TCO Throwback! Hot Coffee

Summary

True Crime Obsessed – TCO Throwback! Hot Coffee

Release Date: March 22, 2026
Hosts: Jillian Pensavale & Patrick Hines
Theme: An irreverent and incisive recap of the HBO documentary "Hot Coffee," digging past the media myth of the famous McDonald's spill case to expose broader issues about the U.S. civil justice system.

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Episode Overview

This episode is a "throwback" to True Crime Obsessed's 2019 recap of the documentary "Hot Coffee." While the documentary begins with the infamous McDonald's coffee lawsuit, it quickly pulls back to examine the attacks on the American civil justice system, PR manipulation, tort reform, and how corporations exploit legal loopholes (like mandatory arbitration) to avoid accountability. As always, the hosts blend sharp, funny commentary with genuine reflection and outrage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Reframing the Hot Coffee Case

Timecodes: [00:04] – [13:54]

• The hosts immediately call out the misconception of the Stella Liebeck case, underlining how the media turned a severe injury into a "frivolous lawsuit" punchline.
• Patrick: “If I ever hear about it in the wild, I can’t help but be like, well, actually, that’s not… Like, if I hear someone making fun of Stella, like, I would be like, no, no, no.” ([00:50])
• Jillian: “All she wanted was, like, her medical bills paid. Like, it wasn’t a big deal. McDonald’s sucks in this.” ([01:06])
• The hosts stress the visceral reality of the injuries, with Jillian emphasizing the importance of seeing the photos to counter media narratives:

  "The images of her burned body…are so bad, you guys…skin grafts, you guys. I mean, her skin was black and charred. It's indescribable." ([14:00–14:20])

• They highlight the orchestrated PR campaign that recast Liebeck as greedy and reckless, obscuring the facts:

  Patrick: "There was a very well orchestrated PR campaign creating the idea that this was all ridiculous.” ([07:27])

The Realities Behind the Lawsuit

[13:54] – [23:25]

• Stella Liebeck and her family initially requested only $10,000 to cover medical bills; McDonald’s offered $800.
• The coffee was served at 180–190ºF, far hotter than necessary for consumption.
• McDonald’s own quality assurance admitted to 700 prior burn complaints:

  "I'm glad the number's not higher. All right? I'm really pleased that it's not more than that." – Chris Appleton, McDonald’s QA ([19:18])

• The jury awarded $2.7 million in punitive damages, later slashed to $480,000 by the judge—yet the media stuck to the huge figure for sensationalism.

Tort Reform & Corporate Immunity

[23:25] – [36:15]

• The episode continues with the documentary, which pivots from Stella’s case to broader attacks on the civil justice system via “tort reform.”
• Hosts lampoon the public’s confusion over what tort/torte means.
• Jillian: “Tort reform is basically laws that restrict people's rights to go to court. It will restrict every person… to take on a massive company.” ([24:26])
• They break down the infamous “phone booth” example cited by Ronald Reagan as frivolous, revealing the true safety issues:

  "How many times does one phone booth have to get hit at an intersection before someone at the phone company is like, ladies, can we maybe move this?" – Patrick ([26:12])

• The ripple effect: Caps on damages in lawsuits result in taxpayers—rather than corporations—footing the bill when injuries occur.

Heartbreaking Impact: The "Colin" Medical Malpractice Story

[28:51] – [36:47]

• The documentary introduces Lisa and Colin: Lisa’s twins suffered from a missed diagnosis and medical error, resulting in severe brain damage for Colin.
• Jillian and Patrick express outrage at how medical malpractice caps fail families:

  "So Colin ends up with a few hundred thousand dollars. And so what happens is then he goes on Medicaid and the taxpayers have to pay, pick up the bill for his care." – Colin’s dad via the documentary ([34:00])

• Judges—not juries—ultimately decide payouts due to state-imposed caps, undermining the jury system promised in the Bill of Rights.

The Battle over Judicial Elections

[36:47] – [41:32]

• Exhibit 3 of the documentary covers how business interests (led by figures like Karl Rove) pour donations into electing “pro-business” judges.
• The story of Oliver Diaz (Mississippi Supreme Court Justice) illustrates the personal cost of crossing corporate interests—politically targeted, indicted, and removed from the bench despite a not guilty verdict.
• Patrick (humorously): “Oliver Diaz is super dilfy.”
• Insight: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce, a private lobbying group, presents as government-backed but actually wields unchecked corporate power.

Mandatory Arbitration: Silencing Victims

[41:35] – [47:12]

• The fourth segment unpacks “mandatory arbitration” via the controversial Jamie Leigh Jones vs. Halliburton case.
• Most people sign away rights to open court with credit cards, phone providers, and employers, usually hidden in fine print.
• Jillian: “We’ve all signed it, you guys… Every credit card company, every phone company.” ([43:49])
• Even in horrifying situations (e.g., sexual assault allegations), these clauses funnel claims into private forums stacked for corporations.
• The hosts briefly acknowledge later controversy with the Jamie Leigh Jones story, focus the segment on the legal mechanism rather than the specifics.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On PR and the McDonald’s case:

  “Just warn me that I’m gonna have nightmares. In three, two—” – Patrick ([13:41])

• On Stella’s real injuries:

  "It's the worst burn you've ever seen. She's also an old lady. She's 79. Like, she cannot just jump out of the car…" – Jillian ([14:47])

• On legal caps and taxpayer burden:

  “The son is still going to get the care. It’s just now the hospital is not going to pay for it. The taxpayers are going to pay for it.” – Jillian ([34:22])

• On judicial elections:

  “They had to take out loans they couldn’t even afford. Their own campaign put a pin in than that. But they end up winning the election. I was like, I didn’t see that coming… then we cut to the wife and the wife’s like, winning that election was the worst day of our lives.” – Jillian & Patrick ([40:10–40:20])

• On mandatory arbitration:

  “We are at the mercy of them. And that is truly the point of this section.” – Patrick ([47:12])

• Patrick, in classic TCO style, riffing:

  “I have a theory about this movie. It’s called Hot Coffee. So you think it’s about that case of that woman who sued McDonald’s because she spilled hot coffee on herself? Yeah—it’s not really about that.” ([03:31])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• The Myth vs the Facts of the Hot Coffee Case: [03:31]–[13:54]
• Stella's Family & Medical Evidence: [11:44]–[14:47]
• Jury Decision & Media Spin: [21:28]–[23:25]
• Tort Reform Explained & Ridiculed: [23:25]–[26:28]
• Caps on Damages/Colin’s Medical Malpractice Story: [28:51]–[36:47]
• Judicial Elections & Oliver Diaz: [36:47]–[41:32]
• Mandatory Arbitration – Jamie Leigh Jones Case: [41:35]–[47:12]

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Final Reflections & Takeaways

• The Hot Coffee case is a microcosm: It’s less about one woman’s lawsuit and more about how corporations manipulate public perception and law to minimize their own accountability.
• Juries’ power is undermined: State-imposed caps and judicial activism often strip the public of meaningful legal recourse.
• Corporate tactics are omnipresent: Through PR, tort reform, judicial election influence, and fine-print arbitration, corporations systematically tilt the playing field.
• A mix of sass, insight, and heart: The hosts weave together moral outrage, fabulous asides (e.g., Patrick’s fantasy drag name “Frivolous Lawsuit”), and thoughtful calls for balance between legal access and fairness.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This "Hot Coffee" recap dives far deeper than the tabloid punchline, exposing the distortion of facts, the fragility of citizen power in the courts, and the everyday ways that corporations cement advantage. Through humor, outrage, and a ton of pop culture references, Jillian and Patrick achieve their trademark TCO mix—leaving you both furious at injustice and fighting to protect your right to sue.

Transcript

[A]

Hi. Julian Benavalli.

[B]

Hello. Patrick Hines.

[A]

Fam. We are so. Okay, so a couple weeks ago in the Andrea Yates episode, we were talking about the documentary Hot Coffee.

[B]

Yeah, because it's one of those things where, like, you think you know the truth, and it's definitely. Andrea Yates is much darker and there are a lot more layers. But Hot Coffee was one of those cases where, like, everyone was making fun of it. And really, if you knew what happened, like, it is not what the media made it seem.

[A]

It blew my mind. I remember I like watching this documentary. I was like, wait, what? So, fam, as you know, we've got our bonus episodes coming up, and we thought it's sort of like a lead up to that we might throw in a couple of, like, throwback episodes between now and then.

[B]

Talk about a throwback. This first aired January of 2019. So I don't even know who those two people are that you're about to hear.

[A]

It is so wild because the thing that whenever I think about a date like that, like, the pandemic barreling towards us, and we had no idea.

[B]

Zero why. Oh, and this is also. This case is my, like, insufferable GP fact case. If I ever hear about it in the wild, I can't help but be like, well, actually, that's not. Like, if I hear someone making fun of Stella, like, I would be like, no, no, no.

[A]

We've seen the photos, and it was really bad.

[B]

All she wanted was, like, her medical bills paid. Like, it wasn't a big deal. McDonald's sucks in this.

[A]

It's 100%.

[B]

They still have the best fountain coke in the universe. And they were so super, super wrong here.

[A]

If I'm on a road trip, am I stopping for, like, a cheeseburger and a ten piece? Like, no question.

[B]

I don't understand why we mustard. Why they have to also be assholes.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Which they super were.

[A]

I would like the follow up of this to be called Hot Mustard. And just a documentary about the sauce.

[B]

Well, you got to make it.

[A]

I know. All right, fam, have fun. Enjoy.

[B]

Have fun. We love you. By.

[A]

Jillian Pensavale.

[B]

Patrick Hines.

[A]

Oh, we really feel welcome to 2019.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

We have to explain to the people. So, you guys, we recorded our Jonestown episode before our, like, winter vacation. We haven't seen seen each other in, like, two weeks.

[B]

Yes. Hi. Horrible.

[C]

Hi.

[B]

Are you real? Like, George Bailey. Are you real?

[A]

Don't forget to check out our Patreon, you guys. It is bonkers binge. All of our coverage of the cereal staircase.

[B]

The cereal. Okay, what's the other one?

[A]

I always forget?

[B]

The jinx.

[A]

The jinx.

[B]

And now Making a murderer.

[A]

Making a murderer. You guys, I got it. I'm going to say it again. I love it. I love doing making a murderer. It is hilarious. Congrats. Hey, Chris, in this most recent episode, you said. Oh, sweetheart, that's just what your actual voice sounds like.

[B]

I said that?

[A]

Yes. Anyway, we love you guys. Join our Patreon fam.

[B]

Yes. We're having the best time. Oh, my God.

[A]

If you guys are listening to anything other than TCO in 2019, you're doing it wrong. There, I said it.

[B]

Girl, girl, girl, girl.

[A]

What are we talking about today?

[B]

Oh, girl, girl.

[A]

We went through modulate. Girl, girl, girl.

[B]

Me mama. Hard to do that. I'm a professional singer. I took voice lessons for a while. Guys, don't even worry about it,

[A]

you guys. We are getting 2019 started, right?

[B]

We miss each other so much.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

This movie was so boring. I was so excited. The thing is, well, it's called Hot Coffee.

[A]

Yes. And I had seen this movie before and I really liked it.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Just for our purposes, it was super boring. Guys, we're gonna make you laugh, I promise.

[B]

Yeah, we had to learn a whole bunch of shit about the court systems and all this stuff, but it's really. And it's a little bit. I have a theory about this movie.

[A]

Tell me.

[B]

It's called Hot Coffee. So you think it's about that case of that woman who sued McDonald's because she spilled hot coffee on herself?

[A]

Yeah, it's not really about that.

[B]

It's not. They sucked us in 100% thinking this is going to be about that, that one case. And then they forced us to learn and get super angry at like big companies. Totally did it to us again.

[A]

We're going to spend most of the time talking about the hot coffee case though because that's the first like 15 minutes of the movie.

[B]

And the random people on the street who meet throughout those chubby Philly queens. Hoagie. You guys, it's a sandwich or.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or it's a her.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Yeah. Come on, get a grip, everybody. An 81 year old woman has been

[C]

awarded $2.9 million after she sued McDonald's. It wasn't like the McDonald's employee took the coffee, threw it on her.

[B]

Who brings these frivolous lawsuits?

[C]

All kinds of people. People that are jackpot justice oriented. The media in corporate America did a masterful job. Mrs. Liebeck became a Joke businesses use a number of devices to keep the public out of the courts. In my line of work, you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda. I was burned so severely that they didn't think I would live.

[B]

Are you gonna show me the burns? What?

[C]

Yes. If I saw injuries like that, I would definitely take a different view of it. She was drugged, she was raped, gang raped. She had to have reconstructive surgery, sir.

[A]

Ms. Jones has had her day in court.

[B]

Four years to fight to get in court is not a day in court.

[C]

The Appeal was a book I published. It's completely fiction and it's completely true. It's a story of the purchasing of a Supreme Court seat in Mississippi. It's a good payoff. You put money in a judicial raise, it can have literally a million dollar impact on your company. The US Chamber mounted a very, very large and expensive campaign against me.

[B]

When you're pregnant with twins, it's really important to determine how many placentas. When I went in, it should have been immediately followed up with an ultrasound.

[C]

You just want to change what happened,

[B]

knowing that it was preventable to go

[C]

to court and to sue. You have to go through a lot of trouble to do it. It affects your life. You're going to be attacked in all kinds of ways. Going to court to gain justice is heroic.

[B]

So the movie starts with an episode of Seinfeld. Basically.

[A]

Stupid music.

[B]

No, it's still Larry David.

[C]

I spoke to a lawyer. We're suing for millions. Suing?

[B]

What for?

[C]

The coffee was too hot.

[B]

The movie's making the point that, like, immediately this case became a laughingstock.

[A]

And then you guys. Then it cuts to Andy Rooney, and I just have Andy Rooney, you bitch. Listen to what she has to say.

[C]

I've been thinking of quitting work here and suing big companies for a living instead. Suing has become a popular American pastime, and I'd like to get in on some of that. Easy money, girl.

[A]

Oh, my God. Andy, sweetheart, Someone is a bitter old bitch.

[B]

Yeah, she was holding the coffee between her legs while driving. Not true, you guys. It didn't happen, you guys.

[A]

This is basically an urban legend.

[B]

That's what it became. Now, do you remember this case when it was, of course, a thing.

[A]

I remember it, like, even when I was seven and this happened. I was reading only the headlines, of course. So, like, of course I know what everybody else knew, right?

[B]

Which was, did you think she was driving recklessly? Like, with the top down just like, fuck it. This like 80 year old, like, like champagne.

[A]

Woo. This 80 year old lady name Stella, just like taking her bra off and throwing it to the wind. Yeah.

[B]

And waving it. Fuck you, McDonald's.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that as we'll find out, like there was a very well orchestrated PR campaign creating the idea that this was all ridiculous.

[B]

Right. The term frivolous lawsuit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which now watching this documentary, it was like, wait, I've said that a hundred times.

[A]

Also my drag name.

[B]

Amazing. I would see you every Tuesday night at the Stonewall. At the Stonewall, where every night's a riot. I would totally go see you.

[A]

Come to our pride show, you guys.

[B]

Oh my God. Frivolous Lawsuit will make her debut.

[A]

But first we're gonna take it to the streets and we're gonna see what other. What random people on the sidewalk know about the hot coffee case.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The woman, she purchased the coffee and

[C]

she spilled it on herself. I mean, it wasn't like the McDonald's employee took the coffee, threw it on her. Now that in itself, then she would've had a lawsuit.

[A]

This is a thing that happens throughout this documentary. This documentary crew loves the idea of interviewing people on the sidewalk.

[B]

So the woman's name is Stella Liebeck,

[A]

which, by the way, you can't beat that name.

[B]

You can't beat that, man.

[A]

Stella Liebeck is like, right.

[B]

So she's the one who sued McDonald's and she won. Family throughout this documentary.

[A]

The first woman still is no longer with us.

[B]

Right? She's not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we have footage of her from back when this case was really big.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

And we meet Nancy, one of her daughters. And Nancy, I know what Nancy's trying to say, but right from the beginning it sounds a little ridiculous. She's like, the thing about my mother is that she never dropped anything, ever. She was 79 and never dropped a thing in her life.

[C]

My mother at 79 was very active. She drove, she drove well. She very seldom dropped anything. She very seldom spilled anything.

[B]

Nancy. I know, I get it. I get what you're saying, but it just. That's crazy.

[A]

No, I remember I had like the same. She won the lawsuit. Nancy, you don't have to convince us and just say.

[B]

The point Nancy's trying to make is like, she worked full time up until this, this lawsuit happened. She was a very capable older woman.

[A]

She was 79 years old.

[B]

It was until the working full time

[A]

until the week before. Unbeliev. And also, what a fucked up retirement gift.

[B]

I know my mother Very seldom dropped or spilled anything. I honestly, now that you're asking me, I can't remember a single time I saw her drop anything. Like, Nancy, you won. So this documentary is broken down into like four exhibits, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the whole thing is like, how, like the. Every person is screwed by big companies.

[A]

Right? Exactly.

[B]

So exhibit one, the public relations campaign. And this is why we're focusing on Stella Liebeck versus McDonald's. Because the whole thing is that, like, the media, and also not just the PR campaigns, media bought it hook, line and sinker and believed everything the press release told them and then reported it as such. And then like, the late night comics were making fun of her. Even Weird Al, who I love, like, got in on it.

[A]

Oh, I know.

[B]

Because it was displayed as fact. Someone was swinging their bra around with a convertible down and like, spilling coffee on themselves for fun and then suing McDonald's for the hell of it.

[A]

Exactly. So this is when we get back to the people on the street where it's like, what do you. You know, you've heard of this case. What do you think happened?

[B]

That one woman is like. Well, in my mind, I picture her as being like. As pouring the coffee all over. I got this p. That she actually pulled up, maybe took the coffee and dumped it. You know, you're on camera, right?

[A]

And then so her daughter Judy is the one who says to us, like, girl, you think you know this case, but you don't.

[C]

What would you say if I told you she wasn't driving?

[B]

Oh, no, she was driving.

[C]

What would you say if I told you that's a wrong report and she was not driving? She was in the parking lot. She was in the passenger seat. My nephew was driving.

[B]

Here's something I noticed about Judy. Yeah, Judy, who's great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Judy's been through a lot and she

[A]

gave us a lot of good information.

[B]

But what she's like, I can't believe how many people know about this. Wherever I go, no matter who I talk to, they know about the case. Because Judy saying, did you. Do you remember that hot coffee case? No one knows the name Stella Lieback. I'm sorry. And no one certainly knows the name Judy Allen or whatever her name.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So no one's like, Stella Liebeck. Oh, by. By George, that's the woman with the hot coffee. Judy is going around asking people if they know the case and which is fine. But Judy, don't act like everyone's like, do you know who that is? That's the daughter of Stella Liebeck. That's Judy Allen of Stella Liebeck. That's Stella Liebeck's daughter with the hot coffee case. No one's doing that.

[A]

She cannot walk down the street. You guys, let her live, please.

[B]

No pictures, please.

[A]

So then we meet. So Stella had been in the car with her grandson. Her. You guys, I love this so much. Her grandson gives us the grand tour of the actual McDonald's where this happened.

[B]

They go back to the scene of the incident. His name is Christop.

[C]

Dropped off my uncle at the airport and went to the nearest McDonald's that I knew of. And this was it. So pulled up, she ordered coffee with her value meal, and I knew she liked cream and sugar in it. There was no place in my 1989 Ford Probe. Everything sloped. There were no cup holders in that car. I pulled out of here knowing that we. I needed to get organized if I was going to be eating and driving. And I knew she wanted to put her cream and sugar in the coffee. So pretty much pulled right here almost exactly in this spot.

[A]

You guys, I honestly got, like, the hairs on my arm stood up. He pulls into the actual parking space.

[B]

Right?

[A]

This is famous. I was like, I want to go to this parking space and get my picture taken.

[B]

It's horrible.

[A]

I know.

[B]

I live with a coffee cup with a big goofy smile.

[A]

I totally would. Do anybody lives in Albuquerque? You guys? Does anybody know where this parking space is? Go take a picture.

[B]

Oh, my God. So then he's like, well, I pulled it to this very stop, and she put in the cream and sugar. And I don't know, a short period after that, she just started screaming. And here we are.

[A]

Which, you guys, She's. It's funny because Jillian's funny. It's kind of crazy because they show us the pictures.

[B]

Yeah. Like right now, I only knew the

[A]

pictures were coming because you told me,

[B]

but they do it well in the documentary.

[A]

So I was going to say, so they go back to the people on the street, and, like, the people are

[B]

like, are you going to show me the burns?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Would that change your mind at all?

[C]

Wow. Yes. If I saw injuries like that, I would definitely take a different view of it from what I hear from the media. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

You guys, filmmakers. There are issues that I have with this film, but please take note. That's a way.

[A]

That's how you do it.

[B]

That's how you do it without having on screen text or whatever.

[A]

It's like three, two, one, just.

[B]

Or something. You know what? Fuck it. If it's a really Horrible image. Do a title card for it. I don't care about your artistic integrity. Just warn me that I'm gonna have nightmares. In three, two.

[A]

Well, speaking of these nightmares, you guys, the images of her burned body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are so bad, you guys.

[B]

Trigger, warning, whatever. These pictures are truly horrifying.

[A]

Her skin is so badly burned. I also was thinking. I want to know that these pictures were taken with her consent. Of course they were, because they had to blur her lady part.

[B]

Of course. Of course they were for the. For. To get McDonald's to pay for the surgery, which is all they wanted. But anyway, it was so bad. Skin grafts, you guys.

[A]

I mean, her skin was black and charred. It's indescribable how.

[B]

Think about where you are right now. If you're driving. Put a little, like, pretend you have a coffee in between your legs, right? And not in between your. Squeezing your arms a little tighter. If it falls towards you, it goes on your thighs. And she's sitting, so there was a puddle of it. Just. That's how that's where it went, and that's where the burns are.

[A]

And those are the pictures they show.

[B]

Those are the pictures you should. And they are. I mean, it's not. It's the worst burn you've ever seen.

[A]

She's also an old lady. She's 79. Like, she cannot just jump out of the car the way I do when I see, say, a cockroach or a bee or an ant. A color I don't like. Poor Stella. She's had to sit there in a pool of her own, melting.

[B]

I know. I mean, you guys, the reason they're showing these horrible photos is to be like, see, I know. That's one of the. Like, this is a real. This is a real thing. This is not a litigious woman who's just like, I'll show them. No, no, no.

[A]

So then we get this, like. We get this, like, footage of Stella later being like, yeah, it really hurt, right back to the photos. And I was screaming. I thought we were done with the photos.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Now we're getting it from behind.

[C]

It's excruciating pain. I was burned so severely that they didn't think I would live.

[B]

So then we get into why there's a lawsuit to begin with. Here's the thing. All the family wanted was McDonald's to pay for the medical expenses, which they

[A]

didn't even think of.

[C]

Right away, we could see the extent of this injury. So we started saying, we need to ask McDonald's to pay for this. Under no circumstances would she ever sue or do anything like that that we thought that the company would take care of medical and everything would be done.

[B]

So now again, according to these people, Judy and her husband, they wrote a letter to McDonald's that according to them was like, hey McDonald's, real quick. Just wanted to give you a heads up that your coffee machines might be faulty and maybe you should fix them. Like according to them, it was a nicely worded letter. I mean it probably wasn't as it should not have been and that's fine. But according to them, it's like we were like all folksy. Like we just wanted to let them know about an issue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And also ask them to pay for the medical expenses. So the medical expenses were like $10,000 at least. Like just like from the beginning where

[A]

they were in the process at that point.

[B]

Exactly. McDonald's, what do they offer? $802, 0800 McDonald's where every time you pass them, they add another billion to that 800 billion sold thing. I know McDonald's has more money. So now we learned that this film is really about the civil justice system. And I guess they couldn the rights to Schoolhouse Rock because we get this. Hey there kiddos. The lesson today is about our constitution and the government way. Law making powers divided in three legislative, executive, judiciary, forefathers had their say.

[A]

The one interesting thing we learned from this song in this segment is that the whole idea of the three branches of government is that the judicial branch is where Joe schmo me and you can go up against McDonald's or IBM or some major corporation and be on equal footing.

[B]

Right. So now we get Stella's lawyer, Ken

[A]

Wagner, who you know is charging by the hour for this interview. Yeah, he's basically looking at the clock.

[B]

Yeah. To say this one important piece of information, and this is very important, the

[C]

coffee in question was brewed at temperatures that would approximate the temperature in your radiator after you dry from, you know, from your office to home. In discovery, we learned that in the franchise directives and manuals that the franchisee was required to follow that they had to have their waters at certain temperatures. And then they said that the holding temperature should be 180Fahrenheit to 190Fahrenheit.

[B]

Between 180 and 190 degrees. That's the holding temperature for coffee.

[A]

I don't, I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure that's the temperature of the sun.

[B]

Right. Like if I, if my hotness was A Temperature at least 180 is what you say.

[A]

Like, I can't come anywhere near you. When I read those numbers, it's. And I'll tell you, I gave it a goo. It's not much different now. Like, in the end of the movie, we find out that McDonald's just took it down by 10 degrees.

[B]

Let me tell you, I'm a baby. With hot drinks, with tea or coffee. Like, if I make tea at home, it sits there for half hour. I know I'm a total baby.

[A]

Are you the person who, like, makes a cup of tea, and no matter how long after you've made it, when you take that first sip, you make the wince?

[B]

Yes. Super husband Mike. It will attest where I'm just like, is it hot? He's like, it's. It's fine. I'm like, is it.

[A]

It's the hot drink wince. I make it that.

[B]

And I'm just like. I don't want it to touch my lips, but I don't want it. And then Mike's like, you're an adult, aren't you? So then we get this asshole, Chris Appleton.

[A]

Yeah. So now we're at trial. So we've proceeded into the trial. For some reason, this guy, Chris Appleton,

[B]

he's like quality assurance.

[A]

He's basically the guy who's in charge of this shit. And he's super smug. His testimony is, like, recorded on videotape. Like, he's too fucking busy to go to courts.

[B]

Right.

[C]

If you add up the bar history of McDonald's since January of 1983 until March of 92, it's over 700 burn cases. And that doesn't surprise you, does it? I can't say that I'm surprised or not surprised. I'm glad the number's not higher. All right? I'm really pleased that it's not more than that.

[B]

And he's like, wow, guys, great numbers all around. Great. I'm super happy with this number. Super happy. I mean, I'm happy it's not higher than that, but otherwise, like, I'm doing a great job. Everything's the best. Thank you so much. 700 people.

[A]

Well, listen, juror Marjorie Getman is also not impressed with him.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Marjorie Getman ran a comb through her hair for this interview.

[B]

She sure did.

[A]

She put on her turquoise suit and she sat down on her couch.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she was pissed off at his smugness, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I thought that was.

[B]

That was terrible that he was so indifferent about it, you know, Even if it was just one person that's enough

[C]

to pay attention to.

[B]

I mean, it was. It's so easy to burn at that temperature. And they were so indifferent about it. And then the interviewer says to this Chris Appleton quality assurance asshole. He's like, okay, so let me just get this straight. 180 to 190 degrees. If you were to actually drink that, you probably shouldn't do it at that temperature because you'd burn your throat, right? And he's like, no, you totally shouldn't drink it.

[C]

If you were to take a sip of that coffee enough to where you could feel it go down your throat. You can't do that at 180 to 190 degrees, can you? Because you'll be burned. You better not do that. You will get burned.

[A]

Girl, are you hammered right now?

[B]

Yeah. He's like, yup, that's totally right. You said you should absolutely not drink it.

[A]

He's either hammered or they gave him some of that Oswald sodium pentathol.

[B]

Yes. The true serum.

[A]

Like, girl, what are you. I don't understand. Like, whose side are you on here?

[B]

But my question is, like, what is it that McDonald's is like, we're just gonna. This is the hill we're dying on. It has to be at minimum 180 degrees. Like, it doesn't cost you anything to change it. I just don't understand.

[A]

I love the idea that, like, the owner of McDonald's gives a speech at a convention with, like, the swelling music.

[B]

You are not changing it. He's like 180 degrees. Say it with me. And everyone's like, 180 degrees. Nazi rally for whatever reason. So now we meet some of the jurors. Like, you were talking about another juror

[A]

who's not nearly as fabulous, so I didn't write her name down.

[B]

I love their. Both of their polyester pants.

[A]

I know, I know. They're both great grandmas.

[B]

Yeah. And the thing is, they're like. They're just like, look, they assigned 20% fault to Stella because she did spill the coffee. Sure, there are probably better ways to. I'm not victim blaming. I'm just saying. But 80% to McDonald's.

[A]

Yes, because they knew about the problem

[B]

and they were ignoring it.

[A]

That's why. 700 complaints, right.

[C]

The fact that it was their own records really damned McDonald's as far as I was concerned. Because it was very obvious that they knew there was a problem and they were ignoring it completely. Just totally disregarding the consumer safety.

[B]

So the jury gives Stella $160,000 in damages. But 2.7 million in punitive damages. What are punitive damages?

[A]

So this really fierce lady who seems mad, but I like her.

[B]

She's like another lady hero. Put her with Gemma and our lady heroes from the. Yeah, she's a lady hero. I love her.

[A]

She's her whole. Her whole attitude this whole time was like, do I really have to explain this to you?

[B]

She has a Kathleen Zellner, like, I'll do it. Don't bother with the people on the street. God.

[A]

But this is what she tells us about punitive damages.

[B]

She's great. At a party, she orders gimlets. I bet. I love her. I love her. Punitive damages are very rare and they have a specific purpose, which is to essentially change the behavior of the wrongdoing. And so now the judge, garbage judge, we never meet, decides to reduce those damages just because. And I'm like, wait, the jury? Doesn't the jury decide what the fuck?

[A]

So fucking crazy.

[B]

So he reduces those damages from 2.7 million down to 480,000. But you guys don't worry about it because they wrote in super boring paperwork that no one's going to read that McDonald's engaged in willful, wanton and reckless behavior. So as long as it's in a pile of paperwork that no one will ever read, it's all good. Do you guys get my tone? You get what I'm trying to do there?

[A]

Great. So you know, she gets the 480,000. All anybody in the media hears is $2.7 million. And this is where the media goes crazy. Weird Al writes that really fun but kind of mean song.

[B]

I know. So then we learn about tort reform. And in my notes I'm like, she sounds fun. What's she all about? But then we realize that we hate tort reform.

[A]

The other thing is nobody knows what it is.

[B]

Yeah, we're back to the people on the street Derby. Derby Derp.

[C]

Totally.

[A]

My favorite is this is when they go find those queens in Philadelphia. I have no idea what a tort is.

[C]

A torture torte is a piece of. I think a torte is a piece of bread that looks like a hoagie

[A]

roll but isn't a hoagie roll.

[B]

It's the way you say hoagie that really bothers me. Everyone on the street thinks torte is some kind of dessert or a bread based thing. And the thing is, they're not wrong because a torte is a pastry, but it's also something else.

[C]

So a tort is a harm when someone commits a Torture. They have harmed you in some way.

[B]

So the thing is, remember when I was excited about tort reform because I thought she sounded fun. No. She's a nightmare. We don't like tort reform, you guys, because it's basically laws that restrict people's rights to go to court. It will restrict every person.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To take on a massive company.

[A]

And you know who loves it? Massive companies.

[B]

Right. And politicians.

[A]

And politicians.

[B]

Because then the massive companies will fund their campaigns and their election, and on and on we go, and everything is terrible. Pass the vodka, please.

[A]

Here we are in 2019. If you want to know how we got here, watch the boring parts of this document. Yeah, you guys, Ronald Reagan makes an appearance in this one. So all of the conservative politicians are for tort reform. Right? And they're all talking about, like, all of these frivolous lawsuits. And he's like, you gotta hear this one.

[B]

Right? Like it's a joke.

[A]

Right?

[C]

In California, a man was using a public telephone booth to place a call. An alleged drunk driver careened down the street, lost control of her car, and crashed into the phone booth. Now, it's no surprise that the injured man sued, but you might be startled to hear whom he sued. The telephone company and associated firms.

[A]

But he sues the phone company.

[B]

Can you believe it? Actually, I can. Here's why.

[A]

I was like, one of our lady heroes is gonna tell us what really fucking happened here.

[B]

And she does.

[A]

We get a Hamilton rewind wind.

[C]

There's a telephone booth in the corner of a very busy intersection in Los Angeles. And this guy was standing inside, and he saw this car coming right at him, and he tried to get out of the phone booth and the door stuck. And the reason that this was the fault of the telephone company is that there'd been lots of other cases where this telephone booth had been hit by cars because it was in a very dangerous position and it hadn't been properly repaired, so the guy couldn't get out. And so he was hit inside the phone booth. He lost his leg. He was extremely ill. Let me ask you something.

[B]

I can't. How many times does one. One phone booth have to get hit at an intersection before someone at the phone company is like, ladies, can we maybe move this? I feel like it's not a good place to have a phone booth. Am I right?

[A]

I want to be a fly on the wall in the meeting where they're like, so that phone booth on the corner of, like, yeah, keep it.

[B]

It's fine. We got other things to worry about. How are Those ads doing you guys.

[A]

It's the third time this week that it's been somebody died.

[B]

Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Ah, this woman is just talking and talking and talking. Does anyone else hear her? God. Anyway, how are we gonna use our millions to screw everyone in the world? Well, let's get Harold screwed because it's his bachelor party. Focus, everybody. This is a business meeting.

[A]

And poor Cindy just goes back to her cubicle skull.

[B]

Cindy, I love you. You're better than this. Get out of that job, girl. Quit even if you don't have anything. Quit. You're better than this.

[A]

She quit her job and she went to work at the Glamour Shot studio. She got yelled at about that cat.

[B]

Yeah, it's Cynthia. Cyn. Girl, you're okay. Open a bakery or something. You'll be fine. Do follow your heart. What do you want to do? You get Cynthia. You can be anything you want, I promise. You want to be a doctor? Shit, you read on the Internet, you could do that. So now we get W. George W. Bush comes along.

[A]

Okay, listen, I had to stop and text you because, you guys, I'm going to say it. Our kooky Uncle George, who's best friends with Michelle Obama, he was hot back in the day.

[B]

All right, you mean in the footage they showed now or when he was, like, in college doing all that coke and avoiding the draft?

[A]

Yeah, I'm talking about, like, when he was running for governor of Texas.

[B]

This black and white photo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the one where he looks like Ted Bundy. Is it that photo? Guess what, you guys. He's called the tort reformer in chief. Basically.

[A]

Hilarious.

[B]

And the thing is, like, this is also a documentary of the importance of just, like, your whole life is homework now, right? Because the, like, even in a state of the union. And when he's saying, like, all of these doctors are out of work and we can't have that happen, and gynecologists. And I'm like, wait, wait, what? But then we get footage of one of his most famous gaffes ever.

[A]

Wait, I didn't know that this was famous because I wrote it down, because I was like, this is the weirdest thing I've ever heard anybody.

[B]

This is super famous.

[C]

Too many good docs are getting out of business. Too many OB GYNs aren't able to practice their. Their love with women all across this country.

[B]

Did you not remember that?

[A]

I didn't know. I'd never seen that before.

[B]

That's on Every listicle, every montage of him, it's like. It's like right after, like, fool me, fool me twice. Can't. Can't fool me again. Like, it's right after that. Share their love of women all around this country.

[A]

Exhibit two, caps on damages.

[B]

Yeah. So basically, we meet now a new kid case. It's the case of this kid called Colin.

[A]

Yeah. You guys get the tissues? This is fucking awful.

[B]

This is absolutely awful. But what we're learning about. We're back on the street asking randos, what do they think caps on damages means? They actually do kind of know this one.

[A]

The thing is, this is the. I was asked this when I was. Went in for jury selection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, what did I think of caps on damages? I had never heard it before, but I used my little noggin and some

[B]

Sherlock Holmes the shit out of that.

[A]

I was like, you guys, this is not a hard one.

[B]

No, it's caps on damages is caps on damages.

[A]

Right. So they're talking to these two bros on a stoop.

[C]

Cap is public oversight on abuse.

[A]

It's a limit for how much money

[C]

you can get from, like, the tobacco

[A]

company that killed your wife because of lung cancer or.

[C]

I don't know. You can only sue your doctor for so much. Right. Isn't it? It's like, because there's abuse, and so you have to set a limit.

[B]

You also said bro. Oh, you said bro, but you were quoting somebody else. Don't worry about it. I was like, you looked horrified, like I was gonna take your glitter card away. Your glitter card is attacked, sweetheart. And they look like Wall street bros or lawyer bros. They're like associates or juniors somewhere. They're wearing, like, those. Those, like, briefcase. Those, like, sides.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

They only kissed that one time when they were super hammered. They were mostly joking.

[B]

They were totally joking if anyone asked. But between them, they lingered a little

[A]

longer than a typical joke would have.

[B]

And suddenly their hands are getting a little closer.

[A]

And then their girlfriends walked in.

[B]

Yes. It was awesome. So here's this heartbreaking story about Colin.

[A]

You guys. Okay, I am really getting to that place where I cannot handle anything with kids.

[B]

I hear you. We're going to breeze right through this.

[A]

Yeah. This is not.

[B]

Not in a disrespectful way, but in a way where it's like, we're just going to save the sanity of all our listeners. Just kind of tell them the facts here. So we learned that Lisa was pregnant with twins.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And she noticed that something was kind of wrong around 36 weeks and she went to the doctor. She was feeling movement. She would feel movement. And then she felt, like the change in the movement.

[A]

Yeah. She said, like the twins before bed, they would move a. And they weren't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And she had an appointment the very next day.

[B]

Right. So she goes to the doctor at Dr. Nola. I went in and I told her, and she's like, well, let's listen to the heartbeats. And she listened to the heartbeats, and she said, you know, the heartbeats are normal. Every, you know, it sounds. You know, everything looks good. And so I'm. I was reassured. Here's the thing that I learned. I learned a lot in this documentary. She mistakenly says that Lisa had two placentas when she only had one.

[A]

One.

[B]

It's really important to determine how many placentas when you're pregnant with twins, that if there's only one placenta, then it's a high risk pregnancy. So when I went in with my concern on Monday, it should have been immediately followed up with an ultrasound and, you know, stress tests. And had they done that, they would have seen what was happening was the twin to twin transfusion syndrome, where one baby starts getting everything and the other baby's getting nothing. So now Lisa needs an emergency C section, and one of their sons is perfectly healthy, and the other, Colin, has severe brain damage. So turns out, not unlike McDonald's, this Dr. Nola had been sued for malpractice before.

[A]

You guys.

[B]

The Charlies didn't know that before they went in to see Dr. Nola. She'd been in court before, sued two other times, both for malpractice.

[A]

You guys, I wrote that. I wrote that out for Jillian, and I even did the dot, dot, dot.

[B]

Like I needed it. Please. I could do this shit myself.

[A]

Sleep. I needed a laugh. I was like, I know I'm gonna need a laugh at this point.

[B]

You guys, how is she still practicing? I'm sorry. After being sued.

[A]

I know. Let me tell you what she was sued for. Do you want to know what? What? They were both pelvic surgeries.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

One.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

One of them caused a woman to go into menopause 10 years early. The other one, she burned the lady's bowel.

[B]

Okay, you know what?

[A]

She burned her bowel.

[B]

Yeah. After those things, she still.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Still.

[A]

I know. This whole section is to talk about the cap on. On damages, Right?

[B]

And the thing is, Colin needs care for the rest of his life. So when his parents aren't around, who's gonna care for him?

[A]

And what is the Only thing the parents keep saying over and over and over again, like when we're not here, when we're gone, who's gonna. And, and basically what happens is like they sue the hospital. They were told that they were gonna need $6 million for his care for life.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And they were awarded $5.6 million by the jury. Yep. And the dad is like, you know what, we can make that work. Like we can figure out a way. Like I'm sure one of them works at least. And they can figure it out.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Over the course, it's gonna be their Life.

[B]

Now this 5.6.

[A]

So that when they're not, I'm going to sob. So when they're not around, he has care.

[B]

Of course, a good care. Not just handing them off to the state for whatever they find out.

[A]

And the jury didn't know that there was a cap in their state.

[B]

That's the other infuriating thing. Juries were not told that there was a cap.

[A]

You know, I was thinking about this today. What would the jury, what could they even have done if they did know?

[B]

Just do the ultimate. That the, the most they could possibly give. Because once you are awarded something over the cap, it goes to the judge.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then the judge decides, well, it's over the cap. So I'll decide what it is. If the cap is 2 and the jury did 3 million, the judge could say 1.2.

[A]

Right. And so the judge reduces it to $1.25 million, which is not going to cut it. And the dad makes the point that like, I feel like maybe gets lost a little bit.

[C]

And then the cab comes in and says, no, no, no, no, that's not right. You get this amount of money and then, you know, pay your lawyers out of that and pay your some medical bills. And so Colin ends up with a few hundred thousand dollars. And so what happens is then he goes on the Medicaid and the taxpayers have to pay, pick up the bill for his care.

[A]

The son is still going to get the care. It's just now the hospital is not going to pay for it. The taxpayers are going to pay for it.

[B]

Exactly. Now he's on Medicare or Medicaid or whatever. Right.

[A]

So. And this is the thing that comes up in our politics all the time, where people are voting against their best interest. All of the people who vote, either the people in or for the constitutional amendments that make these caps possible are the taxpayers who are going to be paying when things like this happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where do you think the money comes from?

[B]

Right.

[A]

This is care that this kid is going to need and is going to get.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Whether the hospital pays for it or the people of Nebraska pay for it. I am fired up about.

[B]

I know. And you should be, and everyone should be. So here's the thing. They're taking all of that power away from the jury.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which goes against the Bill of Rights. You guys, cue the other Hamilton reference I was saying before. Look back at the Bill of Rights, which I wrote, says James Madison. Because the whole point was that you can't just, like, think a jury is actually deciding this and then swoop in at the last minute and be like, sorry, jury. Actually, I'm doing this as a judge.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because judges are bought and sold by politicians all the time.

[A]

And so this congressman is as fired up as I am about it. And he has this to say.

[C]

Juries, not legislators, get to determine questions of fact in the courtroom. And one of the most important issues of fact decided in a civil jury trial is what the appropriate damages are to compensate someone who has been injured due to the fault of another. You would agree with that. I don't disagree with that. So why does the US Chamber spend so much money trying to convince us that we know more about the value of someone's injury or death than the people who elected us to Congress, who go into jury boxes all over this country under the seventh Amendment to the Bill of Rights?

[A]

And the other thing that's happening in this segment that's so heartbreaking is that the other twin is fine.

[B]

Right? I think it was that syndrome that I didn't know about. Yeah, it's heartbreaking.

[A]

See these, like, images of, like, the other twin, like, driving the kid around. Like, he can't see, he can't walk. It's just awful. And the parents keep coming back to, like, you know, they're young and healthy now, but, like, you know, they're just looking down, like, 50 years down the

[B]

road, and they're like, what if it's your kid? Vote like it's your kid.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And the thing is, I want to say something to those parents. If you're listening, they are superheroes. How they can sit to camera and talk about this and not be hysterical messes?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I give them all the hero bells in the world. They are strong, badass people.

[A]

All right, let's talk about Oliver Diaz.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So now we're in exhibit three. This is called judicial elections, and this is basically some bullshit where Karl Rove comes in and starts basically buying Supreme Court elections, right. So that they can pass this tort reform in every possible state.

[B]

Right. Because finally, eventually, the laws are deemed unconstitutional, because they are. So Karl Rove is, like, in his lair, like, ooh, Mr. Burnsing the shit out of it. Like, excellent. Like, okay, well, we'll just go state to state then. Yes, that's what we're gonna do.

[A]

And meet this guy. We meet this guy Oliver Diaz, who's super dilfy. You guys. I don't care what anybody says. Oliver Diaz is super dilfy. So he was a Supreme Court justice in Jackson, Mississippi. I guess on the state level, you run for Supreme Court justice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know how it works, but he was running for reelection.

[C]

He had these interest groups that were interested in electing judges that they deemed to be pro business. I was not deemed to be pro business. And the U.S. chamber mounted a very, very large and expensive campaign against me in 2000.

[B]

So now he's running, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's running against some asshole who Karl Rove is backing. And so he has all this money. The other. His opponent has all this money from the US Chamber of Commerce. And Oliver Diaz is just like Oliver Diaz and, like, his bank account.

[A]

And these. These state elections famously have zero money in them. Like, you spent a couple thousand dollars or whatever. This guy, his opponent has a million dollars.

[B]

Oliver Diaz has to run against the U.S. chamber of Commerce, basically.

[A]

So. So now they're doing another man on the street where they're, like, asking people, yeah, what the U.S. chamber of Commerce is.

[B]

Can we have Billy Eichner do it next time at least?

[A]

Can you imagine him being like, hey,

[B]

you gays, it's not part of the government.

[A]

I'm obsessed with Billy.

[B]

Me too. Billy girl, call us, please. My favorite is when someone is going on too long. He's like, you're not ready. It just, like, runs. Or it's just something and just runs away.

[A]

I could watch the Billy on the street shit all day.

[B]

Oh, me too. So what's the U.S. chamber?

[A]

I'm not really sure. Something dealing with the government.

[B]

It was my understanding that it was a government agency, but I'm not sure of that.

[C]

Probably they are engaged in managing something. Trade. Do they engage in managing trade throughout the United States? I go with that.

[A]

I had heard of the U.S. chamber of Commerce, and I was a fool, too. I thought it was a government organization like these other dummies about business.

[B]

Yeah, because when you say the U.S. u.S. Chamber of Commerce.

[A]

Yeah. It's like how all of those, like, anti gay marriage organizations are Called like family love is one together for the family. Yeah.

[B]

Or like the anti abortion people.

[A]

We are all the people of the rainbow. And it's an anti gay organization.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So basically we, we get this like on screen text, it says the chamber of Commerce is like 100% not a government organization.

[B]

Not even close.

[A]

We get this on screen text that says it's a membership organization of businesses and it's the largest lobbying group on behalf of organizations.

[B]

And. And they don't disclose their funders.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We have no idea who's. But it's like Pfizer. It's every big corporation you could possibly think of.

[A]

So this is who Oliver Diaz is like running against.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And the thing is with his like $600.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And his like dilfy haircut.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Looking good in a T shirt and jeans.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And it's like boots.

[B]

Absolutely. I'll let you have this. He's not Charles Manson, so you can have this one. Go ahead, keep going.

[A]

So Oliver Diaz and his wife are telling us this like uphill battle story, right?

[B]

They had to take out loans they couldn't even afford. Their own campaign put a pin in than that.

[A]

But they end up winning the election. I was like, I didn't see that coming.

[B]

And I'm like, oh my God, they won. And then we cut to the wife and the wife's like, winning that election was the worst day of our lives. And I'm like, oh, wow, I'm so deflated.

[A]

The long and the short of it is this Oliver Diaz guy had to take out a loan so that now the anti Diaz people are saying that was a bribe.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He basically gets taken off the bench for three years while he's like litigating this battle.

[B]

And then that summer Oliver was in

[C]

indicted, and it just kind of started spiraling downhill from there. I almost kind of didn't believe Oliver.

[B]

I said, there has to be something here. You're not telling me the truth.

[C]

They wouldn't bring these charges against us and do this. All of these counts. You're facing a hundred and some years in the federal penitentiary. We have millions of dollars in fines.

[A]

Millions of dollars in fines.

[C]

We have two small children.

[A]

He of course, is completely. It's all like, not guilty, not guilty, not guilty. And you know, the whole three years he wasn't on the bench. He says this great thing where he.

[C]

What they weren't able to do through an election, they were able to do with a federal prosecution, federal investigation to keep me off the bench, to ruin my reputation, to make it That I probably wouldn't be able to be elected again to the Mississippi Supreme Court.

[B]

And he's like, I'm going to run again. Let's do this again. One more time around the block. Let's go. But does he have the money? Of course he doesn't.

[A]

And he loses.

[B]

Right.

[A]

All right, you guys, we're at exhibit four. It's called mandatory arbitration.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Quick note. There's two things about this segment that are problematic. It heavily features Al Franken, who, like, had to resign the Senate last year after a sexual harassment scandal. And the woman at the center of it, her name is Jamie Lee Jones. Her story was. Later pieces of it were called into question. So there's a Mother Jones article about it that we read. We're going to post it in the Facebook group, but we are going to just. We're going to focus on it as though it. We just cover what's in the documentary.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We want you to know that we know that things have happened since now.

[B]

Absolutely. And the thing is, it's less about her story and more about what mandatory arbitration is. So we're not going to really focus on the story necessarily, because we know. We only know so much, and there's a lot behind the scenes. And we're not going to misspeak or have opinions about things we don't know about.

[A]

Correct. Let's do it.

[B]

Okay. This is the case of Jamie Lee Jones versus Halliburton.

[A]

Yeah, that sounds intimidating.

[B]

It sure does.

[A]

And so basically, this young woman in Texas, like, works for Halliburton.

[B]

I worked for Halliburton in Houston for a little bit over a year before I decided to go to Iraq. Those that go over to Iraq get promoted when they come home also. I mean, my goal was to just work there forever. I was content there.

[A]

You know, it's a great job. And she's thinking of it as, like, a lifetime job that she's going to have forever.

[B]

She's 19 years old.

[A]

Right. She's, you know, made to believe that, like, it's not that dangerous to go there. Like, she cites the statistic that you're more likely to die in a car accident than you are in Iraq.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So part of her contract, and she does not know this at the time, this comes in, in later, but part of her contract is that if anything goes wrong, if she ever wants to sue Halliburton, she can't. It has to go through arbitration. So they do another Whole thing of, like, what is mandatory arbitration?

[B]

Mandatory arbitration is somebody has to be

[C]

involved in the case, isn't it?

[B]

Or something. Because arbitration is how the case is.

[C]

Oh, it has something to do with case files. Have you heard? No, I've heard the two words used separately.

[A]

It just means that, like, you can't go to a court of law. Like, the company Halliburton will hire a company to come in and arbitrate your differences.

[B]

So it's basically you versus the company privately and not in front of a jury of your peers.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And we. We've all signed it, you guys.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Every credit card company, every phone company.

[C]

When you first sign a contract with a cell phone company or a credit card company or whatnot, there won't be any reference or any mention of the arbitration clause. But then at some point, the company decides to. Decides to add it. So what they do is they send out in incredibly tiny print a little booklet that they stick in with the bill. And what almost everybody does is you look at the bill and you throw everything else away. But that's where they send in the arbitration clause. And then what they say is, if you ever use your phone again or you ever use your credit card again, that you've supposedly agreed to mandatory arbitration.

[A]

Do you know, I think about that every time I get a new credit card, you guys.

[B]

We're all bad. It's all bad. Leslie Knope always, it's all bad. We all agreed to everything.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Fingers crossed. Nothing bad happens, you guys. God.

[A]

So Jamie Lee Jones is in Iraq for three days, you guys.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Her living situation is a mess. She was told she was going to live with one female. She ends up living in the barracks with, like, all men, all these dudes.

[B]

She says that she's like, hey, I'm super uncomfortable. She, like, calls her the boss.

[A]

She calls someone several times.

[B]

I don't really want to be here with all the dudes. Can you get me out of it? And apparently, the guy's like, you'll deal with it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Her story at the time of the documentary is that she was roofied and very brutally gang raped.

[A]

Yeah. And then, like, woke up the next morning, was really disoriented, went and complained about it, and then was taken to, like, a shipping container.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Where she was guarded by, like, armed guards for two days.

[B]

Yeah. And then she finally, like, one of them, like, felt bad enough for her that they gave her a phone. And then she called her dad, and then her dad called, like, someone in government to try to get her story told and get her the hell out of there. She's a 19 year old girl.

[A]

And the only reason we're telling the story in sort of a quick manner is because, as I mentioned, some of this has been called into question in recent years.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So we're just saying what she said at the time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The point is when she came back, when she finally got back to the United States and wanted to sue Halliburton over this horrific situation she had been through, she couldn't.

[B]

Right. And then Al Franken sort of becomes her champion.

[A]

And Al Franken does great work on this case. He. His whole like, situation here is that he wants to stop allowing the government to fund contracts to defense contractors that force arbitration for rape, sexual violence, sexual assault, false imprisonment. It's all good discrimination. All the work that he's trying to do is good. So Jamie ultimately, like, goes to meet Al Franken in his office and this is. It's this pretty cool thing where like, like she's sort of like a small person and you see her in this, like the halls of power, and Al Franken walks in and he's very welcoming to her.

[B]

Thank you so much for all you do.

[C]

Thank you for your courage. Amazing.

[B]

It's very nice to meet you.

[C]

Nice to meet you. You have an incredibly courageous daughter and also with a tremendous amount of persistence.

[B]

So way to go.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

So Al Franken is like working on

[B]

this bill inspired by this story.

[A]

Right. And the bill passes.

[B]

Right. Which is great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is, this is the end of the documentary anyway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But there are a lot of ups and downs about this and we don't know a lot of details. But the point is companies, gigant corporations who have zillions and zillions of dollars that every person can never compete with.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Are sneaking little clauses into things that we, we can't avoid signing to make it so that we can't be on an even playing ground with them, that we can't bring it to the courts.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

They are backing us into these corners where we are at the mercy of them. And that is truly the point of this section.

[A]

Yeah. And then it sort of ends with sort of like an update on everybody. So Colin, the. The twin that was born with all of the. The disappearing, he's on his 10th surgery. 10th surgery. Oliver Diaz, the lawyer, he's in private practice and he serves on the board of the Mississippi Innocence Project.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Girl still dilfy you guys still dilfy to the same. Look him up. Jamie was so after that, Al Franken Bill passed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she was actually able to face Halliburton and her accusers in court. She did. She. In May of 2011, she went to court again. There's an article about that from Mother Jones from 2011. We're gonna put that in the Facebook group. You can read that, you guys.

[B]

You know, we talked about it when we had a phone call in the middle of today.

[A]

I had to call Jennifer. I was like, oh, no. This story is problematic for a lot of reasons.

[B]

Yeah. It's another phone call thing. You guys, we care about this.

[A]

We care about.

[B]

We do our research. For sure. This is all important. I'm glad we now know all of this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it kind of. It's a little biased in the sense that the ending is like, everyone who sues, everyone has a right to do so. Sometimes people are dicks. Sometimes people are trying to take. Take advantage. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, can we find a middle ground? Sure. Like, do the big businesses have to control everybody and that every person have to be like, a little teeny tiny and, like, can we meet the middle somewhere where, like, we can have an even playing ground in some way? Please?

[A]

And the best metaphor for that is now McDonald's puts the cream in the coffee for you.

[B]

It's. It sure is.

[A]

Oh, girl, we did it then.

[B]

You guys, it's just. It's bad. So, Jesse, we got a laugh.

[A]

Don't forget to check out our Patreon where you can binge all of our cereal.

[B]

Jing Jinx.

[A]

Making a murderer.

[B]

You guys, there are so many, we can't even keep track.

[A]

The point is that there's so much stuff. All of the extended outtakes, all of the other bonus episodes, all of the

[B]

mini episodes, all commercial free. And you get them instantly. Your phone is going to be telling you that you. You don't have enough storage. I promise you we're going to be. We give. We give you so much content that it's annoying.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

You're going to have to, like, delete those old photos. Put them on the cloud or whatever.

[A]

Yeah, get rid of them. Bye, you guys. Love you.

[B]

Bye. Love you. Thank you.

[A]

He was the deputy chief of staff. He was the Josh Layman.

[B]

Josh Lyman.

[A]

Josh Lyman. I have to take that to clean.

[B]

Girl, you sure do. Don't even put it as an outake. I'm here for you.

[A]

They can get all that corporate money, and as we're. I just. Wow, that was weird.

[B]

She ordered a coffee with her value meal.

[A]

I know. I actually wrote, you get your value meal.

[B]

I love her. I probably wouldn't love her perfume. It seems like maybe she wore a big, like, flowery. She probably opens, like, candies at the theater.

[A]

Oh, Marjorie. No, girl, if you don't.

[B]

I'm sorry, Marjorie. I don't mean to assign you anything. I'm just saying I have this image

[A]

that if they had interviewed you, you would have been sitting there with your headphones on with sunglasses, and you would have pulled your glasses down and gone, I know what a tort s is.

[B]

No. And then if one would just peer from behind me, like, because they have those long necks, peer behind me, just shake its head and just squint their eyes. And now that person's cursed forever. That poor NYU filmmaker is cursed forever. Also, what the fuck am I doing sitting in Washington Square park with a tortoise? I had a cat coming, and I learned this really cool term that I'm kind of obsessed with. They call them astroturf groups because they are supposed to look like grassroots groups, but they're really AstroTurf. And I'm like, get it? Because it's fake.