Killer Pretends He “Forgot” What He Did: The Case of Jackie Vandagriff

Summary

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True Crime with Kendall Rae

Episode: Killer Pretends He “Forgot” What He Did: The Case of Jackie Vandagriff

Release Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Kendall Rae

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Episode Overview

In this deeply empathetic episode, Kendall Rae explores the chilling case of Jackie Vandagriff, a vibrant 24-year-old student whose promising life was brutally cut short by Charles Bryant—a man who later claimed not to remember his actions. Kendall puts the victims and their humanity at the forefront, shining light on Jackie’s life, her aspirations, and the ripple effects on those around her, including another intended victim, Caitlyn Mathis. The episode delves into the investigation, Bryant's manipulative behaviors, his lies and eventual partial confession, and the broader themes of stalking, victim-blaming, and enduring trauma.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Victim-Centered Introduction: Jackie Vandagriff (01:11 – 10:46)

• Kendall opens by expressing frustration over the senselessness of Jackie’s murder and the lack of a clear, satisfying motive.
• Jackie’s Background:
  • Born March 4, 1992, in Carrollton, TX.
  • Described as energetic, patriotic, and passionate about health and wellness.
  • Attended Texas Woman's University, majoring in nutrition and wellness.
• Emotional Moments:
  • Kendall shares a self-introduction clip from Jackie:

    “I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness. … As far as my career aspirations go, right now I'm most interested in corporate wellness.” (05:35 – 06:30)

  • Jackie’s lighthearted YouTube “beauty haul” video snippet further humanizes her:

    “If I've ever helped you with skincare stuff, I probably told you to buy [CeraVe]…You could probably find some kind of face wash that would turn me into Beyonce or something and I would still be like, no, I'll take this every time.” (09:08 – 09:54)

2. Discovery and Shock (10:46 – 14:44)

• On September 14, 2016, Jackie’s dismembered and burned remains were found in a blue kiddie pool at Acorn Woods Park near Grapevine Lake.
• Initial confusion and devastation among friends and family, as Jackie had no known enemies; the attack appeared completely out of the blue.

3. Constructing a Timeline, Identifying the Suspect (14:44 – 18:20)

• Law enforcement retrieves surveillance:
  • Jackie seen at Fry Street Public House and later at another bar, Shots and Brew, with an older man—Charles Bryant.
  • Around 9:45pm (September 13), last seen in Bryant’s car outside a convenience store.
• Disturbing post-mortem activity:
  • A tweet from Jackie’s account (“never knew I could feel like this”) appeared after her death, believed to be authored by the killer.

4. The Charles Bryant Backstory & Pattern of Stalking (18:20 – 33:06)

• Focus on Caitlyn Mathis:
  • Charles Bryant, then 29, began aggressively pursuing 18-year-old Caitlyn after her high school graduation.
  • Displayed classic signs of manipulation and possessiveness—repeatedly ignoring breakups, showing up unannounced at her dorm and work.
  • Kendall’s commentary:

    “It's very disturbing when a 29-year-old man is going after a woman who just turned 18 and just graduated high school, as in just graduated like the day before.” (17:19)

• Law Enforcement Support:
  • Lt. Jeremy Polk took Caitlyn’s complaints seriously, swiftly instituting no-trespassing orders and helping her obtain an emergency protective order.
  • Bryant's repeated violations led to several arrests, but he kept posting bond and resuming harassment.
  • Armor of victim-blaming from Bryant’s friends and his intense, melodramatic emails to Caitlyn.
• Creeping Parallels: Grapevine Lake, where Jackie’s remains were found, was a place Bryant had frequented with Caitlyn.

5. Investigation and Interrogations (34:40 – 48:27)

• Initial Arrest and Denials:
  • Bryant picked up again after further contact with Caitlyn; questioned about Jackie.
  • Classic deflection:

    (Interrogator): “I want to get to the truth. You telling me you just saw her at a distance is not true.” (37:39)
    (Bryant): “That's like, I don't know her. That's insane… I don’t really remember anything. That's insane.” (38:31 – 39:05)
    Kendall's reaction: “Very convenient. So he basically goes on to say that he was blackout drunk and doesn’t remember anything that happened with her.”

• Evidence Flood:
  • Surveillance showing him with Jackie, buying a shovel and gasoline, and at the dump site; forensic evidence (Jackie’s bag, knife, hacksaw with hair, stun gun) found in Bryant’s possession.
  • Bryant encountered a neighbor at Walmart and bizarrely asked, “how to get away with murder?” (41:52)
• Interrogator’s tactics: Pressuring Bryant with evidence, calling out inconsistencies in his memory and behavior.

6. The Partial Confession & Texas Ranger Jim Holland (48:27 – 52:30)

• Enter Texas Ranger Jim "Serial Killer Whisperer" Holland:
  • Uses buddy-buddy, non-threatening approach, even aligning with Bryant’s misogynistic worldview to extract a confession.
  • Bryant bumblingly confesses:

    “Turns out it was me. It's totally me. There's no doubt about it. But I just want to go forward with it … It's jail. I'm fine with that.” (46:57 – 47:53)

• Kendall’s disgust at self-victimization:

  “He can't just be a man and fully confess and own up to what he did…. Now I'm going to die in jail or maybe get the death penalty. Poor me.” (48:27 – 48:47)

• Holland suggests possible mitigating scenarios, encourages Bryant to remember, who finally tells a story blaming Jackie for her own death (consensual "kinky sex gone wrong"). He describes dismemberment and burning in detail.

7. Lack of Motive, Community Impact, and Trial (52:30 – 59:30)

• Motive remains unclear:
  • Kendall posits jealousy, anger at Caitlyn, or lack of control may have driven Bryant, but concludes “there’s no super clear motive.”
• Ripple effects:
  • Caitlyn discovers Jackie’s killer used Jackie’s phone to friend her on Facebook after the murder.
  • The trauma extends; Caitlyn struggles with survivor’s guilt.

    “She wishes this happened to her and not Jackie, and that's not something anyone should feel.” (59:00)

• Jackie’s legacy:
  • Vigil held; an endowment established at Texas Woman's University in her name.
  • Family encourages donations to Operation Kindness, an animal shelter, honoring Jackie’s compassion for animals.

8. Trial Details & Outcome (59:30 – End)

• Trial (April 2018):
  • Despite surveillance, physical evidence, and confession, Bryant pleads not guilty, claims accidental death.
  • Defense pushes “kinky sex” argument despite lack of biological evidence and overwhelming circumstantial proof.
  • Caitlyn’s testimony barred from jury consideration, further traumatizing her.
• Verdict:
  • Jury convicts Bryant of murder and tampering with evidence.
  • Sentence: Life in prison with possible parole after 30 years; plus 20 years (to be served concurrently) for evidence tampering.
  • Discovery of child sexual abuse material on Bryant's phone adds another layer of horror.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kendall Rae on incomprehensible evil (01:11):

  “Sometimes with some killers there is no way to make sense of the things that they do … they are just pure evil and come out of deep rooted insecurities and just being a total freak if I'm being honest.”

• Jackie, sharing her future (05:35):

  “I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness….”

• On Bryant’s narcissism (17:28):

  “He tried to pull this whole 'you'll never find anyone better than me' kind of bullshit, and that’s something that only the most insecure of men manage to find the audacity to say.”

• Kendall calling out Bryant's memory charade (39:05):

  “So insane. I just remember nothing. Very convenient.”

• Texas Ranger Jim Holland gets a confession (46:57):

  “[Bryant]: ...Turns out it was me. It's totally me. There's no doubt about it…”

• Kendall on the trial’s outcome (61:16):

  “He was sentenced to life in prison, thankfully, but he unfortunately has the possibility of parole in 30 years...With good behavior, there’s a chance that he will walk free one day.”

• On Caitlyn’s survivor's guilt (60:01):

  “Caitlyn feels guilty for what happened … I hope with time, she’s been able to understand that she had no fault in this…”

• On family empathy and healing (62:10):

  “...Jackie's grandma actually went up to Caitlyn and told her that she had been super worried about her over the past two years.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:11 | Introduction & Jackie’s background | | 05:35 | Audio from Jackie’s introduction video | | 09:08 | Audio from Jackie’s beauty haul video | | 10:46 | Discovery of Jackie’s body & initial investigation | | 14:44 | Timeline of events & identification of Charles Bryant | | 18:20 | Caitlyn Mathis’ history with Bryant & escalation | | 21:27 | Bryant’s stalking, police reactions, campus protections | | 34:40 | Bryant’s arrest, initial interrogations | | 36:07 | Bryant’s denials and contradictions under police questioning | | 39:05 | Review of overwhelming evidence against Bryant | | 46:37 | Texas Ranger Jim Holland’s interrogation; partial confession | | 51:53 | Jim Holland’s tactics and drawing out more of Bryant’s account | | 52:30 | Theories on motive; emotional impact on Caitlyn, family response, Jackie’s legacy | | 59:30 | Trial, defense tactics, barring of Caitlyn’s testimony | | 61:16 | Sentencing details and aftermath | | 62:10 | Moment between Jackie’s family and Caitlyn, ongoing empathy and support |

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Episode Tone and Conclusion

Kendall Rae’s storytelling embodies compassion for the victim, unwavering critique of the perpetrator, and insight into the systemic issues of stalking, violence, and the criminal justice system. Her candid, sometimes blunt observations ("I think Charles is truly evil" [61:15]) and focus on both emotional impact and practical legacy (endowment, donations) leave listeners with a sense of personal loss, community resilience, and a call to remember and honor victims beyond their tragedy.

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Transcript

[Kendall Rae]

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[Kendall Rae]

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of True Crime with Kendall Rae. Thank you so much for joining me today and if you're new to the show, then welcome. I'm happy to have you here. So guys, today we're getting into a case that is. I feel like I say this pretty much every week. It's frustrating. It's frustrating for a different reason than it's normally frustrating in my opinion. And that's because I still just cannot wrap my head around why this happened. There was a motive established by the prosecution and for the most part I agree with it. I just still wish I could understand more. It just makes no sense. And I guess sometimes with some killers there is no way to make sense of the things that they do. They that sometimes they are just pure evil and come out of deep rooted insecurities and just being a total freak if I'm being honest. And today we're going to be talking about the murder of 24 year old Jackie Vandegrift who clearly had her whole life ahead of her and she just sounded like a fantastic human. But she is not the only victim in this case. There was also another young woman at the time. Her name is Caitlyn Mathis and I think she very easily could have ended up in Jackie's shoes and I'm just so grateful that she wasn't. But it's devastating to think that the same can't be said for Jackie. It's a confusing one and I feel that There's a good chance you're going to be left just feeling a little bit confused the way I am, where it still just doesn't make any sense. And with that, let's go ahead and get into this case. And as always, I want to start out by talking to you about today's victim, Jackie Vandegrift, who, like I mentioned, was so, so young when this occurred. Now, her full name was Jacqueline Ray Vandegrift, but like many Jacquelines, she liked to go by Jackie. She was born on March 4, 1992, in Carrollton, Texas, to her parents, Sonia and Ricky. And she also had one sister whose name is Jenny. And when she was growing up, Jackie, of course, had lots of interests. And one of her first interests when she was a kid was the show Thomas the Tank Engine. I was born the year after Jackie, and this show was so big when we were growing up, and she loved it so much that she would even reenact different scenes on her own little train set. And then, like a lot of toddlers, Jackie's next interest was gymnastics. And she has been described as having been a super high energy kid. And apparently she was doing somersaults before she could even walk. And eventually she managed to compete at level five in state competitions. Then when she was in middle school, she and her family moved just up the road to Frisco, where she eventually went on to attend Wakeland High School. And I couldn't quite pinpoint where this began. I don't know if her was this way or she was just always this way. But Jackie was a super patriotic person and of course she loves celebrating the Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Veterans Day. And every year she would root for the Navy in the army vs Navy football game. And when I was looking more into her background, trying to get more of an idea of who she was, I looked at her Facebook account and I found one of her most recent posts, and it was from July 4th of 2016. And she wrote, it makes me sad that this is the last Independence Day we get to celebrate with Obama as our president. And you know what, girl? I was feeling the exact same on July 4, 2016. But anyway, I could also see from her Facebook that she worked as a cocktail waitress at Sambuca360 and that she got her esthetician's license from Paul Mitchell, the school in Dallas. And I also learned that Jackie was very passionate about health and wellness, and her loved ones say that she cared a lot about people caring about themselves and wanted to see everyone thrive and that actually fueled her desire to go to school to study nutrition and food science, with an emphasis in wellness, of course. And so Jackie started attending Texas Women's University in Denton, Texas. And by the fall of 2016, she was 24 years old and entering her junior year. And it seems like she had to make this little about me style introduction video for one of her classes, which I'm assuming probably was very uncomfortable, very awkward to film. I would have absolutely hated that. I know I am on camera all the time now, but back then especially that would have just been too much. I would have had to take a million takes. But as soon as I saw this, I knew I wanted to share because it really just shows you a glimpse of Jackie. And it's so nice to hear her voice.

[Jackie Vandegrift]

Hello, everyone. My name is Jacqueline Vandegrift, but friends call me Jackie. I am originally from the Colony, Texas, but I moved to Frisco when I was in elementary school and I graduated from Wakeland High School. I am currently a junior here at Texas Women's University and my major is nutrition with an emphasis in wellness. As far as my career aspirations go, right now I'm most interested in corporate wellness. I think more and more companies are starting to recognize the need to provide health resources for their employees. So I think right now that's where I'm wanting to go with my career. In this class, I hope to learn more about how to use the resources available to reach different individuals and to communicate effectively with the amount of diversity that we have in our community, as well as just building on my overall communication skills.

[Kendall Rae]

So, yeah, I'm guessing that was for some type of online class. And yeah, it's weird to watch videos like that because it feels on one hand, it's really nice to have someone's memory and the way they speak and talk about themselves preserved in that way, but it's also just very eerie. I can't believe it. This year has truly flown by. But yes, it is true. Fall is in full swing and it is the perfect time to refresh that wardrobe with pieces that are going to feel as good as they look. And luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big without compromising on quality. You guys have heard me talk about Quince so many times. It is truly one of my favorite brands. It is such a go to for me. Every time I'm looking for new pieces for my wardrobe, I always stop at quints first. And it's just because they have all of those essentials that can Go with any outfit. Dress up, dress down, and perfect elevated essentials for fall, think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50 washable silk tops and skirts and perfectly tailored denim. All at prices that just feel too good to be true. And I'm currently eyeing their wool coats. They look designer level, but they're a fraction of the price. I just cannot believe the price actually. But the quality, oh my gosh, it's just as good, if not better. And you can feel good by shopping at Quint because by partnering with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middleman, Quint is able to deliver those luxury qual pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish and effortless. I know you can't see me, but I am currently wearing a Quint piece. Today I'm wearing their organic cotton relaxed oxford shirt. And this is one of my favorite pieces in my wardrobe. I wear it at least once a week. It's just so easy to throw on. It's lightweight enough for this time of year where it's not too hot and it's not too cold yet. But sometimes I get a little chilly and I'm able to throw it on with a tank top and still feel like I'm pretty put together. So keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com tckr for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E dot com tckr to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/TCKR and on that same note, I did some more digging and I found her YouTube channel and she has one video uploaded and it's an ulta beauty haul, which I couldn't help but relate to that. You know, that's how I started on YouTube was making like beauty hauls and little makeup videos and stuff. And like I remember filming some of my earliest videos. They were very similar to how she did this one.

[Jackie Vandegrift]

Hi everyone. So this is my first video and I am sitting on my floor. I was trying to decide if it would be more weird to do this sitting on my floor or standing in my bathroom. And I decided to go with this because this way I didn't have to clean my bathroom and I think the lighting is a little bit better in here. So I'm really excited to be doing my first video. I've been meaning to start incorporating social media into what I do for work and my job and I haven't really been good about that. But I think today would be a good time to start because I just did a little haul at Ulta. So let's start with my favorite product of all time is the CeraVe Foaming facial cleanser and the PM facial moisturizing lotion. I've been using these for like seven years. If I've ever helped you with skincare stuff, I probably told you to buy them just because I've tried so many other things and I always go back to them and they work really well. They work for a lot of different skin types. You could probably find some kind of face wash that would turn me into Beyonce or something and I would still be like, no, I'll take this every time. I like it. I think that is it. Thank you for watching this video. This is the first of hopefully many videos. So if you have any ideas, anything you want to hear about, any questions that you would like me to address or just any comments, leave a comment below or send me a message on Twitter. If you're watching this, you probably follow me on Twitter. So just send me a message and thank you for watching.

[Kendall Rae]

Yeah, again, just tough to watch. It's just she's so innocent and yeah, I don't know what to say. I mean, I don't often get to find clips like that and I feel very thankful when I do and I get that glimpse. But then, yeah, there's something about it that's just really, really tough and uncomfortable to watch. And what makes it even more eerie to watch is that video was uploaded in February of 2016. And it's really hard to imagine, but in just a few short months after she uploaded that Jackie would be gone. So that brings me to September 14, 2016. And it was just before 6:30am when a 911 call was placed from Grapevine Lake to report a fire at Acorn Woods Park. And when first responders arrived, they were absolutely shocked to see that this was so much more than a fire because they're inside of a burnt up blue kiddie pool was the dismembered remains of a body. And the damage from this fire was so severe that at first they weren't even able to tell basic characteristics about the victims, such as their age or even their gender. But fingerprint testing was completed the following day and it confirmed that these were the remains of 24 year old Jackie Vandegrift. And when I tell you guys that not a single soul in her life could have seen this coming, I'm not joking. She didn't have some angry, scorned ex boyfriend or really any problem with any of her friends. No enemies. This was completely out of the blue. Her friends and family just could not even begin to conceptualize who would have done something like this to Jackie. But investigators, on the other hand, it thankfully did not take long for them to identify a suspect. And that wasn't based on physical evidence because as far as the crime scene was concerned, there was actually very little evidence to point to who could have been responsible. Besides the 911 caller saying that they saw a guy standing over the fire who also drove away in a white colored suv. That was about the extent of their knowledge. However, when they traced Jackie's last known steps, someone stood out right away. Of course, one of the things that the investigators did right away was try to make a timeline leading up to her death and try to get a sense of her last known movements. And they were able to track her down to a bar on the night of September 13th, the night before. And this bar is called Fry Street Public House. And she was there around 8pm or so, and she was actually there looking for a job. But through surveillance video, investigators could see that she ended up sitting at the bar and striking up a conversation with this older man who at times can be seen touching her arm and flirting with her. And when they cross referenced her social media, they saw that about 40, 45 minutes later, she tweeted, I'm glad I decided to get off Tinder, and walked to a bar. Which made investigators think maybe this tweet could be about the guy that we saw her at the bar with. Maybe this dude is the one who was responsible. But it didn't stop there. So then around 9pm, Jackie and this guy and also the bartender can be seen leaving Fry Street Public House and heading towards another bar. And they ended up just down the street at a place called Shots and Brew, where once again, he and Jackie can be seen on surveillance. And they're actually seen speaking with a group of women. And at one point, this guy can be seen handing one of the women his business card. And so they track her down. And once they did, they were able to identify him based on this card. And it turns out this guy was 30 year old fitness instructor Charles Bryant. And that second bar actually wasn't the last time that they were seen together because after they left Shots and Brew, which was around 9:45pm, Jackie could be seen in the passenger seat of his car outside of a convenience store, which Charles was seen Entering alone. It was raining, so investigators believe that he likely had offered her a ride. But after this, the next time Jackie was seen was early that next morning when first responders put out the fire that engulfed her body. And what is so creepy is that someone tweeted something from her account after she was killed, because it was posted on September 15th, so obviously it couldn't have been her. And it said, never knew I could feel like this. And I'm not going to spend much time speculating on what this means because it obviously wasn't written by Jackie. It was written by her killer. And I don't know what they meant by it or do I really care? So clearly it doesn't take a genius here to put the pieces together and realize that Charles is likely the one responsible for Jackie's murder. And so investigators start looking into him, realizing that he's probably their guy. And when they initially look into him, like right off the bat, they realize that he has a restraining order against him. And not from Jackie, from someone else. Another college student named Caitlyn Mathis. And the story of what happened to Caitlin is so closely linked to what happened to Jackie that I need to rewind back in time a little bit and fill you in on Caitlyn's experience with Charles in order for you to understand how things happen with Jackie. And we don't have to go far back in time for that. Only three months. At the time, Caitlyn was 18 years old and she was working at a restaurant as a server before starting college at the University of North Texas in the fall. And that's where she ended up meeting then 29 year old Charles Bryant. And it was actually the day after she graduated high school that this creep started making moves on her. And of course, he made himself out to be this great guy. He was a bartender at the Urban Cowboy, which is a gay bar in Fort Worth. And he was also a personal trainer. And just take a look at this douchebag's mirror selfies. Oh, my God. Clearly he thought very highly of himself. And I'd like you to notice how every selfie he's standing like the same way. He's got his eyebrows slightly arched or majorly arched. And he always is doing some slight duck lip action. He really likes to push the lips up. I think he's going for, like, tough meet seductive. I don't know. But I hate everything about his selfies. And like we talked about recently, maybe last week or the week before, I can't remember exactly the age gap thing is really tough because I know in some relationships it's completely fine. And some people function very well in age gap relationships. And it's not creepy, but in this case I think it is. I think it's very disturbing when a 29 year old man is going after a woman who just turned 18 and just graduated high school, as in just graduated like the day before. And you want to go after her. Why is that? And listen, I totally get where Caitlyn's coming from. At age 18, it would be very enticing when an older man takes interest in you at a bar. I don't blame her at all. Of course I don't blame her, I blame him. But in fact, I actually applaud Caitlyn because after just a couple of weeks she already started to see the red flags pop up about Charles. And things did not last long with him at all. She could tell very quickly that he was super, super possessive. I think very insecure as well, and also just a narcissistic loser. He clearly thought the world of himself. And I know I also just said that he was insecure a moment ago. And I really think those two things can exist at the same time. I think people who portray themselves as obsessed with themselves, who come across that way, have deep rooted insecurities. And I think that is exactly who Charles is. And one of the main things that gives that away about him because obviously I've never met the dude myself, thank God. But he tried to pull this whole you'll never find anyone better than me kind of bullshit, and that's something that only the most insecure of men manage to find the audacity to say. So long story short, thankfully In August of 2016, Caitlin sees right through this idiot, realizes she wants nothing to do with him, that he's possessive and freaky and all the things, and she ends up breaking up with him. And I know her mom had to have been happy about that. And speaking of her mom, she actually said that when Caitlyn first showed her a picture of Charles, she thought that he looked evil. And it wasn't just because this nearly 30 year old man was pursuing her 18 year old daughter. I mean, that was definitely part of it, but it was also because to her there was just something about the way that he looked that gave her a deep chilling feeling in her bones. And I totally see what she's talking about. I mean, just look at those eyes. Something just screams not right. So clearly her mom was not for this relationship at all. But she also knew that her youngest daughter was going to do what she wanted and wanted to be supportive and she was an adult so really she can't find force her to end things with him. But like I said, Caitlyn quickly realized that he was a giant loser and ended things with him.

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[Kendall Rae]

And I'm sure you'll be absolutely shocked to hear that this big, strong, insecure little bitch in his heart was very upset and didn't want to accept that Caitlyn was ending things with him. Could not accept it. In fact, just one day after she dumped his sorry ass, he shows up at her mom's house and is begging her to take him back. And he made her a bunch of promises that he was going to change, he was going to be the best version of himself, blah blah blah, the usual bullshit. And at first it worked because sometimes it does. But it didn't work for very long because Caitlyn was only back together with him for like a week. Literally a week. And then she realized that he still sucks and dumped him. And this time when she dumped him, she told him, leave me alone. I am done with you. There is no more second chances. Get the fuck away from me. She was completely over it. And he definitely did not do that because in the early morning hours of Aug. 24, campus police ended up pulling him over because they thought that he may have been drunk driving, but he actually was below the legal limit, so they had to let him go. He had some traffic violations that he hadn't paid yet, but it wasn't enough for anything to really be done about it, so he was allowed to leave. However, later that day, of course, Charles loser ass was back on campus. And this time he went straight for Caitlyn's dorm room, which of course totally freaked her out because she never even told him which dorm she lived in, let alone which room was hers. And of course, Charles tried to make himself seem like less of a stalker by saying that, well, your name was written on the door. Her name was on the door. That's how I figured out where she lived. Okay, dude. What? So you went through every single room in the dorm until you found hers, and did you do that for every single dorm building? No. I think the most likely scenario is you were watching her, you were stalking her and following her. You figured out where she lived. That is pure speculation. Hasn't been confirmed. But I wouldn't put it past Charles. Okay, He's a freaky bitch. Of course he's going to be doing things like that. But anyway, he shows up, better door. And sources say that the two of them had a conversation in the common area. And I don't know how long of a conversation this was, but apparently they spoke for a little bit. And during that interaction, he tried to kiss her and she pushed him away. And even still, he begged her to take him back, but she wasn't falling for his, so she told him to leave and never come back. And Caitlyn's very smart. And when he finally did leave, she decided to go ahead and report this to the campus police. She basically explained to the Lieutenant, Lieutenant Polk, what was going on. Which was what? I've already told you that she has this creepy ex boyfriend who treated her really terribly. And now she was worried because he was showing up unannounced at her dorm and huge shout out to this lieutenant, he is awesome. Because he not only believed Caitlyn, but he vowed to make sure that she was protected. And he did his best. And I know just from cases that I've Covered. And my own lived experiences that a lot of campuses don't take things like this very seriously until there's repeated offenses or they feel like they have no other choice. But they moved quickly. Lieutenant Polk, I think, is a hero because immediately he issued a no trespassing order on Charles, which banned him from even coming on the UNT campus. But would you be shocked if I told you that that did not stop Charles? Because of course it didn't. And just a week later, his ass was back. On August 31st. This time he showed up at her new job at Buffalo Wild Wings. He went inside, handed her a note, and then proceeded to ask someone at the bar if he could be sat in her section. And poor Caitlyn, she is so freaked out by this. And she told him to leave, but apparently he wouldn't. And she even found out from a co worker that he had come in the day before and was asking about her, which is so, so, so violating and creepy. And just, I think, proves what I was saying earlier, that he was stalking her and figured out where she lived because she definitely didn't tell him that she worked at Buffalo Wild Wings, but he knew that she would be there, that she just started working there, and he knew what day she wouldn't be there so that he could go in and ask people about, I don't know what he wanted to know when her shift was, when she was going to be there. I don't know. Who knows? And so Caitlyn is totally stuck here. I mean, she just started this new job and she tells her manager about the situation and that he was coming in and stalking her and just told him the whole story. And the manager said that there was nothing they could do about it, which there probably wasn't at that point in time because she didn't have a restraining order or a police report filed. All that they had was the no trespass order on the campus. But this just shows you how truly scared Caitlin was of Charles. She ended up quitting that job even though she had just started. She actually decided to go back to the restaurant that she was a server at earlier that summer instead. And her mom even tried to convince her to move back home. But understandably, Caitlyn wanted to stay on campus. I totally get that her experience shouldn't be ruined by Charles. That's so unfair. Caitlyn also did contact the police again to let them know that he had showed up at Buffalo Wild Wings. And they ended up reaching out to him and straight up said that if he doesn't leave her alone. They were going to arrest him. But Charles can't do that. He can't control himself. He is a stalker in his soul. So what does he do? He shows up again at her dorm room. This time it was a week later on September 6th, which would have been their three month anniversary. And let that just sink in for a second. It hasn't been that long at all. And he is this obsessed with her. They didn't even make it three months. But anyway, this time when he shows up at the door, she looks out the peephole, she sees his ugly ass. And this time she's really afraid. Okay. There have been repeated instances. She's worried for her safety so she goes and hides in her closet. And then in the closet she calls the police and she's whispering because she's worried that if he hears her voice that he will know she's inside and just break in or something. Either way though, he knew that she was inside. And I don't know if that was because he was watching her or if he just maybe he heard her or he assumed that she was in there. But he ended up saying something through the door along the lines of, Caitlyn, I know you're in there, just open up, I have something for you. Now, eventually he did leave. Thankfully it didn't get worse than that. But when she went to the door, she saw that he'd left flowers, which I guess was something that he did a lot whenever he did something wrong, of course. And he also left her a two page letter. And I don't know what he had to say in that letter, but if I were to take a guess, I'm sure it was some half assed apology paired with some desperate plea to win her back and say how he can't live without her and all the typical bullshit. But Charles was not getting her back. That was not going to happen. The only thing that he was going to get it was arrested because the Police showed up 10 minutes later and found him outside the dorm area in his running clothes. Of course he's not wearing a shirt and they were able to arrest him for trespassing. Unfortunately though, he was able to post bond and got released within just a few hours. Like I said, Caitlyn is smart. She knew that after he was arrested that wasn't going to be enough for him to actually stop trying to contact her. So she took all the precautions she could at that point in time and blocked his phone number, blocked his email, blocked all his social media, blocked any way that he could contact her. But even after being arrested and being blocked on everything, that wasn't enough for Charles. He doesn't have the capacity to stop. He is a stalker. So he makes up a new email and emails her as soon as he's posted. Bailey and I don't have the full email, and I'm honestly glad that I don't have to read that nonsense. But here is part of it that tells you everything you need to know about it. It says here I am heartbroken and with a criminal record for bringing the girl I love flowers. And I don't know what type of melodramatic, sappy movie he was acting in in his head, but, yeah, he was the only character in that story. Caitlyn, on the other hand, as soon as she gets this email, she's calling the police again, and she's feeling very threatened by his ridiculous, unhinged behavior. And when Lt. Polk heard about this, he wasn't having it. He stepped things right on up. And right away he helped Caitlyn get an emergency protective order. And since Charles was still trying to get in contact with her, he and other officers ended up going to his house on the 7th, and they arrested him for stalking. And Lieutenant Polk says that he told Charles that he was not going to stop arresting him. And he planned to use every single one of his communications with Caitlyn to keep his ass behind bars. But unfortunately, he posted bond again and was free again. And following his arrest, Caitlyn said that his friends, Charles, his friends, he had friends, apparently, this guy. And they're messaging her, telling her to drop the charges, because, of course, I mean, according to Caitlyn, she thinks that he fed them a bunch of bullshit saying that she was the problem. Probably along the lines of, you know, she's crazy, she my psycho ex, something like this is ruining my life. And his friends fall for it and start coming to his defense. But there was no world where Caitlyn was going to drop these charges. So then, like before, things settled down for about a week. But back to September 14th. That is the day that Jackie Vandegrift's body was found. And her body was found in an area which, not so coincidentally, Caitlyn and Charles visited several times together while they were dating. It also didn't appear to be much of a coincidence that Charles was at Fry Street Public House the night before, apparently while they were still together. Caitlyn told him this was an area she was excited to go meet new students. And all these were connections that the homicide investigators were able to make once they identified him as their suspect and after they took a look at his record and saw that he had recently been arrested for stalking and that he had a restraining order against him, they got in contact with Lieutenant Jeremy Polk, who happened to be in the middle of a race when he got the call. And he's so dedicated to his work that he stopped racing. He sat down on a bench mid run and was speechless when he found out that Charles was now at the center of a murder investigation. And I was so blown away by Lieutenant Polk. I mean talk about someone who truly loves what they do, truly cares about the work they do. Because when he heard about the murder, he immediately calls Caitlyn just to ask if she was safe. And of course he wasn't able to say why he was calling. But. But Caitlin already knew about the murder. She had heard about it and she did say that she was safe. And thankfully Caitlyn was safe. Very happy to say that. But he didn't want to take any chances. And when he got the call that Charles might be their guy, he of course wanted to help bring him in. And it turns out that very morning after he had done what I'm about to go over Mr. I can't take a hint sent Caitlyn not one, not two, but five emails. And one of those emails included this picture of a tree from Grapevine Lake with text on it that reads first kiss under this tree once upon a time xxo and the rest of the emails were a combination of pleas for her to drop the charges and asking if they could reconcile because nothing says I love you baby, I want you back. Then repeated stalking and harassment. I mean, what a freak.

This episode of True Crime with Kendall Ray is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are all things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates.

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[Advertisement Voice]

I bet you've probably been to the doctor's office in the past few months. I bet you had to hand over personal info like your insurance, your id, maybe even your Social Security number. And I bet you weren't thinking about how your doctor is just one of many places that has your personal Information. If any one of them isn't careful, it's a good bet they could accidentally expose your details to hackers and identity theft, putting you at risk. Fortunately, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back with plans covering up to $3 million for stolen funds and expenses. Don't take chances with your personal info. Help protect it even when it's out of your hands. Save up to 40% your first year with promo code iHEART. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply.

[Kendall Rae]

But anyway, with all this communication, Charles was once again violating the restraining order. So they were able to easily bring him back in. He was arrested again. And like I said earlier, they didn't have any physical evidence tying him to the murder at this point, so they needed a way to bring him in that was legit. So this worked out quite well. So on September 18th, investigators were able to question him about Jackie. And no shock here at all, but he completely downplayed any connection to her at all. See for yourself.

[Investigator 1]

Obviously, there's been some issues that you've had up in unt. This is an ongoing issue, correct?

[Charles Bryant]

With England? Yeah. Okay.

[Investigator 1]

That is not what I'm wanting to talk to you about. What I want to talk to you is another case.

[Charles Bryant]

Okay.

[Investigator 1]

And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna show you a picture of a female that I'd like you to tell me if you recognize who she is.

[Charles Bryant]

They started a bar. Okay.

[Investigator 1]

What can you tell me about her?

[Charles Bryant]

Is that it? I guess so.

[Kendall Rae]

If you were listening to this episode and you didn't get to see that clip, you only got to hear it when they show a picture of Jackie. The way that he cranes his head forward and tries to look like he's confused. And he's never seen Jackie in his life. It's so obvious that he's acting. And even when the investigator is pushing, Charles tries to distance himself from her. And made it seem like they hardly interacted, which is not true at all. Take a look at this.

[Investigator 1]

Well, I mean, as far as. Did you ever get to talk to her?

[Charles Bryant]

She was talking to us. She drank. I'll talk to anyone who's there. But.

[Investigator 1]

Did you ever sit with her, the other girls ever hang around them and talk to some of them, interact any interaction with them other. Because the way you kind of Making it sound to me right now is that you're kind of standing in one.

[Charles Bryant]

Area, and they're in the other area.

[Investigator 1]

And you're just kind of watching.

[Charles Bryant]

Like, this would be the bar, and then it's like, literally just here, and they're over here.

[Investigator 1]

So you're over here, they're over here. Gap between the two of y' all and what? That's. That's all you recall?

[Charles Bryant]

I'm just literally drinking and BSing. I know she was talking to Katie about. I don't know.

[Investigator 1]

I was.

[Charles Bryant]

I was there to drink.

[Kendall Rae]

Sure.

[Investigator 1]

So, anyway, as far as any direct conversation with. With this young lady that you had.

[Charles Bryant]

I really just BSing, but nothing memorable. So I talked to a bunch of people that night. Okay.

[Kendall Rae]

Oh, God. The fact that he didn't even muster up this fake little laugh just makes me want to throw up. At some point, though, they've kind of got to give up the act a little bit and be like, dude, listen, we know that you know more than you're telling us. It's very obvious. I mean, are you stupid? We literally have surveillance footage to prove it. And. And his response, not the first person to use this. It's always amazing when people do this, but he just tried to say, I don't remember anything. Take a look.

[Investigator 1]

Hey, Charles, you know, I. I feel confident, you know, more than what you're telling us on this. This is one of those things that this has happened already. Okay? But the thing is, you need to really get out in front of. Of this, because what kind of happens is that, you know, when there. If there's charges that are filed against somebody who has committed such a terrible act, it's one of those things that the jury gets an opportunity to kind of hear and see what's going on, to see how this person reacted maybe when contacted by law enforcement. Is this something they're remorseful for? Is this something that they're going to just completely continue to lie about it? You know? So what I'm doing right now, Charles, is I want to get to the truth. You telling me that you just saw her at a distance is not true.

[Charles Bryant]

That's like, I don't know her. That's insane. It's like, okay, that's just blowing my mind out.

[Investigator 1]

We have video from those bars at Fry street that totally is different from what you're telling us and your interaction with her. Okay, so reconsider what you're telling us. Us right now. Because every little lie that you tell us, it makes us doubt even the Truth that you may want to come up with.

[Charles Bryant]

So I was drunk in that thought. That's like, I don't really remember anything. That's insane.

[Kendall Rae]

So insane. I just remember nothing. Very convenient. So he basically goes on to say that he was black out drunk and doesn't remember anything that happened with her. And what's interesting is before they told him that they knew about the murder, they had asked him how drunk he was that night. And he said on a scale of 1 to 10, he was like a 6 or a 7. So I don't know if I'd really put that in blackout drunk, don't remember the entire night category. Right? That'd be more like a 9 or a 10. And not only that, his dumbass even said that he remembered when and how he got home. So you remember those details, but you don't even remember this person's face. You don't remember anything about being with her. You don't remember anything about the entire night. It's just washed from your memory. You have amnesia for the night when it comes to Jackie. Okay, dude. So then eventually a new investigator came in and he called Charles out on all his. He explained to him that they were executing a search on his phone, his car, and his home as they were speaking, and they had already found a ton of evidence. Basically, they told him, look, dude, you're. You better start talking. Because they also told him that they had surveillance footage of him at Walmart at. At 4am on the day that Jackie's body was found buying a literal shovel. Look at that. God, this guy could not get any more stupid. And in addition to that, there was footage of him at a gas station earlier that morning buying gasoline. Did he not realize that this was 2016 and that everything that you do, everything that you buy is on camera? That you're not gonna be able to get away with something like this by being like, I don't remember. I was so drunk, I don't remember anything. And not only that, you guys. They also found her bag inside of his trash can. A military style knife, a hacksaw with hair on the blade, several guns, a zip tie with visible blonde hairs wrapped around it, and a stun gun. Not to mention, they saw that there was a dead spot of grass in his backyard that looked like a kiddie pool had once been there, but now that spot was magically empty. And his roommate even confirmed that there had been a little kiddie pool there, but said it recently went missing. And his roommate also said that Charles had told him that he had dug some holes out there to make a koi pond. Yeah, he was really trying to convince his roommate that he was just doing a little fun project, making a koi pond in the backyard. And not only that, they had already traced Jackie's phone records and saw that Jackie's phone had traveled to Charles's house that night after they left the bars. Which lines up with the footage that they found of Jackie inside his car. Car outside of the convenience store. In fact, her last phone ping was at a cell tower near his house. But yet with all of this, this dummy is still trying to pretend that he just doesn't remember any of it. Oh, and you're not gonna believe this, but that night when he went to Walmart to buy the shovel, he ran into one of his neighbors. And I am not making this up. I could not make this up. He asked this neighbor how to get away with murder. And of course, the neighbor's thinking, this is a joke. I'm gonna joke back. So he said, probably by burning it. I don't know. At the end of the day, I don't know what Charles was thinking asking a neighbor that. Maybe the whole time he knew, this is so bad. I am not going to get away with this. Might as well joke around because I don't. I don't know what he was thinking. He really thought denying all of this, saying he didn't remember was going to work. There's so much evidence here. Come on, man. We. We.

[Investigator 2]

We've laid it out for you, okay?

[Charles Bryant]

It's there.

[Investigator 2]

We're over there at your house, okay?

[Charles Bryant]

You.

[Investigator 2]

We have video of you with this girl. You're at the bar, her cell phone goes to your house. You're walking around Walmart at 4 o' clock in the morning buying a shovel. She's found dead in a pool that came from your backyard.

[Kendall Rae]

Okay?

[Investigator 2]

You can't tell me. You can't tell me you don't remember.

[Charles Bryant]

I don't know. Why?

[Investigator 2]

Come on, man.

[Kendall Rae]

I'm giving you that.

[Investigator 2]

You were there. Obviously you did all these things. And there is no way in the world that a man can travel all the way from Hazlitt to Grapevine, from Denton to Hazlett to Grapevine, and not remember. Stand up and man up and tell us what. What you did. Talk to me. Tell me.

[Charles Bryant]

The past hour and a half, I've been racking my brain.

[Investigator 2]

There's no way, man. There's no way in the world that you do not remember this. There's no way.

[Charles Bryant]

Woke up. I Don't even remember taking her home. I thought I was home.

[Investigator 2]

She went to your house?

[Kendall Rae]

Yeah.

[Charles Bryant]

I don't remember taking her to my place.

[Kendall Rae]

I don't.

[Charles Bryant]

I thought I went home by myself.

[Investigator 2]

And you killed her. You killed her. And then you didn't just leave her there. You drove her to Grapevine. Tell me you don't remember that. Putting her in the car. Come on.

[Kendall Rae]

God. Unbelievable. And the way he's just nervously laughing, trying to act so casual. It's so sick. As you can hear, this guy is absolutely just going in on Charles, listing out all of the things that he did, how there's just no way in hell that he doesn't remember this. Him trying to say that he is too drunk to remember just made no sense. And they just kept hammering it into him that they knew that he was lying.

[Investigator 2]

And I can see it in you. I can see in you that you want to stand up and you want to take.

[Charles Bryant]

I'm taking credit for it. I don't. I can't. I don't know how it happened. I don't. I don't know why we end up in Grapevine. I don't know how I wake up and, like, not remember this.

[Investigator 2]

Because you come to Grapevine. You go to the park.

[Charles Bryant]

I just thought I go to a place that I go.

[Kendall Rae]

Oh, my God. It makes no sense to me.

[Investigator 2]

Why would you leave her purse in your trash can at your house?

[Charles Bryant]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't get it.

[Investigator 2]

Why would you leave zip ties from your car. Car with her hair in it? It's your house.

[Charles Bryant]

I don't know.

[Investigator 2]

But, see, you laugh, and this is because it's blowing.

[Charles Bryant]

It's not laughing matter. It's literally, you're in my face. I have nothing to do right now.

[Investigator 2]

It's like, I'm not in your face.

[Kendall Rae]

And as you can tell, the investigators are trying to use this whole buddy, buddy act with him. Like, we're friends, man. It's cool. Like, just fess up. I can tell so badly that you want to stand up and be a man right now and tell the truth. Like. Like they're playing hardball, but at the same time, they want to make him feel comfortable enough to just confess and make this easier for everybody involved. And as much as they're trying to do that, there is someone who is particularly known for being exceptionally good at doing this, and that is Texas Ranger Jim Holland. And this is when he was brought in. And he is known specifically for his ability to get killers to confess, even serial Killers. In fact, they call him the serial killer whisperer. And that is really when there was a big shift because he really cranks up the. We're friends, buddy, buddy. We're comfortable. We're bonding to a whole new level. And it works so well on this dumb. And he gets a confession fast. Charles ends up saying that he had to have done it because that's what the evidence says. But he says he still doesn't remember what happened. So I guess in a way it's sort of a half confession, if you will. But take a listen.

[Texas Ranger Jim Holland]

Tell me what's going on today.

[Investigator 1]

Why.

[Texas Ranger Jim Holland]

Why are you wearing the Village People outfit? Tuesday, it's like they didn't have anything else for you to wear.

[Charles Bryant]

That's it. I was wearing my shorts and I'm like, oh, I gotta change the list, but I don't mind. Yeah, it's crazy because I really don't remember meeting this girl. It's like I met her at a public house.

[Kendall Rae]

A public house?

[Charles Bryant]

Yeah, it's a bar in Denver.

[Kendall Rae]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Charles Bryant]

So he left there and I thought we kind of parted ways, but we were at another bar drinking, and apparently she was with me. Came back to my place and I don't remember driving home with her, which is insane. But, yeah, turns out it was me.

[Kendall Rae]

And you hear that? Turns out it was me. Oh, I hate him.

[Charles Bryant]

It's just nuts. Like, I don't even know this girl. It's like I don't remember her name. And it's just. It's blowing my mind because it's so out of character for me. It's like, I'm not an angry guy. I'm not aggressive. It's. It's. I don't know. I've been trying to think over it last night and.

[Kendall Rae]

Dude, the nerve of this guy trying to paint himself. Like this is completely out of character for him. No, it's not. No, it's not. You had this in you. You were born this way.

[Charles Bryant]

I just don't remember leaving with her. It's like. But I'm taking. It's like all evidence is on me. It's like I'm just. I can't remember doing it. But it's me. It's totally me. There's no doubt about it. But I just want to go forward with it. I don't know where I'm gonna go. It's jail. I'm fine with that. One of the detectives yesterday was saying that Texas has a death penalty. I'm like, alright, great. I'm gonna die in jail. But I can't fight it. It's obviously me. I just hate doing anything.

[Kendall Rae]

So yeah, he can't just be a man and fully confess and own up to what he did to poor Jackie. Instead he wants to pretend like, oh, I'm the victim. I just did this, I guess, and I don't remember any of it. Now I'm going to die in jail or maybe get the death penalty. Poor me.

This episode of True Crime with Kendall Rae is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses. Monetary magicians. These are all things that people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates.

Potential savings will vary.

Not available in all states or situations.

[Advertisement Voice]

I bet you've probably been to the doctor's office in the past few months. I bet you had to hand over personal info like your insurance, your id, maybe even your Social Security number. And I bet you weren't thinking about how your doctor is just one of many places that has your personal information. If any one of them isn't careful, it's a good bet they could accidentally expose your details to hackers and identity theft, putting you at risk. Fortunately, Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back with plans covering up to $3 million for stolen funds and expenses. Don't take chances with your personal info. Help protect it even when it's out of your hands. Save up to 40% your first year with promo code iHEART. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iHEART or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Off terms apply.

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[Kendall Rae]

Buying a car in Carvana was so easy. I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options, all within my budget. That's cool that financing through Carvana was so easy.

[Advertisement Voice]

Financed, done.

[Kendall Rae]

And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Si. Nice. Financed, right?

[Jackie Vandegrift]

That's what they said.

[Kendall Rae]

You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on car finance financing, subject to.

[Advertisement Voice]

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[Kendall Rae]

But Jim is really good at what he does. He wants a better confession than that. So he continues trying to establish more of a connection with Charles almost by sort of helping him to make excuses for what happened. Sort of putting these words in his mouth so he'll just come out and admit to being fully conscious during the entire thing, remembering it all. And he's saying things like, hey, this could have happened in a moment of psychosis, or this may have been self defense things to make Charles feel comfortable confiding more of the details.

[Texas Ranger Jim Holland]

How do we know that you weren't defending yourself and that you didn't freak out? I mean, there's a bunch of things out there we don't know, but there could be some legitimacy in that. You know, you know, the sexual stuff in the text, I mean, maybe she came on to you too strong. Maybe she, maybe, you know, she wasn't a 10, you didn't want to be with her. Maybe, you know, she got mad.

[Kendall Rae]

He is so great at his job, his ability to even transform into a douche like him to try to get on his level, to say things like, maybe she wasn't a 10. Something like that. That it's gonna make Charles feel like he's one of the boys, he's one of the bros, you know, he's so good. I'm mad.

[Texas Ranger Jim Holland]

Maybe she's giving you all the signals and, and then cut you off. I mean, there could be all kinds of different things going on here, right?

[Kendall Rae]

I mean, chicks, chicks, man, chicks. He's good. All the law enforcement in this case were just excellent. And for a little while longer, Charles keeps up the same song and dance of, you know, I, it has to have been me. But I don't remember the same bullshit. So finally, Jim walks him through a memory exercise to help him remember, help Jog that memory a little bit and suddenly it just, it works, it starts coming back to him. He said that he remembered offering her a ride home and eventually claimed that the two of them had consensual but kinky sex, which is what he said led to her death. Charles said that she wanted to be choked up with a zip tie and something happened. And of course, in that moment, he has to blame her for her own death. And as far as why he then didn't do anything to save her after he noticed she wasn't moving, all he says is that he freaked out. And this is very disturbing. But he even described how he dismembered her, put her into trash bags and set her on fire to try and destroy evidence. So at that point, Jim continues with the act and suggests that maybe the motive could have been about Caitlyn. But Charles denied that. And like I said in the beginning, that's one of the most frustrating parts of this case is there is no super clear motive. Although that is what most people believe to be true, that the motive really is about Caitlyn. Maybe he saw this young pretty girl who in a dark bar somewhat resembled his ex, and after a few drinks he managed to get her into his car and at some point a struggle ensued that resulted in her death. Or maybe he was taking out anger on her and you guys heard the evidence. I don't know what else to believe. I think that's the closest thing to a motive we're gonna get. I think that's the closest thing that makes sense. But I guess we'll never truly know why Charles did this to Jackie. But anyways, after hours of interrogation, Charles was officially charged with her murder and they held him on a one million dollar bond this time. Now, this news was a major shock to so many people, including Jackie's loved ones. Of course, they just could not understand how this happened or who could have done this to Jackie. But this also seemed to surprise some of the people who knew Charles, some people that were friends with him or had come in contact with him there. This one woman named Christie who had actually met him through a dating app back in 2015. And I saw an interview where she explained that there wasn't really a connection between the two of them, but she did continue to stay friends with him. And shocker alert, I guess he had come across super strong and she wasn't feeling the same way. But apparently he told her that he loved her after she had ended things, which really surprised her because they had never even kissed, which sounds Right on Paris for Charles. But anyways, she learned about what happened, and she thought back to a conversation that they had had where he told her that he was abused as a kid, which she said in her mind, kind of made his attachment style make a little bit more sense. Of course, I don't think she's making excuses for him in any way, but he clearly craved female attachment and had horrible coping skills when things didn't work out or he was rejected. But when she learned that he had killed a girl, that was really surprising to her because she actually felt like he was harmless. Little did she know, though, he was the complete opposite of that. And as for Caitlin, she was also pretty shocked by the news. I mean, she knew that he was insane, but murder was next level. She did not think he was actually capable of killing somebody. And to make matters even crazier, when she went on Facebook to look up Jackie, she realized that they were already friends. She had gotten a friend request from her on September 17th, which, if you haven't already done the math here, that's three days after the murder. Meaning Charles had used Jackie's phone after he killed her to friend Caitlyn himself. Which makes sense because if you remember, he was clearly tweeting from her account too. And what just breaks my heart here is that Caitlyn feels guilty for what happened. She has actually said that she wishes this happened to her and not Jackie, and that's not something anyone should feel. Charles is the only person responsible for this horrific murder and nobody else. And the fact that she has to have those feelings, which I don't blame her for having feelings like that, I think it's only natural. I hope with time, she's been able to understand that she had no fault in this and that she never could have seen this coming, and that she did everything right in the position that she was in. Just. It's heartbreaking thinking that she has to live with feelings like that. And that's why I said at the beginning that she's a victim in all of this, too. Not just from what she went through personally with Charles and the stalking, but also from this murder. I mean, it's had a massive effect on her. And how could it not? Of course, the emotional impact of Jackie's death has hit her really, really hard, taken a giant toll on her, and it's just so unfair. And my heart truly goes out to her and everyone else who knew and loved Jackie. It just. It makes no sense. I think Charles is truly evil. Now, Jackie's loved ones did Hold a vigil for her. Shortly after all this, and nearly 100 people gathered to honor and celebrate her life. Her parents thanked law enforcement for their support and professionalism. And her mom specifically talked about her daughter's multiple hair colors over the years as an expression of her creativity. Her best friend Jackie, also spoke, and she told stories of their friendship and shared how they were the Jackies and how Jackie Vandegrift had always been there for her, no matter what. And ultimately, as you can imagine, everyone was just determined to see justice for Jackie. So Charles's trial began in April of 2018, and despite having made a confession, confession of sorts, I guess, he still, of course, big shocker here, pleaded not guilty. And his argument was that she died while they had kinky sex. And if he was guilty of anything, it would only be tampering with evidence. And his defense attorney, from the interviews I've seen of this woman, she pisses me off. I know it's her job, but the smugness. I mean, she just has to know damn well that he did it. There's so much evidence. But she fully, I guess, commits to the act that she believes he's an innocent man and will do anything to defend him. Again, I know it's her job. I just sometimes have such trouble with certain defense attorneys. I know they're needed. I know, but how can you. How can you represent something. Someone like him. Something like him, really. He's really a thing. But how can you sit there and lie on his behalf? I'll never understand it. I could never do it. It. But, yeah. She tried to argue that there was no direct evidence tying him to her murder, Although the circumstantial evidence is obviously very hard to ignore, because not only was Charles the last person to be seen with her, but her hair and blood were found on several of the items retrieved from his car and home. Not to mention the fact that her phone last pinged near his house, and the surveillance footage placed him buying a shovel and gasoline hours before her burnt remains were found in a park. And don't forget, this was a park that he was known to go to. And investigators found photos from his Facebook page, which he had posted a few days before Jackie's murder that showed that he went for a run at Grapevine Lake. And the path that he was on during that run would have taken him right by the area where Jackie's remains were later left. God, Charles is just such a moron. It's insane. And speaking of his Facebook, he also posted some super, super weird Things on the night that he met Jackie, including A post at 11:56pm on September 13 that read, Teach you tricks that will blow your mind. Which I don't know if that's really, like, freak or creepy, but it's just, like, cringy. He's just so weird. And then there was Another post on September 15 that read, Full moon. Let's see what trouble I can get into. So, yeah, the prosecution had a pretty damn solid argument here, but what they didn't necessarily have was a motive. I mean, it's believed that Jackie's death was somehow related to the stalking of Caitlyn. But during trial, the judge ended up ruling against Caitlyn being allowed to testify. She was brought in one of the days and gave her testimony without the jury present, but the judge ended up ruling that it couldn't be used, which is so, so frustrating and honestly just really traumatizing for her because she had to face Charles again. She was actually asked to point him out in the courtroom to tell them what he was wearing. So she had to look at him. And she said after she gave her testimony, she left the courtroom in tears. And to have to do all of that, to have to look at him and him look back at her, all of that relive everything, just for the judge to rule against her testimony being used had to have been devastating. And it did make it slightly harder for prosecutors. But again, this case is pretty rock solid. I mean, they had a pretty solid argument as to why the defense's argument was just bullshit. Plus, it's important to note that there was no evidence suggesting that Jackie had intercourse before she was killed. So for their whole argument to be about how she died during sex didn't really hold up, did it? And luckily, the jury ultimately agreed. After a little over two hours of deliberation, they found Charles guilty of murder and tampering with evidence. Sentence. Now, as for his sentencing, there is some disappointment there, unfortunately. He was sentenced to life in prison, thankfully, but he unfortunately has the possibility of parole in 30 years. With good behavior, there's a chance that he will walk free one day. Now, he did get an additional 20 years for tampering with evidence, but that doesn't really do much because that is to be served concurrently. And for Caitlyn, the thought of that is terrifying. It's just torture. She feels like she will forever have to look over her shoulder because of what she knows her ex is capable of doing and because of the way that he stalked her. Leading up to this, and understandably, in My opinion, she honestly wished that he got the death penalty, but because he only committed one felony, the death penalty was off the table. So, I mean, yes, of course people were happy and relieved that justice was served here, that he didn't get away with this, but. But I get why they don't feel that life with the possibility of parole is enough. And I'm pretty sure in her shoes, I would feel the same way. What he did to Jackie after barely knowing her, spending a couple hours with her is unfathomably sick. He not only took her life, but the steps that he took afterwards, the dismembering, the burning. Someone like that does not ever deserve to see the light of day, if you ask me, and I'm sure most of you will agree. Whether or not you believe he should get the death penalty, it's up for debate. And, you know, that's one I've always struggled with. So I can't say for sure, but can't imagine how Caitlyn feels. I mean, the. The thoughts that she must have had and must still have thinking about how it could have been her. It's horrible. It's just horrendous. And if this sicko cannot get any worse, he was also apparently found guilty of possession of csam, or child sexual abuse material. Material. But I wasn't able to find out much about when these charges came to be or anything about them. But from what I can tell, though, it sounds like they found that material on his phone while they were searching it in connection with Jackie's death. So, yeah, with that, that's really my final straw. I feel very confident in saying that this monster should never be set free, and I hope he isn't. I did want to leave you with one positive moment that happened after trial that I just thought was touching and thought you guys might agree. So. So the whole time since Jackie's death, Caitlin's mom really wanted to reach out to her family, but just wasn't quite sure how it would be received. But after the trial, Jackie's grandma actually went up to Caitlyn and told her that she had been super worried about her over the past two years. And Kailyn's mom said that this was just really emotional for her because, you know, she was technically the person who lost their loved one, their granddaughter, in such a horrific way, yet it was her daughter that this woman was concerned about. And I think that really just speaks to the empathy that she had for Caitlin and how their family feels and how no one blames her for what happened. And I really hope that that moment helped Caitlin a lot. Jackie's whole family honestly just seems incredible and they've done some really great things in her honor. So I want to take some time to tell you about that. So they have established an endowment at Texas Woman's University which will help fund an internship through TWU's Health and well Being initiative. This internship will be in Jackie's and will be set aside for a food and nutrition science major. They've also encouraged people to make donations to Operation Kindness, which is a no kill animal shelter in Texas. And that's because Jackie was a huge animal person and a lifelong vegetarian and saving animals was really, really important to her. Jackie's dad has said that it's been really difficult as time has gone on and he'll never forget the last time that he saw her. He was watching football and she came into the room and they chatted for a bit and he said that he wishes he told her goodbye because he never ended up getting the chance. He did say it brings him comfort though that she is buried close to their house so that he has a place that he can go visit her easily. Jackie was a caring, loving and compassionate young woman who should have had decades longer of spreading her joy in the world. And I just hope in some way her loved ones continue to feel that and that others continue to feel that. And I think with the things that they have done in her own, they will. That is going to be it for me today, guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show, you can find it on my YouTube channel which will be linked or you can just search Kendall Ray. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then, stay safe out there.

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