fam. When it comes to gifting, we want to give things that people really love, like beautiful, timeless pieces. They'll wear flowers for years. You know that that's quint. You know that we love it. You know that we wear it in all the seasons.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. So right now, I'm wearing the Luna stretch flare jeans. They are so cute. They go with everything, you know, I also love my nylon crossbody bag that I wear all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I mean, they're Italian Wool coats are also their standout pieces. They're beautifully tailored, soft to the touch, and crafted to last for seasons.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. I want to talk about the craftsmanship because I also have, like, loungewear. I'm telling you, I have so much Quinn stuff. I love it so much. But, like, the craftsmanship, you can really see it in every detail. Detail. Like the stitching, the fit, the drape. Like, it's elevated, it's timeless. It's made to wear on repeat when I tell you I'm wearing these jeans constantly. It's true. They're so comfortable.

[Patrick Hines]

You say it all the time. So, fam. Find gifts so good you want to keep them with quints.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Go to quince.com/tco for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now.

[Patrick Hines]

Available in Canada, too.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's Q, U I n c e.com/tco to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

[Patrick Hines]

Quince.com/tco and they also tell you how.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Much it would be be at other places compared to them.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You really feel like you're getting a deal.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, I love it, girl. Rocket Money is back. Fam, you know this. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. Here's the thing, though. Rocket Money shows all of your expenses in one place. And it's not just your expenses. It's the subscriptions. You forgot about it. And don't feel bad. We all do it. We all sign up for stuff. And free forget.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And look, their dashboard lays out your entire financial picture, which I know can sound scary, but when you do it, you're going to be so happy. It shows you bill due dates, paydays in a way that's easy to digest. I'm telling you, like, if I can navigate this thing, anybody can do it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. And if you see subscriptions that you forgot about or you no longer want, Rocket Money will help you cancel them. Because, you know, sometimes people make it hard to cancel. Rocket Money has your back.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. They'll even try to negotiate to lower your bills. That is like my favorite thing for the app. Scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. Like, oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. They'll, like, alert you to stuff that you had no idea about.

[Patrick Hines]

Truly.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And they'll even talk to customer service so you don't have to. That is priceless, fam.

[Patrick Hines]

Rocket Money has saved users over $2.5 billion, including over 880 million in canceled subscriptions alone.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Their 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. And I'm one of them. I got to.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

Go to Rocket Money.com obsessed today.

[Patrick Hines]

That's Rocket Money.com obsessed.

[Jillian Bezavali]

RocketMoney.com obsessed. Which we are, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely are. Jewel says now, too, that, like, all of these women are starting to have massive hits on the charts. And so, like Jewel says, everybody was.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Doing well on that lineup. We were having massive hits. I went from selling zero records in three years to selling a million albums every month.

[Patrick Hines]

One million records a month. That's, by the way, when people ask How Jewel can like not work these days. That's how.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's how. And those Intuition commercials, the razor commercials.

[Patrick Hines]

No question. And she's like notoriously good with money. Like, doesn't spend anything. I love those commercials.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Also, Sean Colvin, she talks about knowing that, like, knowing Sunny Came Home was a hit because of how the audience at Lil Far reacted. She was like, how do you know this song?

[Patrick Hines]

And like, Sean Colvin was a total unknown. She came out of nowhere and she said she would sing Sunny Came Home at the show and like, like her and her bandmates would look at each other like we were singing at a coffee shop last week and now there's 20,000 people who know all the words to my song.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So the Grammy nominations after the first year of Love Fair are unbelievable. Sean Colvin, Cheryl Crow, Jewel, Meredith Brooks, Sarah McLaughlin, Paula Cole, seven nomin. And she won best new artists that year.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, Paula Cole wins best new Artist and Sean Colvin won record of the year and song of the year. Like, that was fudgeing insane. And I want to say one more time, Paula Cole was nominated for best producer of an album, whatever that that is. Like best producer of the year. Basically. She was the first woman ever to be nominated for that award not having a male counterpart.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Which is like so groundbreaking. And nobody knows that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's huge. I want to talk about this medley. So all the nominees for record of the year got their own performance except for the Lilith Fair tribute.

[Patrick Hines]

So basically the other two got their own performances.

[Jillian Bezavali]

R. Kelly, Bo and Hanson. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So yay, by the way, loving Hanson.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But Sean colvin and Sarah McLaughlin and Paula Cole. So instead of each of them having their own songs at the Grammys, they do a medley.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And that's super fudgeing annoying that they sent the three women like, oh, we'll just make it a little. Because like they're not their own artists.

[Patrick Hines]

But the big thing that happened during that, I mean this was. This was like so ridiculously earth shattering when it happened. Paula cold during her performance.

[Documentary Interviewee]

So in my stupid fucking unmusical medley, I happened to raise my hand and.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I didn't shave my armpits.

[Documentary Interviewee]

And like that became things. I was so angry for Paula to be diminished like that after such a huge night. Who gave cares? But that's what it became about.

[Jillian Bezavali]

The thing that happened is now that's all anybody talked about because it gave the idiots everything they wanted. All the idiots being like, oh, they're just like angry, unshaven women.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And you know what I mean? Like, oh, they're dirty lesbian hippies just, like, screaming and crying. I'm like, first of all, that sounds like a blast.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally number one.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But two, like, this stupid image of women in music, like, and it. It. They're just like. Like, it just pisses me off that they took that and ran with it in the most negative way they. Possibly the only thing.

[Patrick Hines]

And look, I just. I. I want to. I want to not. Not say this. There's no world in which Paula Cole did not know that was going to happen. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Sure. Right. I mean, did she make that. Do you think she made a statement? You say she made a statement?

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no. I just think that she, like, decided to, like, be her, like, true self and not shave her armpits and wear a sleeveless dress. Like it was going to be a topic of conversation. No. There. Well, that's, like, anybody was surprised by that.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

You know, it was stupid. The conversation was fudgeing ridiculous. And like, God love Paula Cole for doing something that I'm sure made so many people feel seen. Yeah. Like, being brave, you know?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, she's here now. I mean, I follow Paula Cole on all the social media. She's just like a normal lady. She lives in Gloucester, Massachusetts. Like, she performs in tours all the time. She still makes albums.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's just like, last time you saw.

[Patrick Hines]

Her, it's been a long time. She did a 20th anniversary tour of this fight, and my friend Mike Jensen and I went and I sobbed. She did the album start to finish. Oh, my God, I'm gonna cry talking about it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You have to go next time.

[Patrick Hines]

She's. I know, I know. And I just. I just love her so much. But I also just love that she's normal. She's just like a mom in Gloucester and, you know, and. But it's so great to see her here, like, having this moment where she gets to, like, reflect on all of this stuff because, you know, it's easy to forget that, like, Lilith first started because Paula and Sarah went on tour together. Like, Paula. It wasn't her idea, but she was, like, part of the reason it exists.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You know, because it was successful. That was the thing, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So. 1998, year two, 18,000 miles traveled, 123 artists, 57 shows, $3.5 million donated.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

As many accolades as we were getting, we were getting slammed every once in a while being called Lily whitefair that there wasn't enough diversity in year one. We had an opportunity that we never See, we need to really do outreach in terms of other artists and live in the solution, not the problem.

[Jillian Bezavali]

The criticism is super valid. There are no hip hop artists, no R and B artists. Like, yes, Tracy Chapman is black and at the forefront, but they really did lack any kind of real diversity. And also no real hard rock acts either.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So this is where I want to take a little detour of the people who didn't appear. I told you about Tori Amos.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So she was as. And it was by all accounts totally mutual and no hard feelings, but she was kind of like, I'm all about theater and like, my show's kind of like a whole. And like, she. Her thing. She just didn't want to like, pare down her show to be on a festival.

[Patrick Hines]

No, that makes total sense.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Anita Franco wasn't there. She declined it. She like, kind of didn't believe in it. Patti Smith, did she say why? She just didn't want to be, like, tokenized. She just didn't want to be a part of it. Like how Lisa Loeb was like, I don't know if I want to do this. That's sort of the Ana DeFranco camp. Patti Smith did the first run, but she didn't do the full festival. Courtney Love wasn't there there. Melissa Etheridge wasn't there.

[Patrick Hines]

Did she decide not to do it?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Actually, someone tweeted at her. I found this like a few years ago that was like, oh my God. Here's footage of Melissa Etheridge at Lilith Fair. And she was like, I never went to a single Lilith Fair. That's from a different tour.

[Patrick Hines]

Huh. I mean, Melissa was another one that was a huge fucking star by that point. So maybe she just like, who knows why? But that, that surprises me.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Garbage.

[Patrick Hines]

Uh huh.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Alanis. Even though they played a clip of Alanis like her you ought to know video, but she was never on Lilith Fair.

[Patrick Hines]

Alanis does not surprise me at all. Only because she was on tour for Jagged Little Pill for fucking. And she was either tired of touring or. But also like too big. You know what I mean? Like, I think that there's a real thing to be said that like, Alanis probably had a price. You know what I mean?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Like, TLC was huge. And then like 1994 is when, you know, like, like Kathleen, Hannah and the Riot Grrrl movement, like Veruck Assault, like there to me, there are a lot of glaring omissions here between women of color, other music that, like, didn't have guitars involved or had like electric guitars involved. Like the riot girls, any hip hop like that seems like a glaring om.

[Patrick Hines]

The best part about all of this.

[Documentary Interviewee]

I remember when some of the criticism was first coming in, she was very open minded to accepting it, working her.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Way through it, you know, admitting that.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Maybe mistakes were made. I mean, that's something I've always admired about her was her public discussion of, well, let me think about that. Because maybe you're right or maybe there's something more that I need to think about.

[Patrick Hines]

Sarah was like super open to the criticism.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's like heard.

[Patrick Hines]

She's like absolutely heard. Let's fucking do better. Who want, like, who can we get? Who wants to do this?

[Jillian Bezavali]

So in 1998, Erykah Badu was added to the lineup as well as Desiree. Yes, Missy Elliott, who made her touring debut at lilithaire, Queen, Latifah India, Ari, like fudgeing finally.

[Patrick Hines]

And can I tell you, seeing Erykah Badu at lilithair, I'd never heard of her. And it was. She's what you remembered. Like, like she, she came out, not only is she just so fucking striking, her voice is like, her voice is just flawless. And she has this easy charm that like in a stadium of 20,000 people and you're on the lawn, like I was, you feel like she's singing to you. Like there's something so, I mean, incred. I've never really seen another artist. Like, she just has such an ease about it. It's true. It's incredible.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's true.

[Patrick Hines]

The Missy Elliott stuff is amazing. Like the Missy Elliott story is. I just love it because Sarah McLaughlin's like, she'd never toured before. We really wanted her. She was on this broke down bus that broke down on the side of the highway. It's five minutes to Missy. She's not there.

[Jillian Bezavali]

God.

[Patrick Hines]

And then like we get the story that like.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

And then we get a call. It's like, oh, hey, my bus broke down. I'm on a highway five miles away, but I'm gonna get there. Five minutes later, this red convertible pulls up. Some dude she's flagged down on the highway. She comes out, she puts on her inflatable suit and it happened.

[Patrick Hines]

She calls, she's like, I'm in a car. I had some guy pick me up on the highway. She got to the stadium five minutes before. It was her debut at Lilith Fair. She goes out on stage and just fucking brings the house down. And we see her like right after her first warm. And she's like, that was so fun.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, you know, I'll get off my soapbox in a minute. But her whole debut, like that music video, that song, like, she was just like. Everyone was like, like wearing that outfit. Everyone was like, who is this amazing? Like, what am I, what am I watching? This is. I want more of it. She's just so cool.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and like, there's a. We see a clip of the Indigo Girls jamming with Missy Elliott. Like, in what other venue, in what other environment would you. Would they be together on the same bill?

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And to see like these old lesbians and this young hip hop artist, like, it just. It's so fudgeing cool.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And then you have like the Sandra Bernhardt's of the world who were talking shit because they were actually like, they wanted to be invited and they were just working out their jealousy.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I tell you, I had no idea. I have to, Sandra. I had no idea. Sandra Bernhardt was at lilithair, but she's.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Here to take it all back. She's like, here, the documentary. She was like, I was hanging out with Madonna.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She basically says, like, she didn't give it a chance. She was just talking shit because, like, that's what people were doing.

[Patrick Hines]

We see her at one of the concerts being like. They caught. Called me and said, sandra, we need you. We need your energy. I'm like, I don't think that that's how that call went, Sandra. I really don't think that's how that went.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But like, Chrissy Hind from the Pretender is also a legend. And they, like, were there to, quote, stir shit up. Yeah, but all these women, like, there were women, like music critics who were shitting all over Lilith Fair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And like, they were all. All of them were asked very stupid questions, like, all the time.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because they would do these daily press conferences, like, what a fucking nightmare.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And Sinead o' Connor's here.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Sinead was treated horribly by the press and wider culture for speaking out and being her authentic self, unapologetic. We were all so inspired by her honesty. Sinead was really important for me to have on because I was so in awe of her and her immense power.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It cannot be understated if you don't know how Sinead o' Connor was treated after her SNL appearance. Yeah. How horrible. Probably she was treated by the press and the public, but she was invited.

[Patrick Hines]

She went into hiding, but she was.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Invited to Lilith Faire and she thrived. And it was a major. It was like, it. It helped her a lot in that moment. We're Told well.

[Patrick Hines]

And also, like, there was something about how badly she was treated that kind of made her an icon.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Like, can you imagine how lonely she must have felt?

[Patrick Hines]

No, I. I absolutely cannot. And, like, and I was a big Sinead o' Connor fan. Like, I. Like, I had her albums. I would like her voice like it is. There's nothing like it. And to see the reverie with which Sarah McLachlan talks about, like, getting to sing with her and getting to know her a little bit, and to see Sinead o' Connor in archival interviews talking about what it meant to her to be included.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And, like, when you. When she was totally fucking attacked and destroyed and all you heard about her was something negative.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

To go on a tour like this and to be embraced not just by the other artists, but by the public.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I'm sure she thought that would never happen. I'm sure she was terrified to go out there for the first time. Like, what is going to happen? Happened to me. People wanted her dead. I mean, it was horrifying.

[Patrick Hines]

It was really bad and ridiculous. Yeah, girl. Home Chef is back. We are obsessed. Home Chef, fam, if you don't know, is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste, and recipe ease. Like, even I can cook this stuff.

[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

Those 30 minute meals, I made shrimp quesadillas the other night. I was, like, amazed by my ability to do it and how delicious they were.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So that's the thing. If you actually want to cook, like, sometimes it can be very meditative. If you want to do the 30 minute meals, great. But they also have oven ready trays. They have quick microwave options, like, anything you need to make your life easier and, like, find your joy in food and having your meals ready. Home Chef is for you, let me tell you.

[Patrick Hines]

They've got that dedicated family menu which, like, we live and die by.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, the three of us will sit down and, like, go through it and pick stuff together. It's like finding food that she'll actually eat that is, like, good for everyone.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And what's great is that Home chef has over 30 meal options per week. Yeah. So whatever your diet is, whatever your tastes are, whatever your allergies are, like, you can find it in the 30 options per week, and it's affordable.

[Patrick Hines]

Fam. Home Chef customers save an average of 86 bucks per month over groceries like that is a real savings.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Absolutely. And also your peace of mind just like knowing that it's handled, also invaluable.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Jillian Bezavali]

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[Patrick Hines]

So for year two, their co headliner, they called. They made one call and one call only. And they called Natalie Merchant. And my God, now I know children, many of you have never heard of her.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Like, that is so crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It is. It cannot be overstated how famous Natalie Merchant was in like 1997, 1998 Maniacs. Yeah, I mean, she came in the 10,000 Maniacs. I know that was like a, a difficult time for her because she felt shouted down by the men. She really had, like, she left. It was bad. It was really hard for her. But then she came out on her own and she did that album Tiger Lily. Well, she followed up with that album Ophelia. And Natalie Merchant was so, so fucking famous. And. And Sarah McLaughlin is just saying Natalie.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Really embodied free spirit. She had a freaking swing and she.

[Patrick Hines]

Talks about the swing. I will never forget Natalie Merchant, year two at Lilith Fair. She. So she was second to last. And then Sarah McLaughlin was always last. I'm going to try not to cry when I tell this story, but the, the artist that was coming out next would always come out and do the last song with the artist that they were replacing. So I want to say she was doing. Oh, she was doing that na na na na na na, that song. And she's on her swing and Sarah McLachlan walked out and started pushing her on the swing and the audience. Cause you're just waiting for Sarah McLachlan all night. You love everybody. You're so happy to see Everybody. But Sarah McLachlan is the main event. And Sarah McLachlan came out and pushed Natalie Merchant on the swing. And they're singing that song together. And then she sat on the swing with her. I was. I can't believe I survived that moment. I cannot believe I didn't spontaneously combust. Little gay me just, I mean, screaming my head like, I can't. Like, it was, it was transformative, that moment for me.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

That's all. That's my swing memory.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So by 1999, year three. Yes, again, tens of thousands of miles. Traveled like 12,000 miles. 110 artists, 40 shows, $2.8 million donated, and as many kids and babies on tour.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Lots of breastfeeding going on and people bringing their mothers to the tour. Lilith here was the place to perform if you were nine months pregnant. You know, I felt like it was perfect. Erica brought a baby to the tour.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Everyone was a mom, and everyone is bringing their kids, and all these babies are at the festival.

[Patrick Hines]

I just love the idea of, like, Suzanne Vega handed off her kid to Natalie Merchant. Natalie Merchant handing her kid off to the Indigo Girl.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But also, like, babies in the audience.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. That is crazy.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Everywhere.

[Patrick Hines]

I did not see that. That would have freaked me out. Like, there's. It's just too many time and a place. But, like, there's lots of breastfeeding going on backstage. That makes me. That's so happy. Like, the fact that, like, so many of these women who will talk about, like, either being on bills with other, like, male artists or being in other festivals and how, like, there was always that sense of competition. But, like, at Lilith Fair, it was just like, tits out, baby suckling.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And I. I know. I just. I do want to be clear. I know, like, I might. I probably sound like an asshole, but I know that it's incredibly hard to be a mother in this society. And especially when you're like, an artist and a mother, like, there's no room for that. So I love, love that everyone felt safe in that moment. I'm just saying, like, if I was going to see, like, Maya was there at 19 years old, Maya, and I'm like, rocking out to Maya, and then there's like, a baby there. I would.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, I'm with you. Like, I don't think babies are safe in the stadium of 20,000 people. I don't like it backstage. Fine. It's okay. Natalie Merchant's kid can come.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But I love that they were like, wow. Like, that was another level of them feeling safe. Like a space that didn't exist for them. Like, it was okay to bring your kid.

[Patrick Hines]

Sean Colvin is there performing nine months pregnant. She's like, the only place I would.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Have felt safe to do that amazing Christina Aguilera, by the way, was at the Quote Village stage.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Yeah, we had Christina on a 10x10 deck in the middle of the field next to the bathrooms. And suddenly this girl starts to sing and the radio's going wild and people.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Are like, you gotta get out here and see this girl.

[Documentary Interviewee]

And that happened all the time.

[Jillian Bezavali]

The small third stage, the 10 by 10 deck next to the bathrooms.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm obsessed.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Christina Aguilera.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Now they go. There's a cause. They're trying to, like, you know, get these charities and organizations that are true to the ca that they believed in. And so they're trying to amplify not just these artists, but also organizations that people might not know or like, they just want to have money. So Planned Parenthood is one of them.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, the thing about Planned Parenthood is that Planned Parenthood should not be controversial.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It is health care.

[Patrick Hines]

It just makes me fucking crazy. And so. And obviously the festival is unabashedly pro choice. Like, obviously. And so they get to this venue.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It'S just pro women, right? It's just like. It's just. Yes. There's so much like, what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

Pro choice doesn't mean that we should be forcing women to have abortions. It just means that people get to decide what they want to do.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Right. It doesn't mean. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? I love.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That's what I was just going to ask, like, when did. When did Planned Parent become this evil abortion factory?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Bezavali]

And not just like a place to get medicine when you need it or health care or get an exam or get. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Like, my sisters went to Planned Parenthood. All of like, that's where they went to get their annual physicals.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I don't. Yeah, I don't understand how you're going to like fear monger. Like, you need. When you hit a certain age, you need to get checked out all the time and then want to burn down the place where we go to get our shit checked.

[Patrick Hines]

That's the whole thing, I think. But I mean, my answer to that is just that, like, of course the patriarchy wants to burn down the one place, but they're going to make abortion the face of it, even though it's not. They make abortion the face of it so they can take away fucking health care from women. That's what they like. It's insane.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It's insane.

[Patrick Hines]

So we're in Texas with Joan Osborne and I was like, is she not going to get if children. If you don't know who Joan Osborne was, please just go Spotify. One the of was one of us. She's got this amazing song about a vibrator called Right Hand man, which is like one of my favorite. So I used to run like. I mean, that song is so fucking good. Joan Osborne is amazing. But she was saying that one of the venues in Texas wanted to exclude Planned Parenthood from being able to be part of the event. Joan Osborne is saying, we were in.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Texas and a venue decided that they wanted to exclude the local Planned Parenthood affiliate from the event. I have a long history working with Planned Parenthood and being a volunteer for them, so it just incensed me.

[Patrick Hines]

Joan Osborne is saying she has got a long history of being a volunteer for Planned Parenthood, which I just loved knowing that from her. And she's saying, like, there was a press conference where Joan Osborne is, like, speaking out and being like, this is fucking bullshit. Because the venue had agreed to take on Lilith Fair. And then after the contracts were signed, they were like, but you can't bring Planned Parenthood.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But. So there was a compromise because Sarah McLachlan still didn't want to, like, rock the boat.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So. But Joan Osborne's like, I didn't make any such compromise because it's like, oh, Planned Parenthood was allowed in, but no one could talk about them. And Joan Osborne is like, watch me. So she and her band wore shirts supporting them.

[Patrick Hines]

Can I tell you a quick side story? A million years ago, I got to interview Linda Perry. She's like the lead singer of the four. She came into a bar that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I was an incredible songwriter. She worked with Pink.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, she produced Pink's album. She. Yes, she. The beautiful album, the whole thing. But she became famous for that. And I wake in the morning. Exactly. And so she came into a bar that I was working out once. We, like, hit it off. And then the next morning, she let me interview her. And you can find the article, it's out there in Girlfriends magazine. But she was telling me the story about when the four non blondes were invited to play on Letterman. And she had her guitar. And on the guitar was the word dyke written in, like, in tape.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That was a fake gasp, everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And after they did the dress rehearsal, they told her to take it off, and she refused. And she said, if you try to make me take that off, I won't go on. And so instead they. Oh, and you can. You can YouTube this. They instead open with a tight shot of the word dyke. Like. Like. Because she stood up to them, they're like, you know what? Fuck that. We're fudgeing wrong. We're going to, like. We're going to celebrate this this morning.

[Jillian Bezavali]

David Letterman has sexually assaulted like three A listers this week.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, uncle.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Unbelievable. Yeah. Like, give me a break. So they're like, now because they're women using their voices. Shocking.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

Dealing with protesters was a daily occurrence. We would get folks that would try to block the, the audience entrance at the parking lots. They would try to bullhorn and shout people out at the ticketed entry. In Atlanta, we had a bomb threat. People want to blow us up because we're pro choice.

[Jillian Bezavali]

There are these like daily protests and death threats and bomb threats. And now security is a major issue.

[Patrick Hines]

Jerry Falwell is going after them.

[Jillian Bezavali]

We can't have nice things fucking ever.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just like, of course this is like women celebrating women and this like festival being a fucking financial juggernaut. Like, of course we're not going to, to like just let that stand.

[Jillian Bezavali]

God, no. You know, well, speaking of, Woodstock 99 happens.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, so in the middle of year three, like, we're right back to train wreck Woodstock 99.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yes. Because Cheryl Crow leaves Lilith to do what?

[Patrick Hines]

And so does Jewel.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And so we cover all the rapes, the assaults, the violence, the destruction, the just like. What's that? The name of that study? It's very famous, but it's like there were two houses and it was like the boy's house and the girl's house and they're all like 11 or 12 years old and the boy's house was destruction in an hour. And the girls was like nice and organized and kind to each other. Yeah, yeah, it was that. Only there's Lila fare and what's not going to happen.

[Patrick Hines]

And like it's such an amazing juxtaposition. Like, I can't believe it didn't come up during the Woodstock documentary that Lilith Fair was happening at the same time. And Sheryl Crow and Jewel performed at both of them. And like Sheryl Crow and Jewel are both here to say like, how awful it was. Like you go there and all like after coming off two years of like women and women loving women and by the way, a bunch of fucking men who all like straight men who would go to lilithaire because they loved.

[Jillian Bezavali]

They're like, Jewel, I love your work, seriously.

[Patrick Hines]

But they go to Woodstock 99 and both of them are here to just.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Say like, it was premeditated. It was self aware in really negative ways. And it was just gasoline on the worst of the 90s male culture.

[Patrick Hines]

It was terrifying.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I just want to say something too, just to go back to that, because we skipped this. It's not just gay men or queer men.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Jewel tells a story of like, there are a lot of metalheads who like my music. And I want to say you would be surprised. Like, I think there. I know a lot of men who maybe look a certain way. Yeah. But really, they're rocking out, too. Oh, sure. I mean, yeah. So I think when given the space. I'm not gonna, like, give men too much credit here, but I think when given the space, people who fucking love music, they just like good shit.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

No matter what it is. I don't care how many fucking tattoos you have. You know what I mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And it's also, like, when we cut to the Images of woodstock99, it's fucking kid Rock, like, talking shit about Monica Lewinsky and, like, Limp Bizkit, like, like, literally making fun of Lilith Ferrer on set. It's so it. Like, the vibe was just awful. And Sheryl Crowe is here to say, like, it was full of, like, angry.

[Documentary Interviewee]

What do you say?

[Jillian Bezavali]

You have everything. What are you so mad about? We asked this when we covered it. What are you so angry about?

[Patrick Hines]

Truly? And it's so. It's just. It was such a beautifully. In this documentary, it was such a beautifully done juxtaposition of, like, this, like, peace, love and getting along to this. And like, we cut back to Sheryl Crow the next day, back at Lilith Fair, doing a press conference, and somebody asks her, like, what was the difference? And she says, and this was so beautiful. It was meant to be funny. And it was. Was. She goes, the day I got back, I ran into Sarah's arms and sobbed into the bosom of the founder of Lilith.

[Jillian Bezavali]

I mean, but. But actually, though.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Wouldn't you go running away screaming?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Especially when you were like, oh, here's this beautiful utopia. And now I've just got dragged to fucking hell. Like, you're going to run back, you're going to run out of.

[Patrick Hines]

Left on her. But she couldn't get out of there. Fashion, terrified. Go back and, like, listen to this episode and then go listen to our episode on Woodstock 99. And like, I mean, compare. It's insane.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But the point is, like, Lilith Fair.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Proved the impact was widespr. There's some fundamental changes in the way women see the idea of possibility that was born at the Lilith Fair.

[Event Organizer/Staff]

These women can sell fucking tickets.

[Patrick Hines]

And we proved that they can sell tickets. Like, all of that other stuff is beautiful. And of course, like, I'm so glad the world knows that. But like, when at the dollars and cents point, like, women. Women can sell tickets.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And also, it inspired a lot of people in a lot of things. Like, Erykah Badu talks about sugar water. Yes. And sugar Water is a festival that was created by Erykah Badu and Queen Latifah and Jill Scott being like, oh, we're doing this. Like, this is something that's super needed in their community. And they did it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Bezavali]

So August 31, 1999.

[Patrick Hines]

No, the last show. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And Sarah's just like, go forth and.

[Patrick Hines]

Do it if possible. They're in Edmonton, Alberta for the last show. Sarah's hometown or home country. I don't know exactly where she's from in Canada, but they wanted. She wanted to do the last show in Canada. And it's pouring rain and it's fucking freezing. And like the thing that, like, always gets me about these things, no one is sad. Like, Sarah's not sad that it's over. She's, I think, like she says, it's been three all encompassing years. This has been my life. I did this thing, like she says, change now. Yes. And she says, like straight up. I was ready to get off the road. She wanted to, to start a family. And so, like, on the last day, even as we see her, we get not enough footage of the last concert because, like, we only get this for like a minute, but, like, we see her going on stage and she's not really that sad. And then we see the final song and everyone is thinking, I am sobbing. It was 5:30 in the morning as I was taking notes on this. This morning I'm in my office, just ball. I'm weeping.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah. She's like, okay, I did it. Now go do your thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Whether that's Sugar water or whatever, or an album or write a song or, I don't know, just be a decent person tomorrow.

[Patrick Hines]

Like that.

[Jillian Bezavali]

That was the whole goal.

[Patrick Hines]

And like, the thing is, and I'm glad that they talked about this because.

[Documentary Interviewee]

Sarah says, I get asked at almost every single interview, are you going to bring Lilith back? We need Lilith. And I'm like, yeah, we do. Or we need something like it. But it would have to look really different because we did Revisit Lilith in 2010 and we didn't succeed. A real cultural shift had happened.

[Patrick Hines]

And she says, in 2010 they brought back Lilith Fair and it did not work. And I remember when they brought it back, I didn't go. I looked at the lineup today. I wasn't super impressed by it.

[Jillian Bezavali]

It was there.

[Patrick Hines]

I can't even remember now. Like, like the Indigo Girls were there. Liz Phair was there. I think Sheryl Crow was there. But, like, it wasn't a super. I Don't know. It didn't feel like it encapsulated, like, the music of the moment. And so, I don't know. I mean, I, you know, I hate knowing that we will probably never have Lilith Fair again. Again.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, I. I agree. It was a moment, but, like, I think this is ending by saying, like. But in a way, it changed everything because now, like, women are at the center of culture. You know, clips of the ERAS tour and, like, Sherlock performing with Olivia Rodrigo and, like, Sarah McLaughlin and Brandi Carile.

[Patrick Hines]

Wait, wait, wait. We have to talk about this because. Oh, God. Okay, okay, okay. We're with Brandi Carlile. We're back at the Gorge now. If you remember the very, very, very first performance of Lilith Ferret. Brandi Carlile was there as a kid up in the bleachers. Like, we like video, home video footage of her. Brandy Carlisle is now a headliner, and she's headlining the Gorge. It's in Washington state. Oh, God, I'm gonna sob. And she's standing there and she says.

[Documentary Interviewee]

I first came here when I was 10 years old, when I was sitting way out there at the crest of that hill, and I witnessed for the first time Lilith Fair.

[Jillian Bezavali]

This is the gorgeous.

[Documentary Interviewee]

This is Sarah McLachlan's house. Please welcome Sarah McLachlan.

[Patrick Hines]

And then she brings Sarah McLachlan out, and Sarah McLachlan thinks building a mystery. And I am losing my mind because to me, there's nothing more like Sarah McLachlan. Creating Lilith Farrer inspired hundreds of thousands of people. But one of them was Brandi Carlile, who was like, I want to do that. And then she went and did it not. She brought back the person who made her want to do it, you know, of course. And like, all throughout this thing, like, we see Bonnie Raitt was here and like, Sheryl Crow, who was so established, but now she's getting to perform with Bonnie Raitt, who inspired her. And Sheryl Crow says at one point, like, we do this because we never know who we're gonna inspire. And like you just said, now we've got Olivia Rodrigo and Sheryl Crow singing together. And Olivia Rodrigo's the big star. Paying it back to Sheryl Crowe. And just that moment where she brought. This is Sarah McLaughlin. I was sobbing.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Kishokro says they defied the odds every single night.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And then it ends with this, like, amazing quote from Erykah Badu.

[Documentary Interviewee]

It was just a village of very intelligent, very powerful, very creative, very mission oriented, very strong women who are staying together Putting a period at the end of a sentence.

[Jillian Bezavali]

We put a period at the end of that sentence. But it's like.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's.

[Jillian Bezavali]

She's 100% right. But it's also like, in my, like, emo state, it's like. Or is it an ellipsis? Like, I know it's like a period in that sentence, but then based on all of these people, sort of like, no, that's possible. And now we can do it this way today.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Jillian Bezavali]

God. I did it, everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

The Lilith Fair documentary. Oh. I don't think I've ever once introduced an episode before today in nine years.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Are you okay? Do you feel good about it?

[Patrick Hines]

I do feel good. It's like. It's what people always ask me about how, like, we're able to go on after a day of, like, after talking about these documentaries. I always say I spend the day in my head about it, and then I get to, like, talk it through with one of my favorite people. And I got to do that today with this. And, like, I am changed for good. You know what I mean? Mean, like, I was putting off watching this because I. I didn't feel like I had the time for the emotional reaction I was gonna have to it, but I let myself. I made the time. I watched it three times. I. Oh, my God. I just love it. I just love it so much. So thank you for putting it on the calendar.

[Documentary Interviewee]

God, of course.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And look, it wasn't just a gift to you. A lot of people wanted us to do it. So this is like, you know, it's our last bonus episode.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, fam. I'm gonna say it. If you. If you've never been to the YouTube, go and watch this one on the YouTube. Because we were. I mean, you're gonna feel like it was in fast forward. Cause we were screaming. I was jumping up and down a lot.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And I hope you got some new music out of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Go get this Fire. I'm not mad if you don't know it. I'm not mad if you don't know it. But go get this Fire on Spotify, wherever you get your music.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And Fiona Apple's entire discography.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, and that, too. Like, just please go. No Paula Cole. That's all I ask.

[Jillian Bezavali]

My ultimate favorite.

[Patrick Hines]

It's my birthday. No, it's not.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But it might be.

[Patrick Hines]

But it might be.

[Jillian Bezavali]

You never know when someone's listening to this.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But, everyone, we love you so much. Thanks for hanging out. For our bonus episodes. We will see you back next year. April 2026 is what we're going to start. We're doing 22 more next year.

[Patrick Hines]

No, our regular Tuesday episodes aren't going anywhere.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Oh, right, no, right. Sorry. I meant like, you know, our, our little Thursday extras. Yeah, but we're going to be recording them starting in December.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, 2025 well, because we, we did a lot of recordings in the last couple months, so let's not do that next year.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Yeah, so we're, we're starting our bonus episodes recording in December, but we will see you on Thursdays, which is going.

[Patrick Hines]

To be wild because it's going to be an episode we record in December that you're to hear in April.

[Jillian Bezavali]

And we're going to be talking about a lot of things that probably won't.

[Patrick Hines]

Matter, won't make any sense in April.

[Jillian Bezavali]

But they matter to us.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. All right, fam. We love you.

[Jillian Bezavali]

We love you.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye.

[Jillian Bezavali]

Bye.