A Line Crossed: The Political Assassination in Minnesota

Summary

Truer Crime: A Line Crossed – The Political Assassination in Minnesota

Host: Celisia Stanton | Season 2, Episode Release Date: June 20, 2025

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Truer Crime, host Celisia Stanton delves into a harrowing incident that shook Minnesota to its core—a calculated political assassination targeting state lawmakers. This detailed examination not only recounts the tragic events but also probes into the systemic issues that may have allowed such a tragedy to unfold.

Timeline of the Tragic Night

Early Hours: The Assassination Begins

At [01:54] minutes into the episode, Celisia introduces the audience to the harrowing events of that fateful Saturday morning in Champlin, Minnesota. A man named Vance Bolter, aged 57, disguised himself as a police officer and targeted the homes of state lawmakers. The first attack occurred at 2:00 AM when Bolter approached the home of State Senator John Hoffman and his wife Yvette. Initially claiming to be responding to a fabricated report of a shooting inside their home, his true intentions quickly became apparent when he began forcing entry, leading to a violent confrontation where both Senator Hoffman and his wife were shot multiple times.

Bolter didn't stop there. Within minutes, he proceeded to Maple Grove at 2:24 AM, targeting another lawmaker's residence, and then to New Hope at 2:36 AM, where he encountered State Senator Anne Rest. [Celisia Stanton, 09:37]

Escalation and Manhunt

Bolter's rampage continued as he reached Brooklyn Park by approximately 3:30 AM, attacking the home of State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark. Despite multiple law enforcement responses—over 100 officers and 20 SWAT teams involved—Bolter managed to evade capture for nearly two days. The manhunt culminated on Sunday night in Sibley County, where Bolter was apprehended without resistance after being tracked through a combination of trail cameras, drones, and local resident assistance.

Police Response and Critical Moments

Initial Response and Missed Opportunities

Olivia, Celisia's producer, provides an in-depth analysis of the police response at [06:11]. She highlights the complexities faced by law enforcement, especially given the interstate nature of Bolter's attacks across different municipalities, each with their own police jurisdictions. This fragmentation potentially hindered timely communication and coordination.

At [08:05], Olivia discusses a particularly pivotal moment when a real police officer encountered Bolter in Brooklyn Park. Despite recognizing the suspicious nature of Bolter’s disguise, Bolter did not respond, allowing the officer to retreat until backup arrived. Celisia reflects on the critical question: "Could this have been prevented?" ([07:45]).

Critical Intervention

Celisia emphasizes the significance of the police officer's intervention at Senator Anne Rest's home, stating, "She, the senator, said that the police check saved her life." [09:37]. This act of vigilance arguably prevented further loss of life, although questions remain about why Bolter wasn't intercepted earlier.

Community Impact and Personal Reflections

Fear and Unease

Both Celisia and Olivia share personal accounts of the community's reaction, highlighting a pervasive sense of fear and uncertainty. Celisia recounts receiving alarming texts and witnessing the community’s anxious response as the manhunt unfolded. Olivia echoes these sentiments, mentioning how even plans for local events were derailed by the looming threat ([22:00]).

Public Response and Protests

The episode discusses the conflicting responses from the community, particularly regarding protests like the "No Kings" movement. Celisia expresses concern over Bolter's presence at these events, fearing further violence. The resistance by thousands to heed governor advisories not to attend protests underscores the tension between public safety and civil liberties ([25:01]).

Interview with Brian Enten: On-the-Ground Perspectives

To provide a comprehensive view, Celisia interviews Brian Enten, a journalist from News Nation who covered the manhunt firsthand.

Covering the Manhunt

Brian describes the intense atmosphere in Sibley County during the manhunt:

“People were really nervous. They weren't able to go home because they had their streets closed... They saw him on a trail camera and he turned himself in.” ([33:32])

Critical Observations

Brian points out inconsistencies in the police response timeline and raises questions about Bolter’s ability to target multiple homes in quick succession:

“He went to four houses in total of lawmakers... It’s so sad. Like, her whole house is boarded up because... there were a ton of gunshots.” ([35:10])

Bolter’s Motives and Background

The discussion delves into Bolter's suspicious finances and personal life, including unanswered questions about his relationship with his wife and the disparity between his claimed income and his assets:

“He said he makes about $500 a week... he owns his home worth half a million dollars and has seven vehicles.” ([39:42])

Brian emphasizes the need for further investigation into these discrepancies to fully understand Bolter’s motives and planning.

Reflecting on Prevention and Systemic Issues

Could It Have Been Prevented?

Celisia and Olivia grapple with the troubling possibility of prevention. They consider whether systemic changes in police communication, particularly across jurisdictions, could have altered the outcome. Celisia poignantly states:

“Could we as a society, community build systems that could have prevented something like that?” ([20:00])

Cultural Factors and Ideologies

Olivia brings attention to the cultural and ideological underpinnings that may have driven Bolter to commit such acts of violence:

“What are the cultures that we're allowing and what are the cultures that are forming that are... justifying violence.” ([31:10])

Honoring the Victims and Moving Forward

Tributes and Calls to Action

In honoring the victims, Celisia shares a heartfelt statement from the Hortman's children, emphasizing gratitude towards law enforcement and proposing seven ways to honor their parents' legacy, such as planting trees, sharing joy, and standing up for justice and peace. This segment serves as a powerful call to the community to engage in meaningful actions that foster resilience and unity.

Conclusion

Celisia concludes the episode by reinforcing the importance of staying informed and proactive in preventing future tragedies. She urges listeners to engage with the ongoing developments of the case and support the Hortman family through a linked GoFundMe campaign.

“The best way to honor our parents’ memory is to do something... to make our community just a little better for someone else.” ([43:37])

Key Takeaways

• Tragic Events: Vance Bolter's calculated attacks on Minnesota lawmakers resulted in multiple casualties and spurred the largest manhunt in state history.

• Police Response: While law enforcement ultimately apprehended Bolter, questions about inter-jurisdictional communication and prevention remain.

• Community Impact: The incident sowed fear and uncertainty, highlighting the fragility of trust in public safety mechanisms.

• Systemic Reflection: The episode underscores the need for systemic changes and cultural introspection to prevent such tragedies.

Notable Quotes

• “Could we as a society, community build systems that could have prevented something like that?” — Celisia Stanton [20:00]

• “What are the cultures that we're allowing and what are the cultures that are forming that are...justifying violence.” — Olivia [31:10]

• “The best way to honor our parents’ memory is to do something... to make our community just a little better for someone else.” — Celisia Stanton [43:37]

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Supporting the Hortman Family

Celisia provides a link to a GoFundMe campaign to support the Hortman children as they navigate the aftermath of this unimaginable event, encouraging listeners to contribute and honor the victims through collective compassion and action.

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Stay connected with Celisia Stanton by following her on social media or subscribing to her weekly newsletter at [e-mail].

Transcript

[Celicia]

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[Celicia]

Foreign hi friends. Today's episode was not planned, but some things are just too urgent to ignore. As many of you probably know, on Saturday morning, in a quiet Minneapolis suburb, in fact the suburbs where I grew up, a man disguised himself as a police officer and showed up at lawmakers homes with a gun and and a hit list. He murdered State Representative Melissa Hortman and her husband, and he shot Senator John Hoffman and his wife. And he nearly reached my own childhood. State Senator Anne Rest what happened here in Minnesota is being called what it is, a political assassination. But as I've been processing it publicly, online, chatting with you all and also privately, what I keep coming back to is, could this have been prevented? And why is it so hard to even ask that question today? I thought it would be a good idea for my producer, Olivia and I to sit down for a conversation, to really go through what actually happened that night and to discuss why it's important to push past our discomfort to learn from tragedy.

[Brian Enten]

So.

[Celicia]

So let's get into it. Hi Olivia.

[Olivia]

Hi.

[Celicia]

You know, I really want to unpack this with you, and I was kind of thinking what makes sense is maybe we just start from the actual timeline of how everything went down early Saturday morning, because I feel like, there's just so much information. I don't know if this was your experience. As everything was unfolding constantly, new information was coming out, things were changing, and. And I just feel like it took me a while to like, really piece together. Okay, exactly. Here's what happened thing to thing to thing. And so I feel like that's kind of a good place for us to start. And I just want to give a disclaimer to all the listeners that the information that I'm going to be sharing is primarily coming from the New York Times. Some local reporting, but primarily the New York Times. And we are actually recording this right now at 4pm on Wednesday, June 18. So this is one of those stories where there's new information coming out constantly. So when you hear this, it's possible that we'll have some answers to some of the questions that we're going to chat through or that new reports will conflict with some of what we said. But I figure it just makes sense for us to talk about things as we know it right now and go from there. So why don't we start with the very first thing that we know that happens, which is 2am in Champlin, Minnesota, which is a suburb outside of the Twin Cities. And this man named vance bolter, he's 57 years old. He's disguised as a police officer. He kind of looks exactly like a police officer. I remember at one of the press conferences, the police said everyone would think he was one of us if he was in this room. Room right now, except for he had a mask on. And he goes to the home of State Senator John Hoffman and his wife, Yvette Hoffman. So he gets to their door and he starts banging on their door. And he's yelling and screaming, this is the police. Open the door. Obviously, if that happened to me, I would definitely be coming to the door. So that's exactly what happens to you. We know this is the middle of the night. Essentially, they go to the door and they start talking to him. And Vance Bolter tells them that he's here because there had been reports that there was a shooting inside their house. And obviously that's not true. That has not happened. So they're kind of confused by that. But they're talking to him and then they're starting to realize like something is not adding up about this guy. And they notice that he is wearing a mask. So they start shouting at him, you're not a cop. And knowing that the jig is kind of up at this point, Vance Bolter reportedly yells Back this is a robbery. And start trying to force his way into the home. Super nightmarish. Awful. The Senator at this point tries to shove Vance Bolter out the door. And in the process of that, he ends up shooting both Senators Hoffman and his wife Yvette. Both of them are shot multiple times. Thankfully, their daughter ends up calling 911. They're able to get care. They survived that attack and getting great care at the hospital. But that's kind of the opening thing that happens. And as those details are coming out, I found it really, really horrifying and scary to think about.

[Olivia]

Yeah, actually, I think the way that you framed it a couple days ago when we were talking about it was, like, really interesting. And you mentioned this, like, if someone who is a police officer, or you believe is a police officer, is pounding on your door, it kind of creates a tough situation to know what to do because, I mean, you don't have much option other than to answer it.

[Celicia]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

And also, I mean, in this case, it wasn't a police officer, and it had. It was someone with, like, much more nefarious intentions. Again, I just thought, like, the way that you kind of framed that of you don't have any option other than to answer elevates, like, just how horrifying this situation would be to have to, like, navigate.

[Celicia]

And one of the things I was thinking about when we were talking about this the other day was that, like, okay, I've heard about this story. If a police officer were to come and remember, you know, we're going to get to this. But he is not captured by police for a couple days. So he's kind of just on the run and hearing all of this information as somebody who's local, it's like, oh, my gosh, like, if someone were to show up at my door, bang at my door, ask me to open up and saying they were the police, I'm not opening it. Not once I know that I've heard this story. But then you got to wonder, you know, in those scenarios, it's like, well, well, what if it is the police? And then what if you've actually escalated this situation because now you're, like, resisting what their orders were, what they're asking of you. And so obviously, these are kind of niche scenarios. But I think, to me, it just highlighted this idea of, like, it's kind of scary to think that we can't tell the difference between somebody who says they're a police officer and who says they're not. This is something I was talking about. On social media, this case anyway. And somebody had commented on a post I had written and said like that they felt similarly about these sort of plainclothes ICE agents that have been out that it's a little bit alarming where someone could just go and say that the police say they're ICE and you know, you're expected to believe them. Our culture sort of relies on that trust. And yet clearly sometimes someone could be lying and it's scary to know that they could get away with that.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And in the case of a lot of these like plainclothes ICE officers, people ask for identification and not receive it, you know, and then are arrested. And like at that point they've escalated the situation.

[Celicia]

Right.

[Olivia]

Because they are, they're resisting and there's not a lot of recourse to really be able to ask those questions and really figure out what's going on.

[Celicia]

Yeah, exactly. And so like I said, obviously the Hoffman's end up getting medical attention, but Vance Bolter's really just getting started here. He leaves the Hoffman home and he actually drives to Maple Grove, which is a nearby town, and he gets there at 2:24am so as a reminder, this all started at 2:00am, it is now 2:24am not much time has passed and he arrives at the home of a second lawmaker. He goes up to the door, he basically does the same, same thing, he's banging on the door saying that he's the police, still in his disguise. Thankfully this lawmaker whose home he's at is on vacation. So no one answers and he ends up leaving. And when he leaves and this is information that came out later, we actually find out that he goes to a third home. And so he travels from Maple Grove, Minnesota to New Hope, Minnesota and he arrives there at 2:36am so that's just 12 minutes after he was at the doorstep of the last home and this new next home he's at. This third home he's at is the home of state Senator an rest. And for me, when I found this piece of information out, it was really unsettling to me. And this is another reason why I really wanted to talk to you about this story. Because this is where we grew up.

[Olivia]

Yeah, our high school was in New Hope. I think the thing that's really important for people who are not from Minnesota to understand about like a lot of these suburbs or towns that we're talking about, they're very, very first ranked suburbs of Minneapolis and they're all relatively small and very close together to be able to get one from the next. I mean, there's some parts, like, very close to where we grew up, where, like, you're in one city, you cross the street, you're in a different city, you drive a mile, you're in a third city. You know, like a lot of these, they function, I think, in this area a lot more like neighborhoods than distinct cities. They function like neighborhoods, but they actually are separate cities, which means that they have their own police departments, they have their own way of doing things. And so that kind of creates some complication in terms of being able to communicate one from another. And it's not that they don't communicate from each other. The different departments, different cities, police departments don't communicate. They do. But what can happen is Vance Bolter, this night, he's going from driving 5, 10 minutes, and now he's in a completely different police jurisdiction. And he's doing this over and over.

[Celicia]

And we don't really know because obviously information is still coming out. We don't really know if there are communication issues between these departments this night. But it's just something that I think definitely could have been at play because obviously that's just complicated when you're trying to communicate. It's not like, okay, this all happened in Minneapolis and it's one department. Yeah, I definitely think that's important context for people. But what's interesting is, despite the fact that he's jumping between cities, remarkably, somewhere along the way there's this idea that the police have, which is to dispatch officers to the homes of other state senators and representatives. After the Hoffman house was attacked, this idea comes up. And so what that means is that when Vance Bolter gets to the house of an arrest in New Hope and he's parked on her street, he runs into a police officer, a real police officer. And this police officer is only there because she was actually dispatched to Anw's house in order to check on her. And so they see each other. This police officer sees Bolter. She sees him in his car and she approaches him and she tries to talk to him. We don't know exactly what she tried to say. I would love to kind of know. I hope that information might come out. He doesn't respond to her. At least that's what reporting is saying right now, is that he doesn't respond to her. And she walks away. And she goes up to the house of Anne Rest and she waits until more officers arrive. And when more officers arrive, Bolter is gone. And, you know, for me, I think obviously it's Extremely important to acknowledge that the fact that this officer was there saved Anne Russ's life more than likely or at least saved her from grave injury. And she said as much herself. She, the senator said that that police check saved her life. She really credits it with protecting her that night. And I think that that is obviously so important to hold and acknowledge. And at the same time, this is really an area where I really hope that we as a community will be able to like, unpack a little bit more and discuss a little bit more. Because I'm wondering, like, you know, was there a bill, an ability to give this officer the information that, yeah, this person, this shooter is masquerading around as if he's a police officer, be on the lookout for that. Obviously, we don't know exactly why or if that information was communicated. Another thought that kind of pops into my head is like, she approaches him. What does she say to him? Is it super weird that he doesn't respond to her? Obviously, when you're just kind of reading information like we are, it seems odd. Like, it seems like, why would you go up to another police officer, they didn't respond to you, and you don't think anything is weird about it. And maybe she did. We don't know. But I would really have hoped that she maybe alerted police that there was kind of a strange situation. And so those are some of the questions that I have because I think that this is really an opportunity here where perhaps if something could have been communicated differently, if an idea had been had earlier that maybe he could have been stopped at an R house. And if that happened, then nobody dies night because unfortunately we know that he's going to go on to a fourth house. And so it's just something that I really can't get out of my head. And at that point that he leaves and Rest is safe, he heads off. Now he's headed to Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. And what's interesting, we don't know exactly what he's doing between the time that he's at an R house in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, but he gets to Brooklyn park to the house of Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark at 3:30am or maybe a little bit before 3:30am actually, that's 54 minutes after when he arrived at Anne Rest's house. So quite a lot of time has passed. We know that clearly there was an officer dispatched to Anne Rest's house. So I was kind of like, you know, you would think now retelling this story, maybe there's going to be Officers at the house of Melissa Hortman. And. And that's sort of what happens. Police officers do arrive to State Rep. Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark's house. But when they get there at 3:30, Vance Bolter is already there. But here's the thing. He is not inside the house. He has not fired any shots yet. He is outside the house, in front of the house. And we're talking about this story chronologically based on what we know now when the information was coming out. And we're all kind of just hearing it on our own as Minnesotans. People across the country are hearing it. What we had found out was somehow the police had gotten to the house of Melissa Hortman. But maybe it was like after he had already shot them that they were somehow responding to the fact that he had already shot them. But what we found out later is they arrive before he fires any shots into that home. And I think that that's just really one of those things that really shook me. I remember when I read it, my jaw was on the floor. And I feel like that's something I've been talking to people on social media about too, is like a similar feeling of just like, whoa. Like, I had no idea that he got there at that point.

[Olivia]

Yeah, well. And I think what's also really interesting, and I think you and I kind of came to this story a little bit differently in terms of the news we were exposed to and what we were reading to piece together the timeline. Because I remember the day, the morning, waking up and finding. And this was right after this happened, waking up to the news that Vance Bolter had shot four different people. And at this point we didn't know it was Vance Bolter, but that someone had shot four people, including a senator and a House representative. And every publication has their own version of the same, like, points. And I remember one point being that officers had arrived at the house and intercepted Bolter. It didn't necessarily say that they like, stopped him, but that's where he just took off. And what I remember reading at the time time was that it was kind of like framed as this sort of lucky break of an officer had heard of the first shooting and knew that Representative Fortman lived in a similar area and so went just kind of proactively to that house to just check on her. And again, it's framed as sort of this like, lucky interception. But what's so interesting and what I think has been like, kind of a difference between how you came to the story and me is like, once you add all of the details of the officers going to Senator Rest's house, as well as the house of the other representative who was out of town, it is now confusing in terms of were officers going around all the time, Were they going to, like, all these houses, or was it just kind of a lucky gut check that one officer had to go to this one house?

[Celicia]

One of the things that was confusing to me because you had mentioned to me that there was this. This particular officer that I know the Star to be reported about. I think maybe some other publication reported about that had this idea, okay, let's dispatch somebody to the Hortman's house. But I guess what was confusing to me is, okay, was that the same person who had the idea to send someone to Anne Rest's house? Because if that's the case, why is there an hour between when an officer gets to Anne Rest's house and when an officer gets the Hortman's house? Or are these two completely different officers who have these ideas to dispatch officers to these separate houses? And, like, that's why the timelines don't match up.

[Olivia]

And I think some of it is, again, we're getting into, like, the fact that these are different police departments, because I know that the one who went to Representative Portman's house was a Brooklyn park sergeant who had heard about the shooting in Champlin. And so it was like, you know, and all these places are near each other. We should be proactive on checking someone within Brooklyn Park. I don't know what the communication of, like, why people went to Anne Rest's house, but I do think that it's an interesting kind of tension, right? Or not tension, but, like, there's kind of. I feel like two different framings, right, of it. Was this a lucky interception? The cops were doing their job and trusted their gut and were able to intercept Bolter and start this manhunt, as opposed to him continuing to go from house to house. Or was it perhaps more of, like, a failed intervention of what you said? These cops arrived at the house before Senator Hortman and her husband were shot. And so why was them like. And if they were doing house checks, why was this not intercepted earlier? And ultimately, the answer is probably much more complicated than one choice between either lucky interception or failed intervention. But I do think there's, like, an interesting tension in terms of, like, the different framings that I have seen and the different feelings people have.

[Celicia]

And I think what happens next is something that probably a lot of people read about or heard about which is that these officers get to the house like we said. He, at that point, Vance Bolter has not entered the house. He's in front of the house. But then soon after they arrive, he starts firing into the home and runs inside. And those shots that he fires into the home are the shots that ultimately killed Melissa and Mark Hortman. And the shooter, Vance, ends up running out of the back door of the home. And I guess she, Melissa Hortman lived on a golf course. So he disappears into the course and that's what sets off this two day manhunt. And you know, I think there's been a little piece of information here and there that maybe these cops that arrived on the scene, maybe it was just two of them, and that they had started administering medical aid to Melissa and her husband. So maybe that's why they weren't able to catch him. But I think you have to wonder like, oh, like what if they had arrived five minutes earlier, you know what I mean? What if he had been intercepted at Anne Rest's house? You know, what if they had had more backup at Representative Portman's house and they had surrounded the house and he wouldn't have been able to escape. And I think all of these questions, I'm not raising them to be like hypercritical or always find an issue with the police or something like that. I think it, you know, it's easy to maybe feel that way, especially when it's like, well, you know, they, they, they maybe were doing the best they could do. I'm really raising these questions because I feel like, you know, these are our human lives that were lost to people. Right? And I think it's wonderful if lives were saved, but also lives were lost and if there were things that we could have done and it's as small as showing up a few minutes earlier. It's like I, it's hard for me to believe that we couldn't create systems for the future that hopefully could have prevented something like that.

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[Celicia]

Obviously everything that I've talked through is all stuff that we learned after the fact. You know, the information came out over the course of days. But for me, I really haven't been able to get out of my head how I first found out about the shootings. I'd gotten like this text at like 5 or 6 in the morning on Saturday and was told that a representative and a senator had been shot. And I remember I was like, I literally like vocally was like, what? Like, I just couldn't believe that, especially for like state government, that they would be targeted in this way. And so I like went and I googled it. And at that point in the morning there was maybe like one KSTP article which is like a local outlet, and it, you know, didn't have much information. And then, you know, not long after it started getting covered by the New York Times and it's all over the national news. And then we found out that sadly the Hortmans had died. And just for me, I felt like that whole weekend, and even just this whole week, I felt so uneasy. But especially when that manhunt was going on and we had no idea like where that man was. What was it like for you, like, when you found out and like how did you feel about it?

[Olivia]

So my mom had plans to go to the no Kings protest that day. And so I woke up to a text from her saying that she wasn't gonna go anymore because of the shooting. And she gave me a very high level Cliff Notes version of a representative and a senator were shot. And even like later I talked to her and she was just very shaken up by it. And I feel like a lot of people, especially just with that being so close. I mean, Brooklyn park, you and I grew up near there. And so that shooting is like so close still to like where my parents live and even close to where we Minneapolis in general. It just, it all feels very. The proximity feels unsettling. And I know my mom even like the way that she found out was her friends texting her kind of same thing of like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to go to this protest or, oh, I had plans to do this today. I don't know if I'm doing it anymore because I think a lot of people just felt a big feeling of just like uncertainty because it wasn't clear. I mean, it's a horrible tragedy that happened and, and especially immediately, we don't know why, we don't know who, we don't know where he is. And I think it just, it really, that whole day it felt like A lot of people, like, well, I don't. I don't know if I want to leave my house.

[Celicia]

It was on edge.

[Olivia]

Go there, you know.

[Celicia]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

And especially, I mean. Cause I know you have a. Well, one of our friends lives in Brooklyn Park.

[Celicia]

It was like a shelter in place kind of situation where she got an alert basically saying that there was this shooter on the loose. And, you know, that's super scary. I know. I read an article today about neighbors of the Hortmans and kind of how their area was so locked down and it was just really alarming to get that notification.

[Olivia]

And that kind of stuff continued while the manhunt was going on. Originally it was Brooklyn park, and then he's spotted in north Minneapolis. And then Maple Grove received a similar kind of like, I don't know if it was explicitly shelter in place, but similar kind of alerts that people are just getting on their phones of. There's a police search happening.

[Celicia]

Yeah. To the point of the protest, there was, you know, at some point, they end up getting into his car and kind of releasing that he had this stack of kind of flyer poster things that he had written on that had said no kings on them. And so Tim Walls, the governor, and you know, just other authorities were kind of saying, don't go, don't go. Because. And I remember thinking too, I'm like, well, okay, well, why would he have that in his car? It could be either because what is he trying to say that like. Like he's a. A supporter of that protest and therefore, you know, like, that's indication of his own political leanings. Is this because he's going to try to blend in? I mean, we already know he tried to pretend to be a cop. What's to stop him from bringing a sign to a protest and pretending that he's there as a protester? Is he going to open fire there? So I remember being really freaked out about that and being pretty shocked at thousands and thousands of people still showed up to that protest, even against the advisement of the, like, state authorities. And I think too, like, I remember, like, I walked to the grocery store that day and I was like, just thinking about how, like, yeah, he was just like you said, in north Minneapolis area, we go through all the. All the time, you know, area that my mom used to live in. We're on a little bit different area of Minneapolis, but it's like 10 minutes away. Like, it's not far at all. And just kind of knowing that, like, I was thinking too, I'm like, this guy has kind of nothing to lose at this point. Right. Like, he's already assassinated two people and like, tried to kill two others and others actually beyond that, but, like, shot two others. And so, like, this is probably not going to end well for him is kind of what I was thinking. And I was like, what's to stop him from just being like, you know what? I'm going out with a bang. And so I think that that was really, really just uneasy for all of us here locally. And, you know, like I. I mentioned, they did find that car and they end up finding a hat of his too. This is Sunday afternoon, and they found the hat, I believe, on this kind of like, remote stretch of road in Sibley county, which is like a pretty rural area. So everything so far that we've talked about has happened in the city and like, in the immediate first ring suburbs, that's a little bit farther out. And so then eventually they end up coming across to these notebooks he had. This is kind of early on they. They reported this and inside were this hit list, essentially a bunch of different targets, like 70 targets, including people like Ilhan Omar, a Minnesota, a representative in Congress, and Senator Amy Klobuchar. There was also people located in other states on the list, as well as, like, abortion clinics. And so, yeah, that's also just kind of crazy too. And like, community leaders, I think. I don't think it was just limited purely to, like, political figures, although, you know, they haven't announced everybody's name that was on that list. And so it's kind of one of those things too, where it's just like, okay, he could be out for anybody. And, you know, so it is a huge manhunt. There was actually more than 100 officers and 20 SWAT teams who were searching for him. And a officials actually told, you know, journalists that this was the largest manhunt in state history. So, I mean, I think that's a pretty, pretty wild thing to live through. And thankfully, he was captured on Sunday night and actually in a field near his home. It was kind of interesting. The they. When they were like, searching for him in this area, it's called Green Isle, which is another sort of rural area. It's about an hour southwest of where these shootings occurred nearby where he lived with his family. And so they're there, they're trying to like, scope him out. And this officer spots somebody like, running through the woods and they're like, like, oh, this might be Vance Bolter. And so a local resident actually captured him on a trail camera so that they were able to confirm, oh, it is Vance Bolter. They set up this perimeter. They used drones and dogs and basically tracked him. And when they found him, he was crawling through all these, like, thick brush and bushes. And then he was actually arrested without force, which is interesting. I would love to hear more details on that as that comes out as well. Because he was armed and he was taken into custody. I was kind of surprised, to be honest. I didn't think it was going to end like that for him. And now he's facing murder and stalking charges in federal and state court. And, you know, all of that we're gonna watch unfold over the next, you know, weeks and months. I think at the end of the day, one thing that I keep coming back to is that when we're kind of reflecting on all of this information, the police response and what all went down and how we ended up capturing him, I feel like the dominant response that I've seen has been like, that the police saved lives. And I think that's true. And of course, like, I want to believe that this is sort of these. The scenario that people think of when they think, oh, I. I hope that the police are going to protect me. But, you know, I just keep getting stuck on this idea that if a man visited four lawmakers home in one night and two people still ended up dead, this unfolded over 90 minutes. Was this preventable? And not in the sense of, like, did these individual officers, Are they bad? But in the sense of, like. Like, could we as a society, community build systems that could have prevented this, that could have allowed for something different to happen?

[Olivia]

And still, I think there's a lot of information we're still don't have in terms of even understanding what were the decisions made and what were the decisions that weren't made and how things could have been different to even have, like, a full. You know, and again, it's all very hypothetical, but like, a full conversation about how preventable this was.

[Celicia]

Yeah. And, you know, for me, I feel like, obviously there's a version of this story where Melissa Portman and her husband are both still alive. And I think that insofar as that's the case, we all, as a community, owe it to them to figure out and look into how that version. That world kind of slipped through our fingers. And I think, obviously, this is a really painful moment that we're in. And I get that. That it's comforting to be like, okay, listen, like, this is so great. It could have been so much worse. And all these Lives were saved. I think, please save the day. But I think that, like, part of honoring people who, you know, are taken in these just unspeakable ways is asking hard questions. And that's not disrespect. I feel like that's necessary. That is respect. That's showing care for the people in our communities.

[Olivia]

Yeah. And I think the other thing in. And this is a whole other conversation, but, like, in terms of prevention, too, is Vance Bolter was driven by a very particular ideology. And I think that, like, when we're talking about prevention, it's also, what are the cultures that we're allowing and what are the cultures that are forming that are, like, making it so that there are people that believe violence to this level is justified, that people believe that it is a. In some way in. Somewhere in Vance Poulter's mind, he thought it was justifiable to go to these representatives houses or the houses of abortion clinics or what have you and commit murder. And I think that in terms of prevention, too, it's also this bigger cultural conversation of why is it that there are people that come to that conclusion? What are the ideologies that are growing in this country that justify violence and that perpetuate violence Do.

[Celicia]

Yeah, agreed. Definitely. After Olivia and I's chat, I really felt like I still wanted to know more. I really wanted to bring in another perspective. And, you know, as Olivia and I were working on this episode, we kept circling back to all of these unanswered questions that we had about the timeline of. About the police response and just generally what we still didn't know about what was to come. So I decided to reach out to someone who was actually on the ground here in Minnesota reporting on this story in real time. Brian Enten. He's a journalist with News Nation, and he actually traveled to Minnesota to cover the shootings as they unfolded. We talked for a bit about what it was like covering this case up close and what he learned that the rest of us might not know yet? I hope that this conversation is a little bit more clarifying for you, just like it was for me. Hi, Brian. Thanks so much for joining. I'm really excited to kind of dive in and learn a little bit more about what it was like from your perspective actually being on the ground in Minnesota reporting on this manhunt and the chaos that unfolded after the assassination. And so I'm just kind of curious. I want to start a little bit broad and talk about what was it like for you actually covering this story up close from inside Minnesota, especially as somebody who's not from here.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, thanks for having me. It was pretty crazy. Like, I flew in on Saturday, you know, while the manhunt was happening. We went out to Sibley county, where they had sort of tracked him in that area near his house. They had the whole area shut down. There were emergency alerts going off on my cell phone, almost like when you get, like an Amber Alert or something, telling people to stay inside. People were really nervous. They weren't able to go home because they had their streets closed. Super rural area out there in Sibley county. And it was pretty obvious, I thought that they knew that he was right in that area. They had found his car there. And you could just tell, like, in the faces of the police officers. Like, it was really intense. Like, they knew that he was there. Basically, late that night, after the sun went down, they saw him on a trail camera. They had an infrared drone where they were able to track him. I think he was only about a mile from his house out there, just sort of hiding in the brush, and he turned himself in. And, yeah, it was crazy. You know, it was, like, crazy that it all sort of was coming to an end then.

[Celicia]

Yeah. And I know it was a relief for all Minnesotans, like, you know, that they had gotten him, especially because this had gone on for, like, more than a day. Right. It had been a couple days, the weekend. And, you know, I think during that time when the different information was coming out about the night of the assassination, new information was coming to light. And there's, I think, kind of a dominant narrative and an attention to the idea that police really saved lives here. But also, it seems that there's some lingering questions about how Vance Bolter was able to reach four different homes in one night. So I'm curious, from what you've learned, does anything, like, about the timeline of that night raise any red flags for you?

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is just hard to wrap your mind around the fact that he was in this fake police car and that he started out, I believe it was at Senator Hoffman's house. And we didn't know until after he was arrested and the affidavit came out when. When the feds charged him, that he had actually gone to two other lawmakers houses in addition to Senator Hoffman and Representative Hortman, that they just happened to not be home. So he went to four houses in total of lawmakers. And it sounds like, basically, after the first shooting at the state senator's house, police were going around to check on other Lawmakers in the area, and I think they had come across Belter, and one of the police officers just thought he was a cop in one instance, you know. Cause he had this police car, and, you know, just sort of seeing it from the distance in the night. And it wasn't until they finally got to Representative Hortman's house when there was this gunfight, and they realized, like, this isn't. You know, this isn't a real cop. This is a bad guy. And I was out at Representative Hortman's house, and, like, it's just. I don't know if you've seen any pictures or been out there, but it's so sad. Like, her whole house is boarded up because. And the whole outside is, like, shot up. Like, they. All the windows are shot out. There's even windows in the back of the house that are shot out. And I was interviewing one of the neighbors across the. I mean, it was just like a ton of gunshots because they were shooting at each other, Belter and the police. And so, yeah, her whole house is just like. It's crazy to see.

[Celicia]

Yeah. You know, obviously, we know now, like, you were saying that before he had gotten to Representative Hortman's house, that he was at Ann Rest's house, and that he'd had that interaction with that officer. And, you know, I believe I had read that that officer had attempted to talk to Bolter. Bolter didn't respond. And then, you know, she kind of continued on her way, doing what she was supposed to be there to do, which was to check on Anne Rest. Do you know whether or not that officer called that interaction in? If there were sort of, like, things that stood out to her about it being weird, or if there's any kind of internal review that they might do of that moment, I would think they'll.

[Brian Enten]

Go back and probably do some kind of internal review. But they were pretty. It was in one of the press conferences where they talked about that, and they just kept it pretty basic, saying that she had seen him. And I think there was just confusion that he may have actually been a real officer at that point. So, yeah, they haven't really elaborated much on that. But I know that the list, I think it was at least 40 names long with addresses of lawmakers. So you do have to think. I mean, if they hadn't stopped him at the representative's house when they had the shootout, you know, he was just gonna keep going down the list, it seems. And he had three AK47s in the car. There's Paris of those that I've seen that are in the affidavit. So, you know, he was. He had plenty of ammo. So could they have stopped it sooner? I mean, that would have been amazing if they had it. One of the houses where he. Where there was no lawmaker home. But still, the fact that they stopped it at the fourth house, I think saved a lot of lives, you know, Definitely.

[Celicia]

So I wanna kind of talk a little bit more about Vance Bolter and, like, kind of what we know so far about his motives. What do we know? What are we still unclear about?

[Brian Enten]

So there's a lot we're unclear about. I mean, it's mostly from our reporting where I work at NewsNation, it's mostly democratic lawmakers who were on the list, and it seems like he was targeting lawmakers who were pro choice. But beyond that, there's not. Not a ton of information out there about how long he had. Like, the timeline in terms of how long he had been planning it. They did release some pages from his notebook where it was handwritten, and you could see that he had Intellius and People Finder and, like, sites that you can use to research people's addresses and phone numbers. So he was clearly putting some work into sort of developing this plan and mapping it out, too, like to strategically get from house to house. His exact motive is still sort of a mystery, besides the fact that we have reported that it was. That it was lawmakers who were pro choice.

[Celicia]

And do we know anything about his wife? I know there's been a lot of chatter in the community online about the fact that, you know, his wife was stopped by police, but ultimately let go that he had maybe texted his wife to let her know that he had done something. What do you kind of know about that or her potential involvement?

[Brian Enten]

So he has a wife, I think he has, I think five kids. And she was pulled over the morning after the shooting, and she had three of the kids in the car with her. And she had a gun, she had ammunition, she had $10,000 in cash, and she had passports. And this was before he was caught. And that was, you know, we were reporting it, and this was during the manhunt. And it was obviously very suspicious at the time. Just like, was she trying. And she was. It was in the direction of Canada. And we were wondering, you know, is she involved or whatever. They never arrested her, though. They didn't detain her. Well, later, after the arrest, it came out she had let them go through her cell phone during that stop and There were several text messages. So there was a group chat with Belter and his family. They were all in one group chat. And he had sent to the group chat this text. It said, dad went to war last night. I don't want to say more because I don't want to implicate any. And then he also sent another text alluding to the fact that, you know, people would be coming to the house with guns and, you know, be on the lookout or something. So I don't know if perhaps that's why the wife was taking the kids and leaving. Like maybe like my husband has gone like crazy or something, maybe even scared of him. We don't know because she wasn't arrested. And there's also just a lot of unanswered questions about him and his relationship with her. Like, you know, he had this house out there near Sibley county, but then he also had this apartment in the city with this roommate and he would stay there a couple nights a week. There's a lot of strange questions that I still have about his finances. When I was in federal court as part of the proceeding, you know, they had to figure out if he qualified for a federal public defender. So they were asking about his finances and he said that he makes about $500 a week with this part time job that he has and that he kind of alluded to the fact that he didn't really have much money. He said he had 20 to 30,000 in savings, but that he owned his home which is worth about half a million dollars and he had seven vehicles. So like some, there's just a lot like, you know, if he doesn't, if he's saying he doesn't really have any money, but then how does he, how did he get the money to fully buy the home? They have all the kids and the wife, and he had to buy all these AK47s, which, all of the guns he had were expensive. So there's still a lot of kind of like missing pieces about him and his finances, his relationship with his wife. A lot that we still don't know.

[Celicia]

Yeah. So for you, from your perspective, what happens next in this case? What should people be kind of watching for in the coming days and weeks? Weeks?

[Brian Enten]

Well, you know, so it's now federal charges that, you know, they took over the case, the feds, which is a pretty big deal because it's now federal murder charge, federal stalking charges. You know, there's no death penalty at the state level in Minnesota, but there is a death penalty at the federal level. So he could be eligible for the death penalty. That's something that could be part of the whole case. So I think just keeping an eye on that as it moves through the federal system, there's going to be another court that date at the end of June. And I'm interested to see if he keeps the public defender, if they realize that he actually has like the money thing. I'm confused by like when he was saying he doesn't have any money, but he owns a fully paid for half a million dollar home and has seven vehicles. I'm interested to see how that all sort of sorts out. And then the other thing to keep an eye on is police have been very. And now that the feds, the FBI, when they gave their press conference, you know, they've been very clear that they don't think he had any help in terms of, of the shooting. And there wasn't any, they don't know of anyone yet that was working with him to actually commit the crimes. But they stopped short of saying whether there was anyone who helped him once he was on the run. So I am kind of curious to still see, like, is there a family member that ends up getting charged because he did have communication with family members, you know, after the shootings.

[Celicia]

Yeah. Well, I really appreciate your time and kind of giving me a little bit more insight into the case. And I think especially as it relates to kind of what to look out for next. I think that especially for Minnesotans that are listening to this, it's, you know, we're really still processing how do we continue to keep our community safe in the future. And just kind of knowing, you know, how things are going to proceed is super helpful, but thanks for your time.

[Brian Enten]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Celicia]

That was Brian Enten from News Nation and I am sorry, so grateful he took the time to share what he uncovered and what we might expect in the days ahead. All of us know that this story isn't over. And for me, part of honoring the people we've lost means staying curious. It means staying present and asking the questions that, you know, don't have easy answers, staying engaged right beyond when something is in the headlines. One of the things that I've been thinking about a lot too, is just all of the folks, folks kind of left behind in the wake of a tragedy like this. You know, I've had the children of the Hortman's front of mind. The Hortmans have two adult children and they put out this really beautiful statement just honoring their parents. And one of the things I do want to acknowledge that they mentioned was that they really took time to comment specifically on the law enforcement response. I'm going to read that to you. They said our family would like to thank law enforcement for their swift action, action that saved others and for the coordination across communities that led to the arrest of the man who murdered our parents. We especially would like to thank the officers who were first on the scene to our parents home and their heroic attempts to rescue our mom and dad. I am sure that more is going to come out in the days to come about, you know, exactly what kind of went on that night. And I really hope that the Hortman children are able to do what they can to find as we close. I really wanted to share another piece of their statement that I thought was really touching and it was really just a call to action for all of us about the ways that we could carry their parents legacy forward. And I feel like that is so resonant with what I always want to do on truer crime which is to push us towards actions. So I loved that they shared that with us because I think in the wake of a tragedy like this, people feel so helpless. They want to feel like what's something I can do. And so they shared seven ways to honor Mark and Melissa, their parents. And I'm going to read you that list. Plant a tree, visit a local park and make use of their amenities, especially a bike trail. Pet a dog. A golden retriever is ideal, but any will do. Tell your loved ones a cheesy dad joke and laugh about it. Bake something, bread for Mark or a cake for Melissa. And share it with others. Try a new hobby and enjoy learning something. Stand up for what you believe in, especially if that thing is justice and peace. Hope and resilience, they wrote, are the enemy of fear. Our parents live their lives with immense dedication to their fellow humans. This tragedy must become a moment for us to come together. Hold your loved ones a little closer. Love your neighbors. Treat each other with kindness and respect. The best way to honor our parents memory is to do something, whether big or small, to make our community just a little better for someone else. In the description of this episode, I'm going to link a GoFundMe that is currently raising funds to support the Hortman children as as they rebuild in the wake of just this unimaginable event. I hope that you'll visit it, read about their story and take some time to donate if you're able to. That's all I have to share with you. All today. I hope to be back in your feeds very soon with some updates about what's to come for the show. But of course, as always, if you want to keep up with me between seasons, you can follow me on social media. Alicia Stanton and you can sign up for my weekly newsletter [e-mail] thanks for listening.

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