True Fiction Project – Episode Summary

Podcast: True Fiction Project
Host: Reenita Hora
Episode: Revisited - India at 75: A Special "Partition Story" with Shukla Lal, Author of Rano and Phulo
Guest: Shukla Lal, Delhi-based author
Date: August 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this special episode commemorating 75 years of Indian independence, host Reenita Hora sits down with author Shukla Lal to discuss her personal experiences of Partition, the inspiration behind her novel Rano and Phulo, and the evolution of the Indian identity post-Partition. The episode begins with a deeply personal oral history and shifts into literary discussion, reflecting the True Fiction Project’s signature blend of real-life stories and their fictional echoes. The latter half features a dramatic reading from Lal’s book by her daughter, Sonia Kohlar, providing listeners with an immersive taste of fiction rooted in history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shukla Lal’s Family Story and the Partition Journey

• Introduction and Background

  • Shukla clarifies her origins: “By the way, I come from Lahore.” (02:45)
  • She describes her family’s presence in Lahore before Partition and the unexpected dimension of their escape.

• The Escape to Shimla

  • The family initially left Lahore for a holiday in Shimla because Lal’s mother was expecting (06:15).
  • Lal’s aunt urged them to leave, foreseeing violence as refugees streamed in and the city became unstable (06:15).
  • “No one believed that they will not go back to their homes... Everyone thought that they would go back. They never thought there would be this kind of a division.” – Shukla Lal (05:13)

• Father’s Ordeal Returning to Shimla

  • Shukla’s father, separated from the family, faced grave dangers trying to reunite, escaping a near-deadly attack and stowing away under a tarpaulin in a Maharani's military caravan:
    • “The Maharani… used to whip in case there’s a stowaway. And my father has borne those pain of the whip on his back.” (08:13, 00:30 repeated story in more detail)
    • His ordeal included crossing a pontoon bridge and narrowly evading a pursuing mob.

2. Inspiration for Rano and Phulo

• The Book’s Genesis

  • Inspired by the 70th anniversary of independence, Lal began writing at age 80, motivated by a flood of memories and generational transitions:
    “I suddenly had this feeling… I should write of the India in which we were brought up after partition… the transition taking place.” (03:06)
  • Rano and Phulo features two heroines: Rano, from a wealthy Amritsar family, and Phulo, a rural villager—representing both urban and rural Punjab (03:06).

• Reflections on Memory and Fiction

  • While not directly inserting her personal escape into fiction, Shukla incorporated everyday scenes and memories, such as tonga rides through agricultural Lahore and the communal lifestyle of Punjabis, into the descriptions and mood of her novel (12:28).
  • “Those pictures that I have, I have put them into the book… the book opens with the sound of the bulls pulling the water…” (12:28)

3. India: Then and Now

• Capturing a Vanished India

  • Lal’s intent was to “freeze” the India of her childhood—a time when, despite religious lines drawn by Partition, there was a sense of integration and national unity:
    “The India that came with Gandhiji as the guru… their whole aim was amity… not based on religion.” (15:20)

• Women and Nation-Building

  • Shukla highlights the extraordinary resilience and entrepreneurship of women post-Partition:
    “With Gandhiji’s supporting mission, the way the women came out… there was a national feeling. There was not a Hindu Muslim feeling. There was just one India.” (15:20)

• Shifts in National Identity

  • Reflects on India’s post-Partition global standing, referencing the Panchsheel (peaceful coexistence) principle and how India became internationally recognized:
    “India became a globally recognized nation and a self-respecting nation. Though poor, but not as poor as it was soon after partition...” (19:42)

• India’s Future

  • Candidly considers the cyclical nature of history and shifting ideals:
    • “History tells you that… whatever has risen as a golden power… has had a downfall... We are at the cusp of a transition of a very different kind.” (21:52)
    • “The ideal India… today we have a different kind of a team who's making a different idea. So let us see where we are going.” (21:52)

4. On Writing and Literary Legacy

• Debut at 80 and Beyond

  • Shukla describes becoming a debut author at 80, publishing Rano and Phulo, Floating Logs, and volumes of poetry and short stories:
    • “I wrote two books. One was Rano Pullo and the other was Floating Logs… then I wrote about a book on Nazams Hindustani.” (23:58)

• Availability

  • Her books are available on Amazon and Kindle, usually under “Author at 80” or published by Notional Press (23:33).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Refugee Camps and Optimism:
  “We were never made to feel as refugees. It was such a taken for granted thing. We are Indians, finished.” – Shukla Lal (15:20)

• On Women’s Strength:
  “The way the women came out, the entrepreneurship that the women did… they were actually business women.” – Shukla Lal (15:20)

• On Partition’s Psychic Wounds:
  “My father has borne those pain of the whip on his back… though the tarpaulin was on him, oh my gosh, he couldn't catch my father, could not even make a sound.” – Shukla Lal (08:13)

• On Historical Perspective:
  “Today we have a different kind of a team who’s making a different kind of an idea. So let us see where we are going…” – Shukla Lal (21:52)

• Inspiration at 80:
  “It is on Amazon and on Kindle and it is under the heading of author at 80. Because I was a debutant.” – Shukla Lal (23:33)

Fiction Segment: Reading from Rano and Phulo

(Read by Sonia Kohlar, starting at 25:57)

• Excerpt Summary:
  • The passage details the terror and horror in Dera Ambavali as Partition violence erupts in July 1947. Families, once neighbors, are torn asunder by communal mistrust and violence.
  • Particularly chilling is the episode where, facing an unstoppable mob and no escape, men tragically decide to kill their own women to spare them from assault—a grim, but historically documented facet of Partition atrocities.
    • “The only solution is to kill all of them with our own swords. Then we fight the attackers and die fighting… Their lack of time was the saviour for the family. It left no margin for emotions.” (25:57–33:18)
    • “Dadi and Fufiji led by jumping into the well… Each man beheaded his own wife, one after another…”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening and Partition Family Story: 00:30 – 08:13
• On Inspiration for Writing and Book Setting: 03:06 – 05:13
• Personal Escape/Partition Ordeal in Detail: 06:13 – 12:13
• Discussion on Memory and Fictionalization: 12:13 – 15:20
• India’s Changing Identity and Role of Women: 15:20 – 19:42
• India’s International Recognition and Future: 19:42 – 21:52
• Book Availability and Shukla’s Writing Journey: 23:33 – 23:58
• Fiction Reading by Sonia Kohlar: 25:57 – 33:18

Tone and Style

• The conversation is candid, nostalgic, and at times harrowing, capturing both the pain and resilience of Partition survivors.
• Lal speaks with warmth, pride, and a historian’s precision, offering listeners not just stories, but living memory.
• The fiction excerpt is haunting, immersive, and true to the historical record, highlighting the immense human cost of Partition.

For further reading and links to Shukla Lal’s books, check the show notes as directed by host Reenita Hora (24:51).