Michelle C. Hollow (3:04)

Hi, Renita. Thank you very much for having me.

Renita Hora (3:08)

Great to have you on the show. And my gosh, you have written so much about so many things. Animals, wildlife. Is that the through line?

Michelle C. Hollow (3:20)

As a kid, I grew up loving animals. I think I blame my mom. She kind of just put this in my head. She adopted. Somebody was taking a poodle, a purebred poodle, with all the papers from a breeder. We don't do breeders to the pound because the dog was a bit unruly. It was a puppy. And I think I was about 11, 10, 11 at the time. So my mom took the dog off this person's hands, and my dad said, this dog better be trained or else he's going to be gone. And I was like, I love this dog. So it just. I loved all kinds of animals. And I grew up in the Bronx in New York, and my mom enrolled me in zoology classes at the Bronx Zoological Zoo. Yep. It was about three miles from my house. I walked there, and I love being around the animals. I listened to the zoologists talk. I got to interact with some of the animals. I mean, this was bliss for me. And there's certain topics that I'm not going to take to. It's just. There's nothing wrong with them. I'm not into sports. That's fine. But there's an article about animals. I will read it. I mean, I just. I adore them.

Renita Hora (4:32)

Oh, my gosh. Who doesn't, right? This is music to my ears. I mean, I am very familiar with the Bronx Zoo, have spent a lot of time there. Not as a kid myself, alas. I didn't get there till I was an adult. But I took my kids. And you're right, that place is heaven on earth. I mean, I can see how you, in your growing years, you would just get lost with the animals and the induction of their wisdom. Animal wisdom.

Michelle C. Hollow (4:57)

It was wonderful. I mean, and then in the summers, I was a volunteer at the Central park suit because I thought Manhattan was cooler than the Bronx. I like the Bronx, but I'm very proud of my roots. The animals, the zookeepers were really wild. They were great. And I remember one of the animals that I got attached to had passed, and I was in tears. And this zookeeper took me into the cage with one of the chimpanzees, and he let me hold him, and he gave me a whole lesson about how I should not have favorites and that they're all important and it stayed with me. It really has stayed with me. So now, if I get a chance to write about cats, dogs, whatever, I am happy. It's my happy spot.

Renita Hora (5:40)

Oh, that's great. That is fantastic. Yeah. I mean, those are interesting and hard lessons, perhaps, to learn as a kid, you know, know, don't have favorites. Don't get attached. How do you not? Right. So this is very interesting because then you've also done a middle grade biography about the Grateful Dead, which is quite the opposite of all of this. Tell us about that.

Michelle C. Hollow (6:04)

I love music. I think all kinds of music. I have the good fortune to write for Symphony magazine occasionally. So, I mean, that's totally different, obviously, from Grateful Bed music, but I don't think there's any music that I don't like. So I was offered. Somebody said, there's a series of books coming out for middle grade students when, as a parent, when you have a little one in the backseat of your car, you were the one in charge of the radio. So I would play the Dead. I would play music that I grew up listening to. And this editor said, do you want to write a book about the Grateful Dead? And I was like, yes. And what was really nice about it was I had just done a different story where the person that I wrote about was very happy, and he was having a party at his house, and Bob Weir, one of the Grateful Dead members, was going to be attending. And he said, do you want to meet him? And I'm like, yes, I do. And it was great because his kids were the age that I was writing for at that time. So he was very open and very kind, and he answered my questions.

Renita Hora (7:08)

I live in San Francisco, so this is definitely, you know, place of Deadheads. And not being one myself, though, but I'm sure. As sure as you can be if you don't know. There must have been other books about the Grateful Dead. And was this an authorized biography? It sounds like it was. I mean, if you met Bob.

Michelle C. Hollow (7:28)

Yeah, it's a small publishing house, a small pub house.

Renita Hora (7:31)

Okay. And how do you go about writing a middle grade biography of the Dead or of anyone? How do you put all of that together?

Michelle C. Hollow (7:39)

I'm a journalist, so I, like, approached it that way. And I thought I was going to do a chapter on everybody. My favorite chapter was interviewing Deadheads. I'm not a Deadhead. I respect them greatly. And they gave me the best information about how there could have been, like, 25 people in a small little room in Hotel 6, Motel 6, you know, to save money. And how they followed them, you know, from place to place across the country to go to all of their concerts. And I mean they had great stories so it's appropriate for the right for this middle grade age. But they shared a lot and that was fun for me to talk to them. I mean that's the best part about being a journalist.

Renita Hora (8:20)

Amazing. I've got to read that. I'm dying to read that. Not that I'm not interested in the books about wildlife and animals, of course I am. But this, I'm also a journalist, so this is a very interesting piece of it reminds me of that movie. What was the movie about? Oh gosh, of course. I can't think of it. Jesse plays he the character and he follows the band around on a bus. Anyway, today though, you're gonna read something from another middle grade book. But this is fiction, if I am getting it right. It's called Jurassic Girl, Is that right?

Michelle C. Hollow (8:55)

Okay, yes, but I do wanna clarify something. It is fictionalized. When I first learned about Mary Anning, I was fascinated because here's this 12 year old girl makes this amazing fossil find. And the men at the Geological Society, because back then, paleontology, this was in 1811 when she was 12. Paleontology wasn't a word then, but a lot of people where she lived in the town of Lyme Regis in the uk. There were a lot of fossils there. It's a seaside town.

Renita Hora (9:25)

And when was this?

Michelle C. Hollow (9:26)

This was in 1811 when Mary made the discovery.

Renita Hora (9:28)

18 delivery.

Michelle C. Hollow (9:29)

Okay. But Mary was poor, she was female, she was 12 years old. She was self educated because back then you had to have money to go to school. So how is it possible that this girl could have done what she said she did? So a lot of the men in the Geological Society just dismissed her and didn't believe her. And she triumphed, she persisted. And that's what got me into the story. So the thing is, when I interview somebody, if I'm doing a story now, I can call you and say, here's my questions, can you answer them? I cannot time travel back to 1811. So everything in the book except the dialogue and one or two characters to move the story along is true. Mary did make this discovery. It's about her family, it's about the floods in her house. She lived in the poor section closer to the ocean and her house did flood. I mean like badly. They had to escape through the top windows. There was a lot. And I've read some biographies about her, biographies for adult readership. But there was no Dialogue. And I thought I was interested in the story. I think kids would be interested. That was my take.

Renita Hora (10:45)

So I couldn't agree with you more. I've just released a book, also historical fiction. And the dialogue is always a challenge because you weren't there in the room when it happened. But sort of recreating a story through dialogue I think is so much more interesting, at least to me and I think to readers, than sort of a third person. This happened.

Michelle C. Hollow (11:05)

That happened.

Renita Hora (11:05)

This person. So I couldn't agree with you more. I have to ask, how did you chance upon Marianning and how did you research her life and sort. You mentioned biographies, but were there other sources?

Michelle C. Hollow (11:20)

Yes. As a journalist, I am pretty confident in my research skills. I feel very comfortable with that. The writing takes a bit more work for me. But I found out about her. I was actually blogging for a while about animals and somebody mentioned Marianning. Out of the blue she found an ichthyosaurus, which is a fish like lizard. So it's not an animal of today. But I was intrigued. So I did some research and I found out she lived in Lyme Regis. I read the Fossil Hunter by Sherry Emeling, I believe, and that just made me want to do more research. And I looked up Lyme Regis. You know, you could Google anything today, pretty much. And at the Lyme Regis Museum there's a Marianning wing. So it was actually the Marianning wing is fairly new. It's about three years old. And it has part of the ichthyosaurus that she found. It has some of her other finds. And I was going back and forth through email with one of the researchers there who was kind enough to answer my questions.

Renita Hora (12:24)

Got it. And just out of curiosity, when was the word paleontology coined?

Michelle C. Hollow (12:30)

It was. I'm not 100% sure. We had geology, so it probably was in the later 1800s.

Renita Hora (12:37)

Ah, okay. So she just missed it.

Michelle C. Hollow (12:40)

Yes.

Renita Hora (12:41)

Okay. So Jurassic Girl comes out. When and where can our readers look for it?

Michelle C. Hollow (12:48)

It's from Ulysses Press and It comes out September 10th. And you can go pretty much anywhere where you buy books. I know it's on at the Barnes and Noble website. I'm partial to bookshop.org they support a lot of bookstores in their neighborhood. So I just bought a really good book Right now. It's Lulu Dean's little library of banned books. Everybody should read this book. I'm only a third the way through. But a portion of the proceeds from the book will go to some of the local bookstores where I near where I Live so I like them. So but if you want to buy it on Amazon please do. Okay.

Renita Hora (13:28)

Anyway you can buy books. Okay, so tell us a little bit about two things. Firstly what you are going to read.

Michelle C. Hollow (13:36)

And I have an excerpt from chapter five. I don't have the actual book yet. It has not come to me because it's September 10th but I should be getting it in about a month. So I pulled this from my website and this is a scene where Mary Anning meets goes to her friend Elizabeth Philpott's home for the very first time. She met Elizabeth on the beach. Not many girls back then fossil hunted. A lot of people did. But also consider what she was wearing. Those long dresses that go to your ankles, boots, a big bonnet and this could even be in the summer. So I don't like the heat. But anyway. And she would get mud in her boots, she'd get dirt in her fingernails. She was by the sea and it was kind of dangerous too because the sea changes and then there's the cliffs. And I got very fortunate. I have a cousin who just who's been living in the UK and she went to the museum for me and took a picture of the cliffs. I had no idea that it was that huge. I mean it's tremendous because fossils were and are still. You can go to Lyme Regis now and fossil hunt so you'll probably find ammonites, small little fossils. They're also called like they're snake like coils. They have the ridges on them. So I'm going to read the first part of chapter five where Mary meets with goes to Elizabeth's home for the first time. And Elizabeth comes from a well to do family. She lives at the top of the hill. Mary had not. So this is the first time she's in Elizabeth's house.

Renita Hora (15:15)

Perfect in your hands.

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Renita Hora (16:20)

And now to the premise of the True Fiction Project, which of course is to create fiction out of non fiction.

Michelle C. Hollow (16:47)

Look at all these books. Mary exclaimed. And I see you have newsletters from the London Geological Society going back a number of years up to the present. When we first met, you mentioned all of the discoveries recorded in the newsletters focus only on what men found. Is that true? Not one mention of women's or girls contributions. That's true. Even though they don't see us as experts, we can still learn from the information in these newsletters. Well, we'll have to prove them wrong, mary said. Are you hungry? We can go into the kitchen and get some food and leave here. No, I never want to leave here. Let's get something to eat, Mary, and then you can explain What Mary really wanted to do was look through every book in the library. Her dog, Trey, stayed close until Elizabeth filled the bowl with chopped chicken meat and placed it on the tiled kitchen floor. Trey licked the bowl clean. I know you're eager to get back to the library, elizabeth said. I have an idea. She rummaged through the baskets, pulled out a few fossils, and placed them on a new she spread across the desk. I've been reading about these, elizabeth said. They're quite common and are found in many places throughout the world. I believe we have a lot of them here in Lyme Regis here, she said, pointing to an article in the newsletter. It says Georges Cuvier, head of the London Geological Society, believes fossils like these are millions of years old. Millions of years old? Mary repeated, her brown eyes widening. My papa taught me to close my eyes and try to imagine what these creatures look like when they were alive. I see them swimming in the ocean or crawling on land. To hold something in our hands that's millions of years old is remarkable. I never tire of it. You're the only girl I ever met who loves learning about fossils as much as I do, mary continued. So many people think I'm daft when I go on about them. Some even get mad at me because they think I'm lying. They think it's impossible anything would die out.

Renita Hora (19:04)

Michelle, thank you so much that is very intriguing. Cannot wait to hear more or read more. But Michelle, see Hollow look out for Jurassic Girl. It comes out September 10th. It's available at all of the bookstores. And Michelle, thank you for joining us on the True Fiction Project.

Michelle C. Hollow (19:23)

You're welcome. Thank you so much, Renita. I really appreciate this.

Renita Hora (19:27)

As do we. And tell our listeners real quick where they can find you online. Besides the bookshops, of course.

Michelle C. Hollow (19:35)

I do have a website. It's Michelle C. Hollow and it's Michelle with one L. And I've been doing a lot lately for Next Avenue. I took a little break from journalism to write the book and now I'm working on another one.

Renita Hora (19:49)

Fantastic. Well, we will have all of that information in the show Notes. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you everybody for tuning in to the True Fiction Project. I'm your host, Renita Hora. Here at the True Fiction Project, we are always looking for great stories that make for compelling fiction. So if you have a great story or know somebody who does, or if you are a writer who would like to contribute, then please do get in touch with us@renita.com contact.

True Fiction Project Narrator (20:26)

Thank you for listening to the True Fiction Project with Renita Hora. Be sure to subscribe to the newsletter to receive more inspiring stories showing how fiction is born from our everyday experiences. For more information, visit www.TrueFictionProject.com. Hey, Sal. Hank, what's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and It was so easy. 2 Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

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