Death, Equity, and Inclusion

Summary

Trumpland with Alex Wagner: Episode Summary – "Death, Equity, and Inclusion"

Release Date: March 13, 2025

In the poignant episode titled "Death, Equity, and Inclusion", host Alex Wagner delves deep into the devastating impacts of environmental policies under the Trump administration, focusing on the beleaguered communities residing in Cancer Alley, Louisiana. This area, notorious for its high concentration of fossil fuel and petrochemical operations, has been grappling with severe health crises exacerbated by inadequate regulatory oversight.

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1. Cancer Alley: A Community Under Siege

The episode opens with Robert Taylor, an 84-year-old lifelong resident of Reserve, Louisiana, describing the deteriorating environmental conditions:

Robert Taylor [01:11]: "We're getting out into open space... but things don't exactly look right as if something happened here."

Reserve is situated along an 85-mile stretch dubbed Cancer Alley, home to approximately 200 petrochemical plants. A critical study by Human Rights Watch identifies it as the largest concentration of such facilities in the Western Hemisphere.

Sharon Levine, a local activist, shares the heart-wrenching toll on the community:

Sharon Levine [02:17]: "The rate of cancer, the rate of illnesses. My mother, my sisters, my next door neighbors, my friends from around, they are dying."

Taylor recounts the recent loss of his wife, a cancer survivor, whom he believes succumbed to prolonged chemical exposure from nearby plants.

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2. The Denka Lawsuit and Administration Changes

For decades, residents like Taylor have sought governmental intervention to address the rampant pollution. Progress was minimal until the Biden administration initiated significant actions in 2023, including a civil rights investigation into Louisiana's environmental agencies.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced new measures aimed at reducing pollution in communities of color, specifically targeting areas like Cancer Alley. This led to a federal lawsuit against Denka Performance Elastomer, a Japanese-owned plant formerly operated by DuPont, for excessive emissions of chloroprene—a likely carcinogen.

However, a dramatic policy shift occurred under the Trump administration. As reported by the New York Times [06:39], the administration decided to drop the lawsuit against Denka, dismissing it as lacking scientific and legal merit. Denka responded by asserting:

Denka Representative [06:58]: "No emergency can exist when the facility's emissions are at a historical low."

The Trump administration justified this rollback by labeling environmental justice efforts as "woke liberalism," aligning with broader deregulatory trends.

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3. Voices from Cancer Alley

The episode powerfully features Shamyra Levine Davy, Sharon Levine’s daughter, who personalizes the community's struggle:

Shamyra Levine Davy [13:03]: "It's environmental. I've lost everyone in my family because of it."

Residents express frustration over misguided suggestions to relocate, emphasizing their deep-rooted connections to the land:

Shamyra Levine Davy [18:23]: "We have a beautiful... home... If you want to buy it and move in, we'll leave. Move your family there or shut up."

Others highlight the historical exploitation of their land, with Denka's plant situated on former plantation grounds—a symbolic continuation of oppression:

Community Activist [19:12]: "They said, we're going to bring jobs in, so they thought it was okay. But here we are now, cancer-ridden, overburdened. Now they want us to leave."

The community's resilience shines through as they vow to continue their fight despite mounting challenges:

Shamyra Levine Davy [17:56]: "I'm not anti-industry. I want clean industry that's not killing us. Is that too much to ask?"

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4. Expert Insight with Heather McTeer Toney

The episode features an in-depth discussion with Heather McTeer Toney, former EPA regional administrator and Executive Director of Bloomberg Philanthropies' Beyond Petrochemicals Campaign. Toney provides a critical analysis of the Trump administration's environmental policies:

Toney [25:01]: "We are really debating whether or not we should have clean water, clean air, and clean land in this country... It should cause us all extreme concern."

Drawing parallels to overhauling critical safety measures like breathalyzers:

Toney [27:16]: "It's like getting rid of breathalyzers for drunk drivers. It sounds ridiculous, right?"

She underscores the universal implications of deregulating emissions, emphasizing that the impacts extend beyond marginalized communities to all Americans:

Toney [31:08]: "This is not just a problem that is impacting poor black and brown people in the South. It impacts all of us."

Toney highlights the historical exploitation of African American communities, connecting past injustices to present environmental neglect:

Toney [26:02]: "The lands that the plants overlap... is the exact footprint of plantations that enslave family members of people who are living there today."

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5. The Future of Environmental Justice

The episode contemplates the broader implications of dismantling environmental protections. Alex Wagner articulates the gravity of the situation:

Alex Wagner [25:41]: "We have to recognize what are going to be the societal impacts in the future if we allow this to go unchecked and unabated."

The conversation stresses the moral imperative to address environmental racism and prevent further degradation of vulnerable communities.

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6. Conclusion: The Fight Continues

As the episode concludes, the unwavering spirit of Cancer Alley's residents serves as a testament to their enduring fight for justice:

Community Activist [36:56]: "If our ancestors can make it through 400 years, then we can make it through the next four."

Alex Wagner reflects on the deep connections between the people and their land, emphasizing the hope that drives their persistent resistance against environmental exploitation.

Alex Wagner [33:08]: "Recognizing that gives hope for why this work is so important... if we don't stand up for what's happening, then my God, what happens to the rest of the world."

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Key Takeaways:

• Cancer Alley remains a symbol of environmental racism, where predominantly Black communities face disproportionate health risks due to petrochemical pollution.
• The Trump administration's rollback of environmental protections, particularly the cessation of the Denka lawsuit, poses significant threats to public health and environmental justice.
• Local activists like Sharon and Shamyra Levine Davy exemplify the resilience and determination of communities fighting against systemic neglect and corporate malfeasance.
• Heather McTeer Toney emphasizes the nationwide implications of deregulating environmental policies, drawing analogies to compromised public safety measures.
• The episode underscores the urgent need for comprehensive environmental reforms to protect vulnerable communities and ensure equitable access to clean air, water, and land.

Notable Quotes:

• Sharon Levine [02:17]: "The rate of cancer, the rate of illnesses... they are dying."
• Shamyra Levine Davy [13:03]: "I've lost everyone in my family because of it."
• Heather McTeer Toney [25:01]: "We are really debating whether or not we should have clean water, clean air, and clean land in this country... It should cause us all extreme concern."
• Community Activist [17:56]: "The irony of the situation is there are technologies that could make the plant safer... I want clean industry that's not killing us."
• Alex Wagner [27:16]: "It's like getting rid of breathalyzers for drunk drivers."

This episode of Trumpland offers a comprehensive and emotionally charged examination of the intersection between environmental policy, racial justice, and community resilience, providing listeners with a profound understanding of the ongoing struggles in Cancer Alley and the broader implications for environmental equity in the United States.

Transcript

[Alex Wagner]

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[Robert Taylor]

Does that sound crazy?

[Alex Wagner]

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[Heather McTeer Toney]

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[Robert Taylor]

I'm driving from New Orleans, heading in the direction of Baton Rouge. We're getting out into open space, crossing the bridge over Lake Pontchartrain, and the landscape is becoming a lot more rural. But the trees look sick, their tops have no leaves and the branches look withered. There's vegetation, there are even some cows, but things don't exactly look right as if something happened here. The first sign we're headed in the right direction, but also the first decidedly troubling sign is an air quality alert that pops up on the navigation screen in our rental car. It comes up the moment we enter Reserve, Louisiana, a small town of just under 10,000 people. The reason for this alert is not exactly a mystery. Reserve is one of several towns on an 85 mile stretch of land shared by roughly 200 fossil fuel and petrochemical operations. According to a major study from Human Rights Watch, this is the largest concentration of plants of that nature in the Western hemisphere. The locals have a nickname for this area.

[Sharon Levine]

The area we in now. Cancer Alley.

[Robert Taylor]

Cancer Alley. Robert Taylor is an 84 year old lifelong resident of this area. He's who I'm meeting today.

[Sharon Levine]

The rate of cancer, the rate of illnesses. My mother, my sisters, my next door neighbors, my friends from around, they are dying.

[Robert Taylor]

Taylor's wife died a few months ago. She was a cancer survivor and while he can't say for sure that her illness was due to the plants nearby, he believes that prolonged exposure to chemicals and toxins in the air contributed to her death.

[Sharon Levine]

She suffered terribly.

[Robert Taylor]

I tried.

[Sharon Levine]

We relocated. I got her out of we built us a fine home together when we got married, thinking we got leaving a legacy for our children Isn't that not safe in that home?

[Robert Taylor]

Residents like Taylor have been pushing for decades to get someone to help the majority black towns and parishes in cancer. Local government, state government, federal government, literally anyone who would listen. Progress had been slow, but during the Biden administration, there were finally some signs that the federal government wanted to help.

[Alex Wagner]

The EPA has just announced a number.

[Robert Taylor]

Of new actions dedicated to curbing pollution in communities of color, including there in Canter alley. That was 2023, the year before President Biden initiated a sweeping and previously unheard of civil rights investigation looking at the Louisiana agencies that allowed oil and chemical plants to proliferate in majority black communities, including Cancer Alley. Taylor took me to a spot that had become a focus of his efforts and that the EPA had paid some attention to. A low slung brick building with a parking lot full of cars. Okay, so this is the elementary school. And where's the plant?

[Sharon Levine]

It's right above those trees.

[Robert Taylor]

It's right there.

[Sharon Levine]

Yeah.

[Robert Taylor]

So the school is literally next to the plant.

[Sharon Levine]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They built that plant right almost on top of us.

[Robert Taylor]

The school was Fifth Ward elementary, an historically black school where Taylor attended high school back in the 1950s, before it became an elementary school during desegregation, the plant used to be owned by chemical giant DuPont, which opened it in 1968. It's currently owned by the Japanese company Denka. That's where the company makes synthetic rubber, or neoprene. It's a material that's found in everything from wetsuits to laptop sleeves to electrical wiring. Making neoprene requires the use of the chemical chloroprene, which the EPA has stated is likely carcinogenic.

[Sharon Levine]

We found out, according to epa, the information they brought to us, that these children that they were being exposed to 400 to 700 times what EPA says is a safe level of exposure to this carcinogenic chemical, chloroprene.

[Robert Taylor]

The children, Denka has maintained that they are not breaking any laws and their emissions are not putting people at a higher risk of cancer. But activists like Taylor, along with the national media, spurred the EPA into doing something. In 2023, we first reported on the.

[Alex Wagner]

Fifth Ward Elementary School in Reserve, Louisiana, located next to a plant emitting what.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

The EPA has long said was a.

[Alex Wagner]

Likely carcinogen but a glimmer of hope.

[Robert Taylor]

Just as we're packing up to leave.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

The EPA sent us an email. They decided to file a lawsuit in federal court to require Danka to significantly reduce hazardous chloropine emissions from its neoprene manufacturing facility.

[Robert Taylor]

The lawsuit Alleged, quote, the thousands of people breathing this air are incurring a significantly higher cancer risk than would be typically allowed, and they are being exposed to a much greater cancer risk from Denca's air pollution than the majority of United States residents face. According to the epa, the top five census tracts with the highest estimated cancer risk are all in the state of Louisiana because of the Denga facility's chloroprene emissions. So this lawsuit was a significant step. More than anything, it was a sign that the federal government understood the very real, very ongoing threats to this community. That is until last Friday.

[Alex Wagner]

The Trump administration plans to drop a federal lawsuit against the Louisiana petrochemical plant. The Denka Performance Elastomer plant is accused of worsening cancer risks. The Biden administration sued the ap Sources say court action is expected in the coming days.

[Robert Taylor]

Denka representatives told the Washington Post last week that the decision represented a long overdue and appropriate end to a case lacking scientific and legal merit. From the start, the company added that it was still committed to reducing chloroprene emissions at the facility. For the Trump administration, the choice to drop this landmark lawsuit wasn't just an extension of the President's attack on environmentalists and the epa. All part of the so called climate change hoax. The Justice Department also cited compliance with Trump's executive order on DEI programs, indicating that trying to protect people, especially people of color, from harmful, deadly polluters was a form of woke liberalism that had to be stopped.

[Sharon Levine]

The whole DEI force or whatever that kind of craziness is, I don't get where they're coming from with the DEI thing, whether it was a black school or not.

[Robert Taylor]

But it sounds like because it's black and brown people and it would be the government acting on their behalf to make sure they're not disproportionately punished by polluters, that somehow that's a radical leftist agenda.

[Sharon Levine]

Yeah, that's right. But that is a result of a radical rightist agenda. See, that's them. I don't know how they can twist up the facts and the reality. How can they take us off point?

[Robert Taylor]

But the end of this lawsuit against Denka is apparently just the beginning of a broader plan from the Trump administration. Because later this same day we got another announcement. The New York Times reported that an internal memo from Lee Zeldin, who now heads the EPA, was ordering the agency to eliminate the 11 environmental justice offices. These offices and their staff focus on disproportionate and deadly pollution in poor communities all across the country. Most of them black and brown. Once again, it seemed that for President Trump, clean air is dei. And then, just before we finish taping this week's episode, we got another huge announcement from the EPA today.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

I'm pleased to make the largest deregulatory announcement in US History. Today, the green New scam ends. As the EPA does its part to usher in the golden age of American success.

[Robert Taylor]

Zeldin announced 31 actions to dramatically roll back energy regulations on things like climate change policies, electric vehicles and coal power. What do you think is going to happen under Trump with the Danka plant and all these other industrial plants in your neighborhood?

[Sharon Levine]

Well, I don't know. That's going to depend largely on the people here.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah.

[Sharon Levine]

If we let them have their way, they will kill us all. We will die here.

[Robert Taylor]

On this episode of Trumpland with Alex Wagner. We're down in Louisiana on Cancer Alley speaking with the people directly in harm's way.

[Community Activist]

It hurts me to hear us pleading and giving our hearts and saying, hey, what about us? They do not care. It's about what they can make money off of.

[Robert Taylor]

As the Trump administration rolls back environmental protections and progress that has been decades in the making.

[Alex Wagner]

You don't need science to tell you and confirm that people have died. We can look in the cemeteries and we can see at the funerals. And we understand with the number of people who are coming through health clinics.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

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[Alex Wagner]

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[Heather McTeer Toney]

Today, MSNBC presents Main Justice. Each week on their podcast, veteran lawyers Andrew Weissman and Mary McCord break down the latest developments inside the Trump Admin Department of Justice.

[Robert Taylor]

The administration doesn't necessarily want to be questioned on any of its Policy.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

I think what we are seeing is Project 2025 in action. This is it coming to fruition. Main Justice. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple podcasts for ad free listening and bonus content.

[Robert Taylor]

There's a term to describe areas like Cancer Alley. Geographic areas dominated by industry for so called development, but development that ultimately leads to widespread pollution and environmental harm. The United nations and environmental activists call those places sacrifice zones. And here in Reserve, Louisiana, I visited Chapatoula's church to talk about life in this particular sacrifice zone. Now, we should say it is very difficult for anyone to know with certainty what caused any particular illness in this community. But what you'll hear is what this community believes has been happening to them. How many of you feel like you know people, either in your family or your circle of friends, who are suffering adverse health effects because of the proximity of this plant? The eight people seated before me all raised their hands.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

So everybody, my dad and I have.

[Alex Wagner]

Experienced several generations of illnesses. My mother died of breast cancer, my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer, and my grandmother died of breast cancer.

[Robert Taylor]

Wow.

[Alex Wagner]

So we are directly affected in this community. I've also had genetic testing for breast cancer. My mother, my sister and myself. And all of them came back negative.

[Robert Taylor]

Wow. So it's not. You're carrying a gene.

[Alex Wagner]

Correct.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

It's environmental. I've lost everyone in my family because of it.

[Robert Taylor]

You've lost everyone in your family?

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

Everybody. And I'm the oldest living relative on my father's side at the age of 67. I remember growing up on East 30th Street.

[Alex Wagner]

And you remember the days we could.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

Sleep with our windows open? Well, a lot of mornings we woke up with this awful smell in the house. We didn't know what it was. We didn't know what chemical we were breathing while we were sleeping. We smelled that all day long. We went to school with it on our uniforms.

[Robert Taylor]

Can I ask, when you say you lost everybody in your family cancers, was it all cancers? Cancers, everyone.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

Yes.

[Local Resident]

EPA came in and told us in 2015 that Denka was releasing a chemical called chloroprene into the air. And the state health director came down to the local government to tell us that no one should be breathing chloropream at any level. We do have a severe problem that needs to be addressed within this community and we don't have much time.

[Robert Taylor]

During the first Trump administration, the EPA came down here and said, these are unsafe levels of chloroprene. Then Biden comes into office and his EPA head, Michael Regan, I Think came here. Is that right? Yeah.

[Local Resident]

Yes.

[Robert Taylor]

What was that like when he came down here and said, I'm gonna check out what's happening in St. John's it.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

Was a great relief.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah. Tell me more about that.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

Well, they gave my dad a call and said they wanted to come out and speak with the community. They knew that we had the highest risk of cancer in the United States. So he walked with my dad in the community. He walked through the neighborhoods. He made a promise to my dad that things were gonna be taken care of.

[Robert Taylor]

Have you guys heard that term sacrifice zone?

[Alex Wagner]

Oh, yes.

[Robert Taylor]

I mean, what does it tell you? That the community in which you live, which has been your community much longer than it's been dupont and Danka's community, has been deemed in certain circles to be a sacrificial zone. That your collateral damage, effectively that this present administration has rode into office, dismantled, the entire environmental justice division of the EPA is dropping this lawsuit has signaled that the health and well being of black and brown communities is not top.

[Local Resident]

Of mind, evil, strictly evil greed. It's all about money.

[Alex Wagner]

Right now I would like to say to them, what if it was your grandmother and your mother and your sister and so many other family members and friends in the community.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

When you watch them take their last breath, if it was your family member.

[Alex Wagner]

How would you feel on the other side?

[Robert Taylor]

We live in an information divide that falls along political lines. And if this administration says enough times this community's fine, this cancer stuff, that's all in their heads, that's a numbers problem that isn't real. If they say it enough and they say the plant is safe, stop worrying about the emissions, it's fine. Part of me wonders whether they can actually succeed in convincing some number of people that yeah, everything's fine, stop worrying about it.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

The scientific evidence corroborates that it is happening to us. Yet we sitting back and letting other people tell us it doesn't exist. There's a lot of people here who believe in what we saying, but everybody's not going to take a stand. Maybe it's 100 people locally that might agree and take a stand on it. But some people just sit back complacently and just don't do anything. I don't understand it. There are people who are elected local officials who grew up here and they have cancer in their families, but they ignoring it. Why? I don't have the clue. Cause I'm not the one. I'm known to say what I have to say because I'm a part of this community. But they got tired because nothing has been done about it. So that's what's going on.

[Robert Taylor]

It sounds like there's an enormous amount of pressure to stay quiet. Right? You guys are out here and talking to the press because you believe that your voices matter and you're courageous to stand up and say, you can't do this in my backyard. Are you worried that it's going to get harder and harder to do that with this current government that we have?

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

It's always been hard. This man is diabolically just eliminating everything that was set to protect us, to protect our air. We are burying family members every week. People are suffering 20 and 30 years before they pass. That's real. That's real. We live a life every day wondering what's going to happen at our next doctor's visit. That's how we live.

[Local Resident]

We're going to continue to speak up, continue to follow science, and continue to expose the negligence and the stupidity that's here within these chemical cars that we have.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

The irony of the situation is there are technologies that could make the plant safer. I'm not anti industry. I want all the industry I can have, but I want clean industry. If there's technology that can do that, and if it's costly, too bad. Our lives are costly. I am not anti industry. My people worked in the industry, et cetera. I want clean industry that's not killing us. Is that too much to ask?

[Robert Taylor]

What about people who say, well, if you don't like it, just move. Why are you still there?

[Local Resident]

Most people have family members that are here.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

Biggest thing, your family is here.

[Local Resident]

Been over here for over 200 years. Generation.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

Our family lives here.

[Sharon Levine]

You know, that's insulting to me. For somebody to say to me, well, hey, this plant want this place. You get on up out of here. You. Besides that, my fight with this is that house is dangerous. What family would I want to put in that house that I myself don't want to live in?

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

We have a beautiful 4,500 square foot, seven bedroom, four bathroom, two car garage, home, two driveways. If you want to buy it and move in, we'll leave. Move your family there or shut up.

[Robert Taylor]

I'm so struck by the fact that the dengka dupont plant is on the grounds of a former plantation. I mean, obviously plantations we hold in our memory as one of the most traumatizing, deadly institutions in America. And now you have a plant on the same patch of grass. I just can't get past the irony of that.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

We meant nothing then and we mean nothing now.

[Community Activist]

I think Trump is doing exactly what Trump said he was going to do.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah.

[Community Activist]

So it's not surprising. And I don't think we have enough money here for him to care about what's going on with us. He cares about the wealthy people. And if there was some way that we could make money off environmental justice for him, he would prioritize it. But it's actually conflicting with the money that he's making. So that's a thorn in his side. Like the energy chief Chris Wright said that environmental justice is a side effect of modern business in the economy. So it hurts me to hear us pleading and giving our hearts and saying, hey, what about us? We're dying. Watching my family members die and knowing that it's not being heard by this administration. They do not care. It's about what they can make money off of. We all are entitled to clean air. But if he make enough money, he'll overlook it.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

The more you know, the harder it is to just go through your life, your daily life. I love flowers. I love my yard and to go out and prune my bushes and everything is supposed to make me feel all good inside. And then you'll just get this thought. How much chloroprene is being admitted right now, how much poison is in the air?

[Local Resident]

And when you wake up in the morning, it's not just about yourself. It's probably too late for all of us on this panel right now. We've been exposing level of chemicals we've been exposed to, but it didn't happen overnight. I worry about the next generation. What will the history book show? Our grandkids and the younger kids live in this community. People are dying people. Funerals every week. Sometimes we go to three funerals in one day. Pretty much three times a month.

[Community Activist]

No.

[Local Resident]

So the alarm's going off, but nobody's home at the big house.

[Robert Taylor]

We reached out to Denka for comment on the complaints and concerns that these residents have. They referred us to a statement made last week where they claimed, quote, no emergency can exist when the facility's emissions are at a historical low. And that the Trump administration's decision to drop the federal lawsuit against Danka marked a long overdue and appropriate end to a case lacking scientific and legal merit from the start. We're going to take a quick break.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

This season. Let your shoes do the talking. Designer Shoe Warehouse is packed with fresh styles that speak to your whole vibe without saying a word. From cool sneakers that look good with everything to easy sandals you'll want to wear on repeat, DSW has you covered. Find a shoe for everywho from the brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas, New Balance and more. Head to your DSW store or visit dsw.com today as President Donald Trump returns to the White House. Follow along as his agenda takes shape with the new MSNBC newsletter, Trump's first 100 days weekly expert insight on key issues sent straight to your inbox. Sign [e-mail] TRUMP100, MSNBC presents a new original podcast hosted by Jen Psaki. Each week she and her guests explore how the Democratic Party is facing this political moment and where it's headed next.

[Alex Wagner]

There's probably both messaging and policy issues.

[Community Activist]

But as you look to kind of.

[Shamyra Levine Davy]

Where the Democratic Party is, do you.

[Alex Wagner]

Think it's more a messaging issue, more a policy issue?

[Heather McTeer Toney]

The Blueprint with Jen Psaki subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad, free listening and bonus content.

[Robert Taylor]

Our next guest has a deep understanding about how the EPA works and what the Trump administration's drastic reversal on environmental policy might mean for communities around the country beyond even cancer alley. Heather McTeer Toney served as the regional administrator for the EPA's Southeast region. Based in Atlanta, she was appointed by President Obama in 2014. She's also the author of before the Streetlights Come Black America's Urgent Call for Climate Solutions, and she is currently the executive director of Bloomberg Philanthropies Beyond Petrochemicals Campaign. I am so appreciative of your time and thank you for doing this. I don't know if you know, but right before we got on this podcast recording, there's news breaking that the EPA under Lee zeldin is announcing 31 historic actions in the greatest and, quote, most consequential day of deregulation in US History. This is on top of the news in the last 24 hours that they're basically shuttering the Environmental Justice Division of the epa. And then, of course, on the heels of the news we got last week, that the Trump administration is going to drop this lawsuit that began under the Biden administration to really focus on polluters in and around Cancer Alley. So first, let's just give me your thoughts on where we sit today as a country when it comes to protecting some of the most vulnerable communities from deadly toxins.

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah, Alex, I took a look at that list of 31 actions, and the first thing that came to mind for me is, wow, we are really debating whether or not we should have clean water, clean air, and clean land in this country, and that's just for humanity, for American citizens, period. That's what's on the table. Just the question of whether or not we should have it and have access to it is, I think, the breadth and scope of attack on environmental protections today. That's where we are. So we are now far past what are the considerations of just poor and vulnerable populations. This is all Americans.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah.

[Alex Wagner]

And it should cause us all extreme concern.

[Robert Taylor]

You know, I was in Cancer Alley. I was in the St. John's and St. James parishes and talking to people who have been. Who've seen entire. Their entire family die of cancer or rare, rare diseases. The fact that these plants are on former plantations isn't a coincidence.

[Alex Wagner]

It is not a coincidence at all. So the lands that the plants overlap, and you're right, it's acre by acre. It is the exact footprint of plantations that enslave family members of people who are living there today, worked on. So the history of not only oppression and redlining and health and safety are far beyond just the past five to ten years. This is legacy, and it's legacy pollution, and it's also legacy environmental land pollution. Because the impact, the ecological impact to these spaces is something else that must be accounted for. So the same spaces that people hunt on and fish on and that they want to go and enjoy the things that make the communities and lands who they are. That's so far beyond just dei. It cannot be reduced to three letters when it is an embracing of culture, of community, of the lands that all of us enjoy but are now being put at risk for policy that is deeply dangerous and impactful.

[Robert Taylor]

This isn't just a story about Danka and dupont. This is also a story about what happens in the future with these big industries, right?

[Alex Wagner]

So think of it like this. You know, deregulating emissions and deregulating the industry and letting corporations go unchecked. It's like getting rid of breathalyzers for drunk drivers.

[Robert Taylor]

Right?

[Alex Wagner]

So imagine if the government decided that police no longer needed to use breathalyzers and they should just take a driver's word for whether they're drunk or not. It sounds ridiculous, right? I think our society does not like drunk drivers. But that's exactly what's happening when we're deregulating so much of the environmental community, environmental policy. We're just trusting now corporations to say they aren't polluting instead of actually checking them. So now let's take that a step further. Imagine if the police only gave breathalyzer tests to people who drive older Cars, but if you have a luxury car, you go by without a check. That's what happens when emissions go unchecked and pollution enforcement is inconsistent. And the worst pollution always ends up on those who are least able to defend themselves and least able to have the money. And so that's what we're talking about. You know, getting rid of these emissions regulations. It means, means that corporations can pollute without oversight. And it's just like letting a drunk driver on the road without testing. And in both cases, the people who are paying the price are the people who don't have any control over the damage that's being done. And I think we have to think about it in this same way, right? We have to recognize what are going to be the societal impacts in the future if we allow this to go unchecked and unabated. It is just as dangerous as saying it's okay we're gonna let drunk drivers on the road with our teenagers, that it's perfectly okay and fine in the.

[Robert Taylor]

Cars we're driving with our children, right?

[Alex Wagner]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Robert Taylor]

Everyone's affected, everyone on the road, just like everyone in the country is gonna be affected by this.

[Alex Wagner]

Everybody is affected.

[Robert Taylor]

I gotta ask because part of the way the Trump administration seems to have gotten away with this and Republicans more broadly, is by debunking the science, whether it's calling climate change a hoax or denying that these cancer rates are what they are and that the emissions are what they are. I know you've been in kind of measuring in a really data focused way the impact of this pollution. How challenging do you think it is right now to actually get the real numbers out there, to actually get the real science mainstreamed?

[Alex Wagner]

The key word in that sentence is real. And it comes to what people believe and how we're able to show and model that to them. At Beyond Petrochemicals, we've worked with our partners at Johns Hopkins University who've been monitoring pollution levels across cancer alleys since 2022. And they continue to observe levels are still not sufficient to sufficiently protect health. And even before the Danka lawsuit, even before 2023, this is not the first time that there have been concerns at that particular facility, nor was this first action, the first take of trying to reduce these emissions. So the monitoring, the awareness of what has been going on there has taken place for years. It begs the question of why are we not believing what we see, what we hear, what people know? You don't need science to tell you and confirm that people have died. We can look in the Cemeteries and we can see at the funerals. And we understand with the number of people who are coming through health clinics. So this is not hard. What has happened is it has been siloed and kept as a. Oh, that's just a Louisiana problem. That's just those poor people over there by the river. That won't ever hit me. When reality is it's not only hitting us, it's hitting people in their pockets. It is increasing healthcare costs and allowing it to continue to be unabated throughout corporations in this country means eventually it does get to your doorstep.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah, it does.

[Alex Wagner]

And it does impact you. That's the reality. I think that we have to impress upon people that this is not just a problem that is impacting poor black and brown people in the South. It impacts all of us. And historically, these are communities that have been hit first and worst. If we acknowledge that, then we're able to start and continue to improve for all of us in this country and really in the world.

[Robert Taylor]

Let me just say, though, I mean, just the moral stain of doing nothing even before it reaches your immediate doorstep is real. And I want to. I want to close by asking you. You know, you have an extraordinary resume. One of the things you've done in addition to serving in the EPA and doing the Bloomberg work is you were the first, I think, female mayor of Greenville, Mississippi, the youngest mayor. And, you know, the south, right? You understand the way of life down South. I mean, it is like a really a specifically regional life, the South. And I say that as someone that has deep admiration for a lot of parts of Southern culture. When I went and visited these folks in Reserve in St. James and St. John's Parish, I was so struck by the fact that they refused to give up on this land. Right? There are so many people that would have packed up and been like, wherever I'm going, I'm going. They believe in this land. Though their blood is in the soil and their ancestors in the ground, this is their home. And part of me is, like, deeply saddened by what is happening to them in the present. But also part of me is like, man, this community has lived through slavery and Jim Crow, and now they're up against the petrochemical industry in the time of the Trump administration. But, like, don't count them out, right? They will have their homecoming. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that deep, deep, deep connection between the people and their land and whether you're betting on them like I am.

[Alex Wagner]

Oh, it gives me chills because the energy and electricity. And the faith of people in the south speaks to the resiliency of why we are here today. Because it's so much not about just one of us. It is about an entire community. And I come from a space of faith, a family of faith. And when I'm there, it always resonates with me how deeply ingrained survival, resilience and compassion for all of humanity is seated in the South. It is seated in the place that says, if nobody else is gonna make it, even if I don't make it out, I hope that you make it.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah.

[Alex Wagner]

And that is a attitude of gratefulness and of hope that it will take to solve the climate crisis. We often think of the climate crisis as something so big and it's so beyond any of us that there's nothing we can do that could solve the problems as they are described. But it's different in the Southeast. It's different with people who have been through struggle and who have been through tough times, because people in the Southeast, and particularly the area of south Louisiana, have lived through, and they are the embodiment of what it means to survival. Whether you are black, white, Creole, if you are a visitor, if you are a family member or friend, then you too have value. And recognizing that, to me, gives hope for why this work is so important and why, even in the midst of insurmountable odds, you have folks like Mr. Taylor and his daughter and Ms. Sharon Levine and her daughter and her daughter, right. Shamira and Shamel, and families who say, no, this is home. This is us. This is who we are. And if we don't stand up for what's happening, then my God, what happens to the rest of the world, I'm grateful for people like that.

[Robert Taylor]

Heather McTeer Toney mentions Sharon Levine and her daughter, Shamira Levine Davy, both prominent environmental activists in Cancer Alley. Shamyra was actually at the church gathering in reserve that we heard tape from earlier in this show. At the end of that event, Shamyra asked if she could show us one last place in Cancer Alley. So we followed her the roughly 30 miles up the Mississippi river to the St. James Cemetery. This tree is incredible.

[Community Activist]

This tree.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah, this is very Gothic. The cemetery sits on the banks of the river, and not surprisingly, it also sits across the street and in the shadow of a refinery. Do you think that there are people buried here who died of ailments relating to the petrochemical industry?

[Community Activist]

Absolutely. Absolutely. We just buried three community members who died of cancer last month in the same week. All matriarchs of Their family? Yeah, all of them. And one of the ladies lived next to one of the facilities. Right. She lived on a fence line of Coke methanol.

[Robert Taylor]

Wow.

[Community Activist]

I come here and I feel that we have to fight for everyone that's here and I just hope that they're proud that we're fighting for our community and our town. You know, they were alive when the first industry came in, in the 60s. It's just the 60s, so.

[Robert Taylor]

Right.

[Community Activist]

This fight is so much longer, has.

[Robert Taylor]

A longer, deeper history than that.

[Community Activist]

Exactly. If our ancestors can make it through 400 years, then we can make it through the next four.

[Robert Taylor]

That's, I think, why people feel like this fight can be won. Right?

[Alex Wagner]

Yeah, because.

[Robert Taylor]

Because there's history, there's ancestry here that's so much longer and deeper than whatever the petrochemical industry has decided is the future of this place.

[Community Activist]

That's right. So they thought it was a good thing when they came. They said, we're going to bring jobs in, so they thought it was okay. But here we are now, cancer ridden, overburdened. Now they want us to leave.

[Robert Taylor]

Right.

[Community Activist]

This is our family. This is all we ever know. People don't take move in here. You usually live here because your grandparents lived here and their grandparents lived here. It's a lineage here. And so I can't turn my back on this community. This is.

[Robert Taylor]

This is your people.

[Community Activist]

This is my people.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks for listening to Trumpland with Alex Wagner. I'll be on vacation next week. Fancy that. So you won't catch us in your feeds on the 20th, but we will see you the following week for a brand new episode. But before I let you go, I have a favor to ask. If you've been enjoying the show and you want to make sure others can too, please rate and review us your reviews, help other people find our work. And as always, you can get this show and other MSNBC podcasts ad free by subscribing to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Trumpland with Alex Wagner is produced by Max Jacobs along with Julia D'Angelo and Kay Guerrero. Our associate producer is Jamaris Perez. Additional production support comes from Hannah Holland. Our crew included Bill Hennessy on audio and Liam Lee and Andrew Dunn on camera. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory and Katie Lau. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production, Matthew Alexander is the executive producer of Alex Wagner Tonight, and Aisha Turner is the executive producer of MSNBC Audio. And I'm your host, Alex Wagner. We'll see you again on Thursday, March 27.

[Heather McTeer Toney]

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[Alex Wagner]

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