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True Crime with Kendall Rae
She Vanished Days After Being Assaulted… Who Murdered Ebby Steppach?
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- [00:01]
Kendall Ray
There's a time and a place for a filet of fish, but breakfast is for sausage biscuits.
- [00:11]
Unknown Advertiser
McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [00:15]
Kendall Ray
Possibility means you have a chance. Passion opens the door to all possibilities. When I feel like anything's possible, I feel kind of giddy. I want to be an astronaut, an artist, an actress to visit another country. All I need is a backpack and a pair of shoes, and I'll find a way that I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. I've never felt like more things are possible than right now.
- [00:38]
Unknown Advertiser
In the right shoes, anything's possible.
- [00:40]
Kendall Ray
Dsw, countless shoes at bragworthy prices. Imagine the possibilities. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of True Primary Kennel. Ray, thank you so much for joining me today. I appreciate. Appreciate you being here. And if you're new to the show, welcome. Happy to have you here as well. Well, guys, today, the case I'm gonna be telling you about is pretty difficult to put into words. We're gonna be talking about the murder of Ebi Stepik. And let me just say now that this case is just as sad as it is frustrating and just perplexing in every way. And it's also very, very complicated. The road that you and I are about to go down has a lot of twists and turns and some side roads that we got to stop at as well. So I suggest you buckle up for this one, because it's just a lot. I want to start this episode a little different than I normally do, and that's by sharing some of the victim's own words with you. Her mom once came across one of her old diaries, and when I saw the entry that was in there, I just. I don't know, it felt really right to cover her story. And it said, I want people to know my story even after I die. Which just gives me the chills in hindsight, knowing what we know now. And I'd really like for you to sort of keep that quote in the back of your mind as we're going through the events of this case, because just by listening to this episode, you are making her goal a reality. We are talking about her story, even though I'm sure it's not the story she imagined it would be. I just hate that I'm sitting here today telling her story under these circumstances. But I do feel honored that I get to tell Ebby's story, and I hope it is helpful to her loved ones as they are still trying to get answers and to get justice for Ebby. Now, Ebby Jane Stepik was born on March 31, 1997 in Little Rock, Arkansas to her parents, Lori and Peter Stepik. And she grew up in the Chanel Valley area of West Little Rock with an older brother Trevor, and a younger sister named Harris. Now, Ebby has a very unique name. I don't know if I've ever met another Ebby, and I just love the name. So I wanted to know, you know, where her mom came up with this name or her parents. And it was her mom. Her mom Lori said that she got her unique name from a friend at church who named her daughter Evie. And she liked it so much that she decided to put her own spin on it and landed on the name Abby. And her family also used the nicknames Ebster and Eb Jane, which I think are just so cute. Now, when Abby was in first grade, her parents did end up getting a divorce, which, you know, sucks most of the time. However, in her case, her parents luckily did remain very committed parents who continued to both be a strong influence on her. For example, they were both hairdressers, which inspired Ebby to be interested in cosmetology from a very young age. So. So throughout life, she constantly experimented with different hairstyles and different makeup techniques, and she dreamed of going to cosmetology school to work in that field one day. She also did have some interest in possibly getting into real estate one day, and I think her bubbly and friendly personality would have made her very successful at that as well. But going back to her family for a moment, Lori, her mother, did end up getting remarried to a man named Michael Jernigan. Now, what's great about Michael is him and Abby seem to get along very well, which, you know, sometimes having a new step parent can be very difficult. And I'm not sure how old Abby was when they got married, but by all accounts, it seems like things between them were great. And honestly, from what I've learned about Abby, it seems like she just got along with everybody. She was very easygoing. People describe her as sweet, kind, empathetic, very, very loyal. And here's a good example of that. I love this story, but growing up, she attended the Lisa Academy. And during her junior year, this classmate of hers, Caleb Boyd, was falsely accused of bringing a gun to school, and he actually went to prison over it. And while many people were quick to just write Caleb off, Abby put in the effort to clear his name. She ended up rallying her fellow students to really get behind him and actually organize this letter writing campaign to advocate for Him. And he was eventually released. And he later said that she had a massive hand in this and that everyone sort of looked over him and, you know, discounted him, dismissed him, except for her, his mom. I'm sure she was just blown away by Ebby's kindness. And she said that, you know, it really showed what a big heart Abby had and that Caleb's whole family just thought really highly of her. But beyond just being kind and having such an amazing personality, Abby also seemed very smart too. She was interested in language, languages, and actually studied Spanish, Turkish. And her grandmother on her dad's side taught her a little bit of Hebrew as well. And Abby loved her grandparents. She had a good relationship with her grandparents on both sides. I read that whenever her family would take trips to the beach, she would spend hours pacing the sand to find seashells that she would give to her grandparents as gifts. She seemed like such a sweet kid who really grew up to be a pretty cool person. And not to mention, Abby was also very funny. I learned that she really rarely left a room without making somebody laugh. And I also learned that she loved the color Purple. But anyway, that takes us to the summer of 2015, when Ebby's personality began to change a little bit and she was gaining some more independence. At this time she had gotten a job at Playtime Pizza and then at Foot locker in the McCain Mall in North Little Rock. And her mom has said that her co workers at Foot Locker were a bad influence and she just, you know, didn't approve of Ebby spending time with them. She had also just gotten a 2003 Volkswagen Pacific. Saw it with the help of her dad. And of course she was thrilled about that. Like every young person, when you get your first car or you get your license, you know that feeling driving around, you feel so grown up, so independent, blasting your music. And one of her favorite songs to blast was Toxic by Britney Spears. She's a girl after my own heart. But yeah, you know, she felt like this car really gave her a whole new sense of freedom because now she could go wherever she wanted, whenever she wanted. And after discovering this new freedom, like a typical teenager, she did not want to listen to her parents rules. And her parents said that this is when her behavior and attitude really started to shift. Around the time that she got her car, she started fighting with them more. Staying out late at night, lying about where she was, and spending time with a new group of friends that her family just didn't trust. She was also experimenting with drugs and alcohol and overall had A pretty significant change in her identity, you could say. And it was during this time that Ebby informed them that she would be transferring schools and attending Little Rock Central High School for the rest of her senior year. Which side note, if that school sounds familiar, it's because that's the same school where the Little Rock Nine students integrated during the civil rights movement. But anyway, that's where Abby told Lori and Michael that she would attend. And since she's 18 at this point, there wasn't much that they could do about it. But one thing they could try to do was try to change her behavior. And to do that, Lori gave her a firm ultimatum. And I think this is a pretty common ultimatum that you probably either heard of before or you yourself experienced or you know, someone has done this with their kids. I mean, it gets to a point where parents don't know what else to do. And so they basically told her, while Lori told her that she either follows the rules and lives with them or don't follow them and leave. And she chose to leave. And so after that, she spent her time bouncing around to different places, staying with her dad a bit, her friends, her grandparents, and her older brother Trevor. But I do want to be clear here. During this time, she didn't, like, entirely cut off contact with Lori and Michael. I mean, there's no other way to say it. Their relationship was definitely rocky, especially with Lori. But she trusted Michael. And as you'll hear me explain more later, she knew at the end of the day she could turn to him if she needed anything. So eventually, they start receiving calls from the school about Abby being frequently absent. But since she was a legitimate adult at this point, again, there wasn't that much that they could do about it. And it does seem like she was starting to feel the strain of this lifestyle, like, didn't know if it was worth continuing this way. Laurie says that Abby just straight out told her brother that she was tired of living that way and expressed interest in getting her GED and attending cosmetology school like she originally wanted to do. So Trevor and Michael started to formulate a plan for the two of them to have a conversation with her about how to get her life back on track. But unfortunately, they never got the chance to do that. Which brings us to the week of October 25, 2015, when Ebby disappeared. During that week, Abby stayed at the family home of one of her good friends named Danielle. And she often stayed there and really considered her house a safe place for her. And she first Snapchatted her on the 20th, asking if she could spend the night. And like usual, Danielle said, of course, that's fine. On Wednesday, October 21, Danielle had a doctor's appointment in the morning. And so Ebby offered to give her a ride to the Lisa Academy, where Danielle still attended before she got herself to class at Central High. But the appointment was actually running late, so she texted Ebby to just go ahead and go to school, but she responded saying that she didn't feel like going because of all the drama that was going on. Now, to this day, Danielle has no idea what Abby meant when she said drama. And yeah, there's been no explanation of that. I'm sure if she could go back in time and press a little more, she definitely would have. But she had no idea what was about to happen and she has no idea if that drama has any role in what was about to happen. And there are other things that are unclear at this point. Like we know that she skipped school on Tuesday and Wednesday, but we don't know if she went to school on Thursday and Friday. And you would think we would have more information about that, that that would be cleared up by now. But it doesn't seem that it ever was cleared up to me. There is no better feeling than getting into bed at night with freshly shaved legs and the feeling of them being moisturized and just rubbing together in my clean sheets. I just live for it, especially in the summer when I'm constantly wearing shorts, I'm constantly at the pool with my daughter, and I just feel more confident if I have shaved smooth legs. And so today I wanted to tell you about Flamingo. From the bath to the beach, Flamingo keeps you smooth no matter the season. They offer shaving, hair removal and body care products built with your body in mind. 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And some of that conflicts with what Abby has told people. So it's all a little bit confusing. But before I do go any further, I definitely need to issue a trigger warning here for sexual assault. This is very disturbing, but some reports I've seen have claimed that it was a pretty big party and that at some point Ebby was gang raped by four boys who taped it. And we have a lot more to talk about when it comes to that. But I wanted to explain that there are text messages that she had sent after the party which give us a little bit more clarity of what happened. And first off, it seems like it may have been a very small house party. Like I'm talking just her and four other male students. So I don't even know if you could call that a party. And she later ended up texting a friend that one of those boys sexually assaulted her and that he may have recorded the act. And as for the three other guys, she says they watched it happen. Now, to be very clear, and I'm sure I don't even need to say this, I know my audience. I know you guys already are with me on this, but even if they didn't take place in the physical act, and if this is really how it went down, they are very much so responsible and guilty of assaults, in my opinion, guilty of rape. And again, a lot of this is really confusing. We don't have the specifics ironed out. We don't know exactly what happened, but it seemed like Ebby. Of course, whatever happened, she was very impacted by it. And after the assault happened, she went over to her boyfriend Eric's house. And I haven't introduced him. Yes, Abby did have a boyfriend, but the two of them were in a rough patch at the time, or I guess, sort of on a break. But he still very much loved and cared about her, always wanted to be there for her. So it makes sense that she would turn to him right after this very traumatic event. And while she was there, she told him that she was assaulted at the party and also told him that she just didn't want to talk about it, which he totally respected her boundaries. He didn't push for information. He just wanted to be there for her, comfort her, and that's it. Now, I think most people understand that if someone says, I don't, I just went through this horrific event. I don't want to talk about it right now. Anyone that's actually supportive would respect that and give you space. And I'm sure he was hoping she would open up about it and he could be there for her more later on. So before you judge him for that, keep in mind that he had no idea this was going to be the last time he would ever see Abby. I'm sure he thought that she would open up about everything when she was ready, and he would learn more information and figure out if there was anything else he needed to do to help her, but he was never given that opportunity. And I also want to explain that Lori has stated that she totally trusts Eric, that she believes he truly did love her daughter. And of course, I don't know Eric myself, but from the interviews I've seen with him, specifically on the Dr. Phil show, which Dr. Phil, obviously I don't like him, but the interview was really interesting, and I really got a sense that he truly cared for her, really wants to help, and has been devastated by everything that has happened. I just wanted to clear that up because obviously we've talked about how Abby was spending time with people that her parents didn't approve of that they thought were sketchy, and he is not one of those people. But anyway, that night that he spent with her was just focused on making sure she was okay, comforting her and giving her a safe place to be. She slept in his sister's bed that night, and when she woke up, she still didn't want to talk about it. So she left and went to her brother Trevor's house and asked if she could stay there. But he was actually attending a wedding that day and didn't want Abby to be home alone. So he called their mom, Lori, and asked if she could stay there for the night, but Lori refused. Then after that she went to the home of her maternal grandparents, Bill and Peggy Holman, where she spent the day relaxing in their spare bedroom and actually watching spongebob squarepants, which was one of her favorite shows. It's also one of my favorite shows, I'm sure for many of you as well. But while she's there, she's obviously trying to process what happened to her. And she ends up texting one of her good friends, Gage, about what had happened the night before. And according to Gage, she texted him to say, I was hanging with some dudes last night and we smoked and I had sex with one of them and he fucking recorded me, dude, like when I wasn't looking. Then after that she ended up texting him saying that she was going to take her own life, which we don't know if she genuinely meant that or if she was being hyperbolic, but either way, she was clearly in distress, as anyone, anyone would after going through what she did the night before. And listen to this. It was later discovered that at 5:52pm she searched I was recorded without my consent. And at 5:55pm, so just a couple minutes later, she searched how to file a police report. So between the messages that she's sending to Gage and those Google searches, it's telling us quite a bit, isn't it? And then that evening she texts her stepdad Michael, about what happened at the party. And she asked him if he would go to the police department with her to file a report. And of course he agreed. But he was out to dinner with Lori and Abby begged him not to tell her what was happening. So the plan was that he would just drop off Lori after they were done and then head over to the grandparents house. And he specifically told her just to stay there, that he would meet her over there and then they would go file the report. But she didn't end up doing that. Instead, Abby and her grandparents had dinner that night and then they went out for froyo at a local TCBY. And after that they returned to their home around 8pm and Abby told them that she was leaving to meet with Michael. But before she left, she told them that she would return later that night and ask them to keep their door unlocked so that she could get in and to this day we don't know if Abby was lying to them about where she was going or if she was really trying to find Michael. And something else happened and the truth is, we don't even know where she was that entire night. Michael tried calling her, leaving her voicemails and texting, telling her that he was heading over there, but he didn't get any response, which he thought was really strange. And he even called the grandparents home and they informed him that she had left to go look for him. So he thought maybe she just already went to the police station without me and I'll meet her there. But he went there to check and she wasn't there. Now, like I said earlier, Ebby was constantly bouncing from place to place. She was crashing wherever she could. So not seeing her that night didn't really seem to concern anyone too too much. But their worries definitely started to grow the next day when no one had heard from her. She actually had plans that day to go to this church event with Danielle, but she never showed up or even told Danielle that she wasn't going, which was very unlike her. Trevor and Harris kept trying to contact her throughout the day but didn't get a response. Not to mention she always had her phone on her, so it was really abnormal for her to just be ignoring everyone for this long. And finally around 5:30pm, they did hear from her, but it was unsettling to say the least. Trevor had tried calling her again, but there was no answer. However, shortly after that, Eddie called him back, but right away she wasn't making any sense. She told him that she was in her car outside of his house. So when they hung up, he went outside, but he didn't see her anywhere. So he ends up calling her back and asked her where she was, but she said she didn't know. And he said that she sounded panicked, she sounded confused and disoriented, but it was beyond how someone would act if they were just high off of weed or drunk. She told him that she was in her car, but she didn't know where she was or who she was with. And she just kept repeating, I'm fucked up, I'm fucked up. So Trevor is immediately in distress. He knows something is very, very wrong here, something is wrong with Abby and this whole situation. So he tells her to hang up and turn on her phone's location sharing so that her family could track her down. And she seemed to understand what he was telling her to do. So he got off the phone with her and he immediately called 91 1. But they told him there was nothing they could do. And let me tell you, that is just setting the tone for the police right off the bat for the rest of this case. I choose Function because it's the only health platform that gives you access to the kind of data that most people never get to see and insights that actually take action inside function. You can test over 160 biomarkers, you guys, everything from heart to hormones to toxins, inflammation and stress. You can also access multi region MRI and CT scans, all tracked in one secure place. Over time, it's a near 360 view to see what's happening inside your body. 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Learn more and join using my link the first 1000 get $100 credit towards their membership. Just visit functionhealth.com TCKR or use code TCKR100 at signup to own your health. But anyway, poor Trevor is freaking out. He runs over to Lori and Michael's for help. And Lori said he came in panicking and told Michael to track Ebby's phone. But unfortunately it seemed that she never actually turned on her location so of course they couldn't track her. So then Lori placed another 911 call and when she told them what was happening, they dismissed it and told her that they had to wait 12 hours to report her missing. And I know we have this conversation all the time we see happen all the time. Although I will say it's gotten a lot better. This was 2015, but I'm just baffled that police stations ever told families this. I mean, in the early early days, 60s, 70s, it was a different world. I understand that. But by 2015, that they were still telling families this just straight up lie. It is a lie. And you know what? I still hear of people that are told this to this day, that you have to wait a certain amount of time to report your loved one missing. That is not true. Remember that. Tell everyone you know that is bullshit. And if any law enforcement officer tries to tell you that they're, they're lying. And I can't imagine what that would feel like, especially if you didn't know that that was, you know, you're worried about the well being of your loved one. And the police basically tells you just wait a little longer, we'll see what happens. But yeah, always keep that in mind. Spread that to everyone. You know, that is not a law. You can file a missing person's report the moment that you need to, no questions asked. And in this case, it especially doesn't make sense because even if they had just assumed that Abby was a runaway based on her phone call with Trevor, she clearly, based on that phone call, needed some assistance at the very least. Now, apparently they did tell Lori that they would put out an all points bulletin on her 2003 Volkswagen Passat, but I'm not entirely sure that they did based on what would happen later. However, the police, being extremely unhelpful, did not stop her family from taking this seriously. So Trevor ends up calling Eric, her boyfriend, or you know, the one that she was in sort of a break, rough spot with. But he wanted to see if Eric knew anything. I mean, he had just spent time with her, but he didn't. And so he immediately called Abby and she actually did answer. And he would later say that she didn't seem okay and that she sounded scared. But the call didn't last long because she ended up hanging up on him, making this the last time that she, anyone would hear from her. Her family kept checking in with her friends, and while no one had heard of them, so her family continued on doing whatever they could, calling friends, checking in with them, seeing if anyone had heard from her. But no one had. And many of them ended up joining in on their search. If you remember, Daniel had that church event going on and she was there. And when Abby's sister called her, she immediately left and started driving around looking for her. And remember Kayla Boyd, the one who was falsely accused of having the gun at school and went to prison? Abby helped him get released. His family learned that she was missing and they immediately dropped everything and went out and searched. She clearly had made such a huge impact on people that so many of her friends and community members Immediately went out looking for any trace of Abby when they heard that she could potentially be in danger. Her family also printed out pictures of her and passed out flyers. But none of this led to finding anything. And keep in mind, everything that I just talked about Happened in the first 12 hours. And the minute that 12 hour mark passed, because Lori thought she had to wait that long, because that's what the police told her, they, you know, went ahead and called the police department back. So Ebby was officially reported as missing on Monday, October 26, 2015. But unfortunately, that did not mean the little rock police department took this seriously. On Tuesday, law enforcement released her license plate number and a photo taken on a surveillance camera of Ebby's car driving near Cantrell road and chanel parkway in west little rock. And they asked the public to be on the look out for Eddie driving it. But then the following day, they announced that there was no immediate threat to the public and that she was most likely missing because she wanted to be. Yes, you heard that right, you guys. And they were literally calling her a, quote, likely runaway. And we have no idea what this theory was based on. And saying something like this to the public is so unprofessional, so irresponsible, and could possibly cause some people to not take her family's search efforts that seriously or the situation as a whole seriously. And so, by this point, Abby's family and friends took matters into their own hands by continuing to pass out flyers, Contacting anyone that they could think of, driving around, and looking for anything that might point them in the right direction. And of course, they were scouring her social media accounts since she was super, super active online. And her last instagram post was on October 24, and it was a photo of her in her car with a caption that read, I know what you did. But of course, they had no idea what she meant by that, and they just continued to search. And even with all of this searching, there was still no sign of Ebby or her car until Friday, October 30th. That day, police responded to reports of an abandoned vehicle at Shalomont park. Now, this park is a small private park that's in a cul de sac on Shalomont drive, which is a nice neighborhood, and it's only about three miles from Lori's home and just about a half a mile from the parkway where Abby's car was caught on surveillance. It turns out they had received multiple calls throughout the week from the park's security guard, and his name is Guy Hooper. But they didn't come out until a local neighbor called them about it later in the week. And even when they ran the VIN number, they didn't make the connection at first. So they called her dad, Peter, to tell him that he needed to retrieve his car. And so he was the one who informed them him that his daughter was missing, and that was the car that she drove. And for some reason, when the patrol officer looked up the car, it wasn't linked to a missing person. Which of course makes zero sense, especially because Lori was told by Little Rock PD that they put out an all points bulletin. And not only that, you guys, they never even told Lori directly about the car being found. She ended up finding that out from a neighbor. But anyway, the state that the car was found in was very unsettling. It was unlocked, the keys were left in the ignition, the gas was empty, the battery was completely dead, which obviously suggests that it had been running for a very long time. And it was found towards the back of the parking lot, and it was backed into a spot, which. That alone is odd. Not that it's odd to back a car into a spot, of course. That's very, very typical. But given the state of mind that she was clearly in when she talked to Trevor and Eric, it's hard to believe that she would be able to operate a car at all, let alone back it into a parking spot. Now, since Abby didn't have a full time living space, she stored almost all of her stuff in her car and nothing appeared to be missing. Her phone, her purse, her wallet, even her contact lenses were all found in the car. And her friends and family have said that she just wouldn't have left without them. Some of her eyeshadow, palettes and lipsticks were broken and scattered throughout the car, which Lori said was bizarre because Abby really liked buying, you know, more expensive products and really always took good care of them. So to her, this immediately pointed to Ebby being in danger. And even with all of this, Little Rock PD said they didn't suspect any foul play, and they still believed that Abby was missing because she wanted to be. And God, that must have been so, so infuriating for her parents, for all of her loved ones. I cannot imagine being in that situation. I would just. Oh, my God, I would lose my. And how could you possibly think that after seeing the car like that? It. This. Something is not right here. Anyone could make that assumption right off the Bat. And even if the police want to be dead set on the idea that she wants to be missing, couldn't you at least make sure that that theory is correct? Couldn't you make sure that she's safe now? I am just so beyond sick, you guys. After years and years of covering these cases, seeing stories where missing people aren't taken seriously, even when there are so many suspicious things around their disappearance to point to foul play potentially. And I just, I don't understand how police departments at this stage in things can still be saying something like that. I mean, even from the beginning, it's offensive. But at this point, with what they have, really. Summer is here, folks. That means more sun, more light, more time to do all the things that make summer special. I actually, during our company lunch just now had to step outside and just have a moment of zen in the sun. Enjoy it, soak it in. 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And obviously, very early on in this investigation, Lori felt that the police were not doing enough. I'm sure everyone in Abby's life felt that way. It's just, in my opinion, facts. But she started to apply more pressure on them. Now, Roy Williams was initially the lead detective on the case. And a lot of tension grew between Lori and Roy. Lori would frequently call, email and request meetings, but she felt like they were just brushing her off. So their family just kept doing what they could, kept doing their own investigating. For instance, Lori and Michael were able to look into Abby's text and call history, something that the police should be doing. But this is when they found something interesting. On Saturday evening, the day before she disappeared, her phone made two calls to Little Rock pd, each about a minute long. And of course, we know that Ebby wanted to report her assault. So is it possible that this was an attempt to do that? Or is it possible that she needed immediate assistance with something else going on? On? Well, unfortunately, we don't know and we'll never know because the officers told Lori that they have no record of these phone calls. And not only were the police just dismissive of everything, but when they did do their job, they made many mistakes. It took Little Rock PD two to three weeks to subpoena records. And when they finally got them, they informed the family that the phone last pinged in the middle of a field 45 minutes outside of town. So Lori and Michael went there to search, but found absolutely nothing. And that's because the police accidentally subpoenaed records for the wrong phone. Yes, you heard that right. You would think it would have been obvious to them immediately considering the fact that her phone was found in her car. But I guess it didn't occur to them until after the family had gone on this wild goose chase looking for Ebby. So after that whole show, they finally looked at the data for the correct phone. But they didn't realize that AT T's data was in a different time zone. So they built a timeline based on phone records that weren't accurate. Super, super helpful. And because of this, they even accused Lori and Michael of having something to do with it because they thought they were lying about when Abby disappeared. Isn't that just infuriating? It was their mistake. They messed up the timeline, and then that leads them to start accusing her parents of being involved in her disappearance somehow. Like, it is so offensive, I can't even believe it. And it was all just because they were working off incorrect information. Nice, nice guys. And all those mistakes were bad enough and wasted so much time, but still, even after this, Little Rock PD just could not get their together. Man, it's truly some of the worst police work I think I've seen in a case. And of course, that's saying a lot, because I cover a lot of bad police work. And I just wanted to say again, I feel like I have to. To resay this every month or two because people just think I hate all police. And I don't. I fully recognize that there are some amazing police out there, amazing departments. It just really varies based on state and county and everything like that, obviously. But oftentimes the cases that I cover that need the attention are where the worst police work is. So I just have to make that clear. I do cover cases every once in a while where police do an amazing job, and I always give them credit for that, but this is not that case. But moving forward with more terrible police work from Little Rock pd, Lori claims that they told her not to go to the media, which is something we see a lot. And it's really frustrating because media is so crucial in these cases, especially with missing people. So initially she listened to them, and luckily that didn't last long. Since she's a hairdresser, she had a few clients who actually worked in local news. So she reached out to them, hoping that they would help her to spread the word. And she happened to have a friend who actually used to work work for the FBI and offered to help. But when she introduced him to detectives, they straight up refused his assistance, which you would think with how bad they had done at this point, that they would be like someone from the FBI, great, come help us. But no, no. They just want to continue sucking alone. And she also felt like they just weren't doing enough with Ebby's social media accounts. And claims that they told her they didn't know how to access them. And she even said that at one point she sent them the instructions directly from Facebook on how law enforcement can request access to a profile, yet they still didn't even try. And poor Lori. I mean, she doesn't understand the Internet or social media. How any of that works, but at least she did everything she could to try and understand it, since the police weren't willing to do that. And she even said the detectives didn't have an IT person to assist them, so she actually offered to find and pay for one for them. But According to her, Sergeant J.C. white strongly refused the help at first. But eventually, he did allow her to hire someone. And soon after starting his analysis, Lori's IT Guy believed that someone was accessing Abby's account. Now, I don't know what exactly caused him to think this, but he wanted to change the profile password to see if anyone would attempt to log in, because, you know, you get that little notification situation to your email or phone number or whatever. And when Lori informed Little Rock PD about this, they were furious with her, actually, according to Lori, they told her to stop looking into the accounts, that they wouldn't use any of the IT guys information, and that she would no longer be allowed to attend meetings with them about the investigation. Like this poor mother. It's beyond disrespectful and gross to everyone in Little Rock that pays taxes. And get this, you guys, it gets even worse. They even threatened to charge her with interfering with an investigation if she didn't stop, which is just. I don't even have words for that one. To be a mother in that situation, trying to do everything you can to help find your daughter, because the police don't seem to want to do much at all. And here, this IT guy that she hired for them found something, probably found something huge. And instead of pursuing this lead, the police got mad at her for it. And, of course, I'm not stupid. I understand that they can't have someone interfering with their investigation, but that's not what she's doing. And they're treating her like a problem, not like a worried mother looking for her daughter who's only trying to help because they aren't doing the things that they're supposed to do. Oh, and then get this. When Lori and Michael finally got her car back, a lot of Ebby's belongings that were in there had water damage. Because while the car was in their custody, Little Rock PD left the trunk open. And, of course, a rainstorm came through the city. I think it goes without saying that there could have been evidence in that trunk that was potentially washed away by that storm. And, you know, when you think about it and how reckless they were with her vehicle, you have to wonder if they even did the most basic processing, like dusting for fingerprints. Did they do anything with the car if they're willing to just leave the trunk open in a rainstorm. To me, it just feels like the police were quick to assume that she just ran away and they wanted to stick to that theory. They wanted that to be the reality they wanted to be right from the beginning. So they just didn't bother handling any of this with care. And Lori has talked publicly about her frustrations with law enforcement and of course she thinks more should have been done in the early stages and how could someone in that position not feel that way? And everyone in her family is really going through it. Trevor is spending his lunch break searching areas around town and even traveled to other states to follow up on tips. Her little sister Harris scoured Abby's social media posts for any clues, and they just continue to try to get the word out any way that they could. Digital billboards were put up across the state, thousands of flyers were distributed, her case was covered on the local news, and the official Find Ebby Stepic Facebook page was created and eventually had over 19,000 followers across the United States. But even with all of that, nothing was coming up.
- [42:35]
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- [43:34]
Kendall Ray
This message is sponsored by Greenlight. With school out, summer is the perfect time to teach our kids real world money skills they'll use forever. Greenlight is a debit card and the number one family finance and safety app used by millions of families helping kids learn how to save, invest and spend wisely. Parents can send their kids money and track their spending and saving while kids build money, confidence and skills in fun ways. Start your risk free green light trial today@greenlight.com iheart that's greenlight.com iheartra so, in early 2016, their family hired a private investigator named Monty Vickers. And he was actually a retired detective who had been with the Little rock police for 24 years. And at first, he was hesitant to take on this case because he didn't want to get involved in an active investigation. But once he saw what a mess, what a disgrace it was, he knew he had to help. And the work that he ended up doing was things that Little Rock PD should have done from day one. Like, for instance, he learned that Ebby would frequent a local Walmart. So he went to go and see for himself if she was captured there on surveillance. But by the time he got there, the footage had been erased. Now, when police originally found out about that, they didn't even bother to try and get it. And maybe we would have that if they, you know, weren't lazy in the beginning. And, of course, we don't know if she did go there. But getting that footage could have possibly led to some answers about where she went after she was last seen. Now, Monty was able to speak with Guy Hooper, the security guard I talked about earlier, who called in Ebby's abandoned vehicle multiple times before the police came to look at the park. And he confirmed with Monty that he first saw the car there shortly after Abby went missing. But when he called it in, no one from the police department ever came out. He even called it in again later in the week and waited hours at the park for them. But again, no one showed up. And shockingly, but actually not shockingly at all, really, Guy said that no one from Little Rock PD had spoken to him at all. So Monty gave everything over to the police, but we don't know if they actually did anything with this info, and my guess is probably not. Now, Monty was also able to talk to Abby's friend Gage, who was texting with her the day after the party. Remember, that's how we know about the text that she sent him about what had happened there, which is obviously very key information because it gives insight into what Abby was going through and had just experienced right before going missing, saying. And Monty also made another huge discovery. He learned that the police did not do their due diligence when it came to questioning the guys who were at the party. Law enforcement only interviewed the boys once, you guys. And during that, they were asked to turn over their phones, but they refused. Now, you would think you would hope, right, that the police department would want to talk to the guys that Ebby had accused of sexual assault. Sold a little bit more, at least more than once. But nope, this was good enough for Little Rock pd. And they're like, you don't want to hand over your phones, that's fine, whatever. We're moving on. Goodbye. We're done. Just like, oh, my God. But moving on, I need to introduce you to someone else who has been very helpful in this case, and that is Catherine Townsend. Now, she is the host of the podcast Helen Gone, and she's also an investigator. And so Monty sat down for interviews with her, and he told her that he spoke with Larry Jegley, the lead prosecuting attorney, about how police needed to look at the phones of the boys who were at that party that night. Law enforcement apparently spoke with these guys and they refused to turn over their phones. But Monty believes that the text that Abby sent to Gage was enough probable cause for a warrant. In this interview, he said Jegley told him that he had sent a deputy prosecutor to the Little Rock Police Department and told them to write up a warrant for the boys phones with this probable cause. But the sergeant argued with him that they still didn't have enough to write a warrant. Now, if that's true, true, that's honestly baffling because it's usually the prosecutors who argue the legalities of probable cause for a warrant, not the other way around. So it's just really bizarre that a sergeant would argue about how strong probable cause is. And one of the biggest things that Monty found out was that Ebby actually sent several messages to the guys threatening to go to police. And I'm sure most of your minds were already there, right, that maybe these guys had something to do with it, considering what happened. And now that you hear that she was threatening to go to the police, I mean, doesn't it seem like wanting to stop her from doing that would be a pretty good motive to do something? Like, things are really falling together here. Now, again, Monty has turned over everything he has to the police, and we still don't know if they use that information. I hope they did. I am very doubtful that they did. And as time went on, the family did their best not to let Ebby be forgotten. Gotten. So In January of 2016, her family announced that they would increase the reward from 3,000 to 15,000. And on March 30, 2016, they held a vigil and lit 1, 000 candles to honor her 19th birthday. And then in June of 2016, Abby's case was transferred to the Little Rock PD's Violet Crimes Unit. And on November 29, 2016, the unit conducted a three day search of Shalomont park. And they were joined by the amazing people at the national center for missing and exploited Children. And they also brought two cadaver dogs to the scene. But ultimately they found nothing related to Ebby's disappearance during that search. And even though it seemed like law enforcement was maybe finally taking things seriously, Abby's loved ones still had to continue their work. And Lori even began to wonder if there was a possibility that Ebby had been trafficked and sort of began to explore that theory. And part of the reason that she. She felt that way. And this is. Oh my God. Infuriating. I cannot believe there are people evil enough in this world to actually do this. But she started getting prank calls from random people that were saying that Ebby was being sold. Can you imagine having no idea what happened to your child, where they are, and then people have the nerve to call you and tell you something like that? And what is the point of that? Do people find that fun? They find it funny? I don't know. There's some sick people we share this world with, Guys you would just naturally have to wonder if there was any validity to it. Right. Site also, her friend Danielle started looking at sites like Craigslist and Backpage to see if there was any trace of Ebby. Lori also got in touch with Halo and Thorn, which are organizations that specialize in combating trafficking and exploitation. And they were hoping they could use their resources to find out if Ebby had been a victim of trafficking. But nothing panned out. Nothing was leading to answers about where Ebby was. So by 2017, they still had no solid answers. But the biggest update came in June of the year. That year. And that's when the Little Rock PD held a press conference to give updates on the case. They announced that the department was forming a now part time cold case squad that was made up of four retired investigators. And this included Tommy Hudson, who was leading the investigation. Tommy is a seasoned homicide detective who worked for the Little Rock police department for 31 years. And he had actually just retired a few months before, but decided to return to the force to work on unsolved cases, which is pretty cool in my book. And so of course, all of this to Ebby's friends and family seems like a step in the right direction. And. And Lori has been very vocal about how respectful Tommy Hudson has been while handling this case with great care. And he's been very vocal about the many mistakes made at the beginning of this investigation. And in a lot of ways, he was sort of starting from square one, apparently. And again, are we shocked by this? Absolutely not. But the original team didn't look in depth at Ebby's phone records, and they only did superficial searches. And he said that the original team spent a lot of time investigating their family, which is like, yeah, of course, that is important to do, but they spent a lot of time doing that. And this new team was able to rule them out in a matter of days. After looking at digital evidence, the squad started working with the FBI and following up on promising tips. But that did not mean that the family was stopping their fight. I mean, they were still picking up Steel Team because around that same time, their family announced that they were raising the reward again, and this time to $50,000. And in October of 2017, TJ Ward, a private investigator who also worked on the Natalee Holloway case, joined the search. So lots of good things were happening, lots of movement, Better people are getting involved. And then In December of 2017, Lori and Michael went on Dr. Phil to discuss Abby's disappearance. Now, again, I have been very, very vocal about how I feel about Dr. Phil, and I think he is very exploitive and. And just a downright horrible human being. But I do appreciate the way that he helped their family. He gave. I think he did a couple of episodes actually, on Abby's case and really gave them a lot of publicity and awareness. So hats off to you, Dr. Phil on that one. And I guess originally Lori was going to be featured in a segment about missing young women. But then it was decided that Abby's story would just be the focus of an entire episode. And, yeah, this was huge for Ebby's case. I mean, getting onto this show, especially Dr. Phil, around this time was a lot more popular. I actually used to be quite into Dr. Phil around 2017, 2018. I used. I don't know, I used to watch it, like, all the time. So it really got a lot of eyes on Ebby's story. And Tommy Hudson said that this led to a lot of new tips from all across the nation. And unfortunately, none of those tips actually led to helping locate Ebby. But Lori has said that following up with these tips led to rescuing two victims out of sex trafficking. So that's huge. And then In March of 2018, her family partnered with the organization Path to put on a large fundraising event in honor of Ebby's 21st birthday. Now, path stands for parents Against Trafficking Humans, and they provide services for survivors of Human trafficking and sexual assault. They sold balloons, T shirts and desserts with every dollar going to Path. And this event was also a way to remind people that Ebby was still missing after three years. And what's so sad is her family couldn't focus on all these things and raising awareness for Ebby because. Because they were still dealing with tension with the Little Rock Police Department. And around this time, Lori made the difficult decision to file an official complaint against the department, which I am so, so happy that she did that. The complaint names the captain, a lieutenant, and a sergeant. And she alleges that officers on the case had yelled at her during meetings, sent her threatening text messages, and told her that she was not allowed to receive updates on the case anymore. She also talked about an incident where she had met with an officer to discuss the threatening town texts. And it ended with an officer yelling at her, slamming files down on the table and telling her not to call for updates about the case. Just atrocious behavior all around.
- [54:34]
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- [55:37]
Kendall Ray
Now. Lori had waited until Ebby's case was transferred to a different unit because she was working. Worried that filing a complaint would make it even harder for investigators to take the case seriously or possibly retaliate, which I think was such a smart move on her part, although it would be really hard to wait. Right? Like I would be just infuriated after being treated that way. But you know, obviously to her, her daughter's case matters more than anything. And I think she's probably right that if she had filed that complaint sooner, there would have been retaliation in some Way, shape, or form, and it could have negatively impacted her daughter's case. Now, unfortunately, I don't have good news about how all of that shook out because an internal investigation was opened, but it was closed in just a few months, and that was because they claimed insufficient evidence. They sent a letter to Lori saying that they couldn't prove that the police were rude and unprofessional. And so just make of that what you will. Lori later said they victimized us on top of not looking for our daughter, telling us that she'd just show up. They were just waiting to see if she'd show up. They were rude, hateful, mean spirited, untruthful to me and my husband. I think pretty much all of you out there, given what we know about this investigation, the facts that we have, that it's, you know, easy to side with Lori on that one. And the original investigators negligence became even more evident when everyone finally learned where Abby had been this entire time. And that brings me to May 22nd of 2018. On that day, detectives executed a search at Shalomont park, and they discovered human skeletal remains in a drainage pipe. Tommy Hudson said the search wasn't prompted by any tips, but he just had a hunch that they should look at the pipes near where Ebby's car was originally found found. So around 10:30am that day, they sent robots with attached cameras down through it and came to an obstruction about 70ft down. Now, they have said that this obstruction wasn't the remains, but it did lead to an excavation, and that's when they were found. And I just want to try my best to describe the pipes that you can get a full picture here. So there was a manhole cover that Ebby's car was parked literally right by, which led to an underground storm pipe that connected to the other side of the parking lot lot. Now, I don't have the exact dimensions of the pipe, but it wasn't very large at all. I mean, it's pretty tiny. And we'll get more into that later. But the remains were sent to the Arkansas State Crime Lab, and the next day, a police spokesperson publicly confirmed that the remains were those of Ebi Stepic. This whole time, she was there, just about 60ft from where her car was found. They also stated that the technicians would continue to test the skeletal remains for any signs of trauma and that they were treating seeing this as a homicide now. And also, it's important to note that new evidence was found during the excavation. But law enforcement still hasn't stated what exactly it was just that it was sent to the laboratory for analysis. Ebby's family also released a statement that same day. And it reads, the family would like to thank all of you who have supported the efforts to find Abby. It has been through your support, many prayers, and God's strength that they have been able to make this journey. The statement also thanked Tommy Hudson, the cold case Unit, the FBI, and Monty Vickers. And Lori, at the end of the day, really credits Tommy Hudson for finding her daughter's remains. And I can understand why. I mean, without him, who knows if Abby would have ever been found? And Lori would later say that deep in her heart she felt that her daughter was dead, but just couldn't accept it until the remains were found. She's also talked about how she wishes she had thought to crawl down the pipe herself and that she feels that law enforcement didn't do a good enough job searching the park. And I hope that we can all agree that she, she is absolutely right on that one. Like, when you think about it, it's possible Abby could have been found three years earlier, like within days or weeks, maybe like two weeks from her disappearance. And then, guys, this next bit of information is going to blow your mind. I mean, it certainly blew mine. So back on November 3, 2015, just days after Abby's car was found, Margie Foley and her daughter Kaylee sat down with Detective Roy Williams to answer any question questions now to explain who they are. Kaylee and Ebby were really close friends and she even stayed with them for a few weeks before she disappeared. Now after the meeting, the two of them felt compelled to help more and they decided to just go to Shalomont park themselves and do their own little search. So Margie walked near a drain opening in the parking lot and was instantly hit with this horrific smell. And she told Kaylee to go back to the car because she didn't want her daughter to smell her friend's remains. Like she knew right off the bat that she was smelling human decomposition. And she reported it, you guys. Yep, that's right. She called Detective Williams directly, but he didn't answer. So she called 911 to report the smell. 91 1, what's location emergency? I just came out of a meeting with Detective Williams in regards to a missing person named Eddie. Okay, I brought my daughter here, who's a friend of hers, and we just started walking around and I can smell the composition. So I was just tried to call his phone and he didn't call me back. Could you all send somebody here to Investigate. She and Kaylee then waited at the park for a long time for someone to come out. And she ended up calling 911 at least three times before anyone arrived. And she said when they finally arrived, they were completely dismissive of her, which is right on brand for them. Right. They told her that she was probably just smelling sewage or a small dead animal out there and didn't take it serious. I got to right about, you know, I got right about here, and I just got hit with the smell of decomposition. Margie says she called for Kaylee to head back to the car. I didn't want her to smell it. And then she was. Kept asking me why, and I said, I smell deep decomposition coming from that drain. She says more than an hour passed before LRPD officers showed up at the scene. I was kind of dismissed by him. This park was gone through with dogs, and they, you know, would have picked up on that. And it must be an animal or something. Abby's car was found in this lot at Shalimont park, just steps from the entrance, entrance into the drainage system. If you walk with me down this way, you'll see that her remains were found right here at this end of the drainage system, only about a hundred feet from where she possibly entered that system. I'm very angry. I'm angry. Poor Ebby. Because she didn't deserve to lay down there like that. It's just hard to think someone you know or someone you are best friends with went missing and then turns out they were where he thought they were the whole time and no one did anything. And it's just so infuriating for so many reasons that it took so long to actually recover her remains, not only does it prevent the family from getting at least that element of closure to know what happened to her, to know whether she's alive or not. And the worst thing about it is, though, is the fact that by the time they did find her remain, she was very, very decomposed. I mean, not much left, Right. So had the smell been taken seriously right away, they obviously couldn't save her. But they could have had the possibility to have found valuable evidence and know more about the condition that her body was in when she died, which would have been very, very crucial to this investigation. And we may have have a lot more answers today than we do. And I would comfortably say that I'm very sure that that would have been the case. But, yeah, they really could have saved her loved ones years and years of pain and trying to figure out what happened to her all that stress that they were carrying. Because over the years, many of her friends and family went out to that park. Lori and Ebby's grandma would go every few weeks to place flowers just a few feet from the drainage pocket hype, and the community created many makeshift memorials there. And her friends and family held a vigil at that park. Lori had even done press interviews there, pleading for help from the public to locate Ebby. She had no idea that that whole time her daughter was right there. And I'm sure this won't surprise you at all, but she didn't even know that a smell was reported until well after the fact. For years, she chased any lead she could, but the biggest lead was completely withheld from her for no reason. Reason. Now, Abby's cause of death has never publicly been revealed, but when Dateline did a cold case spotlight on Abby, Tommy Hudson told them that her death was being investigated as a homicide. But other than that, barely any other details have been released. So once her family finally had her remains, they could properly lay her to rest. And so a celebration of life was held on May 26, 2018, at Christ Community Church on the campus of Little Rock Christian Academy, a church that Ebby had often attended. Attended. Ebby's pastor, Tim Lundy, officiated the service, and before it, he asked her loved ones to write down a one word description of her. And he read them during the service, and some of them included happy, sassy, and loud. The service was filled with friends, family, and people of the community and even some members of law enforcement who worked on the case. And those who attended were her favorite color, purple. And many people held purple irises, her favorite flower. Abby's sister Harris, had put together a slideshow of videos and photos that played to the song song Where's My Love? By Syml. And she said it was actually a song that she often listened to when Abby was missing. And how she would mentally beg for Abby to come home while she was listening, which is just heartbreaking to think about. And later that year In November, over 20 of her loved ones gathered to plant a jasmine maple tree at Shalomont park with a plaque that reads, in loving memory of Ebby Jane Stepik. She loved fear fiercely. Members of the organization Halo that Lori worked closely with were also in attendance. And the tree was picked out by her paternal grandparents and was donated by the owners of a local company called River Valley Horticulture. And while at the park for the planting, Lori said she loved children, and having this tree here at this playground seems perfect. I hope this tree grows strong and lasts forever. It's really beautiful the way that her loved ones and so many members of the community did all of these beautiful things and came together to. To honor Abby's life. But it's upsetting that they even had to. I mean, she was just 18 years old. She had so much more life to live, and it was cut so short, and we still don't even know why. I mean, even to this day. Now, unfortunately, there haven't been any major updates since her remains were found back in 2018, and since then, her loved ones have still felt the impacts of everything. I'm so sad to share this update with you, but her brother Trevor actually passed away from a heart attack at just 35 years old on April 17, 2019, just a little over a year after Abby was found. Lori has said that she believes that the stress of everything played a factor in his health. And, I mean, I'm no doctor, but I'm sure she's right about that, at least to some degree. And poor Lori. She has also been in and out of the hospital over the years and was actually diagnosed with broken heart syndrome, which, if you didn't know, is a real medical condition where emotional stress can cause the heart muscles to weaken. In 2022, Abby's grandma Debbie spoke publicly for the first time and revealed that she had been quietly conducting her own investigation and showed a reporter all of her materials, including an investigation board listing all the details she had found. She said that she wasn't always Internet savvy, but she trained herself to become a sleuth on social media to find possible clues. And this is heartbreaking, but she said that the last time she saw Abby, she had asked her grandma to braid her hair like she did. She was a little girl, and so she did. And that is the last memory that she has of her granddaughter. Now, she has said that she remained quiet for so long because law enforcement asked her to. But then she also received prank calls from some sick person, some freak mimicking a young girl's voice, saying, grandma, help me. And that, you know, just finally sent her over the edge, and she decided not to be quiet anymore. Then in 2021, it was announced that Tommy Hudson would unfortunately be leaving the department to work at the North Little Rock Police Department. Detective Bruce Maxwell took over as lead detective and is still in that position to this day. And just when you think this case can't possibly have any more insanely frustrating bombshells, Bruce dropped quite a big one on Lori, and he informed her that the timeline that the police had this whole time was wrong. Was wrong. Yep. They just were working on an incorrect timeline all of these years. They had originally believed that Ebby was safe with friends that Saturday night, but he saw pictures on her phone that had never been looked at, which threw off the entire timeline. I mean, seriously, what the was going on with this investigation originally? It makes no sense. So they're now saying that they don't know where Abby was that Saturday night after all. Which, of course, raises a million more questions. And there's something else that makes this even more uncertain and frustrating. During an interview in 2022, Lori said that she learned that Ebby and her friend Kaylee, the one who had gone out to the park with her mother just as a reminder, and smelled the remains. But the two of them had switched phones before Abby disappeared. Kaylee had bought Abby's iPhone 6 and Abby took her iPhone 5 5. Well, apparently the phones would sync up sometimes still. And Kaylee said that she would sometimes get Ebby's photos. So have law enforcement been possibly looking at things from Kaylee's phone, thinking it was Ebby's or vice versa? It's honestly so frustrating, so unclear, so confusing. But I can only hope that at this point in time, law enforcement understands all of this has sorted out all these massive mistakes stakes and is being super careful with the data they're looking at now and moving forward. Now, that same year, Dr. Phil did a follow up on the case, and some interesting theories were discussed in that episode. First, as I mentioned, Eric, her boyfriend, was on, and he rarely spoke publicly about the case. And he said he wondered if it was possible that Ebby had experimented with some type of drug while with a group of people and maybe she was even roofied. And if so, he thinks it's possible that she had a bad reaction and that the people she was with covered it up. Now, he hasn't elaborated on what led him to this theory, but he said that Abby would go to that park to hang out with people, and sometimes he would even go there with her. And then in my mind, too, I'm sure part of it is the fact that when she called Trevor, she was saying, I'm. I mean, clearly she was up, but was also saying, I'm up, I'm up. But it's interesting to think that she could have been at the park with other people, which would explain the way that her car was backed into that parking spot. And it sounds like it would have been abnormal for her to have gone to the park completely alone. And this was all also the first time that anyone had learned that he had seen her on Friday or that he briefly talked to her on Saturday. So this interview is how we have that information. And then another theory is that Ebby put herself in the drainage pipe. Lori claims Little Rock detectives told her they believed this happened, but she didn't say why they came to this conclusion. She also said they were essentially done with investigating, but they wouldn't officially close the case. Case. Now, to me personally, this theory doesn't make sense. I don't personally believe it. But there seems to be only two theories about why she would put herself down there. And one is that she went down there purposefully to take her own life. But the only real evidence that I could find a point to this is when Ebby sent that text to her friend Gage that said she was going to take her life, which again, it's an alarming text, but nobody in her life says that she was exhibiting the desire to do that. And again, she's a teenager. It's very possible she was just being hyperbolic. And I'm not discrediting her feelings here. I just, I find it really hard to believe that she would go into this pipe to take her own life. I don't know. And it's also important to note that her grandparents remember she was with them and they went out to tbcy that night. They said that she wasn't acting out of the ordinary at all and they had spent a significant amount of time with her. So I don't know. And of course, before anyone comments, I know know that sometimes the signs aren't there and you can't tell when someone is in that headspace. So it is a possibility. Now, the second theory is that she possibly put herself down there because she got scared of something and hid in the drain pipe, but ended up getting stuck. Lori has stated that Ebby was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but she didn't experience hallucinations and she typically took medication to keep the symptoms under control. So it's not believed that her diagnosis would contribute to to this. Now, Catherine Townsend, that investigator, actually tried to test these theories herself by going into the same drainage pipe. And she said it was incredibly small, super super narrow and tough to maneuver in. She said the only way she could see someone putting themselves in there is if they went in head first with their arms fully extended out, or when in feet first still with their arms extended. Therefore, it just doesn't feel plausible that Ebby would have done this to her, herself. And not to mention how difficult it would have been for her to even get down there. I mean, Ebby was 5 foot 2 and weighed about 105 pounds. And a standard manhole cover can weigh between 90 and 250 pounds. But the FBI did do a reenactment using someone with her general height and weight, and they could lift it. But given her state of mind on the phone call with Trevor and Eric, they don't think she could have done it. And I agree. I mean, personally, I don't believe this theory at all. All. However, I'm open to hearing what you guys think. But one more point on that. Let's also not forget that she would have had to drag the manhole cover back in place while balancing on a ladder as she went down. I mean, I just don't believe it. And she would have had to do all of this at night with very little light to see what she was doing and was clearly under the influence of something strong. But during all this theorizing, Tommy Hudson has raised the possibility that Abby's position could have changed. Changed in the pipe after three years of rainwater running. Now, Tommy didn't appear in the Dr. Phil episode, but he sent in a statement that said he believes that someone put Eddie in that drain pipe and that this case can be solved one day. And, of course, there are a few theories about who could have put her down there. Katherine Townsend actually raised some suspicions about the park security guard. Remember Guy Hooper? We've talked about him a couple times. Now, she didn't accuse him of anything specific, and I'm certainly not let's make that clear. But she did have some questions about his story. She found a police report about the abandoned vehicle that showed a neighbor being the one to report it. And she had a problem with this because sky had said in interviews that he reported it. So the idea has been raised that he's lying about it for a specific purpose. But on the other hand, as I've said before, Little Rock PD doesn't seem to keep good records of its calls. So maybe Guy still called them multiple times about the car. Car. But an official report wasn't taken until the neighbor called. I can totally see that being the case. And when he first spoke to Monty, he told him the car was found in front of the parking lot, when really it was found in the back towards the drain pipe. Now, of course, this doesn't point to guilt, but it is a little suspicious that he misidentified these details multiple times. I mean, he could be confused or inserting himself into a high profile case case when he really doesn't have the information to do that. And I'm not saying there is enough to point to his involvement or something. I'm certainly not saying that. Let me be very clear. I just did want to include this theory because it's been talked about quite a bit in this case. Another theory is that it was someone that the public isn't even aware of right now. Tommy Hudson has said there are people he's suspicious of that don't include the guys from the party. He wouldn't say much else about it, but he did say it's someone that she met up with, but the details have never been disclosed. Closed. Now of course, the biggest theory in this case that I'm sure most of you are leaning towards, and I certainly am, is that one or all or some of the boys from the house party had something to do with it. Like I said before, police did speak to them once. That remains true to this day as far as we know. And they weren't strongly investigated and their phones were not searched. So it doesn't seem like enough was done to fully rule them out. I mean, I think we can safely say that, right. And her stepdad Michael believes that when Abby left her grandparents home, she was actually going to try to obtain that video of the assault to have when she went to the police. And I think that makes total sense. It was also later discovered that Abby texted the boy who drove her to the house party about being filmed and asked for that guy's number and he said he'd give it to her. Plus we cannot forget about those two Google searches she made that even evening. Based on this and everything that Michael has said, she seemed very serious about going to the police that night. So is it possible that she tried to meet him and threatened to go to the police but was stopped before she could? I mean, it certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone was killed to stop them from going to the police about a crime. It just seems like such a strong possibility and I cannot believe that these boys have not been looked into more. But at the end of the day, God, it is so frustrating that here we are like 10 years later, later and we still don't have any more answers after all of this time. But like Tommy Hudson said, this case can be solved. And in 2024, Lori did share information that makes that very possible. In an interview with True Crime News, she said that there was actually DNA in this case. She didn't reveal what type it was or where it was found. But she did say that it had been sent off for testing. This was the first time that that information was disclosed to the public. And I think it gives some renewed hope that maybe they finally will get those answers. Maybe there will be justice one day. And then very recently, just a couple months ago, In May of 2025, there was another very significant update. The Arkansas Attorney General Tim Griffin announced that his office was forming a new cold case unit with two former homicide investigators working full time. And Abby's case will be the one that they're focusing on on. After all of the years without answers, after dealing with people prank calling her and fighting with law enforcement, being disrespected by them, let down by them every step of the way until, you know, good people finally got involved later on, which I'm so, so grateful for. But I am so happy to hear that she's still feeling hopeful and confident that it's now being worked on the right way. But at the time of recording this episode, that is the last update date. But I really hope that one day I'll be able to come back and tell you all that there's been a break in the case and even better, hopefully that there will be answers and justice for this family and for Ebby after all of these years. Before I go, I wanted to end this episode the way that we started, with some of Ebby's own words. Lori said that at one point while in school, a teacher asked the class how they would want to be remembered and Ebby said, I want to leave this world a better place than the one I came into to and I want people to always remember my name, even those that don't know me. And it's so eerie to think about that in her very short life. And I'm sure this is not the way that she had pictured it being, but that is a legacy that she was able to leave behind. I hope all of you I know I certainly will always remember her name, even though we never got the opportunity to actually know her. And I hope her family knows how many lives Abby was able to touch. Lori is still, of course, determined to get answers what happened to her daughter and has said that she doesn't want her to be forgotten and will do everything that she can to prevent that. And I think by talking about her case, we're able to support her in that way. And I'm happy that so many other creators in True Crime have covered her case. Even recently, my friend Derek Levasseur covered the case and he did a great job with it. He's excellent. And many others have covered her case as well. And I think it's so important and so valuable that we are continuing to speak about Ebby after all of these years. And of course, as always, when it comes to these unsolved or missing cases, if you want to amplify Abby's story even further, please consider sharing this episode or someone else's episode or any type of coverage, even just a picture and your own. Write up on social media or talk about Ebby with your friends and family. Because we know at the end of the day, at least one person, if not multiple people, in my opinion, I think it's probably multiple people knows what happened to her. And at the end of the day, we need them to know, know that this isn't going away and we want justice. And of course, as always, anyone with information on the murder of Ebi Stepic is encouraged to call the Little Rock Police Department Cold case unit at 501-404-3128. Thank you to all of you who have stuck with me through this case. I know this was a very long, very complicated episode, and I obviously had a lot of emotion about the police, a lot of frustrations, but I. I just, I'm sure a lot of you get it. And I know it, like, annoys people when I talk badly about the police, but how can you not? This is insane. And that I just feel that every citizen in this country should be scared and angry when you hear about this type of failure in our law enforcement. I mean, we pay for our law enforcement. And to think that God forbid something happens to you or someone you love and this is what we could potentially be dealing with. It's in. We have to call it out, even when it's uncomfortable. And I'm sorry to those who think it's annoying, but I really don't care because this is atrocious and we should not accept it. My heart truly goes out to Ebby's friends and family, everyone who loved her. And I can't imagine what it would be like to have gone 10 years with without any answers and without anyone being held accountable for such a horrific crime. And not to mention the crime that had occurred right before she was murdered. And of course, I just said murder. I know that there is a possibility, there is a theory that she had gone into the pipe herself and it. Maybe it wasn't a murder, but in my heart of hearts, I believe this was a murder that is going to be it for me today. Guys. Thank you for joining me for another episode and make sure you follow the show on Spotify and Apple podcasts. It really does help me out. If you want to watch the video version of this show you can find it on my YouTube channel which will be linked or you can just search Kendall Ray. I will be back with another episode soon, but until then stay safe out there. What if your top salesperson was a thousand times more efficient? And what if a limitless digital workforce helped your number one find leads? A super team working 247 on their behalf, thinking, acting and solving complex tasks so more deals closed? What if with every single sale, each customer felt like they were the only customer that would be one very efficient sales leader. Now imagine if every person on your team worked to the power of 1000. They can with AgentForce, the powerful AI from Salesforce.
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