Next on Truer Crime: 'If We Die, We Die'

Summary

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Truer Crime Episode: “If We Die, We Die” – Preview

Host: Celisia Stanton
Air Date: August 22, 2025
Episode Description: Sneak peek of the upcoming four-part series on Keith Lamar and the Lucasville prison riot, with an exploration into the complexities of crime narratives, survival, and what it means to be human on death row.

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Episode Overview

Celisia Stanton offers listeners a first listen to the next Truer Crime case: Keith Lamar and the 1993 Lucasville Prison Riot in Ohio, one of the deadliest prison uprisings in American history. The preview promises a nuanced look at truth, guilt, survival, humanity, and the complexity of the stories we tell about crime.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Keith Lamar’s Story and the Lucasville Riot

• Background: Keith Lamar has spent over 30 years on death row. The state accuses him of ordering killings during the riot.
  • [01:08] Celisia Stanton: “Keith Lamar has spent over 30 years waiting for the state of Ohio to kill him. They say he’s guilty of murders committed during the Lucasville prison riot… But what if the truth is more complicated than that?”
• Atmosphere of the Riot:
  • [00:55] Keith Lamar: “You know, it was dead bodies, one after another. We all understood standing there that one of those dead bodies could be ours.”
  • [01:05] Prisoner/Observer: “Everybody knew that… Everybody now understood.”
  • [01:34] Celisia Stanton: "Prison guards became hostages."

2. Tension, Solidarity, and the Stakes

• The Lived Reality of Incarceration and Uprising:
  • [01:36] Prisoner/Observer: “Everybody was just standing there, staring at this powder keg, wondering if it was going to explode.”
  • [01:43] Prisoner/Activist: “We are not going to bow down. We are not going to give up. We are going to remain, no matter what they put on us. If we die, we die.”
• Stanton’s Framing: Emphasizes the complex intersection of guilt, survival, and circumstance.
  • [01:54] Celisia Stanton: “This is a story about a riot, about power, about survival, and about the cost of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.”

3. Questions of Guilt and Truth

• Challenging the Official Narrative:
  • [02:03] Keith Lamar: “They said that? We’re not saying you killed anybody. We’re saying that you order deaths. All bullshit. All bullshit.”
• Broader Theme: The criminal justice system’s narratives are scrutinized, questioning what we “know” about guilt and innocence.

4. Humanity in Dehumanizing Circumstances

• Survival Beyond Physical Safety:
  • [02:13] Celisia Stanton: “But for Keith, survival meant more than fighting the state. It meant holding on to his humanity.”
  • [02:20] Keith Lamar: “Even talking about this stuff, it’s real emotional for me because this was the first real time that I felt really, really cared for as a human being by other prisoners.”
• What We Leave Behind: Examines legacy and meaning, even when every day is about survival.
  • [02:31] Celisia Stanton: “In this story, it’s not just about innocence. It’s about what we leave behind. Even when every day is spent waiting to die.”
  • [02:42] Prisoner/Observer: “It’s not just about getting off a death row. It’s also living my life. Because, I mean, I might die tonight in my sleep. And then what? What have you done with your life? If my whole life is just me fighting for this when and what portion can I point to and say, well, that’s where I was living?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the sense of imminent danger:
  • [00:55] Keith Lamar: “We all understood standing there that one of those dead bodies could be ours.”
• On resistance and defiance:
  • [01:43] Prisoner/Activist: “We are not going to bow down... If we die, we die.”
• On the fragility of life and the importance of more than just fighting for exoneration:
  • [02:42] Prisoner/Observer: “If my whole life is just me fighting for this, when and what portion can I point to and say, well, that’s where I was living?”
• On state accusations and personal truth:
  • [02:03] Keith Lamar: “They said that? We're not saying you killed anybody. We're saying that you order deaths. All bullshit. All bullshit.”

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Episode Structure and Timestamps

• Opening and Series Transition: [00:01–00:54]
  • Celisia Stanton wraps the previous series and introduces the preview.
• Lucasville Riot: Setting the Stage: [00:55–01:54]
  • Immersive quotes and testimony establish the narrative tension and stakes.
• Complexity of Survival and Story: [01:54–03:02]
  • Probing commentary on truth, survival, and humanity behind bars.
• End and Series Announcement: [03:02]
  • Stanton announces the official start: “Starting September 1st, I’m bringing you a four part series on Keith Lamar and the Lucasville Riot.”

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Closing

Celisia Stanton’s preview primes listeners for a story that questions official narratives and centers the lived humanity of those entangled in violence, justice, and survival. The series promises nuance, emotional depth, and an interrogation of what “true crime” really means.

Listen for the full series on September 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Foreign.

[Celisia Stanton]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. Hi, friends, it's Celicia. Now that we've wrapped up our series on Molly Tibbets, we're going to take the next week off to regroup before we dive into our September case. And in the meantime, I'd love for you to come hang out with us on Instagram at True Crime Pod. That's where we're sharing behind the scenes updates, sneak peeks, and honestly, it's just, just the best way for us to connect directly with you. We read all of our DMs and we love hearing your thoughts and questions. But speaking of sneak peeks, I cannot tell you how long I've been waiting to share our next case with you. No joke. I've spent four years working on different versions of this series and now it's finally ready. Here's a first. Listen.

[Keith Lamar]

You know, it was dead bodies, one after another. We all understood standing there that one of those dead bodies could be ours.

[Prisoner/Observer]

Everybody knew that.

[Keith Lamar]

Everybody now understood.

[Celisia Stanton]

Keith Lamar has spent over 30 years waiting for the state of Ohio to kill him. They say he's guilty of murders committed during the Lucasville prison riot, one of the deadliest uprisings in American history. But what if the truth is more complicated than that? There's word tonight of a prison riot at a maximum security prison in Southern Ohio.

[Keith Lamar]

Hundreds of prisoners took over part of the prison yesterday.

[Celisia Stanton]

Prison guards became hostages.

[Prisoner/Observer]

Everybody was just standing there, staring at this powder keg, wondering if it was going to explode.

[Prisoner/Activist]

We are not going to bow down. We are not going to give up. We are going to remain, no matter what they put on us. If we die, we die.

[Celisia Stanton]

This is a story about a riot, about power, about survival, and about the cost of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Keith Lamar]

They said that? We're not saying you killed anybody. We're saying that you order deaths. All bullshit. All bullshit.

[Celisia Stanton]

But for Keith, survival meant more than fighting the state. It meant holding on to his humanity.

[Keith Lamar]

Even talking about this stuff, it's real emotional for me because this was the first real time that I felt really, really cared for as a human being by other prisoners.

[Celisia Stanton]

In this story, it's not just about innocence. It's about what we leave behind. Even when every day is spent waiting to die.

[Prisoner/Observer]

It's not just about getting off a death row. It's also living my life. Because, I mean, I might die tonight in my sleep. And then what? What have you done with your life? If my whole life is just me fighting for this when and what portion can I point to and say, well, that's where I was living.

[Celisia Stanton]

I'm Celisia stanton and starting September 1st, I'm bringing you a four part series on Keith Lamar and the Lucasfilm Riot. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter bot. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping.

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

Oh come on.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

They called a truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool.

[Prisoner/Activist]

Whatever.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition.

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

Expedia Made to travel in March 2017, police in Ketchikan, Alaska got a worried.

[Prisoner/Observer]

Call and I haven't heard from them.

[Keith Lamar]

So I'm getting worried.

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

It was about a balloon loved surgeon, one of just two in town named Eric Garcia. When police officers arrived to check on the doctor, they found him dead on a couch.

[Keith Lamar]

Is it a suicide? Is it a murder? What is it?

[Podcast Host/Promoter]

From ABC Audio and 2020 Cold Blooded Mystery in Alaska is out now listen wherever you get your podcasts.