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You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.
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Ready to level up? Chumba Casino is your playbook to fun. It's free to play with no purchase necessary. Enjoy hundreds of online social games like blackjack, slots and Solitaire anytime, anywhere with fresh releases every week. Whether you're at home or on the go. Let Chumba Casino bring the excitement to you. Plus, get free daily login bonuses and a free welcome bonus. Join now for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Play Chumba Casino today. No purchase necessary. VGW Group Void where prohibited by law 21/TNCs apply shocked today after an arrest in the infamous Gilgo beach murders the morning of July 14, 2023 is one I'll never forget the day they finally caught him. Lisk, the Long island serial killer. 59 year old Rex Heuerman from Long island is now charged in the murders of three women. Ten years earlier we had gone on our own hunt for Lisk and even though we didn't find him, I no idea how close we came. We're learning that Rex Heuermann may have called a documentary filmmaker. Were you at my house today? Yes, we're looking for you. It's not a good thing to do, but as we dug deeper, we discovered the hunt for a serial killer was only half the story. There is no other way to describe this except explosive. Former Suffolk County Chief of Police James Burke was put in handcuffs. Steve he's still denying the accusations. I'm Josh Zieman and this is Monster Hunting the Long Island Serial Killer. Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi friends. I am so excited to share this new episode of True or Crime with you. If you want to listen ad free and get early access to all the episodes for this month's case, you can subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. It's also one of the best ways to support the show.
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Please be aware that today's episode contains descriptions of violence. Please take care while listening.
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Five years had passed since Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba. Five years of false leads, revolving arrests and collapsing stories, but still no answers. Joran van der Sloot, the Dutch teenager last seen with her the night she disappeared, was a free man. And Natalie was still missing. But the story wasn't over because exactly five years to the day after Natalie disappeared, another young woman's life came to a violent end. And this time, there was a body. Her name was Stephanie Flores. Ramirez. She was 21, the only daughter in a family of sons and the pride of her father, Ricardo Flores, a well known businessman and former presidential candidate in Peru. Her brother Enrique later told CNN that the morning everything changed, his father called in a panic. Stephanie didn't come home. He told his son, help me. They started calling everyone, her friends, anyone who might have seen her. Nothing. Until police uncovered surveillance footage at a hotel in Lima. There was Stephanie sitting beside a young man. At first, Enrique said it was a relief she was alive, safe. Hotel staff told him that the man she'd been with seemed polite, handsome. He looked like Brad Pitt, one of them said. They gave Enrique the man's name, and so he and his wife did what anyone would do. They typed it into Google. And when the search results loaded, his wife screamed. The name was one the world already knew. Joran Van Der Sloot. An hour later, the police called the family. They'd found Stephanie's body. Joran's fingerprints were all over the room. And for the first time, there was no denying it. Five years after Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba, Joran Van Der Sloot had finally left behind something he couldn't explain away. And suddenly that old story, the one the world thought it already knew, was back in the headlines. Because if he'd done this once, he maybe he'd done it before. And maybe after all these years, the truth about Natalee Holloway was finally within reach. This is the story of Natalee Holloway, Part two. I'm Cecia Stanton and you're listening to Truer crime.
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With Stephanie's body discovered, the hunt for Euron was on. But to understand how we got here, how a young woman in Peru became the next chapter in this story, we have to go back back to the five years between Nataliese's appearance and Joran's final unraveling. In the last episode, we talked about everything that unfolded in the summer after Natalie went missing. How Joran and the Kalpoe brothers were the last people seen with her. And how the case had become this full blown media spectacle. But what we didn't talk about was what happened after. Because in the years that followed, Joran Van Der Sloot built a second life. Not as a charged suspect, but as a storyteller. A constant stream of contradictions, confessions and lies that kept Natalee's name alive in the press while dragging her family through hell. You might remember that right after Natalee vanished, Yaron told police that he and his friend Satish and Deepak Kalpo had dropped her off safely at her hotel. But later, under interrogation, that story shifted. Now, he said the Kalpos had dropped him and Natalie off at a beach, but where he'd eventually left her sitting in the sand. The Holloways didn't buy it. But without any real evidence, the case stalled. For Beth and Dave, that meant years of waiting and wondering, with no idea of what actually happened to their daughter. No charges were brought against the boys, and Natalie's case had remained a mystery. But by the spring of 2006, Joran was ready with another version of the story. In a long Fox News interview, he claimed that, yes, he'd lied before, but this time he was finally ready to tell the truth. He claimed that he and Natalie had kissed, talked and held hands on the beach. When he realized it was late, he said, and that he didn't have a condom. He told her they should go. She refused, so he left her there alone. That, Joran claimed, was the last time he ever saw her. But of course, it wasn't the last story he'd ever tell. Nearly two years later, Dutch crime reporter Peter de Vries secretly recorded Joran on camera. This time, Joran said that while they were sitting on the beach, Natalee suddenly went limp. She started shaking, convulsing. Panicked, he tried to figure out what was wrong, but she didn't respond. Instead of calling for help, though, he called a friend. Believing Natalie was dead, Joran said they took a boat out to sea and dumped her body just over a mile offshore. Beth and Dave told Dateline that watching that broadcast was one of the most painful moments since they first learned of Natalie's disappearance. I wanted to come to the TV and kill him. I wanted to peel his skin off his face, Beth admitted. But almost as soon as the footage aired, Joran appeared on another show, claiming he'd made the whole thing up, that he'd lied to Peter de Vries. That's what he wanted to hear, he said. So I told him what he wanted to hear. According to biography, an Aruban judge dismissed the so called confession. And at this point, who could blame them? Joran had built an entire reputation on lies. Over the next few years, he turned Natalee's disappearance into a performance. He told Fox News he'd sold Natalee into a sex trafficking ring and then called the network before the interview even aired to say it wasn't true. The next year, he confessed again to another Dutch outlet, this time claiming she'd fallen off a balcony while they were drinking and doing cocaine. When Joran went down to check on her, he said she was covered in blood. Fearing prosecution, he hid Natalie's body in a swamp. Investigators checked, of course, but none of it held up. The Aruban Justice Department called the story, quote, entirely unbelievable. But Euron's stories didn't need to seem believable, they just needed to be new. Every time he opened his mouth, headlines followed. And each time, Beth and Dave were forced to relive their worst nightmare to hear stories confirming their daughter was never coming home, only to find out that each confession was yet another lie. It's unclear how much money Yoan made from these interviews, but according to aol, there's evidence he was paid at least once. He'd found a way to profit emotionally, and maybe even financially from pain, and the media let him do it.
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We started this episode in 2010 with a murder in Peru and a name that the world already had heard. But just before Joran Van Der Sloot crossed paths with Stephanie Flores, he reached out to someone else. Natalee Holloway's family. After years of lies, Joran had finally decided he wanted to come clean. At least, that's what he said. Beth's lawyer, John Kelly, got the email first. Joran claimed he had nothing to hide, that he wanted to help bring the Holloway's closure. But there would be a price. He wanted 250,000.
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A quarter of a million dollars to tell a grieving mother where her daughter's body was. Beth gave John her blessing to meet with him. And when the two sat down in Aruba, Yaron started to talk. He hinted that he knew where Natalie's remains were buried. According to PBS, he said he'd give up the location for $25,000 up front. And the rest? Once Natalie's body was found, John and Beth went straight to the FBI, and together they built a sting operation. They had all of it. Hidden cameras, wired rooms, cash ready to hand over. If Joran took the bait, he could finally be charged. Not for murder, but maybe at least for extortion. And if he really was telling the truth, maybe Natalie could finally come home. This time, when John met with Yaron, he gave yet another story of that night. He said he'd been with Natalie on the beach. When she tried to stop him from leaving. He got angry, threw her back. Her head hit a rock. Blood pooled around her, and she died right there on the sand. It was the first time he'd ever admitted to killing her. Every other version had been an accident, an accidental fall or a seizure or a misunderstanding. But this time, he said the words himself. He'd caused her death. Natalie's body, Ron claimed, was buried in the gravel under the foundation of a nearby house that was under construction at the time of Natalie's death. Then he led John to the house. He pointed to the spot where he buried her. He was calm, certain. And once again, he was lying. Investigators checked the permits. The house wasn't built until after Natalie disappeared. Even after that, Joran kept in touch. He emailed John, promising to turn himself in soon. John waited. Then John told ABC News, the phone rang. I don't even know which reporter it was, called me and said, do you have any comment about Euron being the object of an international manhunt? I was like, what? It's five years to the day Natalee Holloway disappeared. Authorities say they believe Van Der Sloote has now fled Peru. He's the subject of an international manhunt the prime suspect in the brutal murder of another young woman. She was last seen in the early morning hours of Sunday, but turned up dead just this morning at a hotel in Peru. They're seen going into Van Der Sloot's hotel room. Four hours later, Van Der Sloot walks out alone. Flores body was found two days later, her neck broken. The same man who had just conned the Holloways was now wanted for murder. Five years to the day after Natalee Holloway disappeared, another young woman's life had ended. This time in a hotel room registered under Joran's name. Surveillance footage showed her entering Joran's room that night. Hours later, he walked out alone. He fled the country, crossing into Chile. But the chase didn't last long. He was captured, extradited, and brought back to Peru to face murder charges. Under questioning, Yaron told police that he and Stephanie had been playing online poker in his hotel room when a message popped up on screen. A threat from someone accusing him of killing Natalee Holloway. He claimed Stephanie saw it, panicked, hit him, and then he hit her back. Then he said he suffocated her. His lawyer blamed extreme psychological trauma from the Holloway case. But Joran pled guilty and was sentenced to 28 years prison in Peru. For Dave, Holloway, knowing that Joran was finally behind bars brought some relief. But it wasn't closure. Because the truth about what happened to Natalie, the real truth, it was still out of reach. Dave would later say that the uncertainty was unbearable. He'd reached a point where he couldn't live, suspended between hope and heartbreak. That's why he petitioned to have Natalie declared legally dead, a painful but necessary step toward accepting what he already believed. The judge granted his request. But for Beth, that ruling felt like giving up. Her attorney told reporters beth's life's work is helping other families of the missing. She would lose credibility with them if she gave up hope for her own daughter. That difference, faith versus finality, would come to define the Holloways long journey for justice.
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But even after years of searching, Dave never stopped hoping that his daughter might be found. His hope just looked a little different. Because for years, people kept coming forward claiming that they knew something, that they'd seen Natalie or heard a rumor or knew where she was. Dave told E. News that there was always a story and always a catch, that this person just needed help getting somewhere. Or maybe they needed a plane ticket or just some gas money, a few hundred dollars to fix their car. But whenever it came time to show proof, there never was any. No photos, no details that held up Just another dead end. Dave said that in the beginning, it happened almost every day. And years later, he still answered sometimes. Because what else could a father do? So when a man reached out in 2016 claiming to have information about Natalie's remains, Dave listened. He'd been through this before, but he couldn't ignore the chance, however slim, that this one might be real. He asked private investigator T.J. ward to help vet the lead. And before long, their search became the focus of an oxygen docuseries called the Disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The show followed Dave and TJ as they tracked a tip from a man named Gabriel who'd led them to his roommate, John Ludwig. John claimed that years earlier, Joran van Der Sloot had paid him $1,500 to dig up Natalie's remains and destroy them, crushing the bones, burning the skull, erasing every last trace of evidence. It was horrifying, and it was fiction. Aruban authorities quickly found the holes. The timeline didn't make sense. The location didn't match. And when Ludwig and Gabriel returned to Aruba on their own, digging up what they claimed were Natalie's bones, DNA testing told the truth. Most were animal remains. The single human fragment wasn't hers. TJ Ward later told E. News that he couldn't shake how wrong it felt watching a grieving father get pulled back into the spotlight by people chasing their own. Five minutes of fame. After more than a decade of searching, the Holloways still had no answers, only stories, Each one promising truth and then breaking their hearts over and over and over again. And, of course, living in that constant cycle of hope and heartbreak, it took a toll. Dave talked about how, in those early years, he lost sight of the people still with him. My advice, he told E. News, you've got to remember that your other children are hurting, too. You can't stay focused entirely on the missing. You gotta take care of the others. For the first five years, I missed out on that. With time, he shared, he found something closer to balance. His daughter Brooke reminded him so much of Natalie. The same drive, the same discipline, even the same smile. He knew the full truth of what happened might never come out. But he learned to live with that. And maybe that was its own kind of peace. Not the one he wanted, but the one he had. For a while, it seemed like that might be where the story ended. But the thing about stories like this is that they never really stay buried. Because even after nearly two decades of lies and scams and heartbreak, the story of Natalee Holloway wasn't finished yet.
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Like we talked about at the start of this episode. Back in 2010, just weeks before he murdered Stephanie Flores, Joran Van Der Sloot had conned Natalee's family one last time. He'd promised to lead them to her body for a $25,000 down payment, and the sting operation that followed would later form the foundation of an American case against him. That same year, a grand jury indicted Huron for extortion and wire fraud. For years, the charges sat dormant, but in 2023, the Peruvian government approved an extradition request, releasing Yaron temporarily from Peru to face the US Charges. At first he pled not guilty, but prosecutors made him an offer. If he told the truth about what happened to Natalie and passed a polygraph test, he'd serve no more than 20 years in prison concurrent with his current 28 year sentence in Peru. Yaron took the deal. And so, 18 years after Natalee Holloway vanished in Aruba, Joran sat in a room with prosecutors to tell one last story. He said that on the night Natalie disappeared, they were lying together on the beach, kissing. When she started to pull away, he said, he pushed harder. She kneed him in the crotch. In a flash of rage, he said, he kicked her in the face. Natalie fell, stopped moving. Euron said he stood over her, unsure if she was still breathing. And when she didn't move, he picked up a cinder block and brought it down across her face. He dragged her body across the sand and into the ocean until the water reached his knees. Then he pushed her out to sea and walked away.
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After 18 years, that was his story. No mystery or convenient accident. Just violence, cruelty and cowardice.
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For Natalie's family, this confession was the closest thing to closure they would ever get. Joran couldn't be charged for her murder. Aruba's statute of limitations had long since expired. But still, his confession gave Natalie's family a level of certainty they'd spent nearly two decades chasing. During her victim impact statement, Beth addressed Joran directly. Joran, she said, For 18 years, you have denied killing my daughter Natalie. Your lies, manipulation, taunting us with fake news interviews, and wild stories of what happened to her have caused indescribable pain and harm to my family and me. The grief I feel lives way deep down inside my soul. Natalie would be 36 years old now. I think about what kind of doctor she would have become. She would be married, have children, my grandchildren. But you destroyed all of this. You terminated her potential, her dreams and her possibilities when you bludgeoned her to death in 2005. You took away my son's big sister. You changed the course of our lives and turned them upside down. You are a murderer. Remember that. Every time the jail door slams shut, you're a killer. Then she looked at him one last time. By the way, she said quietly, you look like hell. You're on. I don't know how you're going to make it. Beth walked back to her seat, tears streaming down her face. Outside the courthouse, she spoke with reporters. I can tell you with certainty that after 18 years, Natalie's case, it's solved. As far as I'm concerned, it's over. It's over. Your Aun Van Der Sloot is no longer the suspect in my daughter's murder. He is the killer. Even with this confession, though, he can't be tried here for Natalie's murder. But I'm satisfied knowing Betty did it. He did it alone, and he disposed of her alone.
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In every story I tell, I'm struck by the profound inadequacy of justice. And hear me when I say that this is true in every single case. It doesn't matter how many resources a family receives, how much media attention a case commands, or how neatly a story seems to resolve. Justice always has its limits. And maybe Dave Holloway said it best. In a statement he wrote after Euron's sentencing, he reflected, I've been asked what I would consider to be justice for Natalie too many times to count. It's a question I have wrestled with during sleepless nights for almost two decades now. What I've come to realize is. Is the impossibility of having what this man took from us restored. And over time, I found some level of peace and acceptance of that reality.
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For the first time, the guessing was over. But when a story ends like this, I always find myself wondering about what happens after the cameras turn away, about what's left for the people who spent years living inside the world's gaze. Because justice, when it comes, doesn't erase the exposure. For families like the Holloways, the fight for truth becomes its own kind of wound, one that's played out in public and replayed endlessly and consumed by millions of people. And that's something I keep coming back to in my own work. What happens when personal pain becomes public property? When your grief turns into something for the rest of us to watch, analyze, and debate? For Beth and Dave Holloway, attention was this lifeline, and it was also this curse. It kept their daughter's name alive, yes, but it also kept their grief on display, and it kept the false leads coming, and it kept Euron's lies in the spotlight. Any family in this situation becomes a kind of mirror, reflecting people's own fears and judgments right back at them. And even the island of Aruba, a place that had nothing to do with Joran van der Sloot's actions, was recast as a villain because the narrative demands simplicity. You know, you need heroes, you need villains, you need innocence and guilt. But as I say, all of the time on true crime, the truth is always messier. And then, of course, there's the imbalance in coverage, the tension between who gets mourned and who gets forgotten. It's something that we talked about in Part one when we discussed Missing White Women Syndrome. And it's bias that leads to these inequities. Yes, but it's also business. These stories sell. They attract viewers and listeners, and listeners bring ad dollars. And the cycle just keeps on spinning. And this is the part where I want to be honest, because, you know, I feel that pressure, too. I know what it means to need visibility, to hope a story connects, that people click, that people listen, that they share. I'm not at a giant network. I don't have hundreds of thousands of people tuning into the show. I'm an independent creator. I'm trying to tell stories that matter. And yes, covering a case like Natalie's brings people in, but that visibility also gives us the chance to do something with it, to tell stories like Keith Lamar's, like Relisha Rudd's, like Jeannie Childs, stories that might otherwise be pushed to the margins. If you came here because of Natalie's story and stayed to hear the others, that's a beautiful thing, because at the heart of every case I tell is this same truth, that these people mattered. Natalie Holloway's life mattered not because she was beautiful or because her case was televised, but because she lived, because she was a daughter and a sister and a friend. That's what ties all of the stories on truer crime together. Natalie's case asks us to confront how media justice and power intertwine. But at its center is this young woman who didn't make it back to her family. So maybe the challenge for me, for you, for all of us who listen to stories like this, is to find another way to look at these cases. To listen with curiosity, but also to listen with care. To remember that behind every headline is a person who didn't choose to be the face of a phenomenon, someone whose story deserves more than just spectacle. Because in the end, what the Holloways wanted wasn't complicated. They wanted the truth. They wanted their daughter back. And 20 years later, that still the most important thing.
- [29:55]
Across the US Far too many families searching for their missing loved ones are met with silence or ignored altogether. For Indigenous women, the reality is devastating. Murder is the third leading cause of death for American Indian and Alaska Native women. Yet a study by the Urban Indian Health Institute found that more than 95% of the cases they reviewed involving missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls received no national or international media coverage. Most weren't even covered locally. Black families face similar disparities. Though black people make up 14% of the US population, they account for nearly 40% of all missing persons reports. Yet their stories rarely make headlines. These numbers aren't just statistics. They reflect which lives our systems prioritize and which they ignore. So today I want to highlight two organizations working to change that the first is the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center, a Native led organization fighting to end violence against Indigenous women and supporting families of the missing. They provide advocacy, legal resources and community based solutions to build safety and sovereignty in places where the system has failed. You can learn more or get involved@niwrc.org the second is the Black and Missing foundation, which works to close the racial gap in how missing persons cases are handled. They partner with families, law enforcement and the media to amplify stories that might otherwise go untold. Most recently, they released a documentary revisiting the case of Alicia Rudd, the eight year old who disappeared from Washington D.C. in 2014. It's called the Vanishing of Relisha Rudd A Cold Case Re Examined and it's available now on YouTube. It's a story we covered back in season one of True or Crime and the updates the foundation shares are well worth checking out. These organizations are doing the work that should already be done, helping families find their loved ones, demanding accountability and refusing to let the missing be forgotten. Visit both sides to learn more, share a case, volunteer or donate. Because True Crime shouldn't just tell stories about what's wrong, it should help make things right. You can keep up with Truer Crime on Instagram, x Threads and Bluesky TruerCrimePod and you can subscribe to our newsletter at truercrime.substack.com to stay up to date and if you want to follow along with me personally, I'm on Instagram and TikTok, Alicia Stanton and I write a weekly newsletter called Sincerely Celicia where I share recommendations, reflections and essays on politics, culture and life. You can read and subscribe@sincerelyicia.substack.com A full list of sources and action items from today's episode is available@truercrimepodcast.com.
- [32:43]
True Crime is created, hosted and written by me, Celicia Stanton, and is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Additional writing, research and production by Olivia Hussingfeld. Executive producers are myself, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Editing by Liam Luxon, artwork by Station 16, original music by Jay Ragsdale and makeup and vanity set mix by Dayton Cole. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, the Nord Group and the team at Odyssey. For more podcasts like Truer Crime, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at Tenderfoot tv. Thanks for listening.
- [33:38]
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of True Crime. If you want an ad free version of the show plus early access to every episode for this month's case and tons of other great Tenderfoot podcasts. You can subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. It's a small way to support the work, and it makes a big difference.
- [34:01]
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