481: The Trouble in Bardstown

Summary

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True Crime Obsessed

Episode 481: The Trouble in Bardstown

Release Date: January 20, 2026
Hosts: Patrick Hines & Julia Bezavalo
Case: The Disappearance of Crystal Rogers (Dateline: The Trouble in Bardstown)

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Episode Overview

This episode offers a detailed, hilarious-yet-heartfelt recap of the Dateline episode “The Trouble in Bardstown,” covering the 2015 disappearance of Crystal Rogers in Bardstown, Kentucky. Patrick, Julia, and commentary from Dateline’s Andrea Canning and Shane McAllister delve into a web of small-town secrets, a series of unsolved murders, family dysfunction, botched coverups, and the slow march of justice. With signature sass and empathy, the hosts break down the case’s twists, the ongoing pain of Crystal’s family, and the stunning eventual break in the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Crystal Rogers – Her Life and Disappearance (05:06–13:15)

• Crystal: Mother to five, described as “born to be a mom—kind, selfless, always in constant contact with her kids.”
• Timeline: Disappeared over 4th of July weekend 2015; last seen by boyfriend, Brooks Houck. Her car was later found abandoned on Bluegrass Parkway—cell phone and purse left inside, one tire flat, and her two-year-old (Eli) with Brooks, not Crystal.
• Family Immediately Alarmed: “There was no doubt in my mind at all. Mom never left that little boy anywhere, not even with his daddy.” – Sherry (Crystal’s mother) [09:56]
• Family and Brooks quickly at odds; Brooks fails to take the lead or engage in the search efforts.

2. The “Brooks Is Sketchy” Club (13:15–16:15, 24:28–42:22)

• Brooks Houck: Local property manager, former sheriff candidate, described as distant, controlling, and suspiciously unbothered.
• Red Flags: Brooks claims Crystal just “needed space” and often disappeared—a story the family vehemently disputes. His alibi involves a bizarre “family walk in a field at 11:30pm with a toddler,” which the hosts and police find implausible.
  • “No two year old is gonna not be losing his shit outside at 11 o'clock.” – Patrick [14:02]
• Home Life: Reports of Brooks’ coldness—refusing to pay for Crystal’s other children’s meals, shutting off utilities so kids “wouldn’t run up the bill,” mother Rosemary’s manipulations.
  • “The whole sense we get from Brooks and his mom is they think they’re fancy and too good for Crystal and her family.” – Patrick [19:57]

3. Early Investigation: Family, Evidence, and Distrust (16:15–24:28)

• Detective Jon Snow: “Hell of a name,” jokes Julia, but he provides key details—flat tire on car, seat pushed too far back for Crystal’s petite frame.
  • “Nobody would just walk away without their purse and cellphone.” – Det. Jon Snow/Patrick [12:47]
• Investigation Hampered: Crystal’s family is unusually competent, having dealt with a prior missing aunt—demonstrates tragic local experience with unsolved crime (23:58).
• Distrust of Law Enforcement: Ongoing local skepticism; family receives more tips than police.

4. Enter Brooks’s Brother Nick – Cop and Fixer (29:51–33:47)

• Nick Houck: Officer in nearby Bardstown, calls Brooks mid-interrogation, instructs him to leave police interview—“Unass that chair!” orders Chief Rick McCubbin, demanding Nick’s cooperation. [31:41]
  • “That chair is still ass.” – Patrick, on Nick’s lack of candor [33:47]
• Nick’s Polygraph: Fails on key questions; argumentative, ultimately fired (“This is how you do it, everybody!” – Julia [39:14]).

5. Trail Runs Cold, But the Family Presses On (42:22–48:52)

• White Buick Lead: Tip comes in about a white Buick spotted near family property the night of Crystal’s disappearance. Quickly sold by the family after publicity; trunk contains hair “matching” Crystal, but not testable.
• Publicity and Pressure: Billboard campaign “BY BROOKS HOUK” points the finger and keeps case visible. Family feels targeted, notably Tommy (Crystal’s dad), who leads searches and receives community tips.

6. A Town Plagued By Murder (52:28–58:52)

• Five unsolved murders in four years in a small town.
• Other Victims:
  • Kathy & Samantha Netherland, mother and daughter murdered in a home invasion (no proven connection).
  • Jason Ellis, police officer ambushed and killed (direct connection via working relationship with Nick Houck).
  • Tommy Ballard (Crystal’s father), murdered while hunting with grandson after leading search efforts.

7. Justice Rising: The Big FBI Break (61:03–67:30)

• FBI Takes Over: Operation Justice Rising—FBI floods Bardstown, searches properties, uncovers secret audio recorders on Houck family land.
• Key 13-Second Call: Night Crystal vanished, Brooks called Steve Lawson, who had just been called by his son Joey—the trio were triangulated near the abandoned car.
  • “Had they not gotten that flat tire and made that 13-second call, we probably wouldn’t have solved this case.” – Andrea Canning/Patrick [71:37]
• Steve Lawson Flips: Under repeated questioning, admits he and his son moved Crystal’s car, connects Brooks to the crime, confirms coverup.

8. Trial and Convictions – But Not Everyone (67:30–74:01)

• Prosecution’s Theory: Brooks lured Crystal to the farm under pretense of a “date” then killed her; family and associates covered it up, but the plan was spoiled by the flat tire and carelessness.
• Results:
  • Brooks Houck: Guilty of murder, sentenced to life.
  • Steve Lawson & Joey Lawson: Conspiracy charges, sentenced to 17 and 25 years.
  • Nick Houck and Rosemary Houck: Not charged but publicly named “unindicted co-conspirators.”
  • Still no body, no murder weapon, and lingering open cases for Tommy Ballard, Jason Ellis, Kathy and Samantha Netherland.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Patrick on Investigators’ Emotion:
  “Andrea Canning is crying. I’m crying. The mom is crying. Everyone is crying. She cannot stop crying.” [03:02]
• Julia on Red Flags:
  “Give me a break, Brooks. Don’t patronize me, bro. Shut up.” [14:50]
• Patrick on Small-Town Shenanigans:
  “They are giving no fucking Bart.” [40:22]
• Chief McCubbin’s Command:
  “You’re going to unass that chair, you’re going to cooperate, and that’s a direct order. … Get your ass over there now.” [31:41]
• Julia on the Family Billboard:
  “It says, ‘MISSING: Crystal Rogers, last seen July 3, 2015 … BY BROOKS HOUK’—right across from the sheriff’s department.” [46:33–47:02]
• On the Importance of the Flat Tire:
  “If they hadn’t gotten the flat tire and Steve Lawson hadn’t made that 13-second phone call, we probably wouldn’t have solved this case.” — Andrea Canning/Patrick [71:37]
• On Being a ‘Punchable Face Dick’:
  “You know what, I love that Rick, the boss, is just taking the line… You should be able to fire someone for being a fucking punchable face dick.” – Julia & Patrick [39:37–39:44]

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• Crystal’s Disappearance, Family’s Fear — [05:06–13:15]
• Initial Brooks Timeline & Field Walk Excuse — [13:18–14:56]
• Discovery of Car, Jon Snow’s Input — [12:15–13:00]
• Nick Houck’s Interference, ‘Unass that chair!’ — [29:51–33:47]
• Evidence: White Buick, Family Behavior — [43:13–44:56]
• Tommy Ballard’s Murder — [48:27–48:59]
• Wider Town Murders & Jason Ellis — [52:28–58:52]
• FBI, Audio Recorders, Break in the Case — [61:03–67:30]
• 13-Second Call Revelation — [62:43–63:05]
• Steve “Y’all Crazy” Lawson Confesses — [65:38–66:30]
• Trial Outcome & Aftermath — [67:30–74:44]
• Remaining Mystery & Family’s Unending Sorrow — [74:11–74:58]

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Tone & Style

The tone is true to the podcast’s style: witty, cutting, deeply empathetic toward the victims, irreverent with suspects, and “true crime for people with feelings and sass.” Pop culture asides (Heated Rivalry, Mayberry, Sex and the City, Tetris), inside jokes (“unass that chair”), and periodic heartfelt moments abound, especially when discussing Crystal’s family.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• In a town wracked with suspicion, corruption, and violence, it was the persistence of Crystal’s family and a twist of fate (a flat tire) that finally cracked the case after years of frustration.
• The episode demonstrates the importance of determined families, the flaws and strengths of law enforcement, and the lasting impact of unsolved crimes on small communities.
• Not everyone is brought to justice, and Crystal’s body remains unfound, but at least some closure has been brought to her loved ones.

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For further series and bonus recaps, visit the TCO Patreon or YouTube, or join their community on Facebook.

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Transcript

[Patrick Hines]

Girl, I've got five words for you and for everybody.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm coming to the cottage.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I have to watch that show. It's heated rivalry, Right? I haven't watched it yet.

[Patrick Hines]

It is. When I tell you the tick tocks of people's reactions to the end of episode five, my entire feed is. Is heated rivalry right now. And I can't watch anything with any with either of those boys without bursting into tears.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Wonderful.

[Patrick Hines]

It is.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I'm in.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm coming to the cottage. It is. Okay, if. You know, I'll get it one day. You will? Definitely.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I can't wait to get it.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, you're gonna love it so much.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Okay, great. I'm in.

[Patrick Hines]

Hi. Julia Bezavalo.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you also coming to the cottage?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, great.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, I'm.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yes. Ending. I don't know what that means. If it's good. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's okay. It's very good. I'm just wondering. I'm just wondering if you. Never mind. You'll understand when you get there.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What do you mean?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I don't want to give anything away, but.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. No, no, no, don't.

[Patrick Hines]

It seems like it could be a men's only cottage, I guess, is all I'm saying.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Oh, that's fine.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? I can have it. I totally have fun.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Be safe.

[Patrick Hines]

They would love you at the conversation.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I got a planet back to.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Exactly, fam. Look, we're supposed to talk about the Facebook group, but I want to tell you that we've got 200,000 subscribers on YouTube.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I can't believe. As of this recording, and we're a couple weeks ahead, so I don't know. I mean, that's so crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Y' all are checking us out. Please go watch us. It's so much fun. 200,000 subscribers on YouTube. It is so crazy.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Wild.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, join the Facebook group. It's the true crime obsessed podcast discussion group.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And Patreon.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Patreon.

[Patrick Hines]

We've got like 500 full ad free bonus episodes.

[Shane McAllister]

So many.

[Patrick Hines]

We're starting that Philadelphia Mafia thing. It's insane.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Skinny Joey Marlino.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't. I can't. As I was taking my notes on it today, I'm like, I'm barely going to talk in this episode. Like you're going to. This is so your wheelhouse references.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I got.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God, it's wild.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know. It's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it when they bug a building. It's my favorite thing.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, we'll get to it.

[Patrick Hines]

All right. Wrong. We're not there yet. Speaking of, what are we talking about today?

[Julia Bezavalo]

So this is a Dateline episode called the Trouble in Bardstown. It is the Crystal Rogers case. So this is a case that people have been wanting us to cover for years. Yeah, there's a six part oxygen thing from like 2018.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, wow.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's too old, too long. So when this Dateline came out, my DMs were flooded of like, oh, there's finally something to like cover about this.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So it's season 34, episode 7, and Andrea Canning is our host.

[Andrea Canning]

You know, people go missing every single.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Day, but a mother who's in constant contact with her kids, that was getting everyone's attention.

[Shane McAllister]

This is a mystery of where is Crystal Rogers?

[Andrea Canning]

We want to know why and how the car ends up on the Bluegrass Parkway.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Mom would have never left her car. Just on the side of the road.

[Andrea Canning]

One of the rear tires is flat and we felt like that the positioning of the seat was not proper for where she would have had it. What do you think happened?

[Patrick Hines]

I'm shocked. I do not know.

[Andrea Canning]

I'm holding the answer to it. We come out every day hoping we'll find something.

[Shane McAllister]

Crystal's dad, Tommy, kind of started his own armchair investigation very early.

[Andrea Canning]

People were talking to Tommy and people were getting nervous. I'm not stopping till I find her.

[Patrick Hines]

Before we get into it, can I just say I had a realization today that all of these Dateline hosts, they really go through it each and like Joshi Manx has the way that he deals with it. Keith has his. Andrea Canning is sobbing start to finish in this episode. And what I love about her is that like this bullshit, like journalists can't have emotions thing. Andrea Canning is crying. I. I'm crying. The mom is crying. Everyone is crying. She cannot stop crying.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

I make a note of it. I love her. I love her so much.

[Julia Bezavalo]

She's great.

[Patrick Hines]

Bring the emotion. Journalist.

[Julia Bezavalo]

We want it.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, so she says that this, it's Bardstown, Kentucky, and she says it's been called America's most beautiful small town. And Andrea Canning says to someone, it's kind of like Mayberry, right? And I'm like, what? I had to look that up.

[Patrick Hines]

It's like an old timey TV show thing, right?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's like the fictional, perfect little town where the Andy Griffith show took place.

[Patrick Hines]

That's what it is.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So if you don't know the Andy Griffith show, there are so many names and things that have just like perme pop Culture from that show. Like, that's not my. I know I'm an old soul, but, like, I'm totally. I don't have anything.

[Patrick Hines]

I've never seen that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know that, like, Ron Howard was Opie.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that. Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And they say an almost famous. Who brought Opie.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, really?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It was a bulk. Thank William. Also Barney Fife. You know that name? Barney Fife, Andy's deputy, is his bumbling but neurotically hilarious cousin, Barney Fife. Among Andy's Mayberry friends is the town's resident barber, Floyd.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, they're having a grand old time.

[Julia Bezavalo]

In Mayberry, But Andrea Canning said it. Like, we should all know what that was.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And I was like, what is that? I was like, andy, we're going to the Andy Griffith Show.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, Canning had to give it a go, too. She's like, what are we talking about?

[Julia Bezavalo]

The guy was like, no, totally. Like, they were on the same page about it. We were not.

[Patrick Hines]

Andrea Canning can't stop watching heated rivalry. Like, that's all she wants to watch.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But to your point, like, Andrew. Yes. Personal points of reference that, you know, like, get a little personal sometimes.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. We're going to get right into the case, I promise. But I realize by the time this episode comes out, everyone's going to be so overheated. Rivalry. They're going to be like, grandpa, what are you. Are you still talking about those gay guys?

[Julia Bezavalo]

There's going to be some scandal. They're all going to be canceled.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. Totally.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, who the hell knows what we're doing right now?

[Patrick Hines]

I will try not to be insufferable about it, but you know how it goes. When I promise that or you'll find.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Something else to be interested in tomorrow.

[Patrick Hines]

That's true.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He rivalry marked safe.

[Patrick Hines]

So what was from Patrick? So, Anyway, it's the 4th of July weekend, 2015. We learn about Crystal, and Crystal was, like, born to be a mom. She had five kids.

[Shane McAllister]

It seems to me that Crystal was born to be a mom.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yes. She was a very good mom. She had five children, and she even took care of some other kids that weren't hers.

[Patrick Hines]

She was even taking care of other kids who, like, weren't her kids that, like, needed taken care of.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. Sherri, Crystal's mom is here, and she tells us all about Crystal, and, yeah, like, she was born to be a mom. And Ashley is Crystal's oldest daughter. And so she tells us about this July 4th weekend, and everyone was, like, really looking forward to the celebrations. Now Dayline on the bottom, lower third how do you usually celebrate 4th of July? I'm like, dateline, we don't have time for this.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But I looked at Dateline, what you do for July 4th. Like, what are you talking? The way who celebrates the Fourth of July anymore?

[Patrick Hines]

I. God. I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Not me.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. But, like, the way that Dateline wants the. But I bet people do it. I bet people. You know what I mean? I bet people really are. You know what? I love that. Andrea Cannon just asked me that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Dateline. We don't have time.

[Patrick Hines]

We don't.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, we have to get to the bottom of this.

[Patrick Hines]

I also do love, though, that, like, they go to the family farm for, like, the Fourth of July festival. Like, how wholesome does that sound?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It is very. It's very Mayberry.

[Patrick Hines]

Is that the truth is very, very Mayberry.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, it is Mayberry.

[Patrick Hines]

I think you did it. It's very Mulberry, if you ask.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It is. It's like Mulberry.

[Patrick Hines]

So. Mulberry.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Eli is two and a half years old and he's Crystal's youngest.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So we learn like this the July 4th weekend. No one can get in touch with Crystal. Her. Ashley, her daughter's trying to get in touch with her. Sherry, her mother. People are talking themselves out of being.

[Patrick Hines]

Worried because it's really unusual. Crystal, like, answers every. She's me. She answers every text in five seconds. She's always in commit. Like, this family is also very, very close.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

So the fact that, like, Crystal's not responding makes no sense to anybody.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So now it's Sunday. And Brooks, her boyfriend, he also. By Sunday, he's like, oh, by the way, I don't know if this is anything. I also haven't heard from her.

[Patrick Hines]

She lives with Brooks, with all of her kids. Eli is Brooks's son. And by. And by. By Sunday, he's now telling the family he hasn't heard from her.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. So now it's 36 hours since anyone has.

[Patrick Hines]

I love that we're not pretending that we don't, like, hate Brooks. Thank you so much.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Brooks.

[Patrick Hines]

I.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Give me a break.

[Patrick Hines]

The thing is, I kind of love names like that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's great. I'm saying Brooks like him.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Guy and his fucking brother. Don't even get me started.

[Patrick Hines]

Nick.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So, like, Nick the brother.

[Patrick Hines]

I know Nick and Brooks, girl. Hers is back. Look, it's a new year, girl. It's time to get back to feeling like you.

[Julia Bezavalo]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, the whole, like, having access to a medical professional thing is huge.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. You have to do it with a professional. You can just do it under the table.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavalo]

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[Julia Bezavalo]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

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[Patrick Hines]

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[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, that makes sense.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

36 hours since anyone has heard anything from Crystal and Tommy. Her dad, like, her family's so amazing. Her dad is leading the search with Sherry, her mom, and Ashley, her daughter. And they all go to the sheriff's department.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, we'll get into this later. But, like, this family is primed to know how to do this, which is the saddest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So on the way to report Crystal missing, they run into Brooks, the boyfriend, and he's like, yeah, I haven't seen her since Friday.

[Shane McAllister]

Oh, and also, Sherry saw something that sent her pulse racing. Sitting in the back seat was Eli, Crystal and Brooks's son.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The minute I saw that baby, there was no doubt in my mind at all. Mom never left that little boy anywhere, not even with his daddy. Very, very bad time.

[Patrick Hines]

Right away, the family sees Eli without his mother, and they're like, that would never happen. Not even, like, to be with his dad without her. Like, that would never happen.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Brooks is admitting he hasn't seen Crystal since Friday.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And he isn't calling anybody about it. Like, here's another trend, very what in the Scott Peterson of it. But, like, the family and Brooks are never working together on this.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You would think everyone would be in it together, and they're immediately not from the beginning. And that's a major red flag.

[Patrick Hines]

No. And so, like, the mom and the daughter get to the police station to report her missing, and they find out that Crystal's car has been found on the side of the highway. It's the Bluegrass Parkway. And, like, Crystal was not with the.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Car, and it's clear that it's been abandoned.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Now we meet Detective Jon Snow. And I'm like, hell of a name. That's a Game of Thrones, you know, nothing.

[Andrea Canning]

Jon Snow.

[Patrick Hines]

And his name is Jon Snow.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Jon Snow. Jon in Game of Thrones is J, O, N. But this guy's Jon, like, with an H. That's why I was like, your name is Jon Snow. You must have had a wild few years when Game of Thrones was the biggest thing on the planet.

[Patrick Hines]

It also feels like the name Jon Snow wouldn't be that unusual.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's a great name. It's like the King of the north in the winter is Game of Thrones. It was good until they fucking ruined it. Here's the thing about Game of Thrones that I think is, like, fascinating as a society thing. It was the biggest pop culture thing ever. And they messed up the ending so terribly that nobody talks about it anymore, and it tainted the entire series. That's because George R.R. martin didn't finish the book series, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like the 90s. Yeah, like the 90s. He had so long. And then they, like, didn't have anywhere to go, so they kind of invented. And then they got bored and wanted to do some Star wars thing or whatever. The creators, they just rushed. It was a nightmare.

[Patrick Hines]

And this is the last. I'm not gonna let myself say anything else, but all I'm gonna say is this is my fear for heated rivalry Season two is that everyone loves. It's gonna be, like, wicked the second part where everyone loved the first one so much that, like, everyone's gonna hate it just automatically when it comes out.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Maybe the boys, they're still going to.

[Patrick Hines]

Be that cute, though.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay. Moving. I promise I won't say another word in this, in this episode. But John Snow, we are recording another episode of something else today. So we'll see what happens.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, we'll see. But I also haven't watched it, so I can't.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I haven't watched yet.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm coming to the cottage.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I will. Okay. So Detective Jon Snow tells us one.

[Andrea Canning]

Of the rear tires is flat.

[Shane McAllister]

I mean, that seems reasonable that that could happen to someone on a, on a highway like this. But this is a missing woman.

[Andrea Canning]

Well, and what's unusual is there was no signs of anybody trying to change the time.

[Shane McAllister]

Even stranger, Crystal's car keys were still in the ignition, her phone and purse on the front seat.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Crystal's keys were in the ignition, her phone is in the front seat, and her purse is there too. Like, come on.

[Patrick Hines]

And even Jon Snow says the obvious. Like, nobody would just walk away without their person's cell phone.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Give me a break.

[Patrick Hines]

Insane.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Especially when you have a flat tire and you're like, presumably walking for help. You would just leave all your shit there.

[Patrick Hines]

No, absolutely not.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Give me a break.

[Patrick Hines]

Ye.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So the cops want to talk to the family. Of course. They're starting close, working their way out. What are these family dynamics? What's going on here?

[Patrick Hines]

And so now when we, like, learn about Brooks. So Brooks is from the area. He's like a self made guy. He made a name for himself in construction and property management. And like, he's doing really well, which is also so crazy to me. Why can't you just go and live your good, happy, successful, rich life?

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So here's the timeline, a la Brooks or Alafranc.

[Patrick Hines]

And we see the interview, like Brooks gives the timeline in this police interview that we're watching. And I will say where he's different from Scott Peterson is that he does. Look, remember Scott Peterson's interview with the cops? He's just like sitting there like he didn't give a shit. Brooks is at least pretending to care.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Look, he comes down to the station without an issue, he comes down without a lawyer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And he's here to say his timeline. So Friday night, he was with Crystal, everything was fine. They took Eli, the two and a half year old, on what he calls a, quote, family outing to the family farm. And they walked around a Field for several hours.

[Patrick Hines]

Can we pause here for just a second? Because the cops will say this later, but I made a note the first time I watch it. This is insane.

[Andrea Canning]

Why would you have a two and a half year old child out walking around in a cow field at 11:30 at night? Which is strange, right?

[Patrick Hines]

No two year old is gonna not be losing his shit outside at 11 o'. Clock. It's boring. They're exhausted. As soon as I heard this, I was like, this is the guy?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. They walked around in a field for several hours, he says. And I'm like, okay. So he was in bed by 11:30. Crystal stayed up later, had some alone time playing games on her phone.

[Patrick Hines]

Playing. Not Tetris, he says. I'm like, is this 1988?

[Julia Bezavalo]

He's like, calm down, Brooks.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't care. I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What a weird detail. How do you know? I thought you were in bed asleep.

[Patrick Hines]

Great. She's playing Candy Crusher. He's like one of those bubble games.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Let her play what she wants to play, not play Tetris. Let her play Tetris.

[Patrick Hines]

By the way, Tetris is a great game.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's a great. It's one of the original.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, literally everything.

[Julia Bezavalo]

We wouldn't have Candy Crush if not Tetris.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, you're absolutely right. Tetris walks. So Candy Crush can fly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yes. 100. So the next morning, Brooks wakes up. Eli is next to him, and Crystal is just gone. And I'm like, brooks, don't patronize me, bro. Shut up.

[Patrick Hines]

Because he's trying to say that that wasn't that strange, that like, this was not the first time Crystal had taken off.

[Andrea Canning]

She's done this about four or five times it ever went this period of time. And she usually sent me, you know, text messages in that period.

[Shane McAllister]

He said Crystal sometimes needed her space and would visit family for a day or so. But this time was different.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's why he wasn't worried and that's why he didn't tell anyone she was missing. Bullshit.

[Patrick Hines]

No, it's also that thing where like, again, we've got all the information because we're watching the documentary, but the family is like, absolutely. Crystal would never just like abandon all of her. All of her kids live with her at this guy's house. But Eli, her two and a half year old, she's not going to be away from him for a couple of days just to blow off steam.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And she would like gently place the two and a half year old next to Brooks and then like sneak out of the House. Give me a break.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely not.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So. But also, guess what? They're not fighting. They've never fought. There are no money problems. Nobody's cheating. Everything is amazing. No, it's not. Brooks.

[Patrick Hines]

And they check out Brooks's story, and they've got this security footage from, like, a neighbor's ring cam where they see his car driving in the direction of the family farm at the time that he said he was going there.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Driving back at the time he said he left.

[Patrick Hines]

It tells us nothing they're using. They have this in here just so we can see some video.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They're like, oh, this totally confirms the story.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Well, it totally confirms his story of, like, taking his wife out to a farm for two and a half hours and then not seeing her for three days. It sure does confirm that story.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, but, like, great. He was there.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

During that time. But it doesn't confirm they were just walking in a freaking field for three hours. Give me.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely not.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Shane McAllister is here. She works for Dateline now, but at the time, she was a rookie reporter, and she's covering the case. Boots on the ground. And she made a podcast called Bardstown.

[Patrick Hines]

I wanted to give Shane her propers. I was like, you were. You made a podcast working for, like, a Louisville station, and now you work for Dateline girl. You did it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And she was like, the consultant. She was like the Dateline consultant there. And now she's here telling us everything she knows about the case. Like, hell, yeah, Shane.

[Patrick Hines]

Good job, Shane.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So the cops do a press conference, and Jon Snow's like, oh, God, we got so many tips. Like, today to Andrea Canning. He was like, oh, Andrea, the tips. You have no idea.

[Patrick Hines]

Sometimes it's, like, a bad thing. You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

More often than not, it is distracting and not helpful. They do that. Everyone's boyfriend's fault.

[Patrick Hines]

It's everyone's boyfriend's fault. They're seeing her all over the country. People are reporting her in Rhode Island. Can you not, like. Can you please not. We're not, you know, please.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So let's learn a little bit more about Crystal Rogers. She was born and raised in Bardstown. She's the.

[Patrick Hines]

By the way, Bardstown's a great name for a town.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's a great name.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean? They also described it early on as being, like, in the heart of Kentucky's bourbon country. I was like, do I live in Bardstown now?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Everything I know about Kentucky, I know from Justified, so. Which is not Much.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? I've done shows in Louisville. A couple that always. Amazing.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Great crowd, everyone. So everyone brings me a bottle of bourbon.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Should I do a show in Kentucky next weekend? You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

You, like, look at your supply. You're like, I know, Steve. The demand is off the charts for Kentucky. I simply have to go for a long weekend.

[Patrick Hines]

One long weekend. I'll be right back.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So Bardstown. She is the oldest of three children. She was shy, but everyone loved her. She had a heart of gold. Super close with her family.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Shane McAllister]

And we're told that at 19, she took a job at a bank and had her first child. Motherhood came naturally to Crystal. Her love life was more complicated. She'd eventually have more relationships, more kids, and even marry once before separating.

[Patrick Hines]

Her mother is saying that, like, motherhood came naturally to her relationships. Not as much.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She was in a bunch of different relationships, and she had, like, a couple kids. But, like, she loves her kids, and it seems like she's got good relationships with the parents of the children. Like, everything is great. Like, everything is going well for her.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. But Crystal, like, she's looking for love. Nothing's working out. And now she meets Brooks, who. This is super messy. Was her landlord and then asked her out.

[Patrick Hines]

This guy does this. This is not the last time we're going to hear this about this guy in this episode.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's so gross.

[Patrick Hines]

It's really gross. So.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But Crystal was happy. You know, we learned that, like, he had his life together, Brooks had his life together, which is what she was looking for.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, also comes from a local family. He'd run for sheriff. I love this. They dig into the archives and find, like, a Brooks weirdo for sheriff ad.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But they also really make sure that we know he had zero law enforcement background.

[Patrick Hines]

What is he thinking?

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, what is anyone thinking?

[Patrick Hines]

I just. Can you imagine being the head cop with no law enforcement enforcement experience?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yes. I think that people absolutely want to have the power of feeling like they're a big, tough cop without actually having an experience. Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

They say it was a unique campaign.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. I'm like, oh, was it?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So he lost them.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Rosemary is not here, but she's Brooks's mom. And at first, everyone wants us to know that she was very nice to Crystal, including Crystal's four children who were not Brooks's biological kids. And I'm like, I love how they have to call that out because people are such assholes that they wouldn't be nice to Children.

[Patrick Hines]

The thing about this Rosemary, who I fucking hate, number one, she was a former daycare owner. And having been on that battlefield for exactly one week of my life, I see her. That's the only thing I like about her. She like they say that Sherry says.

[Shane McAllister]

Brooks's mom Rosemary, a daycare owner, also seemed to to welcome Crystal and her kids into the family.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They had a good relationship. She actually brought crayons and coloring book to the kids once when she came over.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause she one time brought coloring books and crayons to the house for some of the children. She did that one time.

[Julia Bezavalo]

One time. The bar is in hell.

[Patrick Hines]

The whole sense we get from Brooks and his mom is that like they think they're fancy and that they're like too good for Crystal and her family.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. Then don't be with Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You know what I mean? Like Crystal's awesome. Let her go find love somewhere else.

[Patrick Hines]

But also, if you love Crystal and you're gonna be with her, stand up to your mom, Brooks, and tell her like to fucking nice.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, girl. Haya is back.

[Shane McAllister]

Look.

[Patrick Hines]

These are the vitamins for kids that kids should actually be taking.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So everyone's talking about their New Year's resolutions, which is great.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But here's the one change that can impact your family for decades to come. And that's your kids health, everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well listen, the thing that keeps me up at night as a dad, our kids generation is the first generation of kids growing up with ultra processed foods and the long term effects. Right. And we're only beginning to understand them. So while everyone else is promising to hit the gym more in 20, 20, 26, I'm focusing on something that'll actually stick. Better nutritions for my kiddo.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So this is like not just like candy vitamins. This is real vitamins.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Okay, so your kids are actually gonna love them because they're delicious.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And usually like most of those like candy vitamins have up to 7 grams of sugar per serving and are stuffed with artificial additives and all this disgusting stuff. No, Haya took the opposite approach. There's zero sugar, zero gummy junk. Just clean nutrition.

[Patrick Hines]

It's also non gmo, vegan, dairy free, allergy free, nut free. They thought of everything. Oh, and here's something every parrot needs to hear. If getting your kids to eat the veggies feels like an impossible daily battle, like it does with my kid, highest new kids daily greens plus superfoods is a total game changer. Daisy had hers this morning. It's basically chocolate milk stuffed with veggies.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Whoa.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. It's a green powder that's packed with 55 plus whole food sourced ingredients. All you do is you mix one scoop with milk or any non dairy beverage and watch them actually enjoy something that's secretly fueling their growing bodies. Daisy loves it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Love this. And guess what? We worked out a special deal with Haya for their best selling children's vitamin. Receive 50 off your first order fam.

[Patrick Hines]

To claim this deal, you must go to hyahealth.com tco this deal is not.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Available on their regular website. So go to H I Y a H E a l t h.com/tco and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults.

[Patrick Hines]

Zachary, we love the whole thing. Daisy loves all of it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know. And I love the stickers.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Krystal is pregnant with Eli, who is her fifth child. And now she starts working for Brooks as a property manager. And she's collecting rent. And she's dealing with all these issues and dealing with tenant problems, including evictions and going to court. So the thought is like, oh, wait, maybe there was some disgruntled tenant that wanted to hurt Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

But then like, they look into this for five seconds and they realize, like, this is not, not the case. Like, evictions are always messy, but like, nobody was gonna kill her.

[Shane McAllister]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You know, like, nothing panned out with that. And Keith Rogers is the father of two of Crystal's kids, and she met up with him the day before she went missing. And the cops are like walking red flag. No, he's cleared. This is a totally routine thing because they had a great relationship.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And they were in contact a lot. And he saw the kids a lot. And like.

[Patrick Hines]

And the same with the other dads. There's no issues with the other dads of the kids. So the detectives get the forensic results from Crystal's car. There's no blood. There's no sign of a struggle. But there's one important thing, and we see this all the time in edits.

[Julia Bezavalo]

This reminded me of the Bob Ruff episode we did of Web of web of death. Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

These people are so dumb.

[Andrea Canning]

We felt like that the positioning of the seat was not proper for where she would have had it too far.

[Shane McAllister]

Back or too far.

[Andrea Canning]

It was too far back for her to have been driving the vehicle when it was left on the parkway.

[Shane McAllister]

So you're like, it looks like a taller person has been driving and just didn't readjust the seat.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

The positioning of Crystal's driver side car seat was off. Like she was tiny. And it's like the seat is pushed all the way back because clearly some other tall person drove it and left it where it was found on the highway.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Exactly.

[Andrea Canning]

How.

[Patrick Hines]

How dumb are these people?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Extremely.

[Patrick Hines]

We're going to learn later. I'm just going to say this now so we don't forget the person that we find out eventually who did leave the car here. Even tried to readjust it to make it look, but didn't do it good enough.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You know what mean? I mean, okay, 1979, Crystal's aunt goes missing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

She was seven months pregnant. She was killed and she was found two years later. And so this is what you were saying earlier about, like, why Crystal's family is so good at forming a search party and making moves. Because they've been through this.

[Patrick Hines]

They knew what to do. They searched for Crystal's dad's sister for two and a half years.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, they eventually found her. God love them.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But like, so when Crystal goes missing, like, they know what to do. How sad is that?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It must be incredibly surreal to be. Oh, well, here's what we did last time.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the first time Andrea Canning is crying. She's like. And so it's like he's going through it all over again. The dad.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's horrible. So Team Crystal is formed. We have the search party. Family, friends, community. Everyone is involved except for one person. Can you guess who that person is?

[Patrick Hines]

I know Brooks was just not there.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And that was the top question. Why aren't you searching for her at.

[Shane McAllister]

A press conference, Law enforcement didn't seem that concerned. In fact, they insisted Brooks was doing what he could. Could.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The cops are on tv, like, letting everyone know how cooperative he's been. So I don't think he's a suspect yet. He's been really cooperative. He's just not participating in any way with the family. I don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, what the reason for being, like, don't go. Because again, if it were Steve, if it were you, if it was anybody that I loved, I'd be like, you're gonna have to chain me to this chair to not be out in the fucking woods.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Kick rocks, go scratch. I'm going on this search party.

[Patrick Hines]

Do I want to be the one to find Jillian's body? No. No. But what am I gonna do otherwise?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Sit home?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I don't care if someone. I don't know the reasoning. They don' what it is. I don't know. But this idiot boyfriend goes on Nancy Grace to defend himself. What in the. Scott Peterson.

[Patrick Hines]

The thing about this too is I get the sense he was not an invited guest.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He called in because this is not a sit down interview. He does not have a lawyer.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Does not have anyone around him who's telling him. Good advice.

[Patrick Hines]

It feels like they weren't even talking about his wife. It feels like he just called in and was like, in case anyone's talking about me, by the way, Nancy Grace.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Is probably like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Get him on the phone before he comes to his senses and hangs up.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, we're going live right now. Can you imagine how thrilled she must have been when that phone call comes through? It's Brooks trying to fucking defend himself. She was probably like, great, keep yapping.

[Patrick Hines]

Remember the time we saw her at that convention walking through a room, waving at nobody.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, waving at no one. She thought people were like, there was going to be a crowd.

[Patrick Hines]

Waving at nobody. Nancy Grace.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And I was like, are you seeing what I'm seeing?

[Patrick Hines]

We were. We were setting up our little booth and we were watching. We were like, nancy, there's nobody here. Who are you waving at?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like royalty.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But that's true. She's got it, like. And basically, like, I got to keep going.

[Patrick Hines]

I really can't. I'd like to stop. They won't let me.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, as you can see. As you can see, Please, no pictures.

[Patrick Hines]

Wild.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Brooks speaks to the cops for a second time.

[Andrea Canning]

What? What else do you want to know? Take a minute.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's all right.

[Andrea Canning]

No, it's.

[Shane McAllister]

Again, Brooks was cooperative. He even gave Detective Snow his cell phone.

[Andrea Canning]

Whatever you ask me, I'll be more than happy to do.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He's emotional, but, like, not over the top emotional. Right? Like, he's doing everything right. He's helpful. He's giving the cops his cell phone. He wants to help. He'll do whatever it takes to.

[Patrick Hines]

He says, well. And this is where Detective Snow finally asks him about that two and a half hour walk around the fudgeing woods in the middle of the night.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Because they're like, oh, his timeline has like, a lot more details now. And this is where we have a problem. And I'm like, wait, why didn't the cops know about the timing the first time around? It seems like basic information. If I'm asking you when, how long were you in the field?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Shouldn't that have come up in the first conversation?

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I'm just glad he's calling him on it now because I think the thing is, and I don't think we always get these, especially in Dateline episodes. They don't want to let on yet the Brooks is probably the bad guy because we. What I think Detective Snow is navigating in this is that like at this point Snow knows there, there's something going on, but he's got like Brooks is being cooperative. He doesn't want to get combative with Brooks. So he's trying to keep. He's like, tell me a little bit more. That sounds strange, right, girl?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, what's strange is that the more the new details that Brooks tells them is that it was super cold and it was raining.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So you're telling me that a Todd. You walked a toddler in the rain?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

For three hours at night in the freezing cold.

[Patrick Hines]

But two and a half year olds are heavy. It's not like he's asleep in Crystal's arms.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Also, the cops should be like, why? Trying to get your child sick.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You know what I mean? Like that's a problem too.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just like anybody who's ever spent any time with a child is hearing this story, being like, this didn't happen.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. Even, even those of us who don't. I'm like, no one wants to be walking, wandering in the rain aimlessly for no reason for three and a half hours from 7:30 to 11:30 or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely not.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Stop it.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we also learn that on the night that Krista went missing, Brooks had a 13 second call with a guy named Steve Larson. Now here's the thing. Brooks can't remember what the call was about. I am calling total bullshit on this.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, so he calls Steve in front of Jon Snow.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And put Steve on speakerphone. He's like, hey Steve, other night you.

[Andrea Canning]

Called me really, really late and I forgot. I forgot what you asked me. Can you remember what you asked me or what you were after? I can't remember.

[Patrick Hines]

I called ask you for them for a house.

[Andrea Canning]

Oh, for a rental house. Yes, sir. It seems to have been a preplanned phone call.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I called you for a very routine, not at all suspicious work thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. That only took 13 seconds.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Jon Snow is like, this is a rehearse phone call.

[Patrick Hines]

Like watching it. By the way, we're seeing this phone call happen on video and it's like the fakest thing you've ever seen.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's so beyond obvious. And also, Brooks is super nonchalant. Like he's leaning back, his legs are crossed. He's not Worried about Crystal at all. He's so focused on letting everyone know how helpful he's being that he's forgetting to be concerned about Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

Let me just say this too. It's a small detail, but, like, there's another case that I'm totally obsessed with. I won't bore you all with the details now, but in that case, there's another phone call, like a crucial phone call that the person involved says they can't remember either. They don't. They don't remember making the call, but the call is on their call log. And it's like a one minute long call. And I'm like, that's not. That would never happen.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

In real life, there's no way. Brooks would not remember what his employee called the toxic him about the other day. Yeah, he would. Like, as soon as he said, I don't remember what that was about, that was the other alarm bells going off for me.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. This is all manufactured.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But then we get another phone call and it's Nick, the brother. Brooks's brother.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Nick is a cop.

[Shane McAllister]

He was an officer with neighboring Bardstown Police Department, and he seemed to be giving Brooks advice.

[Andrea Canning]

It's clear that he's pretty animated. He's. He's a little excited about the fact that Mr. Houk is still there. I know you've told me innocent people have got jammed up, but if you're telling me to leave, I'll get up and leave. He thinks y' all is what he thinks.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Nick tells his brother to shut the hell up and get the hell out of there immediately. Now, everything else aside, Nick is not wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

No, I agree with all of that. This also feels rehearsed. This also feels like I'm going on a blind date. Can you call me 30 minutes in.

[Julia Bezavalo]

To see if I'm having bad happens?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, because like, we can hear Nick yelling through the phone to get the hell out of there. And then.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That was for Mike Johnson, by the way. That was the. Something bad happened. The Charlotte the sex in the city thing, which is literally what Charlotte has carried. Call her and say just a casual Mike Jensen shout out, charlotte, it's me. Something bad happened. Something bad happened.

[Patrick Hines]

That is so funny. But, like, then you hear Brooks going, you're saying that I should leave? Yeah, well, if you're saying that I should leave, then I will go now. Nick has some fucking nerve because he's a cop in the neighboring town. It's the same police chief for like, he's basically like, calling into his own job telling the guy to get out of this investigation.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Brooks leaves, goes directly to the family farm to talk to his brother, the cop. Getting advice. Advice and coming up with a plan.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So now the cops obviously want to speak to his brother Nick. And my first immediately is like, they're not going to get shit out of this conversation. This guy's a cop, and this is his brother. He's not saying a word.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, so exactly what happens? Detective Snow calls the brother and is like, can you come in? And he's like, no, I would really not like to.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And so enter Rick McCubbin.

[Patrick Hines]

Obsessed with this guy, Chief of police.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Nick, the brother's boss.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He gets wind of this, and he's like, I'm sorry, what? And Nick's like, but I don't want to. And Rick goes, we took an oath. You don't get to not.

[Patrick Hines]

And he says to Nick, I was.

[Andrea Canning]

Getting madder at him. I finally got to the point. My exact quote. I said, you're going to unass that chair. You're going to cooperate. And that's a direct order. And I said, get your ass over there now.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Get your ass over there now.

[Patrick Hines]

Unass that chair. Let me ask you that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, they're fighting on the phone. They get into a major argument because Nick the brother is fighting this so much that Rick finally has to say, like, unass that goddamn chair.

[Patrick Hines]

I've never heard that expression. I'm obsessed with it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It feels very Kentucky. And I say that as a compliment.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I say that like Raylan Givens would say. It justified people.

[Patrick Hines]

Is this legal? Like, can I, his boss, force him to go participate in this investigation, do you think?

[Julia Bezavalo]

I think Rick said, we took an oath. You don't get to not. Like, this is what. This is the whole. I know that we forget about this now because everyone is such a fudgeing nightmare, but, like, protect and serve used to be a thing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And so if you take the oath, like, there is a missing woman here, your brother may or may not be involved. You need to help this.

[Patrick Hines]

You need to job unasked.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That job in your jurisdiction. This is your job. I don't care.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Like, will you do me a favor and unass that chair and go watch the rivalry? Thank you so much. I promise I said I would try.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Okay. It takes six days, but Nick the brother, finally sits down with the cops. Like, six days of plotting and planning and getting stories straight and, like, avoiding any accountability at all.

[Patrick Hines]

It's just so crazy. And he's trying to tell the cops. He barely knew Crystal. He rarely sees his.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Barely knows his own brother. Like, what? He's like, I barely know my brother. But what I do know is that he didn't hurt.

[Patrick Hines]

He would never.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Crystal. You said Crystal with a C. Okay, well, my brother, who I barely know, he would definitely never, ever, ever, ever do anything like that. And I'm like, well, which is it, bra?

[Patrick Hines]

But Detective Snow is like, so remember when you called and told your brother to leave the meeting with me, and then he went and met you at the farm right after? Tell me about that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

No.

[Patrick Hines]

Nick's like, I don't really remember. I don't really know about that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I don't know. So the cops are like.

[Shane McAllister]

Then they asked him point blank if he was involved in Crystal's disappearance.

[Andrea Canning]

So you never helped him move a body? I did not. Never helped him move any evidence? Never.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, did you kill Crystal Rogers? No. Did you help your brother move her body? No. Did you help your brother destroy evidence? Never. I'm like, oh, that. He definitely did that one.

[Patrick Hines]

He may be in that room, but as far as I'm concerned, that chair is still ass.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's ass. It's full ass. 100% ass.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Nick, the brother's like, I swear, up and down, nothing bad happened, but he agrees to a polygraph, which is insane.

[Patrick Hines]

Idiots.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He's a cop.

[Patrick Hines]

But, I mean, I feel like he can't say no. He's officially unasked the chair.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Then I'm like, oh, these people always think they can outsmart it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, of course he's gonna be like, sure.

[Patrick Hines]

Wait, can I ask you a question? Do you think polygraphs work? No. Okay.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I think they work in terms of, like, they can detect if your heart rate. You know, I don't think. But they. I don't think that you can actually. Obviously, you can't use them to actually see if someone's telling the truth. But can they, like, feel if you're anxious? Probably.

[Patrick Hines]

But, I mean, it's like, we almost always see it work. You know what I mean? Even though, like, they can't use them. Like, they get.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They nail the guy, but sometimes you can.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, I'm glad we can't use them in court. But I also.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I don't. I don't have time for this.

[Patrick Hines]

I would like to own a polygraph machine and get all my friends to come over.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I can meet the parents.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, totally. Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He's like, the needles are jumping.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what? I'm gonna have a Polygraph party. I'm getting one. Maybe I'll do it for my birthday.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Who does that? Vanity Fair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And they always catch Emma Stone, like secretly thinking she was the best actress that year, you know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So he fails.

[Patrick Hines]

Emma, do you think that Meryl deserved the Oscar that year? Yes. You are being deceptive, Girl. Our place is back. Look, this is all about that cookware that isn't dangerous for you, fam. You might not know this, but like a lot of these other brands use that non stick stuff that is bad for you.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So a study by the ecology center in California found that 80% of non stick pans contain Teflon, which can be released into your food and your home and your body. So we don't need any of that. So our place has high performance toxin free kitchenware.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. The bad stuff has those forever chemicals that aren't just in like cookware, they're also in other kitchen products like air fryers, utensils, and more, girl.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So that means you're ingesting. Ingesting it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Long story short, you're ingesting it.

[Patrick Hines]

Not with our place and not in 2026. Thank you so much.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So our place has a cookware set. It'll upgrade your kitchen. And one fell swoop. Okay, so the set includes two multifunctional always pans and two perfect pots in mini and full sizes that replace this like bulky, expensive stack of cookware that's also so loud to get out of the cabinet.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh my God. Every single time. It's like a bomb.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Because everything's falling because there are like a million things. Not anymore. With just four pieces pieces, you can sear, saute, fry, bake, boil, roast, steam, whatever you can think of.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, buying that four piece cookware set saves you 150 bucks.

[Julia Bezavalo]

This is what I'm saying.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

You know? And it's quieter.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's quieter. Also, the our place stuff is so beautiful.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's. It's sleek. It just makes you feel like, oh, I'm a professional.

[Patrick Hines]

We love it so much. We've been using it for forever now. So, fam, stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place today.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Visit from Our Place.com TCO and use code TCO for 10 off site wide.

[Patrick Hines]

With 100 day risk free trial free shipping and returns, you can experience this game changing cookware with zero risk.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, like we're not doing toxins anymore.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it's 2026.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You said disgusting.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Absolutely not. Not this Year.

[Julia Bezavalo]

No. Not ever.

[Patrick Hines]

No, girl. Chime is back and they've got something new for us.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So as you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Or as you maybe you don't know.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't know. Welcome to your first episode of cci.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Chime isn't just another banking app, okay? So they unlock smarter banking for everyday people, and they have all of these different products, and their new product is the Chime card, which is a new way to build credit history with your own money and get rewarded every single day.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, if there had been an opportunity for me, credit like this, like in my 20s, I would honestly have taken it. This new card unlocks safer credit building and cash back with everyday spending together at last.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yet no annual fees, no interest, no strings attached.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And when you get a qualifying direct deposit fam, you get 1.5% cash back on eligible Chime card purchases.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, it's crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And just the Chime app in general, like, there's no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees, no monthly fees.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, like building your own credit with your own money and no overdraft fees. I'm not joking when I say would have changed my life in my 20s.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I could not agree more. You know, the minimum fee is so ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

I told you. I want to pay like a $7 fee to get like $20 out. No, not with Chime.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Ridiculous.

[Patrick Hines]

So, fam, Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. So join the millions who are already banking fee free today.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to Chime.com TCO yes, Chime.com TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

And get all that good stuff. I mean, come on, build a credit. No, overdraft.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Fee free.

[Patrick Hines]

Fee free.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services. A secured Chime Visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bancor Bank NA or Stride Bank NA. MyPay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com feesinfo advertised annual percentage yield with Chime+ status only. Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on time. Payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. This guy fails the living shit out of this polygraph.

[Shane McAllister]

Obviously, the examiner told Nick he'd failed on key questions about Crystal's disappearance.

[Andrea Canning]

What are the questions? Do you know where Crystal is?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right now.

[Andrea Canning]

Are you hiding any information about what happened to Crystal? He didn't tell me the truth on both of those questions.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Specifically the questions about Crystal Rogers. Yes. And then they start arguing and we see it like they're fighting in the polygraph room.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Nick, the brother, I have to say, is absolutely infuriating. He's childish, he's argumentative. Every. And you could tell, like, this is every conversation he has.

[Patrick Hines]

These are straight white men who've gotten away with everything for their entire lives.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What a piece of shit this guy is.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the first time anyone's ever told him to unass a chair ever in his life.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, imagine being on a date with this guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Nick storms out. Nick's like, bye. So Rick, the police chief fires him.

[Patrick Hines]

I love.

[Julia Bezavalo]

This is how you do it, everybody.

[Patrick Hines]

McCubbin, you're the best. Unless you're not. But right now, in this moment, for this thing, you're the unassing of the chair and the firing of the dickhead. You're the best.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He's Rick. Like, can't believe, like, who the fudge do you think you are?

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The brother.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Great.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. But I do love, like, I don't know. I love that, like, Rick, the boss is just taking the line. I don't know if you can fire somebody for this, but he's doing it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You should be able to fire.

[Patrick Hines]

I agree.

[Andrea Canning]

Justice.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, yes. Being an asshole.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like being a fucking punchable faced dick.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. What'd you get fired for?

[Julia Bezavalo]

I was. Look at my face.

[Patrick Hines]

I was a punch. Oh, oh, you were a punchable face to dick. Oh, yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Obviously.

[Patrick Hines]

Can't believe you lasted as long as you did.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Same. That's Nick. So. But no one has been charged. We don't know what happened to Crystal. We don't know where she is. Yeah, the cops are like, okay, these two brothers are obviously involved, but there's no proof anywhere. Yeah, there's no evidence anywhere.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, they search Brooks's house in the family farm. They find no evidence of anything.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And so. But the cops go public and they're like, yeah, so boyfriend Brooks and his stupid brother Nick definitely are involved. They say that boyfriend Brooks is a suspect. Brother Nick has knowledge of what happened.

[Patrick Hines]

I love it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And now all of the, like, all the footage is out there so the public can make their own decision.

[Patrick Hines]

Put out the. I mean, I just. They are giving no fucking Bart.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's a really big deal that they did.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So we're back with Sheri. Crystal's mom and she's like, okay, now that I can be honest, I never like Brooks.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

She always wanted the cops to look at him. And she said that she didn't like the way not only that he treated Crystal, but Crystal's kids.

[Patrick Hines]

Like this is. The stories that we get here are insane.

[Julia Bezavalo]

We learn that we went out to eat with them one time and he would not pay for the other kids meals. He only paid for his and Eli's at home.

[Shane McAllister]

Ashley says Brooks would sometimes shut down the utility so the kids wouldn't run up the bill.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He just started like turning the water off at the house and like just little mean things.

[Patrick Hines]

Ashley, the daughter who lived with them, is saying that sometimes he would just turn off the utilities because he didn't want us running up the bills.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Here's the thing. Then don't be with Crystal. That's the gig.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Have to be nice to all the kids. She has five, well, four kids when you met her.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So you can't just pick and choose. That's the gig when you're with Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

And like we're going to learn in a minute that Brooks was a millionaire. It's not like they were pinching pennies.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He's just an.

[Patrick Hines]

He's just an.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And.

[Patrick Hines]

And, and he wants the other kids to feel less than. Of course, you know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

And his mother taught him.

[Patrick Hines]

I always love it when you say it like that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's because it's always like. It's like the worst kind of boy mom. I know for me, if you're a good boy mom, great. But I'm talking about Rosemary, Brooks's mom, who made it all worse because she was manipulative, she was mean, she was rude. Says Ashley, Crystal's daughter and Sherry, Crystal's mother.

[Patrick Hines]

Okay, this. She drops by Crystal and Brooks's house one day, says, your house is a mess. I'd hate to see how your mother keeps her home.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, mother in law from hell.

[Patrick Hines]

But it, it also just tells you what she thinks a woman's place is in a marriage and in a house. More, even more than how fudgeing, rude that is to everybody involved, you know?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So instead of like she should have said to, to Brooks, do not treat Crystal and her kids this way.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And he should have said, do not treat Crystal and her kids this way and her family this way. But none of that. Just their own echo chamber of bullshit.

[Patrick Hines]

And it's funny too, because it's like, well then Brooks, what did you see in Crystal when You met her.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Why are you here?

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

For control.

[Patrick Hines]

But it's also like she was. Crystal was just never going to be that woman that you like, your mom. You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

But he wanted to be able to, like, control and manipulate, which is why.

[Patrick Hines]

It starts with hiring her to work for him. And that power imbalance is, like, put.

[Andrea Canning]

It's.

[Patrick Hines]

It's baked in from the beginning.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Exactly. So Crystal's family is freaking fed up. They're sad, they're angry, they're doing their own investigation. But there's like. But honestly, though, they had timelines, they had a whiteboard. Like, they're. They are legit.

[Patrick Hines]

And I gotta say, like, we get a lot from the mom, and I'm on her side, of course, that, like, she didn't feel like the sheriff's department was doing very much. And I. I do think that, like, sometimes in these cases, they just can't tell the family what they're doing because it feels like they were working on this.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's fair enough.

[Patrick Hines]

But the dad, because he knows how to do this, is like, in the wild, doing his own search, like, all day, every day.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Crystal's been missing for nine months. And Tommy, her dad, gets a tip.

[Shane McAllister]

He got a tip that on the night Crystal disappeared, hunters saw a suspiciously parked car. Car near the Hauk farm. A white Buick. He told detectives about it. Just a few days later, lo and.

[Andrea Canning]

Behold, he gets some information back that Brooks's grandmother, Anna Whitesides, owns white Buick.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The boyfriend's grandmother owns a white Buick.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. So this is Brooks's grandmother. And so the cops go to investigate this. They find video footage of. Of Nick, the brother and the grand grandmother somewhere, like, out of state, selling the Buick.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, the day after the tip is public that everyone's looking for a white Buick. They sell the grandmother's white Buick. That means specific white Buick we're looking for.

[Patrick Hines]

And the thing that we should also say, and we'll get more into why this is later, but there was a lot of public distrust of the cops in Bardstown. So Nick's dad is getting more tips than the cops. That's why this tip about the Buick came into the dad and not the police. Right, Right.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So they track down the car, they test the trunk, and they find this is a very important distinction. They find hair that looks like crystals. It's not a DNA match because the quality was too poor. They couldn't test it. But physically it's a match. It's like if you found, like, a pink Hair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Somewhere you'd be like, well, right.

[Patrick Hines]

It's probably.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Probably her. So that. But that's what I mean.

[Patrick Hines]

Pick it up and smell it. Does it smell like a witch? Jillian?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's just like, long blonde hair. And they say. I'm not trying to, like, downplay it, but that's what I mean when they say, like, it's physically a match. It just looks like it was Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

It's one of those things that, like, it tells the cops in their gut, like, okay, keep going down, but there's no, like, usable value.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So it's frustrating because this is a total bust. Like, they, like, we're able to do the good work and track down the car. And then when they finally get evidence that they're like, I know this is Crystal's hair. I can't test it because the quality is poor.

[Patrick Hines]

I've got some bad news. We've got to do a balloon release on the one year anniversary. We've been talking about this for years. We've been on a crusade. Please don't do the balloon releases. We get it. We got it. We got to commemorate. We've got to absolutely, like, make the memory of the day.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And this was like, after one year missing, so maybe it wasn't as publicized, like, how bad for the earth it is.

[Patrick Hines]

And it wasn't those, like, Mylar balloons. It was like the, you know, regular balloons.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Mylar.

[Patrick Hines]

Mylar. Like those birthday balloons that are like the shiny ones. Yeah, Those are the ones that the dolphins really like.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And the ducks, too.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

All balloons are not great. I always think they're going to pop. They make me very anxious.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, you couldn't be in the room when I opened the champagne the other week. Yeah, yeah, I forgot about that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. So this is a bust. But Tommy, the dad, is relentless and he's doing everything in his power to.

[Patrick Hines]

Find his daughter, including, like, some shade.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. So it's now one year missing, which is only a few months after this white Buick tip.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Here's another glaring red flag.

[Andrea Canning]

And as far as we could tell.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The media, the whole family withdrew. And while they were still very much.

[Andrea Canning]

Participants in the town, doing business, living.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Their lives, they weren't coming out to things where we might be. They weren't interested in being recorded on camera. Brooks and Crystal's family are not speaking. They were never speaking. They have never been in this together, even before he was named by police.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, this is another Peterson parallel. You know what I mean?

[Andrea Canning]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, this is crazy. Like, no matter how airtight you think your alibi is Brooks. If you're not like banging down their door, if you're not living on their couch doing everything you could do to find their daughter, you look guilty.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. And look, they're definitely not going to patch things up after this billboard has been purchased.

[Patrick Hines]

This is the shade I was talking about. I fudgeing. Love it when shit like this happens.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So it's all red and white and it says miss. It's like red background and then white missing, then a white background and then red. Crystal Rogers, last seen on July. July 3, 2015. And then in big black letters by Brooks Hauk.

[Patrick Hines]

So good.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Who is named the main suspect in her disappearance according to the Nelson County Sheriff's Department. And then all the website, Crystal Rogers, taskforce.com, the phone number. I mean, come on, that's how you do it.

[Patrick Hines]

Can you remind me where they put this billboard right across the street from the sheriff's department.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Great.

[Patrick Hines]

The other thing, like to keep it fresh in the police's mind as well.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know for everyone.

[Patrick Hines]

I was like, oh, my God. Because the thing is too like the mom, Sherry and the dad tomorrow, Tommy are like, they're amazing, but they're a little bit soft spoken. But damn, they have creativity, uniqueness, nerve and talent if ever you've seen it. You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Tommy, Crystal's dad, like this obviously, of course, can destroy somebody. Like, he's so stressed out, he's exhausted, he's paranoid, and now he's feeling like he's in danger too.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, it's. I will always think of like the Fred Murray vibes, you know, Maury Marie's dad. But the way that like, to this day, every weekend, he can. He's going into the woods in New Hampshire. Like, this is what Tommy was doing, right? And Sheri, the mom is like, he's killing himself doing this.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And then when you're the face and the mouthpiece of this really important, maybe polarizing, emotional thing, like now he's feeling like, why am I looking over my shoulder? Well, and because am I in danger here?

[Patrick Hines]

Once again, he's the one getting the tips. Like, the town doesn't trust the cops, but they trust Tommy. So he's the one who like, is getting the tips. Like, if it's gonna be tips. Yes. And if it's gonna be. If people know stuff, they're going to him.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And the more he feels like he's in danger, I'm like, tommy, that means you're on the right track.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You're getting Closer.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Because now Crystal's parents are taking care of four of her kids. Eli, the youngest, is with Brooks, the boyfriend. Yeah, it's November 19, 2016. It's early in the morning, and Tommy, the dad, goes out with Crystal's 11 year old son. They're gonna go out hunting.

[Shane McAllister]

Sherry was still in bed when her phone rang 30 minutes later. It was her grandson. He was hysterical and he told me.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Tell me he'd been shot. And I just panicked and I said, I, I'm coming, Tommy. Crystal's dad is shot in the chest and killed. The 11 year old is okay?

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, but. But he's right there when it happens.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right there. Yes. Physically he's okay.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, he calls his grandmother, he's screaming, she comes down like he's. Tommy's already dead by the time she gets there. The cops are on the scene.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And don't even try to say it's a hunting accident because nobody believes that.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. By the way, 30 minutes ago, Andrea Canning's crying again.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I mean, how could you lie?

[Patrick Hines]

I know. She says this is all too much for one person to bear. She's talking about herself.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean, girls? Stamps.com is back. Look, it is crazy to me how many small businesses are still making post office runs or are stuck with these expensive postage meter leases.

[Shane McAllister]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Here's the thing about the post office. It just becomes your whole day.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

When you have to go there. Right. So with stamps.com you can send everything from your computer or phone 24 7. You have to worry about those long lines are like, oh, when's the best time to go to spend two hours.

[Patrick Hines]

No, because you can schedule carrier pickups right from your door and get carrier compliant labels every time. No errors, no rejection, directed mail, no wasted trips.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. You can print postage on demand and get up to 90% off carrier rates like FedEx and UPS and USPS.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm like, they've been doing this forever. For almost 30 years, millions of customers have relied on stamps.com to make mailing and shipping faster. And so simple. Do you have a couch in your office? Take a nap. That's what you could be doing instead of waiting in line at the post office.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Totally. And you can do so much that you can do at the post office on stamps.com. like, yes, you can send certified mail.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You can get document tracking to confirm delivery. Like all of that stuff that you think you need to go to the post office for.

[Patrick Hines]

You're also like, never overpaying postage. Just Paying exactly what you have to.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Pay and sometimes 90% off.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. So fam, right now you can try stamps.com risk free for 60 days.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Go to stamps.com and use code TCO to get 60 days risk free.

[Patrick Hines]

60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's stamps.com code TCO.

[Patrick Hines]

That's stamps.com, code TC.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Oh, I'm just saying all of the time you're going to get back not waiting on that line.

[Patrick Hines]

Napis, it's called. We call it Napa.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Okay, great.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So the theory is that someone was waiting for Tommy, the dad, hiding in the bushes.

[Patrick Hines]

Now there's good evidence of this because there is bark that is freshly ripped off a tree.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like a chunk of it.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And, and so they're saying that that would be kickback from the gun. So whoever fired the gun had kicked back and it ripped that chunk off the tree. And that tree was a direct shot to where Tommy died. My only question is, how would that person have known they were going to be there?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's someone, I don't know, a. Someone who's around. Like here's I think when I'm just guessing because I have the privilege of not having been in this situation before, but I would think that you kind of start talking to everyone when you're trying to get to the bottom of things.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So maybe your small, your circle isn't as small as it would be in your real life.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And now you're like, oh, where's this? Oh, I have an 11 year old too. Oh, Crystal. Roger. Like I feel like maybe you would just be talking to people and you.

[Patrick Hines]

Would just be saying, I'm going hunting tomorrow with my 11 year old nephew.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Or whatever doing like, oh, like can you try to find some joy in your life? Like that conversation can happen. I think really easily.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, that makes sense because I believe this was a targeted head.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I agree.

[Patrick Hines]

But my only question is like, how would they have known?

[Julia Bezavalo]

I think when you have been searching for your daughter for a year and your whole thing is talking to people and seeing what they know, you have conversations you don't even remember or realize you're having.

[Patrick Hines]

And also like the person didn't have to have been there all night long. Like they could have been followed. Like they could have just been waiting outside the house and followed them.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And I'm just speculating, but I think that like it's easy to. I think you open up more because you want people to open up more.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What do you know? So you just. And you're vulnerable, you know, like that's just what happens. So Tommy Rogers murder, this hit hard.

[Shane McAllister]

It scared the community because this wasn't just about Tommy or Crystal. They were just the latest victims in a string of unsolved killings plaguing this once peaceful town. Five murders in four years in a really small town.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The fifth unsolved murder in the small picturesque town of 14,000 people in like.

[Patrick Hines]

Four years in like a very small window.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So a year before Crystal's disappearance, we learn that Kathy Netherland, who's a special education teacher, And Samantha, her 16 year old daughter, were murdered in a home invasion. Their killer was never caught. And I'm going to say this now, there is zero information on this. Everything online is like rumors and speculation.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, wow.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They have never found the killer and it was apparently a very brutal scene.

[Patrick Hines]

Now they make the point here too quickly. They don't think that Kathy and Samantha's murder is connected to this, the series of murders. We're about to see the rest of this episode. They do eventually believe that the rest of these murders are connected. But it is crazy that there's been this many murders in America's most beautiful small town.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

In four years.

[Julia Bezavalo]

14Th. So that's Kathy Netherland and Samantha again. Their killer was never caught. It was a home invasion. Yeah, a year before that. So now that's two years before Crystal's murder. There was a murder that was really similar to what happened to Tommy, the dad.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. So this guy's name is Jason Ellis and we meet his mom and his sisters and they're telling us he was fun, life of the party, family oriented. This guy loved baseball.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, he played in the minors for the Cincinnati Reds.

[Patrick Hines]

Do you know though that like I was showing shocked to find this out in an unrelated way a while ago. They make no money. Oh, no, I didn't know that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's why, like that term, like you get called up to the majors, like that's where it comes from, everyone, because it's a big deal. And then when you get sent back down, you're like, oh, it's like such a blow.

[Patrick Hines]

And because like they have to have like second, like it's basically a hobby.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And so what happens is that.

[Shane McAllister]

But after learning his first son was going to be born with special needs, Jason's mom, Pam says Jason shifted his priorities.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They found out Hunter was going to be down syndrome. He changed his career so he can be with his family. So he gave up baseball to be.

[Shane McAllister]

The best dad he could be.

[Patrick Hines]

He quit baseball. He gave up the thing that he loved the most in the world to, like, get a more sensible job, to, like, make enough money and be there for his family. Like.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. Not have to be on the road Rock. You know, like. Right.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Rick McCovin, the chief who fired Nick, the brother, the unasked.

[Patrick Hines]

That chair guy.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That chair guy. He was Jason's boss.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And everyone just has, like, incredible things to say about this guy.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, McCubbin says that Jason was a chief's cop. I loved that expression because he was saying, like, he enjoyed policing, he loved his career. Never had a complaint against him.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He would have gone down to have that conversation, even if it was his brother.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

You know, without fighting and then disappearing for six days to get your story straight. Like, he would just.

[Patrick Hines]

Sorry. Like, I. I know I sound insane when I say this, but if somebody called me tomorrow and was like, I've got evidence that Steve is the murderer in this case, I would be like, I'll come in for questioning. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not covering up somebody else's murder.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What would you tell Steve you were going to do?

[Patrick Hines]

I got to record with Jillian because I know you'd figure it out. You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

God, on me. I'd be like, he probably did it.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Usually the husband want me to tell you I've bad news.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But that the numbers say Steve did it.

[Patrick Hines]

I just think that more people than not would. Would be questioned and answered honestly if they're told. If they're confronted with their sibling or their loved one as a murderer.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The point is that they're all involved. That's why he want to go down.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, yeah, exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Getting his parents.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So it's May 25, 2013, Memorial Day weekend, and it's just before 3am And Jason had just signed off for the night.

[Shane McAllister]

You're at home and you get a very disturbing call that something has happened to one of your officers.

[Andrea Canning]

I did. They called me just before 3am Officer down.

[Patrick Hines]

Officer down. Bluefield Road.

[Andrea Canning]

The officer was found on an exit ramp and there were trees around.

[Shane McAllister]

The officer was Jason. He had just signed off for the night. When Chief McCubbin got there, he saw him lying in a pool of blood.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And he is shot on his way home. So he was out of his car, clearing debris off the road.

[Patrick Hines]

This guy is such a good guy that he's like, on an off ramp. On a highway he sees like a fallen tree branch and he gets out of his car to move it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like a hazard for the safety of the town.

[Patrick Hines]

Now we're going to learn that that likely somebody placed that. So it was probably enough debris that he actually couldn't pass. So he moved it because he needed to drive past it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The cops are saying that this was the debris was put there intentionally to force Jason out of the car because there weren't trees anywhere in the area. There was just like this random branch across the road.

[Patrick Hines]

By the way, Andrea Canning stopping again like she can't. Like this is all so awful.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And they also found the spot where the person was crouched waiting for him, which is chilling, but also it's chilling on its own. But it's also chilling because very similar to Tommy the dad, right. Like so for Jason and Tommy the dad, the killer was lying in wait. It was about 3am it was off the exact same highway. And that highway is also where Crystal's car was found.

[Patrick Hines]

Right. And so it's three and a half years later when Tommy is shot and killed and Jason's mur is still not solved.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But there's one major connection.

[Shane McAllister]

Yes, there was a connection between the victims, Brooks's brother, Nick Hauck. Jason Ellis and Nick worked together at the Bardstown pd. No one knew what, if anything to make of that. No evidence has been shared linking the two cases.

[Patrick Hines]

All of these cases are connected through this guy Nick. Right. Nick is Brooks's brother.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Nick is Jason, the, the shot cops colleague. And so like the cases of Jason, Tommy and Crystal are all connected.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. And they don't know how. Like they just know that this family like Brooks and Nick, like they have to be involved. But how? And why? And why Jason Ellis and how does he connect to Crystal? Or is it just that these people are fucking murderers?

[Patrick Hines]

And that's the thing, like we, we kind of like we don't really come back to Jason's case after this. And I'm just so curious as to what would have been the motive. If it's the same killers, right, what would have been the motive to kill Jason?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It could be as simple as Nick's a bad cop, Jason was a good one, Jason knew something and was going to, you know, do the right thing against Nick. I mean that seems the most likely Scenari scenario to me. Somebody.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, and somebody said something in passing that like Jason was so squeaky clean that like you never would have thought that he would have been involved in anything outside of.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He wasn't Right. Other people were and killed him for it. If I were to guess, I think that is the most likely scenario.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, to this day, there's really no answers to this case.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Brooks is doing, of course, fine. Better than fine. His business is thriving. He's a multimillionaire. He also has a new girlfriend. Guess what her name is.

[Patrick Hines]

And guess what?

[Shane McAllister]

Her job was also named Crystal. Crystal Maupin.

[Julia Bezavalo]

She starts managing rental properties much like Crystal did. She even kind of looked like Crystal. She's a beautiful blonde woman, just like Crystal Rogers. She's also working as his property manager. Just like Crystal Rogers.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, holy shit. Shane the podcaster is like, oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I know you can't make it up. Yeah. But like, I want to repeat what I said earlier on. Like, he's. He's hiring women that he wants to date because he wants there to be a power imbalance in the relationship.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And he's also brainwashing this Crystal.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Because this Crystal is taking down signs asking for information about Crystal Rogers. Like, she's removing them from lawns.

[Patrick Hines]

My thing is, like, I don't know that I want to give her the. The path of having been brainwashed. Like, maybe she just.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Just an asshole.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

If we're going to go the Occam's Razor girly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Then I mean, like, she's ripping missing person signs out of people's yards. She gets busted, and she is court ordered to. To apologize to Crystal's mother. I love it.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Make her put them.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

All day long.

[Patrick Hines]

Make her join the search party.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Make her man the phones.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I don't trust her.

[Patrick Hines]

And then we get this weird thing where we have this reporter. Like, Brooks has never spoken to a reporter on the record. And. But, like, this one reporter tricks him into getting a recorded phone call by pretending to be interested in one of his rental properties.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Name is Forrest Berkshire, which sounds like the name of a reporter in a Hallmark Christmas movie.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And I say that as a compliment.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Julia Bezavalo]

His name is Forrest Berkshire.

[Patrick Hines]

He left his job at the New York Times to come home and save the failing paper in his hometown.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. Then, like, oh, the guy from the big city. That was his ex or whatever. He's gay in the scenario.

[Patrick Hines]

Absolutely. God, I love Christmas Town. We got to save the local paper.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Exactly. You know, so they never speak about Crystal directly, but he's, like, doing this to learn that Brooks is a cocky jerk who's not in mourning. I'm like, you needed a phone Call for that.

[Patrick Hines]

I think that he was doing this to get Brooks on tape so we could give the tape to dateline. You know what I mean? I'm like. It was one of those moments where I was like, I see what's going on here.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Thank you so much.

[Patrick Hines]

Thank you.

[Julia Bezavalo]

2019. Jon Snow retires. The FBI has now taken over the case. And Agent Steve Curie is on the case now from the FBI.

[Patrick Hines]

He and his tattoos are here.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, he knows full well that the community is furious.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Scared and impatient. There have been five unsolved murders. No one's in handcuffs like Steve. Dazzling.

[Patrick Hines]

And he also knows that there's just a massive mistrust. Like, part of the reason these cases can't be solved is because the public doesn't trust the cops. Because these cases haven't been solved.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

So they start Operation Justice Rising.

[Andrea Canning]

Love it.

[Shane McAllister]

It was the summer of 20. The FBI flooded Bardstown for five days. The FBI searched the Hou properties. They used dogs and divers, collected boxes of evidence and spoke with neighbors. And they combed the family farm again. The same property long whispered about in connection to Crystal's disappearance.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Evidence collecting, document collecting, canvassing. You know, like all this big family farm like Brooks comes from a massive family farm. It's a big piece of property that's a whole, whole lot of shit to search. So finally we have a break in the case. The FBI finds teeny tiny recorders all over the house on this big family farm that belongs to Brooks the boyfriend and Nick, the brother and the whole family and the shitty.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And they realize that like the family has been recording all of their conversations with the cops. We'll get back to that later.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But then the FBI looks more into that 13 second phone call. The middle of the night, the night Crystal went missing. And remember, Brooks, the boyfriend, said Steve Lawson called him, but he couldn't remember why. And then that like, planned phone call in front of the cops where Steve Lawson was like, oh, I have a perfectly normal response. Of course I remember.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Remember that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Okay, so the FBI reanalyzes that call with their special FBI technology.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Yeah, that's what it's called.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yes.

[Patrick Hines]

Tmtm. Tmtmtm.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

And they said, hey, you're never gonna believe this. He's on the Bluegrass Parkway. And I just never like, I remember what, like, this is crazy.

[Shane McAllister]

The Bluegrass Parkway near the spot Crystal's car had been found on the same night she disappeared.

[Patrick Hines]

So, like that 13 second phone call that they wanted to explain away Was made basically next to Crystal Rogers's car.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And, like, Steve Lawson gets calls from his adult son, Joey. Like, a lot of missed calls. Then he calls his son, and then he calls Brooks. So basically, the cops are like, okay, here's what happened. Yeah, something happened. His son called Steve Lawson. Steve Lawson called Brooks, the boyfriend.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And if they're all connected, if you reverse engineer it, what like Steven, his tattoos are saying is that Brooks hired Steve to get rid of Crystal, essentially, is the thinking. And Steve outsourced part of that to his son, and something went wrong. And the son called his dad, and then his dad called Brooks to say.

[Julia Bezavalo]

In 13 seconds, something went wrong.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And, like, this is going to be the linchpin to the whole thing.

[Julia Bezavalo]

What happens in someone's life to be like, yeah, I'll participate in this murder. Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, I know, I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And for, like, peanuts. For, like, 500 bucks or whatever. Like, I mean, for nothing.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. Because people have this in them. Some people.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Look, I know it's terrifying, but, like, the fact. Because at first, I feel like before this podcast, 10 years ago, I'd be like, well, if Steve Lawson has no connection, why would he be involved?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, no, no, Right.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Hey, idiot, you ten years ago.

[Patrick Hines]

No, no, no.

[Julia Bezavalo]

People want to be involved in this.

[Patrick Hines]

And also because, like, Brooks is, like, a prominent member of the community, and probably thinking doing a favor for this guy is going to do something for.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Steve Lawson or he has something on Steve Lawson or that or the kid or whatever.

[Patrick Hines]

Or Maybe, like, the $500 really means something to Steve Lawson, which I didn't mean to. I'm not laughing at the dollar amount. That's a lot of money.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That's what I mean. It is nothing compared to the act of murdering someone.

[Patrick Hines]

And what these idiots who are really, like, sick and twisted to be involved in a murder never understand is that you always, always get caught. Always. You always get caught one day. Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So we have our special prosecutor here, Shane, and he teams up with Teresa, his wife, and Jim, his colleague.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The cops are saying that these cases are connected, but the lawyers are saying that Crystal's case is the easiest to prove. So that's the one they're going to focus on.

[Patrick Hines]

Imagine that. Crystal's case, no body, no crime scene, no murder weapon, no, like, actual motive, is the easiest of those to prove. Wild.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I know. So the prosecutors have a theory.

[Shane McAllister]

Prosecutors developed a working theory. It was Joey who was driving Crystal's car, and he called his dad, Steve, when he got the flat tire, the.

[Patrick Hines]

Flat tire is the best part of this whole thing, Chef's kiss. Because if they hadn't gotten the flat tire and Joey hadn't called his dad, his dad never would have called Brooks and they wouldn't have that 13 second call connecting the three of them, right?

[Julia Bezavalo]

So they put Steve Lawson under oath and start asking him questions. And he's like, yeah, I was on the highway that night. And yes, it's the same highway where Crystal's car was found. And so he's immediately arrested. The cops interview him. He's also wearing a bright blue shirt with the words, y' all crazy gigantic.

[Patrick Hines]

I know, I know, I know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The cops are yelling at him almost immediately. Do the right thing, Steve.

[Patrick Hines]

These cops, they're doing that thing where they're like, in the face, like their legs are between their legs, and they're like screaming in their faces. And Steve lost, like, don't you holler at me. I don't appreciate that, sir.

[Julia Bezavalo]

All crazy says his show.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. It's the who farted for 2026.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They interview him over and over and over again over months. Like, this guy is just not cracking. Everyone is frustrated, frustrated. They're exhausting. Steve Lawson is a very annoying person. Yeah, everyone's at the end of their ropes. And finally one of the prosecutors comes in and he's like, steve, look, can you just tell us that you spoke to your son that night on the phone? And Steve goes, oh, yeah, 100%.

[Patrick Hines]

Well.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And like, I know. Like, I don't know why, but for some reason, this guy starts telling the truth. And it's not like he says, okay, fine, you got me? It's literally seamless.

[Patrick Hines]

They wore him down. And, like, what he admits in this interview is that his son did call him and he went to pick up his son who had Crystal Rogers his car.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right?

[Patrick Hines]

And this is where Steve Lawson says that he tried to readjust the seat, but he didn't do it enough. Yeah, the idiot.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, he did a piss poor job at it because it was the first thing the cop noticed on his way back. And it's like, oh, so this is just the tip of the iceberg, because as Andrea Canning says, now that he.

[Shane McAllister]

Was talking, Stieb didn't stop. He told investigators that before Crystal disappeared, Brooks confided in him that they were having problems.

[Andrea Canning]

I think his exact words were exact.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, I just like her gone. He quote, jeff just wanted her gone.

[Julia Bezavalo]

This case has been going on for seven years. This is a major turning point.

[Patrick Hines]

And I. I guess, fuck me, because I guess this was the easiest one to prove. You know what I mean? Like, you've got enough witnesses that you probably feel like you can crack.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Well, when there's a Steve Lawson involved, like, let's talk.

[Patrick Hines]

We got that one.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, with the y' all crazy shirt.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So everyone's arrested. Brooks is arrested for first degree murder. Steve Lawson and his son Joey are arrested for conspiracy and tampering with physical evidence. Nick, the brother and the mom will get off scot free. They will never be charged. They will.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, and I, I think that, like, that is awful and I hate it. But I guess at this point it's like, if we can get these guys, let's get these guys also.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Can we investigate, can we get like intern? I mean, he's been fired, but like, I would love for internal affairs to see what the Nick has been doing with his career this whole time as a bad cop.

[Andrea Canning]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Because the other thing that we, that we didn't even mention was that when he got fired, the boss was like, he didn't even argue. Like that's how guilty he knew he was.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. He was a cop. So he can get away with.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

He didn't care.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like he doesn't actually want to do good.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, because we never get there. Let's just talk about this for a second. Like, do we think that Nick also killed Officer Jason?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Oh, yeah. I think Nick is the through line.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And I'm just so curious as to why. You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

And I think Nick is the through line because he got away with Jason.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And he's a cop. He can get away with anything.

[Patrick Hines]

And the reason they had to kill Tommy the dad is because Tommy was the one who was. If it was going to be solved, it was going to be solved through Tommy, not the cops.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. And it's not that crazy to think that, like, Crystal's boyfriend's team, like that side would get information from what's going. You know what I mean? Like, the community's talking and like, people don't maybe don't know that Brooks is the bad guy. I don't know. Like, word gets around.

[Patrick Hines]

No. Yeah. Well, so it goes to trial, you know, and the state is acknowledging it's a tough case for them.

[Shane McAllister]

This was a tough case for the state. They had no body, no crime scene and no murder weapon.

[Patrick Hines]

That's important.

[Shane McAllister]

So they would have have to rely on their circumstantial evidence. You told the jury this is about common sense.

[Andrea Canning]

It is about common sense.

[Patrick Hines]

All they've got is circumstantial evidence. But like, it's funny because the prosecutor says to the jury, like, it's so simple, you would almost never think of it. Like this is just a common sense.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Case and it's a family affair.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Because everyone is testifying that Crystal hated Brooks and she was planning to leave him.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Which we know is the most dangerous time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And Brooks's story was like, no, everything was great. We just got back from the beach. Like we were going on vacations. I love it. No, everything, everyone on the stand is like, she wanted to go. She was afraid that he would keep the kid.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

She was afraid of him.

[Julia Bezavalo]

His idea of fun, he wants us to believe, is walking around a rainy, dark farm with a two and a half year old from 7:30 to 10:30. Brooks.

[Patrick Hines]

Shut up. Shut up.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Just shut up. So the prosecutors say that this was a whole family affair. Brooks, his brother Nick, the cop, their mother, they were all involved.

[Patrick Hines]

They do call the mom and the brother unindicted co conspirators. They are giving no Fox and the.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Prosecutor, like publicly they're saying yes, not just in court, like on tv.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So now everyone knows that this family is involved.

[Patrick Hines]

Unbelievable.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So like all this combined witness testimony.

[Shane McAllister]

Says Brooks lured Crystal out to the Hauck property.

[Julia Bezavalo]

She had told me that that night her and Brooks was going on a surprise date.

[Andrea Canning]

That's not date night.

[Shane McAllister]

But prosecutor Shane Young said that date night wasn't dinner and roses. It was a drive to the family farm with eli. At around 7.30pm, Brooks lured Crystal to.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The big family farm under the guise of giving it another shot. And like so fucking manipulative and cruel.

[Patrick Hines]

And so Crystal's friend is here to be. Like, she was really excited about this.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Because she wanted love and she wanted.

[Patrick Hines]

A family for her family, you know?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. And so like it was this big surprise date. She was excited about it. Like God knows where Eli was when this was happening. They're two and a half year old.

[Patrick Hines]

You know, I hadn't even thought of that.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like, I don't. Because he was there. Like it's confirmed that he was at the farm. So the grandmother was probably like playing with him, you know, like hanging out and like, oh, like, I'll take care of you. Like, you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, well. And the thing.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Peekaboo or whatever the fuck. And like there's a murder happening on your farm, Rosemary.

[Patrick Hines]

What he did to her will never know. And what he did with the body will never know.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah, but it like there, I would say that they're saying there's like a 99% chance that crystal was killed at the farm. They just can't prove it.

[Patrick Hines]

No question.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And so remember the recorders that were all over the place?

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They were recording themselves to get their story straight so that they would come back and be like, what did you say to the cop? And then it would be recorded so that we can go back and say what did you say to the cop on this day?

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, these people are idiots. But it's well thought out because I've. In nine years of doing this, I've never seen that before.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I would just love to know what else Nick has gotten away with because so far it's at least two murders that we know of.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes. And this is where they say that it was a family cover up which would have worked.

[Andrea Canning]

That phone call is what did it. That this whole case. Yes. If they had not gotten a flat tire. We probably wouldn't have solved this case. If that phone call had not been made.

[Patrick Hines]

Had they not gotten that flat tire and Steve Lawson made that 13 second phone call to Brooks.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Or had they not just trusted Steve Lawson.

[Patrick Hines]

Right.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like he's the wild card here.

[Patrick Hines]

You know why that call was 13 seconds? Because it was Brooks being like, what.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The are you calling me for?

[Patrick Hines]

And hanging up.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Brooks don't answer. Idiot.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Shane McAllister]

Stays too.

[Patrick Hines]

Exactly.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But it's not just that, however, the Lawson's. Steve Lawson, the wild card, that family, they were telling everyone in town about the murder and everyone testified to it.

[Patrick Hines]

Like Steve Lawson's ex wife testifies to overhearing them talking about moving the car. Steve Lawson's ex girlfriend testifies to hearing them talking about moving a body from the hell farm.

[Julia Bezavalo]

They're all idiots. They're all talking about it.

[Patrick Hines]

Everyone believable.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Like out at the diner, they're all talking about it. Everyone knows everything. Great job.

[Patrick Hines]

But also then like ex wife and ex girlfriend. Why aren't you going to the cops for this information?

[Julia Bezavalo]

Maybe they did.

[Patrick Hines]

Maybe they did. I'll go, I'll fudge myself and see myself.

[Julia Bezavalo]

I don't know. I don't know if they did, but maybe that's why we know to talk to them.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, I guess that's true.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So the prosecution rests. The defense gets up there. This Brian Butler guy who's a well known defense attorney, he has an answer for everything. Like everything's great. Relationship is great. Nothing to see here.

[Patrick Hines]

I got to say though, like, his pitch is kind of like Brooks and his mother are both incredibly successful. Brooks is a millionaire. The brother's like a successful police officer, or was until he got fired. And he's like, they're all going to come together, together and risk everything to kill somebody.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And look to his point, he's right to say there's zero evidence. There's no body, there's no murder weapon, no crime scene, no proven motive. And he will also say the cops are corrupt, cops are bullies, witness statements were given under duress. And I'm like, you know, and we.

[Patrick Hines]

See some of these interviews where like, one of the girlfriends, like, you're screaming in my face, I don't know anything and I want to leave. Like, it wasn't always perfect policing here.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Look, it never is. So, like all of these points, I'm like, yeah, okay, sure. Like I, I, I buy that. But I also know that this family killed her. Crystal. So in spite of all of this.

[Shane McAllister]

Deliberations continued for one hour, then two that afternoon, everyone was called back to the courtroom.

[Patrick Hines]

We the jury, find the defendant guilty of murder.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The jury comes back with guilty verdicts.

[Patrick Hines]

Two hours.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So Steve and Joey Lawson are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with physical evidence. Steve gets 17 years, his son gets 25.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And Brooks, the boyfriend, is sentenced to life in prison.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And then like, Nick and the mom get away scot free.

[Julia Bezavalo]

But the case is still open on their, like, their case is still open.

[Patrick Hines]

Well, and like the case of Jason and Tommy are still open. And like, the prosecutor won't commit to like, bringing charges in those cases, but like, they're, they're not ruling it out either.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And we also have no answers about who killed Tommy, Crystal's dad, no answers about Jason Ellis, no answers about Kathy Netherland and her daughter Samantha, and also.

[Patrick Hines]

No answers about where Crystal's body is.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Right. And what exactly happened to her.

[Patrick Hines]

That is what makes me so sad about that is that like, the body's probably close. You know what I mean?

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's on the farm.

[Patrick Hines]

If it is. Like, I, my two sense is that it probably isn't because, like, they know that that farm will be searched within an inch of its life over and over again. But it's probably the body never is far. Whenever we cover these cases and they find the body 10 years later, it's like a mile down there. They can't search every square inch of Kentucky. And it's just so sad because it's like Brooks will never admit to having done this murder, so he'll never try to trade that information for any sort of leniency. So the family's just never going to know. And it's just awful.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And, like, I don't really give a shit that they're successful. Millionair. They're still fucking miserable sets of shit, all of them. The mother, the brother, like, so they still have to wake up being them. I know that that's not much, you know, like, to the family, but I think there's at least something.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

That the family can hold on to and make their. Draw their own conclusions, because I certainly am.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Oh, my God, girl. We did trouble in Bardstown. You, me, Andrea Canning. We had a rough one with this.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Come on. On, Andrea. Thanks for doing the good work, everybody involved.

[Patrick Hines]

Speaking of the good work, fam, we have 200,000 subscribers on YouTube. 200,000. Hi, YouTube.

[Andrea Canning]

Hi.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Maybe more at this point, like a couple weeks ago.

[Patrick Hines]

Now, look, if that tells you one thing, it's that our YouTube is really fun. You should go watch our videos. They really are a good time. It's True Crime obsessed podcast on YouTube. Join the Facebook group True Crime Obsessed podcast discussion group.

[Julia Bezavalo]

And we have a Patreon.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And the Patreon, if you want full ad free bonus episodes. There's like 500 of them.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Yeah. Because it's these episodes that are on the regular feed and then stuff that's only for Patreon. Like, all of our series. Episodes that are like, 3, 4, 5.

[Patrick Hines]

Every series that's ever been on Netflix and Hulu and HBO Max and all of that, it's all over there. What do we do next? Girl.

[Shane McAllister]

Oh, boy.

[Julia Bezavalo]

The secrets we bury on HBO Max Discovery Plus.

[Patrick Hines]

I stayed up really late the other night and watched this.

[Julia Bezavalo]

This is about a guy who thought his dad bailed on his family. But that's not what happened. What actually happened is crazy.

[Patrick Hines]

It's crazy.

[Julia Bezavalo]

So everyone g your loins. We all watched this, like, three weeks ago.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Julia Bezavalo]

When it came out. So. Yeah, we are. There we go. Just like, get ready.

[Patrick Hines]

Insane.

[Julia Bezavalo]

It's insane.

[Patrick Hines]

All right, fam. Stay tuned for the trailer for that. And we love you.

[Julia Bezavalo]

All right. We love you. Stay safe, please.

[Shane McAllister]

All right.

[Patrick Hines]

Bye.

[Julia Bezavalo]

Bye.

[Andrea Canning]

I grew up in what I thought was a pretty normal family.

[Patrick Hines]

One morning, dad went out to the store to get a pack of cigarettes, and he never came back. He disappeared off the face of the earth.

[Andrea Canning]

On her deathbed, I asked her, mom, can you tell me anything about that before you leave? My mother literally turned her head, winked at me, and then passed away. Maybe he was involved with organized crime.

[Patrick Hines]

There was no. No police report.

[Andrea Canning]

He left, but the car was there, and his wallet was there.

[Patrick Hines]

I asked Mike to come to the psychic with me.

[Andrea Canning]

And I said to myself, this is bull crap. I just want to know where my dad is. The psychic goes, oh, the M word. Murder. He is in the basement. I lived in this house all my life. That's what I. I made this decision. I said, I'm gonna go find him. I'm gonna dig. I had a mission. People looked at me like, you're crazy. We were digging for months. There was nothing. All of a sudden, I hit something with the shovel.